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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Garciaparra Has Torn Quadriceps
2006-10-06 17:28
by Jon Weisman

Nomar Garciaparra gave it his all. Now, it's up to James Loney.

Garciaparra might be able to pinch-hit for the remainder of the National League Division Series; nothing more.

Comments (134)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-10-06 17:34:29
1.   Sospiro0
I have a feeling, a good feeling, one which does not relate to Loney or home field advantage or anything real. But it's a good feeling nonetheless.
2006-10-06 17:34:38
2.   Greg S
Does anybody feel this badly hurts our chances to win?
I don't. And I think that's been the reason the team has been pretty successful this year; depth. Over 3 or 4 games, Loney can be just as dangerous.
2006-10-06 17:41:40
3.   Telemachos
Aside from Nomar's uncanny ability to get a late-inning hit, I think a healthy Loney is more productive than a wounded Nomar.
2006-10-06 17:46:08
4.   BarkinJ
is it bad form to make a comment at this point about the history of players who can barely walk but can still swing the bat if absolutely necessary?
2006-10-06 17:46:55
5.   Sam DC
I was happy to learn about the Shedow.

I really enjoyed the existence of the Gaelic conversation in the last thread.

So, a lot of fears about Lugo at first or gosh knows what people worried Little might've done seem not to have come to pass.

2006-10-06 17:47:48
6.   Benaiah
I hope the Yankees decide to give up on Arod, because I don't think they have a prayer of replacing his production. Plus they will probably have to sell him for 50 cents on the dollar.
2006-10-06 17:48:15
7.   Benaiah
Do you think a single Dodger position player would start on the Yankees?
2006-10-06 17:52:40
8.   Jon Weisman
5 - Shedow. Very good.
2006-10-06 17:52:42
9.   JoeyP
Torn quadriceps really hurts Nomar's free agent hopes. That, and his free fall of a 2nd half.

I'm thinking Nomar comes back to the Dodgers now.

2006-10-06 17:54:34
10.   bigcpa
9 So Gagne comes back too then right?
2006-10-06 17:56:22
11.   b-in-law
As a long suffering Red Sox fan as well, at least the Yankees are losing to Detroit.
2006-10-06 17:57:19
12.   regfairfield
7 I think J.D. could replace Damon. Other than that, no.
2006-10-06 18:03:53
13.   JoeyP
10. Yep.
I think sentimentalism is pretty important to this front office. You wont be seeing any Loduca-esque mid-season deals, or Shawn Green-esque off-season deals.

If you're a "fan favorite", you'll be here.

So I expect Gagne/Nomar to both be here, and likely be overpaid as a result.

2006-10-06 18:05:48
14.   natepurcell

with all due respect, that just your speculative opinion on that matter. do you have any examples to back up that claim?

2006-10-06 18:10:14
15.   Sam DC
Something must be wrong with Gameday cause its saying that Derek Jeter grounded into a double play with his team down 3 runs in a crucial game.

Maybe I can get Joe Morgan to look at it after the game.

2006-10-06 18:13:28
16.   Sam DC
Josh R. seems pretty down.
2006-10-06 18:23:06
17.   JoeyP

--I think the inverse has been proven to be true so far. The "bad apples"-- (Odalis, Bradley, Choi--wasnt a bad apple but a polarizing figure), were all shipped out of the organization.

And if you look at the Giants, and how they have been managed....They tend to hang on to veteran "name" players.

I've seen nothing from Colletti that makes me feels he's any different than Sabean.

You are correct, that at this point its all speculation...But what else are we supposed to type about?

2006-10-06 18:25:50
18.   b-in-law
6. Forever known as Mr. November, perhaps ARod will just fade away. Never have so many, hated so few, for so little.
2006-10-06 18:35:31
19.   bearlurker
7 Kent would start on the Bankees.
2006-10-06 18:40:33
20.   Linkmeister
There are a whole lot of radio broadcasters who should take some tips from Ernie Harwell (who did an inning or two on ESPN in the Yankees-Tigers game); he gave the score about every 4th minute.
2006-10-06 18:45:48
21.   still bevens
Wow Kenny Rogers is absolutely bamboozling the Yankees right now.
2006-10-06 18:46:32
22.   Linkmeister
And as long as I'm noticing things: Dear ESPN and Fox, please lose the in-game interviews with the managers from the dugouts. It doesn't add a thing.
2006-10-06 18:52:08
23.   eeeddie
And Beimel comes clean:
2006-10-06 19:00:02
24.   Andrew Shimmin
23- Tomko gets in a few kicks at the guy on the ground. Nice.

It's way too soon to know how Colletti will handle this off season. He re-signed Kent, mid year; maybe he's the only old guy coming back. In a couple of years, Colletti will probably be pretty predictable, but this year, I can't see why anybody would bet on what he'll do.

2006-10-06 19:00:29
25.   Daniel Zappala
7 Not the same question, I know, but based on youth and potential, I think there are several players that the Yankees would gladly trade straight up. They'd do Giambi for Loney, Ethier for Matsui, I'm sure. And Martin for Posada, with Martin easily starting over Posada right now. Personally, I'm a lot more excited over the future of the Dodgers than I am the Yankees. I was certain the Yankees lack of pitching and age would doom them this year, never mind the future, until they somehow pulled off the Abreu trade. Even with that, I can't see how they have enough assets to pull off another year like this next year, and the free agent market is thin.
2006-10-06 19:03:19
26.   Daniel Zappala
22 My big beef with Fox is how they cut away from each and every pitch to show a player in the dugout, a coach from the other dugout, a fan, and then a shot from behind the batter, and then a quick cut just as the pitcher delivers. I hate that! I want to have some time to see the pitcher, I want to feel the tension between just the pitcher and batter, I want a slower pace to the cuts. This doesn't need to be done with the frenzied pace of modern movies.
2006-10-06 19:08:27
27.   b-in-law
What made baseball different than other sports was that you could sit on the back porch with your father and listen to the a.m. broadcast of the game and know clearly what was going on. ESPN feels the need to move towards the NBAization of major league baseball. Constant noise, MTV type video cuts, and endless need to talk.
2006-10-06 19:12:54
28.   Bob Timmermann

I can empathize with Josh. He has to spend every day for several months with the team. And his day to day mental health is affected by the Dodgers performance more than any of us. After all, it's his paycheck! And he could be seeing the end of one season coming very quickly.

Fortunately, I'm assuming Josh is salaried and works year-round.

2006-10-06 19:14:27
29.   D4P
Great closeup of Jeter's hand and groin area!
2006-10-06 19:21:03
30.   Bob Timmermann
According to one online sportsbook I checked, the Mets are actually slight favorites for Game 3. They are going off at -180 and the Dodgers are at +160.

Despite being up 2-0 and playing at home, the Padres are favored at -220 against +180 for the Cardinals.

Gamblers don't seem to think much of Greg Maddux and think very highly of Chris Young.

2006-10-06 19:24:11
31.   nick
24 you don't think Tomko and Nomar were absolutely right to say what they said?
2006-10-06 19:24:13
32.   Andrew Shimmin
-180 what? Or, in other words, Bob, teach me how to gamble. . .
2006-10-06 19:32:02
33.   Bob Timmermann
If you bet $180 on the Mets, you win $100. If you bet $100 on the Dodgers, you win $160.

As you can see, the + and - numbers are never reciprocals.

The house hates reciprocals.

2006-10-06 19:32:06
34.   Daniel Zappala
32 On money odds, when there is a minus (-) you lay that amount to win a dollar, and where there is a plus (+) you get that amount for every dollar wagered.

So in this case, you play $180 on the Mets to win $100. For the Dodgers, you play $100 and win $160.

Leave it to the Mormon to explain how gambling works.

2006-10-06 19:32:27
35.   Daniel Zappala
Ouch, four seconds, and that was only because I previewed.
2006-10-06 19:33:21
36.   Andrew Shimmin
33, 34- Thanks.

31- I don't know if they're wrong to think what they think, I think kicking a teammate in the press isn't a good move. In the first place, that's not their job. In the second, there's no shortage of people to do it for them.

2006-10-06 19:34:12
37.   still bevens
OMG Joe Morgan just annointed Kenny Rogers as the greatest left hander ever due to his ability to shut down the Yankees - the greatest hitting lineup ever.
2006-10-06 19:34:14
38.   D4P
Leave it to the Mormon to explain how gambling works

So your current job is a bit of a dream job...?

2006-10-06 19:35:44
39.   Bob Timmermann
Utah, one of only two states without a lottery! (Hawai'i being the other.)

I'm certain that no Utahns ever go over to Las Vegas or Reno.

2006-10-06 19:36:06
40.   Daniel Zappala
38 I'm enjoying it very much. BYU is a great place to work.
2006-10-06 19:36:34
41.   Bob Timmermann
I think Joe was being a bit sarcastic since he realized that he had boxed himself into a verbal corner.
2006-10-06 19:39:17
42.   Xeifrank
Best part of the playoff TV coverage so far is not having to look at that stupid LOB column every time they show the score.
vr, Xei
2006-10-06 19:40:05
43.   D4P
Great. My wife is pressuring me to start applying places, but I don't feel quite ready yet.
2006-10-06 19:40:35
44.   Daniel Zappala
Thank goodness there is no lottery in Utah. I detest the idea of the state convincing the poor to gamble away what little they have in the hope of hitting it big. Oops, no politics here.

I've been to Vegas on business, and I have to say I hate the strip. Nothing to do with religion, I just don't go for crass commercialism and money uber alles. Interstingly, there are tons of Mormons that live in Vegas -- there's a whole different side of the city away from the strip. So lots of Utahs go to Vegas -- depending on their religious background they either go to the strip to gamble or to the residential areas to visit relatives.

2006-10-06 19:41:54
45.   Daniel Zappala
43 When do you finish? The typical university hiring cycle starts January and ends March or April -- it's a short season.
2006-10-06 19:46:34
46.   D4P
Well, I hope to be done by the end of this school year. But I suppose I could probably start applying soon, as I "only" have my dissertation left to finish and I'm far enough along that I could probably talk about it at job talks. I will definitely be applying during this hiring cycle. There are a few jobs open right now of interest, one at Penn and one at Portland State.
2006-10-06 19:48:12
47.   Bob Timmermann
I don't like lotteries either as I think they are just a regressive tax. And when California first insituted a lottery, they wouldn't let my dad sell scratchers at his store. The Lottery officials said he didn't do enough business.

So my complaints about the lottery are half economics, half grudge.

2006-10-06 19:49:06
48.   nick
36 well, I suppose Tomko's invocation of "character" was pretty weak--(a cynic might suggest that given his results only character has kept Tomko in the game so long)
2006-10-06 19:49:24
49.   Bob Timmermann
Penn and Portland State are very similar institutions I hear. Not much difference between the two.
2006-10-06 19:50:31
50.   BlueCrew Bruin
Gameday must be pulling my leg. Did Abreu really just try to bunt, down 6-0 in the 8th?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-10-06 19:54:17
51.   Bob Timmermann
He was bunting for a hit, but he did inded try a bunt. It rolled just foul as it went up the third base line.
2006-10-06 19:56:57
52.   D4P
Yeah, in fact they're exactly the same kind of institution: a university. Uncanny.
2006-10-06 19:57:18
53.   Daniel Zappala
46 Sounds like you're right on schedule and applying now would be fine.

47 Bob, I just can't imagine you holding a grudge.

2006-10-06 20:00:55
54.   D4P
Bob's Grudge List

1. Lottery
2. Cardinal fans
3. Rubber-ball-at-neck-throwing fans
4. Scorer who didn't give Jae Seo the 3-inning save

2006-10-06 20:01:01
55.   Terry A
To my knowledge, Arkansas has no lottery. We do have legalized gambling in two locations -- ponies in Hot Springs and greyhounds in West Memphis -- but no state lottery.
2006-10-06 20:01:44
56.   Bob Timmermann
Penn and Portland State do both play Division I-AA football!

I never hold grudges. Grudges seek me out!

2006-10-06 20:02:56
57.   Terry A
To be clear, one may bet on ponies in Hot Springs and on greyhounds in West Memphis. To my knowledge, the animals themselves do not gamble.
2006-10-06 20:04:59
58.   ToyCannon
Frank Robinson probably pulled some strings to keep your dad from selling lotto tickets.
2006-10-06 20:05:06
59.   Bob Timmermann
Don't people in Arkansas get to play in some multistate lottery?

I guess it's just that Utah and Hawai'i have no legalized gambling of any kind.

2006-10-06 20:05:33
60.   50 years a Dodger Fan
39 Why do you think we built Mesquite, NV? About 20 miles from the Utah border. (That 20 miles is Arizona)
2006-10-06 20:06:05
61.   Bob Timmermann
That list is way, way, way too short.


Now, it all makes sense!

2006-10-06 20:06:43
62.   GoBears
The typical university hiring cycle starts January and ends March or April

Must depend on the field. In political science, first application deadlines are in mid-September. Interviews have already begun for this cycle. They sometimes last through March/April, but not often.

I gave a talk at BYU a couple years ago (friends in the polisci dept). I agree - great place to teach. The undergrads are really bright and hardworking. My only complaint was that I couldn't get a cup of coffee in Provo before my talk. Not surprising, but not real great for my concentration level either.

2006-10-06 20:07:19
63.   ToyCannon
If the Dodgers can't go I'll almost be just as happy if the Tigers can trip up the Yankee's.
2006-10-06 20:09:46
64.   Terry A
59 - I do not believe lottery tickets of any kind may be purchased within the state. I live 15 minutes from the state line, and many folks cross into Missouri each day to purchase tickets.

And also to escape Arkansas, if only briefly.

2006-10-06 20:10:37
65.   Bob Timmermann
A beach ball on the field in Detroit! L.A. is taking over the world!
2006-10-06 20:12:27
66.   Daniel Zappala
55 57 Funniest set of messages I've read in a long time!
2006-10-06 20:12:57
67.   D4P
Most of the job announcements in my field seem to come out in the fall
2006-10-06 20:13:24
68.   Daniel Zappala
60 Hey, there is also Wendover, NV, which is half in Nevada, half in Utah. Casinos on the Nevada side.
2006-10-06 20:16:09
69.   Terry A
66 - My high school English teacher (winces and) thanks you.
2006-10-06 20:17:18
70.   Daniel Zappala
62 I suppose that's probably right, that it is different for each field.

There is no coffee on campus at BYU, but you can certainly get a cup in Provo. There's a coffee place right downtown. On the other hand, no, there isn't a Starbucks on every corner. In fact, there are no Starbucks in Provo, but there is one 3 miles down the road in Orem.

2006-10-06 20:19:01
71.   twerp
Zumaya clocked in the 8th at 102 tonight. Think he hit 103 twice yesterday and had a few more over 100.

So I guess the 103 ties him with Mark Wohlers for fastest ever clocked on a radar gun...

2006-10-06 20:26:20
72.   Terry A
70 - That's a really interesting perspective, and I mean absolutely no disrespect. The uniqueness of the situation really strikes me, because the binge drinkers at the Christian college I attended (for one year) were always bummed that they had to drive 20 minutes (up to Possum Grape) to get their liquor.
2006-10-06 20:31:45
73.   ninjavshippo
whatever happens to nomar, all i want to say at this point is thanks for a year that surpassed all of my (relatively modest) expectations. he may have been hurting more than helping down the stretch, but he definitely entertained and i'll have a soft spot for him, even if most perceive him as a merc.
2006-10-06 20:40:36
74.   still bevens
Man this was the first Tigers game I've watched completely and it makes me thankful for our team. So many guys on their lineup batting .260 because of large numbers of strikeouts. How do they manage to win so many games?? Obvious answer is good pitching. Must be Angels syndrome. Lets hope they keep their whole pitching staff intact for next season so they dont fall off precipitously like our neighbors to the south.
2006-10-06 20:42:56
75.   ToyCannon
I can't imagine any Dodger fan not appreciating the season Nomar had for us from being the offensive catalyst in the 1st half to producing the big hits in key games even while his production declined significantly in the 2nd half. It is to bad that his body will not allow him to ever be what he was at an age when most stars are still producing.
He would make a great utility player ala Rich Aurilia for the right price but I think his days of teams depending on him for a starting job are done.

I believe I owe GoBears a beer next year at DS since part of the bet was that Nomar would hold up physically and he didn't.

2006-10-06 20:44:31
76.   ToyCannon
Carlos Guillen is one of the great underrated players in baseball. Course that is just my opinion and is not based on any BP statistic.
2006-10-06 20:45:07
77.   Bob Timmermann
Sad news on the Griddle.
2006-10-06 20:47:22
78.   Terry A
That truly is sad. He will be missed.
2006-10-06 20:49:03
79.   PlayTwo
And Jackie tossed a glove to the new arrival and signaled to Satch to go on with the game.
2006-10-06 21:02:39
80.   JoeyP
"When it's said and done, it's about character in this game," Tomko said.

Consider this statement.
Then consider the person saying it.

Then, try not to let your head explode.

2006-10-06 21:12:28
81.   Daniel Zappala
72 That is an odd parallel, but there generally no binge coffee drinkers on the BYU campus. :-)
2006-10-06 21:15:46
82.   sanchez101
does no one realize that no team has a decent scouting report on Loney? Loney hit .380 in AAA and crushed the ball after getting called up. Once the scouts get a prolonged look at him and the pitchers are allowed to adjust, then Loney will come to earth. But, until then, Loney should be like Ethier when he was first called up. He's our best weapon in the lineup. Seriously, I would bat him 3rd, simply because no one knows (right now) how to get him out consistently, especially an especially hittable picher like Trachsel.

Considering that Nomar has been injured for some time (obviously), replacing him with Loney COULD be huge. Now, if only Little could break out of the box and replace Lofton with Repko, it would improve the Dodgers chances by a large margin.

When the Dodgers where down by 4 in the 9th of that game against SD, I thougt to myself down the 3rd base line that somehow, someway the Dodger were bound to get back into this thing. I thought to myself "they will have to hit 4 home runs because otherwise there is no way they could hit a grand slam against hoffman" and they turned around and hit 4 homeruns, two against hoffman. This team WILLLLLLLLL win on saturday, I can feel it.

2006-10-06 21:20:47
83.   overkill94
30 Bob's line is wrong, actually, the Dodgers are at -135 and the Mets are +125. I believe he was looking at the odds if you go with the spread, where the Dodgers are -1.5 favorites, but at +160 while the Mets are at +1.5 at -180.

Which is actually a bummer, I was gonna put money on the Dodgers to win if the odds were good.

2006-10-06 21:21:49
84.   Xeifrank
Any guesses as to where Loney bats in the lineup and how the rest of the lineup will shake up in the wake of the Nomar injury?
vr, Xei
2006-10-06 21:24:57
85.   D4P
2006-10-06 21:32:13
86.   Xeifrank
85. Lugo starts in the OF? and bats 3rd? I would think Ethier or Anderson would get the start in LF over Lugo. Anyone else?
vr, Xei
2006-10-06 21:38:05
87.   overkill94
2006-10-06 21:39:01
88.   D4P
Yes, Lugo starts in the OF and bats 3rd.

Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger...

2006-10-06 21:49:51
89.   Bob Timmermann
Good thing I don't gamble! Except at Santa Anita.
2006-10-06 21:50:06
90.   Daniel Zappala
Or Loney could start in LF...
2006-10-06 21:53:12
91.   D4P
Whatever it takes to get Lugo in the starting lineup and the #3 spot...
2006-10-06 22:00:13
92.   overkill94
We used to go to Hollywood Park for our fraternity's Mom's Day event. I swear I bet on 20 horses and didn't win once. Horse racing is dead to me.
2006-10-06 22:06:13
93.   dzzrtRatt
I wish Grady would have a hunch about starting Ethier this weekend.
2006-10-06 22:14:03
94.   Sushirabbit
I hate to see Nomar hurt, but secretly hope it hopes land him cheaply as great bench player future hitting instructor.

Was Shedow in that Seventh Inning Seal movie?

And I think Mr. Rogers had "the pause" long before the blue paw prints. Not that it's a bad thing to be interactive with kids.

Yes, I need to go to bed...

2006-10-06 22:17:50
95.   regfairfield
76 I was talking with my friend about fantasy baseball, and I was shocked when he mentioned Carlos Guillen was one of his best players. I just sort of laughed and quickly went to "Carlos Guillen did what!?" The man out OPSed Miguel Tejada and Derek Jeter and not a soul noticed.

I used to have Lance Berkman as my most under appreciated player, simply because he's not recognized as a superstar when he should be, but Guillen takes the lead from now on.

2006-10-06 22:38:03
96.   Daniel Zappala
Bronx Banter is its usual self tonight. You know, the Tigers are a very good team. Just because the Yankees have a great lineup that has gotten a ton of hype, and have spent $200 million, doesn't mean they are obligated to play in the World Series this year. Throughout the history of baseball, good teams have failed to win championships. It happens.

Give some respect to the other good teams in this league.

2006-10-06 22:46:56
97.   Greg Brock
For many Yankee fans (not all, but many), winning the World Series feels like some sort of birthright.
2006-10-06 22:48:43
98.   D4P
I went to a game at Yankee Stadium in June, and was appalled by the sense of entitlement that was evident among the fans there
2006-10-06 22:54:11
99.   Bob Timmermann
97 98

You folks should talk to UCLA alumni around the ages of 55-65 about basketball.

They are insufferable.

2006-10-06 22:57:18
100.   Greg Brock
99 I was produced by two of them.

Of course, they aren't insufferable, they just wanted to destroy Steve Lavin.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-10-06 22:57:42
101.   D4P
The UCLA alumni around the age of 40 are bad enough... :P
2006-10-06 23:00:57
102.   Bob Timmermann
Nothing more fun than having a coworker telling you after UCLA loses its third basketball of the season, "UCLA only lost three times when I was there."
2006-10-06 23:04:35
103.   Greg Brock
102 Okay. Well yes, I do get that kind of thing from the parents.

They aren't, however, the rabid fan types. They just expect the basketball program to be a perennial top 10 team (as do I), which I don't find to be an outlandish expectation for UCLA.

Of course, with Coach Howland here, I think that UCLA's prospects for the future are just fine.

2006-10-06 23:06:54
104.   Andrew Shimmin
100- Me too. My dad also wanted to destroy Lavin. My mom's strongest opinion about him was that his shirt collars were weird.
2006-10-06 23:09:06
105.   Greg Brock
104 Oh no, it wasn't about the coaching. I too wished to destroy Steve Lavin because of the shirt collars.

Wasn't that what the whole thing was about?

2006-10-06 23:20:05
106.   overkill94
Oh man did I hate Steve Lavin. It would have been worse if my allegiance didn't actually lie with Arizona (blasphemy, I know). The guy seemed to have absolutely no game plan, no control over his players, no in-game strategy, etc. My theory for how they ended up making it to the Sweet 16 every year was that it took the whole season for the team to gel, so by the time the tourney came around their output had finally caught up with their talent.
2006-10-06 23:24:02
107.   Greg Brock
106 I actually didn't hate Lavin on a personal level. I just resented the fact that he was given the keys to one of the great programs in sports with absolutely no experience. He was out of his league.

Of course, I heard him more and more on ESPN, and began to realize what a mess he is.

2006-10-07 00:33:19
108.   das411
So who wants to go hit up BBanter tomorrow around, say, 7pm ET and tell them their winter vacations are starting "early" due to nothing more than a Failure Of Will? Jon's rules (especially #3) do not apply equally Toaster-wide, right?
2006-10-07 00:43:16
109.   Ken Arneson
108 #2 and #3 are pretty much the same as the one and only rule:

2006-10-07 01:19:04
110.   xaphor
Damon pins the Yanks downfall on losing their swagger:

We negatively need to have more life, ...that inner confidence that says, 'Every time I go up to the plate, I'm going to get the job done.' And when you don't, the next guy needs to have that confidence.

2006-10-07 01:20:10
111.   xaphor
109. Good luck against Spain tomorrow. They will be gunning for blood after their loss to N. Ireland.
2006-10-07 06:49:28
112.   Bluebleeder87
Let's hope our fortune changes at home
2006-10-07 07:27:25
113.   dzzrtRatt
I just took a quick tour thru Bronx Banter. Oh my. You'd think the Yankees were cursed, like the Boston Red Sox. The suffering, the rending of garments, the scapegoating of A-Rod. Oh where oh where is our trophy and who took it away from us? Waaaaah!

I've been a baseball fan for 40+ years, and I've never understood how anyone could root for the Yankees. Not only is the team given every advantage that money could buy, but their fans are repellent! A bunch of extremely spoiled 11-year-olds with a roomful of toys who do nothing but throw violent tantrums. They remind me of the "before" kids on one of those "Nanny 911" type shows.

Dodger fans, any fans, can get negative. But at least there's some appreciation of how hard the game is, how much respect a good opponent deserves, and how much luck is involved. Yankee fans truly believe money buys happiness -- guaranteed! Ugh.

2006-10-07 07:30:08
114.   Sam DC
RIP Buck O'Neill.
2006-10-07 07:31:36
115.   MSarg29
A NY Daily News columnist is pushing the theory that the Dodgers have already given up.
2006-10-07 08:02:04
116.   adraymond
That makes me mad. She's talking like the Dodgers still haven't showed up in this series. While that arguement might work for game two, it in no way works for game one. I can't wait to win three in a row.
2006-10-07 08:06:49
117.   dzzrtRatt
Any columnist who begins with the chestnut, "The sense here is..." deserves to work for the NY Daily News.
2006-10-07 08:10:57
118.   Sam DC
Obviously, The Griddle's got all your Buck O'Neill news and comments. I missed it because it had already been pushed down.

Sorry Bob.

2006-10-07 08:19:33
119.   Bob Timmermann
That's OK. I had a request to push it back up top for the rest of the day and I don't think I'm going to post anything for much of the day.
2006-10-07 08:24:52
120.   Bob Timmermann
I will say that Cliff and Alex are not like the typical Bronx Banter commenter and they write about the Yankees very well.

Fans of all the good teams in sports do so with a great sense of entitlement. Why does Notre Dame fire a football coach once he has one bad year? Why did UCLA go through basketball coaches for a while like Imelda Marcos on a shoe shopping trip?

2006-10-07 09:29:44
121.   dzzrtRatt
120 Agreed on Cliff and Alex. Their posts are worth reading. It's the comments where this behavior is exhibited -- and at Yankee Stadium, and anywhere Yankee fans gather.

I see your point, although Notre Dame isn't quite the same thing, in that their fans do seem to understand they can't be #1 every year. They seem to have a particular expectation each year, and if it isn't met or exceeded, there is hell to pay.

Yankee fans' only expectation seems to be: We spent the most, we should win it all. Kenny Rogers, that bum, beats us? Waaaaa!

2006-10-07 09:29:58
122.   Sam DC
120 I'd wondered about that too -- the comments at BB are so different from the tone and approach of the blog itself. Here, the two seem to fit together better.

Meanwhile, I have exactly one free hour today when I'm not wrangling kids or otherwise occupied (including a dispiriting and unavoidable potluck dinner tonight from 8 to 11) and it's right now. Amount of baseball on tv -- zero. Expect I'll just catch the Cards-Pads warmup before I've got to go.

2006-10-07 09:31:51
123.   Greg Brock
The Bartow/Cunningham/Brown/Farmer/Hazzard years could have all been avoided, had Denny Crum not gotten tired of waiting for Coach Wooden to retire.
2006-10-07 09:47:20
124.   gibsonhobbs88
113-121 - I whole heartedly agree with you. The Spoiled Yankee fan does not know what suffering really is. They are in the playoffs every year with a chance to win because money can buy pennants and get you through 160 games. Playoff baseball is a different animal. Most of the rest of baseball fans realize you are going to have good years and bad years, the natural order of baseball is cyclical. Yankees are an aberration because they could always pay their way to a division title by accepting overpriced players from other teams at the trade deadline. I hope the Tigers finish them off today and send the Yankees home to feel Ol George's wrath!

114 - God bless Buck O'Neill. I hope the HOF voters who voted no to keep him one vote short can sleep at night with a clear conscience. Shame on them!!

2006-10-07 09:51:04
125.   Greg Brock
Ken Rosenthal's new article says that if the Yankees lose, Torre could be gone, A-Rod should be traded, and other big changes are in store for everybody's favorite band of merry mercinaries.

To that, I can can only respond thusly...

Go Tigers.

2006-10-07 09:52:08
126.   gibsonhobbs88
116 - Yes. Let's show them. If not the baserunning gaffe in game 1, we have at least a 3 run lead not one run in the second inning. We still came back to tie that game. We had the tying run on 2nd base in the 9th in that game, how can you say we did not show up? Glavine in game 2 was masterful and when he is on, he can make a team look flat. I prefer to give the Mets credit for winning game 2 as they executed and played like a team that won 97 games.
2006-10-07 10:01:00
127.   overkill94
So most places say that the game starts at 4:35 today, but ESPN says it starts at 5 pm. Is this because the game's on Fox and they don't want anyone to watch it? Either way, I'm gonna have to listen on the radio since I'm going to the UCLA game today.
2006-10-07 10:09:45
128.   overkill94
Although it covers some of the same ground that's been covered before, there's another Russell Martin gush piece, this time by Yahoo:

The bit about the dinner check was really cool, I don't think I'd heard that one before. I have a feeling this kid's gonna be even more of a fan favorite than LoDuca was.

2006-10-07 10:12:40
129.   Greg Brock

Did everybody like LoDuca as much as I'm led to believe?

I always thought it was more of Dodger fans trying to wash away the memory of Piazza and fooling themselves with LoDuca than anything else.

2006-10-07 10:17:44
130.   underdog
I really like Joe Torre, so while it's hard to root for the Yankees I do find it hard to root against him specifically. If he is "done" if the Yankees lose, I hope it's on his terms and not that he's fired. It is amazing how cocky Yankee fans were about the Tigers in general and specifically going against Kenny Rogers yesterday - even with his past problems vs. NY, he's been pretty strong at home.

Re: LoDuca, I did like him because of the energy he brought and because he was indeed an improvement on people they'd been trying out at catcher before his arrival, but I understood why they traded him, given his continual drop offs after every all-star break. Russ Martin's arrival has made it even easier to forget about LoDuca. (I would have preferred we keep David Ross as a backup, too, but also understood why management had given up on him...)

2006-10-07 10:24:12
131.   underdog
Btw, more Dodger locker room bulletin board material:
The SF Chronicle's Bruce Jenkins' on how the playoffs have exposed the mediocrity of the NL West:

Even though Jenkins' is a little hard on everyone, most of what he says on the surface is pretty much true. But he makes his own assumptions about the Dodgers that they could do something to disprove with a couple of wins here.

2006-10-07 10:29:12
132.   Bob Timmermann
Jon posted a Cardinals-Padres chat thread in case anyone wants to venture there.

There's me and one other guy.

This is the first game I'll get to watch all the way through!

2006-10-07 10:30:10
133.   underdog
But according to Bruce Jenkins the Padres are irrelevant!
2006-10-07 10:38:02
134.   Linkmeister
The Yankee fans might have remembered that for a while this season the Tigers were 40 games over .500; it wasn't unlikely that they might play that way again.

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