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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Good News, Bad News
2007-06-05 22:00
by Jon Weisman

Well, the story tonight is Jason Schmidt, no matter the final score. Great to see him have such success in his first game back.

But what a shame it was that Russell Martin, after working so hard to get to second base, lost his footing in between second and third just when the Dodgers were poised to take the lead.

The Dodgers have won enough one-run games - including their most recent game against San Diego, in 17 innings - that they were due to give one back.

* * *

In a huge decline from his 2006 season, Nomar Garciaparra is almost on pace to have a historically bad year for a Los Angeles Dodgers first baseman, while Juan Pierre is in almost as deep in center field.

OPS+ by Principal Starters at First Base, 1958-2007

1990	Murray		159
1995	Karros		145
1978	Garvey		137
1975	Garvey		133
1976	Garvey		133
1970	Parker		132
1999	Karros		131
1974	Garvey		130
1979	Garvey		130
1959	Hodges		126
1980	Garvey		126
1969	Parker		125
1962	Fairly		124
1998	Karros		123
1977	Garvey		121
2006	Garciaparra	120
1963	Fairly		119
1985	Brock		117
1964	Fairly		114
1989	Murray		114
1996	Karros		114
1960	Larker		113
1966	Parker		113
2004	Green		113
1981	Garvey		111
1997	Karros		111
1967	Parker		110
2005	Choi		110
1972	Parker		108
1992	Karros		107
1971	Parker		106
1983	Brock		106
1986	Brock		106
1991	Murray		105
1984	Brock		103
1982	Garvey		101
2000	Karros		101
1965	Parker		100
2003	McGriff		100
1958	Hodges		98
2002	Karros		97
1968	Parker		96
1994	Karros		96
1988	Stubbs		92
1993	Karros		88
1987	Stubbs		87
2001	Karros		85
1973	Buckner		83
2007	Garciaparra	79
1961	Hodges		75

I used EQA for the centerfielders because it incorporates stolen bases:

EQA by Principal Starters in Center Field, 1958-2007

1974	Wynn		.317
1992	Butler		.311
1994	Butler		.310
1975	Wynn		.309
1969	Davis		.302
1958	Snider		.299
1990	Javier		.298
1991	Butler		.291
2005	Bradley		.290
1962	Davis		.290
1964	Davis		.288
1972	Davis		.287
1971	Davis		.286
1982	Landreaux	.285
1983	Landreaux	.285
1993	Butler		.284
1970	Davis		.282
1995	Butler		.281
1997	Cedeno		.281
1973	Davis		.279
1987	Shelby		.279
1988	Shelby		.279
2006	Lofton		.278
1998	Mondesi		.277
2002	Roberts		.276
2004	Bradley		.273
1966	Davis		.271
1960	Demeter		.271
1968	Davis		.270
1985	Landreaux	.270
1986	Williams	.270
1967	Davis		.267
1978	North		.267
1961	Davis		.263
1963	Davis		.261
1999	White		.261
1979	Thomas		.259
1981	Landreaux	.256
1977	Monday		.254
1984	Landreaux	.250
1959	Demeter		.249
1996	Cedeno		.247
1965	Davis		.245
1980	Law		.245
2003	Roberts		.245
2000	Hollandsworth	.241
2007	Pierre		.240
1976	Baker		.230
2001	Grissom		.225
1989	Shelby		.185

Update: James Loney is heating up at the plate - 16 for his last 46 (.348) - with three doubles (.413 slugging) but still no homers and only one walk.

In the recent three-game series at Memphis, Loney went 8 for 14 with two doubles (.571/.571/.714).

In the same period, Matt Kemp is 22 for 48 (.458/.469/.689) with six doubles, a triple, a homer, one walk, four strikeouts, and three steals in four attempts. For the season, Kemps OPS is .931

Comments (348)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-06-05 22:07:31
1.   Hallux Valgus
It's too bad there will be no expansion team to which to send Nomar next year.
2007-06-05 22:08:34
2.   JoeyP
3rd place via Chris Young.
2007-06-05 22:08:44
3.   JoeyP
Both of them.
2007-06-05 22:09:13
4.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose
Wow thats bad . . 2001 had very similar results from CF and 1B too . .
2007-06-05 22:10:26
5.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose
looking further.... I had no idea Karros had so many bad years. . .
2007-06-05 22:11:46
6.   Brendan
why all the long faces?
schmidt, penny, lowe, wolf, kuo/billingsley

we are are two acts of God(maybe 3) on the offensive side of things to having our best team possible on the field. When was the last time the dodgers actually played their best players?
Keep hope alive.

2007-06-05 22:14:44
7.   Xeifrank
Jon (or anybody for that matter), please forward this entry of yours to Dodger management, the LA Times, Donald Trump or anybody else with enormous power. Too many heads in the sand or blind eyes on this one.
vr, Xei
2007-06-05 22:15:12
8.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose
why all the long faces?

mine's mostly due to the fact that were are likely looking at a 2 1/2 game hole . . its a must win tommorrow w/ Peavy on Thurs.

2007-06-05 22:19:39
9.   Hallux Valgus
8 Why likely? Wolf's a fly ball pitcher in a park that caters to fly ball pitchers. Maddux isn't unbeatable. The Padres lineup isn't anything great. We can definitely win tomorrow.
2007-06-05 22:20:29
10.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose

could Nomar's new two year deal be any worse right now , he's blocking cheap young talent with one of the worst seasons at first base in LA's history. ..I wont mention the other guy

2007-06-05 22:21:45
11.   trainwreck
I am sure Dodger management would be very receptive to information using EQA.
2007-06-05 22:25:08
12.   PDH5204
Jon, thanks for proving that I'm not suffering from a bout of the "hysterics". With the possible exception of Butler, we haven't had a truly worthy CF since Jimmy Wynn. So call it cruelly ironic that it was none other than the ToyCannon who said that I was in "hysterics" when I said that we have one of the poorest managed teams in baseball. To end by beating that proverbial dead horse, one Juan Pierre is certainly no Jimmy Wynn.
2007-06-05 22:25:29
13.   Brendan

i've been where you are now. Although they all count the same the last few seasons have cured me of calling a june game a must win. it is ok to scream but make sure you enjoy the ride (no idea what I mean there but I keeping it)

if anybody is confused by my acts of god reference I am thinking Flood(Nomar) and Locusts(Juan) to start.

2007-06-05 22:25:37
14.   Greg Brock
I think of EqA and Ned Colletti like monkeys and typewriters.

It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times?

2007-06-05 22:27:42
15.   Jon Weisman
Tough times happen to the best of 'em.

"Nomar Garciaparra: Better than Gil Hodges!"

2007-06-05 22:30:47
16.   Greg Brock
Nomar is what he is. The other guy...I did not see a drop this drastic happening this quickly. Speed dependent guy around thirty...Yeah, that's not good. But The Player has been a debacle.

Nomar's just a broken down 33 year old with no pop. He had a great career. But kid...It's over.

2007-06-05 22:31:50
17.   Eric Enders
I think Nomar is just trying to pad his Hall of Fame credentials by setting himself up to win as many Comeback Player of the Year awards as possible.
2007-06-05 22:31:58
18.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose
"Juan Pierre: almost as good as Todd Hollandsworth!"
2007-06-05 22:32:11
19.   Hallux Valgus
15 I want to see a mural on the side of a van depicting this motto.
2007-06-05 22:32:31
20.   Dave
Wow!Makes me wonder how the Dodgers have stayed at the top even this long, but I guess it just points out that every team has problem positions.

It seems obvious to me that a pinch hitter should have replaced Pierre in the 8th, but it doesn't seem that was ever considered. My impression is that he very rarely gets a hit in a situation like that late in the game, but I don't know how to go about quantifying that.

On the other hand, I guess many would say there's just as great a possibility of him getting a hit in that situation as any other, he's just not a good hitter any time.

What would/should a manager look at in a situation like that?

2007-06-05 22:34:54
21.   trainwreck
I miss Milton Bradley.
2007-06-05 22:35:39
22.   Greg Brock
19 Sometimes my friends and I call Nomar and a few other players "Bruce Willis." It comes from his role in the Sixth Sense. I can't say it without spoiling the movie, but I'm sure you can figure it out.

I can't type what we call our CF.

2007-06-05 22:37:42
23.   Eric Enders
22 Is it even possible to spoil a movie that's that awful? Really, you'd just be saving people the pain of watching it.
2007-06-05 22:37:49
24.   trainwreck
Is it worse than what you call Karl Dorrell?
2007-06-05 22:39:22
25.   Hallux Valgus
22 sigh. Sixth Sense was ruined for me before I watched it. Luckily, I hadn't opened the DVD so I got full money back. I got it.
2007-06-05 22:39:59
26.   trainwreck
Too bad Ned Colletti was not on the Sopranos.

And gotten whacked.

2007-06-05 22:40:15
27.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose
does it discriminate against other small headed peoples'?
2007-06-05 22:41:42
28.   Gagne55
What a depressing box score. Not even a dominant Schmidt meant anything. Nine baserunners but no runs. Granted no extra base hits, but still out hitting and outwalking the Padres. Did the Blue go 0-runners in scoring position?
2007-06-05 22:42:13
29.   Greg Brock
22 I'm beyond Karl Dorrell now. He's a nice man and a very mediocre coach. I'm just going to not care about football until he's gone and Walker or somebody else is the head coach.
2007-06-05 22:42:23
30.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Pierre worries more, because outside of Colorado, he's never been that great a hitter, but Nomar does have a track record. PECOTA had him at 289/346/461. Loney in comparison was projected at 295/351/470. If Nomar can stay healthy, I think he'll come around. And if he gets hurt, we go Loney. It strikes me that Nomar's just in a bad slump; I haven't heard anything about something akin to the shoulder injury that sapped Green's power.

Tough loss today, but it's June, and Schmidt looked great.


2007-06-05 22:50:27
31.   neuroboy002
Any way we can get this threads stats to Ned and Grady.... Stat! I can't believe this is what we can likely expect of two of our starting nine this year. Compound that with the pitcher's spot and the pressure is really on our other 6.... Kent better start pulling his weight.
2007-06-05 22:56:19
32.   PDH5204
Oh, and Jon, re the poor management, well, I actually like Randy Wolf, but his acquisition blocks Bills or Kuo following the Schmidt acquisition. And so, for the other part of the poor management, compare your piece on the old school pitchers talking about learning to work your way out of trouble and not handing the game over to someone else, and then consider the struggles that Bills had and his working himself out of trouble last year. Old school would have kept him starting, and as I said prior here on DT, I otherwise simply believe that Bills and Kuo had jobs that were theirs to lose. But things are what they are, I suppose, and so here's to Randy having a 1.35 ERA night with a 0.68 WHIP and 10Ks. I'll let you figure out how we score runs when we have a black hole, or nearly so, from Furcal to Martin in the BO. But I hope that you would otherwise agree that it's about time that our best hitter occupied the best hitter's slot in the BO.
2007-06-05 23:00:12
33.   Inside Baseball
30 I'm in complete agreement with you about Nomar. His power will come around, as will Furcal's. Wayne, can you do me a favor and defend The Sixth Sense next? Thanks.
2007-06-05 23:01:33
34.   Greg Brock
30 Nomar's slump is now the entire last half of '06 and the first 1/3 of '07. That's a long slump.

I've been rereading a lot of counterfactual history lately. It would be really fun to do a bunch of "what ifs" on the Dodgers. Especially the 90's. There was pretty good stability in the '70's and 80's, but the 90's was crazy, what with Fox and the contracts and the Piazza trade and all that stuff.

2007-06-05 23:18:17
35.   dzzrtRatt
What if ... Campanis hadn't gone racist on "Nightline."

What if ... Peter O'Malley hadn't been called off his NFL venture by the same mayor that had gotten him started on it?

The first saves us from Fred Claire, basically a family retainer, being moved into the GM spot, which he handled feebly.

The second saves us from Fox, and also brings the NFL's last expansion team here instead of Houston.

Without Claire, maybe we have better drafts, Lasorda retired sooner, no Darryl Strawberry and no Pedro trade. And maybe we sign Barry Bonds.

Without Fox, no Piazza trade and all that followed from that.

Yep, the Dodgers are a good validation for counterfactual history as an analytical tool. And really, the period affected by all this is more like 15 years, '89-'04.

2007-06-05 23:56:12
36.   RMAPasad
Yes, Jon, it was unfortunate that Martin slipped going to 3rd base in the 7th. But in actuality he should have stolen 2nd base and scored on that basehit. Three separate times he had 2nd base stolen, and three times the batter swung at something that thwarted the steal attempt. In fact Abreu took silly hacks and fouled off 2 pitches out of the zone, sending Martin back to 1st base tired out. Chris Young was slow to the plate and Bard is last among NL Catchers in CS %. At that stage of the game, getting Martin to 2nd base on a SB was probably the best way to get a run. So with a guy like Abreu, who's hardly the paragon of baseball common sense right now, the coaching staff has to flash him a "take" sign that allows Martin to steal the base. Which Martin had stolen both times in that Abreu AB. It's a shame to see a game slip away over a mental error such as this.
2007-06-06 00:14:39
37.   Michael D
I have this sick feeling that on Thursday Peavy pitches 8 shutout innings, and we then have to sit through Hoffman getting number 500 off us. Kuo will pitch 6 innings and give up 2 runs. Those will be the only 2 runs of the game, and Juan Pierre will be given another reason not to read this blog.

I'm optimistic in the sense that the pieces are here for us to be better. It's just a question of Colletti admitting his mistakes and putting in the kids. Either that or Nomar hits the DL and gets Pipped out of the lineup.

I just really hope that this off season was Colletti's last where he goes with veterans over youth every chance he gets. I remember on Scout when I was told the kids are no guarantee and Colletti is a genius for providing us with tremendous depth. Veterans are no guarantee either. I was told many times that Loney, Kemp, and Billingsley might not be ready. Well Nomar stinks, Pierre stinks, Tomdrickson stinks, but at least with the kids if they stunk it would only cost $1 million (approx) to find out instead of $25 million or so.

2007-06-06 01:05:54
38.   Eric Enders
35 "Without Claire, maybe we have better drafts, Lasorda retired sooner, no Darryl Strawberry and no Pedro trade. And maybe we sign Barry Bonds."

To be fair, without Claire, we also have no fist-pumping Kirk Gibson rounding the bases and, in all probability, no 1988 World Championship.

2007-06-06 01:06:19
39.   Eric Enders
And if Tommy retires sooner, we probably have no Mike Piazza either.
2007-06-06 02:13:06
40.   Dodgers49
Is this the Juan Pierre we've been watching? Or is there another Juan Pierre out there somewhere?

>>> For all the flak Juan Pierre has received for his relatively low on-base percentage for a top-of-the-order hitter, there have been few better clutch hitters.

Pierre was hitting a major league-best .462 this season before Tuesday in late-inning pressure situations — being in the seventh inning or later with the batting team ahead by a run, tied or having the tying run on base, at bat or on deck. <<<

2007-06-06 04:51:14
41.   D4P
1. The Player's OBP is now a cool .298.
2. Perhaps even more alarming, the Rosebush's OBP is .333
2007-06-06 05:03:51
42.   D4P
Since his historic 3 + 1 game against the Nationals, PJ has 4 singles in 28 ABs, with no walks.
2007-06-06 06:11:54
43.   D4P
According to Pythagorean Records, the Padres are on pace to finish 14.5 games ahead of the Dodgers in the standings after 162 games.

That's crazy!

2007-06-06 06:36:56
44.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 34

But the slump last year was related to injury. And there's precedent for guys being bad for a year, and then returning to their career norms--look at Mike Lowell, for example. Nomar seems to be healthy; he isn't that old (and his age was already factored into the PECOTA projection); I find it hard to believe that this is his new performance level.

Re: 33

Never did see the whole movie--only the last 20-30 minutes, so I wasn't sure what was going on. =) The little kid seemed astonishingly "adult," though.


2007-06-06 06:41:30
45.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 44

It just occurred to me--another player who's an example of how streaky baseball can be is Beltre, of course, who had an MVP caliber season-and-a-half before drastically regressing to his career norm.


2007-06-06 07:06:08
46.   Marty
So John Shelby falls into the "what you can't do, teach" category I guess.
2007-06-06 07:11:39
47.   PlayTwo
Bud Black deserves some credit for sending Branyan. Grady, apparently, did not anticipate the steal but should have.
2007-06-06 07:14:06
48.   old dodger fan
43 Being fairly new to some of these stats bear with me but I think the rationale is that if you win or lose a disproportinate number of 1-run games early in the season it will even out over the course of the season. We are 14-5 in 1-run games and the Pads are 10-11 (after last night). If you apply our winning % to our 1-run games and apply their winning % to their 1-run games we have won 3 games too many and they 3 games too few. If they were 3 1/2 games ahead one-third of the way thru the season it would stand to reason that they would finish 11 1/2 ahead at the end if we all perform at the same level.

To those of you who know more about this than I do feel free to correct my simplistic overview and add a comment about whether this formula gives adequate weight to a team with an outstanding bullpen that can perserve 1-run leads.

2007-06-06 07:30:36
49.   ToyCannon
Jimmy Wynn stands tall. The love he would endure here at DT if he was our current CF even with the popgun arm would be Martinish. If there ever was a DT poster child player it was the Toy Cannon.
2007-06-06 07:34:13
50.   ToyCannon
I refuse to believe that players like Nomar, Berkman, and A Jones are done. I know in Nomar's case we are now talking almost a full year of futility. Hope springs eternal.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-06-06 07:42:45
51.   Sushirabbit
50, "Hope springs eternal."

Even for GLUE?

Yes, I've fallen off the no-nickname wagon.
Surely, he's been beaten enough to be Glue? Gradly Little's Unending Eidolon.

2007-06-06 08:02:33
52.   ToyCannon
We hardly knew you but here is a scouting report on Eric Hull from Baseball HQ
Eric Hull (RHP, LAD)
Signed as an undrafted free agent in '00, the 27 year-old has been recalled to the Majors for the first time. Hull has been used mostly as a reliever the past two seasons, but has started games prior to that. He has a career 3.47 ERA, 3.6 Ctl and 8.4 Dom. He's short -'5'11" - and doesn't have great velocity with his fastball (sits in the high 80s), but he's proven to be durable. Hull offers a sinker, slider and changeup. He keeps the ball down effectively and limits HR, even in the comfortable confines of his home park in Las Vegas. He keeps hitters off-guard by changing speeds. Despite his high Dom, he doesn't have a knockout pitch. In addition, his command can be spotty and he'll put runners on base with walks. Hull's upside is that of a middle reliever.
STATS: Las Vegas (AAA) - 20 g, 2-2 3.62 ERA, 27.1 IP, 1.8 Cmd, 4.9 Ctl, 8.9 Dom, 1 HR, .235 oppBA
CURRENT ROLE: Long reliever
POTENTIAL: Middle reliever
2007-06-06 08:03:38
53.   D4P
What's below "Middle Reliever" on the upside chart...?
2007-06-06 08:05:18
54.   Bumsrap
Could a Padres sweep be the best thing that could happen to the Dodgers especially if the Dodgers offense is anemic during the sweep?

That might call for change and protecting the status-quo because it has put the Dodgers in first place would no longer be true.

2007-06-06 08:07:31
55.   Bumsrap
52 - Hull to Colletti regarding Tomko and Hendrickson--"I can do that"
2007-06-06 08:08:00
56.   Bumsrap
from todya's Times
This is a longshot, one that agent Scott Boras wouldn't endorse for his client, but if the Angels and Yankees could work out a trade and Rodriguez agreed not to opt out of his contract, which calls for $81 million over the next three years, the deal would actually be a lot more palatable to the Angels, because the Texas Rangers — division rivals, no less — are obligated to pay about $9 million a year of Rodriguez's contract for the next three years.
2007-06-06 08:09:01
57.   chazmac138
A Padres sweep is about as good of an idea as letting M.Knight Shamalamadingdong make another's never a good thing.
2007-06-06 08:09:41
58.   ToyCannon
Yes, I've seen plenty of long slumps in my life and just about when everyone jumps on the "he is done bandwagon" things turn around. Sometimes they are done but I don't think it is Nomar's time yet. However as D4P has stated, diet changes everything so in todays world we don't really know how reliable the historical information is.

Not saying I wouldn't want Loney playing 1st right now just not convinced that Nomar's day as an 800 OPS hitter are over. His glove blows this year to. I'd be very happy if they moved his salary to the Yankee's and promoted Loney but that is about as likely as Kemp playing CF this year.

2007-06-06 08:14:48
59.   old dodger fan
56 Unless ARod has a protracted slump he will be a free agent at the end of this season. He may still be a Yankee when it is all over but it will be with a new contract. We will get a chance to bid along with other teams with money to burn and it won't cost us any young players but it will cost us a LOT of money. Feel free to disagree but I really believe that is how it will play out and the big winner in all of it will be the Rangers.
2007-06-06 08:16:22
60.   ToyCannon
The Yankee's would have to give up the pursuit of the Wild Card before they would trade Arod to a team they would face in the 1st round of the playoffs. The Angels would be the best team in baseball with Arod. Not much of a stretch since they are close to being the best team without him.

If Arod would agree not to opt out then the Dodgers should be making some serious inquiries. Hold back Kemp, Chad, Kershaw and everyone else should be fair game.

2007-06-06 08:17:18
61.   ToyCannon
True, the Rangers must be giddy with the idea that they will be off the hook.
2007-06-06 08:24:26
62.   ToyCannon
Billingsley updated scouting report from Rotowire. It was a comparison between Lincecum and our man Chad but I'll only reprint the Chad data since it is a premium site.
Fastball 65
Curveball 60
Slider 55
Changeup 40
Control 50
Delivery 60
Composure 60
Billingsley pitches like a classic power pitcher, establishing his 92-96 MPH four-seam fastball early in the count before working his breaking pitches in. Billingsley works his fastball outside to get ahead in the count. His 81-83 MPH slider has apparently lost a little velocity from when he was in the minor leagues. Billingsley also throws a 79-81 MPH curveball. Both breaking pitches are swing-and-miss offerings. He has a good motion with a high three-quarters delivery that he repeats well. Billingsley's motion is quick, which might help him catch some baserunners but costs him some command. His command is only average at this point, and he gets away with a lot of mistakes because of his raw stuff. Billingsley pitches aggressively and looks totally at home on the mound. He has learned to slow the game down a little when runners get on base, although he could still progress in this area.

Billingsley could come inside more with his fastball. He does have an 89 MPH two-seamer, but he doesn't seem to trust it because he throws it infrequently. Billingsley's changeup is still a work in progress, so most of his pitches seem to come in at the same speed. Because he has a quick delivery, his arm sometimes doesn't catch up to the rest of his body, leaving his pitches up in the zone. Like Lincecum, Billingsley will eventually turn into a flyball pitcher.

Billingsley's future is very bright, perhaps more so than Lincecum's.

2007-06-06 08:29:16
63.   Gagne55
54 NO!!! There is never and I mean never a good time to lose, especially against one's top rival.
2007-06-06 08:37:48
64.   screwballin
Is anyone else wondering whether the Yanks might be tempted by Nomar? He could fill their 1b gap, and he'd also be great for the Boston rivalry.

Problem is, I can't imagine a realistic return, unless they would package him for A-Rod.

2007-06-06 08:43:16
65.   ToyCannon
As crazy as it sounds the Yankee's would be better off with all of our deadbeats.
Nomar, JP, Tomko, Hendrickson would all be improvements. How sad is that?
And we'd improve just by using our depth. How cool is that?
2007-06-06 08:46:44
66.   ToyCannon
BP has an article on Little and the Dodgers. I liked this paragraph.

"That is not to say that Little is a softy. Right-hander Jason Schmidt signed a three-year, $47-million contract with the Dodgers this past winter after six seasons with the San Francisco Giants in part because Little was the manager—Schmidt had played for Little while coming up through the Atlanta Braves' farm system. "He tells it like it is, and I think every player, deep down, appreciates that," Schmidt said. "He'll tell you when you've done good things, but he'll also lay it on the line when things are bad. Maybe you don't want to hear the bad, and you'll go in the corner and cry about it for a day, but you also realize and appreciate that you're being dealt with honestly. And the record shows he's a winner."

No wonder I kept seeing JP in a corner once a week with a hankie.

2007-06-06 09:03:32
67.   Bumsrap
I have heard that Nomar has a no trade contract and if so I do not think he would accept a trade to the Yankees. But, Kent might be tradeable to the Yanks to play first and dh. Abreu could move to second, Nomar to third, and Loney to first.

Then AROD could sit on the bench for the same reason/logic Pierre plays and Kemp stays in Vegas.

2007-06-06 09:05:04
68.   Bumsrap
66 - Nothing speaks louder than a lineup card posted in the dugout before the game.
2007-06-06 09:09:14
69.   still bevens
66 I keep waiting for Grady to pull a Major League and see Pierre doing pushups on the field after popping out the 3rd time in a game.
2007-06-06 09:10:57
70.   Bumsrap
65 (Joke)= Yankees trade AROD to Dodgers for Nomar, JP, Tomko, Hendrickson while Steinbrenner parties with Billy Martin.
2007-06-06 09:15:55
71.   Jon Weisman
James Loney is heating up at the plate - 16 for his last 46 (.348) - with three doubles (.413 slugging) but still no homers and only one walk.

In the recent three-game series at Memphis, Loney went 8 for 14 with two doubles (.571/.571/.714).

In the same period, Matt Kemp is 22 for 48 (.458/.469/.689) with six doubles, a triple, a homer, one walk, four strikeouts, and three steals in four attempts. For the season, Kemps OPS is .931

2007-06-06 09:17:09
72.   underdog
Is today Eeyore Day on the DT comments?
2007-06-06 09:17:31
73.   Sushirabbit
58, TC, just so you know, I was refering to Pierre, with the Glue thing, not Nomar. I remember Nomar's good years and frankly there's no comparison between those two.

I think the right thing was done in regards to Betemit (I was one that thought he would really help the team this year) but it would be nice to see the same thing applied to Pierre.

2007-06-06 09:18:43
74.   underdog
72 It's great to see that. Kemp's been hot for awhile, but now Loney's joining him. Still, as you point out, not much power as of yet. I still think it'll come, but Loney really is starting to project as a JT Snow type with maybe a little more upside. I look forward to seeing them both on the team, this year.
2007-06-06 09:22:55
75.   ToyCannon
I wouldn't get to caught up in what Kemp and Loney did in Memphis. Everyone from Mitch Jones to D Young destroyed the Memphis pitching and with good reason. It is terrible. At this point Loney has been as big a disapointment in AAA as Nomar has been for the Dodgers.
2007-06-06 09:24:12
76.   Jon Weisman
75 - Oh well. Thanks.
2007-06-06 09:25:40
77.   Wes Parker and the Vicious Circle
It's hard to imagine that the Yankees would give up A-Rod without getting a young starter and/or infielder in return. I don't think getting A-Rod for this stretch run is worth the long-term loss of a Billingsley or a LaRoche. Not to mention that A-Rod would blow up the clubhouse chemistry that Ned & Grady have labored to create. At least this can be said of the most recently acquired vets (Gonzalez, Pierre, Lieberthal, etc.): they're all good character guys. This was not accidental following the Bradley/Drew era.
2007-06-06 09:30:08
78.   FirstMohican
Someone needs to create a character ratings website - in jest or not.
2007-06-06 09:31:59
79.   underdog
Tim Brown has a good piece on Jason Schmidt's return (and the pitching in the NL West) now up:
2007-06-06 09:32:39
80.   ToyCannon
Vegas pitching staff is worse then Memphis and is by far the worse pitching staff in the PCL based on ERA and WHIP but not taking into effect park effects.
2007-06-06 09:42:44
81.   ToyCannon
Yes it was. If Ned had his way JD would still be playing for the Dodgers. Ned cares about winning and the character crap is just PR unless your talking Dukes where everyone in baseball should just say bye bye and let him start his career in prison. Ned is the same guy who traded for Lugo a bad character guy. If Depo had traded for Lugo the front page article by Bill would have been about how Depo doesn't care about character and how far the Dodgers have fallen that they would trade for a public wife smacker. Instead Ned traded for him and not a mention was made about his history. He's also known as a clubhouse malcontent.
2007-06-06 09:44:56
82.   Wes Parker and the Vicious Circle
Seriously, wouldn't Drew's "Character VORP" have been a useful stat to the Red Sox last offseason?
2007-06-06 09:53:37
83.   ToyCannon
About as usefull as the Manny Character Vorp has been while he's lead the team into postseason just about every year he's been a member.
2007-06-06 09:53:53
84.   Bluebleeder87

it all evens out & keeps me from going insane.

2007-06-06 09:59:43
85.   Nagman
This was in today's SD Union-Tribune:

"Before last night's game, Dodgers GM Ned Colletti and Tony Attanasio, the agent for Ichiro Suzuki, chatted for more than an hour. Suzuki, the Mariners' leadoff man and center fielder, is eligible for free agency in November. The Padres are among the teams that covet him. "

Would a Ichiro for Pierre trade be that crazy? Would it require a crazy package of prospects?

2007-06-06 10:03:23
86.   Kevin Lewis

A tear of joy formed at even the hint of that possibility. But it is highly unlikely. Would anyone even want Pierre at this point?

2007-06-06 10:04:14
87.   regfairfield
85 Would you trade Ichiro for Juan Pierre? What would you want thrown in to get that deal done?
2007-06-06 10:05:15
88.   Humma Kavula
Pierre is untradable.
2007-06-06 10:05:57
89.   D4P
I'm no expert, but wouldn't talking to a player's agent be more related to signing that player as a free agent than trading for said player? If you were gonna trade for him, wouldn't you be talking to his team's GM instead of his agent?
2007-06-06 10:07:57
90.   kngoworld
89 Not if the team would only agree to a trade if the player was to sign a contract extension.
2007-06-06 10:07:59
91.   regfairfield
89 I think league rules forbid that sort of thing, but I could be wrong about that.
2007-06-06 10:10:18
92.   old dodger fan
85 It would require a Mariner's GM who has written off his teams chances of making the playoffs. Since they are 5 games over .500 and 5 1/2 games behind the Orange County Angels of Los Angeles and 1 game out of the Wild card lead it does not seem realistic. Who in the world would think they have a better chance of catching the Angels with JP in CF?

If they get 12 games behind things might change.

2007-06-06 10:11:24
93.   Humma Kavula
91 I thought they also forbid a player's representatives talking to other teams while under contract, but I, too, could be wrong.
2007-06-06 10:16:54
94.   Nagman
92 Yes, 85 should've mentioned the premise that the Mariners fall out of the race and Ichiro voices some frustration of wanting to play for a winner.
2007-06-06 10:17:03
95.   regfairfield
92 Why would a team that's looking to rebuild want to take on a worse salary? Especially when that team has Adam Jones.

If the Dodgers truly wanted to be rid of Pierre at this point, and get something in return it would take eating a big chunk of his salary, and one or two real prospects like Billingsley or Kemp.

2007-06-06 10:21:06
97.   Kevin Lewis
I love the picture of the article on Drew in Alyssa's blog.
2007-06-06 10:21:24
98.   Jon Weisman
New post at Screen Jam.
2007-06-06 10:22:19
99.   Doctor
The team at times looks badly coached. After TWO pitchouts how was Etheir not taking 2-1 (or was it 3-1?) to let Martin steal with no outs. Instead he swung at a borderline pitch and blooped out to left. In a game like that you have to let runners steal and even sacrifice them to 3rd if there are no outs. With Young giving runners second base there's really no reason leadoff hitters on base shouldn't score most of the time. I can understand not hitting Young hard because he is tough, but I don't understand not executing the little things when he gives them to you.
As far as Martin falling down….. well there's no way to prove a direct link, but maybe if he didn't catch every game he has his legs under him- the guy looked flat out beat.
2007-06-06 10:22:27
100.   ToyCannon
I don't think the league holds JP in the same contempt as DT. He did get some offers this off season and has been traded for twice in his career.
Bavasi is exactly the type of GM who would trade for JP while trading A Jones away. Remember this is the team that traded Carlos Guillen away for someone that only 1% of DT posters could name without using the internet because he's no longer in baseball while Carlos is one of the most important players in the AL.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-06-06 10:23:02
101.   Jon Weisman
The thing about Drew this year is that it's not enough for many of the naysayers to be right about him (to this point, anyway). They don't just gloat. They look at his career-worst slump and say, "That's the way he always is." There's something oxymoronic about that.
2007-06-06 10:23:44
102.   DodgerBakers
92. Who in the world would think they have a better chance of catching the Angels with JP in CF?

No one on this board, certainly, but GM's never cease to amaze me. You never know, hope springs eternal...

2007-06-06 10:23:53
103.   old dodger fan
Get used to JP. He is with us. Maybe not for 5 years but for at least 2 unless there is a whole new front office that wants to remake the team.
2007-06-06 10:25:32
104.   ToyCannon
Come on, he was beat because he was running on every pitch. Martin's workload will be a cumulative effect that will ground him in Aug/Sept not a game to game problem. And it is very possible that Grady is right and that he can handle the workload at his age. Hope so because if he staggers during the pennant run his lack of production will be hard to make up.
2007-06-06 10:28:01
105.   paranoidandroid
Eating contracts:

Has anyone released a player other than Russ Ortiz with years left and millions left?

Dreifort's contract was eaten due to injury, but there are insurance options for that sort of scenario.

I don't think anyone would take Pierre right now in a trade, even if we eat half the contract. We also would not get much in return if we were able to trade him, but I don't think that would be the issue. If we could cancel the contract outright, I think we'd all consider that but would Ned?

What I simply can't comprehend is not giving him a day off, or not dropping him to 8th for at least a day or two. That's on Grady.

And how does he not take a pitch when Young was struggling? He made four outs on seven pitches! Three pop-ups!

2007-06-06 10:31:16
106.   paranoidandroid
I agree, the only way to dump Pierre would be to force a team to take him while still paying most of his salary. That would take a blue chip or two. Like putting Encarnacion into the Penny/LoDuca trade.
2007-06-06 10:31:24
107.   regfairfield
100 True, but Bavasi wasn't willing to give Pierre 5/44 six months ago, so I don't think he would do it now, and give up Adam Jones in the process.

While Pierre might have value to some teams, the Dodgers would still have to pickup some of his salary, plus something else if they want anything in return.

2007-06-06 10:31:55
108.   Doctor

Maybe, maybe not, but there is a reason coaches rest (even young) catchers. Sure all the false starts were part of the reason he fell around second, but you cant be sure a more rested player wouldn't hold up better. The idea that Martin is somehow "different" and doesn't need days off is insane.

2007-06-06 10:34:08
109.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know if today is Eeyore Day at DT, but I believe someone was really excited recently to get an empty honey jar and a popped balloon for a birthday present.
2007-06-06 10:36:30
110.   old dodger fan
105 Four outs on 7 pitches is a valid criticism.

If Young was struggling we could sure use some struggling pitchers. On JP's last AB Young's pitch count was getting high but generally I thought most of our first 4 hitters were swinging a lot while from Gonzo on down they were taking more.

Young pitched well and he made JP look bad but nobody looked good.

Has anybody seen enought of JP in previous years to comment on his defense now vs then? Is it worse? It seems to me it is. Does he wear contacts? Maybe he has some vision issues. If his depth perception is off just a bit CF could be a nightmare to play and pop ups while batting could result as well. He has never been a great player but he has been a lot better and he is too young to fall off this fast.

2007-06-06 10:41:01
111.   Jon Weisman
Will Carroll writes today:

"Here's a little thought experiment: If you have a rotation like the Dodgers with two low pitch count guys (Schmidt and Penny), a sinkerballer who says he pitches better on short rest (Derek Lowe), a guy still coming back from Tommy John (Randy Wolf), and a young, injury-prone pair of fifth starters (Hong-Chih Kuo and Chad Billingsley), how do you best put together a rotation? I'm guessing that it doesn't involve a set rotation, but I'll bet that several readers could put together a better model than my guess."

2007-06-06 10:41:33
112.   Kevin Lewis

On a positive note, I will echo the pleasure it was to watch Jason pitch again, and the amazing play Rafael made at short (plus his stolen base). As painful as it was to lose this game, I too am shocked that Rudy does not make me cringe any more. I guess that is a victory in itself.

2007-06-06 10:41:37
113.   Bob Timmermann
Juan Pierre would have to get really bad to reach "Russ Ortiz in Arizona" bad.

Ortiz had adjusted ERAs of 64 and 63 in his two years in Arizona.

In his San Francisco renaissance, he's all the way up to 76.

2007-06-06 10:42:57
114.   ToyCannon
I know he's a better player then he's shown but I certainly was hoping he'd tank in Boston. It is no different then hoping a girlfriend who spurned you for an obnoxious rich boyfriend ends up realizing she was better off with the poorer but sensitive guy:)
2007-06-06 10:43:09
115.   Kevin Lewis
Last night seemed like the perfect example that both teams are lacking that one impact bat. Oh Kemp, how I wish you were platooning all three OF positions.
2007-06-06 10:44:40
116.   Hallux Valgus
110 Lamentably, I saw lots and lots of Pierre in Colorado. His defense looks significantly worse now. It's as if he has no confidence at all. He reminds me of Soriano in spring training last year with his indecision and confusion on reading balls.
2007-06-06 10:45:13
117.   Eric Stephen
111 I wonder what makes Billingsley injury-prone? Is it is youth alone, or does he have some glaring mechanical flaw? (if only he could possess the "perfect" mechanics of Mark Prior)
2007-06-06 10:45:24
118.   ToyCannon
When did Chad become injury prone? Really bothers me when premium site writers play fast and loose with facts.
2007-06-06 10:48:56
119.   silverwidow
I guess Chad became injury prone when he pulled an oblique last year.
2007-06-06 10:51:35
120.   Jon Weisman
118 - I have to think that's just a mistake.
2007-06-06 11:09:38
121.   Eric Stephen
Looking at the list above, one thing that jumps out is how good Brett Butler's tenure was in LA. Sometimes I forget how good he was.

While in high school, I had a poster on my wall that makes me laugh and cry when I think about it...the poster title was "Triple Threat", and it featured the Dodger OF of Brett Butler, Eric Davis, and Darryl Strawberry.

2007-06-06 11:15:48
122.   ToyCannon
Should have been the greatest outfield in LA Dodger history.
2007-06-06 11:15:53
123.   paranoidandroid
Young was indeed struggling/laboring in that last inning he worked. His pitch count was up to about 120 and he had walked Betemit after giving up singles to Martin and Abreu. He was working hard during the Eithier at bat and Betemit might have worn him down even further with his full count walk. He pitched a great game and even swung the bat well twice, but I think he was on the ropes and we could have pushed across a run in the 7th. Martin falling down hurt us, but Pierre's quick swing at the first pitch was difficult to watch. If only Furcal was leading off last night, I would have loved to see him drive the ball and work the count a bit. Ifs...
2007-06-06 11:18:21
124.   paranoidandroid
Ned must have envisoned Pierre being our Brett Butler. He was a gritty and gutsy little guy. I remember in the 92 debacle he had like a hundred infield hits.

Pierre isn't Ned's Butler, he is more like Ned's DeShields.

2007-06-06 11:23:02
125.   Marty
Actually, he would be good as Ned's butler.
2007-06-06 11:25:19
126.   Bob Timmermann
100 infield hits?
That's quite a bit. Butler had just 171 hits in 1992. And 28 were extra base hits. That leaves 143 singles. So Butler had just 43 singles that went to the outfield?
2007-06-06 11:29:06
127.   Disabled List
Did you guys know that the Dodgers drafted both Brett Tomko and Randy Wolf in 1994? I didn't know that until just a few minutes ago. My mind is blown. Whoa.

Ok, I'm back.

2007-06-06 11:30:43
128.   Jon Weisman
DeShields' EQAs his first two years with the Dodgers were .263 and .271. Finally, in his third season, he fell to .229. Then the next two years with St. Louis, he rose to .280 and .284.

Pierre's career-high in EQA is .276 in 2004. He was at .272 in 2003. Otherwise, he has not cracked the .260 mark.

2007-06-06 11:31:35
129.   Eric Stephen
124,126 Butler also saved 100 runs with his ginormous glove, which he called "Lucille".

Which would make his glove "Lucille 1"

2007-06-06 11:33:09
130.   D4P
Butler also got on base an awful lot.
2007-06-06 11:36:43
131.   ToyCannon
Which is perplexing to me. Butler had no more power then JP does but somehow he finangled walks when it should be the last thing any pitcher would want to do is walk a powerless speed demon.
2007-06-06 11:38:36
132.   underdog
109 Heh.

Re: Pierre, don't want to add much to the harping on the subject, but I do agree he should at least get a rest here and there. He's struggling and I can't see how a day off (okay, bring him in as a pinch runner or whatever so his streak stays alive) can do any harm. I actually think Grady's usually pretty good about stuff like that overall and may even be frustrated with Pierre too, so I dunno why this doesn't seem to be a consideration.

2007-06-06 11:39:01
133.   Eric Stephen
Incidentally, Eddie Murray's 1990 season cemented his "favorite all-time player" status in my 14-year-old mind.

The only season in baseball history that a player (Murray) led the major leagues in batting average yet did not win a batting title.

2007-06-06 11:42:32
134.   Marty
I honestly can't remember that Murray was that good for the Dodgers.
2007-06-06 11:46:19
135.   Bob Timmermann
Murray was very good in 1990. But I think he might be best remembered for hitting into a DP in a big game against the Giants in 1997.

That was the dreaded Mark Johnson Game.

Stupid former Stanford players always mess things up!

2007-06-06 11:46:28
136.   ToyCannon
I don't remember Stan Javier being that good in 1990. That is a fun list to review. Jon, you should do it for every position.
2007-06-06 11:48:19
137.   Bob Timmermann
I meant stupid BRIAN Johnson.
2007-06-06 11:52:15
138.   scareduck
105 - Has anyone released a player other than Russ Ortiz with years left and millions left?

The Angels kicked Kevin Appier under the bus in 2003 with another year and a half of his contract remaining, worth something like $12-14M. At the time it was the most expensive DFA in major league history, but it has since been eclipsed by the Ortiz DFA.

2007-06-06 11:53:07
139.   underdog
The Mitch Jones Marching and Chowder Society (owner and proprietor, Daniel Z) will want to read the new Dodgers Q&A column up on the LA Times.

Someone asks "Can you find out why the Dodgers don't bring up Mitch Jones from the minor leagues." Answer includes: "Yes, he's having a phenomenal year and, with the Dodgers so lacking for power, it seems like a simple solution: Promote the guy with the most homers in the organization. But there's a big difference between minor league pitching and major league pitching. Plus the Pacific Coast League is a hitters' league, and many professional baseball people take the stats with a grain of salt, considering them inflated. (Although, in Jones' defense, no one can really say for sure how Jones would do unless they give him a chance first.) The Dodgers, perhaps, see something in his swing or his approach at the plate that gives them doubt he'll hit as well in the big leagues."

And "Here's an interesting idea, though: Why not promote Jones for interleague play in Toronto and Tampa Bay later this month?" ....

2007-06-06 11:53:38
140.   jasonungar07
Yeah my thing with Pierre is we already had a very capable leadoff hitter who is now bouncing between leadoff and 2 hole.

If there was a glaring hole in leadoff coming into the year I could understand it a little more.

I just can't take the fact that our first 4 hitters have less home runs than Eric Byrnes. I don't think you win that way in 2007. Or 1997. 87? sure.

2007-06-06 11:54:27
141.   scareduck
139 - I keep reading the Vegas box scores and keep thinking, he's worth a shot in right, at least.
2007-06-06 11:54:46
142.   Eric Stephen
135 It was very disheartening for me that Murray hit into that double play.

One year earlier, Murray was an Oriole and was sitting on 499 HR during a trip to Anaheim. I happened to be sitting at the game with my cousin and brother, and we were sitting next to Charlie Hough and his son. My brother struck up a nice conversation with Hough, and the question came up during a Murray at-bat, something along the lines of how many HR does Eddie Murray have against knuckleballers. My cousin said, under his breath, "it depends how many times he faced Charlie Hough." We still laugh about that to this day; I'm not sure Hough heard the snide remark though.

Murray did hit a double during that game and I remember standing and yelling that he attempt an inside-the-park HR. Alas, he did not.

2007-06-06 11:55:51
143.   ToyCannon
Because they have this guy name Saenz who has already proven he can mash major league pitching and Jones is not on the 40 man so they don't have to do any roster manipulation. Really can't see M Jones seeing anytime with LA until Sept, if then.
2007-06-06 11:57:17
144.   Humma Kavula
139 It would be interesting to see Jones get a shot, but promotion over Kemp? I don't get that.

As far as the promotion for interleague play goes... that implies that the Dodgers would use him as a DH. That would make sense to me, sort of, if it were his glove that was keeping him from being promoted, but as far as I can tell, that's not the case. If promoting him is the plan, and he can field his position, why wait?

2007-06-06 12:01:52
145.   Humma Kavula
144 Answering my own question, I guess the DH gives him a shot without slighting any of the current starters. Whatever. Mitch Jones in right!
2007-06-06 12:02:48
146.   D4P
Mitch Jones's 2006 numbers in 441 ABs: .234/.318/.447/.765

It seems doubtful that he figured out how to hit all of a sudden.

2007-06-06 12:03:55
147.   Bob Timmermann
Murray hit one homer off of Tom Candiotti, two off of Charlie Hough, one against Tim Wakefield, and one against Phil Niekro.
2007-06-06 12:04:11
148.   Jon Weisman
135 - Watch how you talk about the school that boasts the 2007 NCAA men's golf champions!
2007-06-06 12:04:33
149.   regfairfield
I just don't think a guy with Jones' profile could have much luck in the bigs. You need to be Jack Cust to strike out as often as he does in AAA and still be somewhat productive.

Even if Jones did walk a ton, would this organization care if he was hitting .220? I doubt it. Right now the Dodgers have two slots on the 40 man roster effectively open (Repko and Hamulack can go on the 60 day DL). One should go to Jonathan Meloan, and we should keep one around in case of emergency, like if Furcal goes down for the year and we need to call Hu up.

It just doesn't make sense to burn a slot on Jones when he probably won't be any better than Olmedo.

2007-06-06 12:05:57
150.   paranoidandroid
I am going from memory only, but I am quite sure it was over 90 infield hits. I remember it was one of the only things that kept me going all year, that and Karros getting his shot. That year we had all our starting pitchers on the DL at the same time. We had the worst record in baseball. And the LA Riots to boot.

I'll try to find out with a search about Butler's infield singles.

He worked a count and would take a walk. He was a slap hitter, but didn't pop-up like you know who.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-06-06 12:06:16
151.   Sam DC
I don't know if folks ever read the Soul of Baseball blog by Joe Posnanski, who wrote the book of that tile 'bout Buck O'Neil but it's finely written and a reliably fun and thoughtful read.

Today's entry follows up on the pitch count discussion sparked by Bissinger's NY Times article and followed up in SI as discussed in Jon's last pot.

If you scroll down, he's got some fun stuff about Bo Jackson.

2007-06-06 12:09:49
152.   ToyCannon
I've heard that Posnanski is the best baseball writer in the country but I've yet to read any of his books. Looking forward to his O'Neil book. Maybe Bob can give us a review.
2007-06-06 12:11:04
153.   underdog
Yeah, I think Jones' strikeout rate should be the biggest red flag, and his power numbers would surely be nowhere near what they are in the PCL. And even Jack Cust's come back down to earth. An open slot for the Dodgers should be reserved for Kemp.

Meloan will be interesting to track, because it was mentioned in I believe Ken Gurnick's notes the other day that he might be the next minor league reliever to get a shot if a need arises.

2007-06-06 12:15:05
154.   regfairfield
153 Right, Cust isn't setting the world on fire anymore, but since he can still walk, he's a useful player. Right now he's hitting .225/.410/.575.
2007-06-06 12:19:59
155.   D4P

It doesn't get more "Moneyball" than that.

BTW: Has Billy Beane ever signed a Boras client...?

2007-06-06 12:22:52
156.   Bob Timmermann
I read the Posnanski book Monday on the flight from MSP to LAX. I will have a review up Wednesday or Thursday.

I will say that it is one of the finest baseball books I've read.


And I started reading the book assuming that I would hate it.

I read all 270+ pages from start to finish without stopping.

2007-06-06 12:25:21
157.   Jon Weisman
156 - Man, I miss those days.
2007-06-06 12:25:31
158.   scareduck
144 - sorry, I didn't mean to imply he should get the call before Kemp.
2007-06-06 12:27:20
159.   scareduck
155 - before or after the player changed representation? Barry Zito had several contracts with the A's, but then changed from Arn Tellem to Boras just before he became a free agent.
2007-06-06 12:29:23
160.   D4P
before or after the player changed representation?

I mean, has Billy Beane ever negotiated with Boras and signed one of his clients?

2007-06-06 12:32:17
161.   Bob Timmermann
To be precise, I did put the book down to wash my hands after going to the restroom.
2007-06-06 12:36:38
162.   kngoworld
Only to wash your hands, right? Not during the rest of the restroom experience.
2007-06-06 12:38:09
163.   Bob Timmermann
I think I've said too much, but the experience was one in which I was seated.
2007-06-06 12:38:42
164.   Sam DC
156 Um, wow. And me on a book buying moratorium!

Wonder if there's some way a guy could get his hands on a bank to read without actually buying it or paying for it.

Hmmmm . . .

I'll have to talk to Mr. Franklin about this.

2007-06-06 12:38:58
165.   ToyCannon
Wow, quite an endorsment. Maybe I can fit it in while waiting for boy Potter to vanquish evil.
2007-06-06 12:41:16
166.   Bob Timmermann
July 21 at bookstores and libraries near you.

Or in Sam's case, a bank.

2007-06-06 12:43:56
167.   Sam DC
Oh, now I see.

Man I hate blowing the set up.


2007-06-06 12:52:11
168.   Marty
That Soul of Baseball blog is terrific. Thanks Sam.
2007-06-06 12:52:21
169.   LAT
Long story, but my family and I have been invited to Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic the last week of June/first week of July. Does anyone know what I can expect in terms of baseball? IIRC, the Dodgers have a facility there. Is it even baseball season then? Are there major leagues? Any advice on what I should seek out would be much appreciated.
2007-06-06 12:53:22
170.   old dodger fan
I just checked my local libraries website and they don't have it. I will keep my rule violation to myself.
2007-06-06 12:54:40
171.   Marty
I love how Posnanski describes the Mets:

The Mets have two of the 10 most exciting players in all of baseball and a bunch of guys who are like 58 years old. It's like you have Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran and the cast of Cocoon.

2007-06-06 12:55:55
172.   paranoidandroid

Major league record for infield hits in a season is 72 by Brett Butler in 1992.

I was off by almost 30. My bad.

2007-06-06 12:59:09
173.   Sam DC
168 You're just a sucker for poker talk.
2007-06-06 12:59:54
174.   old dodger fan
171 David Wright is pretty exciting and he's 24 years old.
2007-06-06 13:05:24
175.   El Lay Dave
172 Still, as 126 points out there were 143 singles for Butler, the 72 (!) infield hits (assuming all were singles) are one more than half his singles!
2007-06-06 13:07:58
176.   berkowit28
132 To have Pierre sit out a game or two when he's not complaining of being "tired" and put in the only currently available OF, Brady Clark, is not going to do much (and means they can't rest Gonzo late in the game except by putting Pierre back in).

What we all want - bring up Kemp - only makes sense if they decide to sit down Pierre for a week or so and let Kemp have a real chance. Otherwise Kemp is just sitting around on the bench most of the time - not too useful.

I don't know what it will take to get them to do this, maybe a minor injury. Kemp has been knocking down the door for several weeks now, while Pierre keeps popping out. At a certain point, you have to wonder when they'll do it for the good of the team. Of course, what happens if Kemp does really well in his week up here? Probably send him down again anyway, and bring him up again later, before finally swallowing several millions in just using Pierre as a pinch runner until a suitable trade can be found, also swallowing millions, who knows when.

It's understandable that this scenario results instead in procrastination, probably hoping Pierre will pick up production a bit to be able to avoid doing it. But, sooner or later, if Kemp keeps up as he's doing, it's surely going to happen.

Worst come to worst, bring up Kent as 4th outfielder platooning with all 3 OFs, and send down Clark. Can Clark be sent down?

2007-06-06 13:08:41
177.   JimBilly4
I am not certain why I am so obsessed with Mitch Jones. I think it is the complete Dodger power outage that seems to have lasted approximately forever. Plus you want to cheer for the little guy.

It doesn't seem fair to judge M. Jones on his 2006 stats, which were not good (although he did still hit 21 HRs). His 2004-2005 years his line was approximately: .256/.340/.525/.870, averaging 33 HRs in 492 ABs. At 27/28 years old but in the top-heavy Yankee organization he seemed ready for the Majors before that dissapointing 2006 season.

Just for reference this year he is .303/.402/.697/1.099. I don't think anyone thinks he is capable of this at the MLB level, but it does make you wonder if he could do the .850 OPS thing...

That said, he strikes out a lot, once every 3 at bats. So it does make one nervous. And there is no way he should be promoted over Kemp. Part of me would like to try him at 1B, but barring multiple injuries, that probably doesn't happen. I hope we trade him to some team with a similar power shortage that can give him a chance. Then he can Billy Ashley himself and everyone can stop worrying about the guy who didn't get a chance.

2007-06-06 13:10:07
178.   Ricardo
I get depressed every time I read that outfielders like Andruw Jones, Tori Hunter, Ichiro Suzuki, Aaron Rowand will be FA after this season. Can Colletti make a Odalis Perez type of deal to get rid of Pierre?
2007-06-06 13:15:15
179.   k0b3
Interesting note : last night colletti and the agent for Ichiro talked for over an hour....

i hate to say it but one thing I hope will happen is Nomar and Pierre pull a hammy in the same game..that would be a miracle...then bring kemp to play CF and Loney to play 1st(Loney would slug better than slap hitter Nomar) wow that would be a great day

2007-06-06 13:17:04
180.   D4P
Does Ichiro's agent have any other clients besides Ichiro?
2007-06-06 13:21:09
181.   Ricardo
180 Maybe Ichiro´s agent is Julio Franco´s agent too and Colletti is trying to bring a veteran to play first base! :)
2007-06-06 13:21:30
182.   k0b3
180 - yea i believe so but not sure exactly who. I'm pretty sure Ichiro is his biggest client tho. The agent's name is Tony Attanasio.
2007-06-06 13:22:00
183.   ToyCannon
If you don't see me anymore just look for me at the Soul of Baseball blog.
2007-06-06 13:22:35
184.   regfairfield
180 Yes, but I can't find the list.
2007-06-06 13:23:05
185.   Hallux Valgus
J. Saltalamacchia was something like 5 of 10 throwing out baserunners. Then the Marlins went and stole 5 on him today without getting caught once.
2007-06-06 13:23:34
186.   old dodger fan
180 Bruce Bochy
2007-06-06 13:23:47
187.   paranoidandroid
I agree that Kemp is knocking at the door and what I expect to happen is the four outfielder rotation. I don't think it will take moving Brady Clark either, I think if we are able to go with 11 pitchers for a stretch, we'll call up Kemp.

We just need to sit down Pierre at times. He is making his case for needing to sit out a game.

2007-06-06 13:27:21
188.   k0b3
if the dodgers can't score against maddux tonight, they will be swept and get shut out in all three games
2007-06-06 13:28:36
189.   D4P
Taking a page out of Jon's "moving Pierre down in the lineup isn't much of a solution," neither is benching him for a game here and there. The solution is to get rid of him completely, and failing that, to use him (sparingly) off the bench.
2007-06-06 13:29:40
190.   still bevens
188 The Nationals touched up Peavy in his last start. If they can do it, we can do it.
2007-06-06 13:30:23
191.   D4P
I'm going out on a limb and predicting that the Dodgers will win the K/Guo-Peavy game. In my experience, baseball doesn't care much for "sure things".
2007-06-06 13:31:43
192.   Jon Weisman
Mitch Jones: Not as good as Phil Hiatt?

2007-06-06 13:33:10
193.   Sam DC
190: TWICE this year the Nationals have beat Jake Peavy!
2007-06-06 13:33:33
194.   k0b3
190, 191 - i hope you guys are right. Peavy seriously owns the dodgers. i don't remember the last time the dodgers scored on him...or even had a threat for that matter.

189 - i would LOVE to see Pierre become a bench warmer but it's not going to happen. Either is a trade because trading pierre would mean that Colletti is addmiting to a mistake and this might scare off potential free agents ("if you can't play then we'll just trade you away"). Also the fact that Grittle is stubborn doesn't help (look at Julio Lugo from last year)

2007-06-06 13:34:47
195.   Curtis Lowe
194 - Sept 18 2006 the Dodgers went neck and neck against Peavy. Scoring 4 runs.
2007-06-06 13:35:41
196.   Jacob L
I haven't read all the comments, but what strikes me from Jon's post is that Stan Javier (Stan Javier!?!) had one of the best single seasons for a Dodger centerfielder. Just stunning.
2007-06-06 13:42:25
197.   Marty
Mariano Duncan owns Jake Peavy!
2007-06-06 13:42:46
198.   paranoidandroid
189, 194

Moving him down isn't a solution in the long run, but he doesn't get as many at bats. He leads the team in outs and has the lowest OBP of any starter. That screams to be moved from the top two spots in the line-up.

A rest day is called for, and a few games in the 8th slot. It motivated Furcal last spring, didn't it? Grady rests everybody, except Juan. I don't get that. Kent was on fire and he sat him down during the last homestand and he has had two hits since then. Why sit your hottest hitter down but you won't sit down someone who is really struggling? It is illogical.

2007-06-06 13:46:14
199.   k0b3
198 - Grady Little IS illogical

well class time, hope for an offense explosion tonight! (by that i mean like 3 runs please?)

2007-06-06 13:48:59
200.   bluegold
Kemp, Kemp, Kemp... You people are deluding yourselves.

Kemp is not the answer. A proven bat is.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-06-06 13:49:55
201.   old dodger fan
Peavy-12 starts this year
Earned runs
0 runs-5 times
1 run- 3 times
2 runs- 1 time
3 runs- 2 times (Nats both times)
4 runs- 1 time (Arizona)

Average start was 6 2/3 innings

2007-06-06 13:56:26
202.   regfairfield
200 And where would this proven bat come from?
2007-06-06 13:58:16
203.   twerp
What GM would be dumb enough to agree to swap starters--Schmidt and Kuo for Hendrickson and Tomko?

Oh, wait. Didn't the Dodgers just do that, sorta?

Maybe this internal "trade" will work out. It's off to a pretty decent start.

2007-06-06 13:58:18
204.   Marty
And if we get that proven bat, could we have Kemp swing it?
2007-06-06 14:04:42
205.   bluegold
204. Kemp swings, misses. Swings, misses. That is why he is where he is.
2007-06-06 14:05:48
206.   Jon Weisman
204 - LOL.
2007-06-06 14:05:57
207.   bluegold
202. Colletti is better equipped to answer that question.
2007-06-06 14:07:00
208.   D4P
I went to Lake Tahoe
The water was cold
And in all that blue
I couldn't find gold
2007-06-06 14:08:20
209.   ToyCannon
Is that because the last group of veteran bats he got(JP, Nomar, Gonzo) are working out so well?
2007-06-06 14:10:37
210.   trainwreck
The first round of the MLB draft usually takes half an hour, because picks come in fast.

ESPN2 is stretching it from 11-3pm!!! I hate you ESPN.

2007-06-06 14:12:52
211.   jasonungar07
I guess maybe we should have signed Matthews after all. 37 runs, 20 extra base hit, 8 bombs, 38 rbi, 9 steals .292/.352//812

I love how we didn't sign the current NL rbi leader cause it was 6 years and his defense was shaky. Meanwhile we spend 80 million on Nomar/Gonzo and Pierre and that defense is shaky too. 2 of whom block our young players while the other is 5 years anyways.

I agree with 200 I want Kemp to play too but we need a legit bat in the middle of our order. Because if Kemp came up and then began hitting like some of our vets he would be sent back down. We need someone our GM can trust..So maybe Rich Aurilla.

2007-06-06 14:15:19
212.   bluegold
The deficiencies of JP, Nomar, and Gonzo do not make Kemp a savior, which is how he appears to be regarded here.
2007-06-06 14:18:16
213.   regfairfield
211 Carlos Lee's contract is going to look amazingly bad in two years. We only spent 68 million on Nomar/Gonzo/Pierre and we won't have to worry about two of those contracts later on. When you consider that Lee is playing in a park that was built for him, he's someone that the Dodgers should have avoided.
2007-06-06 14:18:48
214.   Penarol1916
212. I'm not sure that he is regarded as a savior so much as a better option and a sign that management recognizes some of the deficiencies of the team and a first option to improve those deficiencies before trying to acquire some mythical veteran bat that will not be had cheaply. It just makes sense to give him a try before trading away assets.
2007-06-06 14:19:59
215.   regfairfield
212 Again, who would you rather have than Kemp, and how would realistically obtain him?

It's very easy to sit back and say "we need a proven third baseman (or whatever)" without giving any details.

2007-06-06 14:22:53
216.   Rob M
For the record, I noticed Carroll calling Billingsley injury prone when I read UTK this morning. I wrote him an email disputing it and he wrote back suggesting that I hadn't done my homework. So I looked up Billingsley's career record, which shows normal workload patterns for his whole career, and wrote Carroll back. His response was:

"He's very ... what's the word. The guy is never 100%, at least saying there's this or that. I don't want to say prima donna, but it's not far off."

Maybe he knows something we don't. I've never heard any of this.

2007-06-06 14:23:50
217.   D4P
I'm not sure that he is regarded as a savior so much as a better option

See: Choi, Hee-Seop

2007-06-06 14:24:25
218.   bhsportsguy
210 They need time to have those snazzy produced pieces breaking down these players.

Someone could become the next Mel Kiper!

2007-06-06 14:24:49
219.   bluegold
212. It just appears to me that the offensive woes of this team cannot be solved as simply as bringing up a rookie. It is wishful and delusional thinking.
2007-06-06 14:26:30
220.   bhsportsguy
216 That is strange, certainly if he was going to complain about fatigue or something like that we would have heard about that.

I think I'll send a note to Tony Jackson to see if he has any thoughts about that characterization but as someone (like many here) who have followed Chad's career, I find that curious to say the least.

2007-06-06 14:26:38
221.   trainwreck
Keith Law is their baseball Mel Kiper.
2007-06-06 14:26:57
222.   Bluebleeder87
But what a shame it was that Russell Martin, after working so hard to get to second base, lost his footing in between second and third just when the Dodgers were poised to take the lead.

after seeing the replay a couple of times yesterday, Martin's legs simply gave out out of exhaustion

2007-06-06 14:27:30
223.   LAT
Best line from the Posnanski blog:

I'm sorry we missed each other. I hope we can have lunch soon.
The Point

2007-06-06 14:27:48
224.   Curtis Lowe
216 - Maybe he has him mixed up with the other Billinsley from A Christmas Story, I've heard stories about him...
2007-06-06 14:28:12
225.   regfairfield
219 And hoping for a mystical proven bat to materialize from the ether isn't?
2007-06-06 14:28:47
226.   bluegold
215. Colletti is paid to work out such details. I know he is the same guy who brought us JP, but he's got to get ONE thing right at some time.
2007-06-06 14:32:02
227.   trainwreck
Ned gets some things right, it is just when he screws up, he screws up badly.
2007-06-06 14:32:12
228.   Hallux Valgus
226 So basically you're arguing that the offense is flawed, and we should all sit back and count on the guy who built the flawed offense to go out and fix it based on the assumption that sooner or later he has to get lucky. To me, that sounds far more delusional than giving a trial to a rookie at no cost to the team either in salary or relinquished talent.
2007-06-06 14:34:25
229.   Vaudeville Villain

Just because somebody is paid to do something doesn't mean they're good at it.

Anyone who makes a Juan Pierre type deal can immediately be characterized as being terrible at his job.

2007-06-06 14:34:41
230.   jasonungar07
Juan Pierre's contract is going to look amazingly bad NOW and in two years.

But your probably right, cooler heads should prevail, I am just really frustrated.

2007-06-06 14:35:56
231.   Penarol1916
219. Nobody is saying that he would solve all of the offensive woes, just that he could replace at least one of the offensive black holes and there is a decent chance he would provide an upgrade. You seem to be putting a lot of words in people's mouths while failing to address the questions people have of you. If all you are willing to do is shoot down strawmen and not back up your one suggestion, I'm not sure why you are participating in a discussion.
2007-06-06 14:38:58
232.   Vaudeville Villain
By now, I've just sort of resigned myself to the fact that our center field situation will be disastrous for this year, probably next year, hopefully not for three years after that. I'm done complaining about it.

Just don't ask me to blindly trust the guy who made the deal.

2007-06-06 14:39:10
233.   JoeyP
48--Thats essentially it. The Dodgers 1-run record should even out eventually, although the 2004 team managed to have a 32-16 record in those types of games.
2007-06-06 14:39:58
234.   Bluebleeder87

i'm in no way a professional on this stuff (obviously) but Billingsley's mechanics look pretty traditional compared to say Jake Peavy i'm not saying Peavy is gonna have an injury this year or next but his arm slot & mechanics scream out arm trouble in the future (IMO). He kind of reminds me of Eckersley.

2007-06-06 14:40:02
235.   Ricardo
Who do you think that will be Dodgers´ two first picks in the draft? I believe Logan White will draft Bumgarner and the other I don´t know, What happened to Mcgeary?
2007-06-06 14:40:20
236.   trainwreck
lol I doubt anyone will ask you to do that here.
2007-06-06 14:42:03
237.   trainwreck
Yeah, apparently McGeary was throwing so slowly the Dodgers think they may get him in supplemental round. I am hoping if Porcello actually drops we suck it up and take him and deal with Boras.
2007-06-06 14:43:49
238.   paranoidandroid
219 226
Colleti is capable of admitting a mistake and moving on (Baez, Jae Seo). I am hopeful that he sees that in Pierre. The difference is the five year contract.

A proven bat from a trade takes time to work out. Going with 11 pitchers and allowing Kemp to compete with the other three starters in the outfield doesn't take but a phone call.

Kemp must be in the doghouse or something. They thought enough of him for him to make the team out of spring training and he performed before getting hurt. Then he has lit up AAA and he still waits.

Remember this quote from your favorite Radiohead blogger "Kemp will be in the big leagues on the Dodgers roster before we are done with the Mets next week"

We have two off days coming up, June 14 and June 18, then we don't get another one until the all star break.

I think Kemp comes up and we go to 11 pitchers next week or sooner if we have to disable Saito. We can even go with 11 pitchers after the 18th of June since we know that Big Bird, Tomko, and Bills can all go more than an inning or two if we need them to.

Kemp might not be the solution, but we might have that question answered in the next month or so. It makes sense to find out before the trade deadline anyway, doesn't it?

2007-06-06 14:44:00
239.   ToyCannon
Goldstein at BP just put up his mock top 30 draft. Bob please skip:
20. Los Angeles Dodgers

The Dodgers also have high school arms bunched up at the top of their draft boards, and now that the top names gone, they're said to be pondering the relative merits of a trio that includes Smoker, righty Kyle Blair from Southern California, and Phoenix-area right-hander Tim Alderson. Bumgarner's price tag doesn't scare them off here, however.

Pick: Madison Bumgarner, LHP, South Caldwell HS (North Carolina)

2007-06-06 14:45:47
240.   Bluebleeder87
Ned gets some things right, it is just when he screws up, he screws up badly.

kind of like when Home Depo got Phillips to be our every day catcher

2007-06-06 14:45:48
241.   Eric Enders
216 sounds like the response of a guy who got caught making a mistake and tries to lamely rationalize it instead of simply admitting the mistake.
2007-06-06 14:47:16
242.   regfairfield
240 He got rid of Kaz Ishii to do it. Would you rather have used David Ross as the everyday guy?
2007-06-06 14:47:33
243.   Eric Enders
240 Many people wanted him to sign Varitek or some big free agent catcher instead. That would have been such a great move, you know, with Russell Martin waiting in the wings.
2007-06-06 14:47:36
244.   Vaudeville Villain

I like Bumgarner, only because of the name. Make it happen, Ned.

2007-06-06 14:48:04
245.   bhsportsguy
233 I wouldn't say it will even out but that would also mean that Arizona's one run record (they have a few more one run wins then the Dodgers) should even out also.

I think for San Diego, Arizona and the Dodgers, their one run records are the product of good pitching and inconsistent offense so that they are always in the game and when they have faced teams outside the division against teams that don't have a good bullpen, they can keep a game close and win it at the end.

From what I have seen in the observations about the NL West, it will be a question of what player, whether from their system or a trade will make the biggest impact on the race. San Diego is probably the team least likely to make a big move since they really don't have a lot to trade from their system. Will Arizona do it, doubtful, they decided to go with youngsters and I don't think they want to tie up salary right now. That leaves the Dodgers and though I can't see a boatload of prospects going for a player (one reason is I can't guess who that player might be) I do think if they decide to upgrade they could do it but who would it be and where would he play?

2007-06-06 14:50:28
246.   Ricardo
237 I think the Cubs will draft him and I also read that Brewers are going to draft Aumont.What about the position players?There are two guys from Puerto Rico one is an outfielder that I don´t remember the name and the other is a SS named Nefi Soto, both look like good 3rd round picks.
2007-06-06 14:51:41
247.   JimBilly4
192 Mitch is younger than Phil Hiatt was when he had those amazing minor league years. I would also argue he appears to have slightly better patience and a slightly superior pre-28 year old BA.

Also, Phil Hiatt only really got 50 at bats to show what he could do (the majority of his major league at bats were before his apparent minor league explosion ). Even then he had an ops of 700 with 2 HR, not good, but better than certain CFs I could mention.

That being said, late-blooming prospects are highly suspect. It is unlikely even if Mitch is given a chance somewhere that he will get much more than 50 at bats to prove his minor league number are not a fluke. I don't really believe he is a real MLB slugger, but I just think it would be fun (and just) for someone to give him a chance.

2007-06-06 14:52:19
248.   bhsportsguy
239 Will the Griddle put up a draft post tomorrow for all of us to gather? (all five of us that is) :)?

That mock draft also has the Pirates taking a high school catcher at No. 4 because the Pirate's ownership has said they will not go over slot money for that pick.

BTW - if you have premium access on, there is a very interesting piece today about MLB coming down hard on signing bonuses (requesting a 10% decrease across the board) and how teams have to inform them if they plan to go over slot.

2007-06-06 14:53:18
249.   bluegold
231. I'm sorry if my discussion prowess does not meet your standards. But I'll continue to participate anyway, thank you.

Expressing my opinion -- and isn't this what this place is for? -- is not putting words in people's mouth. It is my opinion that some of you regard Kemp more highly than he deserves to be -- elevating him to a savior-like stature. It is also my opinion that a batter who has proven he can hit major league pitchers is a more viable solution than Kemp.

Who is that batter? I DON"T KNOW. That is Colletti's job to know. He's getting paid to know. I'm just a little runt participating in a discussion that you feel I have no business participating in.

2007-06-06 14:53:18
250.   Rob M
241 I had the same feeling. Especially since he told me to "look it up" when I first wrote asking him to explain. The email I sent back to him after that first email (the one that got the "prima donna" response) follows:

"His year by year IP don't indicate any injuries. They've been cautious with him whenever he's shown any soreness. He strained an oblique last year and they shut him down for a bit, but I figured that was just to keep his workload down. In fact, his workload looks pretty ideal. IP from 2004 to 2006 are 134, 146, 161 and he's perfectly healthy this year. I guess what I meant is that there's "pitcher" and "injury-prone pitcher" and I don't think a month on the DL as a rookie get's you moved to the latter camp.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-06-06 14:53:41
251.   paranoidandroid
He is an all star catcher, so I'm not suggesting we do this. He calls a great game and has the respect of the pitching staff.

However, like Biggio, would Russell prolong his career and be more valuable if he went back to third base? Just saying it, not suggesting it.

We don't have a legit catcher to replace him, but down the road the question will get asked as it did with Piazza. The difference being that Martin is a better defensive catcher than Mike was/is.

2007-06-06 14:53:59
252.   ToyCannon
Philips was a fine backup catcher but the worse starting 1st baseman in LA Dodger history.


2007-06-06 14:55:50
253.   bhsportsguy
252 And I get to see him twice this weekend!
2007-06-06 14:57:31
254.   paranoidandroid

Phillips only played first because Tracy wouldn't play Hee Sop. Also, Tracy had to play Dionner Navarro so playing Phillips over Hee Sop was a way of disrespecting DePo.

2007-06-06 14:58:26
255.   ToyCannon
Not really, we just took offense that you infered that Ned had the answer even though he put us in the position we are in. 1st place is great but the offense is still a problem. He can make a good decision (Furcal) but he can also make a bad decision(Lugo) so just saying Ned knows best seems silly.

Kemp is probably not the savior but even with his warts he's better then anyone of our current starting outfielders.

2007-06-06 14:59:12
256.   Ricardo
251 One hint is if they draft a guy like Mesoraco tomorrow.
2007-06-06 14:59:35
257.   bhsportsguy
250 I forgot about his visit to the DL last year but since it didn't involve his arm, elbow or shoulder, it didn't register with me.

I thought Will was implying some type of "attitude" or "makeup" issue with Chad and I always thought that was the least of anyone's concerns about him.

Maybe he just remembered the DL trip in 2006 and that Chad has been in the bullpen all this year (not due to any physical issues as far as we know), and used that to come up with his cute "injury-prone" tag.

2007-06-06 15:00:52
258.   paranoidandroid
252, 253

I first got tivo when Phillips was playing and he was my favorite Dodger for one reason: He would put his tongue in the corner of his mouth and leave it on his lip and I would pause it and show my wife and that helped draw her in as a baseball fan which she is fully now. My daughter did that same thing with her tongue all the time for about a year so I grew fond of Phillips. Also, anyone who pisses off TJ Simers is good in my book.

As a ballplayer, he was a decent backup who couldn't throw out a baserunner.

2007-06-06 15:01:01
259.   bluegold
238. I am not against giving Kemp a shot. I'm just not blown over by his performance last year and earlier this year. There are reasons why he hasn't been brought up. Maybe no being able to hit major league pitchers is one of them.
2007-06-06 15:01:24
260.   Eric Enders
249 "It is my opinion that some of you regard Kemp more highly than he deserves to be"

Even if that is the case our high regard for Kemp is far, far more reasonable than your own evaluation of him, which was expressed so concisely in 205: "Kemp swings, misses. Swings, misses."

I have a serious, non-sarcastic question for you: What level of minor league performance should be required for a player to get a chance to play in the majors? Kemp, over the last three years, has dominated the minor leagues at every step. He has proven that AAA is not especially challenging to him. Are you saying such a player should never be given a chance? How would any player ever establish himself as a major leaguer under those ground rules?

2007-06-06 15:01:26
261.   Bluebleeder87
He got rid of Kaz Ishii to do it.

thanks for refreshing my memory, but Phillips really stunk it up for us, i guess it was an even trade.

Would you rather have used David Ross as the everyday guy?

he was a good catch & throw guy, but getting rid of Ishii was really good so even trade it is.

2007-06-06 15:03:37
262.   Eric Enders
251 I think Martin would have relatively little value playing anywhere but catcher. He'll hit enough to be only an average third baseman, and we'll lose the fantastic defense behind the plate.

Look, we already have the perfect catcher. Let's not mess it up.

2007-06-06 15:04:54
263.   paranoidandroid

I still believe he'll get his shot next week. Unless Kemp is in serious trouble for off the field antics, he has earned his shot more than once and we have a need. He is in the Show by the 13th of this month! Quote me on that.

2007-06-06 15:06:26
264.   paranoidandroid
I agree. Biggio had more power. My only concern is the demands of catching means he can't play everyday (or shouldn't Mr. Little!). He is the heart and soul of this team and so valuable, I believe if he gets hurt, we don't make the playoffs.
2007-06-06 15:12:57
265.   silverwidow
Kemp wasn't ready last year (he should've spent the entire year in Jax) - but now that he's dominating older competition in AAA, while also greatly improving his plate discipline, frankly, he belongs up. There's a greater chance of seeing him continue to improve than not.
2007-06-06 15:15:30
266.   bluegold
260. Kemp had his chance last year. Had a great week, then "Kemp swings, misses. Swings, misses." He had another chance earlier this year before he got hurt. Left no lasting impression on me. You might have answered your own question. Tearing em' up in AAA does not automatically translate into success against major league pitchers. Maybe that is the same conclusion Dodgers management is drawing. I don't know about you, but I am not in baseball. Colletti, Little, et al, are. They know more about Kemp than I. With what they know, they don't seem to be in a hurry to bring him up. There must be reasons.
2007-06-06 15:15:34
267.   underdog
263 I hope you're right - are you thinking this because their long stretch where they need an extra pitcher will be over? (And Saito will presumably be healed by then.) Just curious why you're so optimistic. You may be right.
2007-06-06 15:15:51
268.   Bluebleeder87


2007-06-06 15:16:47
269.   silverwidow
266-Kemp had two months of double-A experience under his belt when he was called-up last year. That's his "chance"? Doesn't compute and that's not how it works with prospects.
2007-06-06 15:19:30
270.   underdog
266 Last year vs. this year are two entirely separate propositions. He may have left no lasting impression on you this year when the season started, before he got hurt, but he sure looked to me like someone who was swinging the bat extremely well, and who showed some improvement from last year in ability to lay off breaking and hit breaking stuff. I don't think he's a savior either but do think he's far more talented at this point than Pierre, a little more talented than Ethier, and even though Gonzo's been okay probably better than him, too. From what I've seen of him this year both in ML and AAA level.

Isn't it possible that what Colletti and co. "see" is not something lacking with him, but a lack of room on the current team to get him the full time play that he needs? I don't agree with them, because I think a move should be made to get him starting, but isn't it possible it's not something about him directly but trying to manage the guys they have currently? Just asking...

2007-06-06 15:19:50
271.   D4P
we already have the perfect catcher

On the other end of the spectrum, Jason Kendall is making $13,429,623 this season to do this:


2007-06-06 15:23:24
272.   ToyCannon
That is Ray Olyer bad.
2007-06-06 15:24:37
273.   Humma Kavula
266 Six hits with a double in 14 AB doesn't impress you? I guess he did get out 8 times.

Again, nobody is promising that Kemp is the answer -- just that he is better than what the Dodgers are currently trotting out to CF. Many are confused as to why he lost his job after he got hurt. All his supporters are saying is give him a chance before you trade him and a pitcher for Aaron Rowand (and I like Aaron Rowand).

2007-06-06 15:25:37
274.   Eric Enders
266 "He had another chance earlier this year before he got hurt. Left no lasting impression on me."

That says a lot more about you than it does about Matt Kemp.

2007-06-06 15:25:39
275.   scareduck
Many are confused as to why he lost his job after he got hurt.

Because Ned Colletti can't admit to making a mistake?

2007-06-06 15:25:52
276.   Humma Kavula
271 272 I know his payroll has something to do with the fact that he's still playing every day, but surely, Billy Beane has a better option somewhere in the system. Whatever happened to Fat Catcher Jeremy Brown?
2007-06-06 15:28:16
277.   Eric Enders
276 Beane DFAed him the other day.
2007-06-06 15:28:35
278.   bluegold
269 270. Again, Colletti/Little have more knowledge of the Dodgers club than any of us. If they believe that bringing Kemp up would improve the team, don't you think they would have done it by now, regardless of what they have to do to manage current personnel? And as some of you say, it's so easy to bring him up. And yet, they haven't done it. Maybe Kemp is not all that you envision him to be -- something they know but you don't?
2007-06-06 15:28:38
279.   Humma Kavula
276 Typed too quickly. "His" in the first half of the sentence should refer to Kendall, not Beane. "Payroll" should be "paycheck."
2007-06-06 15:29:49
280.   underdog
Wasn't Daric Barton formerly a catcher? Was he switched because of injuries and/or defense? Makes me wonder...
2007-06-06 15:31:56
281.   bluegold
274. Dang! Couldn't some of you just discuss w/o these roundabout jabs and insults? Kemp left no lasting impression on me. That is my opinion. Am I not entitled to that?
2007-06-06 15:33:06
282.   El Lay Dave
FWIW Dept., Dodgers career vs. Maddux:
 Luis González 106 33 6 0 10 21 8 11 0 0 3 0.311 0.360 0.651 1.011
 Juan Pierre 29 11 3 0 0 2 0 0 10 0 2 0.379 0.419 0.483 0.902
 Jeff Kent 78 23 5 0 4 12 3 15 0 0 5 0.295 0.333 0.513 0.846
 Brady Clark 33 11 2 0 0 2 2 3 1 1 2 0.333 0.371 0.394 0.765
 Nomar Garciaparra 15 4 2 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 1 0.267 0.267 0.400 0.667
 Andre Ethier 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.333 0.333 0.333 0.667
 Olmedo Sáenz 6 1 1 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0.167 0.167 0.333 0.500
 Mike Lieberthal 52 12 2 0 0 6 0 6 0 0 3 0.231 0.226 0.269 0.496
 Rafael Furcal 11 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0.182 0.250 0.182 0.432
 Wilson Betemit 5 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.400
 Marlon Anderson 23 3 1 0 0 1 1 6 0 1 0 0.130 0.160 0.174 0.334
 Ramón E. Martínez 13 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0.077 0.077 0.077 0.154
 Russell Martin 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
 Wilson Valdez 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000

I hope LuGo and Kent feel rejuvenated against a sure HOFer against whom they have been successful in the past. And is Maddux a guy the Dodgers' CF can get healthy facing - or at least collect a couple hits?

2007-06-06 15:33:13
283.   trainwreck
They have Kurt Suzuki as the heir apparent. They like how Kendall handles the pitchers and they like the guy, so they don't want to totally give up on him now.
2007-06-06 15:33:49
284.   D4P
I feel like 208 should be revisited.
2007-06-06 15:33:57
285.   Humma Kavula
281 You are entitled to that.

I would humbly suggest that if six hits with a double in 14 AB makes no lasting impression on you, then your standards might be too high. Just my opinion.

2007-06-06 15:34:42
286.   Eric Enders
266 "With what they know, they don't seem to be in a hurry to bring him up. There must be reasons."

So what you're saying is that some drastic change has occurred between last year, when they clearly were in a hurry to bring him up, and this year. What would that be?

278 "Maybe Kemp is not all that you envision him to be -- something they know but you don't?"

We don't -- and yet you do? Hmm.

Look, I'm not trying to pick on you. But the more you try to explain your position, the less and less sense it makes.

2007-06-06 15:37:06
287.   Bob Timmermann
The rightfield scoreboard at Dodger Stadium apparently has a lasting impression FROM Matt Kemp.
2007-06-06 15:37:14
288.   Hallux Valgus
281 There is nothing to discuss. Some people have opinions. Your opinion is to defer to the front office because you believe title implicity equals competence. If anyone expresses their opinion, your response is to say that they are not entitled to their opinion because they do not have the correct title.
2007-06-06 15:38:22
289.   Eric Enders
281 Sorry about that, I didn't mean to be insulting. The intended meaning was that, well, since Kemp has been by far the best hitter on the team this year -- his OPS+ is far better than second-place Russell Martin -- perhaps his actual performance should be given more credence than your impressions.
2007-06-06 15:38:47
290.   bluegold
285. It seems that it made no lasting impression on Dodgers management as well -- for whatever reason (like, were those key hits in key situations?) -- or else they would have had Kemp up here long ago.
2007-06-06 15:39:15
291.   delias man
Reading this thread is more painful than watching this punch-less lineup.
2007-06-06 15:39:47
292.   jasonungar07
bluegold, I value your opinion. I think there are 14 million dollars worth of reasons or at least 7 million..on why Kemp needs more time. Let's be honest.
2007-06-06 15:39:56
293.   bluegold
289. No problem. I just want to discuss. If I want the other stuff I talk to my wife.
2007-06-06 15:40:24
294.   silverwidow
278-Colletti is on record saying that Matt Kemp will have "not just a good career, a tremendous career."

Ned and his staff realize that's he's only 22, which is why he's still getting seasoning. But to suggest that there's some conspiracy theory as to why he's not up is simply wrong. I guarantee Kemp is the most untouchable hitter in the organization next to Martin.

2007-06-06 15:42:45
295.   CanuckDodger
From the time Billingsley was drafted in June 2003, I have followed his career literally game to game, something I doubt Will Carroll can say. Billingsley is in his fifth season as a pro, and has never had an arm injury. He never had an injury of any kind in the minors, and the oblique strain he had while with the Dodgers last year is, I believe, the ONLY injury of any kind he has had while Dodger property. So as far as that goes, Will Carroll, quite simply, is full of it.

But the "prima donna" crack might have some truth to it. I have heard it before. About a year and a half ago, around December 2005, a poster I consider reliable on another board said a nephew of his who works in journalism was able to arrange for him to have a phone conversation with a Basball America writer whom he would not identify, since the guy wasn't exactly talking on the record. The poster just wanted to ask some questions about Dodger prospects and maybe hear some things that don't make it into BA's magazine or website. Anyway, the writer had some very surprising things to say about Billingsley, saying he rubs a lot of people, a lot of teammates, the wrong way because he is pretty arrogant. He also said the Dodgers considered him, because of his arrogance, somewhat "uncoachable," and for that reason the Dodgers thought more highly of Scott Elbert. He likened Billingsley to the Blue Jays' Dave Stieb, a talented pitcher who couldn't get along with anybody.

Is there truth to the above? I have been somewhat skeptical, since that was the only time I ever heard anything like it. Baseball America's WRITING certainly never hinted at any kind of attitude problem on Billingsley's part, and since Billingsley has been in the majors we have heard nothing about him being uncoachable or being unpopular with teammates. As we know from the case of Joel Guzman, the Ddogers are also pretty intolerant of prospects who show bad make-up, so if they really thought Billingsley had a personality problem they probably would have traded him long ago. But being called a "prima donna" by Will Carroll probably does amount to hearing a second source confirm, sort of, what the other guy was saying. But since Carroll got Billingsley's injury history wrong, how reliable is he really?

2007-06-06 15:42:57
296.   bluegold
292. It's easy for me to say, go buy a proven bat -- because it is not my 14 million.

And for that reason, I say again: Go get that frickin' proven bat! I'm tired of watching this pathetic offense.

2007-06-06 15:44:33
297.   Eric Enders
294 True, Colletti is always saying stuff like that, but I wonder sometimes how much he means it. He'd be saying that stuff about Kemp whether he believed it or not. He was saying the same stuff about Joel Guzman last year. It's the same sort of stuff he says about Juan Pierre. It's just the kind of stuff you say publicly about the players in your organization.

I don't think we can draw too many inferences from what Colletti says to the media. Every GM is less than forthcoming in his public statements about his players. We should draw our conclusions from what Ned does rather than what he says.

2007-06-06 15:44:36
298.   Humma Kavula
294 There is no conspiracy. I don't know if the facts support this, but it seems to me that once the decision was made to sign both Gonzalez and Ethier, the question was which prospect, Ethier or Kemp, would go to AAA. When Kemp was injured, the decision was made. It is my opinion that inertia has taken over the front office for the time being and until a hand is forced, Kemp will continue to bat every day in the minors.
2007-06-06 15:44:45
299.   underdog
291 Beats reading last night's thread, which was mopier.
2007-06-06 15:45:41
300.   bhsportsguy
Another interesting article in the Baseball Prospectus premium content section, this time on our manager, Grady Little.

I thought this insight from one of the newest Dodgers was very interesting.

And while I tend to not get into the JP discussion that much here, maybe this explains why Juan always looks like someone sent him to bed without dessert after another poor at bat.

"Schmidt had played for Little while coming up through the Atlanta Braves' farm system. "He tells it like it is, and I think every player, deep down, appreciates that," Schmidt said.

"He'll tell you when you've done good things, but he'll also lay it on the line when things are bad. Maybe you don't want to hear the bad, and you'll go in the corner and cry about it for a day, but you also realize and appreciate that you're being dealt with honestly. And the record shows he's a winner."

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-06-06 15:45:53
301.   still bevens
295 Thats pretty funny. Not to sound mean, but Billingsley comes off as pretty dense in some of his pregame interviews so its hard to see him as some sort of lone gun operator type who's in it for himself.
2007-06-06 15:48:18
302.   bluegold
294. I'm not saying there is any conspiracy against Kemp. I'm saying the Dodgers mgmt knows Kemp better than you or I. Maybe they truly do not believe Kemp, at this time, does not make the club better.
2007-06-06 15:48:19
303.   Hallux Valgus
296 Then what if Colleti brings up Kemp to augment the offense? Do you stick with the "Ned knows best" mindset, or do you disagree with the move because he is not a proven bat?

If it is the former, then that's no real opinion at all.

If it is the latter, then you're previous argument that the front office should be trusted because they know the club better disappears.

2007-06-06 15:48:22
304.   underdog
295 Well put. And maybe there were once questions of maturity - doubt it was character - but maybe he was frustrated and arrogant, as a lot of very young players who were once the stars of wherever they came from, who are feeling like they're not on a fast enough track. I'm just theorizing here. But I've seen no evidence of this at all from Billingsley over the past year+ and that's what counts to me. Basically, I think Will Carroll is a little off.
2007-06-06 15:49:29
305.   Humma Kavula
296 Let's go to the world of make-believe. Poof! You now own the Dodgers, and you're sick of the offense.

By happenstance, you are also the GM. You need to orchestrate a trade for a "proven bat" because you're not sold on Matt Kemp. What position is replaceable? What veteran do you seek out? What do you offer the other team in compensation for the player you want?

Come on, let's pretend.

2007-06-06 15:50:24
306.   Eric Enders
295 "the writer had some very surprising things to say about Billingsley, saying he rubs a lot of people, a lot of teammates, the wrong way because he is pretty arrogant. He also said the Dodgers considered him, because of his arrogance, somewhat "uncoachable,""

I've interviewed Billingsley, and while judging anybody on the basis of one interview is admittedly shaky, I have to say that my impression of him was exactly the opposite.

2007-06-06 15:51:19
307.   jasonungar07
I still belive if James Loney was our starting first baseman/3 hitter with 11 extra base hits he wouldnt be playing. If Matt Kemp were playing CF and had 18 steals with no homeruns, shaky defense and a .298 OBP he wouldn't be playing. It's not really any conspiracy, it's just the way it goes when you are young.
2007-06-06 15:52:18
308.   bhsportsguy
295 I seem to recall an article on about Chad's childhood, his father's illness, etc, and how Logan White was quoted about Chad's character being a reason why they drafted him.

And there is a fine line between being labeled as arrogant or primadonna versus being considered an ultimate competitor or someone who hates losing.

All that being said, I think if this was a big issue, we would have heard more about this in some public forum before today.

2007-06-06 15:53:07
309.   jasonungar07
Blue, sorry, what I was getting at was we have Pierre and Gonzo. (or 14 million in 2007 salary)
2007-06-06 15:55:02
310.   trainwreck
I just keep dreaming of our offense with Kemp in center and Nomar in 1st. It would solve so many problems.
2007-06-06 15:55:31
311.   Jon Weisman
Folks, I think this particular debate over Kemp has run its course today. Just a suggestion.
2007-06-06 15:55:48
312.   Humma Kavula
307 And I'm not sure that's wrong. Does anybody here think that Jeff Kent should be benched right now?

I do believe that you earn a certain amount of deference when you're a veteran. You've earned the right to work your way out of a slump, even a two-month slump.

The question is exactly how much deference such a player should get. Has Nomar worn out his welcome? Some would definitely say yes; I personally think a little while longer is in order.

I'll not discuss the elephant in the room.

2007-06-06 15:55:56
313.   trainwreck
I mean Loney at 1st.
2007-06-06 15:57:16
314.   trainwreck
Kent's defensive issues, I think need to be addressed.
2007-06-06 15:57:31
315.   bhsportsguy
307 See Wilson Betemit, though he was pretty awful in April and Tony Abreu is getting some hits in the 8 hole.

We'll never know how the outfield would have played out if Kemp doesn't bang into the wall but the fact that he made the opening roster should be evidence that the club does consider him as a top prospect and the only thing keeping Matt in Sin City is playing time up here. If something happens that makes him a everyday player, he will be here. And I think he is the most likely next outfielder for the Dodgers.

2007-06-06 15:57:36
316.   trainwreck
Possibly move him to first or trade him.
2007-06-06 15:57:39
317.   bluegold
305. Colletti is paid to make these kind of decisions, not me. If he truly wants the Dodgers to go to the world series, he knows he cannot do it with this offense. And he knows Kemp is not going to be the difference maker or else he would have brought him up by now.
2007-06-06 16:00:52
318.   bhsportsguy
312 They sold out Carne Asada Night in one day and he's the current face (if you believe the billboards and bus placards in Southern California).

So while that isn't everything, but considering his history with Grady, his relationship with the fans and his so far lack of injury, Nomar will not be doing anything but playing first this year for the Dodgers.

2007-06-06 16:02:06
319.   bhsportsguy
314 That's the backup plan.
2007-06-06 16:03:14
320.   Humma Kavula
316 Serious question: would the team be improved by just shifting the three infielders (leaving out Furcal) clockwise around the diamond?

Nomar to 3B
Abreu to 2B
Kent to 1B

Obviously, the offense is exactly the same... is the defense better?

2007-06-06 16:04:35
321.   jasonungar07
new post up top..yeah I can't stand myself for beating this deadhorse either. I went so far to mail Ken Gurnick this morning and here is his response...and i'll just wait for a new post up top and shut the heck up.

"pierre especially and nomar to a lesser extent have done what was expected, but i'm not convinced kemp and loney would be a significant upgrade. can't imagine management pulling the plug on either right now.."

2007-06-06 16:05:06
322.   trainwreck
No, I do not think it helps. Nomar can't play third. I don't know if Kent is better than Nomar at first. Abreu definitely is better at second. So it seems like it would not do much help.
2007-06-06 16:06:16
323.   Humma Kavula
Why can't Nomar play third?
2007-06-06 16:06:19
324.   trainwreck
Kent is getting a free pass it seems, just because he hits homeruns, but he is a problem too.
2007-06-06 16:06:59
325.   trainwreck
He can't move that well anymore. I do not think he would react quick enough.
2007-06-06 16:09:28
326.   silverwidow
317-Or maybe he knows that Kemp playing everyday in the minors is better for his development than platooning with Ethier (who is much older and doesn't need the seasoning as much).
2007-06-06 16:09:51
327.   Humma Kavula
Others know more about this than I do, but I recall many posters here suggesting that signing Nomar to his deal would be OK if he plays 3B, not so much if he plays 1B. That implies that some folks think that he can still move well enough to play the position.

Have you seen something this season that makes you think otherwise?

I mean this sincerely. Everything I've heard is that "he has to play first because he's fragile," and we've had that discussion.... I don't recall too many others saying that he has to play first because it's the only position on the infield he can handle.

Again, you probably know more about it than I do.

2007-06-06 16:09:59
328.   regfairfield
318 AKA the Raul Ibanez argument. We said this guy is the face of the franchise, so there's no way we could trade him.
2007-06-06 16:11:39
329.   regfairfield
324 Did you think he was a problem when he had a .900 OPS last Saturday? Kent's just in a very noticeable slump right now. He should bounce back a bit. Hopefully, the same could be said about his defense as well.
2007-06-06 16:13:08
330.   trainwreck
Yes. I hate having bad defensive players and when Jon showed that stat that Kent may be the worse in the league, then I started to think he is not worth the trouble. Plus, Ned will probably keep him around another year.
2007-06-06 16:15:09
331.   regfairfield
330 Fair enough. I agree that if Kent's defensive value stays this low we need to do something about it, but Kent has never been anywhere near this bad in his career. Maybe it is age, but I have to believe he'll bounce back at some point.
2007-06-06 16:15:14
332.   trainwreck
I was clamoring for us to trade away all our vets last year even when they were performing well.
2007-06-06 16:16:27
333.   underdog
Per Josh at ItD, the line up looks the same tonight save for pitcher. He also wrote this: "And as for Rudy Seanez, since April 19 (including last night) he has a 1.99 ERA (5 ER/22.2 IP), the second best mark among all Dodger relievers not named Takashi Saito (that includes Broxton and Billingsley). He has, in fact, allowed the most inherited runners to score (6) but he's also inherited more than all but two other relievers, so it's not exactly fair to only cite the number of runners scored. For example, Billingsley has only allowed four inherited runners to score but he's only inherited six of them (67 percent). As long as we're talking inherited runners, Joe Beimel has been unreal in that area. Only 2 of his 21 runners have scored (9.5 percent), the seventh-best mark in the league. He's also now appeared in 30 games, more than any other lefty in the big leagues besides Tyler Johnson."
2007-06-06 16:21:21
334.   Bob Timmermann
That's very Branch Rickey-esque of you.
2007-06-06 16:33:15
335.   Jon Weisman
By the way, I'll be away from my computer most of Thursday, so we'll mainly have an open chat thread here where you can talk about the draft at will.
2007-06-06 16:36:21
336.   Jon Weisman
From Diamond Leung:

When Matt Kemp's luggage was lost last week, he couldn't play because his contact lenses were inside. Not the colored lenses from spring training that he ditched after a few tries. So it was more about literally seeing the ball this time around.

On last month's batting-practice scuffle between Kemp and Delwyn Young: "As quickly as it happened, it disappeared. Those two are hooked at the hip."

On Mitch Jones and his 19 home runs: "They've been bombs. There hasn't been a cheapie."

2007-06-06 16:38:33
337.   Bluebleeder87

both of your takes sound more reasonable so i'll go with what you guys said. Ethier & Penny had a little of that last year & i never questioned it for the reasons stated by both of you.

2007-06-06 16:46:32
338.   trainwreck
Looks like Koyie Hill has a new job as Carlos Zambrano's personal catcher.
2007-06-06 16:48:10
339.   Doctor
By the way- Delwyn Young is quietly putting up a pretty solid season in Vegas. He isn't all that old, I know he isn't seen as a very high ceiling prospect, but he might be as good as Ethier at this point.
2007-06-06 16:52:34
340.   Eric Enders
I would be wary of replacing Ethier with Young, given that Ethier is our only good defensive outfielder right now. Imagine an outfield of Gonzo-Player-Young? Yikes.

I see Young as our Olmedo Saenz of the future.

2007-06-06 16:53:58
341.   Doctor

Young's D is bad news?

2007-06-06 16:58:20
342.   Eric Enders
Young's D has been bad news since he was in Little League, probably. I haven't heard any indications that his defense has become good this year.

He always struck me as the kind of guy who would be a good enough hitter to hold an everyday job, if he could defend. Since he can't, his ceiling is probably Professional Hitter.

2007-06-06 17:01:06
343.   Doctor
I see. Looked like he didnt do very well as a 2B, but that doesnt mean he couldn't be a decent corner OF... Maybe neither is the best option. Just looked to me about like an Ethier, but with more power.
2007-06-06 17:01:45
344.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-06-06 17:03:45
345.   underdog
Wasn't he formerly a second baseman converted to the OF? I assume the main reason was his defense, but it also looks like he's improved as an outfielder over the past year...

I thought he had a good arm at least...
I see him projecting as a good 4th OFer, not convinced about him as a starter yet, but I do like him. I wish they had minor league fielding stats on the milb sites.

2007-06-06 17:05:07
346.   Doctor
baseballcube has them
2007-06-06 17:07:43
347.   underdog
Ah, thanks Doc. But only up thru 2005 for his fielding stats for some reason. Definitely a better outfielder than an infielder!
2007-06-06 17:14:52
348.   ToyCannon
Eric do you know that D Young is a bad outfielder? I know he couldn't handle 2nd because of his foot work and bad hands but as a corner outfielder those aren't very important. His arm and routes are what interest me. I get the feeling your painting him as a bad defensive player based on his shortcomings as an infielder.
2007-06-06 17:20:33
349.   Doctor
I can't picture Ethier playing the infield, thats for sure.

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