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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Fear in New York?
2006-08-20 08:52
by Jon Weisman

The New York Mets are a lock for the playoffs, while the Dodgers have a mess of games to worry about before they get in, but that hasn't stopped Joel Sherman of the the New York Post from looking west:

The biggest threat to the Mets has the fewest homers in the NL, a 2006 dossier that includes 13 losses in 14 games to begin the second half and a manager best known as an October fool.

And, oh yeah, the Dodgers are not just a threat to the Mets in 2006. They are a threat to what the Mets could so recently envision being an era when they would dominate the National League. Los Angeles has the dynamic duo of financial resources and, perhaps, the majors' best young talent base.

"The Dodgers are a big-market team with a $100 million-plus payroll and they have better young players than the Mets have," said an NL GM. "Now [on] the Mets' left side of the infield [Jose Reyes and David Wright] are two of the best players in the game. But the Mets don't have depth in pitching and the pitching is old. But they do have the wherewithal to sign pitching every year."

In 2006, at the least, the Mets were cruising along under the belief that they were far superior to the rest of the NL competition. But as our NL GM said, "The Dodgers might have a better team than the Mets, right now."

Hey, it's an honor just to be noticed. But even if one were to dismiss this as worrying for the sake of worrying, there is still more nervousness coming out of the east.

With Pedro Martinez already on the 15-day disabled list with a strained right calf, fellow Mets starting pitcher Tom Glavine has come down with something potentially more serious, according to Adam Rubin of the New York Daily News.

Tom Glavine's health and his season are in jeopardy, a potentially crushing blow to the pitcher as well as to the Mets' World Series ambitions, the Daily News has learned. Sources said the southpaw has experienced coldness in a finger on his pitching hand, and that the cause of the alarming condition isn't yet known.

The 287-game winner is scheduled for a CT scan tomorrow, while an angiogram is planned for Wednesday.

Doctors are unsure whether the problem is related to a blood clot or possibly a "knot" in an artery near his left shoulder. Depending on the diagnosis, Glavine could miss little time or the rest of the season. The "knot" could require invasive surgery, while a clot might be able to be dissolved and limit the time lost. ...

Minus Martinez and Glavine, the Mets would be left with a rotation headed by Steve Trachsel, Orlando Hernandez and John Maine. Brian Bannister and Oliver Perez are available at Triple-A Norfolk, while 2005 first-round pick Mike Pelfrey is nursing a strained lat (back) muscle.

Fortunately for the Mets, they have enough of a cushion in the National League East to have until October to get their pitching staff back in order, whereas the Dodgers are still trying to ensure their plus-.500 status.

* * *

Baddest play of the year? It came after Greg Maddux's leadoff double in the second inning Saturday.

Bad decision: Having speedy, hot-hitting Rafael Furcal try to bunt the slow boat to China Basin, i.e. Maddux to third base.

Bad jump: Maddux was practically still in neutral when the ball was being bunted.

Bad bunt: Furcal bunted right to Giants pitcher Brad Hennessey.

Bad coverage: Pedro Feliz was playing in, anticipating the bunt, and shortstop Omar Vizquel was trailing Maddux, so Hennessey had no one at third base to throw to.

Bad throw: Hennessey then turned and threw the ball wide of first base and into right-field foul territory.

Bad block: With Maddux having scored and Furcal streaking toward third, Feliz couldn't block the one-hop throw from second baseman Ray Durham (who got the error).

Bad backup: Not really, but it certainly wasn't great. Hennessey got to the ball and threw home, but Furcal scored without incident.

Maddux, who added a sacrifice fly when he batted again in the inning, had a batting line of 1 1 1 1 and a 10-run lead before he faced Barry Bonds for the first time in the game.

* * *

Bonds, his back ailing, is not expected to play today.

Today's Game

Comments (504)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-20 09:03:47
1.   thinkingblue
What? The west coast exists?

So how will this affect the yankees and red sox?

ESPN, the Eastern Propaganda Sports Network.

2006-08-20 09:05:52
2.   Eric Enders
Great analysis of the Maddux play, Jon.
2006-08-20 09:06:53
3.   Eric Enders
Reposting this to continue the Dodgers HOF discussion from the now-defunct thread...

340 I disagree. Guys like Hoyt Wilhelm, Frank Robinson, and Casey Stengel wouldn't make it. Heck, even some guys who are in the HOF and were primarily Dodgers probably wouldn't make it. I don't think there's a Burleigh Grimes Marching and Chowder Society out there.

Team Halls of Fame like this are strange because the criteria include both actual ballplaying credentials and how beloved you were by the fans. Maury Wills, for example, objectively is probably not even the 50th best Dodger ever, but his popularity with the fans was such that he'd be among the first inductees into a Dodger Hall of Fame. Same goes for Fernando, for that matter.

In approximate order of preference, here are my top 20 candidates for an L.A. Dodgers Hall of Fame (giving some weight to excellence and some to karma). I kept it to L.A. guys because, realistically, I think your average Dodger fan (and your current team owner) really don't care one whit about the Brooklyn days.

W. Davis
T. Davis
R. Martinez

Obviously room would also have to be made for Alston and [holds nose] Lasorda. And Vinny should have a plaque five times as big as all the others.

Other guys I'd consider are Nomo, Karros, Baker, Osteen, R Smith, Mondesi, Podres, Sax, Green, Russell, and a persional favorite, Dave Hansen.

2006-08-20 09:13:39
4.   das411
1 - You mean you can't see the weeks and weeks of "Pedro vs DLowe, NLCS Game 1" commercials already?
2006-08-20 09:15:38
5.   Bob Timmermann
I think a Dodgers Hall of Fame would have Brooklyn players, but they would all be from "The Roger Kahn Era."

I doubt Zack Wheat and Dazzy Vance register with anyone.

You would have to include Broolkyn players to give Jackie Robinson a spot. If he were left out, the PR hit would be enormous.

2006-08-20 09:17:35
6.   natepurcell
lets go dodgers!!! clap clap
2006-08-20 09:24:52
7.   Eric Stephen
Grady has come out today and said the Dodgers would ride Penny, Lowe & Maddux as often as possible, pitching them as close to their regular rotation (calendar-based; not game-based) as possible.

However, there are 39 games left and unless one of the "Big 3" pitches on 3-days rest at least once, it seems like each of these pitchers will get 8 starts each. This leaves 15 starts for Billingsley & Hendrickson.

I wonder if this was just lip service by Little, trying to inject a bit of an ego boost into his 3 "horses".

Assuming no 3-day-rest starts:

8/20 - Lowe
8/21 - Billingsley
8/22 - HendrickSele
8/23 - Penny
8/24 - OFF
8/25 - Maddux
8/26 - Lowe
8/27 - Billingsley
8/28 - Penny
8/29 - HendrickSele
8/30 - Maddux
8/31 - OFF
9/1 - Lowe
9/2 - Penny
9/3 - Billingsley
9/4 - Maddux
9/5 - HendrickSele
9/6 - Lowe
9/7 - Penny
9/8 - Billingsley
9/9 - Maddux
9/10 - HendrickSele
9/11 - OFF
9/12 - Lowe
9/13 - Penny
9/14 - Maddux
9/15 - Billingsley
9/16 - HendrickSele
9/17 - Lowe
9/18 - Penny
9/19 - Maddux
9/20 - Billingsley
9/21 - HendrickSele
9/22 - Lowe
9/23 - Penny
9/24 - Maddux
9/25 - OFF
9/26 - Billingsley
9/27 - Lowe
9/28 - Penny
9/29 - Maddux
9/30 - HendrickSele
9/31 - Billingsley

2006-08-20 09:56:34
8.   Disabled List
3 When i said that all the Dodgers' Cooperstown guys would be in, I was referring to the ones who went in as Dodgers. So essentially: Koufax, Drysdale, Robinson, Reese, Snider, Campanella, Sutton, Alston, & Lasorda. Guys like Frank Robinson and [ugh] Juan Marichal would have no place in a Dodgers Hall of Fame.

And yeah, it's up to the owner, but I think the old-era players like Wheat, Vance, and Grimes would get recognized. I've been to the Dodger Dugout Club (only once), and I remember seeing a big picture of Zach Wheat hanging on the wall. It was right next to the picture of Babe Ruth during his one season in a Dodger uniform.

All the guys on that list are great, and I would include most of the ones on your follow-up list too. Reggie Smith, Shawn Green, and Raul Mondesi might be reaches. How about Larry Sherry? Steve Yeager? Tommy John? Manny Mota? Pedro Guerrero?

My personal fave would be Kenny Landreaux.

2006-08-20 10:04:06
9.   Eric Enders
8 Guerrero is #9 on my list. But Manny Mota is certainly an obvious one that I missed.

Sherry and Yeager had careers that weren't that great, but I guess winning World Series MVP makes up for that.

2006-08-20 10:05:30
10.   Eric Enders
This will bother Bob a great deal, but for some reason whenever I think of Larry Sherry I think of him as the Matt Herges of the late '50s-early '60s.
2006-08-20 10:14:46
11.   Disabled List
9 Oh, I thought you were referring to Wilton Guerrero. My bad. ;)

Brett Butler might be another fringe candidate. Paul Lo Duca? Mike Marshall? (Both versions, even.) Charlie Hough? Bob Welch? {gasp} Rick Monday???

2006-08-20 10:19:51
12.   Bob Timmermann

In quality of pitching or was Larry Sherry naive enough to serve as a replacement player and then also act hurt and surprised when he got traded?

2006-08-20 10:22:42
13.   Eric Enders
12 Quality of pitching was what I had in mind.

An outstanding rookie season followed by a sophomore campaign that was much worse, but still good. Followed by by much mediocrity and subsequent exile to crappy teams.

2006-08-20 10:35:09
14.   Dark Horse
Someone in the previous thread mentioned LaRoche was hurt last night. Anybody know more about this?
2006-08-20 10:40:28
15.   Shmueli4
Sorry, I was away all weekend, so if s/o else mentioned this, pardon me...B4 Maddux gave up a 3rd inning single, he had retired 32 batters in a row - 22 from Sunday (bonds out in the first and the next 7 innings) and the first 10 on Saturday - not bad for a 40 year old pitcher never to throw a no-hitter, no less, a perfect game!
2006-08-20 10:41:59
16.   Eric Enders
14 From this morning's Las Vegas Review-Journal. Since he played five more innings, I'm guessing it isn't too serious.

"The 51s loaded the bases with one out in the second, but Bohn threw Andy LaRoche out at the plate to complete a double play on Eric Langill's fly ball to center.

LaRoche left the game in the seventh with an injured neck and shoulder. He was replaced by James Loney."

2006-08-20 11:06:58
17.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know if this was mentioned either last night about Maddux, but his 32 consecutive batters retired was not a Dodgers record.

As you might expect, Sandy Koufax has that record. He retired the last 6 batters against Houston on 9/5/1965, then 27 in a row on 9/9/65 against Chicago and then the first batter on 9/14/65 at Chicago before Glenn Beckert doubled. 35 straight.

Or at least I think that's the record. I didn't check relievers.

The major league record is 41.

2006-08-20 11:09:16
18.   D4P
27 in a row on 9/9/65 against Chicago

Very interesting...

2006-08-20 11:10:35
19.   Bob Timmermann
Whoops, Derek Lowe retired 37 in a row last year.
The last 26 in Chicago on 8/31/2005 and then the first 11 Giants on 9/5/2005 when JT Snow singled.
2006-08-20 11:11:45
20.   Bob Timmermann
Never mind... again...
Forgot that Lowe had two walks in the Chicago game.
2006-08-20 11:26:33
21.   overkill94
20 You know Bob, you can only cry wolf so many times
2006-08-20 11:26:59
22.   thinkingblue
Anyone watching the lttle league game with Georgia and Arizona I think.

Nate, should we start the countdown to Kyle Carter being a first round pick in 2011 or 2012 barring injury? I mean, I've seen him reach 80 MPH already, and he's only what, 12?

2006-08-20 11:30:13
23.   Bob Timmermann

I'm deeply sorry.

Anybody want to guess who the pitcher (who was not a Dodger) who retired 41 straight batters?

2006-08-20 11:30:34
24.   Eric Enders
Koufax also retired 27 in a row during his 1964 no-hitter and the following game.

R Martinez retired 25 in a row in 1995.

That's about the best I can come up with.

2006-08-20 11:34:59
25.   Eric Enders
23 There are only so many choices... I'll guess John Lee Richmond, the pride of Brown U.
2006-08-20 11:35:35
26.   popup
The Glavine injury sounds alarmingly similiar to Sandy's injury in 1962.

LaRoche was thrown out at the plate last night and continued to play. He took a very wild swing at a pitch before he was replaced in mid at bat by Loney. The way he was reacting I figured he had hurt his back on the swing. I watched him walking off the field to the clubhouse and he seemed to be moving ok.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-08-20 11:35:58
27.   Bob Timmermann
The 41 straight came at the end of one game and the beginning of another.
2006-08-20 11:36:48
28.   Eric Enders
OK... Mike Mussina?
2006-08-20 11:38:28
29.   overkill94
23 If it happens a couple more times, I'm gonna have to start doing the research myself...

Okay, I'll just stick with taking whatever you say at face value.

2006-08-20 11:39:28
30.   overkill94
It's still very early, but the Toronto-Baltimore game is extremely interesting so far
2006-08-20 11:40:01
31.   Greg Brock
27 If we looked it up, are we cheaters?

I'm guessing we're cheaters.

2006-08-20 11:40:47
32.   Bob Timmermann
It was Jim Barr

August 23 and 29, 1972 for the Giants. The bookends were a walk to Bob Moose of the Pirates and double to Bernie Carbo of the Cardinals.

21 in one game and 20 in the next.

2006-08-20 11:44:19
33.   D4P
Which, interestingly enough, is where the phrase "Barr none" comes from
2006-08-20 11:45:07
34.   DXMachina
I was just coming to say Jim Barr, because that's what it said in post 270 of the last night's thread.
2006-08-20 11:48:19
35.   Bob Timmermann
The AL record is 33 held by Steve Busby and John Montague.

Montague's 33 in a row were all in relief, including a stint where he threw 6 2/3 perfect innings. That was back when relievers were real men!

2006-08-20 11:51:38
36.   Bob Timmermann
The weird thing about Montague's mark was that he was pitching for an expansion team, the 1977 Mariners, and he was for the most part, the mopup man.
2006-08-20 11:55:21
37.   StolenMonkey86
I would hold the all-time Dodgers HOF to performance based on Dodger careers.

So no Rickey Henderson, even though I saw him hit a leadoff homer in Dodger Stadium.

2006-08-20 12:03:01
38.   Paul Scott
32 BP did an article on secret or hidden or something like that "perfect games" a year or two ago. I couldn't remember who tossed the 41 innings, but I remember them singling out Gange as a "surprise" pitcher that didn't have one (27 consecutive outs in any combination of games).

There were a ton of Dodgers on the short list of pitchers they listed - including, IIRC, Hershiser, John, Sutton and Nomo - amoung several I think I am leaving out.

There were almost no closers, but for some reason I thnk Wetteland might have been one of the few that did it.

2006-08-20 12:03:30
39.   Greg Brock
Best records in NL vs. own division.


It was just too amazing not to share with the rest of the class.

2006-08-20 12:06:43
40.   Bob Timmermann
The Cubs have played very well against the Cardinals this year.

Today is not one of those days.

2006-08-20 12:09:51
41.   Linkmeister
I was gonna suggest Claude Osteen for a Dodgers HOF, because he seemed like such a good 3rd starter on the mid-1960s teams, but on looking him up he was a .500 pitcher for his career. Huh. My memory's poorer than I thought.
2006-08-20 12:12:37
42.   Greg Brock
41 Same problem with Johnny Podres. I thought his numbers were better than they are.
2006-08-20 12:12:38
43.   Bob Timmermann
Osteen's W-L record suffers from playing for the 1967-68 teams.
2006-08-20 12:13:29
44.   Bob Timmermann
Boo! Brandon Fahey! Boo!
2006-08-20 12:14:31
45.   Linkmeister
44 Huh? What did he do?
2006-08-20 12:16:20
46.   popup
Link, he broke up a number nine.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-08-20 12:16:41
47.   Bob Timmermann
So who are the Giants honoring before today's game?

Jim Brower?
Kelly Downs?
Mike LaCoss?
Pat Rapp?

2006-08-20 12:19:53
48.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Baltimore has now taken over the title of "the city where baseball players go to die." The Orioles seem so irrelevant now. Of the five teams in the AL East, four of them have something compelling about them. Even the Devil Rays poor play is highlighted by players like Kazmir and Crawford.

Then there are the Orioles. If they disappeared, no one would miss them.

2006-08-20 12:20:03
49.   Paul Scott

Now I see why Wetteland's stuck out - it happened over the span of two seasons.

2006-08-20 12:20:39
50.   Eric Enders
38 If Nomo was on the list, I think it would have to be consecutive batters without a hit, rather than consecutive batters retired.

Even during his no-hitters Nomo walked enough guys that he couldn't retire that many batters in a row.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-20 12:21:44
51.   popup
Bob, they should honor Jim Barr.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-08-20 12:22:13
52.   Eric Enders
48 I believe Baltimore has now taken over the title of "the city where baseball players go to die."

And morbid poets with rabies.

2006-08-20 12:23:57
53.   Paul Scott
50 Nomo is on the list, though the links n the article are now bad (but I think they just linked to the player's DT Card anyway. The article is all about "hidden perfect games," so I don't think Nomo would be there if he had a walk in his run.
2006-08-20 12:24:38
54.   Linkmeister
46 Thanks. I musta missed the reference to the Toronto-Baltimore game.
2006-08-20 12:25:41
55.   popup
How many consecutive batters did Johnny Vandemer face without giving up a hit?

I would think Harvey Haddix got close to record for consecutive batters faced without letting anyone get on base.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-08-20 12:28:58
56.   Eric Enders
55 Haddix retired 38 in a row: 2 in one game and 36 in the next.
2006-08-20 12:32:04
57.   popup
Thanks Eric. I am off to see Vegas play at Tacoma. Hope LaRoche is healthy enough to play.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-08-20 12:36:00
58.   Eric Enders
53 Nomo never retired more than 12 consecutive batters in his no-hitters and the games surrounding them.
2006-08-20 12:36:23
59.   Bob Timmermann
On the Reds broadcast Chris Welch just said:

"The Reds have been kind of snakebit with the relievers they picked up."

There are so many punchlines after that...

2006-08-20 12:48:09
60.   Linkmeister
59 "Snakes on a Mound!"
2006-08-20 12:49:46
61.   Bob Timmermann
I thought the relievers had already been bitten by snakes when they arrived.
2006-08-20 12:54:22
62.   Greg S
Paul LoDuca on with Tim McCarver right now.
I expect the hard hitting questions like... "is winning better than losing?" and "Do you enjoy catching Pedro Martinez?"
2006-08-20 12:55:15
63.   Linkmeister
Since Hawai'i has no snakes (knock wood), those of us here who've seen the movie or heard of the concept are having a good laugh at it. Where did he get those snakes?

(For those who don't know, the flight originates in Honolulu.)

2006-08-20 12:57:10
64.   twerp
59 Could we interest the Reds in Lance Carter?

Say straight up for Dunn?

They pretty much gave Kearns away; maybe they're still in the mood...

2006-08-20 12:57:22
65.   Eric Enders
"Since Hawai'i has no snakes"

Surely people have pet snakes, no?

2006-08-20 13:00:15
66.   twerp
Last 3 starts for a Tampa Bay pitcher...

20.2 IP, 1.31 ERA


No, Seo. Go figure.

2006-08-20 13:00:36
67.   Greg S
LoDuca: "Perhas it was a blessing in disguise that I didn't come up to the big leagues until I was a little older and better able to handle all the things that go with it".

Wow. Guess it was taped.

2006-08-20 13:00:46
68.   StolenMonkey86
64- maybe we should try Hamulack since he has less major league service time and he's left handed.
2006-08-20 13:03:38
69.   808Bears
Snakes are illegal in Hawaii. They would be disaterous for the native wildlife, so the state works hard to keep them out. Hence the elaborate agricultre form that they make you fill out when you fly over there. The isolation of the islands makes it possible to attempt something like this.
2006-08-20 13:05:00
70.   Linkmeister
65 Absolutely not. There are no indigenous ones, and there's a deathly fear of snakes getting loose here and decimating the bird population, so owning a pet snake is prohibited.

When you have a little free time, look up "brown tree snake Guam" at Google; you'll be horrified.

2006-08-20 13:05:10
71.   Greg S
Chickens- plenty.
2006-08-20 13:06:16
72.   Linkmeister
Oh, yuck. I'm stuck with Kuiper, Krukow, Papa and Fleming for my Dodgers broadcast today.
2006-08-20 13:07:52
73.   King of the Hobos
The Tigers just acquired Neifi!, and the worst part is they gave the Cubs something resembling a prospect (Chris Robinson, a 22 year old catcher in A+ ball who does not have the greatest stats, but is still far too much for Neifi!).
2006-08-20 13:11:04
74.   bhsportsguy
That was more surprising than Tiger's three birdies in the first 6 holes.
2006-08-20 13:11:16
75.   Bluebleeder87
Drew hits it out. 2-0 Dodgers
2006-08-20 13:11:49
76.   Bob Timmermann
Griddle'd! Thanks!
2006-08-20 13:12:23
77.   bhsportsguy
75 See 74
2006-08-20 13:12:46
78.   Bluebleeder87
another nice start to a game from the Dodgers, let's hope Lowe does his part
2006-08-20 13:12:53
79.   Bob Timmermann
Was that a splash home run for Drew? I couldn't tell from the replay.
2006-08-20 13:12:54
80.   twerp
Speaking of snakes===

A bit of a recomment from another thread, but maybe good for a few laughs...

RE recent story about Kevin Brown pulling a gun on his neighbor (who supposedly threw grass clippings into his yard)....

KB reportedly said he kept the gun to shoot snakes.

Why do I have visions of Dick Cheney inviting Kevin Brown to go snake hunting?

2006-08-20 13:13:00
81.   fanerman
Drew didn't look like he had a mystery injury right there.
2006-08-20 13:14:24
82.   Bob Timmermann
Everyone knows there are no snakes in Hawai'i because St. Patrick took a vacation there once. He had a timeshare in Maui.
2006-08-20 13:19:33
83.   StolenMonkey86
11 pitches, 1-2-3
2006-08-20 13:20:32
84.   Greg S
From the replay you couldn't tell if it landed in the water or bounced in, but it was wet by the time it stopped.
2006-08-20 13:21:29
85.   bhsportsguy
This one of those days I wish I had picture in picture, but when it comes to watching Tiger have a chance to win a major, that will be on the majority of the time.
2006-08-20 13:22:34
86.   Greg S
I'm hoping that within about an hour, there will be no reason to watch either and I can actually leave the house.
2006-08-20 13:25:30
87.   bhsportsguy
86 - My bet is on Tiger clinching before the Dodgers.
2006-08-20 13:25:35
88.   Eric Enders
Ah, hell. Got caught up doing work and forgot that the game started. Also forgot to tivo it, so I missed Drew's homer, and with my luck that will probably be the only scoring in the game.

Not that I'd complain about that.

2006-08-20 13:25:37
89.   Blu2
7 It was most thoughtful of you to alter the calendar (Giving September an extra day) just to get Billingsly an extra start. I'm sure he will appreciate it as will the rest of the players, having an extra game to pad their stats. The team may even need the win...
2006-08-20 13:25:42
90.   Bob Timmermann
For me, picture in picture is a good way to ensure that you make it impossible to watch either program.
2006-08-20 13:27:12
91.   Bluebleeder87
wow that pitch to Lowe looked border line
2006-08-20 13:28:28
92.   StolenMonkey86
D-Lowe wants to jack up the other guy's pitch count early
2006-08-20 13:28:30
93.   Bluebleeder87
no matter what happens Lowe is making the giants pitcher throw alot of balls
2006-08-20 13:28:54
94.   Bluebleeder87
Lowe get's a hit (even better)
2006-08-20 13:29:26
95.   Greg S
Not to worry.

Any thought that begins with "my bet is on Tiger" is probably a wise one.

2006-08-20 13:29:30
96.   StolenMonkey86
that's a great at-bat
2006-08-20 13:30:55
97.   Eric Enders
80 "KB reportedly said he kept the gun to shoot snakes."

Hey, I can believe it. I've shot a snake before.

Actually, come to think of it, that rattlesnake is the only living thing I've ever shot. I was 12 years old camping out in the desert, and at the time it seemed a choice between him or me.

2006-08-20 13:31:00
98.   Linkmeister
Turns out it's one of the K-boys and Lon Simmons.
2006-08-20 13:32:02
99.   Bob Timmermann

That snake was more afraid of you than you were of it!

OK, maybe it wasn't.

2006-08-20 13:33:23
100.   fanerman
97 - I would have made the same choice.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-08-20 13:34:08
101.   Bob Timmermann
I think Krukow is on vacation. I did see him last Saturday at the Gordon Biersch in Pasadena. Maybe he just stayed down in Southern California.
2006-08-20 13:34:40
102.   Disabled List
I saw "Snakes on a Plane" last night. The issue of how the snakes got on the plane in Honolulu, given the supposed dearth of snakes in Hawaii, is actually a key plot point in the movie. And I'm using the term "key plot point" very liberally here, since there really is not much of a plot.

The movie actually wasn't that bad. Much more entertaining than I thought it was gonna be. I saw it with a good crowd, which really makes all the difference.

2006-08-20 13:35:07
103.   Bob Timmermann
I would have found the rattlesnake's mate and held it hostage and attempted negoations.
2006-08-20 13:35:26
104.   Icaros

Krukow and Kuiper are doing the TV broadcast I'm watching right now.

2006-08-20 13:35:54
105.   StolenMonkey86
I worked at a summer camp last year, and the head maitenence guy kept a 12-gauge in his pickup in case there was a snake. The radio code was "Code 6" for the snake.

One of the counselors in the archery area had a small snake in the grass, so he shot it point blank with an arrow.

2006-08-20 13:36:05
106.   Underbruin
63 - Where the snakes come from is addressed in the film. It makes little sense, and in the scope of things doesn't really matter. If you're going to see a movie involving snakes and planes (and possibly one on the other, though I won't say which) you probably shouldn't be overmuch worried about the origins of either critical component ("Where'd they get that jumbo jet?!" =P)
2006-08-20 13:36:08
107.   Bluebleeder87
Actually, come to think of it, that rattlesnake is the only living thing I've ever shot. I was 12 years old camping out in the desert, and at the time it seemed a choice between him or me.

at 12 yrs old i would have ran to mommy.

2006-08-20 13:38:36
108.   Bob Timmermann
The Cardinals beat the Cubs 5-3 to maintain their hold on the not-so-important #2 spot in the NL standings.

The Reds beat Pittsburgh and keep the checkered jersey for another day.

2006-08-20 13:41:16
109.   fanerman
The word I used to describe "Snakes on a Plane" is "satisfying." I didn't expect it to be good. In fact I wanted it to be bad. It was cheesey but pretty entertaining. And I left satisfied.
2006-08-20 13:41:18
110.   Disabled List
Krukow and Kuiper are so bad. They are just so, so, so bad.

Watching this, I miss Steve Lyons. And that's saying something.

2006-08-20 13:42:40
111.   Bob Timmermann
So, Krukow is no longer on vacation ...

I wonder if Krukow and Miller get discounts at Gordon Biersch?

2006-08-20 13:49:11
112.   King of the Hobos
Why does anyone throw pitches over the plate to Alfonzo? The guy refuses to walk, yet pitchers continue to throw pitches he can hit.
2006-08-20 13:49:38
113.   Linkmeister
From what I can tell, if you expect a "B" movie going in, you'll be quite happy with SoaP.

I'm tempted, and since the only movies I've seen in a theater in the past 20 years are the Potter ones and LoTR, that's sayin' somethin'.

2006-08-20 13:50:48
114.   Bluebleeder87
11 i've heard 'em there o.k. i guess, although i did hear they said some pretty nasty stuff about the dodgers in the past.
2006-08-20 13:52:52
115.   StolenMonkey86
14 pitches for Lowe, he gets the K and strands 2 runners in scoring position
2006-08-20 13:54:16
116.   Bob Timmermann
Krukow and Kuiper or the Giants radio team are not nearly as anti-Dodger as San Diego's Ted Leitner is.

Leitner just oozes hatred for the Dodgers from pore. He also oozes phoniness. Why the people of San Diego put up with him is amazing.

2006-08-20 13:56:14
117.   MollyKnight
I saw SAOP yesterday, and I, too, thoroughly enjoyed it. In fact, I laughed my butt off.
2006-08-20 13:56:18
118.   Disabled List
Giants TV trivia: Since 1958, who has the most wins and losses vs. the Giants?

I'm thinking Sutton.

2006-08-20 13:56:31
119.   mankatododger
116Leitner has hated LA forever. I have no idea why except that he must have applied for a job up there and not gotten it. Or maybe all his ex-wives live up there.
2006-08-20 13:56:37
120.   Bluebleeder87
i'm glad we got the giants pitcher early, he seems to have settled down in the last 2 innings.
2006-08-20 13:57:06
121.   Bob Timmermann
Hendrickson will face Peavy in San Diego! That is a matchup defines the phrase "fraught with peril."
2006-08-20 13:57:11
122.   StolenMonkey86
Martin becomes the first non shortstop to strike out
2006-08-20 14:01:04
123.   Disabled List

It was Don Drysdale.

2006-08-20 14:01:06
124.   Eric Enders
I guess I'm in the minority but I find Krukow and Kuiper to be (a) very good, and (b) not anti-Dodger in the least.

Krukow spent much of yesterday's game going on and on about how Russell Martin is god's gift to catching, will eventually have a shelf full of Gold Gloves, etc.

2006-08-20 14:01:14
125.   bluetahoe
Drew's home run was sweet. Actually what I liked more was the huge smile on his face in the dugout afterward.
2006-08-20 14:01:33
126.   Bluebleeder87
sit down Tod (k)
2006-08-20 14:02:09
127.   bluetahoe
124 He liked that still butt.
2006-08-20 14:02:36
128.   Eric Enders
121 "Hendrickson will face Peavy in San Diego! That is a matchup defines the phrase "fraught with peril." "

What makes it not nearly so perilous is that Hendrickson will be facing the San Diego offense and Peavy will be facing the Dodger offense.

2006-08-20 14:03:34
129.   fanerman
124 - I find Krukow and Kuiper to be pretty tolerable. I've never heard them be blatantly anti-Dodger. I mean, they're Giants broadcasters so you can't expect them to like the Dodgers. But they're fair. And they're not too annoying (except for the whole "meat" thing).
2006-08-20 14:03:55
130.   Bluebleeder87
Actually what I liked more was the huge smile on his face in the dugout afterward.

he hadn't hit a dinger for a long time.

2006-08-20 14:04:41
131.   thinkingblue
D-Lowe flashing the lumber ?
2006-08-20 14:04:54
132.   Bluebleeder87
Derek Lowe is becoming a national league type hitter.
2006-08-20 14:05:15
133.   StolenMonkey86
how about Lowe getting his average up to triple digits
2006-08-20 14:05:20
134.   bluetahoe


Blow it open again boys.

2006-08-20 14:05:41
135.   Disabled List
OT: Anyone think Mike Weir has a shot of catching Tiger? He's 3 strokes back through nine.

I'm a Weir fan. Saw him win the Nissan Open at Riviera once. Good guy.

2006-08-20 14:06:50
136.   bluetahoe
Oh my.
2006-08-20 14:06:52
137.   StolenMonkey86
30 SB for Furcal now

only 23 homers to go for a 30-30 year

2006-08-20 14:07:31
138.   D4P
Anyone think Mike Weir has a shot of catching Tiger?


2006-08-20 14:07:39
139.   Greg S
There would be absolutely no reason to believe so. Doesn't mean it won't happen but you certainly wouldn't want to bet your kids college tuition.
2006-08-20 14:07:51
140.   Bluebleeder87
Furcal falls asleep, he forgat Lowe was at 3rd or something? 2 down with Nomar at the bat.
2006-08-20 14:08:22
141.   thinkingblue
______it Furcal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2006-08-20 14:08:40
142.   bluetahoe
When you have a busted inning like that it is imperative you shut the opponent out next inning. It brings back the mojo you just lost.
2006-08-20 14:08:43
143.   Bob Timmermann
According to Retrosheet, Sutton had more wins against the SF Giants than Drysdale.

Sutton was 30-25 against the SF Giants.
Drysdale had 27 wins against SF I believe.

Unless they messed up their stats for "NY National League".

2006-08-20 14:09:19
144.   Jim Ignatowski

No, Tiger's not coming back to him.

Back on topic, wasn't that a bonehead play by Furcal.

2006-08-20 14:10:19
145.   StolenMonkey86
Furkle got doubled off of 2nd?
2006-08-20 14:10:38
146.   StolenMonkey86
what exactly did that look like?
2006-08-20 14:10:41
147.   Bob Timmermann
I would think Furcal would admit that he made a bonehead play.

It happens.

2006-08-20 14:10:48
148.   Marty
135 No. I like Weir too, but it won't happen today.
2006-08-20 14:11:05
149.   bluetahoe
Arizona takes a 1-0 in SD after 3.5 despite Shawn Green.

Carlos Quentin is benched for the 4th straight game. LOL...

2006-08-20 14:11:24
150.   D4P
I'm confused: what happened to Lowe in that inning...?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-08-20 14:11:27
151.   Disabled List
143 It was wins and losses. But they had Drysdale wtih 30 wins and 31 losses vs. the Giants.
2006-08-20 14:11:32
152.   StolenMonkey86
gameday took a second. The old 3-6. Good job.
2006-08-20 14:11:56
153.   Bob Timmermann
Hillenbrand and Lowe were teammates, Vin. I just wrote a 2001 RGC that featured both of them!
2006-08-20 14:12:45
154.   bluetahoe
146 Simple ground ball right at the 1st base bag. Hillenbrand steps on 1st and notices Furcal let a brain stinker and easily threw him out a 2nd.
2006-08-20 14:13:04
155.   Disabled List
LOL at all the Weir defeatism.

Yeah, I think Tiger pretty much has this locked up too.

2006-08-20 14:13:51
156.   bluetahoe
We got our mojo back.
2006-08-20 14:14:10
157.   Bluebleeder87

Mojo back on our side.

2006-08-20 14:14:18
158.   StolenMonkey86
59 pitches through 5

D-Lowe going strong

2006-08-20 14:15:10
159.   Bob Timmermann
Dysdale went 27-28 against the SF Giants. His other decisions came in his two years in Brooklyn.

And if you include those it's not 30-31 either.

2006-08-20 14:15:46
160.   Jim Ignatowski
tiger birdies 11 to go 19 under; five shot lead; this is over
2006-08-20 14:16:31
161.   Bob Timmermann
Drysdale was such a clutch pitcher. In the 1966 season, against the second place Giants, Drysdale went 0-4.
2006-08-20 14:17:14
162.   Bluebleeder87
I find it weird when a guy can throw right handed but bat left handed.
2006-08-20 14:18:09
163.   DXMachina
161 Didn't he usually pitch against Marichal?
2006-08-20 14:18:27
164.   Bob Timmermann
What's really weird are the guys who bat right-handed and throw left-handed, like Rickey Henderson.
2006-08-20 14:19:59
165.   bluetahoe
or Cody Ross.

Just realized Chris Young only pitched 1 inning today. Bad news for SD?

2006-08-20 14:20:08
166.   StolenMonkey86
164 - Cody Ross does that too
2006-08-20 14:21:32
167.   Blu2
Is it my imagination or does Ethier seem to hit better with runners on base? Someone probably has the numbers handy to answer that question.
2006-08-20 14:21:40
168.   StolenMonkey86
165 - you probably beat me on the reaction time score yesterday, too
2006-08-20 14:22:32
169.   bluetahoe
former Dodger picther Dennis Powell threw left and batted both ways.
2006-08-20 14:23:10
170.   Bob Timmermann
2006-08-20 14:23:33
171.   Travis
Guillermo Mota traded to the Mets for a PTBNL.
2006-08-20 14:24:27
172.   Marty
164 And me.
2006-08-20 14:24:41
173.   Bluebleeder87
i can throw lefted handed, just not as well as right handed, a friend of mine can throw hard from both sides (that's really weird)
2006-08-20 14:25:20
174.   Bluebleeder87

good news for us Dodger fans.

2006-08-20 14:25:56
175.   Disabled List
159 That doesn't speak very highly for the Giants trivia question researchers.
2006-08-20 14:26:08
176.   Marty
I'm lefty all the way, but the first time I picked up a bat I swung right-handed. Golf right-handed too.
2006-08-20 14:26:38
177.   bluetahoe
Is it my imagination or does Ethier seem to hit better with runners on base? Someone probably has the numbers handy to answer that question.

Welcome back.

Ethier's BA is actually ever so slightly better w/out runners on base as compared to runners on base.

2006-08-20 14:27:03
178.   StolenMonkey86
70 pitches through 6 for D-Lowe
2006-08-20 14:28:41
179.   Bluebleeder87

complete game today?

2006-08-20 14:28:47
180.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres have recalled Manny Alexander!
2006-08-20 14:29:14
181.   bluetahoe
Guillermo Mota traded to the Mets for a PTBNL.

For a split second I was thinking Mota and Piazza were going to be teammates.

2006-08-20 14:30:39
182.   Bob Timmermann
Phil Niekro beat the Giants 30 times also.
2006-08-20 14:31:04
183.   bluetahoe
Matt Morris is really dealing.

I hope that 1st/3rd - 1 out


1st/3rd - 0 out

no scores don't haunt us.

2006-08-20 14:31:19
184.   Bluebleeder87
D-Lowe looked mad, because he didn't get his 3 hit of the game.
2006-08-20 14:31:33
185.   Disabled List
181 Mota and LoDuca have been reunited though. Heart & Soul (tm) live on at Shea!

Bill Plaschke has just applied for a Mets press pass for the rest of 2006.

2006-08-20 14:32:36
186.   fanerman
Lowe is quite capable with the bat.
2006-08-20 14:32:51
187.   Bob Timmermann
Mota's stock must be way down since he was able to slip through waivers all the way to the Mets and didn't grabbed by the Reds.

But they've been snakebit with their new relievers...

2006-08-20 14:33:23
188.   StolenMonkey86
184- he's mad that his BA went back down to double digits
2006-08-20 14:35:55
189.   bluetahoe
Mota was more than terrific when he left us. It's hard to figure out what happened to him. I liked the guy but I sure as shelley don't want to see him find it with NYM.
2006-08-20 14:37:28
190.   Bob Timmermann
Mota has given up 9 home runs in 37 2/3 innings piched this year.
2006-08-20 14:38:50
191.   StolenMonkey86
11 pitches, 1 hit allowed
2006-08-20 14:40:44
192.   bluetahoe
Well, regardless of what's happens from here on out in today's game, Derek Lowe has stepped up as the ace of the staff. He's bringing it start after start. He's been a joy to watch pitch.
2006-08-20 14:40:50
193.   Bluebleeder87
Furcal swinging for the fences, just isn't good on the eyes.
2006-08-20 14:42:19
194.   Bluebleeder87
nice gapper by Lofton, let's see if we can score a few more
2006-08-20 14:42:20
195.   bluetahoe
Speaking of joys, Kenny Lofton has certainly been a joy to watch the past 3-4 weeks.

Thank you Nomar.

2006-08-20 14:42:56
196.   Bluebleeder87
Nomar just aswered my question (2 run bomb) 5-0 Dodgers :o)
2006-08-20 14:44:03
197.   bluetahoe
Since I'm soft hearted I leave Lowe out their to get the shutout. Let him pitch till 1 run scores.

I actually attended his 1 hit gem last season.

2006-08-20 14:45:27
198.   Bob Timmermann
Strained back muscle for Chris Young.
2006-08-20 14:47:21
199.   Bluebleeder87

I'd keep him in as well, if he gets in trouble pull 'em of.

2006-08-20 14:48:42
200.   Greg S
At 2:40 PM Pacific time the sports watching day is officially called successful and over.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-08-20 14:52:47
201.   StolenMonkey86
if Ethier, Betemit, or Martin are successful, Lowe gets a shot at his third hit
2006-08-20 14:53:19
202.   bluetahoe
We are up by 5. Maybe we could bring in Lance Carter to nail it down. LOL...
2006-08-20 14:54:24
203.   bluetahoe
The Giants sure have plenty of situational lefties in their pen.
2006-08-20 14:58:21
204.   bluetahoe
If we could somehow build a 6-7 game cushion I think it'd be time to get the Tobester out there much more frequently.
2006-08-20 14:58:24
205.   henly
hey guys, i'm another lurker that's chiming in.
I live in Bangkok, and don't get a chance to see the games... it just so happens today that i'm up @ 3am to catch this game on MLB radio.

It's fun to get the description of what's happening visually, and you dudes crack me up.

I sure do miss the Dodgers. i've been a fan since the fernando days, and saw live the gibson homer off eckersley.

thanks jon, for hosting this blue community.

2006-08-20 14:59:43
206.   Bluebleeder87
i really hope Lowe gives us the complete game, that way our bullpen is well rested.
2006-08-20 14:59:46
207.   Linkmeister
Giants announcers just said the Dodgers look like the class of the division.

(Falls over in shock)

In other news, Hilo is up 5-0 in the 3rd against Mexico in the Cal Ripken 13-14 year-old World Championship game. A three-run HR and a two-run HR by the same kid.

2006-08-20 15:00:11
208.   Bob Timmermann
You're in Bangkok and you "just happen to be up at 3 am"?

Sure. Sure.

2006-08-20 15:00:14
209.   Disabled List
I retract my earlier statement re: the Giants broadcasters. Kuiper is reasonably decent and not too homer-ish, but Krukow makes me want to gnaw off my own ears.

"I could be a seagull... They eat the same kind of food I do!"

2006-08-20 15:00:42
210.   bhsportsguy
205 Welcome
2006-08-20 15:00:47
211.   fanerman
And Lowe's batting average stays under .100.
2006-08-20 15:01:20
212.   bhsportsguy
208 This is a family site.
2006-08-20 15:02:23
213.   thinkingblue

Don't remind me, please.

2006-08-20 15:03:47
214.   henly
haha. i'm actually sitting in front of my laptop listening to the dodgers game and watching tiger kick a$$...

usually, the only thing i get on cable here is malaysian field hockey and soccer.. bleh.

thank dog for the internet

2006-08-20 15:03:51
215.   thinkingblue
2006-08-20 15:03:54
216.   thinkingblue
2006-08-20 15:04:20
217.   Bluebleeder87
I really hope Lowe shuts the giants down (just as i say that Kent makes a bone head play)
2006-08-20 15:04:41
218.   fanerman
My mom is very angry at Jeff Kent.
2006-08-20 15:04:47
219.   Disabled List
Why isn't Lugo in for Kent at this point?
2006-08-20 15:05:21
220.   Bluebleeder87
well Kent is making this alot more interesting.
2006-08-20 15:05:57
221.   StolenMonkey86
well, it's a save situation now. Tying run is on deck
2006-08-20 15:06:21
222.   Travis
Is Bonds definitely unavailable?
2006-08-20 15:06:34
223.   Bluebleeder87
Lowe tends to slack of when errors accure let's hope that isn't the case this time.
2006-08-20 15:06:50
224.   StolenMonkey86
Bonds is 0-6 against Lowe
2006-08-20 15:08:37
225.   Disabled List
Time for Lowe to come out.
2006-08-20 15:08:48
226.   StolenMonkey86
that should be the end of the game for Lowe
2006-08-20 15:09:16
227.   henly
oooh... bases loaded no outs. didn't think this was going to happen
2006-08-20 15:09:41
228.   Greg S
(bad) memories of April 30th is San Diego.
2006-08-20 15:09:42
229.   StolenMonkey86
enter Saito
2006-08-20 15:09:49
230.   Bluebleeder87
that was not Lowe's foult he pitched a great game [looking at Kent]
2006-08-20 15:10:44
231.   Bluebleeder87

i'm glad i didn't see that game.

2006-08-20 15:10:56
232.   bluetahoe
This would be a sickening loss for us.
2006-08-20 15:11:28
233.   Disabled List
I'm having bad flashbacks to the May 13 game vs. the Giants.

Thank goodness Danys Baez is nowhere around.

2006-08-20 15:13:25
234.   Disabled List
A double play would be awesome here.
2006-08-20 15:14:20
235.   Bluebleeder87
Saito get's Finley, i feel a little better, but in comes Bonds. YIKES!
2006-08-20 15:14:37
236.   StolenMonkey86
now a double play would be awesome

Very timely K for Saito

2006-08-20 15:14:50
237.   henly
wow. is saito as impressive on TV as he sounds on the radio?
2006-08-20 15:15:18
238.   StolenMonkey86
235 - bonds is hitting your comment #
2006-08-20 15:15:21
239.   Greg S
Last year (and any of the last 5 years) you'd be best off walking Bonds in this situation.
2006-08-20 15:15:39
240.   Bob Timmermann

Ask us again after the Bonds AB.

2006-08-20 15:16:01
241.   Disabled List
Barry's hitting .367 with RISP. [gulp]
2006-08-20 15:16:45
242.   Bluebleeder87
2006-08-20 15:16:48
243.   StolenMonkey86
but .200 with 'em loaded
2006-08-20 15:17:35
244.   Bluebleeder87
DP please Saito, Bonds was walked 5-2 Dodgers.
2006-08-20 15:17:49
245.   henly
ugh... hope i didn't jinx it
2006-08-20 15:18:21
246.   fanerman
My nerves can't take this.
2006-08-20 15:19:03
247.   StolenMonkey86
1-2 count on pitches out of the zone
2006-08-20 15:19:13
248.   Bob Timmermann
I somewhat enjoy this.
2006-08-20 15:19:55
249.   Bluebleeder87
good pitch by Saito, strikes out Feliz 5-02 Dodgers with 2 outs.
2006-08-20 15:20:06
250.   Bob Timmermann
With the bases loaded and one out in a 1-1 tie in San Diego, Piazza grounded into a DP.

Still tied in the top of the 8th.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-08-20 15:20:10
251.   Greg S
Saito dominated Feliz.
2006-08-20 15:20:12
252.   Disabled List
Good bit of pitching there by Saito. Kept the ball down the whole time and got Feliz to go fishing.
2006-08-20 15:20:24
253.   Travis
250 Piazza's stranded 8 today.
2006-08-20 15:20:41
254.   StolenMonkey86

Alfonzo .222 with them loaded

2006-08-20 15:21:00
255.   Bob Timmermann
The list of people who have hit 2-out, down by 3 runs, walkoff grand slams is a very odd list of people.

It includes guys like Dick Schofield of the Angels. And Ron Lolich.

2006-08-20 15:21:11
256.   Bluebleeder87
I somewhat enjoy this.

i'll asnwer that when the Dodgers win/or loose

2006-08-20 15:21:19
257.   Linkmeister
2006-08-20 15:21:22
258.   Greg S
This has become a great team
2006-08-20 15:21:23
259.   Bob Timmermann
But not Eliezer Alfonzo.
2006-08-20 15:21:25
260.   bluetahoe
2006-08-20 15:21:25
261.   Disabled List
Every Giant to come the plate with the bases loaded so far in this inning has a >.300 average with RISP.
2006-08-20 15:21:26
262.   fanerman
Breathe easy.
2006-08-20 15:21:30
263.   thinkingblue
Saito closes it out, proving he is no Baez or Carter.
2006-08-20 15:21:30
264.   StolenMonkey86
2006-08-20 15:21:49
265.   Marty
Wow, great job by Sammy.
2006-08-20 15:21:54
266.   henly
nice. sounded awesome
2006-08-20 15:22:04
267.   Bluebleeder87

I enjoy it as well.

2006-08-20 15:22:24
268.   Greg Brock
We win!


2006-08-20 15:22:36
269.   King of the Hobos
It's nice to see Saito knows how to pitch to Alfonzo, don't throw a ball he can hit anywhere near the strike zone.
2006-08-20 15:22:43
270.   StolenMonkey86
Stellar game for Lowe nonetheless

game score: 71

2006-08-20 15:22:47
271.   bluetahoe
wow. is saito as impressive on TV as he sounds on the radio?

Absolutely! He better be a part of our plans in 2007.

2006-08-20 15:22:59
272.   Disabled List
Helluva job by Saito. I was sweating for a bit there, and so was Jeff Kent, I'm sure.
2006-08-20 15:23:29
273.   henly
who is this idiot studdering on KFWB?
2006-08-20 15:25:29
274.   Longhorn Bill
Saito is money
2006-08-20 15:25:31
275.   the OZ
Was Saito throwing a curveball today? I seem to remember him as a two-pitch fastball/slider guy.

If he's added a third, effective strikeout pitch, cool.

2006-08-20 15:25:53
276.   Bob Timmermann
I think that could be A Martinez.
2006-08-20 15:29:18
277.   henly
Great game guys. It's always fun to catch the DT color commentary. good night from BKK
2006-08-20 15:32:48
278.   StolenMonkey86
Loney is 2-3 with 2 doubles, and Kemp is 1-3 with a triple
2006-08-20 15:33:33
279.   Bob Timmermann
If Kent made a couple of plays in the ninth that would have been a sub 2 hour game. It ended up as a 2:15 game.
2006-08-20 15:35:25
280.   Bill Crain
275 The curve was very different from the slider, reminded me a little of Gagne's real slow one as a change-up off his change-up. Saito doesn't really pitch with the count or against it; he pitches like there is no count. Anything at anytime. Maybe it's just demeanor, but it looks to me like he has total confidence in his ability to throw a strike--with movement--any time he needs to. Kind of like Scott Hatteberg in reverse.
2006-08-20 15:35:34
281.   natepurcell
Absolutely! He better be a part of our plans in 2007.

he is going to be 37 next year. it would be foolish to depend on him to anchor the bullpen next year since relief pitchers are so unpredictable; especially 37 yr old relief pitchers.

anyways, the demotion hasn't ruined loney's confidence, 2-3 with 2 long doubles and the out was a flyout to the left field wall today in the Vegas game. Keep it up J-lo, you'll be playing alot up in the show next year.

2006-08-20 15:35:44
282.   StolenMonkey86
Kemp's line in Vegas (133 AB):

.331/.403/.519, 14 BB, 24 K, 44 H, 9 2B, 5 3B, 2 HR, 10 SB, 2 CS, 21 R, 29 RBI

2006-08-20 15:41:28
283.   natepurcell
a prospect who is impressing me is Bridger Hunt, our mid round draftee from this year's draft. He is currently playing cf and is actually in Low A columbus at the season age of 20 which makes him pretty legit for the league.

hes hitting 332/391/420 in 181ABs. I think he might be a top 15 prospect for me especially if he can play a legit CF.

2006-08-20 15:42:19
284.   Underbruin
282 - Kemp can hit?! I'm shocked, really. No, you see this look on my face? Shock, all the way.

Only thing that's a minor worry would be the low # of HRs even while playing in a hitter's park(/league?), but his SLG doesn't seem to be suffering nevertheless...

2006-08-20 15:42:46
285.   Bob Timmermann
Still tied in San Diego, 1-1.

If the Padres lose, they fall behind Philadelphia in the wild card race.

2006-08-20 15:46:06
286.   Bill Crain
281 I wouldn't give him a long term contract, and Broxton looks to the the Anchor of The Future(tm). But I'd like to see Saito back next year pitching short relief for some amount of middle-relief-middle-level money. Maybe Grady should stop giving him save opportunities, just to keep the price down...

I'm kidding, of course, but Billy Beane might just take that seriously.

2006-08-20 15:47:03
287.   StolenMonkey86
284 - I think I remember hearing him say he's not trying to hit homers. Right now he's working on not striking out so much and recognizing breaking balls. The part to bold would be 14 BB 24 K, and the fact that he's got a .072 ISO patience isn't too shabby

He's got an RBI single and a stolen base in the 8th. Just scored on a Riggs single

2006-08-20 15:50:14
288.   GoBears
279 If Kent made a couple of plays in the ninth that would have been a sub 2 hour game. It ended up as a 2:15 game.

I was just thinking the same thing.

But what was even more surprising was last night's game. 21 runs, 25 hits, 3 errors, and 8 pitchers, and it still took only 2:30. 129 pitches for the Dodgers, 141 for the Giants. And the Dodgers scored those 14 runs without any time-saving HRs.

Now, that was old-school.

2006-08-20 15:50:36
289.   StolenMonkey86
And in other news, Bobby Cox managed the Braves into a loss by having Adam Laroche bunt with runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs.

Laroche bunted into a 5-3 double play.

2006-08-20 15:52:19
290.   StolenMonkey86
289 - excuse me, 2-5-3
2006-08-20 15:53:02
291.   natepurcell
Maybe Grady should stop giving him save opportunities, just to keep the price down...

Saito is technically a rookie so he doesn't get to dictate his salary for another 2 years after this one.

2006-08-20 15:53:49
292.   Linkmeister
So lemme guess: Sunday Night Baseball on ESPN is Yankees-Sox, right?
2006-08-20 15:55:28
293.   Bill Crain
291 Good point. How is the number determined?
2006-08-20 15:57:37
294.   thinkingblue
Joey P, wherever you are, I think someone's impersonating you:

2006-08-20 15:57:38
295.   thinkingblue
Joey P, wherever you are, I think someone's impersonating you:

2006-08-20 15:59:09
296.   Icaros
Why are people scared of losing Saito? The Dodgers own him until he gets free agency in six years, when he's 42.
2006-08-20 15:59:43
297.   King of the Hobos
283 I'm not sure how well he plays CF, but he played the infield for CMSU this season, so he may not be very experinced in CF. He was a 3B at CMSU, so he probably has a good arm, and his stolen bases (22 for CMSU, 11 for Columbus) mean he has some speed. I could see him becoming an utility player, but I don't see much more than Chone Figgins with less speed.

Also, is it "an utility player" or "a utility player?" I can't convince myself that "an utility player" sounds correct.

2006-08-20 16:00:44
298.   Underbruin
287 - I don't recall hearing about that, but I trust your judgement in the matter. Even so, playing in such a hitting-friendly environment with his kind of power I might expect a little more by way of homers even with less swinging for the fences. Then again, as I said, his SLG doesn't seem to be suffering, so perhaps he's just leaving shots at the warning track instead of over the fence.

And I understand that .072 Iso patience isn't bad, but it's about the same as the .075 he had at Jacksonville before his callup (.327/.402/.528 in 199 AB), and before he ostensibly began working on his SO rate and pitch recognition. Not that it's not encouraging to hear that Kemp (He Who Shall Surpass Chuck Norris, and yea, even Cole Hamels) is continuing to hit well in the minors. :)

2006-08-20 16:00:44
299.   GoBears
297. OK, someone's got to take one for the team here, and get us past 300 comments to undo what thinkingblue did to mess up the screen size.
2006-08-20 16:01:37
300.   GoBears
Not sure why 297 showed up at the start of 299. My working hypothesis is that it happened because I'm a moron.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-08-20 16:01:57
301.   GoBears
Phew. There we go.
2006-08-20 16:02:30
302.   StolenMonkey86
I think you go by the vowel sound, not by the letter.

Just like saying "an hour," or "we can find a use for him."

2006-08-20 16:02:36
303.   natepurcell
Good point. How is the number determined?

for the first 3 years of a player's mlb career, his salary is at the discretion of the big league team he is playing for.

2006-08-20 16:02:41
304.   Gagne55
292 Yup. :D
2006-08-20 16:02:46
305.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
Wow, that ROCKED!

Just back home from the game, and while it was disappointing to see Lowe's marvelous pitching get spoiled by the lack of a defensive replacement (anyone say Julio Lugo in for the stiff Jeff Kent?), it was nothing short of awesome to feel the energy of the PhoneCo Park crowd peak and fade, peak and fade, peak and dissolve while me and my friend SCREAMED a joyous victory with cathartic emotion.


Awesome! I love it!

2006-08-20 16:03:05
306.   dzzrtRatt
Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing.
2006-08-20 16:03:05
307.   dzzrtRatt
Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing.
2006-08-20 16:03:25
308.   GoBears
Oh rats, I forgot that there's a grace period of several comments before the previous 50 comments get hidden.

C'mon folks, let's do like Saito did for Kent and make thinkingblue's error fade away!

2006-08-20 16:03:27
309.   thinkingblue

? Screen size is fine for me.

2006-08-20 16:06:17
310.   GoBears
309. Well, if it's only me, then I'm an even bigger moron that I'd suspected.

For me, that long URL you posted screwed up the frame. Might be a font-size choice, or browser.

Anyway, it's of extremely little importance.

2006-08-20 16:07:11
311.   natepurcell
its messed up for me too GoBears.
2006-08-20 16:07:33
312.   dzzrtRatt
[306-7] were for GoBears.

I find it incredibly hard to believe where the Dodgers now find themselves: A near consensus class of the NL. There must be a mistake somewhere. This wasn't supposed to happen.

2006-08-20 16:08:09
313.   Underbruin
I think it may depend on your browser...
2006-08-20 16:08:43
314.   Linkmeister
Update: Hilo leads Mexico 5-2 going to the 6th and final inning of the Ripken 12-and-under World Championship game. It's on OLN.

Hershiser and Thorne are doing LLWS on ESPN.

2006-08-20 16:09:30
315.   Marty
Big shakeup in the lineup for the night game. It's Sox v. Yanks. I love variety.
2006-08-20 16:09:36
316.   King of the Hobos
302 So hard U sounds use a? Thanks for the help.

310 I had the same problem, so you're not a moron. Thinkingblue, if you're posting a long url, can be helpful, as it shortens the url.

2006-08-20 16:09:41
317.   natepurcell
Padres win, az and sd are both 4 games back now.
2006-08-20 16:10:09
318.   Bill Crain
303 Geez, the man is getting thousands of nickels per nasty black-painting slider. I always knew there were loopholes somewhere in the collective bargaining agreement. It's way, way too much fun watching him pitch. I hope he's not homesick for Osaka.
2006-08-20 16:13:57
319.   StolenMonkey86
so who wins the NL Cy Young award this year?
2006-08-20 16:15:29
320.   Linkmeister
Hilo wins the pennant! Hilo wins the pennant!
2006-08-20 16:16:38
321.   Disabled List
My screen size was ok too, but I've had the problem where long URLs bork the frame size. If you're going to post a long link, remember: is your friend.
2006-08-20 16:16:43
322.   King of the Hobos
Mark Alexander ends the game for Vegas on 2 strike outs, 51's win 4-3. Columbus won 12-2 in a 5 inning game, and Vero currently leads 10-1 in the 5th.
2006-08-20 16:18:47
323.   GoBears
So, I see that Tiger finished the job. I don't really follow golf at all, other than to not turn the sound off when it comes around on ESPNews, but I certainly appreciate how great he is.

Let me ask the few still assembled: how many other athletes can you think of who came to the top level of competition so ridiculously over-hyped and then proceeded over the course of their careers to completely match the hype, if not exceed it?

There are plenty of guys who are better than anyone expected them to be, but that's not what I mean. I mean a guy who met or exceeded expectations that were outrageously high.

It probably would have to be an ESPN-era phenomenon because they brought hype to new levels. So who else besides Tiger?

Michael Jordan did it, I think. LeBron James has a chance, but we'll have to see if his body breaks down once he hits his 30s. I can't think of any baseball players off hand who managed to exceed expectations of superstardom. Peyton Manning has been awfully good, but hasn't won it all, and any football player is way too dependent on his teammates to really judge fairly.

Between Tiger and Jon Weisman, I've been forced to become less fundamentalist in my GoBears theology. It's disconcerting.

2006-08-20 16:19:28
324.   Bill Crain
319 Carpenter or Webb, most likely, just off the wins. But you got to give Penny a shot.
2006-08-20 16:22:09
325.   Marty
323 If Bo Jackson doesn't ruin his hip, he had a chance to be one of those ones who lived up to it.
2006-08-20 16:22:58
326.   King of the Hobos
319 I would vote for Brandon Webb, although just barely over Carpenter. Zambrano, Penny, Johnson and Harang all deserve some consideration, but I don't think any of them deserve it as much as Webb.
2006-08-20 16:25:23
327.   Disabled List
AL MVP: Manny or Papi
AL CY YOUNG: Halladay
AL ROY: Liriano, Papelbon, Weaver, or Verlander. What a tough call this one is.

NL MVP: Soriano or Beltran
NL CY YOUNG: Webb? Penny? Carpenter? Not a great race here.
NL ROY: 3.5!!!

2006-08-20 16:26:19
328.   GoBears
325. Agreed. And there've been lots of others who started out great, but either got hurt or enjoyed the fast life too much. So who else, like Tiger, has managed to stay on script?
2006-08-20 16:27:25
329.   StolenMonkey86
324 - I go with Zambrano before Carpenter, giving him extra credit for the team he's got behind him, the better strikeout numbers, and the fact that he's 13-5 with the Cubs instead of 12-6 with the Cards right now. Webb would be reasonable.

I doubt there will be a 20 game winner, but I would give Penny the most favorable odds at it in the NL.

If a National League pitcher pitched a no hitter, that would shoot him to the front.

Harang has 4 CG, FWIW.

2006-08-20 16:28:52
330.   GoBears
327. Are those predictions? Or your choices?

Because don't be surprised if Jeter wins MVP. And I would be surprised if Ethier wins ROY, unless he continues to rake and Zimmerman and Fielder falter. He (1) didn't play enough early in the season to accumulate PAs, and (2) plays on the west coast. OTOH, Jon's SI article can't hurt his chances!

2006-08-20 16:30:09
331.   Marty
328 Abdul-Jabbar and Ali come to mind.
2006-08-20 16:33:10
332.   Travis
330 Playing on the west coast has never hurt anybody in end-of-year awards voting.
2006-08-20 16:34:21
333.   Xeifrank
Jeers and chants of Beat LA.
by: DodgerProse

A foggy weekend in the bay.
Jeers and chants of Beat LA.
Time to battle vs the West.
We'll find out soon, who is the best.

Schmidt proves too tough on day one.
Bonds HRs? I counted none.
We've got youth and they've got gray.
I like our chances any day.

Pitch counts, pitch counts, don't you say.
10 run lead, Drew leads the way.
Maddux, what a wonderful trade.
Odalis Perez was overpaid.

Nomar owns this aging team.
4 for 4 every day it seems.
Lowe getting groundouts what a good sign.
Meanwhile Barry rides the pine.

Mission accomplished still en fuego.
Next victim down south is San Diego.
We'll show them Hendy, we'll show them Chad.
We'll beat them silly, cuz they're just bad.

2006-08-20 16:34:43
334.   Travis
332 I didn't mean for my comment to be so absolute. It's hurt some people, but the percentage of awards winners from West Division teams is much higher than you'd expect.
2006-08-20 16:35:55
335.   dan reines

Duncan and Shaq come to mind, but your point is well taken.

Seems like this is a phenomenon most common in basketball. Outside of serious fan circles, baseball players don't get much notice until they actually do start delivering on their promise, and and sometime after that, actually.

Also, from one Old Blue to another regarding the Weisman/Woods combo throwing you off your blue-and-gold fundamentalism, I say that's harmless. We'll still take them out in November.

Now, you're not a Tennessee fan, are you?

2006-08-20 16:38:09
336.   Disabled List
330 Those are my choices, I guess. But I wouldn't count out Andre. He gets mentioned in the ROY debates out here on NY radio (His name came up on a show I was listening to on Friday), so I think he's been getting a little more publicity. But yeah, the lack of ABs early in the year is hurting him in the accumulated stats that the voters look at.

Of course, if it was up to the New York media, Jeter would get the MVP award every year. When they talk about Jeter, the talk radio honks sound like the guys from the old SNL "Da Bulls, Da Bears" skit talking about Ditka.

Guy #1: "If the Yankees had a lineup of nothing but mini-Jeters playing the Red Sox, what would the score be?"

Guy #2: [thinking] "72-1 Yankees, but only because one of the mini-Jeters might make an error, giving the Sox an unearned run."

2006-08-20 16:38:45
337.   King of the Hobos
Does Plaschke get to vote? He's a member of the BBWAA, but I'm not sure if he's eligible to vote. If he is eligible, then Ethier has a guarunteed vote and Penny is guarunteed not to receive a vote.
2006-08-20 16:38:49
338.   StolenMonkey86
330 - it will require a team effort. The Dodgers will have to go through the lineup 5 times a game so Ethier has enough plate appearances to qualify for the batting title. Not even ESPN could give the ROY to someone else if he pulled that off.

AL ROY - depends. It's not clear unless Verlander wins 20 (he has more wins than any NL pitcher at 14!) or Weaver never loses (not bloody likely). Liriano will have to come back healthy and still pitch well, but his injury will hurt his chances. Hard to ignore a rookie with 175 K in 142 innings though. Papelbon is on the Red Sox, so he has the most attention, and while he's blown 5 saves, he has an ERA under 1. If he has an ERA under 1 at the end of the year, he could get the votes over Liriano with 200 K, Verlander with 20 wins, or Weaver undefeated thanks to ESPN's Red Sox obsession.

2006-08-20 16:43:11
339.   Bob Timmermann
The LA Times prohibits any of its writers from voting for awards or in polls.

But Plaschke is a BBWAA member.

2006-08-20 16:45:49
340.   Travis
338 Last year's NL Rookie of the Year had 312 AB's, so it can be done.
2006-08-20 16:52:30
341.   Disabled List
The Dodgers have won 12 ROY awards in Los Angeles, more than any other team.

While I am normally a big conspiracy theorist when it comes to East Coast bias, I'm not sure it's applicable here.

2006-08-20 16:52:47
342.   GoBears
339. The LA Times prohibits any of its writers from voting for awards or in polls.

Well, couldn't Plaschke credibly claim that he's not really a writer, and so be allowed to vote? a fox!

2006-08-20 16:56:17
343.   GoBears
341. I'm not talking about consipiracy theories in discounting Ethier's chances. I'm just saying that playing on the West Coast, with most of his games too late for the SportsCenter that most of the country watches, and given that, as we know, a LOT of baseball writers don't know much at all about teams they don't see a lot (insert joke here), it reduces Ethier's chances on the margin. I'm not saying it's any sort of disqualification for anyone - just that if it looks pretty even between him and, say, Zimmerman, Ethier's nocturnal exploits will get less notice.
2006-08-20 17:01:27
344.   Travis
343 How many times are Zimmerman's highlights on ESPN? Nationals games aren't even available to the majority of D.C. residents.
2006-08-20 17:06:32
345.   StolenMonkey86
340- I was going for the guarantee
2006-08-20 17:10:40
346.   GoBears
Part of it is highlights, but the other part, esp. for beat writers, is seeing guys play in person. West Coast teams get seen a lot by West Coast writers (NL West, say) because of the unbalanced schedules.

Same for East and Central.

The difference is that the national media giant is on the East Coast. So guys in Bristol see the Mets a lot, and hence see Mets opponents a lot. Zimmerman played many more games against the Mets than Ethier.

Look, I'm not trying to say that Ethier is unknown back East, or that there is some sort of conscious bias (in the "New Yorkers hate California" sort of way). I'm just saying that guys who play after most of the voters have gone to sleep are more likely to suffer than benefit from that simple fact of life. Not so much as to overrule all other factors, just "other things equal."

Sheesh - forget I mentioned it.

2006-08-20 17:12:48
347.   fanerman
I'm sure other people have done some quick math... but Ethier needs about 500ish at-bats (503?) to quality for the batting title. And he has 300ish at-bats right now (299). So he would need 200 more at-bats in 38 games.. that's more than 5 at-bats per game. Assuming he plays every game. Maybe if we put him at lead-off.
2006-08-20 17:20:33
348.   Disabled List
It goes by plate appearances, not at-bats. We crunched the numbers a while back, and figured that Ethier would probably fall about 20-30 PAs short of qualifying. He could still win the title if a hypothetical 0-for-(however many ABs short he is) still put him on top. But since he's not even ahead of Freddy Sanchez right now as it is, he's not gonna be able to do it.
2006-08-20 17:21:12
349.   DXMachina
323 Magic and Bird. In football, Joe Namath and OJ.
2006-08-20 17:23:55
350.   dzzrtRatt
346 The Dodgers have been disproportionately represented in the ROY results, including such borderline winners as Eric Karros and Todd Hollandsworth. Four of the last six AL ROY winners were from west coast teams, including the last two. I don't think the east coast bias will stand up as an explanation if Ethier misses the award, or if Papelbon wins it over, say, Jared Weaver.

I think it'll come down to numbers, BA, RBI, HR. That seems to be the pattern. The guy who finishes highest in those categories, given enough PA to appear on the leader lists. Ethier's biggest problem, if he has one, is if he hasn't played enough games.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-08-20 17:25:32
351.   fanerman
Plate appearances. I knew I was talking about them but I kept saying at-bats to myself, and I ended up looking up the wrong number.

Darn. Still, if he somehow managed to get enough to quality and he finished 2nd, that would be pretty darn cool. Maybe ROY cool.

2006-08-20 17:32:07
352.   Eric Enders
323 "Let me ask the few still assembled: how many other athletes can you think of who came to the top level of competition so ridiculously over-hyped and then proceeded over the course of their careers to completely match the hype, if not exceed it?"

There are 2 Yankee centerfielders who meet the criteria to a T... Mantle and DiMaggio.
Willie Mays.
Bob Feller never did quite live up to the hype, but almost.
A lot of old school basketball players: Chamberlain, Russell, Bird, etc.
Peyton Manning? (Don't follow the NFL enough. Or at all, actually.)

I would argue that Michael Jordan doesn't belong on the list. He certainly exceeded expectations, but the expectations for Jordan were not ridiculously high. Nobody expected that he would become one of the best players of all time. (In fact, if you recall, the exact expectation was that he would be the third-best player in his own draft class.)

2006-08-20 17:32:51
353.   Uncle Miltie
Just moved in. A few of my roommates are kinda weird...
2006-08-20 17:33:28
354.   fanerman
353 - And the first thing you did was unpack your computer and log into Dodger Thoughts?
2006-08-20 17:33:49
355.   Eric Enders
351 I'm sure Bob will correct me on this if I'm wrong, but I think the phantom hitless at-bats only apply if you actually win the title. They don't apply to anyone else -- you can't use them to officially finish second, in other words.
2006-08-20 17:34:18
356.   Eric Enders
354 Well, duh. You would do something else?
2006-08-20 17:34:45
357.   Marty
Miltie, what school did you end up at?
2006-08-20 17:35:03
358.   GoBears
349. I thought about Magic and Bird. But their hype was short-lived - really starting with their NCAA Tourney run that led to their matchup in the final. Maybe a little earlier that season. But still, good choices.

Namath? No way. He wasn't that good. He's famous for backing up his bold Super Bowl prediction, and for being "Broadway Joe," but look at his numbers some day. His later hype lived up to his earlier hype, but he was never that great a QB.

OJ? OK. At least while he was a Bill. And if he'd actually played on any good teams, he'd have been even better.

Earl Campbell comes to mind in that vein.

But Tiger's expectations hype was (and Tiger turned out to be) on the order of "best ever." "Might even pass Nicklaus's record number of majors." This is ridiculous. And it turns out he'll match the hype before he hits 35. Sickening.

2006-08-20 17:37:40
359.   fanerman
And Miltie, are you a freshman? (I'm out of the loop)
2006-08-20 17:40:03
360.   Greg S
Just to follow up on the Saito thing (although Nate just about covered it)... As a rookie, he is making the minimum salary (or $500 above it 'cuz he was nice or something) of $327,500. Next year, he will be entitled to no more than that number plus a cost of living increase. He will not be eligible for free agency before he is eligible for Social Security so there is little incentive to pay him more just to stay in his good graces. Dodgers simply need to pay him enough to keep him from quitting baseball in the U.S. My guess is that they will give him some number on the low side of similar second year players with good numbers which means about $500K. If they don't do that, they are what some people would refer to as "stupid". Luckily, I believe them to not be and Sammy will be a Dodger next year.
2006-08-20 17:40:07
361.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Eric is correct. And the phantom ABs have only been used once for one of Tony Gwynn's batting titles. He was way ahead of Ellis Burks.
2006-08-20 17:40:40
362.   Strike4
325. Tiger has very small company. I'd throw him in with the Babe, Ali and the Great One in terms of surpassing extremely high expectations and changing their sport. Nicklaus had a lot of hype, much of it negative, when he turned pro. He's probably on the list too. Jack had that great quote, "I had my century, Tiger can have his."
2006-08-20 17:44:43
363.   Eric Enders
362 Ruth certainly does not qualify under the criteria posed in 323. He didn't arrive in the majors with anywhere near the expectation that he would become the best pitcher (or hitter) of all time.
2006-08-20 17:48:32
364.   Greg S
In my opinion, Tiger is the most dominating athelete in his sport, ever.
You have to think about the fact that as a golfer, every time you go out to compete you are up against 125 or so of the best in the world at the same time. You have to beat all of them. In other sports, it's usually you vs. one other guy. One of the two of you will win. In golf, all it takes is for one guy out of 125 to have the tournament of his life (and out of 125, someone is bound to do so). For a golfer to win as much as Tiger has is hard to fathom. Sorry Babe and Mike.
2006-08-20 17:51:19
365.   Linkmeister
Somebody upthread mentioned Kareem; I'd argue he had the hype and lived up to it. He took the Bucks to the conference finals his first year in the league and they won the championship in his second year. They got to the finals again in his fifth year, faded (I think he was hurt: he only played 65 games) in his sixth, and then he was traded to the Lakers.

I remember watching that UCLA game against Elvin Hayes and Houston in the Astrodome.

2006-08-20 17:52:22
366.   Rob M
The two baseball players with the most hype surrounding them in the last 20 years or so were A-Rod and Griffey Jr. They were both no-brainer top picks out of high school. A-Rod has lived up to the hype. Griffey Jr. was on his way before injuries derailed him.

I think it's interesting to consider guys that were saddled with hype as schoolboys. Casey Klausen in a current hyp-ee. Lebron is a good example. It's early, but if anything he's exceeded expectations so far. There is no precedent for what he's done at his age.

2006-08-20 17:53:25
367.   Eric Enders
"In my opinion, Tiger is the most dominating athelete in his sport, ever."

I don't really know enough about golf to make this statement definitively, but I feel pretty confident that in that regard -- most dominating athlete in his sport -- Babe Ruth pretty much chews up Tiger and eats him for lunch. Win seven more majors and then we can talk.

I think there are several others who could give Ruth a run for his money -- Wayne Gretzky and George Mikan come to mind as rather obvious ones.

2006-08-20 17:55:27
368.   Eric Enders
369. Jack Nicklaus

364 "For a golfer to win as much as Tiger has is hard to fathom."


2006-08-20 17:57:52
369.   Marty
368 369 how did you do that?
2006-08-20 17:58:06
370.   Greg S
There is no precedent for what he's done at his age
Maybe not in basketball. Winning the Masters by 12 strokes at the age of 21 isn't too bad.
2006-08-20 17:58:19
371.   dzzrtRatt
I recall a lot of hype around Darryl Strawberry. I realize he sabotaged his career, but before the drugs, he was MVP, and helped get the Mets into the playoffs twice, with one championship.
2006-08-20 17:58:25
372.   Eric Enders
I just put a bold around the 369. Otherwise it's a normal comment.
2006-08-20 17:58:59
373.   Marty
nevermind, since I was 369 it's pretty obvious.
2006-08-20 18:00:05
374.   Greg S
369 Sorry Jack. But how old were you when you won your 12th Major? I'm talking about win rate.
2006-08-20 18:00:10
375.   Marty
Tiger's most awsome performance was winning the 2000 US Open at Pebble. He was 12 under. Second place was 3 over. Amazing.
2006-08-20 18:01:26
376.   Travis
Venus and Serena Williams were hyped long before they went pro and could have dominated tennis for a long time had they not lost interest.
2006-08-20 18:02:07
377.   Marty
I have a lot of golf buddies who were very hesitant to say Tiger would be better than Nicklaus 7 years ago. They aren't anymore.
2006-08-20 18:03:18
378.   GoBears
362. Gretzky is a good choice. He was hyped from before he was playing juniors. And he transformed the game when he got to the NHL.

Not to take anything away from Ali, but I think I'd put boxing in its own category. I always find it difficult to judge boxing talent. "Boxing hype" is redundant, first of all, and the intervention of promoters makes the level of competition endogenous. I guess if you never lose, and never duck anyone, then you're pretty darn good, but it's hard to put much credence in accumulated win stats.

Plus, it's boxing. Absent a knockout, scoring is subjective and of questionable validity.

2006-08-20 18:03:19
379.   GoBears
362. Gretzky is a good choice. He was hyped from before he was playing juniors. And he transformed the game when he got to the NHL.

Not to take anything away from Ali, but I think I'd put boxing in its own category. I always find it difficult to judge boxing talent. "Boxing hype" is redundant, first of all, and the intervention of promoters makes the level of competition endogenous. I guess if you never lose, and never duck anyone, then you're pretty darn good, but it's hard to put much credence in accumulated win stats.

Plus, it's boxing. Absent a knockout, scoring is subjective and of questionable validity.

2006-08-20 18:03:21
380.   dzzrtRatt
Namath was more a case of a highly-rated quarterback defecting to the AFL and playing in New York, which created a media sensation orchestrated by the Jets' owner to bring attention to his team and league. That said, he was a superb passer who probably should have retired in the early 70s because with damage to his knees, each additional season he played after the Super Bowl diminished his legacy.

That's sort of how I feel about Griffey, Jr., too. He was a superstar when he left Seattle, but he never regained it.

2006-08-20 18:05:29
381.   Marty
I cringe when I think of Namath in a Ram's uniform.
2006-08-20 18:06:23
382.   dzzrtRatt
Another hype = performance guy: John Elway. And while we're on the Farm, what about Jim Plunkett.

I realize, none of these are Tiger level, but I'm thinking about players who lived up to their early hype as rarities. So many of them end up like Mike Morgan or Todd Von Poppel.

2006-08-20 18:06:56
383.   Rob M
370 No use comparing apples to oranges. I'm only comparing LeBron to other basketball players. He is more dominant at his age than any previous basketball player. There are atheletes from plenty of other sports that peaked at age 21 or earlier even. One might make a case for Magic Johnson's incredible game 6 performance in the NBA finals at age 20, but he wasn't close to being the league MVP at that age, where LeBron could have easily won the award this year. He would have been far more deserving than Nash.

371 Strawberry was the last hyped schoolboy star before Griffey. He was a star, but in some ways he was alway a bit of a disappointment.

2006-08-20 18:11:43
384.   Greg S
Nicklaus won 33 tournaments (eight majors) through age 30. Tiger Woods has won 51 tournaments (12 majors) through 30. Throwing Nicklaus' hat into the ring would make sense. And then Tiger is about 50% more dominant.
2006-08-20 18:23:22
385.   Bluebleeder87
I think Jim Thorpe was a great all around athlete.
2006-08-20 18:38:03
386.   Marty
Sugar Ray Leonard was another that lived up to the hype.
2006-08-20 18:45:51
387.   Goozmani
tyson vs. ali ?
2006-08-20 18:49:42
388.   Marty
The NY team is down one run in the bottom of the sixth in the little league WS game. I just heard one of their kids shout "one effing run" except he dropped the f-bomb. I think ESPN cut the mike right after.
2006-08-20 18:58:23
389.   Marty
Then the game ends on a bizarre play. NY has a runner on first (he walked) with one out. The pitcher is throwing a no-hitter. The batter singles to break the no-hitter, but the right fielder throws out the runner at first. The batter who is on second by now forgot how many outs there were and started walking back to the dugout thinking the game was over. He gets tagged out by the dugout and the game IS over.
2006-08-20 19:04:30
390.   bhsportsguy
I have to admit that the streak was extraordinary thing to see but what is more important is that they won six straight after the first loss and then after getting beat up pretty well for two games, they came back and one the next two to win the series.

I am sure they feel pretty good about themselves, Billingsley now has 2 big starts this week to open the series against the Padres and then to close the series against D-Backs. Fortunately, he has pitched in both places so he should have no problem there.

Still not sure which of the two teams behind us has the better chance to catch us, Arizona does have some pitching problems but the Padres just don't score at home. I expect to see the best out of these teams, Padres throwing Park, Peavy and Williams while the D-Backs will throw Batista and Livan for sure, while Vargas has pitched well, I think they may skip him and throw Webb but maybe it doesn't matter since they play the Padres right after us and they are battling them in the Wild Card race.

2006-08-20 19:15:07
391.   das411
So is anybody else watching this WILLIAM SHATNER ROAST?!?!? It's pretty awesome...Steve, even Betty White is there!

Yes Bob, Jeri Ryan is there too.

2006-08-20 19:16:57
392.   thinkblue0
was down south last night and caught the angels game. Phenomenal seats first row behind the visitors dugout...and I didn't like it.

The Angels fans might be the most boring fans in the world. All the fireworks every time they announce the lineup or hit a HR or so hokey...and so is that annoying rally monkey.

Just seemed like Bush league compared to going to the Ravine.

2006-08-20 19:18:07
393.   GoBears
382 Another hype = performance guy: John Elway.

I just threw up a little in my mouth. Puhleeze. Had Elway not won those two Super Bowls (thank you Terrell Davis) he'd be remembered as a hugely talented disappointment. I was a Broncos fan back when he was drafted, held out, and forced his trade. And I watched him every game for years. He was a superb athlete, with a rifle arm and a great ability to stay alive in the pocket (like Tarkenton - sorry Bob - only strong). But he didn't have the first idea how to read defenses and had zero touch. He threw everything as hard as he could, and my, those passes that were overthrown by 20 yards sure did look pretty, didn't they?

Elway was a bad QB in a great athlete's body for about his first 7-8 years. Then, as so often happens with QBs, he got better as he aged. And even better after he aged too much to run around like a chicken with his head cut off. But the time Terrell Davis was ready to dominate, Elway was the perfect complementary QB.

He is a guy who NEVER lived up to the hype, and yet, because he finished with those two rings, no one ever seemed to notice on the national stage.

Broncos fans sure noticed during those first several years. Gary Kubiak, his backup, was wildly popular. Elway missed a lot of time due to injury (too much running around, not enough smarts) that Kubiak got to play quite a bit. And the fans loved it when he'd come in and very modestly outperform Elway.

Feh. I'll admire Tiger. I'll admire Jon. But I'll wear red in Memorial Stadium before I'll agree that Elway was anywhere near as good as his hype.

2006-08-20 19:18:38
394.   KG16
I hate to say it, but I don't think Tiger was "over-hyped" before he turned pro. I remember seeing him play back in high school (a buddy of mine was on the golf team and we were in the same league), and he was incredible back then. Plus everything he did while at Stanford (the US Amature titles and NCAA titles), he was a legit phenom.

The ESPN era definitely helped his hype, but he was well worth it.

Other than that, I can't think of anyone. What was the hype like for Bo Jackson? I remember him being one of the best in two sports but I was too young when he broke in to really pay attention to the hype.

2006-08-20 19:22:51
395.   Uncle Miltie
354- I moved in yesterday, but finished moving everything in today. I haven't been on dodger thoughts since wednesday night :(
357- I'm a sophomore at sonoma state. I'm looking to transfer next fall. My top choice right now is University of Oregon

My roommates are pretty cool but one of them is a really strange guy. We went out last night and he stayed in his room reading science fiction books. He's a pretty weird dude. He may have some social problems.

2006-08-20 19:23:02
396.   Eric Enders
Just finished Deadwood... whew. That was the best hour of television I've seen in quite some time.
2006-08-20 19:31:09
397.   Penarol1916
284. So compared to his next nearest competitor through age 30, Tiger has 54.5% more total wins and 50% more majors. Through their first 20 seasons, Gretzky has more than 60% more points than his nearest competitor. And if you are going to count golfers, you may as well count NASCAR drivers, because them about as athletic as golfers. Richard Petty won 94% more races than any other driver, so I will have to respectfully disagree that Tiger Woods is the greatest athlete of all time.
2006-08-20 19:31:21
398.   natepurcell
how many innings should we limit Billingsley to this year?

2004- 134.1 IP
2005- 146 IP
2006- 139 IP (vegas + LA)

how many more innings do we want to put on his arm? 175 tops? I am really not comfortable exceeding 175 innings on a 21/22 yr old arm.

2006-08-20 19:32:32
399.   Marty
396 If you mention anything about the episode I'll have your legs broken.
2006-08-20 19:35:18
400.   Jon Weisman
393 - Thanks, but I don't belong anywhere in this conversation. If I did, I think I'd be making more than four figures a year doing it.

Meanwhile, Elway "never lived up to the hype?" I'm pretty attuned to what the hype for Elway was. No one said he'd be the Babe Ruth of football. The hype was that he'd be a great quarterback. And for a while, he was ... hyperbolic accusations of "zero touch" or not.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-08-20 19:38:21
401.   fanerman
398 There's 38 games left. Billingsley is probably scheduled to pitch 7-8 more times, assumming he'll be pitching every 5th game. That's probably too much. 6 innings per start means about 45 innings more. If we make the playoffs and make a run, maybe he gets a start there, too.

That is a lot. What could the Dodgers do? Just skip a start here and there?

2006-08-20 19:40:34
402.   Jon Weisman
395 - Glad you weren't around for today's ninth inning.

There are worse things in life than staying inside and reading. Give the guy some time.

2006-08-20 19:42:20
403.   GoBears
400. I don't think it was hyperbole. Well, OK, "zero touch," I suppose, has to be hyperbole. But he was really wild. Rocket arm - strongest I'd ever seen - but man did he miss receivers a lot. And by a lot. There are two things you must do if you live in Denver: ski and obsess about the Broncos. And Elway was the poster-child for "overrated" for years.

And I just threw you in with Tiger into a 2-man club excluding Elway of "Stanford guys I respect." I'll let you know if the club expands.

2006-08-20 19:43:05
404.   natepurcell

I would spot start him with Sele a couple of starts in september.

2006-08-20 19:44:05
405.   King of the Hobos
I expect Billingsley to be our 4th starter in the playoffs, assuming we make it and need a 4th starter at some time. For that reason, I'd rather not exceed 165-170 IP during the reguar season. That would allow him to only make 5 or 6 more starts. I wouldn't mind skipping him a few times, or letting Sele have an occasional start.
2006-08-20 19:46:55
406.   natepurcell
I really dont want Billingsley pitching 200+ innings until he is around 24/25. Maybe I'm being too cautious.
2006-08-20 19:47:38
407.   GoBears
One thing I remember specifically about Elway's career: I think he finished 2nd all time (behind Montana) in that vaguely defined stat "come-from-behind wins." I think it means wins when the team entered the 4th quarter trailing.

And it was exciting - sorta like a Jeff Shaw save or today's 9th inning were exciting. But Elway's Broncos had to come from behind so often because they bungled their way through the first 3 quarters. It added to his legend, but really wasn't a point in his (or anyone's) favor. I thought he was going to kill Dan Reeves.

I'm not saying Elway was bad. Just that he never approached the hype. And the hype was considerable, starting in 1982.

2006-08-20 19:49:26
408.   GoBears
Oh yeah. Dodgers.

One thing I think we can all agree on -- Maddux as the #3 sure gives one a lot more confidence than Odalis or Sele or Tomko.

Heck, he's so good that he can give up 6 ernies in what, 5 innings? 6? and still win.

2006-08-20 19:49:40
409.   Disabled List
398 I've been wondering the same thing lately. A lot of those 139 innings have been heavy innings with high pitch counts. The last thing I want to see is Billingsley turn into Mark Prior.

Go all the way back to post 7, and there's a breakdown of the projected remaining starts. Billingsley looks like he'll get 7 more starts, although Grady will probably shave off at least one. Figure about 6innings per start, and that's 36 more innings. That's about the ceiling of what I'm comfortable with, and that's not even counting any potential postseason action.

I hope they figure out a way to give Billz only 5 more starts, although the way he's been pitching lately, that might end up being a difficult thing to do.

2006-08-20 19:53:38
410.   Jon Weisman
403 - Yeah, I shouldn't have taken you so literally. I just want to see you wear red.
2006-08-20 19:54:48
411.   Jon Weisman
Why is the Red Sox game only in the fifth inning, more than 2 1/2 hours after its scheduled start?
2006-08-20 19:55:15
412.   GoBears
408. Oh wait. A couple of those weren't earned.

410. Not. Gonna. Happen.

2006-08-20 19:55:46
413.   GoBears
411. They miss Derek Lowe.
2006-08-20 19:57:59
414.   StolenMonkey86
411 - they have neither Greg Maddux nor Derek Lowe, and there was rain. They had to move a tarp around
2006-08-20 19:59:42
415.   StolenMonkey86
Is there any possibilty of Kuo getting a major league start this year?
2006-08-20 20:02:36
416.   King of the Hobos
I just remembered, Billingsley pitched 9 innings in the playoffs (the 7 inning no hitter, and the 2 inning disaster). So, that increases his IP last year:

2004- 134.1 IP
2005- 155 IP
2006- 139 IP (Vegas + LA)

2006-08-20 20:04:23
417.   King of the Hobos
415 Probably, but not until our post season fate has been decided.
2006-08-20 20:04:55
418.   bhsportsguy
Since we last played the Padres, record since July 26th:

Dodgers 19-3
Rockies 12-12 8
D-Backs 11-13 9
Padres 8-15 11 1/2
Giants 8-15 11 1/2

Its one thing for the Dodgers to go on a hot streak but to have the rest of division crash too, that has made the last three weeks pretty amazing.

Another couple of weeks of this, maybe we can have a fun fall.

2006-08-20 20:05:45
419.   bhsportsguy
411 They had a one-hour rain delay.
2006-08-20 20:10:43
420.   Bob Timmermann
At 9 pm PT, you can watch the final of the Koshien High School baseball tournament for free on the web from a link in the most recent Griddle post.
2006-08-20 20:13:43
421.   bhsportsguy
Here is how the Dodgers schedule breaks down:

3 games in San Diego, off day.
3 games in Arizona, 3 games against Cincy at home, off day.
3 games against the Rockies at home, 3 games in Milwaukee, 4 games in New York, off day.
3 games in Chicago, 4 games against the Padres at home, 3 games against the Pirates at home, 3 games against the D-Backs at home, off day.
3 games in Colorado, 3 games in San Francisco.

Hard to tell when Grady will shuffle the rotation, he is not going to do something for the next 9 games. Its possible he can do something during the first part of Septemeber but then they play 10 straight games so unless they do another 6 man rotation, I'm not sure what they would accomplish.

2006-08-20 20:18:40
422.   StolenMonkey86
7, 421 - I'd expect a shuffle so that Billingsley gets to start either the 12th, 13th or 14th in Chicago. Grady said he'd try to do that so Mr. Billingsley could see his son make a major league start.
2006-08-20 20:28:38
423.   Bluebleeder87
what does Kuos record luck like?
2006-08-20 20:35:48
424.   King of the Hobos
From Rotoworld:

Manager Grady Little said he doesn't plan to start Chad Billingsley every five days in September.
Aaron Sele may be asked to make spot starts for Billingsley, even if the rookie shows few signs of fatigue. "That's our Plan A," manager Grady Little said. "It will be good for Aaron and good for Chad. We're going into September and Chad has never pitched a game in the month outside instructional league."

2006-08-20 20:45:38
425.   natepurcell

Great news. Preserve the future!

2006-08-20 21:29:32
426.   fanerman
424 - Nice to know the Dodgers are concerned also.
2006-08-20 21:30:46
427.   das411
Yknow, every time I see Papelbon pitch, I wonder how much smarter people would think Grady Little is if he had had one o' those "closers" back in 2003...
2006-08-20 21:32:03
428.   Daniel Zappala
I have been away today but has anyone else commented that the Dodger save leader, Saito, has 14? That's really low for 66 wins. Baez has 9. A few others with one or two.
2006-08-20 21:36:19
429.   CanuckDodger
424 -- It isn't true that Billingsley has only pitched in instructional league in September. He pitched in the Southern League playoffs last year.

I do agree that measures should be taken from now on to limit Billingsley's total innings, but instead of Sele taking starts in September, I would really like to see Kuo get the chance to show what he can do pitching on a starter's schedule in the majors. I would even like to see Hanrahan get a start or two, which would of course mean putting him back on the 40-man roster.

2006-08-20 21:48:52
430.   KG16
429 - that number does seem rather low, especially since the Dodgers only have one complete game.

But looking at the numbers, they've only had 27 save opportunities.

Guess they haven't had that many close games.

2006-08-20 21:49:24
431.   KG16
430 - er, that should be 428, not 429
2006-08-20 21:54:01
432.   bhsportsguy
At this point, I would be very very very very surprised to see anyone outside of Penny, Lowe, Maddux, Billingsley, Hendrickson or Sele get a start until the playoff situation is settled.
2006-08-20 22:05:22
433.   GoBears
432. Or someone gets injured. The question then is whether someone comes up to spot start, or Tomko or Dessens get the call.
2006-08-20 22:06:30
434.   Underbruin
403 - I'm not quite sure that's entirely fair to Elway. He's the 3rd-all time league leader in completions and passing yards, and I think he's top 5 in touchdowns as well. I think it's more a function of the fact that Elway was playing during an era of several very talented QBs - Marino, Young, Favre, Aikman, Jim Kelly (who had a rather Elway-like career minus the two rings to finish it), etc.

Heck, take Jim Everett - he finished first in the league in passing touchdowns in '88 and '89 for the Rams, but didn't even make it to the Pro Bowl either year (rather high INT numbers, though his other stats were very good).

2006-08-20 22:09:19
435.   King of the Hobos
Unfortunately, I believe 432 is correct. However, if Hanrahan can finish the season strong (73, 69, 75 game scores in his last 3 starts, 3-4 more scheduled starts), I wouldn't be surprised to see him added to the roster. He's a free agent at the end of the season if he's not added to the roster, and I'd expect him to leave.
2006-08-20 22:09:58
436.   Underbruin
433 - Possible spot starter - Hanrahan, maybe?
2006-08-20 22:14:59
437.   Linkmeister
411 I'm sure you've figured it out by now, but there was a 57-minute rain delay where we viewers were all treated to somebody and Kruk regaling us with baseball news instead. Kruk thinks the Dodgers are the real deal "if the bullpen holds up."


Imagine my surprise to turn to ESPN after watching two hours of news to see Rivera strike out Hinske and get a comebacker from Mirabelli to end a bases-loaded threat in the bottom of the ninth.

2006-08-20 22:19:15
438.   Underbruin
435/436 - Beat me to it. :)
2006-08-20 22:30:45
439.   Greg S
Kruk thinks the Dodgers are the real deal "if the bullpen holds up."
And when it was mentioned that they're depending on rookies Broxton and Saito, Kruk's comment was "Young. Very very young".
Made me feel better about my age.
2006-08-20 22:37:22
440.   the OZ
Dusty Baker is on suicide watch after the Cubs trade Neifi!.

Yes, the punctuation is intentional.

2006-08-20 22:37:42
441.   thinkingblue

Oh geez. We're becoming so whimpy with pitchers now a days. C'MON, in the playoffs, who are you more comfortable with, Billz or Sele? Billz of course!!

Please, I hate that "he's never done it before," argument, you're going to have to do it someday, might as well start when you're in the big leagues.

And besides, we're probably still gonna have to win in September, and we can't go with Sele AND Hendrickson if we're going to win.

Ok, I'm not saying make him throw 60 more innings, but if you're going to limit Billingsley's starts, he better be used in the playoffs if we get there, don't put Hendy in front of him.

2006-08-20 22:39:13
442.   thinkingblue

Seriously, is there a better 8th and 9th combo in the national league? In baseball?

2006-08-20 22:40:29
443.   StolenMonkey86
437 - Francona let that idiot thing in 2004 get to his head. Not pinch hit for a guy who hits below the mendoza line with 2 outs?
2006-08-20 22:42:04
444.   StolenMonkey86
Duaner Sanchez got hurt, so I'll say nobody close
2006-08-20 22:44:09
445.   gibsonhobbs88
441 - I agree. Bills has more talent and better stuff, keep him to 6 innings a start but until they clinch a playoff spot, he is our #4 starter. I was hoping Sele and Hendy would platoon if any thing to be done. Like was suggested before Hendy on the road, Sele at home. That 9th inning had me tense, but Saito came through. He gave Bonds a cautious walk even with loaded bases, better to give up one than 4. 2 out of 3 from the no-cals, let's see if we can distance ourselves a little farther from the Friars now!!
2006-08-20 22:45:21
446.   StolenMonkey86
Papelbon's ERA got up to 1

Good news for Verlander, Weaver, Liriano

2006-08-20 22:45:25
447.   Bob Timmermann

I doubt Javy Lopez would have fared better than Mirabelli.

The big mistake Francona made was trying to have Youkilis sacrifice.

2006-08-20 22:46:03
448.   Linkmeister
443 Well, who've they got as a catcher if they pinch-hit for Mirabelli?

In the 10th first Giambi and then Posada hit home runs for the Yankees. All of Red Sox Nation is on suicide watch.

2006-08-20 22:46:34
449.   Bob Timmermann
Also, I'm not a strict anti-sacrifice guy, but Youkilis obviously wasn't good at it and Rivera is a good fielder and tough to bunt.

Francona was asking Youkilis to perform the wrong task at the wrong time.

2006-08-20 22:47:33
450.   Linkmeister
449 Particularly when it was Ortiz on second.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2006-08-20 22:47:36
451.   Steve
Saito is older than Kruk, and Kruk is pretty old for a single celled organism.
2006-08-20 22:48:42
452.   the OZ
442 Hmm...interesting question.

Proctor and Rivera?
Shields and K-Rod?
Nathan and Reyes? (is Reyes even a setup man?)

2006-08-20 22:49:06
453.   StolenMonkey86
447, 449 - that and what happened to the Braves today in the 9th, it just hasn't been a good day to bunt

yesterday was an awesome day to bunt, though

2006-08-20 22:50:14
454.   StolenMonkey86
451 - single-celled organism? I was pretty sure Kruk had a bit more mass on him than Broxton
2006-08-20 22:51:02
455.   gibsonhobbs88
Regarding Jon's post, New Yorkers like to worry and start speculating way before anything is really decided. The Mets have the power in the lineup the Dodgers do not have and they have speed in their lineup as well with Reyes and Beltran. Both defenses do not hurt their teams, I say that is a wash. Earlier in the season, the Mets had better healthier starters, but now that category is more a Dodger strength. Bullpen-closer for Mets more experienced but Saito has been consistent. Middle relief a wash. Dodgers seem to matchup better with the Mets than the Cards, though that seems to be a mental barrier.
2006-08-20 22:51:09
456.   StolenMonkey86
451- no, Kruk is 45
2006-08-20 22:52:56
457.   StolenMonkey86
455 - so you're saying the Mets are the most capable of killing their own rallies
2006-08-20 22:52:59
458.   the OZ
456 45 what? Metric tons? Cubic meters?
2006-08-20 22:53:26
459.   Bob Timmermann
Joe Nathan's principal setup man is Juan Rincon.
2006-08-20 22:53:54
460.   StolenMonkey86
458 - my apologies. I meant years old, in response to

Saito is older than Kruk

2006-08-20 22:54:33
461.   StolenMonkey86
not that metric tons and cubic meters aren't accurate
2006-08-20 22:56:08
462.   D4P
Steve - Why is the passage to the catacombs currently sealed off...?
2006-08-20 22:57:09
463.   the OZ
460 I know. I was trying to be funny. Emphasis on "trying".

459 Thanks. Nathan and Rincon are another good bullpen duo. I think the strength of a bullpen can generally be measured by the quality of its second-best reliever, so it's an interesting discussion.

2006-08-20 22:59:31
464.   Steve
Saito is 52 though. He gave up Sadaharu Oh's homerun #462
2006-08-20 23:03:01
465.   thinkingblue

Those seem to be the only 3 teams that can compete with what we have in the 8th and 9th. But certainly IMO, we have the best 8th, 9th inning combo in the national league, so yes Kruk, we're fine there.

But what I really like about our combo, is that their K numbers are both off the charts. Does anyone compare with our relievers K numbers?

2006-08-20 23:03:35
466.   King of the Hobos
The Twins have the best bullpen ERA at 3.06. Mets are second with 3.22. The Twins have plenty of guys that could pass as their second best reliever: Rincon, Reyes, Neshek, Guerrier, Crain.
2006-08-20 23:08:03
467.   Greg Brock
The Dodgers relief ERA is still skewed by the Carter and Baez "experience", while the Mets bullpen ERA is better because they had a healthy and productive Sanchez earlier in the year. I'd love to know the ERA breakdowns since July.
2006-08-20 23:08:21
468.   StolenMonkey86
I think that's a different Takashi Saito
2006-08-20 23:09:28
469.   StolenMonkey86
467 - I'd like to see the Devil-Ray adjusted ERA that removes all record of Baez, Carter, Hendrickson
2006-08-20 23:10:25
470.   Andrew Shimmin
462- The entire alternate media empire is kaput. I suspect villainy.
2006-08-20 23:13:28
471.   Steve
that removes all record of Baez, Carter, Hendrickson

But not that fall. That was good stuff. Leave that in.

2006-08-20 23:15:29
472.   StolenMonkey86
471- "He pitched for the Dodgers?"
"No, he was a mid-inning entertainer."
"But why were there men on first and third?"
"It was part of the act."
2006-08-20 23:25:47
473.   King of the Hobos
The Dodgers ERA minus the Devil Rays contributions is 4.14, which is an improvement of only 0.1. My math could be wrong, but it seems like Baez, Carter, and Hendrickson haven't exactly crippled the team much.
2006-08-20 23:28:09
474.   Greg Brock
473 I wasn't really talking about the Devil Rays contributions (or lack thereof) as opposed to relief ERA since July.

Unless you were responding to someone else, in which case, disregard this.

2006-08-20 23:29:29
475.   Steve
Tim Hamulack : Dodger Ray pitchers :: Mike Edwards : Ja(y)sons
2006-08-20 23:58:28
476.   Steve
462 --

It's a jungle out there
Disorder and confusion everywhere
No one seems to care
Well I do
Hey, who's in charge here?
It's a jungle out there
Poison in the very air we breathe
Do you know what's in the water that you drink?
Well I do, and it's amazing
People think I'm crazy, 'cause I worry all the time
If you paid attention, you'd be worried too
You better pay attention
Or this world we love so much might just kill you
I could be wrong now, but I don't think so
It's a jungle out there

2006-08-21 05:42:47
477.   bluetahoe
In 127 PA's with Tampa Bay, potential perennial all star, Dionner Navarro, has posted the following.....

BA - .261
OBP - .331
SLG - .339
OPS - .670

2006-08-21 08:31:29
478.   StolenMonkey86
The LA Times answers a question we all had earlier:

"They keep winning though, and could become the first team since the 1987 St. Louis Cardinals to win their division while finishing last in home runs. The Dodgers won a World Series title in 1965 despite finishing last in the NL in home runs."

2006-08-21 08:42:15
479.   StolenMonkey86
Odalis Perez update:

Numbers for the Royals
GS: 4
IP: 22
WHIP: 1.23
K/9: 6.95
BB/9: 3.27
K/BB: 2.125
HR/9: 2.05
unearned runs: 0
ERA: 5.32
W-L: 0-1

Basically, he's almost good except he serves up homers like it's Chunky Monkey on Ben & Jerry's free ice cream day.

2006-08-21 08:45:08
480.   thinkblue0

not too bad for someone that young who should be our backup catcher.

2006-08-21 08:46:15
481.   StolenMonkey86
He even delivered a quality start on August 12th against the Indians,

6 IP, 2H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 6 K

2006-08-21 08:46:51
482.   das411
From waaaaay earlier, the discussion about players who have actually lived up to all of the hype...can I nominate that dude who won his 346th career game yesterday?
2006-08-21 09:01:39
483.   Eric Enders
482 Doesn't really qualify, as he didn't have the requisite hype level to begin with.
2006-08-21 09:10:30
484.   Gen3Blue
I'm interested in this 20 year old catcher at Vero, Juan Apodaca. He was 19 at the start of the season, and seemed to slowly catch up with pitchers at each stop. But he popped 3 homers yesterday. Does anyone know of any write-ups about him on the web?
2006-08-21 09:22:37
485.   Eric Stephen
Is anyone going to tonight's game in San Diego? I will be there with Dodger blue on, I believe in section 304 (I left my ticket at home and forgot the exact seat location).

A Dodger Thoughts remote outing!

2006-08-21 09:54:59
486.   Bob Timmermann
The City of San Diego has a restraining order against me, so I won't be there.
2006-08-21 10:04:29
487.   Eric Enders
Meanwhile, Extra Innings seems to have a restraining order against the Dodgers, as they're showing only one game in the next week.

Which means you SoCal folks must be getting pretty much every game on KCAL this week.

2006-08-21 10:07:05
488.   das411
483 - While it was before my time, everything I've read sems to indicate Clemens was "the next (Nolan Ryan/Walter Johnson/Kerry Wood)" back when he came up in '86 and took the Sawks as far as Game 6...and now, twenty years later, he is 8th ALL TIME in wins and second in strikeouts.

Think of all the Doc Goodens and Mark Priors that have flamed out over that same time period...maybe that way we can break 500 before Jon resets the post count.

FYI Shulman is doing the ESPN2 'cast of the Yanks/Sox game, for all who can stand one more game of those two teams.

2006-08-21 10:07:15
489.   Bob Timmermann
Tonight and Saturday are on KCAL. The other four games are on Prime Ticket.

Next Sunday's game will be on KCAL.

2006-08-21 10:09:13
490.   Eric Stephen
487 The Padres don't help the Extra Innings cause, as their games are televised locally by Channel 4 San Diego, rather than a regional sports network required by EI.
2006-08-21 10:10:09
491.   Eric Enders
"The other four games are on Prime Ticket"

While I'm not disputing this factually, it doesn't make any sense. Every Prime Ticket game is also on Extra Innings unless it's in the Saturday or Sunday blackut period.

So either Prime Ticket or E.I. has made a scheduling error, it would seem.

2006-08-21 10:10:25
492.   Bob Timmermann
Clemens wasn't considered the next Walter Johnson until 1986. He was considered to be a top prospect in 1984, but he got hurt.

People thought he was special after this game:
where he K'd 15 and had no walks.

At Texas, he was a star, but so was Greg Swindell.

2006-08-21 10:10:54
493.   Eric Stephen
Tonight's game is on ESPN2, no?

It's blacked out in San Diego, but what about LA?

2006-08-21 10:12:25
494.   Eric Enders
490 Right, the Padres have always been problematic on EI.

I guess the silver lining is, the one game I will actually get to watch this week will be an extremely rare Vinny road game on Extra Innings (Wednesday). Might be the first such game of the year, actually.

2006-08-21 10:13:39
495.   Eric Enders
492 In college Clemens was the third-best pitcher on his own team, after Swindell and Calvin Schiraldi.

He didn't get the big-time hype until after he had already become an MLB star by striking out Phil Bradley.

2006-08-21 10:15:13
496.   Eric Stephen
494 Extra Innings had the Dodger feed, with Vinny, on Friday night. He really enjoyed the "Beat LA" got him whipped up in penant fever.
2006-08-21 10:15:56
497.   Eric Enders
496 Duh. I'd forgotten all about that. I even watched it and everything. ;)
2006-08-21 10:16:10
498.   Johnson
493 Thanks for pointing that out! The game isn't blacked out in Northern California anwyay, and it's going to be nice to watch. Don't you hate it when that one weekend that you actually "have a life" is the one weekend that you could have watched three Dodger games on TV (even if it is with Krukow and Kuiper announcing) and you had to miss them?
2006-08-21 10:17:46
499.   Eric Enders
Thanks, Johnson, for foiling our plot to set a new record for consecutive posts by people with the same first name!
2006-08-21 10:17:54
500.   Bob Timmermann
My cable system says they will be showing the Dodgers game on ESPN2 tonight as well as KCAL.

There's always something weird about games from San Diego. The Padres aren't part of EI because they have a dopey cable contract.

I don't know if there is some sort of contractual thing that keeps EI from running the two LA area Fox channels simultaneously.

I'm really just guessing.

No, I'm really just wildly speculating.

Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2006-08-21 10:20:03
501.   Eric Stephen
499 I assume his full name is Eric Johnson
2006-08-21 10:20:48
502.   Eric Enders
500 EI shows Dodger and Angel games simultaneously all the time. I've never paid attention to whether it's actually shown both local FOX channels simultaneously, however.
2006-08-21 10:23:51
503.   Eric Stephen
500, 502 FSN West and FSN Prime Ticket are very often shown simultaneously on Extra Innings.

In San Diego, I get FSN West but not 2 (Prime Ticket). But, my FSN doesn't have Angel games...I have to go to EI for that. At least I'm not blacked out though (although going without Hudler is not a bad thing).

2006-08-21 10:47:15
504.   Johnson
501 Tragically, no. But I'll say it is if it will make you feel any better.

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