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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

4+1 Is On ESPN Classic Now
2006-12-31 09:10
by Jon Weisman

... with Vinny calling it.

Eighth inning: "Boy is this a game, huh? Wow! And this crowd lovin' every moment of it. It's been a roller-coaster ride, from depression to euphoria and all the stops in between."

He wasn't kidding. And after that, we had the Dodgers put runners at second and third in the eighth, having cut the deficit to 6-5, only to have Nomar Garciaparra strand them. And then Takashi Saito, of all people, imploding in the ninth (helped and hurt at once by Kenny Lofton's all-glove, no-catch of Josh Bard's drive over the wall).

And that was just one small chapter.

After Marlon Anderson's game-tying home run, of all the reactions, the most priceless comes from a Dodger batboy. He grabs his forehead with such excitement and amazement that I thought he was going to tear off his own skull.

Another forgotten aspect of the game is that the Dodgers had three outs to push across the winning run in the ninth. Julio Lugo was the next batter, and he drove the ball to the right-center gap. It would have transformed his Dodger career if he could have had the magic power the others had, but the ball died in Mike Cameron's glove.

Comments (108)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-12-31 09:31:42
1.   Franklin Stubbs
Yay! Some Giants-fan family is in town for the holiday. This is the perfect game to have on today! Thanks for the heads up Jon. Hope your holiday is rockin'!
2006-12-31 09:57:47
2.   Bob Timmermann
And just up on Retrosheet:

2006-12-31 09:59:05
3.   Jon Weisman
Kobe's 81 is next.
2006-12-31 09:59:10
4.   Jon Weisman
Kobe's 81 is next.
2006-12-31 10:00:56
5.   Jon Weisman
Hoffman has maybe never thrown a worse pitch than the one to Martin. Chest-high fastball over the middle with nothin'.
2006-12-31 10:06:55
6.   Bob Timmermann
It's just 6-5 in the 8th for me as I got up late.

Don't tell me how it ends!

2006-12-31 10:18:36
7.   Marty
Stupid Sele.

Lofton and Nomar leading off the top of the tenth. We're doomed. I'm turning it off.

2006-12-31 10:31:00
8.   Marty
Aww, they left out Vinny saying "Oh by the way, the Dodgers are in first place"
2006-12-31 10:35:07
9.   Andrew Shimmin
"Left out," is an interesting way of saying, "butchered." First they only allocate ninety minutes (minus commercials) for the game, then they chop up Vin's call. This is the greatest Dodger-related outrage since Beimel's drunken glass-smashing! I'm boycotting the Kobe game.
2006-12-31 10:39:21
10.   Jon Weisman
At least it was Vin to begin with...
2006-12-31 10:41:02
11.   bhsportsguy
9 Probably because a minute and twenty seconds elapses from the time Vin says "Dodgers win 11-10" to the "Oh, by the way, the Dodgers are in first place."
2006-12-31 10:47:52
12.   Andrew Shimmin
10, 11- I'll have no part of this half-a-loaf talk. If they'd just played the, "Mike Tyson chewed on Lennox Lewis's leg," promo one fewer time, they'd have had plenty of space for the full call. I think we've got a soft bigotry of low expectations situation going down, here. We need to expect more from ESPN Classic (which, it took me five minutes to find as I've not watched it since the Great Realignment of Channels, and maybe not even before that) or how will it ever grow to become a respectable channel? Do we want it sleeping on the couch when it's thirty, working part time at the Blockbuster, and earning spare cash on the weekend buying beer for teenagers?
2006-12-31 10:50:10
13.   D4P
The NY Giants' victory last night eliminated the Rams from the playoffs. Yet, if Seattle loses and the Rams win, St. Louis would tie for the division championship.

Which leads to a question (for you know who): how many times in NFL history has a team tied for the division championship but failed to qualify for the playoffs?

2006-12-31 10:52:15
14.   Bob Timmermann
Do you have an era in mind?
2006-12-31 10:53:08
15.   Bob Timmermann
I'll buy you some beer...
2006-12-31 10:54:03
16.   D4P
Hmmm, hadn't really thought about it, but I guess the "wild card" era would be most appropriate.
2006-12-31 10:57:55
17.   Bob Timmermann
In 1975, Baltimore and Miami tied for the AFC East at 10-4. The Colts won the tiebreaker and Cincinnati won the wild card at 11-3.
2006-12-31 10:59:11
18.   Bob Timmermann
And it happened again in 1976 in the AFC Central with Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.

I have a feeling there will be a few more as I go through time.

2006-12-31 11:02:26
19.   D4P

Given that a division winner is automatically given a higher seed than a wild card team, regardless of record, one might be tempted to think that the loser of a division championship tiebreaker would be thought of more highly than the wild card teams as well. But not so.

Why ignore records and give the division championship tiebreak winner precedence over all wild card teams, but then consider records and give wild card teams with better records precedence over division championship tiebreak losers?

2006-12-31 11:08:04
20.   Bob Timmermann
In 2002, Miami, New England, and the Jets all tied atop the AFC East at 9-7.

Only the Jets made the playoffs. So that should have been the last time.

The precedence in seeding given to division champions over wild cards is an incentive for teams to win their divisions. After that, wild cards are supposed to reward teams that had good records, but didn't win the division.

They serve two different goals. Wild cards serve to make the playoffs a mixture of teams that won their division and also the best teams that didn't. You can't have it both ways regarding playoff seedings and tiebreakers.

2006-12-31 11:11:59
21.   D4P
But if winning your division is such a big deal that it gives you a higher seed than wild card teams with better records, it seems like tying for the division (but losing the tiebreaker) should still be a big enough deal to get you in the playoffs. This would be especially true when the tiebreaker is something relatively silly.
2006-12-31 11:19:54
22.   Bob Timmermann
The first tiebreaker is head-to-head, which makes a lot more sense than anything else. Then its conference record, which is also sensible. Then it's common opponents. It really only gets weird after that when you get to strength of victory.

The Rams have had a worse record against NFC teams than the Giants even with a win today against Minnesota (7-5 to 6-6).

Why should a team from the NFC get into the playoffs as opposed to an NFC team that played better inside the conference?

2006-12-31 11:23:08
23.   Bob Timmermann
And besides the Rams lost twice to the Seahawks so it's hard to make a case that they deserve to be considered divisional champs.

The Seahawks also had a better record in the division (3-3) than the Rams (2-4).

The Cardinals actually had the best record in intradivision games at 4-2!

2006-12-31 11:24:23
24.   D4P
Well, I'm not really trying to defend the Rams. They're not that good this year. But still, if they tie for the division championship...

Also, why should intraconference performance necessarily trump interconference? What if, for example, the other conference is "better"? What's more impressive:

1. A good record vs. the bad conference and a bad record vs. the good conference, or
2. vice versa?

2006-12-31 11:26:12
25.   LAT
Sam, I went to Santa Anita yesterday (lost. . .again, but fun) and in the Racing Form they had the odds to win the '07 World Series. The Nats were 350-1! I know they are going to be bad but that bad?

BTW, Dodgers were 10-1.

2006-12-31 11:29:42
26.   Bob Timmermann
In the NFL, the intraconference games are set by a formula so teams should be facing teams of relatively the same quality as they were the year before. The interconference games are just set up on a rotation. One year your team may end up with a great division and another year, your interconference opponents may be the NFC West!
2006-12-31 11:36:04
27.   D4P
Ultimately, I guess my issue is with division winners automatically getting higher seeds than wild card teams regardless of record.
2006-12-31 11:41:04
28.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, you should address your concerns to Roger Goodell.

With the Rams winning at halftime, they likely will be the team that gives the Giants a playoff berth. A Lions or Vikings loss would do it. And the Lions are ahead at halftime in Dallas!

I have a feeling that won't last. I've seen the Lions a few times. They are really bad. Do you remember when Mike Williams was at USC and could catch any pass thrown toward him? That skill has deserted him in the NFL.

2006-12-31 11:42:41
29.   Bob Timmermann
It also appears that Mike Williams is not active today for the Lions.
2006-12-31 11:57:41
30.   Bob Timmermann
No, Mike Wiliams is active. He caught a pass!
2006-12-31 12:00:09
31.   D4P
Yes, you should address your concerns to Roger Goodell

All right. Maybe I'll publish our correspondence in book form, and call it something catchy like "Roger and I" or "Me and Roger"

2006-12-31 12:05:18
32.   overkill94
In Cris Carter's latest article on Yahoo he gives out his NFL awards and made it seem like Vince Young for offensive ROY was a given. I know he "just wins games", but his stats are terrible and some of his "wins" were won by the defense. Don't Marques Colston and Maurice Jones-Drew have a much better claim to the hardware than Vince "69.7 QB Rating" Young?
2006-12-31 12:07:58
33.   Bob Timmermann
You can't quantify heart and determination.
2006-12-31 12:10:08
34.   D4P
You can't quantify heart and determination

5'7", 165 lbs

2006-12-31 12:38:10
35.   Bob Timmermann
I wish D4P an Ecksteinian New Year!
2006-12-31 12:48:53
36.   D4P
Thanks, Bob. I think...
2006-12-31 13:02:26
37.   Andrew Shimmin
So, I'm watching the Curb Your Enthusiasm-athon. In the one that just ended, Larry's Prius runs out of gas. But he's on a sidestreet, so, it shouldn't have been burning gas, anyway, right? If a Prius runs out of gas, does it ignore the battery and just die?

The problem with posting this is that Bob's the only Prius driver I know of, and I'd bet big money that he's not run out of gas in the car. And maybe not ever, in any.

2006-12-31 13:07:37
38.   Bob Timmermann
When a Prius runs out of gas, you need to stop the car right away. What happens is that the batteries will run down without having anything to recharge them.

Even if you are driving on a side street, you are going to burn some gas. Maybe not much, but some.

A Prius gives off an audible warning when you are low on gas.

And I've never run out of gas in a car I have since it is one of my greatest fears in life.

Biggest fears in life:
1. Death
2. Running out of gas
3. Nuclear war
4. Frank Robinson coming by my home to chat.

2006-12-31 13:23:10
39.   Andrew Shimmin
Thanks. Shouldn't the battery, even without anything (save the brakes, right? Don't they recharge the battery?) charging it be able to locomote the car some reasonable distance? The old electrical only cars were good for like 150 miles, weren't they? Is the Prius battery that much weaker? I think you should confront your fear and do some clinical research on this front. For the good of, um, my passing curiosity.

My biggest fears:
1. Clown Convention
2. Death of someone I love
3. Feelings
4. My own death

2006-12-31 13:31:58
40.   Bob Timmermann
The Prius batteries aren't designed to go very far without any gas behind them. If they run out that way, they're goners.

And they're really, really, really expensive to replace. And you've invalidated your warranty.

2006-12-31 13:34:24
41.   Bob Timmermann
This is from a Prius owners web site:

Not having the engine available makes driving a Prius using just electricity very risky. Without gasoline it is very easy to push the motor & battery-pack beyond the tolerances they were designed to operate. The motor is never suppose to exceed 42 MPH (68 km/h) all by itself and the battery-pack is never suppose to be fully depleted. Avoiding running out of gas will insure the mechanical & electrical components won't overheat and the battery-pack provides the longest life possible.

Since the Prius can go quite a bit further between fill-ups than most vehicles, there's really no reason you should ever run out of gas anyway. But if you do, drive very slowly to get out of harm's way. Then call the customer-care phone number Toyota provided as part of the warranty; they will provide enough gasoline for you to drive to a gas station.

2006-12-31 13:41:31
42.   overkill94
I was told that a replacement battery was something like $10,000; is that true?
2006-12-31 13:41:41
43.   Bob Timmermann
The Fox affiliate in L.A. is showing Arizona at San Diego with the announcing team of Matt Devlin and Dale Hellestrae. Who are these men?

Chris Rix is the sideline reporter and he's apparently made the jump from sideline reporter for high school games out in Southern California.

2006-12-31 13:42:44
44.   Bob Timmermann
I wouldn't be surprised if that were the price. I don't really want to find out. I'll just wait until it wears down after 150,000 miles or so.

I'm around 7,000 after two years.

2006-12-31 13:51:09
45.   50 years a Dodger Fan
[38,39] Your fear of death tells me you are both fairly young and in safe, secure situations. When you are old enough that it is an everyday possibility, you do think of it and plan for it as best you can; it's like a Dr's appointment next week or next month, you just don't know the time. and fear isn't part of the equation. I am told it is the same way with troops in combat; they fear capture or serious disabling injury a lot more than just dying. I suspect you guys are just joking about it and that is a healthy thing.
2006-12-31 13:57:59
46.   old dodger fan
A new battery for a Honda Insight from the dealer is $3,600
2006-12-31 13:59:30
47.   Andrew Shimmin
Well, I was serious about the clown convention. Don't clowns know how creepy they are? Why on earth would they gather together, unless it was to plot evil?

By the way, are we being rude to our host if we have an entire conversation about running out of gas without referencing the Seinfeld episode?

2006-12-31 14:00:30
48.   Steve
Becker ran out of gas all the time. Hijinks ensued.
2006-12-31 14:01:43
49.   overkill94
You can let go of my hand now
2006-12-31 14:12:32
50.   Andrew Shimmin
Eve Ensler is on CSPAN2 right now (Happy New Year!); I wish I had a transcript. I have a feeling that, if one could run just three find-and-replaces on the text of her speech, Bill O'Reilly could give it, without anyone's batting an eyelash.

She's reading her book, now, which is not O'Reillian.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-12-31 14:21:57
51.   Bob Timmermann
Since I'm 41, the fear of death could be dropping down from the #1 slot and the Frank Robinson surprise pop-in could be moving up the list.
2006-12-31 15:01:23
52.   D4P
2. Death of someone I love
3. Feelings
4. My own death

4 implies that 2 does not apply to you. Remember, Andy: learning to love yourself, it is the greatest love of all. A good first step is to embrace your feelings, not fear them...

2006-12-31 15:27:28
53.   Bob Timmermann
D4P fears a world where David Eckstein owns Walmart and restripes all the parking lots to allow more SUVs to park in them.
2006-12-31 15:32:24
54.   D4P
You laugh now...
2006-12-31 15:43:01
55.   Andrew Shimmin
52- That sounds a lot like feelings talk to me. So I'm going to run away and hide.
2006-12-31 15:52:56
56.   D4P
55 might make a good misogynist after all...
2006-12-31 16:13:44
57.   Andrew Shimmin
So many people have told me that, that I don't really even notice, any more. But, coming from you, it really means a lot. I do like Arthur Koestler and Philip Larkin very much, so maybe there's something to it. And I laughed at the line in Nabokov's memoir about having strictly homosexual taste in literature.

Maybe I could be like a new wave misogynist; one who doesn't hate woman, just enjoys anti-woman culture. Like there's the new wave Klan, that insists it doesn't hate black people. Or how you can join Amnesty International, now, even if you don't oppose the death penalty. I've always wanted to be a uniter!

2006-12-31 17:29:49
58.   LAT
Happy New Year everyone.
Be safe and smart tonight.
2006-12-31 17:50:06
59.   Brian Y
I know this is purely hypothetical but do any of you think we could get Milledge and Heilman from the Mets for Penny, Tomko, and DeWitt maybe then package Milledge, Broxton, Ethier, etc for Miggy Cabrera? I think they want a starting quality C so Im sure we have enough ammo to make another trade for an intriguing catching prospect like Saltimboccha, Clement, Mathis, etc. I just think we have enough ammo to get the parts necessary for the Marlins to pry Cabrera away from them. I mean an OF for the Marlins with Milledge, Ethier, and either Willingham or Hermida is not too shabby. Plus Betemit is still cheap and we can keep Kemp and LaRoche in my mind to replace Gonzo and Kent. Just a thought. I would prefer keeping Loney also but I just think there's no reason why we cant blow teams away with offers considering the growth of Meloan, Brazoban and Saito coming back, and the return of most starting position players. I would rather have LaRoche needed for Kent than Betemit and Kemp in case we cant get a decent OF.

Also, am I the only one hoping Craig Wilson is signed? Great Bat, horrible D but can be a nice emergency Catcher.

Ok, im done rambling, I promise!

2006-12-31 17:58:29
60.   Brian Y
OK, not quite done. Here are some trade proposals that may be nonsensical but hey im bored.

Trade #1 SEA/LAD
Dodgers Get: C Clement
M's Get: P Hendrickson, OF Delwyn Young, 1B Cory Dunlap

Trade #2 NYM/LAD
Dodgers Get: OF Milledge, P Heilman
Mets Get: P Penny, Tomko, OF Ethier, IF Oscar Robles

Trade #3 FLA/LAD
Dodgers Get: 3B Cabrera, P Renyel Pinto
Marlins Get: OF Milledge, IF DeWitt, P Broxton, P Alexander, P Greg Miller, C Clement, 3B Betemit, 1B Cory Dunlap

And if the trades seem lopsided its cuz they are. I think in the opposite teams favor but correct me if Im wrong cuz well im rambling and bored. But anyways, I think having Cabrera is worth the sacrifice of most of these kids. Whether or not teams want to deal with us and NOT get a Loney, Kemp, or LaRoche is a whole nother story though and not one I really feel like thinking about. Anyways, sorry about the armchair GM like trades. Just bored.

2006-12-31 17:59:22
61.   Brian Y
oops sorry about putting Dunlap in there twice, I meant to put in Raglani but oh well.
2006-12-31 18:12:09
62.   Dodger Jack

I know you are bored. Go party. It's New Year's Eve.

Turns out I am bored, too. So I will entertain myself by indulging your proposed trades.

No disrespect intended, but they are all bad, even risible:

Trade #1 SEA/LAD
Dodgers Get: C Clement
M's Get: P Hendrickson, OF Delwyn Young, 1B Cory Dunlap

Comment: You are giving away too much for Clement. Hendricksen is a servicable long-reliever and has market value as a LH starter. Del Young is a good hitter with no defense and no position. Dunlap is an overweight first baseman who can't hit for power.

Trade #2 NYM/LAD
Dodgers Get: OF Milledge, P Heilman
Mets Get: P Penny, Tomko, OF Ethier, IF Oscar Robles

Comment: This is your worst by far. Penny may be MLB's best available starting pitcher. The Dodgers should be able to get the likes of a Rios and a McGowen for him. Why does everyone love Milledge? Heilman is a lapsed prospect. Why do we need him? Penny should be more than enough to get these two. Why throw in Ethier, Tomko, and Robles? Ethier is a proven commodity and has value; so does Tomko -- if nothing more, as a RH long reliever. Robles is probably on the chute anyway.

Trade #3 FLA/LAD
Dodgers Get: 3B Cabrera, P Renyel Pinto
Marlins Get: OF Milledge, IF DeWitt, P Broxton, P Alexander, P Greg Miller, C Clement, 3B Betemit, 1B Cory Dunlap

Comment: I realize that you are making these trades serially. Can you give me an example of three serial trades that have ever occurred in real life? Your premise is preposterous. But, as I said, I will indulge. First, Ned should never trade Broxton. He is the NL's next horse/closer. Big mistake. Everyone else you've thrown in here from our side is still a question mark, but for Betemit. This kind of deal might have appealed to the Fish a year or two ago when they were auctioning off the whole team. But not now.

All that said, Brian, Happy New Year, pal!

2006-12-31 19:21:24
63.   Brian Y
Yeah I know they are lopsided and I just know the Marlins wanted either Milledge or Kemp so I figured throwing them Milledge and indulging the Mets needs gives us depth still with Heilman even if it includes mortgaging many of our prospects. So obviously I know 3 sequential trades were more than preposterous but I figured i was bored so rather than get into a 4 team trade which is hard alone let alone ALL the players I put in there I just separated them. Clement I do give a lot of credit too only because I know the Marlins want a good C prospect with a high ceiling which he is and I know the M's are interested in Hendrickson.

I just went with newspaper rumors about who's interested and while the Mets say they arent interested in Penny if they are willing to give up Milledge for Blanton I figured we could overpay to be able to appease the Marlins needs. But yes, I did make the trades look lopsided on purpose so we could get what we need, give up a lot but have Miggy Cabrera. We have SOOO many good prospects I figured it might be smart to trade a few 2nd tier (not including Broxton and Ethier) for a bonofide star in Cabrera. Im not saying there wouldnt be better deals either but I was just trying to go with a huge splash and if you look at the proven commodities in Tomko, Hendrickson, Broxton, Penny, Ethier?, and Betemit? then it seems like a solid risk to give all of them up for Cabrera. But that's just me. To get Heilman who can be a #4-5 or set-up Saito along with Brazoban returning sometime then we should be ok still without Broxton. We keep Loney, Kemp, and LaRoche so we are still more than capable of allowing our kids like Meloan, Elbert, and Kershaw to compete in 07 or 08. Probably 09 or so for Kershaw but still. I think DeWitt is vastly overrated but he does have a lot of tools, patience is not really one of them though.

So yes, VERY lopsided but we come out with Cabrera and Heilman which I cant really complain about. Who cares if our minor league teams do well anyways? Cabrera is worth it if only to me but this was a stupid rant anyway. God it sounds like I have a man crush on him. Ugh. Ok, im done babbling for real tonite. Have a great New Years everyone. I wish I drank so I could party it up and have an excuse for these posts lol.

2006-12-31 19:32:01
64.   Dodger Jack
No problem, Brian. I like your logic anyway.

If you are still awake and sober, tell me what the book is on Meloan. I am well aware of Kershaw and Elbert. But Meloan is new to me.

Also, though I try to follow all of the Dodger trade rumors as well, I had not heard about the Fish wanting Hendrickson (I wasn't aware that anyone wanted him, except for Ned). I wonder if any kind of offer has been made. Did you hear anything about who the Marlins were willing give up for him?

2006-12-31 19:36:08
65.   Vishal
bob's last wishes in the previous thread reminded me that i'd thought about mine as well, so i figure i'll share my plans for a funeral party:

-cremation in the san francisco bay, viking style, with my body on a little wooden ship set alight with flaming arrows from archers on shore.
-obligatory "vishal was a good bowler... and a good man" speech given by a close friend
-square dancing!
-flyover from a military aircraft
-plenty of food, alcohol and music for all the guests to enjoy

i thought about adding some festive showgirls to the list but worried it would have been a bit gauche.

2006-12-31 20:09:11
66.   Marty
65 If it
If it's a viking funeral, you need a dog at your feet. Who would it be?
2006-12-31 20:11:59
67.   Brian Y
64. Meloan has the stuff to be a solid set-up man/closer with 3 decent pitches. He really came on this last year and all indications are that management is really high on him. The M's are the ones interested in Hendrickson for whatever reason other than Bavasi being an idiot and he did well in the AL before being traded and provides a nice solid reliever or #5 starter. Im sure they will want more and for us to take Beltre or Sexson though which might be why a trade hasnt taken place. They also have Jeremy Reed whom they probably prefer to trade since they have Adam Jones who is a better prospect. But they have no need to rush Jones yet. If you want to check out Meloan's stats you can go to and look him up. I don't have the patience but he did very well in the Arizona Fall League also which makes him more interesting. I also think we have a solid step-in starter in Eric Stultz should any of our 5 go down. And Heilman wants to start so we could stretch him out also if needed along with Elmer Dessens. I really just think we would be better with a GREAT marketable player for years to come other than Nomar, Kent, Pierre, Luis Gonzalez and a number of other players that may dissapoint. To be able to get a bonafide superstar, shed some cash, and still be able to keep the untouchables like Kemp, Martin, Elbert, Kershaw, etc would just be shear genius but I doubt any other GM in their right mind would allow it to happen and would overpay more than us just to not allow us to make the 3 trades I proposed regardless of how lopsided they may be. But how many other teams have AS MUCH to offer as us? The Halos? D'backs? Royals? I don't think any of the 3 have AS MUCH depth throughout their system and Major League team as we do. We have really good depth right now and we could overpay and still have LaRoche replace Kent, Loney replace Ethier, Kemp replace Luis Gonzalez, Meloan and Brazoban replace Broxton, Elbert, Stultz, Heilman, Dessens replace a SP if something catastrophic happens. And moreover our payroll still goes down so we can do more! We may have to overpay the Mets to get the prospects and have them absorb the salaries. We might have to overpay for everything but we have that luxury of depth and a still deep farm system with Tony Abreu, Chin-lung Hu, Preston Matttingly, a couple minor league FA's, and whomever else steps up which someone always does. Prospects dissapoint and I LOVE Broxton, Ethier, and Penny BUT is it worth it even for just 2 years of Miguel Cabrera? Yup. But it would never happen lol.
2006-12-31 20:19:43
68.   Brian Y
64. I dont drink or do drugs so im ALWAYS sober. I own a production company here in Vegas after growing up in the LA area and my parents/grandparents, etc being huge Dodger Fans I just have always bled Dodger Blue. My gf would actually say Im a superfan because I DVR everygame regardless of if they lose or not and judge what pitch they should throw in every situation and know every batters flaws and same with pitcher tendencies. Im pathetic really but hey, Im allowed! Normally I save these stupid trade and signings for myself but since I read just about every post on this site I figured even if I get bashed its ok cuz it wastes time while I do a powerpoint presentation.

But yeah, I go to a lot of 51's games too and Delwyn Young has a horrible arm but he can swing. His defense seems lazy in the OF from what Ive seen and Broxton when he was here had a Gagne like effect on the crowd. I wish we would just let him close since his concentration level and making good pitches is much better than him as a set-up man. I just think he gets amped up to save games much like Gagne. But still, he hasnt proven himself in the majors in that role and the Marlins LOVE Broxton, Milledge, Kemp, Martin, etc but I do believe by blowing them away with an offer we can have Cabrera because they are set-up for years to come while we are set-up for this year and Cabrera can be signed to an extension at anytime.

2006-12-31 20:24:38
69.   Brian Y
OK my boredom knows no bounds. Here is Meloan's stats.
2006-12-31 20:26:02
70.   Dodger Jack
Ned is really kind of schizophrenic. He constantly congratulates himself on "keeping the kids" (LaRoche, Kemp, Loney, et al), despite traded temptations. Yet, he has started the last two seasons by stockpiling vets on the downside of their careers. Last year, it was Mueller at third base. That one sure panned out, didn't it? Garciaparra, however, worked out fine. The Lugo signing was a mystery to me as we already had Betemit, LaRoche, Furcal, plus two capable infield benchers. This year, he's brought aboard Gonzo (whom the outfield-hurting Pads reportedly turned down), Pierre, and signed Garciaparra for another two seasons. Ned also signed Wolf, forcing either Billinglsey or Kuo into the bullpen, where neither belongs.

He covets the youngsters but then deliberately places aging vets in front of them. What to make of it?

2006-12-31 20:30:15
71.   Vishal
[66] i'd probably not use a real live one. maybe a stuffed or carved one.
2006-12-31 20:35:13
72.   Marty
71 I'm just thinking of Beau Geste, one of my favorite movies. They have a Viking funeral and have the captain of the foreign legion fort, as the "dog" of the funeral.
2006-12-31 20:46:15
73.   Brian Y
70. Ned is holding them for something worthwhile I hope. I have no idea about the Lugo trade but the Marlon Anderson one sure worked out. And Dessens for Odalis is good for me cuz Odie brought the whole team down. I love Nomars, Marlons, Russ Martin, etc exuberance for the game. I would rather have players that love being here and I read a quote last year during the season expecting to be traded cuz he got benched for Marlon and didnt really care cuz he already got traded once (from the A's) so his demeanor isnt appealing but I do see him as a Luis Gonzalez clone which is good defense (not great), good batting approach, moderate power, hit for average, take walks, etc. So we would be giving up a really good player BUT we would be getting a great one which intrigues me much more. Our OF defense as it stands looks very weak. And I bet the Pads said no to Gonzo cuz I dont think he could throw the ball from that wall at Petco to a cut-off guy really. His arm is shot after the shoulder surgery in 05. But hey, anything we get from him is a blessing and it opens up playing time for our kids so we can see what they have too. But yeah all of our OF arms are weak and Kemp needs a little time in AAA to get his batting approach to approve and learn the seams of various pitches and see them better.

Also seeing the pitchers a few times helps as you learn their tendencies. Video is such a great tool for these young guys but I wonder HOW MUCH time they spend studying and learning. They should be doing that in the minors too but I have no idea if minor league teams do that.

2006-12-31 20:53:21
74.   Vishal
[72] i'm definitely willing to accept volunteers... though most of you probably won't be around by the time i kick the bucket.
2006-12-31 21:13:40
75.   Brian Y
70. Also the reason he signs aging vets is so that the young players can win the position without the pressure of KNOWING they are the starter and we rely on them. It's a tremendous amount of pressure and then if they go into a slump it's not the end of the world and the whole team doesnt get down on them because the vet will take over again and he can re-win that position and then competition for the vet to beat out a rookie is good also. Ethier isnt handed his starting RF job either and I can assure you Loney, Kemp, etc will battle for it. If Delwyn Young were to win it sending Kemp and Loney down then that's what would happen. Let them earn their roles rather than what happened with Joe Thurston being handed the 2B job only to lose it in spring training and he has not been on the radar as a prospect since.
2006-12-31 21:16:45
76.   Brian Y
74. I hope I never die but hey ill volunteer to help in yours. Does anyone else work better under stress but feel stress is going to ultimately kill you? Maybe it's just me. Wow I dont think Ive written this much on this site since I first came here in like 04 after the ESPN boards had too many trolls. Not to worry, im leaving my computer soon. Almost done this now 85 pg powerpoint. Fudge this is long!
2006-12-31 21:18:41
77.   twerp
70 RE Lugo mystery...IIRC, Ned was worried Kent couldn't come back from injury and decided he wanted Lugo for insurance, since he was going to trade Izzy for Maddux.

I don't think LaRoche was an option as he was either shut down or about to be due to shoulder problems. Anyhow, Ned wouldn't drop him into a pennant race with no ML experience.

Lugo's past implied he'd do a lot better than he did as a Dodger. Maybe not having a set spot and not knowing where or if he was going to play affected him.

Right or wrong, I think Ned's philosophy is to work in young guys gradually rather than just hand them a job.

2006-12-31 21:22:13
78.   Brian Y
77. No i understood why he wanted Lugo but I dont think a half season of Lugo is worth Joel Guzman when we could have easily gotten Aaron Boone for scraps, or Ronnie Belliard. Boone wouldve been a better platoonmate than Lugo also and they had already given his position to Andy Marte and he also was a FA at the end of the year. But anyways, that's just my 2 cents on it.
2006-12-31 21:23:11
79.   Brian Y
I like everyone else am still pissed he did not take a flyer on Brandon Phillips when he got released from the tribe in ST.
2007-01-01 01:13:12
80.   Bob Timmermann
Let's hope that 2007 is better than 1907 for the Dodgers.

Brooklyn went 65-83 that season and finished in fifth place. They had a 1-11 April and were eventually 1-16.

2007-01-01 06:46:14
81.   D4P
1907 for the Dodgers

Make that the "Superbas".

2007-01-01 06:46:49
82.   Dodger Jack
Brian Y:

I liked learning about your background as a Dodger fan. You should be grateful that you are doing business in a red state. Love Vegas!

I grew up in Ontario, Calif in the fifties. Started as a Dodger fan in 1958 when I was eight years old. Koufax and Drysdale were my heroes. The 1962 playoff loss to the Giants was my worst baseball moment.

A Dodger fan since through thick and thin, though I have moved all over the country and now reside happily in Leesburg, Virginia. Lived in Sacramento for a time and once ran into Steve Sax in a Chinese restaurant there.

In the eighties, I used to go down to Vero Beach to catch spring training. Met Lasorda.

Hope to be in LA more often this year. Have a nephew in sports management in LA who gets primo seats. Another friend there gets them, too. No excuse for me except for the costs and hastle of air travel from east to west.

Happy New Year to all who post here!

2007-01-01 10:39:43
83.   Jeromy
Anyone know how I can acquire a copy of the 4+1 game? I'm disappointed I missed it on ESPN Classic last night.
2007-01-01 11:29:10
84.   Andrew Shimmin
83- You have a few options. Somebody posted a link to an illegal DVD distributer a while ago; I won't repost it, but they're out there. You could buy it, legally, from MLB for %3.95, here: It's a WMV file, so, it has all the attendant problems of being one. It's also of relatively low video quality.

If you just want to watch the homeruns, you can see those on Youtube, for free.

2007-01-01 11:32:05
85.   Andrew Shimmin
$3.95. 3.95% of $100.
2007-01-01 12:55:30
86.   Jeromy
Thanks, Andrew. Very helpful.
2007-01-01 13:15:09
87.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm a little surprised that it isn't available on the P2P networks. But it doesn't seem to be. That'd still be illegal, but so is Youtube, technically. Anyway, lots and lots of people sharing Snakes on a Plane, if you decide you'd rather watch that, instead. If you do decide that, probably better not to tell anybody here that you have.

There should, of course, be a way to buy a DVD of the game, legitimately. I can't figure out why MLBAM refuses to make one available. They just don't want any more money? It may be even less explicable than the ridiculous blackout rules. At least there was ever a point to that. Even CSPAN has a system of distributing its programs on DVD, on demand. Which just goes to show that absolutely everything would be better if Brian Lamb were in charge of it.

When the revolution comes. . .

2007-01-01 13:37:27
88.   Andrew Shimmin
RIP, Saparmurat Niyazov.

This happened last week but nobody mentioned it. He was number eight on Parade Magazine's 2006 list of the world's worst dictators. But he was maybe the most fun of the bunch. He replaced the Hippocratic oath with a loyalty pledge. Added a morality portion to the driver's license test. Prohibited car radios and lip syncing. So, nice place to read about, but you wouldn't want to live there.

2007-01-01 14:21:03
89.   Jon Weisman
ESPN Classic figures to show the 4+1 game several times in the future.
2007-01-01 14:32:08
90.   Andrew Shimmin
Will they play the whole thing, next time, or will it continue to be the 90 minute excerpt? It was most of four hours long; do they ever devote that much time to one game?
2007-01-01 15:19:40
91.   twerp
From, on Bulldog & "hall call"==

2007-01-01 15:27:36
92.   Andrew Shimmin
Plenty of money to be made for anyone who thinks there's any chance of his getting in.

2007-01-01 15:29:01
93.   twerp
"It will take an injury or something unforeseen for top prospects James Loney or Matt Kemp to win a regular job."

--Gurnick,, today

2007-01-01 15:59:40
94.   Jon Weisman
93 - We knew that once Gonzalez signed. The outfield/first-base setup going into March is Garciaparra, Gonzalez, Pierre, Ethier.
2007-01-01 16:25:31
95.   rayg
I see Loney getting 350 ABs subbing for Nomar and Gonzo, possibly more if Ethier doesn't hit well. I beleive Loney has more upside than Ethier. Based on Ned's comments after watching Kemp play in the Dominican league before the GM meetings, Kemp will start the season in AAA. Ned stated Kemp needs to improve in the OF to make it on the big league team. If I recall correctly, Kemp was making some progress with his k/bb rate.
A comment on the proposed trade for MCab-I think Fla would want Broxton, Kemp and a lower level minor league pitcher, preferably not named Kershaw. Hopefully, LA can keep Laroche and put MCab in LF.
I think Meloan could be placed in the set-up spot come the trade deadline. He put up some unbelievable K rates in the AFL, AA and high A last year.He could be Broxton's setup man should LA not deal him come '08. They will both come very cheap allowing room for the power hitter.
2007-01-01 17:11:02
96.   rayg
I guess we can put na end ot the endless talk that Michigan deserved to play OSU for the OSU-Mich game would have the same results as today's game. Booty has thrown for 391 yds today.....nice game.
2007-01-01 18:17:52
97.   twerp
Very early, but in the Fiesta Bowl David leads Goliath, 14-0.
2007-01-01 19:09:22
98.   twerp
94. I wasn't posting the Gurnick item as some kind of breaking news. As you note, after the signings, it's been pretty much expected that Loney and Kemp won't start this year. Kemp probably is headed for AAA, at least early in the season.

It's just that as close to the team as Gurnick is, I thought his comment significant as confirming where things stand.

2007-01-01 19:28:10
99.   Andrew Shimmin
Gurnick's commentary tends to come in two flavors: Obvious and Wrong.
2007-01-01 19:34:39
100.   twerp
Not so early any more in Fiesta Bowl...

David 21, Goliath 10, halftime.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-01-01 19:36:21
101.   D4P
You left out the "Obviously Wrong" swirl
2007-01-01 19:43:16
102.   Andrew Shimmin
Note of no importance: There's a guy named Mark Jurkowitz on the Lehrer News Hour tonight, right now for KCET watchers. Not Alberto Bastardo, but pretty good.
2007-01-01 19:45:43
103.   dzzrtRatt
99 Also I think it's been established by those who know that Gurnick is not close to the Dodgers and if anything carries a grudge against them. If that's true, I assume he hasn't got the best sources. You'd think he would, given he writes on the Dodger website, but apparently that's not so.
2007-01-01 20:51:23
104.   twerp
103 Not looking to be combative, but who are "those who know," and what's the basis of their opinions?

I know Gurnick isn't well regarded by some on DT, maybe even most. Like most any beat writer he has readers ranging from those who think he hates the Dodgers to others who think he's just a Dodger mouthpiece. For the most part, I've found him fair and competent. But then I'm 2000 miles away and certainly am open to other opinions.

How can a reporter writing pretty often about one team not be close to it, at least closer than most? I'd think mlb. com would replace him if he weren't doing a decent job.

2007-01-01 21:14:13
105.   Andrew Shimmin
I heard a rumor that Ken Gurnick is really just Torii Hunter's nom de plume.

No, wait, that's not right. Never mind; I've forgotten it. It was good, though, the rumor. I remember that.

2007-01-01 21:21:25
106.   twerp
105. Did the rumor have anything to do with D4P?
2007-01-01 21:41:46
107.   Andrew Shimmin
106- Could be. "He didn't tell the truth a lot."

This isn't funny, on its face, but knowing that D4P doesn't get the reference might push it over the goal line. I'm not sure, but it seems worth the shot.

2007-01-02 04:00:51
108.   D4P
I never get the references around here

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