Starting Lineup

Where's Torii Hunter...?

Oh, Philosopher King, ruler of men and author of much renown, could we get a total tally of the committed payroll? What's the damage?

Maybe D4P, or "Math Man", could tally it all up for us.

Carl Crawford, Rocco Baldelli, and Aubrey Huff must be on the shopping list if Ned plans to continue his effort to reconstruct the 2005 Devil Rays. Barry Bonds, anyone?

2
You do the math...

4 It's around 82 million, just using the players and salaries that Jon posted.

i would never watch another dodger game if they got bonds. i have morals.

I think Tomko will be gone, because I remember there was an article where he said he expects to be the closer and frankly he does not deserve to be. If he becomes an irritance we may deal him.

Bonds* would seem to be a good fit for the other "LA" team

Bonds is Tori Hunter on steroids...

Antrelle Rolle almost ruined my campaign for Friends of Dodger Thoughts Fantasy Football Championship.

bonds is the anti-christ. oh, sorry, didn't mean to violate rule #6. bonds is a bad person.

8 There is no other "LA" team.

For some reason, I have come to loathe the Angels. I don't know why, I never hated them as a youth. I can't quite place my finger on it. They were always kind of a cute little non-factor, and now I despise them. It's not Arte, whom I have much respect for. It's not Scioscia, who's a Dodger. It might be the silly rocks in the outfield, but I doubt it.

Help me out, people.

how about Carlos Lee in Dodger blue? i hear him & Saenz go way back.

12
Rex Hudler.

I wonder if there will be any effort to convert Broxton into a starter--especially if we trade Penny or etc...

The best benefit to Carlos Lee would be Vin saying El Caballo.

12 It can't be Rex, because he's a gritty little non-factor joke, like the Angels. But Rex doesn't help, that's for sure.

I had tickets to today's game. Since that is out and Fall does seem to be in the air, I'm going to make my first "cold weather" meal. Marosszeki Heranytokany, or Hungarian beef and pork stew.

16

Vinnie saying El Caballo will be as fun as him saying El Presidente, priceless

18
Carl: Now wait a minute. This is just purely a social call. You know, just two adults getting a stew on, man.

Buster: I don't know what that means, but it sounds disgusting.

Garciaparra playing 3rd for the blue does sound fair but at what price?

(Adopts WC Fields voice)

Where are the mustaches?!?

is it me, or looking back at the dodgers of this decade, do you feel the same as when you think about your exes? as in, what the hell was i thinking dating todd hundley? he never, ever treated me right. or kevin brown, mr. domestic violence waiting to happen. or hot spanish lover raul mondesi, who wined me and dined me and then once he, ahem, got what he wanted, he started walking around the apartment in his torn up underwear and telling me to make him a sandwich. the list goes on and on, but i will stop now because i'm feeling a little dirty.

What annoys me is the way the organization seemed to think it had its own proprietary way to win baseball games for the last 3 years. I'm referring to the whole high avg with RISP "strategy", aggressive bordering on kamikaze baserunning and general rejection of plate discipline. They play in a 4-team division with Vlad and $100M to spend- they should be favored every year. Once Glaus & Guillen left they acted as though they could get by with grit and hustle. A league avg offense could win them 100 games with that pitching staff.

Cards? Pads? Cards? Pads? Man, this is a hard choice. It used to be automatically for the Cards, but Bob's antipathy toward their fans has rubbed off on me. But the Padres?

Erk.

23
Was Paul DePodesta the Math Boy you turned into Math Man...?

23 Got that "He's Just Not Into You" feeling, huh?

I've met Hundley and his now ex-wife. Be gald you never dated him.

23 Actually, looking back at my exes, the problem was usually me, not them.

I guess that makes me Kevin Malone. I'll go ahead and put the hose in the exhaust now.

You can be glad too. Jeez

and i suppose that loduca, green and mota are like the exes you see on the street just passing by. you stop and exchange a pleasant word, and then go about your day feeling good that you can be civil. then you see their new girlfriend, and she's hotter than you (i.e. they go farther in the playoffs) and all of a sudden, you hope they fall off a cliff.

23 paul was the really sweet boy who just didn't understand the female anatomy. you know that one day he'll get it, but you don't feel like teaching him, and you're comfortable knowing that he'll make other girl very happy one day.

that should be 26, not 23

While everyone lines up to overpay for Soriano, Lee and Hunter I'd like to see Ned try to work a deal for one of the following: Vernon Wells, A Jones, Dunn or dare I say... Manny. Jones is still only 29 and has 10/5 veto. But either Wells or Jones would setup a nice Kemp/Ethier battle in LF.

Pedro M. is like the ex who lost 300 pounds, solved the acne problem, starting bathing regularly, learned kama sutra, and won the lottery, all after you dumped him/her

34 if you date someone who has 300 pounds to lose, you need to reevaluate your standards ;)

Man, Oswald has been really rough on D4P today.

31

i really hope you're a girl, right??

piazza was the superhot boyfriend i had that i got drunk and picked a fight with, dumped, immediately regretted dumping but couldn't get back because he immediately met someone better, and then tumbled into a series of bad relationships, culminating in low god-please-don't-let-me-die-alone relationship i had with jason phillips.

35
I would have said something like 20 pounds, but Pedro M. was worth a lot more within the context of the analogy

Don't you think a little bit of the Dodgers' problem is: they don't have any glaring holes to fix?

To me that means that they somehow have to replace one or two of their solid regulars with a star. And that seems a harder way to improve a team than filling in a gaping hole with a solid regular.

They were a good team this year. Probably their biggest hole was middle relief, and that's the kind of crapshoot every year where you can't guarantee success with $ (see: 2006 Cubs.)

Maybe they could get the Yankees to trade A-Rod. Short of that, and landing a big bopper who can handle center field, I don't see much for them to do besides hope the young guys show natural improvement and the vets don't fall off a cliff.

Catcher, second, short, and right are set. Third could be a platoon of LaRoche and Betemit, with Saenz mixed in. Left could be a Kemp/Ethier/Werth?/Repko scene. The rotation looks okay the way it is right now. Maybe they could add a true #1 starter.

So it seems hard to figure how the team makes a lot of moves this offseason, and should probably shoot for one or two big ones.

i love d4p! i kid cause i love!

17 - It can't be Rex, because he's a gritty little non-factor joke, like the Angels. But Rex doesn't help, that's for sure.

Three postseason appearances in five years, including a title, doesn't strike me as being a "non-factor joke".

40 I wouldn't bet on a third base prospect with TWO torn labrums.

42 Okay, they had a nice little run. You are correct. And the other 40 years?

i'm gonna bust an oswald & say that A Jones is very dreamy & would look good in Dodger blue.

33 - Manny has no place being on a National League team, and especially, no place in a park like Dodger Stadium. He gets a lot of slack in Fenway by virtue of the fact that there just isn't that much left field to patrol.

d4p, i am soooooo sorry if i offended you. it was just banter. sometimes the typed word comes off harsh when it's not meant to.

46 I know- it's irrational. I'm just advocating going against the grain and trying to find a Rowand for Thome type deal. It's out there somewhere.

47
No need to apologize here. I like banter and repartee, especially the witty kind...

1 -- You always know where Torii Hunter is. Always...

D4P likes witty repartee...And Torii Hunter.

if we get Schmidt & Carlos Lee i'd be very happy

You always know where Torii Hunter is. Always...

Are you implying that I'm a Torii hunter...?

53 Man goes on rampage as Hunter becomes the hunted.

zito will sign for less in l.a.

and i think barry is dreamy. if he comes to the dodgers, i will definitely be a groupie.

55 If Zito becomes a Dodger for less money (not happening), I too will become a groupie.

In a completely non gender bending way.

55

Boras is the devil!!

The hostility on the Raider board makes last night (on DT) look like a hippie jam fest.

58 I didn't know that Raider fans knew how to type.

44 - those years are germane to this discussion, how? You're griping about the Angels, the franchise, now, as presently constructed, n'est pas, not the Angels under Gene Mauch, Jim Fregosi, Bob Rodgers, or Bill Rigney? Because if you aren't, I can also dig up a whole lot of years in which the Dodgers were also irrelevant: the 1920's, for instance, or the interregnum between Koufax's retirement and the advent of the Garvey-Russell-Cey-Lopes infield. Your claim was that the Angels are irrelevant, which, under current circumstances, is in no way true.

We can sit here all day and night and chatter about Sandy Koufax's dominance, but barring time travel and some substantial medical advances, he's not appearing on the 2007 roster. Neither is Orel Hersheiser, Jackie Robinson, Duke Snyder, or Johnny Podres. All the Dodger history in the world won't make next year's team a good one; last year's accomplishments, good and bad, are just that. Time to turn the page, and think about how to improve this team for next year.

Is "Toriii" the plural of "Torii"...?

60 Wow. I was simpy making an aside about the Angels. I didn't know your passion about the subject ran so deep. Sorry for having an opinion. No more Angels talk from me.

59 They use that voice-actuated software.

I didn't know that Raider fans knew how to type.|

that species owns a computer??

that species owns a computer??

Well, technically, they stole it...

40 - disagree. 3B and possibly LF (depending on your opinion of Andre Ethier's long-term value) are holes. CF is a hole by virtue of the fact that there is no way management goes in for a second helping of Kenny Lofton. RF is a hole depending on how much you like J.D. Drew to recover from his awful year. The one position I think the Dodgers can reasonably expect almost automatic improvement is first base.

66 I don't understand why Drew's 20 HR, 100 RBI season is considered an "awful" year.

66 JD Drew had an "awful" year?

It may not have been splendid, but "awful" is a pretty strong word.

62 Rob mans the 6-4-2 Angel/Dodger blog, so he would understandably be passionate about them.

59
Well at least they are finally realizing we are not any good.

I can't believe how good the Bears are. All my Chicago friends are going to be insufferable.

i think Schmidt ending up in Dodger blue is more realistic than Zito, simply because of the Boras factor.

60
For some reason (my stupidity is the best guess), I didn't know you were the 6-4-2 author. I really like the site, and you do a great job. How did I not connect Rob with scareduck? I am a moron. Sorry, Rob.

That said, the Angels don't matter. ;)

Woody Willims reminds me of the bad guy in old westerns

72
Zito and Schmidt are going to get so many offers, Zito especially. I think someone will offer him more money then we possibly can.

Ned is also familiar with Schmidt, but I have heard rumors that he wants to go to Seattle because he is from Washington.

I seem to be continually defending Drew, which isn't my chosen lot in life, but whatever.

The guy played in more games for us this season than he ever has for anyone before (146; he played in 145 for the Braves a couple of years ago). He hit .283, grounded into 4 DP all season, struck out 106 times in 494 AB, and as said, had 20 HR, 34 2B and 100 RBI.

He had a pretty good year and stayed healthy most of it, partly by Little's keeping him out of some games. He's been shown to be fragile; when given the kind of rest he got this year (he only missed 16 games) he performs quite well.

Argue his contract is too big, but that's not his fault.

I perplexed by scareduck's comment that Drew had an awful season.

Can you back up that claim because I just dont see the awfulness in his 2006 season.

75 Schmidt is from Idaho, if I recall correctly.

73 You're not alone, Mr. Brock. I can't stand the Angels either. The whole franchise and fan base has become absolutely insufferable ever since 2002.

78
Maybe he was raised there? I do not know. I think Buster Olney said it, I have no idea why he would make it up.

Incidentally, I still waiting to hear the details about what Oswald likes to do to "math boys".

I can't believe I just typed that sentence. I'm going to go watch football now.

Carpanter looks like he's out of wak today

I don't have the hatred for the Padres that some others do, so I'm rooting for them. I'd like to see Piazza get a ring.

Where does Zito rank on Ned's list of Best Left-handers in the American League...?

As a huge Mets and Piazza fan, the choice is between the emotional turmoil of Piazza at Shea AGAINST us vs. facing any team with a Pujols on it. I'm leaning towards rooting for the Cardinals.

And Carpenter does look a little screwy so far.

The end of the last thread has a very comical feel, where Oswald is dropping hints about making boys into men and mom, I mean Jon, seemingly (though uninentionally, I'm sure rushes in -- "New Thread Open Up Top".

It just lines up funny.

Hey Oswald, I recall you once dropped an inscrutable (to me) puzzler here, but I can't remember what it was. I think it was the meaning of your handle, unless maybe it was your true first name. I recall lots of talk about the "rhymes with mulva" episode of Seinfeld.

Did anyone ever solve it?

If we could get Oswald and Christina together, Icaros would be in heaven.

this is from zito wikipedia entry:

Zito — whose hobbies include yoga, rock guitar and surfing — is known for his idiosyncrasies. His personality has made him a media favorite. He once made it a practice to buy his own autographed baseball cards on eBay; when asked why he bought them at auction for high prices rather than acquiring unsigned cards and signing them himself, Zito replied, "Because they're authenticated." In addition, Zito carries satin pillows on the road, collects stuffed animals, and burns incense to relax. Many Oakland fans first became aware of Zito when, early in his career, he dyed his hair blue. He has since earned the nickname "Planet Zito."

86
I seem to remember that I was the one who suggested "Mulva." But a search of Dodgerthoughts just produced nothing...

i'm leaning towards the Cards as well, but overall i'm backing the motor city

Some of the knowledgeable people here may know about this==

Is pitching really the 80% of the game I've heard it is? If so, how was that figured? Why not 70%, or 60%?

The Yankees probably now think it's closer to 100%....they got pretty much shut down by it. And they didn't have much of their own.
(Guess that's why Torre and A-Rod are on the hot seat. Neither of them pitched very well.)

Detroit scored 21 earned runs in 4 games off Yankee pitching. NYY playoff ERA? 5.56.

For that matter, the Mets scored 16 earned runs off Dodger pitching in 3 games. Dodger playoff ERA? 5.76, worst of any team.

Very small sample sizes and all that. Small sample or not, this is when it counts. Something Colletti probably will mull over for '07.

sam, i'm surprised you remember that! and i thought the same thing when the new thread opened. don't worry jon, no matter how much these guys ask, i'm not giving any details ...

oswald is the male version of the short version of my female name (a lot of my friends started calling me oswald because of drew carey). given that i'm not of american descent, this is going to be very difficult for you guys to figure out.

McCarver's avious (sp?) meter looks kind of high today, should be fun.

Ned try to work a deal for one of the following: Vernon Wells, A Jones, Dunn or dare I say... Manny. Jones is still only 29 and has 10/5 veto.

Dunn and Jones should definitely be targets. I'm just not sure I'd give up prospects, when you could just wait out the 2007 season and sign them as free agents after it.

Dodgers definitely need a CF'er. I'd like Edmonds/Byrnes on a short-term basis, and then Andruw Jones for 2008+(until his career is done with). Jones in CF, and Dunn at 1st for 2008 beyond, to go along with the kids would be a great nucleus.

Williams also looks out of wak!

wak & wak = wakky?

Posts 66,67,68,76,77 show why rule #7 was created. (I'm going on the assumptuon that Scareduck was bien sarcastic)

and Dunn at 1st for 2008 beyond

i hope i'm not in the minority here but Dunn is not the kind of hitter i like, the llooonnngggg swing alone makes me puke

What has happened to Dunn that last few years?

2004: .266/.388/.569/.957
2005: .247/.387/.540/.927
2006: .234/.365/.490/.855

What exactly is American decent? European?

88 laugh out loud at the thought of Zito buying his cards and signing them himself. He is probably just trying to drive up the value.

Just scrolling through previous comments and saw someone mention Jayson Werth as an option for LF next year. I nearly forgot that guy was alive. Are we certain that he still is?

92 Yeah, I did remember that I sure wasn't able to figure it out.

So, my 5 year old was at a birthday party today where the family paid a high school baseball coach they knew like $50 and he Tom Emansky'd them and then they played a big fu messy baseball game. Good time. At the end, each kid got a stack of mixed baseball cards. Our stack even had a Dodger -- Mike Hartley.

I'll admit, I had no recollection there was ever a Dodger named Mike Hartley.

102
I wonder if Werth can sue the Dodger medical staff for malpractice

Gosh what awful and sloppy writing. It was the kids (not the family) that got drilled and that played ball. And the game was fun, not anything that could be described with an f and a u.

Matt Kemp, CF

Ugg. That guys center field defense makes Kenny Lofton look good. Kemp has a lot of potential and may achieve it as soon as next year, but I'd like a verteran in center at least to start the year. Kemp's plate discipline right now is fugly. Edmonds on a one year deal would be nice.

Loney, Kuo, and Billingsley all deserve to start.

2006 IN REVIEW
The toughest part of being a teacher—a job that is frustrating but invigorating, oftentimes both at once—is that I don't get to post on this site as much as I'd like. So I have to write posts that make up for months of inactivity. I did this last year, stealing most of the information from others and stealing this format as well (thanks, Bill James).

Without further adieu…

OVERVIEW
2006 Won-Lost Record: The wildest 88-74 you ever saw.

Best Player: not nearly as obvious as last season. Rafael Furcal was statistically the best position player, but for much of the year there were others that played better: J.D. Drew, Andre Ethier, Russel Martin, Nomar Garciaparra, among others. Derek Lowe might be a candidate. If asked, I would say Furcal but I wouldn't be too comfortable with the choice.

Weak Spots: This team had Bipolar disorder. You like roller-coasters? The Dodgers had ups and downs by any measure you can pick: month, week, game, individual player… you name it. Specific to the team, third base was the only position that was truly below average and the team defense was at times horrific.

Best Starting Pitcher: Derek Lowe

Best Relief Pitcher: Takashi Saito

Staff Weakness: mainly had to do with ex-Devil Rays.

Best Bench Player: I'm going with Olmedo Saenz.

Most Pleasant Surprise: Impossible to pick; there were too many good ones. Andre Ethier, the-guy-we-got-for-getting-rid-of-Milton-Bradley, was a ROY candidate for much of the season. Ditto catcher Russel Martin. Nomar Garciaparra's signing was pilloried by many, including yours truly, and he turned in a memorable season (Hee-Seop-Who?). There were others: Aaron Sele pitched far better than expected, Chad Billingsley was pitching like a Cy Young candidate for awhile, Greg Maddux was a mediocre Cub but Greg Maddux with the Dodgers… but for my money, the top surprise was Takashi Saito, a 36-year old Japanese League journeyman who become as good a closer as there was in the National League.

Biggest Disappointment: Eric Gagne's season wasn't really a season at all and he has likely played his last game as a Dodger. It's a shame. Few players were more fun to watch.

Park Characteristics: cuts down on singles, doubles, triples but doesn't hurt or help the homerun hitter.

ORGANIZATIONAL REPORT CARD
Ownership – C (I'm sticking with what I said last year. Anything higher or lower would cause a storm of controversy)
Upper Management – B (probably would've been an A if not for his Devil Ray fetish)
Field Management – B+
Front-Line Talent – B
Second-Line Talent - B
Minor League System - A
This is an organization in good shape though the leadership at the top is a constant question mark.

2006 SEASON
Background: Not satisfied with the controversy surrounding the 2005 preseason, the upper brass decided to fire their manager so as to provide a vote of confidence to their GM, whom they promptly fired not long after. They brought in Ned Colletti in November who perhaps overpaid for a free-agent, brought in a seasoned vet, and made some trades. In other words, he made moves not unlike his predecessor. Thankfully for him, he was a "baseball guy", so his moves were shrewd.

Outlook: Same as last year. Most thought the Dodgers or Padres would win a weak division.

Getaway: The Dodgers went 12-12. The fans waited for something to change, a way to define to the team. Perhaps a streak of some kind…

Low Point of the Season: On Sunday afternoon, April 30th, the Dodgers led San Diego 5-0 in the bottom of the ninth. Lance Carter and Danys Baez took eight batters to give it all back and the Dodgers lost in ten innings, 6-5. If Franz Kafka were in the stands he would've winced. They lost their next four as Dodger fans looked longingly at the bottle.

High Point of the Season: Then they won five straight, then seven in a row while taking 15 of their next 18. The debacle against the Padres was fast becoming a distant memory. Dodger fans looked at the bottle and smiled while opening.

Streaky with a capital "S": Then they lost five in a row, won four in a row, lost five of six, and won three straight. They were 46-42 at the break but it was a bizarre, maddening 46-46. Dodger fans didn't know whether to drink from euphoria or depression but they were drinking.

Low, low, low point of the season: They started the second half losing 13 of 14. One could have been forgiven for thinking the season was over. Dodger fans looked longingly toward the glue tube.

High, high, high point of the season: Unbelievably, the team won 17 of their next 18.

Low Point… ah, you get it by now: They hit the skids again. They couldn't seem to beat San Diego unless Greg Maddux was on the mound, until the...

Damndest thing you ever saw: Monday night, September 18th, year of our lord 2006. My mother was there: "Perfect strangers were waving at each other, smiling like people do when they've shared something wonderful." Jon Weisman has memorable posts every 9/11. He'll have to come up with another annual gem every 9/18.

Stretch Drive: They won 9 of their last 12, including their final seven games.

And one more thing: James Loney had nine RBI in a single game.

Low Point of the Post-Season: see "Dodger Post-Season, 2006."

Major Injuries: Eric Gagne, as mentioned before, has probably played his last game as a Dodger and has perhaps seen his last game as a premiere closer. Yhency Brazoban missed the year, as did Jayson Werth. Bill Mueller, brought in to solve the teams black hole at third base, suffered a knee injury that probably ended his career.

Offense: Above-average in nearly every category but homeruns.

Defense: Uglier than sin. For Strat-O-Matic fans, the Dodgers led the league in 4's.

Pitching: Solid. A 4.23 ERA, good for fourth in the league.

Number of players having good seasons by their own standards: Everyone except the rotating players at the hot corner.

Over-Achiever: Marlon Anderson

Under-Achiever: Julio Lugo

Infield: was just like the team—streaky. All four positions had more moments of greatness than incidents of darkness which didn't make it any less stressful to watch.

Outfield: fine when they put the bat to the ball, not so fine when said ball needed to be caught.

Catching: Playing nearly every game down the stretch, Russell Martin did not wilt and turned in a fine season. Of all the youngsters, Martin is the only stone-cold lock to start next season.

Starting Pitching: was very stressful to watch. They made it but when you look at the season, you wonder just how they were able to make it. They gave up fewer homeruns than any team in the league and I would be very interested to know if Rick Honeycutt had anything to do with that.

Relief Pitching: Like the starters, the numbers hide the stress of the season. Remember when Lance Carter was the setup man and Baez the closer? That seems like a long time ago but that was the plan and it was scary. Saito was a godsend and Jonathon Broxton looked terrific but like every aspect of this team, it was a roller coaster ride from beginning to end.

ETC.
Hall of Fame Watch: Greg Maddux is in on the first ballot. Jeff Kent and his mustache will one day grace the halls of Cooperstown. Nomar just made himself a problematic candidate instead of someone to write off entirely. If he has a few more years like 2006, you can change the word problematic to possible.

Best Interview: He's got a surly reputation but I really enjoyed the interviews with Jeff Kent.

Best Fundamental Player: J.D. Drew

Worst Fundamental Player: Wilson Betemit

Best Defensive Player: Cesar Izturis/Greg Maddux

Worst Defensive Player: Kenny Lofton

Best Command of the Strike Zone: J.D. Drew

Least Command of the Strike Zone: tie between Betemit and Julio Lugo

Fastest Runner: you could get a helluva foot race between Furcal, Lofton, Lugo and Jason Repko. I think Lugo would win.

Slowest Runner: probably Saenz

Best Baserunner: Rafael Furcal but you could argue for at least four others. The biggest change in the Dodgers from 2005 to 2006 was how well they ran the bases. For that, I credit Grady Little and his staff. I think Grady placed importance on every aspect of the game because he cared about his club which stands in stark contrast to his predecessor.

Most Likely to Still Be Here in 2016: Martin and/or Ethier and/or Loney and/or Billingsley and/or Broxton and/or…

Best Fastball: Broxton

Best Breaking Pitch: Saito's slider and Lowe's second-half sinker

Best Control: for the year, it was Lowe but after the break, Greg Maddux.

Most Overrated Player: Pick a Devil Ray, any Devil Ray.

Most Underrated Player: Willy Aybar

Manager's Pet Strategy: Grady Little doesn't take a whole lot of risks, from what I can tell. If I were to summarize the man in one word, that word would be "comfort." He seems to be a very comfortable, remarkably sane man. And it's a good thing because this season, he had to be.

Most Fun to Watch: Another big difference from last year's squad is that this was one fun team to watch. I enjoyed watching Nomar, Martin, Saito, Broxton, Lowe when he was on, Furcal when he was on and if you don't like watching Greg Maddux pitch, you don't like baseball.

Least Fun to Watch: Lance Carter, Mark Hendrickson and at the end, Julio Lugo.

Managerial Type: still Jeff Kent

What Needs to be Done for 2007: Don't screw up. The Dodgers have a good thing going, obviously, but Ned Colletti's penchant for trading minor-league potential for big-league bench players has to stop. Paul DePodesta would never have traded for Mark Hendrickson, not in a thousand years because he would've known what should've been obvious to Colleti: the big lug's numbers were inflated. And yet there was Colletti prancing on about how Hendrickson had "turned it around" and was having a fine season when what the big guy had going for him this year was four things:
1. Luck
2. Dumb Luck
3. Pure Luck
4. Sheer Luck
You want a prediction? Here's one: as a group, the Dodgers that were traded away will out-produce the Dodgers that were brought in. That's not the only measure of a trade's success, I know that. But Dioner Navarro, Willy Aybar, Joel Guzman et. Al. could've been traded for something more than what we got back, IMHO.

Outlook for 2007: in spite of the above comments, the future's so bright, we gotta wear shades.

Due for a better season: I think Chad Billingsley puts it together for '07 and has a fine season.

Likely to have a worse season: I think Jeff Kent will continue to decline but still be better than average.

BTW, for Saito, it's basically take the Dodgers' offer or go back to Japan, right?

Spicio (sp?) should let go of that red thing he has under his lips

I consider myself a decent American.

100
*descent

Did not even notice that.

107 Addendum to above: Greg Maddux should be italicized the second time he's mentioned in "Most Pleasant Surprise."

Hee-Seop-Who?

I may cry.

I also consider myself of American descent.

113 By far the toughest thing I had to type but I couldn't resist. I still hope the best for the big guy but I picked Choi over Nomar before 2006 and I was happy to be proved wrong.

Walda is the Germanic feminine form of Oswald, so perhaps Waldina (or some variation there of)?

Waldina

Hmmm, I suppose that could rhyme with a part of the female anatomy, if pronounced a certain way...

Nice breakdown SB. Certainly gives one something to smile about while watching the insufferable Padres continue to play post-season ball.

109 The way you spelled that could lead to some interesting, and possibly offensive pronunciations. hehe.

I think Kent will be solid next year if he stays healthy. A 2B that can bat .280 and hit 20 HRs is worth having. Kent was still in the top 4-5 of second basemen in terms of VORP this season.

I will give up my future first born for Carl Crawford.

Vernon Wells, Andruw Jones, Adam Dunn, A-rod are hitters that Ned should target. He should stay away from Torii Hunter and Alfonso Soriano.

Andre Ethier and Brad Penny need to be dangled, Jeff Kent should be given away to any team willing to assume the rest of his contract.

Brad Penny Scott Elbert, and Chin Lung Hu for Carl Crawford
Andre Ethier, Jeff Kent, and Tony Abreu for Vernon Wells
Sign Vernon Wells to a 5 year $70 million extension
Sign Barry Zito for 5 years $75 million
Sign Saito to a 2 year/$6 million deal- that's the only way you're going to get him to stay
Resign Maddux for 1 year/$8 million (yes, it's a rip off, but the alternatives aren't any better and he's not going to take a pay cut)
Trade a midlevel prospect for Jose Castillo. The Pirates are really down him (thanks to Jimbo)

1. rafael furcal ss
2. russ martin c
3. jd drew rf
4. vernon wells cf
5. carl crawford lf
6. james loney 1b
7. wilson betemit/andy laroche 3b
8. jose castillo 2b

Zito
Lowe
Maddux
Billingsley
Kuo

Mopup tomko/dessens
Long reliever/spot starter hendrickson
SU brazoban
SU broxton
CL inning saito

McCourt is going to have to pony up if he really wants to see significant progress.

40 I agree with CharlieBrown, it's tough when you already have someone who's at least league average at every position. Conceivably we could go with martin, loney, kent, furcal, laroche/betemit, ethier, kemp, and drew next season, but I don't think that line-up would be good enough to win the division. I don't want to depend on that many rookies, but those guys don't really have anything left to prove at AAA. I think the harsh reality is that to improve our line-up we're gonna have to trade some young talent. Let's just hope it's traded for the right guy(s).

i like that Kemp is going to the Dominican & "work out" his outfield/batting issues"

Belliard's two-run single looked like every one of those awful things that were hit against us yesterday.

Why must you torment me, O Lords of Baseball?

120

i like A.Jones over Dunn & Wells specialy Dunn

120
I would rather give up my first born child than Scott Elbert. But I do agree with you, we need Crawford!

Just say "No" to Andruw Jones

115
I just got off the phone with a student who missed six weeks because she had a baby. The conversation consisted of "You missed six weeks. You're going to fail this quarter. I'm sorry you missed most of the quarter, but you cannot have makeup work to cover the entire hisory of western political thought, the enlightenment, the reformation, the American Revolution, and the French Revolution."

127
How old is the student?

I hope you're a college teacher...

i can't believe Piazza isn't playing today

127 Fifteen years old. Yup, a mother at 15. Good luck, kid.

131
Hopefully she has some family and financial support.

wow, Molina has a major league catchers arm

...and she's worried about failing world history. Maybe she should've paid more attention to family, or community, history.

132 Nope.

Unfortunately, I'm being pressured to give her a passing grade, despite the fact that every other kid in class has shown up, taken notes, studied hard, passed every quiz and test, and worked their tail off to get a good grade.

What a horrible message to send to kids.

Man I've seen some bad strike zone calls this post season. According to Steve Lyons, the post season strike zone is 6"x6".

i had no clue McCarver played for the Phills in nineteen eighty

135
Man...

Sign Barry Zito for 5 years $75 million

If Burnett got 5 years, the most durable pitcher in the MLB might want 6.

136 this post season

last year was no pick nick

He and Boras have stated that they want a 6-year, 90-million dollar starting point.

138 My school is garbage, and I'm leaving as soon as I can. The administrative support doesn't exist, and most teacher just get together and complain about every student. It's the worst type of environment for passionate teachers.

141
My jaw just hit the floor.

the most durable pitcher in the MLB might want 6.

HA!!

Administrative support in public schools? Does it exist?

I don't know what to make of it, either. It's hard to believe a pitcher would get a six-year contract anymore.

142
So basically your life is like Stand and Deliver.

Boras makes me sick to my stomach, i swear if i were a G.M. i wouldn't deal with him PERIOD!!

144 - I'd do 6, but not for 90M.

It's kinda hard to believe that Boras has made such a name for himself. I mean, how hard is it to demand outrageous contracts? Can't anyone do that? What's so special about him...?

142. LAUSD? I knew a guy who worked as a gym teacher in South Central for many years. That isn't something I would wish upon anyone, but he was a Giants' fan, so c'est la vie.

I had this ridiculous idea that teachers comprised a community of caring, smart individuals who want to make a difference. Unfortunately, I have learned that most teachers are jerks.

As fans, are we:

1. not supposed to consider whether long, expensive contracts are in the "best interest of the game itself," or are we
2. supposed to assume that long, expensive contracts are in the "best interest of the game itself?"

As far as I'm concerned, long, expensive contracts may be great for players, but not so much for the game.

overpriced, indeed. i can't believe we're paying brett tomko over $4 million.

I wonder if Jeff Weaver regrets holding out (and ultimately settling for a 1-yr deal) last offseason. That's the only time I can remember that Boras didn't get close to what he demanded.

145 Administrative support in public schools? Does it exist?

i have a huge opinion on teachers in my area, specialy because a good friend/paisano is a teacher, but i'll leave those negative thoughts to my self.

155. If he manages another miraculous post-season performance some fool GM will give him a nice contract.

153 - What do you mean by "expensive?"

Juan Encarnacion is so awesome. If I were a 15 year old girl, I'd totally have his baby, even if it meant flunking Mr. Brock's class.

159 You mock me.

157 - If he does it against the Mets he might. Five innings of shutout NLDS ball against the Padres alone wouldn't get you much.

(If Jeff's strikezone against the Mets is near the size of Maddux's, he won't get out of the first inning.)

160

ACT-ing!

159- I didn't mean to. I was just trying to tie the thread together. And profess the awesomeness of Juan Encarnacion, which transcends human understanding.

160. Did you ask if Pauly was the father? I hear he gets around. :)

I have learned that most teachers are jerks.

not all of them, i swear my friend Gustavo Rojo was brought to this earth to teach, he trully trully cares.

The plural of Juan Encarnacion is Torii.

Ah the good ole days of teenage adolescence.

why are you guys watching this boring game? Dont you realize theres a Law and Order SVU season 7 marathon going on right now on USA!??!

i'd give Zito 2 years at 20 million, take it or leave it Boras

If I've learned anything from teaching, it's that good people should stay away from the teachers' lounge. It's the place where adults get together to complain about students, rail against standardized testing, and whine about everything and anything.

Torii is for nerds, like math-boy. Juan Encarnacion is the Truth. He is the Light. A thousand years from now, History teachers will teach their children B.C., A.D., and J.E.

169

lol, its not like Boras has 25 other teams he can go to.

168 again? I just saw a season 7 marathon last week.

Anyway, I've seen every episode on the evening news.

168

alot of us want to see S.D. loose it takes out some of the sting of last night.

169. He might die of laughter... On second thought, go for it.

173

this is the season part of it. last week they showed first half of the season.

Barry Zito's uncle is Patrick Duffy. We need Patrick Duffy as a fan.

...like we need him as a leg.

LaRussa likes the suicide

178
Exactly!

Scuzzlebutt can win the triple crown.

So will Mariska Hargitay come back to Law and Order, or is she done?

Ummm, I seriously hope the river wash in my backyard doesnt overflow because i would be in deep trouble...

He might die of laughter...

i'll stand firm & won't falter.

Not to mention his ability to bridge the gap between the fifth and seventh or eighth inning.

If we could get Oswald and Christina together, Icaros would be in heaven.

Did somebody ring my bell?

That was D4P, he thinks you're Torii Hunter.

183. How high is the water momma?
Two feet high and rising, well we can make it to the road in a homemade boat 'cause that's the only thing we got left that can float.

And as titillating as oswald's comments might be, there's something about that handle that just doesn't sit well with me.

Kinda like cyber-flirting with someone whose screen name is "Hammerin' Hank."

Thom Brenneman & McCarver sound dead today.

If the reports are true... Piniella might give up a lot to reunite with Hendrickson and Hall.

what are the dodgers chances of getting Matsuzaka

there go the padres! i'm glad that the man responsible is claw meredith.

135 A good out, if you're feeling pressure, is to go ahead and create an extra set of quizzes and tests and have her take them. If she hasn't been attending class or studying she's not going to pass them anyway. You can always use the extra questions for future years.

189

i don't get it?

192 what are the dodgers chances of getting Matsuzaka

i hope slim to none

First, thanks for a nice year, Jon.

Here's some guesswork for '07 ...

- Nomar gets resigned, 3 yrs/$30MM, to play 1B.

- Ethier and Hendrickson are part of a trade that brings a CFer -- Wells, A.Jones, there are others out there.

- Loney is annointed the starting LF and part-time 1B (think Buckner '71-'74).

- Kemp gets a long look during Spring Training while we feel out whether Drew's $33MM might be of interest to a trading partner, say maybe Boston.

- Betemit becomes the starting 2B by the All-Star Break (Kent either struggles, is hurt, or both); keeps the position the next 4 years.

- Because I don't think we'll find takers for Penny, there's no Zito or Schmidt in the future. We may end up trying to talk Jamie Moyer out of retirement (wouldn't be a bad option, really), who together with Maddux - who re-signs - gives us the pitching version of this year's S.F. outfield.

One of the big sticklers will be how to handle the Saito contract situation. I think you need to prepare to pay him considerably more than $1MM despite his MLB status; will be interesting to see how that plays out.

Anyway, it was a very surprising '06, and I look forward to a great '07.

Greg Brock, you need to come to Utah to teach. I think you'll find a different environment here. And the housing is cheap.

That was D4P, he thinks you're Torii Hunter

I'm seeing Toriii everywhere these days

For the right price, I'll be D4P's Torii Hunter anytime he wants.

And why does Torii Hunter get one more i than Tori Spelling? She has more money than he does.

198. And the housing is cheap.

…with plenty of spare bedrooms. :)

Icaros has a lot of hang ups. No crazy drunk girls, no unisex names. . .

For the right price, I'll be D4P's Torii Hunter anytime he wants

Is Boras your agent...?

Who better to discuss the spelling of Torii than Tori Spelling?

[196] *192 what are the dodgers chances of getting Matsuzaka

i hope slim to none*

what?? why? that guy is awesome.

[198] i think i would rather live in any part of LA than in utah. the scenery's nice there, though. beautiful state.

Meanwhile (I'm not watching, just monitoring on Yahoo!), Mike Piazza just ended the Pods' 8th inning rally, hitting into a double play.

Satisfying.

The last thing I want in the NLCS is a Fox prattling about the ex-Dodgers on both sides of the field, "while today's edition sits home and watches."

I can handle Jeff Weaver being there. He's really more of a failed ex-Yankee a la Ed Whitson.

anyone think the yanks are going to bring moose back? he has a 17mil club option and a 1.5 mil buyout for next year.

206 I guess it would be okay if it was "a Fox." Just not Fox.

207
I think he is gone, I think Sheffield is gone, and perhaps A-Rod.

201 Yes, true. In Oregon, I had a hard time finding a house with more than 3 bedrooms. Here I have trouble finding a house with less than 6 and smaller than 3800 square feet.

205 South Central? Also, the skiing, hiking, and boating here is much better.

209

if he leaves, he could be a option here in LA I would think. Solid vet who can still pitch, doesnt need a long term deal, can bridge the gap to elbert.

207- they'll probably decline the option and bring him back at a cheaper rate (2 years $20 mill). He's "proven" that can pitch in New York and that means a lot to the Yankees.

202

I don't mind crazy drunk girls if they're not in my home destroying everything.

And unisex names...I'll have you know that I'm trying to work my way into the life of a gorgeous young Leslie as we speak.

By the way, I'd like to thank you people for not alerting me to this:

http://www.rocketbelt.nl/Rocketbeltconvention2006.htm

Seriously, I don't know why I keep coming back here when something like a Rocketbelt Convention doesn't get mentioned until it's well over.

Leslie is such a terrible name for a guy.

rivers is okaying well.

and my fantasy team is unstoppable.

I read once, but haven't seen it confirmed, that the construction of the new stadium frees the Yankees' of their luxury tax obligations. If that is true it essentially raises the Yankee payroll 60+ million dollars without them spending an extra cent.

okaying= playing.

204

he's pitched way to many innings, he's a great pitcher don't get me wrong.

213- crazy drunk girls are definitely bad; a few of them got my party shut down last weekend. The campus police came and my 21+ friend had to deal with them for almost half an hour while I hid in one of my roommate's rooms with a couple of my underage friends.

i honestly don't care who goes to the WS from the national league anymore. i'm going to root for the AL team.

216
It is impossible to stop the powder blue uniforms.

And to add to that, I hadn't even been drinking

Jackie is a bad male name as well.

220
So many people in SB have to go to AA for that reason.

crazy drunk girls are definitely bad

I happen to like crazy drunk girls.

221

The Motor City woo!!

226 I happen to like crazy drunk girls.

odds go way up with crazy drunk girls, so i concur.

226- not when they are knocking over beers and almost get you kicked off campus ;)

i actually had an experience this weekend with some crazy drunk girls. long story short, my moral fiber was pretty strong friday for some reason so the night ended in futility.

And to add to that, I hadn't even been drinking

Now I know you're making the whole thing up.

I only like crazy-drunk LOOGys.

What?

...my moral fiber was pretty strong friday...

Now I know you're making the whole thing up.

229

thats when its the most entertaining. especially when they run out of their own beer and then you can make them do entertaining things to get your beer. :P

[210] sure, probably. if i could pick my street and house. i was born in lynwood, and my dad worked in compton for over 20 years. utah just seems like a socially stultifying place. i need some diversity of culture and activities. besides, i don't ski or own a boat, and there are plenty of places to hike in california :)

233

I wish i was considering the flack ive been getting for 2 days now from my friends.

[227] [cough]oakland[cough]

232. But they can never seem to keep their traps shut and break down to their fathers the next day.

231- there were 30 people and one beer pong table. I had maybe two beers in an hour, so basically I was sober.
232- Joe Beimel was definitely not at my party. I wouldn't want him breaking one of my shot glasses.

Amazingly, DT readers have highly overrated drunks in the past few weeks. Can't think of anyone less fun to be around than a drunk. You guys are managing to lower my esteem for the DT readership.

here's my buddies website

www.gustavorojo.com

Coming into the discussion late here but I enjoyed Jon's looking ahead (and Bear's looking back) post.

So Toby Hall is a free agent, too? I know he was annoying about playing time early on, but he seemed like he'd actually be a good backup catcher (if he wasn't still stubbornly thinking about himself as a starter). If he's gone, and obviously Einar really is a placeholder, who is our second catcher next year? There's no one really yet standing out in the minors to back up Russell, so I'm assuming we'll sign a free agent or career backup type. Maybe Paul Bako's (re)available. Hm.

I'm on record as saying I hope we make a play for Zito, though I know with the Boras connection he's gonna command probably way more than the Dodgers price range. But you never know- maybe a hometown discount. He's so much more durable than Penny - whom I wouldn't be averse to trading.

Any decent free agent CFers out there? (Besides Lofton, ahem.) Edmonds has a been a great player but I wonder about his durability at this point, too. Otherwise it's Kemp (if he can indeed improve his centerfielding skills)/Kemp/Drew as the CF possibilities in house.

And whither Jayson Werth? Sounds like he may be okay after all - after they finally figured out a way to fix his wrist. If he's back next year, the question is how effective, and with the Dodgers or another team...

237

i'd concur if only i didn't have so much family in Detriot

"Crazy drunk girls"? You guys are scaring me. Drunks really are overrated in the "fun department." They're not all as handsome and delightful as Barney Gumbel.

As far as whom to root for at this point, all I know is it'll be an American league team. I loathe all three remaining NL contestants and hope the winner (likely the Mets) gets spanked in the WS. But that's just the vindictive part of me.

Cardinals are in, Padres are out.

245
I think there are only 2 remaining NL contestants

So you've been following Mike Cameron too?

...some people are at the Law and Order marathon.

245 Oops, sorry, I meant two. My brain's on tape delay, apparently.

240- Meth addicts are much less fun. Geometrically less. I don't think anybody really likes the company of drunks, much, at least not for long. But there's a rich tradition of American drunkenness that has to be respected, culturally, at least. Where would we be without the Whiskey Rebellion? Or Hunter Thompson?

We have some younger commenters here at DT, strapping young lads currently working their way through universities around the globe.

I believe there is a time for crazy drunk girls. As a two-time college graduate, that time for me has clearly passed, but these young Dodger fanatics should not be condemned for exploring the pleasures of the wilted flower.

Soon enough, each will find his own way, and these maidens of the night will be but a dot in the rearview mirror.

When I was younger I had a job behind the bar at a small pub and got to know many a drunk from a sober person's perspective and much like everyone else, they vary across the entire spectrum of personalities possible. It is just that they are not thinking about what they are doing when they do it. You have conflicting bouts over whether this makes them endearing and likable or repulsive and objectionable and I found such feelings depended greatly on my mood rather than theirs.

Bob Timmerman would point out that the Mets vs. the Cardinals is a playoff matchup that has never occured before. Likewise, Tigers vs. Mets. However, Cardinals vs. Tigers and Mets vs. A's would replay two memorable series matchups of my lifetime.

Did anyone see when Hunter S Thompson was on Conan and he had them go to his firing range and he had a full stocked bar and bartendar there?

It was hilarious.

242 I'd have no problem with Toby Hall as a backup catcher. Problem is he'll be near impossible to resign. I assume he's going to want to test free agency and get a starting job, so we can't resign him before the arbitration deadline. Since you can't take the risk of offering Toby Hall arbitration and getting stuck paying him around three million dollars, he walks and we can't negotiate with him.

This free agent business is a crap shoot. The Yankees have spent over a Billion in the last six years have not come away with a ring. The Dodgers do not like to negotiate with Boras because, in the past, they have been caught negotiating against themselves. That might change this offseason. Where does Bonds spend '07?

257
Good point. Gammons had an article on how the 04 off-season Lowe has ended up being the best pitcher and most of the pitchers have failed.

256 Probably true, too bad the nature of the business gets in the way of what "should be" most of the time. I don't know what team will have Hall as a starter at the price range he'll demand but I'll probably be wrong. Edwin Bellorin here we come!

Btw, from previous thread and comments, I personally would be happy to have Torii Hunter in CF. At least he can, you know, field, and well, and can hit pretty well - but again, the reality of the marketplace will make him too expensive for what he is and for what the Dodgers will pay for him, I'm guessing. Go ahead and laugh at me now too. Long way to go til next Spring, so CF will def. be a hot spot to watch in LA.

[257] Where does Bonds spend '07?

orange county.

i don't like fried food

Andruw Jones in '07 or '08

260 Which town outside of SF has booed Bonds the least? Maybe that's the answer (I don't know if such a place exists but...) He should be a DH, and yet which AL team? I don't know.

257 Im hoping with the Yankees. Nothing's going to stop them from making a mockery of the game, so I'm just going to enjoy it. Think of this lineup:

Damon
Jeter
Bonds
A-Rod
Giambi
Abreu
Matsui
Posada
Cano

All you can really do is look at that and laugh.

260: It makes sense that Bonds would end up in OC. Their is really on one left in the clubhouse to take a stand against his antics. Put him behind Vlad and everything changes. Jeff Weaver, per the Times, was put on medication for ADD (I think that's what the diagnosis was) late in the summer. Maybe there was something to that.

263

i'm guessing Oakland can't afford him.

259

I agree Center Field is the place to watch for us. Ned will probably let Eithier, Kemp and maybe Loney, if Nomar is resigned, battle for left field. We need some power. Who is available. I hear Vernon Wells, but don't know much about him. I would hate to see both Gagne and Nomar go, but in all likelihood that might be the case. I'd keep Repko. He is cheap and plays pretty good defense with a great arm and can pinch run. I still hold out he might be a good hitter, although after he came back he was horrible I admit.

As for catcher, Toby Hall should have got some more time this year I thought. He won't come back though. Wouldn't be nice to have David Ross back? A good defensive catcher with some power. Who would have thought.

what i want for next year (not necessarily what will happen):

1B loney
2B kent/merlin (not an actual platoon, but frequent rest for kent)
3B nomar/betemit (ditto)
SS furcal
CF ethier/repko
LF c. lee or soriano
RF drew

bench (some have been mentioned before):
IF saenz
IF/OF anderson
IF betemit
OF repko
C almost anyone except jason phillips will do

SP zito
SP lowe
SP penny
SP kuo
SP billingsley

and pretty much jon's bullpen list minus dessens and plus a stults or something.

Who would have thought

Depo...? But the power (nee, the ability to even make contact) Ross showed in 2003 disappeared until 2006

oh yeah i forgot about kemp! if he's ready next year that makes things better.

269

I agree. He was horrible when we let him go

[266] god forbid that barry should ever be permitted to defile an athletics uniform. not even for a day.

god forbid that barry should ever be permitted to defile an athletics uniform

A uniform worn by such upstanding stalwarts of the game as Canseco, McGwire, and Giambi...

272
Chavez said he wanted him on the team, but Chavez says a lot of dumb things.

I think Reg is right about the Yankees signing Barry being the funniest possibility. So, that's what I'm rooting for.

defile me once, shame on... shame on you. besdies, those defilings (defilements?) were post hoc. it wasn't widely known beforehand. and none of those guys, bad as they were, inspire as much loathing as barry, to me.

i would LOVE to see barry go to the yankees, as long as they don't win the world series. it would be poetic justice. and if he has so much as a bad week in NY, he'd be booed at his own stadium. perfect.

defile me once, shame on... shame on you

Heh heh. Guideline #5 be darned

RIP Anna Politkovskaya, née Anna Mazepa.

Killed for trying to report the truth. Real sad.

Killed for trying to report the truth

Keith Olbermann may very well be next on that list

281

he's Mike Morgan of the news world

268- I'd stay away from both Lee and Soriano. Players with Lee's body do not age well. He'll end up as a DH within 3 years. Soriano is a good athlete, but I'd rather not see the Dodgers invest $15 million a year in a 30+ solid corner outfielder.

The guy I'd most want the Dodgers to acquire is A-rod, but that seems unlikely. Next on my list is Andruw Jones. Boras is going demand a Manny Ramirez like contract for Jones, which essentially would make him a rental. Settling for Vernon Wells wouldn't be such a bad thing.

272- I would have a very hard time rooting for the A's if Barry ever put on the Green and Gold. Besides, the A's will likely re-sign Frank Thomas, leaving no room for Bonds (both position and salary wise).

Bonds will be back in a giant uniform next year. Sure, the Giants would like to go younger, but their whole outfield is heading into free agency. Even though he's not the player he once, his production (though thwarted) will be difficult to replace through free agency and the Giants weak farm system. As much as dislike Bonds I think he will probably break the HR record on '07. Any GM or ayone with a pulse knows that will sell a lot of tickets. Barry wants to be a Giant and they won't want him breaking the record for another team

Isn't Andruw Jones a free agent after next season, not this one? So we'd have to trade for him, yah? Or you mean with Boras as his agent the extension LA would have to sign him to would be exorbitant? Probably true. I'd love to have him though. Wells wouldn't be bad either.

I think the Dodgers really just need one veteran power hitter and one starter and the rest of their team fills out nicely from current roster and rookies.

I do want them to think about defense when signing anyone new, or when forming the roster - their defense was just a lot more erratic this season, so I get a little nervous when we talk about Nomar or Kent at third (Kent at 2nd makes me nervous, too, but his hitting is so solid...)

Does anyone think Ethier could be a solid to above average CF. I agree Matt Kemp's defense out there is atrocius. I think Drew would be adequate out there, but too risky considering his fragility.

286 Going by the numbers and what I've seen, I'd have to say no. He wasn't a great left fielder according to the numbers, (95 rate2), and in at least my opinion, he doesn't have the quickness or the coordination to play an effective center. It seemed like Ethier fell down or similarly clumsy things far too often. I could just be imagining the second part, however.

285- both Vernon Wells and Andruw Jones have one year left on their contracts. Wells would be much more willing to see an extension than Jones. It would still cost the Dodgers around $14 million. Wells is also 2 years younger than Jones.

Vernon Wells seems pretty inconsistent.

OPS
2002: 762
2003: 909
2004: 809
2005: 783
2006: 899

What's up with that...?

254 - Someone does not remember the 2000 NLCS all that well, perhaps the presence of Jay Payton and Benny Agbayani on a World Series team has caused you to suppress all memory of those playoffs...

284 - But then what managers are out there who he will approve of in SF? Do they bring Dusty back??

Settling for Vernon Wells wouldn't be such a bad thing.

please see you're Players with Lee's body do not age well.

his body type is baging to gain weight

Adande has a new article up at the Times. Refreshingly, he wants to go with the young guys -- Martin, Either, Loney in particular. He also paints a picture of Colletti as a GM already going to work on 2007, with certainly some more moves to be made. Overall, a positive article on the new management, with Adande saying Colletti has earned our trust.

286 I do. I saw him play center for Sacramento when he was in the A's system and he looked ok to me. If I was Grady I would have played him in center this year, but then I am not that much of a Lofton fan.

Stan from Tacoma

Meanwhile, Henson, also on the Times, says Colletti wants a power bat, a front-line starter, re-sign Maddux, and bolster the bullpen.

Henson also says Colleti wants to bring back Nomar, Gagne, and ... gulp ... possibly Lofton.

294 So if he does all of that, where the heck does his shiny new power bat go?

290

Bonds is a fading star and doesn't have the kind of clout to influence a managerial decision. He's been in enough hot water of late, and if he's still in MLB with the team that he wants to play for, then who his manager is will not be his greatest concern.

Dusty won't be back and I don't think he'll be back managing anytime soon. He's not going to be a hot commodity after the Cub's disasterous season.

I would bring back Gagne only if we could get him cheap. I would let Nomar walk, I would let Maddux walk, and I would certainly let Lofton walk.

Colletti has earned our trust

meet

Colleti wants to bring back Nomar, Gagne, and ... gulp ... possibly Lofton

I know there are some major ifs here, but a bullpen with Gagne, Brazoban, Saito and Broxton could be intriguing.

Keith Law in his blog on ESPN.com (insider only) has a very dim view of Bruce Bochy's managerial ability.

"If I was the Padres' GM, I might not even let Bruce Bochy on the plane home, because you'll rarely see as bad an in-game managerial job as the performance we just saw. "

(insider only)

Rub it in, Mr. Prius...

300

very true. the Lofton thing scared the hell out of me!! i hope it's not true.

I would assume Nomar would want a few years on his deal and with all his physical problems he will probably lose a lot as he gets older.

Another year of Lofton would make us yearn for Torii Hunter. Unfortunately, I'm guessing Ned will place a lot of value on Lofton's .301 BA and 32 SBs.

To Lofton's credit, he had more BBs than Ks and got on base at a .360 clip. But I'm guessing Ned will not hold Lofton's 95 OPS+ against him...

302
Prius benefits:
1) Ride in the carpool lane with no extra passengers
2) High moral ground
3) Free ESPN Insider!

3) Free ESPN Insider!

The rich get richer...

305 This is why I'm convinced Ned is going to go hard after Soriano. Not only does he hit home runs, but Ned will want someone to make up for the stolen bases we'll lose when we dont bring back Lofton.

the Prius got recalled if i remember correctly :oP

The Prius was recalled and fixed within an hour.

310- It's re-call update with your host, Bob Timmermann! Was you laptop battery on the recall list?

Again, trying to make predictions as to what a GM will do based on what he says is a fools errand. Right now we only have one year of data on Ned and that is what we should be using to guess his moves this winter, not anything he says to the press.

86, 92 - Had I realized what was going on, I would have stayed clear out of the way.

2007 biodiesel-run Jetta > Prius

Was your laptop battery on the recall list?

Mine wasn't!

My laptop battery was not recalled.

314. Don't get me started on bio fuels. :)

The real high ground belongs to those of us who work from home and don't clog the byways with our commuting and pollute even less then the most economical car. Unfortunately my high ground will be cut out from underneath me in several weeks.

Right now I can't see Nomar getting more than a year plus an option anywhere, except maybe with the Yankees who can afford to shelf a player when he fades, or send him off to another team with cash. I like Nomar a lot, but really see him as a DH, playing infield as needed. I think he could be the next Paul Molitor. Only after a couple years as a healthy DH, could he command a multi-year deal.

As far as offense goes, I think the Dodgers season demonstrates that HR's aren't essential. We had any abyssmal display of power, but we scored a lot of runs and made it to the playoffs. I'm disappointed in how it went, but I'd take that over a lot power and a sub .500 season. Of course, I wouldn't mind more power, but I don't think that's the area of greatest concern. Drew, who has taken a great deal of flack this year in DT, still had a 100 RBI. I honestly think if he had a 30+ season with roughly the same RBI total that he wouldn't be getting shelled here. In the end home runs are great, but what matters isn't how the runs are scored, but that they are scored. Shoring up the offense isn't my biggest concern. Pitching is. That's why we're done now, not because we didn't have a big power guy. We scored 5 runs twice-- that should be enough to win with, but it wasn't mostly because our pitching failed is. I'd really like to see what the rookies do before we try add more everday veterans. That's the only we'll build a contender. This is a do or die year for the MET's. They are not going to become a dynasty. Beyond Reyes and Wright, they are a team mostly of hired guns who will soon be too old to contend into the future.

Let's build a yearly contender, not a steady flux of stopgap solutions.

I agree with the fact that the pitching let us down in the postseason, but more the relief than the starting. And the defense was poor, too. The Mets really nickel-and-dimed us to death--especially in game 2 and early in game 3.

All I can think about when I see a Prius owner is "Smug Alert!" You Prius owners think you are better than everybody else...

You don't have to have to put a fake person in the passenger's seat to drive in the carpool lane...

Ok, my parents own a Prius (they've had it for 2-3 years). My dad also had solar energy panels installed on top of our roof. That should tell you something about my dad.

It's not that we Prius owners think we're better than everybody else, we're actually are better than everybody else.

Scientific fact.

With all this talk about CFs, needing a power bat, and getting guys like Jones and Wells, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the best fourth outfielder in the game as a possibiliy, Ryan Church. He may be below average defensively, but he slugged over .500 and hit 10 HRs this year despite Frank's and Jim-Bow's attempt to keep him out of the lineup. And if the Nats somehow manage to re-sign Soriano and decide Logan is their new CF, he could be had for little. Whether Colletti is savvy enough to go after to him remains to be seen.

I differ from the multitudes here, but find myself in agreement with Jon. The Dodgers' situation allows them the luxury of not handing the job to a prospect, but allowing him to play his way into the lineup, which is how winning teams generally handle their prospects. Bill Stoneman tried it that way in 2005, and the Angels have suffered for it. Teams like Tampa Bay, Milwaukee and Pittsburgh do it because they haven't got a choice, and while it succeeds sometimes, it usually doesn't. The Tigers' young players still needed All-Star quality imports like Ordonez, Rodriguez, Guillen and Rogers to get to where they are.

The Dodgers can afford to overpay some for Nomar, although his second-half injury plague probably puts him right where the Dodgers want him anyway. We don't need to pretend we're a small-market team. The Dodger payroll should be in the top five most seasons.

The deal with Nomar was always a win-win. If he'd stayed as productive all season as he started the season, the Dodgers would be only too happy to give him a meaty contract. But because he fell prey to injuries, Nomar isn't going to get a meaty contract from anyone -- especially not the Yankees, who need pitching, pitching, pitching and more pitching and are about the only team in the history of baseball that can afford to let go of Sheffield and A-Rod, and still be among the top offensive teams in the league.

Let Loney or Betemit or Kemp play so well during one of Nomar's spells on the DL that we can trade him mid-season or at the end of '07. On the other hand, based on what we've seen in '06, if and when he's healthy, he's better than anything else they've got at first, third or left field.

Gagne is another story. Why would we pay Boras-like dollars for a guy who hasn't really played for two seasons? Why would anybody? If Gagne's willing to be reasonable, fine, bring him back. But I don't see his situation as comparable to Nomar's in any way. Gagne has to prove he can play. No one's paying $10 million just to find out. There's no comparable mystery with Nomar. Nor with Maddux. WYSIWYG with him. I'd sign him if he wants to keep playing.

Lofton... please. Colletti's just being nice. The big home run threat Colletti is looking for will probably be an outfielder, leaving one slot for Ethier, Loney and Kemp to compete for. In the end, Lofton was a good player to have in 2006, but he's dispensable now.

There is really only one thing that can fix this Dodger team and that is bringing in more Tampa Bay players. I'm not talking the young studs like Crawford, Baldelli, Young, or Upton but the castaways who found a home there like Wigginton(3b), Hollins, and Tomas Perez.

I agree with Ratt completely. I just want the Dodgers to come up with the right mix of players young and old, as they mostly did this year, as long as they are indeed planning on segueing to the youth. I wouldn't mind having Nomar back, you just don't want to have to count on him given his tenuous health - and with Loney around we'd all feel pretty secure. (I'm still not convinced Nomar can play anywhere other than first at this point - or DH.)

And I hope you're right about Lofton. I mean, as someone coming off the bench I wouldn't mind quite as much but he should not be a starter next year for anyone. But I agree, I think he's being nice since we're so close to their just concluded year - and they will try to sign one power hitter.

I wish Gagne would be reasonable and agree to an incentive contract with little up front - he hasn't proven he can stay healthy at all or contribute over the past 2 years and the Dodgers have remained loyal to him. I wish he would, but I'm not counting on it.

325 Toy, please, I'm eating breakfast!

I'm just shocked, shocked I tell you that no one is bringing up Sheffield as the bopper we need in 2007:)

He is an ex-SS even if it was ever ever so briefly. Thinking about that could we start an everday lineup of ex-shortstops?
1st - Nomar
2nd - Kent(3 games at SS for Mets)
SS - Furcal
3b - Betemit
RF - Sheffield FA
CF - Lugo
LF - Ramon Martinez
C - tough one, can someone help me out with anyone who is a major league catcher who played one game at SS in the major leagues? Bob...

Re: 324

dzzrtRatt, I just wanted to say I agree with everything in that post.

I also wanted to point out that even Ethier is a question mark. Sure, he for the most part had a great season, but this was a guy scouts had pegged as a 4OF for a while. I think he's better than that, but no one really knows. There are also all sorts of questions with Kemp. In short, there's no guarantee that either one will pan out, and with Drew made of glass, we need another solid outfield bat.

WWSH

329 How about that Jayson Werth fella? Okay, so his wrists are made of glass, but other than that!

Re: 330

For what I understand, Werth's wrist should be 100% by ST. Supposedly this wrist specialist at the Mayo Clinic finally figured out what was wrong. I'm cautiously optimistic about his prospects, but it's certainly isn't something we can count on.

WWSH

At least they Photostopped Werth into the team photo at the end of the year.

I'll renew my endorsement of Jim Edmonds, provided he'd come home to LA on a reasonably priced 2-year deal. A left-handed power bat that can still play a good centerfield, he provides a little cover in the likely event that Matt Kemp isn't ready.

Basically, he plays the role that Lofton did this year - 130 games in center, giving some starts to Repko (or Kemp) against some lefties.

RE: 333

I'll second that. I had no idea Edmonds was a free agent this winter.

WWSH

334 - He has a $10M option for next season, or a $4M buyout. I think StL is leaning towards buying it out, though I don't think it's a given.

I also think Edmonds has had issues with LaRussa this season. Not sure the specifics, but I recall reading something along those lines. I'd have no problems giving him a short term deal.

First of all, what Colletti is saying is just to keep his options open. Secondly, if he negotiates with Edmonds for instance, it is better if Edmonds thinks he may also be talking to Lofton. These factors apply to all our free agents.
I don't want to block Loney in any way but I'd kinda like to sign Nomar if we can get him cheap enough. Another factor in signing guys like Nomar and Lofton over and above how cheap we might get them is that they are also tieing up roster spots. We also must have space for people like Martinez, Saenz, backup catchers, and numerous bullpen stiffs.

324

yup, perfectly said i can't add anything.

Please don't anyone take this as an endorsement for re-signing Lofton as a starter. But if/when we go another way, if we don't replace him with speed, who will bat 2nd? Dodgers are already pretty slow. Take Kenny's speed out and replace it with another slow guy and it starts to be a bit of a worry.

This dovetails with my philosophy that fans are loyal to winners, not personalities

How else to explain the support around here for Jeff Kent...?

339 - Russell Martin looks like he's a classic #2 hitter (contact skills, good OBP, decent Olney aptitude).

Having 2 traditional-style leadoff hitters in the 1- and 2-spots, is one strategy but not the only way to do it.

Speaking of bullpen stiffs, whom can we dump, I mean, offer Tomko? Now accepting bids! Bids starting at a pile of magic beans on working up from there.

341 Martin is pretty quick for a catcher. But a lineup that has Martin, Nomar, Kent as your 2-3-4 is going to be a double play extravaganza. Speed is not everything but I do think that losing Kenny's speed at #2 is going to cost us. It can be made up with, say, a 40 HR hitter but I think it should be a concern.

Depending on what happens with Penny and Hendrickson this offseason, Tomko just might find himself back in the rotation. Through the end of April, at least.

343 - Lofton had 16 GIDP's this year in 469 AB's.

The others:
Kent - 9
Nomar - 15
Martin - 17

If the devil himself made me choose, I'd rather keep Hendrickson and dump Tomko. I'd rather keep Beimel. I'd rather keep Carrara. I'd rather get Jeff Weaver back.

My brother the Giant fan snickered when Colletti signed Tomko. Just wait, he said. At first you'll think he's great. But give him time...

344

ugh

344 Through the end of March would be better if you ask me. Otherwise, I feel like tossing my breakfast at the thought...

341 Previously mentioned options of Hunter, Wells, Soriano(?) would take care of speed concerns. Edmonds, at his age, less so... Maybe the addition of Kemp, if he proved himself next Spring, would help.

346 Could the Devil himself truly be so evil as to force you to make that choice?

346 Agreed, I'd take Hendrickson over Tomko, easily. At least Hendy ("Lurch") proved he could be effective out of the bullpen.

I'd take Beimel back if his teammates would. Carrara I think is done. But yeah I'd take most of those guys over Tomko, and I was one of those who felt the way the Giants fans did right at the beginning - why are we signing him? I saw how horrible he was with the Giants.

350 Remember how great Tomko was after his first 10 innings of relief work?

350 - Tomko looked good in his first 10 or so appearances out of the pen, too.

Bad pitchers are what they are, and given enough time I'm sure Hendrickson will be just as incompetent out of the pen as he was as a starter.

351 - Terrific, terrific point. :-p

Yes, he did look good, but I still waited for the other shoe to drop. That's what Giants fan knew as the Tease of Tomko. He's always had good stuff but has always been highly erratic and not always the smartest pitcher out there.

Which reminds me - another reason the Dodgers should keep Maddux. At least he'd smarten up (by osmosis?) some of their pitchers like Penny, Broxton, etc, who have a world of talent but don't seem to have much pitching savvy (Broxton being 22 has much more of an excuse).

Ned dons't know how to pick pitchers from what i saw this year, maybe only Maddux

I'd also love to see Brazoban back, and, as Jon suggests, potentially Greg Miller. Maybe one veteran long reliever (Hendy or Dessens, not great but very few long relievers are - that's why they're long relievers and not starters) mixed in with the young 'uns. Maybe Beimel will be back. Or, heck, Kelly Wunsch. I'll take the young guys with good stuff who need some seasoning over the guys we already know are going to implode.

328 I would think Sheffield would play for the Siberia Royals before suiting up as a Dodger again- whether or not the whole front office turned over twice since he left. That guy didn't burn the bridge- he nuked it.

333 Edmonds is an intriguing idea. I read the guy still has a ton of relatives in Diamond Bar. At 36 coming off a 109 game season he can't be expecting a 3 year deal. Maybe a Jermaine Dye type deal- 2 years $11-13M with a 2009 option. If we sign Wells/Jones the next year as FA then he moves to LF and we're golden.

[crickets, crickets]

358 - I'll bite. I'm sure ARod was discussed over the weekend (went to Saturday's game, and I couldn't bear the thought of reading through all the comments after I got home). Provided he was made available, what's the groupthink concensus on a max package to offer?

Penny, Betemit, and Broxton would be a good fit for NY I think. Another pitcher needed in there?

339
I've always felt JD would be an excellent number two hitter. Takes alot of pitches, giving Furcal plenty of time to pick his spot to steal a base with enough pop that once in a while he'll bring in Rafy all by his lonesome. Martin is okay but I love a LH number 2 guy.

359 I like that package though I think they'll be gunshy on Penny. D Lowe would get their attention. Then we sign Mussina!

I get the feeling AROD would relish the idea of getting out of the AL. If he has any say on where he goes I think we would be on the short list.

360 - I like JD at #2 as well, but as the one real left-handed power threat this year I think he needed to be in the middle of the order. If LA can bring in a lefty power guy (I don't think I'd want Ethier, Loney, or Betemit hitting cleanup just yet), JD and Furcal at the top would create a ton of RBI opps.

359 I wouldn't trade Broxton. Penny, Betemit, and Tomko. If that's not enough, throw in Biemel and/or Hendrickson or a prospect. Remember, they are anxious to move him, so Penny and Betemit and they pay some salary, or add Tomko and they pay no money.

360 I'd buy into that. I think he'd fit in nicely at #2. Especially if there is another big bat to add to the middle of the lineup. I'd still like to see us not be the slowest team in baseball but if Kemp can break through that would help.

363 OOPS! Make that 'wouldn't' into a 'would'.

Wasn't there an article on Drew in the times a couple of months ago about how his future is probably as a number 2 because of his diminishing power? I think Drew was the one saying that and not the reporter. It could have been during his power drought and things have changed, but I definitely remember the article.

360 - Of course, JD at the 2-spot would mean an increase in his bunt attempts. Yippee!

Nobody seems to be concerned about Edmonds' post-concussion syndrome. There've been a few NFL players who retired due to that problem.

This is for Miltie, from Deadspin:

"It's '92 or '93," Candiotti says. "I'm playing for the Dodgers, Jeff Kent is with the Mets. I'm in a fantasy baseball league. I don't have Kent on my team and he's off to a torrid start and he's killing me."

Ramon Martinez is warming up in the Dodgers' bullpen to pitch the series opener. Candiotti strolls to the pen and, within earshot of Martinez, tells pitching coach Ron Perranoski, "Perry, I just talked to Bret Saberhagen, and Sabes told me that if Kent gets drilled his first time up, he's mush for the rest of the series."

"Ramon just absolutely buries one in Kent's ribs," Candiotti says. "It was so bad that he went down on one knee, and he had to come out of the game. I sat there thinking, 'What did you just do? You told a complete lie, you got this guy drilled!'

I'd trade Penny, Kent and possibly a prospect (though Tomko as a throw in would be fine too) for A-Rod. The Yankees are going to want starting pitching and they could use a first baseman/DH (and Kent would probably benefit from 40-50 games as a DH). This would mean Betemit would have to play second (which I believe he has in his career).

I also like the idea of Drew batting second.

369
That is the kind of story Candy should have kept to himself. It is funny but it is wrong on so many levels.

368
Yes I'm worried about Edmunds age, concussion problems, lack of ability to hit lhp(< 500 OPS) but for some reason I want him in CF for LA for 100 games next year. Course I'm talking the Angels and not the Dodgers:)

Seriously I'd still like him manning CF against RHP for us in 2007 but just like Lofton he should never see a LHP. Plus he could also play a solid 1st if Loney has trouble in his first attempt at being the main guy at 1st.

Sorry guys, to get AROD you will need to give up a heck of a lot more they your willing to offer. He's a 31 year old HOF with a 5 year deal at 15 million in place. If the Yankee's put him on the block no less then 6 teams will be bidding on his services and the hacks your throwing out there won't cut it. They will want pitching and more pitching. They can sign anyone they want to be a 1st/DH. They have no holes in the offense. If they do decide to move AROD it will only be because they have decided to sign Soriano and put him back at 2nd and move Cano to 3b.
A lineup of
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
Soriano
Matsui
Giambi
Posada
Cano
whoever

Is still as potent as it gets.

Unless we trade prospects (whom the Yankees probably don't want?), it seems like whatever we had to give up for A-Rod would probably not be more than offset by getting him in return. In other words, the big league squad probably wouldn't be better off after acquiring him.

I'll be really surprised if ARod is traded. The Yankees are careless with money, but they're not idiots. Great piece by Sheehan (a Yankee fan) at BP about how Torre (manager) and Jeter (captain and saviour) could have halted the ARod bashing in an instant if they'd wanted to, and that their failure to support him is a bigger problem for the team than ARod's poor (only for him) performance this year.

As for Maddux, I'm indifferent. He was for the Dodgers exactly what he was for the Cubs - wildly inconsistent from game to game. Great games more or less alternating with bad games. This is a more popular approach than consistent mediocrity, because the great games delude us into thinking he's still GREG MADDUX, but it's just a different version of a back-of-the-rotation, short-stint starter. I've always enjoyed watching him pitch, so I'd take him over the likes of Tomko or Hendrickson, but 15-15, with a 4.00 ERA seems like a good projection for him, in the rare example of a W-L record that actually reflects pitching performance.

I'm not sure what's considered a "hack" these days, but in exchange for ARod I'd propose some combination of:

Penny/Lowe (plug n play starter)
Betemit/LaRoche (young, cheap 3rd base replacement)
Elbert/Broxton (young pitching)

If I'm the Yankees I don't talk to the Dodgers unless Billingsley is included.

374 - I agree, the combination of Torre's departure and Piniella's arrival make ARod being traded a lot less likely.

I've heard that ARod and Piniella had a pretty good relationship in Seattle (no real basis for that though), and Torre taking the ARod stuff public in SI probably didn't sit too well with Mr. Rodriguez.

376 And even if we knew Billingsley would take a Roy Oswalt career path, we'd have to consider that.

I am not under the impression that the Dodgers have a surplus of pitching waiting to be traded...

If the Yanks are asking too much or he's not available, I'd go for Ramirez from the Cubs. They might be a lot more reasonable to deal with. What do they need (other than everything) that we'd WANT to trade them?

380 - Aramis has a similar opt-out decision to make that JD Drew has this year.

He will most likely either opt-out and become a FA, or renegotiate his contract with Chicago.

Considering the Yankees are wanting Santana, a hot prospect or two (e.g. Kendrick or Wood), and Figgins to play third, the Dodgers are going to need to offer at least Billingsley, Ethier/Loney, and Elbert.

If the Dodgers were to trade Penny who could they get straight up for him,
maybe Hideki Matsui? What would really fit the Dodger needs is a fast, durable, power hitting CF. Can you think of one? Umm.

382
Your basing that on Olney who is no more informed then we are about what the Yankee's want.

I would walk away from a conversation that included Billingsley. I would dangle Ethier, Betamit, Penny and Elbert. If we can pull that trade and also pick up Zito we would send quite a statement to the baseball world. We would be on the same level as the Yankees and Bosox. Our rotation would be....

Zito, Lowe, Billingsley, Kuo, and Maddux.

One good thing going for the Dodgers -- when young guys like Kuo and Billingsley can step in and outpitch the "vaunted veterans" like Tomko, Sele, Hendrickson, and even Penny (injury?), management has to see that getting a marginal vet won't cut it. Surely they see that there's no point getting a starter unless he is already known to be very good?

You have to think that if Penny comes back OK, then Maddux is a fallback option in case the Dodgers can't sign or trade for a top-of-the-rotation starter.

It's a must we get Zito. A more realistic trade could be be Ethier and Penny for Carl Crawford, or Vernon Wells.

384 No, that's been the longstanding offer from lots of media outlets, including the OC Register during the season and Dan Patrick today.

381 So basically we can deal with Aramis as a free agent? Would you rather give Aramis $12M or Nomar $8M? Aramis would in effect plug two holes in our line up. Then a pitcher and a centerfielder and we're done.
Martin
Loney
Kent
Furcal
Aramis
Ethier/Kemp/Repkp
Edmonds/Byrnes/Lofton/Kemp
Drew

383 - That sounds like Vernon Wells, who is available. There's a whole list of reasons to not want him though (prospects to trade, plus having to outbid Texas and Houston for a contract extension).

385 Just on principle, I don't want the Dodgers to trade with the Yankees. They are on the verge of falling apart and will be desperate for pitching. I would hate to be the team that helped them to restock. I would prefer to see them instead crash into the abyss, as everyone refuses to trade with them and they are forced to rely on their weak farm system or whatever free agents they can get.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yankees sign Zito and Schmidt, drop Johnson, keep Mussina, and be back to having a decent rotation.

That's the downside to Vernon Wells. That's why I would prefer Carl Crawford. With him and Furcal at the top of the lineup we would be very fun to watch and we would give the pitcher's nightmares.

If Zito does to NY it will be to the mets not the Yankees.

392 - You saw how well Ned dealt with Tampa Bay when trying to get their scrub players. Imagine when Ned phones looking for their best player in return.

Tampa Bay will end up with Vin Scully and the naming rights to Dodger Stadium.

391 - Not sure even the Yankees could afford to sign Zito and Schmidt, and keep Moose around, and pay someone to take Unit off their hands ($16M in '07).

379 I actually could see where we could have a surplus of pitching. I assume we are going to go after Zito or Schmidt pretty hard. If we land one and we re-sign Maddux (he seems to want to be here and Ned seems to love him) we would have:
Lowe
Penny
Maddux
Zito/Schmidt
Kuo
Billingsley
Tomko?

Especially If we re-sign Gagne and Brazoban is healthy I could see where we could live with trading some pitching.
I would live with Tomko as our #5 if it meant getting A-rod.

Zito wants to stay on the west coast

That's why I think Zito is a must. That will allow us to move Penny for a big bat.

Penny is hurt. Other teams know this, perhaps even more so than the queens of denial in our dugout and front office. Until he shows that he can pitch like an All-Star Game starter again, I don't know why anyone would give up much to acquire him. And if he starts pitching that well again, why we would want to get rid of him...?.

396 Just as an asterisk on my post, I don't think we will re-sign Gagne, unless he just lives to be a Dodger and I don't think that's the case. I still think we could end up with enough relievers and more than enough starters.

397 Yeah, they always say something like that, and then go where the money is highest. If the Yankees want Zito, they will overpay as much as they want until Zito realizes NY won't be all that bad. Remember, they find ways to drop some of the contracts they don't want (Sheffield will likely be gone) and they have a stadium deal that will bring in even more money.

Zito will want too much money for too many years. Frankly, I'm not sure how good he'd be in Dodger Stadium. He walks a ton, doesn't K enough to combat that, and his already healthy homerun rate would figure to jump in Dodger Stadium.

I think he'd be a good pitcher as a Dodger, but for 6yrs/$90M, I want more than "good".

If we can't get Zito that will be a bad start to the offseason.

399 If he is hurt, I don't think it's anything that 5-6 months off won't fix. I say that because he's still throwing 95 mph so it doesn't strike me as a terrible injury.
Losing some weight couldn't hurt.
I don't think we should get rid of him easily. But we might be able to afford to do so if it brings a great return.

402 Totally agree- 151k, 99bb, 27 HR is scary. Although he would look slick in the blue high stirrups a la Penny (and Choi).

I think Colletti has to say he is interested in the possibility of bringing players back like Lofton, Nomar, Gagne and Maddux. Even if he is smart and doesn't really want them back, he has atleast partially covered himself from criticism if he doesn't bring them back. He can now say, I wanted to bring them back but it just didn't work out (for whatever reason/excuse). ESPN analysts are saying the Yankees need to sign BOTH Zito and Schmidt. And they wonder why 99% of the people not living in or born in NY dislike the Yankees or atleast are happy they didn't win the W.S. vr, Xei

Uh isnt the fact that the Yankees rotation is almost purely overpriced FA pickups part of the reason of their recent 'failures'?

407. If they sign all of the overpriced FA pitchers, one of them is bound to do well. :) vr, Xei

Too bad (for them) they are signing them faster than the flameout contracts can expire.

Adding Zito and Schmidt would give them a $75M or so rotation:

Zito
Schmidt
Unit
Moose
Wang
Pavano
Wright

402 and 405. Agreed.
I am not, never have been, and am unlikely ever to become a fan of Barry Zito. He is good, but not very good. He is durable, which makes him more valuable than his talent alone would justify. But there is not a snowball's chance in New Orleans that I'd want to sign him at any more than half what Boras is suggesting.

I just don't get the hype.

Im starting to get paranoid that DT isnt going to help me waste away the majority of my time and work and that Im going to have to find other distractions on the internet for awhile. =(

410 He's the best pitcher in a free agent market that will be short on good starters. Supply and demand. Plus, durability isn't anything to sneeze at.

411 Just a natural slowdown after the weeks and months of constant attention.

On Zito and Schmidt.
Zito will turn 28 in May 2007, he has averaged over 30+ starts every single full year of his career while Schmidt will be 34 when the season starts, he averages between 29-32 starts for the last 4 years. The only thing that worries me about Schmidt, his numbers are so much better at Phone Co. Park than anywhere else. Now he has great numbers in Dodger Stadium so maybe he could become dominant there as well but that is my worry.

402 I think at some point we have to stop equating money with performance, in sports it just doesn't make sense due to how salaries are determined.

If you view things that way, almost everytime a young player is going to be more valuable than a veteran because of artificial controls placed on their salary. But once they are arbitration eligible or become free agents, all of that value will diminish, not necessarily because their skills are any less, it is because it costs more to get the results.

So if the Dodgers get one of the free agents, it may be a deal like the one Ned gave Furcal, lots of money for a small amount of years, so what happens if is something like $50M for 3 years and a team option for Zito, while that is a lot of cash, it not as much as Zito would make for more years but it would lessen the chance of a Kevin Brown/Dreifort situation.

It would also keep with the timetable of the young pitchers on the horizon.

413.

What about Matsuzaka?

414 - I have no problem with big dollars, less years. I thought that was a tremendous approach with Furcal, and can be applied to any other younger free agents. I wonder how Boras would view that strategy?

My problem is almost always lengths of deals. It's so discouraging to be getting nothing from a player, and knowing he's still on the books for another 3 years.

if you use the Hardball Times stats Zito starts to look like a really scary proposition....based on luck factors [hitting with K/BB/HR factored out, and a little fancy stuff with neutralizing park factors] he was the second luckiest of all qualified starters....

412. I was very careful not to say that Barry Zito is bad. Or even mediocre. He's good. But he's not special. If there's no way to improve the team through the FA market without grossly overpaying (even by inflated starter standards) for the Zitos of the world, then don't try. Build through trades or by giving young talent a chance to produce.

417 - Zito shows up on a lot of those types of lists, but somehow has proven to be the exception to the rule. It almost appears that he's been consistently lucky over his whole career.

418 He's special in the pool of available free agents. ;)

I don't mean to direct this to bhsportsguy in particular (or to put words in his mouth), but the idea that bigger-dollars, fewer-years is a better approach to signing FAs is baffling. Sometimes it is, but it bumps up against two principles of investment: (1) the time value of money (it's worth more now that later) and (2) that sunk costs are sunk (dead weight can be jettisoned). How is, say, 3 yrs/$45M smarter for the team than 4 yrs/$52M? It looks $7M cheaper, but it really isn't, and the player need only be worth the discounted value of that $7M, minus the interest saved by paying out $2M less in each of yrs 1-3. When the player is expected to drop off a cliff after 3 yrs, then the 3yr deal is better. But if the decline is expected to be gradual, with yr 4 only marginally less productive than yr 3, then it's not obvious that shorter and more per year is better.

415 He's not been mentioned as a possibility so obviously based on Ned's past dealings, puts that deal on the front burner.

419. Yeah, someone speculated a while back that his curveball might be analogous to a knuckler. Knuckleballers are the exception to the "low BABIP is not a pitching skill" finding. But I'm not sure I believe that Zito's Uncle Charlie is in the same category.

415 IMO Matzuzaka very risky due to tons of innings at very young age...and since, for that matter.

Age 26, arm age probably over 35. If posted by his Japanese club--Bob thinks that's certain--he'll ignite a bidding war and resulting contract of the kind that has not been kind to the Dodgers.

What other major market team (also just drummed out of the playoffs) needs pitching? Who has the deepest pockets and has demonstrated they will pay almost anything for certain free agents? Why bid against NY for a pitcher whose prime may already be past?

He may come here and be the second coming of Clemens or something. But the kind of contract he'll command makes me leery.

Clarification of 421. Instead of "baffling," I should have written "troubling." I understand why Furcal-type deals MIGHT be a better idea in some cases, but I doubt they're generally a better idea.

Another problem with the Furcal-type deal is that if the player maintains his level of performance throughout the contract, you've just hurried the day when you have to give him a raise or lose him to someone who will. If you've got a kid waiting in the wings, great - let someone else pay. But we know how hard it is to project a prospect who is 3 yrs out (if you're giving the Furcal-type player in question a 3-yr deal). When Furcal himself was signed, we were still thinking about Guzman as the SS of the future, weren't we?

Basically, the long-term contract has potential costs and benefits to both sides. Shorter is not always better for the team, especially if it costs more per year.

425 - My opinion is that by the time most players hit free agency, long term contracts are high risk due to the players age. I generally think that less years is better. And in Furcal's case, the less years/more dollars worked since it allows Furcal to hit a 2nd payday while still in his prime.

Also working in LA's favor for this strategy is their ability to consistently attract free agents. LA really should be at least a finalist in every free agent they target.

The best thing about the short-term contracts is not the savings but the flexibility. If a signee becomes a dud, then he's gone sooner due to the experation of his contract, or he's easier to trade.

Speaking of contracts is Penny an FA at the end of '07? Maybe he'll be sharper during a free agent year.

427 - is Penny an FA at the end of '07?

Nope. $7M in '07, $8.5M in '08.

Also interesting is that he has a no-trade clause, except to 5 (apparently undisclosed) teams. I guess it won't be that easy to trade him this offseason.

426. Shorter is not necessarily better than longer even at the same (nominal or discounted) price. When shorter is more expensive per year, then it's even less likely to be better for the team and even more likely to be better for the player.

So what do the Dodgers do with Furcal in 2 yrs. Well, if he starts to decline in ways that the front office can notice, then they're glad to be rid of him. But if he plays like he did this year, Colletti (or his successor) will be sorely tempted to re-sign him, and the shorter contract just becomes a two-stage long-term contract, with each stage costing more than they would have had the original contract with longer with less per year.

427. Right (and this is the last time I beat this dead horse, I promise). Shorter means more flexible in a few years. But more flexibilty is not always best for the team. Because it also gives the player more options and he might become more expensive. That is, after all, the whole point of a multiyear contract. To lock a guy up at today's rates.

And while shorter means more options in a few years, shorter-but-more-expensive also means fewer options now, in the sense of opportunity costs. If there are no budgetary constraints, then that problem goes away, but that's really only true for the Yankees.

>> what do the Dodgers do with Furcal in 2 yrs

Don't be silly- we just slide AROD over to short.

430 - I guess I've got little faith in long term contracts working, period. The shorter the better, since they all end up being a washout by their ends. It's not a matter of wanting a long term deal, moreso it being a necessary concession to get the player you want. If you can get your target guy, but commit fewer years by overpaying annually (w/in reason, of course) you avoid the back-end burning sensation that most long-term deals end in.

But that probably has more to do with who you sign, and not for how long.

424.

Just a question, after that famous 400 pitch in two days thing or whatever, when was the next time he pitched?

Personally, I think if Saito can come here and dominate with less dominating stuff than Matsuzaka has, I think Matsuzaka will be amazing. I mean, look at his career stats:

8.68 K/9, 1.16 WHIP, .66 HR/9, 2.68 K/BB

I mean, sure, he's thrown a lot of complete games, but has only gone over 200 innings once before this year. Personally, I think if we don't pursue him, and he does come over, we'll regret it.

421 Don't worry about addressing anything to me, its cool, this is an open debate. Now, it may be hard to do the Zito contract for less than 5 years but I am wary of that type of contract for any player, let alone a pitcher, even with Zito's health record. Ultimately, 4 years plus a mutual option may be how it turns out, I do think with Schmidt you can do a shorter deal and they do have a relationship already from Ned's years in San Francisco.

It will be interesting if they pursue Soriano and where he would play, he wouldn't be the worse LF (for a year) and then he could move to 2B in 2008.

Upcoming key dates for the Dodgers:
1. 15 days after the completion of the World Series, period where players can file for Free Agent status. (So anytime after 10/26/06-10/30/06 through 11/09/06-11/14/06 or so). Key player(s) to watch for the Dodgers: J.D. Drew, while the others like Nomar, Gagne, Lugo, Lofton and Maddux are all set to test the market, Drew has the player option he can choose and opt out to Free Agency, my hunch is that sometime soon we will hear rumblings about this, no mention of this by Ned so I have to think that he believes Drew is staying.
2. 11/13-11/15/06 GM meetings, with free agency is swing and the 40-man rosters due in a week expect Ned to wait until after the 40 man rosters are due to address signing some of the former Dodgers.
3. 11/19/06 - I don't have a firm date for this event but I do know that right around this time, the Dodgers must submit their 40 man roster and other protected players to MLB in preparation for the Rule V major and minor league drafts. Most of the key guys were already placed on the 40 man earlier this year but there are some like Abreu, Hu and Orenduff that need to be protected while decisions need to be made about Xavier Paul, Dunlap, Alexander and Megrew. Also, at the MLB level, what about Werth?
More to come.

433 Don't know if Bob's around, but he posted some relevant numbers on Matsuzaka and his workload a while back.

I think this deals with the high school marathon you mentioned:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisuke_Matsuzaka

What if, instead of intentionally over paying, he just front loads the contracts. You get all the flexibility of a short term contract on the back end, with the potential bargain of the long term contract.

While talking about pitching, two things more==

1) Does anyone have any idea how the Marlins come up with so many good young pitchers?

2) IMO DJ Houlton could have done as well as a starter this year as a few others did--and much cheaper, for what that's worth. His '05 numbers weren't much if any worse than some the Dodgers had in '06. He finished the AAA year fairly strong.

Yet no one seems to mention him. Is it a done deal that he can't cut it with the Dodgers?

438 I don't think we should have him involved in any sort of long term plan, but if the option is call up Houlton or trade for a Mark Hendrickson-a-like, I'd go with Houlton.

In addition to Houlton, keeping Dessens in the first place (rather than trading for him later) would have reduced the need for hacks like Hamulack, Carter, Tomko, etc.

Isn't Houlton in danger of being left off the 40-man and lost elsewhere?

438 - Smart drafting combined with trading away every piece of a World Champion team in 2003 for very highly rated talent. This is a team that picked up Sergio Mitre and Ricky Nolasco for DT favorite Juan Pierre!

I am sure that I am in the minority with this opinion, but I don't see the need to sign any free agent starter this year. I have disliked Dodger starters for the past few years, but since the second half of this season I see some real reason for optomism. Kuo and Billingsley both have not only great arms, but they look like they have a good idea on the mound how to get hitters out. Penny and Lowe are decent starting pitchers. I don't see why Maddux can't be brought back on a one year contract, with Hendrickson in long relief and available to start if someone goes down. Sign a veteran like the Dodgers did this past year with Sele and place him in triple A. Neither Zito nor Schmidt are needed if Kuo and Billingsley are as major league ready as they look to me.

Stan from Tacoma

As someone looking for a new job I can see how one might be tempted to find an edge to make your resume stand out. However, do not do what this guy did:
http://tinyurl.com/f7bm8

Here is more information on him:

http://tinyurl.com/m7ldx

444
Maybe you should take up poker...

Bob, Sam:

https://bronxbanter.baseballtoaster.com/archives/539992.html#257

I like the thoughts about a possible contract offering a short term contract to Zito, the 3 year idea makes sense. The sad thing in all of these debates and why linking dollars to contracts is not always good, is the reality of the market at the time. Right now good starting pitching is scarce and owners accoring to ESPN are a wash in cash...Whatever the Dodgers do I want to see them find some starting pitching that can go more than 6 innings. Our bullpen I think was better than expected considering what happened, but longer outings from starters mean less of Hendrickson and Dessens. I wonder if Stultz can get a chance? I hope the Dodgers protect Alexander..

As the CEO of Kazoo Enterprise Consulting, I can give him a pass on the fake company. The fake charity is bad news. But plagiarizing a book on the Holocaust is unpardonable. We were warned, though, about, "lying propogandas. . . from Uzbekistan." Oh Borat, when will we ever learn?

http://tinyurl.com/rcy6h

446 -- Thats, well, startling.

so. apparently at the moment it looks like torre's staying in new york. i like the idea of a-rod in LA.

That video is one of the funniest things I have ever seen, and then you realize that it was listed as video evidence of his accomplishments on his resume! What a goof ball.