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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Trainers Matter
2007-03-29 13:13
by Jon Weisman

Dodger Thoughts readers know how concerned I am with how player injuries are treated - under cover of, I got to explore the issue:

When he jogs onto the field, the ballpark comes to a hush. His performance can make or break a season.

He could be your team's MVP, except he's not a pitcher or a hitter.

He's a trainer.

All year long, from Opening Day through the World Series, into the Hot Stove League and back again, baseball fans scrutinize stats and scouting reports and transactions, looking for any edge they can. In the midst of all this, the teams' medical staffs hide in plain sight, peppering the media with injury updates but otherwise doing their work in a void few can penetrate.

The best trainers approach their job with the meticulous and tireless effort that Tony Gwynn brought to analyzing opposing pitchers -- with the added knowledge that someone's season or career could depend on their work.

"The medical department has to believe they have an impact, and that they are responsible and accountable," said Dodgers head trainer Stan Conte, who also serves as the team's director of medical services. "If there a lot of injuries, there are excuses such as, 'You have an older team,' or 'This guy has always been hurt.' But I think at some point the medical department has to take it on themselves and say, 'We've had these cards dealt -- what can we do to keep players on the field as much as possible?'"

Treating an injured player is a bit like trying to follow Mapquest directions from here to Tierra del Fuego. Standard operating procedure exists, but there are believers and non-believers, steady hands and shaky ones, by-the-bookers and innovators. There are choices, and it does matter who is doing the job. ...

Comments (648)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-03-29 13:20:35
1.   ToyCannon
Conte may be the best import from the Giants the Ned ever makes.
2007-03-29 13:28:23
2.   DXMachina
"We've seen some major changes for teams that move to new parks in their ability to rehab."

So, is part of the Dodgers' injury problem not having up-to-date rehab facilities? Maybe that item should be next on McCourt's checklist for improving the fan experience.

2007-03-29 13:28:25
3.   Monterey Chris

I agree. I like Conte. Jon, were these quotes from a direct interview you had with him? If so, it sounds like it was an enjoyable conversation.

2007-03-29 13:30:31
4.   Jacob L
1 Except for Brett Tomko, right? Sorry, couldn't help myself.
2007-03-29 13:33:27
5.   goblue1
SURPRISE, Ariz. -- Texas Rangers reliever Eric Gagne will start the season on the disabled list, reported Thursday.

Gagne, formerly a dominant closer for the Los Angeles Dodgers, has missed most of the past two seasons after undergoing elbow and shoulder surgery. The Rangers want him to get more innings before he pitches in a majpr league game and are hoping to get him back by April 13, when they play the Seattle Mariners.

"He's feeling great," pitching coach Mark Connor told the Web site. "He just needs to pitch more innings."

Akinori Otsuka, who had 32 saves last year, will be the closer until Gagne returns, the Web site reported.

2007-03-29 13:37:38
6.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
This has always been a favorite drum of mine to beat. Thanks for raising the issue in such a high-profile location, Jon.
2007-03-29 13:40:32
7.   Jon Weisman
3 - Yes and yes.
2007-03-29 13:40:58
8.   Hallux Valgus
1- only because he can't go back in time and acquire Cory Snyder
2007-03-29 13:42:33
9.   goblue1
How great can you feel with a 15.00 ERA starting the year on the DL? I see politics in the big guys future.
2007-03-29 13:48:14
10.   Curtis Lowe
5- 5 bucks says Beltre takes him yard.
2007-03-29 13:49:18
11.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
The real test, IMO, is if player-trainer-manager communication improves.
Here's a post of mine from DT I wrote back in 2003:
"I'd like to register a complaint against the Dodger training staff. (I believe you have made similar comments.) Doesn't it seem to you that an above-average number of medical controversies seem to befall our boys in blue? Green's shoulder, McGriff's groin, Perez's finger, Beltre's appendix, the various - and expensive - disabilities of Brown and Dreifort."

Perez, if you recall, pitched with a bad finger - and got lit up - because nobody believed him. Beltre, Brown and Dreifort need no explanation. I can't recall McGriff's issue.

"Somewhere, within the nexus of players-trainers-coaches, is a dysfunction. Does Jim Tracy throw his top players on the field, no matter how poor their health? (Wow - imagine quiet ol' Jim, acting like Bear Bryant.) Is Stan Johnston's crew simply bad, misdiagnosing injuries? Budget cutbacks in the trainer's office? (Think "Major League," with the jury-rigged whirlpool. Also, Marge Schott's 14-year reich in Cincinnati had penny-wise pound-foolish training staff; remember the scandal over Eric Davis' lacerated kidney in the 1990 World Series?)

Is there mistrust between the players and Johnston, where they'd rather lie? The first man I'd like to testify on this topic is Odalis Perez.

Johnston, going off the media guide, is an organizational soldier, but behind the lines, if I may stretch the metaphor. He started with the Great Falls team in 1985 and has worked his way up the chain: Bakersfield, Albuquerque and assistant in The Show. I'm not going to lay everything at Johnston's feet - who knows what's happening behind closed doors. But this is a matter that needs to be addressed in the offseason. Will Dan Evans do it? This is his second year as Johnston's boss, so he should have formed an opinion by now. If the team is sold, with the new owners even look in that direction, or will they be too busy hiring architects and contractors so they can cram housing into Chavez Ravine, or lobbying for a downtown stadium? Good organizations are proactive about the health of their players - end of story."

On that last question, I guess we finally have an answer.

2007-03-29 14:06:08
12.   Sam DC
I'm a few days behind in reading DT and comments, so I apologize if I've ignored anyone, but I wanted to pass on if no one has noted it before that mlb seems to be giving it's new gameday viewed a test drive on the Os/Nats game running night. Link at
2007-03-29 14:23:10
13.   underdog
5 "SURPRISE, Ariz. Texas Rangers reliever Eric Gagne will start the season on the disabled list, reported Thursday."

Anyone else find the dateline, the location, ironic in some way? Or almost tauntingly facetious. Made me laugh anyway.

2007-03-29 14:23:23
14.   LAT
5. Hello Texas and welcome to the world that is Eric Gagne & Co. Its thrilling and nausating all at the same time. He comes from another country so there are some language issues which you should be aware of:

For exapmle when Gagne says "I feel great" It translates into "I will be going on the DL shortly."


"Its only minor disconfort, I will be back in a few days" This translates into one of two things: "I will be extending my time on the DL" or "I will require surgey very soon."


"My arm injury is completly healed" Translation: "My arm is healed but my back, leg or hip are now injured by compensating for my arm."


"I am the boss" translation "My agent is the boss"

Good luck Texas. We will try and translate for you as the season progresses. In the meantime, just be greatful you still have Otsuka.

2007-03-29 14:24:36
15.   underdog
Ah, I see by the Griddle that Bob beat me to it. Darn that Bob!
2007-03-29 14:27:10
16.   Jon Weisman
Heck, Bob beat me to it. I almost posted it myself.
2007-03-29 14:40:53
17.   Bob Timmermann
I'm off work today and mighty bored, so it's tough to sneak things past me.
2007-03-29 14:41:57
18.   KevPas
Hey folks,

Does anyone know where future games for the Dodgers can be purchased on a game day? I am pretty sure it is the ticket counter up by the top deck and not the ones by Pavilion seats.



2007-03-29 14:43:31
19.   Edo River
So the athlete realizes with all these sincere people surrounding him trying to get him back out there, decides to help himself as much as possible by taking steroirds.

The trainer in the bottle.

2007-03-29 14:44:05
20.   kngoworld

Every level inside the stadium has a ticket booth for future games. They are located around home plate.
2007-03-29 14:45:12
21.   kngoworld

For outside the stadium, the ticket booth is located on the first base side of the reserve level.

2007-03-29 14:46:38
22.   Marty
Is the first game thread tonight?
2007-03-29 14:49:50
23.   LAT
22. Will this game thread count or is it only an exhibition thread?
2007-03-29 14:56:18
24.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
23 - More important, are DT cuts coming after the game?
(Don't send me to Jacksonville, don't send me to Jacksonville, don't send me to Jacksonville...)
2007-03-29 15:02:06
25.   Bob Timmermann
Have a seat kid.
This is always the toughest part of the job for any blogger ...
2007-03-29 15:03:04
26.   underdog
23 It's an exhibitionist thread, actually. Game thread is next door, between Abuse and Arguments.
2007-03-29 15:03:41
27.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
(Pulls a Sutcliffe and wrecks Bob's office.)
2007-03-29 15:24:20
28.   ToyCannon
I love the old timers who remember that stuff. Sutcliffe was a fav of mine because he could hit. Or at least I thought he could and what a funky delivery. I still think Sutton taught him a few tricks.
2007-03-29 15:46:08
29.   Jacob L
My most precious piece of Dodger memorabilia is Rick Sutcliffe's last autograph as a Dodger. A family friend, who was a security guard at the time (is now a big muckety muck in the Dodger org), was collecting autographs for me during the 81 season. He escorted Sutcliffe to talk to either Lasorda or Campanis the day he got traded, and said to him, "Hey, before you go in, can you sign this ball for a friend's kid . . . "
2007-03-29 15:59:48
30.   goblue1
Will be interesting to see what, if anything, Gagne does this year but as it looks now Id say that was a nice miss that is going to be rather expensivethe the Rangers. Then again, it IS the Texas Rangers so they are used to throwing money down a hole.

It's like im becoming Ned's cheerleader. Yuk.

2007-03-29 16:02:18
31.   goblue1
"...expensive for the Rangers..."
2007-03-29 16:09:16
32.   Curtis Lowe
Line up posted at ITD some guy named Barnes starting at first.
2007-03-29 16:09:20
33.   Jacob L
24 If I have to go to Las Vegas to "work on some things," well, I'll make the best of it.
2007-03-29 16:11:28
34.   dzzrtRatt
This quote from Gagne kinda burned me:

"I know from experience you just can't put a date on anything," Gagne said. "They're pulling the reins in on me, and it's good. They feel there's no reason for me to push it, and I totally understand it. I don't feel I need a lot of innings. But, do I need some innings? Yeah, maybe."

In other words, I learned a costly lesson about my body in Los Angeles. Not costly to me, of course. Costly to them.

2007-03-29 16:24:55
35.   GoBears
30. Well, kinda. Colletti DID make Gagne a very generous offer, and was lucky that Texas made an even more generous one.

Sorta like the Depo situation with Beltre. People were mad at Depo for letting AB get away, but really they could be calling him a .lucky fool for the huge offer he did make, given how bad Beltre has been since then.

Or, it's possible that in both cases, the Dodger GM knew his offer would be beat, and figured it cost nothing to make a generous, but bound-to-be-unsuccessful bid to an overrated local hero.

2007-03-29 16:27:11
36.   GoBears
34. Right. Of course, all those innings he pitched on the cheap in the previous years might turn out to have been costly to him, but not to the team. It's karma. His name is Earl.
2007-03-29 16:29:41
37.   KevPas
I am really glad I get to see Barnes play at 1b tonight
2007-03-29 16:30:42
38.   KevPas
But then again having DH's tonight could be good for me in the Left field Pavilion.
2007-03-29 16:31:57
39.   Curtis Lowe
2007-03-29 16:40:09
40.   KevPas
Larry Barnes, a non-roster invitee
2007-03-29 16:44:04
41.   blue22
Larry Barnes. You may remember him from such teams as the:

2001 Anaheim Angels (40 AB's)
and the 2003 LA Dodgers (38 AB's)
and the 2004 Kinetsu Buffalo (well, probably only Bob would know that one).

2007-03-29 16:45:47
42.   underdog
I think Nomar is still enjoying his new twin daughters, and Loney is still in Florida, and Saenz is DH-ing, so thus, Barnes.
2007-03-29 16:45:53
43.   twerp
"Kia Drafts Big Choi, Will Choi Do the Same?"

2007-03-29 16:47:50
44.   Bumsrap
1 Conte may be the best import from the Giants that Ned ever makes.

McCourt's as well.

2007-03-29 16:48:27
45.   blue22
35 - What was Depo's "final" offer to Beltre? His stellar defense has enabled him to log a WARP3 of 13.5 in his 2 seasons in Seattle. That's got to be worth something, and he's still just now turning 28 (next week).
2007-03-29 16:51:26
46.   trainwreck
Ed O'Bannon is on ESPNews.
2007-03-29 17:04:23
47.   Howard Fox
so did I hear correctly...Gagne is starting the season on the DL...he is fine, but it is just a precautionary move is what they are saying??
2007-03-29 17:06:40
48.   Curtis Lowe
41- Ohh the buffalos, I remember that one famous game against the Swallows where he did that one thing.
2007-03-29 17:08:23
49.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
His stellar defense has enabled him to log a WARP3 of 13.5 in his 2 seasons in Seattle. That's got to be worth something...
True, but Seattle thought it was purchasing the services of a player coming off a WARP3 season of 12.8.
His contract is $64MM over 5 years.
The Dodgers' offer was for six years plus an option for a seventh. I can't find for how much, but it might've been for $60MM.
2007-03-29 17:09:41
50.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
True, but Seattle thought it was purchasing the services of a player coming off a WARP3 season of 12.8.
Half a thought... Seattle believed that was Beltre's new level of performance, but they appear to have paid for a massive fluke.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-03-29 17:11:46
51.   Bob Timmermann
The Buffaloes and Swallows are in different leagues and they didn't play each other in 2004. Interleague play in Japan didn't start until 2005.

If you're going to take it to the rack, you've got to come in strong!

2007-03-29 17:12:30
52.   twerp
Two different takes on the player experience vs. prospect potential dilemma--

1) "Before last year, the Braves had won a record 14 consecutive division titles. Thus, with a sour taste in his mouth, Schuerholz entered this past offseason knowing that he had to erase the inexperience that existed on last year's pitching staff and replace it with proven arms."

2) "The Arizona front office, looking to counter conventional wisdom, recently studied teams from the past 40 years and found that an emphasis on youth doesn't necessarily mean putting winning on the back burner. The Diamondbacks discovered that 12-15 clubs -- from the mid-1960s Orioles to the George Bell-Jesse Barfield Blue Jays to the Barry Bonds-Bobby Bonilla Pittsburgh teams in the early 1990s -- had an extended run of success while featuring players age 25 or younger."

Naturally, I seem to have lost the link to where the Diamondback item appeared. It wasn't the D'backs' site, tho it could be there somewhere. If anyone's up for a scavenger hunt, it's out there on the wild, wild, web...

A question: is there a general belief that pitchers need more experience than position players before they're ML-ready?

2007-03-29 17:17:39
53.   Curtis Lowe
51-... Maybe it was the Hiroshima Carps.
2007-03-29 17:21:37
54.   NPB
Thank you, Jon. That makes me feel better about the season to come than anything I've read. I'm a Phoenix Suns fan, and I'm convinced that their amazing run the last three years is at least partly due to an outstanding training staff.
2007-03-29 17:22:24
55.   Bob Timmermann
You've still got the wrong league!

In 2004 the Buffaloes would have played against the Lions, Hawks, Marines, Blue Wave, and Fighters.

2007-03-29 17:28:15
56.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers and the former Kintetsu (now Orix) Buffaloes have a working arrangement which is why Barnes went over to Japan. But it looks like he only got into 34 games.
2007-03-29 17:36:13
57.   Curtis Lowe
55- Maybe I went in 2005 and maybe Barnes didn't play but I'm pretty sure his memory lived on.
2007-03-29 17:49:50
58.   Bob Timmermann
That's more likely. I'm sure Barnes' stay in Osaka was memorable.
2007-03-29 17:52:55
59.   Curtis Lowe
Next time I'm in Japan I shouldn't abuse the right to drink anywhere I want. Might help make my stories less ficticious
2007-03-29 17:57:45
60.   Improbable88
Speaking of trainers, I saw former trainer Matt Wilson at the Target in Upland this past week.

I wanted to go up to him and talk a little Dodgers baseball until I remembered that he had been fired this year.

That is, after all, why he was shopping at Target in Upland and not misjudging more injuries in Florida.

Is it perverse or strange to want to shake the hand that rubbed down Gagne's shoulder during his Cy Young winning season? Or the hands that bandaged Nomar so he could hit the homerun off Seanez in the 10th?

Maybe it is, but I still wanted to do it.

His sons whisked him away to the Pizza Hut line before I could conjur up a way to say hi and talk baseball without addressing his recent firing.

Oh, well.

2007-03-29 18:40:43
61.   Gen3Blue
Could Bigbie go to Japan?
2007-03-29 18:42:40
62.   Gen3Blue
Take the 77,000$ you ignorant cow. Sorry I was watching Deal or no Deal out of a bad corner of my eye.
2007-03-29 18:55:11
63.   Bob Timmermann
You are looking live at Dodger Stadium! It's a beautiful night in Chavez Ravine.
2007-03-29 18:55:19
64.   El Lay Dave
52 Your second quote is from this article:
as linked here:
2007-03-29 18:56:09
65.   Gen3Blue
Improbable, but I believe-and a good story.
2007-03-29 18:57:23
66.   D4P
MLB has a Gameday for tonight's game. It looks different than it has in the past.
2007-03-29 18:58:43
67.   El Lay Dave
52 Oh, my answer: I think generally not. I didn't count, but doesn't it seem that young, stud arms show up sooner than position players, especially in middle relief and such?
2007-03-29 18:59:35
68.   D4P
I'm not sure how this will work in the game, but the Gameday includes a computerized view (from behind home plate) of a batter, the plate and the mound. You can shift the view, either to the left or the right, or you can choose a view from the mound.
2007-03-29 19:03:20
69.   underdog
68 Does it have a computerized Rick Monday misjudging flyballs?
2007-03-29 19:06:08
70.   Greg Brock
It's tiiiiiiiime for Dodger Baseball!
2007-03-29 19:06:36
71.   Gen3Blue
The Cow lost it all!
Great. This new Gameday promises to magnify the gameday problems to truly frustrating heights.
2007-03-29 19:07:21
72.   underdog
Hah. Rick Monday's asking Steve Lyons when he would start going to his "A game" at this time of year... Did Steve Lyons ever have an A game?
2007-03-29 19:07:22
73.   D4P
No, but it does have a computerized Charlie Steiner misjudging flyballs
2007-03-29 19:08:19
74.   El Lay Dave
Jon, fine article. You'd think teams would willingly pony up significant resources to protect their large investments in the players. Big salaries, long season... and yet, as you quoted Will Carroll, "You could count the number of teams that take a baseline MRI of their pitchers once a year on half a hand. Less than 20 percent use high speed video or motion capture." Penny wise, pound foolish.
2007-03-29 19:08:57
75.   underdog
Ahhhhh.... but now it's the dulcet tones of Vin Scully and all is once again right with the world.
2007-03-29 19:09:09
76.   El Lay Dave
72 Steve Lyons had a BA game.
2007-03-29 19:10:34
77.   underdog
74 "Penny wise, pound foolish."

I think you got that reversed.

2007-03-29 19:11:00
78.   El Lay Dave
Hey Bob, how was the parking getting in?
2007-03-29 19:13:37
79.   Bob Timmermann
It is a small crowd so parking was a breeze.
2007-03-29 19:13:39
80.   El Lay Dave
77 Naw, check out pound.
2007-03-29 19:14:08
81.   Gen3Blue
Oh-oh I think two people tried to log on to this improved Gameday.
2007-03-29 19:14:41
82.   El Lay Dave
Did the $15 parking rate take effect already, or do fans catch a "break" before Opening Day?
2007-03-29 19:16:16
83.   underdog
80 Heh. I was thinking of Brad Penny, and his foolishness, and his pounds. But supposedly he has less of them this year - pounds, not necessarily foolishness.
2007-03-29 19:16:39
84.   twerp
64 Thanks. Brainlock resolved.

67 I kind of thought there probably wouldn't/shouldn't be much difference. Either a pitcher or position player would be called up when a team thought he was ready to help them and the team had a need.

But I wondered if such a practical approach might violate a MLB Commandment/tradition or something.

2007-03-29 19:19:06
85.   regfairfield
Christina Kahrl mentioned recently that it's a lot easier for a young pitcher to break in. Generally when a pitcher is ready, he's ready and he doesn't need to develop further.

Could mean interesting things for Kershaw.

2007-03-29 19:22:52
86.   Greg Brock
I'm trying not to laugh...
2007-03-29 19:23:29
87.   El Lay Dave
Just look to the neighbors for examples: KRod, J. Weaver the younger.

BTW, I do agree with Ned that you have to have some veteran balance with the youth; we just disagree on where the fulcrum is.

2007-03-29 19:25:50
88.   El Lay Dave
83 That was actually the only hit when I searched for "pound". I should point out that, serendipitously enough, he did play for Brooklyn. (Although they weren't the Dodgers, yet.)
2007-03-29 19:26:27
89.   D4P
Just Another Called Strike Followed By A Groundout For Pierre
2007-03-29 19:27:04
90.   El Lay Dave
86 Stifle yerself, Brock. Whatso funny anyway?
2007-03-29 19:27:35
91.   El Lay Dave
89 Was it 4-3?
2007-03-29 19:28:07
92.   Gen3Blue
At least I didn't get sucked into trying and of MLB's pay products.
2007-03-29 19:28:46
93.   Greg Brock
90 SoGo...Strike One, ground out.
2007-03-29 19:28:55
94.   Eric Enders
Saenz DHing tonight.

When was the last time a DH was used in a game at Dodger Stadium? Has it always been used in the Freeway Series?

2007-03-29 19:30:45
95.   Eric Enders
Wow, Vinny reads Baseball Prospectus... he just gave a direct quote (without attribution) from BP2007's comment on Howie Kendrick.
2007-03-29 19:30:46
96.   D4P
Was it 4-3?

I think he actually went the other way

2007-03-29 19:32:06
97.   Gen3Blue
Gameday is hopelessly FUBARed
2007-03-29 19:34:00
98.   natepurcell
why is wolf only hitting 84 on his fastball?
2007-03-29 19:34:30
99.   regfairfield
I've got no real problem with booing, but do you really need to boo a guy who bobbled a ball during a game that doesn't mean anything?
2007-03-29 19:34:37
100.   Eric Enders
And the Angels take the lead on an Ethierror.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-03-29 19:35:11
101.   underdog
Ethier had some trouble with that base hit, allowing a run to score after his juggling act. Wolf's not off to the greatest start here... But hey, it's still, as Rick Monday called it earlier, "training."
2007-03-29 19:36:28
102.   regfairfield
We have the worst fans in the world.
2007-03-29 19:36:32
103.   Eric Enders
That 2-2 pitch from Wolf was called a ball. I guess it was too much down the middle.
2007-03-29 19:36:51
104.   Greg Brock
Booing the Dodgers in an exhibition game. The first game at Dodger Stadium this year.


2007-03-29 19:36:57
105.   Eric Enders
And the ump gives the Angels a run. Good thing this one doesn't count.
2007-03-29 19:40:23
106.   Bob Timmermann
ToyCannon and I are not booing. We were going Boo-urns.
2007-03-29 19:41:39
107.   Greg Brock
106 I thought you guys were just big Larry Barnes fans.

You know..."Boooo-arnes"

2007-03-29 19:41:50
108.   El Lay Dave
Perhaps the booing was because Ethier was in RF at all to make that error, instead of in LF?
2007-03-29 19:42:44
109.   Marty
They're booing because they wish JD was in right.
2007-03-29 19:43:57
110.   regfairfield
109 Something tells me the people booing are either very happy J.D. is off the team, they assume that is J.D. Drew, or have no clue who J.D. Drew is.
2007-03-29 19:48:18
111.   BruceR
Hey, had anyone here in years past signed up for the Gameday audio package ??? Can I assume it's the teams' radio announcers that are on the Gameday-cast ??? If that's right, how often has it been Vinnie ??? Also, how reliable is it ???

Thanks in advance for the info. Living in CO, it seems like it might be the 2nd best alternative -- after DT...thanks, all -- for staying up-to-date with the Blue.

2007-03-29 19:49:58
112.   BruceR
111 "...has anyone..." Sheesh.
2007-03-29 19:50:59
113.   Bob Timmermann
Vin does the first three innings on radio.
2007-03-29 19:52:30
114.   Greg Brock
If Wilson Betemit only weighs 200 pounds, I am the King of Siam.
2007-03-29 19:53:51
115.   Bob Timmermann
It is indeed a puzzlement
2007-03-29 19:55:26
116.   underdog
113... for home games and California (and Colo) games.

Gameday works pretty well for Windows users. Mac users have bugginess, as I can attest, though there are some fixes for it. Helps to have a real fast connection. But it's worth it if you're not in the LA area.

114 Who said that? Vinnie was just talking about how big Betemit is.

Nicely done, Ethier!

2007-03-29 19:55:40
117.   dsfan
Over the years, trainer Conte has struck me as someone who is in love with the sound of his own voice, a self-promoter who understands how to leverage media attention into greater job security. Hat's off to him for pulling it off. But he's nothing special as a trainer.
2007-03-29 19:57:03
118.   dsfan
Over the years, trainer Conte has struck me as someone who is in love with the sound of his own voice, a self-promoter who understands how to leverage media attention into greater job security. Hat's off to him for pulling it off. But he's nothing special as a trainer.
2007-03-29 19:57:14
119.   underdog
(I believe Betemit is more accurately listed as 230 lbs. Gameday's got it's cyber-head up it's...) {cough}
2007-03-29 19:57:21
120.   Greg Brock
116 Vinnie was talking about Betemit doing backflips, and then said "Which is truly amazing for a guy who is 6'3", 200 pounds."
2007-03-29 19:58:19
121.   underdog
Gosh, I'm always irritated when people write "it's" when they mean "its" and there I just went and did it twice. I hide my head in shame. And take this opportunity to get back to writing, even if it's.. the last thing I want to do write now.
2007-03-29 19:59:58
122.   underdog
120 Oh, hm, didn't listen to Vin very hard, apparently, but I noticed Gameday has it wrong, too. His official player listing (on ESPN, etc.) lists him as 230.

Well, Gary Matthews Jr just did what he does best, rob someone of a hit.

2007-03-29 20:08:00
123.   natepurcell
a rabbit is loose!
2007-03-29 20:09:31
124.   Gen3Blue
I was jealous of you guys cause on the east coast gameday isn't working and the "live" box is slow, but I don't seem to be missing much good. After the east coast game I thought we must have sent most of our pro players west(esp. pitchers.)
2007-03-29 20:09:38
125.   Greg Brock
2007-03-29 20:10:15
126.   underdog
The "rabbit" is cooked.
2007-03-29 20:10:44
127.   underdog
Booo-arnes! Booo-arnes!
2007-03-29 20:11:52
128.   D4P
Thou shalt not steal
2007-03-29 20:13:10
129.   BruceR
113, 116 Thanks for the info !!! I'm thinking the whole season -- plus a three-month subscription to SI Jon -- for $15 seems like a pretty good deal.
2007-03-29 20:14:44
130.   underdog
Wow, I didn't realize Charlie Steiner's mom had passed away (she was elderly, but still, I feel sad for him).
2007-03-29 20:18:13
131.   Bob Timmermann
That CS was sponsored by the LA County Sheriff's Department.

So sayeth the ad board.

2007-03-29 20:19:07
132.   D4P
Who sponsored Pierre's CS...?
2007-03-29 20:28:28
133.   Greg Brock
Billingsley got hosed on a strike three no-call.


2007-03-29 20:30:15
134.   Bob Timmermann
The PA announcer has changed without explanation.
2007-03-29 20:31:45
135.   Bob Timmermann
Tsao warming up.
2007-03-29 20:32:52
136.   subclub
132 I believe Pierre's CS was sponsored by Dodger fans shelling out an extra $5 for parking this year.
2007-03-29 20:34:31
137.   Eric Stephen
I went through the 2007 predictions thread and tallied the results:

51 total predictions, plus two more from Eric Enders and El Lay Dave that didn't have records (although they both predicted playoffs). There were a few predictions that had multiple records; in those cases, I used the first prediction.

The average record (both the mean and median) was 89-73.

4 people predicted 100+ wins
21 predicted 90-94 wins
24 predicted 81-89 wins
2 predicted under .500

The most common record picked was 90-72.

2007-03-29 20:41:15
138.   Jon Weisman
137 - Let the record show that Dodger Thoughts predictor/commenters are not negative. Thanks.
2007-03-29 20:42:32
139.   Jon Weisman
As long as the record is showing things, it's worth noting that Tony Abreu set a modern Dodger record by coming back before press reports suggested.
2007-03-29 20:45:22
140.   natepurcell
billz is cruising.
2007-03-29 20:46:26
141.   JJ42
Billingsley is going to be in the rotation by May
2007-03-29 20:47:04
142.   Bob Timmermann
In the flurry of lineup changes I missed Kendrick's at bat. What did he do?
2007-03-29 20:49:07
143.   Greg Brock
Kendrick grounded out 6-3
2007-03-29 20:50:05
144.   Benaiah
Billingsley proves the wisdom of moving him to the pen by pitching well out of it. He will be a great long innings guy for when Tomko gives up a half dozen runs.
2007-03-29 20:50:22
145.   D4P
Is there anyone, anywhere, who thinks Tomko is better than Billingsley?

(At pitching, not drawing)

2007-03-29 20:51:38
146.   natepurcell

i dont think anyone thinks tomko is better then billingsley. I think the dodgers are thinking in Billingsley's long term future by having him break into the big leagues in the bullpen.

hes only 22, no rush i guess.

2007-03-29 20:52:55
147.   underdog
Mrs. Tomko?
2007-03-29 20:57:30
148.   Greg Brock
Mike Scoscia is awfully concerned about a stolen base right here. Which is completely crazy.

There are two outs, Mike.

2007-03-29 20:57:51
149.   natepurcell
tony jackson has a logan white fluff piece up.
2007-03-29 21:00:39
150.   Benaiah
OT: I watched the Office Marathon tonight and I noticed that the show has a wonderful continuity. For example, Stanley reveals that he bought a toaster as a present for Pam's wedding and got stuck with it, and then he brought a toaster to Phyllis's wedding. Plus, Ed Helms freaks out the first time that Jim pulls a practical joke on him (it involved jello), so that wall punching wasn't really out of the blue. On the other hand, Kelly isn't anything like she was originally conceived.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-03-29 21:03:03
151.   Greg Brock
Tsao has a very nice little slider.
2007-03-29 21:07:46
152.   JoeyP
It might just be that Billingsley replaces Wolf.

Aside from being left handed, what does Randy bring to the table?

2007-03-29 21:08:53
153.   natepurcell


2007-03-29 21:09:26
154.   Greg Brock
Man, Tsao has got stuff. If he knew where the ball was going, he'd be a stud.
2007-03-29 21:09:48
155.   natepurcell
tsao Ks the side. nice.
2007-03-29 21:10:19
156.   natepurcell

Injuries have limited his ability to use his golden arm the last couple of years. maybe hes just rusty with control a bit.

2007-03-29 21:12:00
157.   regfairfield
152 Eight million dollars.
2007-03-29 21:19:09
158.   Bob Timmermann
The Angels playing now do not have uniforms which are all the same shade of red.
2007-03-29 21:20:08
159.   Andrew Shimmin
Well, you don't see that every day.
2007-03-29 21:20:24
160.   D4P
Steve Lyons just quasi-predicted that triple play
2007-03-29 21:20:32
161.   Bob Timmermann
I can now die in peace.
2007-03-29 21:20:33
162.   Jon Weisman
Three triple plays for the Angels this month.
2007-03-29 21:20:50
163.   JJ42
2007-03-29 21:21:15
164.   Greg Brock
I was just about to say what a snoozefest this game has been.

Until we hit into a triple play...Bahh

2007-03-29 21:21:24
165.   Eric Enders
Has anyone else ever hit into a triple play in his first AB as a Dodger?

Garey Ingram he ain't.

2007-03-29 21:21:30
166.   Snowdog
4-3 triple play
2007-03-29 21:21:35
167.   underdog
Yeah not only a triple play, but Steve Lyons calling it beforehand. I'm waiting now for the demon monkeys to fly out the crevices of the earth, the four horsemen and all the other signs.
2007-03-29 21:21:51
168.   FN Bevacqua
Have we ever had a tp in the freeway series before?

Ross Porter are you looking that one up for us?

2007-03-29 21:22:02
169.   underdog
Well, at least Clark hit it well!
2007-03-29 21:24:13
170.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Was that Clark's first AB for the Dodgers?
2007-03-29 21:24:27
171.   Eric Enders
Hereby presenting the first of 262 times this year Vinny will tell us about Joe Beimel's new tattoo.
2007-03-29 21:25:43
172.   dzzrtRatt
According to Steve Lyons, a triple play is a rally-killer. Just like a home run.
2007-03-29 21:26:56
173.   D4P
Unlike a home run, however, a ball that turns into a triple play at least had a chance of extending the rally.
2007-03-29 21:27:22
174.   Greg Brock
I wonder if Shea Hillenbrand has any pets.
2007-03-29 21:27:47
175.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
171 - We need a list of Vin's go-to stories.
I'll start with, the long-gone player who thought bandleader Xavier Cugat's first name started with a Z.
2007-03-29 21:29:08
176.   D4P
The triple play short-circuited Gameday
2007-03-29 21:29:22
177.   natepurcell
thank god russell wasnt behind the plate then.
2007-03-29 21:29:26
178.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
2007-03-29 21:29:36
179.   Eric Enders
Allen Iverson has something to say to Gorneault.


2007-03-29 21:29:56
180.   Andrew Shimmin
Lieberthal should have a little talk with Larry Barnes. You can't set a guy up like that in an exhibition game.
2007-03-29 21:30:33
181.   Daniel Zappala
Can the Angels please save some of these for the regular season? Bob, I envy you greatly.
2007-03-29 21:30:42
182.   Greg Brock
I think if somebody leveled my backup catcher in an exhibition game, I might throw at the next guy's face. And a truly dumb cutoff to set it up.

175 I'm just disappointed that Vin didn't tell me about how Vlad used to drink from puddles in the DR. I was sure that I was gonna hear about that.

2007-03-29 21:30:51
183.   Eric Enders
If Gorneault bats again, he's getting one behind the ear, I think.
2007-03-29 21:31:10
184.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Lieberthal has had a marvelous career? Really, Vin?
2007-03-29 21:31:47
185.   dzzrtRatt
Angela just asked Toby to repeat the sexual harassment presentation, in case someone might need "a refresher course" on female anatomy. Toby asks "Who?" and Angela runs away.

The Office Marathon of Reruns has little intros and scenes featuring Toby, where he talks about the importance of HR.

Just thought I'd let you know what you're missing if you're still watching this game.

2007-03-29 21:32:12
186.   Eric Enders
184 He kind of has, actually.
2007-03-29 21:33:15
187.   dzzrtRatt
Bad throw, good tag.
2007-03-29 21:33:47
188.   Andrew Shimmin
Nice lay down by Shea. It would have been funny if he'd bowled Lieberthal down, again, but not funny enough.
2007-03-29 21:34:01
189.   Greg Brock
You can't be going that hard in an exhibition.

That's the kind of behavior that got Apollo Creed killed.

2007-03-29 21:35:03
190.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
186 - A two-time All-Star with 150 HRs and an OPS+ of 102? It's good, sure, but marvelous?
2007-03-29 21:35:45
191.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
189 - If he dies, he dies.
2007-03-29 21:36:56
192.   Eric Enders
190 That probably puts him in the top five percent of all major leagers... and the top one percent of all professional players. It ain't peanuts.
2007-03-29 21:40:45
193.   Andrew Shimmin
Gorneault is a killing machine!
2007-03-29 21:41:19
194.   Bob Timmermann
The present second baseman for the Angels has been IDed as Juan Rivera and Sean Rodriguez. Who is it? I know it isn't Rivera.
2007-03-29 21:43:03
195.   GMac In The 909
192 Wish we had him two years ago.
2007-03-29 21:46:06
196.   Andrew Shimmin
Isn't Howie Kendrick playing second, still?
2007-03-29 21:50:38
197.   natepurcell
Wood hasnt looked good at the plate against tsao and saito.
2007-03-29 21:52:27
198.   Andrew Shimmin
Vin said he slipped, but is it possible Bigbie has some latent Byrnesian tendencies? Because that would be awesome.
2007-03-29 21:55:24
199.   das411
In case you have not yet discovered it Jon, The Dugout is quite different from any dedicated DodgerDugout, and is also known as

Definitely a must-read, especially during spring training.

Other DTers, decent article about Jason Werth today:

And for what it's worth, the 2007 Dodgers' 95-67 record rested on the rejuvenated left shoulder of Randy Wolf, who picked up right where he left off at the end of 2006 in winning his first 11 decisions of '07 en route to an impressive 17-10, 185 inning season. Wolf's importance went beyond the numbers, however, as not only did the lefty hold the rotation together during extended injury absences from Jason Schmidt and Derek Lowe, but his newly-migrated Wolf Pack quickly won over the Dodger faithful after eating several beach balls during Wolf's first home start.

On the offensive side of the ball, surprising power surges from Wilson Betemit and an oddly healthy Nomar Garciaparra (the duo combine for 52 home runs) combined with the constant base-stealing, extra-base-taking, 2002 Angels-esque antics of Juan Pierre and Rafael Furcal, and what pundits declare "an offense almost as deep as most American League teams", and the team built a comfortable 5-game NL West cushion by mid-September. In a preview of further late-season heroics, however, the Dodger's divisional crown was secured on September 23rd in Arizona, when Diamondback starter Randy Johnson was pounded for five home runs: two from Betemit and one each from LF Andre Ethier, new second baseman Marlon Anderson (installed as starter after Jeff Kent's suspicious "motorcycle-related injury" caused him to retire in May), and post-deadline waiver acquisition Rich Aurilia.

However the move that stunned baseball fans everywhere and won over an entire new generation of Dodger fans was the surprise trade on July 31st of disappointing OF prospect Matt Kemp, along with promising young arm Jon Meloan, to Seattle for OF Ichiro Suzuki. Upon learning of the deal, Dodger manager Grady Little famously commented, "Well I'll be, we've already got two leadoff hitters, so we'll just hafta see how many this fella can drive in!" Suzuki did not disappoint, as Little's unorthodox insertion of Suzuki into the 3rd slot in the lineup resulted in a scorching 75-hit, 55-RBI stretch run, along with 13 of Ichiro's career-high 17 home runs.

In the postseason, the layered lineup of Pierre, Furcal, Ichiro, Betemit, Ethier, Anderson, catcher Russ Martin, and Aurilia rumbled through a 4-game victory over the Wild-Card Marlins (the sole win coming on Anibal Sanchez and Dontrelle Willis's unforgettable combined no-hitter). The Dodger juggernaut then outlasted a tired Phillies team in a grueling seven-game NLCS, which set league records for most runs, home runs, and stolen bases in a 7-game playoff series. In the Dodgers' first World Series appearance since 1988, however, the playoff-tested and now strategically-rested Detroit Tiger pitching staff proved too much for the Dodger bats, and a thrilling season ended in disappointment when Game 6 starter Brad Penny was torched for 5 runs in the first inning. One bright spot did emerge from the Series-clinching shellacking, however, as general manager Ned Colletti applied a new twist to an old slogan in the dejected postgame press conference: "Wait 'til next year...when Billingsley [whose six scoreless innings in relief of Penny kept Dodger dreams alive] is in the rotation!"

2007-03-29 21:55:42
200.   Jon Weisman
194 - Vin just said his name, but I didn't catch it all. I think he said he was #95 in the program.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-03-29 21:56:29
201.   FN Bevacqua
anyone know the names of Mia & Nomar's twin daughters just yet?
2007-03-29 21:58:42
202.   Jon Weisman
199 - I'll take your word for it - just added.
2007-03-29 21:59:18
203.   natepurcell
However the move that stunned baseball fans everywhere and won over an entire new generation of Dodger fans was the surprise trade on July 31st of disappointing OF prospect Matt Kemp, along with promising young arm Jon Meloan, to Seattle for OF Ichiro Suzuki.


2007-03-29 22:00:18
204.   regfairfield
My favorite Dugout exchange ever:

Pujol_Junkie: what e'score did you get on this test e'gain?
MannyTheTorpedoes: passed mang 67 persent
Pujol_Junkie: eesh that's not e'so good
MannyTheTorpedoes: manny D'ing manny

2007-03-29 22:00:57
205.   GMac In The 909
201 Shouldn't one have to be Aim?
2007-03-29 22:03:16
206.   D4P
Lyons said he heard it was Eva and Grace
2007-03-29 22:17:54
207.   Eric Stephen
On Andy Barker (sorry, no Screen Jam thread to dump this in), Lew just had one of the funniest lines I've ever heard. I laughed out loud. Hard.

I won't ruin the line for those that haven't seen it.

2007-03-29 22:25:53
208.   FN Bevacqua
Eva Garciaparra
Grace Garciaparra

thanks d4p

2007-03-29 22:29:08
209.   Andrew Shimmin
Proposed new nickname for Juan Pierre: Magic No-ouchie Meat Machine.
2007-03-29 22:29:22
210.   Greg Brock
thanks d4p

Whoa. We don't go around thanking D4P. For anything. Ever.

2007-03-29 22:29:45
211.   Bob Timmermann
Most sources say it was Sean Rodriguez except he was wearing #20 instead of #94.
2007-03-29 22:33:36
212.   bhsportsguy
Parking Report

In years past, I would park in Lots 32 or 34 out on outer edge across from the RF reserved level entrance.

So, this is my plan but I mistakenly entered through the Sunset entrance, where I was immediately directed to park in Lot 7.

Now, I counted 2 guys out on Sunset, 2 guys at the next signal, the usual amount at the gate, now Lot 7 had a number of people who were directing us all to park facing exit and were parking us aisle to aisle.

On the one hand, it didn't take long to park because you had no choice but it may not be exactly where you wanted to park.

I did learn that the walk from Lot 7 is about the same as from old lot 32.

For the record, I did get to the park about 40 minutes before game time so that could have also led to the ease of parking though they could use some help directing all of us to lot 7.

Leaving the park was not that bad though I hope they plan to eventually use some of those extra people as we leave, there was no one in the lot directing us out, we managed okay, in fact I got out in about 3 minutes and was on Sunset before I knew it.

The real test will come Opening Day and then the first Friday night game so overall, no real impact but I think it was probably easier for the preferred parking folks because they had less cars to deal with driving round and round.

I think everyone else here talked about the game. Highlight was probably Chad, though Tsao threw some nasty stuff. Chad was efficient if not overpowering, we'll see how that shakes out as the season goes on.

2007-03-29 22:39:33
213.   Bob Timmermann
I arrived an hour before the game and ended up in Lot 6, which I believe was the former lot 36.

I was allowed to park anywhere I wanted once inside the lot.

I'm uploading some photos now and I'll forward them on to Jon.

2007-03-29 22:47:43
214.   KevPas
Parking was no problem. I think the flow was much better on the way out. But I didn't notice too much of a difference on the way in.


I sometimes do not understand our fans. We are so quick to burn someone at the stake for an error, let alone an error in an exhibition game. And then most of the people around me were too focused on yelling Barry like taunts at Matthews Jr. For once I would love to see a game where we cheer on our team without acting like idiots towards the visitors. Oh well, that will never happen.

Oh, it looked like to me that Pierre's CS was a botched Hit and Run that Barnes could not make contact with. It was a delayed steal..

2007-03-29 22:51:42
215.   underdog
So the Dodgers lost by the combined score of 19-3 today, which isn't good, but it doesn't count, which is good.

214 Was that mostly people in the bleacher seats, or reflected all over the stadium? I've seen incredibly boorish behavior in those bleachers, but a lot less so elsewhere. What's in the beer they're serving out there? (Besides just a lot of it...)

2007-03-29 22:51:45
216.   Andrew Shimmin
What was the attendance?
2007-03-29 22:56:58
217.   Bob Timmermann
29,000 and change.

Lots of empty seats along the first base side in the reserved.

The AM/PM All You Can Eat Pavilion seemed to be popular.

Very few beach balls. ToyCannon and I noticed only one.

2007-03-29 22:59:19
218.   KevPas

It was bleachers, but I have seen a lot of cheering like that all over the park. Plus, we tend to boo our players too often when they make mistakes rather than trying to encourage them. Maybe its just to hard to find a cheer that expresses "it's okay, we still believe in you"

2007-03-29 23:00:51
219.   KevPas
Oh, and there was the ever funny, lets blow up a condom and treat it like a beach ball, at least it was funny until Lieberthal got hammered. Man that looked painful...that throw needed to go to second
2007-03-29 23:27:42
220.   Jon Weisman
218 - That's the Tony La Russa cheer.
2007-03-29 23:33:44
221.   Bob Timmermann
The "pederstrian walkways" that were established were actually just crosswalks that were blocked off on both sides as cars were not allowed to drive through certain areas.

However walking through the lot did seem a little more peaceful.

Opening Day will be the test for the system. The handout you were given when you came in states rather earnestly that general parking will likely be full for sold out games and that carpooling was strongly encouraged.

2007-03-29 23:46:26
222.   bhsportsguy
BTW - I believe hot dogs went up a 25 cents (I know none of you actually buy food or park in the stadium).

Media guides are on sale but Yearbooks will not be available until Opening Day.

2007-03-30 00:02:55
223.   Eric L
I'll echo what everyone else said about the parking. The only thing I noticed is that the stalls seemed to be smaller cause we had to squeeze out of the my brother's car on both sides. Once we were in the specific lot, they directed us to our parking spot.

Leaving didn't seem too bad, but there weren't many people left at the end of the game. I did see some one having trouble backing out of their spot (they couldn't pull forward because a pesky car was in the way) and one of the traffic guys stopped our lane to make sure the person was able to back out. I thought that it was kind of cool.

The AM/PM pavilion was pretty cool. I'm not sure I'd do it again, but I will say that they seemed well prepared. The lines were sparse and they were ready. We went back a handful of times and probably spent a total of 5 minutes in line. The flow was better than the other stands, but they didn't have to worry about money. The crowd also seemed better behaved than what usually shows up in the LF pavilion.

As for other new developments, I'm not sure that I'm a fan of the redesigned New Era caps. I'll give it a couple of weeks just to see. My cap from last season is a disaster and I can't wear it in public anymore.

2007-03-30 01:51:21
224.   Andrew Shimmin
Those who do not heed Dwight's advice are destined to suffer for it. I hope the extension cord will be short, at least.

2007-03-30 04:53:15
225.   Andrew Shimmin
Today is Stop Cyberbullying Day. Which makes it the perfect day, I should think, for everybody to post the reasons they hate D4P, and why they wish he would just go away.

2007-03-30 07:28:13
226.   Benaiah
Someone mentioned this earlier, but "Andy Barker" was very funny last night. It featured the single funniest line I have heard on television ever. Not the funniest moment, but just an incredible line. NBC has a near monopoly on quality network comedy and yet, CBS gets better ratings.
2007-03-30 07:40:02
227.   D4P
Not a single post yet.
2007-03-30 07:47:44
228.   Bob Timmermann
I think the fact that I wrote the word "pederstrian" last night was funny.
2007-03-30 07:53:02
229.   Andrew Shimmin
227- You've intimidated us into silence for too long. C'mon people. I can't be the only hero brave enough to speak truth to power, can I?
2007-03-30 08:04:00
230.   D4P
Too many O'Douls at the Stadium...?

People generally hate me because I'm beautiful. I tell them not to.

2007-03-30 09:28:03
231.   underdog
Btw, you can watch Andy Barker PI on (you can also download from iTunes, but the former is free!) So... check it out.


Anyone hear anything new on the last roster spots - Bigbie, Valdez (I assume they're waiting on that to see how Furcal looks), Loney, Seanez (whom I'm assuming has it locked over Tsao at this point..), all that kinda stuff? I assume moves will be made by tomorrow.

2007-03-30 09:34:15
232.   ToyCannon
We all love D4P for the incredible quantity of his posts. While his posts are generally empty of merit they do seem to serve as a muse for GB and others thus resulting in many an inspired conversation that he indirectly started.
2007-03-30 09:36:41
233.   D4P
many an inspired conversation that he indirectly started

It's a thankless job

2007-03-30 09:44:05
234.   ToyCannon
That Cardboard Gods writer is awesome.
2007-03-30 09:45:02
235.   underdog
This was on Jeff Passan's wish list for the upcoming baseball season, via Yahoo:

"Hope that when Barry Bonds breaks Hank Aaron's home run record he does so in Los Angeles, so the fullest possible torrent of boos and ill-will envelope the ceremony. And that it happens sometime between the third and seventh innings, which is when Dodgers fans arrive and leave.

Hope that Aaron refuses to see it in person."

2007-03-30 09:56:41
236.   GoBears
Well, Jeff Passan's mother should be ashamed of him. That's disgusting.

I hope it happens in SF, and preferably not against the Dodgers. Maybe against Pittsburgh.

The last thing baseball needs is the kind of ugliness he envisions, and I'd just as soon Los Angeles not be a part of such a spectacle.

2007-03-30 10:01:37
237.   Benaiah
Thanks for posting that link Andrew, I ended up reading up on the whole controversy (which I missed completely since I only read baseball and film blogs). The main thing I got out of it, was that blog-life is real life for many of these people and being black-listed as a cyberbully is the equivalent of being accused as of child molestation. In the end, whether or not it is true, a lot of people will just assume you are guilty.
2007-03-30 10:06:22
238.   underdog
Yeah, I thought Passan was kind of mean-spirited there, too. (Plus why assume LA's the place where people will boo Bonds the loudest - there'd be many places that would vie for that "honor.") I was more annoyed, however, with the continual harping on Dodgers' fans as late arriving, early leaving. Sigh. As if they're the only fans that do that these days, and as if all Dodgers fans are like that. Still, if there was only public transport to the stadium, maybe there'd be less people leaving early...? (Not to open up that can of worms again.)
2007-03-30 10:10:38
239.   D4P
I think MLB should rig it such that Bonds breaks the record in Atlanta, and they can track down that 70s guy that grabbed Hank Aaron when he was rounding the bases and have him grab Bonds in the same way. Except maybe they can give the 70s guy a shiv this time.
2007-03-30 10:21:20
240.   GoBears
239. Sigh. OK, to go with the spirit intended, I think that plan would backfire for Bonds haters. Why? Because a shiv can't take down a rhino. He'd crush the guy (especially since's he's gotta be close to 60 by now) and would be acquitted on a self-defense plea.
2007-03-30 10:27:42
241.   D4P
He'd crush the guy

T'would serve him right. Get a haircut, you dirty hippie!

2007-03-30 10:32:45
242.   Andrew Shimmin
237- As someone who can appreciate the comedic potential of a death threat, I don't see the point of doing it anonymously and behind the target's back. Where's the fun in that? It'd be a better story if the anonymous cowards were unmasked and punished, instead of just their hosts. But it's no use wasting perfectly good stakes, just because you haven't got the witch you want most.

240- My theory is that the IRS is waiting for him to hit 754 before they indict. Just to twist the knife, so to speak.

2007-03-30 10:47:24
243.   kinbote
some general impressions of the team after last night's game:

1. i'm really rooting for tsao to make the team over seanez. i think this would send a positive message to the fans that age/experience are not everything. our bullpen would immediately become more intimidating and we'd still have back-ups aplenty when injury strikes.

2. the whole bigbie/loney battle is more complicated than it seems. if bigbie had made the team, why wouldn't they just add him to the roster already? i still think there's a chance loney makes the 25 man roster, but how, i don't know.

3. i actually thought wolf looked good. bills looked ferocious, of course, but wolf's curve and changeup were nasty. i'm optimistic about his year.

4. scoring runs might be an issue this year. we NEED betemit to hit and right away. i don't see laroche as an mlb-ready option right now, so this is a crucial spot in the lineup. as for gonzo, he's not looking at all like a power threat in our lineup. i think i'll be surprised when he hits his first dinger.

5. grady's comments [via tony jackson] about our lineup with furcal out give me a pleasant thank-god-tracy's-gone feeling. i'm sure tracy would have wedged martinez or valdez into the #2 hole just because . . .

2007-03-30 10:48:10
244.   twerp
From Boston Globe, Saito feature===

"Much like Matsuzaka, he has a five-pitch arsenal, but last year his split-fingered pitch and slider were pretty much on hold. This season he's said through his interpreter that he might have to use his full arsenal as hitters begin to catch up to him. He didn't have the best spring, but he was battling a strained calf muscle. Little said he wasn't worried and that Saito would continue to be his closer."

Telling hitters Saito didn't use his slider last year might be a bit of a hard sell.

Makes you wonder how a writer for a prestigious paper can get things so wrong. Mistakes happen (far too many of them, which doesn't help any media's credibility). Deadlines and such can result in errors if there wasn't time to fact-check. But still. Dumb.

The issue here is not just real important in the big scheme. But this adds to the tons and tons of misinformation out there about countless subjects, sports and otherwise, because media of one sort or another can't get information right. Whatever happened to 1) get the story; 2) get it all; 3) get it right; 4) get it first? Too archaic, I guess, especially #3, which often gets lost in efforts at #4--or just to apparent indifference or incompetence.

Rant, blather, rant, etc. But for a very good cause.

2007-03-30 10:54:57
245.   still bevens
243 With regards to Wolf, Tsao and Billingsley, it was impressive to see the CP"K" meter on tilt last night. It must have had 8-9 K's up there.
2007-03-30 10:59:35
246.   kinbote
245 - i know the knock on tsao is command, but he battled back pretty well when he fell behind. broxton/bills/tsao setting up saito is starting to sound like a potentially great bullpen.
2007-03-30 11:10:21
247.   kinbote
assuming beimel gets it together and hendrickson is traded [he will be the mop-up man to end all mop-up men this year], our bullpen could get even better. i liked what i saw of matt white this spring and think he has potential as a lefty specialist. sad that hendrickson's only certain value lies in his ability to pitch multiple innings.

of course, miller & meloan are options later in the year, but i'd like to see each get more experience as starting pitcher and closer respectively.

2007-03-30 11:23:11
248.   still bevens
247 I would like to find a suitably stupid GM to trade Mark Alexander for a B-ish prospect in a position we lack depth in. However I couldn't say if Meloan is ready to close at AAA just yet.
2007-03-30 11:27:36
249.   Marty
I just couldn't pass this one up:

NEW YORK - The Easter season unveiling of an anatomically correct chocolate sculpture of Jesus Christ, dubbed "My Sweet Lord" by its creator, has infuriated Catholics preparing to observe some of their holiest days of the year.

No word on whether it resembles Hendrickson.

2007-03-30 11:31:37
250.   bhsportsguy
249 Will the estate of George Harrison sue the maker of the sculpture?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-03-30 11:41:24
251.   still bevens
Hm. Not a big fan of the Dodgers season preview on Deadspin. I dont want to hear about how the NL West is 'weak'. We're going to have to fight SD, AZ and Colorado (!) to get to the playoffs this year.
2007-03-30 11:44:20
252.   Marty
251 It did introduce me to a new blog though.
2007-03-30 11:48:15
253.   Marty
Somebody posted a link to Eric Neel's Dodgertown piece over at Metafilter. A comment left there I found pretty interesting:

Wow thanks for posting that and the Walter O'Malley website. My dad was the director of Dodgertown Camp for Boys and Dodgertown was my summer home when I was a toddler (my parents would hire Peter O'Malley to babysit me). I had no idea it was closing. Sad.

2007-03-30 11:49:05
254.   Marty
How cool would it be to have Peter O'Malley as your babysitter?
2007-03-30 12:09:05
255.   thinkblue0
2. the whole bigbie/loney battle is more complicated than it seems. if bigbie had made the team, why wouldn't they just add him to the roster already? i still think there's a chance loney makes the 25 man roster, but how, i don't know.

This is why the Gonzo signing didn't make sense for me to begin with. I'm not trying to get a Gonzo debate going again, but why give him 7 mill when there are plenty of guys out there who would put up similiar numbers for a fraction of the cost? Either give the job to Loney and let him work out all his OF kinks, or just go with a guy like Bigbie until Loney is ready to take over the OF job. Oh well....

2007-03-30 12:15:25
256.   D4P
That we could afford to give $7 million to LuGo highlights the dark side of a large payroll
2007-03-30 12:15:35
257.   GoBears
254 In retrospect, pretty cool.

At the time, who knows? Maybe he'd just invite all the other owners' sons over to play croquet and plot the demise of "the good ol' days," while forcing the kids to fetch them mint julips and cigars.

2007-03-30 12:20:28
258.   GoBears
255. I'm not trying to get a Gonzo debate going again

Has there been one? Is there anyone around this place who thinks the Gonzales signing (especially since it happened after The Outmaker Debacle) was a good idea? Sure, there are Collettiesque media drones who are besotten with anyone grizzly, but has anyone even taken a stab at justifying the signing hereabouts?

There was a bit of back and forth on Pierre (once we all agreed that the length of the contract was silly). But I don't remember any debate about Gonzales.

Correct me if I'm wrong (on this).

2007-03-30 12:25:06
259.   D4P
The only debate has been over his nickname. I have contended that "Gonzo" connotes unwarranted affection, and that "LuGo" more appropriately reflects the desired derision.
2007-03-30 12:25:33
260.   Benaiah
253 - How cool is it that the O'Malley's made Peter babysit to earn money? Most rich kids I know have never had a job in their lives. Power to the proles! End hereditary wealth. Sorry, I will take off my little red hat now.
2007-03-30 12:35:42
261.   dagwich
There's a pretty cool interview archived on the local (Durham, NC) NPR station web site with Kim Ng. Somehow this local guy Dick Gordon has some serious access. Midway during the interview she cuts out to work on finishing up the Dessens-Clark trade, then returns to finish the interview. Also some discussion of the ugly interaction with Bill Singer (who is not mentioned by name). Dan Evans gets a few mentions for his mentorship. Not much really said about the Dodgers, per se, really more about the Yankees (she grew up in the Bronx).

2007-03-30 12:37:34
262.   Curtis Lowe
While I believe that Pierre is a better ball player than he is given credit for by some folks... I don't agree with the contract and I sure as burnt hay dont agree with the LuGo contract... The LuGo signing was lame and really pointless unless we only use him off the bench to pinch hit in clutch situations. Maybe he'll wreak havoc on AZ like SG did to us.
2007-03-30 12:51:37
263.   GoBears
260. Noblesse oblige. Not to earn money, but to mentor the less fortunate.
2007-03-30 13:13:05
264.   thinkblue0
Correct me if I'm wrong (on this).

I've seen some people argue back and forth on this...but the reason I said it is that I don't want to be responsible for turning a decent thread into an all out Gonzo war. I know Jon would LOVE that ;)

But yeah, the last thing I need to be is responsible for a Choi-like escalation.

2007-03-30 13:15:56
265.   D4P
The LuGo deal probably hasn't received the criticism it deserves. It would have gotten more attention if he had accepted Ned's two-year offer.
2007-03-30 13:18:44
266.   GoBears
264. My point is that I don't think you could start an argument about Gonzales here, because I think everyone pretty much agrees.

We disagree about a lot around here, but not that.

2007-03-30 13:23:13
267.   GoBears
265. I suppose one could start such an argument on another blog. But here's how the conversation would go here.

D4P: The LuGo signing was insane! Waste of money and roster spot! As if Pierre weren't bad enough, now 2 OF spots go to banjo-hitting, noodle armed charity cases?!

JoeyP: True dat. Kent sucks too.

Everyone else: zzzzzzzzzzzz

End scene.

2007-03-30 13:27:58
268.   natepurcell

my dad isnt complete without at least one smart alec comment from d4p pertaining to gonzalez or pierre. its like clockwork. When you expect it to happen everytime you come on this site, it becomes old.

2007-03-30 13:28:06
269.   natepurcell
dad=day. oops
2007-03-30 13:29:47
270.   Sam DC
Hey all -- wanted to let you know that I'm changing jobs, and even more challenging, changing computers, so I'll be pretty scarce around these parts for the next couple of weeks. (Right, the first two weeks of the actual baseball season. Exactly.)

Not that you would, but if you're looking for me, I will be on email, but again sporadically. sam DOT brodsok AT comcast DOT net.

Here's hoping the Dodgers win the home opener and the next fifteen after that.


(and if Jon starts a new thread in the next five minutes, would someone copy this up to the new one -- thx)

2007-03-30 13:32:27
271.   overkill94
We should have signed Sosa in addition to LuGo. I mean, how many chances do you get to have TWO guys who once hit 57+ homers in the outfield? I know Andre Ethier hasn't.
2007-03-30 13:40:41
272.   D4P
Sosa used corked bats. LuGo's character is squeaky clean...
2007-03-30 13:43:16
273.   Bob Timmermann
Obviously D4P doesn't own the D-Backs.
2007-03-30 13:46:54
274.   Sushirabbit
So... what exactly has Gonzales looked at bat and in the field? Is his shoulder still useless? Just curious because I've not seen him at all.
2007-03-30 13:48:59
275.   D4P
LuGo has gotten on base an awful lot, but doesn't appear to have an awful lot of power left
2007-03-30 13:49:09
276.   Greg Brock
LuGo's character is squeaky clean...


Yup, nothing curious about those home run totals...At all. Squeaky clean, I say.

2007-03-30 13:52:04
277.   D4P
Next thing you know, you guys will be accusing Lugo of wife-beating or Furcal of drunk driving or Kent of being a jerk.

I have perfect faith in Ned's character evaluation skills.

2007-03-30 13:53:59
278.   Bob Timmermann
I will accuse of Gonzalez and Garciaparra of fecundity.
2007-03-30 13:56:28
279.   Icaros

Those numbers are almost Brady Anderson curious.

2007-03-30 14:03:17
280.   Sushirabbit
And where is Gonzalez going to end up in the lineup? Because I can see a doubles hitter behind the rabbits, but if they stick him behind Kent and Nomar we might see a lot of Double Plays.
2007-03-30 14:03:22
281.   Michael D
I remember reading an article in some fitness magazine after the year he hit 57. He said the difference was that he added muscle and that before he would hit a lot of fly balls that would die at the warning track and the extra strength was now getting those balls over the fence. So he admits the turn around in his career was due to adding muscle. Perhaps he had a little help with those strength gains...
2007-03-30 14:12:08
282.   Sushirabbit
Not Jason Grimley curious?
2007-03-30 14:27:31
283.   Terry A
Not Ed Grimley curious, I must say?
2007-03-30 14:29:17
284.   KevPas
I sat behind my kind of fan last night. She was telling us that her 8 year old daughter had been coming to games since she was 2 months old, but that the 3 year old started at 7 months. She promptly added, "she was born during the off-season.
2007-03-30 14:30:34
285.   Icaros
Hey, since when is Kirk Gibson a Diamondbacks coach? That's not right.
2007-03-30 14:56:16
286.   FirstMohican
272, 276 -

HR, head thickness to neck thickness ratio
23, >1
26, >1
31, >1
57, <1
28, <1
26, <1
17, <1

2007-03-30 14:59:11
287.   CajunDodger
I don't like the Gonzo signing and I don't want to stick my head in the sand about steroids, but whose HR line is below:

19, 25, 25, 17, 24, 23, 32, 17, 23, 20, 49, 24, 21, 27, 31, 22, 13, 16

I hate MLB for this. Fans have to try and decide if the guy they rooted for did 'roids or just had a really good outlier year. Can't a consistent player have a really bad outlier the same as they have a really good outlier?

The player is Andre Dawson by the way. He was 32 and hit 53% more home runs that year than in any other year in his career.

2007-03-30 15:24:54
288.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
287 - In Wrigley (Park Factor 104), during one of the best hitters' years of its era.
2007-03-30 15:33:05
289.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Here's a brief season-to-season breakdown of total homers hit in the NL:
1984 - 1278
1986 - 1523
1987 - 1824
1988 - 1279
1989 - 1365
2007-03-30 15:42:00
290.   Greg Brock
Gold Star for Robot Boy took care of it for me. Dawson went from Le Stade Olympique to Wrigley, and did so in a year when home runs absolutely exploded. Ben Johnson wasn't even a blip on the radar screen in 1987, and steroids were right around the corner. Dawson was clean, healthy, and in the right place at the right time.

To be fair, when it comes to steroids, I believe every prominent power hitter (except maybe Fielder, Thomas and Griffey) was on the juice in the mid-late 90's. Heck, we knew kids in high school that were juicing (I'm looking at you, Spur Posse).

2007-03-30 15:42:44
291.   CajunDodger
Do you think that a jump like that can be attributed to this? Was the Hawk on roids?

That is why I hate the steroids era. 2700 hits, 438 homers, 1500 RBI, 314 steals, an MVP, 8 gold gloves, and 8 All-Star games and he isn't in the Hall. If you had asked the question in 1995, I think most would have said he was a first or second ballot guy. Now his numbers are dilluted by Juan Gonzalez, Palmeiro, and others who are implicated.

Maybe Gonzo did it, maybe not...

2007-03-30 15:43:42
292.   CajunDodger
Sorry, that last bit was non-sequitur.
2007-03-30 15:45:21
293.   Daniel Zappala
I fully expect Luis Gonzalez to be the equivalent of Steve Finley in his year with the Angels.
2007-03-30 15:47:10
294.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
291 - Hawk a first-ballor HoFer? He of the career OBP of .323 and OPS+ of 119?
2007-03-30 15:47:28
295.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
ballor = ballot
2007-03-30 15:48:44
296.   Greg Brock
293 As do I. The only question is, when/if that happens, how long do the Dodgers wait to pull him out of the lineup.

I'm guessing a really long time. Like the end of June. And then Gonzales says "I've been playing hurt" and team puts him on the DL with some random strain. And then he comes back, and continues to be very below average. Veteran deference prevails.

2007-03-30 15:57:00
297.   CajunDodger
Not good, but don't his other all-around numbers count for something?

Sorry for turning this into a Dawson debate. I think I killed the chat...

2007-03-30 16:13:20
298.   Curtis Lowe
So uh how does it feel to have your first at bat for a team end up in a triple play after the guy walked two straight?
2007-03-30 16:13:47
299.   das411
270 - Sam! Don't worry, we'll be thinking of you as you camp out in RFK Stadium for it's final opening day...or week or two!

291 - Here's an interesting one for you: 1877 hits, 462 homers, 1407 RBI, 200 steals, an MVP (at age 23 no less), six time all star, career OBP: .353, OPS+ : 131 and most certainly changed the way the game was played...

2007-03-30 16:23:20
300.   GoBears
299. Canseco?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-03-30 16:29:06
301.   gibsonhobbs88
Any word on any freeways closed coming from the Valley to Dodger Stadium due to the fire? Would it be better to take 101 to Sunset tonight instead of the 134? Meeting my wife in Universal City and going from there to the game leaving around 6:20.
2007-03-30 16:59:25
302.   bhsportsguy
301 Is there anyway she can take the Redline Downtown and meet you there.

Universal City is kind of a mess right now and Burbank is probably worse.

2007-03-30 17:12:56
303.   Jim Hitchcock
I'm out of state, and don't have a schedule...when do we first play the Giants?

Thanks in advance.

2007-03-30 17:14:00
304.   Vishal
if anyone wants to see some pictures of the dodgers in green uniforms, i took some pictures on my trip to florida, when i went to the st. patty's day game in vero against the astros...

however, be warned that i'm not nearly as methodical (or skilled) with my picture-taking as say, bob t. or ken. i didn't get a lot in the way of action shots, nor do they photos i took tell the story of the game really (dodgers won). i just took pictures when it would occasionally occur to me that hey, i had a camera in my lap. oh, and there are some other random florida pictures in there too, including from the oriole ballpark in ft. lauderdale, which my friend mike and i snuck into on a non-gameday.

anyway, here:

unfortunately, since this was toward the end of spring training, there weren't minor leaguers really doing drills on the side, nor were there many dodger celebrities on hand or anything that i noticed. just a game, not many side benefits. it was still pretty nice though.

2007-03-30 17:21:12
305.   Bob Timmermann
Dodgers in SF from 4/6-4/8
Giants in LA from 4/24-4/26
2007-03-30 17:30:23
306.   Jim Hitchcock
Thanks, Bob! Have a good weekend.
2007-03-30 17:31:32
307.   Gen3Blue
Different. I definitely remember this time(during the freeway series) as busy and hectic the last two year. In comparison it is much too quiet. There were trades and controversial assignments and releases.Being basically paranoid, of course I am waiting for a prospect trade, but it could be the opposite-we know we have the depth to have a good season no matter what. On the East coast I must adjust from having games at 1:05p to having games at 10 to 11p. and I'm sure that is making an old guy cranky.
2007-03-30 17:31:39
308.   Bob Timmermann
I'm working Saturday and Sunday. :-(
2007-03-30 17:36:32
309.   Gen3Blue
308 Bummer indeed!
2007-03-30 17:40:22
310.   das411
300 - Bingo. It'll be really interesting to see if he ever gets in by some Veterans Committee-type vote, once the genetically enhanced players are all retired and able to vote for him of course...

304 - Is Carlos Lee really that much bigger than Nomar in person??

and your picture 30 has "desktop wallpaper material" written all over it ;)

2007-03-30 17:57:41
311.   Greg Brock
Tonight's Lineup (courtesy ItD):

Pierre, CF
Martin, C
Nomar 1B
Kent, 2B
Gonzo, LF
Saenz, DH
Betemit, 3B
Ethier, RF
Valdez, SS
Schmidt, P

2007-03-30 17:59:17
312.   D4P
Wow. An article on Ned's emphasis on character. It begins thusly:

When Ned Colletti utters the "C" word, it's not just a talking point. The way he sees it, you build the best team with players of solid character.

"We made the moves we've made -- especially during last season -- because I thought the character of the club needed to be improved," said Colletti, about to embark on his second season as the Dodgers' general manager.

Oh: and here's Ned's "Plan B" after not acquiring a big bat:

His Plan B was to load up on pitching and add a pair of World Series winners to the lineup

2007-03-30 18:01:16
313.   Icaros

Reading that article was like having a rusty fork jammed into my spleen.

2007-03-30 18:07:28
314.   Greg Brock
Character, according to Ned Colletti:

DUI: Totally OK
Beating your wife: Hey, you know, sometimes broads mouth off
Being a possible juicer: Everybody was doing it.

Bad Character: JD Drew

I think I'm getting the hang of this "character" thing. Mostly, it relies on being a totally poor judge of character.

2007-03-30 18:13:25
315.   trainwreck
So great to hear Ned does not look ahead.
2007-03-30 18:22:59
316.   GoBears
312 It's really annoying that reporters let him get away with it. If he were actually getting only the highest character guys, at least that'd be something. It'd be a dumb thing to prioritize over talent (let the law deal with off-the-field transgressions), but at least it would be principled.

But clearly, as D4P points out and many others have before, it's cheap talk. So why doesn't anyone with a newspaper column or a TV spot have the guts to call him on it?

I guess we already know the answer to that one.

2007-03-30 18:25:25
317.   D4P
So why doesn't anyone with a newspaper column or a TV spot have the guts to call him on it?

I guess it's up to The Blogs to speak truth to power.

2007-03-30 18:30:42
318.   D4P
To be fair, there's nothing wrong with wanting players who are committed to working hard and improving their performance. But if the work ethic isn't reflected in the stats, what's the point? And, conversely, if the stats are good, why does the work ethic matter?
2007-03-30 18:39:28
319.   Curtis Lowe
318- it's not about what you do it's about how you do it. Stylie points
2007-03-30 18:44:04
320.   Humma Kavula
Let's not forget that other bad character, Brad Penny, whose personality and makeup clearly aren't suited to The Dodger Way. After all, he was traded for Paul Lo Duca.

...or wait, am I confused? Is the fact that Colletti has left him on the roster a sign that he's improved his character? I forget what Plaschke told me.

2007-03-30 18:48:57
321.   Dodgers49
303. I'm out of state, and don't have a schedule...when do we first play the Giants?

Ah, but you're online. So all you have to do is go to the website and click on: Schedule

2007-03-30 18:54:57
322.   dzzrtRatt
317 From reading the recent post in the Griddle about the disappointed baseball reporter's book, it seems possible to imagine a day when MLB will have to deal with the fact that bloggers about teams get more eyeballs than traditional (and dying) news outlets. They will have to credential bloggers. But a lot of bloggers do what they do for next to nothing and have day jobs (like Jon). So perhaps it will come down to bloggers like Jon assigning his press pass to a DT pool of rotating reporters. Also 6-4-2 and the other high-traffic blogs should get to send people too.

Then you'd have some questions and answers!

2007-03-30 18:57:25
323.   Dodgers49
Q&A with manager Grady Little What is the most important improvement from last year's team to this year's?

Little: The overall character of the players, top to bottom.

2007-03-30 19:00:49
324.   CanuckDodger
"Bad character" players -- and I DON'T mean people who have some sins in their past that they have put firmly in the rear-view mirror (like Furcal) -- are not islands unto themselves. They are a cancer that makes everybody who works with them miserable, and that has an effect on the morale and performance of other people on the team. Aside from being bad character players, Gary Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Milton Bradley, and J.D. Drew were all big talents who put up the numbers. Odalis Perez started out with good numbers before turning into rubbish. Yet despite whatever good stats they contributed as Dodgers, each of these players' teammates celebrated when these guys left the Dodgers. And how far did any of them get us to a World Series victory? Building a team around character may not get you a WS ring either, but it sure makes a GM, and a fan, feel a lot better knowing that the players on your team are on the same page and are trying hard to achieve that single, common goal, rather than just caring about their own stats, their own bank accounts, and their own ego gratification.
2007-03-30 19:10:15
325.   Andrew Shimmin
Goodness gracious sakes alive! Somebody get that man a wired mic.
2007-03-30 19:13:40
326.   Bob Timmermann
Now I'm getting credit for stuff I didn't write! That's different for people mentioning things that I've already reported.

The WSJ article is on Cub Town.

2007-03-30 19:18:08
327.   Greg Brock
324 I know that you believe that, but I don't. Many of us work with miserable souls. Jerks and selfish people and fools and antisocial disasters. I worked with people in the military that very possibly could have been serial killers. Others simply couldn't function in the civilian world, and sought refuge in the military.

We all work with bad people. All of us. But to let them affect your own performance is equally weak. If Brad Penny was less of a pitcher, or Shawn Green was less of a hitter because their teammates made them all sad inside, well, that makes me think that they were weak as well. To allow a terrible person's performance affect how you approach your work is not acceptable.

We all have co-workers that we wish would die in freak hangliding accident. Most of us don't let them affect how we do our jobs.

Just my opinion.

2007-03-30 19:18:42
328.   GoBears
324. Please suggest how in the world one might go about proving that one guy's sour attitude can affect another guy's on-field performance.

That's as cliche as cliche gets, and there's not one iota of evidence for it.

Yes, in a regular workplace, or even a sport in which actual teamwork is necessary to reach a goal, I could believe it (though making millions to endure a co-worker's misanthropy should lessen the sting). And I imagine there is the odd insecure mama's boy in MLB who gets sad when everyone doesn't get along and slap each other's butts, and who plays worse when he's sad. But I'm not buying that this is a general phenomenon in baseball. That's what made Gonzales's comment about the difference between veterans who want to win and kids who just want to build stats so comical. The best way to the first goal is to fulfill the second goal. In fact, it's the only way.

Anyone who wants to come to the rim with "character affects others' performance" had better come in strong. Cuz saying it doesn't make it true.

2007-03-30 19:22:54
329.   underdog
Gosh, this guy (AOL Dodger blogger) is mad at Eric Gagne:
2007-03-30 19:27:44
330.   Andrew Shimmin
Anybody who wasn't watching the pre-game show because of the sound problems, they've been resolved. Now Eric Karros is singing the praises of his alma mater.

Anybody who wasn't watching the pre-game show because he has better things to do: I resent you.

2007-03-30 19:27:55
331.   Gen3Blue
While it is touching reading about how far character players will get us, 311(thank you Greg) seems to be fairly close to what our lineup looks like going into the season. Lets see how far it gets us. Actually, I'm curious seeing how we look against a team with great pitching and not much offense. Of course, one game means nothing. Still--
2007-03-30 19:36:39
332.   Andrew Shimmin
329- The only thing interesting about that, to my mind, is that he had to photoshop off the team insignia. He couldn't get permission from MLB to publish a picture of himself?
2007-03-30 19:36:42
333.   Bob Timmermann
I'm shocked! Shocked!
That Vin Scully would say "Chomping at the bit."

A wordsmith like Vin knows it's "champing at the bit."

Just what did they teach him at Fordham.

All my illusions are shattered.

2007-03-30 19:36:59
334.   underdog
330 I read that too quickly the first time and was frightened when I thought it literally said that Eric Karros was singing (like, the National Anthem).

I have better things to do - namely, go home from work, and then work from home (while listening to game). Sigh, did I say better? I meant, sadder.

2007-03-30 19:40:27
335.   underdog
332 I was wondering about that, too - here he is, thanking Dodger fans while at the same time seemingly erasing any evidence he pitched for them. What gives?
2007-03-30 19:40:27
336.   Gen3Blue
Ha-- Colorado's Triple A team seems to have beaten them, as the D's probably will!
2007-03-30 19:53:01
337.   Andrew Shimmin
Russ's swinging like he promised to hit a homerun for a dying kid. Or maybe Alyssa Milano.
2007-03-30 19:57:10
338.   CanuckDodger
328 -- Proving it? You mean with numbers, like a sabermetrician? The psychological phenomenon of people's work deteriorating when they have to work with people they dislike is well known and well established, and if you think the endeavor of professional baseball is exempt from that, the burden of proof is on you. The closest thing in baseball I have seen that at least demonstrates what I am talking about is the pattern of consistently poor run support you sometimes see unpopular pitchers getting from teammates. Dave Stieb of the Toronto Blue Jays was the poster boy for this. Despised by his teammates, they simply didn't produce for the guy, and Stieb wasn't shy about complaining about his teammates for screwing with him in this way. I always wondered why Ismael Valdes got poor run support as a Dodger, and it was much later that I learned about how unpopular he was in the clubhouse. Kevin Brown and Odlais Perez also got a lot of poor run support, and although they played on some offensively anemic Dodger teams, at least at the time I noticed it, they would get less support than other Dodger starters. And it happened to Roger Clemens last year in Houston, when his teammates no doubt resented his special status: starting the season late not because he was hurt but because he felt like it, not having to go on road trips when he wasn't scheduled to pitch, etc. I don't think I would go along with Stieb and accuse teammates of deliberate sabotage, as much as I think it is subconscious, which of course is not something you can prove with the numbers sabermetricans demand to see.
2007-03-30 20:03:39
339.   Andrew Shimmin
Boom goes the Betemit!
2007-03-30 20:04:40
340.   sanchez101
you know, if Betemit wants to go all David Ortiz on the NL, Im willing to let him, you know ... (damn, its just spring training, one can dream ...
2007-03-30 20:05:56
341.   Gen3Blue
Oh boy--It looks like Seinz done em in!
2007-03-30 20:06:41
342.   Brendan
betemit has easy power.
2007-03-30 20:08:20
343.   Bob Timmermann
I guess I picked the wrong time to take a catnap.

I literally slept through the entire bottom half of the first.

Hey, it was a long day!

2007-03-30 20:13:38
344.   Gen3Blue
343 Think of us E coasters.
2007-03-30 20:18:09
345.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
*We all work with bad people. All of us. But to let them affect your own performance is equally weak. If Brad Penny was less of a pitcher, or Shawn Green was less of a hitter because their teammates made them all sad inside, well, that makes me think that they were weak as well. To allow a terrible person's performance affect how you approach your work is not acceptable.

We all have co-workers that we wish would die in freak hangliding accident. Most of us don't let them affect how we do our jobs.*

This strikes me as how the would ought to be, as opposed to a discussion of how it actually is. If anything, the dysfunctional relationship between DePo and Tracy shows that interpersonal relationships do indeed matter. I think it's a mistake to overdo the character bit, but going to the other extreme and simply seeing all baseball players as completely rational actors trying to put up the best numbers possible to make the largest possible paycheck strikes me as a profoundly reductive of human behavior.


2007-03-30 20:20:31
346.   Vishal
[333] looks to me like champ and chomp are synonyms. why is one correct and the other not?
2007-03-30 20:23:32
347.   Bob Timmermann
I think it would have been cool if Nomar and Mia had named their twins: Kristine and Lilly.
2007-03-30 20:26:36
348.   Bob Timmermann
Horses champ at bits. That's just what horses do.
2007-03-30 20:27:16
349.   Andrew Shimmin
It's an idiom. Why is "kick the bucket" right and "kick the pail" wrong?
2007-03-30 20:30:15
350.   Jose Habib
324 I thought Milton Bradley was well-liked by his teammates, except for Jeff Kent.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-03-30 20:32:39
351.   Greg Brock
345 I don't see how the DePodesta/Tracy dynamic affected their performance as independent actors. It didn't make Tracy a less effective manager, and it didn't make DePodesta a less effective GM. They disagreed on personnel, and that hurt the team, but it didn't diminish each other's performance.

That team stunk because it stunk. There wasn't a whole lot of talent on that squad, and no amount of cohesiveness, character, friendship, loyalty, or veteran leadership was going to make Mike Rose into Pete Rose.

Maybe I'm using anecdotal evidence to support my assertion, but my experience is that outstanding workers are outstanding, no matter what dweebs they work with.

2007-03-30 20:33:26
352.   immouch
338: uh... you're kidding, right? you're suggesting the blue jays' loathing of dave steib was so... oh, nevermind. it's too inane to discuss...
on another front, i noticed last night that ramon martinez should re-grow his hair. i'm not one who usually would comment on this, but his head is too big for his baldness.
2007-03-30 20:35:48
353.   natepurcell
schmidts velocity is concerning.
2007-03-30 20:35:57
354.   Greg Brock
Grr...Hate being the first post of a new segment.

Now 351 is going to be around until 410 or so. Darn you, Bob, Andrew, and Jose Habib.

Do not want.

2007-03-30 20:36:44
355.   sanchez101
thats right, russell, thats right
2007-03-30 20:37:15
356.   Andrew Shimmin
I've had co-workers I wanted to strangle, and co-workers I wanted to take out behind the middle school football field and impregnate. But I've been indifferent to the vast majority of them. Maybe baseball players spend a lot more time forming personal vendettas; it doesn't seem possible, but I guess it could be.

I've not read deeply into it, but aren't MLB locker rooms supposed to be like high school? All the black guys hang together, as do the white guys, and the Latin American guys? There are probably some players that nearly everybody likes, and some that nearly everybody dislikes, but those have to be rare. I've never understood why we're so sure players hate J.D. Drew. Wouldn't it make more sense to assume that they just don't care about him?

2007-03-30 20:38:00
357.   immouch
pop quiz: which dodger catcher last threw as well as russ martin?
2007-03-30 20:38:38
358.   Bob Timmermann
Henry Blanco threw better.
2007-03-30 20:38:39
359.   sanchez101
353. hey nate, who's more important to the future of their team, Kemp+Billingsely or Andrew Bynum? I think its a good argument.
2007-03-30 20:38:56
360.   Greg Brock
345 Wayne, I do concede that "character" plays some role in success. I just think its a very small percentage.

Very small.

2007-03-30 20:39:37
361.   Vishal
if as many or more people used "pail" than "bucket", and both meant the same thing, i'd say that it wasn't wrong. a quick google search nets roughly 3 times as many hits for chomp... horses may gallup, but they can be said to run as well.
2007-03-30 20:40:23
362.   Jon Weisman
338 - We've been through this debate before, and I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree. This is an area of well-trod ground.

For the record, my position remains that if good character people let bad character people affect their performance, then a) the good character people have to shoulder some of that responsibility and/or b) character is the wrong issue, and what we really need are, say, good backbone people, regardless of character.

Valdes(z) was not popular with some Dodger teammates, this is true, but that did not stop him from pitching well during the period we're discussing. So should we conclude that he was the problem, or that someone of reputed character value like Eric Karros was the problem?

In the workplace, good people don't go down to the level of bad people. Good people rise above. In the examples you describe, if batters were purposely not producing for the unpopular pitchers, then those batters are in fact the people with questionable character. If we look at it that way, then I'm willing to consider the character argument.

Barring that, I think people are way too careless in labeling the baddies.

2007-03-30 20:41:15
363.   Vishal
[310] carlos lee is a very large man :)
2007-03-30 20:41:41
364.   Marty
Sorry, it's "champ at the bit" not chomp. It's as wrong as "tough road to hoe" to me.
2007-03-30 20:42:30
365.   natepurcell
bynum. outside of bynum, lakers have no one that projects as top tier for their position. the dodgers have the depth.
2007-03-30 20:45:41
366.   Bob Timmermann
My horses champ at bits and will continue to do so in the future.

champ, v.

2. trans. To bite upon (anything hard); said especially of a horse which impatiently bites the bit in its mouth.

chomp, v.

Formerly only dial. and U.S.

Now a widespread variant of CHAMP v. (esp. in senses 1-3).

"Champ" has better bloodlines. And I think it's Beyer speed numbers are higher too!

2007-03-30 20:45:50
367.   Vishal
[364] but roads are generally not amenable to hoeing, so that's at least beyond argument. i contend that horses are just as capable of chomping as champing, as they are direct synonyms.
2007-03-30 20:46:01
368.   sanchez101
ya, i feel the same way, even if I think Kemp can be a huge stud in the near-future.
BTW, where is Kershaw slated to start this season, A- or A+? (if you know)
2007-03-30 20:46:51
369.   StolenMonkey86
hey, spring training runs.

The Dodgers should see what happens when they go 10 for 16 in 3 innings in a real game. :)

2007-03-30 20:48:16
370.   Andrew Shimmin
Vishal's idiomatic relativism is impairing the quality of my comment posting!
2007-03-30 20:48:48
371.   Bob Timmermann
Well, in that case, Vishal is a shoe-in to win any logical argument.
2007-03-30 20:49:25
372.   Greg Brock
Bob is to language as Costas is to the Wildcard.

English is a living language, constantly evolving...

{Flees in terror...fear of Timmermann}

2007-03-30 20:50:20
373.   Bob Timmermann
I may make fun of Pierre's small head, but the fact that he wears a cap under his helmet reminds me of the 1970s when it was quite common for players to do that and then take off the helmet while running the bases.
2007-03-30 20:50:37
374.   natepurcell
Last I heard, it was low A and ending the season in high A probably. But who knows, it could change depending on how he looks/feels in minor league camp.
2007-03-30 20:50:50
375.   Vishal
[371] not fair! that's just a homophone.
2007-03-30 20:51:03
376.   Bob Timmermann
I accuse Greg Brock of Packerism!
2007-03-30 20:51:29
377.   natepurcell
pierres having a good night. 3-3...someone has to be the ying to D4P's yang.
2007-03-30 20:51:44
378.   Bob Timmermann
that's just a homophone

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

2007-03-30 20:51:57
379.   sanchez101
374. thanks
2007-03-30 20:52:26
380.   Greg Brock

Wow, that really got out of hand quickly. Bob hit me with a trident!

2007-03-30 20:53:02
381.   Daniel Zappala
Why Flash is bad for the web: (a) you can't middle click and open a link in a tab, (b) when you are trying to scroll up, it will scroll you down if new data appears, (c) it's slow. I'm sure there are a zillion other reasons.

I wish MLB would contract with Google to write a simple, clean, and usable live boxscore interface.

2007-03-30 20:55:13
382.   sanchez101
I'll take the bait. Juan Pierre will have the best year of the past three in Dodger Blue ... you just watch ... .310/.360/.400 w/ 50 sb
2007-03-30 20:55:17
383.   Andrew Shimmin
ying to D4P's yang

So, it's just on, then? You've decided to throw in with Vishal in this war against idioms?

2007-03-30 20:56:15
384.   El Lay Dave
outstanding workers are outstanding, no matter what dweebs they work with.

I work in a very large company and I am at least very good, if not outstanding, at what I do; however, I lead a team that creates a product that goes into another product, that goes into yet another product before it is sold off to the customer who uses it in his system. No matter how outstanding I am at designing my kind of product, that will never show if the dweebs (either incompentant, or arrogant and dismissive) in the product layer above me place unreasonable (in my mind) constraints on what my product should or shouldn't be doing.

That said, I don't imagine baseball players being like this, generally. Each player is on his own when he bats, pitches, fields, throws. (On the other hand, players, collectively don't strike me as the most mature bunch.)

But add layers and managers can undermine players (playing the wrong ones, putting low-OBP batters in front of RBI guys, playing graceful 1B in the OF...), GMs can undermine managers (e.g., provide non-optimal sets of players, or bad players), owners can undermine GMs with tight pursestrings, demanding housecleanings and so on.

OK, sorry, I think I'm mentally meandering now....

2007-03-30 20:56:35
385.   Daniel Zappala
I for one think we will be happier with Pierre than Gonzalez.
2007-03-30 20:57:51
386.   Greg Brock
This entire argument is just one giant Catch-23
2007-03-30 21:00:07
387.   Daniel Zappala
I am at least very good, if not outstanding,at what I do

We are all high-achievers at DT. Those that aren't get run off, or, like Andrew, we smile benignly and exchange jokes behind their back.

2007-03-30 21:00:18
388.   Andrew Shimmin
386- Don't look a gift horse in the nose. It's getting us out of talking about how good JP's been today.
2007-03-30 21:00:37
389.   sanchez101
384. uh, ya

385. considering that Kemp will replace one of them, does it really matter which one?

BEST VIN QUOTE EVER: wow! everything seems 40 years ago!

2007-03-30 21:00:55
390.   Vishal
[383] well, i could use the help; i'm certainly no idiom savant.
2007-03-30 21:01:36
391.   Jon Weisman
Gameday is so slow to respond to my commands on my five-year-old iMac with Firefox, I may not be able to use it at home anymore.
2007-03-30 21:02:09
392.   Andrew Shimmin
387- Excuse my Spanish, but you are a meanie.
2007-03-30 21:03:53
393.   oldfan60
Totally agree with Canuck (324, 338). I probably worked with more people than any of you have or will. We had thousands at my workplace and over 30 years, I worked with a lot of them. A small number of them were miserable excuses for human beings and you could clearly see how they affected co workers--including me.
How do you think Martin felt last year when he is catching every day while Drew, making 10 times as much $$, is sitting with a hangnail.
By the way, my idioms dictionary has champ and chomp (at the bit) as valid.
2007-03-30 21:05:10
394.   natepurcell
schmidts velocity isnt even sitting high 80s... its like 85....
2007-03-30 21:06:39
395.   Eric Enders
What evil is this? I am having a good time watching Vin Scully on TV, I take a bathroom break and when I come back Rick Monday's voice is blaring away. Ugh.
2007-03-30 21:07:15
396.   Andrew Shimmin
393- Was your idiom dictionary written by Neville Chamberlain?
2007-03-30 21:07:16
397.   robohobo
394. Against Vlad he cranked it up to 90,91.
2007-03-30 21:07:35
398.   Daniel Zappala
By the way, my idioms dictionary has champ and chomp (at the bit) as valid.

See Bob, this is what you get when you come down on Vinny.

2007-03-30 21:07:42
399.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 351

I don't see how the DePodesta/Tracy dynamic affected their performance as independent actors.

But they aren't independent actors.

And I'm not referring to so much as character as the relationships between different individuals, and how they can affect larger organizational outcomes.


2007-03-30 21:08:49
400.   Daniel Zappala
This is a night when JP can hit and Smush Parker can make a three. Magic is in the air.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-03-30 21:09:12
401.   natepurcell
i like rick monday. hes like the eric byrnes of the broadcasting booth.

you just have to admire how much of a trainwreck he is.

2007-03-30 21:09:59
402.   Daniel Zappala
On the other hand, Bob messed up on language and Monday is announcing, so the karma balances out.
2007-03-30 21:10:09
403.   Eric Enders
Charlie Steiner's mom was named Gertrude Steiner? I guess her passing gives an unfortunate new meaning to the saying that there's no there there.
2007-03-30 21:10:41
404.   D4P
Why Flash is bad for the web: (a) you can't middle click and open a link in a tab, (b) when you are trying to scroll up, it will scroll you down if new data appears, (c) it's slow. I'm sure there are a zillion other reasons.

Amen. Trying to scroll down to see what happened during previous innings is driving me crazy. Clicking the up and down arrow is painfully slow, clicking in the bar goes too far, and dragging the scroll bar thingie jumps all around.

2007-03-30 21:10:49
405.   robohobo
I wonder if the radar on Gameday is very accurate. Schmidt is consistently at 90 this inning.
2007-03-30 21:11:31
406.   Greg Brock
399 I can concede that point. But Brad Penny, standing on the mound, or Shawn Green, standing at the plate...How do their relationships with teammates affect their ability in what is, by most measures, a series of individual skill sets within a team game?

If pitchers or batters are less focused or less productive because they don't like their teammates...Wow. That's an indictment of their character, not the other guy's.

2007-03-30 21:11:37
407.   underdog
Monday wasn't even aware that Loney was playing first now. He thought that was Nomar who couldn't field Betemit's throw in the dirt on that last play. They do look SO much alike and all.

He did reassure us that Schmidt's velocity was up to the upper 80s - "at least on one pitch."

2007-03-30 21:11:43
408.   Andrew Shimmin
Now, instead of engaging further in the Great Character Morass, we can just needle Canuck about Loney's error. Much better.
2007-03-30 21:13:07
409.   Michael D
Speaking of character and LuGo, it really is the arbitrary way in which the tag is handed out. I remember LuGo being a little * after the bean ball incident. What really bothered me is that little quote about the kids not wanting to win. It's incredibly transparent that he said that because the whole world knows that he could end up losing his job to one of the kids, so he took a dig at them trying to get more job security. That really irritated me.
2007-03-30 21:13:40
410.   natepurcell
can someone explain gameday to me. they made it confusing this year.
2007-03-30 21:14:49
411.   robohobo
Monday just said the wild pitch was 88mph; Gameday 91.
2007-03-30 21:15:11
412.   natepurcell
what is this release/result deal?
2007-03-30 21:15:20
413.   LAT
Does anyone know whether Nomar and Mia's twins are fraternal or identical?
2007-03-30 21:17:13
414.   das411
While we're on the topic (kinda) has anybody been having problems with the frontpage lately? I've had it set as my home page for years now and it's never done what I am getting now, I'll open and the rest of the page will load fine but instead of the 6 rotating stories I just get grey...with a weird white square off to the side. Has anybody else been having trouble with this? If so any suggestions on how to fix?
2007-03-30 21:18:12
415.   underdog
Gameday also said that Molina stole 2nd with Izturis up, before the latter flied out to end the inning. Monday didn't say anything. Sadly, I trust the computer over Rick Monday, who was probably looking at pictures from the 1981 World Series while the steal happened.
2007-03-30 21:18:24
416.   Bob Timmermann
The Gameday app is swallowing up my computer's RAM at a pace not unlike Odalis Perez at a buffet where the amount of food you get is proportional to the amount of whining you do.
2007-03-30 21:19:15
417.   underdog
Uh oh, Colletti in the Booth Alert.
2007-03-30 21:19:28
418.   Bob Timmermann
You need to go to your browser and delete all cookies.
2007-03-30 21:20:09
419.   Eric Enders
Great. Now we get to listen to the great Monday AND Prince Valium from "Spaceballs."
2007-03-30 21:20:29
420.   underdog
COlletti: Furcal is a longshot for the Milwaukee series, much more likely for the Giants series, and at the worst for the home opener.
2007-03-30 21:21:34
421.   underdog
419 Is Steiner Barf the Mawg then?
2007-03-30 21:21:46
422.   D4P
TMI, Gameday. TMI.
2007-03-30 21:22:27
423.   LAT
I think who you work with can affect your performance. If you are happy nad enjoy your surroundings and coworkers you work harder, feel more committed to those around you and at a minimum want to pull your weight. If you don't like your coworkers, getting up and going to the greatest job in the world still sucks. Of course this appliies to the real world more than MLB.
2007-03-30 21:22:57
424.   Andrew Shimmin
Isn't Kendrick's defense supposed to be bad at 2B? He hasn't looked bad.
2007-03-30 21:23:31
425.   underdog
More on Furcal: His recovery has plateaued a little bit is the only reason he's hesitating to commit - he got better in a hurry but not closing the gap as fast now.

Kuo is pain-free now but they're still shutting him down for awhile.

And Rick Monday has put me to sleep... Night all!

2007-03-30 21:23:56
426.   robohobo
421. Tommy Lasorda = Pizza the Hut
2007-03-30 21:25:30
427.   sanchez101
I suddenly find the Dodgers lineup much more interesting
2007-03-30 21:25:38
428.   capdodger
Maybe I've been under a rock all off-season, but has there been any ink indicating that players had a problem with Drew? He seemed more aloof than anything. Would someone care to enlighten me with a link?
2007-03-30 21:27:12
429.   Daniel Zappala
Kendrick has been very good at 2B. I don't know why he has been labeled bad defensively by some. He's going to be an all star.
2007-03-30 21:28:37
430.   underdog
Sorry, but I had to share this with y'all. Story in Pittsburgh paper tonight about the Pirates roster moves.

"Tracy long has counted (Jose) Hernandez among his favorites, including their time with the Los Angeles Dodgers, and he became visibly emotional when describing how it felt to break the news.

'It was very, very difficult,' Tracy said."

2007-03-30 21:28:49
431.   Eric Enders
This could get interesting if Hendrickson gets lit up while his benefactor is live in the booth.
2007-03-30 21:28:49
432.   FN Bevacqua
anyone else enjoying this game on KCAL-9 in glorious high-definition?

Juss wonderin'

2007-03-30 21:28:57
433.   Greg Brock
428 I don't know if this came directly from Drew, or more about a general conversation about players and character.

And then Canuck said that the Blue Jays didn't score runs for Dave Steib because they didn't like him, and all hell broke loose.

2007-03-30 21:30:38
434.   Eric Enders
432 Well, I'm enjoying the KCAL broadcast in glorious pixelization online. Does that count?

Thanks for everything, Chase Carey's mustache.

2007-03-30 21:31:36
435.   LAT
428. In Tom Verducci's SI article about being an ML umpire for a day the only player to question him was Drew. The article makes Drew seem almost firey.
2007-03-30 21:32:29
436.   Andrew Shimmin
432- I am! I'm house sitting this weekend and drinking deeply of the benefits. Although I don't think this is a 1080P t.v. It's more different than I would have guessed from the nineteen inch CRT I'm used to, but I'm trying not to fall in love with it.
2007-03-30 21:33:16
437.   sanchez101
i dont think any players had a problem with Drew. The 'problem' with Drew comes down to two issues (a) his durability; how many games will he play this year? he could play 145 or 95 and (b) his desire: Drew is a Professional Baseball Player, not a ballplayer, what I mean by that is that he's in this as a profession rather than a passion. He cares about his production and his paycheck more than how his team is doing. That's not to say he doesn't care about winning, it's just that he cares more about his financial (and his family's) future. That doesn't make him a bad person, in the slightest, for all I know he's giving most of that cash to charity. But he's not the type of guy that wins championships. That's the crux of the JD Drew issue.
2007-03-30 21:34:04
438.   D4P
but I'm trying not to fall in love with it

Please refrain from taking it out behind the middle school football field.

2007-03-30 21:36:11
439.   Eric Enders
Monday's cadence is really awful sometimes.

"9 to 2 Dodgers, Wilson.


Is the batter, Andy LaRoche.

Waiting on deck."

2007-03-30 21:37:39
440.   underdog
Is anyone still worried about whether the Dodgers will lose Wilson Valdez? Just checking.
2007-03-30 21:38:44
441.   Eric Enders
439 "Grounder to short, gobbled up by...

[dead silence]

[more silence]

uh, the new shortstop, and..."

2007-03-30 21:38:49
442.   Andrew Shimmin
438-, please!

Bob Timmermann

2007-03-30 21:39:34
443.   natepurcell
boom goes the canuck!
2007-03-30 21:39:35
444.   Eric Enders
Attaboy Russ.
2007-03-30 21:39:39
445.   FN Bevacqua

Andrew, I had the game (on my sales floor) on a Philips 50" plasma with 720 resolution, and it looked terrific. I watch a Samsung LCD at home with 1080 resolution.

KCAL is sending a very good HD signal on this game tonight.

2007-03-30 21:39:49
446.   Andrew Shimmin
He's been swinging from the heels all night. Nice that he connected.
2007-03-30 21:40:09
447.   underdog

439 So Monday is sort of like the Thermians from the Klaatu Nebula, in Galaxy Quest? "We-ee need. Your help."

2007-03-30 21:40:22
448.   capdodger

Wait.... I've been spending too much time over on

2007-03-30 21:40:45
449.   Michael D
Loney just keeps saying F U to the retarded front office.
2007-03-30 21:41:02
450.   JoeyP
Aside from being bad character players, Gary Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Milton Bradley, and J.D. Drew were all big talents who put up the numbers.

Those players also have made the playoffs a number of times in their careers.

If those players are such cancers to the team, dont you think the teams they were playing on would have sucked?

And it happened to Roger Clemens last year in Houston, when his teammates no doubt resented his special status

LOL..This is so preposterous its almost beyond belief that anyone could actually think this. You actually think that the 8 other guys in the lineup, are going to tank at bats (and in doing so their own careers), just of spite to Roger Clemens?

All those guys are professionals. IF that ever happened, that says more about them than Roger Clemens. If I got players on my team that dog it just bc they dont like another player on the team..Guess what. The players that are dogging it are gonna be gone.

THe guys that put up #'s. Just leave them be. Thats who you need.

Character is ridiculous. How many times did we here that Billy Jenks, Carl Everett, AJ Pierzynski were terrible character players..Yet they won a title.

If AJ Pierzynski, whom by all accounts everyone hates and plays the position of CATCHER, cant sabotage a team...then what evidence is there that points otherwise.

This is just insanity.
This is borderline "the earth is flat", and "2+2=5" type of nonsense.

I'm shocked Canuck actually believes it, but maybe he's never been around pro athletes whom would never think to tank their own careers out of spite for someone else. You do that stuff anywhere, and you're cut.

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-03-30 21:41:19
451.   underdog
Boy, that Loney kid can hit. And run too!

Martin can hit - and he's got good character to boot! The whole package.

2007-03-30 21:41:20
452.   Andrew Shimmin
445- If you need to go out of town next week, I'd be happy to house sit your sales floor, for a very modest fee.
2007-03-30 21:42:29
453.   LAT
BTW, I just want to say its nice to have the names on the unis again
2007-03-30 21:42:46
454.   sanchez101
man, Loney is working him self out there ... he doesn't look like he wants to go to Las Vegas. I don't care how BA-dependent he is, Im going to enjoy watching him hit - he has a beautiful swing.
2007-03-30 21:43:03
455.   Bob Timmermann
Gameday swallowed up my computer and finally killed it.

I suppose during the regular season, it will be CBS Sportsline or Yahoo for me.

2007-03-30 21:43:14
456.   FirstMohican
He cares about his production and his paycheck more than how his team is doing.

It's not even that, for me its really that he's a bad tipper, and he - and I know this for a fact - determines which percentage of his federal taxes goes towards social services for children and deducts that from what he pays.

2007-03-30 21:45:45
457.   capdodger
437 There is nothing that a "Professional Baseball Player" can do that is good for him that is bad for his team. Any personal production helps him and helps his team. Sitting out doesn't help him or his team excepting that it allows him to produce later. Some would argue that this is selfish, but others, including Conte would disagree. This is why the J.D. Drew "issue" always confused me.
2007-03-30 21:46:26
458.   Eric Enders
Somebody working for the team has a sense of humor, at least. The Dodger Stadium P.A. system was playing "Devil in Disguise" while Mark Hendrickson warmed up.
2007-03-30 21:46:30
459.   D4P
Firefox (i.e. Gameday) is using roughly 60% of my CPU and 188 megs of RAM.
2007-03-30 21:46:51
460.   Eric Enders
Mondayism: "And Kelly Stinnett takes over on the mound..."
2007-03-30 21:47:14
461.   Andrew Shimmin
449- It's not a major problem, but you might want to have a look at the list of site rules at the bottom of the side bar. Especially with Zappala here tonight, we have to tread softly on rule one. He's sensitive.
2007-03-30 21:47:28
462.   LAT
456. You have to elaborate. Did you wait on him once and challange his tip such that he gave you that explination. I hate bad tippers.
2007-03-30 21:48:30
463.   Eric Enders
That is the second time Monday has called Reggie Willits "Reggie Williams." I think Rick spent too much time working on his entry in Jon's obscure but memorable Dodger contest.
2007-03-30 21:48:50
464.   underdog
I think the character debate gets a bit confused. It really doesn't seem to matter that much as far as regular season results - if someone's a great hitter and player, his character is less important. If he's a great "character," but not a great player and/or hitter, his character is less important. HOWEVER, this is the only thing I'll say in defense of the whole character thing - if you have guys that teammates hate, it can eventually cause friction in the clubhouse, leading to tension. I feel like there have been trades because of this (again, just because a GM made a move doesn't mean it's "real", but part of a GM's job is to keep his players happy. This again may not really affect a team's W's and L's but it can affect morale, which can cause problems down the road.) I've worked places where people were such a----les that it became a distraction to people who had to work with them. You can say those people were weak for not being able to deal and work through it, but humans have emotions and part of productivity is not to be distracted by them. I guess I don't see this as black or white as some of you.

That said, I really do think it can be overrated (and obviously hard to quantify) and that there's a double standard when it comes to characterizing certain players as "good character" guys over others.

That's all I'll say about that lest I fall down into an abyss with this.

2007-03-30 21:49:02
465.   capdodger
462 I'm more curious about the second part of that. The IRS doesn't like selective payemets...
2007-03-30 21:50:15
466.   Daniel Zappala
461 D--n right I am.
2007-03-30 21:52:35
467.   underdog
464 Hope I didn't break that rule above - I was talking about an alcoholic beverage of course, and the dashes are merely the Rick Monday way of saying it.
2007-03-30 21:53:42
468.   underdog
I say, this Hendrickson fellow, he rather stinks, wot.
2007-03-30 21:53:47
469.   Eric Enders
The Angels have stolen 54 bases in SPRING TRAINING?!?

Did Mike Scioscia learn nothing from Pedro Guerrero, March 1986?

2007-03-30 21:54:05
470.   El Lay Dave
466 Well put!
2007-03-30 21:54:44
471.   Bob Timmermann
Gameday refused to load on Safari. I will go complain to my friend who works at who will likely be able to do anything about it.
2007-03-30 21:56:14
472.   StolenMonkey86
466 - I don't think you need to use dashes for the word darn, but I guess I'll know if my comment gets deleted. :)
2007-03-30 21:56:48
473.   El Lay Dave
In real life, it is very hard to work with difficult people.

If were standing at the plate with a major-league pitcher hurling hard, white projectiles at 90 M.P.H. in my general direction, I doubt I'd be thinking about what a miserable product of unwed parents my teammate is.

2007-03-30 21:57:34
474.   Eric Enders
At least we know in advance that Brady Clark's second at-bat as a Dodger will have a better result than the first.
2007-03-30 21:57:39
475.   El Lay Dave
Pedro Guerrero, March 1986
Ugh. What a horrible, horrible memory that is.
2007-03-30 21:58:32
476.   Bob Timmermann
There have been two Reggie Williams to play in the majors.

One of them had a career path that went Angels- Dodgers-Angels.

The other one went Dodgers-Indians.

2007-03-30 21:58:40
477.   Daniel Zappala
472 What about f-----sticks?
2007-03-30 21:58:55
478.   Jon Weisman
A bad boss is much worse than a bad co-worker.

I work next to a very prickly fellow, and I just go about my business. If he were my boss, now that would be very difficult.

2007-03-30 21:59:20
479.   Greg Brock
Professor Zappala used dashies to represent a naughty word. Next thing you know, D4P will be arguing for the Equal Rights Amendment and Juan Pierre will hit a home run.

I am in total shock. :-O

2007-03-30 22:00:36
480.   sanchez101
Matt Kemp homeruns make me happy
2007-03-30 22:00:43
481.   natepurcell
boom goes the future superstar.
2007-03-30 22:00:46
482.   Eric Enders
476 I met the latter one a few years ago when he was working in the Memphis Redbirds front office. He was rather surprised that anyone remembered his obscure Dodger career.
2007-03-30 22:00:49
483.   StolenMonkey86
477 - hrm . . .


2007-03-30 22:00:56
484.   Greg Brock
I work next to a very prickly fellow

Talk about punchlines that can't be written on DT...

2007-03-30 22:01:39
485.   JoeyP
Yao's got 33 of the Rockets 88 points tonite. Yet, the Lakers rationalization for keeping Kwame Brown is that he is allegedly a good defensive player...
2007-03-30 22:01:52
486.   capdodger
473 I know I'd be thinking about how to slip a few rusty tacks onto that teammates clubhouse seat.
2007-03-30 22:01:59
487.   Bob Timmermann
I remember when the 1980s Reggie Williams was on the Dodgers, he was featured in the LA Times as the only player on the team with a college degree.
2007-03-30 22:02:02
488.   StolenMonkey86
480, 481 - Gameday hasn't gotten past Marlon Anderson. But that's still cool.
2007-03-30 22:03:32
489.   LAT
A Kemp HR. That's like crack to a lot of folks around here
2007-03-30 22:03:51
490.   D4P
Gameday officially s---ks. It's a good thing Bob knows a guy. I expect change.
2007-03-30 22:04:31
491.   StolenMonkey86
belt high, right over the plate. Mama mia, that's a spicy meatball
2007-03-30 22:04:31
492.   underdog
By grabthar's hammer, that Kemp has some power, doesn't he?

Sweeeeeet. I look forward to June when he's up with the big club again. ;-)

2007-03-30 22:04:32
493.   capdodger
485 It's not like Bynum or Turiaf have been able to do much against him, either. Heck, the only reason Kob... I mean, the Lakers didn't run by Houston in the 2nd was because they spent the last 8 minutes of the quarter in the penalty and Yao kept hitting his free throws.
2007-03-30 22:05:01
494.   Bob Timmermann
I'd follow Gameday, but I haven't yet been able to sting together three computers in parallel to increase my CPU power.

Perhaps I should use something less RAM-intensive, like my search algorithm that will scour the entire web to find out how many times the letter "e" has been typed.

2007-03-30 22:05:03
495.   underdog Scot Shields, no less. Spring training or no, that's impressive.
2007-03-30 22:05:17
496.   Eric Enders
This year Xeifrank will mean it literally: "Gameday must be broken. It keeps saying every Dodger hitter is hitting a home run."
2007-03-30 22:05:26
497.   Daniel Zappala
What really st--ks is that we probably have a number of DT readers that could write a better Gameday for them, but do they think to ask us??
2007-03-30 22:06:16
498.   CanuckDodger
Some people think I said I believe players DELIBERATELY tank their performance to spite a player they don't like. I said Dave Stieb accused his teammates of that. I explicitly said I DON'T believe that, that I think it is subconscious. The psychology of athletic teams is like the psychology of mobs. People in these environments feed off each other, hence collective slumps, and teams getting "hot."
2007-03-30 22:07:54
499.   capdodger
Wow... That's a really dumb Jumbotron question....
2007-03-30 22:07:54
500.   D4P
but do they think to ask us??

N-, they don't.

Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2007-03-30 22:08:23
501.   Bob Timmermann
Won't realize that fewer people are using Gameday and then make changes to it?

There is a blog where you can leave comments on it.

The last time I checked there were three. No one complained about it being a RAM hog.

2007-03-30 22:08:26
502.   underdog
478 I was actually thinking of a bad manager - which was somewhere in between a bad co-worker and a bad boss, in that experience I had, but more like the latter. Not my boss, but a boss of some of my coworkers. A good combination of interference, micromanaging, insulting and just general unhappiness, which cast a pall over everything.
2007-03-30 22:08:38
503.   Greg Brock
492 That's your second Galaxy Quest quote of the night. A very underrated movie.

"Yeah, but that's when I thought I was the crewman that stays on the ship, and something is up there, and it kills me. But now I'm thinking I'm the guy who gets killed by some monster five minutes after we land on the planet."

2007-03-30 22:09:17
504.   Daniel Zappala
The Angels have three minor-league shortstops playing the infield -- Wood, Statia, and Rodriguez. Quick, put Aybar in CF!
2007-03-30 22:09:22
505.   JoeyP
Kemp leads the Dodgers with 4 spring training homers.

Lamar/Kobe missed wide open 3's that could have tied the Lakers-Rockets game.

2007-03-30 22:10:16
506.   StolenMonkey86
I like how Rudy Seanez still has a Padres hat
2007-03-30 22:10:40
507.   Jon Weisman
498 - Conscious or not, it's still the responsibility of people to do their jobs to the best of their ability. I really have trouble with blaming one baseball player for lowering the collective production of the other 24. It just doesn't track. If the other 24 are so good, the good vibes should easily outweigh the bad.
2007-03-30 22:11:09
508.   StolenMonkey86
504 - You mean they have more shortstops than we do?
2007-03-30 22:13:13
509.   xaphor
501. The conspiracy to increase viewership grows.
2007-03-30 22:13:33
510.   Eric Enders
504 Wasn't there a time last year when the Dodgers could have fielded a team made up entirely of guys who started their careers as shortstops?

C Martin
1B Nomar
2B Izturis
3B Betemit
SS Furcal
LF R Martinez
CF Repko
RF Lugo

2007-03-30 22:13:55
511.   Daniel Zappala
508 That's not counting Callaspo, who was traded to Arizona and ended up in the OF this spring.
2007-03-30 22:15:28
512.   El Lay Dave
477 *finger*sticks, in my wife's field.
2007-03-30 22:15:37
513.   JoeyP
Kobe ties it.
2007-03-30 22:16:00
514.   Daniel Zappala
You've got to be kidding me, Kobe.
2007-03-30 22:16:19
515.   Jon Weisman
513 - That was an awesome shot. I tuned in to watch the last 41 seconds of the game about 10 minutes ago. Thirty seconds have gone by. But it was worth it to see that shot.
2007-03-30 22:16:21
516.   Bob Timmermann
My main reasons not to get
1) spite
2) Chase Carey's mustache

The order varies depending upon my mood.

2007-03-30 22:16:24
517.   FirstMohican
So by the way.... there's a pretty good Laker game going on tonight.

Kwame misses 2 FTs w/ Lakes down by 3 w/ 16 left. Kobe gets RB and nails a tre.

2007-03-30 22:16:36
518.   Eric Enders
DeJesus is gonna be a ballplayer.
2007-03-30 22:16:48
519.   Andrew Shimmin
Are all collective slumps caused by a bad apple, or are some of them just the work of chance? Same question for low run support. Does low run support correlate significantly from year to year? Or do bad character players develop better character, some years?

I don't care enough about any of this to look it up. But it has the odor of ex post facto scapegoating about it.

2007-03-30 22:17:09
520.   JoeyP
That was great strategy by Van Gundy too, to foul Kwame. Kobe's just in a zone. This might be the best he's ever played, although I think in 2003 when Shaq was out, and Kobe had like 10 straigt 40+ point games was a high level too.
2007-03-30 22:17:39
521.   Bob Timmermann
One other website that kills my Firefox browser all the time is Franklin Avenue.

I have to view that in Safari.

2007-03-30 22:17:46
522.   Jon Weisman
That was like watching Tiger Woods sink a fallaway 40-foot putt with a man on him.
2007-03-30 22:18:28
523.   Bob Timmermann
You mean DeJesus = Brady Clark?
2007-03-30 22:18:29
524.   das411
418 - Thanks for the suggestion Bob, but it does not seem to have worked. It's quite odd, for every team page that app works just fine, only on the main does it not load...I guess this means it's time to crank up my old nemesis, Windows Update...

503 - Brock! Scott Long has something he'd like you to explain to him:

2007-03-30 22:18:35
525.   Jon Weisman
Yeah, Franklin Avenue is a hard load.
2007-03-30 22:21:03
526.   Jon Weisman
So, since I'm trying to reach a wider audience, and since having this character debate is no fun, I just want to say, as part of the only remaining household still watching it, I still like Six Degrees, and wish it weren't just playing out the string like so many Kansas City Royals. Yes, coincidence plays a role, but that doesn't stop it from being very endearing.
2007-03-30 22:21:09
527.   Ivan Alexeev
Ditto on the Tiger Woods reference. Kobe worked hard for OT there. If only Kwame had been able to hit the front end of those free throws.

Is there anyone in baseball as clutch as Kobe? Is that comparison even reasonable?

2007-03-30 22:21:22
528.   Eric Enders

Is the son.

Of Chris Speier who.


2007-03-30 22:21:36
529.   Greg Brock
This Bryant fellow is a pretty good cager.
2007-03-30 22:22:01
530.   Daniel Zappala
You guys need to switch to Linux. Gameday works fine (a tad slow, but nothing terrible, no RAM issues) and Franklin Avenue loads as fast as any other site.
2007-03-30 22:22:21
531.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, and I was watching that show too!

I should really go look for a new apartment. Who knows what will happen to me?

2007-03-30 22:23:41
532.   Daniel Zappala
Silly me, I thought Odom fouled out on his 5th foul -- watching too much college BB.
2007-03-30 22:25:03
533.   FirstMohican
Maybe Kobe will miss these 2 and Kwame will hit a triple.
2007-03-30 22:25:29
534.   Bob Timmermann
Lawler's Law and Timmermann's Law of Overtimes invoked simultaneously!
2007-03-30 22:26:37
535.   underdog
I'm embarrassed to say I've never watched Six Degrees. Though I guess I'm not alone, it sounds like. I have, however, seen Andy Barker PI!

I was shocked to see someone other than Kobe shoot there on that last possession.

2007-03-30 22:26:50
536.   Jon Weisman
530 - Or, Gameday should adjust itself to work as well as every other site.
2007-03-30 22:27:01
537.   Greg Brock
534 Yes, but if the Lakers win, Timmermann's Corollary is rendered null.

It's a no-win situation!

2007-03-30 22:27:40
538.   JoeyP
53 for Kobe
2007-03-30 22:28:21
539.   Daniel Zappala
536 The fault is all mine. We need to send better programmers out into the world. I try my best.
2007-03-30 22:29:08
540.   D4P
I don't even know what Six Degrees is. Or are.
2007-03-30 22:29:54
541.   Eric Enders
540 Me either. But I guess that goes without saying.
2007-03-30 22:30:24
542.   Bob Timmermann
Shouldn't make Gameday work on the more popular platforms rather than making the vast majority of the public try to become as computer savvy as Professor Zappala?

That sort of thinking makes me want to go and find a place to mount a satellite dish on my apartment too. I think I'm going for something that's Jodrell Bank size.

2007-03-30 22:31:06
543.   Jon Weisman
541 - If only I hadn't posted my review of it on the poorly read Screen Jam.
2007-03-30 22:31:37
544.   JoeyP
Bad foul by kobe
2007-03-30 22:31:44
545.   Jon Weisman
Gameday validates CanuckDodger's arguments. Look at the havoc it wreaks.
2007-03-30 22:33:13
546.   Daniel Zappala
If it wasn't clear, I was teasing. For as much money that MLB makes, they have absolutely no excuse for such poor software. I sent them a very polite email explaining some of these issues to them, and their only response was to cancel my subscription, with no pro-rated refund. The way they run their site is a travesty.
2007-03-30 22:33:15
547.   JoeyP
Ok, now Kobe is set for a game winner hopefully.
2007-03-30 22:33:44
548.   Greg Brock
Kobe's great, but if he's guarded by three guys, somebody is probably open.

But if it's Smush, go ahead and shoot, Kobe.

2007-03-30 22:34:45
549.   Eric Enders
Mondayism: "So the big ox, Bronathan Oxton, goes 1-2-3..."
2007-03-30 22:34:49
550.   capdodger
Heck of a (moving) pick by Yao.
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2007-03-30 22:35:44
551.   JoeyP
Travelling in the NBA?
What was that Kobe?
2007-03-30 22:36:23
552.   Jon Weisman
546 - Now that's customer service!
2007-03-30 22:36:25
553.   FirstMohican
That was like 5 steps, Kobe.
2007-03-30 22:37:13
554.   Bob Timmermann
Billy Packer would have allowed the traveling by Kobe. Because that would have been the outcome he preferred.
2007-03-30 22:38:01
555.   JoeyP
Tough loss for the Lakers.
They didnt have it, then had it, then let it slip away again.
2007-03-30 22:38:12
556.   Jon Weisman
Wow, Vin's going to Milwaukee. That's news!
2007-03-30 22:38:26
557.   Bob Timmermann
I left a comment on the Gameday blog that was decidedly negative.

But not rude.

2007-03-30 22:38:32
558.   Greg Brock
Timmermann's Law of Overtimes and Lawler's Law go down.

The Corollary remains strong.

2007-03-30 22:38:33
559.   Jon Weisman
Okay, good night, everyone...don't burn the place down.
2007-03-30 22:38:40
560.   FirstMohican
534 - They must be mutually exclusive.
2007-03-30 22:39:16
561.   Bob Timmermann
My ---- doesn't work in the NBA.
2007-03-30 22:40:43
562.   capdodger
553 It was the drag of the right combined with the pickup of the left. Kobe was saying he was pivoting on the right, but that was after he'd dragged it 18" across the floor.
2007-03-30 22:43:15
563.   Bob Timmermann
You can only get away with that if you're Jeff Green.
2007-03-30 22:43:50
564.   Eric Enders
554 Are you back to using his name now?
2007-03-30 22:45:25
565.   capdodger
559 We'll just build our own site! With Blackjack. And Hookers. In fact, forget the site.
2007-03-30 22:47:03
566.   Bob Timmermann
I will use Billy Packer's name, but only in slanderous ways.

I loved a USA Today story about him and how he claims that the NCAA Tournament gets good ratings because everybody talks to him about it and he was going to challenge the Nielsen rating service to get a better rating.

But a spokesman from Nielsen said, "It's not like people come up to Billy Packer in an airport and talk to him about 'American Idol'"

2007-03-30 22:47:08
567.   D4P
My wife and I started watching Futurama a few weeks ago, and to my surprise, she absolutely loves it. She wants Nibbler merchandise.
2007-03-30 22:47:34
568.   underdog
Whoa. Before you go to bed, Jon, you may want to read Bill Shaikin's new column in the LA Times.

In Brock's era, batting average ruled. Today, the Dodgers are condemned for paying attention to the wrong statistics.

Keith Law, a former assistant general manager for the Toronto Blue Jays, labeled Pierre on "a player whose ideal role is defensive replacement/pinch runner." At Baseball Prospectus, a baseball think tank, Marc Normandin alluded to Pierre's high stolen base total in calling him "more useful to your fantasy baseball team than a real team." Dodger Thoughts blogger Jon Weisman, slapping General Manager Ned Colletti, said the signing of Pierre had "validated the worst fears of anyone who suspected he was too enamored of pointless statistics ... to make sensible decisions."

The criticism spread to talk shows, to message boards and even to the Dodgers' website, where public relations director Josh Rawitch pleaded for mercy for Pierre.

"I sure hope you will all give him a chance," Rawitch wrote, "to win you over."

(It's actually an interesting read.)

I hope the comments field doesn't implode after I post this.

2007-03-30 22:49:17
569.   underdog
Love of Futurama is definitely one thing my g/f and I have in common. I think we've seen the "human horn" episode alone about 50 times.

Okay, I'm going to bed. Hope the Times article doesn't cause this blog to turn in on itself like a black hole.

night all! {Runs away}

2007-03-30 22:50:26
570.   Greg Brock
Jon makes the Times: Awesome

The LA Times Quotes a blogger: Holy ----

2007-03-30 22:51:23
571.   Greg Brock
The "----" is for "Smokes", by the way. No rules violations here!
2007-03-30 22:54:00
572.   Eric Enders
568 I found this part rather amusing:

Today, the Angels employ a statistical analyst and compile proprietary information. When they signed outfielder Gary Matthews Jr. to a five-year, $50-million contract over the winter, after career highs in virtually every offensive category last season at age 31, had the Angels developed any data to suggest Matthews might not have had a career year?

"Not really," Stoneman said. "It's more scouting-related. We got him to help with our defense, and he should be a big help. But that comes from scouting, especially defensively — his first-step quickness, the jumps he gets, the routes he takes to the ball, throwing arm. It's all stuff you've got to see."

Stoneman said he considers "a lot more" than statistics in evaluating players.

"What kind of a person is he?" Stoneman said. "How does he fit within the club? Does he play with a lot of heart? Is he a distraction to the club? There's a lot of thought that goes into it."

2007-03-30 22:54:55
573.   underdog
(Yeah, honestly I left the article more worried about Stoneman than about Colletti, by comparison.)
2007-03-30 22:57:27
574.   bhsportsguy
I thought the article was fair, Jon's quote was used more as part of the collection of commentors about the Pierre deal.

Of course that is why I used bhsportsguy as opposed to my name.

2007-03-30 22:57:33
575.   bhsportsguy
I thought the article was fair, Jon's quote was used more as part of the collection of commentors about the Pierre deal.

Of course that is why I used bhsportsguy as opposed to my name.

2007-03-30 22:57:58
576.   D4P
Nothing drives statistically oriented fans batty more than intangibles — heart, character, chemistry and other such terms impossible to quantify. Colletti uses them proudly.

Ned on Pierre:

"First of all, the man's character is outstanding," Colletti said. "His love for the game, his ability to prepare for the game and help other teammates, to help young players — I haven't found anybody that gives the guy a B+. It's all A's, across the board. That's going to be tough to measure in a stat book.

2007-03-30 22:58:04
577.   Eric Enders
Unless Jon cranks out a new post in the morning, this thread may go over 1,000.
2007-03-30 22:59:00
578.   Greg Brock
I don't make half an evaluation of a player simply based on statistics.


2007-03-30 22:59:57
579.   Bob Timmermann
Comparing Lou Brock to Juan Pierre is not very good, when you consider that Brock hit 149 homers in his career and Pierre has hit 12.

Pierre is a better fielder than Brock, who was a butcher in left field.

2007-03-30 23:00:37
580.   capdodger
567 Yeah... Same boat here. My wife and I will probably end up accidentally buying two copies of the new DVDs as "gifts" for one another.

Favorite episodes: "The Sting", "Jurassic Bark"

2007-03-30 23:01:15
581.   JoeyP
568--I didnt know Kevin Towers was a sabermetrician. Makes sense that Alderson, DePo, and Towers can work well together:

"It seems like each and every year there's a new stat to look at," Towers said. "I think there are organizations that aren't looking at that type of stuff, and I think they're missing the boat."

On David Ecstein
He's an on-base machine," the assistant said.

"Look at his size," Towers said. "Look at the scouting reports."

The Padres passed. The Angels claimed David Eckstein, who developed into the shortstop on their World Series championship team.

"We followed him and saw what he ended up doing," Towers said, "and said we better start paying attention to some of these things."

And the young assistant? He was Theo Epstein, hired two years later as general manager of the Boston Red Sox, at age 28.

Ned on Pierre
"First of all, the man's character is outstanding," Colletti said. "His love for the game, his ability to prepare for the game and help other teammates, to help young players — I haven't found anybody that gives the guy a B+. It's all A's, across the board. That's going to be tough to measure in a stat book.

"When we're in a close game, and somebody capable of stealing 30, 40, 50, 60 bases gets on base late in the game, that's tough to defense. The speed of the player will keep the defense moving. It will keep the pitcher in a split-second of indecision or loss of concentration. It will keep the catcher in a position of worrying about the hitter, the pitcher and the baserunner.

Colletti is pretty much what we all hoped he wouldnt be. He's as old school as Bill Bavasi and Jim Hendry. Will the Dodgers have Cub/Mariner type results?

2007-03-30 23:01:38
582.   bhsportsguy
Of course the Eckstein example falls into both camps.
2007-03-30 23:02:32
583.   capdodger
577 Is that before or after the culling of violation-laden postts?
2007-03-30 23:02:51
584.   Greg Brock
There was a time, not too long ago, when he did walk more and his on-base percentage was higher. That's the stat everybody keeps questioning, right?

Yes, Ned. That would be the stat everybody keeps questioning. And if JP had a lot of walks now, we would not be as upset. But he does not walk anymore, and you knew that when you signed him, you silly little mustache having man.

2007-03-30 23:05:02
585.   Greg Brock
Jon, wake up!
Wake up, Jon!

{waves arms frantically}

2007-03-30 23:05:16
586.   Bob Timmermann
ToyCannon and I shared stories of our mutual admiration of Eckstein at the game Thursday night.

We had to do it away from the disapproving eyes of the DT community. We felt like the Apostles right after Jesus' crucifixion.

2007-03-30 23:05:37
587.   JoeyP
Its good to know that Colletti believes a pinch runner is worth 45 mils bucks. Bc when he essentially describes the situations that Pierre will help (late inning, close game, speed needed)-- he's describing a pinch runner.
2007-03-30 23:06:56
588.   xaphor
"[Pierre]'s an interesting player to talk about," Colletti said.

Like a conversation piece. Boy do I hate getting those. Then again, I've never received one with a $44 million price tag.

2007-03-30 23:09:10
589.   Greg Brock
586 I admire David Eckstein. For a little guy like him to do what he's done is amazing. He's an inspiration to little dudes everywhere.

Just don't tell me he's an above average player.

2007-03-30 23:10:25
590.   D4P
Wait a second: David Eckstein is little...? Why have I never heard that before?
2007-03-30 23:10:50
591.   bhsportsguy
Somehow I knew this would be a rehash of the Pierre deal.


2007-03-30 23:13:44
592.   LAT
Help me please. My daughter is driving me crazy (very crazy) to figure out who the current youngest mlb player is and I can't find it. Any ideas?
2007-03-30 23:14:34
593.   D4P
Given that the Pierre deal lasts for 5 (5!*) years, and given that he has not yet played a single game, we really haven't been rehashing his deal for that long.

* The exclamation point expresses shock, not 5 factorial

2007-03-30 23:14:54
594.   Greg Brock
591 I think it's more of a Fisking/FJMing of the article, and, more importantly, how our GM looks at things.

We don't have to do this again. Maybe we could have a separate thread for this article, and keep it away from everybody who doesn't want to rehash this.

2007-03-30 23:15:14
595.   capdodger
I think the comparison between Pierre and Brock is a weak one. Brock stole at a little better than 75% in a less power-driven era. Because of the lower concentration of Home Run Hitters, his breakeven point for being a beneficial basefunn was probably lower than it would be for an equal player now. Pierre steals at a little under 75% in a power-driven era. He's breakeven, at best, once he gets on.

Brock also had power, making him all the more useful in a less powerful era. JP's on pace for something like 35-40 HRs in the same number of ABs as Brock.

2007-03-30 23:15:34
596.   D4P
Would she believe you if you said "Shawn Green"...?
2007-03-30 23:16:22
597.   Bob Timmermann
Felix Hernandez of Seattle was the youngest player last year. He will turn 21 on April 8. I don't know if someone younger is going to make a 25-man roster.

Check the Marlins or D-Rays.

2007-03-30 23:16:57
598.   bhsportsguy
592 Short of looking at each MLB roster, not sure what to tell you.
2007-03-30 23:17:11
599.   Greg Brock
Brock had a 109 OPS+.
The other guy's is 86
2007-03-30 23:18:22
600.   GoBears
I wasn't gonna, but now I will. That first inning was a microcosm of all that is good and bad and pointless about Pierre's speed.

Bunt single. OK. Great. No better than a walk or a regular single, but a hit nonetheless. Well done.

Steals 2b. Bad jump - an on-target throw would've nailed him, but it was off-line and didn't, and he's on 2nd of his own accord. Great.

Breaks back to 2nd on LD to left. Only advances to 3rd. Should have scored. A good, conservative play that you might want from a catcher or a slugger on the basepaths, but not one you want from a guy who is valuable only for his speed.

Breaks back to 3rd on the next line drive. Scores anyway, but again, it shows bad baserunning instincts.

So, in the end, he scored, and NONE of the baserunning mattered. He stole a base and then got two bad jumps on singles, and NONE of it made a dime's worth of difference.

That's the point about stolen bases that most people ignore. Even when they work, they rarely matter.

And I've heard this about Pierre since he was in Florida. That he's very fast, but has terrible baserunning skills. With his speed, he ought to get many more "extra bases" than he actually does.

Show/Hide Comments 601-650
2007-03-30 23:20:52
601.   D4P
When I look at the box score, why is it that the number after Pierre's name for the TB stat almost always equals the number after his name for the H stat...?
2007-03-30 23:21:11
602.   capdodger
600 Maybe no one ever told him to freeze on a line drive with less than two outs.

Anyone have his email/Phone/MySpace?

2007-03-30 23:24:47
603.   Bob Timmermann
I haven't found anyone younger than King Felix looking at the teams most likely to have a young player.
2007-03-30 23:25:25
604.   GoBears
Now, to be all equal-time about this, it's also worth recalling how Gary Matthews Jr. (the other SoCal CF FA brain-fart) misplayed Olmedo's double in the first inning.

It wasn't Loftonesque with all the twirling and spinning, but he did jump OVER the ball. It hit the wall below his glove. That means he should have had it easily.

I'm not saying I could have made the play. But a major leaguer should have. Especially one who was signed for his defense.

2007-03-30 23:25:30
605.   bhsportsguy
594 I agree with that and its fine to look at the larger issue of how player personnel decisions are made.

The main problem I see is that no one disputes that those "intangibles" are important when comes to acquiring a player because obviously thats part of the due diligence a team is going do before signing or trading for him.

However, it seems that the "intangibles" are often used to counter any statistical based discussion as if stats are just numbers on a sheet and not results of a player's performance.

2007-03-30 23:26:48
606.   D4P
but he did jump OVER the ball

Things that make you go hmmmm.....

2007-03-30 23:27:13
607.   GoBears
How old is that kid CFer coming out of half a season in AA (I can't remember which team). De la Aza or something like that...
2007-03-30 23:28:18
608.   Bob Timmermann
De Aza is 22.
2007-03-30 23:29:45
609.   Bob Timmermann
And De Aza will turn 23 on April 11.
2007-03-30 23:30:47
610.   GoBears
Over-jumped, that is. Glove higher than ball.
2007-03-30 23:30:59
611.   xaphor
LAT: Hernandez is still the youngest pup according to ESPN.

2007-03-30 23:31:44
612.   GoBears
Ah, thanks. De Aza. Was only half-listening to ESPNews while making coffee this morning.
2007-03-30 23:32:38
613.   LAT
Thanks very much. With that, she now agrees to go to bed. I'm beginning to understand why someone came up with the boarding school concept.
2007-03-30 23:35:12
614.   Greg Brock
605 Yeah, I just don't get how somebody can counter "He's not very good" with "He's the first guy to show up at the park everyday". Yes, and he's not very good!

Nice guys aren't always closers. Mitch and Murray would not approve of this kind of thing. Juan Pierre would not get the Glengarry leads.

2007-03-30 23:35:15
615.   GoBears
611. Wow. I'm surprised to see that the average age for the Yankees is only 29.7.
2007-03-30 23:42:51
616.   GoBears
614 Yeah, from all I hear, I'd like very much for Juan Pierre to be my next-door neighbor (and not just because that would mean I could live in a neighborhood full of brazillionaires). He sounds like a great guy and a hard worker. But he still has no business starting in the major leagues, at least not for a team with money and options.

I would not want to live anywhere near Gary Sheffield/Milton Bradley/Jeff Kent/Kevin Brown. But those fellas, in their prime (as Pierre supposedly is now) belong. Now, if you still don't want to root for them because they're jerks, fine. But don't try to tell me they're worse players because they're jerks, any more than that JP is a better player than he really is because he's a good person.

2007-03-30 23:48:51
617.   LAT
That chart is interesting. The oldest team is not the Giants but the Red Sox. The fattest team is the White Sox. (Thome must be the difference) The skinniest TB. And then there is the Mets with a 48 yr old player. I love that guy.
2007-03-30 23:50:14
618.   xaphor
615. The oldest player for the Nationals is 33 whilst the average age for the Mets is 30.1. Of course having the 48 year old Franco skews the numbers quite a bit.
2007-03-30 23:55:15
619.   xaphor
617. Houston being near the bottom in both height and weight is clearly missing its target demographic.
2007-03-31 00:19:49
620.   Bob Timmermann
Meanwhile, Bill Plaschke has declared that he is finally on the UCLA bandwagon after picking them to lose six of their last seven NCAA tournament games. That included picking them to Indiana this year.
2007-03-31 00:20:27
621.   Bob Timmermann
"picking them to lose to Indiana" I should say.

In other words, I welcome our Floridian overlords!

2007-03-31 00:30:47
622.   Bob Timmermann
I see that the Good Professor Zappala left some helpful hints for the MLB Gameday people.

Who I'm sure will take my kvetching and Daniel's constructive criticism to heart and not react to it.

2007-03-31 00:34:11
623.   Greg Brock
I thought we had a pretty decent chance to win until I read Plaschke's article.

Now I just hope we don't get smoked. Thanks Bill!

2007-03-31 01:57:41
624.   natepurcell
In his office at Dodger Stadium, Colletti reaches across a table and runs his finger across a sheet filled with statistics. Pierre, it turns out, has a higher career on-base percentage than Brock, the Hall of Famer.

"That," Colletti said with a smile, "is good news."

Take that D4P!!!

2007-03-31 07:36:18
625.   Daniel Zappala
624 My first reaction was to go to Baseball Reference, neutralize the statistics, and find that Colletti was wrong. Brock wins, .352 to .350, OPS is .775 to .727.
2007-03-31 07:37:16
626.   Daniel Zappala
623 See, where you went wrong is you read Pla---ke's article. I've sworn never to read him again.
2007-03-31 07:39:17
627.   Daniel Zappala
Just for fun, because I always preferred the Gary Matthews Jr signing:

CF Ranking by OPS:

Year Ranking Player
2003 14 Juan Pierre
2004 14 Juan Pierre
2005 18 Juan Pierre
2006 18 Juan Pierre
(typically 20 players qualify per year)

2003 17 Gary Matthews Jr.
2004 10 Gary Matthews Jr. (200+ ABs)
2005 11 Gary Matthews Jr.
2006 7 Gary Matthews Jr.

2007-03-31 07:48:41
628.   Super Nintendo Chalmers
Can anyone recommend a beer that pairs well with fried chicken?
2007-03-31 07:49:11
629.   Daniel Zappala
We're in good hands:

Ned Colletti, Dodgers
VORP: "I can't remember what the exact definition is."
BABIP: "What's that?"

Bill Stoneman, Angels
VORP: "No."
BABIP: "No."

Kevin Towers, Padres
VORP: "Yes."
BABIP: "You'd have to ask the number crunchers on that one. I couldn't tell you."

Billy Beane, Athletics
VORP: "Value over replacement player."
BABIP: "Which one is that? I don't even know what that one is."

2007-03-31 08:08:20
630.   D4P
It's kind of amazing that some people get paid nothing to watch baseball, and yet know what BABIP is, and other people get paid millions of dollars to not only watch but put the actual roster together, and have no clue what BABIP is.
2007-03-31 08:09:58
631.   Bob Timmermann
The response from my friend at about Gameday taking up too much RAM and not working well.

"You should just buy a new computer."

He was speaking unofficially, although I believe that would's attitude.

2007-03-31 08:11:09
632.   D4P
Doesn't sound like much of a "friend" to me...
2007-03-31 08:14:57
633.   Bob Timmermann
Andrew's criticism of Gameday on's blog might be construed as less than constructive, but it's funny.
2007-03-31 08:16:20
634.   Bob Timmermann
He's powerless to do anything with the way that works and he's just giving me what the attitude from his bosses would be.
2007-03-31 08:22:43
635.   Greg Brock
628 Newcastle Brown Ale is the official beer of Dodger Thoughts.

It goes well will everything. Well, probably tastes bad with cereal, but that's about it.

2007-03-31 08:29:23
636.   Bob Timmermann
I'm off Monday and I will give Gameday another chance to see how it works for other games.

But if it doesn't, I'm off on a rant.

This guy, a different Joe Sheehan,
loved it.

2007-03-31 08:30:37
637.   D4P
Where can one find this " blog"...?
2007-03-31 08:32:17
638.   Greg Brock
2007-03-31 08:46:54
639.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm not very good at constructive criticism. Absurdist taunting is more my speed.
2007-03-31 09:01:29
640.   Andrew Shimmin
Always nice to see Jon get some press (what, it would kill them to include the url?), but the Shaikin piece isn't much. He said/He said, Lou Brock non sequitur, bethumbed scale comparison, rinse, lather, repeat.

And the other one should cast a shadow over the Colletti knows more than X-commenter-who-disagrees-with-any-of-his-decisions argument. He clearly knows things that other people don't, but it seems possible that he doesn't know more. And that the things he knows aren't worth more than the things other people know. All the things he knows didn't keep Kuo from pitching with a sore shoulder, for example. Or signing Juan Pierre.

2007-03-31 09:04:40
641.   Greg Brock
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
2007-03-31 09:16:58
642.   das411
End-of-post note from Phila: "Rightfielder Shane Victorino was in Las Vegas for the birth of his daughter, Kali'a Makenna Victorino-Smith"
2007-03-31 09:29:35
643.   Bob Timmermann
Gotta appreciate those glottal stops!
2007-03-31 09:34:42
644.   underdog
Gee, what a surprise - ESPN's Monday (the first real, full day for baseball) coverage is the Yankees game, followed by the Red Sox game. Not that I expected them to have the Dodgers-Brewers game instead, but still, it's gonna be a long year.


Speaking of the Phils, old minor league friend Heath Totten is now pitching for their minor league AA team. Poor guy.

2007-03-31 09:41:14
645.   Jon Weisman
End-of-post note: New post up top.
2007-03-31 10:51:25
646.   rockmrete
The problem with only using stats is you can sometimes miss, or ignore the little things...
Runner on second with less than two freeze,or move back towards the base...The stat will show it was a single and the runner should have scored. What it does not show is direction, trajectory, or speed of the fast did it get to left fielder...

Runner on third with less than two outs... Anything hit in the air you move back towards the base in order to tag up if neccessary.

2007-03-31 10:52:07
647.   rockmrete
Too late.
2007-03-31 11:37:33
648.   capdodger
646 I would argue that your little things do show up in the stats.
You see, there's these stat called runs and RBIs which can be split by situation.

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