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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Kuo Up, LaRoche Down
2007-06-01 20:50
by Jon Weisman

The Dodgers finally pulled the expected trigger, calling up Hong-Chih Kuo and sending down Andy LaRoche, according to Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise.

Update: It continues to depress me to see batting average used as the sole statistic in talking about ballplayers. Everywhere you look, writers are talking about how Tony Abreu's batting average is higher than Andy LaRoche's, without mentioning the more important news that LaRoche's on-base percentage is higher than Abreu's.

Remember how LaRoche was getting all those so-called gift walks by batting low in the order (only they weren't really all gifts)? Abreu has none this season. Still, LaRoche gets no credit.

It's nothing personal against Abreu, who has a higher slugging percentage than LaRoche in their short MLB experiences this year, to ask that if you're going to talk about batting average, talk about it in context. I understand that a single can be more valuable than a walk. Nevertheless, the fact remains that LaRoche has a higher OPS+ and EQA than Abreu. The way LaRoche's walks have been relentlessly dismissed by so many is troublesome; there is a very strong case to be made that LaRoche has been the more productive player. (Abreu is a short three-game slump away from having the same batting average as LaRoche, without the walks. Hopefully, Abreu can avoid that.)

LaRoche, frankly, may be better off playing full-time in Las Vegas than part-time in Los Angeles, and I was never certain he deserved his May callup to begin with. But to say that LaRoche was sent down because he had a lower batting average justifies the Dodgers' decision in over-simplistic terms. If that's the reason being given, it's not enough.

Comments (148)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-06-01 20:54:25
1.   gpellamjr
A friend just asked me: "Who's your favorite baseball announcer?"

He seriously asked me this. Seriously.

My response: "That's like asking a Christian who his favorite god is."

2007-06-01 20:57:26
2.   Greg Brock
1 Is it Vishnu?

All in all, LaRoche didn't hit very much, but I'm disappointed with how they handled his first trip up to the big club. I don't think giving the kid the starting job for a couple weeks and 60 AB's was too much to ask.

2007-06-01 21:00:43
3.   Andrew Shimmin
This is a giant three card monte. We're being asked to pretend that the problem with this team is at 3B; it isn't. It's in CF and at 1B. We can all hope that Nomar will come around, and we can all hope that Pierre stops being terrible. But those are the parts of the lineup that are performing badly and the parts where fixing them would be of the greatest marginal utility. Outside of replacing Hendrickson with somebody who isn't bad. If Colletti does something about either, then worrying about Ethier and 3B could be worthwhile. But he hasn't. And he won't.
2007-06-01 21:02:34
4.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose
So, I guess the Dodgers front office doesnt care for sample size? or Laroche's OBP . .In a few at bats Abreu wins the job it seems, in a few AB"s Andy looses it. . I just dont want to hear the Dodgers complaining about limited power
2007-06-01 21:04:22
5.   Jim Dean
just wondering: July rolls around and Yanks are still out of it. Would you guys trade two of LaRoche, Loney, and/or Kemp for A-Rod?
2007-06-01 21:07:08
6.   Greg Brock
5 That's not going to happen. Uber prospects for rental A-Rod would be a big, big mistake. Maybe Loney, but I doubt it highly.

And Ned likes character. Or so we're told. He likes certain types of character. He sort of picks and chooses, actually.

2007-06-01 21:09:33
7.   JoeyP
After Abreu motors towards Wilson Valdez line (55 Abs, 1bb, .236/.263/.309)...I think the Dodgers will reconsider.

Abreu as of right now:
(26Abs, 0bbs, .308/.296/.423)

Pretty rare for your BA to be above your OBP.

2007-06-01 21:10:45
8.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose

We know the problem in CF will continue and first base seems to be what the Dodges are content with. The problem is Ned is only willing to fix the problems which the are socially acceptable. The general public wouldnt allow Nomar to be benched. so, Ned fearfull of being unpopular goes after 3B which on the scale of problems is quite low

2007-06-01 21:12:55
9.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose
Pretty rare for your BA to be above your OBP

how is that even possible?

2007-06-01 21:13:49
10.   CanuckDodger
5 -- No trades, period. We either have what we need in the organization now, or we do without and see what happens. Every year we go through this, with people wanting a big superstar to come to L.A. in a mid-season deal to take us to the promised land. Screw that.
2007-06-01 21:14:50
11.   Andrew Shimmin
9- The denominator in BA is ABs. The Denominator in OBP is PAs. A player with at least one sac fly or bunt, and no walks or HBPs, will have a lower OBP than BA.
2007-06-01 21:20:55
12.   underdog
I don't understand these comparisons of Abreu and Valdez. Have I read the wrong scouting reports? I certainly don't see a similarity in their talent or their approach. Nor in their ages. I'm not expecting him to become an all-star mind you, but I see a better chance of that happening than with Wilson Valdez. Let's just say, if the Dodgers waived him (which they wouldn't), someone would pick him up in a flash. Separate from that, I do wish LaRoche had been given more of a chance, but I think he knows and I know that he'll be back up.
2007-06-01 21:23:37
13.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose

makes sense now . . .

2007-06-01 21:24:08
14.   underdog
5 Not that Cashman and Colletti will consult with any of us ;-) but no, not all those guys - especially with the thought that A-Rod would likely walk after the season anyway. But a trade would have to be more like LaRoche and Kuo and another veteran player. The Dodgers have no outfield depth in the minors so giving up top prospect Kemp would be a major mistake imho.
2007-06-01 21:26:49
15.   overkill94
11 In one of Alfonso Soriano's first years with the Yankees, his OBP was lower than his BA after the first month.
2007-06-01 21:27:35
16.   ToyCannon
Joey has decided that Abreu is Valdez and that is that. The rest of us don't see the comparison because it doesn't exist. Joey doesn't believe in scouting reports, he's made that very clear.
He very well could fall toward the Valdez line as he gets more at bats and doesn't adjust in his 1st taste to the bigs but that still doesn't make the comparison work. He will eventually be a solid NL 2nd baseman while Valdez will eventually be employed as a coach.
2007-06-01 21:27:37
17.   Andrew Shimmin
12- It was JoeyP both times, right? Has anybody else compared him to Valdez? Not that JoeyP doesn't count, but his opinions aren't always widely held.
2007-06-01 21:28:11
18.   overkill94
And for those wondering about Dmitri Young's 8 hits in a row, the major league record is 12 in a row, but the NL record is only 10, done most recently by Matt Diaz last year.

I wouldn't care at all if Young wasn't on my fantasy team :)

2007-06-01 21:38:42
19.   Xeifrank
Glad to see that Guo is finally making his debut in the starting rotation. Just not looking forward to the announcers botching his name. Just hope there aren't too many regulars rested. vr, Xei
2007-06-01 21:39:00
20.   Marty
Where do we go after the Fighting Tracys? Philly?
2007-06-01 21:41:26
21.   ImChuck
I really don't think it'll matter much going with Abreu or LaRoche. Neither will hit for power at this point. Both will play solid defense. LaRoche might get on base more, but that OBP would've fallen. I'd rather have him get at bats everyday down in the minors. And split Abreu and Betemit at 3B. LaRoche is the better project; I wouldn't want him splitting time.
2007-06-01 21:43:26
22.   Daniel Zappala
Angels have the fourth best record in baseball, Dodgers are fifth. Good times.
2007-06-01 21:47:13
23.   Andrew Shimmin
20- San Diego.
2007-06-01 21:51:02
24.   underdog
16/17 - ah, okay. Thanks. I'll stop arguing about it. (Mostly with myself.)

21 I agree, for the most part. I think LaRoche will benefit from playing every day in AAA for awhile longer. Since they weren't feeling like playing him everyday up in the bigs, especially.

Tomorrow could be the Kuo then Hull show, like watching the 51s. Except hopefully they'll win.

2007-06-01 21:58:23
25.   LAT
The Bucs will beat a Dodger team consisting of Kuo, Hull, Liberthal, Abreu and JP and Tracy will give an hour interview on the virtues of beating a first rate team like the Dodgers.
2007-06-01 21:59:44
26.   Xeifrank
25. Is Lieberthal the announced starter tomorrow? vr, Xei
2007-06-01 22:03:08
27.   LAT
26. I think so.
2007-06-01 22:03:56
28.   Xeifrank
27. So much for Guo's run support tomorrow.
vr, Xei
2007-06-01 22:04:12
29.   JoeyP
If you dont like the Wilson Valdez comparison, how about Juan Pierre then.

Abreu's a contact hitter, with little power, that doesnt walk. Thats Juan Pierre.

Would anyone want Juan Pierre playing 3rd base?

2007-06-01 22:06:18
30.   JoeyP
16--I'm not saying Abreu will have Wilson Valdez's career. I'm saying in the short term (meaning this season), Abreu will probably match Valdez production, which is not acceptable for 3rd base.
2007-06-01 22:13:53
31.   ToyCannon
Can't argue with that. I don't think what Abreu can do is acceptable for 3b especially on team like the Dodgers who have limited power. For me the job should be Betemit's.

On the other hand I don't think he's close to JP. He's not nearly as fast and I think has much more power. When I've seen him play I've seen a gap to gap slasher not an infield hit/bunt type of guy. More like Orlando Hudson for me.

2007-06-01 22:14:42
32.   Bluebleeder87
Would anyone want Juan Pierre playing 3rd base?

nah he's lefty plus his noodle arm would probably bounce it to 1st.

2007-06-01 22:18:23
33.   Andrew Shimmin
Bold prediction: If given a reasonable shot, Abreu's season line will best Valdez's (.236/.263/.309) by a hundred OPS points. Prediction without any possibility of being borne out, in either direction: LaRoche would have been better.
2007-06-01 22:19:02
34.   CanuckDodger
29,30 -- Abreu has more power than Juan Pierre. He is stronger and can drive the ball. I think Abreu's production at 3B will be "acceptable" this season, just not ideal.

The key to the Dodgers winning games, like we have, is getting even small contributions from each player at EVERY position. With our pitching, we really can nickle and dime other teams to death. After tonight's game, we are on pace to finish the season with a record of 96-66. Things ARE working for the Dogders, while plenty of teams with big power bats are struggling trying to make it to .500.

2007-06-01 22:23:12
35.   underdog
No, but I wouldn't want Pierre playing centerfield either. ;-)

I do see now what you meant, but I still think Abreu will put up better numbers this year than Valdez. Then again, who knows where Abreu will be next month. Maybe the 3b tilt-a-whirl will tilt back to LaRoche, or Betemit. Round and round it goes, where it stops, no one knows!

2007-06-01 22:24:23
36.   underdog
34 I agree. It's funny, sometimes I read the comments here or even more so on some of the other blogs (ItD) and have to remind myself that the Dodgers are in first place.
2007-06-01 22:24:54
37.   Andrew Shimmin
Abreu is the fifteenth youngest player to debut this year.
2007-06-01 22:26:10
38.   Eric Enders
I think the Dodgers would just like for LaRoche to get hot, as he is almost guaranteed to do at some point this year. Whenever he starts pounding PCL pitching, I think he'll be exchanged for Abreu. I suspect the Dodgers don't think (and neither do I) that Abreu is fully formed yet, that he needs some more regular playing time in AAA to cement the gains it appears he's made this year. I really doubt he's going to be our 3B all year.

This will mean more playing time for Betemit, which is probably a good thing.

2007-06-01 22:28:56
39.   Greg Brock
I'm very pleased with the Dodgers performance this year. I'm just very skeptical the team can keep it up with this offense. The pitching has been fantastic, even with Schmidt out and Tomdrickson playing a substantial role.

I actually don't think people have been overly negative. There are just some lineup and personnel decisions that seem obvious, yet aren't done. Nine times out of ten, the complaints are valid.

It also goes with one playoff victory since my 11th year of life. Fans have earned the right to be skeptical and nervous.

2007-06-01 22:33:29
40.   Eric Enders
Also, more props for Billingsley, please. The guy did a convincing Eric Gagne impression tonight.

The real question for Kuo is, is this a one-time shot before he loses his spot to Schmidt, or is Hendrickson going to be sent back to the bullpen to make room for Schmidt? Either way, Billingsley seems to be the odd man out. Maybe the D's will finally do what they should have been doing all along, which is have Billingsley and Kuo share fifth starter duties.

Who gets sent down to AAA when Schmidt is ready? Hull. But then what happens when Tsao is ready? Do you send Kuo back down? DFA Tomko?

Lastly, Brady Clark is proving to be more and more useless as the season goes on. IMO he's got about a week, two max, before he's discarded in favor of the heating-up Kemp. You guys think Clark would clear waivers? And if so, would he agree to go to Vegas?

2007-06-01 22:37:13
41.   Eric Enders
39 I think most of the frustration, to the degree that it exists, is with the lack of meritocracy in the Dodger organization. On most teams, the guys who are the best players would get to play, and the guys who can't play would ride the bench. This year's Dodgers seem hell-bent to do exactly the opposite. Guys who stink and will probably continue to do so are given enough rope to circumnavigate the globe with. Guys who knock down the door only find the team building more doors in front of them.
2007-06-01 22:37:51
42.   LAT
Lest there be any doubt about whether we would be better off with Kenny Lofton, tonight he climbed the wall in dramatic fashion to take a game winning HR away from Beltre. Then threw out the runner at first.
2007-06-01 22:38:59
43.   Eric Enders
So, does that mean we should have kept Lofton but let Beltre go?
2007-06-01 22:39:55
44.   Eric Enders
Or kept both of them, because if Lofton was on our team with Beltre he wouldn't have been there to save Uncle Bil-- er, to rob Beltre of a home run.
2007-06-01 22:40:10
45.   Andrew Shimmin
I don't think Clark would clear waivers. Isn't every single Met OF hurt right now?
2007-06-01 22:43:02
46.   Greg Brock
45 Good. Clark and some middling prospect for Steroids Mota. Then we won't need Billingsley in the sixth and seventh so much and he can start.
2007-06-01 22:43:09
47.   LAT
40. On the radio tonight, Monday said Grady told him that he does'nt want to yo-yo Bills between starter and bullpen. He wants him to have stability.

Thats great but how about giving him the stability as a starter.

2007-06-01 22:48:26
48.   gpellamjr
37 Andrew Shimmin: sufficiently secure in his edginess to provide us with the most boring and useless stat of the day.
2007-06-01 22:52:36
49.   underdog
Those are fair points - I think we're all a little cynical given the last decade (or two) of Dodger history. I guess I'm just a little more optimistic about the future than all that.

As for Brady Clark, I would love to have Kemp, too, but I also want Kemp getting playing time. Every team needs someone like Clark who can just fill in for defense and the occasional at bat. Honestly, he's a better player than he's shown so far. I think he's just used to playing more than he has been. I guess I'd rather have Kemp than Clark but think they're almost different uses for both of them.

2007-06-01 22:54:52
50.   underdog
Okay, off topic here, but I was watching Pleasantville (for the 4th time) on TV while I was doing some work, and for the first time a question occurred to me. So he's on the Pleasantville basketball team (the ones that never miss a shot until they start getting distracted by girls), but if there's nothing outside of Pleasantville, as they learn in school, then who does their team play when they have games?

Your stumper of the evening!

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-06-01 22:59:39
51.   Eric Enders
50 The other team just materializes at the Pleasantville gym, and then they disappear after the game. There are no road games for Pleasantville.

That painting of Joan Allen is actually not half bad.

2007-06-01 22:59:54
52.   Greg Brock
50 They play Pleasantville Tech. Rival school.

How does Darth Vader go to the bathroom?

2007-06-01 23:00:01
53.   Jon Weisman
50 - They only play home games.
2007-06-01 23:02:10
54.   Eric Enders
52 Well, now we know why Vader's breathing is so labored.

Speaking of which, the trilogy (the real one) is playing on HBO right now. Looks great in Hi Def.

2007-06-01 23:03:05
55.   underdog
52 Just James Earl Jones' voice goes to the bathroom; it's too hard for the other guy to get out of the suit.

53 Yeah, I realize they only play home games but where does the team come from, or why don't they wonder...? Is it really P'ville Tech? Hm.

Ooh, I wonder if TVLand's gonna edit down the Joan Allen in the bathtub um... discovering herself... scene now.

2007-06-01 23:04:09
56.   underdog
Yep, they cut it short and right to the tree on fire.

Anyway... thanks. Now back to real sports.

2007-06-01 23:06:21
57.   Greg Brock
54 They're running all six episodes.

Nothing will ever be funnier than Fox execs telling Lucas that Chewbacca needed pants. They actually recommended lederhosen.

I think he would have lost his edge with lederhosen.

2007-06-01 23:09:55
58.   underdog
No, no, there are three episodes. And then six hours of filmed backstory that serve as bonus features
. Ahem.
2007-06-01 23:14:18
59.   Jon Weisman
55 - Pleasantville people don't think too hard about things.
2007-06-01 23:20:27
60.   Eric Enders
59 sounds like the opening line of a Merle Haggard song.
2007-06-01 23:23:16
61.   underdog
59 I'd be one of the "colored" folks in Pleasantville, for knowing and thinking too much.

Okay, I've got to read a script before I go to sleep so more coffee and less Pleasantville. "See" y'all tomorrow.

2007-06-01 23:42:16
62.   das411
Belated tip of the hat to the Eagles/49ers score in the last thread, which I actually read first on my old comp that has a picture from a game between those two teams in December '03 as my wallpaper!

And with all of the man-crushing on Russ Martin, why does anybody want him to start taking days off now (as in, before the All Star Game) instead of in September when everything is locked up?

2007-06-02 00:03:29
63.   scooplew
50 Another question: Where did the wives of Cain and Abel come from?
2007-06-02 00:04:08
64.   Marty
I'm watching Star Wars on HBO, and you know, it's not a very good movie. I think 2001 has aged better. And I'm not a big fan of 2001.
2007-06-02 00:18:20
65.   Andrew Shimmin
63- Neither took a wife. Abel was a little dead, and Cain was not well liked.
2007-06-02 00:30:45
66.   Andrew Shimmin
Unless I'm wrong, which is always the better bet when it comes to matters of the Bible.
2007-06-02 01:43:49
67.   bhsportsguy
In examining the first third of the 2007 season, there are two numbers that stick out for me 56 and 1.40.

56 is the difference between number of runs that the 2006 Dodgers scored versus the 2007 version, 298 runs to 242 runs.

Now, you would think that would make a huge impact unless you cut down the number of runs allowed by a similar amount. Well they have allowed less runs but only 17 less than last year.

But despite that the Dodgers are one game better at 32-22 than they were year ago. Why is that?

The second number, 1.4, is the number of strikeouts more per game that the Dodgers are getting per 9 IP. In all other pitching categories, aside from HR allowed, which is down from 51 to 32, the numbers are pretty close.

But perhaps, by not allowing the big blast as often and by getting one more batter per game to not put the ball in play, the Dodgers are making it harder to score those runs, in effect, making teams play the way the Dodgers offense has to get runs and because they are able to get that strikeout, they stop those big innings from occuring.

One more thing, last year, base stealers had stolen 42 out of 48 bases against Dodger batteries (Russell Martin joined the club in the first week of May). This year, the Russell and Mike have cut down 36.7% of the 49 runners trying to steal.

There is no question that offenses are down this season, for instance even though they are averaging a run less per game than last year, the Dodgers lead the NL West in runs per game.

2007-06-02 02:10:22
68.   bhsportsguy
Is the difference in one records between the two years at this point, in 2006, 4-8 at this point (would finish 20-20) and the 2007 glossy record of 12-4 due to a more stable bullpen?

One of the most overused and misunderstood stats is a team's record when leading after 8 innings. In general, no matter how small the lead, the team that is leading is going to win over 95% of the time. Last year, the Dodgers were 78-2 when leading after 8 innings and just about everyone who reads DT can recall those two losses since they happened on the road in a two week span.

But after that dark afternoon at AT&T, the Dodgers never loss again when leading after 8 innings. Last year, the team was 24-4 when leading after 6, 24-3 when leading after 7 and 28-2 when leading after 8 at the 54 games played marker.

This year, after tonite, 27-1 after 6 with a lead, 25-0 after 7 with a lead and 26-0 when leading after 8.

2007-06-02 04:22:31
69.   DXMachina
52 Catheter. That's why he was always so cranky.
2007-06-02 05:23:01
70.   D4P
Where did the wives of Cain and Abel come from?

In theory, all of Adam and Eve's children procreated with each other. Which also means that, in theory, every person in the world is related.

2007-06-02 07:39:48
71.   Bumsrap
70 - That explains all the stupidity in this world.
2007-06-02 08:03:42
72.   rockmrete
4th outfielder...
Seems to me that we would have been better off with Bigbie as our 4th outfielder this year, as in that Pierrie/Clark are indistructable and there has been no playing time for any of our AAA outfielders on the big club.

And Nomar should bail out Ned and have a Marlon Anderson type injury.

2007-06-02 08:30:30
73.   Gagne55
65 Wrong. Genesis 4:17 states:

Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch; and he built a city, and named it Enoch after his sone Enoch.

Clearly if Cain "knew his wife" (In Hebrew the word "to know" is a common euphomism for sex) then he must have had a wife to know.

2007-06-02 08:44:03
74.   Andrew Shimmin
73- Not even partial credit? You're a tough grader.
2007-06-02 08:48:26
75.   Jon Weisman
Update to this post above.
2007-06-02 08:55:27
76.   Vishal
i haven't been able to keep up with DT the past several days, so i don't know if anyone posted this already... also, i don't know who or how they got it, but apparently UZR ratings for 2007 so far are available online:

none of the dodgers are particularly impressive, and jeff kent is apparently the worst fielder in baseball.

2007-06-02 08:55:39
77.   Jon Weisman
Historic post at Screen Jam.
2007-06-02 08:56:05
78.   Jon Weisman
76 - Yeah, it was in the game thread comments, but thanks.
2007-06-02 09:02:39
79.   Bumsrap
I like that Abreu is getting experience at the MLB level. He could find himself starting next year at second if the Dodgers were to win the WS and Kent retires as a result. Besides Abrue's speed adds spice to the game where LaRoche's walks were, however important, boring.

If Furcal doesn't spark the game the Dodgers still have Pierre to spark the game. It isn't that both have to have good games at the same time. If Pierre does get traded, Abrue would be good to have in the 2 spot.

2007-06-02 09:04:02
80.   Vishal
[78] you know, i looked up "uzr" on dodger thoughts in the google search box in the sidebar, and nothing recent really came up that i saw (though admittedly i didn't look super carefully). that search function just doesn't seem particularly effective.
2007-06-02 09:08:16
81.   Jon Weisman
Well, that search toolbar doesn't hit all the comments - it's not designed to.
2007-06-02 09:11:18
82.   gpellamjr
79 I find winning to be quite entertaining, and losing is the opposite. La Roche got on base, which is the key to winning. Therefore, I do not think La Roche's walks were boring.

On a purely aesthetic level, I enjoy watching good hitters walk. When I consider that I pride myself on my patience in slow pitch softball, but still go out of the strike zone way too much, I think it is amazing to watch players who can consistently take pitches just outside of the zone.

2007-06-02 09:15:21
83.   D4P
How does the search toolbar decide which comments to "hit" and which not to?
2007-06-02 09:16:04
84.   Andrew Shimmin
Is Abreu that fast? In the minors, he's got 56 SB and 32 CS over four and a third seasons.
2007-06-02 09:19:49
85.   Jon Weisman
I think it only hits the comments that are not hidden.
2007-06-02 09:21:14
86.   D4P
Which means, I guess, that it misses most of the comments. I've wondered about that before.
2007-06-02 09:28:39
87.   Andrew Shimmin
Alan Alda has a beard. He kind of looks like Robert Scheer.

Ooh! Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is going to be on CSPAN2, this afternoon, around 2:10. As is a hero of mine, later in the day, whose name doesn't matter much. It's a banner day for BookTV.

2007-06-02 09:29:13
88.   PlayTwo
I've been enjoying reading this string but my 7-year-old has just tugged on my shirt and asked, "Dad, do you know where your glove is?" What a great way to start a Saturday.
2007-06-02 09:56:11
89.   Suffering Bruin
Newsflash: the dancing at high school proms is a bit more, ah, suggestive than the dancing in my day.

Speaking of not keeping up with DT comments for a few days... I just read that Steve Henson wrote his last article for the LA Times.

This saddens me. It does not surprise me but it saddens me nonetheless. I always thought Steve was a force of good at the LAT when it came to covering the Dodgers.

2007-06-02 10:01:25
90.   Icaros

Were Patrick Swayze and Jennifer Grey there?

2007-06-02 10:10:28
91.   kevinarno
Of some interest from San Diego:

"Infielder Oscar Robles also was optioned to Triple-A, to make room for outfielder Hiram Bocachica, who was immediately pressed into service."

Also, excuse the density, but can someone explain to me how Abreu's BA [.308] is greater than his OBP [.296]. Dropped third strike?

2007-06-02 10:20:37
92.   Andrew Shimmin
91- I had a go at it in 11. Abreu has no walks, but one sac fly.
2007-06-02 10:44:40
93.   kevinarno
92 -- But a sac fly doesn't add to either BA or OBP, nor does it detract from either. It's a nonentity all around.
2007-06-02 10:44:49
94.   bhsportsguy
Old pals, Edwin Jackson faces Odalis Perez in a battle of former Dodgers. Jackson, still looking for his first win of the year while Odalis is 2-5. With the Seo being DFAed and Fossum being moved to the bullpen, the Rays may be next looking at Edwin's spot in the rotation.

They have been patient but even the Rays can't keep putting out a pitcher who has given up 4 or more runs in 6 out of 9 starts though his last start against was very good and it was the first time the Rays won a game he had started this season.

2007-06-02 10:53:56
95.   D4P
A sacfly is included in the denominator of OBP, but not of BA.
2007-06-02 10:55:19
96.   underdog
I still wish we could have seen Abreu (at 2nd) and LaRoche in the lineup together, give Kent a breather for a change. Maybe next time Andy's up. I think some full time action will do him good. And next time you're back up, Andy, bring Matt K back with you, willya?

87 Kareem... sigh, is he willing to play for the Lakers again? We could use a center.

2007-06-02 10:55:24
97.   Andrew Shimmin
93- Sac flys count as plate appearances, but not as at bats. Since the denominator in batting average is at bats, sac flys don't help or hurt. In on base percentage, the denominator is plate appearances, so sac flys count the same as any other sort of out.
2007-06-02 10:57:17
98.   D4P
So, if a hitter has a single and a sac fly in two plate appearances, his BA would be 1.000 while his OBP would be 0.500
2007-06-02 10:58:38
99.   Branch Rickey
Which also means that, in theory, every person in the world is related.

In theory? Really? Not to get into an off limits discussion but no matter your religious beliefs, is there anyway to believe otherwise? To believe otherwise certainly ignores everything science knows and DNA proves.

Go Dodgers

2007-06-02 11:08:12
100.   underdog
We all have the same Grandma Lucy.

Meanwhile, saw this on the Yahoo NBA pre-draft write-up today:
" A source who has spoken with Los Angeles Lakers G.M. Mitch Kupchak and Pacers G.M. Larry Bird says that the conversations about a Jermaine O'Neal-for-Andrew Bynum-and-Lamar Odom trade have accelerated in recent days, undoubtedly a reaction to Kobe Bryant's four-day tirade.

"I wouldn't be surprised if this got done by the draft," the source said."

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-06-02 11:08:53
101.   underdog
Jermaine O'Neal for Bynum, yay. Losing Odom in the deal, boo.
2007-06-02 11:09:59
102.   Joshua Worley
I thought people might be interested in a detailed breakdown of LaRoche's walks that I posted on Dodgerama two days ago:

One objection to LaRoche's walks is that they've all come with him batting eighth in front of the pitcher. But this just isn't true. Here is a breakdown of his 15 walks:

4 --- intentional pass with pitcher up next and first base open
2 --- pitcher up next; first base open
2 --- pitcher up next; first base occupied
5 --- non-pitcher next; first base open
2 --- non-pitcher next; first base occupied

At least 9 of these walks are legit, including the situations when either a man is on first or a non-pitcher is up next. I would argue 10 of them are, since one of the walks with the pitcher coming up and first base open was actually a bases empty walk with one out which set up the sacrifice and then a possible RBI situation.

If we remove the 5 suspect walks, then LaRoche still has 10 walks in 47 plate appearances. That's terrific plate discipline. Why won't the Dodgers play LaRoche more?

2007-06-02 11:13:40
103.   D4P
(Bynum + Odom) > O'Neal
2007-06-02 11:17:51
104.   D4P
The idea of the Lakers trading two good players for one doesn't really make sense to me at this point. It's not as if they're just one player away from being a championship team.
2007-06-02 11:21:49
105.   Icaros
Yeah, I'd rather keep Odom and Bynum and do the Kwame Brown for Marcus Camby deal mentioned in the LAT. I actually can't believe Denver would do this.

2007-06-02 11:30:41
106.   D4P
I'm sure the Nuggets wouldn't trade Camby for Brown straight up. But I'd be more interested in that trade too.
2007-06-02 11:33:58
107.   Icaros

It says LA would also probably throw in a low-salaried player or draft pick.

Fine with me. Camby is a defensive monster, although he is injured a lot.

2007-06-02 11:35:10
108.   the OZ
I'd imagine the Lakers would have to get the Pacers' first-round pick in '07 or '08 in a deal for Odom and Bynum/Brown. It doesn't make much sense otherwise. Jermaine O'Neal is good, but not that good.
2007-06-02 11:42:13
109.   Icaros
The Lakers just need defense. Someone like Camby down low and someone new on the perimeter. They'd be really good.

People forget how nice the offense looked early in the season. Lots of movement and passing. Lots of layups and open jumpers. Kobe was only scoring like 20 a game.

2007-06-02 11:49:44
110.   underdog
106/104 - agree with ya both times.

Bruce Jenkins in today's Chronicle wrote about the Lakers' soap opera and was pretty accurate about it.

"One of those awful Hollywood "B" movies is unfolding for real in the Lakers' camp. The owner (Jerry Buss) gets a little sloppy and finds himself arrested for investigation of DUI. The owner's son (Jim) doesn't know basketball, but thinks he does, and makes too many important decisions. The owner's daughter (Jeannie) rips her brother in public and, undoubtedly, in private with her boyfriend -- coach Phil Jackson. The general manager (Mitch Kupchak) is a likable stooge who hasn't made a smart move in years. The guy they need (Jerry West) is the aging legend playing hard to get. The team can't trade Kobe Bryant because Jack Nicholson wouldn't stand for it. No wonder Bryant is confused, contradicting himself every 15 minutes. There's no way he can leave, yet he can't wait to get out ... Just for exercise, knowing there's no way in hell Bryant will be traded, insiders pegged the Knicks and Bulls among the teams who could actually make a deal. Right. Bryant is so entertaining, most people around L.A. wouldn't trade him for those entire teams ... Meanwhile, if Bryant thinks a Jermaine O'Neal trade will reverse the team's fortunes, he must be kidding. Kevin Garnett, absolutely -- and he's the only one ..."

2007-06-02 11:52:25
111.   thinkblue0
Jermaine O'Neal for Bynum, yay. Losing Odom in the deal, boo.

It is kinda rough considering that they want to ditch Jermaine's salary. I can't see this deal without maybe expanding it (Tinsley?) or at least getting a draft pick or two back.

If we do that deal, the Kwame + change for Camby would be really nice.

PG - Farmar
SG- Bryant
PF- Oneal
C- Camby
SF -?

I don't like giving up Odom....but let's face it, that lineup is a heck of a lot better than the one we had last year.

2007-06-02 11:58:08
112.   Icaros

You don't want Walton at SF?

2007-06-02 12:07:23
113.   kegtron
Jermaine O'neal needs to start whining about wanting a trade out of Indy to lower his price tag. If Iverson can be had for a bag of peanuts then I dont want to give up Bynum + Odom for a decent player who's always hurt.
2007-06-02 12:11:11
114.   Sam DC
I see Jon Quixote is back with his windmills and his OBP.

And the world is better place for it.

2007-06-02 12:11:22
115.   kegtron
Check out this hilarious tantrum by a minor league manager last night.

Fire in the hole!

2007-06-02 13:13:20
116.   Ladderkite
112 - Walton is still a free agent that needs to be resigned. Plus there is the forgotten Chris Mihm coming back from injury. Honestly, we must find a way to dump, Vlad Rad.
2007-06-02 13:22:40
117.   JoeyP
Walton doesnt need to be resigned.
He's poor on defense, and cant create his own shot on offense.

His only good skill is passing, but he still doesnt create many plays for others.
I'd definitely let him go.

Thinkblue00 is right. If Tinsley/O'Neal for Bynum/Odom is the deal--I'd make that in a heartbeat. Then trade Kwame + Draft picks for JR Smith/Camby.

JR Smith has a ton of talent, is young, athletic--but he hates George Karl.


2007-06-02 13:22:40
118.   JoeyP
Walton doesnt need to be resigned.
He's poor on defense, and cant create his own shot on offense.

His only good skill is passing, but he still doesnt create many plays for others.
I'd definitely let him go.

Thinkblue00 is right. If Tinsley/O'Neal for Bynum/Odom is the deal--I'd make that in a heartbeat. Then trade Kwame + Draft picks for JR Smith/Camby.

JR Smith has a ton of talent, is young, athletic--but he hates George Karl.


2007-06-02 13:22:54
119.   Andrew Shimmin
Melky Cabrera is the greatest baseball player of his generation.
2007-06-02 13:39:48
120.   LAT
115. That has to be one of the most ridiculous tantrums of all time. The crawling to the mound and tossing the rosin bag like a grenade was especially mental. If I were the Braves I would have serious reservations about that guys stability. However, Al Green in the background did add a certain comic effect.
2007-06-02 13:45:55
121.   Andrew Shimmin
I was down with it, during the cover the plate in dirt, then draw a novelty sized plate around it bit. Everything after that was too much, and detracted from it.

In other news, Joe Buck thinks Proctor really wasn't throwing at Youkilis. McCarver should ask if he believes in the tooth fairy, too. But he won't. He's got scary-important theories about base clogging to impart.

2007-06-02 13:50:54
122.   still bevens
Lineup from ITD. Hope we can get it done without Russ.

Pierre, CF

Furcal, SS

Nomar, 1B

Kent, 2B

Gonzo, LF

Lieberthal, C

Ethier, RF

Abreu, 3B

Kuo, P

2007-06-02 13:55:31
123.   Clive Clements
Me being selfish: no Russ tonight is good b/c that means I get to see him tomorrow (as long as it doesn't rain). Anybody been to PNC before? It'll be my first time there and in Pittsburgh.
2007-06-02 13:58:58
124.   LAT
Dodger game;
Piston - Cavs game;
Stanly Cup finals.

Great sports day starting about 4:00 pst today. And me, I have to go to dinner and the theater. Ugh.

2007-06-02 14:02:56
125.   Eric Enders
123 I think PNC is the best park in baseball by a pretty wide margin. Pittsburgh is an underrated city too. The best seats to get are the ones in the second deck behind home plate, which give you a good view of the field and a fabulous view of the river and skyline behind it. But really, there are no bad seats. The Andy Warhol Museum is a couple of blocks away from the ballpark in an old warehouse, and is well worth checking out.
2007-06-02 14:07:14
126.   Andrew Shimmin
"It doesn't smell like a long rain delay."

-McCarver. Buck agreed.

2007-06-02 14:18:23
127.   Who Is Karim Garcia

The correct phrasing is, "Melky Cabrera is the greatest player in the history of Western civilization."

2007-06-02 14:19:46
128.   Andrew Shimmin
127- Juan Encarnacion is the greatest player of all time. Melky has the potential to displace him, but he has a lot left to prove.
2007-06-02 14:22:33
129.   Clive Clements
125 Thanks for the tips, Eric. I'll be driving across the state w/o tickets, maybe I'll check out the ticket resale area before going to the ticket booth, but I'll see if I can get seats in that area. I was definitely looking for something behind the plate so that I could get that view.

I didn't know there was an Andy Warhol museum. It sounds interesting, I'll prob check it out on a return trip to Pitt. Pretty much just going in for the game and back home.

2007-06-02 14:26:55
130.   Vaudeville Villain

That deal is terrible, especially if we include Tinsley. His contract is radiactive. If we make that trade we have to get Indiana's Number one pick back as well for it to even be somewhat comprehensible, but that seems unlikely.

Jermaine O'Neal is NOT enough of an improvement over Odom to justify that deal. About the only thing O'Neal does better than Odom is play defense.

I agree that Luke Walton is an unnecessary re-signing, though.

2007-06-02 14:27:35
131.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Does anyone think we can get Parkman from the Indians. I think management has to reduce costs. He can be the power hitter we need. Besides, the women love his shimmy.
2007-06-02 14:45:44
132.   Andrew Shimmin
Juan Pierre's VORP is now zero. It's actually -0.0, which is something. He's the thirty-second VORPiest CF in MLB this year, ahead of twenty-one other unfortunates.
2007-06-02 14:48:32
133.   overkill94
Anybody else see the little thing in Sports Illustrated where Russell Martin says the best nickname he ever got was "Turtle" (from Entourage)? Could it be a name that would stick or are we still trying to figure out a nickname for him?
2007-06-02 14:53:25
134.   underdog
131 Heh. It took me a minute to realize that was a Major League reference. Well, we already have a "Wild Thing" in the minors, in Miller.
2007-06-02 14:55:26
135.   underdog
133 That works though I still like calling him "Herc" (from The Wire).

2007-06-02 14:58:29
136.   underdog
115 My God, that tantrum's over the top. I guess he was trying out for the part of Bobby Cox's successor but even Cox would be embarrassed by that tirade. I love the building a sandcastle or whatever that was atop home plate, though. Wellman isn't well, man.
2007-06-02 15:00:39
137.   Bluebleeder87
i'll more than likely be heading out to Dodger Stadium today for the Chatsworth vs. Cleveland game i read TC & BHSportsguy were also gonna be there hope to see them there, i'll be wearing my blue Dodger Thoughts shirt, o.k. i'm out, hope the Dodgers have a good game today.
2007-06-02 15:15:44
138.   LAT
Schilling gives up 3 run jack to Posada. Yanks lead 4-3
2007-06-02 15:21:46
139.   LAT
Roger Clemens was scratched from Monday's start against the Chicago White Sox because of a fatigued right groin.

What the hell is a fatigued groin anyway.

(As a self proscribed Yankee/Clemens hater I am pleased to bring you this Griddle worthy information in Bob's absence)

2007-06-02 15:26:02
140.   underdog
As per Tony Jackson:
(an answer to 40)
"Jason Schmidt threw a 58-pitch bullpen session today with Grady, Honeycutt, Warthen and Stan Conte all watching. After that, the decision was immediately made to activate him time for Tuesday night's game in San Diego, which is the next time Hendrickson was scheduled to start. So Hendrickson goes to the pen, and the Dodgers, beginning tonight, will have EXACTLY the same starting rotation that I and a handful of others thought they would open the season with at the start of spring training. Not sure who will go down, but it'll have to be a pitcher because they are already carrying 12. My best guess is Eric Hull, who was only called up as an emergency anyway"
2007-06-02 15:28:15
141.   LAT
At least Hull is getting a lot of frequent flier miles.
2007-06-02 15:29:01
142.   underdog
He may at least get a major league debut in before he goes, very possibly tonight (even if Kuo pitches fairly well).
2007-06-02 15:30:33
143.   LAT
Musina gives up back to back to Lowell and Veriteck to tie the game.
2007-06-02 15:34:28
144.   underdog
Yep. The Yankees bullpen, operating by Proctor... continues to struggle. A certain Brett Tomko would look good there by comparison. Ahem {cough}
2007-06-02 15:35:25
145.   underdog
Oh wait, you're right, that was Moose wasn't it? I thought Proctor had come in earlier. Well, can't blame him then. Still...
2007-06-02 15:58:22
146.   Andrew Shimmin
Do you think Okajima's necklace is made of candy?
2007-06-02 15:58:58
147.   Jon Weisman
Rushed new post up top. I'll try to edit it on the fly.
2007-06-02 17:05:39
148.   fordprefect
OK, trying to make the game on 6/16 vs. [Hell's] Angels. Seeing as it's a 3 1/2 hr drive for us, we're resigned to staying somewhere (no, not your couch, but thanks for offering) in the downtown area maybe (?) and possibly using public transport to & from the game. So far, I can't find direct public transport to DS but I've only just started looking.
[long breath]
anyone care to comment on downtown accomodations for 3 and public transport chances?

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