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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Willy Aybar in Rehab
2007-05-19 16:43
by Jon Weisman

Former Dodger Willy Aybar has entered a substance-abuse rehabilitation clinic, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.

* * *

Is the end of success nigh for Mark Hendrickson, or can he keep it going?

Tonight's 6:05 p.m. game:


Retro Gameday

Update: Tim Brown has a column on Willy and Erick Aybar:

Few current Dodgers players know Willy well. Willy's closest friend in the organization was Joel Guzman, who was traded last summer to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Catcher Russell Martin called him, "a good teammate," but knew him only as such. Dodgers officials know him as a decent, mostly quiet young man who'd had great offensive potential but lacked defensive skills.

First base coach Mariano Duncan coached Willy in several minor-league seasons. He said he once talked Willy out of quitting baseball over his frustration with learning to switch-hit, and that he'd had a girlfriend who'd adored Willy's twin daughters.

"He's a good kid, an easy-going kid," Duncan said. "It's so sad for me to hear this. I never saw anything bad about that kid. I never saw that side of Willy Aybar."

Duncan turned his head, looking for Erick across the field, unable to locate him. Duncan first met Erick while working at the Angels' baseball academy in the Dominican Republic six years ago. Two years later, then having taken a job with the Dodgers, he met Willy. He said he tried to reach Willy by phone in recent weeks. His messages were unanswered. It pains him that Willy never asked for help. ...

Comments (295)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-05-19 16:47:20
1.   gpellamjr
There are two things in this world I can't stand.

1) Losing to the Giants.

2) Losing to the Angels.

2007-05-19 16:50:10
2.   Curtis Lowe
Good for Willy. Maybe Hendrickson should introduce Willy to his Pyschologist, though maybe he's not a drug counselor he did work wonders for mark.
2007-05-19 16:57:06
3.   Bob Timmermann
The AJC cannot spell Willy's brother's name correctly. It's Erick.

I think they've also used Eric. Today they used Erik.

2007-05-19 17:07:15
4.   Joshua Worley
I kind of thought the end of Hendrickson's success had already come.

I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

He may not be able to recapture his high strikeout rate of April, but at least I hope he can cut down on the walks.

2007-05-19 17:16:49
5.   Indiana Jon
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Kershaw was much better today.
2007-05-19 17:20:21
6.   D4P
Female billiards player Xiaoting Pan has great hair. You can see her now on ESPN2.
2007-05-19 17:27:23
7.   Andrew Shimmin
Patt Morrison is wearing a silly hat on CSPAN2.
2007-05-19 17:27:24
8.   Bluebleeder87

will do.

2007-05-19 17:29:19
9.   Bluebleeder87
But seriously, i hope theres a happy ending in Willy Aybars future.
2007-05-19 17:39:24
10.   Suffering Bruin
I am very, very pleased Willy Aybar is in rehab. The hardest thing about being an associate of a substance abuser is accepting that you don't have any power over the outcome. I always hated that. I always thought if I loved the person enough, if the person could see how much I cared, that would mean the person would stop using (I have to choose my words carefully here). It ain't the case, of course. All I could do was take care of myself and hope for the best. Alanon meetings helped tremendously; it let me know that I wasn't alone and hardly unique. Thankfully for me, it turned out well though I know it's a day-by-day thing.

Godspeed, Willy.

2007-05-19 17:42:50
11.   Marty
Patt Morrison is never without a hat.
2007-05-19 17:45:01
12.   Andrew Shimmin
Day two of the Is Eric Karros a Metrosexual? Show. Awesome.
2007-05-19 17:45:43
13.   Suffering Bruin
12 ?
2007-05-19 17:47:51
14.   Bob Timmermann
And she explained why once in a column in the LA Times.
2007-05-19 17:49:12
15.   Andrew Shimmin
13- The pregame show. Consider yourself blessed to be in the dark on the subject.
2007-05-19 17:49:49
16.   Bluebleeder87

one day at a time, i feel you brotha.

2007-05-19 17:54:01
17.   Bob Timmermann
In solidarity, I won't drink any alcohol tonight and I think I can get Daniel Zappala to join me.
2007-05-19 17:54:59
18.   Marty
Was booze Aybar's problem, or something else?
2007-05-19 17:55:44
19.   Marty
Maybe I should read the article. Ignore 18
2007-05-19 17:57:12
20.   Greg Brock
17 You're a real mensch, Bob Timmermann.
2007-05-19 17:58:09
21.   Honoluludodger
17. That is an excellent idea. I will not drink alcohol tonight either.
2007-05-19 17:59:37
22.   Bluebleeder87
i don't think we've ever faced Jared Weaver have we? i'm kind of pumped to see him pitch, obviously i'm rooting for the Dodger but i wanna see him in game situations.
2007-05-19 18:00:16
23.   Curtis Lowe
17 - Due to Graduations and it being a saturday night I cannot abstain. I will however hold off on anything harder than alcohol until Vegas next weekend.
2007-05-19 18:02:07
24.   Honoluludodger
17. In fact, in solidarity I think that we should all abstain from alcohol the entire time that Aybar is in rehab.
2007-05-19 18:07:43
25.   Andrew Shimmin
The Dodgers haven't faced Weaver, but Furcal did, during his minor league rehab stint, this year. He went one for two with a walk.
2007-05-19 18:07:45
26.   Bob Timmermann
I think we should all abstain from alcohol until Pierre hits a home run.

I'm trying to give him the nickname of Volstead Act.

2007-05-19 18:12:44
27.   Honoluludodger
26. I am really enjoying the nickname "The Player". But I like the Volstead Act nickname as well. I think if we all lived up to that pledge, it would have more of an impact on the sale of alcohol than the Volstead Act did.

I will stick to my pledge to refrain from drinking while Aybar is in rehab.

2007-05-19 18:12:44
28.   Andrew Shimmin
I've exhausted my interest in searching for the column. Why does Patt Morrison always wear a hat?
2007-05-19 18:13:00
29.   MMSMikey
this already has the feeling of a long night for the dodgers
2007-05-19 18:13:13
30.   Bob Timmermann
Vin is hungry as Nomar has been described as the Dodgers "bread and butter" man and then later referred to Nomar's "salad days."

Sadly, there was no entree.

2007-05-19 18:13:36
31.   Honoluludodger
28. To keep her head warm.
2007-05-19 18:14:52
32.   spacebrother
Around home, we call Morrison "Pat the Hat."
2007-05-19 18:15:36
33.   Sam DC
30: Did we try and sneak a lamb chop past a wolf yet?
2007-05-19 18:16:33
34.   MMSMikey
the reggie willits show
2007-05-19 18:16:55
35.   overkill94
If we get singled to death again I might just snap
2007-05-19 18:17:09
36.   Bob Timmermann
I emailed you the column.
2007-05-19 18:17:34
37.   overkill94
I'd like to apologize for violating the alcohol ban, I'm enjoying a nice cold Newcastle as we speak.
2007-05-19 18:17:44
38.   Sam DC
I'm concerned, Bob, that you've been so busy working Delaware issues that you missed the big news out of Cincy.

Krivsky has grieved Majewski.

2007-05-19 18:19:27
39.   MMSMikey
this could get ugly
2007-05-19 18:19:59
40.   Andrew Shimmin
35- Thanks Bob!
2007-05-19 18:20:47
41.   MMSMikey
how does nomar not pick that
2007-05-19 18:20:51
42.   Honoluludodger
37. We all may need to violate the ban by the time this one is over.
2007-05-19 18:21:36
43.   Bluebleeder87
It seems like the ghost of 2002 is still stoking Kent, he's making some really bad errors.
2007-05-19 18:21:50
44.   Sam DC
A Rod appears to have resumed hitting home runs.
2007-05-19 18:21:50
45.   gpellamjr
Abreu would have made a better turn, Loney would have come up with that bad throw, Billingsley would not have allowed the base runners in the first place, and Kemp would have hit a homerun in the first inning.
2007-05-19 18:21:56
46.   Eric Enders
Nomar's lousy defense this year only makes him all the more replaceable. Why did we give him a 2-year contract again?
2007-05-19 18:21:56
47.   dsfan
Sorry to see Henson won't be covering the Dodgers. Enjoyed his articles.
2007-05-19 18:22:00
48.   overkill94
I blame Nomar for that one, it really wasn't a tough pick
2007-05-19 18:22:01
49.   Honoluludodger
Loney would have dug that throw out of the dirt.
2007-05-19 18:24:21
50.   Marty
Alex Cora would have turned the double play by himself.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-05-19 18:24:26
51.   overkill94
Bob, can you assume the double play on the one Nomar botched? I realize the run is unearned since they got a double play from the next batter anyway, but what if the next guy had hit a deep fly ball (long enough for a sac fly)?
2007-05-19 18:24:36
52.   Bob Timmermann
Krivsky's been threatening that grievance so long that it ceased being news. I think Bowden should file a counterclaim that Krivsky shouldn't have made the deal in the first place.
2007-05-19 18:25:19
53.   overkill94
Boom goes the motor bike!
2007-05-19 18:25:21
54.   spacebrother
That's better.
2007-05-19 18:25:32
55.   D4P
Kent was angry. I wouldn't like him when he's angry.
2007-05-19 18:25:35
56.   Bluebleeder87
We all may need to violate the ban by the time this one is over.

my resolve not to drink will stand even firmer if we have another bad game. But look Kent just hit a bomb, woo!!!

2007-05-19 18:26:09
57.   Bob Timmermann
If you drop a throw that would have completed a DP, you can get an error.
2007-05-19 18:26:57
58.   Bluebleeder87

Did he get fired or something? i didn't read The Times today.

2007-05-19 18:28:10
59.   Bob Timmermann
That's the best news of the day.
2007-05-19 18:30:15
60.   overkill94
57 In your judgement, would you have assumed the double play?
2007-05-19 18:31:52
61.   Eric Enders
Weaver looks very hittable tonight. Meatball fastballs up in the zone. (Of course, now that I've said that I'm sure we will lose 9-1.)
2007-05-19 18:33:01
62.   dsfan


2007-05-19 18:37:26
63.   Bob Timmermann
I would have given the error to Nomar and assumed it was a DP, but that wasn't the way the official scorer viewed it and Kent got the error. So then the "you can't assume the DP" comes into play.
2007-05-19 18:37:30
64.   gpellamjr
Kuo would have struck Napoli out, Young would have caught it on the fly.
2007-05-19 18:40:22
65.   bhsportsguy
64 Did you see the meatballs Kuo was throwing to the Cardinals the other night?

Kershaw bounced back today, pitched 6 innings, struck out 9, walked 3 and gave up only 1 hit and no runs. He won the game 3-0.

2007-05-19 18:40:32
66.   Bluebleeder87
Wow that's the weirdest but i've ever seen.
2007-05-19 18:41:16
67.   Sam DC
Wow -- Arizona just dropped five on the Pirates and tied that game up at 7 in the 7th.
2007-05-19 18:41:58
68.   Bob Timmermann
The Giants trail Oakland 3-0 on a Cust homer in the first off of Cain. The DBacks have rallied from 7-1 to tie the Bucs at 7-7.

San Diego and Seattle, not underway.

Rockies 2, Royals 1 in the 7th.

2007-05-19 18:42:11
69.   bhsportsguy
64 Did you see the meatballs Kuo was throwing to the Cardinals the other night?

Kershaw bounced back today, pitched 6 innings, struck out 9, walked 3 and gave up only 1 hit and no runs. He won the game 3-0.

2007-05-19 18:42:28
70.   Eric Enders
Dear Player:
You do not have the ability to hit home runs. Please stop trying.
2007-05-19 18:42:29
71.   overkill94
The Pirates are what the French would call "les incompetent". 5-run 7th for the D-Backs ties it at 7.
2007-05-19 18:42:40
72.   Greg Brock
Swings 2-0 and flies out.

Man, I really don't like this dude.

2007-05-19 18:43:43
73.   MMSMikey
if furcal steals 2nd like hes suppose to tie game
2007-05-19 18:44:21
74.   Sam DC
I'd just like to note for the record that Tony Batista's bat is very, very, very very very slow these days.
2007-05-19 18:44:27
75.   MMSMikey



2007-05-19 18:45:29
76.   D4P
Weaver's not likely to last long in this game.
2007-05-19 18:45:40
77.   regfairfield
Is there a reason why this game started at 6:05? It was very odd seeing a game going on after my nap.
2007-05-19 18:46:01
78.   Greg Brock
How long will our best hitter bat sixth? Any predictions?
2007-05-19 18:46:02
79.   Marty
I spit in the Pirate's general direction.
2007-05-19 18:46:19
80.   Sam DC
Which has partially contributed to free baseball in DC.

Earlier tonight, the Nationals got six innings of shutout ball from their emergency starter 30 year old Mike Bacsik.

2007-05-19 18:46:31
81.   Bob Timmermann
The Angels Saturday night games all start at this time.

Just like the Sunday day games starting around noon.

2007-05-19 18:46:51
82.   gpellamjr
72 If it weren't for the chemistry The Player provides, Nomar and Furcal would not have gotten those hits in the first place. So get off the guy's back!
2007-05-19 18:47:01
83.   Bluebleeder87
was it a swinging but that just happened to bloop over the 3rd baseman's head? diffidently a weird bunt hit.
2007-05-19 18:47:24
84.   Honoluludodger
The Angels center fielder is better than the Dodgers. What a minute, doesn't every team have a better center fielder than the Dodgers?
2007-05-19 18:47:37
85.   imperabo
I don't think Pierre is trying to hit home runs. That ball was just up and he poped it up. He doesn't seem to be overswinging at anything.
2007-05-19 18:48:13
86.   D4P
It was very odd seeing a game going on after my nap

What is it with all the napping that goes on around here?

2007-05-19 18:48:52
87.   D4P
It's quite fitting that Pierre and Figgins are such good friends.
2007-05-19 18:49:01
88.   regfairfield
86 When you rock and roll all night, you need to get a nice nap in.
2007-05-19 18:49:18
89.   Bob Timmermann
Time for the Juan Pierre-Corey Patterson-Nook Logan Cage Match!

Three men enter, only one man leaves!

2007-05-19 18:49:20
90.   Bluebleeder87
So get off the guy's back!

your gonna be a busy poster fighting Pierre's battles around here gpellamjr. ;o)

2007-05-19 18:50:52
91.   Marty
If I could, I'd take a nap every day.
2007-05-19 18:51:24
92.   D4P
When you rock and roll all night, you need to get a nice nap in

I suppose that's Bob's excuse as well

2007-05-19 18:51:39
93.   gpellamjr
88 The lost verse.
2007-05-19 18:51:59
94.   Sam DC
Nook has the Nationals only RBI tonight! A two-out RBI double no less.
2007-05-19 18:53:07
95.   Honoluludodger
87. Yet, the Angels bat Figgins 9th. We bat The Player 2d. Do we have a coach?
2007-05-19 18:54:24
96.   Bob Timmermann
The Volstead Act is having a much better year than Figgins.
2007-05-19 18:54:24
97.   D4P
Pitchers are bewilderingly careful when pitching to LuGo.
2007-05-19 18:54:44
98.   Andrew Shimmin
The Braves lost the early game by ten, and are leading by eleven in the nightcap. Baseball is weird.
2007-05-19 18:54:54
99.   D4P
Especially with Martin hitting behind him.
2007-05-19 18:56:15
100.   Andrew Shimmin
LuGo's getting his uniform dirty.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-05-19 18:56:48
101.   Sam DC

I've been trying for five minutes to figure out where I look on Gameday to see what players a team has left available.


2007-05-19 18:57:46
102.   Sam DC
Never mind, now I found it.
2007-05-19 18:58:08
103.   Bob Timmermann
New Gameday or Classic Gameday?

On New Gameday, there is a drop down menu in the boxscore to look at reserves.

On Classic, there should be a tab.

2007-05-19 19:00:01
104.   Andrew Shimmin
Looks like the Nats haven't got any position players left.
2007-05-19 19:00:07
105.   Sam DC
And I believe the result of my research is confirmation that, in the bottom of the tenth of a tie game, the Nationals have used all of their available non-pitchers.

I forward to watching Ray King pinch hit.

2007-05-19 19:01:09
106.   Greg Brock
With his recent power surge, Betemit is batting a robust .194.

It could be worse, I guess.

2007-05-19 19:01:52
107.   Greg Brock
Nevermind, it is worse. .192

Rob Deer approves.

2007-05-19 19:02:14
108.   D4P
I think the Dodgers will win this game. You can quote me on that.
2007-05-19 19:02:22
109.   regfairfield
Lieberthal did not sell that correctly.
2007-05-19 19:02:25
110.   Sam DC
2007-05-19 19:02:40
111.   overkill94
Come on blue, ask for help
2007-05-19 19:03:49
112.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think there's anyone the umps can ask on a play like that.

It's Lieberthal's fault for having a high threshold of pain.

2007-05-19 19:05:02
113.   overkill94
It seems the second base umpire would have a better view on a play like that. Doesn't seem any different than asking for help to see if a ball went off a guy's foot.
2007-05-19 19:05:41
114.   imperabo
D4P says, "I think the Dodgers will win this game."
2007-05-19 19:06:42
115.   bhsportsguy
74 pitches already for Weaver, I hope they can keep that pace up.
2007-05-19 19:06:55
116.   Bluebleeder87
Lieberthal should take some acting lessons from Al Pacino or DeNiro.
2007-05-19 19:06:59
117.   Honoluludodger
The Volstead Act stinks.
2007-05-19 19:07:54
118.   Bob Timmermann
My viral marketing plan is catching on.
2007-05-19 19:08:30
119.   bhsportsguy
Mount Steinbrenner seems awfully quiet, I wonder if the Yankees lose their series against Red Sox next week, will there be an eruption?
2007-05-19 19:08:38
120.   Pepperdine
Kelly Johnson of the Braves needs a single for the cycle and looks to get another at bat.
2007-05-19 19:09:40
121.   Bob Timmermann
That's a Red Alert!
2007-05-19 19:09:49
122.   Greg Brock
118 You're taking The Player away from me. And nobody really uses 3.5 anymore. Thanks.

Go take a nap.

2007-05-19 19:10:41
123.   Greg Brock
119 If Bobby Valentine manages the Yankees next year, I will be very conflicted.
2007-05-19 19:11:00
124.   gpellamjr
Does anybody have a link to the picture of Jordan dunking on Hendrickson?
2007-05-19 19:11:02
125.   spacebrother
Looks like Weaver may be getting weaker while Hendrickson is stepping up. I hope.
2007-05-19 19:11:19
126.   bhsportsguy
Lieberthal: Are you talking to me.
Umpire:[Puzzed] Umm no, that was a foul ball.
Lieberthal: You must be talking to me.
Umpire: Foul ball.
Lieberthal: Because I'm the only batter here.
Umpire: [Turns away]
Lieberthal: Hey Ump, Boo Ah!!
2007-05-19 19:12:01
127.   Honoluludodger
The Volstead Act bats this inning. I smell a rally coming on. Or do I smell something else?
2007-05-19 19:13:32
128.   bhsportsguy
123 You still coming out to LA during the summer?
2007-05-19 19:13:35
129.   Bob Timmermann
I don't wanna take a nap!!!

And I doubt Bobby Valentine will ever get hired on this side of the pond again.

2007-05-19 19:14:57
130.   natepurcell
maybe pierre needs to lift weights to build muscle mass instead of you know, lift weights the way he currently does.
2007-05-19 19:15:05
131.   gpellamjr
Physioc is very uncomfortable with Hudler saying something good about a Dodger and not an Angel.
2007-05-19 19:15:14
132.   Greg Brock
128 At least for the Summer, maybe longer (crosses various appendages).
2007-05-19 19:15:54
133.   bhsportsguy
130 Nice bounceback for Mr. Kershaw.
2007-05-19 19:16:11
134.   D4P
If I had a nickel for every pitch seen by Pierre and Nomar, I wouldn't have much money.
2007-05-19 19:16:23
135.   overkill94
This seems like the game we should have had Saenz at DH. All our current starters have warning track power, but Saenz has the muscle to put one out.
2007-05-19 19:17:27
136.   bhsportsguy
130 Who are your top 5 picks for the Dodgers as we are a little less than 3 weeks away from the draft.
2007-05-19 19:17:46
137.   D4P
All our current starters have warning track power

Juan takes that as a compliment

2007-05-19 19:18:18
138.   Honoluludodger
I don't think that this new Dodger Centerfielder is as good as advertised. He popped out tonight swinging at 2-0 an 1-0 counts. He might not be worth 45 million.
2007-05-19 19:18:19
139.   Jon Weisman
Hendrickson: 36 pitches through four innings.
2007-05-19 19:19:09
140.   Greg Brock
I don't know what bothers me more. The steroid era, or that the Dodgers seemed like they never cashed in on it.

Soap-opera cameo, studly catchers aside.

2007-05-19 19:19:25
141.   Bob Timmermann
Before tonight's game, you would have had $62.95.
2007-05-19 19:20:06
142.   Bob Timmermann
Give D4P, a $1.80 for Hendrickson.
2007-05-19 19:20:13
143.   bhsportsguy
Vinny doesn't read DT.
2007-05-19 19:20:29
144.   regfairfield
I watched the Dodgers starters take batting practice yesterday and not one of them hit a home run.

Draw your own conclusions.

2007-05-19 19:21:42
145.   Greg Brock
144 They were working on situational hitting.

Situations where they cannot hit home runs.

2007-05-19 19:21:45
146.   imperabo
Ok I figured it out. Bob isn't human. He's a new secret prototype search engine being beta tested in Dodger Thoughts.
2007-05-19 19:23:45
147.   Andrew Shimmin
134- Even less if you only had a Stanley Nickel, per.
2007-05-19 19:25:38
148.   bhsportsguy
I think that is the 4th run scored by the Angels on outs in this series.
2007-05-19 19:26:02
149.   Eric Enders
I'm not sure conceding the run there is a good idea when you have an offense like ours.
2007-05-19 19:26:28
150.   Bob Timmermann
Coming into tonight, Pierre had seen one more pitch than Garciaparra, 630-629. Martin had the most on the team with 640.

Brian Roberts of Baltimore leads the majors in pitches seen at 813 coming into tonight.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-05-19 19:26:40
151.   D4P
The Google leads me to believe that's a "The Office" reference

aka Scioscia-ball

2007-05-19 19:26:44
152.   bhsportsguy
147 How many Stanley Nickels per Andrew dollars.
2007-05-19 19:27:11
153.   Eric Enders
I guess it's indicative of how much attention I pay to the Angels that, until yesterday, I had no idea Willits was a member of the Reggie Cleveland All-Stars.
2007-05-19 19:27:49
154.   Andrew Shimmin
152- It's the same ratio as unicorns to leprechauns, of course.
2007-05-19 19:27:52
155.   natepurcell
130 136

yea, i was worried it was going to cause a chain reaction similar to what happened to greg miller but clayton bounced back nicely. I remember a blurb from logan white saying he thinks clayton might move faster through the minors then billingsley did. at this moment, i dont think thats going to happen. In billingsleys first full year, he reached AA by midseason. Kershaw might reach high A before the year is over.

in regards to the draft, I like a good amount of players but they wouldnt necessarily be great value at the 20th pick.

at 20...

jarrod parker
matt harvey
josh smoker
todd frazier
jack mcgeary

at 39...

joe savery (if he can shows signs his health is back)
kentrail davis (love his batspeed)
tim alderson (something about him intrigues me alot)

2007-05-19 19:27:53
156.   D4P
Why doesn't Figgins get an RBI for that?
2007-05-19 19:28:21
157.   Bob Timmermann
Reggie Willits given first name is Reggie.
2007-05-19 19:29:06
158.   Bob Timmermann
Because you can't get an RBI when you ground into a DP.

That's just the way it is.

2007-05-19 19:29:24
159.   bhsportsguy
Greg Maddux face 7 batters, gave up 4 hits, including a home run, for two runs and he only made 19 pitches for less than 3 pitches a batter.
2007-05-19 19:30:00
160.   natepurcell
warning track power!!!
2007-05-19 19:30:13
161.   D4P
Because you can't get an RBI when you ground into a DP

But if there had been no runner at first, and Figgins were thrown out at first, he'd get an RBI? That's just plain stupid. I won't stand for it.

2007-05-19 19:30:16
162.   Bluebleeder87

[chuckling as i read it]

2007-05-19 19:30:40
163.   Bob Timmermann
Rule 10.04 (b) The official scorer shall not credit a run batted in
(1) when the batter grounds into a force double play or a reverse-force double play; or
(2) when a fielder is charged with an error because the fielder muffs a throw at first base that would have completed a force double play.
2007-05-19 19:32:02
164.   Joshua Worley
144 --- Obviously the BP pitcher had filthy stuff!
2007-05-19 19:32:06
165.   Bob Timmermann
Rule 10.04 (a) The official scorer shall credit the batter with a run batted in for every run that scores
(1) unaided by an error and as part of a play begun by the batter's safe hit (including the batter's home run), sacrifice bunt, sacrifice fly, infield out or fielder's choice, unless Rule 10.04(b) applies;
(2) by reason of the batter becoming a runner with the bases full (because of a base on balls, an award of first base for being touched by a pitched ball or for interference or obstruction); or
(3) when, before two are out, an error is made on a play on which a runner from third base ordinarily would score.
2007-05-19 19:32:06
166.   Bluebleeder87
We seem to be getting allot of fly balls bunt we just can't hit them over the fence.
2007-05-19 19:32:33
167.   natepurcell
in BAs first mock, they have matt wieters dropping to 19th...

if he drops to 20, you HAVE TO PICK HIM. i mean, this isnt a hochevar situation (well it is), but he deserves a major league contract. Although we have backstop bacon, wieters bat plays anywhere and he has plus plus arm strength.

2007-05-19 19:33:01
168.   overkill94
You can all stand down on Kelly Johnson's cycle alert, he lined out in his final at-bat and unless the Red Sox score 14 runs in the bottom of the 9th, he won't get any more chances.
2007-05-19 19:33:18
169.   scooplew
161 Those who ground in double plays, making 2/3rds of the outs allowed in an inning on one swing of the bat, should not be rewarded.
2007-05-19 19:33:39
170.   regfairfield
Henry Chadwick wanted you to bunt in that situation, so if you take a full swing and hit into a double play, you don't get an RBI, daggummit.
2007-05-19 19:33:51
171.   Greg Brock
Nobody told me we were playing at Forbes Field tonight.

Put the ball OVER the fence, kids.

2007-05-19 19:34:54
172.   Doctor
Dodgers just took the lead in runners left on base in the NL.
2007-05-19 19:35:17
173.   imperabo
163 I had no idea "muffs" was official terminology.
2007-05-19 19:36:33
174.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, the RBI didn't exist in Henry Chadwick's lifetime. Also, if you look in really old boxscores, you see a category called "earned runs" and those are charged to the offense and were runs that scored only because of hits without any walks, errors, wild pitches, or passed balls.
2007-05-19 19:36:58
175.   bhsportsguy
I am just happy when Vlad doesn't hit the ball out of the park.
2007-05-19 19:37:11
176.   Andrew Shimmin
Arizona held on to beat Pittsburgh, 9-8. Oh well.
2007-05-19 19:40:23
177.   Andrew Shimmin
Third consecutive game Hendrickson has given up five runs. Third consecutive game where not all of them were earned.
2007-05-19 19:40:37
178.   overkill94
Playing the Angels is pure karma for how we've been scoring runs lately
2007-05-19 19:41:00
179.   D4P
Steiner just said that someone was an Oregonian from Eugene, but I didn't hear who.
2007-05-19 19:41:26
180.   JoeyP
Too many bloopers and bleeders.
2007-05-19 19:41:29
181.   Greg Brock
No Quality Start for Lurch tonight.
2007-05-19 19:42:08
182.   regfairfield
174 Ah, quite true. Quite possibly the weird scoring decision that can't be explained by "Henry Chadwick wanted you to bunt in that situation".
2007-05-19 19:42:44
183.   Eric Enders
Time to trade Bearded Jesus while there's still a possibility of getting something for him? Obviously Billingley's ready to take over.
2007-05-19 19:42:56
184.   Doctor
Watching gameday- can someone please explain: "doubles on a pop up to ss furcal"?
2007-05-19 19:43:47
185.   Bob Timmermann
Baseball-reference lists just four MLB players as being born in Eugene:
Danny Ainge
Steve Baker
Harold Reynolds
Suds Sutherland
2007-05-19 19:43:52
186.   bhsportsguy
184 Infield in, so a pop fly drops in.
2007-05-19 19:44:01
187.   Bluebleeder87
call me crazy but i think we still have a fighting chance tonight.
2007-05-19 19:44:03
188.   Sammy Maudlin
Will someone please remove Henderson !
2007-05-19 19:44:16
189.   regfairfield
184 Pretty much what it sounds like, Quinlin hit a bloop single over the head of a drawn in Furcal.
2007-05-19 19:44:30
190.   gpellamjr
185 I would guess Ainge, then, given the circumstances.
2007-05-19 19:44:34
191.   overkill94
So who gets bumped from the rotation first, Tomko or Hendrickson?
2007-05-19 19:44:48
192.   Bob Timmermann
Bloop hit past a drawn in infield. Furcal ended up fielding the ball.
2007-05-19 19:45:12
193.   gpellamjr
Little has forgotten that you can remove Hendrickson without having to worry about its effect on the batting order.
2007-05-19 19:45:28
194.   bhsportsguy
The thing is getting a low pitch count against the Angels is not really indicative of how well you are doing since aside from a couple of guys, don't work pitchers that much.
2007-05-19 19:46:01
195.   StolenMonkey86
183 - I didn't know Jesus was that tall.

I always thought of Hendrickson as Shawn Bradley.

2007-05-19 19:46:22
196.   bhsportsguy
193 At what point do you take him out?
2007-05-19 19:48:01
197.   Bob Timmermann
Starting tonight, the Dodgers and Angels were 24th and 26th overall in pitches seen.

The Phillies have seen the most, followed by Oakland and Boston.

2007-05-19 19:48:12
198.   Terry A
196 - About a year ago.
2007-05-19 19:48:17
199.   Andrew Shimmin
Before the game starts. An ounce of prevention. . .
2007-05-19 19:48:37
200.   bhsportsguy
I believe over the last 2 years plus this weekend, the Dodgers have only won 1 AL road game.

That probably means two things, the pitchers have a hard time facing AL teams at home with the DH and the Dodgers don't really have a team that benefits with a DH.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-05-19 19:49:45
201.   bhsportsguy
He does much better as a pinch-hitter.
2007-05-19 19:49:50
202.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres DH tonight is Geoff Blum!
2007-05-19 19:50:38
203.   Andrew Shimmin
The only way I could be tempted to vote in the CarMax Poll is if the question were: Should Vin Scully really be subjected to reading this thing every night?
2007-05-19 19:50:42
204.   scooplew
For how much longer will Little continue to roll out Hendrickson and Tomko? Clearly, neither is effective any longer as a starter. Very frustrating.
2007-05-19 19:50:50
205.   bhsportsguy
199 They are not winning no matter who is pitching if they can only score 3 runs in 15 innings in an AL park.
2007-05-19 19:50:53
206.   JoeyP
Tomko gets bumped.
I think they'll keep Hendrickson in a couple more starts bc he's a lefty.

But Hendrickson's may 2007 is mirroring last may. Very mediocre.

2007-05-19 19:52:11
207.   Andrew Shimmin
Way to go Lieberthal. I finally feel like it was worth learning to spell your name.
2007-05-19 19:52:31
208.   Bob Timmermann
Other NL DHs today:
Matt Diaz
Jarrod Saltalamacchia
Scott Spiezio
Ken Griffey
Josh Willingham
Barry Bonds
2007-05-19 19:52:54
209.   StolenMonkey86
203 - What's the poll question?
2007-05-19 19:53:52
210.   StolenMonkey86
scott shields replaces scott shields
2007-05-19 19:54:00
211.   bhsportsguy
204 I believe they were 4-1 in games started by Hendrickson, so while he may not be setting the world on fire, he did enough to keep them in games. I'm all for Tomko going, he really has not done much since his first start.
2007-05-19 19:54:03
212.   gpellamjr
I really should go read about sainthood in the later medieval period.
2007-05-19 19:54:49
213.   Bluebleeder87
Scott Shields, I must admit I'm a HUGE fan of his.
2007-05-19 19:55:23
214.   Andrew Shimmin
209- How often should there be interleague games? Ever year? Every other year? Never? Every year is up big, something like seventy percent of the votes.
2007-05-19 19:56:13
215.   Bob Timmermann
I was going to do that too, but I have some TV shows saved up on the DVR.
2007-05-19 19:57:14
216.   Bluebleeder87
Shields does have his little melt downs so i'm still holding some glimmer of hope.
2007-05-19 19:58:59
217.   StolenMonkey86
214 - wow that's stupid. No option like "every year, but only 1 series per year" or something like that, I see.
2007-05-19 19:59:22
218.   Greg Brock
The faster this team takes the offensive nosedive (which, I know you don't all agree that it will), the faster The Mustache or Little will make a change.

Is that good? Bad? No idea.

2007-05-19 20:01:19
219.   StolenMonkey86
218 - Little change? Might be good.

Mustache change? If it's not shaving the mustache, bad.

2007-05-19 20:01:31
220.   Bob Timmermann
So you're like Dr. House trying to make a patient sicker so it would be easier to figure out what's wrong with him?
2007-05-19 20:02:45
221.   Andrew Shimmin
They were 4-2 in games Hendrickson started, before today. 3-4 in games started by Tomko. Neither are either the fourth or fifth best starting pitcher on the Dodgers roster. If I had to pick one to keep, I'd keep Tomko because at least he's FA at the end of the year.
2007-05-19 20:03:16
222.   Bob Timmermann
Mariners up 6-1 on the Padres in the third.
2007-05-19 20:04:04
223.   Greg Brock
Everybody lies. The stat sheet does not.

{pops pill, limps off to emo music}

2007-05-19 20:06:18
224.   Andrew Shimmin
The Rolling Stones are emo?
2007-05-19 20:07:29
225.   overkill94
Is there an alert level for a guy having a double and HR when it's only the third inning? How about chartreuse?
2007-05-19 20:07:37
226.   k0b3
this offense (pierre and gonzo) is absolutely this july? something better get done
2007-05-19 20:09:19
227.   Greg Brock
244 The songs vary. Sometimes they're very good. Sometimes they are not.

That's it. Andrew is Chase.

2007-05-19 20:11:25
228.   Jon Weisman
Tim Brown column on the Aybars - see update above.
2007-05-19 20:12:08
229.   Bluebleeder87
Let's go down fight at least Dodgers, come on!
2007-05-19 20:13:27
230.   Jon Weisman
Matthews made a great play on that - stopped what might have been a triple and nearly through Pierre out at second.
2007-05-19 20:14:45
231.   Andrew Shimmin
Gonzalez is doing well this year. His power is mostly gone, which was to be expected, being old and moving out of the BOB. But he's getting on base a lot, and his sOPS+ for LF was 105 going into today's game; so he's been a better than average offensive LF. His arm is shot, and he isn't cheap, but the Dodgers actually are getting about what was to be expected out of LuGo. LuGo is this year's Lofton.
2007-05-19 20:14:58
232.   scooplew
Hendrickson was quite effective in his first three starts -- 2 earned runs in 16 2/3 innings, 13 strikeouts, 4 walks and no homers. But in his last three, including tonight, he's allowed 12 earned runs in 17 innings, struck out 6, walked 9 and given up 4 homers. It's time to look elsewhere for a starter.
2007-05-19 20:15:43
233.   Greg Brock
Nomar's OPS is dangerously close to dipping below .700 on the season.
2007-05-19 20:17:05
234.   Bluebleeder87

some good news.

2007-05-19 20:17:36
235.   bhsportsguy
Last night, Lake Elsinore won 30-0 in a Cal League contest and then tonight after two innings, they led 9-1, and then 10-5. But Lancaster showed that Antelope Valley spirit and has taken the lead for now, 14-12.
2007-05-19 20:18:51
236.   Bluebleeder87

i meant let's at least go down fighting, sorry about that guys.

2007-05-19 20:19:46
237.   Honoluludodger
233. This team is pathetic.
2007-05-19 20:20:24
238.   Bob Timmermann
It's 7-1 Mariners in the fourth. The M's have 11 hits off of Maddux already.
2007-05-19 20:21:51
239.   Andrew Shimmin
Think of how much joy, spread out over how many years, watching Chad Billingsley will bring us. Let us all bask in the warm, glowing, warming-glow of that.
2007-05-19 20:21:56
240.   Greg Brock
Gameday isn't cooperating. Can somebody tell me what Billingsley's PFX looks like this inning?

I need to know.

2007-05-19 20:25:27
241.   bhsportsguy
240 Not quite as dominating as his past starts but after a solid single with two out, he got his third ground ball for a force play.
2007-05-19 20:25:43
242.   Bluebleeder87
inquirer reminds from Greg Brock. 238 even better.
2007-05-19 20:25:45
243.   Honoluludodger
239. That is an excellent point. But will we be robbed of that joy during that same period as we are also forced to watch The Player dink his way from game to game.
2007-05-19 20:26:53
244.   Honoluludodger
239,243 Logan White giveth and Ned taketh away.
2007-05-19 20:27:56
245.   bhsportsguy
Dodger DHs are 0-8 this series, so no advantage for them thus far.
2007-05-19 20:31:58
246.   bhsportsguy
245 But their 9th place hitters have two doubles thus far.

244 Logan White is not infallible, his 2004 draft where he had 3 No. 1 picks has not exactly done very well outside of Elbert, who still has control issues and some injury concerns.

I'm not saying that he hasn't led the Scouting Department to hopefully a place where they have not been for a long time but to say Logan White hasn't made mistakes or reaches would be wrong.

2007-05-19 20:32:04
247.   StolenMonkey86
236 - I figure no point in clearing benches if I can't see it; wait till such a game is on ESPN.
2007-05-19 20:32:54
248.   Eric Enders
245 Lieberthal's one hit should be counted in the DH column, since Martin would have been playing regardless.
2007-05-19 20:33:40
249.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers have had only three DHs hit home runs:
Chad Kreuter in 2001
Mike Kinkade in 2003
Olmedo Saenz in 2004

Kreuter and Kinkade homered in Anaheim and Saenz homered in Boston.

2007-05-19 20:35:08
250.   D4P
If I were to designate Chad Kreuter and Mike Kinkade, it would be for assignment, not for hitting.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-05-19 20:35:32
251.   bhsportsguy
I think there will be a change in the pitching area before something happens with the everyday lineup.
2007-05-19 20:36:31
252.   Greg Brock
Aw, man...I did not need to read the name Mike Kinkade tonight.
2007-05-19 20:36:52
253.   bhsportsguy
Okay, I am throwing this out for everyone and I will abide but the first response, should I go out now and see Spiderman III.

Yeahs or Nays please.

2007-05-19 20:38:16
254.   Andrew Shimmin
I must be going soft in the head. Something D4P said made me laugh? Very weird.
2007-05-19 20:38:25
255.   Gen3Blue
I noticed that our pitching was much praised until the middle of May. In fact at one point it looked like our pitching stats might surpass the mighty Mets.
I must admit I haven't checked lately, because I had noticed one thing. Looking back into April, it was amazing to see the number of times we had given up 1 or 2 runs in the first or second inning. This has to have a terrible effect on a team. I haven't followed through on this to see what we won or lossed. But I am sure little good can come from being put behind at the onset.
2007-05-19 20:39:06
256.   Bluebleeder87

that's strange i would expect Eric Karros name to be in there some where, guess not.247 figure of speech only. i'm gonna watch the Jermaine Taylor fight & call in a night, early game for me tomorrow.

2007-05-19 20:40:10
257.   Honoluludodger
2007-05-19 20:41:41
258.   Bob Timmermann
In 2002, Jeff Reboulet started at DH for the Dodgers for one game.
2007-05-19 20:48:29
259.   Gen3Blue
We don't have to worry much about the scouting dept. for a while. These things come in bunches, and we at present have a bunch of high level prospects. We certainly won't have to worry about many picks for a few years, nor should we, as they would be a distraction. We can't even give the prosects we have a chance, and we won't get many good picks for a while. This game is cyclical.
2007-05-19 20:48:35
260.   trainwreck
I would vote NO on Spiderman 3.
2007-05-19 20:54:43
261.   Gen3Blue
Spiderman 3 is a nay. Tobey's promising career I hope is not dead.
2007-05-19 20:55:25
262.   Greg Brock
260 First pic of Ledger as the Joker is slowly being released, pixel by pixel, in a viral campaign from Warners. I'll cut out the nonsense and just give you the pic:


2007-05-19 21:07:14
263.   bhsportsguy
260 Thanks.

I'll just watch Heroes reruns.

2007-05-19 21:09:28
264.   Greg Brock
I sure hope Bob's brother didn't have to sit through the Taylor/Spinks fight.

Egads. Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.

2007-05-19 21:20:33
265.   bhsportsguy
Whew, Padres load bases with one out and Gonzalez lines into a double play. Ted Leitner must be dying, figuratively of course.

7-4 Mariners at the 7th inning stretch.

2007-05-19 21:22:24
266.   Frip
Apparently "tomorrow" sucked as bad as last night. Hope is such a pitiful delusion.
2007-05-19 21:36:38
267.   dzzrtRatt
Aw come on you guys. We're one day closer to Tomko/Hendrickson being replaced by Billingsley/Kuo. This is inevitable. There is a market for Tomko and Hendrickson. It's called the last-place NY Yankees. Tomko or Hendrickson would represent upgrades to at least one starting slot. Ditto Texas, St. Louis, Philadelphia and a few other would-be contenders. Reeelaaaax.
2007-05-19 21:44:06
268.   JoeyP
Need some opinions on fantasy baseball:

Ryan Howard's my 1st basemen, he's hurt.
I can pick from either Dan Johnson or Richie Sexson to play the position till Howard's healthy.

Would you play Dan Johnson--and hope he continues his pretty good play--or play Richie Sexson--reasoning that Sexson cannot possibly be this bad all year?

I'm playing Sexson right now, but doesn anyone think Sexson could be washed up? He got off to a slow start last year too and got better.

2007-05-19 21:50:56
269.   Bumsrap
As the team is composed right now, no trades need to be made. Just switch Bills and Kuo into the rotation and Tomko and Hendrickson out.

That and platoon Loney and Garciapara. Loney plays road games, Nomar plays home games.

As for CF, Kemp could hit against left handers and against right handers, Kemp could hit.

2007-05-19 22:00:04
270.   natepurcell
i think where white "brings home the bacon" (get it...backstop bacson!?!?!) are his late round gems. Playes picked after the first 3 rounds or so that have done well enough to become legit prospects and mlb players.

that said, the 2004 and 2005 drafts are looking lackluster right now.

2007-05-19 22:02:40
271.   jtrichey
Anyone tell me where I can find hitters ground to fly data? I saw someone here reference Juan Pierre's numbers a few days ago, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. thanks
2007-05-19 22:04:17
272.   natepurcell
2004 would have been neat if David Price and Joe Savery signed :)
2007-05-19 22:06:34
273.   bhsportsguy
I will give him a pass on 2005, its pretty hard to have a good one without a first round pick and not signing your first pick.

But Meloan may turn out to be a good pick and the Joshes, Bell and Wall, have time on their side.

If Elbert turns out to be the pitcher he has been projected to be, than 2004 should be okay. Olendurf appears to be rehabbing well after surgery.

2007-05-19 22:10:20
274.   natepurcell

orenduff is coming back well although the walks are a bit expected. I wonder if he is throwing just as hard as he did before he got hurt. 2005 still has alot of intriging talent. like you said, the joshes are intrigin and so is Scott Van Slyke, who is outplaying Bell right now and has excellent growth potential with his 6'5 195lb frame. I think Steven Johnson has been shut down with tendonitis.

2007-05-19 22:11:30
275.   natepurcell
I wonder if new scouting director, Tim Hallgren is going to approach the draft differently then white did.
2007-05-19 22:13:40
276.   natepurcell
i just came across this pdf file..

ive never seen it before!

2007-05-19 22:17:32
277.   natepurcell
Alex White, our 14th round pick last draft that had high bonus demands is doing pretty well in his first season with the Tarheels...

76.1IP 71H 37bb 72K 3HR 3.66ERA

2007-05-19 22:19:50
278.   CanuckDodger
270 -- You mean the two drafts that White conducted while serving under DePodesta? I was pretty angry when DePodesta was fired, but learning that DePodesta forced White to draft Hochevar when White thought that was a bad idea really changed my mind about DePodesta. You screw around with Logan White, you've got to go. In 2004, DePodesta wanted DeWitt drafted with our first pick, but White wanted Elbert and assured him that Dewitt would still be available for our second pick, and of course going with the college pitcher Orenduff was meant to keep DePodesta happy. And Cory Dunlap? Moneyball player all the way. The 2004 and 2005 Dodger drafts appear to be the result of two men with incompatible views trying to compromise with each other. When I hear about White lavishing praise on Colletti, I always think that it can be interpreted as code for "Thank God I have a GM who will stay off my back and let me do my job the way I want."
2007-05-19 22:20:04
279.   Xeifrank
271. Try ESPN's baseball stat page for hitters and then click on the "sabermetric" tab/link. There's probably better sites though. vr, Xei
2007-05-19 22:21:50
280.   bhsportsguy
276 Actually, that's an annual part of the media guide.
2007-05-19 22:25:52
281.   natepurcell

yea i knew it wasnt anything knew to anyone else but to me, i've never seen it before!

2007-05-19 22:26:31
282.   natepurcell

i dont really understand why Depo wanted Dewitt so much.

2007-05-19 22:33:35
283.   bhsportsguy
Its a good thing the Water Polo team won last week, the Softball team, who had advanced to Softball World Series every year that they had been in the playoffs, lost to Loyola Marymont for the first time in 20 games and was eliminated from the playoffs.

Now, UCLA was only ranked 12 and was not as strong as other years but in the world of softball, a pretty big deal.

UCLA's Men Tennis team lost to No. 1 Seed Georgia today too so to recent champions are out on the same day.

2007-05-19 22:34:05
284.   CanuckDodger
282 -- DePo saw DeWitt play and really liked what he saw. Now unlike Dunlap, whom White no doubt picked to placate DePo, I am sure White liked DeWitt too, as White likes pure hitters with pretty left-handed swings, but if DePo had had his way we would have got DeWitt and lost Elbert, because Elbert sure would not have lasted to the end of the first round.
2007-05-19 22:35:52
285.   JoeyP
278--Since when did all the bad picks become DePodesta's fault, and all the good picks become soley Logan White's success stories?

There's a reason why drafting college players is a good idea. Generally lower risk, more sample size to judge how talented the players are and could develop into. The A's have gotten out tremendous production out of Joe Blanton and Nick Swisher, and contract that with the Dodgers picking of Greg Miller/Chad Billingsley.

Cory Dunlap/Orenduff bad picks you say? I'll raise you a Xavier Paul, Zach Hammes, and Chuck Tiffany. Perhaps a Josh Wall, and an Ivan DeJesus.

I dont completely agree with Scareduck's assessment of the Dodger youngsters, but I think you Canuck really overvalue what their true value to the Dodgers have been.

Russ Martin's a star--no question.
Matt Kemp--hope he works out. He needs to play.
Loney--bust at this point. He's a 1st basemen that doesnt hit like a 1st basemen should. Maybe he'll develop, maybe he wont? But there's others from his class already producing.
Broxton--he's good, but he's a middle reliever. How much value does he really have?
Billingsley--I hope he has as much success as Blanton, but its not like he's a sure fire superstar yet.
LaRoche---He's been good so far, but he needs to play 2nd base in order to be a legit difference making player.

The Dodgers dont need to be self reliant on the farm system given their payroll, but they do need to produce a core of good young players. Martin I think is the only guy thus far to prove he's one of those.

2007-05-19 22:35:55
286.   CanuckDodger
282 -- DePo saw DeWitt play and really liked what he saw. Now unlike Dunlap, whom White no doubt picked to placate DePo, I am sure White liked DeWitt too, as White likes pure hitters with pretty left-handed swings, but if DePo had had his way we would have got DeWitt and lost Elbert, because Elbert sure would not have lasted to the end of the first round.
2007-05-19 22:36:15
287.   CanuckDodger
282 -- DePo saw DeWitt play and really liked what he saw. Now unlike Dunlap, whom White no doubt picked to placate DePo, I am sure White liked DeWitt too, as White likes pure hitters with pretty left-handed swings, but if DePo had had his way we would have got DeWitt and lost Elbert, because Elbert sure would not have lasted to the end of the first round.
2007-05-19 22:38:47
288.   natepurcell
hmmm looking at the player index, an international player that we might hear more about this upcoming summer could be Pedro Noboa. His stats in the dominican summer league jumped out at me. hes a 6'1 170lb RHP and in his 19yr old season last year he put up this line..

10GS 2.38ERA 64.1IP 51H 1HR 10bb 70k

I think he could be brought over to the US this summer.

2007-05-19 22:39:46
289.   JoeyP
270--Exactly right.
The Dodgers benefit from having the deeper pockets that others team dont, meaning they can take a guy in the 40th round that no other team thinks will sign (Like a LaRoche), then they can throw a gob of money at him and get him to sign.

That in and of itself, doenst take much scouting acumen, and I'm not going to give Logan White credit for doing that.

While White can be given credit for getting Russ Martin, Kemp, in the later rounds---The Dodgers have pretty much eliminated scouting the Latin America countries, and that falls on White's plate IMO.

White isnt irreplaceable to the Dodgers. His drafting record looks good compared to whom came before him with regards to the Dodger picks, but other teams have been relying on their farm systems for years to be competitive. The Dodgers dont even have to do that, they just need a couple guys to work out each year.

2007-05-19 22:43:16
290.   natepurcell
im looking forward to canucks response to 285.

after you're done with that response canuck, talk to me about Todd Frazier and why I shouldnt pick him at 20 :)

2007-05-19 22:45:45
291.   natepurcell
The Dodgers benefit from having the deeper pockets that others team dont, meaning they can take a guy in the 40th round that no other team thinks will sign (Like a LaRoche), then they can throw a gob of money at him and get him to sign.

to be fair, laroche is the only one that they threw money at. That said, they still drafted him, they still scouted him in the cap league in the summer and they still got him signed and away from rice. You should give white credit for those things.

The Dodgers have pretty much eliminated scouting the Latin America countries, and that falls on White's plate IMO.

thats not whites fault. he was never incharge of international scouting up until this year when he was promoted.

2007-05-19 22:46:13
292.   JoeyP
I fear I've stoked the wratch of Canuck, not intentionally btw. I'm not trying to pick an argument, and I definitely dont claim to know as much about the draft as Canuck/Nate do, but just in general terms I dont think Logan White is necessary to the Ddogers winning (given their payroll). I think he's an asset, but if he left I think the Dodgers could still win.
2007-05-19 23:28:50
293.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-05-19 23:30:20
294.   CanuckDodger
285 -- I had almost grown nostalgic for a JoeyP post that has so much wrong with it I could write a dissertation-length critique and would be just barely scratching the surface. I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.

(1). "All the bad picks being DePo's fault and all the good ones being to White's credit" over-simplifies my position. I don't think DePo made any picks as such outside of Hochevar, but he clearly did encourage White to weave in prototypical Moneyball players with his high schoolers, with the Hochevar pick being a disaster and the Moneyball players all looking suspect or worse. And White is always sharing his credit for good picks with his scouts, so I am not saying he should get sole credit for any of his successes, outside of Kemp, whom White personally "discovered."

(2). Drafting college players is not an inherently good idea, and drafting them religiously is an outright bad idea, as exemplified by the Blue Jays' farm system with its abundance of low-ceiling future bench players and fifth starters.

(3). College statistics are completely useless for determining the talent of players and projecting their future suitability to play in the majors.

(4). Nick Swisher and Joe Blanton were favorites of scouts in the 2002 draft. Billingsley was picked a year later so I don't know why you mentioned him in comparison with the two 2002 Oakland guys. Swisher and Blanton were off the board before Miller was picked, but Oakland picked two other college pitchers around the neighborhood where Miller was pickled, Ben Fritz and Steve Obenchain, both big time busts. Miller is still a prospect with a high ceiling, and at 22-years-old in Triple A, he is the exact same age that Swisher and Blanton were when they were starting their first full pro seasons in the LOW minors in 2003 (Blanton actually spent most of his age 22 year in the low A Midwest League, in the same league that Kershaw and Mattingly and the like are playing in fresh out of high school, three full levels below where Miller is now). Since you mentioned Billinsgley -- who has a higher ceiling than Blanton and whom every team in baseball would prefer over Blanton, including the A's -- I will note that Oakland chose an elite college pitcher named Brad Sullivan (25th overall) right after the Dodgers picked Billingsley (24th overall) in 2003, and Sullivan is a huge bust.

(5). Zach Hammes, Xavier Paul, and Ivan DeJesus, Jr. are all good prospects who uncontroversially rate higher than Dunlap in prospect evaluation circles, and I and others rate them higher than Orenduff too. Wall's value lies in his projection, so we will see what happens with him as he ages, and he certainly has the capacity to show great improvement given his long, skinny frame. Tiffany was just fine until shoulder problems struck, but college pitchers get hurt too, and that is what happened to Orenduff. From your past posts, you seem to think only high school pitchers get injured. I have never said anything so silly about college picthers. ALL young pitchers have a high risk of injury.

(6). Loney is not a bust. It is ridiculous to allege such a thing. He should be in the majors right now, but Colletti stupidly blocked him.

(7). Broxton is a set-up man, not just any old middle reliever, and that role does not represent his ceiling. On a team without Saito or someone comparable, Broxton would be closing right now, and be an elite talent doing that job. Elite closers in the free agent market are paid like front-line starters. Broxton has a lot of value any way you slice it.

2007-05-19 23:33:15
295.   Jon Weisman
Canuck, I'll have a Hochevar comment in the next thread.

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