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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
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Progress Report on Gagne (Progress Being Relative)
2006-08-21 21:10
by Jon Weisman

Ken Gurnick of checked in with Eric Gagne today. Just remember, if your glass isn't half full, maybe the answer is a smaller glass.

Gagne also has a 2005 elbow nerve operation and a 1997 Tommy John elbow reconstruction on his medical record, but he said the disk injury was the most painful thing he's ever experienced.

"I don't know what I did, no idea, but one day I'm on the floor, throwing up and crying like a baby," he said. "The worst night I've ever had, by far. Dr. [Robert] Watkins said it was really bad, but he said he got it all and he's confident I'll come back.

"I've already seen a lot of progress. I've gone from throwing up on the floor to walking, and now to almost running on a treadmill. Once in a while, I get a little pain down to the butt, but it doesn't go down my leg to my foot like it did when it happened. It's just a matter of time. There's no quick fix."

Gagne is six weeks into a back rehab he was told would take from three to five months. He said he will be working in the offseason with Phoenix-based physical therapist Brett Fischer, who helped Randy Johnson rebound from back surgery and stresses core exercises.

Gurnick also reported that infielder Julio Lugo isn't 100 percent - and hasn't been since he arrived in Los Angeles. According to trainer Stan Johnston, Lugo is suffering from a ligament injury near his right middle fingertip that prevents him from fully straightening the finger (which, sadly for him, presumably makes Lugo safe to heckle). The Dodgers, bless their hearts, are hoping surgery isn't required.

* * *

Dodger pitcher Chad Billingsley looked extra sharp the first three innings tonight, before leaving with the score tied, 2-2. He was going after the strike zone with tenacity and oomph, hitting his spots often and barely missing on other pitches. With two out in the bottom of the fourth, Billingsley had lowered his season ERA to 3.00 exactly (24 earned runs in 72 innings).

Billingsley struck out five in five innings and would have been in line for a victory had J.D. Drew gotten low enough to catch a dying quail by Todd Walker to drive in the tying run with two out in the fifth. Alas ...

Comments (108)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-21 21:38:13
1.   bhsportsguy
All I can say is that its good thing they lose to everybody else.
2006-08-21 21:42:32
2.   Bob Timmermann
At least it's the last trip to San Diego.
2006-08-21 21:47:14
3.   bhsportsguy
2 We still have not beaten them at home.
2006-08-21 21:53:35
4.   Bob Timmermann
One rationalization at a time.
2006-08-21 22:03:44
5.   bhsportsguy
Just something to chew on, after this series with the Padres, the Dodgers have 35 games left, and their record against the other teams they play against outside the Padres (4 games at home), is 39-21. They only have losing records against 2 teams, the Cubs (1-2) and the Mets (1-2).
2006-08-21 22:07:37
6.   Bluebleeder87
i'm just glad i didn't witness Baez's 5 run blow out to them, I swear that's one thing that really what's me to beat the madres!
2006-08-21 22:09:53
7.   Suffering Bruin
I've had a membership to the Wooden Center for five months now so I thought tonight would be a good night to break it in. I watched my son do some indoor rock climbing and he had a blast. I think he finally found a sport he could do regularly, though it's sure to scare the bejeesus out of the wife and I.

And I come home and find the Dodgers lost. I wasn't watching. I blame myself.

2006-08-21 22:13:29
8.   Eric Enders
I'm sure it was hashed over in the game thread which I haven't read yet, but I sure hope Drew lost that ball in the lights. If not, it was one of the more pathetic attempts at a catch I've seen.

Two runs, one on a wild pitch and the other on an error (yes, I know it wasn't official). Nice outing for Chad.

2006-08-21 22:17:35
9.   Bluebleeder87
mother nature/my body is tealing me it's time to go to sleep so by by's

Drew makes me mad some times!! (Jon just letting out some anger)

2006-08-21 22:32:20
10.   Jon Weisman
7 - I had just re-taken up rock climbing at Rockcreation in West L.A. before my daughter was born - I would love to get into it again. Kids need to get older, though.
2006-08-21 22:38:48
11.   Steve
I can straighten my fingers.
2006-08-21 22:43:33
12.   Bob Timmermann
I took up rock falling once.
2006-08-21 22:50:37
13.   D4P
Kids need to get older, though

Time makes you boulder
Children get older

2006-08-21 22:51:26
14.   Linkmeister
I never did get the game on ESPN2. I wonder who I complain to. The paper had it scheduled, the cable company had its listing at the bottom of the screen as "Major League Baseball" from 4:00-7:00pm, but all I got was ESPNEws.
2006-08-21 22:59:04
15.   Greg Brock
7 If it makes you feel better, I blame you too.
2006-08-21 23:06:28
16.   Bob Timmermann
I blame Charlie Dressen for not bringing in Carl Erskine instead of Ralph Branca.
2006-08-21 23:09:46
17.   StolenMonkey86
Just because I'm really cool like that, I've tracked game scores of the current Dodger starters in their Dodger starts. Looking at the time series plot, it's remarkable to see the improvement in Billingsley's starts, but he does tend to fall now and then, and this looks like that fall start, having gone from a team high 79 to 49. He generally rebounds well after a big falloff, though, so I'd expect him to continue to be successful.

The most telling graphs may be the boxplot of Lowe, Penny, Sele, Hendrickson, and Billingsley. Perhaps most alarming was that Hendrickson's Q3 is lower than the median for the other four starters.

I also made histogram charts, centered at 50, and two pictures stood out. Brad Penny's looks like a left-handed index finger pointing (with thumb sticking out), and Chad's looks like it's flipping the bird.

2006-08-21 23:19:40
18.   Greg Brock
I made a diorama of Mike Davis's walk in the '88 WS.

You do a lot better work than I do.

2006-08-21 23:23:14
19.   StolenMonkey86
I'm sure the diorama was more interesting.

I just played around with MINITAB.

2006-08-21 23:23:35
20.   natepurcell
So from the dodger notes i see that Blake Johnson has been shut down for the season with a sore elbow.

ummm, thats the 2nd pitching prospect the dodgers have dealt away that have come down with injury for the team that acquired them.

I dont know what to make of it except its probably just a coincidence.

2006-08-21 23:24:13
21.   Greg Brock
19 Sorry, I abandoned MINITAB as soon as I finished applied statistics.

There was much rejoicing.

2006-08-21 23:24:31
22.   natepurcell
stupid question probably but where can you find game scores or how are they calculated?

please dont kill me.

2006-08-21 23:25:40
23.   StolenMonkey86
22- Why, Wikipedia of course

2006-08-21 23:26:28
24.   Steve
22 -- How far are you standing from Julio Lugo?
2006-08-21 23:27:31
25.   natepurcell
okay umm.... I need context with those numbers. what is good? what is average? what sucks?
2006-08-21 23:27:51
26.   Greg Brock
22 Go to the ESPN box scores for each game. At the bottom, there is a pitcher's section.

Game score is the last entry.

Now I must kill you.

2006-08-21 23:28:33
27.   natepurcell

Im pretty far away from him so I think I am safe from your sniper bullet....or remote control car bomb.

2006-08-21 23:29:50
28.   Greg Brock
Nate, put down that iced tea. Don't drink it...Just...Just don't.
2006-08-21 23:31:36
29.   natepurcell
oh lookie, Mark Hendrickson has the 6th best mlb game score of the season with an 85 when he pitched on 4/6 against the Orioles.
2006-08-21 23:32:43
30.   natepurcell
i mean 6th in the AL.

still, hes amazing.

2006-08-21 23:33:57
31.   Greg Brock
Thank God that nobody has developed life scores yet. I don't want any part of that metric.
2006-08-21 23:36:21
32.   StolenMonkey86
25 - Honestly, I'm not sure. I think you have to do this relatively, really, so here are a few highlights

Worst game by a Dodger Starter this year:

Derek Lowe against the Twins (9)

Best games by a Dodger Starter this year:

Chad Billingsley goes 7 innings with 9 K's (79)

Maddux's ESPN Sunday Night Gem (78)

I generally take 50 to be a pretty good average (the starter did no harm). Below 40 is bad, below 20 is Odalis Perez territory. Above 60 is good, above 70 is really nice.

2006-08-21 23:37:17
33.   StolenMonkey86
29 - yep, and he hasn't topped 62 as a Dodger
2006-08-21 23:38:31
34.   StolenMonkey86
Hendrickson has had an average of around 43 as a Dodger, and he did not get extra points for that fall.
2006-08-21 23:42:39
35.   natepurcell
Hendrickson needs to be traded this offseason.
2006-08-21 23:45:58
36.   Greg Brock
Tell Wayne Krivsky he's a LOOGY. Wayne'll take him.
2006-08-21 23:46:36
37.   StolenMonkey86
35- As long as we don't get someone crappy. I like the idea of Kuo as 5th starter.
2006-08-21 23:46:54
38.   natepurcell
Who do we want from the Reds?

Ill take Jay Bruce although I dont think even Krivsky wants a loogy that badly.

2006-08-21 23:48:16
39.   StolenMonkey86
Dodger Blues makes
me feel a whole lot better
when the Dodgers lose.
2006-08-21 23:48:29
40.   Greg Brock
I'll take that rather large fellow with the strikeouts and walks. He also hits home runs.

His name is Adam something or other.

2006-08-21 23:48:57
41.   StolenMonkey86
38 - can we get David Ross back?
2006-08-21 23:53:35
42.   StolenMonkey86
With Colletti, I have to think either Royce Clayton or Todd Hollandsworth.
2006-08-21 23:54:09
43.   StolenMonkey86
Verlander got win number 15 tonight
2006-08-21 23:55:23
44.   Bob Timmermann
Drew lost the ball in the lights.
Or at least that's his story on

The tying run scored the following inning when right fielder J.D. Drew lost Todd Walker's sinking line drive in the lights, the ball rolling for a double that scored former Dodger Dave Roberts after he had singled and stole second base.

"Lost it completely," said Drew. "I got a good read on it and I saw it until the last 15 feet. I was almost in dive mode, but didn't know what I could do with it and made a last stab at it. There's not a lot you can do. There's only a few times you don't get the glove on it, and that was one of them.

"It was hit perfect and hung right in the middle. I stared at it. He reached out and flared it off the end of the bat. A line drive under or a popup above, you can see."

2006-08-21 23:58:20
45.   StolenMonkey86
Dodger Blues jokingly suggests the altitude change.
2006-08-21 23:59:24
46.   Andrew Shimmin
31- Some one did. The bad part: I don't fair well. The good part: those who do, "typically receive 50-100 (sometimes more) responses whenever [they] post personal ads." So, you know, bitter with the sweet, and all that.

2006-08-22 00:04:47
47.   Greg Brock
There is no way in hell I'm taking that test.
2006-08-22 00:18:44
48.   Andrew Shimmin
It's not a test. Well, it sort of is, but not a formal one. It's nice, after a fashion, to see someone be so proud of a B.A. And, really, how often does one meet a woman who's been rated hotter than 86% of the notoriously babe-y Hot or Not dot com filles?

I won't make you click over, but I think it's funny.

2006-08-22 00:22:56
49.   Greg Brock
I clicked over. From what I can tell:

She's slim, while most people are fat.
She's smart, while most others are stupid.

And so humble!

2006-08-22 00:44:23
50.   fanerman
So Nate, how was bowling? Are you a bowler?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-22 01:09:11
51.   bhsportsguy

With yet another article about the genius that is Ned, despite what those may think and I believe no matter what happens from this point on, Ned (and to no small degree, Grady) have become a darling of the mass media and is now safely secured as the Dodger GM.

Not to discount what he has done but I felt from the time he was hired, Ned has done a great job with the media, he has been fortunate that most arrows were aimed at the McCourts or some of the players but nonetheless, the national perception of the franchise has changed and Ned gets the shine of that change.

2006-08-22 01:12:47
52.   CanuckDodger
Tony Jackson really hates Billingsley. A couple weeks ago he said that Billingsley wasn't pitching like he belonged in the majors, even though Billingsley at the time had clearly been the Dodgers' best starter since the All-Star break (and continues to be so, with 10 earned runs given up in 46 innings since the break), and in the new Daily News Jackson says that the loss on Monday was mostly Billingsley's fault, because of his "usual wildness" and astounding pitch count of 95 through five innings. Wildness? One walk and Billingsley was supposedly being squeezed badly by the umpire. And has Jackson ever seen Penny pitch? 95 pitches in five innings is pretty standard for Penny, but nobody in the media complains about Penny's pitch counts. And one of Billingsley's two runs surrendered was clearly Drew's fault.
2006-08-22 08:39:27
53.   Eric Enders
52 I thought Jackson's shot at Billingsley last week was inaccurate to the point of bordering on unethical. But I don't see much wrong with what he wrote last night. Billingsley was wild, walk total notwithstanding; look at his ball to strike ratio. And 95 really is an obscene number of pitches to throw in 5 innings, whether Brad Penny does it frequently or not. (And I don't think he does.)
2006-08-22 08:59:29
54.   Jon Weisman
53 - I feel somewhere in between. Jackson praised Chad's first three innings, but I thought his use of the word "staggering" to describe the final pitch count was a bit much. If Drew catches the ball, Billingsley is on pace to do six innings in about 105-110 pitches, which is pretty reasonable.

I think Jackson editorializes in his game stories more than any other Dodger beat reporter.

2006-08-22 09:10:54
55.   Blu2
Can't complain too much about last night's game even though we lost. Bad part is that it was winnable, we just needed a couple of hits. Anytime our pitchers hold the opposition to 4 runs, if we lose the blame is on the offense.
Might as well indulge in a little off season fantasy:
1. Don't sign Nomar; Loney is as ready as he's ever going to be.
2. Resign Lofton IF he will be the left handed pinch hitter and 5th outfielder and play for $2M. Will any other club offer him more money and a starting spot?
3. Do anything short of murder to lose J D Drew; He is now a 4th outfielder in quality.
4. Sign Soriano for left field, move Ethier to right, Bring up Kemp for center. If/when Kent retires, move Soriano to second base if he's willing and if management thinks that is the best deal.
5. LaRoche and Betamitt to fight it out for third and backup.
6. Dump Hendrickson.
7. One year contract to Maddux.
8. Hall can stay if he changes his attitude; if not, let him go and sign a backup for Martin. Dave Ross would be nice. Or Piazza!
9. Sign Schmitt/Zito/Whomever.
10. If we lose Drew and Nomar and half of Lofton's salary, our payroll should be about the same. Works for me.
2006-08-22 09:17:30
56.   Eric Enders
52 "And has Jackson ever seen Penny pitch? 95 pitches in five innings is pretty standard for Penny, but nobody in the media complains about Penny's pitch counts."

Brad Penny has thrown 95+ pitches in his first five innings in just four of his 26 starts. And the media usually complained about his pitch counts.

5/6: 105 pitches through 5
"Control problems cost starter Brad Penny a chance at his third victory. The right-hander walked six while striking out four and giving up seven hits before leaving in the sixth with one out and a runner at third." - Gurnick

5/23: 104 pitches
"It was an ordeal, requiring 104 pitches over only five scoreless innings, even though he walked just one, struck out five and allowed four hits.
"Actually, [the back] felt pretty good tonight," said Penny. "The pitch count was just too high...." --Gurnick

6/3: 103 pitches
"'He met up with some difficulty out there today, with all those foul balls getting hit off him,' said manager Grady Little about Penny's pitch count, which reached 112 after six innings." -Gurnick

7/16: 97 pitches

2006-08-22 09:22:10
57.   Eric Enders
55 I could see re-signing Nomar for one year and having some sort of platoon situation. Give Nomar 400 AB, which should help keep him off the DL, and give Loney about 300 AB as a part-time first baseman, outfielder, and pinch hitter.

Doubtful if he would agree to a third consecutive one-year contract, though.

2006-08-22 09:23:57
58.   the OZ
A list of outfielders with OPS .010+ higher than JD Drew (not adjusted for park effects), min 250 PA:

A Jones

Yeah, he's a 4th outfielder, at best.

2006-08-22 09:34:25
59.   StolenMonkey86
but nobody in the media complains about Penny's pitch counts.

Just wait. Someone told Plaschke about OBP for one article, so he's bound to bring up pitch counts in praising Maddux and bashing Penny.

2006-08-22 09:40:28
60.   StolenMonkey86
I think Ross won the starting job in Cincy, but just has health issues. I wonder what his paycheck will be after arbitration in the offseason too.

What's really funny about Ross this month is that he's hitting .189, yet he has an OPS of .889.

7-37, 9 BB, 3 2B, 3 HR will do that

2006-08-22 09:42:43
61.   StolenMonkey86
Don't forget how much Ross depends on the Great American Ballpark.

Home: .289/.396/.807 12 HR
Away: .268/.351/.451 3 HR

It's like Cincy became the heir to Coors

2006-08-22 09:43:35
62.   StolenMonkey86
102 PA at home
96 PA away
2006-08-22 09:44:42
63.   StolenMonkey86
62 - .802 is a good OPS for a catcher, though
2006-08-22 09:47:23
64.   gibsonhobbs88
5 & 6 - All I know is that since that third game of the season that Lance Carter/Baez combined to lose that 5-0 9th inning lead, we have won only one game since against the Padres. The Padres are becoming our "Temple of Doom" team in the west. Anything that can go wrong seems to when we play them. Wild pitch with bases loaded, sure hits getting deflected by pitchers legs into outs, balls lost in the lights, Billingsley all of a sudden pitching to a "suddenly shrinking strike zone", bad defensive infielders suddenly channeling Graig Nettles and no name pitchers called up with sad looking stats and then pitch like Juan Marichal in his prime. That was a winnable game, where a break here or there became the difference.
Now we face a struggling Peavy who will tonight probably pitch a two hitter and strike out 14 while Hendy will be gone by the 5th.
2006-08-22 09:50:38
65.   Bob Timmermann
Jake Peavy hasn't been struggling too much recently.
2006-08-22 09:51:42
66.   gibsonhobbs88
1 - Problem is the Padres play 5 times over the head against the Dodgers but roll over like dogs when they play the other western teams. Steve Sax referred to old Jack Murphy as our "Temple of Doom" and it looks like this year is becoming the new reincarnation of the Temple of Doom though we are worst at home against SD. Cards and Padres are two teams I least want to face in a playoff. They seem to have our number.
2006-08-22 09:56:48
67.   gibsonhobbs88
65- I was referring to Peavy's overall season 6-12, and a much higher ERA than last year. He's been a disappointment in the Padres camp this year for sure.
2006-08-22 09:56:59
68.   Bob Timmermann
But how can the Padres have some sort of psychological sway over the Dodgers when the Dodgers have almost entirely different players from last year? And even significantly different players from when they played the last time at Dodger Stadium?

Or do exiting players bequeath such feelings to the new players?

There is a rational part of me that says that professional players are not "psyched out" by any team. The rational part of me says that one team happens to be better than another team in terms of talent or has some particular advantage over one opponent's particular skills.

2006-08-22 09:58:44
69.   jystakes
Just a random thought, but is anyone else super-excited for a potential Glavine v. Maddux matchup if the Dodgers continue on this path to the playoffs and meet the Mets? I know Glavine is probably their number 1 or 2 starter (depending on pedro's health), but if it could somehow happen? wow.
2006-08-22 09:58:52
70.   Gen3Blue
I notice Loney has a bunch of hits the last few games in Vegas and has his average up to .380 again. I don't know what to do with him, he is young and has a chance to be a very rare hitter. I know we need more power and now. But I would be shattered to see him traded until we know for sure and I think a bat like that needs to play every day.
2006-08-22 10:01:16
71.   gibsonhobbs88
68-Or "Murphy's law" enters into it, when every break goes to one team or like the last time in LA, the Dodgers were still in the post all-star funk with our best hitters injured and not playing and they couldn't score runs if they were spotted runners on 2nd and 3rd with no one out. Last night goes under the Murphy's law rule, I think.
2006-08-22 10:02:01
72.   the OZ
68 in the same vein as Bob's comment, I heard or read somewhere about how the 2006 Padres are struggling to hit at home, much like their first season at PETCO. The person commented that the Padres have been at PETCO for three years, so they should know how to hit there by now.

The problem with that logic is that 5 of the Padres' 8 starting position players are new to the team (the catchers, Cameron, Barfield, Gonzales, whoever played third this season).

2006-08-22 10:04:57
73.   the OZ
70 Loney and Ethier seem to be made from the same mold as far as their hitting: line drives everywhere.


What's the over/under date of Loney's first MLB home run?

2006-08-22 10:12:53
74.   KG16
55 - Betimett can play 2B, right? If so, I'd look into moving Kent.

One wonders what the Dodgers could get for Drew and Kent.

2006-08-22 10:20:14
75.   the OZ
74 Well, they got Hendrickson, Baez, Carter, and Lugo for Guzman, Pedroza, Tiffany, Navarro, Seo, and Jackson.

So, I'm guessing Gary Majewski and Livan Hernandez for Drew and Kent, respectively.

2006-08-22 10:22:14
76.   Paul Scott
73 Loney and Ethier seem to be made from the same mold as far as their hitting: line drives everywhere.

Loney LD% - 13.2
Ethier LD% - 23.0

Loney has too few PAs to draw any real conclusions, but as things are now the two could not be much further apart. If they held these numbers to qualified PAs, Loney would be dead last in LD% by over a full percentage point and Ethier would be 8th.

2006-08-22 10:24:37
77.   Blu2
74 Personally I'd take Kent over Drew everytime but I guarantee some fool GM will think Drew is younger and is sure to snap back and have a good season for him if he trades for Drew, and that would look good on the GM's resume. So I think Drew can be moved, Kent can't. Now if we still had a prospect with a stratospheric potential like Guzman, a Drew-Guzman package would sell like hotcakes and surely get a good return... Maybe Drew-Houlton?
2006-08-22 10:25:35
78.   King of the Hobos
Loney's LD% in Vegas this year is 24.5%.
2006-08-22 10:31:12
79.   caseybarker
Do Line drive of flyball percentages hold from the minors to the majors? I was just reading about this in the Hardball Times for 2005.

It surprised me that the expected run value of a walk is second to he expected run value of a line drive (~0.35).

2006-08-22 10:41:37
80.   King of the Hobos
79 I don't think minor league batted ball types before this season are really known, at least not by the public. tracks them using the game logs, but this is the first season.
2006-08-22 10:44:14
81.   Gen3Blue
I notice Loney has a bunch of hits the last few games in Vegas and has his average up to .380 again. I don't know what to do with him, he is young and has a chance to be a very rare hitter. I know we need more power and now. But I would be shattered to see him traded until we know for sure and I think a bat like that needs to play every day.
2006-08-22 10:46:19
82.   Gen3Blue
Sorry about 81-all fouled up. I was trying to post about 76 and 78, which make sense together. Loney doesnt have enough ML ab's.
2006-08-22 10:52:58
83.   bhsportsguy
Jon- What do you account for all the Ned love that is out there and do you think that it matters how the team finishes out this year as far as how he will be perceived outside of the worlds of DT and the like?

All other voices are welcome as well.

2006-08-22 11:02:55
84.   Jon Weisman
83 - Ned is perceived by most as a hero and nothing will change that except if/when the Dodgers lose.

However much it's because of previous regimes, Ned will get the credit for winning and the blame for losing. He'll be spared the anti-DePo vitriol if the team loses, but he won't escape blame.

But until then, there's no reason for casual observers to dislike him. Most people just look at W-L. Any critique of Ned requires more scrutiny than people outside Los Angeles have time to give.

2006-08-22 11:06:38
85.   screwballin
58 I'm not sure how your list supports your conclusion that he's a 4th outfielder. There are 48 starting outfield positions in the NL, and you've named 13 players having a better season than Drew. Some of those are in some great hitters' parks, while Drew is in an extreme pitcher's park.

VORP, which IS park adjusted, says he's the 3rd best RF in the NL, and that's if you count Abreu. (Top 3 are Abreu, Hawpe and Drew.)

I'm frustrated with him too, but just because he's not on pace for 40 dingers doesn't mean he's not helping the offense.

2006-08-22 11:12:02
86.   screwballin
And if you don't like VORP, Drew also comes out third using MLV and fourth using EQA.
2006-08-22 11:12:20
87.   Paul Scott
85 - 58 was fairly clearly being sarcastic. Drew is one of the top corner fileders in the NL and certainly one of the top (if not the top) contributor to our offense this year. The original poster to whom 58 was replying clearly has some irrational bias against Drew and so sarcasm was the appropriate response to some that inane.
2006-08-22 11:16:33
88.   Monterey Chris
The ESPN announcers for last nights game declared Ned to be the MVP of the National League West this year.

I ran into Ned on Friday morning at Union Square in San Francisco. We talked for a couple of minutes. Just from that short conversation, I could see why any insider would certainly like him.

2006-08-22 11:17:41
89.   Jon Weisman
The reason I encourage people not to use sarcasm on this site is not because I'm anti-sarcasm, but because it's so easily missed despite our best intentions.
2006-08-22 11:19:40
90.   screwballin
87 The list of names made me think he might be serious. Regardless, there's more than a little ranting about JD here, so I thought it would help everyone to see that he's maybe doing better than we thought. I, for one, was surprised he ranks that high on those lists.
2006-08-22 11:23:48
91.   the OZ
89 et al: Agreed. Sarcasm, like milk on a hot day, was a poor choice.
2006-08-22 11:26:56
92.   caseybarker
Why doesn't everyone just use the ;) symbol after a sarcastic comment:)
2006-08-22 11:35:37
93.   Monterey Chris
Not only is sarcasm often missed, I also think it is not the most persuasive way to build an argument.
2006-08-22 11:37:20
94.   Gagne55
87 You broke site rule #7, though.

92 I'm with you, but some people don't know how to use emoticons. (or perhaps just don't like them for some reason) :-/

2006-08-22 11:58:33
95.   Eric Enders
94 I'm one of those people who hates emoticons. I don't really know why, exactly; they just seem really lame. However, I do find myself forced to use them every once in a while when writing something that could otherwise be misinterpreted.

But most of the time, I just find them to be the crutch of the careless writer.

2006-08-22 12:14:26
96.   Eric Stephen
94 It would have been funny if you would have used a hateful emoticon to describe your feelings for them.

Reminds me of the late Mitch Hedberg, "I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it."

I was at last night's game, and there were the usual strong showing of Dodger fans in San Diego. So much so that on the walk from the stadium to the convention center (my parking lot of choice) I barely received any razzing from the celebrating Padre fans.

I was expecting many "Dodgers suck" taunts, but received none. I didn't get to use the "well, the Padres are 3 games worse than suck" line.

I'm very mature.

Section 201 tonight. See if we can't break Jack Murphy's Law.

2006-08-22 12:16:09
97.   caseybarker
I've been wondering about Gagne and the contract he is likely to get. Does anyone think that he will be signed to a one year contract, or will he be a non-roster invitee to some team?

I am assuming that he will be ready by spring training.

2006-08-22 12:19:22
98.   Jon Weisman
97 - Expect his negotiations to emulate Nomar's from the previous offseason. He'll get a contract from someone.
2006-08-22 12:19:33
99.   Paul Scott
94 I was not being sarcastic, so I could not have broken rule #7.
2006-08-22 12:28:32
100.   Eric Stephen
97,98 Losing Gagne would be a huge PR hit for the Dodgers. However, it seems Colletti is building up quite a bank of goodwill. If the Dodgers make it to the postseason, that might be enough for Colletti to escape the wrath of Plaschke, et al if he lets Gagne walk, regardless of how sensible the move may or may not be.

I'm with Jon, that Gagne will get a lower base, incentive laden contract, probably something in the $2-3 million range, with as much as $4-5m in incentives, maybe even with an option for 2008 (perhaps with a guarantee trigger with a certain amount of games finished or innings pitched).

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-08-22 12:43:50
101.   Benaiah
100 - I think Gagne would almost be worth it at that rate. I am sad to say that I don't think he will be what he was, but you never know. The goodwill and potential alone might be worth 2-3 million and if he came back he would be worth every penny and all of the incentives to boot.

However, my real fear is that he will get something more than that from someone after he manages to come back early and throw a good fastball in Spring Training. Shortly thereafter his arm falls off.

2006-08-22 12:53:08
102.   caseybarker
101 That's my feeling, exactly. He could start as just a sixth or seventh inning guy. Heck, Tomko gets 4 million a year for that duty.

Also, is Brazoban expected back next year? If so, we will have a pretty crowded pitching staff.

2006-08-22 13:03:01
103.   Jon Weisman
102 - I think Brazoban is expected back.
2006-08-22 13:05:49
104.   Eric Stephen
101 Wouldn't the decision on Gagne's contract come in December, not spring training? The team will almost certain decline his option in December, then would have to work out contract details, or else he wouldn't even be in spring training with the club.
2006-08-22 13:09:17
105.   Gagne55
102 Why would anybody want Yency Brazoban?

96 I'm one of the people who like emoticons, though. :)

2006-08-22 13:29:12
106.   Eric Stephen
105 Whoops, in my post 96, I meant to reference 95. But, since he referenced 94, I typed 94 as well, rather than 95.
2006-08-22 13:58:21
107.   Benaiah
I would want Yhency. He has (or had) a live arm and you cant teach speed. He could be a great setup man in the future.
2006-08-22 15:30:55
108.   Blu2
Yes, Drew is helping the offense; so is Toby Hall and every other player who has scored or driven in a run or moved up a runner. It always gets down to money; he isn't producing what he was paid to produce. If we were paying him $4M a year, I would say he was a productive member of the team. But at $11M we are being shortchanged. I, and just about everyone else here was critical of Jose Cruz until they finally released him. He didn't produce $4M worth of output. At $1M he would have been welcome. You can only fantasize about what you THINK he can do only so long, at some point he has to do it or you have to admit he is a very ordinary outfielder and should be paid accordingly. If I were the GM (I don't really want to be), I would trade him if he doesn't have a no trade clause. From our point of view we could save a lot of money. If he then invoked his 2 year option to become a free agent, he would be at risk to find someone to pay him that much or more. If he did, the trade would be voided, we'd give back whatever we got for him and give Soriano the $11M (and more). Heck, I'd even resign him if he was willing to play for what he's worth. Maybe $4M plus strong incentives for performance. I won't hold my breath till Boras lets him sign a contract like that...

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