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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

August 25 Game Chat
2006-08-25 17:50
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Tonight's Game

Comments (573)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-25 18:00:41
1.   bigcpa
Say Grady visits the mound at the BOB then backtracks 5 paces on the dirt runway, then walks back to the mound. One visit or two?
2006-08-25 18:04:06
2.   Disabled List
What if Grady just shouts at the pitcher from the infield grass? Does that count as a visit?
2006-08-25 18:11:30
3.   Robert Daeley
I'm anticipating Grady, Martin, and Maddux doing the hokey pokey on the mound at some point during the game.
2006-08-25 18:20:13
4.   caseybarker
Man, that was some bad umpiring in the last series.
2006-08-25 18:31:02
5.   Nagman
Nice start to the Padres-Rockies game. Rox first six hitters get hits, 4-1 after one (a DP minimized the damage along with the fact they were all singles I think).
2006-08-25 18:41:43
6.   trainwreck
Hopefully Maddux does better then what he does usually against the D-Backs.

Well that was a good start.

2006-08-25 18:45:46
7.   natepurcell
Jay Dee yay.
2006-08-25 18:45:55
8.   Gen3Blue
Standing up! thats what we need from Furc.
Good-bye. Ok.
2006-08-25 18:47:05
9.   Shovav
Home run belongs to Vin, telling us 4 of his 12 are against D-Backs. Next pitch--over the wall.
2006-08-25 18:47:16
10.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
GameDay just made me happy with the Drew HR!
2006-08-25 18:47:39
11.   Gen3Blue
With this line-up, I feel like we are trying to win!
2006-08-25 18:48:09
12.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
10 I mean GameChannel, actually
2006-08-25 18:48:58
13.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
Suddenly Varga has given up 9 bases in the first inning... Wow...
2006-08-25 18:52:50
14.   s choir
Rockies-Padres, at first glance, is shaping up to be an old-style Coors Field tilt--except there's only one extra base hit.
2006-08-25 18:53:57
15.   Gen3Blue
Loney---maybe. nothing against Garc.
2006-08-25 18:55:27
16.   natepurcell
Looks like we will need a lot of runs tonight.
2006-08-25 18:56:10
17.   Gen3Blue
12 Whats Gamecnhannel? Si,ESPN?
2006-08-25 18:56:54
18.   Andrew Shimmin
Late, but this is the first time I noticed it: RIP Maynard Ferguson.

http://tinyurl.com/kj7bz

2006-08-25 18:58:43
19.   s choir
How does the strike zone look tonight, for those of us without the benefit of TV?
2006-08-25 19:01:58
20.   Andrew Shimmin
19- Looks okay to me, but it has to be really bad before I notice it.
2006-08-25 19:03:22
21.   trainwreck
I got to switch between Dodgers and Raiders game.
2006-08-25 19:03:54
22.   Gen3Blue
When the vibe is down on this D's team, nobody is safe. We really don't have a stopper. I was hoping Bills or Maddux would provide that.
But there is plenty of hope for tonight. Go D's.
2006-08-25 19:05:50
23.   Gen3Blue
Announcer . it's not the location--its just that everything is up!
2006-08-25 19:12:56
24.   Bob Timmermann
The Twins have gotten off the deck and scored four in the sixth to go ahead of the White Sox 4-3.
2006-08-25 19:13:38
25.   natepurcell
nice wilson.
2006-08-25 19:14:08
26.   Bob Timmermann
We could have kept Willy Aybar around for plays like that.
2006-08-25 19:15:47
27.   natepurcell
Stauffer is pitching against the 51s today... still in the first inning, loney has doubled, laroche has homered and 4 runs have scored.

And how did the big league team do against him? bleh.

2006-08-25 19:16:20
28.   trainwreck
So many 2's on the board to go along with number 22 on second base.
2006-08-25 19:18:14
29.   Bob Timmermann
Don't even think we're going to hit the record for combined doubles in a game.

That mark is 23!

2006-08-25 19:18:18
30.   s choir
The ultimate deuces wild matchup ends in a double.
2006-08-25 19:19:23
31.   Bob Timmermann
History's greatest monster, AJ Pierzynski, homers to tie it up for the White Sox against the Twins.
2006-08-25 19:19:44
32.   Gen3Blue
Of course the way its going, I have to have the sound off. I look up from my reading and see poor Kenny waving at a fly ball. I have no idea if he had a chance on it. But he is about our best offensive player outside of Ethier so I forgive him.
2006-08-25 19:20:37
33.   Bob Timmermann
32

Willie Mays would have caught it in 1951.

2006-08-25 19:20:56
34.   Bob Timmermann
33
Actually I meant 1954.
2006-08-25 19:21:34
35.   Bob Timmermann
5-5 in Colorado.
2006-08-25 19:22:30
36.   natepurcell
But he is about our best offensive player outside of Ethier so I forgive him.

based on what numbers?

2006-08-25 19:26:49
37.   Gen3Blue
J.D. when it counts.
2006-08-25 19:28:08
38.   natepurcell
37

it didnt count in the first inning?

2006-08-25 19:28:37
39.   natepurcell
I guess it counted more there. yay jay dee.
2006-08-25 19:29:19
40.   caseybarker
YES! How about that, Jon ;)
2006-08-25 19:29:51
41.   Bob Timmermann
We should ask the Bronx Banter folks when hits count the most by your enigmatic superstar.

Of course, their enigmatic superstar is a lot better than our enigmatic superstar. But he's more enigmatic.

2006-08-25 19:31:45
42.   natepurcell
What is the consensus opinion of arod over there at bronx banter? Is it along the same lines as most yankee fans?
2006-08-25 19:31:46
43.   Gen3Blue
36 Based on nothing concrete, but his average is as good as most. I also think he is about the only one who makes any of our opponents nervous with his speed. Furcal should, but I don't think he does much. Will you allow room for instinct here?
2006-08-25 19:32:16
44.   fanerman
2 home runs by Drew? Wow. Hopefully this will continue.
2006-08-25 19:32:49
45.   trainwreck
Anyone paying attention to A's game?
2006-08-25 19:33:22
46.   still bevens
Is it just me or has Ethier lost all patience on this road trip? He swings at the first pitch in almost every at bat I've seen him in, except one - when he hit the triple.
2006-08-25 19:33:30
47.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 44

If JD gets hot and his power returns to his career norm, we could actually be in pretty good shape.

WWSH

2006-08-25 19:33:45
48.   Linkmeister
Is that pastrami burger from Carl's Jr. really a combination of two burger patties and a pile of pastrami, like it looks to be in the final shot of the ad?
2006-08-25 19:34:00
49.   Mark Linsey
Zito has been quite interesting through his first seven innings tonight.
2006-08-25 19:34:08
50.   natepurcell
43

even with his base stealing abilities, I dont see how he is our second best offensive player. I mean, the average is nice but its as empty of an average as you are going to get.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-25 19:37:30
51.   StolenMonkey86
45 - Gameday reports a 99 degree temperature over there.
2006-08-25 19:39:44
52.   Bob Timmermann
48

That is correct. At my local burger stand, that's called "the Special Burger."

I've tried it twice to make sure that the severe instestinal distress was not happening by chance.

I've not had one since.

2006-08-25 19:41:21
53.   Linkmeister
52 Good (Deity of choice here). Two perfectly good meats, needlessly merged into a single sandwich.
2006-08-25 19:42:07
54.   Gen3Blue
50 I don't have to have him our second best. Furcal has been good and like you said Drew is coming on. I hope Martin comes too soon; somewhere it was suggested that the long Major's season might be getting to him, but I hope it is just a matter of a few more at bats and slump over.
Got no Carl's back here but that pastrami burger looks intiguing.
2006-08-25 19:42:32
55.   trainwreck
Lousy Rangers.
2006-08-25 19:42:43
56.   natepurcell
Vargas serves up extreme tatters.
2006-08-25 19:42:46
57.   Bob Timmermann
54

Do you have a Hardee's?

2006-08-25 19:43:25
58.   Bob Timmermann
Vin seems quite perturbed with Claudio Vargas.
2006-08-25 19:43:49
59.   trainwreck
I had Hardee's in Canada.
2006-08-25 19:44:03
60.   caseybarker
"Taters leave D-backs' pitcher in tatters."
2006-08-25 19:44:07
61.   Gen3Blue
52 Good research. I wouldn't feed it to either of my cats now.
2006-08-25 19:44:23
62.   StolenMonkey86
how about Martin there
2006-08-25 19:44:54
63.   natepurcell
I like the low carb burger from Carls Jr. Haven't really had anything else from there.
2006-08-25 19:44:56
64.   Linkmeister
We only have about three Carl's stores here, and no Hardees. I seem to recall Hardees is mostly SE, although there was one next to a Whataburger right outside the UofA campus in Tucson back in the late 1960s.
2006-08-25 19:45:47
65.   bhsportsguy
I remember 2 years ago when Arizona was so bad that Vin remarked that their club was not a major league quality team and he thought their defense was awful.
2006-08-25 19:45:50
66.   Gen3Blue
54 Lost our Hardee's, but there must be one within 40 miles---do they have the gustatory combo?
2006-08-25 19:46:06
67.   Bob Timmermann
Hardee's = Carl's Jr.
2006-08-25 19:46:26
68.   bhsportsguy
Hey Nate, any concern about Morris, lots of strikeouts but also plenty of hits and walks?
2006-08-25 19:47:06
69.   Gen3Blue
Damn, I better turn up the sound, I've been rapping so hard I missed two runs.
2006-08-25 19:47:48
70.   dkminnick
When did Russell Martin switch to #55? Wasn't Gio wearing that (Orel's number) earlier this season?
2006-08-25 19:47:53
71.   natepurcell
68

Not really. Its rookie ball. Some take more time to adjust then others but the strikeouts do show that he has excellent stuff.

2006-08-25 19:48:15
72.   Gen3Blue
Did I call Martin or what!!
2006-08-25 19:48:53
73.   Bob Timmermann
Carrara has worn 54 this year. Martin has worn 55 all season.
2006-08-25 19:49:49
74.   bhsportsguy
What about Jhonny Nunez, he is an old for a GCL guy (20 years old) but he has had an impressive season.
2006-08-25 19:50:31
75.   tjshere
54 It is only out of my tremendous respect for Jon that I'm able to resist cracking a joke here. Normally there is no way I could pass up a line like that.
2006-08-25 19:52:28
76.   natepurcell
74

Like you said, he is old for the GCL which automatically makes me hesitant about him. He's going to have to prove it next year in Columbus before I get too excited.

how about Bridger Hunt? Right out of college and hitting over .300 in Columbus is impressive IMO.

2006-08-25 19:55:29
77.   Gen3Blue
75 Thanks for your restraint.
2006-08-25 19:55:39
78.   StolenMonkey86
wow, 10 pitch inning, including a hit and a walk
2006-08-25 19:55:55
79.   trainwreck
I wish the Raiders could play the Lions every week.
2006-08-25 19:56:25
80.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 67

With fried chicken instead of Carls' best burger IMO--the western bacon cheeseburger.

Around here, instead of the weird pastrami thing, they instead have a philly cheesesteak burger. Basically the same idea. I've had it, and it really wasn't all the great, although it didn't cause any "intestinal distress." The fried chicken can be a pretty good value, though. And Hardee's also has pretty good biscuits.

I do miss the western bacon, though. I certainly don't value it as much as the In-N-Out double-double, but I usually try to get one when I'm back in LA.

WWSH

2006-08-25 19:57:58
81.   s choir
Anyone hear that bit on the radio re: QuesTec? (the strike zone cameras, which they have in Arizona) An interesting possible explanation for Maddux's struggles at that ballpark.
2006-08-25 19:59:27
82.   trainwreck
81
Don't they have QuesTec at Dodger Stadium?
2006-08-25 19:59:37
83.   Bob Timmermann
Cardinals hold on to first in the Central with a 2-0 win over the Cubs.
2006-08-25 20:01:52
84.   caseybarker
79 or the 49'ers. Art Shell is a good coach.
2006-08-25 20:02:51
85.   Bob Timmermann
9-5 Rockies now.
2006-08-25 20:07:20
86.   Gen3Blue
67,80,etc. You guys are sending me towards the refrigerator. The sandwiches I concoct, coupled with it being 11:10 pm here, almost garauntee gastric distress at some point.
2006-08-25 20:11:22
87.   Gen3Blue
Despite Maddux not being sharp tonight, he still has under 65 pitches. This would not be true of several of our other starters.
2006-08-25 20:13:02
88.   Gen3Blue
Wow, not much range on the right side of the infield, although it might have made no difference on that hit.
2006-08-25 20:13:26
89.   Mark Joseph
Well, if there wasn't yet any tension between the Drew brothers, there is now!
2006-08-25 20:14:27
90.   Bob Timmermann
It's like watching the Angels play!
2006-08-25 20:14:36
91.   Andrew Shimmin
Dear D'backs,

Thank you for running your way out of this inning.

Your buddy,
Greg Maddux

2006-08-25 20:15:39
92.   D4P
Gameday is making it look like Arizona is not making good base-running decisions...
2006-08-25 20:16:13
93.   Bob Timmermann
Oh oh.

It's a matchup between baseball's savviest pitcher and baseball's savviest hitter!

Or at least that's the way Counsell is portrayed.

2006-08-25 20:17:42
94.   Bob Timmermann
Twins take a 5-4 lead in the ninth at Chicago on an RBI single by Jason Bartlett.
2006-08-25 20:18:21
95.   D4P
93
Or at least that's the way Maddux is portrayed.
2006-08-25 20:18:49
96.   caseybarker
Not to be confused with baseball's smartest player.
2006-08-25 20:19:03
97.   Bob Timmermann
The Angels are continuing to infuriate the people at Bronx Banter.
2006-08-25 20:21:28
98.   D4P
Grittle denies Maddux a chance at a Quality Start™
2006-08-25 20:25:52
99.   Mark Joseph
Lofton's average just became a little less empty.
2006-08-25 20:26:50
100.   Mark Joseph
99

But it doesn't do any good. Does anyone know what Nomar's average is when he puts the first pitch of an AB into play?

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-08-25 20:26:59
101.   Gen3Blue
98 It may be a good thing. I didn't see a ball reach the catcher for quite a stretch.
2006-08-25 20:28:29
102.   Gen3Blue
I don't think anyone can deny Kenny's having a good year on offense.
2006-08-25 20:28:54
103.   Bob Timmermann
Coming into the game, Garciaparra was 29 for 82 when hitting the first pitch with four home runs. 909 OPS.
2006-08-25 20:30:44
104.   Andrew Shimmin
100- .354/.372/.537
2006-08-25 20:31:10
105.   Nagman
Vasgersian on the Padre broadcast just brought up the fact that the Dodgers get the Pirates for an extra series while the Padres get the Braves. "Who would you rather face?", he asked (well, it depends, is Baez on the team or not?)

Well, who would you rather face, the Angels or the Mariners? The Twins (who the Dodgers faced) or the Rangers (who the Pads got) in interleague?

2006-08-25 20:32:22
106.   Mark Joseph
103

Thanks. Once again, numbers trump impressions; it has seemed awfully frustrating to see how "often" Nomar has messed up a good scoring chance by making an out on the first pitch.

2006-08-25 20:32:42
107.   Andrew Shimmin
104 continued- He's been HBP three times on a first pitch.
2006-08-25 20:33:57
108.   Mark Joseph
103, 104

How/where did you get that answer so quickly?

2006-08-25 20:35:15
109.   caseybarker
Bob must be near his kitchen.
2006-08-25 20:35:17
110.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres were 2-7 against the Braves.
2006-08-25 20:36:16
111.   Mark Joseph
Time to DFA Gio.
2006-08-25 20:36:36
112.   Bob Timmermann
sports.yahoo.com/mlb

Click on players.

2006-08-25 20:36:41
113.   Andrew Shimmin
108- I used ESPN. It actually took me longer than it needed to because I always forgot to just use the links Jon has provided in the sidebar. Bob probably knew it off the top of his head.
2006-08-25 20:37:20
114.   Bob Timmermann
The Twins won 5-4. The final out was recorded when a White Sox fan leaned out into the field to knock a foul ball out of Justin Morneau's glove.

It was pretty blatant.

2006-08-25 20:38:18
115.   D4P
Gio's not as good as he didn't used to be
2006-08-25 20:39:11
116.   Bob Timmermann
10-5 Rockies now.
2006-08-25 20:40:08
117.   StolenMonkey86
so Maddux is not allowed more than 80 pitches?
2006-08-25 20:40:30
118.   bhsportsguy
A lot of pitches up in the zone tonight.
2006-08-25 20:41:39
119.   bhsportsguy
117 Not when he makes 50 in 3 innings.
2006-08-25 20:41:49
120.   Mark Joseph
112, 113

Cool; thanks.

Tomko has to get Drew out for Maddux to still have a chance for the win.

2006-08-25 20:42:57
121.   caseybarker
13-5 Rocks.
2006-08-25 20:43:20
122.   Gen3Blue
Bob,good to see a fan get called, if thats the way it happened. There have been too many times it hasn't been, thus encouraging interference.
2006-08-25 20:43:26
123.   still bevens
Aren't we facing the much lauded Arizona kiddie corps in this game? Jackson, Drew, and Quentin? There's got to be some others waiting in the wings, correct? Either way AZ looks pretty good and can only get better in the future. Should be fun.
2006-08-25 20:43:51
124.   Mark Joseph
120

Mission accomplished. That was the first strikeout of the game by a Dodger pitcher.

2006-08-25 20:44:23
125.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 120

I hope Tomko's willing to stay in the pen next season. He seems to be thriving there. I think the following rotation could work for 2007:

Lowe
Penny
Bills
Kuo (?)
Maddux (?)

Hopefully Maddux could be signed to a reasonable one year deal. And Kuo's arm will hopefully hold up.

WWSH

2006-08-25 20:46:10
126.   StolenMonkey86
125 - I think Maddux will see more work than Kuo, given that Kuo hasn't pitched nearly as many innings.
2006-08-25 20:46:11
127.   natepurcell
Jackson, Drew, and Quentin? There's got to be some others waiting in the wings, correct?

Chris Young is up, but he isnt in the lineup tonight. Then they have two outfielders, carlos gonzales and justin upton then a catcher Miguel Montero.

2006-08-25 20:48:26
128.   trainwreck
They also have Callaspo (?) the prospect from Angels, but he probably won't get a chance to play with Orlando Hudson there.
2006-08-25 20:48:35
129.   StolenMonkey86
119 - when those are his first 3 innings, that's one thing. But he only needed 35 pitches for his last 3.
2006-08-25 20:49:25
130.   Bob Timmermann
122
The guy leaned out over the railing and almost stuck his hand in Morneau's glove. If the umpire hadn't called it, I think that Ron Gardenhire would have had the umpire killed.
2006-08-25 20:50:21
131.   StolenMonkey86
although the 10 hits and 2 walks aren't very good either, but is Gio gonna be any better?
2006-08-25 20:50:39
132.   Mark Joseph
OK, Monday's being modest, but Steiner just pointed out that he actually hit Carlton well during his career. Anyone have the stats defining "well"?
2006-08-25 20:52:45
133.   StolenMonkey86
It still was not a good game for the Mad Dog. Maddux's game score: 33. If he struck out the side in the 6th and was pulled after that, he'd be getting a game score of 41.
2006-08-25 20:54:11
134.   D4P
133
Seeing as how he didn't strike anyone out in 5 innings, I wouldn't have predicted him striking out "the side" in the 6th
2006-08-25 20:54:30
135.   Mark Joseph
125

I think he will, mostly because he's been thriving out of the pen, whereas he kinda sucked as a starter.

Which, I don't understand. From what I've seen of Tomko (although that is little, as I mostly just listen to the games on radio), his stuff seems to be excellent, and he seems to know what he's doing out there on the mound. Of course, the results have never had him as anything better than a mediocre #5. I wonder why?

2006-08-25 20:55:19
136.   Bob Timmermann
According to Retrosheet, Monday was 15 for 40 with 2 HRs against Carlton.

I would say Rick has a case.

2006-08-25 20:55:32
137.   StolenMonkey86
134 - I wasn't predicting, I was just pointing out that according to the metric, he still wouldn't have had that good a start. Fortunately, Drew and Martin have belted a few.
2006-08-25 20:56:40
138.   D4P
I would say Rick has a case

of the Mondays...?

2006-08-25 20:56:40
139.   Bob Timmermann
Monday was 30 for 86 with 11 home runs against Tom Seaver.
2006-08-25 20:58:38
140.   Mark Joseph
136

Thanks again. Yeah, that's pretty good. Steiner was talking (in general terms) about how well Monday had done against Carlton, and Monday was not only doing the "aw shucks" routine, but talking about how he hated every minute of it.

Makes you wonder which Tim Stauffer-like pitcher owned Monday...

2006-08-25 21:00:52
141.   Bob Timmermann
Jim Merritt held Monday to a 2 for 21 in his career, although he got Monday at the start of his career.

Monday was 4 for 30 against Gene Garber.

2006-08-25 21:01:09
142.   StolenMonkey86
Olmedo with the bases empty and 2 outs
2006-08-25 21:02:28
143.   Bob Timmermann
Monday was 1 for 18 against Tom Bradley, whose effectiveness diminished after beating Sam Yorty in the LA mayoral race in 1973.
2006-08-25 21:03:49
144.   natepurcell
Mark Grace is enamored with Broxton's girth.
2006-08-25 21:04:36
145.   Mark Joseph
143

Beat me both to the stat, and to the inevitable political allusion arising therefrom.

2006-08-25 21:04:36
146.   StolenMonkey86
Dusty Baker would be throwing his hat in disgust. Saenz is clogging up the basepaths now
2006-08-25 21:05:30
147.   Gen3Blue
130 I'm not sure which would be better.
At least we ar5e trying here with Tomato.
tonight, I don't get the feeling one run is going to be enough. I hope I'm wrong.
2006-08-25 21:05:47
148.   StolenMonkey86
although personally I'd pinch run with Lugo
2006-08-25 21:06:46
149.   Andrew Shimmin
Nate- Have any of the D'backs pitching prospects started looking like they might be good?
2006-08-25 21:06:59
150.   Nagman
144 Reading Mark Grace's name and "girth" in the same sentence reminds me of his "slumpbuster" theory.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-08-25 21:07:17
151.   StolenMonkey86
147 - I trust Broxton and Saito
2006-08-25 21:07:23
152.   D4P
The basepaths are now 2/3 clogged
2006-08-25 21:08:22
153.   StolenMonkey86
Repko's a good choice too
2006-08-25 21:08:23
154.   natepurcell
149

Micah Owings was giving me a scare when he was mowing down AA batters in the southern league. then he went to AAA tucson in the PCL and he has fallen apart.

2006-08-25 21:09:28
155.   natepurcell
to add, his era is respectable and his homerun rate is good but his lack of Ks shows me that he wont be a kevin brown type sinker baller.
2006-08-25 21:09:30
156.   Bob Timmermann
153
Repko is full of double-switching goodness.
2006-08-25 21:10:00
157.   Mark Joseph
For all of his, er, unfortunate results as an erstwhile Dodger relief pitcher, Steiner just announced that Danys Baez has undergone an emergency appendectomy, and I wish him a speedy recovery (ditto to Chan Ho).
2006-08-25 21:10:10
158.   Mr Customer
All that speed, nowhere to go...
2006-08-25 21:11:01
159.   Bob Timmermann
157

It must not have been an emergency since it happened yesterday.

2006-08-25 21:11:23
160.   StolenMonkey86
what was that swing for?
2006-08-25 21:11:53
161.   natepurcell
Nomar needs to not swing in that spot.
2006-08-25 21:12:37
162.   Mr Customer
Would it have killed Nomah to lay off that pitch?
2006-08-25 21:13:49
163.   bhsportsguy
I agree on the 2-0 pitch, the 3-1 pitch was a strike from my viewpoint and he just got under it.
2006-08-25 21:14:03
164.   Mark Joseph
139

Wow. Looks like Monday pounded Seaver harder than any pitcher not named Dick Ruthven (20 for 49, 7 HR); I'm not counting Garry Roggenburk, against whom Monday went 4 for 5.

2006-08-25 21:14:07
165.   D4P
Would it have killed Nomah to lay off that pitch?

We'll never know

2006-08-25 21:15:10
166.   bhsportsguy
Nomar is what he is, doesn't walk, doesn't strike out.
2006-08-25 21:15:15
167.   Bob Timmermann
Monday beat up on Steve Renko too.

But so did a lot of guys.

2006-08-25 21:15:52
168.   Gen3Blue
This game has me uptight enough so I had to pace up and dowm my driveway twice before I realized it is raining pretty hard here.
Darn, that looked like a Kenny play.
2006-08-25 21:16:02
169.   Mr Customer
163 It was a straight strike, no doubt, but if you're about to have a Defcon Carter situation on the mound, man, just let it go....
2006-08-25 21:16:49
170.   Bob Timmermann
We're way behind Bronx Banter.

But the Angels-Yankees game will likely take four hours at its pace.

2006-08-25 21:19:20
171.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, Eric Byrnes and I had the same major at UCLA!

What are the odds?

Not that long actually as UCLA has boatloads of history majors.

2006-08-25 21:20:08
172.   Bob Timmermann
Through five innings, the Yankees and Angels have combined to have 26 batters reach base.

It's 4-2 Angels.

It's going to be a long night out in Anaheim.

2006-08-25 21:20:15
173.   Mark Joseph
One last batter-pitcher comment, and I promise to shut up (new toy, gotta play with it). Mays vs. Koufax:
25 for 95, 7 doubles, 1 triple, 4 HR, 23 BB, 20 K, 263/407/484.
2006-08-25 21:22:06
174.   spacebrother
171

I think this is history in the making. I don't know when anyone has fouled so many off Bull.

And then got a hit.

2006-08-25 21:22:49
175.   Nagman
Okay, Byrnes might define "scrappy" more than Repko.
2006-08-25 21:23:47
176.   Bob Timmermann
For comparison, the top 10 majors at UCLA among undergrads in Fall 2004

1 Undeclared 3,306
2 Economics (incl related majors) 2,032
3 Psychology (incl pre-Psychology)2,002
4 Political Science (incl pre-Political Science) 1,804
5 Biology (incl pre-Biology) 1,391
6 History (incl pre-History) 1,212
7 English 1,188
8 Sociology 992
9 Biochemistry & Molecular Biology 798
10 Psychobiology (incl pre-Psychobiology) 710

2006-08-25 21:25:53
177.   Greg Brock
I majored in history, but my minor was in undeclared.
2006-08-25 21:26:02
178.   spacebrother
SAITO! Where are you?
2006-08-25 21:26:39
179.   Bob Timmermann
177

Don't you remember from History 1A? I was the guy in the shirt.

2006-08-25 21:26:42
180.   D4P
176
Both of my undergrad majors are on that list
2006-08-25 21:27:17
181.   Bob Timmermann
Giants up on the Reds 4-1 going to the 9th.
2006-08-25 21:27:45
182.   Greg Brock
179 I knew I recognized you from somewhere.
2006-08-25 21:28:07
183.   Bob Timmermann
I don't like this inning. It's very DBacky.
2006-08-25 21:28:12
184.   s choir
I can't watch this.
2006-08-25 21:29:20
185.   Greg Brock
Sacks drunk.

I wish I was. This is painful.

2006-08-25 21:29:57
186.   D4P
Bases clogged.

I'm glad I'm not.

2006-08-25 21:29:59
187.   Mark Joseph
This would really be a good time for an X23 DP...
2006-08-25 21:30:48
188.   Steve
What is pre-political science?
2006-08-25 21:31:09
189.   Mark Joseph
187

And now would even be better...

2006-08-25 21:31:55
190.   Bob Timmermann
All the "pre-" majors are just what they call undergrads who haven't taken enough upper division classes yet.
2006-08-25 21:31:56
191.   StolenMonkey86
186 - if you want clogged, try a Hardees thickburger
2006-08-25 21:32:22
192.   Greg Brock
{insert vulgarity}
2006-08-25 21:32:23
193.   Mark Joseph
There goes Maddux' W
2006-08-25 21:33:05
194.   StolenMonkey86
bah! Double play would have done it
2006-08-25 21:33:12
195.   caseybarker
That was disappointing.
2006-08-25 21:35:07
196.   caseybarker
My wife really hates the rattle snake noise they play at the BOB. I also think it's annoying.
2006-08-25 21:35:49
197.   Bob Timmermann
Giants win 4-1.
2006-08-25 21:38:05
198.   Greg Brock
Time for one of those patented Dodger home runs.

Stop laughing.

2006-08-25 21:38:24
199.   bhsportsguy
I think the Byrnes at bat really shook Broxton up, in hindsight even if Hudson sacrifices, they walk Gonzalez, if Tracy and Jackson do their thing, he gets out of the inning.

Is it JD Drew's turn to clinch his player of the game?

2006-08-25 21:38:47
200.   Mr Customer
198 That wasn't laughing.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-08-25 21:39:11
201.   bhsportsguy
The Giants are taking their turn at this streakiness thing.
2006-08-25 21:39:14
202.   Bob Timmermann
198

I'm sorry what did you say? I was laughing.

2006-08-25 21:39:46
203.   Bob Timmermann
201

The Giants have now won 1 straight!

2006-08-25 21:39:55
204.   D4P
I was laughing

Out loud, no less

2006-08-25 21:41:08
205.   Greg Brock
Somebody needed to tell Julio he was still on the Mets.

Game would have been ours.

2006-08-25 21:43:16
206.   Bob Timmermann
From the UCLA General Catalog on why to be a History major:

" Opportunities
Leading to a Bachelor of Arts degree, it is excellent preparation for a wide variety of careers -- law, teaching, business, the communications media, public services, and medicine."

I guess I fall under "public services", but wouldn't that include anyone who works for the government?

2006-08-25 21:44:14
207.   Greg Brock
I parlayed my History degree into a lucrative career in interpretive dance.
2006-08-25 21:45:53
208.   bhsportsguy
I often think how my life could have been different if I had been a history major.
2006-08-25 21:45:54
209.   Bob Timmermann
The UCLA history department in my day was a good opportunity to encounter football players deigning to attend class.
2006-08-25 21:46:07
210.   D4P
I guess I fall under "public services", but wouldn't that include anyone who works for the government?

I can think of plenty of people who "work" for the government that aren't really "serving" the "public"

2006-08-25 21:47:04
211.   Bob Timmermann
The info for the philosophy major says "it is not designed for careers."
2006-08-25 21:47:59
212.   Bob Timmermann
210

Bob Dylan said, "You've got to serve somebody."

2006-08-25 21:48:30
213.   StolenMonkey86
211 - lol
2006-08-25 21:49:04
214.   spacebrother
212

But that was in his temporary insanity phase.

2006-08-25 21:49:20
215.   caseybarker
210 I'm sure we all could, but then we'd probably all be thinking of different people.
2006-08-25 21:50:09
216.   StolenMonkey86
Elmer's glue held up
2006-08-25 21:50:20
217.   capdodger
That was the same pitch three times. How could Clark act so surprised?
2006-08-25 21:51:19
218.   lakerican
Good time for a HR by Bet...
2006-08-25 21:54:23
219.   Bob Timmermann
Oh no, the scapperiffic Byrnes leads off in the 10th!

We're doomed!

2006-08-25 21:54:54
220.   Bob Timmermann
If I'm going to coin a word, I should spell it correctly.

Scrapperiffic.

2006-08-25 21:55:48
221.   King of the Hobos
It appears Mark Alexander has been sent back to Jacksonville, likely to serve as their closer for the end of the season and post season. His demotion makes it even more unlikely that he will see the majors this year.
2006-08-25 21:56:59
222.   librarian
Hrmm. Line drive. I'd say that was more sort of "scraptabulous."
2006-08-25 21:57:58
223.   Bob Timmermann
222
Not a sock puppet.
2006-08-25 22:01:24
224.   Mr Customer
223 How can you be sure?
2006-08-25 22:01:40
225.   capdodger
That's the most pathetic "Beat LA" chant I've ever heard.
2006-08-25 22:02:02
226.   Greg Brock
Man, Furcal absolutely hosed up right there. That ball was humming.
2006-08-25 22:02:31
227.   caseybarker
Not as bad, though, as when Padre fans started it down 1-0 in the first.
2006-08-25 22:02:43
228.   StolenMonkey86
incidentally, Andy Laroche homered for Vegas tonight batting 6th, 2 run shot, as he went 1-4 with a K. He made a fielding error but also started a double play.

Other players of note:

Kemp 0-4
Loney 1-3, BB, 2B, R, RBI
Young 1-4, 2B, K, GIDP

2006-08-25 22:04:38
229.   librarian
Funny, I was just thinking the Dodgers were giving Gonzo too much credit with all the walks - then everything goes according to script.
2006-08-25 22:07:21
230.   StolenMonkey86
I like the Lugo ph here
2006-08-25 22:09:04
231.   librarian
230

In the sense that he's a better pick than Hall? Not much left on the bench just now.

2006-08-25 22:11:50
232.   fanerman
Drew will come through.
2006-08-25 22:14:00
233.   Andrew Shimmin
Furry was dead-bang out.
2006-08-25 22:14:35
234.   Greg Brock
When Furcal broke for second on the first pitch, had a huge jump, and Lugo fouled off a ball low and away, I cringed. Methinks the inning might have been a little different.
2006-08-25 22:15:08
235.   Bob Timmermann
234
I was expecting a 1200 word treatise on why Lugo shouldn't have swung.
2006-08-25 22:16:26
236.   Greg Brock
235 I stick to the one-liners. I leave the treatises for others.
2006-08-25 22:16:54
237.   Greg Brock
234 Let's hear it for moot points!
2006-08-25 22:17:01
238.   spacebrother
Scrapperific Drew
2006-08-25 22:17:11
239.   librarian
Hooray!
2006-08-25 22:17:11
240.   Bob Timmermann
236

Yes, I left out that it would be from someone else.

The Toby Hall treatise checked in at 1,233 words.

2006-08-25 22:17:34
241.   capdodger
DREW!! WOOT!
2006-08-25 22:17:44
242.   fanerman
Drew did come through.
2006-08-25 22:18:42
243.   StolenMonkey86
3-6, 2 R, 4 RBI, 9 TB

nice

2006-08-25 22:18:55
244.   capdodger
233 It looked like one of those "ball is early, tag is late" plays.
2006-08-25 22:19:55
245.   capdodger
Well... I'm gonna call it a night. Need to beat the traffic...
2006-08-25 22:20:21
246.   StolenMonkey86
Enter Saito
2006-08-25 22:21:23
247.   Bob Timmermann
Bronx Banter is closing in on 500 comments.
2006-08-25 22:21:45
248.   StolenMonkey86
Lugo as defensive replacement. Grady learns
2006-08-25 22:22:46
249.   Disabled List
Just got home, was surprised to see the game was still on, and I made it just in time for Drew's RBI.

Looking over box score... Drew's having a nice game, Nomar is not (6 LOB??), Maddux was in midseason form (not a good thing), it's nice to have Saito in now, but maybe he should've come in in the 8th inning.

2006-08-25 22:24:10
250.   spacebrother
C'mon Saito. The crowd wants to go home with frowns.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-08-25 22:24:31
251.   trainwreck
Come on!
2006-08-25 22:24:43
252.   Disabled List
Ye gods...
2006-08-25 22:24:47
253.   Gen3Blue
B on balls in that situation. Its over. and the view of Kent showed that he knew it too.
Good night.
2006-08-25 22:25:19
254.   Mr Customer
This is very, very frustrating.
2006-08-25 22:25:49
255.   fanerman
What happened?
2006-08-25 22:26:28
256.   Greg Brock
247 When they get 220 comments out of a Rudy Seanez DFA thread, I'll be impressed.
2006-08-25 22:26:36
257.   Nagman
Is a 1b mitt supposed to be so floppy? It seems like Nomar's mitt is especially floppy (for lack of a better word).

His first error of the season was a ball that practically took the mitt off his hand.

2006-08-25 22:26:42
258.   Bob Timmermann
Sacrifice and error. 1st and 3rd with no outs.
2006-08-25 22:26:50
259.   StolenMonkey86
bah
2006-08-25 22:28:17
260.   D4P
Bronx Banter, here we come!
2006-08-25 22:28:20
261.   Mr Customer
I think I'll step into the kitchen for an extra helping of bitter disappointment.
2006-08-25 22:28:30
262.   Bob Timmermann
At least Repko hit the cutoff man!
2006-08-25 22:28:30
263.   trainwreck
I guess I picked a good time to start drinking.
2006-08-25 22:30:20
264.   spacebrother
Make it stop.
2006-08-25 22:30:35
265.   Nagman
Saito appears to be overthrowing.
2006-08-25 22:30:52
266.   Steve
Clearly on purpose. Throw him out, ump. Look good doing it.
2006-08-25 22:31:38
267.   librarian
This grows painful.
2006-08-25 22:31:41
268.   Mr Customer
265 If you're quiet enough, you'll probably here me overthrowing, as well.
2006-08-25 22:32:04
269.   fanerman
Oi. This is not good.
2006-08-25 22:32:43
270.   StolenMonkey86
that's what he meant to throw to Estrada
2006-08-25 22:33:14
271.   spacebrother
God, not Byrnes again.
2006-08-25 22:33:40
272.   Bob Timmermann
If Byrnes gets a game-winning hit here, I'm getting my diploma out of the drawer and crossing out "History" and writing in something like "Death to Arizona!"
2006-08-25 22:33:52
273.   Andrew Shimmin
I love Eric Byrnes. He's a nutcase, sure, but I love him. If Saito throws it far enough out of the strike zone, I bet Byrnes would dive for it.
2006-08-25 22:34:01
274.   Nagman
271. Seems like every time you look up, he's in the on deck circle. He and Barry Bonds.
2006-08-25 22:36:09
275.   spacebrother
Here we go again. Can't he foul one into his foot and leave the game?
2006-08-25 22:36:36
276.   spacebrother
Or do that.
2006-08-25 22:36:47
277.   Mr Customer
274 Or David Eckstein.
2006-08-25 22:36:52
278.   StolenMonkey86
25 pitches for that inning from Saito
2006-08-25 22:37:22
279.   Bob Timmermann
My diploma is safe.

For now.

2006-08-25 22:37:47
280.   Greg Brock
There was so much angst on that play, my brain shut down and proceeded to play Ethel Merman tunes. Next thing I knew, the Dodgers were out of the inning.
2006-08-25 22:38:01
281.   Mr Customer
I nearly prayed for the swift mercy of a walk off. That was harrowing.
2006-08-25 22:38:24
282.   Steve
Let's not do that again.
2006-08-25 22:39:00
283.   Disabled List
MLB.tv now has muzak and some announcements/advertising during the commercial breaks. Don't know how I feel about that.

The Arizona announcers are terrible, btw.

2006-08-25 22:39:24
284.   Travis
Is something wrong with Mo? First he wasn't available in Game 1 in Seattle, now Dotel and Myers are warming up.
2006-08-25 22:39:47
285.   Mr Customer
280 & 207 I can't wait for the stage adaptation.
2006-08-25 22:39:47
286.   Travis
284 That should have been in the Banter thread, obviously.
2006-08-25 22:40:17
287.   CeyHey
who's left in the dodger pen?
2006-08-25 22:40:36
288.   Bob Timmermann
Aaron Sele is available.
2006-08-25 22:41:32
289.   Greg Brock
No problem Travis. I'll be over at Banter discussing Broxton and Saito in a few minutes.

Meetcha over there.

2006-08-25 22:42:05
290.   Mr Customer
287 and Beimel
2006-08-25 22:42:07
291.   Steve
280- that's good angst.
2006-08-25 22:42:18
292.   spacebrother
C'mon guys, four losses in a row is very bad form.
2006-08-25 22:42:19
293.   bhsportsguy
Only Tomko and Dessens have been able go 1-2-3 so far.
2006-08-25 22:42:20
294.   Nagman
And Biemel.
2006-08-25 22:42:47
295.   Andrew Shimmin
Does college football really start tomorrow?
2006-08-25 22:42:52
296.   ryu
Save for an Angel run in the bottom of the 9th, Anaheim and New York will go into extra innings.
2006-08-25 22:43:24
297.   Greg Brock
285 The world isn't ready for a one man show featuring Ethel Merman and interpretive dance.

Lord knows I'm ready when it is.

2006-08-25 22:44:31
298.   Bob Timmermann
295

I thought it started on August 31.

2006-08-25 22:45:40
299.   Bob Timmermann
297

You'll be swell! You'll be great!
Gonna have the whole world on the plate!
Starting here, starting now,
honey, everything's coming up roses!

Clear the decks! Clear the tracks!
You've got nothing to do but relax.
Blow a kiss. Take a bow.
Honey, everything's coming up roses!

Now's your inning. Stand the world on it's ear!
Set it spinning! That'll be just the beginning!
Curtain up! Light the lights!
You got nothing to hit but the heights!
You'll be swell. You'll be great.
I can tell. Just you wait.
That lucky star I talk about is due!
Honey, everything's coming up roses for me and for you!

2006-08-25 22:46:42
300.   spacebrother
Wasn't Byrnes supposed to be up?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-08-25 22:46:51
301.   Andrew Shimmin
There's a UCLA vs. Washington game on FSNPT tomorrow at 2. Fresno St. vs. USC at 6. I know they rerun old games, but usually those are marked as classics.
2006-08-25 22:47:42
302.   Brad Bogner
These other announcers are so god awful, that when Vin Scully is unfortunately unable to announce games, I don't see myself being very interested in baseball anymore.
2006-08-25 22:48:02
303.   Disabled List
It's a quarter to two, Sele just gave up a hit on the first pitch, and Ethel Merman lyrics have been quoted on DT.

I think it's time for bed.

2006-08-25 22:49:06
304.   Greg Brock
303 It's time do dance!

Interpretively, of course. Um, go Dodgers.

2006-08-25 22:49:12
305.   Bob Timmermann
301

Division I-A football starts on August 31 when Boston College plays at Central Michigan at 3 pm PT.

2006-08-25 22:49:34
306.   Nagman
Would it have made sense for Beimel to pitch this inning? Hudson (s), followed by two lefties. Then if it goes longer, you have Sele to finish it.
2006-08-25 22:50:21
307.   Steve
297 - If the world is not ready for that, what good is the world?
2006-08-25 22:51:51
308.   Mark Joseph
Chad Tracy, the designated DP escape hatch. Dodgers vote him a half-share of their World Series money.
2006-08-25 22:52:10
309.   Linkmeister
I switched back to this after dinner (local, national, local and the News Hour intervening) and was astonished to find it in the 11th inning. When I turned over to news it was bases loaded and no outs in the 8th for the DBacks.

What'd I miss?

2006-08-25 22:52:22
310.   StolenMonkey86
13th inning

with any success Nomar should see plate appearance #7 of the night here

2006-08-25 22:53:39
311.   Mr Customer
297 I'm still having trouble quencing the hysterical laughter.

The line was good, but what I really can't shake is the mental image of the official Greg Brock performing it.

2006-08-25 22:54:12
312.   spacebrother
Repko showing some discipline. Who'd a' thunk?
2006-08-25 22:54:23
313.   Steve
Its about time we got something in return from the extended Tracy clan.
2006-08-25 22:54:30
314.   Bob Timmermann
Mike Napoli's name is being cursed on Bronx Banter right now.
2006-08-25 22:57:39
315.   trainwreck
Dang them for no longer having Shawn Green.
2006-08-25 22:57:45
316.   Greg Brock
Don't worry guys. Only nine more hard throwing right handed Latino relievers to face before we break the D-Backs bullpen.
2006-08-25 22:58:20
317.   spacebrother
No TV here. Anyone know how many left in the stadium?
2006-08-25 22:59:12
318.   Bob Timmermann
315

That's Mr. Green now.

2006-08-25 22:59:27
319.   Andrew Shimmin
In case anybody was curious, the Banterers decided there was nothing wrong with Rivera that firing Joe Torre wouldn't solve.
2006-08-25 22:59:48
320.   Steve
Only seven of them are named E. Gonzalez
2006-08-25 23:00:39
321.   Mr Customer
Stop that!
2006-08-25 23:02:14
322.   joekings
Our situation has not improved.
2006-08-25 23:02:17
323.   Travis
314 Mike Napoli? Try Joe Torre and the home plate umpire.
2006-08-25 23:02:22
324.   Andrew Shimmin
There should be a law against moronic use of the PA system after 11 p.m. The demographic you're trying to entertain went to bed already. The rest of us shouldn't have to put up with it.
2006-08-25 23:04:45
325.   bhsportsguy
You just take the out and then you walk Estrada, and face Livan Hernandez.
2006-08-25 23:05:00
326.   Nagman
Oh no, look who's on deck.
2006-08-25 23:05:24
327.   Greg Brock
324 Well said.

Fan law?

Fan law.

2006-08-25 23:05:24
328.   Mr Customer
This is looking iffy.
2006-08-25 23:06:20
329.   D4P
Bunting in that situation seems pretty stoopid
2006-08-25 23:06:23
330.   Greg Brock
If the Backs win on a suicide squeeze, I will be most displeased.
2006-08-25 23:06:24
331.   joekings
We're going to get beat by a pitcher batting.
2006-08-25 23:06:24
332.   spacebrother
Goodnight.
2006-08-25 23:06:32
333.   Steve
324 - I'm still up.
2006-08-25 23:07:39
334.   Nagman
Quick, somebody go rescue Bob's diploma!
2006-08-25 23:07:54
335.   joekings
You knew it would be Byrnes.
2006-08-25 23:07:56
336.   Bob Timmermann
Diploma promise no longer applicable after 11 pm.
2006-08-25 23:07:58
337.   bhsportsguy
Mr. Scrappy again.
2006-08-25 23:09:34
338.   joekings
I dont believe it.
2006-08-25 23:09:43
339.   Greg Brock
Everything's coming up roses.
2006-08-25 23:09:57
340.   Mr Customer
This can't be healthy.
2006-08-25 23:09:59
341.   Andrew Shimmin
Wasn't he already out, since there was a runner on first?
2006-08-25 23:10:33
342.   bhsportsguy
Just what you were waiting for Lyon vs. Beimel.
2006-08-25 23:10:56
343.   Travis
341 Not with 2 outs.
2006-08-25 23:11:21
344.   bhsportsguy
341 I'm not sure but since the umpire made the out signal, I guess not.
2006-08-25 23:12:41
345.   Steve
This is the guy. He's from utah.
2006-08-25 23:12:41
346.   bhsportsguy
The only way Hall doesn't bat is if Nomar and Drew hit home runs.
2006-08-25 23:13:28
347.   Franklin Stubbs
I don't know if I've ever seen a force out at home on a dropped 3rd strike.
2006-08-25 23:13:49
348.   Franklin Stubbs
Man a 3rd homer wouldda been great for JD!!
2006-08-25 23:14:55
349.   PDH5204
234 Yes, Greg, and I cringed too [add also the obligatory off color remark].

235 No need for another treatise, Bob, since now we can simply mimeograph the one posted and hand it to Julio for further review. He even gets to smell it, hot off the press.

2006-08-25 23:15:15
350.   Franklin Stubbs
I remember Vinny talk about that longest game the Dodgers played in Montreal ... maybe we'll beat that. But it is hard to imagine as that was scoreless until the end and this is ugly to the end.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-08-25 23:15:29
351.   Steve
If you can't hit last years closer of the month club retread from Utah, that's a bad sign.
2006-08-25 23:15:50
352.   JoeyP
Does Bob Melvin author a book titled "Baseball Managing for Dummies"?
2006-08-25 23:16:19
353.   librarian
Can we assume that Beimel is simply unavailable at this point, and that Sele's gonna just run through the rest of the game?
2006-08-25 23:18:01
354.   Mark Joseph
346

Wrong.

2006-08-25 23:18:05
355.   Nagman
I did the math and it's impossible that Byrnes will bat this inning.
2006-08-25 23:18:06
356.   Bob Timmermann
350
In the long 1989 game in Montreal, the Dodgers set a record by playing 22 innings and never once drawing a walk.
2006-08-25 23:18:38
357.   Steve
I thought beimel pitched already but I've been in and out.
2006-08-25 23:18:43
358.   Franklin Stubbs
Enjoy that Gonzo. He could have hit that single the other times you were up with the game on the line!!
2006-08-25 23:19:10
359.   Bob Timmermann
For all our worries about Byrnes, I should point out that he's 2 for 8 now.
2006-08-25 23:19:18
360.   Mark Joseph
353

I'm guessing that Beimel is OK, and Grady is just going with the "this may go on a while, so I'm going with a starter who can give me a bunch of innings" theory.

2006-08-25 23:19:52
361.   bhsportsguy
Is it me or during this little downturn, we are not getting the corners?
2006-08-25 23:22:24
362.   grandcosmo
Why is Martin setting up outside the strike zone on a 3-1 count?
2006-08-25 23:22:35
363.   Bob Timmermann
I hope that Arizona doesn't approach the single game record for LOB.

That's 27 by the Braves in a 20-inning game in 1973.

2006-08-25 23:23:08
364.   librarian
360: Sure - I just remain surprised that he didn't trot out Beimel for an inning or two before turning to the distance runner. Must be hard on a guy, being the one dude on the club that does'nt pitch in a 14-inning game where the starter only went 5.
2006-08-25 23:23:13
365.   Franklin Stubbs
Bob -- seriously you add a lot to these chats. Thank you. No walks in 22 innings. Things were different pre Money Ball. NO WALKS in 22 innings? that just sounds soooo unlikely. Amazing. I bet Vinny said something funny about that at the time. I mean in San Fran he talked about Eliszer Alfonzo a million times cause he has walked once!
2006-08-25 23:23:59
366.   Greg Brock
Wow, 4 hours 45 minutes. This is like six innings of a Yankees/Sox game
2006-08-25 23:24:07
367.   Franklin Stubbs
Considering the popularity of Mexican food in Arizona...the crowd probably really is full of beans. :-)
2006-08-25 23:24:58
368.   Bob Timmermann
365
Vin wasn't at the 22-inning game. Ross Porter did all 22 innings on the radio by himself as Don Drysdale was sick. I listened to the whole game with my grandmother.

The Dodgers didn't draw a walk that night because they had a really bad lineup.

2006-08-25 23:26:01
369.   Steve
Drew looks like a pre political science major.
2006-08-25 23:26:50
370.   Bob Timmermann
Arizona could win the game and still leave 21 runners on base.
2006-08-25 23:27:10
371.   Franklin Stubbs
368- yeah that was a bad year. Rick Dempsey won it right on a homer? I think I knew that Ross did that whole game. Man I miss him.
2006-08-25 23:27:45
372.   Greg Brock
As frustrating as it is for we Dodger fans, imagine being an Arizona fan.
2006-08-25 23:27:53
373.   Longhorn Bill
Sele is clutch tonight
2006-08-25 23:27:59
374.   JoeyP
Arizona sucks.
2006-08-25 23:28:10
375.   Steve
Wow.
2006-08-25 23:28:12
376.   bhsportsguy
C'mon, I mean this game is begging to be taken. Just think about the karma.
2006-08-25 23:28:20
377.   Mark Joseph
It is not a coincidence that Aaron Sele rhymes with Harry Houdini.
2006-08-25 23:28:47
378.   bhsportsguy
Maybe they should have tried a squeeze play.
2006-08-25 23:28:50
379.   D4P
The sum of AZ's LOB column in the Gameday box score is now at 42
2006-08-25 23:29:06
380.   Mr Customer
How have we managed not to lose this game, so far? It's stupendous!
2006-08-25 23:29:08
381.   Longhorn Bill
This is beginning to remind me of the marathon in Houston, which I happened to be at.... hopefully this will be more rewarding.
2006-08-25 23:29:24
382.   Bob Timmermann
OK, now it's getting scary.

Here is the boxscore from the 27 LOB game:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B05040PHI1973.htm

2006-08-25 23:30:10
383.   Greg Brock
Alright, fanerman. Time for a "3.5's getting it done" prediction.
2006-08-25 23:30:17
384.   Mark Joseph
368

I just looked up the game (I'm getting better at using Retrosheet). Alfredo Griffin led off for the Dodgers and went 0 for 9. That's a good start on not drawing any walks.

2006-08-25 23:30:28
385.   librarian
373: "C-l-u-t-c-h" is a hilarious way to spell "giving me angina."
2006-08-25 23:30:29
386.   Greg Brock
Nevermind
2006-08-25 23:30:59
387.   JoeyP
Arizona deserves to lose this game on a Jason Repko InsidetheParkHomer.

They then deserve to lose like their next 5 games at least.

I never thought I'd see another Jim Tracy.
But I have.

Long live Bob Melvin!

2006-08-25 23:32:46
388.   Longhorn Bill
haha as it turns out clutch and angina proviking situations happen to be interchangable
2006-08-25 23:33:02
389.   Mark Joseph
As an on-again, off-again DT follower (because of lack of time, not lack of interest), I don't know all of the argot. I've figured out some of it, but I would like to know why Ethier is referred to as "3.5". Could someone enlighten me?
2006-08-25 23:33:29
390.   Steve
Bets on Toby Hall pitching tonight?
2006-08-25 23:34:05
391.   Mr Customer
So, we can't buy a baserunner, and yet we spot them 1st and 2nd every inning? How is that fair?
2006-08-25 23:34:13
392.   Disabled List
At least the Dodgers aren't leaving anybody on base. Of course, we aren't getting anybody on base...
2006-08-25 23:34:20
393.   Greg Brock
389 There was much debate whether Eithier was a fourth outfielder or a starter.

Hence, 3.5 was coined by some genius. His name escapes me.

2006-08-25 23:35:07
394.   Franklin Stubbs
I'm having a great time. I think they should let teams "deputize" coaches....seriously I'd love to see Mariano Duncan take some hacks. Maybe get Rick Honeycutt pitch to Bob Melvin?
2006-08-25 23:35:41
395.   Mr Customer
Hoorah for hits. Next!
2006-08-25 23:35:49
396.   Nagman
I actually hope we see Toby Hall for nine innings tomorrow night.
2006-08-25 23:36:08
397.   JoeyP
THe legend of Martin will grow if he steals 2nd after catching 15 innings, and then is driven home on a blooper by Repko.
2006-08-25 23:37:20
398.   Mr Customer
394 If the game goes on long enough, the rosters will expand, and there will be a whole slew of new pitchers to trot out.
2006-08-25 23:37:41
399.   Steve
Honeycutt left his thumbtack at home.
2006-08-25 23:37:43
400.   Mark Joseph
382

Nice. The Braves managed to turn 17 hits (including 3 doubles and a homer), 10 walks and 3 HBP into four runs. They deserved to lose. Just like the D'Backs tonight.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-08-25 23:38:46
401.   Bob Timmermann
400
Don't forget the four errors the Phillies made as well.
2006-08-25 23:39:13
402.   Mark Joseph
393

That's what I was guessing. Thanks!

2006-08-25 23:39:35
403.   Franklin Stubbs
I was convinced Livan Hernandez was going to win the game for the Snakes. He looks like he has expanded as much as Barry Bonds but with food not the clear...
2006-08-25 23:39:57
404.   Longhorn Bill
anybody know if there was a 14th inning stretch?
2006-08-25 23:41:03
405.   Mark Joseph
401

Arggh. I forgot that. Thanks! Dick Ruthven started that game for the Phillies, so I've now mentioned him twice tonight!

2006-08-25 23:41:11
406.   Bob Timmermann
400
Five future managers played in that 1973 game: Johnny Oates, Davey Johnson, Dusty Baker, Bob Boone, and Larry Bowa.
2006-08-25 23:42:12
407.   Linkmeister
Story about Shawn Green the Jewish ballplayer in the NYT:

http://tinyurl.com/rja7c

It mentions Shamsky and Blomberg from the Mets/Yankees of the 1970s; I'd pretty much forgotten them. Koufax and Greenberg are covered.

2006-08-25 23:43:00
408.   Longhorn Bill
please don't walk lyon
2006-08-25 23:43:22
409.   Mr Customer
407 Once again, the Griddle has been thoughtlessly spurned.
2006-08-25 23:43:27
410.   Nagman
Things were going much too smoothly for Sele.
2006-08-25 23:43:29
411.   still bevens
381 Hey Longhorn Bill I was at that game in Houston too! I stayed through the whole game but figured it was going to end up being a heartbreaker, and I was right. The only good game of that entire series was Nomar's grand slam off of Lidge, which made the whole series worth it in spite of dropping 2.
2006-08-25 23:43:33
412.   Franklin Stubbs
"at least the first guy made out." -- Vin

"he walked in his first career at bat he walks. what a ballgame. Wouldn't you know it!" -- Vin

I love it!

2006-08-25 23:43:40
413.   Greg Brock
407 See: Griddle
2006-08-25 23:43:40
414.   JoeyP
Byrnes' batting for the 9th time tonite.
2006-08-25 23:43:44
415.   Mark Joseph
408

Too late!

2006-08-25 23:44:16
416.   librarian
404: Everyone knows that Taft started the 7th inning tretch, 'cause his leg hurt. Less well known is that Warren Harding started the 14th-inning tretch because he really needed to pee. You can look it up! (And thereby prove it's not true.)
2006-08-25 23:44:33
417.   Steve
The only actual pitch out of the strike zone to Lyon was the one the umpire called a strike.
2006-08-25 23:46:05
418.   Mr Customer
416 Clearly false. Warren G. Harding was dead by the 14th inning.
2006-08-25 23:46:25
419.   Linkmeister
Rats. Sorry, Bob.
2006-08-25 23:47:30
420.   Andrew Shimmin
A fifty dollar book of Union Oil auto script to the Long Beach Retarded Children's Foundation in Long Beach. Rats.
2006-08-25 23:47:41
421.   Linkmeister
Oh, fudge.
2006-08-25 23:47:42
422.   librarian
gahhhhh.
2006-08-25 23:47:52
423.   JoeyP
Bob Melvin did not deserve to win this game.
2006-08-25 23:47:56
424.   Mr Customer
That sucks.
2006-08-25 23:48:00
425.   Longhorn Bill
...cracking beer
2006-08-25 23:48:33
426.   Franklin Stubbs
Arrg. Bud Selig hates the Dodgers.

;-)

2006-08-25 23:48:47
427.   Greg Brock
Did we win?
2006-08-25 23:48:53
428.   Linkmeister
I hate extra innings games on the road.
2006-08-25 23:49:20
429.   skybluestoday
Well, that was certainly frustrating. On the other hand, I generally have zero expectations for the Dodgers to win anything whatsoever in extra innings these days. Sigh.
2006-08-25 23:49:50
430.   librarian
Dodgers now 1-905 in extra innings this season.
2006-08-25 23:49:51
431.   Nagman
I think the Dodgers hate extra inning games. Isn't that something like 1-7 now?
2006-08-25 23:50:09
432.   Berkeley Doug
Let's be thankful that the Padres lost and let's get them tomorrow.
2006-08-25 23:50:36
433.   Steve
That was pretty much foreordained. We were definitely lame enough not to take advantage of the stupid bunt rule.
2006-08-25 23:51:23
434.   Bob Timmermann
418
Why are you apologizing to me?
2006-08-25 23:51:46
435.   Uncle Miltie
Just got home. Looks like Nomar had a terrible game. Ever since I left for college, the Dodgers have been awful. Am I a jinx?
2006-08-25 23:52:25
436.   librarian
431: I'm pretty sure your numbers are more accurate than mine.
2006-08-25 23:53:20
437.   Linkmeister
434 If you mean 419, because I posted a link to the same NYT story about Shawn Green that you'd already posted to the Griddle.
2006-08-25 23:55:44
438.   Steve
Sun sets in west. Bob Melvin dumber than dirt. No peace in the Middle East. News at 11.
2006-08-26 00:02:23
439.   Andrew Shimmin
Longer than tonight's game: Virgin Atlantic Flight 63 delay (http://tinyurl.com/qzx2t). On a side note, who waits seven hours to riot? Wouldn't the two hour mark be the right time for rioting?
2006-08-26 00:02:27
440.   Greg Brock
437 Usurper of the Griddle.
2006-08-26 00:03:49
441.   Uncle Miltie
This is what we should have been doing against Piazza anytime someone was on base

SB - K Matsui (3, 2nd base off M Thompson/M Piazza), R Spilborghs (3, 2nd base off D Brocail/M Piazza), M Holliday 2 (9, 2nd base off S Williamson/M Piazza, 3rd base off S Williamson/M Piazza), B Hawpe (4, 2nd base off S Williamson/M Piazza), C Freeman (3, 2nd base off S Williamson/M Piazza)

2006-08-26 00:06:11
442.   Andrew Shimmin
Maggie Gyllenhaal is pregnant? Huh.
2006-08-26 00:10:38
443.   Greg Brock
Oh, well. At least I get to watch Arsenal beat up on Manchester City tomorrow.

Yeah, it's soccer. So what? Wanna fight about it?

2006-08-26 00:19:23
444.   Xeifrank
wow, that was an interesting game. The folks watching in Connecticut had to stay up late to see the ending. I turned it on in time to see Nomar's terrible at bat with the bases loaded. Swung at a 2-0 pitch and a 3-1 pitch then made out. Then the dumb bunt by the DBacks with the winning run already at 2nd base and the pitcher's spot in the hole (with no non pitcher pinch hitter available). Sele sealed the lameness of this game by walking Brandon Lyon who had never had a major league at bat. It turned out to be the play that lost the game. Oh, and Betemit made another bad throw. vr, Xei
2006-08-26 00:20:19
445.   Xeifrank
443. Soccer? Sounds good to me, beats golf and poker any time of the week. vr, Xei
2006-08-26 00:21:23
446.   Xeifrank
Oh yeah and one thing I actually enjoyed about this game. I was able to eat dessert about three times. vr, Xei
2006-08-26 00:37:31
447.   fanerman
That was disappointing, but by the 12th inning, I was no longer expecting a win.
2006-08-26 02:51:09
448.   the OZ
Me, at a bar in Santa Monica after my softball game, immediately before the Dodger game's end, verbatim:

"Hey, Orlando Hudson is up. He might hit a home run. But he probably won't."

2006-08-26 02:52:06
449.   the OZ
Also, why is there a "Jesse McCartney Ultimate Prank" ad on Dodger Thoughts? I'm afraid to read through all the comments now.
2006-08-26 08:55:51
450.   Eric Enders
Wow, what a great game. It was like taking a punch in the nuts, but still, great game if you're a baseball fan. Haven't read through the thread yet, but I suppose people are going to be all over Sele for walking the pitcher. Sure, that was bad, but IMO the greater part of the blame falls on Nomar, who had what I think was the worst at-bat by any Dodger this season in the top of the 8th. You have a 2-0 count, a pitcher who can't throw a strike to save his life, all you need is a walk to drive in the winning run, and yet you swing at a breaking pitch two feet outside the strike zone. There is no excuse -- none -- for even thinking of swinging at a pitch in that situation. If Nomar takes that pitch, the next pitch is ball four instead of ball three and the Dodgers win in regulation.

It was also a long night for Steve Henson, who in addition to one of the lamer ledes in recent memory on his game story, screwed up the following passage in his notes column:

"Should the Dodgers make the playoffs, they would have 29 players to choose from in building a 25-man roster — the active players as of Sept. 1 and minor league replacements for Eric Gagne, Jayson Werth, Yhency Brazoban and Bill Mueller, who are on the disabled list. Mueller has all but given up his attempt to rejoin the team as a pinch-hitter because his right knee simply won't cooperate.

The additional four openings would mean that players who contributed earlier in the year but were sent to triple A for seasoning could be eligible for the playoffs despite not being on the roster Sept. 1. Strong candidates include outfielder Matt Kemp, first baseman James Loney and left-handed pitcher Hong-Chih Kuo."

The Dodgers would have about 150 players to choose from, not 29, and as we know, they need not have been up earlier in the season as Henson claims. Tight deadline or no tight deadline, there's not much of an excuse for messing that up.

That said, I think Steve has clearly done a better job covering the Dodgers this year than he did last.

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2006-08-26 09:08:34
451.   D4P
I hereby propose the following as #13 on Jon's "Thank You for Not" list below:

Posting a news item without first checking to see whether it has already been posted on The Griddle

2006-08-26 09:23:06
452.   Bob Timmermann
451
Thanks, but I've decided to just let things like that pass.
2006-08-26 10:09:06
453.   Jon Weisman
451 - What was 11 and 12?
2006-08-26 10:14:42
454.   D4P
11 was posting while drunk and 12 was posting while pretending to be drunk
2006-08-26 10:18:03
455.   Jon Weisman
Oh yeah. Posting while drunk is okay if you can post coherently. I'd rather you post drunk than drive drunk.

So 11 would be posting incoherently.

No. 12 is okay, although I think that could fall under 11 or 3.

2006-08-26 10:21:44
456.   Eric Enders
I admit I've posted once or twice while... um, not drunk, but otherwise impaired. I'm pretty sure you couldn't tell.
2006-08-26 10:29:21
457.   D4P
I'm not opposed to posting drunk so much as intentionally butchering words to make it look as if you're so impaired that you can't see straight, which just isn't all that funny. I'm not opposed to creativity, provided that it is actually creative...
2006-08-26 10:36:35
458.   Greg Brock
D4P, I had the perfect Springfield Shopper headline set up for yesterday's game (in the event of a Dodger victory).

Diamondbacks Snake-bit with RISP.
It's groan out loud horrible.

2006-08-26 10:44:39
459.   D4P
I like groaning out loud...
2006-08-26 10:46:37
460.   Bob Timmermann
I'm surprised we went the entire night last night without a Samuel L. Jackson quote.
2006-08-26 10:48:31
461.   Shovav
It's All My Fault.

I have listened to the last four games online as I live on East Coast. Fell asleep in rocking chair with the baby all four games. Woke up to check the score to find out they lost. ALL four games

Needless to say fellas, I will not listen tonight. We can't have another loss due to me.

Gotta change the mojo somehow.

2006-08-26 10:54:17
462.   Bob Timmermann
461

I say this to you as a concerned Dodgers fan.

You should give up your child.

You have to think about the team.

Sheesh, priorities today.

Next thing you know, the baby is going to be fed and clothed too! Where does it all end?

Why when I was a youngster, I was allowed to crawl around the house naked while my parents listened to the radio during the 1966 pennant race.

Of course, I was the youngest of four children so that could have been my folks parenting technique by then.

2006-08-26 10:57:26
463.   Greg Brock
If any of you have the Fox Soccer Channel, Manchester City leads Arsenal with ten minutes to play.

That's kind of a big deal.

2006-08-26 11:01:36
464.   Bob Timmermann
463
Always rooting for the teams in pale blue over the teams in red, eh?
2006-08-26 11:03:12
465.   Greg Brock
464 I'm so transparent.
2006-08-26 11:03:43
466.   Steve
If there is a positive takeaway from last night, at least repko played the ball off the wall.
2006-08-26 11:20:14
467.   Greg Brock
464 FSC always finds a way to give you one good match, and one or two total dogs.

Wigan vs. Reading?

2006-08-26 12:48:17
468.   Linkmeister
Since 451 is aimed (or at least prompted) by my error, and since I apologized to Bob once, I take umbrage. I haven't decided where to take it yet (the dump is about 15 miles away, and gas prices being what they are...), but I'll advise when I make that decision.
2006-08-26 12:50:39
469.   Bob Timmermann
468
Can you take penumbrage?
2006-08-26 13:00:10
470.   D4P
468
You were merely the straw that broke the camel's back
2006-08-26 13:05:32
471.   Icaros
I must've missed the pretend drunk commenter thread. Sounds postmodern.

I've commented under various forms of impairment.

2006-08-26 13:08:41
472.   Bob Timmermann
471

That particular person is gone and not coming back.

2006-08-26 13:12:49
473.   D4P
not coming back

At least, not under the same guise

2006-08-26 13:13:40
474.   Icaros
472

I saw that part, and the part before it.

Apparently I missed the part before those two parts.

2006-08-26 13:25:17
475.   Greg Brock
472 I must have missed that thread, though I can venture a guess or two.
2006-08-26 13:31:54
476.   Linkmeister
468 No. I was merely adumbrating my actions.
2006-08-26 13:41:26
477.   Steve
I've posted with Jim Tracy as manager. All other impairments pale in comparison.
2006-08-26 13:53:54
478.   PDH5204
Linkmeister:

Which volcanic rock do you live on?

2006-08-26 13:59:05
479.   Greg Brock
Well, after a fair bit of sleuthing, I've uncovered the chain of events that led to a certain banning.

Fascinating. Over a period of days, you could chart the slow buildup.

2006-08-26 14:00:45
480.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think "fascinating" would be Jon's choice of adjectives there.
2006-08-26 14:04:00
481.   Andrew Shimmin
Breathtaking, maybe. Breathtaking is good for all occasions.
2006-08-26 14:06:47
482.   D4P
Intoxicating.
2006-08-26 14:10:26
483.   PDH5204
He was harmless and we need to be bigger men than that, unless of course, we wish to be called "fascist".
2006-08-26 14:12:53
484.   D4P
483
I'm gonna go ahead and guess you know him very well...
2006-08-26 14:14:17
485.   Andrew Shimmin
Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I know D4P wouldn't mind be called a fascist. I think he kind of digs it, actually.
2006-08-26 14:15:24
486.   Linkmeister
478 The most densely populated one. The volcano (now in its 23rd year!) is over on the Big Island.
2006-08-26 14:15:33
487.   Andrew Shimmin
As if on cue. . . Not content with his killing fields, D4P starts a new Spanish Inquisition.
2006-08-26 14:22:42
488.   Bob Timmermann
488

He didn't see Rule #14, no auto de fe!

2006-08-26 14:23:47
489.   Linkmeister
488 The ultimate in self-referential postings.
2006-08-26 14:28:45
490.   capdodger
487 - Well, we saberites (saberettes?) have to keep our doctrine pure.

Regarding the D's recent losing streak, I'm gonna take some blame here. My wife and I have been moving out of our apartment, and I think that the boxes were messing up the ch'i. We promise to unpack our house (now with windows!!) as fast as possible to right the ship.

2006-08-26 14:40:27
491.   Greg Brock
487 I must say, I didn't expect the D4P's Spanish Inquisition.

Nobody expects it.

2006-08-26 14:41:58
492.   Steve
Once you've been called a Gameday watcher, there are very few epithets that pack that kind of punch otherwise.
2006-08-26 14:42:01
493.   D4P
491
Andrew gets all the "edge" credit around here, but I like to mix it up a bit as well...
2006-08-26 14:43:35
494.   Bob Timmermann
David Ross just hit his 18th homer of the season.

I feel a disturbance in the force.

2006-08-26 14:46:01
495.   Greg Brock
494 It's as if a thousand Dodger voices cried out at once, only to be extinguished.
2006-08-26 14:50:30
496.   Greg Brock
If the day ever comes when my stupidity necessitates a banning, I need to come up with a random 80's Dodger name. Right now, I'm leaning toward Len Matuszek or Enos Cabell.
2006-08-26 14:57:52
497.   s choir
483 I believe he wanted to get banned. Ever since he was asked to take a week off, his posts became progressively more provocative. He brought it upon himself.

I think Jon had a really hard time making that decision. He was in a tough spot. He doesn't want to ban anyone. He doesn't want to be a "fascist," as you put it. But he did what he thought was best for this blog, and he did it in a considered manner, without a knee-jerk reaction. He tried many other ways of remedying the situation before banning him. And, I might add, he did it with the support of a lot of people here.

2006-08-26 15:02:56
498.   Andrew Shimmin
The Angel game just got interesting. It's been a long time since the Dodgers had themselves a brawl.
2006-08-26 15:03:39
499.   Andrew Shimmin
I should say, there hasn't been any fighting yet, but everybody's up on the rails, getting ready for the next inside pitch.
2006-08-26 15:11:26
500.   Steve
What kind of calculator needs a 12 ft. AC power cord? This makes no sense.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2006-08-26 15:11:35
501.   PDH5204
484 How self-assured are you? So what's he gonna say that's gonna violate you and/or me as a person? He otherwise didn't detract from my experience here. So he was harmless. And to the extent that you, me, and the rest otherwise might think him in need of some help, well, with him gone, how are we to give it?

480 Bob, re my treatise, yes, as noted, the walk at the worst possible time, the failure of some to play defense, and not keeping one's mistake in the park, and there goes 1 of the 40 that separates first from last. And if you think I can't be hard on Lugo, well, in line with what I wrote, one is indeed always hardest on those one loves the most, so I'm hardest on me, but in Toby Hall's defense at least he was being asked to take a strike while that pitch to Lugo, and that swing, well, pathetic. He's lucky I'm not his manager, since his return to the dugout is met with my eyes like daggers. Plus the appropriate off color query asking just what was that...

And to now add to the treatise and otherwise more fully answer Jon's initial query, yes, I expect them both, and as to why, well, if need be, everybody we expect to steal on a regular basis gets out there and runs under simulated game conditions. Everybody expected to be at the plate when that running occurs stands in there, but doesn't swing, and he gets to see, after that throw to second or third, just where runner x need be in relation to pitcher y's release so that it might fairly be said that runner x has stolen the base. We do that often enough and we don't even have a concious choice any more, I mean, I don't need to evaluate the probabilities when it comes to my breathing and blood circulation, as the autonomic and subsconcious me do just fine in that regard and never mind any conscious thought on my part. So he won't make the conscious decision to not swing, since the lesson will be so ingrained that he just won't swing. That's what we're aiming for [you can call me their drill sargeant if you like, since the purpose is entirely the same]. And back to '78, well, the one stat I left out, that I wish so much that we'd repeat, and with more than the one soul, as in, with Furcal, Lofton and Lugo it could three of them, but with their own lesson ingrained, as did Lopes in '78, one could reasonably expect to see 45 SBs with 4x caught stealing for each of them.

I'll otherwise let those who believe the stolen base overrated to explain why we don't want to trade 12 outs for 135 additional bases, and never mind any associated effect that might attend that running riot on the basepaths such as those fastballs that those following might all the more expect to see, and I'll otherwise be so generous as to grant the proposition that for all 12x caught stealing, the runner would have otherwise scored...

2006-08-26 15:13:02
502.   Borchard504
You want interesting? Bernardini will be running in a few minutes, in the Travers Stakes at Saratoga.
(455) agree, cause in a relative sense, who cares if someone uses the 'word' teh, rather than trying to drive down the 101?
2006-08-26 15:15:52
503.   capdodger
I think Jon had a really hard time making that decision. He was in a tough spot. He doesn't want to ban anyone. He doesn't want to be a "fascist," as you put it

Jon has said it himself on numerous occasions. DodgerThoughts is not a democracy; it is a benevolent dictatorship.

(Oh yeah! I just used a ";". You gonna ban me Bob?)

2006-08-26 15:18:40
504.   D4P
benevolent dictatorship

I prefer "ruthful" over "benevolent"

2006-08-26 15:23:22
505.   Jon Weisman
I must be a pretty small person, because I find 483 offensive. Not to mention wrong.

I suppose since he didn't bother you, he was harmless. Never mind who else he bothered. Never mind I spent more time making peace after the damage he caused than for all other commenters combined.

I went out of my way, more than I have for just about any other commenter here, to try to keep the peace with him, to try to help him be a welcome commenter here, long after many people wondered why. Since the beginning of the season, I've tolerated the guy despite comments that were in clear violation of the guidelines that everyone else here seems to be able to follow. He clearly didn't want the help. I tried to be nice - it didn't work. I got tough - it didn't work. Nothing worked.

So please, spare me your admonitions and your casual talk about facism. If you don't like the way things are done here, there are plenty of other message boards where the kind of freedom you want can be found.

2006-08-26 15:23:24
506.   Greg Brock
Philosopher King is also acceptable.
2006-08-26 15:25:54
507.   capdodger
506

Indeed.

2006-08-26 15:31:13
508.   PDH5204
497 I wasn't calling Jon a "fascist". But we otherwise all [yes, all] have "fascist" tendancies [one of those things we all need overcome]. The blog is otherwise not mine but Jon's and given the attendant circumstances, the word "ingrate" would properly attend my calling Jon a "fascist."

And, yes, you and Mr. Brock are correct, since the course of events, well, based on my experience of prior human history, given certain initiating events, the subsequent course of history was most certainly probable. But for the irony that I noted prior without calling it such, that circumstance is precisely why he stays. I suppose that the broader issue could otherwise be phrased in terms of, what do the third persons do when some other is bent on self-destruction? If it helps, call it suicide by cop [since that's precisely what it was].

486 Linkmeister:

I know where Kilauea is. I live on Isenberg St. in Moilili [rather near the park that once housed the old Honolulu Stadium]. And we live on a volcanic rock, which is kind of what makes this place unique, I mean, nearly all the rest here live on some bland continent that starts and stretches from nowhere to forever, but you and I live on that part of the volcano that breached the ocean and lived to tell the tale. And you and I don't need climb Mt. Everest, as we live on top of our very own Mt. Everest. As you can see, I revel in it...

2006-08-26 15:34:54
509.   capdodger
508 - 2nd Paragraph.

Yawn.... My parents live in a volcano, at least half of the year.

2006-08-26 15:35:33
510.   Bob Timmermann
Godwin's Law is now in effect!
2006-08-26 15:36:01
511.   Greg Brock
508 You're dancing a fine line. In the interest of self-preservation, I'd suggest you move on from this line of discussion. Consider it friendly advice.
2006-08-26 15:38:46
512.   Borchard504
A brilliant, brilliant, win for Bernardini... Sorry to post/dance off discussion - I have a small amount of Catholic guilt, but it is gone.
2006-08-26 15:40:51
513.   D4P
You're dancing a fine line

And we're not talking the lucrative, interpretive kind...

2006-08-26 15:43:16
514.   capdodger
510-

It is not. He only made a fascist analogy. Godwin's law is more specific.

2006-08-26 15:45:29
515.   Greg Brock
513 My next piece will be entitled "Treatise on the worth of the backup catcher." Music set to Ethel Merman's version of "Hey Good Lookin"
2006-08-26 15:45:33
516.   capdodger
514 - Though one could argue that because it's a "law", it's always in effect.

But then you'd be a semantics Nazi...

>>ducks<<

2006-08-26 15:46:12
517.   JoeyP
overrated to explain why we don't want to trade 12 outs for 135 additional bases

I think your math or judgement of the players is off.
It would be better to trade 12 outs for 135 additional bases. That means stealing at a better than 90% success rate.

one could reasonably expect to see 45 SBs with 4x caught stealing for each of them.

What is reasonable about implying that Furcal, Lugo, and Lofton can each steal bases at a 45/49 clip?

Since when could those three ever do that?

2006-08-26 15:46:13
518.   Andrew Shimmin
In the entire world, are there really two fans of Joe Buck? Outside of the office of whatever ad agency Holiday Inn hired, I mean.
2006-08-26 16:00:29
519.   s choir
I have made it my personal policy to no longer respond to aggressive comments/commenters. It is really hard but I am going to do it. This is for my own sanity as well as for that of the community.
2006-08-26 16:02:23
520.   D4P
519
It's easier to resist when you keep in mind that they want you to respond, and that you're playing into their hands by doing so
2006-08-26 16:05:45
521.   Greg Brock
520 Just like Plaschke.

I know you can't respond right now. He's probably listening. Just tap your feet three times.

2006-08-26 16:10:36
522.   D4P
(tap tap tap)

Wait, am I in Kansas...?

2006-08-26 16:15:08
523.   Bob Timmermann
The Giants beat the Reds again and at this moment lead the DBacks for third by a margin of .0002
2006-08-26 16:15:18
524.   Marty
I like the Joe Buck character in Midnight Cowboy. But that's the extent of my Joe Buck fondness.

"Where is that Joe Buck?"

2006-08-26 16:26:02
525.   Greg Brock
There are few joys in life that match Yankees fans absolutely losing their collective minds when the team plays the Angels. For those of you that haven't had a chance to hop over to Bronx Banter, I highly recommend it.

Good times.

2006-08-26 16:28:41
526.   Bob Timmermann
Yankees fans have an irrational fear of Chone Figgins like Dodgers fans do of Eric Byrnes.
2006-08-26 16:32:36
527.   JoeyP
True or False:

Mark Teahen for Octavio Dotel will go down as Billy Beane's worst trade of his career.

While Teahen wasnt playing that great in the minor leagues at the time, certainly trading a prospect for a reliever goes against most sabermetric thought. Its strange how the one trade that is an outlier to the way the A's usually do business, might be their worst trade of the 2000's.

2006-08-26 16:37:23
528.   Greg Brock
False.

Tim Hudson for Charles Thomas, Dan Johnson, and Juan Cruz is far worse. Hudson may not be Tim Hudson anymore, but for what he was worth, that is the real stinker.

2006-08-26 16:37:51
529.   Ken Arneson
527 False. It can't be your "worst trade" if the guy you got was pretty good. Dotel was pretty good, until his elbow blew up.
2006-08-26 16:38:16
530.   Eric Enders
527 Andre Ethier says: false.
2006-08-26 16:40:00
531.   Steve
There's this guy named Andre that was blocked by jay payton.
2006-08-26 16:40:32
532.   Ken Arneson
529 Dan Johnson wasn't in that trade. Dan Meyer was. Meyer also had his arm/shoulder blow up.

That trade is now effectively Tim Hudson for Brad Halsey.

Which I still don't think is as bad as trading away Steve Karsay for Mike Fetters.

2006-08-26 16:40:37
533.   Greg Brock
Wow, they allow lots of swears over at Bronx Banter.
2006-08-26 16:41:06
534.   regfairfield
527 What would the A's do with Teahen? Considering how barren the bullpen was at the time, trading for a guy like Dotel was necassary. It's not like he was some crappy middle reliever, from 2002 until the A's got him, Dotel was untouchable. Even with his recent woes, he still has a career 10.87 K/9.

Keep in mind Teahen has put together only 200 really good at bats. He was terrible in April, demoted in May, had a solid June and has been godly since. Given the information avialable at the time, it was a solid trade, and if Teahen cools off, you can't really call it a mistake.

2006-08-26 16:42:37
535.   Greg Brock
532 Right, I meant to say Meyer, not Johnson. Sorry 'bout that. Either way, I stand by my statement.
2006-08-26 16:43:04
536.   Steve
What Eric said.
2006-08-26 16:45:53
537.   Linkmeister
508 Near the old Termite Palace site, huh? I'm west of its replacement above Pearlridge Ctr.
2006-08-26 16:49:18
538.   JoeyP
What would the A's do with Teahen?

RF, LF, trade Chavez's contract and put him at 3b.

There's plenty that could have been done with Teahen.

Given the information avialable at the time, it was a solid trade,

When is trading prospects for a middle reliever ever a solid trade? Especially one that everyone in the A's organization was very high on. I was reading about how most felt Teahen could develop into a Jason Giambi-esque talent. There's nothing wrong with trading Teahen, its always what you get back. But Octavio Dotel?

Teahen for Dotel is about as bad as Konerko for Jeff Shaw.

2006-08-26 16:54:03
539.   JoeyP
Or more to the point, is trading a potential All-Star caliber 3rd basemen, for 60 great relief innings ever a winning proposition?

Dotel may be good, but how many innings was he really going to pitch? What impact, even if he's perfect, would he have made?

60 innings or 600 ABs? Whats more important?

2006-08-26 16:54:12
540.   regfairfield
538 Dotel isn't a middle reliever. Danys Baez is a middle reliever. Guys that strike out 10.5 per nine with 4-1 K/BB are not replaceable commodities. Jeff Shaw, on the other hand, is a middle reliever.

A healthy Chavez is one of the top 15 players in baseball, and at least at the time, people were waiting for him to drop a 45 jack season. You don't trade a guy like that.

2006-08-26 16:55:11
541.   Eric Enders
538 Totally disagree.

The A's were trying to win a World Series. Their bullpen was an utter disaster. Octavio Dotel was one of the two or three most dominating relievers in baseball over the prior few years. (Not to mention a former starter who could be converted back to that if, say, you have a quirky personal abhorrence toward trading for relievers.) Mark Tehean was a prospect on the wane at the time, who precious few thought could turn into anything remotely resembling Jason Giambi. (Although now, after the fact, they will gladly tell you that they thought that.)

I just don't see how it was a terrible trade. A calculated risk, yes. A bad deal given the information available at the time, no.

2006-08-26 16:55:34
542.   regfairfield
I'm not saying this was a brilliant trade, but would you be complaining about this trade in May when Teahen was in Omaha?
2006-08-26 16:57:10
543.   Ken Arneson
538 The Giambi comparison came from Moneyball when he was drafted, but at the time of the trade, nobody (not most) thought that Teahen was another Jason Giambi. At best, he looked more like another Sean Burroughs or Sean Casey: maybe a high average if you get lucky, but no power at all. The last two months of Teahen has come out of nowhere.
2006-08-26 17:00:43
544.   Linkmeister
O/T: if you haven't checked the Flickr link in Ken's most recent post, go at once. That's an absolutely amazing photo collection, and the backstory isn't bad either.
2006-08-26 17:02:31
545.   Eric Enders
Did a Google to find out what BA had to say about Tehean and the trade at the time.

"Results 1 - 1 of about 2 for 'Baseball America' Dotel Tehean
...
Did you mean to search for: 'Baseball America' Hotel Tehran?"

2006-08-26 17:04:01
546.   Bob Timmermann
Eric,
Should I count the records of the Boston and Chicago entries in the NA along with records for the Braves and Cubs?
2006-08-26 17:04:34
547.   Steve
I wouldn't trade Sean Burroughs for octavio dotel, but it seems like that's a different question.
2006-08-26 17:05:19
548.   JoeyP
Guys that strike out 10.5 per nine with 4-1 K/BB are not replaceable commodities.

If a pitcher is only used in a save situation, then I think that pitcher is replaceable no matter how great they are. You'd have a point if Dotel was used as a fireman, but he just another closer that throws 70 innings. 70 innings, great or not, is still only 70 innings.

2006-08-26 17:05:36
549.   Eric Enders
Actually spelling his name right, on the other hand, nets this:

"The Royals' return on Beltran, a 27-year-old impending free agent and five-tool center fielder, seems reasonable considering the circumstances. Because the Royals fell out of contention in the American League Central quickly, and because Baird felt he had to get something for Beltran in a trade, the Royals were going to have a hard time getting fair value for their best player.
...
Teahen, a supplemental first-round pick in 2002 out of Saint Mary's, began the year as the No. 15 prospect in the A's system, but he has had a breakout 2004 season, earning a promotion to Triple-A Sacramento after hitting .335-6-36 at Double-A Midland.

Since his promotion, Teahen has batted .275-0-10 in 69 at-bats, with eight doubles. Power is the biggest question mark with Teahen. He had a .543 slugging percentage at Midland, but his .391 mark at Sacramento is closer to the .366 career slugging mark he had entering the 2004 season. Teahen, 22, also has a 40-66 walk-strikeout ratio in 266 at-bats this season. He has a plus arm and average range, and had made just six errors in 73 games this season."

2006-08-26 17:08:10
550.   Eric Enders
546 Just one yahoo's opinion, but yes on the Braves and yes on the Cubs in 1874-75 but not '71.
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2006-08-26 17:08:13
551.   Linkmeister
It's impolite to make fun of people's names, but Teahen sounds like something one would find on the river while punting in Oxford.
2006-08-26 17:11:14
552.   Bob Timmermann
550

You would be the only yahoo who would matter in this case.

So Mrs. O'Leary's cow is a defining factor?

2006-08-26 17:11:52
553.   Eric Enders
548 The problem with that is, real baseball teams have to think about things like, 'Who is going to close out games for us in the playoffs?' I suppose you would have had the '04 A's go with Jim Mecir? Or maybe Justin Lehr? Eric Chavez?
2006-08-26 17:14:12
554.   Bob Timmermann
First four batters have reached for the Padres and they are ahead 2-0 in Denver and there's still nobody out.
2006-08-26 17:15:45
555.   Bob Timmermann
Make that the first five batters and it's 3-0 Padres.
2006-08-26 17:15:51
556.   Eric Enders
552 I do think in order to be considered a continuous franchise, you should have to field a team every year.

"Team" being defined loosely for the benefit of the Philadelphia A's.

2006-08-26 17:15:57
557.   Steve
If you're going to use Jim mecir in the sixth inning, why would you care who was going to pitch the ninth?
2006-08-26 17:16:04
558.   Andrew Shimmin
2006 Teahen LD%-14.7 BABIP-.340

That's pretty lucky.

2006-08-26 17:17:34
559.   JoeyP
Harden, Hudson, Zito, Mulder were the 4 starters.
You really only need 3 for the playoffs.
Why not make the 4th guy the closer?
2006-08-26 17:21:07
560.   Ken Arneson
553 Exactly. Dotel was a godsend to the '04 A's. The A's missed the playoffs by one game. Without him, they miss the playoffs by one month.

I'd still do that trade again. It's a win-win-win trade for all three teams involved. I don't even think it qualifies as a bad trade; as a "worst trade ever", it's not even on the map.

BTW, for a fun exercise, check out Dotel's career stats against Ichiro. Total ownage.

2006-08-26 17:22:58
561.   Bob Timmermann
Jennings righted the ship and got Cameron to hit into a force play and Barfield into a DP. 3-0 Padres after 1/2 an inning.
2006-08-26 17:23:52
562.   Bob Timmermann
Oliver Perez of the Mets today gave up 5 runs in five innings on two hits.

The second hit was a grand slam by Ryan Howard.

2006-08-26 17:24:28
563.   Eric Enders
559 You've got me there; that seems a reasonable solution.

Except the obvious 4th guy would have been Harden, a 22-year old career starter and premium prospect. It would be something akin to making Billingsley the Dodger closer for this year's stretch drive and playoffs. Would have been a pretty ballsy move, but it might have worked.

Still, though, the point remains that nobody knew Teahen would be this good. (And, for that matter, we still don't.) He wasn't going to displace Chavez, and your suggestion of moving an iffy prospect who appears to have little power to a corner outfield slot just doesn't cut it as a realistic possibility.

2006-08-26 17:26:57
564.   Linkmeister
563 Didn't the Angels pretty much do that with Francisco Rodriguez in 2002? At least for the playoffs?

Seemed to work for them.

2006-08-26 17:28:23
565.   JoeyP
A healthy Chavez is one of the top 15 players in baseball, and at least at the time, people were waiting for him to drop a 45 jack season. You don't trade a guy like that

Generally, I'd agree.
But I think if the A's still had Teahen it would be a Ryan Howard/Jim Thome situation but with more flexibility since Teahen can play other positions. If the A's were committed to only playing Teahen at 3rd, Beane could definitely sell Chavez off for something good, and at the very least create some more payroll flexibility.

2006-08-26 17:29:01
566.   Bob Timmermann
564
Rodriguez had been used in relief exclusively in 2002 in the minors.
2006-08-26 17:29:21
567.   regfairfield
559 Let's say the A's make the playoffs in 2004 despite trading Dotel. Who starts? Hudson is in, and Harden is probably in despite being only 22, but Zito had a 4.48 ERA that year, and Mulder didn't win a game in the last two months. Do you make either of those guys your closer?
2006-08-26 17:29:29
568.   Eric Enders
564 Rodriguez started zero professional games that year. He had been a terrible starter in Class A the year before, though.
2006-08-26 17:30:43
569.   Eric Enders
567 These decisions in real life being based more on seniority and career credentials than this year's performance, there is no way they take any of Hudson, Mulder, or Zito out of the rotation. That's why Harden seemed like the obvious pick -- him or Redman. But then you'd have to let Mark Redman pitch.
2006-08-26 17:31:56
570.   Bob Timmermann
The Rockies got their first three batters on base, but have just one run after Matt Holliday hit into a DP. Two outs and it's 3-1 Padres.
2006-08-26 17:32:30
571.   Steve
567 -- Why not? Or you could DFA them.
2006-08-26 17:33:56
572.   Jon Weisman
Game thread is open.
2006-08-26 17:39:05
573.   Ken Arneson
572 Thank goodness. If you Dodger fans had suffered through the A's 2004 bullpen (sans Dotel) the way I did, you'd be just as happy as I am to see this thread disappear.

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