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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Dodger Stadium Parking Plan Unveiled
2007-03-20 12:59
by Jon Weisman

Details are at On first glance the most noteworthy part of the plan is that it requires you to enter and exit from the gate closest to your parking spot (season parking passes excepted). This may seem intuitive, but it is true that many cars tend to drive around the stadium before they find their parking space. Though it takes some effort, you can reach every freeway from any of the four gates: Golden State, Academy, Downtown and Sunset. (Here's how.)

By far my biggest frustration was being forced by revised traffic patterns over the past two seasons to exit the stadium from the Sunset gate when the Downtown gate was closer to where I parked. It was as if stadium personnel never met a barricade they didn't like. Hopefully, this is a step in the right direction.

In my memory, the Dodgers have never staffed the parking lots during exit time. Their intention to do so this year could help. (Or, it could just be a nuisance.)

I'm also curious about the fact that "new pedestrian walkways have been designated for the safety of fans as they traverse the parking lots and enter the Stadium." Increased pedestrian safety is obviously worthwhile, but I wonder if it will be the thing that undermines the attempt to mitigate the traffic.

Unfortunately, the cost of parking has been increased to $15. That will encourage more people to park outside the stadium and walk. However, every time I post something about parking, someone writes in the comments below how they don't care about this because they don't park in the stadium. That's all fine and dandy, but thousands of cars do park in the stadium, so let's just assume for the sake of argument that the parking changes do matter to some people.

Oh, and the Dodgers picked up manager Grady Little's 2008 option and added a 2009 option to his contract. Ken Gurnick of writes that Little's "annual salary has been estimated at $600,000, which would be in the bottom third of all managers."

Update: Steve Henson in the Times:

About 20,000 cars park at the stadium for most games, so the 50% price increase works out to $100,000 a game in additional revenue, or $8.2 million for the season. About 15% of that will go toward paying about 100 additional parking attendants — double the current number — who will direct fans into specific parking spaces. ...

The Dodgers have increased their player payroll this season from about $99 million to $114 million. Much of that hike will be recouped when cars stream into the lot.

In case you were wondering, though, you can't release a Dodger outfielder to knock the parking prices back down.

Comments (234)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-03-20 14:05:20
1.   D4P
Before people start complaining, keep in mind that more revenue from parking means more money for Juan Pierres.

OK, now you can start complaining.

2007-03-20 14:10:04
2.   underdog
Now if they'd only get the concept of "public transportation" down and start thinking about that, too. (I know, I know, this is LA we're talking about. And it's at the top of a hill. But really, it's time to start thinking a little greener.)
2007-03-20 14:13:56
3.   D4P
Thankfully, we have our very own Jacob L. to work on such things
2007-03-20 14:14:37
4.   ToyCannon
Looks like a step in the right direction. Should be chaos the 1st few games so I think I'll stay outside the stadium until they get things sorted out. Everything looks good on paper until human beings get involved with the execution of the plan.
2007-03-20 14:37:17
5.   jasonungar05
Totally off topic, but last night I was watching IFC and this came on. After 5 minuets I was totally hooked and stayed up way to late watching....old news but thought to share. I couldnt help to think of all of us. I also think I wish I had the time, money and equipment to document the 2007 Dodgers.

It's the story of the 2003 Red's called..."Still, We Believe...."

2007-03-20 14:38:26
6.   standuptriple
2 I must admit the public transportation makes getting into/out of Giants games very easy.
2007-03-20 14:42:06
7.   avw
One of the silver linings of disability is great parking at Dodger stadium. As long as I get close, I'm good.

And I'm all for limiting the circling drivers. Save it for NASCAR.

2007-03-20 14:50:03
8.   dkminnick
Maybe it will work better in practice than on paper, but as I read the maps it looks like they have only one exit from Lots 1 and 2.

This is fine if you park next to the exit in Lot 1, but imagine parking in the NW corner of Lot 2 and having to cross both lots to reach the solitary exit.

I'd like to meet the genius behind this idea. Wonder if he's ever been to a game.

2007-03-20 14:53:05
9.   Monterey Chris

I think that map is only showing the entrances. I believe that they move a number of barriers at the end of the game so that there are more exits from each lot.

2007-03-20 14:54:38
10.   underdog
6 Exactly. (I'm in SF, too.) Well, obviously, SF is a less car-dependent city, much smaller in size than LA and the stadium is more central ly located. Still, it'd be nice if they'd dedicate some thought in the future to this, even if it's just more free shuttles from metro stations.
2007-03-20 15:02:34
11.   chazmac138
Last year I saw these two drunk dudes climb into a brand new BMW 7 series car and proceed to try and exit the season parking lot (I was parked in) between two of the waist high concrete pylons that pretty much surround the whole lot. For those who don't know, the pylons are strategically placed far enough from each other that an average car can't fit through them. In the drunk guys defense, it can be deceiving to even the sober. It was comedy at it's finest! Not just the act of stupidity but the guy's reaction once he got out of his car and surveyed the damage. After a drunken rant directed at no one in particular, he proceeded to then throw up violently for about 5-6 minutes. I'm still laughing about it as I am typing this!
2007-03-20 15:08:37
12.   ToyCannon
I used to drive an old Honda through those pylons when the Honda was the size of a current Mini. It made getting out very easy.
2007-03-20 15:08:49
13.   GoBears
I'm one of those who parks outside the stadium when I go, but I care a lot about how others perceive in-stadium parking. The easier it is for everyone else, the more likely I'll actually find a spot outside without arriving an hour early.

That's why the most distressing part of the story is the price increase. That'll repel more people than promises of improved traffic flows will attract.

2007-03-20 15:10:02
14.   GoBears
11. Wow. Did the Dodgers lose the game too, to add insult to injury?
2007-03-20 15:15:04
15.   Jon Weisman
Bill Mueller is doing radio color commentary on Thursday's broadcast.
2007-03-20 15:15:45
16.   chazmac138

Actually it was a whitewashing of the Giants! It made an already great night that much sweeter.

2007-03-20 15:20:51
17.   bhsportsguy
11 Anyone who has been in that lot more than a few times probably has seen that attempted, mine was the time a guy was driving a very nice '60s Mustang convertible (why is it always the nice cars that try that, ToyCannon being the exception), he was not a happy guy when he heard that awful sound of metal crunching.
2007-03-20 15:20:54
18.   GoBears
A little late (and, as you'll see, repetitive) here, but, that LuGo statement about how younger guys care more about stats than winning is just stupid (even if true). There is NOTHING a player can do that pads his own stats that also reduces his team's chance of winning. There are few things he can try to do and fail (e.g., a slap hitter swinging for the fences or a caught-stealing), but individual success CANNOT decrease the probability of team success. LuGo might be right if this were basketball. But it ain't.

(Actually, as I mentioned once last year, I can think of one exception: Ichiro has occasionally bunted for a hit with a runner on 2nd and 2 outs. Sure, he moved the guy to 3rd, which helped marginally, but since his chance of an RBI hit was higher than the next (weaker) batter, he probably didn't do the team any favors. Still, that's a pretty rare exception. LuGo might be right if this were basketball. But it ain't.)

I think the part of LuGo's statement that makes it sound right to some is that it implies that (young) players who focus on the glory stats might (1) try for too much and end up producing less than they might if they dialed it back, or (2) that they don't work on aspects of the game that "don't show up in the stats" but might contribute to winning, or both. Of course, everything they DO produce helps the team more than all the veteran savvy and desire in the world.

2007-03-20 15:27:17
19.   Greg S
Nice to see Little's contact got picked up. Wonder if that means the coaches did too. Anybody hear?
2007-03-20 15:28:19
20.   chazmac138
I think that 15 bucks is a bit steep for parking but as long as I can afford it, I will pay it. It seems such an insignificant amount of money to pay for the chance to see something great. Whether it be a 4 consecutive home run night or someone attempting to "squeeze the pylons"'s worth every penny.
2007-03-20 15:35:57
21.   Jon Weisman
19 - Not yet for the coaches - they haven't gotten around to that yet.
2007-03-20 15:40:07
22.   D4P
It's an outrage!
2007-03-20 15:45:58
23.   Bob Timmermann
I think the gates should be called Utah, Omaha, Gold, Juno, and Sword.
2007-03-20 15:46:20
24.   Gen3Blue
11 Wondeful tale of the elite!
Washington's pitching is on a run--they got a shut-out today after embarrassing us yesterday. I assume they are pretty thin and on pitching and are tuning up regulars, whereas the more fortunite team's like the D's are still experimenting with several options, and apt to have blow-outs. of course, this isn't the total story.
2007-03-20 15:49:24
25.   FirstMohican
$15 is getting dangerously close to my limit. I think I'll walk when it hits 20.

I've been to a number of games at ATT park and when arriving and leaving the game is that easy, it drastically increases the game experience. Dodger games have to have a pretty good ending for me not to care about the 25-35 minutes I'm about to spend trying to outmaneuver drunk SUV drivers.

2007-03-20 15:57:33
26.   Bob Timmermann
It looks like I can still get off the 110 South at Academy Road and enter and leave from there.

If so, I'm a happy dude.

2007-03-20 16:01:44
27.   twerp
Something familiar about the LP for Seattle today---

W: E. Gonzalez (3-0, 4.85); L: J. Weaver (0-2, 8.31)

Ah, now it's coming info focus. 0-2, 8.31 ERA. Jared's older bro appears to be rounding into the form he displayed for the Angels last year. He might even be ahead of pace.

2007-03-20 16:06:42
28.   Robert Fiore
What places are there to park outside the Stadium where you're not asking to be broken into? I used to park on the street on Elysian Park between Sunset and the Stadium (where you were asking to be broken into, actually, but I had a really junky car back then), but my recollection from the last time I went there is they don't let you do that on game nights anymore. Is my recollection correct?
2007-03-20 16:09:06
29.   D4P
In addition to the points you make, it's also ridiculous to imply that:

1. Young players don't care about winning
2. Veterans don't care about their individual stats

2007-03-20 16:12:30
30.   alnyden
I don't understand why shuttles to and from public transportation is not part of their plan. The only reason I can come up with -- they'll lose 15 bucks a car for anyone that used it. I live right near the gold line, what a crime I can't take it downtown and then hop on a shuttle to the game. Less traffic, less smog, and makes it easier for everyone who does take a car. Frustrating.
2007-03-20 16:14:38
31.   D4P
Capitalism strikes again.
2007-03-20 16:17:36
32.   Ivan Alexeev
Anyone else watching the game on KCAL right now? Sadly, Hendrickson looked sharp in the first. Then again, that ump sure is giving a generous strike zone.
2007-03-20 16:32:34
33.   overkill94
32 I've got it on - it was a pleasant surprise to see it when I was scrolling around to see if there were any tournament games on tonight. Luckily, his 2nd inning isn't quite as good so he's not making himself seem vital to the club.

A somewhat sketchy 4 IP performance (2 R, 1 ER, 4 H, 2 BB, 1 K) would be ideal for trading purposes I would think.

2007-03-20 16:33:40
34.   dzzrtRatt
From the previous thread, I responded to the brief discussion of DT podcasts:

[56, from the previous thread] The podcast audience would be comprised of your fans who spend two or more hours commuting each day. I know someone who downloads a bunch of podcasts off NPR every morning and listens to them instead of radio on the way to work.

I'm like you: Podcasts strike me as a slow way to get information compared to reading. But nowadays, I don't commute to work. The blog world is about reaching people through multiple media. The other area like this is PDA-compatible content. There are lots of people who can't get away with reading a paper or listening to a podcast but could read a PDA. Lawyers waiting in court, for example.

2007-03-20 16:34:52
35.   underdog
ANyone know why the game isn't available via MLB Gameday audio? It is via MLBTV, for the cost of subscribing to MLB TV. But I can't get a link anywhere for radio. Oh well.

Yeah, I hope Hendy does pretty well - good enough to trade, not good enough for the Dodgers to keep him.

2007-03-20 16:41:35
36.   Ivan Alexeev
Well, through three innings, he's only given up a run on two hits. So far he's looking good. McCourt's in the booth with Vin and they didn't have much to say about Hendy, so maybe that's a good sign.
2007-03-20 16:43:33
37.   Jon Weisman
34 - I can read DT on my Treo - does that count?

It's funny because this podcast discussion dovetails into another post I was thinking of writing this week. Basically, I'm not at all morally opposed to doing podcasts - but logistically, it's just about an impossibility.

2007-03-20 16:46:51
38.   Daniel Zappala
Since other avenues of funding aren't working, I suggest we pool our money and buy Jon some lottery tickets each week. Maybe if he becomes independently wealthy he can do podcasts or whatever else may come.
2007-03-20 17:00:35
39.   natepurcell
excellent, hendrickson getting smoked in the 4th. middle, short inning reliever it is!
2007-03-20 17:02:42
40.   overkill94
Oh boy
2007-03-20 17:05:36
41.   Ivan Alexeev
Nomar with deep fly balls in both of his ABs. Hopefully not just "warning track power" this year...
2007-03-20 17:07:31
42.   Marty
Great, I tune in for the first time this year and the first voice I hear sounds like McCourt.
2007-03-20 17:08:38
43.   natepurcell
Kemp smacks a curveball for a hit
2007-03-20 17:11:52
44.   sanchez101
what are the chances Kemp develops the skills to play CF for a couple of years (ignoring that Juan Pierre has a 5 year deal)?
2007-03-20 17:11:57
45.   underdog
Never mind Hendrickson, I'm a little more worried about where the Dodgers offense has been the last few days, especially with more regulars starting. But we've still got a lot of time before season starts...
2007-03-20 17:12:21
46.   Jacob L
Jeez, I missed my setup in 3, but in any case I'll let everyone know when I'm ready with a full blown proposal.

To me, the parking lot problems at Dodger Stadium were never that bad until they closed the Scott Ave. gate. I don't know how much traffic that gate actually handled; probably not that much, but I'd bet it was enough to take pressure off of the rest of the system.

The Scott Ave. gate was closed in the waning days of the O'Malley regime in a decades-late attempt to make peace with the Echo Park neighbors, and as part of the grand scheme to build a football stadium. We all know what followed. No football. Murdoch. Kevin Malone. Carlos Perez. Connect the dots. Juan Pierre.

So basically, re-open the Scott Ave gate, and restore balance to the known galaxy. As a side bonus, I don't live in Echo Park anymore, so any increase in traffic on the local side streets won't affect me.

2007-03-20 17:14:41
47.   underdog
Hmm, well there's some offense. A pulse!
2007-03-20 17:18:18
48.   trainwreck
If I ever get DirectTV, could I get KCAL9 and FSN Primeticket? Or can you not get local channels from other markets?
2007-03-20 17:19:26
49.   Ivan Alexeev
As always, Vin sounds like he's already in mid-season form. The man is such a professional. I missed the game on Sunday and this is the first time I've heard Vin this season. It never ceases to amaze me how he never skips a beat and is the epitome of consistency. Finally, spring is here.
2007-03-20 17:20:40
50.   Jacob L
You don't live in LA, right? I'm pretty sure you can get Prime with one of the various sports packages, but I doubt you can get KCAL.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-03-20 17:21:50
51.   natepurcell
tsao is pitching the next inning.
2007-03-20 17:25:18
52.   Jacob L
28 I happen to think that right in front of the Police Academy is a pretty safe place to park.
2007-03-20 17:37:59
53.   Bob Timmermann
Spring is here on a day in L.A. when the sun never came out, it was relatively cold, and it rained intermittently!
2007-03-20 17:41:15
54.   underdog
Doesn't it seem as if it should now be even clearer to the Dodgers' brass that Hendrickson can be an okay reliever and not an okay starter? I'm hoping today sort of seals it - he can be quite good for an inning or two (or as situational lefty), but any more than that and... feh!
2007-03-20 17:43:34
55.   underdog
And Tsao's suddenly looking more and more like someone should be calling rental agencies in Las Vegas soon.
2007-03-20 17:44:18
56.   Jon Weisman
Spring Traning performances shouldn't be making anything clear for the Dodger brass, whether you like the player or not.
2007-03-20 17:50:41
57.   D4P
I think ST can confirm preconceived notions (e.g. "Juan Pierre doesn't draw walks"), but I don't think atypical performances (whether good or bad) should be given much weight.
2007-03-20 17:54:31
58.   Jon Weisman
Well, if something is only useful for confirming the old but not the new, then you're saying it's not useful at all for evaluation. Your beliefs won't change at all using that formula.

Which is what I basically believe. Sure, there will be exceptions, but the purpose of Spring Training in my mind is to get ready to play.

2007-03-20 17:57:56
59.   D4P
One kind of exception has to do with players coming off injuries. ST can be useful in that it can give you a decent idea of how well a player has recovered and is capable of playing up (or down, as the case may be) to their pre-injury level.
2007-03-20 18:14:59
60.   GoBears
59. Unless their initials are ERIC.GAGNE.
2007-03-20 18:21:48
61.   jasonungar05
Bears, u called?

"Everything was good today -- the fastball had life on it. I had good control. Even the curveball and changeup were good," Gagne said. "I'm just trying to see where I am with my body. There is scar tissue in there."

2007-03-20 18:29:24
62.   bhsportsguy
Totally off topic but last night I attended a screening of a new HBO documentary on UCLA's 10 National title teams at the Mann Bruin in Westwood.

The documentary was good, there were many things I knew already, some of the participants might seem unusual, Ray Manzarek, legendary member of the Doors, talked about both the changes taking place during the 1960's but also the famous UCLA press, Pamela Des Barres also spoke about the student activities of that time.

But mainly you got a lot of John Wooden and Bill Walton. Walton is featured not only because of greatness on the court but his outside activities including being arrested for protesting on campus and Chancelor Young recalled Walton cursing at him, Walton immediately says afterwards, he has apologized many times since for that incident.

The Sam Gilbert issue was covered briefly, Lucious Allen recalled that he received some small items that was probably illegal but he did not really think about it at the time.

Attending the screening were some of the players including Walton but of course the star of the evening was John Wooden, who after having his players stand, introduced members of his family and told everyone that tomorrow (March 21) would be the 22nd anniversary of his wife's passing. He was greatly moved by the whole evening and he could not finish speaking.

Whatever you think about that run, does the Sam Gilbert allegations taint those years, no one can question that on the court, it was a beautiful thing to watch, players cutting and moving without the ball, layups off the backboard, fastbreak drills, etc.

It was a very pleasant evening and if you have HBO, check it out next Monday.

Now back to the world of Mark Hendrickson and where will he be on April 2nd.

2007-03-20 18:31:15
63.   Bob Timmermann
But does it have Liev Schrieber narrating?
2007-03-20 18:31:55
64.   s choir
Does anyone know if it's feasible to walk from the Chinatown station to the stadium?
2007-03-20 18:37:11
65.   the IQ of Pedro Guerrero
We have an Alberto Bastardo sighting.
oh joy
2007-03-20 18:59:06
66.   Bob Timmermann
It's feasible. I can't say it would be enjoyable. It will be steep in parts.
2007-03-20 19:05:59
67.   StolenMonkey86
On the public transit thing, I have to say I've never actually driven to RFK for a Nats game; I've been to about half a dozen or so there, and I always take the metro in, especially for weekend games when I can park there free.

I also have to say that leaving the stadium after the game I saw in LA was ludicrous, so I'm glad they're doing something.

Baltimore is not very well-marked at all, though, and I'm glad this one never happened to me.

2007-03-20 19:11:00
68.   El Lay Dave
64 66 Maybe 3/4 of a mile (?), worse if you have to get to sets down the LF line. As Bob pointed out signficant uphill stretch, but you'll have 3 1/2 hours to recover and it's downhill going back.
2007-03-20 19:12:54
69.   Frip
Sorry I'm late and something of a dork for posting this now.

But regarding the notion that new Dodger commercials should entice with highlights.

A person that thinks baseball is boring is not going to be fooled by highlights that he or she knows only come around a few times a game.

You reach a potential advocate by showing him that loving something deeply, means...well, that he'll get to love something deeply. As the 2007 ads attempt to do.

Highlights are snake oil from snake oil salesmen. A more honest ad, would not be the 4+1 aberition, but something that shows the peaceful, once-upon-a-sumertime nature of the game. Something along the lines of the breezy Corona ads.

We're already highlighted to death. American tv imagery is nothing but a big guady highlight. What? yet another flash and bang reel is going to make a difference?

2007-03-20 19:13:52
70.   StolenMonkey86
The box score from the Rangers-Giants game was weird. Gagne gave up a homer to Kevin Frandsden, and Lofton had an outfield assist.

Granted, Lofton threw out Bengie Molina, but still, wow.

2007-03-20 19:14:27
71.   El Lay Dave
62 Pamela Des Barres also spoke about the student activities of that time.
I can only imagine the sorts of student activities Ms. Des Barres is expert enough to comment on.
2007-03-20 19:15:30
72.   D4P
Also related to the Giants box score is the fact that Bonds is slugging a cool 1.000 this spring
2007-03-20 19:18:46
73.   Bob Timmermann
The tricky part about going from the Chinatown station by foot to Dodger Stadium is that the most direct route isn't accessible unless you are going off the beaten path or cutting through people's yards.

I would think you would have to walk up Broadway and then find your way to Bishops Road and walk up past Cathedral High.

2007-03-20 19:24:10
74.   El Lay Dave
Russ Ortiz, bidding to become the Giants' No. 5 starter, gave up two runs and four hits in six innings with six strikeouts and one walk.
Wire service report. No additional comment from me.
2007-03-20 19:27:38
75.   underdog
Just arrived home safely after taking public transportation from work :-P and wanted to make quick follow up comment re Hendrickson and Spring training. Yes, of course, ST is more about getting ready for the season than it is about being perfect in the box score, and even for a player trying to win a spot (as opposed to someone like Brad Penny who has already secured a spot in the rotation and has been fiddling with pitches in Spring). My observations on Hendrickson are purely my opinion of course, but also based on what I saw last year which was, a pitcher who looked better out of the pen than as a starter. Though I'm biased, I'm actually not a Hendy Hater (tm) at all, I see someone who could be a LOOGY or middle reliever, but I've just never seen enough evidence to see him being a starter I'd have any confidence in. As we push closer to the start of the season, I'm still seeing no evidence to refute this and he's a guy who has motivation to a) make the team, yet alone b) win the 5th starter spot. The latter seems less and less likely - to me at least - given that Tomko's pitching very well, a case where how someone looked in Spring did matter. But again, it is true that players should have all spring to work out the kinks and that what really matters is how they do in the regular season. But for players who want to even get the chance to play in the regular season, fair or not now is the time to show something. At least that's how I see it.

Today aside, or ignored, Tsao has definitely impressed the heck out of me in ST. I feel like we'll see him on the team this year.

And now I have to write for two hours while my brain still semi-works. I gotta spare change a little so I can find some cash for a DT t-shirt. ;-)

2007-03-20 19:27:49
76.   Bob Timmermann
Why it's the Russ Ortiz Alarm? I haven't heard that blow since at least last week.
2007-03-20 19:31:34
77.   El Lay Dave
73 I thought there was still a pedestrian bridge over the freeway, the greenish thing on the satellite view. College to New High and over the freeway to Stadium Way. Quite a hike.
2007-03-20 19:35:50
78.   underdog
And the fact that Kevin Frandsen went 3-4 with a home run off Eric Gagne is definitely a sign it's still Spring. (At least as far as Frandsen goes. Who knows what to expect from Gagne this year?)
2007-03-20 19:43:32
79.   dkminnick
58 - Jon, I agree that ST is about getting ready to play - especially for those players whose job is not in question. I also agree that using stats with larger sample sizes than March is generally a more effective way to evaluate players.

But Spring Training has always been a competition for roster spots among lesser players. If only prior stats should be used, then the Major League 25 should be announced before ST even begins. In fact, why invite non-roster players at all? (Insert Scott Erickson and Jose Lima comments here).

That might make for a more comfortable environment for those chosen, perhaps even a more productive one, but I'd miss those March dreams of an unknown superstar emerging for the Blue - the triumphant return of a "washed-up" vet, the redemption of an injured throwaway (Tsao), or the undeniable rookie (Loney)

It's the old "clutchiness" argument again, but there is something compelling about a player who triumphs when the pressure is on.

2007-03-20 19:57:39
80.   underdog
79 And on top of that, it's also relevant to prospective trade partners (again, thinking of Hendrickson). Whether this is fair or not is another question, but as trade action often happens right before the season starts, this is a time to prove merit.

Tsao still has a chance of winning Dessens' spot, btw, according to Ken Gurnick. Don't know how true that is.


Yhency Brazoban faces hitters for the first time on Friday, btw. Will be curious to see how far he's come - seems like a quicker turnaround physically than expected.

2007-03-20 19:58:31
81.   Steve
The only difference between starter Hendrickson and reliever Hendrickson is that starter Hendrickson gives up four runs every five inning start, whereas reliever Hendrickson pitches three scoreless innings in three straight games, then gives up four runs in the fourth. There's no difference, although the runs given up as a reliever are less important because if Hendrickson is in a game, it means we're going to be losing 8-1 already.
2007-03-20 20:02:46
82.   Steve
Probably because Penny was starting.
2007-03-20 20:03:22
83.   bhsportsguy
63 Actually, yes, Liev Schrieber does the narration for the documentary.
2007-03-20 20:13:59
84.   Dodgers49
75 - But for players who want to even get the chance to play in the regular season, fair or not now is the time to show something. At least that's how I see it.

Not only do I agree with you, but I think if we could find Damian Jackson he'd agree also. :-)

2007-03-20 20:17:42
85.   Jon Weisman
I don't think Spring Training is meaningless. I think Spring Training stats are meaningless.
2007-03-20 20:21:53
86.   D4P
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with setting the 25-man roster prior to ST. If one believes that ST stats are meaningless, why not set the roster?
2007-03-20 20:26:38
87.   Greg Brock
Spring Training gives young players the opportunity to do poorly and "not be ready." If they do well, it exposes "what they still need to work on" before they can be ready. If they hit .800 with seven homers, they are sent down "so that they can play everyday and get ready."

Veterans are just "workin' on stuff" and not concerned with the numbers.

2007-03-20 20:29:02
88.   D4P
Isn't it fun to obliterate Baseball Common Knowledge? It has really reinvigorated my interest in the game.
2007-03-20 20:31:46
89.   underdog
84 Well if the Dodgers were in need of a starting chair-tosser, Damian would be our man! (Aw, I shouldn't pick on the poor guy.)

I do think Andy La Roche would be in the "let's abolish spring training games altogether" marching and chowder society.

2007-03-20 20:31:53
90.   Jon Weisman
If you want Spring Training to help you decide who the 25th man is, that's fine. But yes, you should have a good idea, based on the previous year, what your roster should look like before Spring Training starts.
2007-03-20 20:34:30
91.   underdog
Winner of the Least Surprising New News Headline Award:

"Cubs' Wood, Prior may start season on DL"

2007-03-20 20:37:02
92.   underdog
90 I agree with that for the most part.

I guess that could also make us wonder why Hendrickson even gets a shot this Spring... But the Lord, I mean, the GM, works in mysterious ways.

2007-03-20 20:46:12
93.   Greg Brock
But the Lord, I mean, the GM, works in mysterious ways.

There's an intelligent design joke in there somewhere.

I agree to a point regarding Spring Training performances. Most of it should be ignored, but not as much as Jon thinks. If you bring in an older player, and the guy has lost a step and the power isn't there and the bat speed looks terrible, it's a real cause for concern. If a kid tears it up, and has been in the majors before, it's time to take a good hard look at whether or not he's beyond the minor leagues.

If the guy has stunk his entire career and looks good, ignore that. And visa versa.

2007-03-20 20:55:09
94.   Bob Timmermann
As perhaps one of only two people here following the distaff side of the NCAA tournament, it appears that the Female Fighting Olneys are going down in an upset to Bowling Green.
2007-03-20 20:58:32
95.   D4P
Will you visit North Carolina now that they've beaten Notre Dame on the distaff side?
2007-03-20 20:58:44
96.   trainwreck
Here is that link to the article that Catfish Stew posted about how you can gain something from spring training stats. ( I mentioned it last week)

2007-03-20 21:01:13
97.   Steve
Inviolable Law of Women's Bracketology:


Oh, never mind.

2007-03-20 21:01:58
98.   Bob Timmermann
I will tell my girlfriend that she has to go to North Carolina.
2007-03-20 21:02:15
99.   Bob Timmermann
Oscar Robles at the plate for the Pads!
2007-03-20 21:04:40
100.   Bob Timmermann
And the mighty Robles is called out on strikes against Chris Resop.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-03-20 21:10:44
101.   D4P
I will tell my girlfriend that she has to go to North Carolina

It's generally not cold and rainy here, though I'm not sure whether that's good or bad...

2007-03-20 21:43:07
102.   Frip
Spring training is like someone ruining the surprise in your suprise birthday party. I don't pay a bit of attention to it. I like baseball but I'm not THAT desperate.
2007-03-20 22:07:01
103.   underdog
Interesting tangential tidbit in the chat with McCourt on today:
kenedodger: We fans really like chatting with you guys. Sometimes we wonder if you read our message boards at all.

McCourt: To be honest, I don't have a chance to read the message boards myself, however we have several employees whose job responsibilities include knowing what you are all discussing on the message boards. That way, as concerns are raised or feedback is given, we can address it.

2007-03-20 22:16:35
104.   Greg Brock
To: Frank's underlings
From: Greg Brock
Re: Hairpiece situation

Hey Guys!
What's the deal with Ned's hair? Lemme know.

P.S. Dial down the music. Nancy rocks the keyboard.



2007-03-20 22:22:25
105.   Jon Weisman
Carlos Quentin injured:

2007-03-20 23:57:20
106.   neuroboy002
This is off topic, but I guess that's superfluous to say - Very few people take Manny Ramirez's fielding seriously and now we can throw his Ebay skills in there as well. Bids have taken his grill to just a shade under 1M. Planet Manny, meet the people of Planet Earth:

2007-03-21 00:17:37
107.   El Lay Dave
100 Resop backwards is poser.
2007-03-21 00:25:07
108.   El Lay Dave
106 Didn't ManRam once take a fly ball off his grill?
2007-03-21 01:55:34
109.   Andrew Shimmin
105- That's too bad. A two week labrum tear sounds Dodger-training-staff optimistic, but maybe they know what they're doing.
2007-03-21 07:04:28
110.   Sam DC
Which Die Hard villain is the best comp for Ned Colletti?

93 Strikes me as you and Jon are not addressing precisely the same thing. It is one thing to make decisions based on Spring Training stats, and another to make decisions based on watching how players look, what they do during Spring Training (e.g., looking at "inputs" like bat speed, footspeed, plate discipline, rather than "outputs" like did the hit drop, was the SB successsful).

2007-03-21 07:34:52
111.   Bumsrap
Reported in a Denver paper that Rockies are interested in Hendrickson but Dodgers don't want to trade him by himself and prefer to package him for a good bat.

Regarding spring training--it isn't what it used to be. Not that long ago players stayed in the minor leagues much longer and the regulars worked winter jobs instead of working out year round and/or played winter ball.

With players coming into camp in great shape these days there is competition from day one except for those nursing surgeries, injuries. Those with MLB contracts and have locks on a starting position might work on a new pitch, try to hit more to the opposite field, etc.

But if someone is trying to make the team they are only working on looking good during games. Stats do mean something for at least 50% of those in spring training even if they are earned against players that won't make their respective teams.

I believe Bigbie's stats show he is ready to return to competing as a regular at the MLB level and La Roche's stats show he is not. Therefore spring stats mean something.

2007-03-21 07:38:06
112.   Bumsrap
Norm Larker, Wes Parker, James Loney
2007-03-21 08:11:03
113.   Frip

I worked at a small patio furniture store once and a couple came in and asked if we had any grills. For some reason I thought they meant grills, as in what goes on the front of a car. I looked at them curiously and said I'd have to go check. They looked at me as if I was a retard for not knowing immediately. If they'd only seen what was in my brain they'd have known just how retarded I was.

2007-03-21 08:17:01
114.   Bumsrap
A fly ball off his grill? Flies have balls?
2007-03-21 09:06:53
115.   Gen3Blue
112 if is this Jeopardy
Who were classy fielding lefty Dodger first basemen?
2007-03-21 09:14:23
116.   Gen3Blue
110 That actor who played Fritz unfortunately died young. He was good in "The Money Pit". Unfortunately I can't recall the Coletti guy at this moment, but I suspect the comparison is a stretch.
2007-03-21 09:19:58
117.   Gen3Blue
114 And dances too.
2007-03-21 09:31:51
118.   Bob Timmermann
Norm Larker was a classy fielder?
2007-03-21 09:34:40
119.   Gen3Blue
118 I'm often wrong on Jeopardy also.
Then what gives? Can we just delete the word fielding, or is their another thread.
2007-03-21 10:01:15
120.   Sam DC
Another situation where Spring Training stats might matter -- or so says Todd Walker.

2007-03-21 10:06:44
121.   GoBears
111. If I understand correctly, Jon is not arguing that Spring Training stats don't matter. He's arguing that they shouldn't matter. Not his fault that GMs are dumb.

120. So now a team can get in trouble for trying to save money? It's not a guaranteed contract (yet), and they'd pay a penalty to release him. I can understand why Walker would be upset, but I can't believe he'd actually have grounds for a grievance.

2007-03-21 10:34:04
122.   bhsportsguy
Jon: How much input, if any, did you have for the lofty ranking of the Dodgers in this preview,

The Dodgers as the number one ranked team in the NL, what do you all think.

2007-03-21 10:38:33
123.   GoBears
122. I think people overrate Juan Pierre and Luis Gonzales. And that's why the Dodgers are overrated.

Seems to me that this season will play out the same as last season for most teams, with injuries determining who makes the playoffs.

2007-03-21 10:47:23
124.   GoBears
122. Oh yeah, they also overrate Kent, Garciaparra, and Tomko.

They underrate Vin Scully.

2007-03-21 10:49:37
125.   bhsportsguy
123 I am not sure about overrating as much as with Pierre more so than Gonzalez, you have a predictability about what he will do during a season.

Also, I think that there is no question that despite what happens at the 5th spot, the starting rotation, with the exception of maybe the Padres, is the best in the division and I think that is why you will see the Dodgers given a fairly decent shot to win this year.

2007-03-21 10:49:57
126.   Hythloday
122 - I think they could be in the top 5 or 6 certainly, but I don't see why they are markedly better than San Diego, St. Louis, New York, or Philly (among others). The NL is so flawed this year. You could pick any NL team (except the Pittsburgh and Washington) this year and make some sort of reasonable argument.
2007-03-21 10:52:58
127.   Jon Weisman
122 - 0.
2007-03-21 10:58:43
128.   Franklin Stubbs
When I went to games as a kid we'd park in the lot. Back then it was a lot less money. Does this mean that parking at the staduim will always be $15? That strikes me as incredibly high for parking. I do usually park outside the lot but sometimes, if I'm with my mom "who doesn't like to walk up a hill, or with my young son (under 1 year), I might need to park in the stadium. Is there a rational for the increase in parking? It seems like this is another "everyone complains but every one continues their behavior (parking at the stadium)." I wonder if there is a price point where less people go to games or if families go to one less games a year.
2007-03-21 11:08:54
129.   dsfan
Anyone know where to find MPH clockings for individual pitchers in recent years? Say, how many times Penny exceeded 95 mph or what his average MPH was on the fastball?
2007-03-21 11:11:02
130.   regfairfield
129 The Bill James handbook has those stats, but only for recent years. For what it's worth, Penny lead the NL in pitches over 95 by a very large margin.
2007-03-21 11:21:48
131.   Jon Weisman
Are those radar-gun adjusted?
2007-03-21 11:25:26
132.   blue22
LAist is saying beer will be sold in the pavilions this year, though I can't tell if they're just blowing an inadvertent typo out of proportion. Is this true?

2007-03-21 11:25:42
133.   DXMachina
More from SI, Jon Heyman says, 'One AL exec thinks Mark Hendrickson could be a steal for someone. "The Dodgers are loaded, and they obviously don't need him," the exec says.'

2007-03-21 11:25:58
134.   Frip
Yes parking is $15. But when doing anything for fun one should never complain about cost.
2007-03-21 11:26:28
135.   blue22
130 - I'm surprised Zambrano or Peavy wouldn't have given Penny a run for his money in that category. Penny did not throw very many total pitches last year (relatively speaking).
2007-03-21 11:27:40
136.   regfairfield
131 No clue.

133 Good, let's trade him to that guy.

2007-03-21 11:28:43
137.   uke
It is expensive, but Fenway's $40. They do have the "T" for $1.25 though.
2007-03-21 11:31:06
138.   DXMachina
136- My thoughts exactly.
2007-03-21 11:34:01
139.   Monterey Chris
McCovey Chronicles is doing a poll on the best team in the NL West. Evidently, the Dodgers need a few more supporters over there. If you want to vote:
2007-03-21 11:34:45
140.   bhsportsguy
132 I believe it is restricted to the RF pavillion (All-You-Can-Eat) but beer is not included in that deal.

2007-03-21 11:36:18
141.   GoBears
134. What? That's absurd. Leisure is costly. The higher the cost, the less people will consume. Or the more they will complain while consuming (since complaining has consumption value for some people).

Maybe $15 is still low enough that your behavior won't be affected. But what if it were $30 to park? Or $50? At some point, you'll hit a cost worth complaining about (or even avoiding).

2007-03-21 11:37:36
142.   natepurcell
More from SI, Jon Heyman says, 'One AL exec thinks Mark Hendrickson could be a steal for someone. "The Dodgers are loaded, and they obviously don't need him," the exec says.

put your money where your mouth is.

2007-03-21 11:37:51
143.   blue22
140 - That's the ad that LAist is referring to. That's a pretty drastic change to their previous service out there - I'm surprised it hasn't received more publicity.
2007-03-21 11:44:03
144.   Steve
Loaded (adj.) - besotted; very drunk

Who's loaded?

2007-03-21 11:44:53
145.   Snowdog
The LA Times breaks down the parking cost increase and its revenue for McCourt as follows:

About 20,000 cars park at the stadium for most games, so the 50% price increase works out to $100,000 a game in additional revenue, or $8.2 million for the season. About 15% of that will go toward paying about 100 additional parking attendants — double the current number — who will direct fans into specific parking spaces.

So that leaves 85% of $8.2 Million to cover about 93% of Juan Pierre's salary.

Is it coincidence or irony that those who don't like the fact that Pierre never walks, will now want to walk to the stadium?

2007-03-21 11:47:34
146.   Jon Weisman
145 - Already mentioned in this post.
2007-03-21 11:48:16
147.   Bob Timmermann
Do you think that the cost of parking at Dodger Stadium is a perfectly elastic market?

I don't think it is.

In the words of Terrence Mann toward the end of "Field of Dreams,"

People will come, Ray.

People will come.

2007-03-21 11:49:01
148.   GoBears
145. It's adding insult to injury - not only do we get to watch Juan the Outmaker, but we get to pay more for the privilege.

Ah well. Such is baseball.

2007-03-21 11:56:22
149.   Bob Timmermann
RIP, Woody Harrelson's father, Charles. Professional hit man.
2007-03-21 11:57:29
150.   GoBears
147. No, of course it's not perfectly elastic. But it's not perfectly inelastic either. Everyone has a reservation price. I'm a cheap bastard who likes to walk, so for me, $5 is probably the price at which I stop using the lot (noting also that avoiding the lot means avoiding the post-game wait as well). For some people, $15 is still perfectly reasonable, especially if they have several people in the car. But the statement that one should never complain about the cost of fun just seemed goofy to me.

Other things equal, I enjoy attending a game more than watching it on TV. But the amount of extra enjoyment is balanced against the extra time, the extra people, the extra noise, the lack of Vinnie, the worse view of pitches, and of course, the extra cost. The more onerous any of those factors becomes, the fewer games I'd attend, unless they were offset by increases in the marginal enjoyment of the stadium experience (relative to the TV experience).

When Scully retires, assuming I'm over my McBoycott, I'll go to more games, because the TV experience will have been reduced.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-03-21 12:01:19
151.   bhsportsguy
Greg, she got a new job. How close are you to Corpus Christi?

2007-03-21 12:06:51
152.   Bob Timmermann
I really just wanted to show that I was an economic theory poseur.
2007-03-21 12:09:19
153.   Xeifrank
Any insights on the pitching matchups for the first series in Milwaukee?
vr, Xei
2007-03-21 12:33:55
154.   underdog
126 "I don't see why they are markedly better than San Diego, St. Louis, New York, or Philly (among others). The NL is so flawed this year."

Definitely true that the NL remains flawed and unpredictable. As to why they're (perceived to possibly be) better than: Philly - better starting pitching top to bottom, more pitching depth, much better bullpen. (Inferior hitting line-up to be sure, but if the prognosticators value pitching first that would do it.) I don't see how we can be predicted to be better than NY, except, again, better pitching depth - the Mets have some concerns there. (Again, if pitching is valued over hitting. Obviously the Dodgers' line-up is inferior to the Mets'.) San Diego has some hitting concerns, too, and the Cardinals are really hard to predict, though they certainly don't seem to be any worse than they were last year and they won the WS. The Cubs could contend, though no one is confident picking them given their continual pitching questions. So I can see why the Dodgers would be picked first but not in any confident way.

2007-03-21 12:37:03
155.   El Lay Dave
152 poseur backward is Ruesop.
2007-03-21 12:43:34
156.   El Lay Dave
Isn't Steve Henson's math off by $100,000? There are 81 homes games, so 81 games x $5/car x 20,000 cars = $8.1 million. If you count the Freeway Series, which I assume is full price, DS host TWO games, so McCourt makes $100,000 more or $8.3 million total.
2007-03-21 12:47:30
157.   Jon Weisman
Splitting hairs, since the whole 20,000 cars per game thing is rounding things off.
2007-03-21 12:58:47
158.   ToyCannon
Especially since the 20,000 cars games per game is pure hokey. Remember weekday Mon-Thurs games don't draw very well no matter what the announced attendance is. Season Ticket holders stay home in droves during those games.
Expect to read about some of these newbie parking attendants getting run over by some irate drivers when they aren't allowed to park where they want.
2007-03-21 13:02:08
159.   El Lay Dave
157 Then I'm sure Frank McCourt will gladly send me the rounded-off $100,000!

I know it's a bit picayune to point it out, but since Henson tried to show how we got to his total, and the number of games was the only term he didn't mention.... Beside hair-splitting is what curmudgeonly types like me are good at!

2007-03-21 13:02:11
160.   Bob Timmermann
I can suggest a conditioner to help with the problem in 157
2007-03-21 13:05:01
161.   GoBears
I suppose we should grant McCourt this: if he knows anything, he knows parking lots.
2007-03-21 13:12:27
162.   Jon Weisman
I think McCourt admitted this week that he knows parking lots, but that this is a traffic issue.

McCourt also addressed the public transportation issue somewhere that I saw - he said that it's on their agenda but it's not something the Dodgers can do alone.

2007-03-21 13:13:42
163.   hernari

Brad Penny won't start against the Mets tonight because of irritation in the front of his right shoulder

2007-03-21 13:14:09
164.   Bob Timmermann
From Henson's story:

McCourt said parking problems would be eased if there were public transit to the stadium. The Dodgers are working with government agencies to begin the process.

"Ultimately, the big thing is robust public transit," he said. "But that is going to take awhile."

2007-03-21 13:24:30
165.   Tom Meagher
I truly apologize if this has already been discussed, but I wanted to plug Tangotiger's Community Forecast Project. He's trying to get fans to fill out projections for all the players on the team(s) they follow, to see what advantages the added subjective knowledge that fans have can bring to the table. So far the Dodgers are one of the most under-represented fan groups.


2007-03-21 13:31:17
166.   D4P
Do you think that the cost of parking at Dodger Stadium is a perfectly elastic market?

Course, you meant perfectly IN-elastic, which would mean that the quantity demanded would never change with changes in price.

2007-03-21 13:32:08
167.   Bob Timmermann
You did notice me describing myself as a "poseur" earlier?
2007-03-21 13:35:21
168.   Jon Weisman
Thanks, Tom and hernari. I should mention that in a new post ... when some time frees up.
2007-03-21 13:35:28
169.   D4P
Yes, but as someone who used to help teach econ courses, I couldn't let that slide.
2007-03-21 13:40:44
170.   GoBears
162. Right. I was talking about his decision to up the price to $15. In this area, while I object, I'm willing to grant that he knows what he's doing.
2007-03-21 13:40:47
171.   Bob Timmermann
Economics - the soft underbelly of my social sciences background.
2007-03-21 13:50:39
172.   Bumsrap
Ten economists, ten opinions
2007-03-21 13:58:13
173.   Dodgers49
153. Any insights on the pitching matchups for the first series in Milwaukee?

Little announced that his first three starters would be Derek Lowe, Randy Wolf and Jason Schmidt.

I don't know the Brewers plans but would expect to see Jeff Suppan, Ben Sheets and
Chris Capuano in some order.

2007-03-21 14:00:19
174.   Nagman
Just a head's up, Tony Jackson at Daily News has put his blog at a new URL. If you attempt to add this to your "Favorites" (for those of us using good 'ol Windows IE), it will overwrite your bookmark to Josh's site since they have the same name "Inside The Dodgers".

At least it did for me.

2007-03-21 14:09:22
175.   Greg S
For some people, $15 is still perfectly reasonable

Really, who? I'm a huge Dodger fan who is lucky enough to have decent disposable income (funny term). I'm completely offended by $15 parking that isn't right next to my seat. I can't imagine anybody pulling up to the gate and NOT thinking "$15? Are you kidding me?".
I think it's probably the worst thing McCourt has done from a fan enjoyment perspective. Offend your customer as your first gesture as they enter.

2007-03-21 14:12:30
176.   Greg S
171. So let's talk Psych! Behaviorist or Cognitive? Freud or Jung? Prozac or Xanax?
2007-03-21 14:23:31
177.   goblue1
It's $25 to park at Telephone park in SF. Can we pleeeaase move on....

Same 'ol story- go sign free agants so we go to the post season, but DONT RAISE PARKING $5???

2007-03-21 14:24:57
178.   Greg S
177 It's $25 in SF and there are terrific alternatives to paying it. And signing free agents should have nothing to do with setting prices unless you believe they were setting prices lower out of the goodness of their heart in the past.
2007-03-21 14:25:11
179.   Jon Weisman
175 - From Henson:

Parking for Staples Center events ranges from $15 to $25, but most other baseball venues charge less.

The Angels charge only $8, the Colorado Rockies and Arizona Diamondbacks charge $10, and the San Diego Padres $15, $10, $8 and $5, depending on the distance from the park. The Oakland Athletics charge $15 and private lots around AT&T Park in San Francisco charge $20 to $30.


If nothing else, it does encourage people to carpool...

I think the cost is too high, but I've been told in the past when I've written on this subject that I've overreacted. I get more annoyed when I pull into an office building and it's two bucks every 20 minutes.

I know, I know ... you do the math.

2007-03-21 14:30:49
180.   still bevens
179 Then you best stay away from my office building in Century City. You'll be set back around $10-15 every 20 minutes for a max of around $40-45.
2007-03-21 14:32:52
181.   Hythloday
Setting prices is so inefficient. I think people should be able to bid on parking and beer.
2007-03-21 14:33:44
182.   ssjames
180 Plus Century City is the only place in Los Angeles where there are no other options besides paying that exorbinant rate to park. You would have to walk a couple of miles to find any decent places to park at a reasonable rate. At least in Downtown there are cheaper alternatives around.
2007-03-21 14:34:08
183.   Benaiah
179 - Bigger cities just cost more. I live in Chicago and to park in any garage downtown is 15 dollars for 20 minutes and 25+ for an hour (it usually tops out around 40 for a day). 15 dollars isn't cheap, but people who don't want to pay it will just drive around looking for parking (what I do in Chicago), carpool or take public transportation- which is a taxi in this case I guess.

Meanwhile, parking in Phoenix or Denver is probably easier to find and generally cheaper so charging 15 bucks would result in a near empty lot.

2007-03-21 14:35:04
184.   trainwreck
No wonder the Dodgers make the moves they make...

They listen to the message board on

2007-03-21 14:37:39
185.   Greg S
179- I read that and my thought was that those price are pretty much in direct correlation with how easy it is to avoid paying if you want to. In SD, SF and Oakland there is great public transit; parking on site is a luxury. At DS, it's madatory.
180 - You can park at my place and walk and I'll only charge you $15/day! Gotta pay for that Dodger parking.
2007-03-21 14:39:25
186.   StolenMonkey86
181 - Ok. So you're gonna stand in line behind me when I say that I think I should be able to get a Coke for $2?
2007-03-21 14:40:13
187.   StolenMonkey86
note: 186 should have a ";)" at the end
2007-03-21 14:41:39
188.   Eric L
183 Parking in Phoenix is a breeze. The team has lots, but there are also other lots around the stadium.
2007-03-21 14:47:06
189.   trainwreck
Getting to Oakland Coliseum (I still call it that) is easy, since there is a Bart station right there.

AT&T Park or whatever it is called, is a bit harder to get to. Have to take Bart and then take a trolley to the stadium and the trolleys are packed on game days.

2007-03-21 14:52:32
190.   Hythloday
186 - Well only if I think I should be able to get a Coke for $1.50. High bid goes to the front of the line. I don't think there would be any chaos. The market would sort itself out quickly enough. I'm sure of it.
2007-03-21 14:54:51
191.   Sam DC
Parking this year in DC: $10 per car, five minute walk from seat, along the river, ample grass medians for tailgating.

Parking next year in DC: As far as any can tell, they may not even have parking. What does spring up will prob be $20 per car, 15 mins to stadium, no tailgating.

2007-03-21 14:56:42
192.   Hythloday
The real profit margins are made in oj though. If only we could get our hands on the report ahead of time.
2007-03-21 14:57:10
193.   Greg S
191 And great public transit, right?
2007-03-21 15:01:54
194.   trainwreck
I am amazed when people get drunk at sporting events, just because the amount of money they must spend to do it.
2007-03-21 15:08:40
195.   Hythloday
194 - That's the nice part about Coors Field. All of the bars are across the street and there are vendors in front so you don't have to spend money inside. Plus there is great public transportation so you don't have to drive after said adventure.
2007-03-21 15:11:22
196.   GoBears
All this underscores my point. I also wouldn't want to pay $15 to park at a baseball game (or anywhere, really). But as much as fans might grumble, I'm willing to bet that McCourt's "people" are quite right in thinking that they'll make more money this way - that the number of people so ticked off that they stay away will be more than made up for by the extra revenue from those who fork it over (even net of the extra parking attendants). McCourt, in this case, is basically running a protection racket. And like the mob, he has plenty of experience to tell him how greedy to get, and what lines to avoid crossing.

Reminds of a classic Mancur Olson paper about "stationary bandits." They don't take everything - just enough to make you indifferent between coughing up and leaving altogether.

2007-03-21 15:14:17
197.   Jon Weisman
192 - Or bacon. Which you might find in a bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwich.
2007-03-21 15:18:50
198.   D4P
This parking issue reminds me of why I care about player salaries. Some people don't care how much the owner pays the players because "it's not my money."

But in reality, if you attend baseball games, some portion of it is your money. Escalating salaries mean escalating ticket prices, concession prices, parking prices, etc.

One would think that salaries can only increase at X times the rate of inflation for so long, until fans are unwilling to continue subsidizing the process.

Ironically, Sarah's most recent "Take" is that players play for the love of the game, not for the money.

2007-03-21 15:21:24
199.   ToyCannon
It has befuddled me for years that sports fans will pay silly money for beer. I understand a beer or two. I don't grasp 50.00 worth of beer per person. Human beings in general befuddle me but this is on my top ten list.
2007-03-21 15:22:26
200.   Bumsrap
Opoening day at Dodger Stadium words of wisdom: When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-03-21 15:22:44
201.   blue22
Next week, I'll be attending my first Seattle Mariners game since moving up here. I'll make sure to report back on the parking situation...
2007-03-21 15:24:25
202.   blue22
201 - Uh, actually, rather than next week, I guess I'll have to wait til Opening Day. Getting a little ahead of myself for the start of the season.
2007-03-21 15:25:34
203.   bhsportsguy
Parking anywhere in the L.A. area is always an issue.

When I managed a restaurant in Pasadena (Old Pasadena, to be precise), customers would call and ask about parking and I would tell them that as a courtesty we did a valet ($5.00 with validation or roughly the same price it is to park in the nearby structures) and I would hear complaint after complaint like free parking was a right. Sure, we would have loved to have a lot but that wasn't possible.

When I go to Staples, unless I have some kids or parents with me, I park a little further away to save a few bucks, not a lot, especially if its a Laker game.

2007-03-21 15:29:07
204.   trainwreck
I want some bacon. Stupid wisdom teeth.
2007-03-21 15:29:25
205.   Bumsrap
198 What branch of economics does that come from.

Charge what the market will bear, cut costs, pocket the difference.

2007-03-21 15:29:31
206.   D4P
free parking was a right

Americans are spoiled

2007-03-21 15:30:43
207.   Daniel Zappala
I've been working out my cross-country trip this week, which was surprisingly difficult when many teams I want to see are all off in the same week. I'll be able to experience parking and/or public transit in Denver, St. Louis, Chicago, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Washington DC, at least. Was pleased to find I can stay at a hotel in downtown Pittsburgh, then walk across the Clemente Bridge to PNC park. That seems like it would be really cool.

It's also daunting to think I won't even have made a dent in all the available stadiums.

2007-03-21 15:35:30
208.   D4P
I'm not sure what you mean
2007-03-21 15:35:34
209.   bhsportsguy
Certainly costs play into a lot of recreational activities. Movies cost more to see, a lot of people wait for the DVDs.

The fact that people actually go to Dodger Stadium or Anaheim in record numbers despite the cost amazes me.

Also if they have cable (some don't but a good percentage proably do) they can see just about every home game for a fraction of the cost.

There are guys I know you will be paying nearly 3 times to cost of my seats to go to the same games, will they have 3 times as much fun or see the game three times better, got me. There will be some sitting above me who may have paid 3-5 times less money and they probably will have the same amount of fun.

My point is that for a long time, most people have been priced out of going to sporting events, pro football, pro basketball, hockey lowered its prices a season ago, I am sure they are lower.

I think for the real casual fan, it will be annoying the 3-4 times they go but they will probably go ahead and do it but if you go to a lot of games, this will bug you but it is what is for now.

2007-03-21 15:36:02
210.   Jon Weisman
Sadly, Larry "Bud" Melman is no longer with us.
2007-03-21 15:36:32
211.   Bumsrap
What Frank needs to do is put some Dodger Dog stands in the parking lot. People could carry them in, or eat them on their tailgates. Then the lines would be shorter inside the ballpark.
2007-03-21 15:38:14
212.   Jon Weisman
Larry Bud in large part represents the heyday of Letterman for me.
2007-03-21 15:39:30
213.   trainwreck
Sad. I remember when he was on an episode of Pee Wee's Playhouse, where he was hanging out with all these little kids. It was weird, but that goes without saying.
2007-03-21 15:40:34
214.   StolenMonkey86
190 - So how do you know who has the higher bid? That information is not free, but you are assuming it is. The fact is that the institution of an auction requires someone to take the bids and sort buyers by their price.

Individually auctioning off each item would take forever, so maybe a descending clock auction - like the Dutch flower auction - would be the best method (and it kind of sounds like what you're talking about). But even then, why stand in line if you could just show up later and get stuff at a lower price?

The ultimatum pricing method is actually quite efficient. What is inefficient is the amount of time spent preparing various food and beverages, like if each item is made to order.

2007-03-21 15:40:42
215.   D4P
Larry Bud freaked me out
2007-03-21 15:41:19
216.   Hythloday
Or give people a sympathy beer when they pay the parking fee.
2007-03-21 15:41:52
217.   Bumsrap
I find that 2 to 4 games a year is plenty for me so if I can pay more and get a better seat because there is smaller demand I personally better off. If I were still taking family and wanted decent seats, I would be worse off as ticket prices escalated.

Ying and yang, oh the duality of it all.

2007-03-21 15:42:38
218.   StolenMonkey86
192, 197 - You guys are just a couple of bookies.
2007-03-21 15:45:57
219.   Bumsrap
Who wants more loud beer drinking fans sitting near them. Just give them a ticket for a beer when they pay the parking fee that can be claimed for a beer as they are exiting the parking lot.
2007-03-21 15:47:11
220.   Greg S
208 Don't mean to answer for Bumsrap, but what he means is actually an important point. Businesses set prices to maximize revenue or at the point where if it's any higher, less people will buy the product and there will be nothing to gain. This is completely independent of costs. To assume anything else is true is to assume that they COULD have charged more in the past, but just wanted to be nice. Not likely. Salaries do not and should not affect ticket prices or parking prices.
2007-03-21 15:48:00
221.   StolenMonkey86
219 - Just give them a ticket for a beer when they pay the parking fee that can be claimed for a beer as they are exiting the parking lot.

DUI defeats Truman

2007-03-21 15:49:51
222.   Jon Weisman
"One would think that salaries can only increase at X times the rate of inflation for so long, until fans are unwilling to continue subsidizing the process."

People have been saying this my entire baseball-watching lifetime.

2007-03-21 15:50:35
223.   Bumsrap
But if you don't answer for me where would the eloquent answer come from?
2007-03-21 15:52:13
224.   Hythloday
I think the beer upon entrance answers the debate in 208 and 220. Get people tipsy and then charge inflated prices. It can't fail. DUI defeats Adam Smith too!
2007-03-21 15:54:28
225.   D4P
You are essentially speaking theoretically.

In the real word, businesses don't know the exact point at which they will be worse off by increasing prices. For example: McCourt can't know FOR CERTAIN that he will be better off with a parking price of $15. He can have good reasons to believe he will, but that's not the same thing.

I think it's also the case that some franchises lose money, at least during certain years. I don't think every team makes a profit every year. Thus, for them, the options would appear to be to either raise ticket, concession, etc. prices, or to lower salaries.

Since there seems to be an expectation among players that they deserve a raise every year, and since the overall increase in salaries seems to be exceeding the rate of inflation (though I could be wrong about that), the whole situation seems unsustainable.

2007-03-21 15:56:42
226.   Hythloday
222 - Robert Nozick and Wilt Chamberlain are applauding in their graves.
2007-03-21 15:58:25
227.   Bumsrap
I will admit that the more McCourt spends on stadium improvements and player salaries the more acceptable is becomes for fans to adjust to the new prices.

I can't wait for when the team is composed of players all under the age of 25 which if things progress as I hope with the Loneys, Billingsleys, Broxtons, Kuos, Ethiers, Martins, etc could happen. Payroll would shrink to $20 Million before rising as the young reach free agency eligibility.

If those young teams win and are exciting people will come and pay but Frank, what will you do with all that money?

2007-03-21 16:00:38
228.   Jon Weisman
227 - pay interest
2007-03-21 16:02:46
229.   Greg S
225. I'm talking basic business and economic principles. You're right in that he can't know for certain. But if he bases his prices on cost instead of on market conditions, than he's more of a fool then most people think.

Your point about teams assumes that they will necessarily make more money by raising prices. That's simply not the case. And they do have other options... they can be more efficient (i.e bulid a better team cheaper and draw fans- like the A's do). Also (and this is a often missed point) they can sustain losses for 5-10 years and then sell at such a profit, it dwarves the losses. Only in sports but it works.

2007-03-21 16:03:52
230.   D4P
People have been saying this my entire baseball-watching lifetime

Well, population increases probably have something to do with it. It's possible for the percentage of the population who pays to see games to go down, but for attendance to stay constant or increase, all because the population increases.

2007-03-21 16:04:58
231.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-03-21 16:11:24
232.   Xeifrank
After reading through this thread it makes me thankful for two things.

1) Dodger home games are televised (FSN). [Parking in my driveway is free.]

2) I don't live in the greater LA area, but close enough to go there if I want to.

vr, Xei

2007-03-21 16:13:05
233.   trainwreck
Steve Phillips just said that if Randy Johnson is healthy and effective then the D-Backs have the most pitching depth in the NL West.


2007-03-21 22:45:24
234.   ScoutingBook
Actual conversation overheard in the parking lot last summer:

"Dad, where are we parked?"

"We're parked in the section where the streetlights are broken and our car is gone."

Hopefully the fringes will be a little less scary soon.

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