I'm glad 3B got a little hot streak going before Colletti felt it necessary to acquire Phil Nevin or Vinny Castilla or somebody like that.

1
Or Troy Glaus.

Can we also give Ned some due props for our bullpen this season? Its pretty fantastic to date. I was at the game last night and the only thing that kept me interested was the bullpen keeping it close and not allowing any more runs than were graciously given away in the first few frames.

Ned has his foibles, but this 'pen is pretty great. Especially when you look at other GM's who have stellar reputations but fail at this task on a regular basis (see: Epstein, Theo).

Wow I need more coffee. I can't believe I wrote 'keeping it close' in the context of last night. You guys know what I was trying to say...

Jon's right. Our problem(s), as we knew all along, lie beyond the reaches of the infield.

Can we also give Ned some due props for our bullpen this season?

Not really.

Jonathan Broxton: Not Ned's acquisition
Takashi Saito: Ned's acquisition, but really just a matter of luck. Invite the guy to ST, he pitches well, you keep him. He doesn't pitch well, you don't keep him.
Chin-hui Tsao: See Saito
Rudy Seanez: Pointless
Chad Billingsley: See Broxton
Joe Beimel: See Saito

5
Beyond the infield?

I thought the parking situation had stabilized?

2007 Offensive VORPs:

LaRoche: 3.1
Wolf: 1.6
Schmidt: 1.2
Penny: 1.2
Lowe: 0.7
Pierre: 0.1

6 - I think Saito, Tsao and Beimel are examples of the right way to build a bullpen. Spending money on the pen is crazy.

6 I think that's a little unfair. He may have lucked into a good pen, but its a good pen nevertheless. He's responsible for at least 3 of the pitchers who are performing well.

8 That's pretty funny.

[6] come on man, you have to give ned at least SOME credit for saito, tsao, and beimel. plenty of people get invited to spring training all over baseball, but how many have the impact that these guys have had? maybe ned got lucky, but maybe he's inviting the right guys.

6 - Ned will get all the credit for Tomko pitching his way back into the pen.

He could, however, get back in good graces by releasing Tomko when his days in the rotation are over.

Page 2 throws out some random Dodger love:

• Nobody plays harder: Russell Martin.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=keown/070515&sportCat=nba

11 Yeah we could be in a position of Cincy or Baltimore - giving up decent players in trades or millions of dollars in exchange for mediocre middle relief.

More re 8 - I assume your recommending that one of the pitchers play centerfield :)

When you are in charge you get credit for everything good that happens and blamed for everything bad that happens. It does not matter if you had anything to do with it.

11/14 - Looks like he learned something from the Baez/Carter trade last year. I agree that he gets credit for having the right philosophy; the players and their respective successes are by-products.

3
Yes you can. He brought em in (Saito, Tsao, Beimel, Saenz) and they stuck so he gets the credit. He's quickly learned from his mistakes by trading Baez away, releasing Carter, and trading Dessens for a nice 4th OF.
Doesn't make up for 2/3 of our outfield but I'll give Ned credit for the Bullpen and the Infield.

I give Ned credit for approach to building the bullpen, not counting the Baez/Carter fiasco. Inviting a bunch of pitchers to spring training and keeping the ones who look like they can pitch seems to be the right way to go.

But this is the GM who thinks Juan Pierre gets on base an awful lot. I seriously doubt he had any special reason to think Saito and Beimel would excel any more than the players he invited who failed.

19cont.

Or what 17 said.

14 - That is the obvious counter-point, yes Ned just invited some people to Spring Training, didn't even let them make the team immediately, and then watched them outperform his wildest dreams (Sammy especially). However, loading up a bullpen with cheap high potential power guys is definitely the way to go. Since the Baez/Carter trade was done on his watch, I have to wonder if his penchant for having ten backup plans just worked out in the best way possible. Still, if I am going to burn him in effigy for Pierre, LuGo, Tomko and Loney then I will give him props for the bullpen.

Yeah I guess the point of my post is that we're all so quick to pile on Ned, we should at least give him some credit for the things he does right. Especially viewed in the rear view mirror of the performance of Cincy's pen from the series before. Ugh.

Seanez has actually been a lot better than Beimel this year, and I think that will continue. Beimel hasn't given up a HR and his BABIP is .247, yet his ERA is 3.9. If anything he is due to regress into a comfortable high 4, low 5 ERA. He is the only lefty in the pen though, so until Miller or Kuo are ready, he will stay around.

6

So any good result is either luck or someone else's doing?
IMO you cant just blow the Jaun Pierre whistle every time you want to say something negative about Colletti. Everyone is going to make good and bad moves, that's the nature of moves. I don't exactly see the league being lit up by former Dodgers.

24 Looking at the track records of Saito and Beimel, I'd say good fortune at least played part of a role in what they've done so far for the Dodgers.

23 - I should have noted: Beimel walks more batters than he strikes out and his GB% is way down this year. He is surviving by getting a lot of line drive and fly ball outs, which is like investing your retirement in lottery tickets.

Unghh, I'll check back tomorrow.

here are Yhency Brazoban's #'s from Vegas.

ERA 1.88
SAVES 2
INNINGS PITCHED 10
STRIKE OUTS 10
BATTING AVERAGE AGAINST HIM .147
BASES ON BALLS 3

The only thing i wonder is how hard is he throwing.

The Juan Pierre whistle gets blown here so often that it's beginning to be ignored as a nuisance (like a car alarm) rather than an actual threat (like an air raid siren).

29 - LOL.

24 Thing is, the Juan Pierre signing is the defining moment of Colletti's tenure with the Dodgers so far. It's the longest commitment he's made to any one player. Whether or not you agree with the signing (I am still on the fence), it's clearly the main ingredient in an analysis of Colletti's job performance.

This may just be wishful thinking. Ned has shown a willingness to cut his losses. Kemp is playing centerfield and batting second in Vegas. Does anyone think it's possible that Ned will leave Pierre in the starting lineup until June (when we can trade a free agent), and then dump Pierre for the best deal?

19 "I .seriously doubt he had any special reason to think Saito and Beimel would excel any more than the players he invited who failed."

I'm as much of a Colletti skeptic as anyone, but c'mon, don't be ridiculous. (Cue Balki accent.) By that standard, pretty much no GM in history would ever get credit for a good bullpen because a good bullpen almost always involves one or more guys who were a surprise.

This is the textbook example of Branch Rickey's maxim "luck is the residue of design." You invite a bunch of pitchers to camp who are flawed enough to be available, yet have enough potential to conceivably succeed. Such as a guy who's been good before, but comes cheaply because he got hurt (Tsao). Or a guy who's been good before, but comes cheaply because he's old and there are doubts whether his performance will translate to the US (Saito). Or a lefty with a good fastball who has yet to put it all together (Beimel).

Those guys are much better gambles than the retreads most teams invite to spring camp. And it's also a much better way to go about it than trading for a Scott Proctor or a Kyle Farnsworth. The way the bullpen is buit is entirely to Colletti's credit. He may not have known THOSE particular pitchers would emerge from the chaff -- no GM would. But he invited enough guys with potential that it was a near certainly that SOME of them would rise to the top.

Non-LAD venting: If the suns have 2 of their players suspended, I will be very very disappointed. A playoff series shouldn't be won that way - suspensions by sticking up for your captain. Horry should be gone for a game, but that's it. Bowen got lucky.

I watch every Dodger game. They do many things right. Watching Pierre bat followed by Nomar swinging at the first pitch, is wearing me down.

34 - Didn't Amare leave the bench during the ruckus? That's the one rule you can't break, even in the playoffs.

So when I went to Beimel's Baseball Cube page to refresh myself on his track record, these were the first two items offered me in an advertisement called "Shopping for Joe Beimel":

antigua tampa bay devil rays women's rhythm short
tampa ray devil rays infant cheerleader dress

Umm... ok.

You have to give credit to Colletti for his approach to the 2007 bullpen - he picked low-salary guys, and he picked the right guys. He seemed to learn from his Baez/Carter mistake. He got a little lucky, but he gave himself a chance to get lucky.

My main criticisms were 1) Seanez and 2) not cutting loose Hendrickson to take one more flyer on Gagne. Both of those criticisms are somewhat dubious right now, though who knows by season's end. But for the success the bullpen has had this year, Collletti deserves credit.

The way the bullpen is buit is entirely to Colletti's credit. He may not have known THOSE particular pitchers would emerge from the chaff -- no GM would. But he invited enough guys with potential that it was a near certainly that SOME of them would rise to the top.

If you can demonstrate to me that Ned intentionally invited a different overall caliber of pitcher to ST than did other GMs whose bullpens have not performed as well, then I will give him credit for the results. In the absence of such evidence, I'll continue to give him credit only for the approach.

In general, however, I feel more comfortable holding GMs accountable for the moves they make at the time they're made rather than for the results of those moves. If an acquired player unexpectedly underperforms or overperforms their prior history, I generally don't hold the GM accountable for that.

25 - Saito has been a little lucky, mostly in that his BABIP is .025 lower than it should be this year (though it was perfectly normal last year), but anyone who keeps the ball in the park, K's more than a batter per inning and more than four batters per walk is going to have a low ERA. His FIP ERA is 3.00 this year, but that is high entirely due to the 2 home runs he has given up. His GB% is up this year, and his BB% is down, so even with a slightly lower K rate (10.59 versus 12.29) Saito is still an elite pitcher. Beimel is lucky not to be sporting a 5 ERA, Saito's luck is the difference between a mid 2 ERA pitcher and a mid 1 ERA pitcher. Saito is great, Beimel is a liability.

34 36 Stoudamire had an excuse--he said he was heading for the scorer's table to sub in. A lame excuse, to be sure, but it'll give the NBA a reason not to suspend him.

41 - That's a relief. I didn't watch the game, but read the aftermath and assumed the NBA would be forced, albeit reluctantly, to suspend him. The Suns without Amare really have no shot against the Spurs.

The bullpen is partly good (Billingsley/Broxton) at the expense of the starting staff.

34 Yes, he did and I am being biased because I like Nash, but looking at the situation as a whole with the spurs' style of play thus far w/ physical play coupled w/ flagrant fouls, it's hard not to see it from Amare's perspective. For me, it would be different if the foul wasn't so obvious followed by Amare leaving the bench. I could understand suspending the latter then. I'm curious if leniency will be granted.

43 - That is a fair point, though I think Broxton is well suited for the pen. Hopefully Tomko's days are numbered as a starter.

Jay Howell could tell you a thing or two about leniency/lack of common sense regarding playoff suspensions.

40 I was referring to Saito's track record in Japan. When we first signed him, I compare him to Jorge Julio. If he could only be Jorge Julio in the NPB, I didn't think he'd stand much of a chance in America.

RIP Jerry Falwell
or something

47
Not to mention that Saito is now 37 years old, not exactly the age at which is seems reasonable for a GM to expect a pitcher to become a Dominant Closer in the MLB.

Link to a new SI.com column up top.

Tomko...Erickson...Ashby...Hamulack...
Carter...Hendrickson

Why must the Dodgers always have one or more these every year?

BTW: What does it mean that Saito has pitched -0.1 innings this year against the Braves...?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=6498

45 - I think Broxton is well suited for the pen

Could just be he's a good pitcher. His numbers as a starter compared favorably with Billingsley in the minors. Obviously, the pen was a quicker path to the majors, and it's hard to argue with his success. I just wonder what coulda been...

51 Doesn't just about everyone?

Considering Beimel is the only lefty in the bullpen he's faced a fair number of righties. Righties have 36 AB against him, lefties 26 AB. He has a 418 OPS against for lefties (803 righties), so he's still an excellent option as a specialist. I think most of damage against righties has come in mopup work, so I'd say he's been very effective where it matters. His OPS against in close and late situations is 524 (22 AB).

55 Very small sample size. So far Beimel's entire Dodger career falls under the umbrella of small sample size, which is why evaluating relievers is so hard.

53 45 I think he wanted to be a reliever. And why shouldn't he? It's less risky, and if you're elite (which he is) you can get paid just as much.

55 Hits it on the head. Beimel has been allowed to face a lot of right-handed hitters in garbage time situations, which has artificially inflated his ERA and other numbers. He has dominated lefty batters ever since joining the Dodgers and that aspect of his game remains strong.

Kudos to Jon for use of the compound word "Violet-blueberried."

Observations from last night:

1. It was good to see Martin get pulled after the 6th and let Lieberthal finish up. He needs some innings off and Mike needed a couple at bats.

2. Betemit had a homer and a base knock from the right side. A platoon with LaRoche is possible and Andy took some fly balls in the outfield in AAA, didn't he? That would leave Valdez a little more on the bubble.

3. Valdez is a good bunter. Other than that, he hasn't hit since Furcal has come back. I don't think he'll be on the roster next week.

4. Furcal is indeed back. Smashing the ball, looks healthy. Good to see. Lets Juan for Five bunt him over a lot.

5. Bills in the rotation makes sense to me. Send him to Vegas to stretch it out a bit and call up Yhency, then move Tomko to the pen after Bills can go five. I hate to see Tomko have to get hit hard in Anaheim before this move, but I see it coming. Schmidt is nowhere near ready and will go to a minor rehab before he starts in the bigs again I think. Yhency is ready and Bills is pitching well, would like to see him shutting down a lineup for six innings rather than pitching two late innings in an 8-1 game.

6. Kemp (and Brazoban too) is ready to help us now. If we are going with Betemit as a starter (twice now in three games) rather than playing LaRoche everday, Andy could head back or he could be platton guy at third and fifth outfielder. Andy has hit and looked good, but he might have been called up to motivate Wilson B and then get some more seasoning? If not, and they won't play him everyday, why hold Kemp in the minors with that same excuse that they want him to play everyday?

7. Gonzalez had runners on first and third with one out and hit into a DP. That would have been a big run if we were going to get back into it before the 9th innning. He might not be an everyday guy at age 39, had warning track power last night too. If we platooned him with Kemp and gave Kemp some starts in right and (gasp) center, we can play Kemp four games a week and have a potent bat on the bench to compliment Saenz. Gonzo would be healthy and strong when he did play.

8. Pulling Kent (not a bad move in a blowout) and letting Martinez finish up took away a guy who crushed two balls against Thompson earlier in the game. Martinez comes up with the bases drunk in the 9th rather than Kent. Who'd you rather have? Can't predict that when you make a move, but if we pulled Martin, maybe we should leave Kent in?

9. Saenz pinch hit for Nomar and doubled. But if Nomar batted and Saenz stayed on the bench, he could have pinch hit in the ninth when we got a look at the game. Did Grady mail it in too soon? Our bullpen held them for 7 innings and we had our chances to score. We could have come back last night, we outhit them 13 to 12.

10. Ten is an even number so this is number ten and unrelated. Did The Black Donnellys get canceled on NBC?

In case you haven't seen it already, Dodger Dog controversy duly noted:

http://tinyurl.com/ypesxo

First time. Long time.

I can report that the Dodger Thoughts shirts have arrived on the east coast. Very nice.

It's less risky, and if you're elite (which he is) you can get paid just as much.

Starters, even mediocre starters, get paid more than relievers do.

There's a reason why a Jeff Weaver will almost always make more than a Cla Meredith.

From Tony Jackson's blog, in a reply:
Grady said before the game today that this is NOT a platoon, that both guys are going to play a LOT, and that he might accomplish that by occasionally playing Betemit at 2B or SS and LaRoche in LF.

Grady seems to say a lot of things, and part of this is qualified with a "might", but, heck, we saw Wilson Valdez play CF, so strange things can happen. One thing seems certain, Grady hasn't given up on Betemit.

60 - 10, yes it was cancelled. The remainder of the episodes shot can be seen on NBC.com

65

do you know how many episodes were shot?

60 - Yes, "The Black Donnelly's" is canceled.

66 - 13 according to tv.com.

But Five Towns is alive and well.

New post at Screen Jam.

I left the office last night with Pujols coming up in the top of the first. By the time I got home, Seanez was allowing his lone inherited runner to score and the route was on. But radio-induced doldrums were short-lived because my Dodger Blue DT T-shirt was awaiting my arrival and it looks fantastic - thanks Jon and helpers! Had stuff to do, so I read last night's game chat this morning with coffee; even though it accompanied a blowout, I missed a good one, complete with Booze Thoughts!

61 I will refrain from commenting until poster Westernmost in Flavor opines.

60 Thanks for that report! And the first-hand observations. Sorry you had to be there in person for that one but sounds like you got something out of it. I also like the phrase "bases drunk" - never heard that before for some reason.

I think Grady's just having fun, or being stubborn, with semantics because whether it's a platoon or the two of them switching off, it's pretty close to the same thing.

We've all been on the Valdez DFA-watch for awhile now, I wonder how much longer they'll go, but I'd bet on next week, too.

I hope the Dodgers don't send Bills down at this point. Just start 'em here imho - he couldn't do worse than Tomko. If he can only go 4-5 innings to start, fine, if they're solid innings at least.

Does a manager violate the principle animating Rule 9 by bringing in a defensive replacement in the late innings of a no hitter?

61
"It won't change my habit of eating Dodger Dogs," said John Kenn, 48, a real estate broker from Los Angeles who was incredulous when informed of the activists' charges. "I love animals, but this is ridiculous."

Actually, John Kenn, claiming to love animals but being indifferent to their treatment is what's ridiculous. If you love animals so much, but no so much that you won't eat them, why not prefer a hot dog made from animals that were treated relatively well over a hot dog made from animals that weren't?

As good as our pitching has been it could be scary good come August when Lowe is at his best.
Lowe/Wolf/Schmidt/Penny/Billingsly just like we envisioned with Saito/Broxton/Tsao/Beimel/Meloan/Kuo throwing it down in the bullpen.

Maybe you misunderstood what he means when he said, "I love animals."

{74] Maybe he meant "I love animals. They taste so good."

Doh!

74

People who make that comment are talking about their dogs. Usually their hunting dogs.

As Janeane Garofalo said, "It's OK to love your pets. Just don't LOVE your pets."

74 - "I love animals, but" is the equivalent of "I have a lot of black friends, but." It is a preface to a statement that makes the preceding phrase ridiculous and insulting. I eat meat, but I think it is deplorable how we get meat to the table in the Western world.

60

we have some options for our pen in Brazo & Meloan for the stretch run.

Anyone read that story about Griffey and the jock strap when the Reds played LA recently? My respect for him only increases for his sense of humor:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2870769

79
LA real estate broker:hunting dog owner :: Brett Tomko:quality starts

81 - So my point is: I'm a hypocrite. I try to go to Whole Foods when I can, but usually it is too expensive or not convenient.

74

I agree. If petitions were signed and sent to Farmer John's and the Dodgers, there would be a change in how the animals are treated. That is assuming that there is real evidence of mistreatment. Most people would care a bit more than the guy quoted. They would still eat their dogs, but the tuna fish industry got changed by vocal animal rights groups. BTW, I'm vegetarian would love if a tofu dog was sold at the stadium. Or anything of substance other than Nachos and Cheese Pizza (I'm lacto veg). I know, I know, animal by products, etc.... All are personal choices.

If petitions were signed and sent to Farmer John's and the Dodgers, there would be a change in how the animals are treated.

I wish this were true, but I believe it would not happen this way. I believe changes will happen only if (a) their choice to treat animals poorly started affecting them with fewer sales, or (b) there were an avalanche of negative publicity (which, so far, has not occurred).

I do not believe that signed petitions would do the trick. I would love to be wrong about this.

I am actually replying to the last thread. As often happens, the off-tangents helped take my mind off the somewhat forgetable game last night.

Actor John Barrymore was fond of absinthe.

Re: Mowing, agreed. I was taking a walk Sunday, and a pregnant neighbor
was out mowing their lawn. Seemed odd at first, then I thought,
"well, good exercise I guess." Then, I felt happy that I don't have
a lawn now. Which isn't as bad as it sounds - - large deck, several
trees, and a huge expanse of grass right next door.

58 We sure could have used a guy like that in the first round series against the Mets last year. (salt salt, rub rub)

I'm vegetarian would love if a tofu dog

How are those things? I've recently sampled veggie burgers and the like, but haven't made to to tofu dogs (or "not dogs" as I like to call them). In general, by experience thus far with soy products has been more positive than I was expecting. Soymilk is good, and pan-fried tofu in noodle dishes is downright yummy.

86 My verging on vegetarian student spotted some sort of veggie Dodger dog at the concession stands Friday night.

90 I agree in general about soy products, but not soy cheese.

Soy cheese needs to be returned to the gates of hell from whence it came. It is not cheese, nor is it a reliable substitute for cheese, nor is it anything resembling the deliciousness that is the amazing thing we call cheese.

In short, I don't like it.

73 - Nope.

I just got sent the link to the MySpace page on the Griffey thing:

http://tinyurl.com/2zdlw6

92 But is it "cheese food"?

92
I've never had soy cheese alone, but I've eaten black bean taquitos that contain soy cheese, and I like them. That's kinda the thing with me and soy: it's easier to eat when it's mixed in with something else. Tofu kinda grosses me out by itself, but it's good with noodles and vegetables and such.

Didn't someone (Vishal?) post about the Griffey thing in the previous thread?

94 I don't know. I'm not a scientist. But I don't eat that stuff, either. Only real cheese from happy cows.

95 I'm also a soy mixer, but my mileage varies when it comes to soy cheese as a mix-in. Bleah.

96 - Yeah, it's day old news, I think.

I'm also a lacto-ovo veggie, and can confirm there is a veggie dog sold at Dodger Stadium. However, not many of the concession standss carry it. IIRC, one of the locations is on the Reserve Level behind home plate.

It's boiled, not grilled... so it's not exactly the best meatless dog I've tried. But it's not bad, especially when loaded with condiments.

I find tofu to be a very poor meat substitute usually. There are incredible TVPs (Textured Vegetable Proteins) out there though, that are wonderful. A friend's aunt owns a "not for profit, cruelty free" restaurant and the food is outstanding. If I could eat like that all the time I could almost be vegetarian.

99 You recall correctly; that's where we were.

96,98 sorry my fault. I guess that's what happens when you skip a thread or two during the week.

I have to admit that Ned's bullpen strategy is far better, than say, the Reds. When our bullpen stinks, Ned gets rid of the pitchers who are performing. When the Reds bullpen stinks, Krivski decides that not having Chad Moeller on the team was the problem.

If you're not watching/listening/following on gameday the 51's game, it is getting exciting. After being down 5-0 in the 6th, they came back to score 4 in the bottom of the inning.

DT Hero Loney is 1 for 3 with a rbi double.

DT Hero Kemp is 0 for 1 in a pinch hit appearance for soon to depart (I assume) Joe Mays.

100 Where is that restaurant? I always enjoy perusing new places to dine.

104. Oh, and old friend just hit a home run to make it 7-4

106. That's old friend Ledee

105 - Louisville, KY.

90,99

How long have they had them at the stadium? I've never heard about it. I've only had one at a game in the old Candlestick park back in 1989. I thought the world would catch on once Burger King and McD's got a veggie burger, but it is slow going at stadiums.

I generally don't eat tofu dogs, they aren't very good and I don't personally like the meat flavored kind which is what they'd probably have at the stadium. I prefer them grilled over boiled also, so... not great food period. But an option for us non-meat eaters is also good to see.

Veggie burgers are different. I prefer the original Gardenburger (not grillers). They are tasty enough, but aren't fake meat. My wife likes the Boca burgers which are fake meat, I hate them. She eats fake bacon, chicken patties, etc... I didn't like the taste of meat to begin with so these make me sick to even smell them cooked.

If you like mock-meat tasting things, she also likes all the Morningstar Farms products. Me... I stick with plain original Gardenburger. I even bought stock in them and it dumped so much it got delisted. I'm just glad they're still in business.

105 Oh. So much for a quick lunch in the OC.

I spent a summer in college working in an agricultural sciences lab where we were busy perfecting the texture of soy chicken and a bunch of other meat substitute products. Soy hot dogs are by far the easiest to produce and simulate like the meat and was already pretty close to done by the late '90's. Flavor is pretty easy to imitate, especially in cooked foods (which is why the soy cheese in a burrito tastes fine), it is the texture that is hardest thing to master.

109 Like you, I don't care much for Boca Burgers... Gardenburgers are my preference. I generally don't care for "veggie chicken/bacon/etc" products, although veggie dogs have never bothered me (for whatever reason).

Native Foods, over in Westwood, makes some great meat substitute products though.

I see also in that 51s game that the Dodgers had brought Matt Riley up to Vegas after he'd been doing so great in Jax. His Vegas debut? Not so good. He gave up that two run homer to Ledee.

110 - Yeah, it is not convenient to the West Coast.

112- I don't much care for those things either, though they work fine as an ingredient. I had some veggie ham that was fantastic in a soup the other day, but I think it would have been mediocre on a sandwich.

109,112- Count me in for the Gardenburgers are fine but Bocas are nasty category. The only fake meat product I actually enjoy are morning star breakfast sausages.

115 The Morningstar sausage patties on English muffins with mustard... mmmm.

114. That's because the ham flavoring was in the soup and not in the actual ham substitute, it is extremely odd how flavor and texture interact, you would probably like a soy-based chicken soup too.

I like those Morningstar Farms sausages (links and patties) too and agree that most other fake meat patty products are gross. Gardenburgers all the way. I once tried broiling "not dogs" and it was a disaster; they all dried out and were inedible. Grilling's good, though. I don't eat red meat but do eat poultry so really dig those gourmet turkey-chicken sausages you can get now. Also have had great faux chicken at Chinese places that - when breaded and fried and glazed especially - you can't tell apart from the real kind.

Meanwhile, the Dodgers scored 3 to tie it, including 2 off old friend Steve Schmoll and Mitch Jones continues to rake it with a 2-run homer. Delwyn Young is 4 for 4 in the game.

118 I meant "Junior Dodgers" above, of course, meaning the 51s.

Mmm, now I'm hungry for a sausage or gardenburger.

117 - No, the ham flavor was in the substitute. The soup was a Pho like broth with noodles, and everything else (bean sprouts, siracha, mint, tofu, TVP, Thai Basil) was added by me. I could have mistaken the ham for real ham, especially when it was with all the other ingredients. I don't like ham very much though, so a ham sandwich is not really my cup of tea.

93: Thanks.

Chinese fried tofu is my favorite texture of tofu. I dislike the texture of it when it is too soft and pasty.

Most Chinese restaurants call it "Beancake Home Style".

For those of you who have never had a tofu dog and want to know what it tastes like, imagine the taste in your mouth chewing cardboard for ten minutes and watching Edmonds hit that check swing double after Pujols popped out yesterday in the first inning.

All this vegetarian talk is making me lose my appetite :)

But I do love spicy fried tofu in Chinese restaurants.

Is beer a vegetable?

113
Actually his AAA debut for Vegas came last week and he was totally hammered. Pitcher of the week one day, fried lefty the next.

3 doubles for Delwyn Young today, to follow up on that. Not too shabby. But Matt White came in and gave up a 2 run homer while probably dreaming of his cash cow back home.

Tofu has to be cooked in a sauce to be palatable.

125 Oh did he? Whoops, and bummer. Maybe they're bringing these guys up in anticipation of moving up Brazoban and/or Kuo?

122 In Chinese (Mandarin) it is doufu.

i eat everything.

127 - Tofu is actually very hard to penetrate with flavor. It is much harder to marinate than any meat, even though it doesn't have a disagreeable flavor to overcome (like some seafoods for example). Poorly marinated tofu tastes like rubber.

Many Asian dishes don't use tofu as a meat substitute, but just as an additional meat. So tofu will be paired with pork or beef, which is a nice change of pace from it trying to support the whole dish by itself.

Just because the Animal Legal Defense Fund sent the L.A. Times a press release, doesn't mean Farmer John really is cruel to animals.

128
I just think he had been so dominating at AA there was no point in keeping him there since he's a reclamation project. The first time I was hoping it was jet lag but to give up a home run to Ledee when your a LHP does not bode well.

I'm kinda nervous about Scott Elbert. He hasnt pitched in almost a month.

132
I guess it all depends on what you consider cruelty to animals that are being raised simply to be slaughtered and eaten.

134
Yes, very nervous. And Kershaw's last start was not inspiring.

Someone mentioned it in the last thread, but no one seems to have noticed - Billingsley will probably be stretched out to start the next time a 5th starter is needed:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=1352
(with a link to the LA Times, but I didn't feel like trying to remember my password to their site)

Another great post on FJM. I'm thinking about starting to read the actual Joe Morgan chats--- I figure the FJM people must be making that stuff up.

132, 135 - I would imagine that Farmer John isn't doing anything illegal if that is what you mean Andrew. Still, if this story gets some legs, no mass meat producer really wants a lot of scrutiny into the process because it is extremely inhumane.

This is only tangentially related, but "Blood of the Beast" is an amazing movie.

134 I was gonna ask you about him, has there been any news at all lately?

I'm beginning to think I've become a curse to pitchers. In my AL-only fantasy league I've had Halladay, Felix Hernandez, Mussina, and Philip Hughes all get hurt this year. In my NL-only league I've had Carpenter go down, two of my minor leaguers have season-ending surgery (Brad Lincoln and Fernando Nieve) and now Elbert get put on the shelf. I'd be pretty scared if I was Chris Volstad right now.

140
Don't trade for Ben Sheets or I will hunt you down.

140 You don't have any Dodger outfielders do you?

140

dont acquire anymore dodger prospects.

136 - Isn't it a little premature to be getting alarmed over Kershaw having a single poor start? Good pitchers, too, get lit-up now and again. Elbert? Yeah, that's potentially a little dismaying, but it's also possible they're just being really careful with him. It seems not too too much to hope.

I think we noticed; we were just trying not to get too excited yet. Our hearts have been broken before! But I really do hope Bills gets a start next time, either in Tomko's place or Hendy's. It just makes so much sense they'll probably find a reason not to do it.

More evidence might be needed, but the cruelty to animals thing shouldn't be too hard to believe - it is old-timey corporate farms Farmer John we're talking about. I think they've even been mocked on the Simpsons once or twice (during one of their Vin Scully impersonations). I wouldn't expect there to be much free range meat raising going on. (Btw, there really is a difference in taste between grass-fed/free range beef and chicken and the crowded slaughterhouse kind. Last time I ate beef it was grass-fed and it almost made me want to go off the wagon again. Even if the stuff does screw up my stomach.)

144

well, kershaw has had two really poor starts; his first one of the year and this last one where once again, one of our lefty pitching prospects turned into steve blass.

137 - "Someone mentioned it in the last thread, but no one seems to have noticed"

Contradiction in terms?

Billingsley's day will come - Grady said back in March that he wasn't banishing him to the bullpen forever.

147 I meant that someone posted it, but no one commented on it. I saw a few people in this thread wondering if there had been talk of Billingsley going back into the rotation, so I figured most people hadn't seen the link since it was at the tail end of the last thread.

143 I just traded for Billingsley a couple weeks ago (oops) and I already have Broxton and Hendrickson

More evidence might be needed

More than an entire press release?

148

well, trade them away.

138. The first FJM chat I read, I thought they were making it up. I thought it was a clever piece, but then I found out it was real! Imagine my surprise.

140. But Capuano might be an okay trade.

The 51's lost 9-8, but not before Loney had a ninth-inning, RBI double, over the heads of deep playing outfielders.
But then they thought it fit to have Stinnent come in to pinch hit.

We went from Booze Thoughts last night to Tofu Thoughts today. This is a very esoteric forum.

My veggie ex-girlfriend got me eating all kinds of non-meat products. I appear to be in the minority of favoring Boca burgers over Gardenburgers any day, although I think Morningstar makes the best meatless stuff. And MaPo Tofu is my favorite Chinese dish. Yum.

I'm still as big a carnivore as they come though. I've made my peace with being a meat-eater, but I see no reason not to be as humane as possible about it, so I have no problem with the PETA crowd making some PR trouble for Farmer John to get them to raise the conditions in the animals' pens.

144
I think I can comment on Kershaw getting hammered without it being considered an alarm.
Elbert on the other hand will have me nervous until he pitches again without pain.

I have never had a Dodger dog.

152 - Well put. I am hooked on the stuff at this point, but I would love it if the process became more humane.

I have never had a veggie burger, because I rather just eat vegetables then fake meat.

Which would the pigs prefer, a hopeless life from beginning to end, kept in the dark about other possibilities, and finding death a pleasant alternative to living, or to have some humanity shown to them and then have their necks slit just as they thought there was more to life?

When I was younger I was all about the red meat, but I find that I prefer breads and even veggies to a lot of meat these days. Still, nothing tops a great cut of steak or really nice cut of fish (Chilean Sea Bass or Tuna).

157 - This is an amusing justification.

My dad worked for years across the street from the Farmer John plant in Vernon. Their mural is a fond childhood memory. It certainly didn't portray the animals as being mist-treated. They seemed happy to be there.

160
"Hey guys! We're finally gonna die!"

I've seen things in Vernon that should have turned me vegetarian.

162 - "I shot a pig in Vernon, just to watch him fry."

- Johnny Cash

Everytime I see the FJ Mural I always think of "The Jungle". The description of the slaughterhouses are etched deep in my mind.

154
I've never been to a Dodger home game without having a Dodger Dog.

(Granted, I only go to about three a year.)

I have never been to a Dodger game, so that would explain why I have never had a Dodger Dog.

163 LOL

152 - "We went from Booze Thoughts last night to Tofu Thoughts today. This is a very esoteric forum."

Many years back, I dated a very beautiful 19 year old for a short while. She once talked excitedly about some tofu she'd just eaten. So, the next time she came over, I was prepared with a big white lump of tofu in my refrigerator. Except I had no idea what to do with it...

My booze thoughts turned to beer thoughts exclusively a few years back. Although, a friend brought over some Jack Daniels a couple weeks back, and that stuff was surprisingly drinkable, right out of the bottle. Hard liquor scares me though.

It's the most famous hot dog in the world. Made right here in the Southland.

Must be weird to be a huge fan of a team you've never been able to see. The whole Canuck being a huge Dodger fan cracks me up.

Trainwreck, You've seen the Dodgers live up north though, haven't you?

We may not have Adande and Henson to kick around much longer.

http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2007/05/buyout_chatter_at_lat.php

h/t: Sources

166 - I have seen the Dodgers play at Turner Field and Wrigley (and maybe Fulton County, I would have to check with my dad), but never in Chavez Ravine.

I've seen things in Vernon that should have turned me vegetarian.

i saw a cow escape from a truck once, i was about 11 years old when it happened.

Not yet, but hopefully I can now that I got one of my friends into the Dodgers. We are going to a 51's game in Sacramento this year.

I was going to go to Dodger Stadium once. We had front row tickets and were going to take Amtrak down, but my Dad was in the advanced stages of his illness. So when Amtrak continued to be delayed, my Dad eventually had to get back home.

172 - Wow, that's a bigtime list.

172 For non-journalism reasons, I'm very happy some of those names are leaving.

129 Actually in Mandarin it is something like: 臭豆腐 ;) You are correct that "doufu" is the pinyin transliteration; "tofu" is perhaps Romanji, but I would bow to Xeifrank on any of this.

Tofu is written like this, 豆腐; while 臭豆腐 means stinky tofu.

Plaschke is not on the list. The application must require multi-sentence paragraphs.

180 - As sick as it sounds, I bet Plaschke is someone they wouldn't buy out. He is their heavy hitter, which is an example of why they have to buy out 150 people.

I hate to pick nits on your article, Jon, but wasn't it Hendrickson that replaced Schmidt in the rotation? Tomko has been in there all year...

181

Steve Henson:Bill Plaschke::Russell Martin:Juan Pierre

Does a pig know any more about its ultimate fate than, say, a soy bean plant? Does a soy bean plant feel any pain when whacked with a sickle during harvest? Who speaks up for a more humane way to harvest a soy bean plant?

Louie CK has a good on this. Everyone complains about dolphins in the tuna, but what about the tuna?

*good bit on this

183- Henson's fine, but let's not get crazy, here. H.L. Mencken's looking up at Martin.

184 - Since humans can only eat biological matter we have to draw the line somewhere. I draw it at "human," others draw it at "mammal" and some way back at "animal." If you are more inclusive than that, then you better get used to a diet of Mushrooms and bacteria.

http://www.press-citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070514/SPORTS01/705140314/1080

A reader sent in this link to an article on Zach Hammes

I don't eat anything with a shadow.

182 - Uhhhhhhh.... yeah.

189

thanks jon!

It is all about the warm blooded. There isn't a warm blooded baby that you can't play with and relate to unless your cold blooded of course.

189
"Can't call up people who aren't doing well"

What we call knocking the door down.

A large dairy animal approached Zaphod Beeblebrox's table, a large fat meaty quadruped of the bovine type with large watery eyes, small horns and what might almost have been an ingratiating smile on its lips.

"Good evening", it lowed and sat back heavily on its haunches, "I am the main Dish of the Day. May I interest you in the parts of my body?" ...

Its gaze was met by looks of startled bewilderment from Arthur and Trillian, a resigned shrug from Ford Prefect and naked hunger from Zaphod Beeblebrox.

"Something off the shoulder perhaps?" suggested the animal, "Braised in a white wine sauce?"

"Er, your shoulder?" said Arthur in a horrified whisper.

"But naturally my shoulder, sir," mooed the animal
contentedly, "nobody else's is mine to offer." ...

"You mean this animal actually wants us to eat it?'" whispered Trillian to Ford. ...

"That's absolutely horrible," exclaimed Arthur, "the most revolting thing I've ever heard."

"What's the problem Earthman?" said Zaphod, now transfering his attention to the animal's enormous rump.

"I just don't want to eat an animal that's standing there inviting me to," said Arthur, "It's heartless."

"Better than eating an animal that doesn't want to be eaten," said Zaphod. ...

May I urge you to consider my liver?" asked the animal, "it must be very rich and tender by now, I've been force-feeding myself for months." ...

"Look," said Zaphod, "we want to eat, we don't want to make a meal of the issues. Four rare stakes please, and hurry. We haven't eaten in five hundred and seventy-six thousand million years."

The animal staggered to its feet. It gave a mellow gurgle. "A very wise coice, sir, if I may say so. Very good," it said, "I'll just nip off and shoot myself."

He turned and gave a friendly wink to Arthur.

"Don't worry, sir," he said, "I'll be very humane."

-- From the genius of Douglas Adams

You can't kill an animal that can speak English.

196 - Russian yes, German maybe, but English, no way.

195 reminds me of Mel's Char Palace. You kill it! You cut it! You eat it!

196 Under that rule, I'm killing, and eating, the next baby I see.

I'll tell the parents that trainwreck said it was OK.

DodgerSims tuesday evening win probabilities for NL West teams. The Dodgers had a win probability of over 59% last night, so let's hope they can get it right tonight. vr, Xei
LAD: 58.38%
SD: 51.72%
ARI: 59.83%
HOU: 62.16%

The next time I eat a steak, I'll stab it several times before I take my first bite. My karma may have me choke on it, and die, since there won't be anyone around who knows Heimlich. I'll probably come back as a calf, bred for veal.

Please, a not for profit, cruelty free restaurant? Give me a break.

195
Prefect

199 Don't forget the Hungry Heffer.

178/179. Sorry I missed the chinese language posts. I am not too good at reading chinese characters, but the pinyin looks good. I am not a big fan of the dish and will stick with my "huo guo" and "jaozi".
On a sidenote, I'm not sure how much you can complain about the living conditions of something that is bread to die. I mean, at what point do you draw the line? I would think the worst part is the killing part, not the size of the cage.
vr, Xei

California cheese is better because happy cows come from California.

Maybe Dodger Dogs will be a little more swallowable if we just gave these pigs some room to scratch themselves.

Since the complaint is about how Farmer John treats pigs, Dodger Stadium should switch to all-beef hot dogs. Problem solved. Everybody happy.

Huston Street hits the DL, could be longer then 15 days since it is a nerve problem.

A's just getting healthy but this won't help.

Can someone please tell me why Brett Tomko even started the year in the starting rotation? I mean, it's like Billingsley was never given a chance to start from the beginning, yet Tomko is getting every opportunity. Why? If it's true when Little says "We have a lot of confidence that Chad will be a starter in Los Angeles with the Dodgers for a long time," then why was he given up on for absolutley no reason at the start of spring training in favor of a guy, who as has been well established, stinks. Period. Mediocre throughout his career, with no chance of getting better. I mean, it's certifiable insanity that Brett Tomko started at all for the dodgers this year. Why?

Any reason why all the links to Screen Jam now take me to a pay site called TV Central?

209 - No. What do you mean? Which links?

All of the links from DT to either Screen Jam or Toaster.tv take me to some file-sharing membership site. I'm using IE from work, if that helps.

https://screenjam.baseballtoaster.com/

This is the link. Same address, but not Screen Jam from this terminal.

211 Sounds like your browser got hijacked. The links work for me.

Use Firefox

211. perhaps your browser has been hijacked. Last week DT was rerouting me to FoxMovies.com and I figured somebody was playing a bad yoke on me. vr, Xei

How do I kill the hijackers? I don't have Firefox here.

208 - My hope was that they were showcasing Tomko for a quick trade. I think he's pretty much exhausted his opportunity this time around, if I'm reading some of the recent quotes.

I hope they release him; I just don't even see the point of wasting a roster spot on him when you have a guy like Meloan in the minors.

You could always give in and join the pay site. Who's to say you won't like it?

208. Be patient grasshopper. The cream will rise to the top and Billingsley will eventually be in the starting rotation with a little less wear and tear on his arm had he begun the season in the rotation.
vr, Xei

215 That was a heckuva showcase last night.

https://screenjam.baseballtoaster.com/ works just fine for me. I wonder if you have some kind of spyware virus that is causing that? Maybe do a scan using adaware or something... Unless it was just a temporary glitch and now it's fixed.

Btw, that terrific sample from Douglas Adams reminded me, too, of that Simpsons set in the Garden of Eden where Homer eats from the living pig, who invites him to enjoy himself. (Not to mention the Odyssey episode where Homer eats his friends who had been turned into pigs by a witch. Ugh.)

Well, it's my work pc, so it's out of my hands. Whatever.

Wow, Adam Wainwright has had some weird day/night splits:

Wainwright's ERA
Day: 6.35, 5 starts
Night: 2.08, 2 starts

221 Wow, that's a lot of day starts, I'm assuming at least a couple of those were against the Cubs

182, 191 ... I read it as creative license for Jon's theme. It is easier to say that the Dodgers lost a starter, and now they have one that isn't working out whom they wouldn't need to be using if Schmidt wasn't on the DL.

Let's gloss over the fact that Tomko entered the rotation before Schmidt went on the DL, since it is more complicated to write that Hendrickson, who really replaced Schmidt, is doing okay, but Tomko is the worst starter, so you gotta figure that if Schmidt were back, Tomko would go.

interesting that Chipper Jones rips the Interleague play schedule.
=======
With interleague games resuming next weekend, the Braves third baseman on Sunday sharply criticized the current format that requires the Braves to meet the Red Sox and the Mets to oppose the Yankees six times each, while other NL East teams play less-rugged schedules.
"I don't think there's any question it's not fair, but I don't think major league baseball is concerned with fair," Jones said before Atlanta's 13-2 loss in Pittsburgh. "If you play the top teams in the American League and everybody else doesn't, it's pretty unfair."
=========
Kind of ironic that he would say this after having played the Pittsburgh Pirates. And on top of that they have the Marlins and Nationals, teams with the two worst records in the National League in their own division.
vr, Xei

222 - One in Wrigley. He's pitched 3 at the end of a series, which tend to be day games, and two weekend games.

200 Hey Xei, would you be willing to share your baseball simulator software? I'd love to be able to run simulations like that.

Conspiracy strikes again for the NBA.

Bobby "Don't call me Will Smith" Horry was suspended for 2 games while Amare and Boris Diaw (otherwise known as the Sun's starting and back up center) were suspended for Game 5 for walking off the bench.

Ouch. That hurts the Suns a lot more than it hurts the Spurs. Not that Horry isn't valuable, too, but...

LaRoche in there tonight:
(courtesy of ItD:)
Furcal, SS

Pierre, CF

Nomar, 1B

Kent, 2B

Gonzo, LF

Martin, C

Ethier, RF

LaRoche, 3B

Lowe, P

Kurt Thomas and Pat Burke to the rescue of the Suns!

226. email me and I will try to get you a setup file to install and some instructions.
vr, Xei

Don't browser hijackings usually come with tons and tons of really pleasant pornographic popups? It might just be DNS cache poisoning. It's not my thing, so I don't really know anything about it but, there you go.

If you're allowed to mess with it, I'd try clearing the browser's cache, and running (from a c prompt) "ipconfig /flushdns". If that doesn't fix it, I'd let the IT dept. know.

231. xeifrank at yahoo dot com.

229. looks like a winning lineup to me. Let's hope we can break the curse of David Eckstein tonight. vr, Xei

It's funny... the back end of our lineup is so much more exciting and interesting to watch than 1-4 (even with Furcal and Kent there).

179 That's why I wrote "something like"; I knew it was "stinky doufu", but not which character was odoriferous - thanks for clarifying.

Say, I wonder if the doufu would be better if left to soak in the booze?

I don't mind the front end now either, now that Furcal is hitting - except for watching Slappy McBunt and his "gristle."

231 Will do, and thank you very much! IIRC, your email address was xeifrank {at} yahoo {dot} com?

229 I'll get off the why-can't-Martin-get-a-night-off soapbox and get on the why-can't-Gonzo-get-a-night-off one. Its going to be hard for me not to skip to why-can't-Gonzo-get-a-bunch-of-nights-off.

Well, Martin at least (unexpectedly) got half a night off last night. ;-) I have a feeling Lieberthal might catch Wolf tomorrow, too, but could be wrong.

238 It would not be surprising that one of these guys, Martin, Nomar, Kent, or Lugo get tomorrow off, then they would get almost 3 days with the off day and the Friday night game in Anaheim.

No platoon advantage with the righthander on the mound.

Tony Jackson makes a good point with Betamit hitting a homer last night, what is the reasoning, if any since LaRoche plays in tonight's game.

240 - what is the reasoning, if any since LaRoche plays in tonight's game.

Then it would be a platoon, and Grady specifically said it would not be a platoon! :)

In all seriousness, I don't mind LaRoche getting some AB's against a righty. I don't think you want to get his career started by almost exclusively having him face lefties. And if you're going to give one guy the benefit of additional playing time, LaRoche is the better choice.

228 - Not that Horry isn't valuable, too, but...

It's ok, you don't have to choose your words carefully. Horry knows he stinks. That's why he's (finally) retiring this year.

This is an astounding disadvantage for Phoenix, though they are playing at home right?

242 Yeah, by "..." I really meant "he sucks." This is clearly a bad situation for the Suns. Not that I am rooting for them, but then again I don't really hate them for their dismantling of the Lakers because the Lakers deserved it. Wait, what were we talking about?

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Whoever Plays Third Base.

After this incident, I really hope the spurs do not win the title. That is just such a poor, unequivocal way to advance in the playoffs. I know the Suns players should not have left the bench, but how do you not react like that when your main player is being tossed around? I bet Horry is getting high-fives all around the locker room.

244 When did we get Dick Stuart? :-)

244 Baseball is too important to be left to management. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. And to continue this platoon.

245 The irony of this now ten year old incident togehter with the reported suspensions of Stoudamire and Diaw, should make Robert Horry an all time "favorite" in the Valley of the Sun.

http://tinyurl.com/2kmuzw

242. it's a tough call for the NBA, but you're right it doesn't seem fair that the Suns lose good players and the Spurs lose Horry. Judgements like these help enforce the "don't leave the bench for a fight" rule, but it also tells the players that they should just use one of their lesser valued players to pick a fight with the other teams best player and hope he either fights back or someone on his team leaves the bench. I think when you are in the playoffs and multiple players are being suspended there needs to be some consideration for the current situation. Perhaps in this case a game 5 suspension for Amare and a game 6 suspension for Diaw?? I'm not exactly sure what to do, but this does seem a little unfair.
vr, Xei

244. Dr. Strangeglove?

248 Yeah, but Danny Ainge, that's understandable.

I'm surprised the NBA went this route; they could have just as easily suspended Horry for one game (he deserves at least that) and not suspended the Suns' players, stating that the did not leave the "vicinity of the bench". Where Nash landed was, by NBA "standards", two steps from the Suns' bench.

244 Mein Fuhrer! I can walk! (Just look at my OBP!)

New post up top.

249. It's perfectly fair. The rule couldn't be more explicit. That it was 2 guys in the regular rotation who broke it isn't Horry's fault, or the NBA's. If the Suns have been lucky enough to have Jalen Rose (who'd have to be awake) and some other scrub rush the court, it would look like San Antonio got the raw deal.

I'll say one thing about the ugly Pistons/Knicks basketball of the late 1980s: at least everyone knew who the designated goons were.

252 Heh. That one worked better than my 247.

Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.