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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

September Morn
2006-09-05 06:09
by Jon Weisman

Edwin Jackson's first career major league start came in September, on the ninth day of the month in 2003. Looks like the first start for Hong-Chih Kuo or Eric Stults could come in September, on the eighth day of the month in 2006.

(Who's your favorite triage starter from this decade? Jackson, whose debut was so much fun? Elmer Dessens, who started the division-clinching game in '04? Or are you more the Masao Kida, Scott Mullen, Kevin Beirne or Victor Alvarez type?)

Jackson's victory pulled the Dodgers, who were hopelessly behind in the National League West race, within two of the NL Wild Card lead. The Dodgers pulled within a game of the lead a few days later, but never got ahead, losing out to the eventual World Series champions from Florida.

The Dodgers' lead in the NL West in 2006 has been cut to two games, meaning they're not assured of being in first place by the time Saturday's game comes.

Aaron Sele remains a candidate to take that start in place of Chad Billingsley, whose oblique injury became further annoyed as an unscheduled portion of the on-flight entertainment to Milwaukee. Whoever doesn't start Saturday will be a possibility to take Mark Hendrickson's next turn if the tall lefty falters tonight. Bill Plunkett of the Register has also reported Kuo has a potential starter in Chicago next week.

There's some consternation about Dodger starters not lasting past the fifth inning, but with expanded rosters, it's just a matter of adjusting. The next-best thing to using someone like Jonathan Broxton in a close game late is to use him in a close game early. Unless he's taking the day off, get him in there. Then, if you run out of pitchers, you can go to the recent callups like Giovanni Carrara. Especially after September 1, there's little excuse for using your bullpen in inverse proportion to the game situation.

Comments (91)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-09-05 06:19:59
1.   Disabled List
Sixth inning, trailing by one, bases loaded. Greg Maddux out, Gio Carrara in, Jonathan Broxton still hanging out in the 'pen. One-run deficit becomes a three-run deficit.

That was an awful game by Little.

2006-09-05 06:59:10
2.   Sam DC
A little credit where credit is due:

"And when [Ortiz] arrived back at his locker after his shower, he found a bottle of Dom Perignon courtesy of Bowden."

from game story

2006-09-05 07:29:17
3.   Bluebleeder87

i didn't get to see the first couple of innings so i was nutral when i got home. the 1st thing i saw was Gio giving up a double.

2006-09-05 07:39:36
4.   Bluebleeder87
i hope Grady picks Kou to pitch in NY hitters for some reason don't see the ball of his hand very well that & he throws pretty hard.
2006-09-05 07:51:09
5.   Bluebleeder87
there's a pretty nice read on Andy LaRouche in the L.A.Times today, i like that there shutting him down.
2006-09-05 09:22:02
6.   King of the Hobos
The Laroche article also mentions that Robles and Young are expected to be called up today. I believe Diaz, Stults, and Young brings our total to 50 players this year, 3 short of the record.
2006-09-05 09:37:28
7.   Bob Timmermann
Barring the chance that the Dodgers pull off some weird 23rd hour deal like the Yankees and Red Sox do (like pick up a reliever just to pitch to Brian Giles for instance), then there shouldn't be any more players.
2006-09-05 09:42:41
8.   Jacob L
There's a definite silver lining to the Billingsley injury. Its not an arm thing, and it should prevent him from being one of those 200+ innings rookie pitcher statistics.

Somebody probably said as much over the weekend, but I fell behind.

Yeah, yesterday was not Grady's finest moment, and the Boston rabble would be right if it was a regular occurence. He should have been thanking his lucky stars that he got 5 from Maddux, not pushing for 6.

2006-09-05 10:06:17
9.   Sam DC
MankatoDodger: I left a response to your question about RFK in the last thread.
2006-09-05 10:26:19
10.   Marty
Anyone else seeing this error when clicking on the generic Dodger Thoughts icon?

Error processing template:DodgerThoughts

2006-09-05 10:27:27
11.   Marty
Actually, I get an error clicking on any of the generic Toaster icons. If I click on a specific thread it works fine. Clearing cache didn't help.
2006-09-05 10:42:23
12.   Marty
It's working now.
2006-09-05 10:42:40
13.   Marty
My first cycle!
2006-09-05 10:46:03
14.   Bluebleeder87
i'm not gonna bother clicking the generic icons any time soon.
2006-09-05 10:49:52
15.   Jacob L
Jeez, it just occured to me that no one has yet commented on the title of Jon's post. "We danced until the night became a brand new day . . . "

Thanks for putting that in my head after a long weekend!:)

2006-09-05 11:02:06
16.   dsfan

What kind of performance would you expect from Stultz if he makes a start this month?

2006-09-05 11:06:28
17.   ddger
It still bugs me that Grady used Gio in that bases loaded situation. Jon had several excellent posts about using the best relievers in such a situation. But it's hard to find a manager who would be so logical to go against the book (Grady should start reading DT).

If Grady was going to use Broxton yesterday, he should have used him in such a situation. Grady had several other options other than using Gio who had been struggling before he was DFA and should not have been put in such a high pressure situation.

2006-09-05 11:09:20
18.   GoBears
6 brings our total to 50 players this year, 3 short of the record.

Is that a MLB record, a NL record, or a team record? And did the team that used 53 make the playoffs? One would think not...

2006-09-05 11:14:14
19.   Bluebleeder87
after reading some of the thoughts on DT i remembered Gio imploding about 4 years ago an giving up a huge lead to the Brewers.
2006-09-05 11:24:34
20.   popup
I would like to see Stults get the start. I saw him pitch when Vegas played in Tacoma. Nothing overwhelming, but he seemed to be able to throw strikes.

Jackson's start against the Diamondbacks was amazing. Another young pitcher who came up at the end of the year and pitched well was John Purdin. That was quite awhile back, must have been the late 60's. The best late season call up among the pitchers had to be Fernando in 1980.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-09-05 11:26:15
21.   GoBears
One of the interesting discussions about Nomar in the off-season was about how he deals with injuries (or the types of injuries he's had). The point was made that Nomar doesn't play hurt. He either plays healthy, or he sits. So his numbers are great when he's in there, but he misses a lot of time. Without any desire to enter into the argument about whether that makes him selfish and not a gamer (because I think that's a pointless argument), it doesn't appear to me to be accurate right now. He looks like he's playing hurt - probably still the knee. With the exception of his enjoyable 6-RBI game on Saturday, he's been pretty awful for a while now, and with Loney up and Saenz well-rested, and Kent able to play 1st with 412 middle infielders on the roster, one wonders whether it wouldn't be a good idea to give Nomar a week off. OK, I wonder.

Any thoughts?

2006-09-05 11:30:10
22.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodger team that used 53 players was the 1944 squad. It went 63-91 and finished in seventh, 42 games out.

I believe the major league record is 59 by the 2002 Padres:

2006-09-05 11:36:22
23.   das411
7 - I hear Jesse Orosco is available...didn't he play on the team in 22?
2006-09-05 11:36:46
24.   GoBears
22 Thanks, Bob. I had faith.
2006-09-05 11:43:42
25.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know if I'm right, but I know the 2002 Padres set a lot of records for personnel. They used 37 pitchers, including infielder D'Angelo Jimenez for 1 1/3 IP!
2006-09-05 11:44:22
26.   the OZ
23 I think the ageless wonder Orosco did indeed play on the team in 22 AND the team in '22.
2006-09-05 11:47:25
27.   Eric Enders
Anybody know the non-wartime Dodger record?
2006-09-05 11:47:51
28.   Eric Enders
27 Well I guess it's wartime right now, but you guys know what I mean.
2006-09-05 11:50:11
29.   dsfan

Nomar was injured circa July 25. As I recall, six weeks was approximately the projected recovery period so perhaps he is close to being back to full speed.
Does he appear to be less mobile than before injury?

2006-09-05 11:52:09
30.   Bob Timmermann

This ain't no party.
This ain't no disco.

2006-09-05 12:05:29
31.   Bluebleeder87

i'd start Kuo & if he melts down, give the ball to Stults.

2006-09-05 12:06:28
32.   GoBears
29. I've had that injury. 6 wks is the projected recovery period if you do nothing but rest and rehab during those 6 wks. Using the knee to play baseball is not generally recommended.

Yeah, he seems gimpy to me.

2006-09-05 12:16:25
33.   50 years a Dodger Fan
21 Nomar's contract has some incentive clauses, one of which is that he receive $500,000 for every 25 plate appearances after a certain point, which he has already passed. If I do the math, he's getting $20,000 every time he goes up to the plate. That's a pretty good reason to keep limping out there. Nomar first, Dodgers second. And that's a pretty good reason to think Loney next year. Speaking of which, doesn't he have an inordinate number of triples for the number of at-bats he has? How many would that figure out to be over a full season of 500 at bats?
2006-09-05 12:18:09
34.   Jeromy
O.K. so I missed something. What unscheduled, on flight entertainment has caused Billingsley to lose recovery time? Are we talking about turbulance here?
2006-09-05 12:22:45
35.   Chuck Henderson
20 And one shouldn't forget Karl Spooner in 1954, with 2 shutouts in 2 starts and 15 strikeouts in his first game.
2006-09-05 12:25:21
36.   bhsportsguy
Just exchanged emails with Will Carroll, BP Injury guru, he thinks that the Dodgers will try to keep Chad out as long as they can to avoid the innings pitched plateau but not letting him get stale, my guess is that he may work that last game in Chicago or wait until the San Diego series which will give him about 3 weeks recovery time.
2006-09-05 12:26:40
37.   Bluebleeder87

incentive contracts are the way of the future if you ask me. but i also know it's never gonna happen.

2006-09-05 12:28:55
38.   Bluebleeder87

i like the idea, 3 weeks is not to long nor to short, kudos if that's what will really happen.

2006-09-05 12:34:18
39.   MollyKnight
Can someone link me to the Dodgers expanded roster? I'm sort of confused at this juncture as to who's on the team. Thank you.
2006-09-05 12:42:35
40.   Jon Weisman
I've done two posts on the Dodger roster record, one within the past week.
2006-09-05 12:49:59
41.   dsfan
Earlier this year, I said it would be nice if the Dodgers skipped Bills a start or two in Triple-A so that he would have more gas in the tank for the inevitable callup/stretch run.
Depo reportedly was keen on having minor leaguer starting pitchers take a few breathers by working in relief now and then. Seemed smart and pro-active to me.

Maybe this oblique injury proves a blessing in disguise for Bills. You'd hate to see him suffer the way Edwin Jackson did.

2006-09-05 12:53:15
42.   GoBears
40. So you have, which is why I even knew to ask. But darned if asking Bob T. for help didn't get me the answer faster.

Never underestimate the laziness of your audience. Or at least of me.

Actually, the truth is that my brain had to re-boot after Cal's ingnominious display in Knoxville.

2006-09-05 12:55:59
43.   Bluebleeder87
Actually, the truth is that my brain had to re-boot after Cal's ingnominious display in Knoxville.


2006-09-05 13:06:09
44.   Bluebleeder87
i really hope Kou get's a start.
2006-09-05 13:09:45
45.   Jon Weisman
I believe Bob's answer was wrong. From my first post on the subject:

The Dodger record for players used in a single season is 55 by the 1944 Brooklyn team. (You remember them, don't you?) In Los Angeles, the record is 53 by the 1998 squad, featuring Mike Metcalfe, Will Brunson and Manuel Barrios.

2006-09-05 13:15:32
46.   Sam DC
Molly -- I believe covers it. Go to the main page, then look for the pull down menu "roster" in the top middle, then click on "active roster."
2006-09-05 13:15:43
47.   Bob Timmermann
J. Walter Weatherman walks in ...

That's what you get for not reading through the archives first!

2006-09-05 13:16:08
48.   Sam DC
And Ned Colletti chats in 45 minutes.
2006-09-05 13:22:47
49.   GoBears
45. D'oh! Bob has forsaken me. It's hard to get good research assistance during the summer.
2006-09-05 13:27:10
50.   Sam DC
I was at the dentist today. They've added a tv over the chair. It was on cnn. Tribute to Steve Irwin and they were reshowing all these clips where he joked about getting killed, and then an old FedEx commercial where he gets bit by a snake and dies.

It didn't really work for me.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-09-05 13:27:32
51.   mankatododger
9 Thanks very much. I am glad I asked. My friends bought our tickets and said they are good so I hope so. It probably will be a Triple A game at best but it should be fun. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Jobs get in the way of baseball sometimes.
2006-09-05 13:28:31
52.   Bob Timmermann
The reports of me being an information Messiah were false.
2006-09-05 13:31:16
53.   Sam DC
51 Last year the season ended against the Phillies so the games at least mattered for one team (they were eliminated on the second to last game). This year the Mets, so not so much. I wasn't worried about you're responding just didn't want my long answer to drift into the archives. Have fun!
2006-09-05 13:31:46
54.   GoBears
52. I was thinking more along the lines of Trivia Lama.
2006-09-05 13:37:34
55.   Bluebleeder87

i'm in the chat room already, but i'm sure non of my question will be answers (bad spelling & all) can somebody give him Kudos for shutting down LaRouche.

2006-09-05 13:38:25
56.   50 years a Dodger Fan
54 Encyclopedic Guru?
2006-09-05 13:59:34
57.   gibsonhobbs88
34 - No one answered your question. I didn't hear abour it either? Someone tell us what "in-flight" entertainment set back Bills recovery?

I am agonizing over this road trip knowing our road struggles most of the year. It seems the Padres are heating up again and we have those 4 with the Mets. I wish Maddux was a little better than he was yesterday, but you can't be that myopic knowing he is 40 and he is susceptible to a bad outing here and there when is command is not spot on!! Nobody really got Prince Fielder's explanation as to his take-out slide on Kent on a SB attempt. If one of our players tried that, automatic 3 game suspension because we are from LA per Bud's "anti-LA agenda"!!

2006-09-05 13:59:43
58.   Sam DC
Was that Guru or Gnu?
2006-09-05 14:07:04
59.   Bluebleeder87
i'm in the chat room at the moment, & i swear i can hear Ned's voice reading his remarks
2006-09-05 14:07:53
60.   Penarol1916
57. Yes because as we all know it would be against Bud Selig's best interests for the Dodgers to have a good team. It's not like having a Mets/Dodgers playoff series wouldn't be good for ratings while also giving Bud more evidence that the players need to give more to restore competitive balance.
2006-09-05 14:11:30
61.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Bud Selig ensured that the Knicks would draft Patrick Ewing too.
2006-09-05 14:16:37
62.   Sam DC
So, is the Loney answer (a) encouraging, (b) terrifying, or (c) it's all just pablum anyhow, why bother reading?
2006-09-05 14:18:34
63.   gibsonhobbs88
60- I just know the pattern of his decisions and Bob Watson's discipline decisions sure has the appearance of a double standard when it comes to either team with Los Angeles on their chests. I don't have time to list chapter and verse of all their suspicious actions but if I can find that book at my house from the writer that wrote about the Dodgers in the last years of O'Malley's reign, I will give you that information. It was a real eye-opener on how evil, sneaky and underhanded Bud really is!! He had a major hand in the Dodgers downfall in the late 90's.
2006-09-05 14:24:18
64.   Sam DC
the long-term future of the next year or two

Well, that's one view of long term.

2006-09-05 14:25:48
65.   Penarol1916
63. No thanks, I'm a huge fan of conspiracies and blaming others for when my team falls short (ahem, Seahawks fans).
2006-09-05 14:30:07
66.   Bob Timmermann
Sort of like the Uruguayan soccer team?
2006-09-05 14:30:17
67.   regfairfield
63 I think trading Konerko, Piazza, and Pedro, along with failing to draft one good player, had a lot more to do with the downfall than Bud Selig did.
2006-09-05 14:30:33
68.   popup
63 So did Fred Claire. And 35 Spooner did have a fantastic stretch run in 1954. Can you imagine if he had stayed healthy just how good that 60's Dodgers pitching staff would have been?

Stan from Tacoma

2006-09-05 14:36:07
69.   Penarol1916
66. No, they're crazies. I no fans who still hate the English because they injured Obdulio Varela, the greatest player in Uruguayan history in the quarterfinals of the 1954 World Cup right before they faced the Hungarians in the semi-finals. They insist that if the English hadn't butchered him, then the flying Magyars would have lost and Uruguay would have had to wait until 1958 to suffer their first loss in World Cup play.
2006-09-05 14:36:08
70.   Bluebleeder87

Selig is a joke to everything good about baseball, when ever i see him it makes me wanna puke!!

2006-09-05 14:37:23
71.   Penarol1916
69. Just call me the stupidest poster alive for the second word of the second sentence.
2006-09-05 14:37:56
72.   Bluebleeder87

his doughter owning the Brewers is just laughable i'll just leave it at that.

2006-09-05 14:39:31
73.   Bluebleeder87
thank god baseball has so many good people in it that i turn a blind eye to stuff like that.
2006-09-05 14:40:03
74.   Bill Crain
63 You wouldn't happen to remember the author's name or approximate title? Can't find it on Amazon, unless it's Steve Delsohn's "True Blue."
2006-09-05 14:50:42
75.   still bevens
Hey whoah Toby Hall isnt Hendrickson's personal catcher today. Wonder if we'll see better results?
2006-09-05 14:53:33
76.   JoeyP
I dont think trading Piazza set the Dodgers back, bc Gary Sheffield played great while here. I dont even think Kevin Brown hurt the Dodgers, bc again he was a very good player while in LA.

The real group that killed the Dodgers IMO was Eric Karros, Devon White, and Darren Dreifort.

2006-09-05 14:57:44
77.   Bob Timmermann
Devon White was so good, the Dodgers had to reacquire Tom Goodwin to replace him!
2006-09-05 15:03:43
78.   Bill Crain
77 Wasn't it White for Grissom?
2006-09-05 15:05:40
79.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, but Goodwin was acquired the year before when White got hurt.
2006-09-05 15:11:03
80.   Bill Crain
The Dodgers got the best of Goodwin's carreer; beginning and end. That stuff in the middle, who needs it? I wonder if Roger Cedeno might be avilable now. . .
2006-09-05 15:14:59
81.   regfairfield

Furcal, SS
Lofton, CF
Nomar, 1B
Kent, 2B
Ethier, LF
Kemp, RF
Lugo, 3B
Martin, C
Hendrickson, P

Drew's sitting after taking the team lead in OBP yesterday.

2006-09-05 15:23:11
82.   50 years a Dodger Fan
81 OK lineup if we flip-flop Martin and Lugo. Seriously guys like Hall and Lugo, do we dare offer them arbitration just to get draft picks? They're so bad they might accept. The way they're playing they might want to ask Little not to play them, it'll drive their value down...
2006-09-05 15:25:46
83.   JoeyP
If the Dodgers wont start Saenz vs LHP, it really leaves the lineup vulnerable.

This team just isnt very good against LHP. Drew/Lofton/Betemit are non-factors vs LHP.
Saenz is good, but he never starts anymore.

Hopefully Kemp can knock a few out these next two games, bc Davis/Capuano might be trouble.

Repko must have fallen off really far in Grits mind, if Lofton's getting a start vs a Lefty.

2006-09-05 15:32:35
84.   King of the Hobos
82 I wouldn't worry about Lugo. He's easily the best available SS on the market, and no team is going to not sign him on the basis of his sporadic play with the Dodgers over his play with the Devil Rays the last 3 years.
2006-09-05 15:33:00
85.   Claire Malone-Evans
Tom Goodwin is fastest runner I have ever seen wear a Dodger uniform. I wasn't around back in the days of Willie Davis and Boog Powell .
2006-09-05 15:34:02
86.   Bob Timmermann
Phillies rained out today. They will make up the game against Houston on September 25. I guess they didn't want to play their third doubleheader since Saturday.
2006-09-05 15:39:43
87.   Jacob L
85 Yeah I'm sure Boog really motored. Goodwin was fast, but his second tenure with the Dodgers pretty much marked the end of my believing in the importance of speeed in winning baseball games.
2006-09-05 15:42:39
88.   gibsonhobbs88
74 - That title sounds very familiar, I just have to try and find my read books area in my house. If the book was written after the sale to Fox in 1998, that is the one. It recounts the events that led to O'Malley selling the Dodgers starting back in the early 90's and is behind closed doors look at the organization and O'Malley's growing frustration with MLB "Hawk" owners controlling the committees with the notion of how they were going to bring the players' union to their knees. O'Malley wanted them to work with and not against the players, but Selig and his cronies ignored him and systematically manipulated and politicized the power committees to be under his power and pull the rug under any credibility and pull O'Malley had with the owners. It was a major factor in O'Malley deciding to sell the Dodgers. Other huge factor was the LA political leaders that told him to back off on his proposed football stadium in favor of the highly inefficient LA Coliseum Commission. The book listed both of those as major factors that led to the Fox sale!
2006-09-05 15:56:06
89.   bhsportsguy
If that has not been brought up already but in today's chat, Ned confirmed that Andy LaRoche will not be joining the team this fall, I do think that a lot of that has to do with his injury. He also confirmed that Kuo is being looked at as a starter.
2006-09-05 16:46:56
90.   Bluebleeder87

i don't know Lofton's #"s against lefties but i don't think there good.

2006-09-05 20:43:37
91.   Jeff Iannucci
Jon, considering Edwin Jackson's debut came against the Neil Diamond-backs, that's the best post title in months. Kudos.

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