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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Joe Insecure
2007-01-14 21:45
by Jon Weisman

When I play ball (not that I've been doing much of it lately), I have to force myself to keep cool.

Even in the Sunday softball games I used to play in each week - just pickup games, nothing serious - I can remember more than once hitting that rare home run (say, on a gapper past the outfielders) and jamming my lips together to make sure a smile didn't cross my face too soon or too big. If I grounded out or made an error in a key situation - or even in some moments of no moment - my instinct would be to exclaim exclamatorily, perhaps a nicely chosen profanity off the right side of the menu.

I think part of the reason I got in the habit of getting upset was that subconsciously, I wanted whoever was watching to know that I was trying, that I cared, that I appreciated the magnitude of the opportunity lost. I think part of me felt that showing my emotions might lighten up or forestall any anger or disappointment coming my way.

But then, when I thought about it consciously, I realized that I'd prefer folks not to think I was tempermental or that I couldn't handle failure. First instinct: get hot. Second instinct: be cool.

Anyway, I've been wondering if all this is another reason, in addition to my feeling he was criticized excessively as a Dodger, that I tended to rally to J.D. Drew's defense.

Keep in mind - I have never loved Drew - I've just always appreciated his production. R.J. Reynolds, for example, wasn't the ballplayer that Drew is, but Reynolds is near and dear to my heart in ways Drew couldn't possibly approach.

Drew's stoic presence on the field has frustrated many a fan, and I get that. But maybe it's because I find stoicism a greater challenge than passion that I am not bothered at all by Drew. The guy goes and does his job, and doesn't appear to worry about what other people think of him. As they say about folks who hand the ball to the ref after they've scored a touchdown, he acts like he's been there before. Like he belongs.

Baseball can be a grimly frustrating game, but Drew stands up to all the frustrations - and the abuse - and takes it. I respect that. I don't need to see Drew get excited when he hits an RBI double - the double itself is excitement enough. I don't need to see Drew go Carlos Perez on a water cooler. I really don't. To me, that's the easy way out.

Drew is not insecure, and I am. And I guess opposites attract. But maybe I'm strange, and maybe that's the whole problem.

As for Drew's stalled contract with the Red Sox still nothing new, according to Jeff Horrigan of the Boston Herald. Drew is still expected to get the contract, but with some additional language to protect the Red Sox against preexisting health concerns. Most of baseball is rooting for Drew and agent Scott Boras to eat it on this deal. I'm not - I don't care either way - and maybe that's just another sign something's wrong with me.

Comments (105)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-01-14 22:13:26
1.   Xeifrank
How many people here play in an organized (ie-church, city) softball league? Which by the way, is an approved activity! :)
vr, Xei
2007-01-14 22:22:13
2.   thinkingblue
Brett Myers and Brad Penny are about a wash with both having the potential to be aces.

Randy Wolf and Adam Eaton are a wash since both are coming back from injuries and are considered question marks (with the potential to be very good).

Derek Lowe is a medium-sized upgrade over Moyer. Neither has the potential to be a true ace anymore, but Lowe's ERA should remain a full half run lower than Moyer's.

Jason Schmidt is a medium-sized upgrade over Freddy Garcia once you adjust for Garcia coming to the NL and a possible Schmidt semi-decline.

Billingsley and Hamels are about even right now with Hamels having a bit more potential.

To respond to that, there's also:

1) I actually like Myers better than Penny, but I see your point.

2) I think Lowe is a huge upgrade over Moyer, with a lot less homers, and a far lower ERA, and being around a decade younger.

3) I'd agree with that.

4) First of all, I think the fact that Garcia will be in the NL will be offset by the hitters ballpark, and it won't be an extreme difference anyway. Also, Schmidt is a huge upgrade over Garcia unless he totally falls off the map. Sure, Garcia has better control, but Schmidt K's a ton more than Garcia.

5)Well, I guess you can say that, however, another point that needs to be brought up is the fact that the dodgers have Kuo as their 5th/6th, who is surely better than Leiber, and Eaton, and has the potential really to be as good as anyone in the Phillies rotation. I don't know, I just think that the Phillies rotation might be a bit overrated right now.

2007-01-14 22:22:30
3.   Slikk
Jon, I'm concerned you've written too many an article about Drew. I know your intention is not to sway, but I just don't agree. I can understand how you can live with Drew, but respect him for his 'bleh'? I dunno about that.
2007-01-14 22:26:59
4.   Bob Timmermann
So you want a JD Drew intervention?
2007-01-14 22:27:44
5.   Greg Brock
Outstanding piece, Jon. I've had this "hustle" conversation with my friends roughly a brazillion times, so I have a metric ton to say about this very topic. For now, I'll just say that a lot of "showing emotion" is completely image driven (as you alluded to in your post).
2007-01-14 22:28:39
6.   Slikk
Hahah -- honestly, I'd rather he just walk away without anyone intervening his progress ...
2007-01-14 22:30:56
7.   das411
Oh I can totally respect him for the attitude during games, it's the constantly leaving teams for more $$ that is why we in Phila will always have it in for, J. D. Drew!

2 - Kuo could just as easily become the next Gavin Floyd (or Edwin Jackson) as the next Jon Lieber...

I think the more fair comps would be Lowe = Garcia, Schmidt > Hamels (but this one is already close and the two could not be on more different career trajectories), and currently Moyer > Billingsley on sheer experiencitude alone.

2007-01-14 22:34:31
8.   Xeifrank
Take a look at Guo's rate stats as a starter last year. It was only for one month, but they were high leverage games and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on any team with any better numbers for the same stretch of games.
k/9, k/bb, hr/9
vr, Xei
2007-01-14 22:36:40
9.   Greg Brock
Kuo is going to defy the odds and be the first starter since WWII to be above average without a windup.

I'll take those odds.

2007-01-14 22:38:04
10.   Jon Weisman
3 - True or false. Players who act like they've been there before are almost universally respected in sports.

7 - True or false. About 99 percent of players in sports, Randy Wolf exception duly noted, try to maximize the dollar value of their next contract.

Now, the point of my post is not to debate J.D. Drew for the 15th time, but I have a feeling that this will be the last time I write about him, so I can't resist making these points.

2007-01-14 22:47:35
11.   Greg Brock
JD Drew wouldn't have this image problem if he was 5'7"
2007-01-14 22:55:10
12.   Gagne55
Drew can go (rule 1 violation) himself. He had the right to opt out. He negociated that in his contract. But don't say you won't opt out if you will!
2007-01-14 22:57:32
13.   Xeifrank
it only took 11 posts to get a David Eckstein post. Not sure if that's a record.
vr, Xei
2007-01-14 22:58:09
14.   Andrew Shimmin
12- What's your favorite Night Stalker episode?
2007-01-14 22:59:27
15.   Greg Brock
13 I was referring to Earl Boykins.
2007-01-14 23:00:11
16.   Xeifrank
12. I would've done the same if I were him. He should've kept his mouth shut, but the market dynamics changed significantly. For all we know Colletti could've attempted to match the Boston offer. Drew lived up to his written contract. Good luck to him.
vr, Xei
2007-01-14 23:00:58
17.   Xeifrank
15. So was I.
vr, Xei
2007-01-14 23:04:17
18.   Greg Brock
17If I could guarantee that Kuo wins 20 games, but it meant that TV talk was okay, would you go for it?
2007-01-14 23:05:25
19.   Bob Timmermann
Baseball Toaster is in danger of using David Ecsktein in place of Hitler and Stalin in Godwin's Law.
2007-01-14 23:09:20
20.   Xeifrank
vr, Xei
2007-01-14 23:10:12
21.   Greg Brock
19 When everyone is like Eckstein, no one is?
2007-01-14 23:16:03
22.   Steve
I like the one where Darren McGavin kills the irony monster
2007-01-14 23:20:02
23.   CanuckDodger
2 -- Hamels doesn't have more potential than Billingsley. I think back to last off-season, when Baseball America profiled the Phillies' Top 10 prospects on their website and they had the "chat" that accompanies every team's Top 10. A Phillies fan asked the BA writer if the Phillies should trade Hamels for Billingsley -- assuming they could do that. The BA writer answered that if the Phillies had the opportunity to do that he would say to them, like Jack Bauer is always saying in 24, "Do it! Do it NOW!" Hamels is just a bit older than Billingsley and has been a pro longer, and if you want to focus on their peripheral stats in 2006, you can say Hamels made a smoother transition to the majors than Billingsley, but even with that smoother transition, Hamels still did a poorer job than Billingsley at keeping runs off the board. In short, I think the Hamels who pitched in the majors in 2006 was closer to his ceiling than the Billingsley we saw in 2006. Billingsley did not have his best velocity when I saw him in the majors, but in the minors he threw harder than Hamels, and he has two breaking pitches either one of which is better than Hamels' one breaking ball. Hamels' one advantage is a wicked change-up, which contrasts significantly with Billingsley's rudimentary change-up.
2007-01-14 23:25:40
24.   Andrew Shimmin
Hey Canuck, I was hoping you'd be by at some point. Will anybody good be with the newly affiliated Inland Empire 66ers this year? Or is it too soon to tell?
2007-01-14 23:30:17
25.   DougS
I have always agreed with Jon about Drew and the issue of his stoicism. I think that public displays of emotion are too much valued by too many different people these days, and sports fans place far too much value on them, for reasons that have everything to do with their own vicarious experience of the game, and nothing to do with anything else.

The noisy and foolish see stoicism as carelessness and lack of intensity, but it's really just another way of dealing with the ups and downs of life (to say nothing of baseball): Life is tough? Suck it up and deal with it. Is it a bad thing? The thereapeutic culture in which we wallow today may see it that way, but the Ancient Romans considered it a virtue and did pretty well thereby.

Jon is probably right to note that it is more difficult to master than the art of letting it all hang out; I would also add that it's the preferrable course for people who tend to be ennervated by strong emotions rather than energized by them. I'm like that myself; I don't do anything well when I'm angry or elated, and am always best served by taking a deep breath to clear my head.

2007-01-14 23:34:11
26.   Bob Timmermann
You know people would have thought Joe DiMaggio was a much better player if he had been really emotional.

All the Yankee fans wanted from him was a few fist pumps and high fives. Instead, he stoically went about his work and forever earned the enmity of everyone in New York.

2007-01-14 23:36:34
27.   Greg Brock
DougS is a wise man. He's like Deepak Chopra, Tom Cruise, and Kurt Rambis all rolled into one.

Preach, brother. Preach.

2007-01-14 23:41:14
28.   CanuckDodger
24 -- The only Top 10 prospect who has a chance to start the season in the Inland Empire is Kershaw, and even he may be more likely to start in low A and move up to the California League sometime later in the season. The two best prospects on the team whom I can say for sure will start the season there are SS Ivan DeJesus, Jr., and RHP James McDonald, who will be in the rotation. RHP Jesus Castillo also has a good chance to start in high A, and he is definitely worth going to watch.
2007-01-14 23:52:29
29.   Andrew Shimmin
28- Thanks. Huh, Castillo? Was he hurt? Why did he get sent back to Ogden, after a year in Columbus?

I guess I won't buy an advance tickets, but I think I could happily make the trip to see Kershaw.

2007-01-15 00:10:37
30.   CanuckDodger
29 -- Castillo's 2005 season ended early with Tommy John surgery, which is why he only pitched in Ogden in 2006. He did well enough for a guy recovering from TJ surgery in a tough pitching environment that I think he will skip past low A and start in high A in 2007. Castillo and McDonald both have low 90's fastballs that were clocked as high as 95 this year, and both have sharp curveballs, but Castillo also boasts a pretty advanced change-up. I know everybody wants to go see Kershaw, but I hope some people, like yourself, will go check out McDonald and Castillo. And I expect thorough scouting reports to be posted here after the expeditions, naturally.[Smiley Face]
2007-01-15 00:33:46
31.   Andrew Shimmin
30- I only care about stars. Well, and Juan Encarnacion. Also, let's not go crazy. The first time I go to a 66ers game will be the first time I see a minor league game; I might catch two, but that's the outside estimate. And my scouting reports would probably mostly be about the talent in the wives' and girlfriends' section. I don't really like baseball that much.
2007-01-15 00:52:01
32.   LAT
Like most things, this is an issue of reasonablness. I don't need to see Drew celebrate everytime he draws a walk or slaps a single but a little emotion in a big game would be nice. (e.g. getting pissed for making the second out at home plate). Why should I root for him if he's not even rooting for himself? On the other hand, guys like LoDuca who fist pump and jump up and down everytime they make contact gets old fast. A little emotion in the right spot is a good thing. If Drew wants to be reserved, of course he can, but I won't want to put his name on the back of my jersey.

10. Glad to hear we have reached the end of the line on this issue.

2007-01-15 01:02:45
33.   CanuckDodger
31 -- Well, perhaps there is a DT reader who lives closer to San Bernardino, and is more interested in minor league baseball, who can undertake the duty then.
2007-01-15 01:12:43
34.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm a little less close than I used to be, but still pretty close. According to the DT Frappr Map, Rick and aloofman are the closest. So, it falls to them.
2007-01-15 01:53:30
35.   DadofMondy
Alright, this is my last chance to eulogize JD whom I loved so well as from the get go as most of my favored Sabermetric types (I heart Rob Neyer and DePo) looked favorably on the boy. His athleticism, his professionalism, his talent, but more than that was his different-ness. I projected the Moneyball debate onto him and made him my representative on the field. He seemed to value the walk and the slow path to success (relatively speaking). But, we need to get this straight: JD Drew is a ballplayer; he has been around the game at its highest levels all of his life. None of us have the illusion that he (or any other ballplayer) would identify with us. Whatever anybody thinks of him on our side, he is accepted by the ballplayers as one of them. They don't hate him like some of the fans do. I think he's a model for doing it his way, for realizing what a load of crap it is, running into walls and doing the rah-rah BS, if it's not who you are and if you believe it won't help you. On final review, when Mr. Drew was healthy, he was a superlative player who helped my team win in quantifiable ways. And he had (and has) a great ass.
2007-01-15 01:54:34
36.   DadofMondy
P.S. Is it at all possible that JD didn't want to stick around as much with a GM that might not have appreciated his skillset as much?
2007-01-15 03:10:20
37.   CanuckDodger
35 -- You say other ballplayers accepted Drew as one of them and didn't hate him like some fans? Actually, what I have read is that Drew has been extremely unpopular with teammates, who think he is soft and cares only about his personal stats, rather than caring about the success of his team as a whole. I forget who reported it, but when Drew left the Dodgers, one of the Dodgers' players made celebratory phone calls to other players.
2007-01-15 05:34:23
38.   Gen3Blue
I think JD will need his stoicism and more in Boston.
2007-01-15 07:32:13
39.   Bumsrap
I like players and people with a calm focus and Drew had a calm focus.

Celebrations are a distraction to one's mind even if they entertain the fan that wants something to fill the time between something happening and the next time something happens.

However, I enjoy watching people having fun whether it be between innings or enjoying a homerun. Stoic is not fun to watch but it is better than watching someone display anger.

I would have liked for Drew to steal more and assume that he didn't because it added risk of injury. Boring.

I dislike players that want to play hurt if it means they wind up playing at 75%. Let someone with less skill that can play 100% get some playing time. Dusty Baker was terrible when he was tired and yet he played instead of resting. Drew has it right in that regard.

And while I am at it I think managers that argue vehemently are ridiculously stupid. Baseball would be better if managers were not let on the field to argue like in football and basketball.

2007-01-15 08:02:38
40.   Indiana Jon
Canuck, who might we see starting the season with the Great Lakes Loons? I'm already planning to see them in Ft. Wayne 9-12 April and also catch them later on in Dayton in hopes of catching (not really catching, just seeing) Kershaw. Kind of exciting to have Dodgers prospects in my area for once, or at least as exciting as Low A can be.
2007-01-15 08:09:53
41.   Sam DC
Paging Andrew Shimmin, paging Andrew Shimmin!

This is an excerpt from a recent pool report by a White House correspondent, quoted at Fishbowl DC (a DC media gossip web site):

"The president was accompanied on his bike ride by a half-dozen young men and women in brightly-colored riding gear. One was identified as a member of the White House legislative affairs office. Four of them carried rakes and brooms along with their riding gear; why they had the rakes and brooms with them was unclear." -- Tara Copp, Austin American-Statesman

Let me know what you find.

2007-01-15 08:11:44
42.   Jon Weisman
37 - It has been often reported that Drew was not popular with his teammates and considered soft. However, at least as far as the Dodgers are concerned, I don't recall a single instance when a teammate went on the record criticizing Drew. The phone-call story you mention, for example, was told second-hand - unnamed source telling unnamed source telling a reporter. That doesn't mean the negative stuff didn't happen (though it doesn't strengthen the believability) - in any case, I don't think it speaks very highly to the people doing the criticizing behind Drew's back if it is true.

I realize that it would be destructive to the clubhouse if anyone criticized Drew on the record during the season. But ultimately, I don't see a lot of good in teammates knocking a player to reporters, on or off the record.

2007-01-15 09:17:50
43.   ToyCannon
Until last year I played softball twice a week for 20 years in Santa Monica or Culver City.

If Russ Martin hadn't been so excited about the Dodger 4 & 1 game last year it would have lost a little luster for me. His reaction to the home runs made it just a little bit better. If the dugout had been made up of JD's would we as fans have cared as much if the players didn't? I hate showboating emotion, I love real raw emotion. If JD had been Kirk Gibson would they keep showing the reel over and over. Heck no, it is the fist pump that still gives me chills. An emotionless game is not something I'm interested in vesting my time into.

2007-01-15 09:24:15
44.   CanuckDodger
42 -- As much as we would like to think of the Dodgers as one big, happy family -- well, at least I would LIKE it like that -- we all know that many Dodgers have disliked each other, even in the "glory days" that some nostalgics like to talk about. I have no reason NOT to believe the phone call story, and it is consistent with information from other sources that say that Drew is just not popular with teammates and never has been. Just to be clear, what is it that you think doesn't speak highly of players, criticizing a teammate to a reporter (I agree that is bad), or a player telling a reporter about the things that players in general say about a guy? Perhaps you think there is no distinction. I think the latter is the sort of gossip people engage in all the time about, and with, other people in their professional circles, and beat reporters are people that baseball players think of as being part of their professional world, loosely defined.
2007-01-15 09:26:08
45.   Bumsrap
Steve Garvey seemed to rub his team mates and me the wrong way and some of them did speak to the media about his popularity of lack thereof in the clubhouse.

But, they recognized his work ethic and his importance to the team. They respected him s a player even though they may not have respected his love affair with the tv camera.

Drew's team mates had to respect that Drew, when he was not hurting, showed up ready to play and play with skill and hustle. They may not have respected his desire to not play when hurting.

Drew was surrounded by people full of testosterone that often think with their testosterone and not their brains. I think Drew would rather have a career where there was less testosterone but not to the extent that he would give up millions to do it.

There were times that he was the placekicker sharing space in the locker room with linebackers. Placekickers are not one of the boys but still needed if a team is to win.

2007-01-15 09:29:46
46.   Bumsrap
43 Drew was one of the Dodgers jumping up and down at home plate when they won that 4 + 1 game.
2007-01-15 09:32:00
47.   Bumsrap
43 There is no doubt in my mind that if Drew hits as big of home run as was Gibson's he will do something that catches the moment--maybe not as expressive as Gibson's pump, but memorable just the same.
2007-01-15 09:32:47
48.   CanuckDodger
40 -- Great Lakes may have close to an all-prospect starting rotation, with Steven Johnson, Josh Wall, and Javy Guerra all very likely in the rotation, and with the possibility that Kershaw will be as well. 3B should be played by Josh Bell, whom I consider a Top 10 prospect in the organization, and we will have to see if the Dodgers let Preston Mattingly play in low A, or if because of his rawness they choose to have him only play in Ogden in 2007.
2007-01-15 09:34:59
49.   regfairfield
28 Doesn't Kerhsaw have to play for Jacksonville next year since his contract forces him to be in Florida? Or did we rework that after we moved out of Vero?
2007-01-15 09:38:26
50.   Jon Weisman
43 - I agree with your sentiment; I'd just say that we're at no shortage for players with raw emotion, so an emotionless game is the least of my worries.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-01-15 09:41:53
51.   Marty
I was at a pool party at the Dodger hotel in San Diego in 1974 around the time they clinched the pennant. Just about the whole team was out there and everyone seemed to be friendly with each other, except Garvey. He was off by himself and didn't seem to have much to do with anyone else. But there WAS a fight that night between Yeager and the brother of another Dodger.
2007-01-15 09:43:11
52.   Bumsrap
With Juan Pierre now on the Dodgers there will be so much excitement that no one will notice that Gonzo is acting like Drew.
2007-01-15 09:47:46
53.   Frip
Some people aren't bothered by Drew's stoicism (Actually stoicism implies a will to be stoic. It may be that he's simply devoid of personality). But what if every player was like Drew? Surely that would suck.

There's not nearly enough expressiveness in baseball. Can't a guy at least break a smile and look happy when he steals 2nd? We know he feels it inside. He's on a stage and therefore has SOME duty to emote.

Something similar could be said of people who say they don't mind all the foreign players. But what if every player was Japanese? Would the pro foreign Anglo fan still be ok with it?

2007-01-15 09:47:54
54.   Jon Weisman
42 - I'm not naive - I've never worked anywhere where everyone got along. Somebody was bound to be unpopular - if it weren't Drew, it would be someone else.

I think it doesn't speak highly of a player that he is celebrating the loss of a top contributor to the winning effort, if that player's biggest personality flaw was being tepid. I'm also not enamored of whoever spread the story to the press. It seemed particularly vindictive.

Off the record, I would expect people talk about their teammates/co-workers. I know that beat writers are part of that world, but I think it's easy enough to draw the line between on and off the record.

2007-01-15 09:48:44
55.   Jon Weisman
53 - See 50.
2007-01-15 09:48:49
56.   Icaros
How old are those Gonzo triplets now? Can any of them play center?
2007-01-15 09:51:43
57.   Bumsrap
How old are those Gonzo triplets now? Can any of them play center?

It isn't in their genes.

2007-01-15 09:57:32
58.   Vishal
[53] why are foreign players something to "mind" in the first place? and what's anglo got to do with it? i guess i understand how it may be easier to subconsciously identify with people who look like you, but that's not a prerequisite to enjoy a sport. there isn't a single pro athelete in any major sport who shares my ethnic background, and yet my fandom is not impacted an iota.
2007-01-15 09:59:16
59.   Bob Timmermann
Vijay Singh is close. It's the same subcontinent!

Maybe a few other tennis players?

2007-01-15 10:03:38
60.   Icaros
I never liked the Dodgers until they got a bunch of Ja(y)sons I could finally identify with.
2007-01-15 10:03:41
61.   Frip
The only quality I can be attribute to Drew's non-personality, is that he achieves it so completely. To the point where it's nearly fascinating. You feel if you cut into him you wouldn't rupture a vein, but short a circuit. I wonder if his orgasm face is the same as his elevator face.
2007-01-15 10:08:05
62.   D4P
I wonder if his orgasm face

We call that his "O-face." As in, "If things go well I might be showing her my O-face. 'Oh... Oh... Oh!' You know what I'm talkin' about. 'Oh!'"

2007-01-15 10:08:29
63.   ToyCannon
Stoic or not I still wish JD was playing CF for the Dodgers in 2007.
2007-01-15 10:09:42
64.   ToyCannon
I'm shocked that someone somewhere does not have a professional Cricket league.
2007-01-15 10:17:30
65.   LAT
Pure speculation, but I wonder if Drew's incompatibilty with his teammates had anything to do with his religious devoutness--whether it be his high and mighty-ness or their intolorance. I think David Ross complained about this issue.
2007-01-15 10:24:06
66.   LAT
Really don't want a visual of JD's "O" face.

The rooting for players who look like you thing doesn't hold up unless most here are 6'4", 250 lbs, left handed and Korean.

2007-01-15 10:27:50
67.   ToyCannon
Just to add to what LAT said and this is pure speculation but if JD is really as devout as he says then you could extrapolate that he plays baseball to make money so that he can tithe as much as he can to his religon and not because he's money hungry for himself but for his religon.
2007-01-15 10:31:11
68.   Sam DC
Confirming previously-reported news (release from

"The Washington Nationals and the Mid-Atlantic Sports Network announced Monday that Hall-of-Fame pitcher Don Sutton will be the new color analyst for Washington Nationals telecasts in 2007. He will join play-by-play broadcaster Bob Carpenter in the booth for over 150 regular season Nationals games carried over the team's regional sports network, MASN."

A Hall of Fame pitcher and a Hall of Fame Scorecardmaker. Together!

2007-01-15 10:32:19
69.   Frip
Foreign players are something "to mind" because we're human and we mind stuff for no apparent reason, but a reason nonetheless.

We do indeed "identify with people who look like us", so while it's not a "prerequisite to enjoy a sport", it is a factor. How much? Who knows?

I used the word Anglo, because most baseball fans in this country are from Anglo stock. If I were typing in Japan, I would have turned it around. If I were typing in Latin America, it would be mere truism, since so many people feel this way that hey have racialist rules about how many Anglo Americans can be on their teams.

2007-01-15 10:36:52
70.   Bob Timmermann
I will spend today rooting for players based upon the content of their character.
2007-01-15 10:39:31
71.   DodgerHobbit

By now everyone understands your point about Hong Chih Kuo. Intentionally and repeatedly misspelling a grown man's name seems to be an 8 in addition to being disrespectful and paternalistic to the guy you are trying to "help". In addition, it is being disrespectful to the audience of this blog to be repeatedly forcedfed Xeifrank's pronunciation lesson. It comes off as only you know what the guy's real name is and how everyone else is mis or ill informed and needs to be repeatedly reminded. It comes off very holier than thou after the 100th time or so.

If Kuo's name is indeed misspelled he'll correct it if and when he feels like it. He may not want to and he may have good reasons for not doing so. It's up to him, not you. Doing so for him seems extremely presumptuous in addition to being disrespectful. Until then, how about we respect the guy's humanity and intelligence and leave his name as it's officially reported and keep phonetic pronunciation lessons off of DT?


2007-01-15 10:48:30
72.   Frip

That was one of those annoying posts that was actually more annoying than the annoying post that inspired it.

2007-01-15 11:10:04
73.   DodgerHobbit
I'm guo-ing to lunch now.
2007-01-15 11:11:22
74.   Bob Timmermann
Peace in our time:

2007-01-15 11:15:52
75.   D4P
Our loss is the Japanese Minor League's gain.
2007-01-15 11:21:23
76.   Greg Brock
Sorry Linkmeister, but it looks like dreamy mega-quarterback Colt Brennan may be going pro.

2007-01-15 11:27:26
77.   Bob Timmermann
Is he dreamier than Tom Brady?

I imagine Tom Brady has fewer arrests.

2007-01-15 11:32:33
78.   Greg Brock
78 Nobody is dreamier than Tom Brady, and you know that.

Dreamier than Tom Brady...As if that's even physically/emotionally/spiritually possible.

2007-01-15 11:33:09
79.   D4P
Is/was Joe Montana dreamier than Tom Brady...?
2007-01-15 11:43:49
80.   Icaros
Xiefrank actually spelled it "Kuo" in one of his comments a few days ago.

I assumed his brain was still pronouncing it "Guo."

2007-01-15 11:45:19
81.   Greg Brock
Look, there is no way there are dreamier people than Tom Brady. However, if string theory proves true, there could be multiple people on multiple dimensions, all equally as dreamy as Tom Brady.

But I believe they would all be Tom Brady.

2007-01-15 11:47:07
82.   capdodger
Joe Cool is DQed for his Notre Dame history.
2007-01-15 11:50:24
83.   D4P
Joe Cool is DQed because he wasn't very good. He couldn't throw and couldn't run. Yet we're supposed to believe he was the best ever.


2007-01-15 11:52:00
84.   Greg Brock
Your new Slate columnist...D4P.
2007-01-15 11:55:17
85.   Icaros
I still think Joe Cool's best work was his skit on SNL where the audience could hear what each character was really thinking. Joe was the only one who actually thought what he said.

"I'm going to go masturbate now."

2007-01-15 11:57:50
86.   Pepperdine
8, 71

The letters K and G are interchangeable when transliterating Chinese (and Taiwanese should one desire to make that distinction) words, so I assume that Kuo = Guo would actually be more OK than not.

2007-01-15 11:58:17
87.   Icaros
Actual quote:

"Oh, you won't disturb me. I'll be in my room masturbating."

2007-01-15 11:59:25
88.   Vishal
[59] okay, but he's from fiji. and he's a sexist. and golf is like, barely a sport. and i guess there are some tennis players but none are particularly good. when i said major sport i meant baseball, basketball, football... heck, even hockey. i guess there's a soccer player or two in the english premier league, but meh. anyway, my point is that it doesn't matter. i like the sports i like because they're enjoyable as sports, not because of who's playing. obviously, one doesn't have to be black to appreciate lebron james, or dominican to appreciate albert pujols. as long as the athletes are playing at a high level, that's all that matters.
2007-01-15 12:00:09
89.   Vishal
[59] okay, but he's from fiji. and he's a sexist. and golf is like, barely a sport. and i guess there are some tennis players but none are particularly good. when i said major sport i meant baseball, basketball, football... heck, even hockey. i guess there's a soccer player or two in the english premier league, but meh. anyway, my point is that it doesn't matter. i like the sports i like because they're enjoyable as sports, not because of who's playing. obviously, one doesn't have to be black to appreciate lebron james, or dominican to appreciate albert pujols. as long as the athletes are playing at a high level, that's all that matters.
2007-01-15 12:04:09
90.   Vishal
bah, stupid double posts.

[86] i agree, both seem acceptable. the character is really supposed to be guo, but if hong-chih himself uses the k, then that can't be wrong either. it's like the y in jayson. but if xei wants to spell it his way, so be it. it's not wrong, and he's not telling anyone else to change their spelling. i prefer using the K because K = strikeout, and then i can call him kuofax as well. it doesn't seem like a big deal either way though.

2007-01-15 12:05:05
91.   D4P
I prefer calling Drew "DJ" because his name is David Jonathan, not Jonathan David.
2007-01-15 12:08:11
92.   JoeyP
cares only about his personal stats, rather than caring about the success of his team as a whole

That is one bizarre attitude...when you consider that in baseball, almost 100% of the time you do something good to help your own stat line, you also are helping your team.

2007-01-15 12:08:40
93.   Steve
That flushing sound you just heard was $3 million down the 6'9" toilet.
2007-01-15 12:09:25
94.   Greg Brock
If Xeifrank wants to use Guo instead of Kuo, I don't see what the problem is. Because he did, I found out that the K and G are interchangeable...And knowledge is power!
2007-01-15 12:12:14
95.   D4P
And knowledge is power!

So is gnowledke!

2007-01-15 12:13:40
96.   Vishal
[69] people do all sort of things because we're human, and humans are flawed, but that doesn't make it reasonable or justifiable. accepting that we're flawed should be a step towards transcending those flaws, not condoning the behaviors and attitudes they spawn. so i would hope that as people and society continue to evolve and we become more civilized, those sorts of "factors" you're takling about would become less and less important.

and for the record, i think imposing limits on foreign players here or in japan or wherever is stupid. the market for talent should be allowed to sort itself out.

2007-01-15 12:13:52
97.   JoeyP
There's not nearly enough expressiveness in baseball.

I disagree.
I'd rather guys just do their jobs and be stoic, rather than be all about false hustle and showboat. I absolutely HATE batters that stare in at the pitcher after they've been brushed back.

Just play the game.

I'd rather guys be more like Ladainian Tomlinson (he just hands the ball to the ref after he each TD), rather than all the guys that dance in the endzone.

2007-01-15 12:16:52
98.   Icaros
I believe that one day Vishal will get to watch a Dodgers team fielding three Vishals (and one Vishall), just like I got to see four Ja(y)sons after so many years of alienation.
2007-01-15 12:41:57
99.   Frip
97 "I'd rather guys just do their jobs and be stoic, rather than be all about false hustle and showboat."

False dichotomy, and verbally need not be either or. You can set up any statement to have pleasing adjectives in the first clause and negative ones in the second. But you end up saying nothing.

2007-01-15 12:46:14
100.   Marty
We seem to be a cranky bunch this morning. Everybody bet on the Chargers?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-01-15 13:24:06
101.   Andrew Shimmin
Baseball would be worse if everybody had any particular personality type. Eric Byrnes wouldn't be special if all players were nutcases. I loved Mickey Hatcher, but if everybody took turns setting their teammates shoes on fire, it'd be old before opening day. Drew is quiet and reserved, which would be something of a problem if every other player were, too. But they're not. And they never will be. Because that's not how human beings work.

I don't expect I'd mind if all the Anglos were supplanted by foreigners. But the day when baseball is an all robot sport will be a hard one to accept.

2007-01-15 13:54:44
102.   Clive Clements
85 That's one of my all time favorite SNL skits. Not a lot of people remember it whenever I bring it up, but that doesn't stop me from quoting it out of context. "They won't disturb me..."

I'm surprised somebody hasn't uploaded that onto youtube yet.

2007-01-15 13:56:31
103.   Icaros

Haven't you heard yet that everybody on the planet except you is a robot designed by the Creator of the Universe simply to see how you react?

Some robots hustle, and some opt out of contracts, but you, Andrew Shimmin, are the only one who can think for himself.

2007-01-15 14:24:38
104.   LAT
103. Icaros, have you been watching T3 again?

If there was any doubt before that the FA market is completely out of whack you need look no further then Hendrickson's contract. I wish I could lose most of my cases, disappoint my clients, cost my firm money and then get a 33% raise.

2007-01-15 15:26:55
105.   twerp
If consistent team success is the best measure of a GM, Atlanta's John Schuerholtz has been the gold standard, or near it--especially since Atlanta doesn't have the resources some clubs do.

Bobby Cox has to get a lot of credit, along with some for Stan Kasten, who hired John S., who hired Cox. Sure, the Braves faltered last year. But 14 consecutive division titles speaks for itself, even if they did yield only one WS title.

Does anyone know where Schuerholtz stands on the oversimplified stats vs. scouts issue? Does he lean one way?

Also, a while back ESPN had fan voting to rank GMs. I never found those results.

Whatever the outcome, fan opinion is one thing. But has any baseball authority done a ranking like this lately? If so, is there a link?

As far as where Colletti might rank, I wouldn't think he's been on the job long enough for a ranking to be worth a whole lot.

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