I'm not sure I understand the Gagne money connection here. The Dodgers were reportedly willing to dedicate $10 million to him (given incentives being met), which had nothing to do these guys.

1 - It seems it would have taken X more dollars for the Dodgers to sign Gagne. The money currently being allocated to Beimel and Hendrickson could have covered or help to cover X.

2 X being approximately $1 million, if some reports out of Texas are accurate. Who knows if Boras+Gagne checked back with Ned or not before signing, or if as you say Gagne wanted to come back at all.

I would rather have an ailing Gagne than a well Hendrickson and Beimel. But since Gagne's guy is, as Bill Madden of the New York Daily News calls him, Scott "The Avenging Agent" Boras, it's hard to know just what he wanted from Ned. I'm sad to see him go. I'm sad to see Werth and Hall go with nothing coming in return.

Why would it be a downgrade to trade Penny? Doesn't it depend on what the trade is? Yeah, if all we got was Julio Lugo and a bag of burnt popcorn then yes it would be a downgrade. But if he and Betemit were traded for Scott Rolen it wouldn't be. Not that either trade is plausible, just that you have to know what the trade is before saying it is either a downgrade or an upgrade.
vr, Xei

I really don't understand the infatuation with Werth. Of course, I had a short infatuation with barbershop quartets a few months ago, so, you know, it's cool.

If we're sitting here begging for Loney and Kemp to get shots in the outfield, it's safe to say Werth never had a chance.

To answer thinkingblue's question from the last thread about guitars:

I also enjoy playing heavy stuff and I've been using a Jackson for about 5 years now. It's got nice low action and a pretty thin fretboard to allow for faster playing. Mine was in the range you mentioned as are many of Jackson's mid-range models. Other good shredding guitars are BC Rich and Ibanez. Enjoy!

I'm kind of upset about Werth.

Even during his half strength 2005, he was probably about as good as Juan Pierre. And what could he possibly have commanded in arb--1 million? Tops, I would think.

The Dodger outfield is very lefty heavy, and Werth could have been part of a nice platoon. Maybe they felt that was too much money for a guy with uncertain health. Maybe Werth forced the issue so he could become a free agent and a get a three year $19 million dollar deal from the Orioles or something.

But I think this is unfortunate. The Dodgers are not loaded with power, and he was a potential source for a relatively low cost.

6 Would've been nice to give him a chance, but I never really looked at him as a viable option in the outfield. The guy hasn't played in about a year and a half, I have a feeling he's gonna be reeeeally rusty at the beginning with his power really sapped.

Werth had 627 at bats. Perhaps not a fair chance, but a chance nonetheless.
vr, Xei

This is an hourglass market-heavy at the top and bottom with big contracts and pre-arb cheapies. Guys in years 4-6 are at risk for non-tendering. And there's so much pressure on the 40 man rosters for the middle guys that there is no secondary market...hence GMs have to non-tender at the deadline...Giles, Hall should have trade value but don't.

Apparently Hendrickson, aka Lurch, as an LHP, is worth the roster spot and the $4mil because of a percieved trade value.

Ned did what he had to do...See ya Jayson W...Texas no doubt...

Werth rolls a toohpick in his mouth while he bats, he is like a character in Major League.

No one wants to bite on my "Colletti is just dumping DePodesta acquisitions as quickly as possible" theory?

Well, I'm not too serious about it, but it is interesting. Some of Colletti's biggest head scratchers have been young DePo guys with big upside (Werth, Choi, Navarro, maybe Penny, even Drew, whose upside was health).

I can't blame a GM who prefers, other things equal, to have a team full of "his" guys, so that he's totally responsible for whatever happens, good or bad. But if I were Derek Lowe, I'd be looking over my shoulder.

12 Rachel Phelps?

What is 5 in response to?

13--

I don't want this to stir another Choi debate but I disagree that Choi had or has big upside. I didn't like his swing or his footwork. Nor do I think Navarro has big upside. I would have been a little more creative on Werth but it does appear they ran out of room there.

brad wilkerson was non-tendered.

is it too late to undo the gonzalez signing and snatch up wilkerson for half the price?

This is a little off topic but...is Marcus Giles possibly the best 4-6 year player ever non-tendered?

I don't know what his defense is like, but he runs pretty well, had an off year but can hit, is 28.

I wonder how much he will get on the market?

15. A carry over from the end of the previous thread. The discussion got cut off by the new post. Sorry for the confusion.
vr, Xei

17
Ugggggh.

18
I don't think Marcus Giles is quite in the same category as David Ortiz.

Oh come on, there has been no greater non-tender than David Eckstein, greatest player in the history of the galaxy.

Plus, David Ortiz never wrote a book.

22
Or is involved in professional wrestling.

21--oh, yeah, I guess I forgot about David Ortiz. Wow, the Twins really did dump him, huh?

Marcus Giles, second greatest non-tender in history!

Ortiz was also a PTBNL from Seattle.

I think it is my duty here to defend David Eckstein at every chance just to be edgy.

Well, Eckstein does play in a city that I fill fight to the death to defend.

Your move, Timmermann.

26 Ecksty?

22

Can't you stat-heads compliment a gutsy ballplayer without the requisite back hand?

Everyone knows Eckstein is the greatest player in the history of the universe.

27
St. Louis is a nice place to be from. I suppose that toasted ravioli is a staple at the Brock dinner table.

Even Tommy Craggs likes David Eckstein.

31 If that was supposed to help Eckstein's cause...

Toasted ravioli sounds good. Never had it. Sounds healthy, too.

I don't want to start another Choi debate, so I am going to state an opinion about him with no basis in fact.

18

Bill James expects Giles to rebound with an OPS near .800.

Quite simply, I agree with Jon if we have all the information we need to decide. I'd rather have Gagne, but I suspect the incentives were the bigger problem in the contract offer, not the difference between 4 and 6 guaranteed.

Beimel and Hendrickson are replaceable parts for $5 million. Biemel more replaceable than Hendrickson. Big Bird actually pitched well out of the pen, even striking out a few (he has had trouble throwing hard enough to strike guys out when he has started).

Big Bird fits the mold of a sixth starter, a decent long reliever who can chew up some innings when Fatdalis (oops, he's gone. i forget because we are still paying for him!) or Billz or Kuo get lit up, he can go four or five.

Wasn't Biemel the Tom Martin of 2006? Isn't he still out there as a FA? Wouldn't him and Hamulack and whoever else under 50 who ever threw left handed in the majors fight it out for that spot? I guess 1 million is not a huge investment if Biemel doesn't pan out this year.

But from a fan perspective, people paid to see Gagne, nobody ever said "Yeah, let's go tonight, that NBA washout is throwing lobs to the Padres again!"

32
Pete Carroll likes David Eckstein.

Karl Dorrell likes David Eckstein.

Let's hope Carroll's affinity for Cardinals extends all the way to Arizona.

I like David Eckstein. And I'm serious. He helped the Angels win the World Series. He's their version of the Dodgers' 1988 Mickey Hatcher.

13 I began suspecting the same when Navarro was dealt last June.

Actually Jon's post provides additional evidence to support the theory by connecting the failure to pursue Gagne and the non-tender of Werth with the decision to keep Hendrickson and Beimel.

Penny and (as you point out) Lowe will both be gone in the next year.

In Sunday's BTF's Primer blog on Plaschke's Salute to Ned, Matt Welch raised similar questions surrounding the GM's give-away of prospects aqcuired and/or protected by DePo with nothing much to show for it.

17 Rotoworld says the Rangers tendered Wilkerson a contract, did you see something different?

7 I can say with certainty that the 1970-model Rickenbacker I own would not be ideal for heavy metal. ;)

My wife had this to say since Werth was her favorite player from his 2004 season. I think she had a bit of a crush on the tall good looking guy.

"Ned es un idiota. Outhit de la voluntad de Werth el pinhead y el rey del triplit para menos entonces 1 millón de rosas."

Or as my Papa Frieberger used to say

"Ned ist ein Idiot. Werth Willeouthit der Pinhead und der triplit König für kleiner dann 1 Million Rosen."

So was Plaschke's column about Gagne's departure that was put up on the LA Times website the last time he will bring up the trade of Guillermo Mota as the cause of Gagne's breakdown?

Please.

Please.

Please.

2

I like many on this site am very sad to see Gagne go, and your phrase of Gagne's potential being so much more meaningful than Hendrickson and Biemel really hits it on the head. However, something I read this morning on the wires indicated that Gagne wanted to go somewhere where he would be the closer. So while the Dodgers were seriously interested in bringing him back did his demand for being the number 1 closer conflict with the Saito signing?

My question, I think Bernie Wiliams may fall into this catagory, but has a Scott Boras client ever resigned with his same team once he made free agency?

7.

Yeah, I've played Jacksons in the shape of a flying V at Sam Ash before, and they really bend easily, and go down 24 frets. So that would probably be a good idea, thanks.

42.

Unless you consider John Lennon heavy metal, lol.

41 Marcus Giles, Brad Wilkerson, J Werth and Joel Pineiro are all non-tendered in the same year that BA's "Organization of the Year" signs Gonzo ($7.4m), Pierre ($44m) and accepts arbitration with Mark Hendrickson.

There's a disconnect here for me....I'm going to bed.

46 Mine looks more like a Stratocaster with sharper edges, but I think pretty much any Jackson sounds the same. A good percentage of metal bands out there play Jacksons and they're fairly cheap, so I think you would be making the right choice.

47 Wilkerson wasn't non-tendered, the Giles non-tender was dumb and purely budgetary, Werth hsan't played in almost 2 years, and Pineiro has been terrible for two years straight.

I don't know Dr. David Thorpe, but it's possible we're related. Spiritually, at the very least. His thoughts on heavy metal (plenty bad language):

http://www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=4296

Ugh, Plaschke.

re: the guitar question from the last thread, my first [real] guitar was an epiphone les paul, which is sort of in that range. it was versatile, had a great tone, and was pretty good quality. i didn't do a whole lot of "shredding", personally, but it had a nice thin neck for it, and moreover the humbuckers gave it a nice chunky sound when you played overdriven or distorted chords.

oh yeah, and i'm sad to see werth go. i don't see why we couldn't have kept him around.

Why would it be a downgrade to trade Penny?

sure it depends on what the trade is, I just think that any plausible trade probably would be though.Consider Pat Burrell who could be the best case scenerio. how much of an improvment would he be over Andre Ethier? 20 VORP last year, what about Loney and Kemp? it would be some but, enough over the loss of penny especially if Wolf cant produce. as well as the fact that Penny is in his prime for very cheap over the next 3 or so years

46 When I stop and think about, the Beatles weren't in the Fender camp at all. I can't remember a single photo in which any of them were playing a guitar with that distinctive headstock. At least in the early days McCartney played a Hofner bass, Lennon had the Rick, and I think Harrison played a Gibson.

I thought Lennon played a B.C. Rich Warlock.

Lennon played a Strat on Sgt. Peppers.

Another Dodger lost today - F. Osoria was claimed off waivers by the Pirates.

57 Did he? Hmm. Well, that's one of the several Beatles albums I owned that got "lost" during one of my many moves when I was younger, so I'd have to download or buy it again to refresh my memory.

Buying CDs to replace vinyl I still own just bugs me, but try to replace a stereo turntable these days. The inexpensive ones are plastic and often have proprietary stylus/cartridge combinations, and the expensive ones are meant for DJs, which is overkill.

56 That would've looked awwwwwesome

I had this nightmare that the Red Sox couldn't agree with Matsuzaka, so they spent the money on Zito instead, and the Dodgers lost their pick to Oakland.

A history of The Beatles guitars

http://www.thecanteen.com/fabguitars.html

I'm a huge Beatles fan, but in my opinion Sergeant Pepper doesn't age well.

63 Concept Album, man...

Concept Album!

58 - Covered in a post earlier today.

54. Why is the Burrell trade the only plausible one? I would think a Penny trade would be constructed like this Penny + Player A for a player that plays the same position as Player A. With Gonzo, Pierre, Nomar, Furcal, Martin pretty much out of the question for various reasons, it would pretty much have to be a Penny plus Betemit, Penny plus Kent or Penny plus Ethier/Kemp trade. I just think the player the Dodgers would get back in a Penny trade needs to have a place to start. For simplicity purposes, I won't go into further detail/explanation.
vr, Xei

64 But weak. Not even close to Rubber Soul or Revolver. Even Magical Mystery Tour is a better album.

I had this nightmare that the Red Sox couldn't agree with Matsuzaka, so they spent the money on Zito instead, and the Dodgers lost their pick to Oakland.

dont worry Steve Phillips on ESPN just said that the Red Sox wont sign Zito b/c hes not a good match.......

62 Wow. That's quite a site, Greg. Thanks.

67 No argument from me. Rubber Soul is #1, followed by Revolver.

But I wouldn't call Pepper's weak.

69 How cool is that site? It's an absolute staple for the Beatles/guitar fan.

Dodgers/Beatles Thoughts. ;)

I'll take Revolver #1, with Rubber Soul right behind. But after that...I dunno. I like both Help! and Hard Days Night. The only thing I'm sure of is that the White Album is my least favorite.

However, something I read this morning on the wires indicated that Gagne wanted to go somewhere where he would be the closer. So while the Dodgers were seriously interested in bringing him back did his demand for being the number 1 closer conflict with the Saito signing?
45

If Gagné turned out to be the Gagné of old, of course he would have been the closer. Saito said many times he'd be happy to play setup to Gagné. And you really think Gagné is going to insist on being "closer or I won't play" if he's playing terribly, no matter where he is? Or what possible difference that might make?

The thing is that the deal he signed for is not all that much more than the Dodgers were offering. One wonders why Boras did not come back to check. Did Colletti indicate that the 4 mil plus incentives offer was the "last, final" offer? Probably. Would another 2 mil have been worth the risk? Probably.

54.

I guess I didnt go through all the options in my head but, I figured Burrel would be BEST plausible option as far as a good player coming back in the trade, without unloading the farm of course which I would assume no one wants. Burrell would only then be a upgrade of only about 10 in VORP over Ethier from last year, just to use a random common stat

White Album is great. There's just so much on it, and some of it is subpar. But there are some of my favorite songs on there.

Is there a Music Toaster in the incubator? I think the TV Toaster really cleaned things up. :)
vr, Xei

My favorite are Revolver, Help!, and the White Album.

I really liked 4-5 off the pepper album, and the good morning, good morning solo was shockingly good.

An interesting thing (to me, anyway) is that Lennon had a Framus. A close friend of mine in college had a twelve-string Framus, but I'd never seen another one anywhere until I saw that photo tonight.

I think White Album disc one is far superior to disc two.

I was just thinking of Xeifrank's opinion of Beatletalk and BOOM he shows up.

75.

Wild Honey Pie, and Good night simply shouldn't have been on there.

50 You can't consider yourself a kindred spirit of Dr. Thorpe if you actually enjoy music.

When the inmates start having fun, Xeifrank's buzzer goes off.

Met thread on Victor Zambrano at BTF.

Entertainment value= Limitless

As much as it disgusts me to say this, those KFC Famous Bowls actually look pretty good.

75 White Album would have made a great CD at 50-60 minutes instead of a full double album, but we'd argue forever on the songs to drop. Revolver (UK) has always been my favorite - strong from beginning to end. Magical Mystery Tour isn't exactly an album being a collection of a UK EP and some singles, but a good listen. Imagine the killer 1969 album that could have coelesced if they hadn't gotten so self-destructive at the end - the best of Abbey Road (again, we'd never agree on what got cut) married to, say, Let it Be, Get Back, Don't Let Me Down, I've Got a Feeling and more polished, but non-schmaltzed The Long and Winding Road. Spin Sgt. Pepper again; I used to downgrade it some, but it has actually grown back on me.

Oh, baseball. Did Toronto sign a backup C yet? Maybe Hall is their man.

[39] yeah, but you're an angels fan, so that hurts your credibility :P

[76] i would be all over a music toaster.

87 I believe Toronto still has Jason Phillips as a backup catcher.

I predict some people will be dismayed they missed out on Beatletalk tomorrow.

I can also predict who will not.

i'm no beatles aficionado, but from all i've heard, i think the white album is probably the best.

I'm a Rubber Soul man myself -- that, and Abbey Road. The White Album has some great stuff, but too much fluff. And Sgt Pepper's is too self-conscious.

89 As would I...

revolver for me. white album is a close second.

but the beatles isnt something i listen to constantly.

playlist for the last week: Crystal Skulls

I listened to Beatles when I was younger because of my dad so I do not know albums as a whole very well, but Helter Skelter is my favorite Beatles' song.

Anyone here like Stephen Lynch? Not only is he hilarious, but he's got a heck of a voice.

Rubber Soul remains my favorite Beatles album. I think part of the attraction of any album is where one is in life when an album is released. Rubber Soul came out more than 40 years ago, as I was finishing my first semester as a freshman at UCLA. I was pleased that I had managed to post about a 2.8 including an "A" in freshman composition and a "C minus" in French I. Though still shy of my 18th birthday, I felt I was a bit closer to being a grown-up. Over the break between semesters, I visited my sister and her husband in snowbound Storrs, Connecticut. We listened to the album so many times, the vinyl began to wear out. The guitar playing in "I'm Looking Through You" will last with me forever. I still pretty much know all the cuts on the album in order.

I'm Looking Through You was the first song I could play relatively well on the guitar.

Rubber Soul!

Back to baseball, if I may. I can't believe all the talent that is being non-tendered. Sheehan just had an article today predicting that not as many players would be let go as usual, given the way the market is going, but plenty of talent is out there.

And the Dodgers are full. I can't believe that they couldn't have picked up a couple players after today that would have been both better and cheaper than Pierre and Gonzales (not to mention Ramon Martinez).

Am I right that since these folks were non-tendered, there's no compensation necessary if they are picked up?

Some team is going to score some bargains after today. But it won't be the Dodgers.

tony jackson thinks something is brewing...

Waiver claim: In a development that could signal that the Dodgers are close to acquiring another player, reliever Franquelis Osoria has been claimed off waivers by Pittsburgh.

and colletti's response....

drumrollllllllll

"I'm not sure," Colletti said when asked if he believed a trade was imminent.

LOL

Here's the full list of non-tenders, acc. to mlb.com

http://tinyurl.com/wzxjj

Actually, now that I look at it, I'm less impressed. Giles, Hall, and Werth might be the class of the class (as it were).

Piniero, Zambrano, Guiel... anyone else see any one they'd rather have than Pierre or Gonzales?

I'd take Zambrano in a heartbeat. If he can stay healthy and learn some control, his stuff is filthy. Lot to ask for, though.

Jerome Williams didn't work out, did he.

104

some interesting names, especially for some middle relief. Depending on how his medical report is, Chin-hui Tsao could be someone interesting to bring in.

from reading BTF the last two years, I dont want to go through what all those mets fans went through with Zambrano.

Oh, Zambrano is the Human Walk Machine, no doubt about it. It's because his stuff moves all over the yard and he can't control it.

But Rick Peterson was supposed to fix him in ten minutes, so I don't get what went wrong.

107- I like Tsao too. I don't like how he picked the Rockies over the Dodgers because he liked their uniform better :)

Pass on Zambrano. His control is horrible and he doesn't have the same veolcity that he used to. No more D-rays rejects!

If I already missed a link in a previous comment, I apologize for the redundancy, but Eric E, can we see a picture of you? After reading your reminiscences about you and Gagne, I really want to see how close the resemblance is!

Here's a recent shot, Dan, though looks like they caught him from a less than perfect angle.

http://digamma.net/btfwiki/Eric_Enders

112

That's a great pic. (not sure about the cap!) I meant to post something about how my esteem for Eric Enders, which is already considerable, went up when I heard he looked like Mnsr. Gagne, because Gagne always made me smile.

Jon, I don't understand this comment:

Hall's departure leaves the Dodgers' gain from the Joel Guzman/Sergio Pedroza trade as two future draft picks.

Hall came over along with Hendrickson for Jae Seo and Dioner Navarro, so I don't see the connection with the Guzman trade other than both involving the Rays and being pointless. Unfortunately, we still have Hendrickson as the "gain" from that trade. Surely someone would pay a low level prospect for cheap pitching like Tomko and Hendrickson.

Surely someone would pay a low level prospect for cheap pitching like Tomko and Hendrickson

I don't see Ned trading for prospects. In fact, has he traded for a single minor leaguer* yet? Given his preference for experience over potential, the last thing he wants is more kids. I think he'd trade Penny before Hendrickson/Tomko, and he'll do it for proven mediocrity.

*Not counting major leaguers with minor league talent

Ethier?

Retaining Hendrickson is depressing.

117 - I liked your point that we are just like every other team and improvements and declines are just cyclical. However, I think it is more than that now. I am genuinely frightened of Ned Colletti and nothing he does will surprise me. When he trades Penny I expect to get back something that makes the worse or at the very least is only a marginal improvement over Ethier or Kemp.

Retaining Hendrickson is depressing

But you can still boycott Walmart...

If anyone is trying to kill some time, here is a link to Bob Dylan's Theme Time Radio Hour show about baseball.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/6nm8o2

114

Because Lugo left, that is the remaining part of that trade, draft picks. I didn't remember picks being part of the deal. Does anyone know what picks are due?

You are correct that Hendrickson and Hall came over for Navarro and Seo. So for trading Sanchez and Schmoll to the Mets, we got Seo and Hamulack. For Seo and Navarro we got Hall and Hendrickson. We got Navarro for Green plus gave the DBacks $10 million to take him.

Bottom line: We got Hendrickson and Hamulack plus Lugo for two months and Hall for three months. We gave up Green's last year plus $10 Million plus Duaner and Schmoll to the Mets.

We paid dearly to get Big Bird, I hope he's has a great season but I don't have a lot of confidence in him.

121 - We also traded Guzman, Pedroza and one other prospect whose name escapes me.

121 And we traded Raul Mondesi to get Shawn Green.

114 - I made a mistake. I'll fix.

But in that spirit, I believe the people who are reporting that Osoria's departure cleared a roster spot are in error. The Dodger roster is now at 40.

124 - Was Osoria not on the 40 man at all? And Jon, don't think I am trying to snark or anything. The fact that you don't make errors constantly is a miracle. I need an editor to sign my name correctly.

121 - The draft picks weren't part of the deal,; they're free-agent compensation.

125 Osoria was on the 40 man. I assume he was on waivers because he got removed from it.

125 - No, it was fine - it was a dumb mistake.

Osoria was on the 40-man, but Luis Gonzalez was not on it until yesterday. That's who took Osoria's spot.

A large poster of Eric Gagne at Union Station encouraged me to buy Dodger tickets. I didn't know what to make of it.

Then again, a city of LA tourism poster featured Ted McGinley and Sidney Sheldon.

RIP Peter Boyle.

130

I believe that we all have to say "Holy Crap!"

Sorry for the Rule #1 violation there.

Shoot.

Boyle showed a lot of range as an actor, taking on comedy with Raymond, while earlier in his career playing a pretty convincing bad guy.

Wow. I can't go without reading Jon's stuff and all your comments, which really has alot to do with how great this "place" is.

My son has been sick that last few days with a cold that woke him every so often gasping. One night, I think when I was trying to figure out 3B positional OBP and SLG by long-hand, he woke up pretty distraught. We got some medicine in him and he looked up at me and it just came out of me "Ya wanna go watch some Vin Scully?" (notice not Dodgers or baseball) and without a moments hesitation he goes "yeah" in the way only a 5-year old can. Wife didn't say a thing. We got through an inning of an angels game till he fell asleep. Thank God for Tivo.

Probably Abbey Road for me. Though I like them all, my brother (9 years older) gave me his copy of it because I pestered him to play it so much on the old quadrophonic white egg stereo.

I've owned alot of guitars (and never played them well, how I managed to ever get in a band is amazing) the two I kept were a Yamaha Acoustic and the Ovation Viper. Vipers in good shape are hard to come by anymore, but they are really versatile.

Linkmeiester might have said what he said 'cause his guitar had a short neck?

I figured nobody wanted Hall by himself, and besides Penny who would you shop him with? Hendrickson? I think that was a huge mistake. It is depressing.

I liked Werth and still think he has potential, but Coletti really painted himself into a corner.

Sorry for the book.

Why is there disappointment in retaining Hendrickson? I think he's good guy to have as a spot starter and he was effective in relief at the end of last year (I know, small sample size). Also, he gives a different look. A hitter might have some difficulty adjusting to him after facing Schmidt, Penny or Bills.

I remember being very disturbed by Peter Boyle in the movie "Joe". I suspect that movie doesn't play so well nowadays, but back then it gave me the creeps. Partly because I could see a hint of my father in that role.

135 - But for 4 million a year surely you want more than a slightly below average spot starter who doubles as a mediocre arm in the bullpen. I guess I prefer him to Tomko, but that is like saying you are bigger than Nicole Ritchie.

With lowered expectations, Hendrickson is okay. He could possibly be a decent middle reliever and he's a better choice to start then Danny Muegge if three or four guys get hurt. I would much rather have Tomko than Hendrickson, Hendrickson wishes he was as below average as Tomko.

What I don't get is why you keep Hendrickson and Beimel.

131

Or say "Puuen ona wisszzz!!"

("Putting on the Ritz")

44 - regarding Plaschke's column, and his claim that the Mota trade led to Gagne's overuse and thus, injuries. I sent Bill an email after his previous column had the same claim:

Hi Bill,

Long time reader of The Times and your columns. I have to disagree with the Penny/Lo Duca article. Your inference that the trade led to Gagne's arm troubles is lofty at best.

Your only relevant point (evidence-wise) for injury is that 3 days after The Trade, Gagne pitched 3 innings. This was 37 pitches. He was off the next day, then threw 17 pitches for a save, and the following day, threw again (16 pitches) for a save.

However, the prior year, in a three day stretch in August (same month), he threw 40 pitches, 17, then 16, in three consecutive days (no day off as in 2004).

It's too much to associate his injuries with that trade, in my opinion.

You also note that he pitched 82.1 innings that year (2004). I'm sure you're aware that Gagne also pitched exactly 82.1 innings in 2002 and 2003.

Total Pitches thrown in those years:
2002: 1238
2003: 1189
2004: 1268

Guillermo Mota had a 4.81 era with Florida in 2004, a 4.70 era in 2005, and a 5.94 era in Cleveland in 2006. Brazoban had a 2.48 era in 2004 taking over Mota's spot.

137 In this market, a lefty spot starter who only falls off the mound once a game will cost you $4 million.

138 Hendrickson = long relief and Beimel = not long relief? Or maybe because Hendrickson would be a good part of a trade later.

140 - I've cited my post about this so many times, I felt people would be tired of me doing so again.

Hey, at Dodgers.com I only counted 39 on the 40 man roster.

I e-mailed Josh Rawitch about the 40-man roster. The confusion was over Jose Diaz - who was outrighted to Las Vegas last month (but still remained on the Dodgers.com list, as far as I can tell).

So they are at 39.

143 - They must have just made the change. I counted the roster about a half-dozen times in the past 24 hours.

ok. So who gets to be number 40?

145 Great!! Time to make that deal, Ned. Penny and Kent to somebody for a slugger and sign up Marcus Giles.

Jays offer Wells 7 year contract at $18M per year. Wells is thinking about it.

Could the Jays be thinking about a trade for Wells and are trying to sign him long term to get the most players in return?

Does Wells thinking include waiting to know just who he might be traded to if he signs or jsut waiting for the Commissioner to figure how this might get done?

I am thinking the Dodgers would like to move some payroll in such a trade meaning Penny and Hendrickson would be part of the offer, the easy part, and the hard part would be which prospects to give up.

The players I want the Dodgers to keep are Loney, Kemp, Martin, Billingsley, Elbert, Meloan, Miller, Kershaw, Broxton.

Meaning the package could include: Ethier, Betemit, LaRoche, Kuo, etc.

Also, he gives a different look.

Well, yeah, in the sense that he's crappy and the other ones aren't.

Okay, I had to sneak in here to post this, from a Sylvester Stallone Q&A. A reader asked him if he ever thought of projects to share with Governor Arnold. Here's what he said:

The idea of working with Arnold came up twice - one was with John Hughes, and it was about a pair of neighbors that were determined to destroy one another with their back-and-forth everyday vendettas. It was based on an incident that actually happened with me and a neighbor named Vin Scully, the voice of the Dodgers. That didn't work out.

What the hay?

148 - It could also be that Toronto genuinely wants to keep Wells. Considering the acquisitions they've made the last couple years, they're not about to start rebuilding unless they want to do it Florida Marlins style.

134 "Linkmeiester might have said what he said 'cause his guitar had a short neck?"

Er, please clarify what you mean there. I said a lot of things, and your pronouns' antecedents are unclear. ;)

150 - To quote Les Miserables, "I am agog. I am aghast."

Re: Peter Boyle

I don't know if this will be interesting to anyone, but it's been on my mind so I thought I'd post about it. I just hit my mid/late twenties and suddenly everyone's getting married, having kids, and people's parents are starting to die. Being a Los Angeles local, I've had the unique experience of finding out about it from the newspaper (or in this case, Dodgerthoughts). Peter Boyle was a good friend's dad. Robert Altman was a good friend's grandfather. It's a very strange was to hear about things.
Okay, I'm realizing now what my point is. Some weeks ago it was reported in a DT post that an NBA player was gay, which I guess is news in our culture. Everyone around here handled the information with humor and acceptance. I'm not gay, and my dad/grandfather has not passed away, but I still want to applaud the level of respect, acceptance and celebration that is shown towards pretty much everyone who isn't a Giant or messing with the dodgers whether they be posters, athletes, or celebrities. I have so much appreciation for this site. And Mr. Boyle may you rest peacefully. You were a kind man (to me at least) and a skilled actor.

Two additional great Peter Boyle performances: 1) The Candidate, 2) The X-Files.

The candidate was wonderful.

And I guess no one will have trouble identifying this (complete) set of keywords, which I pass on just cause it's such a great set

1960s
Super Bowl
Courtroom
Drugs
Flashback Sequence
Hitchhiker
Journalism
LSD
Cannabis
Nixon
Presidential Election
Based On Novel
Gonzo Journalist
Nixon Mask

And the scene where's got the cop on the stand and he's asking whether he feared the defendant had a furtive explosive device hidden inside his pack of cigarettes was quite classic.

BOSTON -- Daisuke Matsuzaka headed to Boston on Wednesday with Red Sox officials, a sign Boston had reached a preliminary contract agreement with the star pitcher.

158 Either that, or they're planning on pushing Boras out of the plane over Nebraska.

158
But I used Latin on the Griddle to describe this event.

At least in the headline.

148

Why not put Laroche on "the list"? It seems a lot of people here are down on him. Maybe because of the injuries. I like to rank him behind only Kemp, Billingsley and Elbert. Let's remember here, he is a 3rd basemen. What have we had, one good season at 3B since Cey left? Personally, I'd rather see Broxton or Loney go. 1B an RP are more replaceable positions.

Nice post NJR.

I just hope nobody who knew or liked Pinochet was reading, that day.

161
I tend to agree with you on this. I would be more likely to give up Kemp or Loney than LaRoche because of the position that he plays and how few truly good third basemen there are in MLB.

For the record, we really should keep all of these guys if possible.

164 - I think Kemp is far and away the highest ceiling prospect. If he can play CF then he plays an even tougher position than Laroche. But again, keep them all.

Jim Callis (Baseball America) chat starting right now on ESPN.com

My hopes about the bullpen include Hendrickson becoming the next Jamie Moyer. Remember that he was in the NBA and is just really starting his fifth season as a pitcher. If he learns how to pitch and change speeds, he can be effective like he showed in relief last year. I cringed when we had to go to him against the Mets in the post season but he held his own. He has to be smart and crafty and throwing that junk has kept Moyer employed for a long time after the Cubs gave up on him.

I still wonder what would have happened had Beimel been called on in game one of the NLDS instead of Penny. We had just gotten back into the game when Penny had his rough inning. I forgive him if he can provide us a solid lefty in the pen, but that whole lie and the timing of his bar injury still makes me angry and I've never been in the locker room. He was contrite and such, but will the Dodgers trust him? I don't know.

The pen looks solid if we can use Tomko as we did last year in the sixth or seventh with Hendrickson the long reliever and potential second lefty for a tough out that hits left-handed. Broxton, Saito, perhaps Brazoban can get the job done if they pitch to their potential. I thought Osorio would fit if Brazoban couldn't come back the same. Mark Alexander? The key is consistency. Can they develop a pen with roles like Tracy was able to assign when we had Dreifort, Mota, and Gagne dominating.

Where is Kelly Wunsch? Is he still in Vegas? Do we still have him under contract (minor league)?

150 - Is that online somewhere?

In all the talk of the Beatles, how has nobody mentioned Sgt. Pepper: the Movie?! I'd heard tales of how godawful it was, but never actually saw it. Until last month, when it was free on InDemand. I knew it was going to be painful. I knew I would be forced to hear the Bee Gees sing Beatles songs. I knew all of this, and yet I still chose to watch it.

I lasted about 15 minutes. I just couldn't take it. And I love bad movies. I count Ed Wood as one of my three favorite directors of all-time, the other two being John Waters (the only difference being he means to make bad movies) and Terry Gilliam. And yet I couldn't make it through, not even on an ironic or camp level. Maybe I wasn't stoned enough. And I was really stoned.

Defamer has the Boyle Putting on the Ritz clip up - so funny.

168 Fan email Q&A with Sly on Harry Knowles's goofball site. First question.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/30952

How about Hendrickson and Beimel to the Cubs for Ronny Cedeno, then flip Cedeno with Ethier and Penny for Vernon Wells? I assume with Royce Clayron around they could use a young, ML-ready, SS.

172 Never thought this would come up, but why would the Jays want Cedeno, they have Russ Adams.

173. Because Adams can't field or hit, and Cedeno can field and is young enough to hit. Also, Adams spent more time last year at 2nd than SS. I think they want Hill to play 2nd, and have been looking for a SS, which is why they were persuing Julio Lugo.

165
I agree Kemp by far has the highest ceiling, but we have Pierre in center. I also agree we should keep the all. I don't see anything wrong with playing Kemp and Laroche now. Is there anybody that really thinks we will get more production out of Gonzalez/Betemit than we would from Kemp/Laroche? If either of them failed miserably, we still have Loney that we could plug into the outfield or 1B and move Nomar to 3B temporarily. I guess I just don't see what we're getting by keeping Betemit at 3B, unless we're just trying to hang on to him for when Kent is gone. Then again, there is Abreu. I think we'll never know if these guys are ready until we let them play.

Per Jim Callis - Andy Laroche is #1 on our prospect list, Kershaw is #2.

175
I think that Colletti is counting on at least 30-45 games without Nomar, Kent, Gonzalez, or all three (God forbid). If Kent goes down, Betemit goes to 2nd and LaRoche is called up. If Nomar is hurt, Loney is put at 1st and Kemp is recalled. If gonzo goes down, then we have Loney and Ethier in the corners.

I think that it is a win-win for Kemp and LaRoche because they get to stay in a lower pressure environment and recover from injuries (LaRoche) and learn to lay off sliders away (Kemp).

Why is it that Loney gets no mention at 3B. I know he hasn't played there before, but he is reportedly a wizard with a glove and has a cannon of an arm (he was a pitcher in HS). Surely he could play third if Saenz can.

167
He is on the 51's roster. I don't know his injury status.

176 - Wow, Kershaw over Elbert.

178 I'll let you think about that one for a second.

181 - I realize that it sounds absurd to play someone out of position. My point is, why has Loney never played 3B?

181 - Handedness seems like a minor reason, imo.

178

Uh... he's a lefty. When have you seen a lefty play third?

the top 4 prospects are set in stone. Im just curious who the 5th would be.

183 - I don't think Vinny would be as infatuated with Loney's play on dribblers down the 3rd base line as he was with Beltre.

In fact, as a lefty myself, it hurts just to think about the contortions required to make such a play.

183 Has you ever tried to play third base left handed? It's impossible.

If Mark Hendrickson can become the next Jamie Moyer, James Loney can play third base. Or fly.

187 - I'll admit I haven't. Why is it so difficult? You have to throw across your body? Oh well, I get about a million bad ideas a day. That was one of them.

189 Whenever you make a play, your body is facing away from first. To make the throw, you need to pivot all the way around to the correct side.

189 - You remember the baseball scene in Gung Ho, where the Japanese team bunted to third on every at bat? You'd get a lot of that.

So somethings are traditional for a reason eh?

188

That is quite funny. I sure hope Hendrickson can become a decent pitcher. However, I don't think anyone will ever truly consider giving Loney any time at third base.

Now that I'm at lunch, and have a few seconds to meditate on the passing of Peter Boyle, I must say that Young Frankenstein was my first exposure to truly great comedy around the age of 10 (Hat tip: Mother Brock). Peter Boyle was an unbelievable actor, from comedy to drama, and underrated. Whether you consider "Joe" to be a good movie or not, Boyle's performance was unbelievable, and I would have loved to see him as Popeye Doyle (wouldn't be better than Hackman, but it's an interesting "what-if" scenario).

Like Steve said, Peter Boyle's X-Files episode, entitled "Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose" was one of the best, and even non-X-Filers would love it.

187 Yes, I have, and no, it's not. It's quite easy actually. On the slow rollers you just spin the other way.

New post up top. I'm sorry for undercutting Greg Brock's tribute, but the new post is all his fault, anyway.

The real question is why aren't there any lefthanded hitting catchers? (Or there didn't used to be -- I can't say I've checked recently)

Make that lefthanded throwing catchers.

197 Because throwing out basestealers at third used to be a much bigger part of the game than it is now. In today's game, catchers probably throw to first (pickoffs & groundballs) more than they throw to third, so it would actually be an advantage to be a lefty catcher.

But it's against tradition, so of course nobody tries it.

Red Sox get Matsuzaka for 6/52, 6/103 with the posting fee. Considering the state of the market this is a pretty good signing, though I would have tried to keep the years down.

198 Left handed catchers would get destroyed at the plate. Imagine reaching across your body to tag a runner as he barrels into you.

Bad things, man. Bad things.

195 - Certainly not impossible, but you've got to really want his bat in the lineup to do so.

Our softball team on Kwajalein was so bereft of good athletes (unless beer-drinking on the bench is considered athletic) that we played the best real athlete on the team at shortstop. He was left-handed and a recent graduate of the high school out there (thus about 10 years younger than anyone else on the team). We got a lot of comments about it, but he actually played it fairly well. That may have had something to do with the quality of athletes the opposition fielded.