I will proudly wear the checkered jersey at Chavez Ravine tonight.

Barring some very unforeseen events, such as the Dodgers making the World Series, this will be my last trip to Dodger Stadium in 2006.

Have fun Bob!

..does anybody else have this back-of-the-brain feeling that last night may go down in history as the end of the Cardinal mini-dynasty?

Dbax have scored 1 run in their last 20 innings.

Then they're due!

What about the Giants pitching? Only six runs so far tonight.

This is not a good way to start the second half.

Michigan State slapping Notre Dame around. 17-0

let's just play quality ball & let everything fall in to place.

Topiggyback from the last thread, I hope Marlon Anderson has a chance to become Jim Leyritz-like in October.

8

i don't wanna go the baby shower!! iggyback from last thread

i'll be going inside my buddy's house once in a while to check on the score.

In the history of the world, has anybody, ever, wanted to go to a baby shower?

I guess Andre Etheir's luck has ran out in terms of BABIP?

11

NO!! but they force us to!

So much for UCLA being ranked.

I am going to have to follow Dodger game online, because I will be watching UFC and hopefully seeing BJ Penn knock Matt Hughes out!

Maybe all my friends are actually right. Karl Dorrell may actually be slightly mentally retarded.

I didn't want to believe it.

15 i'm gonna be in a baby shower, & pretend my life is great.

16
I held my tongue about Dorrell needing to be on the hot-seat, but he needs to be on the hot-seat.

Notre Dame is getting wiped out, he says with absolutely no hint of schadenfreude.

18 It's not a matter of the "Hot Seat." It's a matter of "Does he have extra chromosomes?"

Seriously, he very well may have mental deficiencies.

17

people will believe me because i sale my product very well.

19 The Germans have a word for everything.

Sigh...

I was hoping we would go to Eugene undefeated.

The Germans have a word for everything

Alles...?

24

claro que si?

It must be pretty tough to go from Heisman talk, to being the subject of message board threads like, "Brady Quinn = Rick Mirer."

24 I didn't say, "The Germans have a word for 'everything'."

22 That's because the grammar of German allows you to create wordsthatjustpileuplikeatrainwreck.

And my love affair with those hateful Astros continues...

I'm back Uber alles.
I've haven't been as involved it a pennant race in 15-20 years. I think I can take it, where my younger self couldn't.

it = in , sorry

30

these days are what us baseball fans live for gen3blue

Indeed!

St. Louis loses another in the 9th, they are lucky that the Reds couldn't beat anyone in the NL West or else they would be in second.

He had it stolen all the way, but nice throw by Martin just the same.

Penny is just a different experience than the Lowe and Maddux.

Tracy is sitting Bay tonight.

Man, he's still hurtin' us.

34 Trading away the team certainly didn't help them either.

Well, this certainly isn't a good thing.

Oh geez. Does this count as a mound visit?

Anybody else happy right now that the Phils traded Bobby Abreu?

41 Abreu's power and plate discipline were just holding them back.

i'm off to distination BS, see you guys soon, i'm hoping for a good pitched game from Penny. good nite everybody.

38-

I can't believe how stupid that trade was. I love how the Baseball Tonight people are all in shock, like, "Cincinatti's GM went out and made moves that fixed the bullpen! How could they fall out of the race?"

It's amazing how much mainstream baseball commentary overrates relief. Karl Ravech actually tried to argue that Mariano Rivera should be the AL Cy Young winner, and that Trevor Hoffman was more valuable to the Padres than Jake Peavy.

The Pirates have an early lead. Arrrr!!!!

40

before i go, what happend!!?

46-

Injury concerns, but it looks like he's okay.

44 There is no question that quality relief is very important, it is just hard to trade for it because it is so unpredictable.

42 Abreu doesn't have much power. Plate discipline yes.

BTW if you frequent UCLA fan sites, you might want to stay away for about.....a month.

To borrow from my Irish in-laws: COME ON YE BOYS IN BLUE!!!!!!

The Phils are 12 and 5 this month. If they win the wild card a friend of mine from Philly will never let me hear the end of it.

Is Penny hurt? The Cal Poly dorms don't get FSN2. :-(

Swipe it Rahpi!!!

53 No, he says he was fine.

In the interest of full disclosure, I must admit that my angst and anger at the Rafael Furcal signing has abated.

48-

Yes, but one reliever is rarely as important as one starter, which is the point.

Arguing that Mariano Rivera is more important, then say, Johan Santana is pretty crazy.

Raffy!!!

54 I have not seen a stranger spelling of his name yet.

Kenny Lofton just bunted on a 3-1 count. Don't think I've ever seen that.

Does anybody have Furcal's splits for first at bats. It seems like he always gets on base leading off the game. And has quite a bit more power too.

57 There is no question that the most valuable Yankee for the last ten years in Mariano Rivera but I don't think that is the case this year.

48 Which is why Mariano Rivera is so valuable. He shouldn't be the Cy Young, but he's still really important.

I don't understand why teams haven't figured this out. All they should have to do is realize that there are five guys out there right now that have been closing for any substantial period of time, and one of them is Bob Wickman. (Rivera, Hoffman, Wagner, and Isringhausen are the other four, I might be missing someone.) This alone should be enough to make people realize that they shouldn't trade for mediocre relievers.

Nomar in the first inning on the other hand seems to do worse.

yeah Lofton. Steal those bases.

keep Nomar from hitting into a DP

In play, run scoring play. :D

That was barely fair, Bob is waving his jersey.

and... it's a double. :D

I think Miguel Batista is thinking about the impending release of his novel more than pitching.

Nomar!

Is that Johnny Estrada or Mike Piazza?

I guess I am OK with only playing veterans during the playoff run, as long as that doesn't ness. include Lugo and Betemit, and as long as they win. Other than that, absolutely no qualifications.

Pitch 1 - In play, out(s) recorded

Kent!!!!!! >:o

Those watching this game on TV: Does Nomar look hobbled by the leg injury?

Furcal is hitting .301/.373/.440 in his first at bat. Pretty much what he's doing overall.

Win expectancy:

From 59% after Penny closed out the 1st inning, to 63% when Furcal singled, to 67% when he stole 2nd, to 70% when Lofton singled, to 74% when Lofton stole 2nd to 81% after Nomar's hit, and back to 79% after Kent's out. Nice!

Drew is gonna walk.

Drew is really swinging a good bat right now.

77 by walk I ment double

Maybe we can put this one to bed early tonight

61

According to mlb.com Furcal is batting .313 and OBP is .355 when leading off.

Does anybody else think that betemit and Anderson look like brothers?

80 - How are things in Mt. Home (or is it Mt. View)? Get much water today?

Here is that man again.

dreaded in play out recorded

Oh, duh ... in his first at bat! He always leads off - I'm such a fool!

52 - Hi. :-D

63 - Reg, Isringhausen is out for the season with some hip problem, the Cards have Braden Looper closing these days. Thus the losing streak.

Meanwhile I wonder how long it will be before Philly sports writers realize that JD Drew is the only person keeping the Dodgers in the Wild Card race...

Vinny just nicknamed Marlon Anderson Merlin

First early lead in this homestand.

And it's only a 3 run lead after an inning of play. Penny better keep the r in his first name. ;-)

Isringhausen wasn't exactly a pillar in that bullpen; Cards fans were calling for his head before doctors came calling for his hip.

83. Mt. View. Yes, we got a lot of rain but not nearly as much as a couple of counties east of here

87-

With his lack of clutch? Ha! Surely you jest.

The Dodgers and Padres have better records than the Cardinals. Now Cardinals have to keep winning as their nemesis, the Astros are suddenly hot.

88
If Anderson keeps it up, everyone will call him "Merlin."

If Penny gets out of the 2nd with less than 45 pitches we could pull this off.

92 - Yes, the reports I got today (in Greene County) were very frightening. Sounds like Sharp County is a disaster area tonight.

97. Sharp county got more than ten inches of rain and that was last night. I don't know how much they got today. Reports are that they have been working around the to fish people out of trees

Man, Brad Penny, what's the deal?

87 - We could call him the energizer bunny!

well that sucked.

Don't worry, Brad. You could give up seven runs tonight, and you'll still be more beloved than Karl Dorell.

98 - I heard the same thing, plus a host of "rural legend" stories about missing people swept away in Spring River's overflow. I hope those rumors prove untrue.

With the pitcher on deck and 1st base open, you cant give the #8 hitter anything good to hit.

That was a grievous mental mistake by Penny, in an important Dodger game.

Very disappointing.

4 strikeout in an inning alert!

Hey, lay off Penny. He could record four strikeouts this inning!

Because of past rules violations, my posts have a 35-second delay. I actually posted that before Mark Joseph!

103. Well, there have been a few confirmed deaths but I don't know if any of those are from Sharp

Done! Of course, win expectancy is down to 58%.

Plus Brad's on his 21 pitches per inning pace. So getting 6 innings tonite would be an accomplishment.

Well, he needed 12 just to strike out the side!

Vin just said that the last Dodger pitcher to strike out 4 in an inning was Darren Dreifort, three years ago. I'm amazed that he could go that long--might have been a full 10 or 12 minutes--without tearing something.

Piazza 1st pitch hacking, flies to right and strands the bases loaded.

Still 1-0 pirates.

I can't understand for the life of me why we still sacrifice...especially since penny is a good hitter for a pitcher.

The bunt is simply a lost art....it's gotten to the point that it's not even worth having your pitcher sacrifice...just let him swing away and hope something good happens.

Come on Russell, you can't catch 120 games and steal bases.
What the hell --we are tied?- what happened.
Hve we got a bad Penny tonight?

How bad was that bunt? Win expectancy dropped from 63.9% to 58.6%. Followed by the DP dropping it to 54.3%.

Hmmm. That was dumb Brad.

114 I've never understood why pitchers almost invariably have to be such bad hitters. It seems like they can practice their swings during the offseason.

Brad and Russ had a bad inning.

Be right back. I'm gonna grab so Maalox to go along with Penny's preformance.

Penny was entranced by what appeared to be a picnic blanket floating in the stands.

118 Most teams don't even like to have their pitchers take BP, it is just a necessary evil of being in the NL.

Penny has the best stuff of any Dodger pitcher but he is still a thrower, until he becomes a pitcher, he will always have pitch count trouble.

80 I was afraid that was optimistic.
96 It was too close for this prediction to have much value.

He really needs to get that breaking ball down.

118 Because everyone except pitchers are in the league because they can hit.

Chug, chug, chug.

They better put in Hendrickson,before this game gets out of hand.

67 pitches through 3ip for Penny.

128 - 67 pitches through 3, they'll have to do something

i'd rather see kuo in a playoff game than penny.

Watching Penny pitch lately makes me have Kaz Ishii flashbacks. Really, he takes all the fun out of watching a baseball game.

I'm not sure what it is, teams decide that they are going to take pitches and just hope he burns out.

its easy what it is. he throws straight fastball 95% of the time and they just foul him off.

I still think we can come back if Penny can make it out the next 2 innings.

he we go.

Be interesting to see if any of the Dbax swing before Penny gets a strike over these next two innings. If they have smart at bats, he'll struggle to get through 5.

Batista would have been better off just standing there.

0-2 pitch, shot up the middle. get him out.

It is so hard watching Penny pitch these days

Whatever happend to Penny's "splitter"?

137 Penny will have one of those games in his career when he has everything going probably pitch a no-hitter but otherwise he will have games like this.

What really worries me is that Penny is throwing a lot of fastballs 90-91 right now. What was his injury in the 1st inning?

now grady, before its too late.

i'd rather see penny throw 92-93 and locate than 97-98 right down the middle.

Penny can get out Gonzo.
Gonzo has been very unclutch this year.

Here it comes: "In play. Run scoring play."

cringe

Triplets mentions: 2

The struggles of Penny really highlights sample size. Imagine if the season had gone backwards. Penny would be banished to the bullpen for putting up a 6 ERA and possibly traded for Elmer Dessens. Andre Ethier is never given a chance because he starts off his career 2 for 30 or whatever he's at right now, and Nomar as seen as a spectular failure.

Meanwhile, Rafael Furcal enters the premature talk for MVP, and JD Drew doesn't recieve quite as much grief because he hits .265/.400/.502 in the first half, and

149 There was nothing left there, I just accidentally trailed off.

That comment earlier about Furcal and abated angst and anger? It was about his offense only.

And for all the angst and anger about Penny tonight, Martin and Furcal owe him some apologies.

You could be rooting for the Giants, who in their last 12 games have given up 113 (!) runs.

http://tinyurl.com/s8lff

Penny is done, Get ready for plenty of relievers.

What a relief, but I guess I'll be getting all my post-season money back, minus the "convenience" fees.

But I hope not.

Thank you to Estrada for having no patience.
Kept the Dodgers in the game.

Padres tied 1-1 in the bottom og the 6th.

Drew's on fire.
I'm feeling a Betemit hr here.

lets go betemit, do something for a change.

Can we please stop hitting Drew 5th?

more like a betemit swingateverypitchout

hes so terrible.

128

Be careful what you wish for--you may get it.

149 Good point Reg.

not a bad AB by Betemit

Betemit is a low avg/low OBP hitter, but he is due for some bombs, unless he hit all of his allotment in August.

8-August
1-Sept so far

Betemit couldn't even get Drew over the third!

hes brutal, freakin' brutal.

that's "to third."

Martin has shown more pop at the MLB level, than he ever showed in the minors.
Thats nice to see.

Pitching slot is leading off the 5th. Double switch time?

laroche better be ready next season, i cant stand watching betemit go up there wildly swinging at every pitch.

Betemit is one of those guys that it is hard to decide what you to do with them next year. Do you make him the everyday 3B and hope he can have a good year, or do you decide, as the Braves evidently did, that he is no better than a utility player?

Betemit's problem is chasing any and everything low. I mean, how many times have you seen him chase a low fastball and hit a weak ground out?

And for Penny, wow he has sucked since the break. What happened? I mean, his Ks have been decent, but he's been terrible.

They are playing with fire if Little lets Penny pitch 1 more inning.
At 93 pitches, he certainly looks done.

I'd double switch.

Well at least Penny only has 90 or so pitches entering the 5th.

I'd leave Penny in, which they are. At this point, do you want to see Tomko, etc. Besides, for once they should just let Penny throw 120, 125 pitches, why not? It is the end of the season.

yay, first pitch out!

at this point tomko and penny are the exact same pitcher.

I must admit there are 2 or three very talented players that I consider to be "scrubs". And I believe the team will not do well if they remain.

If I was managing a team, I'd fine players for every 1st pitch outs they make. Bc in reality, its the worst thing they can do as a hitter.

I have no idea why Martin is batting 8th of all places. Betemit belongs there right now, and would be a good candidate to take out in a potential double switch. Only problem is then you'd up putting in Lugo (shudder).

good outing, brad.

Thank God the NL never adopted the DH.

I know I wouldn't sign Penny for next year unless he figured out his problems. I wish we had that option, but we don't.

and how it betemit hitting before marlon anderson!

179. If you are talking about Penny, I understand where you are coming from. He is another of those players that it is hard to make a decision on. On one hand, he is extremely frustrating, and seems to not be able to get over the hump to become a consistent pitcher, and it seems like he will never get better, just remain as he is. On the other hand, it is hard to find pitchers who can win 12-15 games per year, with around a 4 ERA. Penny would be fine as a #3 starter, but not as a #1/#2, which is what he is for us.

Barfield homer.
2-1 Padres bottom of the 7th.

3.5 before the game's almost over!

I think Penny's problem is that he simply is too predictable. Fastball or curveball. Get the timing down, and you can hit him. He needs to use the splitter he supposedly has, and maybe he needs a change up, because it's obvious that just a fastball and curveball won't work for Penny.

I have a feeling that Penny is not the brighest player out there, and is not really open to change.

well, the dodgers better win tonight. the padres wont lose.

Batista needed 5 pitches.

That ain't gonna do it

That was a pathetic Dodger 5th inning.
5 pitch inning....

What's with all this swinging?

The Dodgers go down in 5 pitches.

Someone wanted Hendrickson.
Well, here he is.
Enjoy.

I am beginning to get the feeling that the game on Monday night, rather than having been a turning point, just provided false hope and that we are not going to make the playoffs. The Phillies and Padres are playing well and are seizing the moment while we have been stuck in neutral for the last few weeks. I just get the feeling that this time is beginning to fade. Other than Lowe, Drew, Saito and occasionally Nomar, Martin and Maddux, the rest of the team seems to have September jitters.

I was playing the old World Series Baseball game for Genesis earlier against my roommate, and crushed him. It was an exhibition game, so he brought Fernando out of the pen.

Fernando struck out 8 over 3 2/3. Maybe he should teach Penny that screwball.

Okay, so I just checked out a replay of Penny in April, he was throwing the splitter, which was at 84-86mph, fastball at 94-96mph and the curveball at 78-80mph
Then went to a September game and he was still throwing 94-96mph and 78-80mph, did not see the 84-86mph splitter.
Is he still having arm trouble? Wasn't that the reason he wasn't throwing it last year?

Good job Hendrickson!

Interesting move by Bochy.
Its 2-1 Padres in the 8th, Peavy is at 104 pitches.
He's leaving him out there.
Very surprised he doesnt go to Cla Meredith in this situation, so maybe the Pirates have a shot.

I'll bet he stopped throwing it because he's pervicacious, dumb and fat.

At least, that's what I've "learned" here tonight.

As Bob would say, Sheesh! I'll check back in tomorrow. In the meantime, someone may want to start confiscating shoelaces and belts.

Funny what happens when you take a pitch!

There goes Drew, clogging up the bases again.

2006 ERA

Penny: 4.21
Hendrickson: 4.25

Freddy Sanchez goes something like 8 for 14 against us, he is 0 for 8 in San Diego, grounding out with the tying run on.

Why are the Dodgers hacking away at Batista? Is the Dbax bullpen that intimidating?

207 I am equally flummoxed.

At least Gameday's pitcher of Mark Hendrickson seems to have an apologetic smile.

If this is a comedy of errors then why don't I fine it funny?

So--Vin Scully has been talking about how switch hitters consistently hit into more double plays left-handed, than right-handed. But wouldn't that just be because they face more right-handed pitching, and thus have more at-bats left-handed?

Somehow a rookie starter for Pittsburgh does not inspire me for tomorrow. They had the good Jake Peavy tonight.

Yay for Marlon!
He knows not to swing.

I'd expect left handed batters to have a slightly lower rate of GIDPs, since 1) they'd be more likely to pull into the hole between 1st and 2nd, and 2) they have an extra step to 1st base. Gotta check my old Abstracts, I think ol' Bill looked at it at some point.

After the first inning, they have not been able to do anything despite getting some leadoff hitters on.

I'm surprised by the approach of the Dodger hitters tonite. Usually they grind at bats out, especially when they are trailing.

Certainly a befuddling performance so far. Maybe they'll turn it on in the 8th or 9th.

216 Maybe the scouting report on Batista suggested that he had a pattern of pitching juicy first pitches. If that's been their strategy, it's not working.

Womder how Penny faces his mates in the Dugout. A 3 run lead, he gives it up within two innings and then can't hold them....I don't know if I am as thrilled right now with the exception of Lowe getting another start of the 3 man rotation. I say pitch Kuo where you can. Probably a done deal but tonight maybe more painful than the Cubs loss

Wow--that was a great play(pitch-out)

214 That makes sense, but Scully wasn't talking about the RATE of hitting into double plays. He was just adding up the total GIDPs for each switch-hitter, and marveling at how they consistently have a higher TOTAL of GIDPs left-handed, than right-handed.

Like many D's opponents, Batista goes deep into the game!

Tomko gets the job done--does anyone think the D's offense can.

Any chance Johnny Estrada is related to Erik Estrada? I think I ended up being a Dodgers fan because Fernando Valenzuela looked like Ponch.

Batista threw 25 pitches in the 1st inning.
From the 2nd-7th he threw 61 pitches total.

Finally Lofton decides to grind an at bat out. Good job K-loft.

Melvin would be apt to pull Batista too. Maybe he'll leave him in a batter too long.

this game is a total pain in the tail.

I always get the feeling, and this is totally subjective that teams enjoy beating the Dodgers more than other teams.

Nobody's mentioned it yet, so I will - game over in SD. Padres win 2-1.

227 It's Lasorda. It's a hangover from the decades of inane chauvinistic comments from Tommy.

A loss is discouraging enough, but Penny's inability to pitch deep or with any consistency is really maddening. Losing tonight isn't insurmountable, but it is a fairly bad sign. Give the Padres some credit - with the exception of the foursome game, they've pitched a lot better and deserve to be in first (as painful as that is to say). The D's need to win tomorrow, period.

...And darkness Dessens upon us.

It would also be nice if Philadelphia lost a game at some point.

I'm beginning to recognize the Padres probably have the NL's best pitching, period. If they get into the playoffs, they could go pretty far, despite their other flaws.

We need Elmer the Safety Elephant, not this Dessens character.

This game just magnified what has been going on with the pitching this month. They had several winnable games that the starter or the bullpen needed to make one pitch and couldn't do it. Derek Lowe's inability to handle a 7-0 lead, Tomko being left in one batter too long in Chicago, the strike call in NY, Sunday's loss in a tie game going to the 9th.

If they had won the games they should have won (and did win during the 5 week run in July and the first days of September), they could have lost Monday night and still be doing okay.

Remember, the reason this team won in August, they had the best pitching that month, led by Lowe, Maddux and Billingsley, with great work from Tomko, Broxton and Saito.

The Elmer's glue goat would have pitched better this inning.

Grady's seen enough. So have I.

236 - If Elmer was a horse, he'd be glue by now.

Looks like there won't be any playoffs this year. :-(

Terrible.

Good night folks.

Goodnight gang. I'm out

Brutal. Tomorrow is another day. Night folks.

For those of you who say it is not worth to spend lots of money on relief pitchers in many ways you are correct. Very few are reliable for long periods of time. However, while the Dodgers have not used their "prime" relivers, Saito Broxton and more recently Biemel, this strategy only works when you have starters that can pitch some innings. So Penny barely gets us 5 innings and then the not so good bullpen gives up 3 runs. Billingsley effort the other night where he could only go 5 also has hurt, and in fairness to Grady he had to take him out

Dodgers are getting singled to death tonight. Its basically the opposite of a couple of Maddux games. The balls arent finding gloves.

239 While any deficit at this point in the season is bad, it's half a game.

239 That's a bit pessimistic but for the first time in nearly 6 weeks, they are out of a playoff spot.

I wouldn't give up on the playoffs yet. But the pursuit of such, and making it, are pointless if they can't pitch any better. I would rather see some of the young guys at this point than Carrara and company, but whatever. At least we won't see most of the riff raff of the bullpen next year, whatever consolation that is.

Night all!

No team survives if they need to go beyond 2 or 3 of their better relievers, in a effect, its amazing they have done so well, I bet and since I have some time I will check, that this team has had the fewest opportunities of a save than any other contender outside maybe the Yankees.

During this playoff run the D's pitching has revealed itself. And the offense of the vets and those we have acquired has responded as it has. It could turn around, but for now it is very clear.

Brad Penny is the most deceptive 16-game winner I've ever seen. Did you see the pre- and post-All Star Game ERAs he's posted? 2.91 before the break, 5.91 after.

Our pitching just isn't good enough to get us into the playoffs, and if by a fluke we did get in, it's not good enough to win them.

Its more that the Dodgers no longer control their own destiny as far as the playoffs go. With the Phils playing some bad teams, I dont really expect them to lose.

Hopefully the Padres get smacked around by the Cards this upcoming week, or the Dodgers are dead.

249 The vets are the only ones hitting right now. Drew, Kent, Furcal, and Anderson are on fire.

243 I agree. Though it is painful to watch this bullpen, the real problem is the starting pitching. You need guys who get into the 6th and 7th innings reliably, so that you can use your big three relievers, with a fourth thrown in, when it matters. Lately, the Dodgers have to get 4 innings every night, and there aren't many bullpens that can do that reliably. Combine with a sputtering offense, and this is what you get.

This team could still do OK in the playoffs, but it is going to be nervewracking to see them try and get there.

After Penny's performance, I wonder if Grady Little is considering not going with the 3 man rotation.

After Penny's performance, I wonder if Grady Little is considering not going with the 3 man rotation.

Hello denial, my old friend.
I've come to talk to you again.
vr, Xei

2 man rotation anyone?

(No, I'm really going to bed now.)

why is drew still hitting 5th

I think we need to give Martin some rest.
He is apt to kill himself trying.

257. Lowe, Guo and Maddux? Three??
vr, Xei

Well, Penny only has 1 more start left. So I dont think his ineffectiveness matters that much at this point.

There's only 7 games left.

Looks we may need Betemit next year, LaRoche is going to have surgery for his torn labrum, if he has this week, he could be ready for rehab in by spring training but it took Rolen another year to fully recover so I would not expect him to contend for the 3B job until 2008.

Well, after soaking my sorrows in MANY a Guiness following the UCLA debacle, I find that the Dodgers are officially on the outside looking in.

This is truly a lost Saturday. I would love to give some hard hitting analysis, but I'm just...well, I'm just too upset.

261 One game may = playoff spot.

well, looks like we'll be on the outside looking in again come october. i just have that feeling being a dodger fan. same sh**, different year.

Ok, I know that the dodgers still have a slight chance to make it to the playoffs, but c'mon, lets face the obvious: we're mediocre this year. Not good, not bad, but we are missing something, so we're just mediocre. So I'll just throw out some thoughts on moves the dodgers should make in the offseason.

1) Keep Grady-you can whine about maybe 5 games in which he's made really questionable games in which he brought in a reliever who blew the game, but c'mon, if we were good, it wouldn't have come down to those final innings.

2) Find someway to get rid of:

Tomko,
Hendrickson
Dessens
Sele
and Julio Lugo.

Now, going position by position:

1B) Yeah, Nomar has had a good number of clutch moments for us this year, but does it really make sense to resign him? I don't think it does. He's way too injury prone still, he would cost a lot of money, and we have a very good, cheap, young, defensive wizard in James Loney.

2B) Kent, pretty much a given.

SS) Furcal, again, pretty much a given.

3B) Like I already stated, get rid of Julio Lugo. Other than that, I'm kind of undeceided on whether to start Betemit everyday, or play LaRoche everyday. Maybe we should have a competition in spring training to see who wins that job. Or if Aramis Ramirez opts out, maybe we should take a look at him. Just throwing stuff out there, what do you think?

C) Martin, given.

RF) Drew, given

CF-LF) Don't resign Kenny. He hasn't been bad offensively, but he is not a good clutch hitter, and his defense is terrible. Not to mention the fact he isn't getting any younger. I would have said to just automatically give Kemp the job earlier, but now I'm not so sure. And I would have also said to just play Ethier every day as well, but again, I'm not that certain. I really think the dodgers just need one big home run threat to change a decent to good offense they have now, into a ligitimately good offense. So I might suggest going after Carlos Lee, or Soriano, but maybe not.

I also think our bench should be fine, with Anderson and Sanez under control next year.

Rotation:

Lowe, Penny, and Billingsley should be gaurenteed a spot in the rotation.

After that however, I really also think the dodgers need a veteran ace, my dream would be to sign Daisuke Matsuzaka, but if not my second option would be to sign Barry Zito, and if all the above fails, get Jason Schmidt.

And then I might resign Maddux, or just put Kuo in the 5th spot if not. But the bottom line is that we need a veteran ace because face it: Lowe is a good number 2, and Penny is a 3-4, not an ace.

Bullpen:

Saito, and Broxton should be locks, and on Eric Gagne, it depends. If he'll take, say a 3 million dollar contract with heavy incentives, then sure. But if he gets greedy, and expects a "fair price," then sorry. I mean, we paid you like 20 million bucks in 2 years for like what, 10 saves? At this point, Gagne cannot just expect a big contract with those arm and back issues.

After that, we just need to find better middle relief. Joe Bimel is a keeper, but we need more middle relief. However, proceed with caution, DON'T FOCUS on middle relief. Try and find more Joe Bimels, because if you trade the team for middle relievers like the reds did, or spend all your money on it like the Cubs did, you're in trouble.

Those are my thoughts, but my main goals are: ace veteran, and power hitter.

What are your thoughts?

Grab Soriano, grab Zito. Dish Ethier for some pitching, and let Loney play 1st. Give Kemp a shot at centerfield.

Pretty simple.

Maybe it'll be 2007 when I wake up tomorrow.

268
Oh no you don't. You're going to sit here and suffer like the rest of us.

267.

Well if I were to put my long thoughts simply, same thing except grab Lee and Matsuzaka.

yeah, but too bad kent is a given. i never did understand ned giving him that extension in spring training. Hes a great player but his best days are long gone, its not his fault hes just old.

268.

Well, at least there's USC (if anyone's a USC fan here), UCLA-kind of, the Lakers-kind of, and whatever NFL team you like- but yeah, it gets kind empty during those months.

271.

Yes, but can you name a better offensive 2B the dodgers can get? Oh wait, well the dodgers could always get Soriano and move Kent to 1st, but that'd mean Loney can't play. That's why I'd rather get Lee.

no, and i think the dodgers almost have to play loney next year, or trade him. and nomar just isnt worth the risk. I really hope they find a 3rd baseman. betemit is not the answer. but I think they biggest thing they need to adress is the pitching. i think jason schmidt would be a perfect fit.

270 Matsuzaka is a Yankee. Bet on it.

275.

Yes, well, a guy can dream. Maybe Daisuke would want to come to the dodgers because we are the ones who first signed Nomo. But then again, that's probably BS, and he'll go for the insane money.

i dunno , i think i would take 20 less million and sign with the dodgers than the yankees.

If Matsuzaka signs with anyone other than the Yanks, I'll buy everybody here a round of drinks.

On Jon's Visa, of course.

heres hoping he turns out to be the next "fat toad" for the boss.

If Matsuzaka plays in the US next year, I was under the impression he didn't get to decide where he plays. Doesn't he have to play for the team that bids for the right to sign him? I suppose his team could release him outright, but that doens't seem likely.

Hey now, let's not throw in the towel now. During that slump after the break, ok, pack it in and plan long term for next season as only the impossible would bring us back into contention. Well, the impossible happened. A couple winning streaks strung together as remarkable as four homeruns in the bottom of the ninth. We caught up and we are back in the running. Sure we've let them go ahead in the tenth, but after coming this far why not wait to see how we do in the bottom of the inning before walking out the stadium again. It's a long, slow drive back home until next season, let's not be in such a rush to embark now. I'm still pulling for a two run walk off that will put us back on top in the end.

Trust me, the talk here is more civil than on the Bruin boards.

281 - Amen! Remember, even the Astros came back from that Pujols home run last year. If there's anything the last few seasons have taught us, it's that no race (or series) is over until the last out is in the books. And if this is indeed the last week of Dodger baseball in 2006, do you really want to spend it thinking about next year? That is what winter is for, go watch Greg Maddux pitch and Nomar Garciaparra hit and Russ Martin catch instead!

For the record, Matsuzaka will only be able to negotiate with the team that turns in the highest sealed bid to Seibu.

Then Matsuzaka will have a window to negotiate a contract. If he doesn't reach an agreement, the team that paid for the right to negotiate loses its money and Matuszaka has to play another year for Seibu.

It might be a little early for a Post-Mortem, but maybe not. I don't understand how we can lose to the Padres again. Man for man, I'll take our starting position players over theirs every time. Noted we really don't have a regular third-baseman, but our other seven are better. How did we lose? The manager gets credit for some of the losses but most fall in the pitchers' lap. Some weak starters and most middle relievers get to shoulder the blame. A lot of comments have been made on our pitchers not going beyond the fifth inning. A lot of that flak should be directed at the manager, it's his decision to remove them at about 100 pitches; leaving them in for one more inning, which may only cost 10 pitches, is an option I'd prefer over bringing our fire-bug bullpen in in the sixth. I'd rather risk an extra inning from Billingsly, Maddux, Lowe, and Kuo than an inning fron Tomko, Hendrickson, Dessens, or Hamulack. Really, could the starters do any worse?

If I remember correctly, the LA Times mentioned trading Penny for some hitting; I can dig that. Penny has a lot of potential but he is getting far too likely to melt down under pressure. Does anyone else see a lot of parallels between him and the unlamented Odalis Perez? Trading him now would be a better thing than buying out his contract somewhere down the road...

be careful what you wish for, the dodgers might get a few of those "animals" you discussed about in the last thread back in trade...

266-- I could go for most of those ideas. If Kuo doesnt get hurt between now and opening day 2007, I think he deserves a chance to be in the starting rotation.

I'd probably sign Zito, Aramis Ramirez (I think he'll opt out) and a veteran CF'er as insurance if Kemp isnt ready (I want Milton Bradley back but that aint happening, so I'd settle for Jim Edmonds or Eric Byrnes). If I could get a young starter (like Ian Snell) for Andre Ethier, I'd also look at that.

I'd move Andy LaRoche to 2nd base too after signing (A-Ram).

A-Ram, Zito, Carlos Lee would be my 3 priorities. I dont really like Soriano as an Of'er.

Lineup:
SS-Furcal
CF-Edmonds
RF-Drew
3b-Ramirez
2b-Kent
C- Martin
LF-Ethier/Kemp/Werth
1b-Loney/Saenz

I don't understand how we can lose to the Padres again.

Their starters are better.
Their bullpen is a lot better.
Usually good pitching beats good hitting.

I feel blind-sided by the news that Laroche will probably need shoulder surgery for his torn labrum. It sounded like it was so minor it was just going to go away a month ago. I guess deep down I new better.
Anyone know the prognosis with this kind of surgery.