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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

14-K Gold Penny
2007-05-07 18:12
by Jon Weisman

Brad Penny in Florida: 14 strikeouts, no walks, five hits, no runs in seven innings. He lowers his ERA to 1.39, second in the major leagues. Dodgers lead in the eighth inning, 6-0. (Penny drove in two runs with a single and didn't strike out at all.)

Penny's game score: 81.

Game score is a metric devised by Bill James to show how dominating a pitcher was in any particular game. To determine a starting pitcher's game score: (1) Start with 50 points. (2) Add 1 point for each out recorded, so 3 points for every complete inning pitched. (3) Add 2 points for each inning completed after the 4th. (4) Add 1 point for each strikeout. (5) Subtract 2 points for each hit allowed. (6) Subtract 4 points for each earned run allowed. (7) Subtract 2 points for each unearned run allowed. (8) Subtract 1 point for each walk.

The top game score in the history of baseball was Kerry Wood's one-hit, no walk, 20 strikeout performance against the Astros on May 6, 1998. His game score was 105.

Penny: 50+21+6+14-10-0-0-0=81

Broadcaster Jerry Reuss said seven of the strikeouts came on pitches chased out of the zone.

Update: From Tony Jackson:

Remember the way everyone used to hammer poor Paul DePodesta for that six-man trade with the Marlins? ... Almost three years later, I think we all have to admit that from the Dodgers' standpoint, that was an outstanding trade.

The last thing I want to do is have all of us start rehashing this trade today. So much has been written about it. But I figured people would see this and want to comment about it.

The fact is, people judge trades two different ways - how likely they were to pan out at the time they happened, and how they panned out. Jackson here is going with the latter. Note the distinction.

His analysis of the trade is off the cuff, to say the least - but his main point is to say that in the end, Penny was worth it, and to praise Paul DePodesta for getting him. The latter is a shocking thing to come from the mainstream media.

I think it's safe to say that for a lot of reasons, people today still disagree about whether it was an outstanding trade. My position, in case you've forgotten, has always been that it was a worthy gamble with big upside - that I wouldn't have had the guts to make. And that was with me even underestimating the tremendous backlash it would engender. (Believe me, I expected backlash, but this thing went nuclear.)

It was an incredibly complicated trade to digest - it still is. The trade cost the Dodgers Paul LoDuca, but brought them Steve Finley's grand slam. It gave the Dodgers first-half 2006 Penny and second-half 2006 Penny. And again, that's all with the benefit of hindsight. If you're like me, you judge the merits of a trade at the time it happened.

The worst thing about the trade was how hateful some people got when they talked about it. It became something you couldn't even talk about - to this day, it's still hard for people to talk about. It was enlightening to see how emotional people could get about the Dodgers, but also very disheartening. Nothing beats a good baseball conversation - but the venom, not surprisingly, just kills it. (After all, part of the reason the organization became an "industry-wide laughing stock," as Jackson calls it, was that it gave too much credit to the unbridled, over-the-top attacks inflicted by some members of the media.) Frankly, I'd be happy never to be in a conversation about it again.

Update 2: From the Elias Sports Bureau via, Penny was the "first Dodger with a 14-strikeout, zero-walk game since Sandy Koufax's perfect game (1965)."

Comments (277)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-05-07 18:17:31
1.   underdog
{this is a macro} I know he's pitched okay as of late but every time I see Seanez come in, no matter what the score, I worry. {macro, off}
2007-05-07 18:18:46
2.   Sam in SC
now THAT is the seanez we all know and love.
2007-05-07 18:19:03
3.   Samuel

Your worries are well-founded.

2007-05-07 18:19:17
4.   JoeyP
Uggla's got a lot of power for a 2nd basemen. Great Rule V pick from the Dbacks last year.
2007-05-07 18:19:31
5.   Branch Rickey
The Dodgers are coming up on a strectch of 18 consecutive days where they can sleep at home. Should be great for everyone except those who can't stand their wives cooking.
2007-05-07 18:20:29
6.   underdog
What was I just saying?

But anyway... about Penny. This was his best performance in a long time, in my eyes - he showed great movement on his pitches, good velocity throughout. The fact that Marlins strike out a lot shouldn't change the fact that he pitched a superb game.

2007-05-07 18:23:22
7.   MMSMikey
there he is! juan for 5!
2007-05-07 18:24:54
8.   natepurcell
Nomar changed his stance on this AB.
2007-05-07 18:25:20
9.   PDH5204
4 Uggla's now hitting .232. Power might be nice, but not when it's hitting .232.
2007-05-07 18:26:48
10.   regfairfield
9 His .780 OPS is well above average for a second baseman. Getting that out of a rule five pick is amazing.
2007-05-07 18:29:42
11.   Disabled List
I remember that Kerry Wood game. I was watching it on WGN in absolute disbelief, and thinking, what a shame it was that Harry Caray (who had died that offseason) wasn't around to call it.

Hard to believe it's been nine years. Man...

2007-05-07 18:29:59
12.   D4P
Boone auditioning for Colletti
2007-05-07 18:30:57
13.   DXMachina
The previous high game score by a Dodger this season was a 76 by Tomko vs. the Rockies. The best game last year was Maddux's 82 for the Sunday night game against Jason Schmidt.
2007-05-07 18:31:13
14.   Bob Timmermann
My mother always said that if you couldn't say anything nice about Harry Caray, that I should call her up and she would give me plenty of mean things to say about him.
2007-05-07 18:34:05
15.   PDH5204
And what does OPS mean when you're hitting .232? That if you aren't hitting for power, you're not hitting at all? And so his OBP is .326. That isn't above average for 2nd, it's hideous.
2007-05-07 18:39:01
16.   regfairfield
15 That hitting for power means just as much as some other guy who slaps seven or eight extra singles.

League average OBP for a second baseman last year was .333, so he's not all that far off either. Considering most teams run useless lumps out to second base, getting some kind of power production out of the position is huge.

2007-05-07 18:41:06
17.   underdog
This chat is getting really Uggla. I'm gonna go do laundry.

Good win, D's!

2007-05-07 18:41:42
18.   das411

and yeah how about that Brad Penny??

2007-05-07 18:42:57
19.   PDH5204
Ex-Dodger news, Beltre just homered off Rivera in the 9th to give the Mariners a 3-2 lead.
2007-05-07 18:47:14
20.   underdog
(I'm guessing Bronx Banter is now even uggla-er. Don't think I'll stop by there now.)
2007-05-07 18:48:56
21.   PDH5204
16 Might I ask where you get the idea that hitting for power equates to hitting seven or eight singles? You need to look at context. A homer in the 8th with your team up by 5 isn't worth nearly as much as a scrub single to third that brings in the winning run in the bottom of the ninth. Even those who explain what slugging means and how it calculated warn of the possible deception on the premises that the calculation means that each base is equally proportionate to the one before it, which might not be true.

To bring Greg Brock into our discussion, that's the problem that I have with the numbers. What do they mean? In my considered and humble opinion, some here make too much of a single number and fail to consider context and what the number otherwise hides. Re the "average", for the critique of the same, please see:

In case that doesn't peak your curiosity, the title of the piece is:

"Part Four of The Seductions
(& Giant Sucking Sounds) of Metrics:
The Average is Not the Territory "

2007-05-07 18:48:57
22.   natepurcell notes says dodgers have moved abreu to third base full time.

I hope they dont think that is going to be abreu's long term position.

2007-05-07 18:50:09
23.   natepurcell

thats the type of argument that gets juan pierre 44 million dollars :(

2007-05-07 18:50:45
24.   Bluebleeder87
I remember that Kerry Wood game. I was watching it on WGN in absolute disbelief, and thinking, what a shame it was that Harry Caray (who had died that offseason) wasn't around to call it.

Hard to believe it's been nine years. Man...

That's the last great moment i ever shared with my Dad, i remember him looking at me & me looking at him & just knowing we were watching something great. in other words i feel you

2007-05-07 18:50:58
25.   Bob Timmermann
The Bronx Banterites are more upset over a really bad call the Yankees got in the 8th when Bloomquist was caught stealing from me to Staten Island and yet ruled safe. Johjima singled him in for the tying run.
2007-05-07 18:57:55
26.   nick
25 yeah, we're a little aggrieved, Bob--but I for one am more worried about Mo allowing a jack to a one-year wonder like Beltre--
2007-05-07 18:58:28
27.   regfairfield
21 At this point in the season, the difference between .230 and .300 is seven or eight singles.

A guy could hit a grand slam when his team is down by three in the ninth while sir slaps a lot hits a single when his team is down by 10.

Yes, a double is not worth exactly twice as much as a single, but it's a decent approximation. I'm not saying Uggla is superman, but I'd much rather have him at this point in the season than say, Ronnie Belliars (.276/.323/.345), Robbie Cano (.269/.319/.352) or Mark Ellis (.255/.324/.378). I know those aren't great examples, but second basemen are hitting uncharacterstically well right now. Once people like Aaron Hill stop slugging .530, I'll have better examples.

2007-05-07 19:00:47
28.   regfairfield
16 I wouldn't have nearly as much problem with Pierre if he were a rule V pick.
2007-05-07 19:03:00
29.   D4P
The Bronx Banterites are more upset over a really bad call the Yankees got in the 8th when Bloomquist was caught stealing from me to Staten Island and yet ruled safe

Kinda like that LaRoche play against the Braves

2007-05-07 19:04:28
30.   natepurcell
i cant believe yankees sent Kei Igawa to Single-A.
2007-05-07 19:06:51
31.   natepurcell
from Rosenthal...

Dodgers Class AAA left-hander Greg Miller, one of the game's top prospects before undergoing two shoulder operations, is again drawing raves from scouts with his 97-mph fastball and wicked slider. If Miller gains command of his slider, he can be a No. 2 starter, one scout says; if not, he can be a front-line closer.

2007-05-07 19:22:27
32.   Bob Timmermann
Bloomquist was out from me to Eugene.

LaRoche, if he was out, was out by an Angstrom.

2007-05-07 19:22:51
33.   Vishal
[30] has anyone said why he's gone all the way to A ball instead of AA or AAA?
2007-05-07 19:23:01
34.   Bob Timmermann
Tampa is where bad Yankee pitchers go to get healed by Billy Connors.
2007-05-07 19:26:31
35.   Vishal
[34] i started looking around, and saw this in an article: "Igawa will work to rectify his delivery with Nardi Contreras, the club's pitching coordinator in Tampa, Fla."
2007-05-07 19:30:27
36.   Bumsrap
As much as it is wrong to mention trade after a player demonstrates excellence but in the spirit of trading high, trade Penny.
2007-05-07 19:30:29
37.   D4P
from (you) to Eugene = So near, yet so far
2007-05-07 19:38:27
38.   Bumsrap
2007-05-07 19:41:32
39.   overkill94
Anybody else see some classic LaRussa insanity? 1st and 2nd with 2 outs in the top of the 9th in a 2-2 game, 2-1 count to Atkins, ends up asking for the intentional walk with a lefty on the mound and a lefty on deck. Of course the pitcher walks in the run and just got the hook.
2007-05-07 19:41:49
40.   Bumsrap
Has any other player hitting in the #5 spot have less than 12 RBI or is Gonzo holding his own?
2007-05-07 19:45:54
41.   overkill94
40 For hitters with at least 75 at-bats in the #5 spot, Gonzo ranks 10th, ahead of Durham, Drew, Burrell, Kearns, Estrada, Greene, and David Wright.
2007-05-07 19:46:41
42.   StolenMonkey86
forget if it was mentioned here but LaMura is now at AAA
2007-05-07 19:49:17
43.   overkill94
Or, if you want to bump it up to 100 plate appearances, he's 8th, ahead of Drew, Burrell, Kearns, and Wright
2007-05-07 19:51:03
44.   Bumsrap
Thanks overkill94
2007-05-07 19:53:55
45.   Hallux Valgus
when I saw 40, I thought, "if there is, I bet he's on my fantasy team."

Then I saw 41 and thought, "yep- Austin Kearns."

2007-05-07 19:55:04
46.   CanuckDodger
Anybody here work as a mailman? Interesting postal news up here in Canada. According to a story on the national news tonight, Canada Post now refuses to deliver any mail to a certain house in Winnipeg because -- according to the formal written notice to the home owner, which was presumably delivered by Federal Express -- a cat on the property repeatedly "growls" at Canada Post's letter carrier. It apparently doesn't matter to Canada Post that the cat is de-clawed. Now, I have to admit that the cat, named Shadow, is kind of scary looking, being black, green-eyed, and with a mean expression on its face that is presumably permanent, but a letter carrier surely can't be at risk of much in the way of physical harm, given that Shadow has no claws. Canada Post says that they are willing to "enter into negotiations" with the home, and cat, owner.
2007-05-07 19:56:52
47.   overkill94
And, as you can see by the low amount of qualifiers, the Dodgers have one of the more stable line-ups in the majors. If you go by team RBI out of the 5th spot, the Dodgers are 22nd in the majors (12th in the NL).
2007-05-07 19:57:13
48.   Improbable88
In AA news, Chin-Lung Hu is 11 for his last 14 and brought his average up to a whopping .383! While he is hardly walking at all, only 6 walks in 120 at bats, the glove and arm are dominating his league.

My thoughts were always that the Dodgers would try and get Hu ready to go for the 2009 season, possibly replacing Furcal, and not letting him linger in AAA for more than a full season.

But still, it can't feel great to see the minor league veteran get the call to AAA over you.

2007-05-07 19:57:31
49.   Sam DC
2. Hi.
2007-05-07 20:05:26
50.   Vishal
[49] i was wondering if you guys were one and the same! apparently not, eh?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-05-07 20:10:42
51.   Bob Timmermann
The USPS will refuse to deliver mail to a home if there is some reason for them to believe that their staff would be in danger. It's often had PR campaigns to get people to stop their dogs from biting.

Out in my neck of the woods, there are lots of mean dogs. People in Northeast L.A. seem to not like the idea of spay/neuter for dogs.

2007-05-07 20:15:18
52.   Uncle Miltie
While I'm impressed with Penny's performance, I'm much more excited about the news coming out of Westwood.

Drew Gordon, one of the best power forwards in the 2008 class, is apparently going to UCLA over teams like Duke, UNC, UConn, Florida, and Kentucky. Bob, this needs to go on the Griddle.

2007-05-07 20:16:28
53.   D4P
People in Northeast L.A. seem to not like the idea of spay/neuter for dogs

They also seem to not like "The Price is Right"

2007-05-07 20:17:38
54.   Bob Timmermann
When do I ever post college basketball recruiting news?
2007-05-07 20:18:27
55.   Marty
I'm really happy LaRoche has got a couple hits/rbis/HBP/plays at third under his belt. I'm really hoping he makes Betemit sit for the rest of the year. Not that I don't lioke Wilson.
2007-05-07 20:20:40
56.   Uncle Miltie
54- I thought you posted about Kevin Love...
2007-05-07 20:21:35
57.   Sam DC
No - I'm just same old derelict me.
2007-05-07 20:22:34
58.   Marty
How's the new gig Sam?
2007-05-07 20:24:57
59.   sanchez101
Is Abreu really moving to 3rd on a permanent basis? The Gurnick doesn't mention any official decision, he only says, "management apparently has decided to move talented middle infielder Tony Abreu to third base." He apparently comes to this conclusion because Abreu has played 3rd in the three games since LaRoche's promotion.

Despite the fact that I can't see why the Dodgers would move a promising young 2B to 3rd because (a) he has a good rep with the glove (b) Kent might be playing his last season and (c) LaRoche should be the 3B of the future, it seems like this is merely Gurnick's professional opinion, you know, like how Billingsley has a max-effort delivery.

2007-05-07 20:33:15
60.   Ranma
Ken Rosenthal thinks the Dodgers need power now in order to fulfill their World Series aspirations this season:

"Consider the right side of the Dodgers' infield. Second baseman Tony Abreu, batting .358 at Vegas, is blocked by Jeff Kent. The Dodgers can't move Kent to first because he would be displacing Nomar Garciaparra, who is blocking Class AAA first baseman James Loney.

Third base is even more vexing. Wilson Betemit is batting .155, and the Dodgers promoted Andy LaRoche on Sunday even though he was batting .235 at Class AAA."

2007-05-07 20:38:07
61.   D4P
The solution for general manager Ned Colletti is to package some of his young talent for a slugging outfielder or third baseman

Either that, or he could just promote said young talent and bench the geezers.

2007-05-07 20:39:15
62.   Vishal
[61] yeah, i like how benching vets isn't even considered an option. grow some cojones, people!
2007-05-07 20:44:34
63.   Bob Timmermann
I didn't even know who Drew Gordon was.
2007-05-07 20:45:33
64.   sanchez101
I can understand why Colletti wouldn't be interested in benching a bunch of veterans on a first place ballclub. Things didn't turn out too well for the last Dodger GM to do that.
2007-05-07 20:47:39
65.   D4P
It's hard to accept that Ned actually thinks:

1. Nomar is some combination of better at defense and offense than Loney.

In reality, There's seemingly no doubt that Loney is a better defensive first baseman, and I can't believe Loney couldn't have OPSed more than .687 thus far.

2. Pierre is some combination of better at defense and offense than Kemp.

No discussion necessary.

2007-05-07 20:48:37
66.   D4P
Exactly. Ned cares a lot more about job security than Depo did. The risks taken by Ned don't generally threaten his job, while the reverse was true for Depo.
2007-05-07 20:52:38
67.   trainwreck
We talked about Gordon little bit in an earlier thread Miltie.
2007-05-07 20:54:58
68.   Ranma
61 & 62
I'm totally with you guys. What's the use of having Logan White pick the cream of the crop in the draft if we're going to continue to hinder the development of our prospects in favor of mediocre veterans? Nevermind the message sent when players are promoted based on politics rather than performance. Having a young Mark Grace waste away in AAA while Colleti & Co. are fumbling with what to do to solve the 3rd base problem is sad.

I'm a big believer of building from within the organization--especially if you have a farm system stacked with young talent--but if we're not going to make the most of that asset, then we might as well trade away our young guns and bring in that coveted big-bopping veteran, which pains me to say. At least Loney and company would then be able to show what we're missing.

2007-05-07 20:55:09
69.   still bevens
66 Tony Jackson gives some praise to DePo on his newest blog entry w/r/t 'The Trade.' Also mentions that the franchise was a laughing stock once DePo got fired. Oh glory days.

I also hope that whichever poster had the quandary over whether to start Perez or Zito tonight chose wisely. Looks like the Giants are hammering the Mets right now. Why do the other teams in our division have to keep winning games?

2007-05-07 20:56:46
70.   Jon Weisman
69 - Could you guys hold off commenting on that for a minute?
2007-05-07 21:02:07
71.   Bob Timmermann
The West Coast people are all going to go off and watch "Heroes" now.
2007-05-07 21:02:28
72.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
70 - Commenting on which "that?"
2007-05-07 21:05:07
73.   still bevens
72 Im afraid if I guess I'll be violating the request. Haha.
2007-05-07 21:05:46
74.   Bob Timmermann
"Buckaroo, The White House wants to know is everything ok with the alien space craft from Planet 10 or should we just go ahead and destroy Russia?"

"Tell him yes on one and no on two."

"Which one was yes, go ahead and destroy Russia... or number 2?"

2007-05-07 21:10:55
75.   Vishal
hah, in the jackson column (not commenting about the column, i promise), he mentions a picture of brad penny's fly being open that was posted on the clubhouse wall. must be this one:

2007-05-07 21:12:45
76.   Vishal
wow, zito had a hit!!
2007-05-07 21:13:07
77.   Greg Brock
Bob's been solid with the Buckaroo Bonzai quotes lately. Good stuff.

Buckaroo, I don't know what to say. Lectroids?
Planet 10?
Nuclear extortion?
A girl named "John"?

2007-05-07 21:14:56
78.   LAT
"I love pitching here," Penny said. "The mound is huge, and it's perfect for a guy like me who likes to throw hard. My fastball was the best it has been all year."

Don't all mounds have to be the same height and diameter. If not why don't they make the mound at DS bigger. I would think all the big guys would like it. Broxton, Hendi etc.

2007-05-07 21:15:24
79.   Jon Weisman
69/70/etc. - Okay, I've written an update to this post. You can comment if you want. Or not :)
2007-05-07 21:16:36
80.   Sam DC
Marty - It's great, and thanks for asking, but consuming. The awesome might of the federal government never sleeps, it seems, which means the gerbils on the treadmill powering that awesome might must keep scurrying along at all times.

If I change my handle to Gerbil DC you'll know why.

2007-05-07 21:17:56
81.   LAT
Shawn Green killing the Dodgers agian. Committed an error that should have ended the inning. Giants scored six more runs in the extended inning.
2007-05-07 21:18:19
82.   Greg Brock
I remember driving around Redondo Beach when the trade was announced, and listening to sports radio with my pal. It was...insane.

And I loved the deal at the time, and I still do. But I never like LoDuca, and saw him for what he was...A weak attempt by Dodger fans to get over Mike Piazza.

2007-05-07 21:18:59
83.   Greg Brock
If I change my handle to Gerbil DC you'll know why.

Please don't, Sam. Please?

2007-05-07 21:20:10
84.   still bevens
I was at said game where Penny went down like he got shot with a gun. We got there late to our pavillion seats and asked our friends 'how's Penny doing?'. "He gave up a home run in the first and then collapsed on the field clutching his arm and had to get carried off the field." I think he ended up getting the loss in that game, too.
2007-05-07 21:21:05
85.   Vishal
"dukie" was arguably the most overrated dodger of the past 25 years.
2007-05-07 21:21:52
86.   D4P
I had never posted on any kind of message board/blog/etc. prior to the LoDuca trade. That trade gave birth to D4P.
2007-05-07 21:25:41
87.   Vaudeville Villain
I never was a huge Paul Lo Duca fan, and this was before my knowledge of any advanced metrics. My problem with him was the truly abominable second half numbers he put up year after year after year.
2007-05-07 21:31:00
88.   bhsportsguy
71 Yep
2007-05-07 21:32:34
89.   MMSMikey
anyone hear anything on la roche wrist and if its alright?
2007-05-07 21:34:33
90.   Bob Timmermann
If we could only go back in time ...
2007-05-07 21:35:04
91.   sanchez101
85. Russell Martin is what people though Paul LoDuca was
2007-05-07 21:36:10
92.   Greg Brock
That trade gave birth to D4P.

And now, suddenly, I'm on the fence about said trade...

2007-05-07 21:38:30
93.   Bluebleeder87
i was on the wrong side of that trade but i'm glad i was wrong, but you have to understnad that my brain was thinking of loyalty to Pauly he is the little guy that could so i guess in the end it worked out great for both.
2007-05-07 21:39:25
94.   LAT
89. LaRoche left the game in the eighth inning shortly after being hit by a pitch on the right hand. X-rays were negative.

"I'm fine," he said.

2007-05-07 21:40:04
95.   trainwreck
I remember how Harold Reynolds kept going on on how we gave the Marlins the championship.

Not so much.

2007-05-07 21:42:51
96.   D4P
I sometimes wonder what my life would have been like without that trade. Would I ever have ended up on blogs and such? If not, what would I have done instead with all the time I've ended up wasting?

At the very least, I would have avoided a very disturbing recent incident that I would very much like to have avoided.

2007-05-07 21:43:35
97.   Vaudeville Villain

Yeah, really. The hyperbole from a lot of analysts was really embarrassing.

2007-05-07 21:44:43
98.   Greg Brock
96 Oh, do tell.
2007-05-07 21:45:59
99.   Blake Sullivan
Regarding Kerry Wood's game score, I believe that the Harvey Haddix's almost perfect game has a higher score:
50 + 38 + 16 + 8 - 2 - 1 - 2 = 107
2007-05-07 21:46:03
100.   MMSMikey
94 - thanks appricate it.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-05-07 21:48:39
101.   Bob Timmermann
Think of all the Bill Plaschke columns written in the form of a screed that we could have avoided.

Instead we would have been subjected to even more columns about how much of a choker Sasha Cohen is.

Bill Plaschke's Enemies of Sport:
1) Paul DePodesta
2) Sasha Cohen
3) Hee Seop Choi

2007-05-07 21:53:31
102.   underdog
Heroes, shmeroes, I'm watching the fun Warriors-Jazz game.

D4P, be glad you had that trade to give you your short handle, instead of, say, feeling strongly about the '05 LA-FLA trade mentioned above and having to come up with an acronym that would stretch out some browser windows.

2007-05-07 21:54:30
103.   underdog
For a minute I'd forgotten Sasha Cohen was a skater and not a British comic actor.
2007-05-07 21:54:49
104.   natepurcell
D4P was very much against the trade when it happened. So much so that I wished him dead multiple times each night.
2007-05-07 21:54:53
105.   Marty
101 Brad Penny was up there too. Bill wanted to send him to Siberia.
2007-05-07 21:56:01
106.   Greg Brock
101 Don't forget Penny, either. Bill Plaschke does not like Brad Penny very much.
2007-05-07 21:57:26
107.   Greg Brock
Man, first Bob with Estes, now Marty.
2007-05-07 21:58:01
108.   Vaudeville Villain

Way to air him out.

2007-05-07 21:58:22
109.   Marty
107 What's the secret of comedy? :)
2007-05-07 21:59:00
110.   D4P
Well, since you asked...

I encountered a married couple on the ESPN Dodger board who were posting there at the time of The Trade. The female half (an attorney) was a regular, and was a well-liked and respected member of the little clique that existed. Long story short, I ended up becoming good "friends" with the male half (a police officer) of the couple, and we developed an email relationship that was very active for most of 2006. We shared very intimate and explicit details of our lives, marriages, etc. I've never spoken with anyone else the way I spoke with him.

In general, they were bright, funny, and interesting people. I don't trust "just anyone," but I had no qualms about them whatsoever. (On a side note, the male's younger sister posted on ESPN boards as well).

Last week, it was discovered (by someone else) that the male and sister posters were actually fictitious characters invented and portrayed by the female poster, who may or may not have been who she appeared to be when she posted. I don't know all the details yet, and don't know what really happened. At the very least, it appears that I conducted my private conversations not with my male friend, but with a female imposter.

We all know the rules (e.g. never post personal information on the internet with people you don't know, etc.), but I really trusted them. I'm really shaken up over it. I feel violated, I'm freaked out over the information I gave out (life experiences, not credit card numbers and such), and I lost what I thought to be a good friend.

It's all Depo's fault!

2007-05-07 21:59:37
111.   underdog
For awhile I liked Shawn Green (I mean, he put up some monster numbers for 2 yrs, and he was such a nice Jewish boy) and was upset that he'd been traded to a competitor. I also used to like LoDuca, partially because he was a good Giant killer and, hey, he was "scrappy" but he did drive me crazy by fading after each all-star break and anyway, after a little bit of time I came to see the wisdom of all those moves. (I actually thought giving up Juan Encarnacion was too much - and he did end up putting up some good numbers post-LA but nobody seemed to miss him too much.) But great young starting pitchers are hard to come by.
2007-05-07 22:00:12
112.   Bob Timmermann
Bill Plaschke turned on the Dodger game Sunday and reflexively said, "This never would have happened if Guillermo Mota was still on the team."
2007-05-07 22:02:43
113.   Jon Weisman
From the Elias Sports Bureau via, Penny was the "first Dodger with a 14-strikeout, zero-walk game since Sandy Koufax's perfect game (1965)."
2007-05-07 22:02:43
114.   Greg Brock
110 Wowzers, that's terrible. I can't imagine having that kind of trust violated like that. I'm really sorry to hear that, because it makes more and more people reluctant to foster relationships via the tubes. That really stinks.

Man, the internets is rough.

2007-05-07 22:05:53
115.   Bob Timmermann
Lo Duca batted .440 against the Giants in 2001, but was well below his career average against them in his other years for the Dodgers.
2007-05-07 22:05:57
116.   Marty
113 Hmmm... And I was around for both of them.
2007-05-07 22:10:46
117.   Bob Timmermann
Even I'm not that old.
2007-05-07 22:11:09
118.   LAT
Bob, do all mounds have to be the same diameter?
2007-05-07 22:13:36
119.   LAT
Never before have I gotten off and on a bandwagon like the Warrior's. The last week of the season I was 100% anti-Warrier. Now I'm pulling for them to continue the upsets.
2007-05-07 22:14:26
120.   LAT
This is as exciting a game as there ever was.
2007-05-07 22:15:29
121.   Vishal
[110] man, that sucks. it's also pretty much the opposite of what my internet experience has been. i've made some excellent, lasting friendships over the internet. of course, it's reinforced through chatting, meetups, phone calls, etc..., so it's not just like they're purely based on email. but, i took a trip around the country in by rail 2003 and because of a message board i post on, there were many places where i didn't have to book a room because i had a friend i could crash with. the internet is a marvelous thing. on the other hand, it's also a sinkhole for time...
2007-05-07 22:16:35
122.   Samuel

Just to piss off all my fellow band-wagoning Golden State fans here at Berkeley, I'm rooting for the Jazz in this round.

2007-05-07 22:17:33
123.   Bob Timmermann
The Official Rules "suggest" a diameter of 18' for the pitcher's mound, but the only requirement for the pitcher's mound is:

The pitcher's plate shall be 10 inches above the level of home plate. The degree of slope from a point 6 inches in front of the pitcher's plate to a point 6 feet toward home plate shall be 1 inch to 1 foot, and such degree of slope shall be uniform.

2007-05-07 22:18:21
124.   dodgerkramer1
Best thing about the 2004 Dodgers/Marlins trade: It got the obnoxious LoDuca out of our hair and cleared the way for Russell Martin to be the next great Dodger catcher. ... Is there anyone who doesn't think Martin will have a better career than LoDuca? ... I apologize if this point has already been made by someone else.

Oh yeah, there was that Finley grand slam thing, too.

2007-05-07 22:20:07
125.   Vishal
this doesn't look good for golden state.
2007-05-07 22:21:50
126.   Bob Timmermann
I need to know if the good professor Zappala roots for Utah or Golden State.

I don't see how, if you're from Southern California, you can root for the Warriors.

2007-05-07 22:22:01
127.   Vishal
[122] booo. i've hated the jazz since the malone/stockton days.
2007-05-07 22:23:19
128.   Vishal
[126] see [127]

why would anyone hate golden state? what have they ever done to deserve dislike?

2007-05-07 22:25:41
129.   Bob Timmermann
They're a Bay Area team.

Beat GS!
Beat GS!
Beat GS!

Any team associated with Rick Barry is anathema to me.

2007-05-07 22:27:59
130.   KG16
Wow, it's been a long while since I've commented here. How is everyone?

I still look at the trade as nothing more than a wash (as I think most trades are). I don't think that the team got any better than, and I doubt they would be any better now with out the trade.

But it was a lesson in general managing - if you are going to trade a fan favorite, you better follow through with a championship.

2007-05-07 22:28:05
131.   sanchez101
126. I agree completely, rooting for the Warriors would be hella lame.

124. I wonder if Plascke would hate Martin if Depodesta allowed him to 'wally pipp' Lo Duca? (I'm assuming that without the trade Depodesta keeps his job and LoDuca sticks with the team through 2005).

2007-05-07 22:28:13
132.   Greg Brock
Rick Barry is from the Bob Feller school of "In my day" and "This is how it should be, stupid" and "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!"

Charming fellow, that Rick Barry.

2007-05-07 22:28:56
133.   dodgerkramer1
From AP story: (Penny's) strikeouts were the most by a Dodgers pitcher since Chan Ho Park had 14 at Milwaukee on Aug. 29, 2000.

I attended that game at old County Stadium. As I recall, Park had a perfect game through 5 2/3 or something like that. It ended when Karros missed a grounder that they ruled a hit. Typical Karros effort on a ball that should have been handled. I'm still a big fan of the guy, though. :-)

2007-05-07 22:32:24
134.   KG16
The best reason I can come up with to root against Golden State is because they're the "Golden State" Warriors. I could accept rooting for the Oakland Warriors or the San Fransisco Warriors (I know, but I do kinda root for the 49ers). But Golden State?

Then again, they are playing the Utah Jazz, and I am genetically programed to root against the Jazz (just like I am programed to root against the Giants).

2007-05-07 22:32:36
135.   underdog
129 Boo-urns! Boo-urns!

I was rooting for GS against Dallas because I hate Dallas and really enjoy watching the Warriors play. And have friends who have been beleaguered Warriors fans for years. And the Lakers were a total embarrassment. But then I remembered how obnoxious many Warriors fans have been at games over the years (not that I can blame them for hating on the Lakers)... and I hate Rick Barry, too. But then I remembered that I traditionally hate the Jazz. But then I realized that I like the players the Jazz have right now and enjoy watching them play... And all that adds up to my being torn, slightly rooting for the Warriors, hoping for a long, good series.


2007-05-07 22:32:42
136.   dodgerkramer1
131: maybe, but McCourt had plenty of reasons to fire Depo aside from the Marlins trade. The Beltre debacle, overpaying for Drew, bringing Milton Bradley into the fray, disassembling a division winner, etc.
2007-05-07 22:32:50
137.   sanchez101
128. what next? rooting for the raiders? cal? hippies? giants?
2007-05-07 22:33:40
138.   Bob Timmermann
Park had a perfect game through 3 1/3 innings when Karros made an error. James Mouton broke up the no-hitter with a 2-run homer in the sixth.
2007-05-07 22:34:08
139.   sanchez101
The only reason to root for GS is that they made Mark Cuban cry
2007-05-07 22:34:56
140.   natepurcell
The Beltre debacle, overpaying for Drew

I guess that is where we have a difference of opinion.

2007-05-07 22:34:57
141.   Samuel

They deserve my dislike because everyone here at Berkeley has just jumped on the bandwagon. I hate bandwagons, thus I'm rooting for the Jazz. Plus, I rooted for the Jazz after they eliminated the Lakers in 97/98 only because I wanted to see somebody beat the Bulls for once.

2007-05-07 22:35:07
142.   underdog
134 Yeah, and they're the Utah... Jazz. For crying out loud, every time I hear that nickname I shudder. I mean, come on, they needed to change that nickname as soon as they left New Orleans, it's an insult on many levels. (Okay, the same argument could apply to the Lakers, but at least that doesn't have a cultural history to it.) Be the Utah Coyotes, the Utah Sundancers, the Utah Mormons, whatever, but not the Jazz. So that's another point in the Warriors favor (but yeah, Golden State, what are they, the whole state's team? They used to be the SF Warriors. Obviously that doesn't work any more, but they should be Oakland.)
2007-05-07 22:37:33
143.   LAT
123. Thanks Bob
2007-05-07 22:37:49
144.   Greg Brock
136 What was the Beltre debacle? Not paying for a one-year wonder?

Overpaying for Drew? His production was right in line with 11 million per.

We got Bradley for a prospect that has yet to pan out, and that got us Ethier.

Define "Disassembling" that Division winning team for me.

2007-05-07 22:37:54
145.   underdog
124 No, I don't think anyone here would argue that we'd be better off with Lo Duca over Martin, not a single person that I can think of. At the time Lo Duca was in LA, of course, very few of us knew of Martin - he was just a gleam in Logan White's eye. But gosh, I sure am delighted to have him now.
2007-05-07 22:37:56
146.   KG16
142 - I could accept the California Warriors, but then I grew up in the shadow of the Big A, so I was use to seeing the California Angels play. Golden State just seems cheesy.
2007-05-07 22:38:37
147.   Bob Timmermann
They used to be the Philadelphia Warriors too.

They tried one year to play in different parts of California, but gave up and settled in Oakland. Except when they were playing in San Jose.

2007-05-07 22:39:46
148.   trainwreck
Diego Corrales just died in a motorcycle accident in Vegas. Corrales is a former 4 time champ and his fight with Jose Luis Castillo a couple years ago was one of the best fights ever.


2007-05-07 22:40:06
149.   Greg Brock
I have a hard time hating the Warriors. That's like hating the Clippers or Grizzlies or Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

Step One: Be relevant
Step Two: Do something to my team
Step Three: Hatred

2007-05-07 22:40:11
150.   sanchez101
142. Maybe the Warriors could sell the name to the Angles and call themselves the San Francisco Warriors of Oakland.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-05-07 22:40:30
151.   Vishal
[137] i root for cal and the raiders, but i draw the line at hippies and giants. on the other hand, i'm also an A's fan.

besides, southern californians aren't supposed to care about the whole north/south thing. that's for northerners to obsess about. i mean, ask a san franciscan about LA and you're likely to get the bile and venom flowing pretty quickly. ask an angeleno about SF and they'll say, "oh, it's such a quaint and charming little city". the perceptions are totally different; it's a one-sided rivalry. kind of like how the LA dodgers have won 5 world championships and the SF giants have won none.

2007-05-07 22:40:58
152.   Vishal
[146] total double-standard.
2007-05-07 22:41:02
153.   natepurcell
We got Bradley for a prospect that has yet to pan out, and that got us Ethier.

who should be playing CF but....yea.

2007-05-07 22:42:30
154.   Greg Brock
148 No way. Chico Corrales was like Gatti...His fights were always amazingly entertaining, even if he wasn't a truly great fighter. Guy had power, and couldn't take a punch. That's always a recipe for excitement.
2007-05-07 22:44:26
155.   sanchez101
151. I was completely indifferent to nor cal, until I got to college and was confronted with the term, "hella."
2007-05-07 22:45:38
156.   dodgerkramer1
138: wow, good research on the fly. my memory is cloudier than I thought.

144: Why am I the only guy who thinks Beltre would have continued his success if he stayed in L.A.? ... $11 million for Drew is good value in 2007 dollars, but 2005 dollars? ... Yes, Ethier is a silver lining, but we all would have been better off w/o Bradley's antics. ... I define "disassembling" as not re-signing 2004's best hitter this side of Bonds.

2007-05-07 22:46:22
157.   trainwreck
Southern Californias always ripping on the word hella lol.
2007-05-07 22:48:12
158.   trainwreck
To hate hippies is to hate Bob Ross, and if you hate Bob Ross then you hate chipmunks and happy trees, and if you hate chipmunks and happy trees then you are not an American!
2007-05-07 22:50:40
159.   sanchez101
156."Why am I the only guy who thinks Beltre would have continued his success if he stayed in L.A.?"
- is it possible that you're wrong?
2007-05-07 22:51:09
160.   Icaros
$11 million for Drew is good value in 2007 dollars, but 2005 dollars?

Considering the fact that Shawn Green's contract with LA called for $16 million in 2005, yes.

2007-05-07 22:56:48
161.   Jon Weisman
159 - I think the question is, what is the basis for the theory? Why would Beltre only succeed in one city? Because Jim Tracy and Dodger fans have such a magic touch with hitters?
2007-05-07 22:57:07
162.   ToyCannon
The GS Warriors have my full attention and I surely hope the Jazz don't derail them. I will be extremely disapointed if the Western Finals is a matchup between Utah and San Antonio.
If Penny's game hadn't come against the Marlins I would say it was one of the greatest games of the 21st century thrown by a Dodger pitcher.
If Depo hadn't had the guts to trade LaDuca I never would have found Dodger Thoughts. It was only while looking for some common sense on the trade that I stumbled upon this site. For that I will be forever grateful.
2007-05-07 22:57:30
163.   Eric Enders
The Times' latest notes column reports Betemit's reaction to his benching:
"It's difficult to play coming off the bench. Everybody knows that. But lamentably they made the decision to use me that way and there's nothing I can do."


That reminds me of one of the all-time great Dodger quotes, by Milton Bradley after missing a fly ball in Milwaukee during the 12-0 run:

"In my initial approach to the ball, I underestimated the velocity on the Milwaukee terrain. Therefore, I was rendered defenseless to field the aforementioned ball."

2007-05-07 22:59:23
164.   Eric Enders
161 The same Dodger fans who, remember, had a noose ready and waiting for Beltre for several years prior to 2004.
2007-05-07 22:59:52
165.   Bob Timmermann
The beauty of the "Beltre would play well only if he were a Dodger" is that it is conveniently impossible to prove or disprove.
2007-05-07 23:00:47
166.   Bob Timmermann
Wilson Betemit knows the word "lamentably?"
2007-05-07 23:00:51
167.   Vishal
i agree that "hella" is hella stupid, and when i went to college i found it annoying too, but if that's the worst thing you can say about them, they're not so bad. they are our californian compatriots, after all.
2007-05-07 23:00:59
168.   Jon Weisman
162 - I thought Molokai predated that time for some reason.
2007-05-07 23:02:37
169.   JoeyP
148--Thats horrible news.
Diego Corrales was one of the most charismatic in the sport. Great boxing heart, mind, and he would have been excellent as a boxing commentator.

That sucks. Seriously.
He was one of my favorites.

2007-05-07 23:03:15
170.   Vishal
[163] that quote cemented my appreciation for milton bradley. the dude has exhibited some bad judgment, but i still root for him. i think he's a good-hearted guy who's just too sensitive for his own good.
2007-05-07 23:04:20
171.   JoeyP
I define "disassembling" as not re-signing 2004's best hitter this side of Bonds.

Beltre has had 1 great season in his entire career. Then a bunch of mediocre ones. He's not the "best" anything.

2007-05-07 23:06:00
172.   ToyCannon
Beltre has had success after his initial struggles in Seattle, but forever comparing him to his 2004 season isn't fair. He still is a great fielding 3b who will end up with more home runs(350) and rbi's(1300) then 90% of the people who have ever played 3b. Not sure why a guy who plays gold glove defense, hits 20-25 home runs, drives in 80-100 runs is someone to snicker at. We should be so lucky if La Roche can match his production.
2007-05-07 23:06:44
173.   Jon Weisman
By the way, I was in favor of retaining Beltre.
2007-05-07 23:07:13
174.   sanchez101
167. that's true. i see it as more similar to a cross-town high school rivarly, its not so much hate as it is a source of entertainment. i wouldn't advocate rooting against the warriors, and certainly not for the jazz, i'll never forgive the "jazzman" that haunted the forum in the late-90's. in true socal tradition, i only advocate ambivilance(sp?).
2007-05-07 23:09:18
175.   Vishal
[172] is he worth $64 million?

(no, you're not allowed to re-frame it in terms of "is he worth 20 million more than juan pierre")

2007-05-07 23:09:49
176.   Just Blue
At the time of the Dodgers/Marlins trade I was still on the fence about DePo, but felt that the trade was necessary if we wanted any chance of advancing in the playoffs. It was a bold move, and we got more than we gave up.

Though we gave up our starting catcher, "the heart & soul of the team", our primary set-up man, and a starting outfielder, we received a potentially great young 1st baseman, and a young, quality starting pitcher. Penny was the necessary player to carry us into the playoffs, and to anchor our rotation for the next few years, and Choi could have possibly been a star too. The injury to Penny, and Tracy's misuse of Choi were not expected at the time of the trade.

As for what we gave up, Encarnacion was not producing for us anyway, and striking out way too much. Mota's stability was missed initially, but easily replaced. The biggest void was at catcher, where David Ross seemed to whiff in 2/3 of his ab's, and forgot how to club HR's until he ended up in Cincy.

It was a tough move to make, but I admired DePo's guts, and I understood his motivation. When Penny broke down, so did our chances of advancing in the playoffs, as we just didn't have enough pitching. But, DePo was building for the future, and Penny was a good acquisition.

2007-05-07 23:10:14
177.   sanchez101
171. Beltre is better than people give him credit for - remember that he's never hit in a hitter-friendly stadium. In a neutral environment he's approx. a .275/.340/.500 hitter. Combined with superb defense, that's a good (but not great) player. The problem is that he's being paid like a great player because of the timing of his career season. I still root for the guy.
2007-05-07 23:11:21
178.   sanchez101
... and one other note, Beltre's said nothing bad about the Dodgers or LA since he left, which is more than can be said about Paulie LoDuca.
2007-05-07 23:11:59
179.   JoeyP
Not sure why a guy who plays gold glove defense, hits 20-25 home runs, drives in 80-100 runs is someone to snicker at.

RBI's are counting stats.
He doesnt have any gold gloves.
20-25 home runs arent that special in this day and age.
He makes a lot more money than he should.

Beltre was a big reason why the 2003 offense underachieved as well.

Making a distinction between results, and fan favoritism is important. Of course, I only root for laundry.

2007-05-07 23:12:51
180.   sanchez101
176. Computer Boy = guts? Bill Plascke's head just exploded.
2007-05-07 23:13:28
181.   Im So Blue
163 Does Wilson Betemit give interviews in English? Perhaps "lamentably" was translated from what he said en español.
2007-05-07 23:14:40
182.   Greg Brock
173 I, too, would have like to keep Beltre. For eight million dollars a season.

Not for what he ended up getting with Seattle.

2007-05-07 23:16:59
183.   Bob Timmermann
If a reporter is getting an interview through a translator, it's supposed to be indicated as such. A reporter who translates on his own and doesn't say what the original language was, is in trouble.
2007-05-07 23:18:44
184.   Jon Weisman
Why couldn't Betemit have said "lamentably?"

I barely retain any use of the French I once kinda sort of learned, malheureusement, but it's not as if I don't know any adverbs.

2007-05-07 23:20:34
185.   Greg Brock
Maybe Betemit has a "Word a Day" calendar.

Or one of those e-mail doohickies.


2007-05-07 23:21:30
186.   sanchez101
If you dislike 'the trade,' can we at least give some of the blame to Tommy Lasorda. If not for his idiocy, Depo would've had a roster with Pedro Martinez (making trading for a front line starter much less necessary) and Paul Konerko (negating the need to pick up Choi).

In an alternate universe the 2004 lineup looks like this:

3.Sheffield (lets assume that Pedro's presence means no need for Kevin Brown and Evans could afford Sheffield)

2007-05-07 23:24:00
187.   sanchez101
186. heh, replace finley with loduce, i don't think finley can catch.
2007-05-07 23:25:51
188.   Eric Enders
184 That sentiment is more properly phrased as "don't know much about the French I took."

The violator is fined $100. The court of Sam Cooke is hereby adjourned.

2007-05-07 23:26:05
189.   Bob Timmermann
Wilson Betemit must know some English adverbs, but it would be hard for him to learn one that English speakers don't use much.

He might have had one of those subliminal vocabulary builder tapes narrated by Dr. Marvin Monroe.

2007-05-07 23:28:44
190.   Eric Enders
Most of the Latin American players I've talked to and/or read about, learned English by watching TV and movies. Maybe Betemit just watches C-SPAN or American Playhouse or something.
2007-05-07 23:31:15
191.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
What's the Spanish word for "lamentably?"
2007-05-07 23:32:39
192.   FirstMohican
If Betemit started making siren noises and knocking stuff over in the clubhouse then we know he learned "lamentably" from peewee's playhouse
2007-05-07 23:35:54
193.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know if "lamentably" has a direct translation into Spanish.

Something like "lamentablamente"

2007-05-07 23:44:10
194.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Babel Fish says the Spanish translation is... "lamentably."
2007-05-07 23:48:19
195.   Paul B
An uneducated guess here, but I think "lamentablemente" is far more common in Spanish than "lamentably" is in English. (A quick Google comparison supports this.) If Wilson was just reaching for the closest thing to the Spanish word, that could explain what seems like unusual phrasing.
2007-05-07 23:51:09
196.   Greg Brock
I threw "Lamentably" into the Google Translator, and this is what I got back:

"The Ship Be Sinkin'"

2007-05-07 23:52:32
197.   Samuel

Which language were you translating the English to?

2007-05-07 23:53:29
198.   Eric Enders
Wilson must have been reading this thread:
2007-05-07 23:56:48
199.   Greg Brock
It's the little known "English to Jive" program Google has. For instance:

English: Mr. Stryker kept his composure while piloting the plane.

Jive: Check it, bleed. Bro... was ON! Didn't trip. But the folks was freakin', Man. Hey, and the pilots were laid to the bone, Homes.
So Blood hammered out and jammed jet ship. Tightened that bad sucker inside the runway like a mother. Shoot.

2007-05-08 00:00:25
200.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
196 - I like that Micheal Ray Richardson quote far better than his most recent.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-05-08 00:03:08
201.   Daniel Zappala
126 I'm with you on this one Bob. I would have a hard time rooting for anyone but the Lakers, having grown up with the great series against the Celtics. I have no reason to want the Warriors to win.

On the other hand, now that I live in Utah, I hear about the Jazz a lot, and anyone would get pulled in toward their home state's team a little over time. I also have lots of Boy Scouts in my troop that pull for the Jazz, and I wouldn't want to seem them be let down.

I sadly missed the game tonight because I was busy being hassled by the police in downtown Anchorage while innocently doing some geocaching.

2007-05-08 00:04:36
202.   Daniel Zappala
Good to see that the Dodgers continue to win regardless of whether I'm one hour ahead of LA or two hours behind.
2007-05-08 00:21:29
203.   Eric L
I've actually read through most of this thread, I can agree that I would have much rather kept Beltre..


Drew put up an OPS+ of 148 and 125 during his stay in LA. At the same time, Beltre put up a 90 and 108. I'm sure that Beltre's defense makes up a bit of difference (defensive spectrum and all) but that this still a pretty huge gap to make up. It should also be noted that Beltre had a heck of a lot more PAs in '05 than Drew.

I was also a fan of LoDuca, but you can't pass up on trading for a dude like Penny. I remember going to a game (Drysdale bobblehead night) in '04. Gagne and Smoltz blew saves and Belly won it later with a bomb. I heard people all around me comment on pass balls (or wild pitches) that "LoDuca would have caught that".

I looked at my brother and said (loud enough for other folks to hear) that "If LoDuca could have caught that, than I am god" because the pitch that LoDuca could have caught, no one would have.

Regardless of what people (Plaschke) thought about DePo, he put the Dodgers in a very good place to compete over the next several seasons. Most of the moves he made didn't hurt the team long term. He brought in Lowe and Penny. Most teams wish they had a couple of guys at the front of the rotation like them.

Most of the moves that DePo made didn't really hurt the team in the long term. I'm still not sure about Ned in that sense (though he has made decent moves, like Furcal).

Sorry for the long post folks...

2007-05-08 00:24:36
204.   Eric L
201 Aside from my rant, I think the Jazz should change their name to the Arches, Monuments, or Plateaus.

Aside from trying to get a beer in a bar, Utah is one of my favorite states to visit. Outside of Montana/Wyoming (Yellowstone), some of the natural monuments are pretty cool. I visited Zion when it was 100 degrees and Bryce when it was freezing and they were both awesome.

2007-05-08 00:28:39
205.   underdog
167 Reminds me of a once-funny joke I heard after first moving up here:
"How many East Bay teens does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"


I'm sure I'm not alone in liking both Northern and Southern Cal for different reasons; grew up in the latter, live in the former, went to school in both places, worked in both places, like them both, both have many annoying qualities. But I like most things about SF except the Giants (and parking and the cost of living and ... where was I?)

201 Not even sure what geocaching is but sounds like fun.

2007-05-08 06:14:43
206.   Andrew Shimmin
It's a scavenger hunt with GPS devices. It's one of the things teetotalers do when we find it necessary to pretend we're just as much fun as everybody else.
2007-05-08 06:25:37
207.   old dodger fan
I have some friends who did it on a camping trip last year. I think they enjoyed it but didn't much care for the effect of the poison ivy they walked thru.
2007-05-08 06:54:08
208.   old dodger fan
Cannon Fodder for Early Morning Posters-

We played our 32nd game last night which is almost exactly 20% of the season. I made some comparisons to 2006 offense.

Runs - 141 this year which extrapolates to 714. 2006 was 820.

HR's- 17 this year which extrapolates to 86. 2006 was 153.

BA 2007 = .259 --- 2006 = .276
OBP 2007 = .328 --- 2006 = .348
SLG 2007 = .364 --- 2006 = .432
OPS 2007 = .692 --- 2006 = .781

We are 9th in the NL in runs scored this year compared to 4th last year.

We are 13th in OPS compared to 3rd last year.

Our pitching has excelled. Can they carry us to the playoffs?

2007-05-08 06:58:02
209.   bobmac
Well Jon, I was going to post something about the trade for Penny, but as usual with comments from the general population...200 of the 207 comments was about something completely different than the Dodgers or Brad Penny...go figure. Maybe there should be a blog for general crap comments, but I regress. We as sports fans get more involved with personalities...not numbers. So we hated to see Paul LoDuca go as well as Mike Piazza, both popular and great players. I think that is the real problem with fans...not so much with DePodesta personally.
2007-05-08 07:05:52
210.   Benaiah
206 - Teetotaling is edgy in the same way Bob Dylan's move to Christianity was.

As far as "teh trade" is concerned, it is important to note that Depo made a calculated risk in the short term and lost big time. Penny got injured, Hee-Seop Choi and logical Lo Duca replacement Dave Ross didn't hit at all and his "failure" to get Randy Johnson (which would have been a terrible move in retrospect) was reinterpreted as "making a move before securing the second one."

These were three separate flukes, something like staying on 20 against a 6 only to see the dealer flip over a ten and hit a five. If Ross would have hit like in 2003, or in 2006, or even his 2007 PECOTA line of .238/.321/.454 then things would have been fine. If Choi would have hit a few home runs then things would have been fine. If Penny wouldn't have over-pitched and hurt himself then the trade could have been defended in the short term. Unfortunately, everything went bust and all the detractors ripped into him and there was no defense (even though the team made the playoffs and the pitching was terrible so clearly he had a right to be concerned).

If the prospects had been a year older then 2005 wouldn't have happened. If Drew didn't get hurt then Depo would still be G.M. If... if... if... and then suddenly you have Juan Pierre for 5 years.

2007-05-08 07:06:59
211.   Jon Weisman
209 - "200 of the 207 comments was about something completely different than the Dodgers or Brad Penny."

a) Not true. Not even close.

b) Even if it were true, doesn't mean you can't post about the Dodgers or Brad Penny.

c) Offensive phrasing in the next sentence.

Otherwise, well said.

2007-05-08 07:32:07
212.   Disabled List
208 Those are interesting numbers, although entirely predictable by anyone who reads this message board. There's no one here we can point those to and say "See? I told you so!"
2007-05-08 07:33:03
213.   Andrew Shimmin
The pitcher the Marlins got back for Lo Duca looks like he's getting on track. Was Gaby Hernandez hurt all of last year? Still, just turned 21 and he's holding his own in AA.
2007-05-08 07:34:32
214.   gpellamjr
212 Well, there were a few who questioned repeatedly how this year's offense wouldn't be as good as last year's. I just can't remember who they are. Shoot. And I love rubbing it in.
2007-05-08 07:44:34
215.   D4P
My connection to the Internets has been down from the time I submitted 110 until right now.

To 114 and 121 - thanks. I've generally had positive experiences with meeting folks on the Tubes, but this one went, well, down the tube.

2007-05-08 07:45:40
216.   Sushirabbit
I did the math and got 83. Was it 4 hits or 5?
2007-05-08 07:47:16
217.   Sushirabbit
215 yeah, sorry to hear about that freakyness. That would creep me out bigtime. Hopefully we won't find out that Bob's really Joe Morgan.
2007-05-08 07:52:13
218.   Benaiah
215 - As someone who met you from the tubes, I hope this won't sour you on the experience. How did you find out that she was impersonating the other people?
2007-05-08 07:52:14
219.   old dodger fan
215 I saw your comment last night about the Penny LoDuca trade bringing you to this site. I had always thought your "D4P" was "Delino 4 Pedro" but now I think it might be "Duca 4 Penny".
2007-05-08 07:53:05
220.   D4P
I think most of us generally feel like we can tell who's legitimate and trustworthy and who isn't. But unless you meet someone in person, you just never know.
2007-05-08 07:57:23
221.   D4P
The sister character started posting on the Red Sox board last summer. She was supposedly 17 years old, and a big Red Sox fan. Some of the younger guys started "flirting" with her, I guess you'd say, and started communicating with her via email. I think they even started talking on the phone.

I'm not privy to all the details, but apparently one of them called her a few weeks ago, and a husband answered the phone and had no idea who the teenager was. As I understand it, this husband is married to the woman who created the three characters, and she (in a thread that was unfortunately deleted from the Red Sox board before I had a chance to read it) had to confess the whole charade, which she had maintained for over 3 years.

2007-05-08 07:59:13
222.   Benaiah
If you have a fair tolerance for cute, there are some really funny pictures on here. Anyone with girls should bookmark it because it is guaranteed to be a hit at the house.

2007-05-08 08:00:07
223.   Jon Weisman
216 - It was five - sorry.
2007-05-08 08:01:27
224.   Benaiah
221 - So she was impersonating her husband, who was a real person?
2007-05-08 08:04:22
225.   Marty
but I regress

Norm Crosby in the house!

2007-05-08 08:11:20
226.   D4P
So she was impersonating her husband, who was a real person?

I'm not sure yet. I'm waiting for an explanation from her. I don't know whether the husband character was based (1) on her actual husband, (2) someone else she knows, or (3) no one in particular.

2007-05-08 08:13:31
227.   Andrew Shimmin
221- On the bright side, if you ever meet Annie Lennox, you'll have something to talk about.

2007-05-08 08:16:54
228.   Benaiah
226 - So you have an email out to her asking for an explanation? Would you be willing to continue a friendship with her under any circumstances? Obviously this was a huge violation, but if you were close with her then perhaps there was a genuine connection. I am not giving advice, merely thinking verbally.
2007-05-08 08:17:27
229.   Andrew Shimmin
227- Hmm. I wasn't really paying attention, but there are some pictures in the side bar of that link that you might not enjoy having displayed on your work computer. Not exactly NSFW, but maybe better not to risk it. What's the deal with Spencer Tunic, anyway? I don't get how the invitation to the subjects has any appeal.
2007-05-08 08:19:06
230.   bhsportsguy
Dodgers in April 2006 (25 games)
.254/.341/.385 122 runs

Last season the Dodgers had 2 really hot months, May and August, two good months of offense, June and September and one month that was slightly below league average, April and one rock bottom month, July.

Now, last April, the Dodgers pitching staff did this:
108 runs 82 BB 163 K .252 BAA

This April, 101 runs 86 BB 185 K .255 BAA.

Now so far in May, the runs scored column shows only 20, runs against 16.

2007-05-08 08:22:34
231.   D4P
Thanks, A. I've yet to run into Ms. Lennox, but there's still time. BTW: I think I'll check out her "Bare" album.

Yes, I've emailed her, and she has promised to respond at a later, unspecified date. I'm not sure how I feel about a continued relationship. I'm not planning on it, but I suppose her explanation could theoretically change things. I'm not expecting that to happen, though. For one thing, as a married man I don't like the idea of having a close relationship with another woman. I certainly wouldn't have said the things I said if I knew I was speaking to a woman.

2007-05-08 08:31:04
232.   Benaiah
231 - That is an excellent point. It becomes something shady if you are having frequent email conversations with a woman, though since she is married it does defuse the situation somewhat (or maybe it just compounds it). This is a huge violation all the way around.
2007-05-08 08:31:26
233.   D4P
BTW: Benaiah, you may remember the screen name "ttexasgirl" from your days on the ESPN Dodger board.
2007-05-08 08:40:44
234.   DodgerBakers
219. Huh, and I always thought D4P was DePodesta 4 (for) President.
2007-05-08 08:44:27
235.   Benaiah
233 - Definitely. That board was crazy. Between "feeb," this and the general mayhem it was a pretty terrible place. Still, nate, you, scanman, the late Dfan were all good people.

Wow, I can't believe that ttexasgirl was who you are talking about. In retrospect I should have put it together. She was a lawyer and her husband posted from time to time.

2007-05-08 08:46:31
236.   blutomania

I was born in Winnipeg and am heading back there in a month. Maybe I'll keep my ears pricked for growls...

2007-05-08 08:49:23
237.   KBL

Yes, I did start Zito last night and benched Perez.

2007-05-08 08:49:53
238.   D4P
She was a lawyer and her husband posted from time to time

That's them. Er, "them." The husband was supposedly a police officer. The weird thing (well, one of the weird things) is that they both seemed very knowledgeable about their own careers, and were able to give detailed accounts of particular cases, experiences, etc. Not only would it be very difficult to just make all that stuff up in convincing fashion, but to do so for over 3 years (with seemingly little payoff) just doesn't make sense.

2007-05-08 08:59:38
239.   old dodger fan
238 I don't want to sound cynical but I handle other people's money for a living and this has some red flags. Check your own credit from time to time. I don't know what personal info you gave out but it might be used to apply for credit.
2007-05-08 09:06:12
240.   D4P
Thanks for the warning. The kind of personal info I gave out wasn't the kind that would enable someone to steal my identity or anything like that. It was of a more "colorful" nature.
2007-05-08 09:06:42
241.   old dodger fan
Glavine vs Cain tonight in SF. Sounds like a good game.
2007-05-08 09:07:09
242.   Benaiah
239 - I think this is something else altogether. A lot of people enjoy stepping out from themselves on the internet, if you aren't happy with yourself then you can be anything here in the new Wild West. I realize that many people also are running scams, but this seems like a bizarre long con. I doubt that the message boards are the best place to find high rollers.
2007-05-08 09:09:17
243.   D4P
I doubt that the message boards are the best place to find high rollers

Other than Feeb...

2007-05-08 09:11:40
244.   underdog
Attention Uncle Miltie:

Live chat with Jeff Kent on today at 1pm. I repeat, live chat with Jeff Kent today.

Possible questions: Who will replace you when you jump the shark? (he likes motorcycle references) What was it like to hit that home run into thousands of empty seats last night? How many types of mustaches do you have? What do you think of Barry Bonds' pursuit of the HR record? Uh, on second thought, skip that one.

2007-05-08 09:13:41
245.   still bevens
237 It seemed like the damage wasn't as bad as the boxscore indicated since almost all the runs against Perez were unearned, but still is nice to get the W.
2007-05-08 09:14:35
246.   D4P
Which has more range: you, or a rosebush?
2007-05-08 09:15:57
247.   capdodger
242 You don't really need a high roller, though. You need a warm body. Creditors are all too willing to lend (you a hand at digging a massive hole for yourself).
2007-05-08 09:20:46
248.   Branch Rickey
I read this morning's paper and had to get on to post that Betemit has used the word "lamentably". Lamentably I was beaten to it.

Two other Times notes: 1) I believe today is the first time this season that a Dodger story made the top story. Nice to know were in full swing and the team is now worth the attention.
2) I don't think TJ Simers has bad mouthed any of the Dodgers yet this year. What could that mean? Worrisome.

2007-05-08 09:24:45
249.   ToyCannon
From BP's Kevin Goldstein on one of our own and someone most baseball fans are rooting for. Wouldn't it be a hoot if someday Ankiel and Hamilton are both starting Centerfielders. The odds had to be about a Million to 1 at the end of the 2005 season.

Rick Ankiel , OF, Triple-A Memphis (Cardinals) Over the weekend, in need of an extra outfielder, the Cardinals called up minor league veteran Ryan Ludwick, who started in right field for them on Sunday. So Ankiel waits a little longer for what's looking more and more like a remarkable return to the big leagues. Friday night, Ankiel went 3-for-5 with his eighth home run of the year, and he's batting .272/.316/.563 in 103 at-bats while playing a surprisingly decent centerfield. Now 27 years old, the former top pitching prospect in the game still has some holes in his game–-he's an impatient hitter, he struggles against good lefties–-but with plus-plus power, a solid glove, and (not surprisingly) a very good arm, they should get him back up to The Show soon.
Chin-Lung Hu, SS, Double-A Jacksonville (Dodgers)
The hits just keep on coming. Given a rare day off on Friday, Hu was a late-game replacement and doubled in his only at-bat. On Saturday, the 23-year-old Taiwan native had a perfect five-for-five night with three more doubles, giving him 15 on the year, and tying him for the overall minor-league lead. After flying out on Sunday to end the six-for-six streak, Hu added two more hits to raise his season averages to .371/.392/.534. As a prospect for whom the bulk of his reputation is for his glove work, this is an exciting step forward.

2007-05-08 09:25:12
250.   underdog
246 Oooh. I dare you.

My favorite Vegas pitcher TBD is pitching today, btw. He's always been a little erratic.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-05-08 09:27:49
251.   D4P
My internet connection has been acting up of late. I've made multiple calls for assistance, but nothing seems to solve the problem.

BTW: Regarding the rule that all computer-related technical support representatives must have indecipherable accents, is the rule

1. written, or
2. unwritten?

2007-05-08 09:33:16
252.   Jon Weisman
Do you folks think I should accept a blogad from
2007-05-08 09:34:59
253.   ToyCannon
Dodger AA Pitcher Matt Riley picked Pitcher of the Week in Southern League
2007-05-08 09:36:45
254.   kinbote
249 - Jonathan Mayo has more on Hu in his Fantasy 411 piece today on

"Dodgers shortstop prospect Chin-Lung Hu might very well be the best defensive shortstop in the Minors. The question was how much he was going to hit. Back in 2005, he batted .313 and stole 23 bases, giving some images of a young Omar Vizquel. But then he hit just .254 last year with the jump to Double-A, leaving many wondering just what kind of offensive player he could be. The Dodgers smartly sent him back to Double-A -- he's just 23 -- and he's responded by hitting .371 over his first 27 games. He's also swiped five bases and slugged .534 thanks in part to his 15 doubles, showing something Vizquel never really has had: a little pop. Hu's glove will get him to the big leagues and keep him there, and he could be a nice little average/speed guy for your middle infield in the next year or so."

2007-05-08 09:38:13
255.   D4P
Hey Guys, if you're like me, Rich, Successful, and Hard Working, it must be very difficult to find that missing woman that will complete the picture

Cause women hate Rich, Successful, and Hard Working men.

2007-05-08 09:39:08
256.   Branch Rickey
252. Pimps who use celebrity photos illegally? Probably not.
2007-05-08 09:40:30
257.   Jon Weisman
255 - "Hi, my name is Profit ..."

Famous Profits in TV history:

2007-05-08 09:43:03
258.   ToyCannon
I thought escort services were there to serve those rich folk who didn't have the woman to complete the picture.
2007-05-08 09:45:46
259.   ToyCannon
So tell me again why were worried about losing Valdez on waivers when we have Abreu and Hu lurking below not to mention the esteemed veteran presence of Timo Perez.
2007-05-08 09:47:08
260.   kinbote
253 - not bad for a guy who's had three T.J. surgeries!
2007-05-08 09:47:39
261.   Joshua Worley
What's the story on Hu's plate discipline? It doesn't sound as if he's walking much this year.

252 - Would it harm the integrity of this site to accept that ad? I don't think so, but I wonder what someone new to the site would think if they saw it.

2007-05-08 09:47:41
262.   Branch Rickey
258. Yeah but an escort is someone you pay once and she then goes away. This is an opportunity to pay a large fee to a huckster so you can have a prostitute actually ring you up again and again until all of your money is gone. See?
2007-05-08 09:50:23
263.   Jon Weisman
262 - You've done enough. Have you no sense of romance, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of romance?
2007-05-08 09:57:15
264.   ToyCannon
They must have been drawn to Jon's title.
2007-05-08 09:57:50
265.   Branch Rickey
I though that was romantic.
2007-05-08 10:03:33
266.   Jon Weisman
265 - :)
2007-05-08 10:12:35
267.   DXMachina
257 Except the TV Profit doesn't need a private jet anymore. He can fly all by himself.
2007-05-08 10:20:10
268.   Jon Weisman
267 - So true.
2007-05-08 10:25:10
269.   Bob Timmermann
I would vote no on that ad.
2007-05-08 10:37:38
270.   D4P
BTW: How much would they pay you for their ad?
2007-05-08 10:47:31
271.   das411
I would just ask anybody that votes yes or no on Post 252 to we really want a Deadspin-esque "Snorg girl" situation here at this fine establishment?
2007-05-08 10:50:26
272.   D4P
Depends on whether there's "Profit"-sharing...
2007-05-08 10:54:27
273.   Andrew Shimmin
From today's UTK: "If you're looking for good news on Jason Schmidt, then his throwing session in the outfield on Monday might be your ray of sunshine. There's still no timetable for his return, but expect the normal steps between here and there ..."

2007-05-08 11:11:29
274.   Jon Weisman
Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the ad.

New post up top.

2007-05-08 11:21:37
I was under the impression that we DESPERATELY needed a closer the year we traded konerko for shaw...and Konerko sucked for a couple of years before getting good with the white sox, no? how can you say that Lasorda was a total idiot for making that trade at the time, if you praise Depo trading for Penny to make that push into the playoffs? did we also get d.reyes in that trade? didn't shaw have like 40 saves that year? didn't konerko hit somewhere around .230 that year and the yearafter? who did the reds get for trading/letting go konerko?
2007-05-08 14:09:21
276.   Andrew Shimmin
Mike Cameron. Reyes was part of the trade, but he went to Cincinnati with Konerko, not the other way around.

Shaw was the best relief pitcher on the team for about one and a half years of the three and a half he spent in L.A. None of those teams was one closer short of being really good, so, I don't know if it's right to say they should have been desperate for a closer. Not in the way that the teams, since 2000, have been desperate for firstbasemen.

Konerko has had two sub par years since the trade, only over one of which is it fair to say he sucked. He wasn't as good as he's been the last two years till the last two years, but he's been nothing to sneeze at, overall. Whereas Shaw may not rate even the sneeze.

2007-05-08 14:20:01
277.   bobmac
My apologizes for the 'c**p' comment...certainly no offense intended.

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