Yipee

If forced to choose, would people rather have Matthews for 5 years at 50 million or the deal we gave to Juan?

2. is that an inclusive or exclusive OR?
vr, Xei

Do you think it's a coincidence that the Dodgers are revamping their training department and it two days for Pierre to complete his exam?

Pierre...his production is consistent plus he's younger. Although I'm not happy with the contract.

2 I would rather have Juan...but keep in mind I would rather have Repko or Lofton starting in CF over Pierre...or anyone really. At least Pierre is a type B free agent, so we dont lose a 1st rounder. Plus I think in 3 years Matthews will no longer be a Cf but a below average corner.

I don't think trainers give physicals, do they? I would think doctors would.

Trainers dont give physicals

Any ideas on why it took so long to officially announce the signing?

3
exclusive

9 - Things take time. I don't think there's any undercurrent here. The story leaked before the physical and/or before the contracts were prepared, Pierre perhaps needed a day to get to Los Angeles, etc. It's of no moment.

This was a reaction to J.D. Drew opting out and Soriano going for his big contract.

Ned was never going to with the outfield he had currently constructed nor did he want another stop gap like Lofton because next year's market may have less available.

We will never know if Drew remained, would Nomar and Pierre be Dodgers today but Ned now has 2 players who apparently want to play here versus one talented if exasperating player who decided to go for the money.

9 Maybe Ned had second thoughts about giving a type B free agent who scored lower on the Elias
Rankings than Ryan Church 9 million dollers a year.

12 - Pierre & Nomar didn't "go for the money"?

12. Pierre went for the money too. I haven't heard anything about Drew not wanting to be here, perhaps I missed that. I just assUmed that Drew (rightfully) thought he could do better than 3 years $33mil and that he would be open to the Dodgers matching the best offer.
vr, Xei

Did anyone see this?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2669360

Tellement longtemps et bon débarras M. gagne!

by the way, the little blurb is near the bottom.

I can't believe that we couldn't trade something, anything, for a better player than Juan Pierre.

This is mind boggling. 45 million dollars for this guy. Joke.

But think about it this way. The only apparent defensible criteria for this signing is:

1) he's a good man
2) he's got a good attitude
3) he's willing to play every day
4) he "wants" to play here (really, twist his arm)

Brock, you're going to be a millionaire. So what's the problem?

19 I can walk more than Juan Pierre.

19
They have not seen Greg during a UCLA football game.

As I try to come to terms with Pierre & the Dodgers coming to terms, I have a question regarding the use of stats. With commentors like Xeifrank stating that empirical evidence shows Pierre is terrible, stolen bases mean squat, and speed at the top actually distracts a hitter, can an argument be made that the construction of a lineup has an impact on this?

I would think that the effect of stolen bases is based on its average value, i.e. a bad base stealer running in front of a strikeout king like Adam Dunn where a CS negates his power and a SO could result in a DP, taken into consideration with a good base stealer in front of a high-average contact hitter. I wonder if, in the case of the Dodgers, a Furcal/Pierre/Garciaparra lineup maximizes the value of speed because Pierre and Nomar hardly SO and make a lot of contact. The Furcal/Lofton/Garciaparra signings last year were widely criticized yet yielded a very productive offense. At any rate, are there any studies that look at specific offensive strategies?

Also, it's a bit irksome to keep hearing about Pierre's subpar on-base ability when his career OBP is .350. Shouldn't this be taken into consideration, along with last year's .330? Often stated here is the belief that different people value different stats, but stats vary depending on how you break them down.

I'm not exactly thrilled with this signing, but if there is a silver lining, it's the avatar Slappy McPutout. I may even consider Pierre my favorite player because I cannot say this without laughing. That, and I'm a masochist.

Barry Zito is going to be offered a brazillion dollars.

Zito to the Orioles: 7 years, 44 brazillion dollars, and San Tropez

I think we learned that your best hitter should be in the number 2 spot, so regardless of all that other stuff Pierre should not be hitting 2nd.

21
I fear that Greg Brock sits two rows in front of me at the Rose Bowl and wears a UCLA visor and throws it down in disgust Steve Spurrier-style several times a game.

I judge the progress of the game by counting the visor tosses by that one fan.

Really, are we going to lose the NL West for the next 5 years because Juan Pierre is playing.

I don't begrudge anyone for going for the money and my comment did not imply that Nomar nor Juan signed for less than what they wanted to play in L.A.

Right now, the only parts that I would ask for from the Dodgers would Chad, Kemp, LaRoche, maybe Loney and Elbert.

Would you trade those guys for any outfielder similar to Pierre. No one is taking Abreu, Hu, Meloan or guys like that for established MLB players.

Pierre cost the Dodgers some money (which I just don't think is an issue), no draft picks and a 25-man roster spot for the next 5 years.

He is the anti-Drew, anti-Bradley, no injuries, no outside issues but lacking big time in many of their skills. But Ned has decided that for him and the club those first 2 things outweigh that kind of talent. We will have to see how it comes out.

25 I'm a very polite person at games. I hate people who ruin other people's experiences. My only action at sporting events is catching and popping beach balls.

At home...not so much.

Booo!

26- No, that'll be because Carlos Quentin, Justin Upton, Stephen Drew, Conor Jackson, and Brandon Webb. Pierre will just be the salt in the wounds.

29, reattempted:

Really, are we going to lose the NL West for the next 5 years because Juan Pierre is playing[?]

No, that'll be because Carlos Quentin, Justin Upton, Stephen Drew, Conor Jackson, and Brandon Webb are playing. Pierre will just be the salt in the wounds.

27
I thought you would be the guy wearing 5 dump dorrel t-shirts. Wrapping them around your arms and such.

He's the anti Drew

And that's good because why again?

27

So you weren't the guy who kept screaming to install Matt Ware at QB and have UCLA run the option?

An option offense in football is the equivalent of a stolen base dependent offense in baseball.

Great Insider blog entry by Keith Law:
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2670934&name=law_keith

Highlight:
"It's made all the worse by its combined ripple effect with the decision to re-up Nomar Garciaparra for two years, leaving just two lineup spots (left and right field) for Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp and James Loney... All three of these players are likely to outproduce Pierre right now given the same kind of playing time, and their combined salaries will barely top 10 percent of what Pierre himself will make this year. We've seen some surprisingly high deals so far this offseason, but this is the first one that's certifiable."

If everyone concedes that winning the west will have nothing to do with Juan Pierre, I will be happy to concede its antithesis.

30
Chris Young, Carlos Gonzalez, Garret Mock, Dustin Nippert, Alberto Callaspo, Micah Owings, Matt Torra, Max Scherzer...

Wait till they start trading players for pitching.

Today's Wall Street Journal carried a story comparing the midterm election projections of the top polling outfits.
http://tinyurl.com/ykysca
I mention this, because it would be both enlightening and fun to re-read our predictions over past moves made by the Dodgers...
And then I discover the Toaster does not archive past comments. (sigh)
So, I'm left with a link to a thread where Jon and Jay Jaffe discuss, among other topics, the signing of Derek Lowe.
https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/17097.html

35 eagerly agreed

Furcal career OBP-.351
Pierre career OBP-.351

Interesting

24

I thought it was believed by sabermetricians that batting order doesn't matter. I believe I've heard Jon mention that here, but maybe I missed a revision to that theory.

38 - then you will further agree to the same stipulation regarding each player on the roster, I assume.

I would bet my cat's tail that Pierre is benched and traded before the end of the second year of his contract.

39 Trends tell a different tale. Look at the last two years.

Also, OPS is not close.

41 not so much...I would think a pitcher in a starting rotation has a much higher potential impact on his team than a position player. Perhaps middle relievers excluding specialists.

39 yeah, the thing is his last two years are both down years that come after what usually is the end of a player's prime. Add in that speed doesn't usually last forever and you can make a case for bad, bad things in Pierre's future.

So Juan Pierre is a 45 million dollar middle reliever?

45 LOL , literally

Interesting post over at ITD.

Like I've said before, I think Rawitch does a good job with a company blog, so I'm not in the business of criticizing him.

I'll just say I could have a good time picking that blog entry apart.

Over at ITD:
I think that you have to look at each free agent market separately and not compare them from year to year.
Bingo.
Two off-seasons ago, giving Derek Lowe a deal with $36MM over four years was immediately judged as folly. But now, it looks fairly decent.

with = worth

47
Once again I say. Just because other GMs are jumping off a bridge, does that mean we should join them?

Dodgers.com likes to make us worried about trading prospects.

43-one, I think it is a little unfair to measure Furcal's OPS to Pierre. Pierre couldn't hit a homerun in t-ball let alone the majors. Plus if you look at both players numbers they fluctuate over the course of their careers. Even Furcals.

This isn't the worst signing ever. Pierre does have certain upsides. Hell, Pierre has collected over 200 hits in a season four times, something Furcal never has done. He also might not walk alot but he doesn't strikeout alot either, unlike Furcal. Isn't a hit just as good as a walk?

Just because other GMs are jumping off a bridge, does that mean we should join them?
Problem is, you may be the most fiscally responsible GM in the game, but if your peers blow out the market you've got no choice but to follow if you want to sign a FA.

52
True, but he led the league in hits and still only had an OBP of .330.

53
Yeah, but if the market is crazy only try to sign good players or bargains. I do not think Pierre is either.

52 Well if comparing stats is unfair, then yes, it is unfair.

Again, using counting stats like hits is not something I'm interested in. The point of baseball is to not make an out. How often (as in %) do you fail to make an out.

If you get 200 hits in 750 plate appearances, it's not particularly impressive.

Aramis Ramirez's contract is probably the only one I would think about doing. Every other contract so far, I would never have given out.

As others have mentioned, it's 45 million dollars for a guy with the 130th best on base percentage out of 160 qualifiers.

Since I'm pretty sure this entire debate has run it's course, I'll try to make this my last say on the matter.

I'll try...

I've always thought, if you're a GM, it's better to make the first move on the FA market. Set the market, rather than react to it.

Georgia Tech will pay for this!

its course, not it's.

Juan Pierre put that apostrophe in there.

Juan Pierre sentenced Jesus to death on a crucifix.

56-you make a strong and correct point, I just think (please oh god hope) Pierre will improve his numbers from last year and form a strong top of the order lineup. I do wish we didn't pay so much for him.

Rawitch has now officially given up and is reverting to analyst-speak. Hate to see that. Well, maybe the next one will be defensible. Its happened.

63 We all hope, Giant Hater.

We all hope.

58 Just think of it as if Loney, Ethier, and Martin all got raises to $2mil and we signed Pierre for $3mil.

Loney, Ethier, and Martin are going to be cheap for a long time...long enough to minimize the impact of one or 2 bad contracts. It is inefficient for sure, but maybe better than forking over young talent for an established MLB bat with power in this sellers market.

Unfortunately, Ned never just bagged all the prospects he didn't like and offer them for just ONE of the D-Rays outfielders...that would have been nice.

lead in to Keith Law's evaluation of the signing:

"The early contender for the worst contract of the offseason has to be the five-year deal just handed to Juan Pierre by the Los Angeles Dodgers..."

I find I'm so excited, I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it's the excitement only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend, and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope.

I hope Juan Pierre becomes somebody else...

Juan Pierre becomes... Juan Castro.

68 LOL
he won't but it will be o.k.
I bet he gets batted #2
as others have posted that probably maximizes his ability to get out (assuming no improvement in obp) semi productively without GIDP'ing.

On the bright side guys. If we sign Barry Bonds, Juan Pierre and Furcal should be fast enough to catch all his fly balls for him.

I happen to think the work Josh does on Inside the Dodgers is nothing less than remarkable, considering the constraints he is under.

Independent of that, in some respects, it may be that Josh takes something akin to a CanuckDodger point of view. Josh can use stats to be critical - witness how he puts down Gary Matthews in his latest post over there - but in addition to the fact that he couldn't possibly openly criticize a Dodger transaction, he does not want evaluations to be confined by stats. (By the way, neither do I. As I keep saying, it's all about emphasis.)

Now, you can disagree with some or all of Josh's approach, of course. But in the end, Josh is a very open-minded person, and his posts are wonderfully thoughtful on a blog that could just as easily have been devoted to rewritten press releases.

72 I agree with you, Jon. I hope I made that clear before.

we wants the lineup, my preciouuuus...
gollum!

73 - I know you did. I was just underscoring it ...

22. haha, I didn't say "Pierre is terrible", I think the "contract is terrible".

X. I don't agree with those who are putting such great value on stolen bases. Sure speed is great, when used properly. But making outs is the worst thing you can do as a hitter. Pierre makes a ton of outs. Pierre gets alot of hits. Yes, but they are singles. Well, he can steal 2nd base. Yes, and he can also get thrown out... and it's too bad he can't steal 1st base because he is only getting there 34% of the time. Stolen bases has a negative (0.02) correlation to runs scored. This is not something I made up, people 6 1/2 times smarter than me sat down and ran the numbers. The numbers don't lie. If the numbers are wrong then I would hope someone would present evidence showing that they are. As far as batting lineup construction goes. Yes, you can improve run production very slightly with lineup construction. TangoTiger has a nice writeup on this. We are talking about fractions of runs per game and a few runs per season. Also for every slot a player hits down in the lineup, over a 162 game season that player gets 18 less plate appearances. If Juan Pierre were to bat leadoff and Jeff Kent were to hit 4th, then you would be giving Juan Pierre a statistically inferior player 54 more plate appearances. If you hit Pierre 8th you would be giving him 72 less plate appearances. I'm not saying Kent should leadoff or that the order makes a huge difference, just that there are some minor advantages to how you construct your lineup, those of which I am not an expert at, but I love studying it through readings, questions and simulations. vr, Xei

He even used the phrase "who's to say." Ye Gods.

we wants the lineup, my preciouuuus...
gollum!

78 grrr sorry for the double post

Hey Canuck, if you're out there in Canadia Land, I wanted to answer your X-Files question over at Toaster.tv, as to not incur the wrath of Xeifrank.

I'll put it in the Veronica Mars post. Robert Altman deserves better.

30 minute separation on a double post.

Impressive!

76

I'm having trouble finding a study regarding lineups on TangoTiger. If you could provide a link, cool; otherwise, I'll keep looking.

I did find this interesting though:

"There's something obvious missing from this analysis -- the benefit of aggressive base running. If a team takes a lot of risks on the basepaths, they'll make more outs, sure, but they could also take more extra bases."

This Heat/Spurs game needs to pick up the pace so it does not go over the UCLA game.

70 Based on everyone's opinion of Pierre, it seems fitting he'll bat No. 2

Interesting contract for Pierre, no signing bonus, 7.5 million for 2007, 8 million for 2008, 10 million for 2009-2010 and then back down to 8.5 million for 2011.

I wish they would have frontloaded that deal.

Can i honestly say that this move is almost like forfieting the NL West for 5 years? i'm picking the Rockies over the Dodgers next year at this rate...

the rockies just made an excellent deal to lock up jeff francis on the cheap. 4 years, $13 million for a solid lefty starter who can pitch in coors.

85 Were'd you see that?

oh, and to address zappala's point from the last thread, hits aren't totally meaningless, but for a leadoff hitter in the national league, where the #8 and #9 spots are generally black holes, the #1 guy is just not going to get to bat with runners on base an awful lot. and if he does, a single is not going to let, say, the pitcher or catcher go first to third all that often. so, while hits are nice, they seem less important than they would be for someone else in the lineup.

[83] i'm watching that right now! in chinese.

89 rotoworld but they didn't source the blurb on his contract.

Keith Law's analysis comes down to this, the Dodgers paid too much and for too long for a player who will not get any better than what he is and right now that is not much.

The Angels paid big stupid bucks for something that is not there and chances are, it never will be.

I honestly think Ned Colletti and Bill Stoneman are playing some sort of game that only they know about.

Call it "Salary Chicken"

Ned: Man, I totally beat Bill with this Pierre signing. I mean, nobody saw this thing...Wait, he did what now?

Yeah, I would feel a lot better if they had just shoved a bunch of money in his face for the first two years. At least after that, the lower salary would make him appealing to...er...somebody?

I'm sure Ned has heard of frontloading deals.

I just got this message from a friend:

"the deal is official. I hope McCourt got that Geico for his monayyyyyy"

sigh.

Unless I am mistaken (and it happens, A LOT), Bob just dropped some Patty Duke knowledge over at Primer.

I work under DEEP cover there.

Patty and Cathy Lane were the daughters of identical twin brothers (both played by William Schallert).

I knew it!

You knew that William Schallert had a duel role? He only made one or two appearances as his "twin" brother.

100 I did not know that.

Actually, it might have just been one. He was "Uncle Jed". He was a foreign correspondent, unlike Martin Lane, who worked as an editor in New York City.

A hot dog doesn't make me lose control.

I never post at Primer. Don't know why, really. It's a nice break from Dodger type stuff.

Real reactionaries over there sometimes, though.

You have to watch yourself at Primer or someone will call your dead father a nine-letter profanity that involves a feminine hygiene product that is predominantly liquid in nature.

I would add that the guys who run Primer (BTF) are all very nice guys and I see them every year at the SABR convention.

[104] oh come on, that's not a real profanity. it's one of my favorite words! just say it. it's so satisfying to vocalize those syllables.

Well, I hope when you see them, they don't call your dead father Oil of Olay.

Yeah, it took me a while...

I once read a feminist defense of the use of that particular epithet. It was much funnier than the young woman who wrote it could have realized.

107
lol

I actually got the thread where the insult appeared killed because the guy who posted it violated one of the few rules of BTF, which is don't insult another commenter's family.

Other than that, pretty much anything goes there. There are a couple of very vocal Diamondbacks fans. And about 25,000 Mets fans who speak mainly in profanities.

110 Yeah, I've visited that site forever, but never really commented.

Some of the screen names, however, are fantastic.

It used to be the place to be for Dodger game chats.

Then Dodger Thoughts hit.

And it was the biggest change on the world scene since the Marshall Plan.

112 Bigger than Dylan going electric?

I think not.

Huh. So, UCLA is up by double digits at the half, and Steve, with his Pac 10 bashing ways, is nowhere to be found. Weird. I'm sure it's just a coincidence, though.

113
Bigger than Sonny Bono going network and making fur vests popular.

I think I will write my USC-Notre Dame piece tonight and put it up tomorrow, so there will be a college football thread for the whole weekend.

115 Wow. Jon really did change the world.

Could the first 1000 post Griddle entry be coming?

I'm not holding out hopes. I've been hurt before.

Oh, I finally got an email from the Super Hair people about their ad rates. I had a good laugh, but it's a lot more than I'd be willing to spend (even if I only had to pay half) for a practical joke.

119 We'll just advertise at Gawker.

I'm sure it's pretty cheap.

If a Griddle advertisement ended up on Wonkette or Defamer, I think I might just die of laughter.

It would be beautiful.

Steve Lavin's wearing a normal shirt on ESPN2. I bet there's a clause in his contract about it. If I'd written it, there would be.

A couple of good batting order optimization type of web pages.

1) http://tinyurl.com/ygqyaz

2) http://tinyurl.com/y68po8

3) http://tinyurl.com/y8a8dx

These guys are good with the math/stats part of the study. I like to use simulations to compare lineup constructs.
vr, Xei

123 Thanks, Xeifrank. I had seen the Hardball Times article, but not the other two.

Good stuff.

___________________________
Plus, with the way the market has currently been going, who's to say that five years from now, $9 million won't be a bargain for a leadoff hitter.
__________________________

almost newsradio funny.

that said, josh if you read this, i totally understand the restrictions put on you.

that said....i would like a job once i get out of college. I'm a marketing major and i can walk the company line just as good. Just let me be in charge of ITD and i'll only ask for 1/100th of Pierre's 2007 salary.

Watching UCLA play basketball is a nice change from football.

It's like the opposite of absolute shame.

127 Would that be absolute not shame?

not absolute shame?

Or is there some word that represents the opposite of shame? Is there any word that represents the opposite of any other word? Or do we just include some sort of privative adverb?

I was thinking of pride.

But yeah, not absolute shame works...

From the ESPN story on Pierre's signing:

"The addition of Pierre almost surely means Kenny Lofton won't be re-signed."

Uh, ya think?!

Believe it or not, that sentence made me worry that Lofton MIGHT be retained. I mean, if ESPN felt the need to even mention it, does that mean that it's not axiomatic? Nah, I'm just paranoid now. He wouldn't bench two rookies to have Pierre/Lofton/Furcal 1-2-3, would he?

Would he?

Hello?

132 Your new GM of the Dodgers...

Franz Kafka

We can only hope of a top of the lineup like that.

If the Dodgers get any more slappy in the lineup, I'm going to show up to games in penny loafers, a three-piece suit, and a straw hat reading Collier's Magazine and humming tunes from Tin Pan Alley.

Seriously, Dead Ball Era, here we come...

I wonder if I can bring my stereopticon to Dodger Stadium.

135, 136-These notions alone almost make the signing worthwhile.

Wake me up
Before you go-go
Don't leave me hanging there
like a yo-yo

That title forced me to do it.

*hanging on

Oh boy, the saddest thing about the dodgers offseason, is a lot of fans are seriously buying the thought that the dodgers are all about speed and defense and pitching, and like it.

Series of posts at dodgers.com:

someone poses the thought that the dodgers need power, and asks which players other people think are in the dodgers price range.

the responses:

1) Power is overrated. Just ask last years team.

2)that is how dodger baseball is, speed and pitching

3) why do the dodgers need another power bat. this team scored plenty of runs last yr. our pitching was thin in september. i beleive martin,loney,kemp ,betemit and either in time will provide power. we still have kemp and nomar to give us 20 plus dingers. get furcal and pierre on base with a double by nomar or kent and we score two.

4) AGREED

Dodgers.com message board is bad for one's health.

By the way, since I was talking about old timey stuff, I'd like to take this opportunity to say goodbye to two of my favorite television characters, Johnny and Vern, who died on November 5th.

A sample of their genius:

http://tinyurl.com/yh2bav

123 - Interesting point about the TOLOOGY (t wo o ut l eft-handed o ne o ut g u y). With effectively 4 lefty bats in the lineup (Furcal the only legit switch hitter), that cannot really be avoided. The best arrangement for two lefty bats would probably be Ethier in front of Betemit or Loney, since Ethier hits lefty pitching well enough.

Arranging with the 3 worst hitters in 6-8 would probably put Loney, Betemit and Pierre down there, all left-handers.

143 - in the HBT article, that is (when they talk about the Rangers)

140- Number four reminds me of someone. Have to go over and check.

Nope. At least, I don't think so.

145 I know of whom you speak.

Why do you guys always quote meaningless stats? That's a bunch of Depodesta nonsense. The guy's a winner. He's a great clubhouse presence and coupled with the talent the Dodgers already have he's going to make a big impact on the team. He set the table for the 2003 Marlins -- he's an experienced winning ballplayer with a lot of heart. A guy who has played in all his team's games for the past four years. You can't punch heart and character into a stat sheet. It's those intangibles that help you win games.

That guy is in the lead for greatest human being ever. Seriously, my only trip to Dodgers.com message board in two years, I and I get that...AWESOME!

Family Guy is becoming unwatachable for me.

149 - seriously, and then the Simpsons is starting to revert to those Family Guy sequences that don't derive from the plot of all. I'm starting to side with South Park in the cartoon wars.

Stupid manatees.

Has anybody seen The Fountain? The ad campaign confused me into believing this was the new one from the guy who did The Cell (which I enjoyed much more than anybody I know; it was flawed, no question, but the good stuff was really good), but that's called The Fall. And it isn't playing anywhere.

Whoops. Focus. Anybody seen The Fountain?

151 Don't ask me about The Fountain. I have waited four years to see that movie, and it is getting killed.

I haven't wanted to see a movie this much in, like, forever. I'm going to see it on Friday, and am terrified that it will not hold up to my ridiculous expectations. I know that it is very esoteric, and a lot of people are dropping the whole "I don't get it" thing on it. Very 2001 reaction.

So yeah, I have a lot to say about The Fountain. But I have lost all perspective.

Oh, and it's Darren Aronovsky (Pi, Requiem for a Dream) that wrote it and directed it.

If you like really beautiful imagery, I can tell you that The Fountain has it in spades.

Not that I've been following its path since the day that Brad Pitt decided to do it and dropped out and almost killed the project or anything.

150
South Park made fun of it perfectly.

153
Yeah, I was surprised the film eventually got made. Too bad it won't make much money, but Aronofsky does not need money to make a good film.

Darren Aronofsky was originally going to start the new Batman films, with Batman Year One.

I was very happy with Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale. Good reboot.

Heath Ledger as the Joker and Ethan Hawke as Two Face? Not really thrilled about those choices, but I'll keep the faith in Nolan.

156
I agree with both points. I wanted Steve Buscemi for the Joker, but they wanted younger. I liked Cillian Murphy as Scarecrow, he should still be in the series since he was never caught.

I'll tell you, I never got into comic books or graphic novels because I thought they were, you know, lame-o stuff (massive generalization, sorry), but a friend forced me to look at The Watchmen and another one called Black Hole, and I would love to see those made into movies.

Yup, I read two graphic novels.

Watchmen is being made into a movie, apparently just a single film though, no series.

Happy Thanksgiving to all at DT!

159-

By the same guy who did 300...which I saw by the way, and it's phenomenal.

161 I would have preferred Paul Greengrass, but Zack Snyder is okays by me.

I hope Juan Pierre has a happy Thanksgiving. He has a lot to be thankful for.

Like retarded free agent markets.

162-

I know this has been discussed ad nauseum. But one thing continues to baffle me. Some people keep saying "well this is the market so with inflation it's not that bad of a deal."

I don't care what the market is, I don't care what the inflation rate is, paying 9 million bucks a year for Juan Pierre is NEVER okay. It doesn't matter what the market is, would ANYONE here give a league average at best player 9 mill a year? I still can't wrap my head around it...

Other than that, what's the next step? Schmidt? Zito? Dunn?

The person who knows what happens next is Ned Colletti.

And that scares me.

Honestly, I think he's going to try and land Schmidt, and then spin off some pitching for a power hitter.

Where that power hitter Plays? No clue. But if it's Adam Dunn, you've got to figure Dunn, Ethier, and Pierre in the OF, with Kemp on the horizon. I hope it's Dunn.

This week's "Most important article in the history of science" is out:

http://tinyurl.com/yh7kp2

I hope next week's article is just as promising. I dunno, maybe a transporter machine or something.

Honestly, I think he's going to try and land Schmidt, and then spin off some pitching for a power hitter.

Im going to be sooo disappointed if that means trading Kuo.....
I guess I dont know who else we have that would be of any value to land a Dunn though, unless the Dodgers are willing to take on a TON of $ for Burrell (if available)

I dont know why but, I am not too worried about Billingsley being traded I think I just cant see him as a trading chip.

I guess I dont know who else we have that would be of any value to land a Dunn though,

to clairify I am talking the pitcher Ned hopes to trade

166

In all due respect I can't see Adam Dunn in a Dodger uniform in 2007. I like many on this site don't quite understand the Pierre transaction completely, less the money but more the additional year.

I actually thought that the way to go once we didn't get either Soriano or Ramirez. would have either have tried the Abury Huff selection-far cheaper less years and a more balanced lineup. Dave Roberts would also been fine, and would have requiried less years and less money.

We could have used them until the kids are fully ready. The five years for Juan is tough

I actually thought that the way to go once we didn't get either Soriano or Ramirez. would have either have tried the Abury Huff selection-far cheaper less years and a more balanced lineup.

I am going to hope that if we cant trade for a power hitter Huff isnt that backup plan.....for reasons already mentioned w/ Pierre and his non value to the Dodgers and over players already on the roster

The following numbers are very interesting- Would 2 yrs./$17 mil get it done?

From Chicago Tribune.com-
The Cubs haven't expressed an interest in re-signing Maddux again but haven't ruled anything out. Maddux's second-half numbers compare favorably with five free agents on the Cubs' radar, not to mention the two biggest fish in the free-agent pitching pond.

Maddux went 8-5 with a 3.88 ERA after the All-Star break, including four starts with the Cubs before he was traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Barry Zito went 8-4 with a 4.55 ERA in the second half, while Jason Schmidt was 5-4 with a 4.76 ERA. The Cubs are looking at Ted Lilly (7-5, 4.61 ERA in the second half), Gil Meche (3-4, 5.42 ERA), Jason Marquis (3-10, 6.72 ERA), Miguel Batista (3-3, 4.10 ERA) and Vicente Padilla (7-5, 4.56 ERA). Maddux reportedly is seeking a two-year deal and figures to wind up with the Dodgers or in San Diego.

Aubrey Huff = Should be a DH (terrible defense)

I'm not a fan...

But more importantly, happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Yes, yes, Happy Thanksgiving to all!

funny article bashing Pierre.....http://www.sportsblah.com/2006_11_01_archive.html#116425157140827539

With Soriano making $17M per, the Manny Ramirez contract doesn't look so bad any more.

Anybody here willing to do this deal?

Manny Ramirez + $4M

for

Matt Kemp and Johnathan Broxton

What makes me so inordinately pissy about the signing is that it counteracts every strength of the Dodger organization, namely a surfeit of really good OF prospects. Having guys like Ethier, Kemp and Loney means that you don't have to blow 5yrs/$45M on a cipher like Pierre. And if you're Colletti and you're nervous about these guys not being ready for prime time (and that's a perfectly reasonable concern), then why not go out and sign an aging, bur serviceable player of comparable talent for a year or two? I'm not a Lofton guy, but is there anyone here who belives that his 2007 numbers wouldn't be comparable to Pierre's for four fewer years and probably $5M+ less? Is there anyone here who doesn't believe that, given 150 games, Kemp couldn't put up a 750 OPS, which is more than any fan of average intelligence would reason that Pierre is going to turn in?

I guess this is all well-trod ground at this point, but if there are five organizations in Major League Baseball who don't have to go out and commit five years to a marginal OF who does nothing to address the team's biggest deficiencies, it's the Dodgers.

Not to get vindictive, but this is classicly misguided SF management -- commiting too much to post-peak veterans (Michael Tucker anyone?) who will age a team into oblivion.

What a horrendous turn of events.

Well the 7 year 100 million contract is misleading. They bought out his three years of arbitration before he had any free agent rights. Players don't usually make squat before free agency. 2007 would be the first year he would be eligible for free agency and he's gonna get $15 million next year. Which is not as much as he would get on the open market, but he leaves a bunch of money on the table b/c the cardinals gave him three years guaranteed money when they didn't have to.

The Marlin's still have Cabrera for two more years. I understand it would be cheaper to lock him up now, but as great as miguel is, hes not Albert Pujols, not by a long shot.

Everyone gets caught up in the $44 million Pierre is getting, but in terms of annual value its not bad at all. Pierre is a young athletic player that is probably a top 5 leadoff man. In this market its not any worse than Gary Matthews Jr. The key to the deal is that its small enough so the Dodgers can eat it if they made a mistake. 9 million a year, not so bad, 16 million a year for Carlos Lee, uhhh... Ask me, J.D. Drew or Juan Pierre, i'll take Pierre and 162 games over Drew and 59 to 101 games.

Last post I swear,

Also their always the possibility that this was a move so we could trade Furcal. Maybe a furcal for tejada trade is in the works, or Furcal for Javier Vazquez, Furcal for Joe Crede, Furcal for Manny Ramirez, Furcal for Vernon Wells, I could go on for awhile, a lot of people need shortstops and leadoff men.