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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Kuo Didn't Mean It
2007-06-13 10:50
by Jon Weisman

The idea that Hong-Chih Kuo was consciously showing up the Mets in any way with his post-homer bat-toss is preposterous. It was all in one motion, and I'm sure Kuo was as shocked as anyone that he hit the ball so well. If Mets pitcher John Maine had done the same thing and tossed his bat, I wouldn't have thought twice about it.

I can't believe some of the reaction I'm seeing out of New York. And I thought I was sensitive ...

* * *

Great stop-the-presses post from Sons of Steve Garvey today:

When Jonathan Broxton briefly assumed the Dodgers' closer role earlier this season, he was such an enormous bust that even Dolly Parton was jealous. But bringing Saito back meant more than just save-situation stability - it meant Broxton could continue his quest to become the All-Time Single-Season Holds King.

After notching his 16th hold last night against the Mets, Broxton is not only leading the lead in the ultimate Glamour-Stat, but he's also on pace to break Tom Gordon's mythical 36-hold season - a record that has been matched only once since it was set in 2004. By comparison, Babe Ruth (also known as 'The Tom Gordon of Home Runs') has seen his 60-home run season surpassed seven times by three players* since it was set.

So if you're looking for a meaningful pursuit of history this season, look no further. … Immortality awaits.

Comments (309)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-06-13 10:55:46
1.   dkminnick
It was the very fact that it was inadvertant (like the home run) that made it so funny.
2007-06-13 10:57:08
2.   Joshua Worley
Darn tootin!

I wonder, if the Mets did feel the need to retaliate, who would they go after? Will they wait for Kuo to pitch against them again, or will they go after Russ Martin or something? These clubs play eight more times this year including tonight. I hope this thing doesn't get out of control. It's clearly so innocent.

2007-06-13 10:57:20
3.   Xeifrank
Seems like it's the Mets media making a big deal out of this, not the Mets players. Perhaps they are trying to get the Mets fired up. The Mets media is calling the kettle black on this one (or however that saying goes). vr, Xei
2007-06-13 10:57:56
4.   CajunDodger
He was channeling the GS from Steve Finley in 04. The motions looked identical.
2007-06-13 10:59:29
5.   regfairfield
If you show any sort of emotion on the baseball field, you might as well just take a leak on Babe Ruth's grave.
2007-06-13 10:59:36
6.   Jon Weisman
4 - Didn't Finley extend his arms skyward after he tossed the bat?
2007-06-13 11:00:11
7.   bryanf
Isn't Guillermo Mota back now? Maybe he'll throw one at Russell Martin's head and then take off running for the bullpen...
2007-06-13 11:00:36
8.   Xeifrank
You don't really hit the mammoth HR that Guo hit without at some point being a pretty good hitter. I wonder how good of a hitter he was before signing with the Dodgers and playing in leagues that had a DH? Many of the best US high school baseball players are both the best pitcher and hitter on the team.
vr, Xei
2007-06-13 11:01:28
9.   CajunDodger
True. I just remember the act of throwing the bat seemed the same. Done out of disbelief and joy rather than showing up a Giants pitcher.
2007-06-13 11:02:33
10.   Jon Weisman
ToyCannon, since we disagreed on Furcal this morning, let's come together and feel more vindicated about Betemit.
2007-06-13 11:03:43
11.   CajunDodger
A buddy of mine is on the grounds crew, and he said that the best pure distance power hitter on the team is Broxton. He told me that he once hit one on top of the roof over the bleachers in left and out into the parking lot.

He estimated something like 500-520 feet.

2007-06-13 11:04:01
12.   The Saul
I think cooler heads are prevailing in NY Media.

2007-06-13 11:04:39
13.   Bluebleeder87

yeah, it was more of a hallelujah thing with Finley.

2007-06-13 11:05:52
14.   Joshua Worley
10 ---

I hope Betemit gets some more starts. The third base situation always seems to be so "what have you done for me lately", and if they follow that then Betemit should be in there over the slumping Abreu.

2007-06-13 11:06:15
15.   bigcpa
For Marty, Suffering Bruin, Jim Hitchock, Vishal and anyone I missed from the 7/05 Adam Dunn Scouting trip. I just found this in the game recap:

Olmedo Saenz hooked a shot around the left field pole and into Dodger Stadium's second deck for his 10th homer. He is the 15th player in the ballpark's 44-year history to reach the loge level.

2007-06-13 11:06:26
16.   Bluebleeder87
Ya know what else? I think part of it may have been that he was as shocked as anybody. Most players give some version of the "it's part of the game" or "I'm looking forward to helping my new team" speech. Lo Duca didn't really do that:

From last thread. If i remember correctly Lo Duca seemed like he wanted to cry in one of the interviews i saw. i don't know i just always liked the guy, feel good story & all.

2007-06-13 11:06:34
17.   berkowit28
21 last thread (roster) -

From Gurnick's Notes yesterday: "Chin-hui Tsao threw lightly in the outfield Monday and was pleased to report the discomfort in his shoulder was gone." Should be seeing him soon...

2007-06-13 11:10:09
18.   Xeifrank
11. wow. I've always thought that NL teams could gain an advantage by having their starting pitchers practice hitting more. I guess that is offset by the chance that they could get hurt easier or get their dress dirty. vr, Xei
2007-06-13 11:10:23
19.   Branch Rickey
I didn't see it as being like Finley. Finley did something I've never seen which is that he dropped the bat like it was hot. I thought I remembered it almost dropping straight down instead of a toss. I also liked Nomar on the 4+1 HR where he pumped his fists with the bat still in his hand.
2007-06-13 11:11:19
20.   Marty
15 Wow, I cannot remember that Saenz homerun. I think I was dizzy watching Freel race around the bases.
2007-06-13 11:11:30
21.   CharlieBrown
Baseball culture seems much more tetchy about its "honor" than other sports.

Remember when Paul LoDuca flipped out in 2003 because (then Indian) Milton Bradley un-velcroed his batting glove after going deep?

2007-06-13 11:11:56
22.   Jon Weisman
Attendance for Dodger Thoughts Day July 21 appears to be at 24 as of this morning. Still looking for more signups.
2007-06-13 11:16:25
23.   still bevens
22 I would be on board if it weren't for those pesky French robots known as Daft Punk, who are playing at the world famous LA Sports Arena.
2007-06-13 11:18:12
24.   bluegold
By Mets standards, maybe Kuo should have apologized and begged forgiveness instead of flipping the bat.
2007-06-13 11:18:33
25.   Marty
If there's any brush back shenanigans tonight, it may be a full-on war by the time the Mets come back for DT day. Maybe the thought of that will spur attendance.
2007-06-13 11:20:40
26.   Bob Timmermann
"We came for blood!"

--- Hans Moleman

2007-06-13 11:21:26
27.   Hallux Valgus
The idea that Kuo was showing up the Mets is absurd. These are grown men who get paid obscene amounts of money to throw a ball and then hit it with a stick. Your job is not that serious. Relax. I guess that's why all the animosity is coming from the press corps.
2007-06-13 11:24:11
28.   LogikReader

Absolutely. I didn't think people would read more into it than was actually there.

Incidentally, I had a pair of Pref. Loge Seats for an upcoming game, where could I go to offer them to DT'ers?

2007-06-13 11:26:26
29.   Marty
In 2002 Loduca hit:
April .295 .347 .432
May .320 .389 .402
June .337 .376 .500
July .275 .321 .422
August .180 .200 .240
Sept .287 .345 .426

In 2003 Loduca hit:
April .266 .337 .383
May .388 .441 .518
June .309 .362 .474
July .233 .319 .340
August .240 .288 .298
Sept .210 .278 .259

In 2004 For the Dodgers only Loduca hit:
April .416 .447 .545
May .327 .377 .367
June .222 .255 .378
July .250 .330 .512

I think that pretty much confirms that he had big drop-offs in the second half of the season, though Sept. 2002 was not bad.

2007-06-13 11:27:31
30.   ToyCannon
Players with OPS GE 800 who have the largest difference between BA and OB. Name,BA,OBP,Slug,OPS,Diff
Betemit, Wilson 212,361,444,805,149
Griffey Jr.,Ken,284,389,549,938,105
2007-06-13 11:28:42
31.   RZG
The only whining was by Randolph who's a "sensitive" type. The other NY media is taking the approach of "if you don't want him to flip the bat then don't let a pitcher hit a homer off of you."
2007-06-13 11:29:03
32.   Nagman
Kuo's bat flip was very Klesko-esque. I think Klesko has done that exact flip after every homerun but I can't remember because it hardly happens anymore.
2007-06-13 11:29:35
33.   BandwagonLa
I can't find any of the negative reaction from NY about Kuo's flip. Where can I find this? I'm curious about what they're saying.
2007-06-13 11:30:19
34.   Bumsrap
I don't think Abreu is in a slump. I am defining a slump more as not being able to get hits and the player has to look at film to see if he is doing something differently when he was hitting from what he is doing now. Abreu doesn't need to look at film.

The pitchers have learned that they do not have to throw Abreu strikes and so are not throwing him strikes. If they were to throw him strikes he would hit them and that is the reason I don't think he is slumping. If he were instructed to not swing at the first 5 pitches pitched to him he would walk his way back to hitting.

2007-06-13 11:31:59
35.   Xeifrank
33. the worst comes from Ron Darling the color commentator, who said that on Guo's next at bat, Maine should brush him back.
vr, Xei
2007-06-13 11:33:39
36.   GobiasIndustries

I remember that interview too. He was standing in the tunnel about to leave Dodgers Stadium and was more than visibly upset. He looked as though he had been crying and just seemed to be in a daze. I was a big LoDuca fan, but now I really couldn't care less about him. Although I was at his first game back at Dodgers Stadium like a week later against the Marlins and when he stepped into the batters box, I got choked up when he got that outstanding and very long ovation. I don't know how anyone couldn't have been emotional that night when he returned, unless of course you never liked the guy anyway. I find it hard to believe that there were many LoDuca haters at the time of the trade.

2007-06-13 11:34:30
37.   ToyCannon
Who knew hitting in the bigs was so simple.
2007-06-13 11:34:51
38.   Bumsrap
Kuo had that bat toss in him and I am guessing he used to toss his bat like that when hitting homeruns as a younger player.
2007-06-13 11:39:17
39.   bhsportsguy
BTW ToyCannon, you were the first person I thought of when I saw the guy with Matt Kemp's home run ball, I thought, oh that's right TC isn't at tonight's game.

At the game and not having access to the replay, I did not hear about the flip until they talked about it on the radio and did not see it until I watched the replay last night.

2007-06-13 11:39:47
40.   GobiasIndustries
In my opinion Kuo flipping the bat was awesome. I was laughing so hard and then had the task of trying to explain to my wife just why it was so funny. There was clearly no ill intention behind it and anyone who doesn't see that doesn't understand the game, or if they do, not very well.
2007-06-13 11:39:57
41.   driches
sorry if this has been addressed, but is this the first time there's been a back-to-back-to-back, culminating in a pitcher? i know there have been a couple that involved a pitcher...
2007-06-13 11:40:03
42.   bryanf
Lets face it...Encarnacion was the center of that deal anyway. Lo Duca was a throw in. So was Penny. It was basically Encarnacion for Choi, right?

Am I setting up my reputation too much for sarcasm? Hopefully I don't get too close to breaking Rule #7.

2007-06-13 11:40:14
43.   Bumsrap
35 - Watching the Mets feed Monday I had to walk away from Darling's ranting about how it was in his day. He just wouldn't stop, on and on and on and on.
2007-06-13 11:42:35
44.   Jon Weisman
31 - Check the Daily News.

"As if Kuo's mammoth blast wasn't enough, he admired it a la Manny Ramirez on his way to first base."

2007-06-13 11:43:30
45.   Bob Timmermann
I've always thought that the reaction to Lo Duca here was in part a reaction to the OVER-reaction by the L.A. media, especially Plaschke.

A lot of people thought, "Hmmm, trading your starting catcher at this late stage in the season....?"

And then when the media, mainly in the form of Plaschke, attributed seemingly everything that went wrong with the Dodgers in the 2004 playoffs and 2005 with the departures of Lo Duca and Mota, people took a revisionist view of Lo Duca.

It was almost as if Paul Lo Duca's career no longer existed as a real construct, but instead became an abstract concept to rail against, especially in the aftermath of the dismal 2005 season.

The topic of Lo Duca turned into something of a litmus test here at DT. Except that when the topic comes up, everybody is sour because of 2005.

2007-06-13 11:43:57
46.   Jon Weisman
35 - Some of the commenters on Metsblog also were taking Kuo's toss personally.
2007-06-13 11:46:02
47.   ToyCannon
Dodgers signed 3rd and 4th round picks for 250,000 and 160,000. Focus in on Blair and put the parking lot money to good use.

How about Carlos Pena who would certainly be loved in NY right now if they hadn't just let him go last year.
From Rotowire:
"Pena is currently enjoying a career year at the age of 29, and right now, El Presidente is the hottest hitter in all of baseball. Pena currently leads all major league first basemen in slugging (.656) and OPS (1.055). Over the last 30 days, Pena has hit nine homers and nine doubles, driven in 21 runs, and leads all major league hitters in OPS at 1.274. He's not likely to turn into Albert Pujols at this stage of his career, but this isn't bad for someone the Rays signed as a spring NRI over the winter."
He beat out Hee Sop Choi this spring for the backup 1st job and has now run with it.

2007-06-13 11:46:32
48.   ToyCannon
Spot on
2007-06-13 11:48:38
49.   bryanf
41 According to InsideTheDodgers blog:

"It's the first time in Dodger franchise history that they've hit three homers consecutively that included the pitcher and only the seventh time that's ever happened in the Majors."

2007-06-13 11:49:01
50.   Xeifrank
46. actually, pretty much all of them were taking Guo's side and making fun of the Mets. But you can find the comments from Darling and the newspaper article you directly linked to there, along with the discussion. vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-06-13 11:50:15
51.   Xeifrank
What was the distance on Guo's HR?
vr, Xei
2007-06-13 11:50:39
52.   blue22
43 - Ron Darling was so tedious to listen to on Monday. Every play or incident was somehow tied back to him and his playing days.

It's like listening to Danny Bonnaduce on the Adam Carrolla show. Every guest, feature, interview, and anecdote is an excuse for him to talk about something that happened in his life.

2007-06-13 11:52:43
53.   Bob Timmermann
Darling is better than Keith Hernandez. Did you know that Keith Hernandez was a very good player? He will be sure to remind you.

Gary Cohen definitely knows his Mets history.

2007-06-13 11:53:35
54.   bryanf
51 I believe I read it was 412...4 feet more than Betemit's.
2007-06-13 11:53:58
55.   Marty
51 I think they said 407. He crushed it.
2007-06-13 11:54:52
56.   Marty
I may be confusing the length with Betemit's home run.
2007-06-13 11:54:52
57.   GobiasIndustries

Nice game pretty boy.

2007-06-13 11:55:16
58.   Branch Rickey
52. Adam Carolla is the funniest person I know of and there is probably no person I agree with more often (only exception is that he seems to hate baseball). Danny Bonnaduce is the Kevin Kennedy of morning radio.
2007-06-13 11:55:30
59.   skybluestoday

I love the LA Sports Arena, even though it's a little crummy and run-down.

I saw the Grateful Dead there 7 times when I was in graduate school at USC -- always in December, and I just had to walk over from my (slightly) off-campus apartment.

Good memories!

2007-06-13 11:57:05
60.   Bob Timmermann
You need to meet more people...
2007-06-13 11:57:54
61.   Jon Weisman
If I'm reading the epayments correctly, we're up to 29 for July 21!
2007-06-13 11:58:25
62.   blue22
I thought they said Betemit's was farther, though it certainly didn't look it.
2007-06-13 12:02:41
63.   Branch Rickey
60. Is that a come on?
2007-06-13 12:02:47
64.   bhsportsguy
61 Nothing like back to back to back to drive those sales.
2007-06-13 12:04:13
65.   bhsportsguy
Wow - The AL is playing at a .580 clip against the NL this year.
2007-06-13 12:04:37
66.   blue22
58 - I'll agree with you. I've listened to him since the early days of Loveline with Rikki Rachtman (sp?), when Adam was just the "funny guy", not the host.

Did you see his show on TLC last year about him remodeling his childhood home? It was pretty entertaining.

2007-06-13 12:04:54
67.   Bob Timmermann
I love the LA Sports Arena, even though it's a little crummy and run-down.

That's a bit of an understatement. I'm not certain why that facility still exists.

2007-06-13 12:05:15
68.   MC Safety
kuo's bat toss is very similar to prince fielder's bat toss.
2007-06-13 12:07:02
69.   Bob Timmermann
I was checking the cup of tea I had.

Adam Carrolla was not part of it.

2007-06-13 12:08:02
70.   blue22
68 - Doesn't Prince do a little bit more of a Fred McGriff-style curly-cue in the air? Or does he actually toss it?
2007-06-13 12:09:25
71.   Doctor
Kuo may not have intended to show up the Mets, but what he did was annoying to the Mets fans and I don't blame them. I know a lot people hate the talk of "unwritten rules" but I believe tradition and etiquette are actually the best part of Baseball. The younger generation of players may, in the end, change this- but for now there are enough old school players and fans around who will care about little things like that. Don Drysdale would hit betters for taking too long to get into the box or looking at him funny- so things have changed already. But I love a game where everyone has to stand in the box at some point and will pay a price for showing up the other team (intended or not). If not for this imagine the "touchdown" dances we would have to see every time a guy hit a long HR. (If TO played baseball he wouldn't be signing the bat and giving it to the pitcher after a HR etc….) Personally, that garbage is annoying to me and I like to see some accountability for not acting professionally. Kuo may or may not have intended to look cocky- but hey, rookie, that's something you need to learn. And Im ok with it. Please, lets not dilute one of the most traditional aspects of the game- show some respect to the other team or you will pay the price… some day.
2007-06-13 12:10:27
72.   Jon Weisman
2007-06-13 12:11:38
73.   Jon Weisman
71 - I just think that if he didn't intend to disrespect them, then it's fine to say "don't do that again," but discussion that there should be a beaning like Darling said is over-the-top.
2007-06-13 12:11:55
74.   Bluebleeder87

i guess he's still smoking cause his voice seems to be getting worse & worse.

2007-06-13 12:12:01
75.   Branch Rickey
66. Yes, TLC show was entertaining. Anything that he does off the cuff is entertaning. Anything scripted and he's not nearly as funny. But anyone who can make me listen to teenagers whine about "love" problems has got to be good.

69. We'll have to agree to disagree. Or we could engage in Ultimate Fighting but it's hard to find a good cage.

2007-06-13 12:14:36
76.   underdog
From what I've heard about Kuo, he's a really nice guy and his teammates like him. He doesn't seem arrogant at all. I'm sorry Doc, but to me he was clearly more stunned by what he'd just done than he was trying to show up anyone. I know it could be interpreted that way but if you see how quickly he realized that and then took off quickly, it seems clear he was more stunned than he was being cocky. As that NY journalist/blogger said (linked from above), Paul LoDuca did the same thing last week so he'd be a hypocrite for being mad. So, yeah, Kuo should have quickly ran, but I think he literally didn't know what to do with himself after it had happened. Calling it garbage is really unfair.
2007-06-13 12:14:54
77.   Hythloday
Actually if someone signed their bat and handed it to the pitcher that might qualify as they greatest thing I'd ever seen.
2007-06-13 12:14:56
78.   Bob Timmermann
I've built an octagon in my living room.
2007-06-13 12:15:48
79.   underdog
On the funny chart, I feel safe saying:

Adam Corolla > Carrot Top
Patton Oswalt > Adam Corolla

2007-06-13 12:18:16
80.   Hythloday
79 - Does this mean that:

Adam Corolla > Gallagher

because I'm not sure you want to go there.

2007-06-13 12:18:41
81.   Doctor

What I called garbage the lack of respect that athletes show each other in other venues, not what Kuo did.

2007-06-13 12:19:31
82.   Eric Enders
Although 71 is a valid opinion to hold, I disagree with it in pretty much every way, shape and form. I won't go into it at length, but I can't resist pointing out the irony that old-school pitchers react to players who don't "act professionally" by throwing a deadly projectile at their skull. Professional, indeed.
2007-06-13 12:22:58
83.   blue22
79 - Carrot Top. Ugh. I was just in Vegas, and couldn't get away from this horrifying image that is plastered all over the Strip.

2007-06-13 12:23:39
84.   underdog
81 Ah, sorry, I thought because you were talking about Kuo above you were referring to him there, too. Guess I misunderstood.

80 Glenn Gallagher or the watermelon smashing comedian? Either way, yes, I suppose.

2007-06-13 12:24:10
85.   underdog
83 I refuse to even look at that link, because I'm about to eat lunch...
2007-06-13 12:24:23
86.   gpellamjr
I'm a little confused by the intense reaction. Isn't that bat flip on balls in play very common among oriental ball players? I remember in the WBC the announcers making a big deal of it every time the Korean players would toss their bats on balls in play, as if the players thought that they had hit it out, but I think it's just something that people do on balls in play in the orient.
2007-06-13 12:24:33
87.   Bluebleeder87
Adam Corolla has his good days but for my taste i think Frosty, Heidi & Frank do a much better job. Kevin & Bean do a much better job then Adam i feel. He does a great job on love line though.
2007-06-13 12:24:57
88.   El Lay Dave
If only there was a picture.

Before the game [Monday], [Saito] wore the [samurai] costume around the clubhouse for about a half an hour while brandishing the swords. The Dodgers then went out and beat the Mets.
(second half of article)

2007-06-13 12:25:48
89.   Doctor

Thats baseball.

2007-06-13 12:28:13
90.   Eric Enders
As for the why-we-hate-Lo Duca discussion, here's why I find him annoying even though he was my favorite Dodger for a while.

1) He's definitely one of those guys who you love when he's on your side and hate when he's not. Some guys are just like that.

2) Over his career he's progressively become more of a self-righteous whiner. It's like he took his own press clippings about being a "gamer" to heart, and then started self-consciously acting in the way a gamer should. He goes overboard with it a lot. His hustle and enthusiasm, which once seemed genuine, now seems calculated for effect.

3) Those three little words during last year's playoffs: "(Rule 1 Violation) the Dodgers."

4) The Plaschke-led media love-in. Now, that's not Lo Duca's fault, but I think there's a natural tendency in most of us to balance things out -- to embrace the players who are unfairly hated by the media, like Choi, and to deride those who are overly loved by the media, like Jeter. Obviously Lo Duca falls into the latter category.

5) When he started seducing teenagers, that didn't exactly make him easier to like.

2007-06-13 12:28:38
91.   Greg Brock
I'm outraged over the outrage here at the Mets outrage.

Seriously, he made a mistake. Silly, yes. Heinous, no. But the kid hit a bomb, got a little excited, and pimped it out of the box. And he's a pitcher.

Somebody taking a fastball in the rear is not a big deal. Mets save face, Dodgers get a baserunner, and life goes on.

2007-06-13 12:33:02
92.   ToyCannon
I've always thought that baseball has done a nice balancing act between the "garbage" you mention in other sports and still displaying enough emotion to make it look like they enjoy what is happening. I used to think Lima was a total jerk until I saw his act everyday and realized he just loved the game and the fans. From Reggie Jackson admiring his shots to Bob Welch and his reaction to fanning Reggie in the world series are all things we remember. If we took the emotion of the moment away and everyone acted like Kent/Drew I'm sure I wouldn't be as involved with Baseball as I am.

Pitching inside to protect the plate an head hunting are to different things. I never much liked Drysdale for his head hunting ways. The major league pitcher is a weapon, just ask Ben Christensen who ruined someone's life for not doing the "right thing" on the diamond.

2007-06-13 12:35:38
93.   Branch Rickey
92. Agreed. Great post. I don't like players showing each other up but when it gets to the point that you can't even smile and we have a game full of Drews, it will be zero fun to watch.
2007-06-13 12:35:55
94.   Tangled Up in Blue
Can anyone tell me the best way to get from downtown (I am in the Gas Company Towers on 5th and Olive) to the Downtown Gate at the stadium without using the freeway?
2007-06-13 12:37:04
95.   Branch Rickey
93. Just to add on, Saito's smile could be considered showing up the other team; do we want that washed out of the game?
2007-06-13 12:37:09
96.   bhsportsguy
BTW - on the bonuses that the Dodgers' gave their 3rd and 4th round picks, they are pretty much the average that was given out in those slots for the previous few years.

It will probably cost around 3 million to sign their number one pick, supplemental and second round pick, if Blair wants supplemental money, add another million to that.

2007-06-13 12:37:32
97.   blue22
90 - But which of those reasons were most to blame for the booing of LoDuca though? I'd say a relatively small amount were for #3. I suspect most fall into the invisible #6, which is that he used to wear an LA uniform, but no longer does. And that bothers me.

How was Shawn Green received?

2007-06-13 12:39:09
98.   bhsportsguy
90 subsection 1, I am sure that there are some on this current team, that certain folks here hate because they are and would love them if they were somewhere else.
2007-06-13 12:43:16
99.   Curtis Lowe
If flipping your bat after a home run cause you to get beaned, then why doesn't everyone flip their bats after a home run? If it's a for sure extra base then hey that sounds like a gamers way of helping out the team.
2007-06-13 12:43:28
100.   Daniel Zappala
I think you can give a little leeway to a pitcher who flips his bat after his first major league home run. Particularly a pitcher who has spent 5 years recovering from two Tommy John surgeries and is fighting just to stay in the big leagues. Particularly if he didn't mean it and was quoted as saying it was an accident.

Someone is carrying around a lot of anger inside if they are angry about this.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-06-13 12:45:09
101.   Dark Horse
90-Did LoDuca really Rule-one-violation the Dodgers? Did he say that, I mean? I missed it.
2007-06-13 12:49:54
102.   Fallout
The idea that Hong-Chih Kuo was consciously showing up the Mets in any way with his post-homer bat-toss is preposterous.

Some people just got to make things and statements bigger than what they are. Sometimes they catch on and seem to become the truth when in fact it was innocent. So it goes with political correctness.

"Political correctness does not invent things out of thin comes out of somewhere of substance..." As with this example with Kuo, the substance is weak or just plain innocent and misinterpreted. The same issues apply with PC.

2007-06-13 12:50:22
103.   Bob Timmermann
Using surface streets, it's better to use the Academy Gate.

Just go north on Broadway, go through Chinatown, then take a left on Solano and head to the stadium that way.

If you insist on the Downtown Gate, turn left on Bishops Road.

2007-06-13 12:51:37
104.   Branch Rickey
I'm honestly surprised this has even spurred discussion on any side of the fence. It was so far from a transgression and so obviously not meant in any way to be disrespectful that if any Mets are upset, they are simply mad at their own play and are trying to avoid a mirror.
2007-06-13 12:53:47
105.   Penarol1916
102. Where in the world do you get a political correctness diatribe out of this whole issue?
2007-06-13 12:57:53
106.   Tangled Up in Blue
103 Thanks Bob, much appreciated.
2007-06-13 12:58:53
107.   Hythloday
105 - Jeremy Piven is a big Cubs fan
2007-06-13 12:58:54
108.   Bob Timmermann
I HIGHLY recommend the Academy Gate.
2007-06-13 12:59:11
109.   Eric Enders
105 I was wondering the same thing.
2007-06-13 12:59:56
110.   Fallout
105 Penarol1916
Where in the world...

Not very far, our 6-2-07 discussion.

2007-06-13 13:00:58
111.   blue22
Did someone point this out already? Ned responding to a question about injuries potential sapping Nomar's power:

"He contends that he is not, and we touch base with him all the time with our training staff and he says that he feels fine. ... They don't give you more points for a homerun than a RBI single. But it would be good to get more power.

Nice, Ned. Nice. They do in fact give you more "points" for a homerun than a single. But there you go.

2007-06-13 13:01:20
112.   El Lay Dave
108 I second that recommendation. Even after moving to the S.F. Valley from Northeast L.A. hasn't stopped from swinging around to the Academy Gate.
2007-06-13 13:02:36
113.   regfairfield
111 Ned actually said that? Really? Good God.
2007-06-13 13:02:57
114.   Greg Brock
Ned scares me sometimes.
2007-06-13 13:03:26
115.   D4P
They don't give you more points for a homerun than a RBI single. But it would be good to get more power

If, for a brief moment, we accept the claim that they don't give you more points for a homerun than a RBI single, why would it be good to get more power?

2007-06-13 13:04:23
116.   blue22
111 - Sorry, it was from a radio interview with Ben Maller on Fox Sports Radio. The dictated mention was from Maller's site via

2007-06-13 13:04:23
117.   Hallux Valgus
111 this reminds me of this past offseason, when Ned was telling Bruce Bochy how much Bochy would like working with greg Maddux. This was after Bochy had jumped to the Giants, mind you.
2007-06-13 13:07:18
118.   Doctor
This Kuo situation also really highlights something else.
When you swing a heavy wooden bat at a fast moving baseball on occasion it ends up on the other side of the outfield wall.
How do the D's 1-3 hitters defy this truth so flippantly ?
I mean even on accident they have to have > 1HR in all those ABs right?
2007-06-13 13:07:19
119.   Doctor
This Kuo situation also really highlights something else.
When you swing a heavy wooden bat at a fast moving baseball on occasion it ends up on the other side of the outfield wall.
How do the D's 1-3 hitters defy this truth so flippantly ?
I mean even on accident they have to have > 1HR in all those ABs right?
2007-06-13 13:07:35
120.   D4P
As someone who must go through a very grueling process to demonstrate my qualifications for the job I want, it's bewildering to observe how little demonstration of that sort is required of baseball general managers.
2007-06-13 13:08:00
121.   Tangled Up in Blue
108 112 Thanks for the heads up. My family has always used the Downtown Gate because our season parking is right there.

I will give the Academy Gate a try this time.

2007-06-13 13:09:31
122.   StolenMonkey86
111 - The DT game is 10 days before the trade deadline.

Who thinks we should have a Ned Colletti lookalike contest, and book our GM onto a two week vacation to the Caribbean and cut off his cell phone?

2007-06-13 13:11:02
123.   Doctor

Ned Flanders.

2007-06-13 13:11:44
124.   blue22
120 - I can't imagine that a question like that would even come up in a GM interview.

McCourt: "So, Mr. Colletti, we really appreciate you taking the time to interview with us. I think we're all very impressed. I guess the last question I have is, do you know how many points are scored on a homerun with a runner in scoring position?".

Ned: "One, just like a single would get you."

Frank confers with Jamie.

McCourt: "Yes, I believe that is correct. Congratulations and welcome to the family."

2007-06-13 13:14:04
125.   El Lay Dave
It isn't worth $55 million, but apparently Darren Dreifort found another way to contribute.

[Kuo has] often credited Darren Dreifort (two Tommy John surgeries) and Eric Gagne (one) for their advice and counsel to keep him going.

from Gurnick's article.

2007-06-13 13:14:58
126.   ToyCannon
If Ned really believed that they wouldn't have been working with Loney on developing his power by changing his swing. I'm sure Ned is as worried as we are about Nomar's power outage but why would he say so?
2007-06-13 13:16:46
127.   Greg Brock
126 Of course he wouldn't throw Nomar under the bus. No good GM would do that.

But don't say a football tastes the same as a ham sandwich.

2007-06-13 13:18:57
128.   natepurcell
ummm, under the GCL roster, Kyle Orr is listed under Catchers along with Draft and Follow signee, Gorman "THE LEAF" Erickson.
2007-06-13 13:19:23
129.   D4P
Heh heh. Well, I wasn't even thinking in terms of actual questions per se, but rather just some kind of indication that you actually know what you're doing and are good at doing it. Not only do GMs apparently not have to provide such evidence, but they can provide evidence to the contrary and still keep their jobs.
2007-06-13 13:19:35
130.   bhsportsguy
I think we tend to read way too much into these things, I recall Ned saying for over a year that the club needed a power bat, he looked for it over the winter and there was another article about it just over the weekend.
2007-06-13 13:20:18
131.   Daniel Zappala
It is true that a homer gets you the same points as a single -- batting average points.
2007-06-13 13:20:51
132.   bhsportsguy
128 My recollection is that Orr is a pretty big fellow. I am not sure you can trust those rosters until the games start.
2007-06-13 13:21:56
133.   Fallout
126 ToyCannon

I agree. They brought Loney up for a reason. They are not happy with the production from Nomar.

2007-06-13 13:22:59
134.   ToyCannon
Sometimes I like DT but when you start analyzing a simple throw away comment by a GM and saying he's unfit for the job, I lose my appetite. In all cases the actions speak louder then words and Loney wouldn't be on the roster right now if Ned wasn't concerned about Nomar.
2007-06-13 13:25:36
135.   StolenMonkey86
134 - you're sure it wasn't the 9th inning in San Diego?
2007-06-13 13:25:36
136.   D4P
when you start analyzing a simple throw away comment by a GM and saying he's unfit for the job, I lose my appetite

Well, it's not as if saying he's unfit for the job is based solely upon a simple throw away comment...

2007-06-13 13:27:43
137.   blue22
134 - I think we're having a little fun with it, but you have to admit, it isn't completely out of character for him.

Did you think he was being misquoted or taken out of context with his "gets on base an awful lot" comment about Pierre? I think he was sincere in that particular statement, which is equally as asinine.

2007-06-13 13:27:45
138.   Penarol1916
105. I tend to not read the weekend threads, what exactly did that discussion have to do with translating the unwritten rules of baseball to a diatribe against political correctness.
2007-06-13 13:27:54
139.   Marty
Don't go down Broadway for a few hours. Its closed in Chinatown right now because a cop got clipped by a tour bus. I got caught up in the traffic jam at lunch.
2007-06-13 13:28:35
140.   bhsportsguy
132 They have not posted the new rosters for Ogden and GCL yet, I believe Orr has been in Florida this spring but I think like Josh Bell, he will make his professional debut in Ogden.
2007-06-13 13:30:07
141.   Bob Timmermann
Presumably Broadway will be cleared by this evening.

So is Marty saying "Forget it Bob, it's Chinatown."

2007-06-13 13:30:13
142.   Marty
I can't believe I'm defending Flanders but, if Ned had been talking about runs, he would have said runs, not points.
2007-06-13 13:31:38
143.   Greg Brock
134 Point taken. It's a throwaway line, and not indicative of his recent actions vis a vie the roster. He justs says silly things and has a silly mustache and signed Juan Pierre. Don't lose your appetite.

We could always go back to Simpsons quotes...

2007-06-13 13:34:58
144.   Disabled List
I think the Ned quote in 111 is just standard GM-speak. He's trying to stand by Nomar (a player he signed) by saying an RBI single produces runs just like a HR does. I don't think that quote should be parsed too much.

He was doing the same thing when he said Pierre "gets on base an awful lot," although that's a little less defensible.

2007-06-13 13:35:07
145.   bhsportsguy
Slightly OT - I cringe when I see or hear political correctness because when it appears, it is almost always wrong in how it is applied to that situation.

Also, PC has become some type of code of a First Amendment/censorship flag to be waved when there might be a legitimate concern raised.

That said, if Kuo offended anyone with his bat flip, I don't think it had anything to do with his culture, where he was born or what language he speaks. If he got anyone upset, it was a because of a baseball act and baseball protocol.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox.

2007-06-13 13:35:30
146.   Doctor
Turns out the bigs are a little tougher than college or AAA, Mr. Lincecum.
2007-06-13 13:36:22
147.   Fallout
142 Marty

Some would have you believe that he doesn't know the difference.

2007-06-13 13:36:54
148.   blue22
142 - he would have said runs, not points.

Well, I don't believe he was referring to the Weight Watchers diet.

2007-06-13 13:39:36
149.   Doctor
Flanders gets a lot of flack for the "gets on base a lot quote" but its just one of those things that gets said in an interview that doesn't pass the small test. Happens all the time to CEOs, politicians etc…
I'm sure he understands OBP and other stats.
Its just is what it is, a bad signing due to a panic.
2007-06-13 13:40:04
150.   Jon Weisman
It was a stupid thing to say (did he actually, actually say it)? I'm less worried about it reflecting Ned's true beliefs than I am about people buying into it as a philosophy.

It's not the first time I've heard this kind of sentiment expressed. People comparing a RBI single to a homer - somehow, when the guy hits the homer, the runner on second disappears.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-06-13 13:41:38
151.   Humma Kavula
148 Well, I think Marty's on to something here. I think Ned did mean points, as in "bonus points," "points for trying," etc. It's a colloquial expression.

Ned's unfortunate, of course, that he's talking about a game in which real points -- runs -- are measured, so it's easily misinterpreted.

So in this case, I'll get on board with the off-the-cuff, no-thought-behind-it, asinine comment bandwagon.

2007-06-13 13:42:10
152.   trainwreck
I am sure Bob must be torn up inside that Jimmy Clausen had to have elbow surgery.
2007-06-13 13:42:38
153.   Jon Weisman
110 - Here's my full comment:

2007-06-02 18:16:02
125. Jon Weisman

Political correctness does not invent things out of thin air to make your lives miserable. It comes out of somewhere of substance, and I don't think it's for the people who aren't targeted by the language to decide that it's not deragatory.

I don't think this is the place for this discussion.

2007-06-13 13:44:57
154.   bhsportsguy
152 And they have another QB transferring from ND too.

I was going to quote Edward G. Robinson from some movie where they part the Red Sea but I think that would be violating all kinds of rules plus really wouldn't be applicable.

But it would be really funny.

2007-06-13 13:45:14
155.   jasonungar07
What if we just flip flopped last nights order for fun tonight. That may be better anyways..
2007-06-13 13:45:55
156.   Marty
152 Charlie Weiss is a genius though. He'll teach Clausen to use the other arm.
2007-06-13 13:46:49
157.   Jon Weisman
155 - Why isn't Kuo in the lineup tonight? What did he do to get benched?
2007-06-13 13:47:18
158.   Marty
154 I use that quote all the time. But then, I'm a pagan
2007-06-13 13:49:59
159.   natepurcell
I believe Orr has been in Florida this spring but I think like Josh Bell, he will make his professional debut in Ogden.

Bell played in the GCL the summer he signed. I would like to see Orr in Odgen but hes only 18 so maybe its okay to take it slow. Orr, Gallagher and Lambo will be fun to follow if they come up together. all 3 are lefty batters who are 6'3 or taller.

2007-06-13 13:51:39
160.   Humma Kavula
157 He flipped his bat, didn't you hear? That kind of thing has to be punished.
2007-06-13 13:52:23
161.   bhsportsguy
158 Has Chief Wiggum ever said that line?

159 They do have that extra year now.

2007-06-13 13:53:15
162.   paranoidandroid
bhsportsguy, where you sitting on Friday? I'll be down there early, going into the Stadium Club first so I can get down to the field and catch some Dodger batting practice right when the gates open.

I will stop by to say hi if you tell me where you'll be at. I'll be moving around on Field and Loge levels but can go anywhere except pavillion areas.

I am going to the game with three Angels fans. Good people but they wear red. It was easy going with them last season. Not sure about this weekend, but I like that Lowe is going on Friday against Santana.

Kuo's small showboating reminds me of Alex Cora's 19 pitch at-bat resulting in a homerun. Excited player was not trying to show anyone up, just excited. Relax. It isn't like they hit a lot of them. They aren't Milton Bradleys or anything.

2007-06-13 13:54:14
163.   PDH5204
Jon, I hope that he meant it, there was and is nothing to apologize for, and I otherwise believe that a Met who shall remain nameless but who was once a Dodger catcher also did his own bat flip rather recently when the Mets went back to back to back against the Phils, though that bat flip wasn't anywhere near as stylish as The Bat Flip. Little boys in Taiwan will otherwise be speaking of The Bat Flip in excited and reverent tones for generations to come.
2007-06-13 13:54:17
164.   jasonungar07
157 yeah great game by Kuo last night. He is young. I'll get him back in the lineup in a few days. Isn't that how we roll. lol
2007-06-13 13:55:59
165.   D4P
I don't doubt that Ned meant something along the lines of "bonus points", but that doesn't really make it any better.
2007-06-13 13:56:30
166.   trainwreck
The entire panel on Jim Rome's show loved Kuo's bat-flip.
2007-06-13 13:56:54
167.   Bob Timmermann
Chief Wiggum says the line when he's arresting Flanders. He thinks Flanders is high on goofballs.
2007-06-13 13:57:08
168.   paranoidandroid
I just hope we get to see Big Ox and Sammy go in the 8th and 9th again. Off day tomorrow, they can go three days in a row.


2007-06-13 13:57:53
169.   Kevin Lewis
83) Is Lance Burton still haunting the strip with his billboards everywhere?

Have we already discussed the samurai outfit and swords that Saito wore in the clubhouse?

2007-06-13 13:58:15
170.   Dodgers49
>>> With Honeycutt's blessing, Kuo worked entirely out of the stretch, from which he has been much more comfortable ever since his second Tommy John surgery back in 2003.

"I went back to it, and I pitched a little better," said Kuo <<<

2007-06-13 14:01:52
171.   trainwreck
It is so freaking hot here. How bad is it down south?
2007-06-13 14:01:57
172.   underdog
I came back from lunch and my coworker, a Giants fan, had a big frownie face. "What's the score?" I asked, knowing the answer. He shook his head, unable to tell me the score. Nice.

I wish the Dodgers were playing a day game today so I could watch it work and have my evenining free.

2007-06-13 14:02:30
173.   Dodgers49
Prospect unable to tame arm

>>> The severity of Dodgers minor-league pitcher Greg Miller's control problems depends upon whom you ask about it. Some in the organization have begun comparing Miller, the club's top left-handed pitching prospect before his career was temporarily derailed by shoulder problems in 2004, to Rick Ankiel, the St. Louis pitcher whose legendary bout with wildness became so profound that he now is trying to work his way back to the majors as an outfielder. <<<

2007-06-13 14:03:55
174.   trainwreck
Yeeesh. Lets not ruin this kid mentally.
2007-06-13 14:05:24
175.   blue22
169 - Not that I saw, but that geek in the tuxedo is still holding up that 4 foot tall lobster at all the busstops.

170 - Didn't Ishii try that as well, when things were going bad for him?

2007-06-13 14:08:19
176.   trainwreck
I probably should not refer to people around my age as kids. Oh, well.
2007-06-13 14:10:25
177.   El Lay Dave
169 Samurai Sammy Saito mentioned in 88, but no further discussion.
2007-06-13 14:15:42
178.   Marty
It's the giant Danny Gans picture at the Mirage that gives me the creeps.
2007-06-13 14:23:36
179.   Dodgers49
Draft for power? Dodgers' style is to try to find the best athletes

>>> As a result, the watchword becomes "projectability" — which is to say, scouting directors have to guess how a player will grow into both his body and into the sport. <<<

2007-06-13 14:25:26
180.   Dodgers49
>>> Q: Do you think that Ned Colletti is happy and satisfied about having Juan Pierre in center field for the next 4 1/2 years? Talk about a two-tool player.

— Y. A. Takahashi

A: Yes. <<<

2007-06-13 14:28:15
181.   D4P
The verbiage that follows the "Yes" is, in a word, yucky.
2007-06-13 14:30:37
182.   LAT
Dodgers better win tonight if they want to keep pace. The Padres are throwing Peavy aganst E. Jax. Would love to see Edwin deal on the Pods. He can do it--he just needs to avoid that one catastrophic inning he always seems to have. Pretand the opposing pitcher is Randy Johnson.
2007-06-13 14:35:23
183.   CajunDodger
I came to the chat late, but I am much less concerned about Ned's comments than the deals he makes (or doesn't make) in the coming weeks.

I think that the jury is still out on Colletti's trades. The Betemit trade worked better for us, the Dessens trade was a wash (both times), the Lugo trade didn't work, but Guzman is still not making friends in Tampa either. Overall I would rank him dead center of all GMs in baseball. Not bad, not great.

Makes me wonder what Mrs. Ng could do if given a shot.

2007-06-13 14:37:38
184.   weatherman
171 - Low 90's in Memphis today.
2007-06-13 14:39:36
185.   weatherman
It ain't the heat that gets us here, though. It's the humidity.
2007-06-13 14:40:50
186.   Jon Weisman
183 - Mrs.?
2007-06-13 14:41:13
187.   Vaudeville Villain

That was pretty awful stuff.

2007-06-13 14:44:52
188.   Vaudeville Villain
"I think he's disappointed with Pierre's production so far, but Colletti, like many baseball people, have faith Pierre will turn things around."

Baseball people is a synonym for incompetent, apparently.

2007-06-13 14:45:12
189.   bluegold
183. I thought it was still Miss Ng.
2007-06-13 14:47:41
190.   Xeifrank
152. Clausen, elbow surgery? I will shed no tears. Hope he is ok though.
vr, Xei
2007-06-13 14:49:05
191.   bluegold
186. Oh, I get it. He meant to give Kim Ng's mother a shot. Surely, couldn't do worse than Colletti.
2007-06-13 14:49:15
192.   Xeifrank
Mrs, Miss, since when do we care about how names are pronounced!? :)
vr, Xei
2007-06-13 14:54:11
193.   bhsportsguy
From her profile:

Kim Ng (pronounced ANG) enters her sixth season as Vice President and Assistant General Manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers.

She is one of only two female executives in Major League Baseball to hold such a position in baseball operations and was the first woman to interview for a general manager's position in Major League history when she did so with the Dodgers in 2005.

Ng graduated from the University of Chicago, where she played softball for four years and earned a Bachelor's degree in Public Policy. A native of Ridgewood, NJ, she resides in Silver Lake, CA with her husband Tony Markward.

2007-06-13 14:54:49
194.   Jon Weisman
193 - Oh. How 'bout that.
2007-06-13 14:57:02
195.   The Rabbits Rarely Loose
Does anyone know what Sosa's adjusted ERA would be in going from his .200 BABIP to the MLB average .300? . . . is it even possible to determine?
2007-06-13 14:58:33
196.   El Lay Dave
193 Well then, it is Miss Kim Ng, I suppose, just as actresses used to be billed, irrespective of their marital status, e.g. Miss Barbara Stanwyck. Ms. may be contrived and not a true abbreviation since there is no word for which it is an abbreviation, but it can be handy.
2007-06-13 15:01:34
197.   underdog
Mrs... sounds a little markward to me.

Hah. Giants are still getting creamed today.

2007-06-13 15:02:43
198.   blue22
I wonder if she's well taken care of in this organization. Seattle's GM position will presumably be open soon, and Dan Evans is a special assistant to the GM in Seattle's front office (but apparently isn't considered for the main gig). I could see her being a pretty strong candidate for that job given her ties to Evans.
2007-06-13 15:03:28
199.   Humma Kavula
180 et al.

Just when I thought the OutWatch was making progress, we get this. Sigh.

2007-06-13 15:12:03
200.   El Lay Dave
197 And if he marries into the Dodger family, he should consider changing the spelling (back?) to "Marquard".
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-06-13 15:15:36
201.   underdog
Sometimes I wonder about Bruce Bochy... 2nd time in two days that the Giants have had a pitcher come up and pinch hit. He's burning through pitchers and position players faster than Nick Nolte goes through a pack of Salems.
2007-06-13 15:16:13
202.   underdog
Anyone with ESPN Insider subscription glean anything interesting out of Jim Callis chat today?
2007-06-13 15:19:49
203.   El Lay Dave
Maybe Ron Darling is still peeved about the gopherball he chucked to a LHP at Dodger Stadium. Have we seen a LH-hitting Dodger pitcher hit one anything like K/Guo's since this guy?

2007-06-13 15:22:46
204.   bhsportsguy
202 Nah, except that he figures that since the Dodgers used a 5th round pick on Blair, they must think they are going to sign him.
2007-06-13 15:24:10
205.   blue22
202 - Just Callis being confident on LA signing Blair.

Charlie (Pasadena): Kyle Blair - Dodgers or College?

Jim Callis: Good question, another sandwich-round guy who fell to the fifth round. I think they'll make a run and I don't think they would taken him so early if they didn't think they could sign him. So I'll say Dodgers.

2007-06-13 15:25:17
206.   Gen3Blue
How did this Sosa sneak in to show these good stats. He's done it before, but he has always pitched less than 100 innings a year. I choose to believe he is way over his head rather than on the verge of a break-out!
2007-06-13 15:26:33
207.   blue22
201 - Lincecum and Sanchez both had their first major league hits today (both doubles).
2007-06-13 15:27:32
208.   ToyCannon
So the kid McGowan did a fine job in dispatching the NL West while on the road.
2007-06-13 15:28:06
209.   underdog
207 Yeah, and Sanchez was hitting for himself, too, not pinch hitting in that case. What's up with all these pitchers getting their knocks in this week?
2007-06-13 15:28:14
210.   Gen3Blue
203 Good shot (would have been even better if the D's won the game)
2007-06-13 15:33:00
211.   Jon Weisman
2007-06-13 15:35:50
212.   Bob Timmermann
And I was going to buy a ticket just to be nice and get the total above 30.

Good thing I didn't do that.

2007-06-13 15:38:35
213.   bhsportsguy
212 What you don't know is that we are all planning to stop at the library first and ask for a copy of the Tropic of Cancer.
2007-06-13 15:38:52
214.   underdog
Should I buy a ticket for a giant cardboard cutout of myself to be represented at DT Night? Maybe there's an underdog on
2007-06-13 15:40:20
215.   blue22
209 - Did Bochy also pinch-hit for Klesko (.850 OPS) with Vizquel (.578 OPS) in the 5th inning with runners on?!? I don't see any mention of Klesko being hurt...
2007-06-13 15:41:05
216.   Bob Timmermann
I helped someone find "The Stranger" by "Cay-mus" as well as a copy of "Oh-de-puss Rex."
2007-06-13 15:42:04
217.   Hallux Valgus
215 Klesko pulled up lame rounding the bases and came out of the game.
2007-06-13 15:44:23
218.   blue22
217 - Yeah just read that on McCovey Chronicles. Yahoo is pretty good at telling you when someone leaves with an injury, but it missed it this time.
2007-06-13 15:46:45
219.   underdog
216 I'm just glad people are still reading!
2007-06-13 15:49:42
220.   Bob Timmermann
They only wanted the books if they were recorded.
2007-06-13 15:52:17
221.   D4P
I'm just glad people are still listening!
2007-06-13 15:59:06
222.   Humma Kavula

Hell is other library patrons.

2007-06-13 16:01:31
223.   Prescott Pete
Holy mackerel.
2007-06-13 16:09:32
224.   Lexinthedena
Wed. night baseball started...

Anyone else upset over the D-Backs new uni's being dead ringers to the Stro's threads?.....Really bugs me...

2007-06-13 16:10:31
225.   underdog
220 Sheesh. At least they didn't ask you to read it to them... This sounds like that Monty Python bookshop routine.
2007-06-13 16:13:41
226.   underdog
Your Kent-less line-up is now up on ItD:

Furcal, SS
Pierre, CF
Nomar, 1B
Gonzo, LF
Martin, C
Betemit, 3B
Kemp, RF
Abreu, 2B
Penny, P

Nomar in 3-hole again, sigh. But whatever, overall I like the lineup.

2007-06-13 16:15:45
227.   D4P
Furcal, SS
Pierre, CF
Nomar, 1B

The Sub-.700 Club!

2007-06-13 16:17:20
228.   Xeifrank
206. Sosa's BABIP is around .200, league average is around .300, and his strikeout numbers are not very impressive. The Dodgers will beat him tonight. DodgerSims says the Dodgers win probability is 56.9%
Go Dodgers!
vr, Xei
2007-06-13 16:18:10
229.   Tom Meagher
I read the link in \180\, dunno why. On Pierre, Baxter writes: "And there's no reason to think that Pierre — at 29, entering the prime of his career — has suddenly forgotten how to play."

While I would agree with a statement like "there's no reason to think that Pierre has suddenly forgotten how to play" (though it needs the caveat that Pierre was not a spectacular player to begin with), does anyone involved believe that "at 29, [Pierre is] entering the prime of his career"?

Well, maybe the prime for earning points, but the prime for producing runs?

2007-06-13 16:18:22
230.   Lexinthedena
Trade Nomar to New York.....They have nothing at first, and it will give them some good anti Sox mojo....
2007-06-13 16:23:13
231.   gpellamjr
So... would the current Dodgers be better if we had all the same players in 2001?
2007-06-13 16:23:36
232.   Humma Kavula
180 should come with a warning: reading it is hazardous to one's work productivity.

After reading it, I wrote a 400-word note to the author of the article.

2007-06-13 16:24:22
233.   Nagman
Rough start for Edwin Jackson.
2007-06-13 16:24:47
234.   PDH5204
As I said, for generations to come:

2007-06-13 16:25:57
235.   jasonungar07
I am not sure what Pictures Nomar has of Grady or Ned but they must be good. I am so happy we get more of the bison tonight. He is really exciting to watch.
2007-06-13 16:26:03
236.   Humma Kavula
231 Do you mean, if we had the 2001 versions of all of these players this year?

Furcal was (I think) injured in 2001. Wouldn't we then have to make due with 2001 Lucille II?

2007-06-13 16:28:10
237.   underdog
227 On the bright side... "5-6-7-8, who do we appreciate? 5-6-7-8."
2007-06-13 16:29:01
238.   gpellamjr
236 Hmm... I'm just thinking that 2001 Nomar, Kent, Gonzo, Schmidt, Lieberthal, et al would make for a pretty impressive team. Imagine having 2001 Seanez!
2007-06-13 16:31:17
239.   gpellamjr
238 But the point is, would we be better off given the vast superiority of the veterans we have in those years over their current state, even though we would have to deal with a 16 year old Broxton.
2007-06-13 16:32:23
240.   Humma Kavula
238 and 2001 Juan Pierre had an OPS+ of 89!
2007-06-13 16:32:32
241.   fan 4 40 plus
Edwin didn't make it out of the first inning...
2007-06-13 16:34:39
242.   Bob Timmermann
Game score of 20 for Edwin Jackson.
2007-06-13 16:36:55
243.   underdog
Edwin, Edwin...

Poor guy. Does he need to get another change of scenery to rebuild his confidence? Or maybe he's just... not very good.

2007-06-13 16:37:23
244.   bigcpa
Kemp no Kent...

Furcal, SS
Pierre, CF
Nomar, 1B
Gonzo, LF
Martin, C
Betemit, 3B
Kemp, RF
Abreu, 2B
Penny, P

2007-06-13 16:43:50
245.   Branch Rickey
That LA TImes piece had a question that included asking about Pierre maybe using a bat that is too big. Pierre uses the lightest bat on the team (not sure the exact weight) and apparently as light as some have ever seen.
2007-06-13 16:44:31
246.   kngoworld
Two sits in a row for Ethier?
2007-06-13 16:45:50
247.   D4P
Maybe Pierre should get some tips from Slammin' Sammy on how to make his bat even lighter...
2007-06-13 16:48:44
248.   Curtis Lowe
247 - Strength Training...
2007-06-13 16:50:30
249.   D4P
Strength Training...

That too...

2007-06-13 16:53:13
250.   underdog
244 {cough} 226 {cough} ;-)
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-06-13 16:55:38
251.   Lexinthedena
I remeber watching Juan with the marlins thinking "man, imagine if we had him"....

The hot chick from school is now bitter and....

U get the idea...don't want to be all pig ish....

2007-06-13 16:55:54
252.   blue22
245 - I could loan him my mini-Dodger bat from back in the day. I bet I even have the helmet that my soft serve ice cream came in to match.
2007-06-13 16:56:03
253.   Branch Rickey
248/249 Nope, that's not it either. The guy works out like a fiend and is pretty ripped. So not lack of strength or a bat that's too heavy. It sure is something.
2007-06-13 16:56:11
254.   Marty
If Pierre corked his bat he still wouldn't have warning track power.
2007-06-13 16:57:19
255.   Bluebleeder87
it will be interesting to see if Kemp gets a steady diet of breaking balls.
2007-06-13 16:58:58
256.   neuroboy002
246 Have a feeling Ethier will be gone by the deadline. Wouldn't want to see it happen because I think he's a lot better than what he has shown, but the recent call-ups play well...
2007-06-13 16:59:59
257.   Jon Weisman
255 - Kemp showed discipline after his home run Tuesday, taking some breaking stuff and getting a walk. Good sign.
2007-06-13 17:01:11
258.   Bluebleeder87
it's just fun watching the development of players period.
2007-06-13 17:02:28
259.   Eric Enders
257 With one exception, all of the pitches he took were waaaaay out of the strike zone. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he didn't swing at them, but I don't think it was indicative of a huge amount of discipline on Kemp's part. Even Pierre and Nomar wouldn't have swung at those pitches.
2007-06-13 17:04:55
260.   bigcpa
Sosa allowed 30 HR last year. No excuses to miss Kemp ab's tonite. I was lucky enough to arrive at the game in the 3rd yesterday.
2007-06-13 17:05:37
261.   Branch Rickey
I would be okay with trading Ethier and giving his job to Kemp. Close call for now. I think that Ethier is sure to be in the league for many years and I can't say that I'm sure of the same for Kemp. But Kemp's ceiling is so high and he seems so close to being ready to achiece those heights, I think I'd be willing to pull the trigger. Hopefully we'd get some real value for Ethier because I think he's worth something. Just don't think he'll ever be a star.
2007-06-13 17:07:43
262.   Humma Kavula
256 Of all the prospects, Ethier is the one I am most willing to part with (depending on the deal, of course). I'm not convinced about him... I don't know anything about anything, but just looking at what he's done in the majors so far, I wonder if it's just as likely that Ethier 2007 is just as likely to be the "real Ethier" as Ethier 2006 or something in-between.

I'm not ready to trade him for, say, Julio Lugo.... just saying that if I'm Ned, if there's a player out there I want, Ethier is where I start to try to work out a deal.

2007-06-13 17:09:22
263.   Eric Enders
I don't think trading Ethier is in the cards. Our outfield depth stinks because although we have four basically full-time OFs at the present moment, the fifth, sixth, and seventh options (Clark, Bigbie, Repko) are lost and any sort of injury would probably mean being forced to call up Xavier Paul. Also, I think we're all hoping that regardless of his performance so far, Gonzalez is not picked up for next year, which would leave the outfield even more threadbare for 2008.

Ethier doesn't go unless we get an OF in return. And maybe not even then.

2007-06-13 17:12:23
264.   Bluebleeder87

i agree he'll be a solid 290+avg, 18+ dingers & 75+ RBI guy. i've noticed his OBP is really bad so far this year.

2007-06-13 17:13:01
265.   Humma Kavula
263 I see what you're saying, but doesn't the fact that a player like Clark was available for Elmer Dessens indicate that the Dodgers could pick up a substitute if the need arises?
2007-06-13 17:15:09
266.   El Lay Dave
263 Is Loney not considered OF #5 at this point, despite not having played there yet in the bigs? Would D. Young - I know, not a stellar OF - get called up before Paul? I agree that the OF depth has to come from somewhere and I also think that Ethier will not be traded merely to move him.
2007-06-13 17:15:36
267.   neuroboy002
261 It is a close call. The positives I see about Ethier are his swing is nice & fluid, despite what some say he does have an above average arm and last year he led the team in average, being a hit machine. Also, he is low profile, the anti-Bradley. It's hard to ignore what he showed last year, but I agree that if we do trade him, we better get somebody of value instead of someone on their career down-swing like Lugo. I am a bit amazed that we are approaching the middle of June and his average is under .300. I was definitely expecting more from him.
2007-06-13 17:17:18
268.   El Lay Dave
265 Would you rather have Ethier or, say, Willie Harris on the roster?
2007-06-13 17:17:38
269.   bhsportsguy
264 If Ethier could be penciled in for those numbers, go back and find all outfielders who did that at his age on a consistent basis. Remember, Green and Shef came to the team after they were established.

Mondesi would be one, Guerrero when he played OF, perhaps Mike Marshall in a good year.

Not a long list to be sure.

2007-06-13 17:19:11
270.   Branch Rickey
263. I'm assuming that Ethier goes in a trade with a couple of others for an impact 3rd baseman or outfielder. If he goes for a 3rd baseman (initials MC- let it be so!) than I can live for one year of the backups being Choo Freeman or whoever is around. As 265 said, Clark was no prize. We can then pick up another outfielder (like Gonzo) in the offseason or convert Loney.
2007-06-13 17:22:42
271.   Humma Kavula
268 Well, that's not really the choice, is it? If Ethier can be the centerpiece of a trade for a power bat at 1B -- and maybe he can't be -- then the choice is between the 1B+Harris or Ethier. I don't know what I'd prefer.

Apropos of nothing, Willie Harris' OPS+ this year is 178.

2007-06-13 17:22:42
272.   Branch Rickey
269. Ethier is no Shef or Guerrero no how no way. He might be like Green but he might be like Marshall.
2007-06-13 17:23:48
273.   El Lay Dave
While we were busy bemoaning the lack of production from Nomar, Pierre, etc., there was little discussion about Ethier slumping. His up-to-date stats for the season (218 PAs):
.261 .307 .402 87
with a Pierre-esque 13 BBs.

No wonder Grady is giving Andre some pine time.

2007-06-13 17:24:47
274.   Jim Hitchcock
I remember the Saenz shot well. Thanks for bringing it back, Big.
2007-06-13 17:25:03
275.   neuroboy002
Out of curiosity, is the jury still out on Cabrera for being overweight and having poor work habits or is that notion exacerbated?
2007-06-13 17:25:23
276.   bhsportsguy
272 I am not saying he is any of those guys, what I am saying is that the Dodgers have had a poor history of outfielders for the last 25 years. So if Ethier was someone who was able to provide that level of production, it should not be easily dismissed.
2007-06-13 17:29:23
277.   Branch Rickey
276. I hear you. And I'm fine with keeping him. But if we're going to trade for an impact bat (and I think we should) than he's one of the guys of value that I'd part with first.
2007-06-13 17:29:41
278.   bhsportsguy
BTW, Kershaw is pitching tonight, so far he has pitched 4 innings, with 4 strikeouts, 4 hits, a walk and no runs allowed.

Josh Bell has a triple and they lead 4-0.

After a horrible start, Great Lakes is slowly getting near the .500 mark, I think it was really hard for these youngsters to adjust to the weather and the new affiliate but Parrish appears to have them playing better as we approach the mid-season.

2007-06-13 17:31:42
279.   El Lay Dave
271 LOL - Willie Harris regression to the mean should be as painful as Wilson Valdez's was.
2007-06-13 17:33:51
280.   Humma Kavula
280 Yeah. I mean, I knew what you meant when you suggested Willie Harris as an example, but holy cats, yes, I will take 2007 so far Willie Harris on my roster over 2007 so far Andre Ethier... :-)
2007-06-13 17:34:44
281.   El Lay Dave
271 Oh, the point is that I think the 4th OF needs to be a legitimate player that can at least spot start and pinch-hit with some authority, and I don't think relying on the dregs of the waiver wire for that job is a great idea. Now, again, if Loney is being considered a part-time OF....
2007-06-13 17:39:07
282.   Eric Enders
I don't think Ethier will ever become this version of Shawn Green

but has a pretty decent chance of becoming this one:

I think the numbers in 264 represent Ethier's upside (.290, 18 HR, 75 RBI) and considering his relative lack of plate discipline, that is barely acceptable performance for a corner outfielder. Even if it does weaken our outfield depth, we might be better off trading him before the other teams figure out that he's not quite good enough to be a MLB regular.

2007-06-13 17:40:45
283.   Lexinthedena
Ethier will have a breakout at some point in his carreer. He should be Matt Kemps biggest fan right now, because if Kemp shows us that he is ready to be a top tier run producer then no trades will be made IMO, and one of corner spots will be 'Dre's to lose next year....
2007-06-13 17:43:47
284.   Eric Enders
Also, as to the question of whether Ethier succeeds and becomes Shawn Green or fails and becomes Mike Marshall, I think we'd have to consider ourselves very, very lucky if he became either one. Marshall, for all the derision he gets, had a 117 career OPS+ as a Dodger.
2007-06-13 17:46:41
285.   Branch Rickey
I think Ethier will be Ethier and that just means too many knuckleballs to left field for my taste. I agree with 282
2007-06-13 17:49:33
286.   Humma Kavula
Heh - it just occurred to me that I am advocating trading Ethier at a moment when his value is probably the lowest since he became a Dodger.

Precisely what so many of us deride Ned for doing.

2007-06-13 17:51:42
287.   tjshere
282 Poor Andre just can't shake that 3.5 label.
2007-06-13 17:52:00
288.   Eric Enders
286 The difference is, you would likely trade him for something useful. Ned would probably trade him for Willy Taveras.
2007-06-13 17:54:14
289.   Eric Enders
287 If he wants to, he can lie and say he got the name because he hits like Tony Gwynn.
2007-06-13 17:57:54
290.   Uncle Miltie
I wanted Ethier traded in the offseason. I believe that Ethier will be an .800 OPS/solid defensive outfielder for the prime years of his career, but his game does have flaws. Ethier is not a patient hitter. Quite often, he will swing at the first pitch and roll over to 1B. I don't expect him to be Bobby Abreu at the plate (in terms of patience), but it would be nice to see a player average power take a few pitches. Ethier is also a slightly below average runner. He is a difficult guy to score from first on a double. Fortunately, his speed doesn't affect his defense in the outfield (especially in right field). For the most part, Ethier gets good reads on flyballs. He doesn't leave his feet too often nor does he miss the cutoff man. He has an above average arm. Ethier is a smart defensive player.

I don't expect Kemp to be a huge difference maker this year, but he can be a solid contributor. He has solid power, is a very good baserunner with above average speed, and has the potential to be an above average corner outfield. At the very worst, Kemp will end up in the Reggie Sanders mold of being a great athlete who didn't develop as expected, but still had an excellent career.

2007-06-13 18:02:27
291.   Branch Rickey
290. I really don't think the issue is patience. He had about 20 ABs is a row this year where he took the first pitch for strike one- fastball down the middle. He refused to swing at it. I think his issue is pitch regognition; he doesn't know when to swing and when to lay off. Look for a pitch and drive it if you get it and lay off if you don't. He just seems a little clueless sometimes. Can't teach smart.
2007-06-13 18:05:26
292.   trainwreck
My friend took a picture with Kemp at Canter's today.
2007-06-13 18:08:09
293.   Doctor
It time for Jogre Sosa to come back to earth. Seriously, who put a quarter in this guy?
2007-06-13 18:09:03
294.   CanuckDodger
Kershaw's line tonight:

7.0 IP, 4 H's, O R's, 2BB's, 8 K's, 1.89 ERA

He also picked off two guys at first base.

After seven innings, I imagine he is probably done.

2007-06-13 18:12:28
295.   Doctor

Suns soon?

2007-06-13 18:13:02
296.   bhsportsguy
Kershaw pitched 7 innings, 4 hits (all singles), 2 walks, 8 strikeouts, retired last 6 in a row and no runs allowed. He leaves leading 6-0.

He is averaging over 11K per 9 innings, his walks are higher than you like, just under 5 per 9 innings, but he has only allowed 1 homer in 62 innings and teams are hitting less than .180 against him. His ERA is under 2.

2007-06-13 18:14:02
297.   Jon Weisman
292 - Kemp at Canter's? He is the new Shawn Green.
2007-06-13 18:14:12
298.   bhsportsguy
295 Nah, I would think Cal. League and if he does, he may inspire a DT caravan to the Inland Empire.
2007-06-13 18:14:27
299.   Eric Enders
295 I think Kershaw will have to conquer the Inland Empire (no easy feat) before moving up to Double A. I don't really see him skipping a level, except maybe Las Vegas.
2007-06-13 18:14:55
300.   bhsportsguy
297 I was going to ask, what time did this meeting take place but I don't want to get Matty in trouble.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-06-13 18:15:29
301.   El Lay Dave
293 May Sosa's regression to the mean begin tonight.

291 Is AAA pitching that bad that Ethier can succeed there without those skills? (Maybe for those 20 AB he was trying the Bill Russell theory of hitting. He should abandon that.)

2007-06-13 18:17:26
302.   trainwreck
Oh my God!!! Jason Kendall hit a home run!!
2007-06-13 18:18:48
303.   Doctor
... Houston.
2007-06-13 18:19:45
304.   Indiana Jon
Not that I'm against moving him up to Inland, bit I hope it's not for a few weeks. Going to see the Loons play in Dayton 4th of July weekend. What are the odds Kershaw will still be with them at that time?
2007-06-13 18:23:30
305.   Eric Enders
302 That means there are now four regular players in MLB without a home run this year. Two of them are playing for the Dodgers tonight. Perhaps Ned is on the phone trying to acquire Sean Casey and Luis Castillo as we speak.
2007-06-13 18:24:16
306.   Eric Enders
304 I'd guess 60/40 he's still there. The Dodgers seem to like to move their players up just after the A-S break.
2007-06-13 18:28:18
307.   Eric Enders
I know you can't throw out one game, but still... more than half of Kershaw's earned runs this year were given up in one game. If you toss out the May 13 outing, his numbers for the year are 7-1 with a 0.77 ERA.

That's Lincecumesque. Or rather, you could say Lincecum is Kershawesque.

2007-06-13 18:28:19
308.   Jon Weisman
2007-06-13 18:28:56
309.   Eric Enders
One lousy second, Jon???

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