to continue from the last thread, ive tried to talk about dodger prospects on date. It doesnt turn out well because

1. the girl usually doesnt care

2. dodger prospects are usually more interesting then whatever the said girl has to talk about

so the date either ends and i never call her again or the date ends with a happy ending and i still never call her again.

I thought all the Dodger pitchers went to Carousel in the seventh inning.

Great Baseball Smiles I Have Known

Takashi Saito
Dontrelle Willis
Ken Griffey Jr.
Ramon Martinez Sr.
Roy Campanella
The sly Fernando grin

2 - What if we sent them to Ferris Wheel instead?

ESPN is telling me that Beimel is on the DL. Is that a mistake, or did I miss something?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/roster?team=lad

so the date either ends and i never call her again or the date ends with a happy ending and i still never call her again

FOLKS!

2 - They may walk the bases loaded, but they'll never walk alone.

5 Perhaps a new tattoo is being designed as we speak.

5 - Can't find anything to back that up right now.

5 Isn't this the same website that informed us last month that Yhency Brazoban had entered the game in relief?

By the way, does anyone follow Grittle's logic that adding a 12th pitcher would necessitate moving Billingsley to the rotation? I'm not complaining, I'm just not seeing how 1+1=2.

11 - No, I don't see how the two are related. That was confusing.

With two strong potential shortstops in Abreu and Hu, should the dodgers consider extending furcal beyond 2008? I realize this conversation might be premature but it seems to be more cost efficient to plug abreu and hu at SS and use the 12 mil leftover to address other needs.

11

im still trying to figure that one out to go along with who he would be replacing in the rotation. I think that 10 pitch, 3 strikeout inning yesterday really opened up some eyes.

Perhaps the last bullet point answers the preceding bullet point. Jason Schmidt in the rotation would (theoretically) allow for Tomko to go into long relief and pick up the middle innings. Of course, I thought that was what Billinglsey was for, too, so what do I know.

13- Assuming Pierre doesn't get moved, what needs will there be?

Tony Jackson providing some of his insight on the Pierre situation...

As for the other thing, my guess is you're eventually going to see (maybe later this year, maybe next year) JP in left field, Kemp in center and Ethier in right. For now, I say ride Gonzo as long as he is still productive (could be all year), then move him to the bench as a LHH.

that really doesnt solve the problem now does it Tony!?!?

Did Grittle give the Billingsley might go to the rotation quote to more than one source? Maybe he was misunderstood.

16

Pitching? I dont know, i havent looked into my crystal ball yet.

19- my Magic 8 Ball said to "try again later." Stupid waffling 8 Ball.

Carousel is a lie! THERE IS NO RENEWAL!

Sorry, what were we talking about again?

Oh yeah, the 7th - where Dodger starters go to die. If they haven't died in the 6th, that is.

Meanwhile, my ABC channel is not coming in on my cable network tonight but the HD ABC channel does come in - audio only (since I don't have an HD TV). So, basically, I'm listening to Lost. Which is pretty sad.

21

lost was intense, im still confused.

22 Me too, but that's partially because I can't see any of it.

In the book Logan's Run the age of death is 21.

Don't know if ths has been posted previously but Diamond Leung of The Press-Enterprise thinks that there is some upside to having Juan Pierre on the team beyond this season outside of his play:

Marlins star pitcher Dontrelle Willis will be eligible for free agency for the first time following the 2009 season. Not only does he love Southern California, but also one of his dearest friends happens to be Dodgers center fielder Juan Pierre..."I think he wants me to come to LA, so we'll see," Willis said, smiling.

http://tinyurl.com/2236fx

16

i just looked into my crystal ball and this is what its telling me.

2009

C- Russ Martin
1b- James Loney
2b- Wilson Betemit
ss- Tony Abreu
3b- Andy Laroche
LF- Adam Dunn
CF- Andre Ethier
RF- Matt Kemp

UIF- Hu

SP
Penny
Billingsley
Kuo
Schmidt
Elbert

Steve comes out from his Juan Pierre signed with the Dodgers coma, kidnaps Pierre and places him on Lost island.

In all seriousness though, where is Steve?

10

It was MLB's Gameday that goofed by saying Brazoban came into the game. I think they corrected the mistake within 20 minutes, but I posted something about it on Jackie Robinson Day.

It's too bad my buddy doesn't still write for Lost. I'd have him drop JP in as a red herring.

27

Turns out Steve was just Steve's wife playing her own husband, Steve, on the internet.

30

trippy.

31

Based on true events.

I see the logic that Martinez/Valdez is redundant. I would be against promoting Hu to the majors, though, if that's what was being suggested.
Hu's finally having a nice run with the stick. Let him ride it out. I'd be more inclined to call up later this season. I acknowledge Hu could contribute as a reserve, perhaps similarly to Valdez. I expect that he would at least make contact and do a nice job defensively. Presumably, he is a decent bunter. But I just think there's more to gain from keeping him in Double-A. Sometimes in these instances a phantom injury is the best solution. Sticking Valdez on the DL and then minor-league rehab might be a decent move. I figure Nomar or Kent are about due to get dinged. I'd be reluctant jettison anyone.

I don't read anyone as wanting Hu up now, just as believing him to be a better double-emergency replacement SS than Valdez.

This isn't another jab at Pierre. It's a way for the Dodger to consider a potential solution. Dave Roberts is in decline, probably needs elbow surgery and the Giants are in go-for-it mode, the same Giants who reportedly offered Pierre $36 million last winter.

Probably it would be too radical for Ned to broach a Pierre trade to the Giants, but I would be heartening to know that the Dodgers would at least consider it. I could see it taking on some traction this offseason. I doubt the Giants are expecting Roberts to suddenly become the answer in CF. He's breaking down. Pierre is 5-6 years younger. And he is durable. And he would be owed $36 million after this season.

Is Miguel Cabrera a FA after 2008? If Kent and Furcal are off the books, and there really is a spot open in LF, I want him, no matter what it costs. I don't trust Dunn to age well.

Is Ben's dad also Uncle Rico?

Pierre's desire to bring Willis to the Dodgers should create chills, not thrills. Willis is pretty good, but he's also pretty erratic and you can be certain that the Marlins would want Matt Kemp for him. The Dodgers would be better off keeping Kemp and seeing what Elbert can do in 2008 and maybe Kershaw in late 2009.

36

Yeah, I want Cabrera too. Not Greg Brock want him, but want him. But I don't want him at third base.

Sorry if this was repeated here earlier, but just saw that Dave Roberts might need arthro surgery, be out about 4 weeks.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2865752

Not that he was contributing all that much to the Giants, but they're better off with him manning CF than Linden.

35 Damn, I was slow to post there.

Anyway, I really don't see a trade with the Giants happening anytime soon. (It's a nice scenario, though.)

MLB4U has him going FA after 2009. So. Nuts to that. I thought he'd been a super two.

40

I agree and disagree. I think Roberts is a better defender than Linden, although by some accounts, Linden has looked pretty good in CF. But I also think they need find out once and for all if there's any hope for Linden. He's not much of a prospect, but he's one of the few they have.

I also think wouldn't be stunned to see Winn end up there, and maybe they give Fred Lewis or even Timpner a bit of a look.

I got a girl into Dodger prospects. She was also an A's fan, but now shes loves the Dodgers too. Hehehe.

New chat thread at Screen Jam - featuring but not limited to Lost chat.

43 Oh I don't think Linden is bad as a corner outfielder, and maybe he does just need more time in CF (like Matt Kemp) but he's looked pretty bad out there. A Giants fan I know doesn't like Linden. But yeah, a better solution is Winn in CF and Linden at RF and calling up someone. Their OFs in the minors are pretty weak imho.

44 Woo hoo!

My g/f doesn't even like sports; it's just a victory getting her to the point where she asks how the Dodgers are doing, just because she knows I'll get depressed if they stink. Even if it makes no sense to her.

45 I better skip that, until after I can watch the episode all the way through online - this time with picture, too.

46
Yeah, I know what you mean. It means so much to guys to find a girl into sports.

That girl now loves Martin, Ethier, Bills, and Kemp and now I am getting her to love LaRoche.

I got my gf to like the Broncos. Now she just talks about how the Cardinals uniforms are "cuter" than the Broncos. It was a hollow victory at best.

I saw Linden play CF at the game I went to. He neglected to pick up a grounder, letting a runner take an extra base. The only other ball I remember being hit to him was an easy fly that he caught. He didn't look good, but it was just one game.

The trouble with trading with the Giants is that they don't have any back breaking contracts we could return the favor by picking up. The two worst could be Morris and Benitez, each of whom have, lamentably, played well so far this year.

49
Haha, yeah she always talks about how cute the guys are more than their on base percentage!!!

Awww, a Broncos fan huh. Well my Raiders will...

uhhhh, hopefully beat you once this year!

to be honest, I welcome the Raiders getting competitive again. It's lot more fun to hate a team when you don't feel sorry for them. It's a lot like the Dodgers/ Giants rivalry. Earlier this year, my Giants fan buddy's biggest smack talk was "I hope Jason Schmidt gets hurt."

Of course, considering how that turned out...

52
Well, for the first time in years, I am optimistic about the Raiders. All I want is improvement and really our defense is good enough that all we need is is a few touchdowns a game.

So is it time to sign Russ Martin to a McCann-Mauer contract yet? The longer we wait the more expensive it's going to get.

53- agreed. I'm kind of amazed Ryan didn't get the head coaching job. Of course, protection for JaMarcus the Hut is a whole other issue.

54- I assume John Donovan's SI article was mentioned here?

54
No point in doing it until he reaches his arbitration years. He is earning the minimum now and we should take advantage of that.

55
I have been surprised with how much I like Kiffin. I wanted to draft Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson personally, but I actually have confidence in what Lane is doing. Everything has been positive so far. He has hired a lot of ex-UCLA coaches.

50

Call me unrealistic, but I was hoping that the Giants would be flexible in any Pierre trade talks. After all, they did offer him $36 million last offseason. Maybe they take on the bulk of the contract, the Dodgers eat some of the money, get a Munter and a Copeland and everybody's happy. I know, I know, not likely.

I actually would like to see Fred Lewis get a bit of a look with the Giants. He's not a good prospect or even a pretty good one. He is a pretty good defender in CF, knows how to take a walk. A good athlete. I'm pretty sure he came to baseball late relative to most pros. Would like to see him figure it out.

56- I disagree, actually. LA has the resources to buy out his years, and I think he's the one guy we need to commit too.

I've heard very bad things about Kiffin. Starting with the fact that he sat in on Sarkisian's interview, so he already knew how to answer the questions. I've got a friend who follows USC who said good riddance to Kiffin, because he was hated on campus. He thinks that Kiffin will be the worst coach in the league. I counter with "Art Shell" only I say it in a sort of sing songy voice. So we both had good arguments.

58
I do think we need to commit to Martin, but we should when its economically smart. Believe me, I want to extend Martin, just when it is the right time, so we can save money.

I have heard that stuff about Kiffin, but as you said, we had Art Shell and Art Shell was stuck 30 years in the past, so it can only get better. Kiffin as a person, has been very impressive. Art Shell gave me no confidence whatsoever when he spoke, but Kiffin gives me hope. I like how he has run practices and I like how he has treated the personnel. Getting rid of Moss showed me he is serious about rebuilding this team.

Lane Kiffin took one of the best offenses in the NCAA and somehow it managed to score just nine points against UCLA.

NINE!

UCLA's defense was good, but it wasn't "hold one of the top five teams in the country to nine points" good.

60
LOL. As a Bruin and Raider fan, I am aware of this, but we were in such a bad place before Kiffin, that he has been a real positive for us.

Andrew Walter said he ran a more complicated offense in high school, that is how bad we were last year.

60
LOL. As a Bruin and Raider fan, I am aware of this, but we were in such a bad place before Kiffin, that he has been a real positive for us.

Andrew Walter said he ran a more complicated offense in high school, that is how bad we were last year.

I guess I look at a $120 million dollar payroll and see no one who is a threat for:
Cy Young
Silver Slugger
Gold Glove

and I stop caring about the $25 million it would take to secure Martin and both his tangibles and intangibles for 5 years.

and Andrew Walter is from Colorado. Woo hoo! complicated Grand Junction offenses!

63
We are not the smartest team when it comes to spending money, but that does not mean we should compound the problem by spending when we do not have to. Wait a little while and extend Martin, Kemp, LaRoche, Bills, etc.

As much as I'm frustrated by our management's seeming inability to put the best 25 players on the bench, I'd much rather have our problems right now than the Giants'.

LaRoche looks like the real deal.

64- and I guess I just don't see it as "compounding the problem."

Of course, I fully admit to a bias based on how much I spend to go to Dodger games vs. how much I spent on Rockies season tickets (Juan Pierre era there, too, by the by).

65- abso-freakin-lutely

My how I wish we could just trade for Miggy Cabrera. I would give them LaRoche, Elbert, AND James Loney tomorrow for that guy. That's a lot but that's how much my man love goes for him lol.

How's about this for a theory: Saito is to Gagne as Steve Young was to Joe Montana. Which is to say however good he is, it will always be a mortal versus a legend. And while Young is a Hall of Famer in his own right, Saito has only one good season and the start of another so far. And I don't think anyone is expecting Saito to win a Cy Young Award.

67
Wow, you sound like Brock. I like Cabrera a lot too, but there is no reason to give up that many good players for him. Yes, I think those players will be that good and it helps the future of our team to have those three more than it does just having Cabrera.

He is obviously an elite player, but one player does not make a team good.

I once worked with a sports editor who said the Raiders' offense was "a commitment to yesterday."
That was in 1995.

68. The best part of that analogy, of course, is that Young was the better quarterback. No one in SF would agree with that (rings is rings, baby!) but Young was just as smart, had a much stronger arm, was the most accurate passer ever (I think that's still true) and could run like a halfback. As a Southern Californian exiled in the Bay Area during the SF heyday, AND as a lifelong Packers fan, I hated everything about the Niners, but Steve Young was the best I ever saw. That includes everyone back to Bart Starr - I can't comment on Sid Luckmann.

I'm not saying Montana wasn't a Hall of Famer. Just that Young was better. And I'm tickled with Saito too.

12th pitcher: Little said he thinks adding another pitcher is "inevitable" and would probably happen before next Thursday's day off. The most likely candidate currently on the 40-man roster seems to be Hong-Chih Kuo, who has 15 strikeouts in 8 1/3 innings, but also has allowed four walks and two homers.

Little also indicated that going to 12 pitchers might lead to the return to the starting rotation of Chad Billingsley, who struck out each of the three batters he faced Tuesday night.

"It takes a while for a starting pitcher to get accustomed to the lifestyle of the bullpen, not that we want him to get real comfortable down there," Little said. "I don't think that's where he ends up.

"We could stretch him out if we got 12 pitchers," Little said. "He could probably go four innings if it was tomorrow. This guy's been a starter his whole career."

http://tinyurl.com/3c5rgt

72
That actually makes me happy and optimistic. Maybe we see Hendrickson and/or Tomko get traded and see the return of Bills and Kuo to the rotation.

72. I hadn't seen the last part of the Little quote. That's an interesting twist. It suggests that Little sees Billingsley's current bullpen slot as not a result of too many starters, but of too few relievers - that until he gets 12, he NEEDS Billingsley in the pen.

Kinda weird, though with Hendrickson pitching out of his mind, I guess it's worked out pretty well so far.

69
Well the way I see it is that Florida won't trade him until the 2009 season unless they got a ton in return for him and with our team set-up to win this year and 1B is an easy position to fill in FA as well as us having a solid depth in SP prospects in Kershaw, Miller, Kuo, Josh Wall, etc I could easily do that deal for Cabrera which would solidify 3B with POWER for years to come and if anything enhance our chances for a WS ring this year and for future years as he would be our franchise player along with Martin, Kemp, Abreu, and Ethier for years to come so our payroll stays in check.

I can't imagine Florida not having an interest in Elbert, Loney, and LaRoche as a centerpierce to any deal involving Cabrera for at least 2 years.

By keeping Nomar in place of Loney we basically have no place to play him this year and he's 23. If anything this trade would solve many problems for both teams as payroll is a concern for them and we have so many prospects and too many aging vets on our team to have a way to play them. Hell throw in Brady Clark to make them have a decent CF and it's still fine as long as we have Kemp to spell our OF's some rest.

And in 2008 even if Kent retires we have Abreu and/or Betemit to step in.

SS Furcal
CF Pierre
C Martin
3B Cabrera
1B Nomar
LF Kemp
RF Ethier
2B Betemit/Abreu Platoon

T.J. Simers has skin cancer.

http://tinyurl.com/3b47w3

is it possible that la roche will win the job just by walking? i mean, he's got to be getting on base more often than betemit and without having to hit the ball.

[71] as a packer fan, i too hated the niners. it's weird, SF is my favorite city in the world, but i detest their sports teams.

So.... Dave Roberts MAY need surgery. My understanding is we barley "beat out" the Giants in the Pierre chase last off season. Interesting.

I think there's very little chance Pierre will be traded. Colletti went out and got him; it was an act of volition. Doesn't it seem likely that anything that would make him not want Pierre anymore would also make Sabean not want him? The Giants are one forty-three year old knee's re-exploding away from accepting their fate. They're probably playing over their heads already, so they'd have to continue that for at least another thirty-six days. And, even that would mean that Sabaen (assuming he sees Kemp as an upgrade) would have to intentionally better the competition in a race he thought he could win.

I just don't see it happening. Maybe in a couple or three years, Colletti will offload the back end to somebody else. That's as far as I'm willing to get my hopes up.

Loney had been impressive for quite a few years now and if it were not for his wrist being injured a couple of years ago he would have hit his way into the lineup in 2005. He is a Jow Mauer type of hitter and the Dodgers are just missing the boat with this guy.

If the Dodgers bring up Kuo he could be assigned to start the 5th inning in games Billingsley starts until Bills increases his innings. This way the 12 pitcher is a fifth inning starter every 5 games. That might serve Kuo and Bills since they are both starters.

I smell a trade brewing. And, Kemp is still playing CF and hitting second with the 51s.

I believe the Dodgers will trade Pierre and pay for his fifth year and yes, I think the Giants are in the mix for this trade.

So, Pierre, plus $9 million, for? And, since I don't think Colletti has ever traded just one player at a time, it seems like it'd be Pierre, plus the cash, plus whichever prospect he's not feeling so sunny about today for ...? They don't need a SP. Who knows what Sabaen thinks of his bullpen, but whatever it is, he probably doesn't want another lefty. They could use a 1B.

It's possible to lose a trade in which Pierre is sent away. It's not easy, but it is possible.

83 - I could eventually see a trade with Pierre plus 2-3 million per year left on his contract for the right to not have him on the team. That trade is a couple of years away though. The best hope at this point is that Pierre gets a day or two a week on the bench as a pinch hitter/pinch runner, but I wonder if Little or Ned even think he is struggling?

The White Sox need a CF, and may have a philosophy consistent with liking Pierre. But theirs is doing better than Pierre, so far, even if that seemingly can't persist. Is Ryan Sweeney expected to stick at CF?

The only NL West team whose CF production isn't in the bottom six in MLB OPS is Arizona.

I see no realistic giants-dodgers trade scenario involving Pierre. I cannot even think of a player on the giants that i would want to add to our team.

[86] the only giants i'd want would be cain or lincecum, and there's no way the giants are giving either of them to us, let alone for juan pierre.

I would add Roberts, actually. Nice 4th OF, pinch runner.
Not that I think any of this happens.....

That said, I am definitely in the pitching + LaRoche for Cabrera camp. He made some great plays last night.

I'd give them Pierre, Lowe, Loney, and several freight cars full of cash for Cain. And I'd offer to embezzle as much of the cash as he liked into Sabean's private account.

man, all this really seems rather pointless. i think i'm just done with pierre talk. whatever.

By the way great post up top-
Saito is definitely one of the best closers in baseball that no one has ever heard of. Heck, he is one of the best closers in baseball period.
The guy just truely loves to save games, its fun to watch.

The Dodgers and Giants have traded any player of substance since Jackie Robinson's putative deal in 1957.

Unless you have a very high opinion of Tom Haller, Ron Hunt, Nate Olive, Candy Maldonado, and Alex Trevino.

93- Or a very low opinion of, well, never mind. And let's not permit one of the finest named ball players of all time be dismissed as not having been "of substance." He may not be a Hall of Famer, but the world is better for having known Candy Maldonado. The spirit of Candy Maldonado embiggens us all!

Pierre, CF

Martin, C

Nomar, 1B

Gonzo, LF

Ethier, RF

Betemit, 3B

Valdez, SS

Martinez, 2B

Lowe, P

MLB.com

i really liked candy maldonado when i was a kid.

I thought today would be Lieberthal's Day.

95 - The lower Valdez's average and OPS sink, the more he gets to play. Hopefully Betemit is on today and he establishes how superfluous the tandem of Lucille II and Valdez are.

93 My 1st thought was Juan Marichal but he made a pit stop in Boston on the way. Of course he was no longer a "player of substance" at that point. He was sure fun to hate (in a good Dodger Giant rivalry kind of way) back in the 60's though.

97 - Normally I would agree, but resting Kent, Furcal and Martin on the same day is like conceding.

I normally read but don't comment on trade talk but saw the following on the Dallas Morning News-It is a Q&A regarding the Rangers GM-

From e-mail: My question is one of the IF kind. IF the Rangers can't get it together and get over .500 and into the AL West race, and IF we decide to sell off, who are the likely candidates to leave and where will they go and who do we get back.

Scott

Evan Grant: Wow, Scott, you don't want much do you? It would be a total guess right now, but Mark Teixeira certainly would be a guy the Rangers would have to consider trading. I think depending on where Hank Blalock's offense and defense stand, he could be in the mix, too. And every potential free agent on this team, as well.

As for the return: The Rangers would need to get back pitching and a major league ready first baseman or outfielder. For me, the best deal the Rangers could try to make is with Baltimore for Nick Markakis and a pitcher. Easier said than done for many reasons, including that Baltimore may not be a contender and the Orioles are difficult to deal with.

By the way, we are fast approaching the 100 year anniversary of the birth of one Marion Morrison, the man who would command the silver screen like a colossus as John Wayne. May 26, 1907 he was born in Winterset, Iowa. My favorite of his movies is either Red River or The Quiet Man, what a man.

This will be the game chat thread.

Baltimore would have to be double plus crazy to rent Teixeira for this year. To beat out the D'rays for fourth place? Even that might be a stretch, especially depending on the pitcher.

104 It would be for next year too, though Teixeira would cash in big time in arbitration. I could see something like Loney and Lowe for Teixeira, and I wouldn't hate that.

104 It is probably nothing more than the musings we have here where we send Pierre, Hendy and Tomko off for a HOF type slugger. But it was fun to read.

Why aren't any of the good players as close to being FA eligible as I wish they were? He is a Boras client, so, there's no chance he isn't going to be a FA, right? And he'd be available right when Nomar's contract ran out. So, maybe losing Loney won't be the end of the world if it happens.

107 - Andruw Jones springs to mind. Maybe we could trade Pierre to Atlanta for Jones and cash, and then resign Andruw?

108 - Not likely, but thoughts like this help me sleep at night.

I watched on TV Tomko's mini-meltdown after he gave up his first hit. It took all he had just to get out of that inning. I think he needs a visit to Hendrickson's sports-shrink.

The Baltimore Sun says that the Orioles are interested in Chan Ho Park or Odalis Perez. Really. This is not a joke (except to Orioles fans).

110

I love that Grady visited him on the mound after the dinker hit.
Its like they know....

Saito has made my wife enjoy the game of baseball so much more. We both look forward to any time he can come out and close the game. His smile is infectious, and I love the way he and Nomar hug after every win/save.

108 - Assuming free agent compensatory picks haven't gone away or changed drastically for the worse, and assuming they still have talented people handling their player development and drafting department, the Braves would be much better off keeping A. Jones all year and reaping the draft picks when he signs elsewhere.

And I suspect they know that.

112 Yeah, sometimes Dodger management seems to know what's going on with the team.

I had a great post yesterday in which I broke all the rules (does too much Zoloft count as being intoxicated?), but Tomko gave up the hit right before I was going to hit "submit".

Martinez and Valdez in the same lineup. Man. I would have liked to see Betemit at 2B with La Roche at 3B, with only one waste of space on the field.

114 - The Braves are fairly un-SABR and Juan Pierre is the ideal "makeup" player. He is nice, community friendly, well spoken and generally a great teammate. Perhaps some pitching or prospects would have to be involved, but if we could get a contract extension then I wouldn't mind. Plus, if Jones signs with a team that drafts in the first half of the first round then they Braves would only get a sandwich pick for him, that is a big risk (if you think that is unlikely, think about the Cubs and Soriano).

116 - Actually, the biggest problem is that Jones would never sign an extension because he is a Boras client. Then, I would be happy just to get rid of Pierre. This is pie in the sky talk anyway.

115 Our lineup last night wasn't optimal and we still pulled it off. Granted its nice to have security and all that but I have my hopes up. I think Grady does too. He seems to have faith in sticking backups in the lineup when Lowe is on the mound.

It is almost game time.

Marlin starter Sergio Mitre was born in LA, went to SD City College. Last start was against SD. He went 6 IP; 1 ER.

115 - I understand your thought about the lineup, but Lowe pitching does present a valid reason to go for your best middle infield defense.

Havoc!

I hope Martin hits 2nd for Dodgers for the next 50 years or so.

I must admit I was shocked to see our line-up. I must admit after some thought is has its point. But I think it is mainly predicated on certain vets playing better with some rest. I'm not totally comfortable with that.

Look at Pierre with the nice bunt & the steel, great start.

Wow the nu-gameday stolen base indicator is like a pinball game.

Can anyone enlighten me as to why Aaron Boone is playing first base for the Marlins and not Mike Jacobs? Injury?

126 Yep. His thumb is hurt I believe.

Wow, The Player has announced his presence with authority. Bunt and a steal.

And a day off for me. Woo...Hoo.

Yeah, just tuned in, saw Pierre leading off, Martin 2nd, no Furcal, no Kent. Should be an interesting game.

127. Thanks. It didn't appear to bother him on that rocket he hit last night off Tomko. Our good fortune.

Theres that vaunted Dodgers warning track power on display.

And there's 10,000 schoolkids in the ballpark today, which means, there's at least 10,000 people in the stands for once.

That is not a good start for Lowe. Let's hope that was an aberration.

Gameday says all those pitches were low in the zone. Maybe out of it, but low in it.

The Martinez-Valdez combo should be good defensively, at least. So we have that going for us.

133 Apparently it was - sinkers and ground balls after that.

Walk, double play, groundout -- thats acceptable.

Can anyone enlighten me as to why Aaron Boone is playing first base for the Marlins

I heard it was an injury issue also but Aaron Boone looks like a natural first baseman wow.

I've never heard of Marlon Arias, but whoever he is, he pitched no hitter for Inland Empire last night. (From Tony Jackson.)

Theres that vaunted Dodgers patience on display.

Jerry Reuss reminds me of the cabinet secretary in Idiocracy who ended every sentence with 'brought to you by Carl's Jr.'.

I'm not happy hearing the M's announcer touting how Lowe doesn't give up HRs.

122 - Dodger Thoughts, 2057.

For crying out loud, will Russell Martin ever move himself out of the No. 2 slot. The guy is 74 years old! Just because he's the manager and has 2,500 career wins doesn't mean he can't be honest with himself.

141 - I have that on TiVo - no spoilers :)

144 - It is very funny, in a caustic, mad at the world way. It is short too, only something like 80 minutes long.

20 pitches so far for Lowe.

144 Spoiler: Almost everyone in that movie is an idiot.

I laughed many times, even if it's much more uneven than Office Space.

----

Okay, I have dibs on a 1-0 final score in today's game pool.

144 Idiocracy? Fantastic movie. I gave max effort to try to get every single person I know to see the movie in theaters when it was in (the world's most) limited release because Fox was trying to kill it.

143 As long as Pierre's not still out there...

I was disappointed with Idiocracy, mostly because I compared it with Office Space.

Pierre walks on four pitches. Where was this yesterday?

did Pierre just WALK?

hey, he walked on 4 pitches! good for him.

Mitre pitched around Pierre, wanted nothing to do with the Lil' Slugger.

Pierre is having the game of the year. A bunt and a walk, in the same game!

SO far, Pierre is having a good game. Keep it up, Juan! Really, I'm rooting for you! Make me look like a fool -- I can handle it!

148- I work at Fox. There's a one sheet for Idiocracy in the Searchlight offices. We joke that it constitutes the entirety of the promotion budget.

148, 150 - "Office Space" is pretty uneven in its own right, though "Idiocracy" is way more so. Fox slashed the budget and then dumped the movie in something like 6 theaters with no commercials and refused to let it play in any festivals. Still, it is screamingly funny and really sharp satire, with a few technical and narrative problems.

Has anyone seen CSA: Confederate States of America? I think that was my favorite movie of last year, tied with Children of Men anyway.

Martin!!

It's like he just didn't want to be on base any more.

Marlins announcer on Martin just there: "Is there anything Martin can't do?"

Lowe's getting all kinds of favors done for him. I like it. (for now)

157 Do you work in the Century City complex? Im a couple blocks up the street off Ave. of the Stars.

Oh ,that Martin. And our defense. But I'm not sure how this line-up gets the run.

Now 28 pitches for Lowe through 3.

Beat-it fish baserunner.

158 - I really am trying to keep steering the entertainment conversation to Screen Jam, still.

162- yeah, in the Die Hard tower.

158 I rented CSA a few months ago and really liked much of it - especially the hilarious, and disturbing, fake ads. Really clever film, even if not all of it works. Would make a good double feature with Ken Burns' Civil War ;-)

166 - We are always hanging out here, so while we will jump there to post on a subject, the spontaneous stuff ends up here.

What's up with Azamega anyway - looks like his mascara's running.

rats, I have to leave for work soon - which means I'll probably miss the one inning of the game where someone scores.

167- I'm looking right at the Northwest side of your building!

The Afflac trivia question is pretty easy today.

I like the way Gonzo worked the count there and allowed Nomar to go back to the dugout to rest so quickly. Well done, hip hip!

169 - I get that things pop up spontaneously, but when it starts to become "have you seen this," "have you seen that," I think I've been pretty clear that for now, at least, I'd like that to be over there.

I know that attendance over there is a problem, but I am going to try to do things to build it up, and we have to start somewhere.

Steve Sax and Eric Karros, Dodger captains.

These Marlins announcers are a little off.

168 - I had a hard time watching a lot of the movie, the satire was so cutting that I felt uncomfortable through a lot of the movie. Plus, the main premise of the movie is not "What if" but more like drawing a parallel between the USA and the CSA. I watched the movie twice in two days, I was so blown away by it.

171- He said menacingly, in a thin, Eastern European accent.

We should move movie chat over to screen jam, Ben, in deference to Jon - cut and paste that one over there?

I wonder if those schookids in the crowd today are squirming and asking their teachers, "Why is the game so boring?"

who is hurt? watching on gameday

who got hurt?

[178] so far it's actually somewhat "interesting"

181 - And Dan Uggla made it boring again.

They were just being precautionary with Lowe after he knocked down that ball up the middle. I think Grady wanted to just give him time to get back into his rhythm. Which, after that base hit, you wonder if he's still not in...

for those of you who are at work the trivia question was, who holds the Dodger record for most pitch hit homeruns & as i suspected Dave Hansen holds that record with 13

ah, spoke too soon. darn gameday lag.

I think Grady saw this coming but couldn't stop it.

That was a beautiful double play turned by Martinez and Valdez, after Ramon's sweet grab of that shot. Lowe got really lucky in that inning.

what a great great double play by Martinez to Wilson Valdez!.

Culmination. This goes all the way back to Jon's comment about having Martinez and Valdez in there. Lets score some runs now!

186 - saw what?

We will need a run at some point.

Sounds like Lowe has a good sinker working, I don't think either club has been thrilled with any of umpires when they have worked behind the plate.

120 189 I have to say Jon's statement looks downright prescient.
Is Valdez known for defense?

193 He'd better be. He's not known for offense.

190 I just meant the hard hit base-hits following the one up the middle that Lowe knocked down and then became distracted. But he got out of it.

I predict that Pierre will win the game on an inside the park bunt home run.

I think I am shifting my attention from replacing Juan Pierre in center with Kemp to replacing Gonzo with Kemp. Maybe Juan needs to be the leadoff spot this year instead of in the 2 hole. Maybe we try Furcal there? As others mentioned maybe we are getting what we will be getting out of Juan (he will be a little better I belive when he calms down a little) and even though not my style he does do some things out there that are pretty good. Gonzo though, I see no upside.

The odds of both pitchers going 9 in this game are not bad right now.

It is ridiculous that both pitchers are on a complete game pace. Take a pitch already.

True enough.

Actually at this rate, they could both go 9 without a complete game.

197 ...or 11, even.

I know it is early but how long since we played a game in less than 2 hours?

196

Except that he is leading the D's in HRs.

Lowe's doing well for the unusual approach of starting every inning and most batters with a ball. This is not really sarcasm, for it seems he works his way up into the strike zone. Its better than starting in the middle of the plate and moving that sinker down, I bet.

196 I think Pierre returning to leadoff is a fine idea. Its not like Furcal is putting up numbers that would make him completely unmovable from the spot.

Well, Lowe seemed fine that inning.

Both pitchers have thrown 53 pitches. Mitre has thrown more strikes than Lowe (33 vs. 29).

5 innings and almost identical numbers for both pitcher- 2 hits ; 0 runs; 2 walks and 53 pitches each.

Pierre works the count full!

So long as the option of Pierre batting 8th is off the table, I don't see much harm in moving him to leadoff, if he'll perform better there.

Hi everybody. Just now logged on.

Jon - I am so glad you said something in your "Saito" opener about his smile. He may be 37 years old, but that smile lights up his face with the joy and enthusiasm of a young kid. I love it.

I was going to write the above comment last night when Sammy won the game, but I got distracted. Thanks for reminding me.

...and a line drive base hit! This is a great game for Juan - one of his best so far as a Dodger.

I'm sensing a hit and run.

212 A walk and no fly balls - who spoke with him after the game?

Pierre-3 PA's; 3 times on base + a SB.

215 Unfortunately the Dodgers didn't bring him home in the first.

Is Pierre having a good game?

Yah!

make that two SB for Mr. Pierre.

wow nomar, thats pretty bad.

I guess Nomar wasn't going to hit .700 with RISP all year.

Gah - one out, gotta get that guy home.

Pierre's doing all he can today, I'll give him that. Unfortunately, the Dodgers are hitting like they think the bases are loaded.

220 I would have settled for a fly ball.

Twice Mitre has jammed batters (Martin and Nomar with Pierre in scoring position).

Are they seriously pitching around Gonzo here?

225 To get to Ethier? Was that a pitch-around?

[210] i find the notion that a batter's performance changes in any meaningful way depending on what spot they are in the order to be highly dubious.

Make em pay, Andre.

I do think for a pitcher like Lowe, the fast pace of the game helps keep in rhythm.

227 Sounds like a SABR study to me.

pathetic.

Pleh.

It's Bizarro Day. Juan Pierre is the bulk of the offense.

Wow. Hello 2003.

Mitre is nowhere near this good of a pitcher, must be hard to hit in these "morning" games.

234 - Come on guys, every team has a bad day and we are resting two front of the order starters. We scored 4 or more runs the last 3 days in a row. 2003 was much, much worse than this.

227 I agree. It's likely not to make any difference at all.

That said, he's likely not to do any worse, and I could be wrong about the upside of moving him. If the worst case scenario is that it would make no difference, why not give it a shot -- so long as we don't expect it to be the panacea that will solve everything?

Your 2007 Dodger Offense. Not nearly as bad as 2003.

One of the worst things about MLB.tv is not being able to choose which teams' broadcast to watch. Four straight days of having to watch the Marlins' telecasts is making me nauseous.

No wonder nobody in Miami likes baseball.

236 Point taken. Just blowing off steam. :)

Despite Pierre getting to third with one out, we couldn't score him. But I am afraid this is a pretty accurate view of our offense if you take away Kent and Furcal.

Looking at San Diego, down 2-0 in the first, you wonder how long they can keep David Wells in the rotation. ERA close to 6, BAA is .336

Hanley Ramirez is so good. I cant believe he turned out this good.

We have some nice pinch-hitting options this game, if the situation calls for it.

237- You have a conflict of interest here, Mr. OutWatch.

239
You got that right! If enough of us write MLB will they get us Dodgers broadcasters?

234 Seriously. I saw him play at AA (Portland). I thought he had no business playing short in the major leagues, but what do I know.

This might have been the wrong day for Jon's "Betemit is back" column.

Just checking in while on break from a very boring training class. wow, Betemit, Valdez, Martinez, Lowe and Pierre all batting in a row. No wonder why we are getting shutout by Sergio. Probably will take a solo shot by our 3-4-or-5 hitter to win this game 1-0. vr, Xei

249 or the 2 hitter.

Pierre leading off

Over the past couple of days I seem to be noticing more than a few calls for Pierre to be moved up to the leadoff spot and I thought it necessary to point out the prior to today's game his OBP SLG OPS from the lead off position are .225 .237 .462 in 38 at bats.

248 Maybe he'll hit a slam in the top of the ninth to win it.

To be clear, I'm not calling for Pierre to bat leadoff. I'm saying, relative to his batting second, it won't hurt us that much.

On another note, is anyone else concerned that Martin is playing too much. I know he's young and spry, but a catcher is a catcher. I thought Lieberthal was here for a reason.

Assuming someone scores a run, this game might be over before my 11 o'clock meeting.

Orlando Cabrera?

253 Martin did have 2 days off last week.

I would guess that he will have a day off over the weekend.

Martin is definitely being over played. You cant catch every game and not pay the price at some point. Really bothers me.

Lowe today:
Ground outs-fly outs: Lowe 11-2

Good to get Cabrera out of the way there. Hopefully that's his last AB of the game.

253
Lieberthal said after his last start that he knew that he wasn't going to be starting much and that Martin was a catcher like Jason Kendall in that he will start nearly every day.

Fortunately, Martin hits a wee bit better than Jason Kendall.

How many times is Charlie Steiner going to call MIGUEL Cabrera, ORLANDO Cabrera. About the only similarity besides last name is that they both play the left side of the infield. Next thing you know he'll be calling him Jolbert Cabrera.

Seriously, though, is there anything worse than listening to Steve Lyons? I guess it COULD be worse...at least we don't have to deal with Tim McCarver.

I miss Vinnie.

Okay, pinch hitter or keep Lowe in?

261
Seriously, though, is there anything worse than listening to Steve Lyons? I guess it COULD be worse...at least we don't have to deal with Tim McCarver.

Comedy. I couldn't have said that any better myself. Tim McCarver is the devil.

KEEP LOWE IN

262 - I'll take Furcal leading off the 8th, thanks. Great outing by Lowe.

262 I'd leave him in.

Lowe is doing his best Maddux impersonation.

Steve Lyons made a great point in that Sergio Mitre (sp) is in "uncharted water" right now as far as pitch count goes so maybe the Dodgers will get something going this up coming inning. veremos.

261 There's something worse... listening to Mark Grace call Broxton "big", or women sitting at the bar "babes"

262 - I leave him in. He could easily pitch 3 more innings at the rate he's going, and he is leading off not coming up with me on. Luckily, Grittle agrees with me.

262 Keep Lowe in. Only 73 pitches, rest the pen and hope to scratch out a run soon.

Maybe I'm just stung by the Mike Piazza/Paul Loduca experience.

Relying on catcher for offense + starting every day = crummy month of September.

I know Martin held up fine last year, but at his age, and with a limited track record, I'd want to err on the side of caution.

265 - Guess not. I would've considered leaving him in if it were a bunt situation. But leading off the eighth in a scoreless game, considering the bench LA has today? Hmm...

Good chance to rest the pen though. I'll allow it :)

272 - Maybe one of these years, we won't need our catcher to be great in September to win a division. We can dream.

The Dodgers could use you on base today, though Benaiah.

Those pitches look fat on ESPN gameday.

276 I wish they look fat to Martin.

275 - "me" equals "men" in 270. I had to read your comment about 5 times before I understood it.

Martin is on pace to start at C about 139 games, which seems a little too much to me. Therein lies the rub of having a catcher as one of your best hitters - he has to rest a certain amount. Maybe he can DH most of the games in AL parks.

With his pitch count, Lowe could throw a 10 inning shutout. Hopefully, he'll only need a shutout of the 9 inning variety.

I think we have seen the last of Sergio for today. His ERA must have dropped a lot.

274 2004 would be that year, but I'm dreaming bigger. I want our catcher to be great in the playoffs so we can get to the World Series!

I find Lowe's sudden string of airball outs disturbing.

Fredi looking for lightning to strike twice.

281 - It dropped 0.99 runs. Now at a very impressive 2.13.

Those pitches look fat on ESPN gameday.

Mitre just had the Dodgers # today. You have to see the Dodger hitters against him to understand what i'm talking about, he's out of the game now so let's see what we do against a new arm from the Marlins.

238 two hits and one fly over the last two innings, plus one out in the 8th doesn't seem like a "string" to me.

If we make 2 quick outs in the 9th, I say we punt.

287 ... and a K.

282 - Well, we'd like to avoid trading our starting catcher in order to have a well-rested one in September.

I've never been more depressed by a 0-0 game.

286 Plus we have the B lineup out there. No Kent or Furcal.

Tony Jackson, just a bit jaded:

"This game is so boring that I just spent the past 10 minutes ordering a pair of noise-canceling headphones with my American Express rewards points."

We need a run here. I don't want Cabrera to win it in the ninth.

... and a grounder. Great work from Lowe today.

291 - Yeah, but Mitre has 4 Ks and 3 BB in 8 innings. The Dodgers were a tad unlucky today and this is our "B" squad. Cheer up.

Mitre's ERA dropped by 0.99

LOOGY in, what will Grady go? Kent for Ethier, Olemedo for Betemit?

294 Marlins ain't winning it in the 9th with the way Lowe is dealing. But we need a run. We don't want to go to the pen.

Come on Luis, lets wrap this game up. Make that money.

This and Olmedo type of situation....

If Gonzo walks, do you pinch run Furcal?

You have to assume that Grady doesn't PH for LuGo.

Nomar looks miserable this year. He has been considerably worse than Pierre, though at least he was hitting in the clutch. I hope that he goes on the DL soon and Loney gets his chance to play Gehrig.

302 Point is moot.

PH here brings in a righty, methinks.

you can't let gonzo run if he gets on...

Let's go Olmedo.....

303 Pinch hit and pinch run are two completely different things.

... or not.

Looks like Lowe might go 10, then...

Brad Penny and Rafael Furcal doing the Rally Mummy....and it doesn't work

Grady Little is Jim Tracy like in his fawning adoration of veterans. He is more flexible and willing to bench someone who is slumping, but he would never pinch hit for the less productive Nomar in that situation.

Looks like the guys are trying to make outs quickly and get on an early flight out of there. Only problem is someone has to score.

Padres rally in Atlanta

311 You think that they would let Lowe hit again?

311 You think that they would let Lowe hit again?

Lowe has only thrown 83 pitches.

The Marlins 1-2-3 is pretty frightening. With Josh Beckett dealing this year, do you think the Red Sox regret trading Hanley Ramirez?

316 - The decision only makes more sense if the game goes into extra innings.

309 sorry, 303 was unclearly following on to 298.

If Lowe gets through the 9th in 10 pitches or less, I'd leave him in.

If there ever was a time for a DP grounder....

322 Looks like that might not matter.

I am terrified.

GAH! 323 written before the E5.

Um, so did we learn something the other night? Pitch around Cabrera!

325 You are not alone.

325 You are not alone.

Walk the bases loaded?

You have to go Saito now, hope for the K.

And 327 written before the 1-3! Was that a dribbler?

Rats.

330 Yes. That's textbook, no?

That really bites.

Yeah, looked like the Dodgers tanked this one. They wanted no part of it; looks like they're content with the split and an early flight back home.

walk the bases loaded, then pray for a DP?
vr, Xei

Fish heart Willingham.

What is going on? Going to the bullpen? IBB? I cant see anything.

You walk the leadoff hitter and it comes back to bite you.

Ugh. I'm not sure I understand why you don't set up a double play by walking Willingham.

well seeing that didn't feel to good.

Misery. 341 is on the money.

HOLY HECK GRADY - you don't pitch to that guy! You IBB him with first open and pitch to Aaron "in decline" Boone!

339 3-run blast by Willingham.

First CG Dodger loss since
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2005/B09170SFN2005.htm

September 17, 2005 in San Francisco by Jeff Weaver.

Ugh. The only thing that can make this feel worse...yep, there it is, the Marlins annoucers screaming "It's Hammer time! It's Hammer time!"

Alright, let's get home and start winning in SoCal.

Thanks, Wilson.

YOU. FAIL.

337. Or go for the 3-run HR. And appeal the runners missed home plate.
vr, Xei

Leadoff walk, plus error = bad news. Our defense really seems to be costing us games.

Why, Betemit, why?

That is a terrible, terrible decision by Grady. That is a no brainer, IBB to Willingham. This outcome looks the worst, but really a deep fly ball is the same thing. At least with him on first you have a chance to end the inning without throwing home.

330 Yes. The only runner that matters to the offense is the lead runner, but the defense can retire any of them. The only reason I can think of not to walk them loaded in that case is righty-lefty stuff.

And yes, not walking Willingham was really, really dumb.

I can't wait to hear the explanation on that one.

Was Jim Tracy the Dodgers guest manager today? vr, Xei

343 And your 330. And my agreement in 334. Etc.

341

I thought that's what Grady went to tell Lowe. Guess not.

Time of game is a crisp two hours and change.
Getaway day indeed.

Ugh, indeed. I'm so glad I made it into the office in time to see the bottom of the ninth. Whee! So, leave Lowe in there, pitch to the hitter with runners on 2nd and 3rd. Yeah, Grady's brain was already on that plane back to LA.

Too bad, Lowe pitched a good game, too. This offense today was just... offensive.

First, teams always look tired when they don't score.

Second, Grady is going to have to figure out if he needs another arm in the pen, preferably someone who can throw more than one inning.

Betemit's error hurt because if it is runner on second and two out, Lowe doesn't have to pitch to Willingham.

Tough trip, going 3-4 when they could have won 3 more games. Starters actually pitched pretty well during the trip.

Fun exercise after the early and quick game: Let's plaster Tony Jackson's blog with angry comments!

I missed this game - was Mitre really that "on" or was our offense really bad.

353 But Boone is righty also and the Marlins had no LH bats left (other than Dontrelle)

357 Grady probably asked Lowe if he could retire Willingham. Lowe told him he could get him, and Grady beileved him. Then Grady got burned. Again.

Grady left Pedro in the game too long today.
vr, Xei

If there was any chance of Betemit holding on to the third base job, I'm assuming that 0-3 and a ridiculous error killed it.

Unpack, Andy. Stay a while.

Grady loves to double switch and do crazy lefty right matchups, but if you can't manage the simplest aspects of the game then what good are you? He went out to the mound and said what? "Don't give up any runs or we lost ok?" "Hey, I gotta 7 pm back in LA, do you mind wrapping this one up?"

362. Look at the starting lineup!
vr, Xei

I really dont get that. You either go for the K with Saito or Broxton or you set up the Lowe DP with a walk. How does the desition to have Lowe pitch to the guy get reached? Very odd.

To Grady's credit, I'm surprised he made such a bad decision.

Question: was the E5 in the ninth on a double play ball?

369. Exactly! Lowe is a groundball pitcher, which makes it even more of a no-brainer.
vr, Xei

363
I guess Grady still has Aaron Boone nightmares.

360 He didn't have to pitch to Willingham anyway. The E5 hurts because Lowe had to pitch to Cabrera, but he got him.

360 Do tell why Lowe has to pitch to Willingham with 2nd and 3rd, one out.

367 - I had typos in both quotes, so obviously I am worked up. The offense was bad, and probably an IBB still ends the same way, but I put the loss on Grittle's head anyway. The average little leaguer knew what to do in that situation.

Or better yet, let's go crazy, Broadway style!

373 - I wonder if Grittle really did try and avoid Aaron Boone. "Fool me once, shame on you... but if I fool myself the second time, then at least I am not a lead story on Sports Center."

betemit sure didn't buy himself much extra playing time with today's performance.

Again, its always execution and right now, this is a team that is going to be not perfect but because they don't hit the long ball, they need everything to work.

A leadoff walk, an error, not moving a runner to scoring positon, not driving in a runner on a third with less than two out, those are things this team needs to execute in order for them to win most games.

Willigham is such a greedy stat-padder. A real ballplayer would have hit a sac fly.

Can someone who saw it describe the E5 and the Cabrera 1-3? Were either a DP opportunity?

352
I totally agree with your post. Even with the IBB, i think the odds are still with the Dodgers losing in that situation. That said, I think the IBB improves the Dodgers chances of escaping the jam.

Does anyone have access to how the win expectancy changes with or without the IBB?

Then Grady got burned. Again.

It was a no brainer, Betemits error for a crisp double play also hurt but we must understand that Betemit was a little rusty so i'm not to P.O'd about that one.

I hope this game was a going away party for a few unnamed infielders.
vr, Xei

382
Neither had a chance of being a DP. Betemit should have still gotten one out though.

362Hmmm. Furcal had the day off (?) Nomar and Betemit have taken the season off. What's going on with Ethier? We know he's a better hitter than that (?) And losing in a game where Pierre was lading off and was hitting... I guess the stars were not aligned.

387 Ethier was hitting .292/.340/.458 coming into this game. I don't think you can ask for much more from him.

The funny thing is, the "book" on what to do in that situation is an IBB to load the bases. You might not give out an IBB to bring up Pujols or someone like that, but Boone? It's like Grady was trying to build up his "against the grain" street cred or something.

The Dodgers have forgotten how to string victories together. Only once in the last two-and-a-half weeks have they so much as won back-to-back games.

Their last three losses on this road trip were all imminently winnable. Maybe getting back home will be good for what ails them. Still, a pretty disappointing road trip.

Errors happen. Not a good time for that one to happen, granted, but they happen. It's what you to do erase them that count and in the ninth the Dodgers blew it. The stars weren't aligned and neither were the coaches brains, apparently. Ah well, time to move on, go home and wake up the offense.

352 381 To left or center, the fly wouldn't have to be all that deep....

[388] you think his ceiling is around an .800 OPS?

383- Chances of the home team's winning increase by 3.8% with the bases loaded, over just second and third.

393 Pretty much.

Plays that hurt the Dodgers chances today.

1. Martin popping up with Pierre on secound in the first.
2. Gonzo hitting into a first pitch double play.
3. Nomar popping up with Pierre on third and one out.
4. Leadoff walk by Lowe in the 9th.
5. Error by Betemit on a force play ground ball in the 9th.
6. Fat pitch to Willingham for homer.

The Dodgers could have a 2 runs today by just doing a couple of things and they could still be playing if Betemit cleanly fields the groundball.

394 - There is no way that is true. I think the run expectancy might go up, but no way it is more likely to score when there is a force at every base.

383. Just looked it up. The results scream small sample size and are probably all within the margin of error. Home teams chances of winning given a 0-0 game in the bottom of the 9th are.

Runners at:
2nd and 3rd: 79.6%
Loaded: 83.4%
Third only: 83.1%
1st and 3rd: 83.8%

According to this, Grady did the right thing, but it's all likely within the margin of error, or what I'd call noise. It was basically a lose-lose situation in my mind, but I am going to go against the calculator and say our chances of losing would've been slighter with the IBB. You do setup the double play, but you also setup the walk in the winning run. Who knows. vr, Xei

To anyone who notes that Valdez has won three games for us, this is the downside. All the days where he is a complete cipher and never gets a chance to show off his magic bunting skills.

393 What do you think it is, Vishal? I'm with Andrew, .800 is about as good as it's going to get.

If only he played center...

394/397 - I would think that a walk ending the game with the bases loaded has something to do with it.

397 But a walk, HBP, catcher's interference all drive in the run.

386 Thanks. BTW, Tony Jackson says, "Betemit botched Dan Uggla's DP grounder..."

398 - I guess that is true, you do set up the possibility of a BB in, still, at least a groundball doesn't have to be played home to win in that situation. Especially with Lowe being such an extreme GB/FB pitcher.

397 I think it might be sample size based. How often is the home team even allowed to have second and third and one out, bottom of the ninth in a tie game? The walk is automatic in that situation.

401. It's most likely noise, because a runner at third only is better than a runner at both second and third and that doesn't make much sense. When the results are this close and the sample size this small, it's most likely noise. vr, Xei

394 397 The sample size is much larger for bases loaded situations. I sense a SSSW for the second and third situations.

405 The walk is automatic in that situation.

Uh, not today.

406 Then throw in extreme groundball pitcher and hefty dropoff from current batter to on-deck batter.

I think in the IBB vs loading up the bases and risking the BB,HBP,PB,WP scenario the tie-breaker would probably be what type of hitters do you have up and what type of pitcher do you have pitching. If you are going to go with Lowe, who has good control and is a groundball pitcher, why not go with the IBB to setup the double play. Then on the otherhand you have to take into consideration if Willingham hits alot of fly balls, groundballs or strikes out alot. I would've either stayed with Lowe and given the IBB or brought in a strike out pitcher like Saito or Broxton (mentioned earlier in the thread) and gone for the strike out.
vr, Xei

As a stat-head, I will say that this is a situation that calls for deductive reasoning over precedent. Groundball pitcher on the mound, need two outs, one run ends the game, open base, all lead to the inevitable conclusion that walking Willingham is the right move. That or bringing in Saito, who K's about 50% of all the batters he faces.

Games like this probably leads Ned and Grady to think about adding a pitcher.

As well Hendrickson has pitched, he seems to be the type that could go 2 or more innings at least twice a week.

The problem is that the starters, while pitching slightly more, still have hard time going into the 7th, so that's 3 or more innings a game and since Seanez is destined only for blowouts or when the Dodgers are behind, that leaves Chad, Beimel, Broxton, Saito, and Tsao with only Chad and maybe Beimel having the ability to go more than one inning.

The pitching staff is in limbo, waiting to see what happens with Schmidt, if he is able to come back then, I could see Hendy in the pen, Chad or Kuo in the rotation and Tomko, if he keeps pitching like he is doing right now, being nice trade material.

[400] well, he was at .842 last year over 400 at-bats, including an injury-related slump for most of the 2nd half... i'd like to think he could reproduce something similar to that when he's healthy.

409. Yep. Partially covered in 410.
vr, Xei

This has got to be the end of the Wilson Valdez era, no? Between the two Wilsons, I'm about fed up.

I'm putting all my Wilson Pickett records in storage to protest.

Well at the very least I would suspect this game should help precipitate some roster moves, if they were not already on the way.
Starting 3 utility infielders is just not going to get it done.

Anybody actually watch the end to this game?
vr, Xei

[415] or you could conduct a wilson picket outside dodger stadium...

418
Don't wait till the midnight hour to set that up.

415 - I am not done with Betemit, but if Valdez is still on the roster next week then I am... complaining here I guess.

415 Are you at least keeping your Wilson Phillips LPs?

417 Yes, unfortunately.

418 Good work. Very nice.

I wouldn't be so upset if not for Betemit's error. If only Wilson could pick it.

Lowe usually walks the guy in that situation anyway. Grady should've forced his hand by IBB'ing him, but from what I've seen from Lowe over the years is that he is constantly looking to set up the double play.

Runner on 2nd with less than 2 outs and first base open is almost always a walk from Lowe. It's usually 4 sinkers, low and away.

421. was Betemits error a double play ball?
vr, Xei

But on another matter, does anyone want an apple fritter? I bought one at Starbucks because I thought my staff really liked them. But it turns out they were just talking about apple fritters a lot because they HATE them.

So, I have a white elephant apple fritter.

420 Brazoban for Valdez during the homestand is my prediction.

413 True, Ethier is entirely capable of producing an .850+ OPS. But, he's very batting average dependent, so I don't think you can be disappointed with an .800 OPS.

422 Unfortunately it became more like a night associated with Bobby "Boris" Pickett.

(BTW RIP to him, died 4/26/07
http://tinyurl.com/yvm2c8)

I know a lot of people say Valdez should be gone, but why not Lucille II? He is older, more expensive, less upside, etc.

424 Tony Jackson says yes, Westernmost in Flavor says no.

420 I'm not giving up on Betemit either...As a pinch hitter/ utility guy at second and third base. A guy with his ability, some power, is an incredible assest off the bench.

But I'm over Betemit at third. Not that I was ever under it.

Lowe pitched a game with a game score of 66 and took the loss.

Coming into today, the highest game score for a Dodger starter in a game where the Dodgers lost was, well, Randy Wolf's start on Sunday, at 58.

But you have to score in order to win.

429 My argument is that he's a better hitter, he has the same upside (none), and that you have to pay his contract even if you release him.

431 He's also an asset. In addition to being an assest.

He's very versatile like that. Ugh.

Of course, of all the players that played poorly, you could say that Betemit was the assest today.

I'm done.

424
I was watching the game. I don't think Betemit could have turned two on that play.

425 Only if you can fax the fritter here.

426 I agree.

429 They seem to love Martinez. And he is a solid utility infielder. He's usually a better hitter than his average shows right now. The problem, as many of us have pointed out, is having he and his younger clone Valdez makes no sense right now. If they're going to stick with 12 pitchers, it would be better to add Matt Kemp instead of Valdez/Martinez, to add some offense.

Better to be an asset than 60% of an asset.

It will be a long plane ride home for the team. I'm attending tomorrow, so I hope they come out fired up.

425 I love 'em. Will you deliver to El Segundo?

437 If they go to 12 pitchers AND you want Kemp up, two position players have to depart. Who are you suggesting?

430
Let me clarify. It was not a tailor-made double play ball because it was a fairly soft hit. A great play might have gotten the double play but imho I didn't think the Dodgers would have turned it.

438 I am going to the game too, and I sit right behind home plate in the infield reserve section.

If you want some DT poster chat, let me know.

I'll be there as well, however I'll be busy tending to my nosebleed in the top deck.

420
Your complaint reminds of the "Seinfeld" episode where Kramer's futile attempts to get the postal service to stop delivering junk mail to address finally lead him to blurt out: "Oh, that's it! They have gone too far! They keep pushing me and pushing me. Now I got no choice but to go down there ... and talk to them."

Maybe Jeff Weaver is getting paid by the run.

In 6 starts he has given up 7 runs twice, 6 runs three times (including today) and 3 runs but that was in 3 innings of work. He now has an ERA over 14.

437
Apple fritters lose their flavor when being faxed.

But if anyone wants it, speak up now.

...although I might be able to find time to chuck a beach ball down to you. :)

443 We can always talk UCLA recruiting. :)

Part of the apple fritter has been spoken for, aka consumed.

442 I'm in IF reserved too, don't know where, the tix are at will call. I'll be there with the family. My e-mail is my handle with the spaces removed at yahoo dot com.

I was watching the game. I don't think Betemit could have turned two on that play.

it depends on who was running i thought he had a 50/50 chance on converting it & at least getting the head runner.

449 simultaneous use of trachea and esophagus, nice.

440 No, sorry, I meant if they decide to not add an extra pitcher then they should replace Valdez with Kemp. Otherwise it will likely be Valdez for Brazoban or Kuo. Yeah, I don't know who else could go if they want to add another position player unless someone else gets hurt. La Roche has options of course, but it seems he isn't going anywhere for awhile. So it's going to take an injury, or a trade.

Jrue Holliday has narrowed his choices to Washington and UCLA according to LA Times.

His mother is going to contact Howland to set up a visit.

Holliday is the 2nd or 3rd best player in the 2007-2008 class.

This announcement came out during the game so I guess again karma for one spoiled karma for the other.

446 449 E-mail the rest to me.

454 Getting Holliday, fresh off getting Gordon, would be unbelieveable.

And then there's that Love fella we nabbed. Good times in Westwood.

454
He is for sure second best and I really think he is going to choose UCLA. Romar dropped the ball big time. Having that bad of a year and he is already going to lose Hawes and I think Pondexter and Brockman may be gone after next year. Jrue wants to play for a winner and be surrounded by talent.

Just read the LA Times write-up on today's game and noticed the story about the NFL wanting to add a 17th game and have each teams extra game be played outside the US. Getting rid of one of the pre-season games seems like the best route to take. vr, Xei

[456] ugh, how depressing.

San Diego loses third straight to Atlanta, going home to face the Cards.

Dodgers and Padres both go 3-4 on the road.

442 If only my DT t-shirt had already arrived.... ;)

lol I am really happy Holiday has already decided to spurn Roy. Tired of that guy grabbing California recruits.

461
I totally forgot about my shirt.

Jon, you might want to check out Joe Sheehan's column in BP today, he could have taken is argument about relievers from last year's DT column.

Espn rates the "pitchers you'd pay to watch." No Dodger starter made the list, and then no Dodger reliever made the list. Apparently people would rather see Trevor Hoffman and Francisco Corredero than Saito and Broxton. Ugly. Broxton > Zumaya, especially now that the Guitar Hero hero is hurt.

465 - http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2865873

Man, there was a game on? I didn't even know. Looks like my boy Pierre was the lone bright spot today with half of the team's times on base and 2 steals. But it shows you value of small ball when he has one of his best games as a Dodger and produces no runs.

[462] california recruits should go to the university of california. :P

468 Ben Braun is very thankful that Tedford is there.

At least they are not claiming that their product in non-fat.

http://tinyurl.com/2sdfdl

Could be seeing Montgomery there after next season.

Even if the chances of winning that game really would have been better with the bases loaded and one out, it's not like they'd have been a whole lot better. Once you've got runners reached second and third it was very likely that the Dodgers were going to lose it. Not that it particularly excuses Grittle (was anybody up in the pen?), but I'm pretty sanguine about that game. You lose when you get shut out.

Even though they've been shut out twice in the past week, they're not on pace to be shut out more often this year than last. They are on pace to get shut out four or five fewer times than the 2003 team did.

469
I don't see how Tedford will stay if Berkeley keeps blocking the new stadium. Jim Bartko did a quick turnaround and came back to Oregon when he found out how bad things are. I expect Tedford to take the first legitimate offer he gets. He might be Mike Bellotti's replacement if Bellotti decides to hang it up anytime soon.

Going by Scout's ratings...

UCLA has three top 25 players players committed already. They will give out two more scholarships and most of their targets are also top 25 players. The 09' class is already looking like a potential power class, so UCLA could have back-to-back number 1 recruiting classes.

472 - 4 or 5 times doesn't sound like much, but I bet that is like 30-40% more than usual.

Times shutout by Year

2006- 9
2005- 9
2004- 12
2003- 13
2002- 13
2001- 8

476 - Since you lose 100% of all shutouts, 4-5 extra shutouts is pretty huge. I am surprised that there were so many shutouts in 2004. It must have been a feast or famine team with one great hitter and a bunch of average to slightly above average guys around him.

Who has bigger bragging rights, Benjie Molina for hitting two homers in one inning or Jose Molina stealing home as part of a double steal?

Letting Jose Molina steal home on you must be quite embarrassing.

New post up top.