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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

2008-02-07 17:15
by Jon Weisman

I've had this headline stored since April 3, but never found a story to go with it. Time to use it or lose it.

  • I'm no poker buff (unlike seemingly the rest of the human race), but I gather from Ted O'Neill's post at Red Bull + Poker that Orel Hershiser is a Bulldog at the the game. (Thanks to my brother's brother-in-law for the link. Is the brother-in-law of my brother my brother-in-law?)

  • Stat of the Day makes a case for Bill Buckner as the most average offensive baseball player of all time, edging out Pee Wee Reese. Of course, to be average over a long career is actually pretty good, isn't it? Semantic conundrum.

  • At Minor League Ball, John Sickels revisits top prospects of 2000. Past and present Dodgers pepper the list, especially in the teens:

    13) Brad Penny, RHP: 83 career win shares.
    14) Chin-feng Chen, OF: Topped out as a Triple-A slugger.
    15) Rafael Furcal, SS: 161 career win shares.
    16) Eric Gagne, RHP: 77 career win shares. Had run as one of the best closers in history.
    18) Hee Seop Choi, 1B: Has vanished. 26 career win shares. I suspect his career could have gone much differently.

  • In 2009, Alex White could be the third No. 1 overall pick in the baseball draft in four years that was previously drafted by the Dodgers, points out ToyCannon at True Blue L.A.

  • Bobby Castillo, Ken Landreaux and Darryl Strawberry will be inducted tonight into the Reviving Baseball in the Inner Cities (RBI) Hall of Fame. Or, as the press release interestingly puts it, "Dodger legends Bobby Castillo and Kenny Landreaux, along with former Dodger Darryl Strawberry, will make up the 2008 class of the RBI Hall of Fame."

    Now, the flameout of Strawberry after his 28-homer debut in Los Angeles is well-chronicled, but it's not as if Landreaux or Castillo set the house afire (other than the latter tutoring Fernando Valenzuela with the screwball). The distinction seems to relate to the retired players' World Series rings with the Dodgers current involvement with the organization. Castillo and Landreaux are "active members of the Dodger Legends Bureau and recently participated in the 50th anniversary Dodgers community caravan."

  • This profile by Dodger team historian Mark Langill at is accompanied by a photo of Don Zimmer as a zippy shortstop.

  • Speaking of photos, William Barnes of L.A. CityZine offers this image-laden recap of the Dodgers in Santa Monica earlier this week.

  • Steve Garvey gets a chapter at Josh Wilker's Cardboard Gods.

  • Watch for Lost chat later tonight at Screen Jam and Season Pass.

  • Comments (171)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2008-02-07 17:45:48
    1.   Jon Weisman
    I can't recall if anyone mentioned Kelvim Escobar not being ready for Opening Day.,1,2615721.story

    2008-02-07 17:49:11
    2.   trainwreck
    We should offer Colon a minor league deal. It seems like that is the type of deal he will eventually have to take if he wants to pitch.
    2008-02-07 18:01:35
    3.   natepurcell
    So why is Joe Blanton and Dodgers coming up again?

    Haven't we already crossed this bridge, doused it with gasoline and burned it to the ground so it can never be crossed again?

    2008-02-07 18:01:45
    4.   Gen3Blue
    I got Saito before I saw his name, and Kemp by the small white earing. But I assume the next is Hanson, and I am shamed to admit that on the East Coast where we rarely got games in those days, I didn't know Hanson was black. Someone tell me if I'm wrong.
    2008-02-07 18:03:13
    5.   overkill94
    4 Dave Hanson? Ummm, no, he's white. What pictures are you talking about?
    2008-02-07 18:04:09
    6.   Bob Timmermann
    Bridge over the Blanton:

    Nate, in a fight to the death with cargill06, falls over on the plunger for the dynamite and yells, "Madness! Madness! Madness!"

    2008-02-07 18:08:43
    7.   bhsportsguy
    3 The Dodgers are now just being used as a bargaining chip because any deal with the Dodgers would have to include some of their young players so if Oakland wants Cincinatti to consider trading their best players, they'll leak that the Dodgers are interested to pump up the pot.
    2008-02-07 18:34:26
    8.   Jon Weisman
    4 - Do you mean Lou Johnson?
    2008-02-07 18:49:38
    9.   paranoidandroid
    Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but I was just solicited to reply to a survey from about various items concerning the Dodgers, the Stadium experience, views on the team, management, and the ownership. It was quite detailed.

    If you have questions as a journalist, their email address listed in the solicitation is:

    I took the survey and it was intriguing. It appears that among the things they are considering on weekday games is allowing fans to shag fly balls on the warning track. Sign me up!

    2008-02-07 18:55:33
    10.   paranoidandroid
    4 Dave Hanson? Very white. A real pale face. Blonde too. Might have been a Viking even.
    2008-02-07 19:11:24
    11.   paranoidandroid
    Actually, Dave Hansen is with an 'e' before the 'n'. You must be thinking of someone else. Did he have really long hair a few brothers that also looked like girls?
    2008-02-07 19:15:07
    12.   El Lay Dave
    Jon (or anyone else that gets it), I did recognize the words to the Furcal entry as "Bette Davis Eyes", but I still have no clue what the connection is. Am I missing something obvious?
    2008-02-07 19:19:18
    13.   Gen3Blue
    5,8,10etc. I probably saw the end of the lettering On Lou's jersey and somehow locked onto Hanson, which of course should be Hansen.
    As I recall our 3rd baseman to be before Hansen was Hamilton and the two are easy to confuse. Neither really provided the long term solution expected, although Hansen ended up a great pinch hitter.
    2008-02-07 19:24:59
    14.   Aug C
    I just saw some pictures of new Yankee stadium. I won't make an overly dramatic "it's disgusting" type of statement, but it just doesn't look like a baseball stadium from the outside.

    Whether we like it or not, one day, our beloved Dodger Stadium will be demolished, and they will build a new park. Perhaps it will be named Coca-Coca Field or Microhoo! Park. But I really hope it will be beautiful, so we don't have to live with an ugly monstrosity for the next 30-50 years.

    2008-02-07 19:25:04
    15.   Bluebleeder87
    Reading ToyCannon's piece that Jon mentioned, we're really blessed having Logan White around, at least that's what I thought reading TC's piece.
    2008-02-07 19:32:37
    16.   Samhain
    Sadly what I best* remember Babu Castillo for is admitting to standing in front of Steve Howe in the Dodger bullpen so Howe could snort cocaine without being seen by other Dodger players or coaches. :(

    *i.e. most strongly: best seems like the wrong word in this context

    2008-02-07 19:40:15
    17.   Jon Weisman
    12 - "He'll tease you, and unease you - all the better just to please you. He'll expose you, when he snows you off your feet with the crumbs he throws you. He'll take a tumble on you, roll you like you were dice, until you come out blue."

    It's a prediction of Furcal's 2008 season.

    2008-02-07 19:41:54
    18.   El Lay Dave
    I can still picture in my mind Ken Landreaux squeezing his glove around the ball for the last putout of the 1981 World Series and then making his victory hop.
    2008-02-07 19:51:19
    19.   El Lay Dave
    17 Thanks. I'd forgotten exactly when Bette Davis Eyes was the number one song of the year; it was the same as the Dodgers being #1, 1981.
    2008-02-07 19:57:27
    20.   Icaros

    I'd always heard that story attributed to Dave Stewart.

    2008-02-07 20:02:56
    21.   Jon Weisman
    Spoiler alert - Pac-10 score update coming in next comment.
    2008-02-07 20:03:51
    22.   Jon Weisman
    Stanford 37, Oregon 23 (half)
    Oregon State 29 (!), California 20 (6:52, 1st)
    USC 36, Washington 33 (half)
    UCLA 18, Washington State 17 (7:23, 1st)
    2008-02-07 20:04:47
    23.   Gen3Blue
    20 and that brings us back to Al Stewart and "Year of the Rat." Part of my family went to Springfield Ma. for a Ch. New Years celebration tonight.

    Public TV just had on a great John Fogerthy concert that I hadn't seen. Here on the EC.)

    2008-02-07 20:10:18
    24.   Andrew Shimmin
    That was a mighty Arch Rivals-esque move for WSU, there.
    2008-02-07 20:11:19
    25.   trainwreck
    Westbrook's biggest problem is trying to highlight dunk everything and he really paid for it there.
    2008-02-07 20:14:32
    26.   Jon Weisman
    Cal just went on a 12-2 run.
    2008-02-07 20:20:43
    27.   trainwreck
    I would not want to be spending halftime with Ben Howland after giving up 8 steals in a half.
    2008-02-07 20:25:15
    28.   Bob Timmermann
    The crowd in Seattle seems pretty quiet tonight.

    USC has much better looking road uniforms than home uniforms. The cardinal jerseys with the gold block letters are quite sharp. At home they either have the white ones with "Trojans" on them in script or gold ones with "Southern California" on them.

    USC is on a 19-0 run.

    2008-02-07 20:48:55
    29.   Lexinthedena
    I'm listening to "I Lost My Sonia" by Cocoa Tea..what a song....The "dideases" riddim can be listened to non-stop all's unstopable...
    2008-02-07 20:49:04
    30.   Daniel Zappala
    1 I was going to mention it, but there's been very little talk of the Angels here recently, so I didn't know if anyone cared. I was surprised to hear it, but the Angels should have enough pitching to cope with it. Saunders and Santana (who I'm still high on) don't have to fight for the 5th spot any more.
    2008-02-07 20:56:58
    31.   Bob Timmermann
    The Fighting Weismans demolished the Fighting D4Ps.
    2008-02-07 21:14:45
    32.   Andrew Shimmin
    Interesting. You'd think anybody who had time enough to take four shots would have been standing in the key for more than three seconds. But I guess not.
    2008-02-07 21:21:03
    33.   Bob Timmermann
    The three second count starts over with each new shot.
    2008-02-07 21:25:19
    34.   Bob Timmermann
    This is from a basketball rules website for officials:

    When is there no three-second-lane violation?
    Offensive players may position themselves in the free throw lane and move out before the ref counts to three seconds. As soon as the offensive team moves the ball into the offensive end of the court, the referee will be able to call a three second violation. When a shot is taken, the three second count for someone in the lane stops. During a shot, during the rebounding of a shot, and during an immediate put back off of the rebound, no three-second violation can be called.

    2008-02-07 21:28:46
    35.   Andrew Shimmin
    33- I didn't know that. Well, obviously I didn't. Huh. I withdraw my snide remark.
    2008-02-07 22:05:13
    36.   Jon Weisman
    My Lost post is up at Season Pass and ready for your comments ...

    2008-02-07 22:19:52
    37.   Daniel Zappala
    Sadly, I have not had a chance to watch Lost yet.
    2008-02-07 22:30:37
    38.   underdog
    I need to watch that episode again before commenting in any coherent manner. A blast, but I'm... well, lost, in places. Crazy.

    nice win for UCSB over Fullerton tonight in a huge Big West game. 83-80 final. The UCSB-UCI game is on Fox Saturday night.

    2008-02-07 22:37:16
    39.   trainwreck
    Michael Eisner claims they have reached a deal to end writers' strike.

    2008-02-07 22:42:26
    40.   silverwidow
    I encourage everyone to check out for a sneak peak of the 2008 Baseball Prospectus. The Dodger article is fantastic. They aren't exactly Colletti fans, however.

    "The Dodgers hold the best hand in the division. Their biggest handicap is the man playing it."

    2008-02-07 22:46:33
    41.   milkshakeballa
    Hope everyone is doing well.

    I met Nomar today. He was working out with his brother and father at his alma mater St. John Bosco HS. Nice guy. Smaller than I would have thought. Told him to have a good year, we are excited about Torre, and a lot of Dodger fans think this is the year. Then told him to have fun with the twins. LOL he laughed.

    As he walked away I said I'm also sorry Loney stole your job!!

    J/k about the last part, but thought you guys might be interested in this story. It was pretty cool watching his dad hit grounders to him and his bro. Good people.

    Go Dodgers...Go Lakers...and Go Bruins!

    2008-02-07 22:51:45
    42.   bhsportsguy
    40 I know some think I am a Dodger apologist but I do think that Baseball Prospectus has been over critical about the Dodgers since Paul DePodesta got fired.

    If you read their coverage, chats, analysis, you would have thought everything he has done has been proven wrong or he got lucky.

    I get it, they wanted to someone step into a situation with a different take but also have the luxury of being a large market team and have a good young players in the pipeline. And that was taken away before we could see how it would work out.

    But to say that they have given Ned a fair shake would be ignoring their writings for the past 2 1/2 years.

    2008-02-07 23:01:52
    43.   Xeifrank
    41. Nice story, thanks for sharing it. I am glad you didn't make that rude comment to him. :)
    vr, Xei
    2008-02-07 23:10:38
    44.   LogikReader
    There are several reports on and elsewhere that the latest WGA meetings were very good.

    So good, that the WGA strike could potentially be over by next week.


    2008-02-07 23:13:39
    45.   Eric Stephen
    Up to the minute Pac-10 standings, using the +/- system (+1 for a road win, -1 for a home loss, 0 for a home win or road loss):

    UCLA: +4 (9-1; RPI rank 10)
    Stanford: +3 (8-2; 18)
    USC: +2 (6-4; 41)
    Arizona: +1 (5-4; 7 - really? 7th???)
    Wash St: 0 (5-5; 23) - has lost 3 straight home games
    Oregon: -1 (4-6; 52)
    Cal: -1 (5-5; 65)
    ASU: -1 (4-5; 93)
    Washington: -3 (3-7)
    Oregon St: -4 (0-10)

    Some of the early season talk of the Pac 10 getting as many as 7 teams in the NCAA tournament seems unlikely now. The winner of Cal/Oregon on Saturday will seemingly take the inside track for spot #6, although there is still a lot of basketball to be played.

    USC needs another quality win, and a slumping WSU might be just what the doctor ordered. Should be a good game at noon thirty Saturday.

    2008-02-07 23:43:54
    46.   Bob Timmermann
    I hereby dub Eric Stephen as Dodger Thoughts official equivalent of Joe Lunardi.
    2008-02-07 23:47:50
    47.   Eric Stephen
    I always wanted to be an "ologist" of some obscure sort.
    2008-02-08 00:00:39
    48.   overkill94
    45 The RPI loves tough schedules and it doesn't get much tougher than Arizona's pre-PAC-10 slate. Obviously I don't think they should be ranked as a #2 seed at this point, but their W-L record shouldn't be held against them as much as a team who played a cupcake schedule should.
    2008-02-08 01:18:01
    49.   GoBears
    42. What did they write in this article that you disagree with? It doesn't matter if you think they have an axe to grind - assess the substance of what they wrote. If you disagree with something, make your case. They didn't give Colletti credit for cooling his jets this off-season, but it's pretty clear that they wrote the thing before anyone was sure that he would keep the kids. We know that because there's no mention of Kuroda.

    I've read all the BP articles over the last couple years about Colletti too, and I can't remember ever disagreeing with their assessment of his decisions. That they use colorful metaphors is merely style. That they "predict" even dumber moves is gallows humor. Do you think they've been incorrect about any of their judgments of his actual moves?

    I think he has been a terrible GM. That doesn't mean that every single decision he has made has been terrible. Nor does it mean that he can't learn, and I'm hopeful that this off-season is evidence that he has learned. But if McCourt were to fire him tomorrow, my only concern would be that he'd hire a Colletti clone who would need 2 more years to learn the same lessons (the hard way).

    I want you to know that I really do respect you for the energy, enthusiasm, and terrific research you bring to the comments here (I'm a free rider by comparison), but I don't think you're a Dodger apologist. I think you have a strong inclination to be an everything apologist. Sort of the anti-D4P, but contrarian nonetheless. But not every criticism is unjust. Not every cloud has a silver lining.

    Again, I'm not asking anyone to change, as if it would be my place to do so. You, sir, are one of the brightest lights here, and one of the reasons I never miss a comment (although I usually read them well after the fact).

    2008-02-08 03:15:49
    50.   Eric Enders
    45 "USC needs another quality win, and a slumping WSU might be just what the doctor ordered."

    I'll make a gentleman's wager with you on that one. USC is in for one heck of a beating.

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2008-02-08 04:51:05
    51.   D4P
    VH1 Classic plays way too much Ringo Starr. I know the guy played in a famous band, but is he really a big solo artist? I don't think I've heard a single one of his songs.
    2008-02-08 07:02:21
    52.   D4P
    This Bruce Springsteen video features a boy who looks like Courtney Cox dancing on the stage with Bruce.
    2008-02-08 07:16:34
    53.   D4P
    I love A-Ha's "Take On Me". 'Twas always one of my favorite videos.
    2008-02-08 07:24:00
    54.   Bob Timmermann
    I tell you where to find Ringo Starr's greatest hits, but it don't come easy.
    2008-02-08 07:31:45
    55.   D4P
    Flock of Seagulls's "I Ran" is more enjoyable to listen to than to watch.
    2008-02-08 07:38:51
    56.   D4P
    Whitney Houston gets "So Emotional" any time she thinks of me. Not sure why, since I can't stand her.

    This a weird channel. Sometimes the songs are a little warped. It's almost like a scratched record or CD or an old VHS tape. The songs sometimes speed up a little bit or slow down a little bit.

    2008-02-08 07:49:40
    57.   ToyCannon
    Would it be hypocritical to agree with Bhsportguy even if I have enjoyed making fun of Ned myself based on conjecture? I read every article written by BP and they always have a flippant insult to Ned somewhere in the writing that they don't do with the same percentage with the rest of their analysis. Sure they insult everyone, it is their style because they are so much smarter then the people in the game, but to this person, they take more shots at Ned then any other team, other then the 2005 World Champion White Sox or the 2002 World Champion Angels during their world championship runs.

    We as a community get up in arms when Will Carrol takes some vague shots at our Chad Billingsley but when BP takes the same vague shots at Ned based on unpublished innuendo only a few get rankled by it.

    2008-02-08 07:50:15
    58.   D4P
    Words used to describe Debbie Gibson's music do not include the following:


    2008-02-08 08:02:31
    59.   Nagman
    Not nearly the bulletin board material that he gave the Dodgers a few years ago, but another Towers quote, from the San Diego Union Tribune:

    When the Padres face the Dodgers in China next month, Towers wants them to give the Chinese crowds a preview of Dodgers-Padres games this season. "My hope is we can kick their tails over there and give them a little taste of what we're going to give them over the course of the season," said Towers, addressing a luncheon at the Hall of Champions in Balboa Park.

    2008-02-08 08:04:07
    60.   cargill06
    i know you guys all saw ken gurnick's projected line up and rotation what do you think??

    is this an acceptable conversation or am i beating a dead horse?

    2008-02-08 08:09:12
    61.   Gen3Blue
    58 They were probably trying to say something like beat-less
    2008-02-08 08:11:45
    62.   ToyCannon
    Towers is feeling cocky with his lineup?

    Saw my brilliant niece off yesterday, when she flew down to Mexico where she will finish out her Junior year in college. She won't be speaking English for 3 months and in her off time will be working in a local orphanage. She may be the whitest person they are likely to see since she hails from a place where the sun is just read about but rarely seen.

    2008-02-08 08:15:16
    63.   Eric Stephen
    Eric, I'm not that confident that USC will beat WSU, but it seems now is as good a time as any to face them as they are slumping. If USC continues to play defense they have a good chance at winning.

    That said, I will accept the bet. Whomever loses owes the other Eric a gentleman!

    Wait, that didn't sound right.

    2008-02-08 08:17:49
    64.   Eric Stephen
    Towers has always poked fun at the Dodgers -- and let's face it, with good reason. This culminated when Kevin Malone announced he was the "new sheriff in town". The next season's Padre media guide featured Towers and Bochy (and maybe owner John Moores) on the cover in old west sheriff gear.
    2008-02-08 08:22:36
    65.   Jon Weisman
    60 - Cargill, obviously, it's fine to talk about the Dodger lineup here. What we don't want is a situation where people are saying the same thing over and over again. If people have anything new to say about the lineup, they should feel free. Just don't assume you're being ignored if people don't have anything new to add.

    Also, everyone here should make sure they listen to what the other person is saying. Sometimes we're talking past each other - we're so eager to make our point that we're ignoring what's just been said.

    2008-02-08 08:23:05
    66.   ToyCannon
    That quote seems more along the lines of bravado and not so much along the lines of poking fun. It is something a blogger would say, not a GM.
    2008-02-08 08:23:08
    67.   cargill06
    64 that's funny, and it is from a previous thread where someone said padre fans think we don't view them as a rival that's why they don't like us. i couldn't disagree more i hate the padres more than any other team in the west right now. they're always competitive and even when they weren't it seems every time we went down there they beat our brains in. i get more enjoyment beating the padre's than beating any other west team
    2008-02-08 08:25:36
    68.   ToyCannon
    When Torre tells us his projected lineup then I'll have an opinion.
    2008-02-08 08:28:01
    69.   cargill06
    65 jon, like i said i don't get much of a chance to get on this site. i just wanted to talk about the big story of the day reports the dodgers are interested in blanton. if you don't to talk about it don't comment it's that simple, and if enough people don't comment becuase they don't want to talk about it, guess what the conversation is over. but obviously there was enough interest in it to keep the conversation going along with santana (you even blogged aboout it) and bedard.

    i've never told a blogger what they should or shouldn't be talking about, and 99% of you do the same to me and i apprecaite it but it's annoying when 1 person comes out of the woodworks and tell me basically i'm annoying for bringing up a story i never got to talk about

    2008-02-08 08:30:18
    70.   Eric Stephen
    My dislike of the Padres rivals my dislike of the Giants because I live in San Diego so I have to feel the anti-Dodger sentiment first hand.

    One of my long time friends is also a Raider fan, and we differ on which team is our most hated. I pick the Chargers because I live here, and he picks the Broncos because he spent time just outside of Denver.

    I agree with that, but consider the source. It was a local function in San Diego, a banquet. If it was a press conference, I would see the need for condemnation, but Towers was just playing to the audience.

    2008-02-08 08:30:42
    71.   cargill06
    65 i don't mind being ignored that's peoples way of saying don't want to talk about, no harm in that i believe.
    2008-02-08 08:32:44
    72.   wireroom
    64 I am tired of everyone giving Kevin Towers so much credit for being such a "thrifty" but brilliant GM. I am not saying the Dodgers have blown the Pad's out of the water by any means of late, but the Padres won a division a few years ago with a .500 record. They never can get out of the first round of the playoffs and I think people forget that they came in 3rd place last year. I will give Towers credit for putting together mildly competitive teams that somehow find a way to beat the Dodgers.
    2008-02-08 08:35:11
    73.   Bob Timmermann
    But Matt Holliday never touched home!!!
    2008-02-08 08:36:22
    74.   Eric Stephen
    Sure, they came in 3rd in the division, but they only finished 1.5 back. Also, they had the 2nd best pythagorean record in the NL (behind the Rockies), so it's not like they had such a bad year.
    2008-02-08 08:37:02
    75.   Eric Stephen
    And Garrett Atkins got robbed of a HR!
    2008-02-08 08:42:34
    76.   Eric Stephen
    It looks like the Padres are close to signing Tony Clark.

    From the article, "If the Padres sign Clark, they could have up to five switch-hitters on their bench, which Towers considers ideal."

    Looking at their roster, for them to have five switch hitters on their bench would yield the following lineup:

    C - Barrett
    1B - Gonzalez
    2B - Iguchi
    3B - Kouzmanoff
    SS - Greene
    LF - Hairston
    CF - Edmonds
    RF - Giles

    with a bench of:
    C - Bard (S)
    1B - Clark (S)
    IF - Calix Crabbe (S) -- Rule 5 guy
    IF - Luis Rodrigues (S)
    3B/OF - Chase Headley (S)
    OF - Paul McAnulty (L) -- out of options

    2008-02-08 08:43:02
    77.   D4P
    I think it's safe to conclude that the Padres got a lot more out of their $58 million payroll than the Dodgers got out of their $108 million.

    The Dodgers's performance is all the more galling when you consider how much playing time they gave to players making virtually nothing (e.g. Kemp, Martin, Loney, Ethier, Broxton, Billingsley, etc.).

    2008-02-08 08:43:14
    78.   Jon Weisman
    69 - I think the problem yesterday was that a number of people pointed out that the Blanton rumor had no credibility, and you seemed to be ignoring them.

    Conversely, other people sometimes don't seem to read your posts carefully, either.

    When people talk past each other, that's frustrating.

    2008-02-08 08:43:33
    79.   wireroom
    73 Oh yeah, forgot about that. I guess the previous day's loss to the Brewers when they could have clinched wasn't so important.

    Something about the Padres just gets me fired up. I am grinding my teeth right now. haha.

    2008-02-08 08:46:28
    80.   cargill06
    79 so i guess you agree with me. you get more enjoyment out of beating those laid back san deigoians more than anyone?
    2008-02-08 08:47:14
    81.   cargill06
    78 fair enough.
    2008-02-08 08:47:51
    82.   wireroom
    77 I guess my point is that with the west division becoming the most competitive in baseball, Kevin Towers and the Padres will become more exposed as the just above mediocre team that they are and have been. Regardless of payroll.
    2008-02-08 08:48:17
    83.   Bob Timmermann
    There are so many people phoning in sick in my office today that I'm tempted to turn in to Rick Pitino and say, "Joe isn't going to walk through that door. Jack isn't going to walk through that door. If you're expecting anyone else to come to work, it's not going to happen."

    I think I need to paint a big black X on my office door to keep people out.

    2008-02-08 08:49:53
    84.   twerp
    OT==I'm thinking someone here who knows sports rules well (probably looking at you, Bob) will know the answer to this--

    This fall at a college football game I saw a punter who was trying to pin the other team deep catch more of the ball than he wanted, and it nearly went thru the goalposts.

    If it had, would it have been worth 3 points?
    Do accidental field goals count? Do FGs have to be place kicked? When was the last time anyone dropkicked a FG?

    Thx for answers to these most monumental OT questions here on Football Thoughts. :)

    2008-02-08 08:51:47
    85.   D4P
    Kevin Towers and the Padres will become more exposed as the just above mediocre team that they are and have been. Regardless of payroll

    Yeah, but mediocrity and payroll are not independent. A GM's performance should be largely evaluated based upon what they get for the money they spend. Towers & DePo et al. got a lot: Ned got virtually nothing.

    In fact, Ned may have got less than nothing, in that his players may have done more harm than good.

    2008-02-08 08:52:48
    86.   D4P
    Everyone's sick around here too. I had some kind of stomach flu last week, but I've over it now.
    2008-02-08 08:52:55
    87.   wireroom
    81 Yeah ever since I saved up to buy tickets to watch the Padres and Ken Caminitti (MVP that year) come and eject the Dodgers from the postseason a few years ago, I have an actual anger for that team.
    2008-02-08 08:52:56
    88.   wireroom
    81 Yeah ever since I saved up to buy tickets to watch the Padres and Ken Caminitti (MVP that year) come and eject the Dodgers from the postseason a few years ago, I have an actual anger for that team.
    2008-02-08 08:53:01
    89.   Eric Stephen
    I remember the Doug Flutie drop-kicked extra point a few years ago in what I believe was the final game of the season and also Flutie's godforsaken career.
    2008-02-08 08:53:34
    90.   cargill06
    84 i believe it would've counted if the ball touched the ground first than went through the uprights. i could be wrong though
    2008-02-08 08:54:12
    91.   cargill06
    90 i mean punter drops the ball, it hits the ground, than he punts it through the uprights.
    2008-02-08 08:55:31
    92.   underdog
    76 Lord, on paper that's not an intimidating bench. No wonder they really want Tony Clark. He'd make it a bit less weak. Calix Crabbe should be added to the all-name team, less likely he'll be added to the all-star team.
    2008-02-08 08:55:50
    93.   Eric Stephen
    If you don't recognize Caminiti's MVP, then it never happened! :) 1996 was the first of Mike Piazza's two straight MVP awards.

    Also, if you went to all 3 games of that season ending series, you can take solace in the fact that you saw the Dodgers clinch a playoff spot on Friday night, one day before the Padres did, rendering Chad Curtis's season-ending strikeout meaningless.

    2008-02-08 08:57:18
    94.   underdog
    I'm working at home today, partially to avoid a similar bug that's been spreading around the office I usually work in. Lots of hacking and dripping and moaning -- I wish people would quarantine themselves more often.
    2008-02-08 09:00:26
    95.   wireroom
    85 Well, I will say this about SD and their payroll. It isn't like they are operating in Pittsburgh or Tampa Bay.
    For his "payroll," sure Towers has done a good job as a GM, but if I were a Padre's fan, I might be asking when are you going to up the ante and play with the big boys. Making a big move sometimes is as important as making the safe move, if done right. Either ownership or Tower's is happy with the averageness that they are good at maintaining.

    In Nedco's defense, for all his mistakes, he does try and push the Dodgers over the top. I think he has learned and now has the team positioned to be good for a while. I guess I would rather live with that than be a Padres fan.

    2008-02-08 09:00:52
    96.   Marty
    It's such a beautiful day, plus it's Friday. So, I'm not surprised lots of people get "sick".
    2008-02-08 09:01:15
    97.   Bob Timmermann
    *This fall at a college football game I saw a punter who was trying to pin the other team deep catch more of the ball than he wanted, and it nearly went thru the goalposts.

    If it had, would it have been worth 3 points?
    Do accidental field goals count? Do FGs have to be place kicked? When was the last time anyone dropkicked a FG?*

    No, they can be dropkicked, but a punt is not a dropkick. A dropkick bounces on the ground before it is kicked.
    The last dropkicked field goal was probably in the 1940s in the college game, probably in the 1930s in the pro game. It's not easy to do with footballs shaped the way they are now.

    In the past, you could dropkick a field goal from anywhere on the field, but now you can only do it from behind the line of scrimmage.

    2008-02-08 09:02:02
    98.   Bob Timmermann
    No, they're really sick. I'm just hoping that this virus isn't calling my number.
    2008-02-08 09:04:04
    99.   cargill06
    95 when i told my buddy about the blanton rumor yesterday that was his response, he said i don't know if i like it but at least it's good to be a fan of a team that is always TRYING to get better.
    2008-02-08 09:04:27
    100.   wireroom
    93 Cam destroyed the Dodgers that year. But with some help, so I take solace in that.
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2008-02-08 09:04:29
    101.   wireroom
    93 Cam destroyed the Dodgers that year. But with some help, so I take solace in that.
    2008-02-08 09:05:59
    102.   Bob Timmermann
    rendering Chad Curtis's season-ending strikeout meaningless.

    Chad Curtis's career was meaningless. He is high on my list of players I disliked.

    Although he's neither on notice nor dead to me.

    2008-02-08 09:09:01
    103.   Eric Stephen
    When Chad Curtis snubbed Jim Gray during the 1999 World Series, was there really a winner -- I mean, besides the terrorists?
    2008-02-08 09:11:26
    104.   silverwidow
    99 Getting Blanton doesn't necessarily make the Dodgers better. It not only depletes depth in the system, but also puts more obstacles in front of our young pitchers. And we're talking about a guy who was terrible in 2006.
    2008-02-08 09:13:15
    105.   regfairfield
    95 This is why you can't win with a low budget and no farm system. You can't be a good team without good players, and if you don't draft them, they cost you money, way more money than a small market team can reasonably taken on. If you aren't developing your own talent and scrapping by with undervalued players, you end up with a team of medicority. Baseball is smart enough now that, very, very few players who are actually good are good bargains, and so the undervalued players end up being just guys who are average like Tadahito Iguchi signed for 1/4. In a vaccum, it's a nice little signing, but a team full of guys like that is a .500 team.

    I think the only way that a team with no budget or farm system can win is just signing a bunch of very injury prone guys for nothing and praying. To the Padres credit, they seem to be going with that this year.

    2008-02-08 09:14:06
    106.   cargill06
    104 as i said in the 99 , my buddy said he doesn't know if he likes the move, he said it was nice knowing that there is a gm that is always working to try and improve the team.
    2008-02-08 09:15:47
    107.   regfairfield
    I think the Odalis Perez comparison is very good for Blanton. Junk baller, getting by on good control (look at Odalis' strikeout to walk from when he was good). Once Blanton loses any of his stuff, he's finished.
    2008-02-08 09:17:15
    108.   wireroom
    99 The Dodgers basically did this postseason what I hoped they would. They stuck with what they had and added a key FA signing that for its value, they gave up nothing. I love Ethier, I hope he wins the job outright, so he should go out there and make it his job to be the man in left field.

    96 it is a beautiful day. I have to write a 5 page paper today for library school. I sure hope there is some kind of prize at the end because looking out my window, I wish I could be driving up to Mount Wilson or something today.

    2008-02-08 09:17:18
    109.   silverwidow
    106 My point is that you don't know if it improves the team.
    2008-02-08 09:18:52
    110.   regfairfield
    108 If it makes you feel any better, I only get to see the sun on weekends.
    2008-02-08 09:19:26
    111.   cargill06
    109 just like you don't know if andruw jones improves the team. his point was at least you know that ned is doing everything he can to put a winner on the field, you're missing the point i was trying to make entirely.
    2008-02-08 09:22:07
    112.   D4P
    Regarding the Economic Stimulus Package™

    The checks are an advance on next year's refunds, and most, if not all of the money, will be deducted from taxpayers' refunds in 12 months' time. (

    So: a president is gonna give people a bunch of money while he's still in office, and then make the next president give it back?

    2008-02-08 09:22:19
    113.   regfairfield
    111 It's way more likely that Andruw Jones improves the team. I think Blanton is better than Kuroda, but what we give up will probably be far more valuable than the slight improvement that exchange represents.
    2008-02-08 09:22:22
    114.   wireroom
    105 You just gave my thoughts on the Padres a sound reasoning that I didn't even know I knew. Or I didn't know, but now I know. Does that make sense?
    2008-02-08 09:22:47
    115.   cargill06
    112 that's bush league
    2008-02-08 09:24:36
    116.   LogikReader

    Reg, that reminds me, for all the Padres are able to do with their solid GM, how do they not have a better farm system now than they had years ago?

    I feel like Towers has been doing the same thing for almost 7 years.

    2008-02-08 09:24:52
    117.   Eric Stephen
    Towers has done a pretty good job as GM of the Padres. He took over in November 1995, and since that time in the NL West:

    SD: 4 playoff appearances, 1 World Series
    Ari: 4 playoff appearances, 1 World Series (in only 10 years)
    SF: 4 playoff appearances, 1 World Series
    LA: 3 playoff appearances
    Col: 1 playoff appearance, 1 World Series

    2008-02-08 09:25:34
    118.   cargill06
    113 you guys are missing my point entirely, i'm not trying to debate whether blanton helps the team or not(i don't want to get scolded). my point is it is nice knowing how commited the gm is to winning, it's safe to say that the pierre and schmidt signings were bad bad signings, but you can't question how much effort he is putting into trying to win.
    2008-02-08 09:26:10
    119.   Jon Weisman
    How is a no-credibility rumor about pursuing a pitcher of dubious value an indication that a GM is doing everything he can to build a winner?
    2008-02-08 09:26:29
    120.   wireroom
    110 do you work in a cave? haha, just kidding.I have to get to work. No more Dodgerthoughts for at least an hour.
    2008-02-08 09:30:02
    121.   silverwidow
    Cargill, I'm not going to get involved in circular debates. All I'm saying is that Ned going after Blaton doesn't "show a commitment to winning" or whatever you call it. It shows insecurity and a risk adverse style that will most likely cost us in the long run.
    2008-02-08 09:30:19
    122.   cargill06
    119 when the comment was made it was unknown to him that there was no credibility for the rumor. i just brought it up as a response to 95
    2008-02-08 09:30:52
    123.   Eric Stephen
    Yeah, I thought when they hired Grady Fuson he was supposed to clean up their mess of a farm system.

    Their big screw up was in 2004, when they used the 1st pick in the draft on a more signable Matt Bush, who bombed as a SS and is now a Class A pitcher out for all of 2008. The passed on Stephen Drew, Justin Verlander, and Jered Weaver because of monetary issues. But looking back, wouldn't those couple million dollars seem like chump change to have any one of those players on the team now?

    2008-02-08 09:32:03
    124.   regfairfield
    120 Does having two doors and 50 yards between me and the nearest window make it count as one?
    2008-02-08 09:32:19
    125.   D4P
    Compared to the previous GM, I think Ned's ratio of (Commitment to winning / Concern for keeping job) is much lower.

    Blocking prospects with big-name players is not 100% about winning: it's at least somewhat about trying to generate fan interest, gaining the approval of other "Baseball People", showing a willingness to spend a lot of money, and, ultimately, about trying to keep your job.

    2008-02-08 09:32:33
    126.   Jon Weisman
    118 - I think you're missing our point. Colletti could be the greatest GM on earth, but the Blanton rumor sheds no light on that whatsoever.
    2008-02-08 09:33:18
    127.   old dodger fan
    Every GM is committed to winning. The question is, "Does he know how to do it?"
    2008-02-08 09:35:11
    128.   D4P
    Every GM is committed to winning

    While that may be true, I think it's also true that there is variation among GMs with respect to the degree to which they consider winning to be the "end" or the "means".

    2008-02-08 09:44:10
    129.   cargill06
    well i 100% agree with the 2nd paragraph of 95 i guess i didn't make a very valid argument for it.
    2008-02-08 09:45:19
    130.   cargill06
    95 and i'd rather have the dodgers sign pierre to a 5 yr extension than be a padre fan.
    2008-02-08 09:47:37
    131.   cargill06
    i mean who could root for a team that looks like they're wearing dockers when they wear their tan uniforms and don't get me started in those god-awful fatigues
    2008-02-08 09:48:07
    132.   Eric Stephen
    If the Dodgers sign Pierre to a 5-year extension, I will become a Padres fan.
    2008-02-08 09:50:39
    133.   Eric Stephen
    I think the Padres should embrace the brown & mustard of the mid 1980s.

    I too dislike the camouflage uniforms.

    2008-02-08 09:51:20
    134.   Jon Weisman
    For BP subscribers: Am I reading correctly that Will Carroll thinks Matt Kemp has the worth of a $16.33 million ballplayer this season?

    2008-02-08 09:51:40
    135.   Andrew Shimmin
    The BP hates the Dodgers thing comes up over and over, and I still don't get it. We know why they think Colletti is bad at his job--the writers have been clear about the things he's done that they think are stupid. Is it really piling on to think somebody who does some stupid things will do other stupid things, too? Sabean gets the business, from everybody, for trading a hundred billion future win shares for A.J. Pierzynski. He unloaded Morris, last year, brilliantly. But Bonser/Liriano/Nathan is still the first thing anybody thinks about when they see his name. Krivski gets the business for being an idiot (even though he's been markedly less stupid, of late).

    It seems like you want the BP writers to stop thinking that signing Pierre was monumentally stupid. If the Crown Prince goes a couple more years without being a moron, and BP is still picking on him, that'll be something. But if Pierre is the Dodgers LF this year, why should they back off? If he's the LF next year, too, why should they back off, then?

    2008-02-08 09:53:48
    136.   D4P
    But if Pierre is the Dodgers LF this year, why should they back off? If he's the LF next year, too, why should they back off, then?

    Because it makes Dontrelle cry.

    2008-02-08 09:54:33
    137.   Andrew Shimmin
    134- Yeah. He's using 2007 PECOTA's 2008 MORP projection. Probably. Maybe he's got access to the 2008 PECOTA player cards, and the projection is the same.
    2008-02-08 09:55:11
    138.   CajunDodger
    This comment brings up a question that I have always had about team budgets. Even though only a GM could answer this question, I have always wondered:

    How does a team apportion money on its budget?

    There are many items that could have a very strict operating budget: Facilities maintenance, stadium operations, administrative operations, etc. Sometimes, though, a team like the Padres and even the Dodgers seem to eschew spending $5 million (Hocheaver, White) on a prospect in the draft, but have no problem spending that same money on a replacement level player (Pierre, Loaiza).

    I know that Selig has this whole slot level money thing he is pushing, but it makes me think that some teams are willing to spend loads of flashy FA money, but have pitiful scouting and drafts. Do major league teams apportion money for baseball operations as a whole (that would include scouting, player development, Minor and Major League payroll) or do they budget by department? Depending on the way each organization organizes its budget, it could explain the reluctance of teams like the Padres to spend on the draft when teams like the Royals and Diamondbacks who have a comparable Major League payrolls are willing to spend more money on draft prospects.

    2008-02-08 10:06:58
    139.   GoBears
    57 135 Good points. My bigger point in 49 , which I didn't express very well, was this. If BP writers "pile on" with some sort of "flippant insult" of Colletti, that might be a reason to dislike BP writers, and be annoyed by their beating of a dead horse. But it does not mean that they are incorrect in their analysis of his moves. "He made a dumb move and his mother dresses him funny" includes a flippant, irrelevant insult, but it doesn't mean that he didn't make a dumb move.

    So my question was, leaving their flippant style, and strong opinions about Colletti's mental acumen aside, and even leaving aside their pessimism about future moves that might or might not actually happen, have you ever disagreed with their analysis of one of his actual moves?

    And I'll borrow a bhsportsguy phrase and point out "just to be fair" that the article about the Dodgers in the 2008 Prospectus gives Little a pretty hard time too, saying that he made the least he could out of the roster that Colletti handed him, playing OFers in inverse relation to their productivity, only playing Ethier and Kemp together 26 times, etc, losing control of the clubhouse. They even worry that Torre might fall victim to the same PVL love. So they don't hang Colletti alone.

    2008-02-08 10:12:53
    140.   GoBears
    Sometimes, though, a team like the Padres and even the Dodgers seem to eschew spending $5 million (Hocheaver, White) on a prospect in the draft, but have no problem spending that same money on a replacement level player (Pierre, Loaiza).

    Yup, Penny Wise, Pound Foolish.

    2008-02-08 10:13:53
    141.   Eric Stephen
    It's even worse in the Matt Bush case because here are the signing bonuses received by the 2004 draft picks I mentioned:

    Matt Bush - $3.15m
    Jered Weaver - $4m
    Stephen Drew - $4m ($5.5m potential total including major league salaries)
    Justin Verlander - $3.12m ($5.6m potential total including major league salaries)

    So the Padres really saved less than $1m by drafting Matt Bush, and they actually paid a higher bonus than Verlander got, yet got a player regarded -- at the time -- as clearly inferior to the other three.

    2008-02-08 10:14:06
    142.   cargill06
    139 what's pvl?
    2008-02-08 10:15:54
    143.   fanerman
    regfairfield, what are you doing that prevents you from seeing the sun on a consistent basis?
    2008-02-08 10:15:55
    144.   Eric Stephen
    Proven Veteran Leader
    2008-02-08 10:18:14
    145.   fanerman
    142 It's an acronym for someone who's bad at baseball and is old.
    2008-02-08 10:19:34
    146.   bhsportsguy
    135 No, I don't think they should stop being critical of the Pierre signing, and in reading their entry on the Dodgers, they do say that right now, they give the Dodgers credit that it appears that right now the only players of consequece they have dealt was Edwin Jackson and Dionner Navarro.

    It also appears that if the writer was going to update his piece with the fact that the winter went by without dealing the kids perhaps that would soften his snarkiness.

    2008-02-08 10:19:58
    147.   regfairfield
    143 I work in the Aerospace industry.
    2008-02-08 10:20:24
    148.   GoBears
    142,144. It's used ironically. I don't know who started it, but the use of the initials is meant to mock the idea that "PVL" is a meaningful quality than can be measured or is comparable to ERA or OPS or even RBI.

    PVL is the last refuge of scoundrels and clueless GMs who want to explain why they overpaid for a lousy player whose contributions would have to be away from the field if they exist at all.

    Still, if the use of "PVL" seems snarky, that's because it is.

    2008-02-08 10:21:20
    149.   regfairfield
    146 Yeah, but when they dealt that and got nothing in return, it's not a good sign.

    Barring a Spring meltdown Ruggiano should make the Ray's 25 man this year too.

    2008-02-08 10:21:51
    150.   dsfan
    Is Ned committed to and capable of intelligent process, espeically when the pressure mounts?

    Until the answer to that question is yes, he and others like him will draw negatitive reviews from BP. In fairness to Ned and other GMs, the aptitude of the CEO/president and owner above them will factor into how the job can or will be carried out. If your boss is John Henry rather than Tom Hicks, your chances of succeeding as a GM go up quite a bit. But it's very difficult to know what role owners play in a GM's ability to do his job. My guess is that McCourts are erratic people driven largely by ego. I see no evidence that the McCourts are committed to intelligent process, or capable of it.

    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2008-02-08 10:21:56
    151.   MC Safety
    At least Burroughs hit a bunch of singles. And a homerun off Lima.
    2008-02-08 10:23:32
    152.   bhsportsguy
    I am going to look at this more closely but there has to be a reason why hundreds of picks went by before the Dodgers drafted Price, Savery and White and no one took one of their picks and threw money at them.

    I believe David Price felt that he was not ready for pro ball yet, White was a local kid going to his state school.

    Again, I am not saying that the Dodgers should not be willing to go beyond slot.

    Also, its also appearing that if Hochevar beats Kershaw to the majors, it won't be by much and it cost the Dodgers a lot less for a better player.

    2008-02-08 10:24:42
    153.   fanerman
    147 What company do you work for, if you don't mind me asking?
    2008-02-08 10:24:53
    154.   regfairfield
    152 But wouldn't you rather have Hochevar and Kershaw?
    2008-02-08 10:25:12
    155.   regfairfield
    153 The Aerospace Corporation.
    2008-02-08 10:25:14
    156.   regfairfield
    153 The Aerospace Corporation.
    2008-02-08 10:26:53
    157.   silverwidow
    154 Not possible. Detroit would've taken Kershaw if Hochevar wasn't in the draft for KC to grab #1.
    2008-02-08 10:27:32
    158.   fanerman
    155 156 Are you an engineer of some kind?
    2008-02-08 10:28:29
    159.   bhsportsguy
    157 Assuming Miller gets taken before then, yeah, I think Kershaw was going to Detroit.
    2008-02-08 10:29:47
    160.   regfairfield
    158 The software variety.
    2008-02-08 10:31:45
    161.   silverwidow
    If we had signed Hochevar, Kershaw would be a Florida Marlin right now with Cameron Maybin.
    2008-02-08 10:32:31
    162.   fanerman
    160 Nice. I shall stop pestering you with questions about your professional life now.
    2008-02-08 10:33:14
    163.   CajunDodger
    Definitely my point. It is proven that Logan White is adept at finding prospects in the first round for reasonable amounts who work out (Loney, Kershaw, Bills) and in the later rounds (Brox, Kemp, LaRoche, Martin). It would be better, though if we had those guys and White/Hocheaver.

    This kind of thinking allowed the Tigers to deal for Miggy and the D-Backs to deal for Haren without crippling their organizational depth.

    2008-02-08 10:35:18
    164.   madmac
    160 nice, how many programmers do we have in the DT community? I'm a programmer for one of the courts in California.
    2008-02-08 10:36:46
    165.   CajunDodger
    159 157
    Point taken about Hocheaver, but White sure would be nice down at High A if we could have signed him last year.
    2008-02-08 10:41:47
    166.   D4P
    Irrefutable evidence that Ned is committed to winning:

    "We didn't hire Joe Torre to finish .500," said general manager Ned Colletti.


    2008-02-08 10:50:39
    167.   Jon Weisman
    Finally, a picture of Bobby Castillo with Larry King:

    2008-02-08 10:54:17
    168.   fanerman
    163 Sure it worked out then, but it seems like the better long-term organizational philosophy is to get the 1st round picks when they're not 1st round picks. Of course, the short-term (Kershaw) benefit could massively outweigh the long-term benefit for awhile.
    2008-02-08 11:06:54
    169.   Eric Stephen
    For some reason, I have very limited recollection of Bobby Castillo on the Dodgers. I think the only thing I can remember about him was his 1986 Topps card:

    2008-02-08 11:09:39
    170.   Jon Weisman
    New post up top.
    2008-02-08 11:11:31
    171.   Bob Timmermann
    There goes my theory that Bobby Castillo and Larry King were the same person.

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