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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Letters of Transit and All That
2007-05-04 15:42
by Jon Weisman

Dennis Cozzalio had a fun post the other day at Sergio Leone and the Infield Fly Rule:

I was in the stands Tuesday night listening to the radio - it was the second game of the Dodgers/Diamondbacks series - and Hall of Fame play-by-play announcer Vin Scully decided to latch onto the compelling story of that night's opposing pitcher, Livan Hernandez, and how Hernandez dramatically defected to the U.S. from Cuba.

"This'd make a great movie," Vinnie exclaimed, and then went on to explain how the pitcher, whose desire to leave his homeland was apparently widely known, was throwing in a game in Monterey, Mexico, when he was approached by an apple-cheeked young lady with an autograph book. She extended it and Livan opened it, ready to sign.

What he discovered inside, instead of a blank page, was an open-faced note which said somewhat ominously, "El gordo quiere verte (The fat man wants to meet you)." (In the story, El Gordo turned out to be the man who facilitated Hernandez's escape from Cuba via life raft. Cue dramatic stinger.)

You could hear Vinnie getting kind of starry-eyed as he thought about the possibilities, as well as getting a trifle annoyed that the game kept interrupting his reverie. But he kept on (with both threads) and began to speculate as to who could be cast in the movie. …

* * *

Today's 4:35 p.m. game:


Retro Gameday

Comments (379)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-05-04 15:58:39
1.   Curtis Lowe
Whenever I hear that story I either picture Don Delouise or Saula(from Indiana Jones) as the fat man.
2007-05-04 15:58:53
2.   trainwreck
Woo hoo for TBS.
2007-05-04 16:01:05
3.   bhsportsguy
I was chuckling listening to that at the game too. Then again, Vin was tossing Theory of Relativity talk a few games ago.

But relax those of you who just want to hear baseball. You will get the radio stylings of Monday and Reuss during this road swing. On local TV, its Steiner and Psycho and across the country (at least for the Atlanta part of the trip), you can hear Joe Simpson and the Careys do games on the Superstation.

2007-05-04 16:04:00
4.   Branch Rickey
Since it got LAT'd, screwballing posted a link to a great summation of Eddie Murray and his career. I'd love to see him A) get more credit for what he's done as a coach (he won't ask for it, that's for sure) and B) be a little more celebrated as one of the few HOFers closely associated with the Dodger organization.
2007-05-04 16:07:13
5.   jasonungar07
Saula(from Indiana Jones) as the fat man.

That's perfect Curtis.

2007-05-04 16:10:10
6.   jasonungar07
now who plays the part of the apple-cheeked young lady with an autograph book?

And who plays Livian? I'd take a look at Cerano from Major Leauges/Palmer from 24 Dennis Haysbert

2007-05-04 16:12:20
7.   Humma Kavula
"Pride of the Marlins?"
2007-05-04 16:13:35
8.   Curtis Lowe
6 - Salma Hayek and Baby huey.
2007-05-04 16:14:36
9.   Branch Rickey
If you ever need to kill some time over a beer, imagine a movie being made about you and your coworkers, friends, group of whatever, and try casting it. Sure to spark spirited conversation.
2007-05-04 16:14:40
10.   LAT
How come I keep picturing Olmedo the Tomato as the fat man--and I don't even know if he can act.

Selma Hayak as Ms. Apple Cheeks.

2007-05-04 16:15:40
11.   Branch Rickey
In fact, try casting a movie about the Dodgers. Who plays Grady? Kent? Pierre?
2007-05-04 16:16:56
12.   LAT
8. Beat me to it. Could there be anyone other than her? (And not Penelope Cruz). Maybe JLo but I don't really see it.
2007-05-04 16:17:19
13.   Humma Kavula
Ron Jeremy as Jeff Kent.
2007-05-04 16:17:58
14.   Humma Kavula
Adrien Brody as Nomar Garciaparra.
2007-05-04 16:20:23
15.   Branch Rickey
13. Hmmm. You may be wrong for the casting business. And you may be casting the wrong kind of movie.
I see Kiefer Sutherland for Kent.
2007-05-04 16:20:24
16.   Jacob L
Owen Wilson is Derek Lowe.
2007-05-04 16:25:17
17.   underdog
16 Hah hah, perfect.

Dave Chappelle as Juan Pierre?

Adrian Grenier as Andre Ethier?

And (a little more obscure) Domenick Lombardozzi (Herc on The Wire) as Russell Martin.

2007-05-04 16:25:55
18.   Humma Kavula
This conversation reminds me of a game we used to play -- "Worst remake ever." You had to cast/hire a director for a remake that would end up being the worst remake ever... but the key was that it couldn't be outrageous -- no fair to say "Yentl starring Miss Piggy." It had to be realistic, just terrible.

I think one that made us laugh was the remake of Jaws, starring Russell Crowe as Quint, Kevin Spacey as Sheriff Brody, Richard Dreyfuss reprising his role. Directed by M. Night Shyamalan, who plays a cameo role as the mayor of Amity Island.

2007-05-04 16:27:17
19.   Humma Kavula
15 I was casting by mustache.
2007-05-04 16:27:34
20.   Jacob L
15 - Not to mention its much easier to picture Ron Jeremy on the phone with the Tampa Bay front office.
2007-05-04 16:27:40
21.   Branch Rickey
For Pierre I was thinking more of Beetlejuice.
Wison is Lowe - sold.
2007-05-04 16:35:04
22.   Curtis Lowe
Robin Williams as grady little and Morgan Freeman as Eddie Murray with pumpkin on top of a jacket as Rick honeycutt
2007-05-04 16:35:05
23.   trainwreck
Owen Wilson's a little short to play Derek Lowe.
2007-05-04 16:36:07
24.   bhsportsguy
The Marlins scored 2 runs off Maddux in the first inning, he threw only 11 pitches for 6 batters, there is was one leadoff line drive single, he hit the first pitch, and then 5 ground balls, 2 evaded infielders for hits and the last three found gloves for outs but not soon enough to stop 2 runs from scoring.

Not sure what that means but I do think that if you throw strikes, no matter how fast they are, batters will get inpatient and swing early. Sometimes the balls will avoid being caught but perhaps this might have to be looked at more closely as the season goes on.

2007-05-04 16:37:00
25.   DXMachina
I was thinking Gonzo the Great (the Muppet, not the ballplayer) could play Pierre.
2007-05-04 16:38:06
26.   bhsportsguy
I would have to believe this will be her first trip to the beautiful city of Lynwood.

2007-05-04 16:40:17
27.   jasonungar07
I love the Wire. Great choice for Martin..

That little guy from Austin Powers, the son..whats his name..Seth Green as Randy Wolf.

2007-05-04 16:40:32
28.   Branch Rickey
25. Oh come on.
how can this not win?
2007-05-04 16:40:59
29.   trainwreck
Can we call weak grounders to second Pierres?
2007-05-04 16:45:15
30.   underdog
Well, that was a nice play by Gonzo (speaking of which). Very nice.
2007-05-04 16:45:15
31.   Jacob L
29 Since we no longer have use for the term "Shawngreens," I don't see why not?

BTW, I can't believe I didn't get a chuckle for 20.

2007-05-04 16:46:01
32.   underdog
I definitely could see Ron Jeremy as Ned Colletti. I don't want to see it, but I could.
2007-05-04 16:48:05
33.   underdog
Why do I have this feeling we'll be seeing Billingsley tonight?
2007-05-04 16:48:12
34.   Gen3Blue
Whooooaaa. I almost had a panic attack when I went to the DTV game listing and found the D's not there. It took the better part of a minute to realize it must be on TBS and I could get it. Usually I know in advance when I am not getting the games. It seems I have been getting a greater % of games progressively over the last 3 years. I seem to get almost all of them now. I am lucky to get DTV, which I know has this greedy arrangement with MLB Extra Innings.
However, I have found DTV vastly superior in sevice and otherwise than any cable co. I have dealt with. In some cases, it is hard to get the networks, but other than that, DTV is much better.

Great-supposedly we are resting Kent as we face a team with a better record than us and Scmoltz(I think) pitching. Sounds like a brilliant move after a day off. I hope we don't lose due to lack of offense, for that would make us look like idiots.

2007-05-04 16:49:40
35.   Underbruin
Anybody else watching the game on TBS? I'm rather liking the announcers, at least here in the early going.

Astonishingly, they noted that Pierre was struggling despite his .280 average because, and I'm paraphrasing, 'his On-base percentage is just barely over .300.' I was quite surprised to hear that from a broadcast team (also making an appearance was the concept of poor run support causing a lack of wins).

2007-05-04 16:50:11
36.   Jacob L
Assuming players need rest, is it better to rest your best on games you've got a shot at winning, or games you're likely to lose anyway?
2007-05-04 16:50:43
37.   underdog
Why does the TBS ticker keep saying the Giants-Phils game is postponed due to the death of Josh Hancock?
2007-05-04 16:52:10
38.   Jacob L
I've never heard anyone say they like the TBS broadcast team before. Is it not the usual clowns? (S. Caray, Van Wiren, Sutton, etal)
2007-05-04 16:52:27
39.   overkill94
I like Renoly Santiago as Furcal:

He's probably best known as the guy from Con Air that likes to cross-dress

2007-05-04 16:52:41
40.   Underbruin
TBS: "They'll run on Gonzo all night."

No kidding.

2007-05-04 16:52:50
41.   regfairfield
Steiner seems really subdued today.
2007-05-04 16:52:57
42.   screwballin
Spike Lee for Pierre.
2007-05-04 16:53:15
43.   Bob Timmermann
Sutton works for Washington now.

It's Chip Caray and Joe Simpson now. Van Wieren and Skip Caray are on radio.

2007-05-04 16:53:45
44.   underdog
Tomko on the road, about as reliably good as a Thomas Kincaid painting.
2007-05-04 16:54:03
45.   screwballin
John Leguizamo as Furcal.
2007-05-04 16:54:43
46.   Jon Weisman
Tomko's ERA has found its level: 4.38.
2007-05-04 16:54:57
47.   Curtis Lowe
Seems like fragile Tomko is getting squeezed.
2007-05-04 16:54:57
48.   underdog
This ump's micro-strike zone doesn't help Tomko, either.
2007-05-04 16:54:58
49.   overkill94
38 Sutton does Nationals games now, doesn't he?

I have fond memories of the TBS announcing team since I used to watch a lot of Braves games growing up.

2007-05-04 16:55:07
50.   regfairfield
Does that count as a Grabowski principle?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-05-04 16:55:24
51.   Jacob L
43 Wow. Times they are a'changin.

So unless I get their radio feed on the web, I'll never Skip Caray talk about some couple from Beaufort, SC who wrote in to say that they're big Braves fans?

2007-05-04 16:55:49
52.   overkill94
47 Let's just hope he doesn't go to the woods and dig a hole to sit in
2007-05-04 16:55:55
53.   Zak
Gary Coleman as Pierre.
2007-05-04 16:56:48
54.   screwballin
53 Right height, but not thin enough.
2007-05-04 16:57:31
55.   Underbruin
50 - What, walking Francoeur? He's actually gotten his walk rate pretty far up this season - see Mike's Baseball Rants, one of the late-April posts.
2007-05-04 16:58:17
56.   Zak
Plus Gary throws harder.
2007-05-04 16:59:20
57.   Bob Timmermann
This is the last year of Braves telecasts on TBS. Next year TBS will just do national games with Chip Caray and Tony Gwynn as the lead team.

The lords of baseball don't much care for superstations, although they have no beef with regional sports networks owned by teams such as YES and NESN.

2007-05-04 16:59:56
58.   Curtis Lowe
The pitch that made it 3-2 to McCann was an obvious strike soo stinkin obvious.
2007-05-04 17:00:48
59.   Zak
Giovannai Carrara can play the role of Brad Penny.
2007-05-04 17:01:08
60.   Jacob L
57 So, wither WGN? Will it soon be all Scrubs and no Cubs?
2007-05-04 17:02:55
61.   Branch Rickey
Bob will like this
2007-05-04 17:03:15
62.   Bob Timmermann
Catcher's interference!

Gotta go check the count!

2007-05-04 17:03:44
63.   Curtis Lowe
They're really cracking down on that this year.
2007-05-04 17:03:50
64.   Bob Timmermann
Ethier's second of the year! He's moved in to the major league lead. He could be closing in on the Dodgers alltime record.
2007-05-04 17:03:52
65.   bhsportsguy
62 Okay, what is up with that.
2007-05-04 17:04:22
66.   bhsportsguy
64 Does Russell get an assist on that play.
2007-05-04 17:04:23
67.   Jacob L
No time like the present, 'mit.
2007-05-04 17:05:00
68.   Underbruin
... Betemit. Yikes.

Really, we couldn't just take a look at LaRoche?

2007-05-04 17:05:18
69.   Jacob L
Get 'em next time, 'mit.
2007-05-04 17:05:35
70.   underdog
Ugh. That was an awful at bat. Maybe next time, 'mit.

Speaking of mitts, yeah, Andre hit ball and leather at the same time again. He's got to stop that bad habit of his.

2007-05-04 17:07:08
71.   Curtis Lowe
Does that count towards Andre's OBP?
2007-05-04 17:11:48
72.   Bob Timmermann
I don't believe CIs count toward OBP. They just sort of wash out like sacrifices.

I think a lot of that is because the stat doesn't appear in most sources, so it's hard to find out how many times it's happened.

Six more for the record Andre!

2007-05-04 17:12:33
73.   Bob Timmermann
Answering an earlier question, WGN will still show a few Cubs games nationally each year.
2007-05-04 17:13:09
74.   Jacob L
Coming in 2008 - Andre Ethier Cather's Interference National League Record Commemorative Pin #2 Night.
2007-05-04 17:13:45
75.   underdog
As long as that doesn't interfere with their Rockford Files showings, I'm cool with that.
2007-05-04 17:14:22
76.   Bob Timmermann
Rule 10.21
(f) On-base percentage, divide the sum of hits, bases on balls and times hit by pitch by the sum of at-bats, bases on balls, times hit by pitch and sacrifice flies.
Rule 10.21(f) Comment: For the purpose of computing on-base percentage, ignore instances of a batter being awarded first base on interference or obstruction.
2007-05-04 17:14:57
77.   underdog
Russell says "Catcher's interference THIS!"
2007-05-04 17:16:44
78.   Curtis Lowe
Looks out, everytime they show it.
2007-05-04 17:17:10
79.   regfairfield
That Dos Equis commercial is really effective. Most beer commercials appeal to the frat boy mentality. Suave men drink Dos Equis.
2007-05-04 17:17:21
80.   bhsportsguy
Betemit before the trade .281/.341/.432
Betemit after the trade .215/.310/.374

Short of some type of physical ailment, I don't know if you could say the Braves knew anything significant about Wilson.

2007-05-04 17:18:39
81.   natepurcell

at least Betemit isnt mentally ill like Aybar.

2007-05-04 17:19:31
82.   underdog
And he was certainly very hot for LA the first month or so they had him. Dunno what happened after that - pitchers figuring him out?
2007-05-04 17:19:53
83.   Bob Timmermann
Retrosheet is the only place I know where you can get catcher's interference totals and only back to 1957.

The Dodgers are in uncharted waters with their 3 CIs.

In 1972, Jim Brewer, who batted just twice all year, reached on catcher's interference one of the times.

2007-05-04 17:20:15
84.   underdog
Okay, this is going to be one of those painfully quick games that I won't feel bad for missing most of - back later.
2007-05-04 17:22:27
85.   Gen3Blue
Oh, the Braves new; have no doubt. The D's are still known as trade patsies, and have a bit to go to rebuild their reputation.
2007-05-04 17:22:47
86.   bhsportsguy
The Yankees got out in front 5-0, than 6-1, now it is 6-6 in the 4th inning.
2007-05-04 17:23:33
87.   overkill94
Wow, what a play by Furcal
2007-05-04 17:24:03
88.   Underbruin
Whooo, nice D by Furcal. Glad to see his defense at least is still there, even while he's not hitting so great.
2007-05-04 17:24:04
89.   bhsportsguy
85 What exactly did we lose in that deal?
2007-05-04 17:24:06
90.   Andrew Shimmin
Fookie, huh?

Psycho Delenda Est.

2007-05-04 17:25:22
91.   Underbruin
89 - A hitter with some personal issues, and a Proven Closer (TM).
2007-05-04 17:26:15
92.   natepurcell
The D's are still known as trade patsies, and have a bit to go to rebuild their reputation.

actually, there was a quote last year by gammons or something on saying teams are very hesitant when trading with the dodgers because of Logan White and the dodgers scouts and their knowledge of which dodger players to keep and which ones to move.

2007-05-04 17:28:13
93.   Underbruin
TBS announcers have a bit of an odd way to phrase things. "John Smoltz leading the Dodgers 2-0" after the bottom of the inning (e.g. when Tomko was pitching).
2007-05-04 17:28:18
94.   bhsportsguy
92 I'm getting worried about Jon Meloan, I guess they are being careful with Elbert but no word or anything on Meloan for a few days.
2007-05-04 17:28:24
95.   Curtis Lowe
The battle of the All Star Catchers is underway. One hits a cruddy pitcher the other throws out a would be base stealer.

How exciting now if only Martin could face Tomko then we'd have a clearer picture.

2007-05-04 17:28:52
96.   Bob Timmermann
I've been told that you need a different ending for "delenda".
2007-05-04 17:29:36
97.   Curtis Lowe
94 - What happened with Meloan? I haven't heard anything?
2007-05-04 17:30:40
98.   Bob Timmermann
Lyons doesn't even remember Greg McMichael's great career with the Dodgers.
2007-05-04 17:30:42
99.   natepurcell

when was the last time he pitched?

2007-05-04 17:30:51
100.   Gen3Blue
Nothing, I must admit. Maybe we haven't been so bad in trades lately. But in Ma. for the last decade I have been dealing w/ east coast fans, who when they find out I'm a D's fan say "wow, can we make a trade with you", and then snicker. I'm not sure why--these are R-sox Yanks, Mets, and some former Expo's fans. Its not rational, but there is a legend here, that the D's make bad trades.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-05-04 17:32:07
101.   Andrew Shimmin
96- I've been told the same thing. Probably repeatedly. Although, if I remember, the conjugation I used also means that Psycho is a girl, which is a charge I'm comfortable letting stand.
2007-05-04 17:32:21
102.   Gen3Blue
100 was for 89, though it perplexes me.
2007-05-04 17:33:01
103.   natepurcell

when your team trades pedro for delino and you're talking to sox and expo fans, they tend to think your team still makes bad trades.

2007-05-04 17:33:01
104.   Curtis Lowe
This is a joke. Can Nomar not take the extra base?
2007-05-04 17:33:10
105.   s choir
uh oh. Bases loaded. Inning over.
2007-05-04 17:33:13
106.   bhsportsguy
100 You trade two HOF players in a 5 year period and people will keep that in mind for a long time.
2007-05-04 17:33:36
107.   Bob Timmermann
McMichael came to the Dodgers from the Mets along with Dave Mlicki for Hideo Nomo and Brad Clontz and about six weeks later, the Dodgers shipped him back to the Mets in exchange for Brian Bohanon.
2007-05-04 17:34:24
108.   Underbruin
104 - I was in agreement with that hold, actually. The ball got to Jones right away, and he was already playing fairly shallow. Would have been close at best, and a fairly easy out at worst.
2007-05-04 17:35:51
109.   Curtis Lowe
108 - Maybe its the angle that I'm seeing the game but it looked like Nomar should have gone from 1st to third on the hit by Gonzo then from 2nd home on the hit by Martin
2007-05-04 17:37:00
110.   overkill94
Would Wilson please stop swinging over that slider
2007-05-04 17:38:13
111.   overkill94
This bases loaded hitting is truly laughable
2007-05-04 17:38:24
112.   Underbruin
109 - For some reason he kind of paused right after the hit by Gonzo, so I don't think he had a good enough jump to get around to third off a ground-ball single. Less sure about the Martin hit, but I agree that there was no real reason to jeopardize the bases-loaded no-out situation.

Though I feel a lot -less- happy about that decision now. Come ON, at least punch across ONE run.

2007-05-04 17:38:32
113.   natepurcell
we are so awesome when we load the bases.
2007-05-04 17:40:20
114.   Underbruin
2007-05-04 17:40:39
115.   Branch Rickey
2007-05-04 17:41:21
116.   natepurcell
its okay. If this is the price i have to pay for the Sport Gods giving Adrian Peterson to the Vikings, I am okay with it.
2007-05-04 17:41:25
117.   overkill94
This team's killing me. I was as big a fan of Betemit as anyone going into the year, but he doesn't even seem to be swinging hard these days and looks lackadaisical. Where's Kenny Lofton when you need him? We need the firestarter!
2007-05-04 17:41:27
118.   Jon Weisman
That's the nadir, Ralph.
2007-05-04 17:42:18
119.   underdog
I'm so glad I stuck around to watch that inning. That was futile, although Ramon hit that ball well. I think Nomar did the right thing - he thought the 1B was going to nab that ball, played it safe, and would've been gunned going home from second. Still, Betemit should lay off the breaking stuff and Andre needed to get another CI to drive in a run. Futile.

K, I'm outta here for real, for now. Buena suerte, Dodgers.

2007-05-04 17:42:21
120.   Zak
117 I think you are looking for Tyler Houston.
2007-05-04 17:42:55
121.   bhsportsguy
116 You mean I am still paying for Kevin Love going to UCLA?
2007-05-04 17:43:23
122.   overkill94
If we had Houston AND out
2007-05-04 17:44:28
123.   bojangles
Let's hear it from the "Betemit just needs more at bats" gang. Formerly the "Hee Sop Choi just needs more at bats" gang. What Betemit has earned is a trip back to triple A, and one more chance to actually learn to hit....
2007-05-04 17:44:50
124.   Curtis Lowe
Thanks for the info about Nomars baserunning, I don't have a real good angle here at work to judge the baserunning but I can tell that Wilson needs to go work somethings out. Hopefully he says he's hurt and has a rehad in the minors otherwise we have to let him be on his way.
2007-05-04 17:45:26
125.   overkill94
Graceful, Brett. Graceful.
2007-05-04 17:45:44
126.   underdog
Okay, that was a crazy play by Tomko, just had to say that... but... nice.
2007-05-04 17:45:47
127.   bhsportsguy
119 I think what happened is that Wilson was batting 8th in the lineup and he was seeing basically breaking balls that he could hit weakly or occasionally take and walk. Thus, he started to slump and then as all young players do when they feel that there is someone watching over them, he started to press.
2007-05-04 17:45:53
128.   natepurcell

essentially, yes.

2007-05-04 17:45:58
129.   Bob Timmermann
Last year, the Dodgers were 46 for 154 (.299) with the bases loaded, including five grand slams.

The Phillie were the worst last year with the bases loaded at .229 (36 for 157).

The Cubs were the best in the NL last year with the bases loaded and that must have propelled them to their worst record in the league.

2007-05-04 17:47:25
130.   Zak
Padres had the bases loaded with no outs just like the Dodgers at the same time, and got 4 runs. I guess we should have signed Mike Cameron.
2007-05-04 17:47:59
131.   Jon Weisman
123 - Here I am.

If he had options to go to AAA, that'd be great. But he doesn't. I don't think it's time to cut him.

2007-05-04 17:48:06
132.   k0b3
the dodgers offense is pitiful. I thought it would be from day 1 and it's slowly starting to manifest. The bases loaded hitting is unwatchable. Betemit can't be sent down because he has to clear waivers but I say he gets maybe through this road trip to do ANYTHING before we do something about 3rd base.
2007-05-04 17:48:11
133.   PDH5204
127 The problem with that theory is that Betemit started his slide during the last month and a week of last year.
2007-05-04 17:48:29
134.   Bob Timmermann
Coming into tonight, the Padres also had only 2 hits with the bases loaded, but they got a bases loaded triple from Cameron tonight.
2007-05-04 17:48:33
135.   Zak
129 Or that last paragraph must be based on an extremely small sample size.
2007-05-04 17:49:06
136.   bhsportsguy
128 I hope this payment ends soon.

123 He has 800 MLB plate appearances and overall, he is hitting .260 so its not as if he needs more seasoning. But now, I think it is the space above his shoulders that needs to be settled down.

2007-05-04 17:49:41
137.   Bob Timmermann
Really, I do read Zak's comments. They were just crossing paths.
2007-05-04 17:51:24
138.   Zak
I say Betemit gets at least another month or two. You can just decide to cut someone after one bad month.

Now you could try to have him sit out a whole week to refresh his mind a little bit, see things differently, think a little clearly.. have him come bat after a few games in a blow out game. There's so much more we can try before just cutting him based on a bad April.

2007-05-04 17:51:50
139.   regfairfield
123 Should we cut Furcal too? After ~70 plate appearances he had a .500 OPS as well.
2007-05-04 17:52:23
140.   Bob Timmermann
Juan Pierre just pulled out a play straight out of Japanese baseball. The old "Sacrifice with your #2 hitter and one out" gambit.
2007-05-04 17:52:48
141.   Zak
137 That's ok... my wife says that even I don't sometimes hear what I'm saying.
2007-05-04 17:53:56
142.   Gen3Blue
103 I think you have hit the heart of the matter. Its long ago so I tend to forget.
Then there was the stretch when we traded all our prospects for that Shaw and a few other episodes, but it really isn't that significant lately.
2007-05-04 17:55:08
143.   Underbruin
Re: Betemit, it doesn't bother me that he stays on the team, but it's hard to think about all of the talent hanging around in AAA. Trying LaRoche at 3rd, or moving over Nomar and letting Loney get some at bats at 1B.
2007-05-04 17:55:18
144.   Axim
The thing is, Betemit has struggled since last year. He stunk during spring training and it has carried into the regular season. I don't know what the problem is, but it's not just a month long slump. I understand maybe we shouldn't cut him, but maybe it's time to send Valdez out and give La Roche a shot. He hasn't been lighting up Vegas himself, but can he do worse than Betemit?
2007-05-04 17:55:50
145.   k0b3
i had a little faith in colletti until some of his questionable moves this offseason (pierre??? gonzo???) LA possibly has the worst baseball/basketball GM tandum in sports. Mitch Kupchak is about as bad as the dodgers hittin with bases loaded
2007-05-04 17:56:37
146.   Underbruin
143 - The grammar police should have me locked up after that 2nd sentence.

Any chance for a plea bargain?

2007-05-04 17:56:40
147.   Jon Weisman
143 - I'm not opposed to that, though I still question whether LaRoche is ready or whether he'll have a year like Beltre '98.
2007-05-04 17:57:42
148.   be2ween
Vin was really into that story!
America Ferrara (Ugly Betty) as the apple-cheeked young lady.
And if Jerry Garcia were still alive (God bless him), he would UNDOUBTEDLY BE the fat man!
The fat man rocks!!!
2007-05-04 17:58:10
149.   Gen3Blue
Sportsguy. I guess you refer to Piazza and Pedro? or am I missing someone else obvious as I could be. I think I am finding understanding!
2007-05-04 17:58:21
150.   natepurcell
I think Laroche needs to get it going before he gets called up.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-05-04 17:59:05
151.   regfairfield
144 How can you not want Betemit then suggest replacing him with a guy with a career .598 OPS? In the hugely successful year he's having now that supposedly makes him a player another team would actually waste a roster slot on, he has a .624 OPS.
2007-05-04 18:00:33
152.   bhsportsguy
149 Yep.
150 Agree, hopefully his splits from last year prove true.
2007-05-04 18:01:16
153.   Underbruin
147 - I agree, it could very well be that he's not ready. But it can be hard to wait with the obvious lack of power on the team. Hopefully the return of Kemp will help alleviate that somewhat, but it seems like it could be hard to find ABs for him.

And like some others have said, could he really do that much worse than Betemit has done so far? Maybe all 'mit needs is a bit of time off to work on his swing.

On another note, Furcal is looking spectacular defensively.

2007-05-04 18:02:40
154.   natepurcell

im not really to worried about Laroche's lack of hitting so far. He has shown the ability to hit at every level he has played at. I just think it would be a good confidence builder and better transistion for him to call him up in the middle of a hot streak so hopefully it can carry over to the bigs and he can start off his major league career on the right path.

2007-05-04 18:03:17
155.   PDH5204
136 You are falling for the great seduction. No one, repeat, no one, is an "average". Separate out his part-time stats versus his full-time stats. Then you'll see that when he became full-time he had the initial advantage of unfamiliarity but that was overcome and some adjusted. He hasn't adjusted back and so the slide downhill just keeps on going...
2007-05-04 18:03:52
156.   Gen3Blue
146 You do yourself an injustice. That is just common stuff like using a clause for a sentence. There are far worse things happening everywhere. And when we are locked in a game and playing like this(w/o Jeff Kent, my God), no one could be blamed even for taking a snort! Unless they were driving of course-nowadays.
2007-05-04 18:04:26
157.   Bob Timmermann
I believe the Mariners and Yankees will play forever tonight.
2007-05-04 18:06:02
158.   Underbruin
154 - I sometimes wonder about that, actually. Think of Kemp last year, who came up and was an absolute force out of the gate. But then he cooled off a bit and got sent back down. Might it be better to bring up players when they're hitting normally or even struggling a bit? If they're given a vote of confidence that they'll have consistent playing time for a while at least, and they begin playing better, I could see that as being more condusive to a full season of success.

Though I'm just kind of thinking out loud here, as Tomko walks the bases loaded. Sheesh.

2007-05-04 18:07:01
159.   Andrew Shimmin
I'd forgotten how much I hate the tomahawk chop.
2007-05-04 18:07:18
160.   k0b3
i have a feelin the braves will show the dodgers waht to do with the bases loaded.....
2007-05-04 18:07:41
161.   natepurcell
juan pierre needs to put sticky glue on his gloves.
2007-05-04 18:07:51
162.   overkill94
Can we start up a collection to have someone kidnap Pierre and hide him away for five years or so?
2007-05-04 18:08:01
163.   Axim
151 I didn't suggest replacing Betemit with Valdez.
2007-05-04 18:08:16
164.   k0b3
2007-05-04 18:08:27
165.   Bob Timmermann
This is going to be one grouchy night on DT.
2007-05-04 18:08:28
166.   Andrew Shimmin
Lord beer me relief.
2007-05-04 18:08:32
167.   bhsportsguy
157 Check out the Mariners line score, I don't think that can continue but its something you definitely don't see often.
2007-05-04 18:08:52
168.   JoeyP
Pitchers are going to have a mutiny on Juan Pierre.

Tomko looked like he was gonna puke after Pierre dropped that one--tho it was a tough catch.

2007-05-04 18:09:03
169.   Bob Timmermann
The Mariners need to stop scoring this inning so they can have this line to start the game:
2007-05-04 18:09:16
170.   trainwreck
I miss good defense.
2007-05-04 18:09:16
171.   Branch Rickey
160. Yeah but there's no way for us to hit it to Pierre.
2007-05-04 18:09:18
172.   caseybarker
...+ bigger glove
2007-05-04 18:09:26
173.   alexx
I love the Braves announcers. They were willing to admit that Pierre should have caught that ball, and they applauded Tomko for a nice strikeout pitch earlier.
2007-05-04 18:10:04
174.   regfairfield
163 Ah, sorry about that.
2007-05-04 18:10:33
175.   k0b3
171- lol
2007-05-04 18:11:00
176.   bhsportsguy
162 Did he walk three batters in this inning to load the bases, whenever someone has to dive for a ball you can't say he should come up with it.

Now, I said this last week and I will repeat it again, Tomko's starts have been misleading since his first start, he is not striking out guys and the Dodgers need to figure how long he stays on the club.

2007-05-04 18:11:15
177.   k0b3
i'm guessing we get shutout tonight, 1 run tomorrow, and 2 runs the last game....hopefully dodgers can STEAL one of these three
2007-05-04 18:11:46
178.   bhsportsguy
173 You can say that when you see Andruw Jones everyday.
2007-05-04 18:12:13
179.   overkill94
176 It's not like that mistimed dive was his only offense
2007-05-04 18:12:18
180.   Gen3Blue
I promiaed myself if we lost by 4 or 5 runs I would endorse resting Kent as a good move.
So I must. But a Braves announcer said Tomko did not pitch that badly, despite his walks. I disagree and think a walk is the worst thing a pitcher can do.
2007-05-04 18:12:19
181.   regfairfield
176 He had a 7.12 K/9 going into this game.
2007-05-04 18:12:21
182.   alexx
It wasn't entirely clear that he needed to dive for that ball (as the Braves announcers noted).
2007-05-04 18:12:27
183.   Bob Timmermann
Jose Lopez has no love of nice mathematical progressions.
2007-05-04 18:12:36
184.   das411
Wow has Beimel always had that slider??
2007-05-04 18:12:52
185.   alexx
178 That's true. Maybe they're a bit spoiled.
2007-05-04 18:13:03
186.   overkill94
So has Beimel become a LOOGY again with the emergence of Tsao?
2007-05-04 18:13:19
187.   alexx
I've always wondered how Andruw Jones can be so fat yet so good at center field defense.
2007-05-04 18:14:23
188.   k0b3
Moves that need to be made : Kuo called up for Tomko, Brazo called up, drop seanez, (maybe billz bak to AAA to start), drop betemit and call laroache or loney up.
2007-05-04 18:14:39
189.   natepurcell

great instincts.

2007-05-04 18:15:06
190.   Underbruin
173 - Yeah, I agree. I'm really enjoying the TBS crew. They seem to have at least a passing appreciation for things like OBP, don't play the homers too much - though just enough that the call doesn't feel completely clinical - and they have done a solid job calling the game.

In the meantime, Smoltz is throwing a heck of a game - apparently only up to 68 pitches at the moment.

2007-05-04 18:15:21
191.   overkill94
What about Abreu at 3B? Management seemed to love him in ST and he started off hot at LV, has he cooled off?
2007-05-04 18:15:22
192.   k0b3
187 - i acutually read somewhere that statistically compared to other CF's, Andruw Jones was vastly overrated
2007-05-04 18:15:58
193.   imperabo
180 "I disagree and think a walk is the worst thing a pitcher can do."

Worse than allowing a fly ball to center?

2007-05-04 18:16:39
194.   Branch Rickey
That was funny. TV camera gets a shot of Pierre sulking and Steiner just says in a sad and forlorn voice... "Juan Pierre".
2007-05-04 18:16:51
195.   regfairfield
188 As Jon said, Betemit is out of options. You drop him, he's gone forever. Do you believe that's is career is over?
2007-05-04 18:17:12
196.   natepurcell
is canuckdodger around?

jarrod parker's video is up on

Needless to say, I'm a big fan. Really fluid, easy delivery with the ball jumping out of his hand. Maybe the stigma of being a short, right handed pitcher will allow him to drop to us.

2007-05-04 18:17:59
197.   Underbruin
192 - Just making a guess, he's probably got a pretty small range relative to a lot of other players; or, at least, that's likely where the "overrated" tag could originate.
2007-05-04 18:18:10
198.   Bob Timmermann
This game is stirring up visions of "The Night of the Long Knives" in some people.
2007-05-04 18:18:15
199.   Gen3Blue
193 Perhaps you are right in this case.
2007-05-04 18:18:27
200.   alexx
192 It's possible, but he never seems to drop a ball that he can get his glove on and his arm is really good, at least.

190 Yeah the non-homerism and knowledge of OBP are key, I think.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-05-04 18:19:56
201.   Underbruin
Hey, Nate, looks like Sal Fasano just went yard for the first time this season.

The power of the 'stache?

2007-05-04 18:20:28
202.   Bob Timmermann
I think the Braves announcers have toned their homer tendencies in recent years in anticipation of going national.

It also helped that Skip Caray was exiled to radio.

2007-05-04 18:20:30
203.   k0b3
200 - overrated or not, he's a hell of a lot better than pierre lol
195 - i was all for giving betemit a chance, but he's not producing in a market that wants results. Why keep something that isn't doing ANYTHING at all... i know he's walking but he's striking out like a mad man and not hitting at all...hopefully dodgers give him maybe another few weeks then they got to make a move
2007-05-04 18:20:49
204.   JoeyP
Can the Dodgers trade Steve Lyons for Don Sutton?
2007-05-04 18:21:10
205.   Branch Rickey
195. Ya know, at this point I don't care. I don't think he's this bad but he might be. And I think the best he might be isn't worth sitting through this to find out. If we're going to be the team I think we are for the next 3-5 years, we need a really good third baseman. I don't think his upside in the near future justifies this current production sap.
2007-05-04 18:21:27
206.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think the good people of Washington want Steve Lyons.
2007-05-04 18:21:34
207.   natepurcell

the 'stache provides power for all who choose to accept it.

2007-05-04 18:22:18
208.   natepurcell
Betemit is really confused. Swinging through the slider and letting fastballs down the middle go.
2007-05-04 18:22:58
209.   k0b3
when ramon martinez is outhitting you, you got a problem
2007-05-04 18:23:04
210.   regfairfield
205 I'm not advocating a starting job for him. I really wouldn't care if LaRoche took his job tomorrow. However, doesn't he have value as a utility infielder? Wouldn't Betemit be better than bringing in a Ramon Martinez equivalent every year?
2007-05-04 18:24:25
211.   CanuckDodger
196 -- Parker is the guy I am hoping we get right now. Who do you like better, Parker or McGeary? I am really worried about the prospect of us taking McGeary. I just can't get on board with drafting a non-power arm in the top 20.
2007-05-04 18:25:03
212.   Branch Rickey
210. No. Those guys are professional utility players. That's a skill. No reason to believe Betemit possesses it.
2007-05-04 18:25:44
213.   JoeyP
He might be confused.
Or he's just not very good at being an everyday player.

205--I actually agree with you on this one. Betemit's minor league numbers are poor, he's been around a long time, and he just doenst have a great deal of upside considering his age.

2007-05-04 18:26:06
214.   regfairfield
So you would rather have Martinez or Valdez than Betemit?
2007-05-04 18:26:39
215.   Bob Timmermann
Marlins tie it up in Florida against the Padres. Willingham homering off of Linebrink to lead off the 8th.
2007-05-04 18:27:02
216.   Jon Weisman
Okay, two reminders:

1) This game isn't over.

2) It's just one game, and however much a metaphor it may be for your point of view, express your thoughts in a calm way.


2007-05-04 18:27:53
217.   Underbruin
207 - Of course, heheh.

205 - I think that's really the crux of the matter. I mean, unless it's expected that Betemit is going to end up better than the player that ends up at 3B (whether it be Abreu, LaRoche, or perhaps even just Nomar with Loney at 1st for the next couple years), it's not necessarily worth it to watch Betemit struggle in the hopes that he improves. You don't usually accept major problems from a guy who likely will end up as either a mediocre trade chip or a bench guy, if things work out as one hopes they do (e.g. success by one of the farm players).

2007-05-04 18:28:40
218.   JoeyP
If Betemit could play SS, I'd want him over Ramon.

But if you look at Ramon's career averages, and Betemit's...they really are close.

2007-05-04 18:28:44
219.   imperabo
And when you lol yourself you sound like Kendra from The Girls Next Door.
2007-05-04 18:28:54
220.   Jon Weisman
212 - I have to say, even if Betemit were benched or cut tomorrow, the idea that Betemit can't even aspire to be Wilson Valdez is really saying something.
2007-05-04 18:29:44
221.   Bob Timmermann
And the pride of Stanford, Joe Borchard, followed Willingham with a homer of his own to put the Fish up 5-4.
2007-05-04 18:30:10
222.   Branch Rickey
214. Yes. I think so. They serve a purpose on the team and they are fulfiling it. Betemit is taking a space of someone else who might fulfill the part of starting 3rd baseman. Again, I don't know that he can serve the utility role as well as they can.
2007-05-04 18:32:15
223.   Underbruin
... Anybody else notice that it appeared the Atlanta 3B coach's name is "Stinker"?

Or was I just seeing things?

220 - I think there is something to the point, though. Are we really sure Betemit can play multiple infield positions with success in the field? Even if his hitting is slightly better, it could be negated by troubles in the field.

Billingsley lucky to escape that one.

2007-05-04 18:32:27
224.   overkill94
Man, LuGo really drifted on that ball, that should have been a much easier catch
2007-05-04 18:32:28
225.   natepurcell
those first two pitching to chipper for amazing. Chad needs to do that every time.
2007-05-04 18:33:13
226.   imperabo
224 The wind was ripping. I thought he tracked it pretty well.
2007-05-04 18:33:41
227.   Branch Rickey
220- Perhaps comparing him to Valdez isn't fair. But Martinez I think is a proven utility guy who is usefull in the role he plays.

213- I think that's the 2nd time we've agreed today!

2007-05-04 18:34:29
228.   JoeyP
Yep, clearly a record ;)
2007-05-04 18:35:12
229.   Bob Timmermann
Great, I have an HDTV and they do an extreme closeup of the one animal about which I have the most extreme phobia.
2007-05-04 18:36:14
230.   CanuckDodger
What was that first pitch Billingsley made to Chipper? At 91 MPH it was too hard to be a slider, and it moved way too much to be a fastball.
2007-05-04 18:36:15
231.   alexx
Wow Kelly Johnson's OBP is around .480. Is it legit?
2007-05-04 18:36:17
232.   Underbruin
Valdez looked just as out-of-sorts as Betemit against the breaking pitch.


2007-05-04 18:37:06
233.   Underbruin
229 - Showing the managers during a Nats game, Bob?
2007-05-04 18:37:50
234.   natepurcell

its the cutter.

2007-05-04 18:37:53
235.   PDH5204
Jon, someone at TBS read your thoughts and posted the 122-1 mark to sure we all know that it's as near to game over as the game actually being over.
2007-05-04 18:38:08
236.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not afraid of Manny Acta.
2007-05-04 18:38:36
237.   PDH5204
231 Probably not, but he's the reason why they moved Betemit.
2007-05-04 18:39:15
238.   dzzrtRatt
Re: Betemit. Could this be a diagnosible mental problem? This is just such a strange fall-off. I figured, at worst, he'd be a .260 hitter with 15 home runs and good defense, holding down the spot til LaRoche is ready. But this is something else.
2007-05-04 18:39:27
239.   Bob Timmermann
Oscar Robles is pinch-hitting for Kevin Kouzmanoff.

Kouzmanoff being the German word for "Betemit"

2007-05-04 18:40:37
240.   Underbruin
236 - Bad Frank Robinson joke, sorry.
2007-05-04 18:41:03
241.   natepurcell
BJ's pyschologist needs to give Betemit a housecall.
2007-05-04 18:41:24
242.   Bob Timmermann
Padres lose, 5-4.
2007-05-04 18:43:36
243.   Marty
Being pinch hit for by Robles has to lead to suicidal thoughts.
2007-05-04 18:45:04
244.   Bob Timmermann
Kouzmanoff is batting .115 this season.
2007-05-04 18:45:41
245.   Underbruin
Man, when CBillz keeps the ball in the strike zone with his breaking pitches, he looks nearly unhittable. See the AB by Andruw Jones.

When he's missing, though, he looks an awful lot like Brett Tomko.

2007-05-04 18:46:38
246.   CanuckDodger
Billingsley didn't throw Andruw a single fastball, and totally over-matched him.
2007-05-04 18:46:41
247.   Icaros
Someone posted the numbers the other day, but when is more going to be made of Nomar's total loss of power?

His SLG% has been around .415 since last year's All-Star break. That is terrible for a first baseman, especially one who swings at everything.

It's going to be really sad if Loney is traded because management thinks we fans love Garciaparra so much.

2007-05-04 18:47:39
248.   Branch Rickey
I'm starting to think it might be time to trade some pitching for a rent-a-player third baseman. Guess we can wait 'til All Star break when someone should shake loose and Kuo, Schmidt and Brazoban will hopefully be back. We don't need A-rod. Just some near guaranteed decent production.
2007-05-04 18:48:38
249.   Bob Timmermann
So who are all these surplus third basemen?
2007-05-04 18:48:54
250.   Icaros
Again, why is the return of Brazoban something people are looking forward to?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-05-04 18:49:33
251.   regfairfield
247 At least one lady really likes him.
2007-05-04 18:50:11
252.   Branch Rickey
249- I'll leave that to all the scouts around here who pay attention to the rest of baseball. There have to be some guys out there at the end of their contracts. Everyone needs pitching!!
2007-05-04 18:51:37
253.   Icaros

It's marketing like that which scares me.

2007-05-04 18:52:01
254.   CanuckDodger
Billingsley threw two clear strikes to Thorman that were called balls. If that represents how badly the umps squeeze Billingsley, no wonder his MLB walk totals are high.
2007-05-04 18:52:29
255.   Bob Timmermann
I'm sure if Coletti called Dombrowski, Brandon Inge would be available.
2007-05-04 18:52:46
256.   regfairfield
252 The best third baseman that will be available are Mike Lowell, Russell Branyan and Tony Graffaninno
2007-05-04 18:55:04
257.   Bob Timmermann
The Red Sox likely are going to keep Lowell around as long as they are playing well.

The Dodgers and Padres don't trade with each other, so that eliminates Branyan.

Tony Graffanino is Wilson Valdez with a longer name.

2007-05-04 18:55:41
258.   overkill94
There's always Abraham Nunez!

We could take Pittsburgh's own whipping boy, Jose Castillo, off their hands. He's very Betemitesque with his low BA and decent power. Probably wouldn't take much to pry him away.

2007-05-04 18:55:56
259.   regfairfield
257 It was my way of saying that there's no worthwhile/acquirable third basemen entering free agency.
2007-05-04 18:57:03
260.   regfairfield
258 His .256/.298/.384 career line is quite scary.
2007-05-04 18:58:06
261.   Branch Rickey
For a team that can't score, we sure can put runners on base like crazy.
2007-05-04 18:58:21
262.   Bob Timmermann
I think it's time to implement the Ty Wigginton Solution.
2007-05-04 18:59:21
263.   Marty
252 I asked the same question a couple days ago and was disappointed with the answer. Let's ride Betemit awhile longer.
2007-05-04 18:59:39
264.   overkill94
262 He was once traded for Aramis Ramirez you know
2007-05-04 19:00:10
265.   trainwreck
Hey look, throwing off-speed to Saenz works.
2007-05-04 19:00:20
266.   Branch Rickey
262. Great band name.
2007-05-04 19:00:56
267.   overkill94
Where's Joe Randa when you really need him?
2007-05-04 19:03:21
268.   Underbruin
257 - I feel like Branyan's actually a possibility, even with the reluctance the two teams have with trading to each other. The Pads seem to be committed to Kouzmanoff at least for the moment.

Not that he's a great player, but again if we're talking trading middling pitching for a stopgap solution, he seems like a possibility.

2007-05-04 19:03:22
269.   Marty
Anyone seen Hot Fuzz? It starts in a half-hour at my local theater. I really liked Shaun of the Dead.
2007-05-04 19:03:26
270.   Bob Timmermann
You want to see a frustrating loss:


2007-05-04 19:05:40
271.   Underbruin
That second game... 17 baserunners, no runs? Ouch.
2007-05-04 19:08:22
272.   regfairfield
269 I really liked it. Very...British.
2007-05-04 19:11:02
273.   PDH5204
262 Why not let the DRays keep Wigginton at 3rd and give the DRays some pitching for Iwamura when he comes off the DL? Say Bills, Beimel and Seanez? If we need add in LaRoche that would be okay. Sorry, we'd need Kuo off the DL as well, and we'd need to call up some other pitcher as well.
2007-05-04 19:13:14
274.   natepurcell
Say Bills, Beimel and Seanez? If we need add in LaRoche that would be okay.

I think thats overreacting a little bit.

2007-05-04 19:13:38
275.   Bob Timmermann
I believe the DRays would like to win games, so they would play Iwamura over Wigginton.
2007-05-04 19:14:53
276.   Branch Rickey
Just going back to our earlier discussion...

>>>"Before the game, the team banned alcohol in the clubhouse in what La Russa termed a largely symbolic move. The Cardinals were also considering banning alcohol on the road.
"It's meaningful," La Russa said. "But it's not a significant factor in our clubhouse because our guys don't stay in the clubhouse to drink.<<<

2007-05-04 19:16:00
277.   natepurcell

the drays would be all over that trade.

2007-05-04 19:21:26
278.   PDH5204
275 But their pen is wretched [I have Reyes closing for 6 of my 7 fantasy teams, and he'd have 3-4 more saves without the DRays pen losing multiple run leads late]. And they need someone to go with Shields. He's seem to have gotten beyond the initial butterlies and his last 2 starts have been tremendous. So the argument would run that you have one young stud, how about another in Bills? Beimel gives them the set up guy that they don't have. And Seanez can pitch the 7th for them. LaRoche would hope to their third baseman, with Wigginton going to 1st and Upton playing 2nd.

274 Why? You have to give up talent to get talent? Some here already want to toss Seanez, so what loss there? Tonight shows that Beimel will only be the pre-Broxton pitcher when the lefties are up, otherwise it's Tsao. Right now, Bills is only long relief and if one of the young studs that some here post on can be ready next year, then the loss of Bills won't hurt all that much. And Iwamura is a, was, did, and is still doing it, while LaRoche is a never has and so remains entirely unproven.

2007-05-04 19:23:03
279.   Underbruin
277 - I agree. That's an awful lot to throw at a team for a guy who projects to OPS a little under .800 ( -- see the 'average' all the way at the bottom).
2007-05-04 19:24:03
280.   overkill94
Iwamura has 56 major league at-bats and was playing over his head before he got hurt. I would seriously stop being a Dodgers fan if that trade went down.
2007-05-04 19:26:52
281.   Indiana Jon
If management considered giving Bills OR Laroche for Iwamura, they should be hospitalized permanently.
2007-05-04 19:28:48
282.   regfairfield
274 Trading arguably two of the three best young players in a hugely productive farm system for an injured guy that won't be much better than Tad Iguchi, is a pretty nice trade up.
2007-05-04 19:29:18
283.   LAT
Wow. Quite a pitching match-up in NYY tonight. . . Not
2007-05-04 19:30:16
284.   Jonny6
How closely does MLB scrutinize the situation when a player goes on the DL? I know that in the NBA with their frequent manipulations of the 10-12 players that guys are commonly placed on the DL for a mythical hangnail or a muscle strain that everyone knows is a ruse.

Would it be such a stretch to place Betemit on the DL and then let him rehab in AAA in a couple of weeks? He seems so lost at the plate right now that a couple of weeks off could only help his chances of improving. Also, as poorly as he is doing would it be that much of a surprise to find out that he has a legitimate muscle pull or bone chip or similar indescript ailment? It's more likely a mental block than a physical problem but I really can't see the Dodgers having much more patience with Betemit at this point. The only thing preventing a move is the desire to avoid losing him entirely if he gets claimed on waivers.

2007-05-04 19:30:53
285.   PDH5204
280 I see that you don't follow the Yakult Swallows. I was looking for 83 runs, 15 homers, 80 RBIs, and 20 SBs. That's do-able for Iwamura. Please see:

On the positive side, I am otherwise hoping that we signed Pierre for 5 years since that's about how long it will be until Norichika Aoki will be available.

2007-05-04 19:34:40
286.   PDH5204
Oh, as for playing over his head, well, when the world was watching [from Wikipedia]:

"Iwamura played for Japan in the 2006 World Baseball Classic and hit .389/.429/.500 for the championship-winning team while splitting third base with Toshiaki Imae. With the '06 season winding down, Iwamura is again in position to be approximately the 5th-best hitter in the CL with a .312/.388/.552 line through October 10, 32 homers and 124 Ks."

2007-05-04 19:40:25
287.   Underbruin
285 - Again, please see - Even a pretty positive projection for this season suggests an OPS of around .825 - there's no way a 28-year old 3B who's going to hit 15-20 HRs and get on base at about a .355 clip is worth both LaRoche and Billingsley, or even one of them.
2007-05-04 19:41:53
288.   LAT
How does Bill Bavasi still have a job.

Record: 12-11
Sexton: .153
Beltre: .255
Weaver: 18.26 ERA

2007-05-04 19:42:39
289.   MMSMikey
grady sticking with betemit reminds me tracy sticking with nomo over and over in 2004
2007-05-04 19:44:52
290.   underdog
I enjoyed coming back here to read through all the comments much more than I would have watching the second half of the game that I missed.

262 The Ty Wiggington Solution was one of my favorite Robert Ludlum novels. Gripping.

Hey if we're gonna trade with the D-Rays yet again, can't we pry a young player from them in exchange for one of our vets for a change? We'll give 'em Tomko or somebody (they wouldn't want Hendy back again, even if it's Hendy 2.0), but no more prospects to the D-Rays please. And Nunez... why would we trade for someone who is Betemit, East Coast?

Ah well, to ponder another day.

I'm happy to have a copy of the new Steve Buscemi film to watch tonight (Delirious), because there's nothing like a dose of Buscemi to cure the Blahs.

2007-05-04 19:47:28
291.   CanuckDodger
Why do the proponents of godawful trade ideas think that saying "you have to give up talent to get talent" justifies the dumb trades they want to make?
2007-05-04 19:49:06
292.   dodgerkramer1
Has anyone else considered or suggested a trade package of Billingsley/Tomko/Betemit for Adrian Beltre? Doesn't Seattle need pitching?
2007-05-04 19:53:03
293.   dodgerkramer1
...or maybe Billingsley/Hendrickson/Betemit for Beltre?

I think the Dodgers have to consider a big gamble if they have postseason visions in 2007.

We all know that LaRoche isn't the answer in the short term.

2007-05-04 19:53:17
294.   natepurcell

Beltre for Billingsley would probably save Bavasi his job.

2007-05-04 19:55:26
295.   underdog
I'll tell you who needs pitching - the Yankees. Gack, I just looked at the recap of that game today. Yikes.

I'm still loathe to give up Billingsley though. And short of A-Rod, and Eric Duncan, their equivalent to La Roche (and even farther from being ML ready), what would we reasonably get/want from them, and they from us? Hendy would definitely be an improvement over much of what they're throwing out there right now, but...

I wouldn't mind getting Beltre back, but a trade for him might have to include La Roche, I'd guess.

2007-05-04 19:56:26
296.   underdog
295 And, yeah, Billingsley, who, again, they'd be dumb to give up unless it was for someone huge.
2007-05-04 20:04:41
297.   Gen3Blue
The padres losing helps. The D-backs playing the Mets helps. The Phils are ahead of SF 2-0. That helps.
Speaking of the Mets, boy does a good hitting lead off man who is is fast helps.
Reyes just got caught stealing(barely) but he had just driven in a run making it 5-1.
I would guess his OPS is impressive for a lead-off.
2007-05-04 20:05:04
298.   PDH5204
287 I don't care about projections based on metrics that have never been subjected to anything remotely resembling what science calls per review. Here's the best statement to illustrate the point:

"Albright's translations are based on those players who have moved between MLB and Japan's NPB. Therein lies danger: by not considering those players who floundered in Double-A and Triple-A before finding traction in Japan, the sample is biased, and almost doubtless ends up making projections like these look pretty."

Is Iwamura, Matsui? And what do we make of Ichiro? I think we call the assumptions being made by BA, logical fallacy.

And we otherwise have a rather gaping hole at 3rd. We aren't trading to upgrade mediocrity to greatness, we are trading so that we might replace a zero for something a whole lot more tangible.

And weren't some here high on Zimmerman? Well, if so, from your linked BA article:

"...for now suffice it to say that these make him about equivalent to Ryan Zimmerman's 2006."

And never mind what he's actually done to date? Playing is playing, while projections untested by any meaningful peer review are just that. By the way, what was/is the projection for Okajima? From another BA article, and here's how much they don't know:

"Sully: Well given how good Boston's lineup and starting pitching should be, I think they will have the luxury of figuring out who the closer should be on the go (I see the bullpen getting the ball with a lot of 6-2 type leads). The value proposition of having Papelbon in the rotation is straightforward - better to get 200 innings out of a premium talent that 70. Between Brendan Donnelly, Pineiro, J.C. Romero, Devern Hansack, Mike Timlin, Craig Hansen and Manny Delcarmen, there is a decent chance that by mid-May or so one of these guys will have emerged. But if it is apparent that the back end of the Sox pen is costing them, I think they will move Papelbon back to Closer by June 1."

He's not even in the discussion. Of course, just like Saito, when Hideki pitched a year as a full time reliever, he had 25 saves in 62 IP with a 2.76 ERA and 70Ks. I was ridiculed and abused when I took him as a hold-guy in my fantasy draft, but some aren't ridiculing and abusing any longer. So too with Iwamura.

Lastly, the Iguchi comparison is simply absurd, as they aren't even the same type of ballplayer. But here are Tadahito's Japan numbers:

They didn't compare in Japan either.

2007-05-04 20:11:18
299.   Greg Brock
I find it fascinating that we debate what to do about the third base situation when a perfectly good third baseman is sitting on the opposite side of the diamond. What about Joe Randa? Russell Branyan? Wade Boggs? Brooks Robinson?

Just move Nomar to third. Please. It's the right answer (and I know the team doesn't want to do it, and I am beating a dead horse, and that Nomar to third, Loney to first makes way to much sense to actually be implemented, and that this rant is far too long to be a paranthetical aside, and that nobody wants to talk about this anymore, and that my begging is falling on deaf ears).

Just move the guy to third base already.

2007-05-04 20:14:57
300.   Indiana Jon
What makes everyone think that Loney is so much more ready than Laroche?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-05-04 20:16:01
301.   Greg Brock
300 A bunch of numbers.
2007-05-04 20:18:05
302.   Indiana Jon
Well I figured that, got examples? As far as I can remember, Loney has only had one great Minor League season and a few average ones. The one great one was in the PCL, a great hitters league. Laroche has been maybe inconsistent, but pretty good at every level hasn't he?
2007-05-04 20:23:30
303.   dodgerkramer1
Greg Brock has a good point (even if he DID throw the ball back to the pitcher funny). Nomar to 3rd/Loney to 1st probably would be the best move. But let's not forget that Nomar probably has transformed himself into one of the top five defensive 1st basemen in the majors.

Can you imagine how mad Loney has to be right now?

2007-05-04 20:23:58
304.   Greg Brock
302 Loney is ready. The guy hit a ton with limited time last year, hit a ton in spring training, and has maxed out his minor league experience. .388 in the minors last year, .900 OPS with the big club last year, monster spring.

I should probably give more evidence, but I'm really tired. Even the front office has said that the kid has maxed out in the minors, but that there isn't a job for him on the big club right now.

I like LaRoche. A lot. I would love to trade Nomar, and play LaRoche at third, Loney at first, but that's not going to happen. The next best scenario, for me, is moving Nomar to the hot corner and calling Loney up to the Dodgers.

2007-05-04 20:25:18
305.   Greg Brock
Can you imagine how mad Loney has to be right now?

We don't have to imagine it, Kramer...We know. The kid is a bitter, bitter seed. And he should be.

2007-05-04 20:28:43
306.   dodgerkramer1
305: Wow, Greg, you're really into this youth movement thing, eh? I don't begrudge you for that. But let's let Nomar get injured before we start wishing he was gone.
2007-05-04 20:30:52
307.   dodgerkramer1
You know what upsets me more than the Betemit situation? The thought of having Pierre in CF for the next 4 years.
2007-05-04 20:32:00
308.   dodgerkramer1
It's stunning to me just how bad Pierre is in CF. Would he be better in LF?
2007-05-04 20:32:35
309.   Greg Brock
306 It's not like I'm trying to kick an elite player out the door. Whatever Nomar is, he isn't what people like to think he is.

We're not talking about two-time batting champ Nomar. Or A-Rod/Jeter/Nomar guy here. That train has sailed. He's a fan favorite (for a very obvious reason) who isn't particularly outstanding anymore.

It's not really a youth movement thing. It's a "getting equal production for 5% of the cost" thing. Playing kids with equal production, for less money, would allow us to sign a bona fide monster hitter one of these years.

2007-05-04 20:35:08
310.   Vaudeville Villain

No thank you on this deal.

Greg Brock has the correct answer.

Or, we could fool the Reds GM, what with his bullpen fetish, with a Beimel for Edwin Encarnacion trade or something. They seem to really undervalue Encarnacion over there. I think there's been talk of playing Rayn Freel over him.

2007-05-04 20:36:09
311.   Bob Timmermann
Edwin Encarnacion is very good at reaching base on catcher's interference. Combined with Ethier's knack for it, the Dodgers would have a new stealth weapon that would obviate the lack of power.
2007-05-04 20:37:42
312.   oldfan60
I am OK with Wiggington, but NOT at a ridiculous price. Find a team with aspirations who needs pitching. Send them Tomko. Stultz, Hamulack, Alexander are also available. Get them to send a prospect to the Rays and we get Wiggington.
The only prospect I am willing to give up at this point is DeWitt.
2007-05-04 20:39:01
313.   Greg Brock
Bob, I just read your piece over at The Griddle. I really enjoyed it. I probably should have posted over there, but I am in maximum laziness mode, and hopefully some DT posters will read this and head over there to read the essay. I thought it was great.
2007-05-04 20:40:41
314.   Bob Timmermann
You must really like catcher's interference or Fergie Jenkins or old guys hitting home runs. ;-)

I honored my dad (who was also born the same day as Audrey Hepburn) by eating dinner at his favorite restaurant: KFC.

Fortunately, I'm on statins now.

2007-05-04 20:41:10
315.   Andrew Shimmin
311- Not to get all D4P on you, but how does that second sentence not rate an exclamation point?
2007-05-04 20:41:10
316.   PDH5204
299 I was operating on the assumption that if we were planning on making that sensible move, that we would have done so already [at least tried it once, if even only putting Nomar at 3rd with Saenz at 1st]. The Lieberthal taking grounders at third report did nothing to dispel my initial suspicion in this regard. But you are right, however, our team management just doesn't seem to see it. But they are right in another regard, as Juan Pierre does get a lot of hits.
2007-05-04 20:41:49
317.   Bob Timmermann
I would also like to point out that I brought up Ty Wigginton's name as a joke.

Ty Wigginton is a poor man's Tyler Houston.

2007-05-04 20:44:30
318.   Vaudeville Villain

His parent must have anticipated that people would say that. They didn't even bother giving him the full "Tyler".

2007-05-04 20:48:32
319.   Greg Brock
Tyler Houston should be the poor man's somebody. Nobody should be a poor man's Tyler Houston.

That's like being the poor man's Scott Baio.

2007-05-04 20:50:43
320.   Greg Brock
Those creepy Orville Redenbacher CGI zombie advertisements are back.
2007-05-04 20:50:45
321.   PDH5204
Have you seen Encarnacion numbers this year? Nothing to write home to mom about, and barely better than Betemit.

Re Wigginton, why on earth? His OBP is now .276.

2007-05-04 20:51:57
322.   PDH5204
317 Sorry, Bob, but that Pierre "I'd catch better with large net" miss has removed all humor from tonight, and so I didn't catch the joke.
2007-05-04 20:56:13
323.   Bob Timmermann
But the Ty Wigginton Solution does indeed have a Robert Ludlum feel to it as mentioned earlier.
2007-05-04 20:57:32
324.   LAT
Umpires just gave D'Backs a 2 run HR that they didn't earn. Endie Chavez went up and brought the ball back in the park and the ump called an HR which on replay was clearly wrong.
2007-05-04 20:59:01
325.   caseybarker
That's Man Show HOF'er Scott Baio.
2007-05-04 21:02:39
326.   Greg Brock
I had a job interview today. I killed the interview...I mean absolutey destroyed it. The principal wants to hire me, but may not be able to, because two other teachers in the district have first priority. They have more experience, and are employees of the district, which I am not. In-house candidates get first priority.

I've never been in a situation where somebody has offered you the job, but can't offer you the job. It's pretty unreal.

2007-05-04 21:03:25
327.   LAT
Julio Franco just swiped a base. I assume that makes him the oldest player to steal a base. BTW he also had an HR earlier tonight off Randy Johnson.
2007-05-04 21:04:27
328.   Andrew Shimmin
Did the principal give you the names of the teachers? There's always the Bribed Hobo Solution.
2007-05-04 21:04:49
329.   Bob Timmermann
That's happened to me. It's sort of how I ended up in my current job.
2007-05-04 21:06:00
330.   Marty
Greg, was that a So Cal job??
2007-05-04 21:07:51
331.   Greg Brock
328 Ha. This is reason 5,800 why I just need to quit teaching, bulk up, and become a professional kickboxer. There might not be a more euphemism'd world than education.

I don't really even care about the job. I just hate the fact that somebody else may get it because they're a district employee. Boss Tweed approves.

2007-05-04 21:10:26
332.   LAT
There might not be a more euphemism'd world than education.


2007-05-04 21:11:09
333.   Greg Brock
330 It's in Bakersfield. Which, I know people like to make jokes about...But it's a nice town. It's where I got my credential. It's hotter than Hades in Summer, but hell, I'll be back home in Torrance this Summer anyway.

The other upside is that it's a job teaching AP. Volunteering to teach AP, and doing a good job, looks great on the resume of a young teacher. So I'd like the job, if only for a year or two.

2007-05-04 21:12:16
334.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Arlie Latham is the oldest player to steal a base. He's credited with one at age 49. Franco is "just" 48.
2007-05-04 21:14:36
335.   Marty
What's AP?
2007-05-04 21:15:11
336.   LAT
Did Arlie hit a HR at 49 cause the D'Back announcers said this made Franco the oldest and somehow I got the feeling they were just saying it without knowing for sure.
2007-05-04 21:15:28
337.   Andrew Shimmin
Hotter than Hades is one of Bakersfield's two official seasons. The other is Fog.
2007-05-04 21:16:15
338.   LAT
Giants down 0-2, have bases juiced in the bottom of the 7th.
2007-05-04 21:17:12
339.   Greg Brock
335 Advanced Placement. Honors classes, full of over-achievers and completely smothering parents, who all want their kids to get into the Ivy League.

Which I am completely cool with. I prefer Advanced Placement. You have to do a ton more work as a teacher, but the kids are enthusiastic and hard-working. But the parents...Oh, the parents...

2007-05-04 21:19:31
340.   LAT
Giant up 3-2
2007-05-04 21:21:59
341.   LAT
I was in Vegas the last couple of days. Tickets to this weekend's fight are going for as much as $16,000. You can buy a car for that much. Or a house in Bakersfield :-)
2007-05-04 21:25:26
342.   Marty
I'm not a big boxing fan and I'm considering buying the PPV.
2007-05-04 21:29:35
343.   Greg Brock
I am a huge boxing fan. I never miss a fight, on HBO, Showtime, or PPV. I think boxing is one of the few true sports. I'm really depressed about the fall of boxing in America.

Mayweather will win, 116-112 on two cards, 115-113 on the third card. Unanimous decision for a despicable human being, who represents the very worst of the bling culture, and a man who would wash cars if he couldn't fight.

But it should be a great fight.

2007-05-04 21:30:41
344.   Bob Timmermann
Boxing is a true sport? Well I guess bear baiting is a sport too.
2007-05-04 21:30:51
345.   Marty
Don't think Oscar can over power him with the step up in weight, as I've read?
2007-05-04 21:33:51
346.   Greg Brock
344 Boxing is THE true sport. Two men, head to head in a battle of power and quickness. Like Max Kellerman says, it's the lone sport where a man can completely impose his will over his opponent. You either knock the man unconscious, or dominate him.

Plus, for anybody who's ever spent three minutes in a ring, it's the most painfully exhausting sport ever. Your hands feel like bowling balls after one round.

2007-05-04 21:35:27
347.   LAT
Marty, apparently Vegas doesnt think so. Oscar +180.
2007-05-04 21:36:50
348.   Marty
As I said, I know nothing about boxing, but I'd place a smallish bet on De Lahoya
2007-05-04 21:38:09
349.   MMSMikey

what part of torrance do you live in?

2007-05-04 21:39:57
350.   Greg Brock
If Oscar can use his size, bully Floyd into the ropes, work the body, and turn it into an inside match, Oscar has a chance. He should be stronger, and has that great left hook.

The problem is that Floyd is more talented, faster, has better movement, and can throw the jab, hook, or straight right hand from any angle. He's just a prodigy.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-05-04 21:42:22
351.   Greg Brock
349 I grew up South of Sepuvleda Blvd. and East of Crenshaw Blvd.

Southeast Torrance in the hizzy. Wilson Park representing.

2007-05-04 21:43:54
352.   MMSMikey
ah gotcha, i come from the prarie 182nd region representing the NT
2007-05-04 21:44:33
353.   D4P
Boxing is THE true sport. Two men, head to head in a battle of power and quickness

Yet, they can only use their hands, and they must stand on their feet at all times. That somewhat arbitrarily eliminates a lot of options.

2007-05-04 21:45:24
354.   Bob Timmermann
The 2-out bases empty IBB of Bonds presupposes that your pitcher won't allow the next four batters to reach base and turn the game into a rout.
2007-05-04 21:46:49
355.   Marty
I lived for a few years at basically PCH and Hawthorne.
2007-05-04 21:47:31
356.   Greg Brock
352 Oooh, North Torrance...The tough side of town. We didn't head over there too often. You guys were too close to Lawndale for our liking.

353 Again with the UFC stuff. That's just man hugging, choking, and kicking in the groin. The sweet science is so much more than that.

2007-05-04 21:48:24
357.   das411
207, did you see ?

290, oh, how we wish Abe Nunez was really an east coast version of Betemit....

2007-05-04 21:49:52
358.   Bob Timmermann
Then there's that whole getting the chance to kill someone while people look on and getting away with it.

However, I don't begrudge anyone for liking boxing. It's just not for me.

I like it more than bull fighting, which is the single most appalling thing I've ever paid money to see.

2007-05-04 21:50:31
359.   Greg Brock
355 Right by the Airport? That's like six minutes from my house!
2007-05-04 21:50:57
360.   LAT
I have moved on from the game otherwise known as "Charlie Manual mismanages another one" to watching PeeWee's Big Adventure and eating a fresh box of Grahm Crackers. Both are very under-rated.
2007-05-04 21:52:51
361.   Greg Brock
358 People die far more often in automobile racing. Not that I like auto racing...I'm just saying.

Boxing has done a great job protecting fighters in the last few years, almost to the point where fights get stopped too early. It's gotten a lot better about that.

2007-05-04 21:53:48
362.   Marty
I was one block east and one block north of hawthorne and PCH. Right next to a park, Lago Seco, I think.
2007-05-04 21:54:53
363.   Bob Timmermann
Since graham crackers were invented for the express purpose of decreasing sex drive in humans, I've always been wary of them.

One of these days we're going to find out that those 19th Century quacks were right and we're all going to be heading to Battle Creek, Michigan again.

2007-05-04 21:54:56
364.   Marty
I should add, it was a dumpy one-bedroom apt.
2007-05-04 21:55:33
365.   D4P
That's just man hugging, choking, and kicking in the groin. The sweet science is so much more than that

This just doesn't make sense. First of all, Mixed Martial Arts (not "UFC") is just that: a mix of martial arts, which includes boxing. Second, "Man hugging" is wrestling, which is as much of a "science" as boxing. Third, "Choking" is part of jiu jitsu and submission fighting, which again are sciences. Kicking in the groin is against the rules.

It doesn't matter to me one way or another whether you watch MMA, but your reasoning doesn't seem convincing. Boxing = Boxing. MMA = Boxing plus a lot of other disciplines.

2007-05-04 21:56:51
366.   LAT
Soon as Don King and Bob Arum are gone the sport will vastly improve.
2007-05-04 21:58:04
367.   Greg Brock
365 When Leroy Neiman graces UFC with his presence...When the beauty of MMA is represented by the vibrant colors of his genius brush, give me a call.

Yup, that's all I got. Just not a UFC fan.

2007-05-04 21:59:14
368.   Andrew Shimmin
358- For me, that honor goes to Girl, Interrupted.
2007-05-04 21:59:21
369.   LAT
Pee Wee filmed at the Third Street Promonade before it was trendy. Even showing the Woolowrth's that was there forever.
2007-05-04 22:02:47
370.   D4P
There is currently a 3-way tie for second place in the NL West, with three different team records.
2007-05-04 22:04:09
371.   Greg Brock
369 "Pee-Wee's Big Adventure" is one of the most underrated movies of our time. No, I'm not kidding. Tim Burton rocked the house, and Paul Reubens was at his best.

I bought this pen one hour before my bike was stolen. Why?
What's the significance?

2007-05-04 22:04:43
372.   regfairfield
North Torrance in the house here. I grew up next to Alondra Park.

I've since moved on to South-West Torrance.

2007-05-04 22:05:17
373.   Marty
Tell em Large Marge Sent you!
2007-05-04 22:07:56
374.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-05-04 22:08:02
375.   Greg Brock
There's a lotta things about me you don't know anything about, Dottie.
Things you wouldn't understand.
Things you couldn't understand.
Things you shouldn't understand.
2007-05-04 22:09:22
376.   Jon Weisman
371 - That movie isn't underrated. Pretty much everyone likes it.

As I've said before ... Joe vs. the Volcano - now that's an underrated movie.

2007-05-04 22:14:45
377.   Greg Brock
This post has been LAT'd, so nobody other than Jon will see it...I LOVED Joe vs. the Volcano. I watch it whenever it's on.

"You're coming into focus kid...Shazam!"

2007-05-04 22:24:50
378.   Jon Weisman
"Not a very nice place you have here, Joe."
2007-05-04 22:44:29
379.   dzzrtRatt
377 Me too. Shh. I even like Meg "Flibbertigibbet" Ryan in it

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