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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Count Pitchula
2007-06-05 18:05
by Jon Weisman

Interesting discussion of pitch counts as they relate to young Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum by Tom Verducci at today.

Lincecum had thrown 100 pitches through six innings against the Mets before the Giants tied the game at 3 in the top of the seventh. Lincecum had just pitched virtually the entire sixth inning out of the stretch, allowing one run. The conservative move was to lift the rookie. Bochy, however, never considered it.

"No," (Giants manager Bruce) Bochy said. "He can throw 150 pitches easy with the arm he has. And tomorrow he'll pick up a ball and the first ball he throws he'll just air it out. You know how many pitches he threw in the bullpen warming up tonight? Fifteen pitches is all he threw. And he had an extra day or two [of rest] coming in. So, no, there's no concern …

Lincecum has thrown no less than 96 pitches in all six starts. He is on track to throw 211 innings this season (including his minor league appearances), a harrowing jump from the 157 he threw last season in the minors and at the University of Washington.

Lincecum is also on track to exceed 110 pitches nine times this season. Is that radical for a young pitcher? It depends on your frame of reference. I checked the workloads of four similarly smallish righthanded pitchers -- Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, Tim Hudson and Roy Oswalt -- at similar points early in their careers. I also threw in last season's numbers for Verlander, a tall but thin righthander. I compared them to the projected totals this year for Lincecum, with particular interest in how many times they were allowed to throw 110 pitches or more in a game. What the numbers showed is exactly what you might expect: Lincecum is on track to break the trend of declining pitch counts for young pitchers. ...

The numbers for Maddux show how much the game has changed. His manager, Don Zimmer, let him throw 143 pitches in his first start of the year in 1988, while Maddux was still 21 years old. Maddux exceeded 130 pitches six times that year, including a May 17 game in which Zimmer let him throw 167 pitches against the Cardinals. Maddux pitched 10 2/3 innings, with Zimmer not pulling him until he allowed five consecutive hits with two outs in the 11th. A manager would be fired on the spot today for pushing a young pitcher like that. Maddux turned out OK, though.

Lincecum hasn't been running pitch counts nearly that high, but in today's game he makes for an interesting case study. The 110-pitch games don't seem outrageous to me. But as durable as his arm might seem, I believe the Giants are asking for trouble if they allow him to throw more than 200 pro innings this year. They should manage his innings in the second half by skipping his start occasionally or sending him to the bullpen for periods. But hey, who really knows for sure? All we really know is that we will be watching, and counting, every pitch.

One thing you notice at this time of year is college pitchers throwing tons of pitches. Tim Murphy of UCLA, for example, threw 140 pitches on Sunday. College pitchers don't usually pitch every fifth day, but still it's good to monitor these things.

* * *

Tonight's game:


Retro Gameday

Comments (351)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-06-05 18:22:58
1.   bigcpa
NPUT yay!
2007-06-05 18:25:41
2.   bhsportsguy
I was at the game on Sunday and I was counting pitches, he had two big innings, the first where he gave up 3 runs on 30 pitchers and the 3rd where he gave up 1 run on 23 pitches.

After that (he had 61 pitches at that point), he went on to only throw 44 pitches in 4 innings of work to take him to 105 after 7. And he was pitching really well. I thought after the Dirtbags had 2 on and the tying run at the plate, they would take out Murphy but all he did was blow two hitters away on strikeouts.

In the 9th he gave up a long flyball triple (Blair Field in 410, I think, to dead center with a 10 foot wall, with two down but then he got the last out on a grounder to third.

I do think that Tampa Bay is very happy that Vandy is done so Price has finished this season. But I don't think the once a week starts bother me as much as what happens when they get to the College World Series and guys start pitching more innings and on short rest.

2007-06-05 18:28:35
3.   Michael D
People will stop lamenting that we should have taken Lincecum over Kershaw after his arm explodes. Nice to see the Giants helping out with that though.
2007-06-05 18:30:23
4.   Xeifrank
DodgerSims gives the Dodgers a pre-game win probability of 46.50% against the Padres tonight. Let's hope it's wrong! Go Dodgers!
vr, Xei
2007-06-05 18:32:25
5.   Curtis Lowe
How many years before we see Kershaw Vs. Linecum?
2007-06-05 18:40:15
6.   Sam DC
If I wasn't pounding away on my blakcberry, I'd wax rhapsodic about Dad's views of racehorse conditioning and his distrust of "furlong count" trainers who rejected the simple and obvious point that exercising and pushing a body makes it stronger.

He believed the same re pitchers, though he didn't care about them as much as he did horses.

2007-06-05 18:40:17
7.   Bob Timmermann
Hiram's batting!
Hiram's batting!
Hiram's batting!
He's batting 8th, yes, he's batting 8th!
2007-06-05 18:41:22
8.   Bob Timmermann
So it's just a matter of time before Lincecum breaks down and they have to shoot him?

Or will he get the Barbaro treatment?

2007-06-05 18:46:56
9.   Sam DC
A correction in today's Wash Post: "A list of spelling-bee words for the June 3 Style Invitational mis-spelled the words 'paromonasia' and 'polyphyodont.'"

Bonus correction, complete the following (which is the next correction in the paper): "A May 25 Style review of 'Once' incorrectly marked actor Glen Hansard's feature debut. He made his debut in 1991's ____ ."

2007-06-05 19:03:52
10.   the OZ
Bob -

My brother is going to Japan this summer and would like to see a baseball game while he's there. Do you have any insight or recommendations that I could pass along to him? He's talked about seeing the Tigers, Dragons, All-Stars, or Giants but isn't a huge sports fan and doesn't know much about the league over there.

Any comment you have would be much appreciated!

2007-06-05 19:06:32
11.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Man, I'm hyped for this series....
2007-06-05 19:07:11
12.   Bob Timmermann
The Hanshin Tigers are the most fun team to see, but it can be hard to get tickets for them as they are popular. A midweek game that doesn't involve the Giants would work.

The Yokohama BayStars (I think that's who you mean) are always easy to get tickets for. Watch out for rainouts with both Hanshin and Yokohama.

What part of Japan is going to?

2007-06-05 19:08:57
13.   Bob Timmermann
Hint: Glen Hansard is Irish.
2007-06-05 19:09:48
14.   Hallux Valgus
9- an excellent movie and a better book.

...and Juan with about the least exciting start possible.

2007-06-05 19:09:51
15.   overkill94
Run, Raffy, run!
2007-06-05 19:10:45
16.   overkill94
Cross-up on a pitchout?
2007-06-05 19:10:59
17.   Hallux Valgus
ha! Young can't even get a runner on a pitch out.
2007-06-05 19:13:46
18.   capdodger
Kent can't believe he missed the 2-0 pitch.
2007-06-05 19:14:29
19.   Bluebleeder87
I can't believe Kent missed the juicy fastball at 84mph right down the middle.
2007-06-05 19:14:37
20.   kevinarno
"Jury box in right field"

Vin. Don't ever leave.

2007-06-05 19:14:40
21.   Sam in SC
extra innings has just joined the game.
2007-06-05 19:15:11
22.   Sam in SC
(just in time for Kent's K)
2007-06-05 19:15:57
23.   capdodger
Oh boy. It's "pong" for those of us on MLB.TV.
2007-06-05 19:16:23
24.   Bluebleeder87
Kent's head on that curve looked horrible, it's like he wasn't even looking at the pitch.
2007-06-05 19:16:45
25.   Who Is Karim Garcia
anyone know hard Schmidt was clocked in his rehab start?
2007-06-05 19:18:04
26.   Bob Timmermann
The original Jury Box was at Braves Field in Boston and it was a section that jutted out in right field. The story is that at one game a writer counted just 12 fans there.
2007-06-05 19:18:07
27.   Who Is Karim Garcia
ugh still 88....
2007-06-05 19:18:12
28.   regfairfield
2588-91 supposedly.
2007-06-05 19:18:18
29.   overkill94
I'll take 88 MPH out of Schmidt, sure as heck beats 83
2007-06-05 19:18:28
30.   Sam in SC
25 - I read that he topped out at 91 or 92, and only did that a couple of times.
2007-06-05 19:18:49
31.   regfairfield
27 That's actually an improvement, in his healthy starts this season he was throwing 82 in the first 10 pitches.
2007-06-05 19:19:46
32.   Sam in SC
the velocity looks better, but not a lot better.
2007-06-05 19:20:15
33.   trainwreck
The Padres lineup is absolutely terrible.
2007-06-05 19:20:39
34.   Bluebleeder87
if he throws 88-92 all year long i'll be very happy.
2007-06-05 19:20:44
35.   overkill94
Schmidt was working in the 88-92 range for the Giants last year and did just fine
2007-06-05 19:20:48
36.   the OZ
12 He's mostly going to be in Tokyo and Kyoto, with his schedule not working out well because some local teams will be on the road when he's in town from what I understand.

I've passed along your comments to him. Thanks!

2007-06-05 19:21:42
37.   Who Is Karim Garcia
i want 98.
2007-06-05 19:22:04
38.   Bob Timmermann
The original "Jury Box"
2007-06-05 19:23:09
39.   capdodger
37 Broxton will pitch in the 9th.
2007-06-05 19:24:22
40.   Sam in SC
39 - I hope his services aren't needed tonight. he was exciting enough last night.
2007-06-05 19:27:08
41.   Vishal
Lincecum has thrown no less than 96 pitches in all six starts.

the word "less" seems to be waging war on "fewer". i feel like nobody uses them correctly anymore, and all i ever hear is "less this" and "less that". tsk, tsk.

2007-06-05 19:29:20
42.   Bluebleeder87
Russell Martin is a 5 tool catcher
2007-06-05 19:29:24
43.   Sam in SC
41 - If you can't count it, use less. If you can count it, use fewer.
2007-06-05 19:30:34
44.   Bob Timmermann
Tastes great!
Less filling!
Fewer calories!
2007-06-05 19:32:14
45.   Sam in SC
44 - that example may not be the best one imaginable. after enough great taste, you can't count fewer than two of anything.
2007-06-05 19:32:53
46.   overkill94
I have an obscene amount of Dodgers on my NL-only fantasy team now:


2007-06-05 19:33:12
47.   MMSMikey
the dodgers are having good patient at bats tonight (except for pierre) maybe thats a good sign for tonight.
2007-06-05 19:33:19
48.   Curtis Lowe
Offense seems a little over aggresive on the extremely HIGH fastball.
2007-06-05 19:35:04
49.   still bevens
And were swinging and missing at the juicy ones inside.
2007-06-05 19:35:08
50.   Bluebleeder87

Etanislao is swinging at anything with in radar distance.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-06-05 19:37:35
51.   JoeyP
To those that have had MLB tv 400k, and have upgraded to 700k--is the difference that much better?
2007-06-05 19:38:49
52.   Sam in SC
51 - I have used it once or twice. it is noticeably better, but it's still not a 42" television screen.
2007-06-05 19:39:15
53.   Curtis Lowe
91 on 4 straight pitches it took 4 for him to hit the zone but still a strong set for Schmidt.
2007-06-05 19:41:31
54.   Doctor
Ive seen a ton of Schmidt in the last 5 years and am pretty happy with this so far. 91, 92 on the fastball can work for him. He looks good so far IMO. One really nasty change (his best pitch).
2007-06-05 19:41:45
55.   Vishal
the padres sure are working the count...
2007-06-05 19:42:33
56.   Vishal
[43] i know that, it's just that nobody else seems to. and it's bugging me :P
2007-06-05 19:43:08
57.   Sam in SC
55 - always a smart move, but especially against a pitcher just coming off the DL.
2007-06-05 19:43:33
58.   JoeyP
Thats not the beginning of a beard on Kent is it?
2007-06-05 19:44:19
59.   Vishal
[57] i wish our team did that.
2007-06-05 19:44:27
60.   Sam in SC
54 - he looks like he may be overthrowing it to me, but I haven't seen much jason schmidt over the years.
2007-06-05 19:45:22
61.   Curtis Lowe
That last pitch looked a strike to my eyes what say gameday?
2007-06-05 19:45:43
62.   Vishal
that was totally a strike on girlmouth.
2007-06-05 19:45:59
63.   JoeyP
The Ball 4 to Bocachica was closer to a strike than the strike 3 on Cameron.
2007-06-05 19:46:06
64.   Sam in SC
I realize that is the pitcher, but he still looks pretty imposing.
2007-06-05 19:46:32
65.   Bluebleeder87
Wow, just wow!
2007-06-05 19:46:34
66.   Sam in SC
what a MARVELOUS play by furcal.
2007-06-05 19:46:41
67.   overkill94
Wow, another amazing play from Furky!
2007-06-05 19:46:59
68.   Bluebleeder87
that's ESPN top 10 worthy no guys?
2007-06-05 19:47:12
69.   Bob Timmermann
I believe that in this case "Bocachica" translates to "small mouth."

"Chica" is often used to refer to size in Spanish.

2007-06-05 19:47:16
70.   JoeyP
Furcal just saved 2 runs,
2007-06-05 19:47:25
71.   Sam in SC
63. that pitch call got a "wow" out of schmidt as he turned around and went back to the mound.
2007-06-05 19:47:59
72.   Bluebleeder87
That was a true dive & catch by the way.
2007-06-05 19:48:57
73.   Sam in SC
what a travesty it would have been to allow the pitcher 2 rbis.
2007-06-05 19:49:32
74.   Vishal
[69] sure, but i prefer thinking of him as "girlmouth" :)
2007-06-05 19:50:28
75.   MMSMikey
nice at bat there juan, 2 for 2
2007-06-05 19:51:02
76.   Sam in SC
75 - and quickly, too.
2007-06-05 19:51:35
77.   JoeyP
Quite a few empty seats in San Diego.
2007-06-05 19:51:47
78.   k0b3
75- at least he's a gamer
2007-06-05 19:52:21
79.   Who Is Karim Garcia
I'm listen on my cell phone and had to sign in just to tell you guys i bet that Furcal play was awesome!
2007-06-05 19:55:38
80.   Bluebleeder87

are you typing & driving?

2007-06-05 19:58:45
81.   old dodger fan
Nice inning for Schmidt.

Too bad we can't swap Gonzo's with them. I'd toss in a Nomar to boot.

2007-06-05 19:59:20
82.   Sam in SC
nice pitch ;)
2007-06-05 20:01:01
83.   old dodger fan
4 pitches = 2 outs
2007-06-05 20:01:36
84.   Bluebleeder87
the Padres pitcher is bottom heavy
2007-06-05 20:01:48
85.   dzzrtRatt
81 Knocking Luis Gonzalez is so March.
2007-06-05 20:02:49
86.   Sam in SC
84 - Height: 6-10
Weight: 260 lbs.
2007-06-05 20:03:26
87.   overkill94
There goes Young's interesting game
2007-06-05 20:05:20
88.   old dodger fan
85 I'm not knocking Luis. I am admiring a first baseman with 12 HRs.
2007-06-05 20:06:39
89.   Sam in SC
it seems to be a theme tonight; dodger hitters are swinging at some fairly high fastballs.
2007-06-05 20:09:00
90.   overkill94
I love that "Sopranos on A&E" commercial, especially the farmer getting blown up when he starts his tractor
2007-06-05 20:09:10
91.   Doug N
51 i have the mlb tv premium subscription. i watch it on a plain old tv...i put a video card w/ tv out and ran 75' of cable through the house. the 700k is noticeably better, but sometimes, especially if i've got some hefty downloads or uploads going on, i use the 400k. it's not earth shattering, but i paid extra to get access to the condensed games and the radio feed too.
2007-06-05 20:13:01
92.   old dodger fan
According to Gameday Schmidt has two 94 mph fastballs this inning.
2007-06-05 20:13:25
93.   dzzrtRatt
In response to Jon's original post: Did anyone see the NY Times Sunday sports magazine, "Play?" In a long story on the struggles of Kerry Wood there are a couple of interesting snippets about pitching and the development of pitchers. This was interesting:

Although the act of pitching a baseball repeatedly is exceedingly stressful, doctors now generally accept that it is not the act itself that causes injury nearly so much as pitching while fatigued. A study by the American Sports Medicine Institute shows that pitchers between the ages of 16 and 20 who often throw with arm fatigue are 36 times more likely to be seriously injured than those who do not. In 20 years of research for the institute, Fleisig calls the fatigue factor "the single strongest statistical finding" he has ever encountered. Fatigue can cause a pitcher to overthrow and to alter his mechanics to compensate for the loss in power. This is why recovering from injuries is so precarious, because a pitcher often tries to find an arm slot in his delivery that doesn't hurt, which in turn leads to using joints and muscles in new and unfamiliar ways. And it's why pitching while hurt, which Wood has been doing throughout his career, may be the most devastating thing you can do.

The tried-and-true method of preventing young pitchers from throwing when they are fatigued has been to keep them on strict pitch counts in the minor leagues — 100 pitches per game has become something of an industry standard. But there is an intriguing school of thought emerging that holds that one of the problems with today's young pitchers is that they do not throw enough in the minors before getting called up. As the thinking goes, pitch counts prevent young pitchers from learning to pitch while tired, to pace themselves during a game, to get out of jams without simply handing the ball to the bullpen. "We condition [young pitchers] to develop pitches," says Nolan Ryan, a Hall of Famer who owns two of the Houston Astros' minor-league clubs. "We condition them to pitch a certain number of innings. I don't know if we do a real good job of conditioning them to compete. Let them have a long inning and get out of it." Ryan says that when he pitched, he never wanted to put the game in anyone else's hands. "When you talk about that, they look at you like you're from another planet."

Ferguson Jenkins, a Cubs Hall of Fame pitcher who spent only one month on the disabled list in his 19-year career, adds that young pitchers are too coddled. "They don't let them pitch enough in the minors [so that] they know how to counteract all the different pressures they have in the major leagues."

Ryan and Jenkins's theory is supported by the experiences of still-active pitchers who started professionally in their late teens. The San Diego Padres' Greg Maddux threw for 491 1/3 innings before his first full season in the majors at 21. He has thrown for 200 innings or more in 18 seasons and possesses perhaps the single most impressive statistic in baseball history: he has been on the disabled list only once in his 22-year career. The New York Mets' Tom Glavine, also drafted out of high school, threw for 536 2 / 3 innings before his first full big-league season at 22, and is now in his 21st season. He has thrown 200 innings or more in 13 of them.

Maddux and Glavine are command-and-location pitchers, but such heralded fireballers as Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling also spent appreciable time in the minors learning their craft. Johnson pitched 418 1/3 innings before his first lengthy season in the majors when he was 25. Schilling pitched 701 2 / 3 innings before his first sustained call-up at 23. Together they have lasted 38 seasons. Daisuke Matsuzaka, the Boston Red Sox import from Japan, threw 588 innings before he was 21, following the Japanese custom of pitching lots of early-career innings.

These apprenticeships reinforced a crucial aspect of a pitcher's mechanics, which is delivering the ball the same way every time. Significant minor-league experience also teaches young pitchers that what they are trying to perfect is a complex tango of command and location and changing speeds, not some personal duel with the radar gun.

The article is by Buzz Bissinger, who wrote "Friday Night Lights."

Find it here:

2007-06-05 20:13:31
94.   Bluebleeder87
Here's an update on Saito.
2007-06-05 20:17:43
95.   StolenMonkey86
Maddux exceeded 130 pitches six times that year, including a May 17 game in which Zimmer let him throw 167 pitches against the Cardinals.

Wow. Isn't 167 like a 16 inning game for Maddux?

2007-06-05 20:17:47
96.   Sam in SC
94 - all sorts of good stuff in that article. good news about brozoban, and the flight from pittburgh apparently almost crashed.
2007-06-05 20:20:45
97.   Sam in SC
give him a hit on that one!
2007-06-05 20:22:44
98.   MMSMikey
absolutely terrible.
2007-06-05 20:23:00
99.   MMSMikey
go away juan
2007-06-05 20:23:07
100.   neuroboy002
....And it falls into the hands of Pierre (?)
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-06-05 20:23:24
101.   k0b3
2007-06-05 20:23:49
102.   Lexinthedena
Abreu has Gwynn-like plate coverage....
2007-06-05 20:24:46
103.   old dodger fan
This is a pitcher Pierre could do some damage to if he could get on base but he has had 3 pretty poor AB's tonight.
2007-06-05 20:26:05
104.   k0b3
102 - too bad he doesn't have Gywnn like plate discipline

the dodgers tonight have WASTED three at bats with RISP...that does not bode well for a win

2007-06-05 20:26:17
105.   Sam in SC
103 - I believe he has three two-pitch ABs tonight.

so, yeah, pretty awful.

2007-06-05 20:26:19
106.   underdog
The Padres telecast chose the moment when Pierre was up to show the stat that the Dodgers are third in the NL in batting avg. with runners in scoring position. Pierre is not a part of that statistic apparently.

Another interesting note in that notes column:
"The next time the need arises for another bullpen arm, it might be Double-A right-hander John Meloan. He impressed Little during Spring Training and has done nothing at Jacksonville to diminish his potential. He's 5-2 with a 2.57 ERA, 38 strikeouts and 11 walks in 28 innings, and opponents are batting .158 against him."

2007-06-05 20:28:32
107.   Jon Weisman
93 - I'm intrigued, but a little confused on what the article is suggesting. Is it basically saying, never call up a young pitcher?
2007-06-05 20:28:50
108.   StolenMonkey86
105 - yeah, and they've all been infield popups

but there is good news . . .

2007-06-05 20:28:56
109.   Bluebleeder87
Schmidt has a great change with sick movement on it.
2007-06-05 20:29:37
110.   Sam in SC
First Inning:
Juan Pierre Ball, Strike 0 (bunted foul), J Pierre bunt popped out foul to third

Third Inning:
Juan Pierre Strike (looking), J Pierre fouled out to third

Fifth Inning:
Juan Pierre Ball, J Pierre popped out to second

2007-06-05 20:29:47
111.   Lexinthedena
Its hard for me to understand why Pierre who everyone claims has such a work ethic doesn't work on being more patient at the plate...
2007-06-05 20:31:43
112.   bhsportsguy
109 He has looked good so far this evening.

I posted a question to Tony Jackson on his blog about Elbert's condition, he says he's going to call DeJon Watson tomorrow to get an update.

2007-06-05 20:31:52
113.   trainwreck
That is what I was wondering. So do not let them throw much in high school, wait till they are in the minors?
2007-06-05 20:32:39
114.   Bluebleeder87
103 - I believe he has three two-pitch ABs tonight.

so, yeah, pretty awful.

that's what really kills me about him, but like he said that's his game & he ain't gonna change it. 4 more years of that. i'm kind of depressed after typing that.

2007-06-05 20:33:01
115.   underdog
Not to defend Pierre, who's had some poor at bats tonight, but Chris Young is one of the finer pitchers in the NL. Both pitchers are schooling hitters tonight, so I feel like not being too hard on the offense for not doing much. Though I'm sure fans of both teams are used to seeing low output.
2007-06-05 20:33:09
116.   old dodger fan
The Padres 5 thru 8 hitters are batting:
.074 (Thats unbelievable-is it right?)

Ours are batting:

2007-06-05 20:34:24
117.   k0b3
dodgers HAVE to win tonight....if not they will probably be swept
2007-06-05 20:35:54
118.   underdog
115 The above was written by one of my personalities. The other one says: "For Godssakes do something!!"
2007-06-05 20:36:40
119.   old dodger fan
I hope this guy is on a pitch count.
2007-06-05 20:37:44
120.   k0b3
on an ESPN article :
"ut the heir apparent in center, 22-year-old Matt Kemp, is hitting a robust .317/.371/.522 in Triple-A (albeit in the hitter's haven of Las Vegas). He's an obvious candidate for a promotion, while Billingsley deserves a shot at the starting rotation. There's also enough talent elsewhere in the system to trade for an upgrade at first base or in a corner outfield spot. Led by Brad Penny (more on him later), the Dodgers are among the league's elite on the mound. A few well-crafted moves could provide a big lift to the offense -- and give the Dodgers the upper hand in the NL West race."

I wish Kemp was the heir apparent in center...too bad he has to wait 5 more years :(

2007-06-05 20:37:57
121.   Lexinthedena
116 PETCO must destroy the psyche of hitters the way Coors did pitchers....
2007-06-05 20:39:05
122.   underdog
Wait, how is Young at 90+ pitches already, with only one hit and the walks? Dodgers working the count better than I thought?
2007-06-05 20:39:07
123.   overkill94
That pitch was not a strike in the 1st inning
2007-06-05 20:39:07
124.   MMSMikey
ooo, dont know about that strike call
2007-06-05 20:39:28
125.   MMSMikey
90 mph fastball right down the middle
2007-06-05 20:40:05
126.   underdog
2007-06-05 20:40:44
127.   bhsportsguy
Not that San Diego's bullpen is an easy walk in the park but the fact that Young was so good and they worked him for 100 pitches in 6 innings was about the only good thing you can say about the offense so far.
2007-06-05 20:40:52
128.   StolenMonkey86
1" break on strike three

But it had a 16" pFX.

2007-06-05 20:41:02
129.   Bluebleeder87
it looks more & more like this is gonna be a 1 run game.
2007-06-05 20:41:18
130.   Sam in SC
122 - I was wondering how his pitch count got that high, too. extra innings joined the game late, so I just assume he had a difficult first or second inning.
2007-06-05 20:42:57
131.   old dodger fan
Gonzo has seen 14 pitches in his last 2 AB's
2007-06-05 20:43:44
132.   underdog
Well at least Pierre's playing a decent CF tonight, not that he's made any amazing catches, but he's judging fly balls well, running 'em down and... OH who am I kidding!? These silver linings are sad, sad, sad.
2007-06-05 20:44:36
133.   bhsportsguy
129 Well they are used to that, San Diego, despite the sparkling ERA at home is only a 1/2 game better than the Dodgers at home, reason being, they have a hard time scoring at Petco too.
2007-06-05 20:44:45
134.   old dodger fan
Win or lose tonight it is sure good to see Schmidt pitch well.
2007-06-05 20:45:23
135.   StolenMonkey86
129 - yay, we're good at those!
2007-06-05 20:45:29
136.   bhsportsguy
131 He also went to 3-2 on his first at-bat tonight.
2007-06-05 20:45:47
137.   Sam in SC
and the crowd sits back down.
2007-06-05 20:47:05
138.   bhsportsguy
134 Yeah, I didn't want to bring up Tomko or Hendrickson but this is great to see, though San Diego's lineup isn't like facing the Red Sox.
2007-06-05 20:47:36
139.   Lexinthedena
At least uhhh....Pierre wears his stirrups in a cool way...
2007-06-05 20:47:47
140.   bhsportsguy
So is Schmidt done for tonight?
2007-06-05 20:48:07
141.   neuroboy002
This is an awesome come-back start by Schmidt.. even if I can only watch it on gameday due to my state of penury.

Can I borrow some money Carl Pavano?
(Oh come on, it's not like he earned it.)

2007-06-05 20:49:40
142.   old dodger fan
Chris Young's 100th pitch, he said hopefully.
2007-06-05 20:51:01
143.   StolenMonkey86
Can I borrow some money Carl Pavano?

You don't need to go to Pavano; stick with the Dodgers. You can ask Dreifort.

2007-06-05 20:51:08
144.   bhsportsguy
That's funny, pitching out with a catcher on base.
2007-06-05 20:51:29
145.   dzzrtRatt
93 - I'm intrigued, but a little confused on what the article is suggesting. Is it basically saying, never call up a young pitcher?

To some degree, but the stronger message is "don't baby young pitchers." It seems to be arguing for a minor league career designed for pitchers to build up stamina and rote muscle memory.

Maybe it comes down to when you want your pitchers to break down. It would seem like if you made pitchers throw 140 pitches per start in the minors, some will break down and that will be that. The way things are done now, a certain percentage of young pitchers come up at a young age, pitch impressively and then break down.

So it depends on relative risk vs. reward. Another major point of the article is the violence pitching does to a pitcher's shoulder and elbow. The force pulling the shoulder on each pitch is equal to the pitcher's weight. It's as if somebody of equal strength and weight was yanking your arm 100+ times per start.

2007-06-05 20:51:37
146.   bhsportsguy
2007-06-05 20:51:42
147.   StolenMonkey86
2007-06-05 20:51:58
148.   MMSMikey
2007-06-05 20:53:07
149.   JoeyP
That must be a demoralizing feeling to have a base stolen, only for the batter to swing and pop up the pitch.

Take a pitch Ethier.

2007-06-05 20:53:31
150.   neuroboy002
Abreu, This is your hero's moment. This is what you've been waiting for. Give us hope for the future.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-06-05 20:53:58
151.   Eric Stephen
Two great Martin jumps to 2nd negated with swings by Ethier and Abreu, respectively.
2007-06-05 20:54:02
152.   Bluebleeder87
man, Russell Martin must be exhausted over at first base.
2007-06-05 20:54:47
153.   Jon Weisman
145 - Yeah, I think it would be a mistake to go too far in Buzz's direction. You can't say the examples of Maddux on one end and Mark Prior on the other prove anything, but I think certainly that instead of just letting pitchers pitch to their hearts' content, they do need to be gradually strengthened.
2007-06-05 20:54:54
154.   overkill94
Russ is getting plenty of wind sprints in this inning
2007-06-05 20:54:57
155.   StolenMonkey86
7 pickoff attempts now on Martin
2007-06-05 20:55:07
156.   Icaros
Has Abreu even taken one pitch since his callup?
2007-06-05 20:55:10
157.   bhsportsguy
149 It could have been a hit and run with 2-1 count and no out.
2007-06-05 20:55:17
158.   Jon Weisman
Martin is playing with a big rip in his pants leg right now.
2007-06-05 20:55:22
159.   underdog
Russell tore his pants. His mom is gonna be soooo mad.
2007-06-05 20:55:36
160.   Icaros
I guess he does if it's a pitchout.
2007-06-05 20:55:45
161.   StolenMonkey86
156 - if it's a pitchout, yep
2007-06-05 20:55:55
162.   JoeyP
Bud Black is a bad guesser.
2007-06-05 20:56:13
163.   Jon Weisman
Sigh, Martin fall down.
2007-06-05 20:56:20
164.   Sam in SC
wow. did martin fall?
2007-06-05 20:56:40
165.   overkill94
Poor Russ, at least he can finally sit down for a minute
2007-06-05 20:56:53
166.   Bluebleeder87
There is no way i'm gonna be upset at Russell for that.
2007-06-05 20:56:53
167.   Sam in SC
2007-06-05 20:57:00
168.   StolenMonkey86
wardrobe malfunction?
2007-06-05 20:57:03
169.   MMSMikey
this is easy, walk betemit.
2007-06-05 20:57:16
170.   JoeyP
That slip might be the only bad thing Martin's done all year.
2007-06-05 20:57:16
171.   underdog
Well, that wasn't russell's finest hour on the basepaths either, but good job by Abreu to alertly make second.
2007-06-05 20:57:22
172.   Eric Stephen
Need to use extra Tide for Martin's pants tonight.
2007-06-05 20:58:06
173.   bhsportsguy
Black is rolling the dice. We'll see how it turns out soon.
2007-06-05 20:58:15
174.   StolenMonkey86
at 112 Pitches, Young stays in
2007-06-05 20:58:35
175.   underdog
He looked sorta bemused and embarrassed in the dugout, talking to Kent.
2007-06-05 20:58:41
176.   bhsportsguy
Could they be pitching around Wilson?
2007-06-05 20:58:42
177.   neuroboy002
Nothing big needed.... a single will be just fine. And don't forget, Pierre is protecting you.
2007-06-05 20:58:50
178.   Bluebleeder87
Grady Little seemed a bit annoyed at Russell on the play.
2007-06-05 20:59:42
179.   Jon Weisman
Alyssa went to town in her latest post.
2007-06-05 20:59:43
180.   bhsportsguy
I'm just saying....wouldn't you?
2007-06-05 20:59:46
181.   neuroboy002
Oh damn. Pierre is protecting you.
2007-06-05 20:59:55
182.   Icaros

Wouldn't you?

2007-06-05 21:00:14
183.   MMSMikey
all year long they looked to him to light the fire, and all yeah long he answered the demand.
2007-06-05 21:00:34
184.   underdog
Mr. Slappy McClutch strikes again.


2007-06-05 21:00:45
185.   Uncle Miltie
Juan Pierre may be the most intelligent hitter on the Dodgers
2007-06-05 21:00:50
186.   Icaros
I just hate him. I'm sorry.
2007-06-05 21:00:57
187.   neuroboy002
ONE PITCH!!!! YOU"VE got to be kidding!!!! Make him work!
2007-06-05 21:01:01
188.   capdodger
Way to go Juan-for-five.
Way. To. Go.
2007-06-05 21:01:24
189.   old dodger fan
The Legend Continues
2007-06-05 21:01:24
190.   Bluebleeder87

& all year long he was the rally killer.

2007-06-05 21:01:25
191.   k0b3
we need to move pierre to the 9th slot...just tell him we need a "second leadoff hitter" just like the AL he is beyond terrible
2007-06-05 21:01:29
192.   JoeyP
Pierre is having a horrible game.
The guy is at 116 pitches, and he swings at the 1st pitch.

If I'm Little, I immediately take him out of the game. Of course, that should have happened in April.

2007-06-05 21:01:40
193.   MMSMikey
tomorrow would be a great day to put his worthless butt on the bench
2007-06-05 21:01:43
194.   StolenMonkey86
good news - Pierre got the ball on the ground

bad news - [rule 8]

2007-06-05 21:02:27
195.   StolenMonkey86
188 - So he'll get a hit later on? You've called it now.
2007-06-05 21:02:34
196.   Sam in SC
188 - on 7 pitches.
2007-06-05 21:03:47
197.   Icaros
Well, the bullpen looks considerably less deep now w/o Saito and Tsao.

Seanez in a scoreless tie?

2007-06-05 21:04:03
198.   PDH5204
Okay, I'm convinced, he's worthless and ought to be out there somewhere waxing cars instead of earning 40+ million UDS for 5 years [maybe the wax, wax off, might make him a better hitter, or at least he might learn to have some patience with a pitcher who is high on the pitch count and thus vulnerable to heaving a fat one over the middle].
2007-06-05 21:04:08
199.   neuroboy002
191 "Tell him we need a 2nd lead off hitter"

That's the "it's not you, it's me" speech. Except we should just tell him "No, it's definitely you."

2007-06-05 21:04:46
200.   Bluebleeder87
i think Branch Rickey said he changed the channel every time Pierre came on to bat, i think i'm gonna bust a Rickey & do the same thing
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-06-05 21:04:58
201.   MMSMikey
please grady please bench him tomorrow.
2007-06-05 21:06:32
202.   k0b3
my hopes for a pierre second half revival goes down the drain everytime he pops up on the first pitch
2007-06-05 21:07:00
203.   bhsportsguy
It really is style points with Juan Pierre, his outs just look so bad, its not as if anyone else is doing anything today but when you hit foul outs and slow rollers to the first, you are not making it look good.
2007-06-05 21:07:11
204.   bhsportsguy
It really is style points with Juan Pierre, his outs just look so bad, its not as if anyone else is doing anything today but when you hit foul outs and slow rollers to the first, you are not making it look good.
2007-06-05 21:07:11
205.   trainwreck
Nice one.
2007-06-05 21:07:12
206.   overkill94
Blum's a lot taller than I figured he was
2007-06-05 21:07:50
207.   Lexinthedena
Has Pierre really said that he's notta gonna change the way he plays?
2007-06-05 21:08:13
208.   bhsportsguy
Nate must be at the blackjack tables right now.
2007-06-05 21:08:34
209.   overkill94
Ruuuuuudyyyyy can't fayal!
2007-06-05 21:08:54
210.   old dodger fan
Great job Rudy.
2007-06-05 21:09:14
211.   kadycee
I came in kind of late - just started watching. So, has Schmidt remembered how to pitch? Or are the Padres just having a weak night offensively?
2007-06-05 21:09:14
212.   Icaros
I don't care what Seanez does this entire season. It's impossible for me to have faith in him.
2007-06-05 21:10:15
213.   still bevens
Seanez has done a good job of not making me scared whenever he comes out to pitch. I guess this is progress.
2007-06-05 21:10:52
214.   neuroboy002
I'm sorry. I just can't get over how a "seasoned" veteran comes to bat in a scoreless tie, knowing full well we have a man in scoring position, is facing a pitcher who has already thrown +110 pitches and swings at the God Almight 1st pitch. It just doesn't make sense.

And nice work by Seanez. Uno-Dos-Tres.

2007-06-05 21:11:10
215.   bhsportsguy
211 Did you miss the East Coast trip, didn't see you around?

Schmidt pitched well, the movement on his pitches was sharp and his velocity was decent. He only gave up an infield single.

2007-06-05 21:11:17
216.   old dodger fan
Nice job by Chris Young.
2007-06-05 21:11:58
217.   Sam in SC
this thing could still be 0-0 when the sun comes up tomorrow.
2007-06-05 21:12:03
218.   MMSMikey
lets go kent
2007-06-05 21:12:21
219.   bhsportsguy
He never goes the other way.
2007-06-05 21:12:26
220.   Icaros

That's his game! My favorite quote this spring was when he said that while it's true he doesn't get a lot of walks, "It's not like I go up there hacking."

He and I must ascribe to different definitions of "hacking."

2007-06-05 21:12:35
221.   JoeyP
Nomar is a singles machine.
2007-06-05 21:12:59
222.   Uncle Miltie
I long for the days when Marquis Grissom was playing center field. By comparison, those hacks at balls in the dirt and overrun flyballs don't seem so bad anymore.

Pierre's lone positive contribution lies on the basepaths. His skills reek "pinch hitter", yet he's getting paid about as much as a #2 starter/cleanup hitter.

2007-06-05 21:13:12
223.   kadycee
thanks for the update - I feel hopeful...
2007-06-05 21:13:27
224.   k0b3
221- Nomar is our Pierre for the year...Pierre is our crap for the year
2007-06-05 21:14:54
225.   MMSMikey
it looked like kent crushed that ball
2007-06-05 21:15:27
226.   Sam in SC
225 - petco ate it.
2007-06-05 21:15:50
227.   dzzrtRatt
207 Not only that, Juan thinks the Dodgers are in first place because of him. Even his outs help the team -- cosmically.

Colletti agrees.

I think Scully is getting wise to Pierre. He didn't seem to like it that Pierre never carries the ball to the infield when he makes the last out in the field. "He always throws it to somebody else."

2007-06-05 21:16:12
228.   bhsportsguy
225 That is why certain former Padres hated playing in Petco.
2007-06-05 21:16:16
229.   JoeyP
Times have to be tough for the Padres when its Bocachica in RF.
2007-06-05 21:17:49
230.   StolenMonkey86
yet he's getting paid about as much as a #2 starter/cleanup hitter.

Maybe 8 years ago. This is the same market that gave Jeff Suppan a $40 million contract over 4 yrs; #2 starter range is apparently now in 8 figure range for free agents. As for cleanup hitters, that's the Carlos Lee price range.

2007-06-05 21:18:33
231.   Bluebleeder87
Well if anything at least Gonzalez is taking allot of pitches, please take notes on that Pierre.
2007-06-05 21:18:46
232.   bhsportsguy
Considering the Padres have been at home since Sunday and the Dodgers got in to town in the wee hours of the morning, it is not surprising the bats are stymied a bit.
2007-06-05 21:18:59
233.   Sam in SC
227 - I thought vin said that with a bit of a "gee whiz, what a nice guy" tone in his voice.
2007-06-05 21:19:44
234.   neuroboy002
So, Matt Stairs has been a pretty solid hitting left fielder this year. Good avg, 7hrs. Yeah, I'm looking at you Gonzales.
2007-06-05 21:20:39
235.   MMSMikey

professional hitter.

2007-06-05 21:20:40
236.   StolenMonkey86
207 - all I want to see him do is get to a 2 strike count and foul a few off a bit more often. All he has to do is not make it look like a bunt . . .
2007-06-05 21:21:56
237.   old dodger fan
Rudy did a great job in the 7th but I am a bit surprised to see him back in the 8th.
2007-06-05 21:22:16
238.   imperabo
Pads are a bunch of whiners. Announcers especially.
2007-06-05 21:23:05
239.   MMSMikey
the dodgers might need to get extra outs from their relievers with saito un able to pitch
2007-06-05 21:23:32
240.   Bluebleeder87

a walk here & there wouldn't hurt either.

2007-06-05 21:23:46
241.   bhsportsguy
Being a catcher is such a thankless job.
2007-06-05 21:24:43
242.   Bluebleeder87
o.k. i'm done with my Pierre bashing for the day.
2007-06-05 21:25:39
243.   Sam in SC
HBP. they say it's hard to hit one out in this park, right?
2007-06-05 21:25:53
244.   old dodger fan
242 It's Wednesday on the East Coast
2007-06-05 21:26:21
245.   Sam in SC
242 - if they go into extras, we may have another chance ;)
2007-06-05 21:26:53
246.   MMSMikey
branyon steals 2nd?
2007-06-05 21:27:02
247.   old dodger fan
Seanez has throw a lot of pitches outside the stirke zone. I'm ready to try someone else.
2007-06-05 21:27:14
248.   Hallux Valgus
that was a ridiculous jump.
2007-06-05 21:27:15
249.   JoeyP
How did Branyan steal?
2007-06-05 21:27:18
250.   StolenMonkey86
240 - if he did that, they'd eventually throw him something out of the zone, but if he leads off with a long at bat, even if he makes an out, he's made the opposing starter a little more tired and will help bring him out earlier
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-06-05 21:27:26
251.   Eric Stephen
Any kind of a throw there gets Branyan. That's unfortunate...a break for the Pads.
2007-06-05 21:28:27
252.   dzzrtRatt
242 Bad timing.
2007-06-05 21:28:39
253.   StolenMonkey86
I blame the pants. They should be retired.
2007-06-05 21:28:50
254.   Bluebleeder87
that one run the Pads just scored seem like 10 runs for some reason.
2007-06-05 21:28:50
255.   MMSMikey
vin "lets see, they are going to wave branyon in" on a basehit to center? umm, yes.
2007-06-05 21:28:55
256.   Hallux Valgus
how can Pierre misread the ball once it's on the ground?!?
2007-06-05 21:29:06
257.   JoeyP
Ok, now Hoffman's gonna have to blow his 3rd straight save against the Dodgers.
2007-06-05 21:29:40
258.   Uncle Miltie
Well that's probably the game.

249- he got an enormous jump off of Seanez

2007-06-05 21:29:44
259.   underdog
I'm definitely ready to try somebody else. Chad Billingsley anyone? Bueller?


2007-06-05 21:30:00
260.   underdog
By Bueller, I of course meant Beimel.
2007-06-05 21:30:00
261.   Bluebleeder87
but then again Hoffman isn't Hoffman anymore so theres still hope.
2007-06-05 21:30:08
262.   MMSMikey
rudy has brayon down in the count, he should have put him away, not hit him in the freakin' foot.
2007-06-05 21:30:13
263.   Sam in SC
257 - well, at least the odds aren't stacked too badly against us.
2007-06-05 21:30:19
264.   k0b3
dodgers lose!! thhhhhhheeeeee dodgers lose!!!!! (because of pierre, wow give up 2 hits and still lose)
2007-06-05 21:30:41
265.   bhsportsguy
Well this is what happens when you lose your closer and you don't put him on the DL.
2007-06-05 21:31:25
266.   underdog
Well, a 1+1 game anyone?
2007-06-05 21:31:25
267.   StolenMonkey86
264 - O ye of little faith. Martin leads off the next inning.
2007-06-05 21:31:37
268.   old dodger fan
265 This is what happens when you don't score any runs.
2007-06-05 21:31:54
269.   Sam in SC
after 8 innings of silence, NOW a rather hesitant and uncertain "beat LA" chant starts. I love confident fans.
2007-06-05 21:32:21
270.   MMSMikey
whats pierre hitting with 2 outs and RISP?
2007-06-05 21:32:37
271.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Branyan pulled a Dave Roberts on us.
2007-06-05 21:33:20
272.   StolenMonkey86
270 - .254/.326/.338
2007-06-05 21:34:00
273.   MMSMikey
i like the guys we are sending up against hoffman in the 9th
2007-06-05 21:34:04
274.   Uncle Miltie
On the positive side, Schmidt looked very good considering that it was his first time pitching in a major league in close to 2 months. He'll be a welcome addition to the rotation. His velocity was in the high 80's and he had a great changeup with a lot of movement on it. He wasn't using his slider very often.
2007-06-05 21:34:21
275.   underdog
269 Heh. But we're not sounding like the most confident fans in the world here either, to be fair.
2007-06-05 21:34:22
276.   Hallux Valgus
Okay, I just watched the hit again. Granted, Pierre's probably not going to get him at the plate anyway, but he misplayed a grounder. A slow grounder. In the outfield. I really didn't think he could look more foolish than the foul pop up bunt leading off the game. I was wrong.
2007-06-05 21:34:32
277.   neuroboy002
He's fast, but has a poor arm and no patience at the plate.

Need another hint? His last name rhymes with "Hee-aire."

2007-06-05 21:34:36
278.   Bluebleeder87

very true compadre

2007-06-05 21:34:37
279.   Who Is Karim Garcia

if there was any justice in the dodger world he'd be hitting the bench in favor of a pinch hitter.

2007-06-05 21:35:04
280.   Vishal
i hate that we're losing a two-hitter.
2007-06-05 21:35:50
281.   Sam in SC
270 - .161/.161/.194

the identical BA and OBP jumps right out at you.

2007-06-05 21:36:05
282.   bhsportsguy
277 Don't be surprised if Pierre still has one more key play in this game.
2007-06-05 21:36:18
283.   old dodger fan
It aint over. It is the Padres after all.
2007-06-05 21:36:53
284.   trainwreck
Sometimes I think it is better that I cannot watch a lot of our games.
2007-06-05 21:37:05
285.   JoeyP
If the Dodgers cant come back against Hoffman, tomorrow's game is a must. Peavy on Thursday is probably an L.
2007-06-05 21:37:43
286.   StolenMonkey86
281 - What he said. I was looking at his career line
2007-06-05 21:38:31
287.   capdodger
275 When are we ever confident? At least we're not using a tired retread of a chant.
2007-06-05 21:38:48
288.   Vaudeville Villain
At least our best hitter gets to lead off. It's only one run.
2007-06-05 21:39:06
289.   Uncle Miltie
Funny how we would rather have our 6,7,8 hitters up than our first three.
2007-06-05 21:39:28
290.   Sam in SC
286 - which means we can at least hope for improvement?
2007-06-05 21:39:34
291.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers last lost a game in which the pitchers allowed 2 or fewer hits on September 4, 2004.

The Dodgers lost to St. Louis, 5-1.

Since 1957:

2007-06-05 21:39:48
292.   Vaudeville Villain
Argh, Blum nearly kicked it.
2007-06-05 21:40:14
293.   Hallux Valgus
287 In fairness, we've all heard plenty of "(Insert team/ Bonds) Sucks" chants at the Stadium.
2007-06-05 21:40:36
294.   MMSMikey
just let the ball float in there, andre
2007-06-05 21:41:19
295.   Sam in SC
280. I didn't realize that until you mentioned it. now I AM depressed.
2007-06-05 21:41:30
296.   bhsportsguy
Nice AB by Ethier.
2007-06-05 21:41:36
297.   Vaudeville Villain
Abreu, please take a pitch or two.
2007-06-05 21:42:21
298.   k0b3
297 - hahaha now ur just dreaming..that's like hoping pierre would take a walk
2007-06-05 21:42:28
299.   MMSMikey
c'mon tomato
2007-06-05 21:42:37
300.   StolenMonkey86
he took a called strike one
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-06-05 21:42:52
301.   MMSMikey
hanging spinner, strike 1
2007-06-05 21:43:16
302.   neuroboy002
Help us Obi-Wan-Olmedo, you're our only hope.
2007-06-05 21:44:16
303.   MMSMikey
olmdeo should have crushed that pitch
2007-06-05 21:44:25
304.   JoeyP
Olmedo seems to be taking alot more pitches this year. I dont remember him walking very much last few years.
2007-06-05 21:44:27
305.   Vaudeville Villain
Well, that's a frustrating way to lose a game.
2007-06-05 21:44:31
306.   Sam in SC
2007-06-05 21:44:41
307.   capdodger
2007-06-05 21:44:45
308.   StolenMonkey86
2007-06-05 21:44:54
309.   k0b3
well like i said, since we lost tonight, the dodgers will be swept...hopefully they prove me wrong.
I also predict that in a blowout game, Pierre will finally show up but it won't matter
2007-06-05 21:45:07
310.   MMSMikey
he got 499 against us better not get 500 in this series(but probably will, of course)
2007-06-05 21:46:05
311.   StolenMonkey86
That was the best starting pitching performance the Dodgers have had in a losing effort.
2007-06-05 21:46:21
312.   Hallux Valgus
Okay, the baseball gods owe us one for that. We'll get it back. I missed Schmidt, but it sounds like he looked good. That's huge.
2007-06-05 21:46:29
313.   Juan
I wish Danys Baez was still here so you guys would have somebody else to talk about.
2007-06-05 21:46:49
314.   Who Is Karim Garcia
I'm going to go beat myself with an extension cord.

Have a good night guys.

2007-06-05 21:47:21
315.   Sam in SC
309. some people's glass is half empty. some half full. yours seems shattered most of the time.
2007-06-05 21:47:23
316.   Bluebleeder87
winning 1 run games is much better then losing 1 run games, on a good note Schmidt looked very sharp in his return.
2007-06-05 21:47:54
317.   bhsportsguy
309 I don't know how you figure that with Young pitching so well at home.

Bad break with Russell falling down on that play, looked like the throw was heading into second anyway. 1st and 3rd and one out, maybe a different AB by Betemit.

2007-06-05 21:48:17
318.   Snowdog
Seanz should have hustled around first into second, and screamed, "Mine!" as the ball floated into the middle infield?
2007-06-05 21:48:20
319.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose
I hate to say it but I think the Pads are a better team . . think its the wild card for the Dodgers. . Ari and Atl and us...
2007-06-05 21:48:34
320.   underdog
Gah, is right.

Frustrating, but you move on. Naive or not, I have confidence they can at least split the next two. Still, sure would like to see Kemp in this series rather than youknowwho.

Night all. Don't get too bummed out here...

2007-06-05 21:49:00
321.   StolenMonkey86
Baez's line tonight: 0.1 IP, 1 hit, 3 R, 3 ER, 2 BB, 0 K
2007-06-05 21:49:08
322.   Sam in SC
the dodgers are an appreciably better team with a healthy jason schmidt than without him. and they were a first place team without him.

there are reason to be hopeful, you just have to look . . . hard . . . with a magnifying glass.

2007-06-05 21:50:11
323.   Vaudeville Villain

I suppose the consolation there is, at least we're not Baltimore fans.

2007-06-05 21:51:07
324.   trainwreck
Not too long till the baseball draft guys. That is our time to shine!!
2007-06-05 21:51:10
325.   Bluebleeder87
Okay, the baseball gods owe us one for that. We'll get it back. I missed Schmidt, but it sounds like he looked good. That's huge.

true, the big picture looks great for us now that Schmidt is back, we still gotta see how his shoulder feels tomorrow though.

2007-06-05 21:51:24
326.   underdog
Yeah, K0b and Rabbits could co-teach a Glass is Half Empty Life Workshop at the Learning Annex. It's one game people!

Okay, I'm definitely out. Night.

2007-06-05 21:51:30
327.   Sam in SC
319. I don't see how you can come to that conclusion at this point in the season, and based on the evidence at hand.

they look pretty evenly matched to me.

2007-06-05 21:51:42
328.   scooplew
We have great pitching -- even better now with Schmidt back -- a wonderful catcher, a solid shortstop, a second baseman who still has power and one solid outfielder in Ethier. Tomko and Hendrickson are out of the starting rotation. Now for the bad news: We are muddled at third base, have a first baseman with no power and a centerfielder who is less than adequate defensively. Time to plug in Loney and Kemp for Garciaparra and Pierre.
2007-06-05 21:52:00
329.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose

I wish it was true . . but the pythageorean formula states otherwise

2007-06-05 21:52:02
330.   dzzrtRatt
319 In the NL, there is only one NL team in the top 5 for pitching and the top 5 for hitting -- The Dodgers. San Diego has only slightly better pitching, and much worse hitting. The only other NL team in the top 5 in both categories is the Mets.

The Giants and D-backs pitching is nearly on a level with the Pads and Dodgers, but they also aren't good hitting teams. But they're better hitting teams than the Pads.

2007-06-05 21:52:32
331.   Juan
See, I have a better arm than he does.
2007-06-05 21:53:39
332.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose

sorry for the negativity . . but being a Dodger fan comes with the territory

2007-06-05 21:53:55
333.   dzzrtRatt
330 The first sentence should read:

In the NL, there is only one NL West team in the top 5 for pitching and the top 5 for hitting -- The Dodgers.

2007-06-05 21:54:26
334.   Sam in SC
329 - I think Pythagoras would forgive us for taking minor liberties . . . .
2007-06-05 21:54:48
335.   neuroboy002
There's this Seinfeld episode where Jerry won't call Alec Berg back to thank him for the playoff tickets. Kramer keeps hasseling Jerry to make the call so they can get tickets to the next hockey game. When Jerry refuses, Kramer comically looks at his friend and says, "You stubborn, stupid, silly man!"

Then there's this situation tonight where we have a man in scoring position with two outs in a scoreless game. The opposing pitcher has already thrown +115 pitches and our proud center fielder swings at the 1st pitch and routinely grounds to 1st.

Grady Little grabs a hold of Pierre's shoulders in the dugout and says,"You stubborn, stupid, silly man!"

2007-06-05 21:55:20
336.   Hallux Valgus
325 I'm constantly reminded of the quote (Lasorda?) that every team wins a third and loses a third, and it's the other third that decides the pennant. Blowouts either way and flukey games like this I chalk up to the outlier thirds. The season is still too long o agonize over suck a game.
2007-06-05 21:55:29
337.   Eric Enders
The Dodgers lost this game tonight because of two people:

1) Andre Ethier. I like Ethier, but he displated a rather stunning degree of stupidity in his 7th inning at-bat. You have Russell Martin on first, which means an automatic runner in scoring position against Chris Young -- in a game in which both teams have had extreme difficulty getting runners in scoring position. Not a single baserunner has been thrown out trying to steal against Young all year. So Martin gets two terrific jumps and what does Ethier do? He fouls off two pitches, including one way out of the strike zone, to prevent Martin from getting to second base. Therefore, instead of scoring easily on Abreu's single, Martin slips rounding second and is thrown out.

2) Rudy Seanez. His faceoff against Russell Branyan was one of the worst pitched at-bats by a Dodger pitcher all year. After getting Branyan in an 0-2 hole, he should have almost an automatic K against the strikeout prone Branyan. Instead, his next three pitches consist of 1. A fastball that bounces to the plate, 2. A hanging slider which by all rights should have been hit for a home run, and 3. A pitch way inside that hits Branyan and puts him on first, from where he eventually scores the winning run.

This was a really frustrating loss, especially given the fact that we'd still be playing if not for the two knuckleheaded moves above.

2007-06-05 21:59:27
338.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose
The Dodgers lost this game tonight because of two people

I dont know if I would blame Ethier bc he did have two hits . . although that sure was a frustrating at bat . . its like he didnt understand the situation . . ahead 2-1 especially . . . he could have taken 3 pitches

2007-06-05 21:59:45
339.   trainwreck
Maybe Grady put on the hit and run.
2007-06-05 22:01:11
340.   capdodger
337 Don't you mean that we'd still be playing if not for one of the knucklehead moves above? If both Ethier and Seanez executed properly, the Dodgers just might have won.
2007-06-05 22:01:53
341.   capdodger
339 Martin didn't look back.
2007-06-05 22:03:23
342.   Jon Weisman
337 - Don't you think Ethier was given a hit-and-run sign?
2007-06-05 22:03:31
343.   Hallux Valgus
I'm pretty sure Steve Lyons doesn't watch the games. Be less aggressive? Is that really an option?

Good Lord are those red D-Backs uniforms ugly. Randy Johnson looks like a giant blood clot.

2007-06-05 22:03:44
344.   Icaros
Abreu also swung at pitches out of the zone when Martin was stealing.

And I've been really disappointed with Ethier's approach this season. He's fully infected by the Garciapierres Virus.

2007-06-05 22:03:49
345.   Sam in SC
337. I think ethier was 0-2 on those two foul offs. I don't recall for sure, but if he was, he was just protecting the plate.
2007-06-05 22:04:55
346.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-06-05 22:07:45
347.   Sam in SC
346 - thanks. we have ruined this one ;)
2007-06-05 22:08:46
348.   Eric Enders
345 "I think ethier was 0-2 on those two foul offs."

The count on him when he flied out was 2 balls and 1 strike.

342 "Don't you think Ethier was given a hit-and-run sign?"

No, I don't, since Martin didn't look back. If it was a hit and run, it was still a really dumb move -- just transfer the blame from Ethier to Little. When somebody is essentially giving you a free base, especially such an important base in a scoreless tie, you take it.

2007-06-05 22:11:35
349.   Eric Enders
The eagle-eyed will read 348 and wonder how Ethier could have disrupted two Martin steals if the count never got to 2 strikes. The second steal he messed up was on the pitch he flied out on.
2007-06-05 22:12:41
350.   Sam in SC
348. he couldn't have been 2-1 when he flied out if he fouled off two pitches.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-06-05 22:16:18
351.   Sam in SC
349 - but you said, and I recall, that he fouled off two pitches.

I looked at the pitch by pitch on, it says it was 2-1 as well. I just don't recall it that way.

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