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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Things People Write About the Things People Say
2006-08-22 08:38
by Jon Weisman

How do you quote someone?

Two articles in the Times this week - one baseball-related, the other anything but - had almost nothing to do with each other except making me think about this question.

The first article, by Jonathan Abrams, examined English-language training for young Spanish-speaking ballplayers, and it talked about how reporters today have chosen for the most part not to make fun of this vulnerable contingent.

"In a biography of Hall of Fame outfielder Roberto Clemente published this year," Abrams wrote, "author David Maraniss recounted the experiences of some Spanish-speaking players from the 1950s, 1960s and early 1970s. Clemente, of Puerto Rico, found sportswriters at times quoting him phonetically, emphasizing his accented English — 'I get heet ...' "

"Although such scrutiny of English skills has mostly faded in baseball, it occasionally reappears."

This is true, though it is less often revealed through overt mockery and more through observations of whether a player has taken the time to learn English. One can sometimes detect a level of impatience among reporters when a veteran major leaguer from another country is still speaking through a translator.

In any event, the print media has largely trained itself to write the words that the speaker is trying to say, regardless of pronounciation.

With that fresh in my mind, this morning I read a feature by Maura Dolan about 28-year-old local defense attorney Allison Margolin, with these two quotes:

"I was like the most eccentric person." ...

"It's like ridiculous."

It seems to me there's also a line here, similar to the one with Clemente and his linguistic brethren, where the attempt to be authentic and colorful risks becoming mocking - only the issue isn't pronounciation (and beneath that, race), but grammar.

I don't think Margolin has anything to be ashamed about to with her way of speech. Regrettably, I say "like" all too often, and so do a lot of people I know. It's not ideal, but I don't think it makes one less of a person, except perhaps in the eyes of my otherwise benevolent grandmother.

But it looks a lot worse than it sounds, which is why, like any grammatical bobble, you don't see it in print very often. Reporters clean up an interviewee's grammar all the time, and when they don't, it sometimes reveals itself as a calculated attempt to turn something innocent into something worthy of mockery.

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly confident that Margolin isn't the only attorney in town that has a speech quirk. Portraying it in print makes it bigger than it is.

Or maybe I'm just sensitive because I grew up in the Valley and came of age when Valley Girl was falsely generalizing how we talked. It was a good movie, but outsiders drew too many demographic conclusions from it.

Maybe the article is making the point that it's okay to say "like," as long as you do your job.

Of course, I wouldn't have written about this at all on Dodger Thoughts were it not for the article on ballplayers and English. I just find it interesting that how a reporter quotes a person is an ongoing issue in all realms of the media.

* * *

Since I have made the Margolin article tangentially relevant to this site, allow me to go on a couple more tangents.

"She wore a black Armani pants suit and a sleeveless red top with a plunging neckline, revealing a silver-blue lacy camisole and generous cleavage," Dolan writes at one point.

This description on its face would seem gratuitous, though I can't say it bothered me. It's easy enough for me to imagine a reporter taking note if a male lawyer dressed in an equivalent way. I don't know how that would be, but maybe the word "package" would come into play...

Still, mentioning Margolin's sexy dress without having people elaborate on its significance ... that's pleasure, that's spice, but it's not information. It's not the only example of Dolan trying to give us the complete Margolin experience - later we learn that Margolin drinks V8 juice, a much less provocative detail. But in an article focused on a lawyer's unconventional background and practice (you have to understand, I've been completely ignoring the main thrust of the piece up with these side discussions), I was left wondering how unconventional her dress was.

Some people may point to the sentence and automatically say that it's sexist. I'm pointing to it and asking, "Is it, or isn't it?" I don't know; I don't know if anyone knows, but I'm sure curious about people's opinions. Ally McBeal got cover stories in Time over this sort of thing. Given this discussion of sexuality from Margolin's blog, Margolin herself has probably given it some thought. (Note: There's a small, not-safe-for-work image at the other end of that link.)

The final curiosity of the Times article I want to mention is that Margolin says that while attending Harvard Law School, people would make fun of her for studying too much.

"I studied a lot, and I didn't lie about it, and people would make fun of me for it," she said. "People at Harvard pretended they didn't have to work because they were geniuses. "

I never attended Harvard Law, but in my graduate school experience and that of everyone else I know, the people who studied the most were the ones who made everyone else feel insecure. Graduate school is serious business. Sure, I'd be jealous of someone who knew everything without studying, jealous of true natural brilliance, but those people barely exist. The people who had the capacity to spend hours studying, the ones who could go the distance, were always respected. Shaming the nerd is something most graduate students leave behind.

In any event, something apparently caused Margolin to leave Harvard. Maybe I'm misreading, but another old blog entry seems to indicate she finished her law school education in Berkeley, though the Times article doesn't mention this. (Margolin's few blog postings provide an added layer of depth to the overall substance of Dolan's article.)

I know this column strayed far from baseball, but a preoccupation of this site is how the Dodgers get covered and the different interpretations that they inspire, and I felt somehow these musings related.

Update: Margolin "participated in the Harvard/Boalt Law exchange program, which is open to students in their third years," according to her friend, Jana Rausch. "Only five students at each school receive the opportunity to participate in the one-year program. Upon completion of the program, the student graduates from his or her original institution."

Comments (158)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-22 10:49:15
1.   still bevens
I dont think the Margolin piece was sexist, really. Its more of an 'OMG LEGALLY BLONDE IS REAL' entertainment piece. The fact that it was picked up by Defamer reinforces that.
2006-08-22 10:53:44
2.   Jon Weisman
1 - I think you're probably right. The triumph of her education probably trumps the speech and clothing issues.

The only think I'd say is that I never see depictions of how male lawyers dress, except in the "nice suit" manner. In other words, the sexiness of male lawyer dress doesn't ever come into question, does it?

But if I haven't made it clear enough already, these thoughts are tangents to the article.

2006-08-22 11:00:18
3.   the OZ
Harvard and a few other top law schools have a very generous grading curve. Their students don't need to study nearly as hard to get decent grades as at good-not-great schools such as Georgetown, UC Davis, etc. That may be one of the roots of the comments about the unusual nature of her study habits.

The piece is about the colorful, offbeat nature of her personality and how it contrasts with her professional world. I would rule it as "not sexist."

2006-08-22 11:04:32
4.   still bevens
I for one would like to know more about her 19 year old man servants. I'm a legal assistant myself, and I know for a fact that you need a college degree to be worth your salt. I guess you dont need to go to school to carry around things and make phone calls, but I think there's a more interesting story here.
2006-08-22 11:05:49
5.   EricNus
Perhaps this will give a better impression:

2006-08-22 11:09:43
6.   Jon Weisman
5 - That link is blocked at work.
2006-08-22 11:23:08
7.   Bob Timmermann

Ms. Margolin sounds like a "normal" attorney in that video.

2006-08-22 11:25:25
8.   Jon Weisman
Raul Mondesi, in the news again:

(link came from Baseball Primer)

2006-08-22 11:27:06
9.   Bill Crain
I've checked, and I'm pretty sure Jon didn't violate Rule 1 when he wrote
the main thrust of the piece up
But could this have been a Freudian slip? The real question is whether I'm periously close to violating Rules 7 and 10.

Can't be sure; didn't study that hard at King Hall.

2006-08-22 11:30:51
10.   the OZ
8 So Mondesi's an ex-Dominican now, but still a big leaguer? Or is the headline's grammar just bad? Like the time that Nomar Garciaparra was traded and "packed his bags, left [Minnesota], and got on a plane to Chicago"?
2006-08-22 11:32:22
11.   Jon Weisman
9 - All clear.
2006-08-22 11:33:14
12.   Daniel Zappala
In most cases I think commenting on a woman's dress, while not typically doing that for a male, is sexist. However, in recent years it is becoming part of our culture for women to express their sexuality prominently through their choice of clothing. Her dress is becoming fairly normal in many parts of the country, but is certainly atypical for lawyers and worth a mention in the piece.

I do think journalism has come a long way in improving its standards for professional behavior, despite the proliferation of tabloids. Read old newspapers and you'll see they rarely reported anything "objectively".

2006-08-22 11:34:14
13.   Daniel Zappala
Oh and Jon, I'm happy for any non-baseball thoughts you write as you have an interesting take. I don't think it threatens to overwhelm the purpose of the site.
2006-08-22 11:36:26
14.   Bob Timmermann
Pretty much every citation to Ms. Margolin's credentials say she is Harvard Law '02.

Boalt Hall doesn't claim her or she doesn't advertise that fact.

2006-08-22 11:39:27
15.   Bill Crain
11 Thanks. I'm entitled to ADA protection anyway. Compulsive editing.
2006-08-22 11:44:20
16.   Jon Weisman
14 - Yeah, so I've seen. So was her time at Berkeley a semester abroad?
2006-08-22 11:47:14
17.   Marty
Letterman's top ten list was "Top ten signs Osama bin Laden is in love with you". I thought number 4 was funny:

4. Get a romantic greeting card that reads, "You jihad me at 'Hello'"

2006-08-22 11:51:02
18.   Marty
Scientists are claiming that they have found direct proof of dark matter, "the mysterious stuff that makes up the vast majority of our universe."

This is perfect Griddle material.

2006-08-22 11:52:56
19.   Bob Timmermann
I've given up astronomy for the time being for cricket.

Which, by the way, has made it into the NEWS section of the New York Times and into the LA Times sports section.

Like, it's so incredibly good, you know?

2006-08-22 12:00:08
20.   Jon Weisman
19 - It was on A1 of the Times, with old friend (not in the Dodger sense) Chuck Culpepper writing.
2006-08-22 12:05:09
21.   Eric Enders
"Reporters clean up an interviewee's grammar all the time, and when they don't, it sometimes reveals itself as a calculated attempt to turn something innocent into something worthy of mockery."

Doesn't Simers do that quite a bit? I seem to remember some article earlier this year where he quoted a Dodger player with all the "uh"s and "um"s included, just to make him look bad. I don't remember who the player was but I remember it struck me as dirty pool. It also wasn't the first time I'd noticed him doing that.

Then again, it's Simers, so I'm not sure why we'd expect a whole lot of integrity.

2006-08-22 12:07:59
22.   Jon Weisman
21 - I have a vague recollection of Simers mocking Choi last year.
2006-08-22 12:09:16
23.   Eric Enders
"Shaming the nerd is something most graduate students leave behind."

I like that turn of phrase. I think we should rename "Smear the Queer" to "Shaming the Nerd."

2006-08-22 12:10:46
24.   Marty
23 Or Burnishing the Cat
2006-08-22 12:12:30
25.   Eric Enders
Delicious double entendre from the blog entry Jon linked:

"I try to promote the Playboy philosophy daily by defending drug users, drug sellers, and, prostitutes and I have no qualms about trying to get off those who are guilty of those crimes."

2006-08-22 12:14:14
26.   Jon Weisman
No, burnishing the cat is all good.
2006-08-22 12:16:24
27.   Penarol1916
3. Wait, Georgetown is good, but not great? All of the firms I work with put in in the top 10-15, while Davis tends to be more of the good but not great, a step below UCLA, Berkeley and the like. Perhaps the perceptions are different on the West Coast.
2006-08-22 12:16:44
28.   Bob Timmermann
I reread Simers piece on Choi last year. He quoted Choi as saying "I hit good" but that was about it. His column was more about the difficulty he had communicating with Choi.
2006-08-22 12:20:35
29.   Bob Timmermann
In the course of my search for the Simers article Jon alluded to, I came across an interview Simers had with the late Craig Heyward where Heyward defended Lawrence Phillips as being a good guy who was misunderstood.
2006-08-22 12:22:15
30.   Penarol1916
29. Would that be Craig "Ironhead" Heyward of Pitt?
2006-08-22 12:23:31
31.   Bob Timmermann

The very same.

From the article:

"You have to understand, when the media asks him for an interview, he's going to say no," Heyward said. "I would be comfortable if he didn't speak to the media for a whole year. Over time, people will see if he gets better. The team psychologist is working with him and we see signs of progress, but there will be another off-season coming up and he's got to be on his own and get through it without getting in trouble.

"You got to understand a lot of things he grew up with. People are so quick to jump to a conclusion on what they read."

You mean all that stuff about him grabbing a man around the throat, dragging his girlfriend down a flight of stairs by her hair, getting arrested for drunk driving after speeding down a California highway on a flat tire, getting arrested again for cursing at police who came to his hotel to break up a loud party and serving 30 days in jail in April for probation violation?

"No one has taught him the value of a dollar, or how to respect a woman," Heyward said. "No one taught me. I had to learn the hard way--they gave me a million dollars, but there is life out there with no manual."

2006-08-22 12:29:09
32.   Steve
Simers has difficulty communicating. News at 11.
2006-08-22 12:33:38
33.   Linkmeister
I don't find it particularly sexist to describe her clothing; how many times have you seen an NBA coach described as "the Armani-wearing Pat Riley?"
2006-08-22 12:35:45
34.   the OZ
27 Maybe. When I say "Top", I mean super-elite programs. GTown and UCLA are great, obviously. I'm not sure what the grading policies are at all those schools around #14 where GTown is, but I'm pretty sure it's not the same generous curve as at Harvard, which has a grading system more reminiscent of a business school (everyone gets Bs or better, essentially).

I don't claim to be an expert on law school rankings. I get my info from a half-dozen friends at programs ranging from Harvard and NYU to University of San Diego. And US News.

2006-08-22 12:36:30
35.   Jon Weisman
33 - Brand of clothing is neither here nor there. It's the focus on how much skin was showing which raises the question - though again, the answer may still be that it's not sexist.
2006-08-22 12:45:07
36.   Marty
Jon made the top of L.A. Observed.
2006-08-22 12:45:57
37.   Marty
I wonder which one of the gang here is Kevin.
2006-08-22 12:47:47
38.   Marty
Tony Jackson really doesn't like Billingsley:

But most of the blame went to rookie Chad Billingsley, who returned to the scene of his major-league debut two months ago. He blew a 2-0 lead with his usual wildness and high pitch count after sailing through the first three innings.

2006-08-22 12:51:15
39.   the OZ
He blew a 2-0 lead

Which means he allowed two runs. This is neither shocking nor something that requires apology.

2006-08-22 12:53:34
40.   Steve
If we simply remember that Tony Jackson is a reactionary idiot, he becomes somewhat less controversial.
2006-08-22 12:54:57
41.   Bob Timmermann
Mike Torrez blew a 2-0 lead to the Yankees in the last game of the 1978 regular season.

Red Sox fans haven't forgiven him yet.

2006-08-22 12:56:32
42.   Mush
HLS has a year "abroad" exchange program with Berkeley. One of my favorite people from law school did his first two years at Berkeley and then finished up at HLS.

And it's true, the curve at Harvard is generous - as a rule, there are no C's given out to first years.

2006-08-22 12:58:18
43.   Jon Weisman
37 - I could remember Kevin commenting on DT once, but I had to Google it.

Anyway, it was under his own name.

Speaking of phrases, "pass the quotidian" didn't catch on ...

2006-08-22 12:59:07
44.   King of the Hobos
Kuo's currently pitching for Vegas. His control has not been very good, but he's pitched 3 scoreless innings thus far.
2006-08-22 13:01:34
45.   Ken Arneson
19 Must be a slow news day. The lead story on the front page of the SF Chronicle today was something about some super strong species of ant.
2006-08-22 13:05:40
46.   BlueMamma
35 - Well, it's because of her sex, but not therefore sexist.

I think that the different ways in which men and women view themselves and the way they view each other makes it more important the way a woman dresses, and less important the way a man dresses. Everyone knows that men are more provoked by sight, and women by... well, that's more obscure, though I'd call it imagination. So if a woman plays up to the visual through her clothing, that says a lot about the image she wants to project. Whereas a woman can imagine all she wants about a man, relatively independant of what he has on, except in the most extreme instances.

To put it another way, women don't especially care how much skin a man is showing, because that deosn't really matter much, unless he's naked, or something. Hence all references to a man's wardrobe will tend to be of the "Armani-clad" type, indicative of financial status. However, a man won't care how much a woman's dress cost if it's showing ample cleavage.

2006-08-22 13:08:44
47.   Bob Timmermann
So why are humans the opposite of nearly every other animal species where the female is very drab and the male is colorful.

I, for one, am very glad I don't have to literally act like a peacock.

2006-08-22 13:11:49
48.   bhsportsguy
Also, having been in my share courtrooms, the style of dress described both in the article and in her blog is unusual and probably has an affect on she is viewed by the Court, jury and opposing counsel.
2006-08-22 13:12:20
49.   Marty
47 For this site you should probably use male peafowl :)
2006-08-22 13:13:14
50.   bhsportsguy
So again, not sure if it is sexist but again if she wore a dark suit, sensible length and coverage, it probably doesn't get mentioned at all.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-22 13:19:57
51.   Bob Timmermann

Now I wonder if Ms. Margolin's office has a unisex bathroom and a computer generated baby running around?

2006-08-22 13:22:05
52.   BlueMamma
47 - Well, frankly, (and maybe this is news?) because female humans can think. And, while we're on the subject, so can male humans.

50 - I think that's right, unless it made her appear mannish, and the author of the piece wanted to point out that she's not at all feminine. Which I think is the exact opposite of what she was trying to accomplish.

2006-08-22 13:22:43
53.   bhsportsguy
Finally, the writer of the story Maura Dolan, is an alumnus of Cal worked on the school paper, class of 1976, has been a staff writer for both the San Francisco Examiner and for the L.A. Times (for over 20 years) and has covered the courts (assigned the Cal Supreme Court in San Francisco). So I think she was just capturing the personality and style of this particular attorney and while I won't go as far to say that a woman can't possess certain sexist opinions, I think the writer wasjust reporting what she saw and heard. And from I have seen, Ms. Margolin is certainly different from your normal attorney who does a lot of trial work.
2006-08-22 13:23:17
54.   DaveP
44 - did LaRoche get hurt again? I haven't seen him at 3B in a few games now.
2006-08-22 13:25:33
55.   Daniel Zappala
From Sunday's 6-4-2:

In yesterday's 51's/Rainiers contest, Andy LaRoche left the game in the seventh with an injured neck and shoulder. No word on his status.

2006-08-22 13:25:54
56.   bhsportsguy
So Jon, best movie to portray the Valley experience in your formative years, Fast Times at Ridgemont High or Valley Girl?
2006-08-22 13:26:13
57.   DaveP
55 - gracias
2006-08-22 13:26:16
58.   Marty
43 It looks like that thread introduced Jim Hitchcok to us. He disappeared from this site not long after the Adam Dunn expedition. I wonder what happened to him?
2006-08-22 13:26:49
59.   Marty
56 Boogie Nights
2006-08-22 13:32:06
60.   Bob Timmermann
Boogie Nights, or any of the other P.T. Anderson films set in the Valley (Magnolia, Punch-Drunk Love) capture the experience correctly.

The car crash at the beginning of Punch-Drunk Love made me feel very nostalgic.

2006-08-22 13:34:28
61.   Marty
Somebody smashed into a parked car on my street and then ran off a couple nights ago. Luckily my car was in the driveway.
2006-08-22 13:42:15
62.   Jon Weisman
56 - I think The Wonder Years captured the essence of it as much as anything - bland on the outside, teeming with fun and insecurity on the inside.

Fast Times, I associate with surfer culture.

The exteriors for the prom in Valley Girl were shot at my high school, as was a scene from the White Shadow.

Also shot at Harvard School when I was in junior high: Angel (High school honors student by day, Hollywood hooker by night).

59 - Other than the XXX theater that used to rest next to Corbin Bowl on Ventura Boulevard, I was not aware of the industry's ties to the Valley while I was growing up.

61 - I read yesterday that the inspiration for the scene in Groundhog Day, where Bill Murray crashes his car and then orders a cheeseburger from the cops, came from a real-life incident involving Paul Lynde.

2006-08-22 13:44:34
63.   Uncle Miltie
Anyone else watching the little league world series? Brent Musburger is awful. His jokes stink, he uses so many clichés, and he gets way too excited by minor things. I'm shocked that he hasn't given any of the kids new nicknames.

You could tell that Brent could barely contain himself when they showed one of the kids hot moms.

2006-08-22 13:45:00
64.   Jon Weisman
56/62 - Obviously, there were those scenes in Fast Times shot at the Sherman Oaks Galleria. But I'm a diehard fan of the original book, which put everyone at Paul Revere Junior High and a standin for, I think, Palisades High. That plus Spicoli ... I just don't think of Fast Times as a Valley movie.
2006-08-22 13:47:54
65.   Greg S
Now you've gone and done it. You've tripped onto my favorite subject and forced me to answer (even though you probably know this at least as well as I do).
Peacocks have the bling because there is evolutionary selective pressure for them to have it; it get's them the chicks (literally). The male usually has the bling because the female can only get pregnant every nine months or so and doesn't need to impress you (who can impregnate every 15 minutes or so) as much as you need to impress her.
BUT... with an advanced, semi-smart species like man, the bling isn't in the feathers but in the more complex social symbols... like your car. So you DO have feathers. Your bitchin' Prius is your tail. And don't think girls are stupid for liking rich guys. They are MUCH smarter than peacocks!
2006-08-22 13:51:34
66.   Bob Timmermann
I think we've proven that chicks did guys who know the names of the Dodgers top 30 prospects.
2006-08-22 13:53:44
67.   Greg S
66 Evolution only takes us so far.
2006-08-22 13:55:21
68.   Marty
66 You mean dig right? Dig. Because if you don't mean dig, you mean do.
2006-08-22 13:56:55
69.   Marty
And if you mean do, then I need to bone up on my prospect knowledge.
2006-08-22 13:58:48
70.   Eric Enders
66, 69 Hey, I created my own top 50 list! And I'm still waiting.
2006-08-22 13:58:54
71.   Bob Timmermann
Sorry, I did mean dig instead of did.

I didn't mean to work blue there.

2006-08-22 14:05:18
72.   mankatododger
Just wondering if anyone knows what the gender breakdown on this site is? I noticed a discussion about a week ago that centered on "throwing like a girl" and now this one about the speech patterns and dress of a female attorney. How many other women post here? (And for your information, I didn't throw like a girl when I was a girl, but I do now that I am old.)
2006-08-22 14:08:06
73.   gibsonhobbs88
65 - Of course it works in other species of animals as well. Elk, Deer and Moose, the stag male is noticed by the size and width of his antlers, male lions their mane where the females are much more plain looking. Certain birds also follow this pattern. The Australian Frill Lizard male also shows off like a peacock with a unique dance while displaying suddenly larger colorful headgear around his ears.
2006-08-22 14:10:21
74.   Eric Enders
72 There are two or three regular female posters, I believe. (Not counting the pseudonym Claire Malone-Evans...)

Then again, there may be more with non-gender-specific handles who just haven't come out and screamed "Hey, I'm female!"

2006-08-22 14:10:39
75.   Terry A
"The Australian Frill Lizard male also shows off like a peacock with a unique dance while displaying suddenly larger colorful headgear around his ears."

In Arkansas, the girls who can spit tobacco the farthest end up with the guys driving trucks with the biggest mud flaps. Sometimes they're not kin.

2006-08-22 14:12:01
76.   mankatododger
74Thank you.
2006-08-22 14:12:52
77.   BlueMamma
Do I count as a poster? I hardly ever post. Anyway, I'm a woman, duh.

There's a species of duck in which the male is the plain one, and the female is more brightly colored. Interestingly enough, it's the female that does the pursuing, and the male that does all the egg incubating. Of course, this method won't work with mammals, to the great frustration of many women...

2006-08-22 14:13:23
78.   King of the Hobos
Kuo's game: 5 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 3 BB, 4 K, 1 HR, 83 pitches
2006-08-22 14:15:47
79.   Greg S
73. Yep, as Bob said, males usually have to impress throughout the animal kingdom. Females reproductive cycle is much more "precious" and therefore they are more choosy.
2006-08-22 14:18:50
80.   Greg S
Interestingly enough, it's the female that does the pursuing, and the male that does all the egg incubating.
Exactly. The bigger the investment of the parent in the offspring (which is usually, but not always, the domain of the female) both biologically and time-wise, the more the other parent will need to impress.
Go Dodgers!
2006-08-22 14:24:13
81.   gibsonhobbs88
75 - I don't know if I ever saw that displayed on an episode of "Wild Kingdom". :) I derived most of my information from my remembrance of "Wild Kingdom" and other like shows of that ilk!!
77- There are a few exceptions to the general rule in the wild, male seahorses also maintain the eggs in a pouch, emperor penguins share in the care of the egg from the harsh Antarctic weather with the males watching the egg while the women go to feed. Credit for that info goes to "March of the Penguins".
2006-08-22 14:26:19
82.   Bob Timmermann
Females have reproductive cycles?

Wow, the things I learn on Dodger Thoughts.

So, I can stop visiting cabbage patches?

2006-08-22 14:28:00
83.   Jon Weisman
Izturis, C. to the DL.
2006-08-22 14:29:06
84.   Terry A
82 - Females have reproductive truck washes. There are no cycles involved.


Jeff Kent

2006-08-22 14:29:27
85.   Bob Timmermann
They should have kept Neifi around for this!
2006-08-22 14:33:12
86.   D4P
This guy did the math...

2006-08-22 14:34:36
87.   Greg S
Great article by Steven Pinker in current Forbes Magazine (of all places!). Talks about how March of The Penguins missed a great oppotunity to increase public knowledge and unerstanding of how the world works.
2006-08-22 14:36:07
88.   Bluebleeder87
another great read/Hrun Jon
2006-08-22 14:38:46
89.   Greg S
I knew I'd do that. The URL is
2006-08-22 14:47:12
90.   nick
25 Funny how she gives Hugh Hefner credit for sexual liberation, like he caused the 60s: Hef, feminist icon!.....seriously, though, what about sexual liberation for women who don't want to spend all the time it takes looking like the LA version of hot? She's either not very analytical or not very honest, based on that blog entry....
2006-08-22 14:47:46
91.   Bluebleeder87
That link is blocked at work.

youre missing out Jon!!

2006-08-22 14:48:03
92.   nick
(& I'll now take my feminist analysis back to Bronx Banter...)
2006-08-22 14:53:09
93.   Jon Weisman
89 - "I recently bought a frog from a Web vendor."

There's a premise with 22 minutes of sitcom hilarity built right in!

Use the Brady Bunch, a drive-in and a cheese pizza as your template.

2006-08-22 14:55:00
94.   dzzrtRatt
I haven't seen Maura Dolan in years, but I think she's around my age. People my age looked up from our labors sometime in the past five or so years and realized that the next generation of young women are dressing for work like they're going straight from the office to a dance club.

This is also true about girls in high school and college nowadays. I have no idea how my 16-year-old son learns anything. Oh right, he doesn't!

So, perhaps Dolan's description of Ms. Margolin was a decorous way of saying, "You actually go to court and defend your clients dressed like that???" If a 28-year-old reporter had written the profile, she probably wouldn't have made such a big deal out of it. (And she surely wouldn't have called attention to the use of "like.")

2006-08-22 14:58:18
95.   Bluebleeder87

you make a very valid an interesting point.

2006-08-22 14:59:07
96.   Greg S
93 - Nature is truly the greatest source of all things great: wonder, awe, and plot lines for campy sitcoms.
2006-08-22 15:05:08
97.   Jon Weisman
96 - "And that's when the judge sentenced the frog to be my butler ..."
2006-08-22 15:11:18
98.   Greg S

Teenage Daughter: "Someday my prince will come"
(laugh track/ dissolve to credits)

2006-08-22 15:18:01
99.   King of the Hobos
The GCL playoffs began today, and the Dodgers won a one game, do or die contest against the Tigers to advance to the championship series. Kershaw went 5 innings, allowing 7 hits, 2 runs, and 2 walks while striking out 6. Jovanny Rosario had 2 triples, which accounted for 2 runs. In the top of the 10th in a 2-2 game, 18 year old 2004 draft-and-follow Brian Matthews hit a 2 run homer, ultimately giving the Dodgers the win. Mattingly (who is 2 days younger than Matthews) went 1-5 with a stolen base, as well as a pickoff/caught stealing. Lyndon Poole had a walk, stolen base, and 2 outfield assists.
2006-08-22 15:20:15
100.   King of the Hobos
99 There's a typo in there, Matthews was drafted in 2005, not 2004.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-08-22 15:22:05
101.   BlueCrew Fan
Re Bettemit: can somebody please tell Vin Scully that the Braves traded Bettemit for Baez AND Willy Aybar before he talks again about the steal the Dodgers accomplished? And from what I read there are a number of baseball people that think Aybar has more upside than Bettemit. By the way, that's the same Aybar that Vinny used to say got unfairly lost in the shuffle among the other prospects.
2006-08-22 15:25:12
102.   Bob Timmermann reporting that Shawn Green is a Met.

2006-08-22 15:27:28
103.   King of the Hobos
Joe Thurston is back in the majors.
2006-08-22 15:28:46
104.   Jon Weisman
Interesting. Wonder what they're giving up for him.

Green's EQA is down to .258, OPS at .777.

2006-08-22 15:29:08
105.   Jon Weisman
102/103 It's dueling news items!
2006-08-22 15:29:19
106.   Bob Timmermann
Minor league player to be named and $$$$$$$$$
2006-08-22 15:29:35
107.   bhsportsguy
101 I believe what Vinny would say about that (and I can't believe I am even going here), Vin has said on previous broadcasts that Aybar can hit but he does or has not shown the power of Betemit and Betemit has made plays at 3B (based on my observation) that Aybar has not shown the ability to do. They both don't hit left handers that much. And Betemit was the more highly touted prospect of the two.

I think he just believes that Betemit has a future in the game as a regular 3B and for the price of a free agent set up man and an unfinished utility player, thats a steal. You are certainly welcome to your opinion but Vin has seen a lot more baseball than most in the game today.

2006-08-22 15:29:53
108.   Bob Timmermann
Buck Coats was called up to replace C. Izturis by the Cubs.

According to, his full name is:

Buck Coats.

2006-08-22 15:30:32
109.   regfairfield
Ooh boy, another reason to be scared of the Diamondbacks.
2006-08-22 15:31:03
110.   Bob Timmermann
There is great rejoicing among DBacks fans by the way over Green's departure.
2006-08-22 15:31:39
111.   Marty
Buck Coats is badly in need of a nickname. I nominate doe-eyes.
2006-08-22 15:33:14
112.   bhsportsguy
If the Mets can get Izzy (he's hurt), Odalis (I guess with Glavine back, they won't go there), Alex Cora (the Red Sox brought up their middle IF top prospect so who knows) they can have a 2004 Western Division reunion.

As it is they have as many active players from the 2004 playoff roster (Saenz/Green) as the Dodgers do.

2006-08-22 15:33:42
113.   Jon Weisman
106 - No, I know, I meant I was wondering what level prospect it was.
2006-08-22 15:34:31
114.   Bob Timmermann
Such information has not been revealed.
2006-08-22 15:35:24
115.   Steve
104 -- Their self-respect?
2006-08-22 15:35:52
116.   bhsportsguy
The Mets had to be pretty desparate because Green has 9.5 million guaranteed and 2 million buy out for 2007.

I have to guess that the D-Backs gave up some cash.

2006-08-22 15:36:21
117.   Bluebleeder87
60 & 61

i was walking home from work & i saw this lady driving out of a supermaket & they almost crashed, i felt really bad for the lady because she was shaking.

2006-08-22 15:37:37
118.   bhsportsguy
109 Actually, Shawn Green has hit pretty well against the Dodgers so it probably works out for them though they will face him in September in New York.
2006-08-22 15:39:25
119.   Jon Weisman
114 - Hence, my wondering.
2006-08-22 15:40:15
120.   Jon Weisman
Lugo starting at third base tonight.
2006-08-22 15:41:23
121.   Bob Timmermann
There goes his streak of starting at different positions!
2006-08-22 15:41:35
122.   Blu2
83 Now's our chance to trade Lugo to them. It would be better for him to get a chance to play shortstop regularly and with Betamitt, Martinez, and calling up LaRoche, I can't believe we'd be any worse off. I'd also like to see Loney and Kemp back up as soon as possible. Repko is regressing back to last years' Repko, so sending him down doesn't hurt us any. At this point, I don't think he has a future here...
2006-08-22 15:46:17
123.   Bluebleeder87
larger colorful headgear

now that's just wrong! Jon!!

2006-08-22 15:46:52
124.   bhsportsguy
122 At this point no one is going back down and in 10 days or so, Loney and Kemp will return, LaRoche appears to be out with some sort of injury and frankly though Grady has played rookies, it is highly unlikely aside from Ethier, Martin, Loney or Kemp, any other rookies who have not played this year would play much while the playoffs are in doubt.

As far as deals, Lugo was acquired as protection for Kent and to allow Grady to be flexible with Drew, Lofton, Betemit, and Furcal. I don't see any clubs outside of Boston that needs a regular shortstop and even that move seems very unlikely.

2006-08-22 15:47:49
125.   bhsportsguy
Also, very quietly, Hall has become Hendrickson's caddy.
2006-08-22 15:52:05
126.   Bob Timmermann
Might as well give Hall a start. Martin has not looked sharp the last couple of games.
2006-08-22 16:06:58
127.   Bluebleeder87

he got a hit yesterday, but yeah i agree

2006-08-22 16:13:40
128.   BlueCrew Fan
107 - I didn't mean to discuss the merits of the trade. It's just that on several occasions I've heard Vinny say on the air that he just can't believe how the Dodgers (i.e., Ned) got Betemit for Baez without even mentioning Aybar's name... as if he wasn't even part of the deal. ("The Braves must sure have been desparate for a reliever..."). I'm sure Aybar was a big part of the deal as far as the Braves were concerned.
2006-08-22 16:14:54
129.   fanerman
128 - Nice to know I wasn't the only one who noticed.
2006-08-22 16:24:11
130.   tjshere
111 Rackman
2006-08-22 16:53:27
131.   regfairfield
As much as Green has declined, I don't get Mets fans saying they'd rather have Endy Chavez.
2006-08-22 16:56:54
132.   Nagman
128 - I can still remember that day when Vin came on the air in the pregame and announced the trade and only mentioned that Baez was in the deal. I was astounded and happy, which was dampened when I discovered later that Aybar was involved.
2006-08-22 17:05:17
133.   Bluebleeder87

imo, i think Betemit is a bit better in D then Aybar.

2006-08-22 17:06:35
134.   King of the Hobos
Thurston's stay in the majors could be short, as the Phillies just acquired Jose Hernandez for cash considerations. Hopefully Tracy's not too heart broken.
2006-08-22 17:12:07
135.   Eric Enders
132 You had exactly the same experience I did. Boy, what a pop in the balloon.
2006-08-22 17:13:14
136.   PDH5204
107 bhsportsguy:

It pains me to say this, but Vin is not Vin anymore. He makes more errors in calling a single game now than he used to make in a year of calling games, and the correction of error has become a rather endangered species. And re the judgment, well, best illustrated by, "he's a steal" and "he's hitting less than a buck against left-handed pitching." No one "steals" those hitting less than a buck against left-handers, rather, such are given away [as was done here]. The only question left to answer is, were the Braves mistaken in thinking that Betemit will never hit decent enough against lefties and also that his average will otherwise drop with playing everday [when Mr. Pitcher becomes better able to "exploit," as noted by the comment here via Jon, to the effect that Ethier looks like the real deal, since he's had enough ABs for the pitchers to have had time to learn how to "exploit" him, and since they haven't, he's, according to the one, the "real deal"].

And to bring our man natepurcell into the discussion [concerning something he said last night], I actually like Betemit, and if I had my way, he'd stay with the team. But now is not the time to have him learn to hit left-handed pitching, at least not during game situations. But that doesn't mean that he can't learn in the meantime. While some want to see Kuo brought up in September to provide some valuable pitching help, I want Kuo to be brought up to pitch to Betemit everyday. And if we ever need skip a Hendrickson start, well, then he pitches to Betemit that day. So while I want him to learn to hit lefties, I also want the growing pains to have the least affect on division title run as is humanly possible. And sorry to say, but if the man never learns to hit lefties, then he ought never be an everyday player.

And we haven't begun to discuss his 2005 RISP, again, 5/42. When that number is considered with his other numbers, such ought to alarm some, since it might be read to read that while he got his fair share of hits, when the game was on the line, he got put down. I'm not otherwise expecting him to be the greatest to ever play 3rd, as I'd be happy if he turned out to be Ron Cey II.

I'd otherwise like the Dodgers to return to what made the Dodgers great, in a word, pitching. With the right pitching staff, and they're a true ace and a Doug Rau away from that [has anyone seen Tommy John, and in this regard, simply recall that game in the rain in Philly against Carlton and the Phillies, and so, our ace]. Give me the modern equivalent of Sutton, John, Hooton, and Rau, and if you want some more diversity, you can sub any but John with, oh, say, Jerry Reuss, as was later done, or even earlier in the piece, maybe a Messersmith I [and not the remake], and with that, I'll be more than happy with:

C - Martin
1B - Loney
2B - Lugo
SS - Furcal
3B - Betemit/LaRoche
LF - Ethier
CF - Kemp
RF - Drew

No, they won't have many big innings, and those so over-enamored with the HR will be disappointed, but with the modern equivalent of the pitchers named, they won't need the big inning and the long ball all that often. And in the meantime, if nothing else, as someone so wisely remarked a few days ago, if the pitcher need make a mistake, keep the damn thing in the park, since at least that makes it theoretically possible for the mistake to be defensed. Which brings me back to those old Dodgers. Some played together for long time. But look at the pitching numbers. Need I report that some wins for the pitchers were prevented by some poor defense? Lopes had his moments, and a ground ball to short always caused that increased heart rate. The defense I provided above via my preferred future lineup is much better than that of the Cey, Russell, Lopes, and Garvey era. So given the same pitching...

Oh, and not that I don't like Drew, since I can't say that, since it's not true, but with the power decline, I'm open to a J.D Drew for Reggie Smith trade [where are you Reggie?]. That would make the lineup very nearly perfect, and we'd otherwise see just which of these modern era runners would be so bold as to test Reggie's arm on that single to right. But Loney would be this era's Garvey, Lugo the upgrade over Lopes, Furcal the upgrade over Russell, and Betemit/LaRoche, either or both, play Ron Cey II. Martin is Yeager, certainly defensively, and hopefully, better offensively. Ethier gets to play Dusty II, Kemp is, well, we'd have to go back to Jimmy Wynn for the appropriate centerfielder, so Kemp can play Jimmy, slight return, and stand up next to that mountain, and Drew either plays Reggie Smith, or we get someone who can. And so, they're a Drew becomes Smith, a true ace, and a Doug Rau away. As near as I can discern.

2006-08-22 17:18:07
137.   King of the Hobos
Elbert's not having a very good game, due once again to homers, one of which belonged to Evan Longoria (31 year old Michael Coleman hit the other).
2006-08-22 17:20:25
138.   Bob Timmermann
Some sites are reporting that the Mets gave up a minor leaguer named Evan McLane to get Shawn Green.
2006-08-22 17:21:23
139.   D4P
Evan already has a name? I thought he was to be named later...
2006-08-22 17:22:16
140.   Bob Timmermann
Reds seem determined to hold on to the wild card spot. They lead Houston 12-0 in the 3rd.

The Cardinals lead the Mets 7-1 on two home runs by Pujols accounting for all the runs.

You do the math.

2006-08-22 17:26:39
141.   Blu2
124 As I understand the process, on Aug 31 the Dodgers must submit a 25 man roster as their eligibles for post season play. Whether those players must be on their 25 man roster on that day or not, I do not know. I believe that in order for them to add/change a player to the post season roster later, one of those 25 must go on the DL. What I'm trying to say, and probably poorly, is I would rather have Kemp on that roster than Hendrickson, and if getting him on the 25 man by Aug 31 helps that end, then I would like to see us do it. Who would have thought a month ago that we would be worrying about World Series rosters this year??? We are but yoyos on the big Blue's string...
2006-08-22 17:32:01
142.   King of the Hobos
It's Evan MacLane, and he's a 23 year old pitching prospect in AAA. He didn't rank in BA's top 10 Mets prospects, but he was rated best changeup in the Mets system. The DBacks seem to have gotten less for Green than the Dodgers did, although that shouldn't surprise anyone.
2006-08-22 17:34:42
143.   Linkmeister
136 "where are you Reggie?"

I bought some supplies from him back in 1986 or '87. He owned an office supplies outfit and occasionally did his own deliveries. I ended up with a couple of autographed b&w photos, too.

I have no idea whether he still does that.

2006-08-22 17:35:35
144.   Jon Weisman
141 - We went through this yesterday in the comments. You don't have to be on the 25-man roster on August 31 to be on the postseason roster. You just have to be in the organization. After that, you can be manuevered on. The best recent example of this is K-Rod's September debut with the Angels.
2006-08-22 17:36:21
145.   D4P
Q: Two home runs produced 7 runs. One of the home runs was not a grand slam. What were the two home runs?
2006-08-22 17:37:06
146.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets have five runs on two home runs by Carlos Delgado.

You do the math.

Of course, there's more than one possible answer.

2006-08-22 17:37:32
147.   Bob Timmermann
Old friend Guillermo Mota pitching for the Mets now.
2006-08-22 17:42:13
148.   Claire Malone-Evans
Reggie Smith was the hitting coach for Team USA during the 2006 WBC .
2006-08-22 17:42:53
149.   Steve
146 and 147 have got to be related events.
2006-08-22 17:47:05
150.   Bob Timmermann
Q: Two home runs produced 7 runs. One of the home runs was not a grand slam. What were the two home runs?*

A grand slam and a three-run homer.

The three-run homer is not a grand slam.

I read "Highlights"

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-08-22 17:53:10
151.   Bluebleeder87
Old friend Guillermo Mota pitching for the Mets now.

LoDuca must have had some type of influence on that no?

2006-08-22 17:56:06
152.   King of the Hobos
Elbrt's game: 5 IP, 6 H, 6 ER, 4 BB, 6 K, 2 HR
2006-08-22 17:56:27
153.   Bluebleeder87
0.2186 my latest score

i get mad at my self/become comepetitive agains my self & do alot better as i go along.

2006-08-22 17:59:42
154.   Bluebleeder87

see 0.20020000000000002 (with 7 beers in my bellie)

2006-08-22 17:59:54
155.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
145 There is no need to say that one of the two home runs was not a grand slam, as there is only one way to score 7 runs on two home runs. A grand slam and a three run home-run.

Or did I miss something?

2006-08-22 18:00:40
156.   Bluebleeder87

did he win?

2006-08-22 18:05:27
157.   Jon Weisman
Game thread is open.
2006-08-23 11:51:17
158.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
Regarding the original post and the Allison Margolin profile:

I emphasize the word profile deliberately, since the reporter is, in this case, trying to paint a picture of the person being profiled. I think that manner of dress and manner of speech, among other things, is fair game. I often find that interviews with movie actors and actresses include details about dress and manner.

I would contrast this with if one was merely quoting Margolin for a general news story about one of her cases (or some legal matter she was commenting upon). In that case (like when Clemente was being asked about baseball in the context of a game report), it would be inappropriate to bring too much characterization about the person being quoted. Just who they are, what role they have, and what they said...

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