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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Hub Fans Bid JD a Doozy
2006-12-05 16:36
by Jon Weisman

If nothing else, J.D. Drew sure knows how to raise expectations for himself. You'd think a guy so shy (or reserved) would be worried about that, but he is all business. I don't mean that as a pejorative - just as an observation. He is something of a contradiction.

Now that the Boston Red Sox have signed Drew to a five-year contract worth $70 million, my question is this:

What kind of performance will Red Sox fans require of Drew to be satisfied with him?

My initial thoughts: at least a .300 batting average, 25 home runs, 100 RBI, .950 OPS, 140 games played, one huge clutch hit and one clutch catch a month - including one in the first week - along with some slightly lesser hits of renown, good vibes from the clubhouse, and a cinematic moment of playing through pain.

Every year.

If the Red Sox keep Manny Ramirez, that will lessen the pressure on Drew. But with Drew, very often it was less a case of "What have you done for me lately?" and more "What did you do firstly?" His rep has proven hard to shake, and the sooner he can lay waste to it, the more happiness he may be able to find. And, in fact, even if the fans aren't happy with him, that won't necessarily mean Drew won't help the team.

Most likely, Drew will be a big asset some years but not others. And if the Sox win a World Series one of those years - who knows, Drew might be allowed to carry Dave Roberts' gear at Oldtimers' Day.

Comments (303)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-12-05 16:57:17
1.   D4P
a cinematic moment of playing through pain

Maybe one of his bad knees can bleed through unto his uniform...

2006-12-05 17:03:07
2.   Honoluludodger
Aloha Mr. Drew. My brother is a Red Sox fan. He and his friends will not be as filled with the "Aloha spirit" as the Dodger fans were. We wanted to love you. But the Arizona Diamondbacks broke your arm before you could win our hearts. May you have better luck in Boston. My brother and the other fans of Boston will not be as patient as we were.


2006-12-05 17:05:10
3.   bigcpa
All those sliding Trot Nixon catches are going to be caught by Drew on a dead run leading to cries that he won't get dirty. And I predict Wade Boggs doubles numbers.
2006-12-05 17:05:23
4.   kinbote
drew's best moment in blue was that amazing catch he made in arizona in deep right center. his worst was getting thrown out at home during the playoffs. like kevin brown, he was a dodger in uniform and paystub only . . .
2006-12-05 17:10:37
5.   Jon Weisman
3 - "All those sliding Trot Nixon catches are going to be caught by Drew on a dead run leading to cries that he won't get dirty. "

Wow, that's too true.

2006-12-05 17:12:57
6.   kinbote
correction: the catch was in san diego.
2006-12-05 17:15:12
7.   scareduck
BTW, Jon, brilliant hed. Those who don't get it may wish to read this:

2006-12-05 17:15:45
8.   bigcpa
4 he was a dodger in uniform and paystub only

Is this true of any highly paid free agent or do you have some other criteria?

2006-12-05 17:17:19
9.   GMac In The 909
8 It's not true of Juan Pierre; he wanted to be here. Oh wait ...
2006-12-05 17:19:37
10.   Jon Weisman
7 - Thanks. It's the fourth word that I'm really battling myself over. I've been going back and forth on it.
2006-12-05 17:20:45
11.   Curtis Lowe
8- He opted out after saying he would not. I would say that is some pretty compelling evidence for the statement in 4.
2006-12-05 17:21:48
12.   Curtis Lowe
Trot Nixon is a grittier baseball name than J.D Drew. Based on names alone I would rather have Trot.
2006-12-05 17:22:17
13.   Icaros
From Jerry Crasnick:

"The Rockies, priced out on Dave Roberts, have Darin Erstad, Kenny Lofton and Steve Finley on their radar screen as center field options."

I can't decide who I most want them to sign.

2006-12-05 17:23:32
14.   Uncle Miltie
The Dodgers pushed hard on Toronto to see if there was a fit for center fielder Vernon Wells and inquired with Florida about Dontrelle Willis. Neither bid gained much traction.

The Devil Rays for now wisely are rejecting overtures for outfielders Carl Crawford and Rocco Baldelli

While speculating on an Opening Day lineup on Tuesday, Rays manager Joe Maddon had Akinori Iwamura at third base and didn't include B.J. Upton.

If Bossman is available, Ned needs to look into what it would take to acquire him. Bossman could be our 2b for the next 10 years.

2006-12-05 17:23:50
15.   thinkingblue
Ok, since it's Hacksaw, I know it's probably not true, but he just said Detroit's asking price for career .263/.310./.461 hitting Monroe is Chad Billingsley.

I think I might never go to dodger stadium again if Ned did this.

2006-12-05 17:24:05
16.   scareduck
Maddux is a Padre:

$10M/1 year, with a player option for anywhere from $6M to $10M, depending on how many innings he pitches.

2006-12-05 17:24:52
17.   kinbote
bigcpa--he had a pretty swing, played good defense, and put up good numbers when healthy. i'd been a fan of his ever since he hit three homers in a college world series game. the way he left leaves me completely un-nostalgic for his past services. but this has all been covered ad nauseum . . .
2006-12-05 17:25:35
18.   still bevens
I think we're cursed with having such good prospects. Everyone is asking us for the sun and moon in their dealings with Ned but seemingly less hot property from other folks.
2006-12-05 17:25:36
19.   Uncle Miltie
15- they also asked for Nick Markakis from the Orioles.
2006-12-05 17:25:41
20.   trainwreck
I think we should try sign Schmidt and then just stay dormant.
2006-12-05 17:28:57
21.   saltcreek
From LA times...sorry if this is a repost...."Signing Saito eliminates any chance the Dodgers would re-sign Gagne, and one of Gagne's representatives said this evening that the former Cy Young Award winner is close to an agreement with an undisclosed team for a one-year deal worth about $5 million." Bummer.
2006-12-05 17:29:33
22.   bigcpa
11 I guess my perspective has changed, but I was far more hurt when Piazza turned down 6 yrs/$90m. Talk about a true Dodger who let greed take him over.
2006-12-05 17:29:44
23.   trainwreck
Red Sox
2006-12-05 17:30:28
24.   DodgerHobbit
5mil... Ned is carrying the Boras hate pretty far.
and then there was one.
2006-12-05 17:30:35
25.   trainwreck
A Red Sox fan reported on my sports board that they are reporting a Dodgers trifecta in the Boston area. Gagne, Lugo, and Drew.
2006-12-05 17:31:33
26.   trainwreck
I am pretty dissapointed we would not take a chance on Gagne. Not like we cannot afford it.
2006-12-05 17:34:10
27.   LetsGoDodgers
26 amen, brother
2006-12-05 17:36:25
28.   Honoluludodger

Actually, how Mr. Drew is received by the Boston fans will be determined by (i) his performance and (ii) their expecations. If the fans expect Mr. Drew to perform like a number 2 hitter, he could be one of the best in the league. Unfortunately, his salary demands and "potential" make people think he is a clean up hitter. And that is where the disappoint arises. A successful team needs its "big bat" to play almost every day and to hit for power on a regular basis.

That is why, I believe, Mr. Drew disappointed the Dodger fans. So if Boston management lowers fan expectations to a leval Mr. Drew can meet, he may have a successful five years. I wish him well.


2006-12-05 17:37:10
29.   Jon Weisman
28 - Yes, absolutely. If ...
2006-12-05 17:38:49
30.   Sam DC
Great stuff on DT tonight.

Eric -- I keep trying to squeeze in Matt Stairs. I think "to stair" could be a verb --- "Her apartment was on the twenty second floor, but I was so excited I staired up in no time."

Can I get a ruling?

I think the lower dollar player option was a pretty clever solution to the impasse the Padres and Maddux were heading towards on the one year/two year thing. But it is a big contract and while offering arb had risk, I think the people (um like me) who thought it was a pretty safe risk and worth it were right.

2006-12-05 17:39:19
31.   scareduck
28 - That's quite a piece of PR management if they're successful.
2006-12-05 17:41:39
32.   DodgerHobbit
Expectations are at least partially determined by your contract. So Boston can only lower the fans expectations so much.
2006-12-05 17:44:14
33.   Sam DC
Also Eric, if "Bill" is a verb, isn't every bill on the list?
2006-12-05 17:44:47
34.   Honoluludodger
29, 31. I agree. Personally, since I grew up in a house filled with Red Sox fans, I believe that that type of PR management will be impossible. Still, that is what the Red Sox should do. Either that or Mr. Drew could suddenly reach his legendary "potential". Otherwise, I don't know if the Red Sox fans will love Mr. Drew the way we did.


2006-12-05 17:45:58
35.   saltcreek
26. as am I. I need to go find a new favorite dodger.
2006-12-05 17:45:59
36.   LAT
It will be tough seeing Gagne pitch elsewhere but if it is Boston at least he won't face us. At least not often. Also unlike the way Gazo feels about the D'Backs or LoDuca feels about the Dodgers, Gagne should not harbor any ill-will towards the Dodgers.

As for Drew, he would be well served if the Sox keep Manny as that would make him the third biggest bat and reduce expectations, but I don't see that happening. How do you sign the Dodger trifecta, keep Manny and still have enough money to obtain the Boras represented Daisuke Matsuzaka. I believe a Manny deal will be made in the next 9 days. That is how long the Sox have to negotiate for Matsuzaka before the window closes and he is sent back to Japan.

Lastly, whether Drew is accepted in Boston will not be determined by the quality of his play. He will hit like Ted Williams in Fenway. The issue will be if he plays at all. If he has an early injury or worse yet injuries himself in spring training--watch out it will get ugly in a hurry.

2006-12-05 17:47:41
37.   Bob Timmermann
From the OED:

stair, v.

1 Obs. rare.

[perh. f. STAIR n.]

1. trans. To ascend.

a1400-50 Wars Alex. 3923 Stayrand on e staunke e stour to asaill. Ibid. 4834 With at stairis he forth e stye at stret to e est.
2. trans. To make in the form of stairs.

?a1412 LYDG. Two Merchants 635 Though to richesse ther be no grees i-steyred Tascenden vp.

2006-12-05 17:49:55
38.   Sam DC
I'm thinking Chase Utley makes the list too, unless I skimmed the rules too quick.
2006-12-05 17:52:19
39.   Honoluludodger
36. Aloha LAT. You wrote "He will hit like Ted Williams in Fenway." I guess the real question is whether Mr. Drew will hit like (i)Ted Williams hit in Fenway in 1945 or (ii)Ted Williams would hit in Fenway post cryogenics. Which brings us back to your excellent point about Mr. Drew's injuries (or lack therof) will be the determining factor.


2006-12-05 17:55:06
40.   Bob Timmermann
Ted Williams didn't get a single hit in Fenway Park in 1945.
2006-12-05 17:55:30
41.   Honoluludodger
39. Correction 1945 should be changed to 1946. Mr. Williams did not play in Fenway in 1945. Let's hope Mr. Drew doesn't have the same problem.
2006-12-05 17:55:55
42.   gpellamjr
Man... Gagne was the only free agent I was hoping would be signed. Where do I direct my anger? Boras? Colletti? Depodesta? JD Drew? Andrew Shimmin?
2006-12-05 17:56:19
43.   Honoluludodger
40. I was typing my correction while you made your post. Bravo Mr. Timmerman.
2006-12-05 17:58:30
44.   D4P
Always direct at least some of your anger Mr. Walmart...
2006-12-05 17:58:55
45.   Berkeley Doug
7 In the spirit of the discussion about Ted Williams and Jon's title for this post, I would highly recommend John Updike's piece about Ted Williams' last game. It's one of my favorite pieces of baseball literature.
2006-12-05 18:02:24
46.   jakewoods
What a waste of dough.

He couldnt carry Trot Nixons jock.

2006-12-05 18:03:00
47.   dsfan
Assuming Lugo gets about $9 million per year and Matsuzaka gets about $12 million per year, the Red Sox soon will count about $157 million on their 2007 budget for NINE players plus the Seibu bid. The nine: Matsuzaka, Drew, Ramirez, Clement, Lugo, Schilling, Ortiz, Lowell, Varitek.

Two mitigating factors for Boston: The bid to Seibu is exempted from the luxury tax and, MLB protestations notwithstanding, the Sox could partly offset the bid's cost by cutting side deals with Seibu.
However, the present-day-value of the $51.1 million makes it even more expensive, as the entire sum is due once the Sox come to terms with Matsuzaka. Clement, by the way, has a bum shoulder and is basically a sunk cost at $9.25 million.

I think Boston is one Manny hamstring twinge away from feeling pretty desperate to save a huge chunk on Manny. Hopefully if the Dodgers revisit these talks they will act like they are in the driver's set rather than jumping in front of the front grill, like they did in the Pierre talks.

2006-12-05 18:04:05
48.   Sam DC
So, am I no longer fit for polite company if I'm wondering what happened to Eric Stults? Last I remember, he was standing up to the Mets in fine fashion, now he seems to have been airbrushed out of all the old photos.
2006-12-05 18:04:49
49.   Bob Timmermann
These aren't the droids you're looking for.
2006-12-05 18:05:30
50.   Honoluludodger
46. Aloha jakewoods. You write, "He couldnt carry Trot Nixons jock." If that was one of the reasons that Boston signed Mr Drew, I think that they overpaid him. You can find much cheaper (and friendlier) labor for that kind of work.


Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-12-05 18:06:53
51.   Sam DC
I had wondered about that -- they couldn't agree to a payment schedule that spread the posting money out over some time period (the length of Dash's contract, for example)?
2006-12-05 18:07:01
52.   Bob Timmermann
Some of us had teachers that got us through the section on World War II in school.

I remember my father telling me stories about what he did during World War II. He was part of the Greatest Generation. The part of that stayed home because he was too young to fight, but he did make sure the cows got milked and would drive the tractor on dates because it was exempt from gas rationing.

2006-12-05 18:08:28
53.   Sam DC
I think Trot Nixon works for Eric's game. Ho Chi Minh might have said it! Or Sam Ervin.
2006-12-05 18:09:13
54.   D4P
I learned for the first time, just this past Thanksgiving, that my father's father was attending the University of California at Berkeley studying to be a dentist when he was called away to fly bomber planes over the Pacific in WWII. He never finished his dentistry studies.
2006-12-05 18:09:18
55.   Honoluludodger
43. Is that a joke about my apparent failure to understand that WWII ended in 1945? Mr. Timmerman, you show me no aloha.
2006-12-05 18:10:56
56.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, it was more of a reference to Greg Brock's ability to drag his kids through the entire curriculum in history class and not get stuck in the Civil War for six weeks.

And a good chance to talk about my dad and cows.

2006-12-05 18:11:20
57.   gpellamjr
44 Um... did you just call me "Mr. Walmart"? Okay... back to grading papers, whose strange punctuation, limited diction, and verbless sentences I am paid (though poorly) to criticize.
2006-12-05 18:11:54
58.   dsfan

Nope, the entire bid is due upon agreement to terms with the player. Heck, I doubt several clubs even have $51.1 million in cash, let alone the ability to spend it at once. That's one reason so many people are skeptical about Lucchino's recent journey to Japan. Somehow, someway you can bet the Sox are confident that they can cut some sort of side deal with Seibu that will offset that $51.1 million.

2006-12-05 18:12:39
59.   D4P
Oops, that was supposed to say "toward Mr. Walmart"
2006-12-05 18:13:48
60.   Honoluludodger
55. Mr. Timmerman, you are always welcome to write about your Dad and cows. Incidentally, I have my degree in history and I certainly know that WWII ended in 1945. Just a typo. Aloha.
2006-12-05 18:14:58
61.   dsfan
I'm not from Hawaii but I like the word mahalo. What a great way to end a post.


2006-12-05 18:16:46
62.   Honoluludodger
61. Aloha dsfan.

Mahalo for your mahalo.

2006-12-05 18:18:01
63.   Robert Daeley
Rangers interested in Repko?

"Repko isn't likely to hack it as an everyday center fielder, but he'd be a fine platoonmate for a left-handed hitter. The Rangers could sign Kenny Lofton and then recreate the Dodgers' center-field situation from the early part of last year."

2006-12-05 18:20:05
64.   Sam DC
60 It's not just cows. Bob can cover his dad's views on the run of ungulates, including beeves, heifers, steer, oxen. Good clean fun.
2006-12-05 18:20:45
65.   trainwreck
Jason Repko? This Dodger coveting is getting out of hand.
2006-12-05 18:25:51
66.   Eric Enders
30 Sam, as in spelling bees, the official arbiter is Webster's Unabridged, Third Edition. Which doesn't include "stair" as a verb, alas.

Whoever said Ben Hendrickson before, that counts. And yes, so does every Bill.

2006-12-05 18:28:34
67.   trainwreck
Rangers | More on Zito offer
Mon, 4 Dec 2006 23:38:01 -0800

Updating a previous item, The Chicago Tribune and Fox Sports' Ken Rosenthal are both reporting the contract offer to free-agent SP Barry Zito (Athletics) from the Texas Rangers is six years at $102 million.

2006-12-05 18:29:20
68.   Eric Enders
Mark Hendrickson. Ben Hendrickson doesn't count.
2006-12-05 18:30:06
69.   gpellamjr
59 Don't take it personal, dude. I'm really made at Andrew, I didn't mean to take it out on you. Can you forgive me so we can focus our vitriol where it belongs?
2006-12-05 18:31:37
70.   dsfan

I enjoyed your Drew post. If you are looking to write more about Drew, how about examining (again) whether Ned should have better anticipated his departure. I'm not saying Ned should have known a few months ago that Drew was going to get $70 million. Still Drew more than doubled his $33 million and Ned acted like a guy who didn't see anything like that on the horizon. Kind of scary, no? Markets are tough to predict, of course. Who would have predicted that Pierre would get $44 million?
Maybe the Dodgers are better off without Drew but it is disappointing that Ned wasn't more attuned to Drew/Boras and the markets. So often Dodgers GMs appear to react posthaste to events rather than anticipating them. This looks like another example. Teams like Oakland and San Diego, conversely, seem to anticipate events.

2006-12-05 18:31:38
71.   Sam DC
Chase Utley and Barry Bonds are in too, I'd say.

Musing on Ben Sheets, but I don't think it's going to get there.

2006-12-05 18:32:05
72.   Honoluludodger
59. I don't like Walmart either. But I really like Kmart. I understand that its the "savings place".


2006-12-05 18:33:04
73.   Bob Timmermann
I meant no disrespect in 43, but I see how it didn't work.

Like John Kerry, a "botched joke."

Time to go find a rich widowed heiress to a ketchup fortune I guess.

2006-12-05 18:33:14
74.   D4P
More on Zito offer

I think you meant moron Zito offer

I wasn't taking anything personally. I was trying to say that, of course you should direct anger toward Andrew Shimmin.

2006-12-05 18:34:11
75.   gpellamjr
68 Can we count names that are sentences with an elipsis of the form of "to be"?
2006-12-05 18:34:24
76.   Honoluludodger
70. Aloha dsfan. I agree completely. I do not care that we lost Mr. Drew, but I wish that our management did not appear to be shocked by it.


2006-12-05 18:35:21
77.   gpellamjr
74 Listen, you're not making this any easier on me, can you just accept an apology for once?
2006-12-05 18:36:39
78.   D4P
In the immortal words of "Maverick": "No apologies"

(Cue: Take My Breath Away)

2006-12-05 18:36:41
79.   gpellamjr
So, is it really the case that the Dodgers couldn't/wouldn't offer Gagne a $5mil/1yr deal? I hardly believe it.
2006-12-05 18:37:38
80.   nick
71 Chase Utley? I don't even know Utley....
2006-12-05 18:38:09
81.   dzzrtRatt
63 The reason ex-Dodgers are so popular? The other teams are hoping that Billingsley/Kemp/Martin/Loney/Broxton/Kuo magic is contagious!

I reserve the right to change my mind; I already have. But as of now, I would advise Neddy to try to sign Schmidt, but if that doesn't work out, just stand pat. Every position except for SS and C should be a competition this spring. Let's just see what we've got.

The curse of having all these hot prospects is every GM thinks he has to bag one if he does a deal with LA. Nobody wants Hendrickson or Tomko or Hall. Even if they need 'em, they don't want 'em. It would be like going to Nordstrom's and only buying underwear (which I've done.) So we're not going to hear realistic offers for anybody.

2006-12-05 18:39:38
82.   Sam DC
So, other than Obi Wan, no one's gonna bite on Eric Stults?
2006-12-05 18:39:47
83.   nick
and a simple comma between the words would bring "Andy Pettite" into play...
2006-12-05 18:40:00
84.   Honoluludodger
73. Aloha Mr. Timmerman. That is correct. And like Mr. Kerry, the "botch" ruined a perfectly good joke. I have to learn to type more effectively just as Mr. Kerry, apparently needs to practice his jokes a little more before he makes them.


2006-12-05 18:44:59
85.   Bob Timmermann
In the meantime, I have become the heir to a large mustard fortune.
2006-12-05 18:45:06
86.   Eric Enders
75 No... I'm a stickler.

Sentences requiring commas sorta count, albeit with an asterisk, like Ernie Shore. In fact "Ernie, shore." is one of these.

Ron, hunt.
Al, maul.


2006-12-05 18:46:01
87.   Sam DC
Aloha, Honoluludodger. Just 'cause you're using it quite a bit, and because Bob is too polite (and unconcerned) to say anything, thought I'd pass on that he does Timmermann with two n's at the end.


2006-12-05 18:47:53
88.   Sam DC
86 Jason, bay.
2006-12-05 18:52:10
89.   Bob Timmermann
So "Phenomenal! Smith" wouldn't count?
2006-12-05 18:52:45
90.   saltcreek
The Lugo deal is 4 years 36 million. Glad we at least got some picks. Wish we would have offered Maddux arb though.
2006-12-05 18:57:44
91.   StolenMonkey86
All in all, not a bad day for me.

Get out of my physics lab exam early, get $30 in an econ experiment, and we got Saito for a cool $1,000,000.

2006-12-05 18:59:07
92.   saltcreek
106 million on JD Drew and Lugo. I dont understand they can afford Daisuke Matsuzaka, Lugo, Drew, and still somehow get a closer without trading Manny.
2006-12-05 18:59:44
93.   Uncle Miltie
Why does Dan Shulman always get paired with Dick Vitale? It would be like Vin getting paired with Tim McCarver.
2006-12-05 18:59:46
94.   Benaiah
36 - I honestly do not think the Red Sox are going to sign Matsuzaka. From the very beginning that bid screamed: "block the Yankees!" I don't think Manny is going to get traded and arguably the Sox would be better off with him than with Matsuzaka. They would have the best lineup in the league bar none, and they would be competitive with the Yanks staff too, especially if some of their young guys pitch better.
2006-12-05 19:03:19
95.   Kayaker7
Nice writeup, Jon. I was thinking that if I were in Drew's shoes, the $70M will help me cope emotionally.
2006-12-05 19:03:59
96.   LAT
81. It would be like going to Nordstrom's and only buying underwear

In the case of Hendrickson, Tomko or Hall that would be dirty underwear.

2006-12-05 19:05:05
97.   Bob Timmermann
I've gone to Nordstrom and just bought underwear.
2006-12-05 19:05:13
98.   Ladderkite
94 - The Yankees had "the best lineup in the league" last year. That didn't work out too well. Pitching is where it's at. Matsuzaka could be an Ace for a decade.
2006-12-05 19:07:44
99.   gpellamjr
89 I imagine Enders requires all sentences to have verbs (and my students call me a grammar nazi!). My favorite sentence in all of western literature is from Xenophon's Anabasis: "Thalassa! Thalassa!" If it's good enough for Xenophon, it's good enough for me. All names, being exclamable, are sentences. "Mike Piazza!" "Tim Wallach!" "Greg Pellam!"
2006-12-05 19:08:09
100.   saltcreek
94. I still think the yankees will have the better lineup. Besides Ortiz, Varitek, and Manny, the yankees have the edge at every position.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-12-05 19:09:31
101.   regfairfield
98 It got them the best record in baseball.
2006-12-05 19:10:07
102.   still bevens
Who's to say the Red Sox wont go over their budget? I mean, what stops the Yankees? John Hendry has the money doesnt he?
2006-12-05 19:10:48
103.   Benaiah
98 - The Red Sox had the best lineup in 2004, how did that work out?
Pitching is important, but it is less than 50% of what wins games. Scoring runs is half of winning and preventing runs is the other half. Since hitting explains basically all of scoring runs, but defense also makes up part of run prevention, hitting is more important than pitching. In a five game series anything can happen, but over the course of the year, hitting trumps pitching.
2006-12-05 19:13:37
104.   D4P
Since hitting explains basically all of scoring runs

Scoring runs = f(hitting, character, veteran presence, knowing how to win)

2006-12-05 19:15:30
105.   trainwreck
The Red Sox are rich who says that cannot afford all these players.
2006-12-05 19:16:32
106.   Bob Timmermann
I thought John Henry was a steel driving man?
2006-12-05 19:18:31
107.   robohobo
94. I agree. I remember someone on this blog hypothesizing why the Red Sox couldn't bid 100 million dollar (muu hah hah hah) just to block the Yankees, not sign the guy and be not a penny poorer. They didn't end up bidding 100 million, just 51,111,111 bucks.
2006-12-05 19:19:00
108.   D4P
The Dodgers also are believed to have made a run at Milwaukee outfielder Kevin Mench, as they did at last year's Winter Meetings, when he was coming off a 25-homer season in Texas. He was traded to Milwaukee during the 2006 season, in which he hit only 13 homers. The Brewers are looking for starting pitching, so Mark Hendrickson could be a trade candidate
2006-12-05 19:19:34
109.   Ladderkite
Time and time again dominant pitching wins in the postseason (DBacks). I'm not going to get drawn into the exhaustive pitching vs hitting debate, however it is obvious that both are indeed necessary. Regular season records are obviously moot come playoff time (Cardinals, Marlins, etc...). I am simply stating that having "the best lineup in baseball" isn't enough. Having "tblib" and dominant young pitching is nice.
2006-12-05 19:20:21
110.   robohobo
Why 51,111,111? They must have had an insider tip that the Yankees bid 51,111,110
2006-12-05 19:23:15
111.   Sam DC
108 I guess we really are going after character guys now.

Lugo gone.

A Mench coming in!

2006-12-05 19:25:14
112.   still bevens
Uh how many of you guys wouldnt trade Hnedrickson for Mensch in a heartbeat?
2006-12-05 19:25:41
113.   Uncle Miltie
The Dodgers could have a new game between innings where Mench and Pierre swap helmets and (attempt in Mench's case) to put them on.
2006-12-05 19:29:30
114.   Robert Daeley
Okay this is really, really weird. Check out this Gurnick story just posted on

"Boras said rumors that Maddux had agreed to a contract with the San Diego Padres weren't true, saying only "we're moving positively in a couple directions.""

"[Colletti] said he has interest in free-agent outfielder Luis Gonzalez, but denied claims by Gonzalez's agent, Gregg Clifton, that he had made an offer. Gonzalez is also being pursued by Baltimore and St. Louis, according to Clifton."

2006-12-05 19:29:33
115.   natepurcell
So what should we ask for in return for jason repko?

I mean, we might kind of need him next year. I was looking at their relief pitching and im not really enanmored with any of them. unless they want to give us eric hurley...

2006-12-05 19:31:22
116.   natepurcell
actually, Joaquin Benoit has pretty good peripherals.

repko for Joaquin Benoit and hendrickson for mench works for me.

2006-12-05 19:34:01
117.   natepurcell
hahaha, dicky V on espn just said "THEY GAVE 36 MILLION TO JULIO LUGO!?!??!"

if dickey V thinks its absurd, it has to be absurd.

2006-12-05 19:35:56
118.   Bob Timmermann
The winning bid is supposed to be

Please send the eleven cents in coin to"

Larry Lucchino
Fenway Park
Boston, MA

The Red Sox will accept one dime and one penny, two nickels and one penny, one nickel and six pennies, but anyone sending eleven pennies will get their money returned.

2006-12-05 19:36:19
119.   still bevens
whats he doing talking about baseball?
2006-12-05 19:37:18
120.   D4P
Two coins add up to 11 cents. One of them is not a dime. What are they...?

(Feel free to go to the li-bary to look it up...)

2006-12-05 19:38:05
121.   trainwreck
Vitale is just mad he got more money than the D-Rays total payroll.
2006-12-05 19:42:34
122.   natepurcell

during the Arizona/Louisville bball game, there was an espn update and they gave FA signing news from the winter meetings.

2006-12-05 19:43:57
123.   Steve
As God is my witness, if we trade Mark Hendrickson's cat, much less Mark Hendrickson himself, I will never shop at Wal-mart again.
2006-12-05 19:45:14
124.   D4P
It's a deal.
2006-12-05 19:45:58
125.   still bevens
Man that blurb about Gagne kinda sorta possibly going to Arizona struck me with the fear.
2006-12-05 19:46:49
126.   Uncle Miltie
Dukie V is a Devil Rays fan, he knows what's up.

I can't believe that Mustafa Shakur is already a senior. He (and Hassan Adams) really should have left after their sophomore years when they would have been first round draft picks. I can't see Shakur going any higher than in the middle of the 2nd round.

2006-12-05 19:52:42
127.   natepurcell
so who are possible type A free agents the sox could sign to push the dodgers compensation back to the 2nd round? that would be an nightmare.
2006-12-05 20:00:15
128.   natepurcell
why are we talking about Mench and not Geoff Jenkins?
2006-12-05 20:00:54
129.   still bevens
I cant see the Sox signing any more FAs unless there's some closers out there who wont demand alot of cash money.

Heres a good breakdown of Drew's projections in Fenway -

Hey Nate you're a metal fan right? Did you get the new Isis album?

2006-12-05 20:02:24
130.   DodgerHobbit
i cannot see it either....they must be pushing 140 before raises to year to year guys.
2006-12-05 20:03:53
131.   trainwreck
I got it and the DVD.
2006-12-05 20:04:00
132.   natepurcell
Hey Nate you're a metal fan right? Did you get the new Isis album?

yea. what do you think of it?

2006-12-05 20:09:37
133.   still bevens
131 That DVD is pretty great - almost to the point where I wonder if they didnt do any cosmetic fix ups in post production. Sounds almost too flawless. I guess they did an album release party in Silver Lake a couple weeks ago and I missed out =( Not sure if they performed or not tho.

I think its a solid album. Not as good as Panopticon, but those are for my own personal reasons. I kinda liked the fact that I had to listen to it like 10 times before I was able to get a full feel for it.

2006-12-05 20:10:34
134.   DodgerHobbit
well ... maybe they sign someone else if they can salary dump Clement or Lowell onto some poor unsuspecting team.
I think these are the remaining free agents that rate higher than Lugo that were offered arbitration...

Zito hasn't expressed an interest in playign there
Schmidt stated he prefers west coast teams
Suppan no idea
Aurillia might want him if they want to dump Lowell
Walker might want him to replace Loretta

2006-12-05 20:11:04
135.   trainwreck
I like Panopticon the best as well.
2006-12-05 20:15:12
136.   natepurcell
Im a huge Oceanic fan, i think just because it puts me in a trance every tiime i listen to it. It totally feels you are in the middle of the ocean, feeling wave after wave rocking your boat. The female vocals make it really unique as well.

I cant really complain about isis, they are amazing musicians and one of my favorite bands.

2006-12-05 20:17:22
137.   dzzrtRatt
Boy, when I was driving around earlier today, the sports radio in San Diego had Maddux coming to the Padres for sure. I wonder what's going on. Boras' quotes in the Gurnick story sound like the words of a guy who is enjoying making the Dodgers squirm. But his comments about Gagne strike me as ridiculous. I cannot imagine him getting signed this week for a $6 million contract. Not even Jim Bowden is that dumb. Right?
2006-12-05 20:21:24
138.   regfairfield
Since I don't want to study, the current Red Sox payroll (note that I sort of fudged the last few roster slots, but they'd go to similarly priced players) :

Jason Varitek - $10,000,000
Kevin Youkliss - $4,000,000
Dustin Pedroia - $400,000
Julio Lugo - $9,000,000
Mike Lowell - $9,000,000
Manny Ramirez - $18,000,000
Coco Crisp - $3,500,000
J.D. Drew - $14,000,000
David Ortiz - $12,500,000

Daisuke Matsuzaka - $19,000,000 (Pulled out of thin air)
Curt Schilling - $13,000,000
Josh Beckett - $6,000,000
Matt Clement - $9,500,000
Tim Wakefield - $4,000,000

Alex Cora - $2,000,000
Eric Hinskie - $2,812,500
Wily Mo Pena - $2,000,000
David Murphy - $400,000

Jonathan Papelbon - $400,000
Adam Bernero - $450,000
Hideki Okajima - $1,250,000
Julian Tavarez - $3,100,000
Mike Timlin - $2,800,000
John Lester - $400,000
Craig Hansen - $400,000

Total: $147,912,500

2006-12-05 20:23:35
139.   Sam DC
From Vidro will be hard to trade for two reasons: He has two years left a contract worth $16 million, and he had a tough time driving in runs and fielding his position after coming off the disabled list in mid-August.

Well, yeah, you do prefer when a player can drive in runs and field his position, you know, if you're in a position to be choosy.

2006-12-05 20:31:15
140.   DodgerHobbit
138 Good work
Too bad the sox can't salary dump Varitek, that would have more backlash than when depo traded loduca. Only other dumps they can do that isn't Manny would be Clement and Lowell.
2006-12-05 20:36:34
141.   regfairfield
Whoops, just realized I put Youkliss down for four million instead of 400K, total should be $144,312,500.
2006-12-05 20:47:36
142.   Robert Daeley
Dang, that Breaking News box on ESPNews is really depressing. "J.D. Drew & J. Lugo to BOS; Maddux to SD"

So how about taking a risk on Trot Nixon?

2006-12-05 20:48:10
143.   Greg Brock
So Maddux will sign with the Pares for one year at 10 million.

Ned's handling of the Maddux matter could not have been more hilarious.

Personally, I want Sweetbreads Bailey to be our GM

2006-12-05 20:49:21
144.   Greg Brock
Yes, the Michael Pares. He will play Eddie in Eddie and the Cruisers III.

Obviously, I meant Padres.

2006-12-05 20:55:03
145.   Andrew Shimmin
Aren't the Sox trying to shoehorn Papelbon into the rotation? I read yesterday that Lester's cancer was in remission and that he's expected back for spring training.
2006-12-05 20:58:19
146.   natepurcell
description of maddux's deal from henson.

With the Dodgers unwilling to give in to Greg Maddux's contract demands, the San Diego Padres completed a two-year contract that guarantees the 40-year-old future Hall of Famer $16 million and provides incentives that could increase the deal to $20 million.

Maddux's agent, Scott Boras, said the right-hander will get $10 million in 2007 and a guaranteed $6 million in 2008. The incentives kick in when he reaches 160 innings and top out at $3.5 million at 200 innings.

it seems like Colletti held firm to only one year.

2006-12-05 20:59:49
147.   Louis in SF
I think the Maddux signing with San Diego is a case having less to do with money and more to do with Ned being pissed at Boras, Maddux living near San Diego, and on the real baseball front the reality that Maddux is a six-inning pitcher, a good one, and he is staking his claime for Schmidt, who he will probably over pay for.
2006-12-05 21:00:14
148.   Jon Weisman
143 - It appears to be one year with a player option. And arbitration would have bumped up his salary with the Dodgers considerably.
2006-12-05 21:01:41
149.   Terry A
Colletti should've offered arbitration to Maddux, but I'm actually pretty glad that they didn't resign the pitcher.

Add "Shoehorn Papelbon" to the list of great baseball names. "Cancer Lester" would be great, too, were it not for the circumstances.

2006-12-05 21:03:09
150.   Terry A
Er, "Lester Cancer." Only thing worse than a tasteless joke is a botched tasteless joke.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-12-05 21:04:16
151.   DodgerHobbit
His family resides in the las vegas area so san diego is actually slightly farther away from his home than L.A., but it isn't that much of a distance
2006-12-05 21:04:39
152.   dsfan
Ned's negotiating talents on Pierre were highly questionable, ditto his failure to be at all clued into Drew's enhanced market leverage and the potential for his depature, but I am less critical of his handling of Maddux.
Maddux/Boras had a loaded gun and Ned flinched. Understandable. Beyond the exposure of some $12 million to $14 million if aribtration gets offered and accepted, you have the delicate matter of timing. Boras had seven days to accept, then several weeks to drag out negotiations. Seven days might not sound like much to us, but it can be an eterntity to a GM who is simultaneously pursuing agendas on Ramirez/Schmidt and others. And let's say Boras does accept arbitration, it can still be another several weeks before one finds out whether Maddux will command $10 million or $14 million. Credit San Diego, once again, for being astute and prepared.
2006-12-05 21:04:44
153.   Andrew Shimmin
arbitration would have bumped up his salary with the Dodgers considerably.

Do we know this for certain? He had a pretty scrappy first half, is clearly declining, and is old. Are arbitrators as crazy about glossy books as GMs?

2006-12-05 21:08:21
154.   Greg Brock
148 Understood, but Ned's plan to "stockpile pitching and spin it off for power" makes little sense when you could have had Maddux, or at least offered him arbitration.

I just don't like a whole lot of what Ned's done, so at this point, I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on anything.

2006-12-05 21:09:18
155.   dsfan
Mench looks like a better fit than either Gonzo or Manny. He's no sure thing but you're buying low, right-handed power is hard to come by and it's probably a one-year commitment. The scouting reports on his defense are a bit troubling, but the cost shouldn't be high. Maybe you use him and Loney as a quasi-platoonn in LF with Ethier in right. Kemp starts out in Triple-A.
2006-12-05 21:09:27
156.   D4P
Are arbitrators as crazy about glossy books as GMs?

Glossy books are like crack

2006-12-05 21:11:15
157.   Greg Brock
155 If you add Kevin Mench's head to Juan Pierre's head, you end up with two average sized domes.

Mench has got a HEED. That thing is outstanding.

2006-12-05 21:11:43
158.   D4P
Mench! Pants! Now!
2006-12-05 21:12:13
159.   Terry A
Tomorrow's Plaschke column themes:

1) J.D. Drew strikes it rich in Boston, while DePodesta continues to hurt the Dodgers;

2) Greg Maddux chose the Padres because uniform number 31 hasn't been assigned yet, and his feelings are still hurt over Brad Penny's refusal to part with it. (And WHO acquired Brad Penny again?)

3) Julio Lugo, Dodger hero. Acquired to bring defense and character to a Dodger team that had lacked both since Alex Cora was non-tendered. (And who did that?)

2006-12-05 21:12:19
160.   Greg Brock
That thing is like Sputnik. Spherical, yet quite pointy at parts.
2006-12-05 21:12:58
161.   dsfan

I also think Maddux probably realizes that if he has to separate two teams on the margins that Petco Park is a better fit for him than Dodger Stadium. Chavez Ravine isn't the pitcher's park that it was a few years ago and Maddux isn't the pitcher that he used to be. Any fringes benefits could be telling. Maddux considers all of the angles and that likely will be one of them. As good as he is, he will be 41 in April. Petco is a more forgiving park.

2006-12-05 21:14:40
162.   Jon Weisman
158 - A "So I Married an Ax Murderer" reference - right on.
2006-12-05 21:15:31
163.   natepurcell
all this talk about maddux having a home in the san diego area is stretching it.

his home is in dana point. as in, orange county. not san diego county.

/end rant.

2006-12-05 21:17:13
164.   Xeifrank
The jury is no longer out on how Drew would make out on his opting out of his Dodger contract. Let's see, 3 years 33 million or 5 years 70 million, you do the accounting. I don't understand the anger over Drew's decision to opt out, when it became obviously apparent (atleast to his smart agent) that he could easily get a MUCH better contract. If I had any anger over Drew leaving (which I don't, except for the fact that I will miss having a good player on our team) I would focus it on the individual who burned the bridge after Drew's opt out announcement. Just because he may have hinted that he wouldn't opt out at one point, and then changed his mind is nothing to hang over his head. Circumstances change, and in this case the circumstances were greener pastures and thicker wallets. I don't remember Drew ever saying he wouldn't consider resigning with the Dodgers, only that the Dodger owner poured gas all over the bridge and lit it on fire. Good luck to JD in Beantown. You will need it, with those fans and media types.
vr, Xei
2006-12-05 21:17:51
165.   Andrew Shimmin
It's like an orange on a tooth pick.
2006-12-05 21:18:56
166.   D4P
Can Drew succeed in Boston without Kenny Lofton around...?
2006-12-05 21:21:18
167.   saltcreek
163. right next to saltcreek
2006-12-05 21:24:47
168.   still bevens
Ah yes. How quickly we have forgotten the KeLorie...
2006-12-05 21:25:17
169.   dsfan
Mench's career minor-league OPS is a tasty .960 for 385 games, although he has lots of hitter's parks in his past.

Mench/Kemp/Repko/Werth would be the RHB in the corner outfield depth chart to go with LHBs Pierre/Ethier/Loney/Anderson.

2006-12-05 21:27:03
170.   Icaros
What pick number do we get from Boston for Lugo? What pick number do we have already? Why can't I go and find this information myself?
2006-12-05 21:28:44
171.   Eric L
Can I just say this (tongue held firmly in cheek)..

The 2006 Dodgers were a wild card champion. What is our GM doing breaking up a championship team?

2006-12-05 21:32:35
172.   Greg Brock
Sounds like Jürgen Klinsmann is going to take the US Soccer job.

My joy knows no bounds.

2006-12-05 21:32:40
173.   Miss Listening to Vinny
Just saw this on Andrew Jones on Atlanta site: Knowing that the Dodgers might be a possibility, agent Scott Boras hedged a bit when asked whether Andruw Jones could reconsider waiving his no-trade clause.

Looks like might be a trade brewing?

New poster but long-time Dodger fan. When I was growing up, my grandmother and I would watch the Dodger games and during the simulcast, she'd turn Jerry Dogget off on the TV and turn on the radio to listen to the 4th, 5th and 6th. At that point, the dye was cast.

2006-12-05 21:35:18
174.   overkill94
120 Hey, I finally get the Scrubs references now! Thank you marginally legal website that will probably be shut down in a month!

(that's a button with 24 cents written on it)

2006-12-05 21:36:51
175.   Just Blue
154 - Aside from signing Pierre, I like what Ned has done since the season has ended. Most importantly, he hasn't traded any prospects yet, and I think he's trying to look at the long-term success of the club as well as being competitive next year. Hopefully he won't trade any prospects without receiving genuine value in return...but I don't think he even wants to do that. I think Maddux was a fall-back option for Colletti. His preference appears to be to add Schmidt to the rotation, then trade Penny for a decent slugger. His biggest problem right now appears to be that Schmidt is waiting for Zito or Matsuzaka to establish the monetary ceiling before he signs with anyone.

Aside from that, he still has Tomko & Hendrickson that could be packaged with other spare parts to relieve some team of an expensive contract that they don't need (maybe Jenkins, as Nate mentioned earlier). He could probably make that happen pretty quickly unless he perceives that he can get more for them in Spring Training. JMO

2006-12-05 21:37:17
176.   dsfan
What is more valuable? Two high-end draft picks in the hands of Logan White and White's protege or Joel Guzman?
2006-12-05 21:39:59
177.   Eric Enders
173 Is that "Ms. Listening to Vinny" or "I Miss Listening to Vinny"?
2006-12-05 21:41:06
178.   dzzrtRatt
I would just advise Drew not to start his Red Sox career with an 0 for 25.
2006-12-05 21:41:06
179.   Miss Listening to Vinny
Egads. In rush to post, that was "turn on the radio to listen to Vinny in the 4th, 5th and 6th." and that's "die" not dye.

Andruw will be 30 in April -- I don't know that Ned is ready to dance with Boras on the size of THAT potential contract after 2007.

2006-12-05 21:41:32
180.   still bevens
Just had a Lugo flashback. Did anyone else ever notice the strategically placed dirt spot the left shoulder of Lugo's uniform in every single game?

(dang I cant find any pictures on the interweb.. am I crazy?)

2006-12-05 21:41:39
181.   saltcreek
176. Most likely Joel Guzman
2006-12-05 21:42:10
182.   dsfan
175 --

I'm not wild about getting Schmidt. In this market, you will have to overpay and I think you will lose draft picks. I just hope they don't act desperate. The chance to pitch in a DH-less league in a pretty good pitcher's park for a pretty good team should be worth something to most pitchers. They won't get Schmidt to agree to some bargain but need to have some sense of proportion (none was evident in the Pierre deal). I also wouldn't mind seeing them going the Furcal route and dangling their best three-year deal. One positive if Conte should give them good info on Schmidt.

2006-12-05 21:42:34
183.   Miss Listening to Vinny
177 That would be I -- hmm, maybe a better screen name...
2006-12-05 21:43:20
184.   Greg Brock
180 It was probably a routine where he pulled his left sleeve up before settling in. With the pine tar, it probably left a spot on the same place each game.

Routines. Ballplayers love those routines.

2006-12-05 21:44:25
185.   Greg Brock
183 That would be I -- hmm, maybe a better screen name...

I recommend Sloppy Thurston.

But keep your mits off of Sweetbreads Bailey.

2006-12-05 21:45:06
186.   still bevens
Lugo's was pretty interesting. He would never take a warm up swing or move his bat into the zone. He would just settle in, raise up his sleeve and kinda glare at the pitcher. And in our case, either ground out or bat in one of his 12 RBIs when he was with us.
2006-12-05 21:45:33
187.   Eric Enders
Players who use a lot of pine tar, or are simply filthy animals, like Craig Biggio, will usually have a spot in the same place from where their bat hits the shoulder on the backswing.

Good thing Biggio's a lot more charming than that Arnold on Green Acres. Not sure about Lugo, though.

2006-12-05 21:46:10
188.   DodgerHobbit
If I remember correctly, he "picks" his front shoulder every at-bat kind of like Nomar. So if he likes to get his hands or batting gloves dirty with infield clay for extra grip that would explain it.
2006-12-05 21:46:57
189.   Greg Brock
187 We'd have to be talking about one charming pig.

Dogs got personality. Personality goes a long way.

2006-12-05 21:47:02
190.   DodgerHobbit
188 i guess i type really slow :)
2006-12-05 21:51:12
191.   Eric Enders
189 Indeed. A winning personality got at least one "Doggie" elected to the Hall of Fame.
2006-12-05 21:58:58
192.   Eric Stephen
170 As a result of losing Julio Lugo, LA gets Boston's 1st rounder, #20. LA also picks at #22 as of now, but hopefully that pick will go to the Giants when Schmidt becomes a Dodger.

The only way the Dodgers wouldn't get a 1st rounder from Boston is if the Red Sox also signed Zito, Suppan, Todd Walker, or Schmidt, the only 4 arb-offered free agents that rank higher than Lugo.

Also, the Dodgers get a supplemental pick (in between the 1st and 2nd rounds. Right now, the pick is the 11th supplemental pick (#41 overall) but that will obviously change after all the free agents sign. Right now, there are 24 picks in the supplemental round (including Arizona's unsigned 2005 #1 Max Scherzer) with the potential for up to 18 more!! That's a huge supplemental round.

I'm still fumed for two reasons that the Padres allegedly offered their 6 free agents arbitration on the condition that they not accept:

1) is this even legal or fair to the other teams?
2) why didn't the Dodgers think of this, and at least do it with Lofton (a type B, whose arb status wouldn't affect his market since the signing team wouldn't give up a pick)

2006-12-05 22:01:42
193.   trainwreck
When I was young the family would make do the whole "Head" routine from So I Married an Axe Murderer.
2006-12-05 22:03:46
194.   Anthony Ohm
By the way, which of our top prospects were the doing of Paul Depodesta?
2006-12-05 22:04:38
195.   adraymond
Perhaps the Padres arbitration coup was Depo doing. He's got his eye on all those high school pitchers.
2006-12-05 22:04:52
196.   trainwreck
DePo got us Werth and Navarro.
2006-12-05 22:08:03
197.   robohobo
Don't talk about Mench's big heed. he'll just go cry in his huge pillow.
2006-12-05 22:11:59
198.   regfairfield
194 While Logan White had more to do with this, here's big guys drafted in the DePo era:

Justin Orenduff
Blake Dewitt
Scott Elbert
Blake Johnson (lost in the Odalis trade)
Josh Bell
Josh Wall
Jonathan Meloan

2006-12-05 22:12:37
199.   StolenMonkey86
159 I think Plaschke even has the Wikipedia skills to know that 31 is retired for Dave Winfield.
2006-12-05 22:13:09
200.   CanuckDodger
181 -- Joel Guzman, you say? I think whoever White picks at #20 next year will have a good chance of being a better prospect than Guzman is NOW. Guzman's stock has fallen a lot.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-12-05 22:18:14
201.   CanuckDodger
194 -- I think his question was about which prospects DePo could personally take credit for, which is a bit of an unfair question unless the GM is acquiring prospects in trades the way Colletti acquired Ethier. Navarro was a "DePo prospect," but he's gone now.
2006-12-05 22:19:55
202.   Icaros
192 Thanks.
2006-12-05 22:28:22
203.   Steve
181 -- not just most likely but definitely so.
2006-12-05 22:37:30
204.   Robert Fiore
The Dodgers' Drew contract turns out to be a two year deal with a risk that they'd be stuck paying a gimp $11 million a year for three additional years. The downside didn't happen. The Red Sox deal shows that the upside (that he'd stay another three effective years at $11 million per) was not a realistic possibility.
2006-12-05 22:38:09
205.   CanuckDodger
203 -- Do you have an argument defending that position? If any team that had Joel Guzman could trade him for a draft pick in the Top 20, they'd probably do it. That's without Logan White being the guy making the pick, and not counting the first round supplemental pick.
2006-12-05 22:39:47
206.   Xeifrank
The Padres may have bolstered their rotation with the Maddux signing. The Padres have a good bullpen so they can probably absorb the extra innings in his starts. But I just don't see the Padres scoring many runs with that lineup and that pitchers ballpark.
vr, Xei
2006-12-05 22:42:10
207.   Steve
The argument is self-evident. For the same reason that I'd rather have fifty cents in my pocket now than a dollar in five years. And I don't even know if I've got a dollar. But I don't have any problem with Logan White or anything else, so try to refrain from using the word stathead in your response.
2006-12-05 22:50:13
208.   Anthony Ohm
198. Thank you.
2006-12-05 22:53:08
209.   Xeifrank
207. But according to Canuck it's all about intangibles. You know, the things that one cannot define and measure. You can't lose with an argument like that. :)
vr, Xei
2006-12-05 22:54:20
210.   saltcreek
207. Guzman is still only what 22? If he ever cuts down on his strike outs he is going to be a force in the majors. He just had one down year last year.
2006-12-05 23:00:02
211.   CanuckDodger
207 -- Well, the analogy you use is one that is often used to tout the merits of any "proven major leaguer"(TM) over any prospect, so you can imagine what I think of that analogy. Since Guzman isn't even MLB ready for the Devil Rays, he isn't in anybody's "pocket," and if some scouts have him pegged right, he may never be MLB ready, while a player drafted #20 next year may help in the majors before five years. Billingsley was drafted #24 in 2003 and was contributing in the majors in three years. Had Billingsley been a college player instead of a HS guy, maybe he could have made it up sooner. Anyway, I have no problem saying that I would rather have the #20 pick in next year's draft than Guzman. I am sure Logan White feels the same way. (Smiley Face)
2006-12-05 23:04:36
212.   Greg Brock
Had Billingsley been a college pitcher, his shoulder would have been shredded by a college coach who needs to win, and usually doesn't care about a player's MLB prospects.

Since I was never big on Guzman, I would rather have the draft pick. But that does not mean that the deal was a good one.

2006-12-05 23:07:11
213.   Greg Brock
That's kind of unfair to college coaches. His shoulder may have been fine. It might have been his elbow that got torn up instead.
2006-12-05 23:09:55
214.   Steve
That the analogy is misused by the same group of people that can't grasp relatively simple principles of valuation like present value and not paying mediocre centerfielders $44 million is none of my concern.

As to your valuation of Joel Guzman, it is obviously faulty. He doesn't have to be MLB ready, and may never be to have value right now as a AAA prospect. A theoretical draft pick has to make it through three or four levels just to get to AAA and attain similar value (and that is years down the road). Your valuation does not, apparently, take that into account. There are other flaws, but that will do for now. Billingsley is a non-sequitur. It is conceded that some prospects become major leaguers. I assume it is conceded in return that some don't.

I have no doubt that Logan White and you would rather have the #20 pick than Joel Guzman. But that is vanity, not valuation. The proper way to look at it is that as long as we have the #20 pick instead of Joel Guzman, we should be glad Logan White is making it.

2006-12-05 23:18:17
215.   CanuckDodger
209 -- I'm not "all about the intangibles," so please don't categorize me as such. Stats, scouting reports, and character stuff all matter to some degree. If you want stats, there is Guzman's .193/.228/.336 line playing for Tampa Bay's Triple A affiliate. Sure, just 88 AB's, and if the scouting reports indicated the stats were misleading for some reason I would reserve judgment. I don't think you can get around the fact that Guzman's prospect status took a huge hit in 2006. Now if you want to say we sold low on him, fine. But all we are arguing about now is the relative merit of Guzman and the #20 draft pick next year. That's all. It's not about whether the Lugo trade was a good idea.
2006-12-05 23:25:43
216.   Steve
Even if conceded, it doesn't change anything. Your argument is the equivalent of picking up a Choose Your Own Adventure book and opening it to the last page.
2006-12-05 23:29:06
217.   Bob Timmermann
Barry Zito's shoulder and elbow seem to have held up fine under the strain of pitching in college.
2006-12-05 23:29:50
218.   CanuckDodger
214 -- If you think that the question whether Guzman can be a major leaguer, let alone a good one, is irrelevent to his value, then I am afraid you are the one who is making a mistake in assessing value. Closeness to the majors counts for something, but it is secondary to ceiling, potential. A rookie ball player fresh out HS who is considered to have impact player potential is far more valuable than a Triple A player a couple false moves away from being Jason Grabowski.
2006-12-05 23:31:47
219.   natepurcell
The Cardinals are making a strong run at free-agent right-hander Jason Schmidt while continuing to express interest in other free-agent pitchers, according to major-league sources.

I just dont see the cardinals outbidding the dodgers or mariners for schmidt.

2006-12-05 23:31:52
220.   Disabled List
172 As a result of losing Julio Lugo, LA gets Boston's 1st rounder, #20. LA also picks at #22 as of now, but hopefully that pick will go to the Giants when Schmidt becomes a Dodger.

Is that #22 pick the Dodgers' original 1st round slot? Shouldn't it go to the Cubs for the Juan Pierre signing, or was he not offered arbitration?

As far as the Juan Guzman vs. 20th pick in 2007 draft debate, I wonder if people aren't forgetting the 80s and 90s, when virtually EVERY SINGLE high Dodger draft pick flamed out in spectacular fashion. A nice draft position is not automatically a gimme.

Yes, we have Logan White now, and his draft-fu is impeccable, but he does not walk on water. Considering the vagaries of chance and fate that come into play during a prospect's development, Logan's due for a bad draft. Or as we like to say, "regression to the mean."

2006-12-05 23:32:19
221.   Greg Brock
213 That is true. Barry Zito has held up fine.
2006-12-05 23:33:31
222.   natepurcell
The Dodgers, Tigers and White Sox are among the many teams pursuing Baldelli; the Tigers are interested in all three Rays outfielders, presumably with the idea of trading Craig Monroe or Marcus Thames.

This doesnt even make sense.

2006-12-05 23:35:13
223.   natepurcell
ogan's due for a bad draft. Or as we like to say, "regression to the mean."

you can say 2005 was his bad draft. So he had his hiccup and will be fine going forward :)

also, pierre was a type b FA, so the cubs only get a first round comp pick.

2006-12-05 23:37:38
224.   Greg Brock
Sign Juan Pierre for 44 million dollars and then get Baldelli, a far superior, younger, and cheaper player?

That defies logic. I bet Ned tries to do it.

2006-12-05 23:38:04
225.   trainwreck
Nate, I hope Nip/Tuck is not ending.
2006-12-05 23:38:27
226.   Steve
A rookie ball player fresh out HS who is considered to have impact player potential is far more valuable than a Triple A player a couple false moves away from being Jason Grabowski.

Your use of the passive voice here was wise. I rest my case.

2006-12-05 23:40:03
227.   Eric Enders
220 A quick Google search doesn't reveal whether the Cubs offered Pierre arbitration or not, but it's a moot point anyway as he was a Type B free agent and thus would not cost the Dodgers a pick anyway. The Dodgers still have the #22 pick unless they sign Schmidt.
2006-12-05 23:41:13
228.   trainwreck
I hope Ned does not take this no power thing overboard and start dealing prospects to acquire more CFs.
2006-12-05 23:43:02
229.   natepurcell
Nate, I hope Nip/Tuck is not ending.

Nah I dont think it is. Sean's just going through another mid life crisis. The full circle of james to escobar was crazy. i cant wait for the finale next week.

2006-12-05 23:43:35
230.   natepurcell

CFers is his new SS fetish.

2006-12-05 23:43:46
231.   Greg Brock
Baldelli has some power, and it should keep developing. He doesn't walk a whole lot, so that's a bit of an issue, but he's got talent.
2006-12-05 23:47:58
232.   trainwreck
He did have a nice power increase this year, but yeah his patience scares me.
2006-12-05 23:48:14
233.   trainwreck
It would not have scared me as much if he was our actual CF!!
2006-12-05 23:52:42
234.   Anthony Ohm
Next years' leading dodger power hitter will be Wilson Betemit. 30 home runs is a strong possibility.
2006-12-05 23:57:24
235.   natepurcell

30 homeruns would be alot more then 2006's team leader.

2006-12-06 00:01:41
236.   natepurcell
so this..

basically says manny will be traded to the mariners or dodgers by wednesday.

in spanish.

2006-12-06 00:03:19
237.   trainwreck
I heard the Red Sox wanted Adam Jones.
2006-12-06 00:04:08
238.   trainwreck
Well it is now Wednesday...
2006-12-06 00:04:14
239.   GMac In The 909
220 Wait, Logan White can't walk on water?
2006-12-06 00:04:44
240.   GMac In The 909
236 Wednesday, huh? A que hora?
2006-12-06 00:08:03
241.   ToyCannon
Okay I had to read all the posts so I wouldn't repost something but check out this link to the BP unfiltered comments. It is Nate Silver showing the Pecota for JD Drew in Boston. If he comes close to that projection, RedSox Nation will be a bitter place.
This is part of the free stuff

2006-12-06 00:08:15
242.   Uncle Miltie
236- so ESPN, Sportscenter, and almost every media outlet say that Manny won't be traded, while ESPN's Spanish site says he will be dealt tomorrow? I don't even know how to respond to this.

I'm just going to pray that we get Schmidt and that I do well on my finals.

2006-12-06 00:09:41
243.   natepurcell

for brad penny and two prospects too!

2006-12-06 00:10:09
244.   Eric Enders
220 "Yes, we have Logan White now, and his draft-fu is impeccable"

So that's what he told Hochevar!

2006-12-06 00:11:35
245.   trainwreck
Clearly ESPN sees the future and wants to appease the right market.
2006-12-06 00:13:51
246.   trainwreck
It says the Red Sox get Beltre, Sexson, Putz and Soriano. Well I am going to say this is garbage.
2006-12-06 00:14:11
247.   ToyCannon
Last I looked JtD had a sub 300 slug% in the winter league. No position prospect has ever dropped from a top 20 prospect to a nonentity as quickly as he did in recent memory. I'd lay some strong odds that he will not even make anyone's top 100 this spring.

Kevin Mench blows. Almost all his power last summer came during the 8 game homer streak. Take that away and he was butt ugly. He hit only 5 homers in 119 games after that streak. One homer in over 100 at bats in the NL.
I'd rather have the big swinging Jenkins at 7 Mill then anyone else I've heard mentioned. His career line of 279/350/499 works for me if Ned must have a vet.

2006-12-06 00:14:33
248.   Eric Enders
The Googlized version of 236:

MIAMI -- The Red Averages of Boston and the agents of the stellar Manny gardener Ramirez worked Tuesday laboriously to complete the details of a change that would take to Dominican to the Dodgers of Los Angeles or the Sailors of Seattle, said a source of whole credit to

The movement, that contradicts one recent declaration of manager of Boston, Terry Francona, could complete Wednesday, assured the source.

"Something great could happen Wednesday. It would surprise to me that Ramirez is not changed to Seattle or east Los Angeles day", said the source.

The Dodgers would yield the right Brad Penny and a pair of prospectos, whereas the Sailors have offered to Adrian Beltré and Richie Sexson, but Boston insists on including to one of two throwers, between lock J.J. Putz and the preinn Rafael Soriano.

According to the source, as much the Dodgers as the Sailors has accepted to exert one of the two options of 20 million that the contract of Ramirez contains.

Ramirez will gain 38 million dollars by next the two years and could add other 40 million by the options of the 2009-10. Ramirez would approve without conditions the change if one of the equipment accedes to exert the two options.

"I do not believe that he happens", he said to Francona Tuesday to a transmitter of Boston before the perspective to lose to one of the best batters of the Great Leagues.

"It is the greatest part of our devastating alignment", added Francona.

"I cannot comment rumors. It is better than we hope to see if it passes something", said to Gene Matos, one of the agents of Ramirez and one of the few informers whom the player has. Ramirez, of 34 years, bats,314 with 470 home runs and 1.516 races towed in 14 seasons in the Great Leagues. The Dominican one divides equally 39 impelled home runs and 123 since it signed a contract of 140 million by eight years with Boston before the season of the 2001.

The player has protested to be changed last the three at least to invier to us.

"Manny very would be disappointed if it is not changed. That also happened in the previous years, but now Boston is more urgent to leave him", said the source.

2006-12-06 00:16:25
249.   regfairfield
Motion to forever refer to the Mariners as the "Sailors" and the Sox as the "Red Averages".

All in favor?

2006-12-06 00:17:43
250.   trainwreck
Count me in.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-12-06 00:17:45
251.   Eric Enders
246 It actually says Seattle is offering Beltre and Sexson, and the Sox are insisting on adding either Putz or Soriano.
2006-12-06 00:18:28
252.   Greg Brock
Google-translated Spanish to English is elegant.

I believe that all the persons should talk in such a type of way as the translator shows us to have spoken in the fashion.

2006-12-06 00:18:49
253.   ToyCannon
Dewan has Jenkins as his 4th best fielding RF. Trot Nixon was 3rd.
Whatever happened to Hidalgo?
2006-12-06 00:18:50
254.   GMac In The 909
248 If a pair of east Los Angeles day prospectos = Broxton and LaRoche = no bueno

Come on, Sailors!

2006-12-06 00:19:37
255.   natepurcell
i really wonder what source Enrique Rojas has that rosenthal, heyman, gammons, etc do not have.
2006-12-06 00:19:59
256.   GMac In The 909
249 Agreed.

252 Did Borat translate that?

2006-12-06 00:21:19
257.   natepurcell

Jenkins would be a great buy low choice. he was bad enough last year and expensive enough this year to not cost top prospects and he is still young enough to gamble on last year just being a fluke down year.

2006-12-06 00:21:34
258.   trainwreck
Why would the Red Sox want Beltre?
2006-12-06 00:22:10
259.   GMac In The 909
258 Do you mean the Red Averages?
2006-12-06 00:23:25
260.   trainwreck
Why would the Red Averages want Beltre?

Heck, I think we can offer Penny, Stults, and a shoe and have a better deal then taking back all that money.

2006-12-06 00:23:59
261.   Uncle Miltie
From Gurnick's article:
Boras also said Atlanta outfielder Andruw Jones, a player the Dodgers have discussed internally for a possible trade, told him he wants to play the 2007 season in Atlanta. Jones, in the final year of his contract, can veto any trade.

From the Braves beat writer (about an hour later)
But when asked if there were any circumstances that could lead Jones to waive his no-trade clause, Boras seemingly provided some indication that the Braves could be working a deal that could cause the Gold Glove center fielder reason to weigh this decision.

"Obviously there is new information," Boras said. "In this situation, it's something that Andruw has control over. I would imagine since his home's [in Atlanta] and his family's [in Atlanta] that he will be [in Atlanta] this year."

There is some thought that Jones would potentially waive his no-trade clause if he had the opportunity to be reunited with Rafael Furcal in Los Angeles. But there's also a belief that the Dodgers would be hesitant to make this deal that seemingly would make them overwhelming favorites to win the National League West.
I love the way the writer worded that last sentence...

So Ned is looking at Baldelli, Jones, and Wells. How many center fielders do we need? Is he already trying to correct his mistake (signing Pierre). It makes absolutely no sense to go after another center fielder unless the Dodgers plan on locking up the new one and trading Pierre next offseason.

2006-12-06 00:25:54
262.   trainwreck
Ned is intent on ruining my week by trading prospects, isn't he?
2006-12-06 00:27:59
263.   GMac In The 909
260 Perhaps the Red Averages have developed an overwhelming fetish of ex-east Los Angeles day players.
2006-12-06 00:29:43
264.   Anthony Ohm
Manny Ramirez as a 2007 Dodger: the most home runs he could hit would be 36 (possibly 37). I think its easier for a lefty to hit home runs than a righty at dodger stadium. And a 2008 LA Ramirez could not surpass his 2007 home runs totals. Whereas, a 2008 Wilson Betemit (if they can retain him.) could surpass 34 home runs. He'll be 28 years old. The strongest year.
2006-12-06 00:29:49
265.   ToyCannon
Thanks Eric that was a great read.

On the surface that seems to much for Manny but what if they got the player names right but a 3 way is how it is going to work out.
Just to play with this.
Dodgers get Manny/Beltre
Seattle gets LaRoche/Penny/Loney
Boston gets Sexson/Soriano

Seattle agrees not to pursue Schmidt and we sign Schmidt.

Okay, it is late and I'm off to bed and this will probably look very stupid tomorrow.

2006-12-06 00:43:16
266.   Eric Enders
Selections from this thread, translated into French and then Spanish and then back into English:

206. Xeifrank
Parents could have supported its rotation with the company/signature of Maddux. Parents have a good enclosure who can thus absorb probably the additional returns of the beater in their principles. But just I do not see Parents the marking of many races with this formation and only stage of the baseball of jarros. vr, Xei

210. saltcreek
207. Is Guzman always only what 22? If it never reduced its exits of strike it will be a force in the commanders. He straightens had the inferior year the last year.

211. CanuckDodger
207 -- Since ready Guzman is not equal MLB for rays of the devil, she is not in quienquiera "pocket," and if some explorers do the affluent bolt to you, she can never be ready MLB, whereas #20 written by the player who the next year can help in the commanders before five years.

220. The list harmed
Is this selection #22 cracks of the round one of the original one of embusqués 1ros? Does not have to go to the animals for Juan Pierre who signs, or arbitration was not offered? As soon as Juan Guzman contradicts the twentieth selection during the discussion of 2007 contours, I wonder itself if people do not forget the Eighties and years 90, when practically EACH high SIMPLE selection of the contour of embusqué was flamed outside spectacular way. An pleasant position of the contour is not automatically gimme.

229. natepurcell
Nate, I hope that the point of contacto/de the doblez does not finish. Nah I does not think that it is. In order to happen hardly of They are by another crisis of half of the life. The complete circle of the James with field of broom was insano.

241. ToyCannon
the authorization I had to thus read all repost I of posts not something but to verify this connection with the not-filtered commentaries of BP. It is the silverplated aspect of silver of Nate who Pecota for JD drew in Boston. If it comes near this projection, the nation of RedSox will be a bitter place.

247. ToyCannon
Blowings of Kevin Mench. Almost all his energy the summer last wine during the scratch of Homer from 8 games. To clear that and was it extreme ugly. Shootings with the goal in 119 then games pressed only 5 that flute. Homer in more than 100 with the beaters in the NL. Great Jenkins of oscillation 7 with the mill would have something then does not matter who who I heard mentioned differently. Its line of the race of 279/350/499 works for me if Ned must have a veterinary surgeon.

2006-12-06 00:44:11
267.   Greg Brock
265 Unless Frank sold a few lots, started a new cable station for Dodger games, and auctioned off the Hope Diamond, I can't see getting Beltre, Manny, and Schmidt.
2006-12-06 00:44:17
268.   trainwreck
That was a lot of effort and you should be commended.
2006-12-06 00:45:38
269.   Greg Brock
My new band name is going to be The Blowings of Kevin Mench.
2006-12-06 00:46:38
270.   trainwreck
Oh gee no Beltre.
2006-12-06 00:53:21
271.   xaphor
269. Great Jenkins of Oscillation

That is a band name.

2006-12-06 00:57:18
272.   Greg Brock
I was looking back through that, and there are like ten or fifteen band names in there.

Field of Broom is pretty cool.
Affluent Bolt rocks.
Circle of the James is very college radio.

All band names must be created through Google Translator.

2006-12-06 01:03:24
273.   Eric Enders
272 The Animals For Juan Pierre
Pleasant Position of the Contour
Scratch of Homer
Silverplated Aspect
2006-12-06 01:05:27
274.   trainwreck
Pleasant Position of the Contour and Silverplated Aspect are great mathcore band names.
2006-12-06 01:06:24
275.   Greg Brock
That's it, I'm putting out a memo.

Re: Band names.

2006-12-06 01:12:20
276.   xaphor
I forget whose (D4P?), but someone's personal favourite:
Do Not Forget the Eighties
2006-12-06 01:14:21
277.   trainwreck
The Animals For Juan Pierre probably suck.
2006-12-06 01:16:43
278.   trainwreck
I heard they overcharge for their shows too.
2006-12-06 01:22:41
279.   xaphor
You don't like the classic "A Center Fielder with two hats"?

I've been through the season with a center fielder with two hats
It felt no good to be out of the plate
In the season you can remember your OBP
cause Pierre's one to give you the pain

2006-12-06 01:24:16
280.   ToyCannon
If nothing else266 is going to make a lot of people laugh tomorrow morning. It must make Jon's next book. Now we know how band names evolve. In 2 1/2 years this has to be one of my favorite posts.
2006-12-06 01:25:05
281.   xaphor
All that and I get the wrong bloody band :[
2006-12-06 01:26:49
282.   xaphor
There is an outfielder in Los Angeles
Call it Juan Pierre
And it's been the ruin
Of many a poor team
And me, oh lord, I'm one
2006-12-06 05:27:57
283.   GIDP
The Blowings of Kevin Mench

2006 vs lefty:

career vs lefty:

2006-12-06 05:40:09
284.   Jon Weisman
266 et al - Hysterical.
2006-12-06 05:46:32
285.   weatherman
JD Drew does not like baseball. I was just speaking with a friend of mine who works for the Braves and he was telling that while Drew was with the Braves, it was clear that he simply doesn't like the game. He is not "soft," he just hates his job. I think that this explains a lot about Drew. He can make a lot of money playing baseball and therefore has no reason to quit, but if you had a job you hated, you would be a lot more likely to take sick days, right? Same thing here. Drew simply does not enjoy playing the game.
2006-12-06 05:49:04
286.   StolenMonkey86
261 - How many center fielders do we need?

Center fielders are the new shortstop.

2006-12-06 05:51:22
287.   Claire Malone-Evans
Just heard a report that the Cubs are offering Schmidt a 4 year/60 million contract. I hope the Dodgers don't try and top those insane numbers.
2006-12-06 06:20:41
288.   Sam DC
Yesterday, I linked some blog posts debating the Nationals "Plan" to develop the minors and essential write off the 2007 major league season. Today, Tom Boswell enters the debate in pretty sharp fashion.

Money paragaph, with just a killer final line:

Few in Washington blame the Nats for not competing on Soriano's $136 million contract. However, for one-twentieth that amount, the Nats could shore up their pitching. If they don't, the Nats are playing a high-stakes game in which they bet that Washington fans are sophisticated or patient enough -- or gullible enough -- to embrace a horrible team that didn't have to be bad. The Nats have a respectable everyday lineup and a solid bullpen. If the Nats go 56-106, it was a war of choice.

2006-12-06 06:36:06
289.   D4P
I will laugh if the price for Manny goes up over time, rather than down. Ned has Hand: he ought to use it...
2006-12-06 06:56:40
290.   blutomania

Was that through the English-Spanish-English translation cycle? I hope so, because I can't make heads or tails of it.


2006-12-06 06:58:26
291.   adraymond
I would like to nominate myself to play tamborine for Plesant Position of the Contour.
2006-12-06 07:19:03
292.   DodgerBakers
266 and following: Thanks for a great laugh this morning!

261-How many centerfielders do we need?
Perhaps Colletti never intended for Pierre to play center and wants to stick him in left and sign/trade for a good centerfielder.


"Rays of the Devil" has a strange gothic flavor to it.

2006-12-06 07:56:44
293.   Penarol1916
288. Hey Sam, do you ever read Dan Steinberg's DC Sports Bog on the
2006-12-06 07:58:19
294.   Daniel Zappala
248 I know exactly how Terry Francona feels, because we have already lost Drew, and he was "the greatest part of our devastating alignment".
2006-12-06 08:23:08
295.   Sam DC
Juan Gone rumors flying:

Does wanting to show up your old team count as "really wanting to be a Dodger" for Ned purposes?

2006-12-06 08:26:58
296.   Bob Timmermann
You have your Gonzalezes mixed up there Sam.
2006-12-06 08:30:30
297.   ToyCannon
Alot of power righties crush LHP, the problem is when they are totally ineffective against RHP which is 3/4 of the league. If they are paid at the Saenz rate then no problem but you can only carry so many lefty mashers on a modern day lineup that has 12 pitchers.
2006-12-06 08:39:08
298.   ToyCannon
BP has a great Juan Pierre career breakdown. Must read for Dodger fans who want to be depressed as they start the day.
2006-12-06 08:48:03
299.   Warren

JD Drew leaves, we free up $11+ mil per year and spend almost all of it on Juan Pierre.

We get Randy Wolf and let Maddux walk.

We sign Saito who has barely a few months of proven solid work and now Gagne seems to be gone.

Julio Lugo.. ok well I'm fine with that one based on how he performed.

But seriously, Uncle Ned when are you going to throw us a bone? Would taking a $4-$5 mil risk on Gagne be all that bad? I mean we rolled the dice on Sele, Tomko, Hendrickson, now Wolf, etc. Take a shot.

2006-12-06 08:55:45
300.   StolenMonkey86
Forget if this was mentioned or now, but from the Times:

Manager Grady Little said he is considering batting shortstop Rafael Furcal third in a lineup that would have new addition Juan Pierre batting leadoff, followed by catcher Russell Martin. Furcal had 15 home runs among his 56 extra-base hits and batted .346 with runners in scoring position.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-12-06 08:56:07
301.   StolenMonkey86
and I have no idea why I can't get the Daily News' site
2006-12-06 09:08:36
302.   StolenMonkey86
Furcal's Splits:

Bases empty: .296/.361/.444, 46 bb, 70k, 453 AB
Runners on: .308/.388/.448; 27 bb, 28k, 201 AB

Bases empty: .287/.346/.419 233 bb, 403 k, 2652 AB
Runners on: .286/.362/.406 160 bb, 170 k, 1260 AB

While he really should be a 2 hitter, it is remarkable that Furcal walks so much more (0.76 ISO patience vs 0.59) with runners on.

2006-12-06 10:52:24
303.   Gen3Blue
Just back from a cruise and glad to see we haven't yet given all are young talent for a power hitter who can do nothing else.
But there is always tomorrow.

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