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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Cardinals-Mets, NLCS Game 4 Chat
2006-10-15 15:27
by Jon Weisman

Mets at Cardinals, 5:05 p.m.

This is the Game 4 I wanted the Dodgers to get - facing Oliver Perez.

Comments (267)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-10-15 15:31:41
1.   Greg Brock
Except that Oliver Perez will probably give up one run in seven innings, with six K's tonight.

Okay, probably not.

2006-10-15 16:01:48
2.   xaphor
So I was watching game one of the 1968 World Series on late last night and it took only until the third inning before it put me to sleep (good on you mate). Unbeknownst to me, McCarver was the catcher for the Cardinals during that series and I was wondering how often it occurs where a professional broadcaster gets an opportunity to cover a repeat World Series match up he took part in as a professional ball player.
2006-10-15 16:21:37
3.   Bluebleeder87
i'm guessing the odds are slim right
2006-10-15 16:36:37
4.   Bluebleeder87
i really hope Steve Lyons gets his job back.
2006-10-15 16:43:53
5.   xaphor
3. I would assume so, although McCarver also played in a Cardinal v. Red Sox series in '67 and (I'm pretty sure) called the same series in '04. The Cardinals won in '67 and lost in '04, where as they lost in '68. Is a victory in the cards (bad pun) for '06? Will Saint Louis continue to balance their record books with McCarver looking on?
2006-10-15 16:54:31
6.   xaphor
4. But Steve Lyons was never in a World Series game. He was traded from the Red Sox to the White Sox before Boston went on to lose to the Mets in '86. And again in 1992, he was released by the Atlanta Braves before they went on to lose to the Blue Jays. So Lyons has no value as a broadcaster to me. :)
2006-10-15 16:56:07
7.   Gagne55
Oliver Perez sucks mightily. Wouldn't it be ironic that after two 100+ win Cardinals teams failed, that an 83 win version could get Pujols his ring?
2006-10-15 16:58:58
8.   xaphor
7. It would give Beane something to be smug about in the off season. :)
2006-10-15 17:00:15
9.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Following Jon's comment, the recent struggles of the Mets make our own exit sting a bit more, especially the Game 1 loss. I don't really "blame" anyone for all the missed opportunities--I just still have a lingering sense of disappointment with this postseason, although I'm pretty optimistic about the franchise in the long view. It probably doesn't help matters that I was at Shea for NLDS game 1, and got to see "The Play" live.


2006-10-15 17:08:21
10.   Bluebleeder87
can somebody find Oliver Perez fastball he lost it about 2 years ago.
2006-10-15 17:11:47
11.   xaphor
9. I'm cheering for a Cardinal victory for the sole reason it would make "The Play" (or the play for Berkley alum) moot. I have no interest in seeing it replayed on all those highlight reels that would unavoidably follow.

I don't feel much of a sting from our exit as it was fully deserved. To beat the Mets we had to play to our capabilities and we didn't hence the Mets were able to get by relatively cheaply. If anything the tables are now turned and the Mets must realize that the level of play that got them past us is not going to bare fruit against the Cardinals.

2006-10-15 17:17:24
12.   Linkmeister
Reporting in from Hawai'i. The quake was about 10 miles off the west coast of the Big Island, 160 miles or so southeast of Oahu; no damage at my place. I wrote it up here:

2006-10-15 17:19:46
13.   Linkmeister
Oh, and thanks for the good thoughts in the previous thread.
2006-10-15 17:21:43
14.   D4P
Encuhnarcion batting cleanup for the Cards...
2006-10-15 17:34:09
15.   Bluebleeder87

gringos i tell ya! ;o)

2006-10-15 17:35:11
16.   das411
Have they given us any stats of the Pujols vs Oliver Perez matchup career yet?
2006-10-15 17:39:15
17.   Marty
Hey Link, glad to hear you were not affected too terribly by the quake. It reminds me that we are probably due for at least a reasonable-sized shaker here in L.A. It's been 12 years plus since the Northridge quake.
2006-10-15 17:39:43
18.   Bluebleeder87
Something tells me Anthony Reyes parents are from Jalisco.
2006-10-15 17:43:01
19.   dzzrtRatt
As I watch the Mets now, I feel a little more disappointed that the Dodgers didn't do better in Round 1. Our pitching was clearly superior, but it didn't show up in Game 1 or Game 3, and in Game 2 it didn't matter because the Mets' one remaining superior pitcher came through with a great game. Given their rotation's injuries, the Mets now don't seem like anything near a playoff team. The Dodgers match up much better against Detroit than either of these NLCS teams.
2006-10-15 17:44:13
20.   Linkmeister
Thanks, Marty. This is the first one I've ever felt on Oahu; we hear about 'em over on the Big Island, but they rarely radiate out this far from the source over there where the volcano is erupting.
2006-10-15 17:45:57
21.   Bluebleeder87
DzzrtRatt's writting reminds me of Manhattan from
2006-10-15 17:47:19
22.   trainwreck
I guess the news that all of Hawaii was going through power outs was wrong.
2006-10-15 18:01:17
23.   Greg Brock
Glad to hear you are safe, Linkmeister. We were all thinking aboutcha.
2006-10-15 18:14:17
24.   Bluebleeder87
there all tide up 2-2

anybody but NY!!

2006-10-15 18:15:56
25.   D4P
Anybody but St. Louis
2006-10-15 18:16:47
26.   Gen3Blue
Ahhh. Encarnation cuckolds Green! Two D's I am glad to be without.
2006-10-15 18:19:06
27.   Linkmeister
22 No, it was accurate. You've heard of rolling blackouts? This is the reverse; they're bringing up parts of the grid in increments. Everything island-wide shut down automatically at 0720 or so this morning. We got our power back at 1320 this afternoon, but there are still a couple of hundred thousand customers without juice.
2006-10-15 18:23:59
28.   Gen3Blue
19 It was mostly a matter of luck. The D's and Mets were about equal, at least w/o Pedro and El Duque. Two of the games could have gone either way. But with that play in the second inning of the first game, the D's lost the moral advantage, and couldn't have won the series in any event.

I have thought about several orgs. I have worked for, and in every case several people on the D's would have been fired immediately. I will think about this.

2006-10-15 18:24:07
29.   trainwreck
Oh ok. Well thankfully you are safe and everything is fine.

Will the Mets and Cards both outscore the Raiders?

2006-10-15 18:32:52
30.   KG16
29 - I totally forgot that the Raiders were playing. To answer your question, yes. But give the way the Raiders are playing, the Dodgers will outscore them today.
2006-10-15 18:34:00
31.   Bluebleeder87

what's a Raiders?

2006-10-15 18:34:59
32.   KG16
31 - they are part of the legend that there use to be pro football in LA. Or so I've heard
2006-10-15 18:35:13
33.   Bluebleeder87
LaRussa is wearing sunglasses at night because he's cool like that.
2006-10-15 18:38:49
34.   trainwreck
We are only down 13 at half. Sadly, that is a moral victory for us.
2006-10-15 18:54:58
35.   Bluebleeder87

it's that bad, wow.

2006-10-15 19:00:57
36.   Bluebleeder87
the little eck that could! DINGER!
2006-10-15 19:03:41
37.   trainwreck
Yeah! We got 3 points.
2006-10-15 19:09:37
38.   Bluebleeder87
Reyes looks over matched at times
2006-10-15 19:13:56
39.   twerp
9 11 19 Over a season many things affect game outcomes.

Just ONE thing resulting in ONE more Dodger win would have meant playing St. Louis in the first round.

Who knows what might have happened then? Yeah, the Dodgers were 0for the season vs. the Cards. So we probably were due....

2006-10-15 19:28:58
40.   Andrew Shimmin
Sarcastic applause from the best fans in baseball?! Impossible!
2006-10-15 19:32:24
41.   Andrew Shimmin
12- Reading your post, I'm very surprised that anything in Hawaii is 160 miles from anything else. It always looks so small on the map inserts. Glad it wasn't too bad for you.
2006-10-15 19:32:51
42.   D4P
And no one's leaving the stadium early, of course...
2006-10-15 19:34:38
43.   Bluebleeder87

still not smoking Andrew?

2006-10-15 19:40:48
44.   Greg Brock
42 At least most Cardinals fans watch The Office.

Which is more than I can say for some people.

2006-10-15 19:46:44
45.   Andrew Shimmin
43- Hmm. I had a minor setback, about a month ago, but I re-quit, I guess.
2006-10-15 19:50:40
46.   D4P
At least most Cardinals fans watch The Office

By "The Office" I assume you mean "Becker"

2006-10-15 19:53:55
47.   Bluebleeder87
that's cool if anything you *re*quit wich is the bottome line right.
2006-10-15 19:54:24
48.   bigcpa
The 10th best secondary avg guy in the majors is available.

"I don't like strikeouts," he said. "I'd give up home runs for (fewer) strikeouts."

We had the 4th fewest K's in the league- 15th in HR- need an OF. I smell a trading partner. Ethier + ____ = Dunn?

2006-10-15 20:03:26
49.   KG16
48 - that's a bad idea. Dunn's strikeout rate is way too high. Seriously, strikeouts are incredibly unproductive outs - at least when you put the ball in play you have the chance to move runs and score runs. A strike out accomplishes nothing.

Trading 30 HRs for 125 Ks (plus more since you're proposing a package) is just not a good idea. Especially when Ethier and Dunn had an identical OBP and were only .013 apart on SLG. Not to mention a .074 difference in batting average.

2006-10-15 20:04:51
50.   trainwreck
Dunn can't play a lick of defense and I doubt he will age very well. He should go to a team in the AL.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-10-15 20:05:07
51.   Bob Timmermann
Greetings from the Northwest Airport Lounge at Narita Airport! My flight doesn't leave for another three hours. Meanwhile I will enjoy the unlimited free Diet Pepsis and copious amounts of crackers.

If I were so inclined, I would just pour the free liquor and get ready for the flight home.

2006-10-15 20:08:41
52.   Bluebleeder87

do you say free liquor!

2006-10-15 20:09:58
53.   adraymond
Yes! Ethier > Dunn
2006-10-15 20:11:22
54.   Bob Timmermann
There is free liquor, free beer, free pretzels, and on the TV you can watch "Free Willy".
2006-10-15 20:12:40
55.   Bluebleeder87
how long would it take me to get there?
2006-10-15 20:14:13
56.   D4P
A strike out accomplishes nothing

I disagree. Striking out requires a minimum of 3 pitches from the pitcher, often more. Guys like Dunn who strike out a lot and walk a lot force the pitcher to throw a lot of pitches, which helps tire the pitcher out faster and helps Dunn's teammates see the pitcher's repertoire. Dunn is routinely among the league leaders in P/PA, and has a career average of 4.24

Seeing a lot of pitches (even if you strike out) may not get a fancy productive out name like "Olney," but it can make a positive contribution nonetheless.

2006-10-15 20:15:06
57.   Greg Brock
Get over the K's. Dunn is an absolute monster, even if you count his below average second half this year.

40 Hr's, 100 walks, right around 100 rbi's, every year.

2006-10-15 20:16:04
58.   Bob Timmermann
You need to be flying Business Class to get in here.

I think I'm the only guy here in a UCLA sweatshirt that's done yeoman duty on this trip and a Team South Africa Cap.

2006-10-15 20:17:35
59.   Bluebleeder87
i'd respectfully pass on Dunn 57
2006-10-15 20:18:31
60.   Greg Brock
59 Respectfully, you're dead wrong, my friend ;)
2006-10-15 20:19:39
61.   Bluebleeder87
you were working out there right Bob.

Go Fighters!!

2006-10-15 20:21:06
62.   Bluebleeder87

if we did get Dunn & his K's i'd be banned from Dodger thoughts for cursing to much.

2006-10-15 20:22:37
63.   Andrew Shimmin
Dunn's 27, right? He ought to have a few more good years in him before the over-fast decline his type of player is prone to. His defense is bad, but his bat still makes him better than Ethier. And, given Krivsky's middle relief fetish, he might not cost that much.
2006-10-15 20:23:13
64.   Greg Brock
62 Yes, but I enjoy getting three runs on two hits and a walk (in an inning), instead of one run on three hits. You know, like every single Dodger inning this year.

The only downside is that Bob might not get to see another run at the LOB record.

2006-10-15 20:26:00
65.   D4P
Two problems. First, Ned has a middle relief fetish of his own. Second, Dunn is the kind of player Ned would probably trade rather than trade for.
2006-10-15 20:27:35
66.   KG16
56 - all plate appearances result in the pitcher throwing more pitches. But the object of the game is to score runs and you don't score runs on a strike out.

57 - the home runs are impressive, sure, but the Dodgers proved this year that you don't need them to win. And while he goes for 40 HRs, 100 BB, and 100 RBIs (a number that is inflated because of his 40 HRs), he's a career .245 hitter and has had more strikeouts than hits every season of his career.

2006-10-15 20:29:14
67.   Greg Brock
66 Nobody cares about batting average. The only thing that matters is how often you get on base. A walk is just as good as a hit, and a home run is much better than a bloop single, which is what the Dodgers lived on this year.
2006-10-15 20:30:22
68.   D4P
you don't score runs on a strike out

Not directly, but long ABs likely have a positive impact on scoring runs later in the game. If you only compare strikeouts to other kinds of outs (e.g. groundouts and flyouts) and conclude that the latter are unambiguously better than the former, without also looking at P/PA, you are likely missing an important aspect of the whole picture.

Taking 10 pitches to strikeout may very well be more "productive" than grounding out on the first pitch.

2006-10-15 20:30:46
69.   Andrew Shimmin
Jeff Kent strikes out plenty and he's definitely declining. Colletti re-signed him. I don't think we know, yet, what a Colletti archetypical hitter looks like. We know what a Colletti pitcher looks like, and it's not too good. But he hasn't gone looking for any big bats, yet.
2006-10-15 20:33:07
70.   Andrew Shimmin
66- You're right that homeruns aren't necessary to win. But it's not like they don't help. Why be anti-homerun, especially when Dodger Stadium suppresses everything but homeruns?

I don't think we should give up too much for him, but if Colletti can use his dumpster diving predilection for good, instead of evil, why not?

2006-10-15 20:33:34
71.   D4P
Cardinal fans: the nadir of "hip" and "edgy"
2006-10-15 20:34:06
72.   bigcpa
Sorry for the drive-by post- I didn't get to defend my point. Here are the top 10 leaders in Secondary Avg:

Man Ram

Most of these characters make $15-19M and/or are 30+. And this is Dunn in an off year. Last year he was 2nd in the majors.

For the strikeout haters- here are the top 10 this year in K's:


Again hardly an unproductive bunch. Howard is only a week younger than Dunn. Did anyone complain about his 181 K's this year?

2006-10-15 20:34:40
73.   Greg Brock
70 I'd be willing to give up quite a bit for a guy that hits 40 home runs, 100 RBI's and 100 BB's. In fact, I'd give up Ethier, Kuo, and another arm (obviously not Kershaw/Billingsley/Morris et. al).
2006-10-15 20:35:23
74.   adraymond
Not so sure about that first part. Say you have two players, both with a .400 OBP, one hits .330 and the other hits .280. While the second walks more, the first gets more hits. And we all know walks are great, but singles are better. Of course, this theory is complicated when the .280 hitter hits a lot of homers.
2006-10-15 20:37:45
75.   Bluebleeder87
i doubt Colletti would make a move like that.
2006-10-15 20:38:09
76.   Andrew Shimmin
73- Yeah, that's not too much. During the A-rod hot stoving we were sending Billingsly, Elbert, and whoever else. That's more than I'd want to give up, even for Dunn. But Ethier, Kuo, and, what, Orenduff, I think I could bite that bullet.
2006-10-15 20:38:45
77.   Greg Brock
74 Yes, but you presuppose that OBP and Avg exist in a vacuum. The fact is that batting average doesn't matter when you hit the ball to the moon and walk a ton.

Unless, you're playing devil's advocate, in which case, you're still wrong, because Dunn mashes.

2006-10-15 20:40:09
78.   KG16
67 - ok, since you don't like BA, how about this, for his career Dunn has struck out 927 times in 2832 ABs (that .327 average), he has a career OBP of .380?
2006-10-15 20:40:58
79.   Greg Brock
74 It's also very tough prove that a guy slapping a single into right field has more value than a guy who takes an eight pitch at bat, walks, and works the starting pitcher out of the game by the sixth inning.
2006-10-15 20:42:41
80.   bigcpa
Dunn 6.5 RC/27
Ethier 6.0 RC/27

Ethier hit .360 on balls in play this year. Dunn hit .278. So this discrepancy would only get wider. In 2005 Dunn put up 7.5 RC/27 sandwiched between Cabrera and Berkman at 16th in the majors. The guy is instant offense. Bat him 5th behind Drew/Kent and let him mash.

2006-10-15 20:43:31
81.   Andrew Shimmin
78- I don't understand your point. Most of what batters do is make outs. You have to prove that strikeouts are so much worse than other sorts of outs, that they negate Dunn's power and patience.
2006-10-15 20:43:59
82.   D4P
I just calculated a simple pearson's r correlation involving Runs Scored and Ks for the 2006 season, and there is no relationship between the two.

In other words, increasing Ks has no effect on runs scored, and decreasing Ks has no effect on runs scored. They appear to be independent of one another.

2006-10-15 20:45:10
83.   adraymond
If the question is, what's better, a single or a walk, a would be surprised to find anyone who answer that it's the latter.
2006-10-15 20:45:29
84.   KG16
70 - I'm not being anti-home run. I'd like to see a Dodger team that could hit more homeruns. I'm just not willing to give up 125 outs (41 innings over the course of the season) for 30 homeruns which might get us 75 runs in the process.
2006-10-15 20:46:53
85.   Bluebleeder87
i always thought he didn't walk all that much so that's a plus.
2006-10-15 20:48:30
86.   bigcpa
For those who love their contact hitters, here is your bottom 10 in K's (RC/27):

Nomar (6.5) - fewest k's
Pierre (4.8)
LoDuca (5.4)
T Walker (5.3)
Eckstein (4.5)
Hatteberg (6.2)
Lofton (5.3)
Johjima (5.2)
Vidro (4.8)
Pujols! (9.9)

2006-10-15 20:48:57
87.   Bluebleeder87
84 I'm just not willing to give up 125 outs

i wouldn't give up some top notch rook pitchers for him.

2006-10-15 20:50:58
88.   Xeifrank
It was nice to see the Mets offense clicking behind former Dodger Paul LoDuca. What would they have done without his 1 for 6 at the top of the order. vr, Xei
2006-10-15 20:53:00
89.   Greg Brock
83 There is no fundamental difference between a walk and a single, unless you factor in the runs scored on hits (which is fine).

You also have to factor in the one swing, three runs that a masher like Dunn provides. I really don't care if somebody thinks a bases empty single is better than a walk. It's not.

2006-10-15 20:53:27
90.   Bluebleeder87

productive outs don't exist to you Xeifank?

2006-10-15 20:54:36
91.   Andrew Shimmin
84- But it's not giving up 125 outs. It's just changing the sort of out. A .380 OBP means he's making fewer outs than most players would, with the same number of ABs.
2006-10-15 20:55:55
92.   Greg Brock
I can't believe that this still needs explaining.
2006-10-15 20:57:11
93.   bigcpa
This year Juan Pierre made 526 outs- the 11th highest single season mark in history. He achieved this with a solid .292 avg. He drew 32 walks in 750 plate appearances. Dunn had 683 pa's, made only 442 outs, walked 112 times while hitting .234. This is why OBP is so underrated. 2 walks and 2 k's is a much better offensive day than 1 single and 3 groundouts.
2006-10-15 20:57:13
94.   adraymond
Ok, yeah, a bases empty single and walk are the same. The only thing that a single does that a walk doesn't is produce the chance for an error. Or at least that's the only thing I can think of.
2006-10-15 20:57:50
95.   Robert Daeley
Are any of these Dunn numbers adjusted for the homerun hitter's paradise that is Great American?
2006-10-15 20:59:06
96.   Greg Brock
The point of batting is to not make an out, not to get a hit. Sure, you can score a run with an Olney, but you score INFINITY runs if everybody walks. And you can score multiple runs with one swing with a home run.
2006-10-15 20:59:55
97.   Greg Brock
Batting average doesn't matter. It just doesn't.
2006-10-15 21:00:06
98.   Bluebleeder87

IMO he's a legit power bat

2006-10-15 21:03:04
99.   Andrew Shimmin
95- That's a good point. His three year, road split is: 242/.371/.489, 110 OPS points south of his home rate. Close to Kent's numbers, this year.
2006-10-15 21:04:34
100.   KG16
91 - sorry, I meant unproductive outs, you're right that it changes the kind of out.

As far as OBP goes, I must admit, I'm still rather new to understanding a lot of the more "non-traditional" stats (I know what they mean) but I don't know what's poor/average/good. Is a career .380 OBP really that good? More importantly, looking at the trend line, Dunn's OBP has been slipping since he became a full time player (his .400 OBP year he only played 116 games instead of the 160 he's averaged the rest of the way).

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-10-15 21:05:58
101.   Greg Brock
99 Dodger Stadium is still a good place to hit home runs (granted, it's not GAB, but it's good). Dunn would, however, suffer by playing the majority of his road games in SF, SD, and AZ. Coors is pretty impossible to gauge.
2006-10-15 21:07:04
102.   bigcpa
In 2005 the Reds led the NL in scoring while leading the league in K's. The Giants were 15th in runs and had the fewest K's in the league.
2006-10-15 21:07:39
103.   KG16
100 - my bad, misread the years on the chart, his .358 OBP season was the year he only played 116 games. But his OBP has been dropping since he became a full time player.
2006-10-15 21:10:04
104.   Steve
I like Dunn generally, but am now concerned about him for the reason given in 95. There is now a lot of reason to believe that things that happen in Cincinnati are no more real than things that happen in Tampa Bay.

By the way, I heard a rumor that only one of the eight teams in the playoffs this year had a park factor over 1.00. No points for guessing which one.

2006-10-15 21:10:26
105.   regfairfield
According to the linear weights system, a strikeout costs your team .287 runs, while a non strikeout out costs the team .250 runs. If a guy strikes out 150 more times than someone else, all other things being equal 5.55 runs, or half a win.

However, if you strike out, you can't ground into a double play, which is far more costly at .839 runs. So, if a guy strikes out 150 less times, but grounds into 10 more double plays (which seems likely) then they've cancelled each other out. So, overall, I'd say both types of outs are about the same in the end.

2006-10-15 21:10:30
106.   Andrew Shimmin
100- .380 is very good. Derek Jeter's is .388; A-Rod's is .386.

Dunn's batting average fluctuates a lot, but his peripherals are pretty strong. This was an off year for him. Could be the beginning of the end, or it could just be an off year.

2006-10-15 21:14:18
107.   Greg Brock
2006 Win shares by NL OF:

#9: J.D. Drew 21 (near his career year)
#10 Adam Dunn 20 (in a down year)

2006-10-15 21:14:31
108.   Andrew Shimmin
Using the Normandin defense rankings (which I trust because regfairfield linked them, the other day), Dunn's a good 14 runs worse a LF than Ethier. So, that's pretty impressive.

Is his 1B defense anywhere near as bad? How bad is Loney's LF?

2006-10-15 21:16:07
109.   Greg Brock
Is there a new defensive metric I'm supposed to believe now?

I hope so.

2006-10-15 21:17:48
110.   Bluebleeder87
If i could choose between Dunn & Soriano i'd pick Soriano.
2006-10-15 21:17:55
111.   KG16
106 - thanks for the reference.
2006-10-15 21:19:09
112.   Bluebleeder87

metric schmetric trust your baseball mojo.

2006-10-15 21:19:24
113.   Steve
There's also the fact that we have a leftfielder.
2006-10-15 21:21:09
114.   regfairfield
As far as Dunn goes, he's a very good buy low candidate.

Using the assumption that BABIP should be .120+line drive percentage, his BABIP should have been .355, not .278. He actually had far more line drives this year, than in years past. If you just assume that those hits would have been singles, Dunn's line improves to .276/.399/.532. Since it's Adam Dunn, there's probably more doubles in there, to improve the slugging.

2006-10-15 21:21:21
115.   Greg Brock
112 I like it.

SABR vs. Metric Schmetric

2006-10-15 21:21:55
116.   regfairfield
108 You should not use that as a basis as to whether or not a metric is trustworthy :).
2006-10-15 21:22:01
117.   Greg Brock
113 We do?

I'm assuming you're talking about Ethier.

2006-10-15 21:22:14
118.   Andrew Shimmin
Soriano K'd 160 times this year.
2006-10-15 21:26:04
119.   bigcpa
2006 Correlations of Total Run Scoring

OPS 87%
SLG 73%
OBP 64%
AVG 45%
2B 25%
K's 0%

So when Krivsky says he wants to trade off power if he can cut down team strikeouts, we should be beating down his door to get some of those .900 OPS, 190 K guys he has for sale.

2006-10-15 21:26:56
120.   regfairfield
119 Interesting that slugging beat out on base.
2006-10-15 21:27:43
121.   Bluebleeder87

but he can steal you a base & has a bullet for an arm

2006-10-15 21:27:44
122.   Andrew Shimmin
111- You're welcome. I didn't know any of this stuff two years ago, and wouldn't have seen any reason to go looking for it, but for this forum. Now 1/3 (7 total) of my search bar plugins are for baseball stats. And I need all of them!
2006-10-15 21:28:38
123.   Steve
The other 14 all go to Dwight Schrute's blog.
2006-10-15 21:29:19
124.   KG16
119 - the difference between Dunn and Ethier this year in OPS was .013.
2006-10-15 21:30:33
125.   Andrew Shimmin
123- 13. What would I do without my Walmart search plugin?
2006-10-15 21:31:24
126.   Greg Brock
I think that we, the DT community, need to reach a consensus on the most important aspects of being a good hitter. My suggestions:

#1 Slugging
#2 OBP
#3 Really cool batting stance
#4 Does he watch "The Office"
#5 Home Runs
#6 Prefers The Godfather to Godfather II
#7 Stolen base %

2006-10-15 21:32:41
127.   Greg Brock
And, yes, percentage of Olney's per game matter.

It ranks at # 53

2006-10-15 21:33:58
128.   D4P
I did this stuff the other day. In a linear regression with Runs Scored as the dependent variable and BA, OBP, and SLG as independent variables, only the coefficients for OBP and SLG and statistically significant, and the standardized coefficient for SLG is higher than for OBP.

In layman's terms, BA has no impact on Runs Scored when OBP and SLG are controlled for. And, SLG has a greater impact on Runs Scored than OBP. The latter is a surprising finding, given Depo's well-known belief that OBP is 3 times more important than SLG...

2006-10-15 21:35:21
129.   KG16
126 - I'm not sure about #4, I'd replace watching the office with batting average (I know you don't like it, but it does tell you how often a guy gets a hit). And I'd say that OBP is more important than slugging.
2006-10-15 21:35:22
130.   Bluebleeder87
#3 Really cool batting stance

looking cool while striking out is Dunn's middle name.

2006-10-15 21:35:39
131.   regfairfield
128 It's not just DePo, it's one of the basic sabermetric tenants that on base percentage is king. Did you run these numbers for any other year? Maybe this one is just a fluke.
2006-10-15 21:35:48
132.   bigcpa
120 Yeah in past years I've seen OBP as high as 85-90% predictive of Runs. Detroit was the team that really threw it off- 24th in OBP, 8th in Runs.
2006-10-15 21:35:48
133.   Andrew Shimmin
Ethier had a great year. Looking back at how excited I got over Jayson Werth, it's funny that I should be so skeptical of Ethier. But, there you go.
2006-10-15 21:37:02
134.   Greg Brock
129 Batting average doesn't matter. Please believe me. I'm a very honest person, and I wouldn't lie to you.

Even if it did matter, it's never more important that watching The Office. Back me up on this, Andrew.

2006-10-15 21:37:59
135.   D4P
No, I only ran them for 2006, and yes, I thought that they might just be a fluke. Or, maybe the game is changing in some respect, and SLG is becoming more important. I don't claim to know the answer...
2006-10-15 21:40:12
136.   Andrew Shimmin
Most of OBP is batting average, which is part of SLG. OBP correlates more closely to RS than IsoP, right? I like it better when other people do the math, so, I'm just going to throw my theory out there. Not, you know, make any attempt to verify it.
2006-10-15 21:41:07
137.   Greg Brock
129 Are you familiar with this article? It's just another argument why batting average is so random.

2006-10-15 21:41:54
138.   Bluebleeder87
mean while Bob Timmermann is in a plane some were in the globe.
2006-10-15 21:45:00
139.   D4P
OBP correlates more closely to RS than IsoP, right?

Pearson's r correlations for 2006, with Runs Scored:

IsoP: .632
OBP: .800

2006-10-15 21:45:13
140.   Andrew Shimmin
134- It's entirely possible that Krivsky would be a more successful GM if he used the The Office Watching Quotient, instead of the system he's using.
2006-10-15 21:46:42
141.   Andrew Shimmin
139- How did OBP jump 16 percentage points? Or am I a moron who can't read?
2006-10-15 21:48:39
142.   D4P
Those are not percentage points, they're correlations. The correlation between IsoP and Runs Scored is .632; the correlation between OBP and Runs Scored is .800.

In other words, there is a stronger correlation between OBP and Runs than IsoP and Runs.

2006-10-15 21:48:51
143.   Bluebleeder87
IsoP: .632
OBP: .800


obp = on base per.

2006-10-15 21:49:07
144.   Andrew Shimmin
Oh, wait, did you reverse the numbers? Did I just prove the exact opposite of my hypothesis? That would be so awesome.
2006-10-15 21:50:45
145.   Andrew Shimmin
142- Wait, so what were the correlation percentages in 119? This is very embarrassing.
2006-10-15 21:51:10
146.   Greg Brock
I think we've found a new metric. The hypothesis reversal formula.

Somebody get Bill James on the phone.

2006-10-15 21:52:39
147.   bigcpa
I think of OBP as the cousin of DIPS. AVG and SLG fluctuate wildly because of balls in play rates. BB/PA recurs tightly year over year. So you get your hands on the 15% walk rate guys and when they hit .300 here or there the OBP/SLG goes through the roof. Like Drew 2004 - .305/.436/.569
2006-10-15 21:53:20
148.   Andrew Shimmin
143- Isolated Power. It's SLG minus batting average. That way you're only looking at the ability to hit for extra bases, instead of that plus batting average.
2006-10-15 21:53:40
149.   D4P
It looks like 119 might be reporting "r-squared," whereas I've been reporting r...

(.8 squared is .64...)

2006-10-15 21:55:08
150.   D4P
Did I just prove the exact opposite of my hypothesis?

No, the numbers support your hypothesis that OBP correlates more strongly with Runs than does IsoP

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-10-15 22:01:24
151.   Andrew Shimmin
149- Ah HA! Yes, I'm that big a moron. 8, 64? These numbers have no relation!

150- I'm still not sure that I'm not cheating, but, close enough.

2006-10-15 22:02:03
152.   Bob Timmermann
If I am on a plane, it is not moving quickly.

I came early to enjoy the comforts of the airport lounge! I've had THREE Diet Pepsis now. I think I may go check to see if they've put any cookies out.

2006-10-15 22:04:01
153.   D4P
Are they Diet cookies...?
2006-10-15 22:05:50
154.   Bob Timmermann
I doubt it. There are something called Oreo Bars available, but I am passing them by.

I have some eel in my carryon luggage.

Mmm... eel.....

2006-10-15 22:07:20
155.   bigcpa
R sq Correlations on Runs:

2002- obp 70% slg 83%, ops 87%
2003- obp 84% slg 90%, ops 95%
2004- obp 77% slg 86%, ops 94%
2005- obp 61% slg 62%, ops 77%
2006- obp 64% slg 73%, ops 87%

So yeah OPS always wins, but as I recall for individuals isoP has much higher predictability year-over-year than isoD.

2006-10-15 22:08:05
156.   D4P
My wife would like eel. She likes all the gross stuff: snails, oysters, liver, squid, etc.
2006-10-15 22:09:52
157.   Bob Timmermann
I could have come home with a bag of dried octopus too, but I decided to exchange my remaining yen. Dried squid also.

They look tasty. They were out of the wasabi potato chips. Now that is some fine eating!

2006-10-15 22:11:56
158.   D4P
And just yesterday, my wife purchased and consumed a bag full of wasabi potato chips. Small world!
2006-10-15 22:16:30
159.   Andrew Shimmin
Huh. So, last year runs really were a matter of heart and grit.
2006-10-15 22:18:34
160.   D4P
Now that is some fine eating!

I'll take my Protein Berry Pizzazz, thank you very much...

2006-10-15 22:22:18
161.   popup
There is a line that Casey Stengel used that would fit Adam Dunn: I dont like those guys who bring in two runs with their bat and give up three with their glove. Why trade for Dunn when you could get the same thing with Saenz in the left field?

Stan from Tacoma

2006-10-15 22:23:40
162.   D4P
I dont like those guys who bring in two runs with their bat and give up three with their glove

If a player like that has ever really existed, he certainly didn't last long in the league.

2006-10-15 22:26:53
163.   trainwreck
I like eel and Adam Dunn's defense would drive me insane. I also would assume that the Reds would want pitching from him. In addition, Ethier was a rookie this season and is dirt cheap.

Also, I demand satisfaction from the Devil Rays. They must give us Carl Crawford.

2006-10-15 22:27:24
164.   trainwreck
*for him
2006-10-15 22:29:48
165.   Gagne55
155 I thought OBP was more valuble than slugging. I guess I was wrong.
2006-10-15 22:34:11
166.   D4P
Yeah, I think we're all a bit surprised by our findings. Maybe Jon can use his connections and get some input from Depo to help clarify this issue...
2006-10-15 22:37:38
167.   Xeifrank
Where are you guys getting your 2006 and historical correlation numbers from. Link?
thanks. vr, Xei
2006-10-15 22:44:24
168.   D4P
I'm getting all my data from ESPN
2006-10-15 22:45:50
169.   Xeifrank
168. Ok, thanks. Could you do me a favor and post the link to the correlation study there?
tiny url format is fine. thanks. vr, Xei
2006-10-15 22:47:22
170.   trainwreck
Can't we get Andrew Jones. He does not have as good on base skills, but he had a better VORP this year and he can play excellent defense.
2006-10-15 22:47:35
171.   trainwreck
2006-10-15 22:48:39
172.   D4P
I'm not sure which correlation study you're talking about. In my case, I'm producing the correlations on my own...
2006-10-15 22:55:32
173.   Steve
So, what you guys are telling me is that water is wet?
2006-10-15 22:55:36
174.   natepurcell
The cost for Dunn makes me lukewarm in acquiring him. I mean if all Krivisky wants is a beimel here and a hendrickson there, then hell yea.

But eh, I use to be the conductor of the dunn train but id rather want a player with more qualities then what Dunn has demonstrated.

2006-10-15 22:55:54
175.   Xeifrank
172. I am talking about the correlations that post #155 shows. I vaguely remember reading that OBP was correlated higher than SLG was in most but not all of the previous seasons, and that a better correlation than OPS which is (OBP+SLG) was some constant factor multiplied by OBP then added to SLG, which in turn meant that OBP was more important than SLG was (but not by alot). That's why I wanted to see the link to the studies being quoted. I'd trust them more than what someone did by hand. :) vr, Xei
2006-10-15 22:57:47
176.   trainwreck
That is exactly what Rob Neyer says.
2006-10-15 22:57:58
177.   Andrew Shimmin
175- Well, they're all what someone did by hand. You're just questioning D4P's hands. Which, considering his t.v. viewing habits, does seem warranted.
2006-10-15 22:58:02
178.   natepurcell
can the postseason end now so that the hot stove season can start?
2006-10-15 22:59:20
179.   D4P
So, what you guys are telling me is that water is wet?

We're telling you that the correlation between water and wet is .923

2006-10-15 23:00:06
180.   natepurcell
who is Bills Thrills here in the fantasy league? I just want to know what the next winning lotto numbers are since you seem to be pyschic (grabbing joe horn off waivers and starting him against me where he scores his first 1td (and 2nd td) in like 17 games constitutes you as a pyschic).
2006-10-15 23:01:02
181.   Greg Brock
177 The correlation between math mistakes and not watching The Office is .735.

Thanks to Regfairfield for the help on that.

2006-10-15 23:01:39
182.   D4P
I'm pretty sure 155 was done "by hand" as well. But I wouldn't mind seeing some studies done by "real" baseball researchers as well...
2006-10-15 23:02:45
183.   Xeifrank
180. haha Nate... I'll pass it along to him.
vr, Xei
2006-10-15 23:02:56
184.   natepurcell
anything with steve carell is worth watching.
2006-10-15 23:03:16
185.   D4P
Watching Danica on "The Wonder Years" gave me all the math acumen a simple boy from Oregon could ever hope for...
2006-10-15 23:04:18
186.   Andrew Shimmin
179- Which is only 85%, once you square it. Water is less likely to produce wetness than OPS is to produce runs!
2006-10-15 23:04:55
187.   Greg Brock
185 Danica is a Bruin.

Although I'm not too sure that the acumen you describe has anything to do with math.

2006-10-15 23:05:59
188.   trainwreck
He was in the remake of Bewitched.
2006-10-15 23:06:47
189.   natepurcell
188- only reinforcing the statement in 184 :)
2006-10-15 23:08:03
190.   trainwreck
Leave it to Hollywood to find a way to make an unfunny film with Colbert, Carrell, and Ferrel.
2006-10-15 23:11:31
191.   trainwreck
Btw, they are going to make Anchorman 2.
2006-10-15 23:13:30
192.   bigcpa
175 Xei I did run those in excel using ESPN data.
This thread presents run correlations over a 42 year period. There you see SLG does correlate higher than OBP as well.

2006-10-15 23:21:00
193.   Greg Brock
191 IMDB, AICN, and CHUD have no mention of an Anchorman sequel.

However, Ferell has said there will be a third movie in his "Idiot" trilogy, which will, undoubtedly be called "Something: The Something of Something."

2006-10-15 23:23:58
194.   trainwreck
In an interview with IGN he said he was going to make it and most likely he would do it after he is done with his next film. His idea is to put Ron in a foreign land.

2006-10-15 23:25:41
195.   natepurcell

anchorman was good, the nascar wasnt that funny.

2006-10-15 23:26:35
196.   trainwreck
Yeah, Talladega Nights was dissapointing.
2006-10-15 23:33:03
197.   bigcpa
My company has a Will Ferrell/ John C. Reilly comedy in development for next year called STEP BROTHERS. They're both single and living in their parents' basements. Their parents marry and hijinks ensues.
2006-10-15 23:34:32
198.   Xeifrank
192. Thanks. So, OBP*1.8 + SLG has the highest correlation of the stats presented in that study to runs scored. That's pretty much exactly what I remembered reading.
vr, Xei
2006-10-15 23:35:45
199.   Xeifrank
TV/Movies talk... TV Toaster??
vr, Xei
2006-10-15 23:38:23
200.   Greg Brock
199 Sorry, Xeifrank, DT is a baseball/movie/television zone.

Jon has told you this before. Your pleas go unanswered.

197 John C. Reilly was the original Champ Kind in Anchorman, but had prior commitments.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-10-15 23:49:01
201.   Xeifrank
200. *Jon Weisman's outlet for dealing psychologically with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.*
I believe there is a
Why not give it a boost and post your TV and Movie thoughts there?? vr, Xei
2006-10-15 23:51:37
202.   bigcpa
200 Yeah man, are you Greg Brock or Greg Brady?
2006-10-15 23:58:05
203.   Greg Brock
I will not be bullied. The Philosopher King has spoken, and TV talk is neither discouraged or verboten at DT.
2006-10-16 00:09:23
204.   bigcpa
I suggest you two exchange email addresses and settle this by duel.
2006-10-16 00:16:55
205.   xaphor
All I know is that correlating OBP to Runs is like correlating SLG to former Wolves striker Steve Bull.
2006-10-16 00:18:39
206.   Greg Brock
2006-10-16 00:28:57
207.   Greg Brock
Society begins and ends with xeifrank. When Thucictholous said 'people only know one thing' 1 he shead new light on xeifrank, allowing man to take it by the hand and understand its momentum. Much has been said about the influence of the media on xeifrank. Observers claim it is crunchy on the outside but soft in the middle.

Special care must be taken when analysing such a delicate subject. On the other hand anyone that disagrees with me is an idiot. If society has a favourite child, it is xeifrank.

Economic Factors

Derived from 'oikonomikos,' which means skilled in household management, the word economics is synonymous with xeifrank. We will primarily be focusing on the JTB-Guide-Dog model, a classic economic system of analysis.


Indisputably there is a link. How can this be explained? Even a child could work out that the average wage is in financial terms 'holding hands with xeifrank.' In the light of this free trade must be examined.

Political Factors

Politics - smolitics! Comparing the general view of politics held by the poor of the west with those of the east can be like comparing the two, equally popular approaches to xeifrank. If the reader is unaware of these, they need only to turn on the television, or pick up a newspaper or popular magazine.

To quote style icon Odysseus Lionel Forbes Dickinson 'People in glass houses shouldn't through parties.' 2 Considered by many to be one of the 'Founding Fathers' of xeifrank, his words cannot be over-looked. Both spectacular failure and unequaled political accomplishment may be accredited to xeifrank.
Where do we go from here? Only time will tell.


How much responsibility lies with xeifrank? We can say that xeifrank has, and will continue to be a major building block for the world in which we live. It fills a hole, 'literally' plants seeds for harvest,, though xeifrank brings with it obvious difficulties, it is truly xeifrank.

As a parting shot here are the words of super-star Demi Schwarzenegger: 'I love xeifrank? Yes! Hurray for xeifrank!'

2006-10-16 00:33:02
208.   Greg Brock
By the by, Studio 60 seems to be headed for the gallows.

One season...Ouch, Mr. Sorkin.

2006-10-16 03:35:40
209.   xaphor
I am shocked DT didn't hold a celebration for this Dodger tradition which turned 25 yesterday.

2006-10-16 08:19:54
210.   Marty
Check out the Times' Calendar section story on the competing bids for building a park on the old "corn field" section next to Chinatown. On of the bids, from Thom Mayne, incorporates a new Dodger Stadium. I doubt the new stadium idea is going anywhere, but it's intersting to think about. I've come around to the idea that a new stadium would be nice, especially if it's easier to get into and out of.
2006-10-16 09:07:07
211.   Bluebleeder87
the parking nightmare at Dodger Stadium is really bad, but i'm use to it.
2006-10-16 09:30:37
212.   Improbable88

Furthermore, do any of you guys ever park on Stadium Way outside of the Stadium? The walk is comparable to ones you might make from poorer spots in the lot and the downhill walk past all the traffic is invigorating to the tune of $10.

2006-10-16 10:04:13
213.   Bluebleeder87

you don't pay anything if you park outside Dodger stadium.

2006-10-16 10:18:54
214.   Improbable88
212 - Precisely! Hence the saved (and musical) $10.
2006-10-16 11:23:02
215.   Xeifrank
is Bob back? Did anyone go greet him at the airport with a case of diet pepsi?
vr, Xei
2006-10-16 11:44:09
216.   underdog
180 Nate, belated reaction - but re: Joe Horn, I think Bills was just following a good solid fantasy football plan, which is: if Underdog cuts a player who has done jack diddly all season, pick him up. Because he will then immediately produce.

Freakin' Joe Horn... grumble... mumble... Oh well, I take consolation in knowing that they have a bye next week so he wouldn't have helped then anyway, and will just as likely revert to his near-slumbering state again soon.

2006-10-16 11:44:20
217.   Bob Timmermann
Nobody gave me Diet Pepsi when I got to the airport!
2006-10-16 11:48:25
218.   D4P
Nobody gave me Diet Pepsi when I got to the airport!

Chalk up another one for the terrorists...

2006-10-16 11:51:26
219.   Bob Timmermann
When you go through airport security in Japan you don't have to take your laptop out of its case. Nor do you have to take off your shoes or belt or any of that other stuff.
2006-10-16 11:52:15
220.   D4P
Argh...I hate their freedom...
2006-10-16 11:57:46
221.   njr
Interesting article in the times and an unlikely but proposed move of Dodger stadium:

2006-10-16 13:13:50
222.   Xeifrank
With Dusty Baker now out there and available, I sure am glad the Dodgers already have a manager this offseason. The grass may be greener on the other side sometimes, but in this case there is a big bottle of roundup looking for a lawn to kill.
vr, Xei
2006-10-16 13:34:36
223.   capdodger
Argh...I hate their freedom...*

Aye... Let us destroy them.

2006-10-16 14:03:04
224.   franklin
Been awhile since I posted---new state, new job, etc.--looks like DT continues to grow.

Has this news made it to DT yet? -- Steve Henson (LA Times) reported that Marc DelPiano (Boston, Florida) and DeJon Watson (Cleveland, Cincinnati) have been interviewed for the job as Dodgers farm director, industry sources said, joining internal candidates John Shoemaker and Chris Haydock.

With the success that Shoemaker has had as a coach, I wouldn't mind seeing him stay in that capacity with an eye on the LA helm in 5+ years.

2006-10-16 15:14:28
225.   Improbable88
224 - That's an intesting point about Shoemaker eventually becoming manager of the big league club.

I guess that's the way it probably should, and used to, go with most teams. It would make even greater sense if Grady can't get that Billz, Martin, Loney, Kemp, LaRoche group over the hump and Shoemaker comes in and rallies them to another title, however more prestigious.

2006-10-16 15:41:22
226.   underdog
Brad Penny would probably prefer the Dodgers hire Willie Shoemaker, though.
2006-10-16 17:59:38
227.   D4P
Worst. Posting. Day. Ever.
2006-10-16 18:10:32
228.   bigcpa
Here's a live look-in at Busch Stadium:


2006-10-16 18:14:45
229.   trainwreck
Yahoo a few days ago claimed Schmidt is our number 1 target in the off-season.
2006-10-16 18:19:15
230.   D4P
I heard a rumor that Yahoo made that claim right after the Twins picked up Torii Hunter's option...
2006-10-16 18:28:32
231.   trainwreck
How long you will be haunted by mentioning Torii Hunter?

I don't think Steve will ever let you forget.

2006-10-16 18:33:50
232.   D4P
I don't think Steve will ever let you forget

Yeah, I heard a rumor to that effect...

2006-10-16 18:45:27
233.   popup
Just a heads up for everyone: PBS this week has an hour show about the 1955 World Series called the 7 days of Fall. It is on at 9pm on Thursday in Seattle; not sure of the time and day for the program in LA.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-10-16 18:53:12
234.   underdog
Is it just me or is the quality of offensive play in the NFL this year just generally... offensive? Or are the defenses just that much better?

Oh, speaking of rumors, I heard that Yahoo says that Google says that MSN reported that the Dodgers reported that they might sign a free agent in the off season. No word yet on whether that free agent will be overpriced or not.

2006-10-16 18:54:10
235.   underdog
Also, was three blathering announcers in the MNF booth not enough? They added Charles Barkley for awhile tonight for some reason to make it 4 blathering announcers.
2006-10-16 18:55:12
236.   trainwreck
Anything to give Theisman less opportunity to speak.
2006-10-16 19:02:17
237.   underdog
236 Tough call, Barkley vs. Theismann, but you're right, I'd take Gnarls, I mean Charles.
2006-10-16 19:16:39
238.   trainwreck
Juan Uribe has an arrest warrant issued for him in connection with the shooting of two people in the Dominican Republic.

I guess the White Sox will be looking for a new SS. Bring on the A-Rod rumors.

2006-10-16 19:26:56
239.   Robert Daeley
238 They can compete with the other Sox for Julio Lugo's services. ;)
2006-10-16 19:37:16
240.   underdog
Yeah, I was going to say! Couldn't we offer them a SS for a pitcher? (Hee)
2006-10-16 19:49:26
241.   trainwreck
This cannot be good.

2006-10-16 19:57:06
242.   D4P
The first sentence says it all:

Mike Tyson said fans should not expect much of a fight when he steps back into the ring

The fact that he will make millions doing this is beyond ridiculous.

2006-10-16 21:13:43
243.   D4P
I guess the White Sox will be looking for a new SS. Bring on the A-Rod rumors

Wrong Chicago team...

2006-10-16 21:16:36
244.   trainwreck
Yeah, I saw that. I do not think the Cubs have enough to offer the Yankees. I doubt the Yanks want all prospects that are not ready for the majors.
2006-10-16 21:21:42
245.   D4P
Zambrano and Ramirez might be enough. Course, that would be a bad trade for the Cubs...
2006-10-16 21:39:41
246.   Xeifrank
I was just wondering out loud if with the rain out tonight, would the Cardinals bring back Carpenter to pitch in game #5 instead of game #6. It would be the same amount of rest he was slated to get before the rainout occurred. Start Carpenter in Game #5, then Weaver in Game #6, then you could probably pitch Carpenter 3 or 4 innings in relief if there was a Game #7. By starting him in Game #6, you've pretty much eliminated from any significant pitching time in a possible Game #7. vr, Xei
2006-10-16 21:42:09
247.   Xeifrank
246. not quite the same amount of rest, but still doable. vr, Xei
2006-10-16 21:52:14
248.   das411
!!!!! Separated at birth?


2006-10-16 21:53:48
249.   D4P
I am the Great Cornholio! I need TP for my bunghole!
2006-10-16 22:03:45
250.   LAT
A lot of people here follow the A's much more closely than I do. Can someone provide a legitimate explanation for Macha's firing? Obviously everyone knows about last season's strangeness but was there a particular incident this year of which I am not aware? Did he not follow Bean's orders? His managerial record is pretty good. He has been with the A's a long time. I understood it last year when they missed the playoffs and granted they were embarrassed in the ALCS, but if not getting to the WS is grounds for firing I guess there should be 28 vacancies. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Cubs reportedly pay Lou $10 million for three years. That's $10 M too much and three years too long. His track record without A-Rod, the Big Unit and Jr. is suspect. I guess the Cubs wanted to make a splash but wouldn't that money be better spent on someone who actually picks up a bat and is not a screaming lunatic?

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-10-16 22:04:54
251.   trainwreck
Kotsay among other A's had problems with him. Basically Macha did not talk to anyone and that bothered a lot of people.
2006-10-16 22:05:52
252.   D4P
I can't fathom a manager being worth $3 million a year. Make the lineup, make a few pitching changes, and send in a few pinch-hitters. Big deal.
2006-10-16 22:30:18
253.   LAT
I just read Catfish Stew. That provides al lot more light. Sounds like a players revolt which is a legit reason to let him go. Never read Phillip Michaels before. Funny stuff-especially in the comments.

252. I agree. The manager in baseball really doesn't do all that much. Not like there are a lot of plays or formations to figure out. I would be really pissed if Frank spent $3M on a manager becasue that's money that could have been used to fuel the ten-thousandth Adam Dunn debate.

2006-10-16 22:50:44
254.   D4P
ten-thousandth Adam Dunn debate

Are we stuck on 9,999...?

2006-10-16 23:02:01
255.   Robert Daeley
Looks like Steve Lyons will be back with the Dodgers at least:

2006-10-16 23:07:41
256.   LAT
I'm setting the over/under on 10,000th by halloween.
2006-10-16 23:12:53
257.   trainwreck
I wish we had Guzman as trade bait. I do not want to trade any of our good prospects/rookies/ young guys right now. I doubt Abreu or Hu have much value. I would only want to trade Ethier or Betemit.
2006-10-16 23:26:30
258.   D4P
I wish we had Guzman as trade bait

I bet Ned does too, though he'd never admit it

2006-10-17 00:16:37
259.   xaphor
Piniella to pursue A-Rod

What the deuce? Am I still reading the footy tabloids? I suppose if Piniella is going to do the GM's job as well he might be worth the 3 million per.

2006-10-17 03:05:57
260.   xaphor
For anyone that likes maps, check out this dandy complete with daily updated NASA images.
Links to the Dodger Stadium/Cornfield site mentioned in the LAT.

2006-10-17 06:44:15
261.   Bumsrap
245 Ramirez and Zambrano, skill wise, would make the Yankees all too happy I would think. It is their thinking that would drive George crazy.

Would AROD play ss for the Cubs? If so, who would play 3b?

I think Betemit would be a good choice for the Cubs at third.

Betemit and Penny for Rich Hill.

2006-10-17 07:47:20
262.   Steve
Apparently, God mocks us.
2006-10-17 07:54:55
263.   50 years a Dodger Fan
A three way:
Cubs to Yankees: Ramirez and Zambrano
Yankees to Dodgers: A-rod and some salary
Dodgers to Cubs: Betemit and Penny and the usual suspects offered as throw-ins. (Throw-aways is more like it)
2006-10-17 08:18:12
264.   Vishal
...and why wouldn't the cubs just grab a-rod?
2006-10-17 08:37:36
265.   bonnie
255 Lyons will have to complete "diversity training". I hope the Nats send Bill Singer to the class. They've just hired him as a scout in Asia.

2006-10-17 08:39:16
266.   Bob Timmermann
Saito tells Japanese reporters that he's inclined to return to L.A.

'Right now, I'm still trying to determine how I feel,'' Saito
said. ''I'm excited about a new feeling of winning and experiencing a
different kind of joy.''

Saito referred to fulfilling his dream of playing in the major
leagues, saying, ''The majors have provided me with a stage where I
can play baseball with passion.''

2006-10-17 09:30:09
267.   underdog
Keep in mind that the ARod to the Cubs rumors started because of Pinella. Lou has a great relationship with ARod, a good previous history, and they might be happy together again. The Yanks have said they aren't trading ARod, ARod says he wants to come back, so at this point it's just a rumor floating around out there, but if it does become a possibility, it would be ARod going to Lou's Cubs and not elsewhere in a 3-way. I'm still dubious though.

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