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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

June 28 Open Chat
2007-06-28 05:40
by Jon Weisman

Every summer, I take a few days with as little computer time as possible to recharge the batteries. So keep on coming by, even if you don't see me around much.

James Loney batting .500. I know there's other stuff to talk about (like Nomar Garciaparra being benched for today's game, according to the latest press reports), but James Loney batting .500. It's cool, man.

Stay cool, everyone. Even when things go bad, watch the anger.

Comments (251)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-06-28 06:33:27
1.   Retire 55
We can't afford the Colletti-saves-face lineup: we just don't have enough offensive talent.

Kemp, Ethier, Gonzalez, Martin, and Loney must all be regular starters if we are going to win more games than the Padres for the division.

2007-06-28 06:35:40
2.   weatherman
After watching the Dodgers game last night, Cole Hamels and Chuck Norris each went out and bought James Loney under-roos.
2007-06-28 06:42:32
3.   DXMachina
The Hardball Times has an article calling Depo "The best unemployed GM in baseball."

Skipping the fact that Depo isn't actually unemployed, I gave up on it when I got to:

"The trade might've looked even better for the Dodgers had Hee Seop Choi not suffered injuries that derailed his career and ultimately headed back to Japan."

That's some careful research there, boys.

2007-06-28 06:50:48
4.   Retire 55
Has there been a single, definitive article written about DePo's fall from grace?
2007-06-28 06:54:43
5.   Doctor
D. Lowe surpasses The Player in OBP- it was just a matter of time.
2007-06-28 06:57:40
6.   Jon Weisman
4 - I wrote one for the 2006 Hardball Times Annual.
2007-06-28 07:02:45
7.   Retire 55
6 - Is it online?
2007-06-28 07:07:01
8.   Jon Weisman
I think just an excerpt.
2007-06-28 07:16:47
9.   LeeLacy
For all the usual reasons (small sample size, etc.), I've been trying to maintain some perspective and not engage in too much hyperbole regarding Loney's performance thus far. So I'll just confine myself to saying that James Loney bestrides the baseball world like a colossus, and that he's the paragon of all that is noble in the sporting universe.
2007-06-28 07:20:37
10.   JoeyP
But he's also enjoyed an increase in team payroll and an obviously higher tolerance from ownership for mistakes than DePodesta enjoyed.

To be fair, we really dont know that.
I'm sure McCourt is livid about the his money Ned spent on Pierre, Nomar, and Schmidt. Consequently, at the end of the year if the Dodgers have failed to make the playoffs---Ned might feel that low tolerance.

Paying two fired GMs for years they arent working for the Dodgers---might not seem economically feasible for the McCourts though.

2007-06-28 07:21:40
11.   JoeyP
3--Choi did get hurt when he was with the Red Sox last year. But I dont think he's in Japan.
2007-06-28 07:25:31
12.   Bob Timmermann
Hee-Seop Choi is playing in Korea, although he is injured there. I believe it was a ribcage injury.

He plays for the KIA Tigers.

2007-06-28 08:03:42
13.   Bluebleeder87
Heads up, Colletti will be on am570 with Rogan, Simers & tracy
2007-06-28 08:06:16
14.   DXMachina
3 He did get hurt with the PawSox, but it seemed like the author was implying he got hurt while with the Dodgers. It also appeared that the author thought Choi was from Japan, which isn't correct, either.
2007-06-28 08:12:12
15.   DodgerBakers
Went to the game last night with a friend who was bringing his daughter to her first ballgame. (D-backs fans, though). I was slightly alarmed at Lowe's 29 pitch first inning, but glad he settled down. One thing I like about Dodger games in Phoenix is that roughly half the crowd is Dodger fans.

Really great seeing Loney live and in person. I had the same reaction Jon did when Loney got his third hit: .500! I'm really happy to see him doing so well. Besides losing, I was most disappointed about Russell Martin. I mean, three (!) strikeouts? C'mon, and I was talking him up to my friend. Oh well, he'll get them next time.

All in all, a fun game, first one of 2007 I've been to. Going to a 51's/Sidewinders game in about a week. Who should I watch for?

2007-06-28 08:17:07
16.   bryanf
I don't know what I did before DT. Jon always has a way of putting things in persepective...particularly after a loss.
2007-06-28 08:24:11
17.   LogikReader
I know what I did.. I used to go on the Dodger Board at E*.com . I think D4P was one of the guys who used to be there too. That place turned into a *. I appreciate you having a site like this, Jon :)
2007-06-28 08:25:36
18.   D4P
The more I learn about "sabermetrics", the

1. harder it is to believe that the Dodgers actually had Paul D. as their GM, and
2. harder it is to believe they actually fired him.

I'm guessing there are plenty of things that Depo knows about baseball that Ned doesn't. On the flipside, I doubt there's anything Ned knows that Depo doesn't (other than how to mingle at Christmas parties, etc.).

2007-06-28 08:32:02
19.   Connector
Hi everybody,
I like this series against Arizona, despite the loss last night (and despite their Graceless color commentator). I think the 2007 D-backs are a spirited team who will make the tight NL west race all the more exciting. The only thing I don't like about the upcoming game is its starting time... GMT + 2 where I live (Ma'ale Adumim, Israel) Uugggh.
2007-06-28 08:37:38
20.   LogikReader
I think the bottom line, regarding this series, is that even with a split I think the Dodgers did pretty well for their road trip. If a typical team plays well at home and .500 on the road, they're doing a good job.

I also think the Juan Pierre brouhaha is a little overstated. I mentioned before how the contract was a bad one, but it doesn't mean he's terrible. Some folks just seem to have it in for JP. I also think his fly ball tracking is improved since May. OPS is SLG plus On Base. There is no way you can expect a singles and doubles hitter to have a tremendous SLG percentage, so his OPS should be less than say... Babe Ruth by default.

2007-06-28 08:38:12
21.   Inside Baseball
10 I doubt McCourt is "livid about the money Ned spent on Pierre, Nomar, and Schmidt." I'm sure he's disappointed by Schmidt's injury and hoping for more out of Nomar and Pierre, but my guess would be that he understands that injuries and slumps are part of the game. I could be naive but the more I see of McCourt and Colletti the more I like. No owner or GM is perfect, and they are far from that, but I'm willing to actually give them the benefit of the doubt for awhile, until the trading deadline at least. :)
2007-06-28 08:41:56
22.   regfairfield
20 Just because a guy can't be expected to hit anything but singles, doesn't mean that it's not a bad thing that he can't.

On the bright side, he's not the worst player the Dodgers are running out there.

21 Hopefully he learned that lesson from 2005.

2007-06-28 08:47:02
23.   Inside Baseball
Anyone else listening to Colletti on the 570AM? Wow. His forthrightness always surprises me.
2007-06-28 08:52:38
24.   Pedro Astacio
What's he saying? I can't really log on to the website right now.
2007-06-28 08:52:39
25.   Inside Baseball
And some of his comments are worrisome.
2007-06-28 08:55:18
26.   SG6
18 - Isn't mingling at Christmas parties an important function of a GM? Does the ideal GM sift through stats himself, or trust the staff he has in place to do those things for him? Do you trust the staff Ned has in place?
2007-06-28 08:55:48
27.   still bevens
21 I think McCourt is fine with the team so long as he keeps selling tickets. I wasn't a very involved fan during the sale, and I had no idea Fox maintained the TV rights for 15 years. No wonder parking always goes up.
2007-06-28 08:56:23
28.   Doctor
Schmidt I dont care about, thats split milk, but is anyone asking him about starting Kemp over The Player?
2007-06-28 08:56:51
29.   Inside Baseball
On Kemp:

"Luis Gonzalez was brought in to bridge the gap until Matt Kemp was ready. Matt's still not complete... he overthrew the relay man in Tampa is striking out too much on breaking pitches away."

I guess the .423 batting average is all luck.

2007-06-28 08:57:28
30.   Retire 55
20 - I don't care about Pierre's OPS, I care about his OBP. His OBP is terrible, and there's nothing that suggests it will improve.

25 - Oh god, tell us what he's saying.

2007-06-28 08:58:19
31.   Bob Timmermann
It is quite possible and quite likely that someone very brilliant could be fired because they just didn't fit in.

Walter O'Malley couldn't stand Branch Rickey and eventually bought him out.

2007-06-28 08:59:53
32.   Doctor

Someone please mention to him that that's the same thing as not bothering to make the throw and a pop-up.....

2007-06-28 09:01:02
33.   Inside Baseball
That's all he said about Kemp.

On Betemit:

"Betemit has been a huge frustration. I think he could break Bond's single season homerun record if he only gets one at bat a game. I don't know if it's a concentration thing...but when he has 4 at bats you wonder what's going on...He's the one player we have to decide how patient we will be...Of all the players we have, every third or fourth team calling asks for him but they don't want to give up anything to get him...since the batting coach change, Manny Mota's been working with him more...He's the most frustrating player, hands down."

2007-06-28 09:01:27
34.   Bluebleeder87

1)Ned is a great public speaker very funny also
2)Home Depo is awkward around people & unfunny.IMO.

2007-06-28 09:02:55
35.   still bevens
33 Coulda used one of those Betemit AB's last night. Thanks, Grady.
2007-06-28 09:04:31
36.   Humma Kavula
After reading 29 and 33, here's some good news: I have just done my part to help the Dodgers to a memorable win on Saturday: I sold my tickets to the game.

Last time I did this was September 18, 2006.

No guarantees are made or implied in this post. Just saying: I've done my part, and now it's up to the rest of the world.

2007-06-28 09:05:25
37.   Inside Baseball
On Nomar:
"It's concerning to a great level...we see him having a void of confidence...right now he's still leading the lead in batting w/ rsp if you can believe that...but there's a disconnect somewhere..can't put my finger on it...we have to allow him to relax and play and see if can find [his confidence] again."

Q:"well, is moving him to a 3rd base, a new postition, going to help him relax?"

A: "That's not our fault if you know what I mean."

2007-06-28 09:06:52
38.   JoeyP
34--So is Bill Gates, but I dont think Microsoft is going to fire him.

But, if being funny and a good public speaker is all it takes to be a GM--I think Jerry Seinfeld should be the GM.

2007-06-28 09:07:08
39.   regfairfield
33 Hmmmm...thinking that's not true. Let's verify.

Before this year:
Betemit overall: .271/.332/.433
Betemit off the bench: .206/.325/.279

So unless Betemit magically became the worlds best pinch hitter and complete forgot what he was doing when he was starting, this will all just work itself out.

2007-06-28 09:08:28
40.   JoeyP
Luis Gonzalez was brought in to bridge the gap until Matt Kemp was ready.

Pierre in CF for the next 5yrs is what Ned is saying here. Someone must have given Kemp the "cant play CF" tag, and its going to hang with him forever.

2007-06-28 09:09:47
41.   Retire 55
The radio hosts really didn't ask Ned any questions about Pierre?
2007-06-28 09:09:48
42.   weatherman
38 - Gates kind of owns Microsoft. If McCourt was unfunny, I doubt he'd fire himself.
2007-06-28 09:10:25
43.   Bob Timmermann
1. Bill Gates owns Microsoft, so he can't really be fired.
2. Bill Gates made his stockholders wealthy.

Paul DePodesta neither owns the Dodgers or could demonstrably be shown to make the stockholders (i.e. the McCourts) a lot more money.

2007-06-28 09:10:59
44.   Eric Stephen
So overthrowing the cutoff man gets you benched, but not being able to hit the cutoff man on the fly with anything but a rainbow guarantees a starting spot?

Did Colletti address Pierre at all? I didn't get to listen.

2007-06-28 09:11:26
45.   Inside Baseball
In general: [buckle up]

"If we can get a real good starting pitcher [before the trading deadline], we would go for it. if we can get a real good middle reliever, a la a Billingsley, then we would go for that too."

Q: something along the lines of what the dodgers need to do to be be successful this year

A: "Add one more pitcher and have confidence in our offense. If our offense can't produce [more] in the next month then we'll have to add another hitter...We can't change everybody, hopefully we can rebound."

2007-06-28 09:13:09
46.   Inside Baseball
41, 44 No, not a single question or mention on Pierre.
2007-06-28 09:13:20
47.   Doctor

Gates also has an amazing track record of success. Its not like were talking about Bill Belecheck here.... Depo may have contributed to some good regular season records in a very weak AL West, but its that's far from a dynasty over there- ive never understood why anyone would be convinced that the way he looks at baseball is more correct than others. Yes, I read moneyball...

2007-06-28 09:14:56
48.   CanuckDodger
38 -- You are drawing an analogy between a pro sports organization and a computer software company? Uh, yeah. Geeks and jocks are birds of a feather, as we all know. DePo would fit in perfectly at Microsoft. Bill Gates couldn't run an MLB team any more than DePo could.
2007-06-28 09:15:02
49.   Humma Kavula
45 "a middle reliever, a la a Billingsley?"

"a middle reliever?"

Now Ned is talking crazy. He's just stringing words together and hoping that it sounds like English.

2007-06-28 09:15:30
50.   Inside Baseball
On Furcal:

"Furcal's ankle hasn't been right [since the spring training injury] and he won't sit down...He can still play a real good shortstop [with it].

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-06-28 09:16:16
51.   kngoworld
45 If our offense can't produce [more] in the next month then we'll have to add another hitter...We can't change everybody, hopefully we can rebound.


If we are a few games out of first place in a month, say goodbye to some young prospects to welcome in an expensive 3 month rental.

2007-06-28 09:16:17
52.   Eric Stephen
46 That's more frustrating than Pierre himself. The fact that management doesn't see JP as a problem, at least publicly, is very troubling.

And sure, Matt Kemp has missed some balls while hitting, but the ones he has hit have been hard! They're focusing on what he can't do instead of what he can do.

2007-06-28 09:16:42
53.   Inside Baseball
49 My worry is that he want to acquire a starter to return Billingsley to his 7th inning role. Kill two birds...
2007-06-28 09:17:30
54.   weatherman
50 - By "play" does he mean "imitate" or "mimic," like how Kevin Costner can play a real good post-apocalyptic Postman?
2007-06-28 09:18:03
55.   Eric Stephen
50 Was the tone on the Furcal quote more of:

a) Furcal doesn't want to sit
b) We won't ask Furcal to sit

2007-06-28 09:18:06
56.   Bluebleeder87

some how i'm not suprised Bill Gates got involved in the conversation:o) But seriously they both have there flaws & there high points.

2007-06-28 09:18:22
57.   Inside Baseball
52 He was still very high on Kemp, he just doesn't feel he's quite ready yet, disappointingly.
2007-06-28 09:20:16
58.   weatherman
57 - Well Kemp is certainly not worth a 5 year, $44 million contract, but hey, who is?
2007-06-28 09:20:33
59.   Inside Baseball
58 More (a) than (b) for sure. It sounded like they talked to him about it and he wants to play through it; thinks it will get better over time like his finger injury last year. I'm not sure an ankle can heal like that when you're playing everyday but oh well.
2007-06-28 09:21:06
60.   Inside Baseball
59 was in reference to 55
2007-06-28 09:21:38
61.   Bob Timmermann
I think we're all assuming that Bill Gates is shy and antisocial and I don't get that impression of him from his public appearances at all.

He might have been in his younger days, but it's pretty hard to run a company as big as Microsoft if you're just going to hide in your office all day.

2007-06-28 09:22:48
62.   regfairfield
47 Depending on what you mean by "looks at baseball" there's mathematical proof that a good team OPS leads to more runs.
2007-06-28 09:23:31
63.   Bluebleeder87
in the next month then we'll have to add another hitter

yeah that one kind of scared me, hopefully we won't give up the farm to get a rent-a-player.

2007-06-28 09:23:48
64.   Inside Baseball
On Kent:

"Jeff is 5 or 6 years older than Nomar...He [Kent] can't seem to get any loft on the ball...not to make excuses but he did foul the ball of his foot the other day....everybody goes through stretches...we're still in a transition phase of melding our young players with our veterans."

2007-06-28 09:23:50
65.   Eric Stephen
Billingsley's next four starts should be at home:

Sunday vs. Padres
7/6 vs. Florida
7/16 or 17 vs. Phi
7/21 or 7/22 vs NYM

I hope he does well, for his sake and the Dodgers sake so they don't bump him from the rotation or trade him.

Wouldn't it be something if Billingsley pitched an "interesting" game on Dodger Thoughts Day, securing his future with LA?

BTW, I am hoping my personal 8-game Dodger losing streak vs. SD (7 at Petco, 1 at Dodger Stadium) ends this Saturday in the Penny/Peavy game.

2007-06-28 09:26:24
66.   regfairfield
64 Difference is that Kent has hit well at various times during the season, unlike certain other players.
2007-06-28 09:27:23
67.   LogikReader
Why meld? I thought the team looked great for those couple of days when the lineup was mostly youngin's
2007-06-28 09:29:29
68.   still bevens
65 Thats ambitious, but on point. All Chad has to do is live up to his potential and Ned will shut up about another starter. Granted he's young, but he seemed onto something when he was mowing everyone down in May. I think once he gets stretched out he will worry less about his pitch count and focus more on getting people out.
2007-06-28 09:30:12
69.   Bob Timmermann
I don't believe I've seen the Dodgers win in person since July 4, 2006, an 11-3 win over the DBacks.

Which has helped me remember what I was doing last year on the 4th of July.

2007-06-28 09:32:03
70.   Humma Kavula
I do hope that 65 does not balance out 36.
2007-06-28 09:35:49
71.   jasonungar07
I just cant belive that Lowe has a better OBP than our 2 and 3 hole hitters (not 3 hole anymore, but for most of the season)

I really wished that Simers had said to Ned, does a .304 OBP constitute getting on base an "awful lot"

2007-06-28 09:35:55
72.   Bluebleeder87
one more thing Nomar struggling & learning a new position isn't a good mix they should have eased him into the position like some of us suggested during spring training, or at least played him there (3rd base) once in a while.
2007-06-28 09:36:12
73.   JoeyP

You are drawing an analogy between a pro sports organization and a computer software company?

My point is that business is business, and in all successful business all that matters is the bottomline. It doesnt matter how you interact at social functions, or if you give a good interview to the press---Its just the bottomline.

A GM's soul function to procure talent, allocate resources effectively, and build as good of team as can be expected given his financial resources he has to work with.

You dont have to be a jock to be a GM of a baseball team. How many actual GMs are jocks? Not many in baseball. Colletti never even played the game. He wrote about it--he's a public relations guy.

2007-06-28 09:39:56
74.   Eric Stephen
The one positive RE: Kemp is that if Gonzo was only brought in to bridge the gap to Kemp, then perhaps Colletti isn't looking to extend Gonzo.

If they trade for a hitter, it doesn't bode well for Kemp, or possibly Loney. If it's someone like Adam Dunn (would LaRoche & Ethier get it done?), then Kemp is blocked at least for 2007. If it's Teixeira (don't want to think of the cost), then Loney's most likely gone. To me, I still think they would go after a 3B (Rolen?) but only if Nomar doesn't come around. If they do get a 3B, I'm guessing 1B becomes a platoon of Loney and Nomar.

70 The one Dodger Stadium loss during my streak was 4+1 Eve, if that means anything. If history repeats itself, Dodgers lose 2-1 Saturday but comeback Sunday to beat the Pads. But a Sunday comeback means another bad Billingsley start. Blast!

2007-06-28 09:40:58
75.   Ricardo
After a bad start Blake DeWitt is now batting .292. I hope he gets promoted soon to AA, I was almost thinking that Blake would never reach the Majors. A link with an interview:
2007-06-28 09:44:24
76.   Eric Stephen
What's up with the weird start time today? A 4:30 local game in AZ seems odd. Why not a true getaway day time of 1:05? I guess I shouldn't complain; at least I will get to watch some of the game now.
2007-06-28 09:47:43
77.   Inside Baseball
From Ned's demeanor, I feel he really thought this team would be a run scoring machine. I think last year's success in scoring without much pop led him to expect more runs this year. I think he was thinking that Pierre is an upgrade over Lofton, Ethier and Nomar will hit like last year, Kent would be healthy and return to form, and that Betemit would be an improvement at 3b.

Still, with all of this and all of his comments, I think it's more likely he'll look to acquire a starting pitcher than hitter. Hopefully, Billingsley will have enough time time to settle in, Tsao will prove healthy and effective, and Ned will realize the best move (beyond looking to trade Hendrickson and Tomko for mid level prospects) is standing pat.

2007-06-28 09:48:53
78.   Felton

Juan Pierre .304
Nomar .306
Derek Lowe .306

Can Nomar pitch and let Derek play third?

I still enjoy Jon's article on DePodesta from the 2006 Hardball Times Annual.

2007-06-28 09:49:11
79.   Bob Timmermann
It's actually a 3:40 pm local time start for the DBacks. AZ and CA are on the same time during DST.

I assume the time was chosen as some sort of compromise since the Dodgers don't have a long flight home.

Besides, 3:40 pm is a BEAUTIFUL time of the day in Phoenix in late June!

2007-06-28 09:51:02
80.   bigcpa
74 Gonzalez is a major litmus test for Ned this offseason. It's a near repeat of Nomar 2006. I get the feeling if Gonzalez is instrumental in getting us into the playoffs and/or advancing in the playoffs then he's back. If we miss the playoffs there will be cover for Ned to "go a different direction" in GM speak.

Gonzalez' performance raises a question. When you sign a 39 yr old with OPS+ of 131, 119, 112, 97 and he puts up a 136, does that really make it a smart move? Any more than the 3-yr Schmidt deal is considered an unwise move? Just once I'd like to see a writer contemplate the wisdom of these signings at the time vs. 100% hindsight.

2007-06-28 09:51:18
81.   Telemachos
I found the portion of the Colletti interview I heard very disturbing... it felt like the only stat that meant anything to him was batting average; and the way he described Kemp was surreal ("swinging at a lot of stuff in the other batter's box"). And, while I can understand the frustation with Betemit, it was also surprising to hear him called the "most frustrating player, hands down". Really? Moreso than a $7.5 million #3 hitter who's OPSing less than a starting pitcher? Moreso than a $9 million leadoff hitter whose OBP is less than what many would expect a leadoff bitter's batting average would be?

But then again, I'm not sure if he just talks down to a general audience because that's talk radio... it's certainly easier to joke with the hosts and make a couple basic statements about the one stat that most casual fans know than it is to give a more nuanced examination.

2007-06-28 09:58:01
82.   Ben P
Here's my favorite Loney stat at the moment -- in 140 career at-bats he has 7 triples.

If he keeps this up, he will break the all-time career record at some point several years from now.

2007-06-28 09:59:40
83.   Rob M
Re: Kemp in CF - I love Kemp but he hasn't shown that he could be a passable center fielder. He's a great athlete and has a great arm, but he doesn't track balls very well. I don't think guys learn to become good CF's at this stage in their careers. From what I remember, fielding is a skill that starts declining at about age 23 or 24. I do think Kemp could be a good right fielder, and I suspect Ethier could play in center - he looks way more comfortable in the field than Kemp. If Ethier turned out to be an above average CF, then his averageness at the plate becomes a lot more attractive. Of course, that's only a small part of solving our problems at that position...
2007-06-28 10:03:32
84.   ryu
Career OBP

Juan Pierre .347
Nomar .364
Derek Lowe .191

2007-06-28 10:04:59
85.   underdog
Thanks for posting Colletti's comments here, IB! Was cool to hear since I couldn't get the radio station. I did appreciate his comments re: Betemit, and his forthrightness - though, I agree, Telemachos, I wouldn't call him the most frustrating player on the team. But certainly disappointing. Sounds like he said some true things, and some... odd things.

Looking forward to the game today - and it's good Nomar's getting a rest, though he should have had one yesterday given his numbers vs. Webb.

2007-06-28 10:05:18
86.   Bob Timmermann
For those wondering why Tony Pena didn't pitch last night, he was out because he had an infection in his leg drained this week. He should be available today.
2007-06-28 10:07:22
87.   Humma Kavula
84 Yes, of course. People are just having fun an picking on Pierre and Nomar because it's easy and they are hitting so poorly this year. Nobody is actually suggesting that Derek Lowe is a better hitter, in general, than Pierre or Nomar.

It's just shorthand for saying that Pierre and Garciaparra need to be benched.

2007-06-28 10:10:52
88.   LogikReader
I was running through emails and I ran into this note I sent to my buddy on November 21, 2006

"Juan Pierre signs w/ the Dodgers, 5 for 45 mil?

Remember how bad he was on my fantasy team last year? I had to cut him! He can't hit [censored] for beans, has no arm, has ZERO power, and doesn't even steal that many bases. Ned, what [censored] were you thinking??"

I still can't believe I wrote that.

2007-06-28 10:10:59
89.   ryu
Looking at the best career OBPs at, it's striking that the top seven were all left-handed batters. Only two of the top 15 were right-handed: Jimmie Foxx and Rogers Hornsby.


2007-06-28 10:13:55
90.   Bob Timmermann
Ahh, the predominance of right-handed pitchers and curve balls breaking the right way!
2007-06-28 10:14:03
91.   bhsportsguy
I don't think Ned's thoughts on Pierre have changed since the day he signed him, he has strengths (whatever few they may be) and he has weaknesses. After 6 or so years of playing nearly everyday, I don't think he thought he was going to become a much different player than what he is today.

So, to expect him to deride a player, who admittingly is down from his average performance, couldn't reach his career averages by years end by having a good second half.

If Kemp was projected to be a center fieleder, why didn't he play it all the time in the minors. Instead he played at the corner outfield spots. I would think if he could play CF, he would have been playing it in the minors in games that don't matter and he didn't.

2007-06-28 10:14:17
92.   Humma Kavula
88 When he was signed, my friend -- a Cubs fan -- sent me this message:

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

2007-06-28 10:21:22
93.   underdog
Cubs fans should tend to their own problems. For they are legend.

And I agree, I think most scouts seem to think that Kemp projects as a corner outfielder, than a CF - due to size/body type, route-running, all that. (Not that Pierre's route-running is anything the AAA will be putting in a map anytime soon.) It's not just random that they're not playing him there. I agree with the above that Ethier may actually be a more capable CFer than Kemp. Either of them would be better than Pierre overall, it's true.

2007-06-28 10:27:54
94.   Eric Stephen
88 Pierre doesn't steal that many bases? Really? I'm not usually one to defend Pierre, but c'mon.

From 2001 to present, Pierre has stolen 344 bases, most in the majors. The next closest to him is Ichiro, with 257.

Here are his NL rankings in SB during his career:

2001 - 1st
2002 - 2nd
2003 - 1st
2004 - 2nd
2005 - 2nd
2006 - 2nd

He currently ranks 2nd in SB in the NL in 2007.

2007-06-28 10:28:25
95.   Doctor

I believe Kemp did play some CF this year in Vegas, though he may have played more RF.


Ethier does look pretty good in the OF, but my guess is his extreme lack of speed would prevent him from playing CF.

Does anyone know if Ned's interview is avail as a podcast anywhere?

2007-06-28 10:29:48
96.   PHilldodger
81 Colletti has enough of a track record with public comments that it's pretty clear that he does value things like batting average above all else. Kemp and Betemit drive guys like Colletti nuts since they will look "bad" at times (striking out). It's been said by others in more eloquent fashion, but with Betemit/Kemp the fixation is on their weaknesses, when the weaknesses of other players are not ever mentioned.
2007-06-28 10:34:50
97.   bhsportsguy
95 Go to and click podcasting, then click AM570Shows, then you see RogginSimers 6/28 Hour 3.

96 I don't care if you are OPSing 1.000 if you are barely hitting over .200 that is going to matter.

Someone wrote about Matt Kemp that he has a lot of Derrick Lee in him, once he gets settled in and his swing becomes a little more compact, watch out. It is just going to take some time.

2007-06-28 10:35:09
98.   Eric Stephen
95 The KLAC podcasts are here, but the Colletti interview is not up yet. Plus, I'm not sure how often they update this page.

2007-06-28 10:35:14
99.   ryu
90 Among the top-15 leaders in career batting average, the lefty dominance isn't as pronounced: five are right-handed.

Among active players, however, only three of the top 15 bat strictly left-handed (not counting switch hitters).

2007-06-28 10:36:06
100.   Telemachos
I think it's also clear that Colletti really doesn't like strikeouts... he prefers contact hitters. Thus his like for Pierre and, despite recent events, Nomar and his frustration with Betemit, Kemp, etc.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-06-28 10:37:23
101.   Eric Stephen
95 Ignore my post in 98. Here is the direct link mentioned in 97:

2007-06-28 10:41:21
102.   Humma Kavula
97 Matter? Sure, it matters.

It just matters a whole lot less than OPSing 650 or whatever.

2007-06-28 10:41:22
103.   Bluebleeder87
Someone wrote about Matt Kemp that he has a lot of Derrick Lee in him, once he gets settled in and his swing becomes a little more compact, watch out. It is just going to take some time.

Great caparison & analogy & like must of us know, once he lays of those breaking pitches away the skies the limit with this kid.

2007-06-28 10:41:33
104.   JoeyP
91- I was under the impression Kemp played CF all through the minor leagues. But it doesnt specify on thebaseballcube.

Kemp did play in 29games/19starts in CF last year for the Dodgers. He might not be great at tracking balls, but Kemp's value isnt as a defensive player. Its that he's a great offensive one, and considering his strong arm---would he really be that bad of CF'er?

Worse than Pierre for 5years?

If the Dodgers are signing Andruw Jones to play CF--ok move Kemp to LF/Rf. But Juan Pierre? Its insanity.

2007-06-28 10:42:48
105.   Inside Baseball
101 It's 19 minutes into the podcast.
2007-06-28 10:53:26
106.   bhsportsguy
104 This just seems to be a debate that is not winnable because Pierre isn't going anywhere so to say should Kemp should be playing CF just seems pointless.
2007-06-28 10:57:47
107.   Eric Stephen
106 I agree that Pierre isn't going anywhere, but I think it's not out of the question for him to be rested at least once a week. Pierre on the bench is like a can of Emerald Nuts, one a week is all we ask.

I'm not saying Kemp has have to play everyday but the rigidity of never giving Pierre a day off seems to be part of the problem.

2007-06-28 10:58:17
108.   Doctor

I don't think we know that. Yes, it took longer than we wanted, but Nomar was moved to third (even after mgt admitted they were worried that might result in injury) to make room for Loney, Tomdrickson were moved to the pen to make room for Bill's. While Pierre's contract is unfortunate, there is some degree of hope that management will eventually play the best team possible.

2007-06-28 11:01:51
109.   Eric Stephen
107 I realize Emerald Nuts is a sponsor of the Giants, so maybe that was a poor analogy.
2007-06-28 11:04:18
110.   JoeyP
I think it's also clear that Colletti really doesn't like strikeouts... he prefers contact hitters.

I agree. The Dodgers as a team strikeout fewer than anyone in the league. However, they are also near last in homers, and down in the bottom 3rd of runs.

2007-06-28 11:05:05
111.   dsfan
Kemp was primarily a corner OF in the minors, as I recall, though he saw a lot of time in CF this year.

He doesn't profile as an everyday CF.

2007-06-28 11:07:33
112.   Doctor

So trade Pierre to the Giants, brilliant!

2007-06-28 11:07:54
113.   Greg Brock
I believe it was the fine folks at Blue Diamond that asked for a can a week.
2007-06-28 11:08:33
114.   schoffle

Maybe you should do the math for you before you say that you "don't care if you are OPSing 1.000 if you are barely hitting over .200 that is going to matter"

With my very limited math skills, assuming that your .200 hitter has a .300 on base percent, he would need to average a home run at rate of around than once every six at bats in order to have that 1000 OPS. I am fairly sure that few managers would care that this player had only a .200 batting ave.

2007-06-28 11:12:45
115.   bigcpa
110 Unfortunately last year's team only reinforced his high avg, low k's philosophy. We were 8th in the majors in AVG and 10th in runs/game. Meanwhile Boston scored the identical 820 runs ranking 15th in AVG. Last year there was a 45% correlation between avg and runs, 73% for SLG and 87% for OPS. As usual there was a 0% correlation between K's and runs.
2007-06-28 11:13:18
116.   Bob Timmermann
2007-06-28 11:15:18
117.   Eric Stephen
Everybody knows Mastodons taste like chicken.
2007-06-28 11:17:54
118.   bhsportsguy
114 I violated the hyperbole and sarcasm rules in one post but the point is that Betemit certainly has the talent to hit major league pitching over the wall with balls just jumping off his bat.

But his high OPS is not going to matter if he can't even hit .250, I'm not asking him to become Pujols but he is going certainly have to do better than hover around .200 if he is going to get regular time.

Unfortunately, he has probably reached the point of having to get hits during those few times that he starts because they are not going to pencil his name in the lineup everyday for him at this time.

2007-06-28 11:22:36
119.   Eric Stephen
2007-06-28 11:23:06
120.   fanerman
Thinking about possible moves causes my heart rate to skyrocket.
2007-06-28 11:23:48
121.   MC Safety
im kind of new here, but adam laroche is a triple away from the cycle. has anyone looked at his splits this year, he his hitting lefty's way better....
2007-06-28 11:24:13
122.   ToyCannon
I hate to say this but Magglio Ordonez should be getting tested everyday. His numbers are absurd. I'd love to pull out those old BP articles that made fun of that contract.
2007-06-28 11:25:19
123.   Inside Baseball
My guess for today's lineup:

Furcal, SS
Pierre, CF
Gonzo, LF
Kent, 2B
Loney, 1B
Kemp, RF
Lieberthal, C
Abreu, 3B
Wolf, P

2007-06-28 11:25:52
124.   Bob Timmermann
Drug test?
Or perhaps an SAT?

I hear Magglio really stinks at antonyms.

2007-06-28 11:26:25
125.   regfairfield
122 How often does a long term contract go from "complete joke" to "totally justifiable" in it's third year.
2007-06-28 11:29:00
126.   underdog
Quite a busy sports afternoon this will be. The Dodger game at 3:40, the NBA Draft, the Copa America (US thrown to the wolves vs Argentina), and I have a soccer game at 6. TiVo, you're my friend.
2007-06-28 11:30:36
127.   trainwreck
They are remaking Jacob's Ladder, this is an outrage!
2007-06-28 11:32:48
128.   Bob Timmermann
We are..
We are..
Remaking ..
Remaking ..
Jacob's Ladder
We are..
We are..
Jacob's Ladder..

Kind of hard to express the melody and timing in this way.

2007-06-28 11:32:50
129.   Greg Brock
The new centerfielder can't hit
He hardly, if ever, will sit
But it can't touch the horror
Of Garciaparra
Whose bat is now worse than his mitt
2007-06-28 11:33:15
130.   bigcpa
127 That's an underrated classic right there. The ending sailed right over my head as a teenager. Had to have someone explain it to me.
2007-06-28 11:33:35
131.   Greg Brock
The urge to end that with a rule 1 violation was...strong.
2007-06-28 11:35:29
132.   Eric Stephen
131 At least Nomar or Pierre are not from Nantucket.
2007-06-28 11:36:51
133.   Eric Stephen
123 I don't think Martin will sit until at least Sunday.
2007-06-28 11:39:48
134.   jasonungar07
Why wouldnt we put Pierre at leadoff? At least he can run.
2007-06-28 11:40:12
135.   Penarol1916
126. Where is the Copa game going to be played? If it is in the lowlands like Maracaibo, the US has a chance, based primarily on the fact that Argentina, like Uruguay, struggles in the high humidity of Venezuelas lowlands.
2007-06-28 11:40:27
136.   regfairfield
134 Because he is a poor hitter.
2007-06-28 11:43:10
137.   schoffle
I certainly agree that it is unfortunate that Betemit will probably be relegated to the bench. At the same time I cannot understand why you seem to hold batting ave in such high esteem. In the hierarchy of stats that measure offensive production OPS is way above batting ave.

If you were comparing two players who have similar OPS stats then possibly you could use batting ave as a tie breaker. However if one of the players had a significantly better OPS, batting ave should not matter.

2007-06-28 11:43:34
138.   Inside Baseball
133 Yeah, it was a tough call. Had they won last night, I think he would have for sure. I think after the three K's, Grady will give him some rest before the Padre series, and play him every game this weekend. Just a hunch.
2007-06-28 11:43:43
139.   Bob Timmermann
The match will be in Maracaibo.
2007-06-28 11:43:50
140.   Hallux Valgus
135 Maracaibo

Unfortunately, I don't think any strikers struggle against our back line, and Argentina has Tevez, Messi, and Crespo.

2007-06-28 11:44:11
141.   ToyCannon
As opposed to the current leadoff man who's only poor when playing in the months of April-June for the Dodgers.
2007-06-28 11:47:38
142.   regfairfield
141 At least he has a league average on base percentage.
2007-06-28 11:48:24
143.   jasonungar07
Is he less poor in the 2 hole. I dont get that. May as well utilize what he can do, steal bases. At least furcal might hit it out of the infield to push him from first to third as oppossed to a force play at 2b.

I agree he is a poor hitter. I agree if he plays he should hit 8th. I agree he shouldn't be on the field.

But he is, so...

2007-06-28 11:49:56
144.   Bob Timmermann
At AZ Snakepit, Jim McLennan mentions that the Dodgers batted 40 times last night and only four times did they not have someone come to bat as the potential tying or go-ahead run.

Three of those were in the 9th.

2007-06-28 11:56:37
145.   Eric Stephen
138 I just don't think Russ will set against a lefty, even if it's Big Unit, as Martin has hit .359/.444/.565 vs LHP in his short career.
2007-06-28 11:58:03
146.   Inside Baseball
You're probably right.
2007-06-28 11:58:34
147.   Penarol1916
140. All I'm saying is that Argentina and Uruguay tend to have trouble staying fit in the humidity. If the US has as big an advantage in fitness as they have always been reputed to, then they have a chance.
2007-06-28 12:04:18
148.   underdog
147 I think the US has a shot against some of the other teams but about none vs. Argentina. (I'll happily be proven wrong though!) Partially because Argentina is playing with their best players, and the US is missing some of theirs, playing quite a few inexperienced guys (and even then I don't know if they could beat Argentina). Some definite talent with those inexperienced Americans but they may not be quite ready for prime time. We'll see, I hope they make a show of it.
2007-06-28 12:04:57
149.   ToyCannon
Only when an injury has been involved. Mag did miss time in the 1st year of the contract but it was not the knee that had surgery. His turnaround from the 1st year of the deal is just about unprecedented at age 33. He did have a nice run from age 26-29 with 4 EQA's above 300 with a top of 322 at age 28. At age 33 he's putting up an EQA of 368. Whatever he's doing, he should be sharing with another 33 I know of.
2007-06-28 12:06:21
150.   ToyCannon
Russ has built up numbers based on his abuse of LHP. He is not sitting today. Put him at 3b if you need to.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-06-28 12:15:22
151.   Hallux Valgus
147 Here's to hoping! I'll take any bit of optimism I can find.
2007-06-28 12:18:38
152.   Hallux Valgus
Frank Thomas got 500.
2007-06-28 12:21:25
153.   Gen3Blue
I couldn't help but notice the Raptors played an unusually efficient game yesterday. No records, but interesting.
They scored 8 runs on 6 hits! there was one homerun but no one was on base. From what I could glean fron the box, Ogden had 6 hits, 2bb, one hit batter, and one guy reach on a throwing error for 10 base runners. The result was 8 runs and 2 left on base. I hope the D's are due a game like this.
2007-06-28 12:22:22
154.   Eric Stephen
152 CoughGriddleCough
2007-06-28 12:31:18
155.   underdog
Today's lineup, as per ItD: (Kemp's in!)
Furcal, SS

Pierre, CF

Martin, C

Kent, 2B

Gonzalez, LF

Kemp, RF

Loney, 1B (batting .500 on the year - 19-for-38)

Abreu, 3B

Wolf, P

2007-06-28 12:32:05
156.   underdog
Would be nice to see Kent do something today...
2007-06-28 12:35:16
157.   ToyCannon
I like our chances against Randy's 1st start off the DL.
2007-06-28 12:35:29
158.   Bob Timmermann
I predict Kent will do something today. After all, he's playing. He has to do something.
2007-06-28 12:36:41
159.   underdog
Sorry, I meant something worthwhile, positive, you know... As opposed to just sort of standing there. I prefer our clean-up hitter do more than a ficus tree would were a ficus tree in the batter's box.
2007-06-28 12:41:34
160.   Terry A
Jeff Kent is no ficus tree.

A persimmon tree, yes. A sycamore, possibly.

But a ficus is just insulting.

2007-06-28 12:42:35
161.   Doctor

We can bunt him to death (actually probably not a bad idea today).

2007-06-28 12:45:47
162.   bigcpa
Tracy would have started Saenz. I'd like to see Loney add Unit to his list of marquee lefties owned with Wagner and Kazmir.
2007-06-28 12:47:03
163.   underdog
160 Sorry. How about a cactus? He's a Texan and all.

161 "Juan, you have your marching orders for the day."

2007-06-28 12:48:28
164.   Terry A

Yes. A cactus will suffice. Aloe vera is also acceptable.

2007-06-28 12:53:29
165.   ToyCannon
Maybe Nomar is a ficus tree. We had 3 ficus tree's freeze and die this winter and maybe that is what happened to Nomar.
2007-06-28 12:54:00
166.   GobiasIndustries
Is your real name Jackie Mason? Always with the one-liners....
2007-06-28 12:54:52
167.   underdog
It really is amazing how much inspiring the bottom of the line-up is vs the top half, particularly today. Wow. But at least Nomar's getting a rest.

Off topic, but has anyone done this?

I'm not scientist but mine didn't seem accurate - I ended up in the southern Indian ocean.

2007-06-28 12:55:40
168.   underdog
"how much more inspiring" I meant, of course.
2007-06-28 12:56:25
169.   ToyCannon
JP is an ash tree. Grows fast and is hard to get rid of.
2007-06-28 12:57:03
170.   El Lay Dave
155 As I predicted in the last thread, 538 modified by 545, but there was a lot of telegraphing of that lineup by Grady.
2007-06-28 12:58:56
171.   MC Safety
i would compare JP to a jacaranda tree. i dont have any clever explanantion, but they are both just annoying.
2007-06-28 13:00:07
172.   confucius
They are talking about Loney on ESPNews right now. They're fantasy expert says he'll hit .310 to .320 with 20-25 homeruns in his prime. He compared him to Sean Casey while he was in his prime.
2007-06-28 13:00:22
173.   El Lay Dave
From reading the excerpts in this thread, I judge Ned Colletti to be a bit of a rule 6 violator.

My question is, if that's Ned's opinion of Kemp, doesn't Matt need to be playing somewhere in order to get better? Why's he with the big club if he isn't going to play more than once or twice a week?

2007-06-28 13:01:11
174.   Bob Timmermann
I think of myself as more of a Jan Murray type.
2007-06-28 13:02:28
175.   confucius
I hate the phrase "in his prime" it's completely relative.
2007-06-28 13:02:45
176.   silverwidow

Ned's favorite stats.

2007-06-28 13:03:07
177.   Tangled Up in Blue
If batting avg is so important to Ned than Kemp should play everyday.

There is a double standard in letting Nomar work through his struggles by playing everyday and benching Betemit for low batting avg and Kemp for swinging at breaking balls.

The more I hear Colletti talk the more I realize I am not a believer in what he values in players and how he puts together a team.

2007-06-28 13:03:52
178.   MC Safety
174- at first glance i thought i missed some kind of obscure airwolf referance, than realized that was jan michael vincent, and he wasnt that funny from what i remember, rather stoic to be precise.
2007-06-28 13:05:36
179.   confucius
176 He's a big fantasy baseball guy.
2007-06-28 13:05:53
180.   MC Safety
anyone catch the simpsons last night at 11?
2007-06-28 13:05:59
181.   jtrichey
Bob Timmerman, got a few questions that I don't think even you will be able to answer.
1. How many times have the Dodgers gone from 1st place to third place in the span of one game this year, and what is the record for that?
2. How many times in the 2000s have the Dogers successfully executed a sac bunt with runners on 1st and 2nd? It seems that LA does this correctly about 3% of the time they attempt it, which has led to me missing several ragged chunks of hair.
2007-06-28 13:06:26
182.   El Lay Dave
172 I'm not sure what Casey's "prime" is exactly, but his two peak years were 1999 and 2004, with OPS+ 136 and 142, respectively. '01 and '02 he was in the mid-to-high 110s.
2007-06-28 13:08:45
183.   MC Safety
there is a girl golfer named lincicome. are these lincicomes and lincecums foreign to earth or just the USA?
2007-06-28 13:09:18
184.   GobiasIndustries
2007-06-28 13:12:29
185.   MC Safety
172,182- i sent nate ravitz a question the other morning regarding him ranking these players in this order for long term. jeremy hermida, josh fields and then yes indeed james loney. go check the espn chat archives from tuesday i believe. i was stunned. matthew berry offered similar thoughts when defending nate as well.
2007-06-28 13:14:49
186.   Terry A
James Loney is the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
2007-06-28 13:15:27
187.   MC Safety
here you guys go if you are interested and havent already read this nonsense:
2007-06-28 13:18:32
188.   FirstMohican
167 - Fun... I would like to see - for whatever reason - what %age of the earths surface would result in a hole from land to land.
2007-06-28 13:19:23
189.   Eric Enders
181 The Dodgers have successfully sacrificed with runners on first and second 91 times in the 2000s, three times this year.
2007-06-28 13:21:49
190.   El Lay Dave
187 Well, that's rankings for long-term in fantasy baseball, but I don't think they're way off base or anything. If Loney has several season as good as Ravitz predicted (.320 / ~20 HRs), I'd be pretty darn satisfied. Earlier this season we were happy with Mark Grace comparisons.
2007-06-28 13:22:08
191.   underdog
187 I found this gem even dumber: "I would take Wells straight up for Penny (injury history), but I also think you might be able to do better." (Fantasy baseball, of course, but still...Yes, I think he could do better.)
2007-06-28 13:23:00
192.   dzzrtRatt
Here's professional sports broadcaster John Ireland on what the Dodgers need, from his blog on the website:

"The Dodgers should trade for Troy Glaus. I would say the same thing about the Angels, but they never make in-season trades. I don't care which young players the Blue Jays want, I would do it. The Dodgers just don't have enough pop in their line-up. If Toronto asked for LaRoche, Billingsley and Kemp...I would pull the trigger."

(emphasis mine.)

I wouldn't mind getting Glaus. At least he doesn't block Kemp, and the player(s) he would block are not as crucial (plus, his frequent trips to the DL would leave them with lots of playing time.) But if anyone Colletti listens to actually thinks that would be reasonable to trade Billingsley AND Kemp AND LaRoche to get him...

2007-06-28 13:23:53
193.   confucius
I wouldn't bunt with runners on first and second. Unless the third baseman fields it it won't work. It seems to be a high risk low reward play.
2007-06-28 13:24:04
194.   underdog
So is the Copa America on any non-Spanish network tonight? Though it might be fun to watch these in Spanish, actually...

But I'm surprised FSC isn't covering it.

2007-06-28 13:27:00
195.   Eric Enders
193 We have attempted it 10 times this year and succeeded three. The other seven times the lead runner was thrown out.

One of those seven times was last night with Lowe batting. I actually didn't mind that one because at least it spared us the fate of him hitting into a double play against groundball god Webb.

2007-06-28 13:27:49
196.   dzzrtRatt
167 What's hilarious about that site are the Google ads, which are all about whether Hell is a real place.
2007-06-28 13:30:44
197.   natepurcell
If Toronto asked for LaRoche, Billingsley and Kemp...I would pull the trigger.

this guy...ugh

2007-06-28 13:32:17
198.   confucius
I wonder how many teams are that interested in Laroche. Simply becasue he has been having trouble with his shoulders. I would assume that teams are asking for a combination of Loney, Kemp and Billingsley.
2007-06-28 13:36:52
199.   MC Safety
190, 191-umm i guess i just took offense to him being ranked behind josh fields who is an absolute strikeout machine. yes it is fantasy but that was silly, hermida has pop but has had trouble staying healthy. ah well i just took it as a mets fan ignoring excellence. i know one thing james is looking better than carlos delgado right now..
2007-06-28 13:38:56
200.   silverwidow
Yeah, let's get rid of our best young starter, our only young right handed power bat, and let's move Nomar back to first.

Stupid, stupid stuff.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-06-28 13:39:08
201.   MC Safety
john ireland must have eaten to many paintchips when he was a kid....AND kemp. yikes. listening to that guy on espn radio is so bad.....thank goodness for petros and matt money smith.
2007-06-28 13:39:54
202.   Hallux Valgus
194 Despite the name, GolTV broadcasts in English.
2007-06-28 13:41:59
203.   jasonungar07
For all that may as well call Texas back and get Texiera anf Gagne. LOL.
2007-06-28 13:42:18
204.   still bevens
I loved how those espn dudes didn't understand why Coletti didnt want to talk about Kobe. Why would he want to talk about Kobe?
2007-06-28 13:46:59
205.   MC Safety
more of nate's rumblings:
2007-06-28 13:47:31
206.   El Lay Dave
199 Loney looks better than everyone except Babe Ruth right now. ;)

Obviously he's hot and it won't last, but it is fun. BTW, Sean Casey had three .900+ OPS seasons (99, 00 and 04, hinted at in 182. Several of those from Loney is just fine by me.

182 should be "'00 and '01".

2007-06-28 13:50:17
207.   confucius
204 That was John Ireland's show. All they know or care about is basketball.
2007-06-28 13:53:50
208.   ToyCannon
Considering the size of Irland's forehead you would think he'd be packing a bit more brain mass then the rest of us but alas it must be skeletal.
2007-06-28 13:54:14
209.   Telemachos
I wouldn't put any thought into what fantasy guys say, in terms of trades, who's better than who, etc. Fantasy baseball bears only a faint resemblence to actual baseball -- steals are highly overvalued, defense isn't taken into account, plus individual leagues could have all sorts of weird stats (or lack of weird stats). Penny is a solid fantasy starter, but Vernon Wells is a strong fantasy player (normally), so I understand the reasoning behind that (theorical) trade.
2007-06-28 13:56:33
210.   ToyCannon
Considering the size of Glaus's contract and his health this year you would think a Betemit would be enough. Anymore then that is not worth the risk since were not in the DH league and 1st base is now occupied.
2007-06-28 13:56:36
211.   Dodgers49
Okay, call me a dreamer, but I still expect the Dodgers to win 3 of 4 from the D-Backs and 2 of 3 from San Diego. :-) With Johnson coming off the DL I consider today's game winnable if we just get one of Wolf's good games. And I expect both Kuo and Billingsley to step up against San Diego so only Bob's 10 to 9 game on Saturday is questionable.
2007-06-28 13:57:22
212.   fanerman
I hate how media talking heads care more about names than they care about actual production.
2007-06-28 14:00:55
213.   ToyCannon
I'd trade Penny for Wells in the real world. Wells is overrated and overpaid but he is a CF who can run, hit, hit with power, throw and Penny is an average pitcher whose had a great 1st half and rarely have average pitchers ever combined a great 1st half with a great 2nd half. Maybe this is his Steve Stone year but I'd still rather have Vernon Wells.
2007-06-28 14:04:58
214.   DXMachina
Heh, for a moment I thought you guys were talking about David Wells. I was very confused.
2007-06-28 14:05:32
215.   confucius
211 Dreamer.
2007-06-28 14:08:11
216.   confucius
213 I wouldn't. Maybe if Schmidt was healthy and pitching well. The Dodgers are unbelievable when Penny pitches and below .500 when he doesn't. I don't know if Vernon Wells alone would be able to turn that around.
2007-06-28 14:08:52
217.   El Lay Dave
214 Well, I knew it wasn't Kip Wells.
2007-06-28 14:09:42
218.   ryu
208 Ouch, what's with the hate? I find him an well-spoken, easy-to-listen-to guy. Not bad for a radio guy.
2007-06-28 14:10:13
219.   Jonny6
RE: 169, 171

JP is definitely more like a jacaranda than an ash; let me expound upon the botanical comparisons. Jacarandas are scraggly, skinny, and rather pathetic looking most of the year. For a couple of weeks out of the year they look great, and you may find yourself unreasonably drawn to them, thinking "wow, those purple trees are cool". But as soon as you have one on your own property, you realize they're awful - they look crappy most of the season, provide no shade, and even when they look good they're a total mess. In a nutshell, they are the perfect tree for your neighbor to have but you should avoid them like poison oak.

2007-06-28 14:13:29
220.   regfairfield
216 The Dodgers won't be when Penny starts inevitably regressing to the mean. The man is a good pitcher, no doubt about it, but he's not the best pitcher in the NL.
2007-06-28 14:17:27
221.   El Lay Dave
220 Beat me to it!

Penny Similarity Scores through Age 28 (that is through the end of last season):

Ben McDonald (974)
Jaime Navarro (972)
Pedro Astacio (972)
Len Barker (963)
Vicente Padilla (963)
Joey Hamilton (962)
Moose Haas (960)
Chuck Dobson (958)
Freddy Garcia (957)
Randy Wolf (955)

I'm enjoying the ride, and maybe it lasts all season, but over time, Penny is not likely to continue getting "ace" results. (Although there is a small chance something significant has changed.)

2007-06-28 14:18:19
222.   underdog
219 Well done!
But yes to the Kent as cactus analogy? Or is there a plant with a 70s moustache?
2007-06-28 14:19:24
223.   confucius
220 True. They're not going to win 29 of his 34 starts. I'd still keep him around though. I don't see him falling off the Earth like he did in the second half of last season and going 6-7. I think if he starts to struggle Grady will rest him and a collapse will be averted.
2007-06-28 14:23:37
224.   regfairfield
221 Nothing really has. His strikeouts are down, his walks are up, and he's simply just not allowing many bombs despite the flyballs he allows. Much like last year, that's due to regress, and when it does, he'll have a less than impressive second half.
2007-06-28 14:24:08
225.   Jonny6
Yea, the cactus analogy seems to suit Kent pretty well. He's slow moving, prickly, a little unsightly, but somehow still a bit endearing and revered. Do you think Kent requires minimal water as well?
2007-06-28 14:24:50
226.   Retire 55
How many years will we have to put up with Pierre's putrid OBP at or near the top of the lineup? When does the lack of production outweigh Ned's vanity?

My fear is that he'll be there as long as he's hitting .270.

2007-06-28 14:25:22
227.   Lexinthedena
220- Wow....I'm a lot more optimistic than some of you about Penny....He has always been talented enough to be a front line starter, and has had years that were very good, but injury has usually upset what would have been good years...It seems like you are basing everything on last year....He may not stay at this level, but I expect him to be at least at the tear of a Derek Lowe for years to come...
2007-06-28 14:34:39
228.   Retire 55
I think Penny's greatness is here to stay for awhile.
2007-06-28 14:39:02
229.   underdog
Jon has a new post up top for the game, if you're interested.
2007-06-28 14:39:52
230.   kadycee
Someone sent me this link. Just wanted to share. Some fun remembering the good old days...

2007-06-28 14:40:24
231.   Lexinthedena
226-I can't imagine Pierre being our starting CF next year....I still can not wrap my head around his signing...With Ichiro on the market, and L.A making so much sense from a business and baseball standpoint, I believe(or at least want to believe) that Pierre will be moved and Ichiro signed....

Please tell me I'm right...

2007-06-28 14:42:05
232.   ToyCannon
Not really basing it on 2006 collapse but his splits over the last 3 year are:
April - 2.62
May - 2.72
June - 4.11
July - 4.15
Aug- 4.54
Sept - 5.86

Notice the trend. This does not include 2007 data. He barely pitched in 2004 in Aug/Sept due to the nerve injury so those ERA's are mostly from 2005/2006. And again he barely pitched in 2005 in Sept due to shoulder problems so that ERA is mostly from his 2006 work. So you have a guy who seems to fade in the 2nd half or doesn't pitch in the 2nd half due to injury. Either way he's not the guy I'm betting on to change his spots and be an ace in the 2nd half. I wouldn't trade him but someone didn't think Vernon Wells is enough for Penny in the real world and I think it is for these reasons. I have no faith that Penney will either be effective or healthy enough to offset the steady offensive production of someone like Vernon Wells who I only consider a good player not a great player.

2007-06-28 14:44:02
233.   regfairfield
228 I'd be more comfortable with that assertion if he was actually striking people out more often, or even walking people less. As it stands, he's simply living off a very low outfield fly to home run ratio, and eventually that's going to bit him.
2007-06-28 14:44:56
234.   MC Safety
219- well put. thanks for elaborating. those dang trees. i especially loved the part about loving them until you have one on your property. that was my precise outlook towards juan pierre.
222- did you ever have a pet rock that you made a moustache on? i did. but it was a darker more tom selleck-ish style.
2007-06-28 14:45:07
235.   ToyCannon
Your right.
2007-06-28 14:46:20
236.   MC Safety
225- and every once in a while a flower will blossom representing him actually getting a hit.
2007-06-28 14:47:10
237.   underdog
230 I always loved that one. It's like an epic poem, told in Lego.

I just rewatched that Simpsons where they go to a parody of Legoland, and the two characters in Lego suits get stuck to each other. Classic moment.

2007-06-28 14:48:49
238.   El Lay Dave
229 ?? I don't see that.
2007-06-28 14:50:54
239.   Lexinthedena
235- Thanks.....:)

As for Penny, like we both pointed out, Injury has been the main culprit...I don't know if he will stay healthy, but if he does, I don't foresee a collapse....definitely not this level of dominance, but I would be surprised if he has a repeat of last year....we all see the difference in his approach no?

2007-06-28 14:52:10
240.   ToyCannon
I think Juan Pierre and Ned will try my patience as a Dodger fan about as much as the Gary Sheffield/Kevin Brown years did. At my age I hate to think I have to wait 5 years for this to resolve itself but the real problem is that the man who made the signing could do something this bad every winter. Or he could learn from his mistakes, if he recognizes it was a mistake. As much as I'd like to believe that Ned realizes he made a mistake I don't think he does.
Good thing I have the Angels to fall back on.
2007-06-28 14:52:28
241.   El Lay Dave
238 Ah, I see a new post titled "vs. Randy" in the sidebar, but not on the main Dodger Thoughts page.
2007-06-28 14:52:53
242.   kadycee
237. LOL. Yes. A chapter in the long Saga of the Dodgers, in which Legos are only slightly more daffy.
2007-06-28 14:56:43
243.   kadycee
228. Me too.
2007-06-28 14:57:44
244.   El Lay Dave
Jon's new post is here:
2007-06-28 14:58:27
245.   trainwreck
At least Kevin Brown was good when we signed him.
2007-06-28 15:00:50
246.   underdog
240 But in fairness, hasn't Colletti sometimes shown a willingness to learn from his mistakes? Granted, I wish he hadn't made as many of them, but... Hey, at least he quickly traded Baez away when it was apparent how terrible he was. And maybe this more on Little, but not trading players like Loney and Kemp (knock on wood) and then calling them up and then playing them when the vets have clearly stunk it up, a little credit for that? With Pierre I don't know how long it would take for him to realize it was a mistake, given the length of the contract, but if Pierre continues to play even below his expectations, I could see Colletti (next year not this) exploring a trade.
2007-06-28 15:01:40
247.   underdog
Yeah, it's weird, I dunno why the post shows up on sidebar but not above... Ken? Jon? Bueller?
2007-06-28 15:05:07
248.   GoBears
I don't want Ichiro. 4 years ago maybe, but he's a sprained ankle away from being Juan Pierre, and he'll cost twice as much. Same game, just better at it. Not interested.

At the same contract, sure, I'd take Ichiro over Pierre. But I don't think he'll provide better value.

2007-06-28 15:07:45
249.   dzzrtRatt
218 No hate for Ireland. Stunned amazement is more like it, in that he proposes the Dodgers trade Kemp AND Billingsley AND LaRoche if that's what it takes to get Troy Glaus.
2007-06-28 15:14:50
250.   Andrew Shimmin
240- Exactly. Perfectly said.

246- He traded Baez away on July 28th of last year. So, not so quickly.

If this nonsense about Betemit being the greatest frustration on the team is just a poker face so he doesn't degrade Pierre's value further (to the extent that that's even possible), fine; I can get over being lied to, and treated like a moron by the GM if there's a reason for it. But if he actually thinks Betemit is a bigger problem than Nomar or Pierre, then he needs to get a different job. Even Logan White can't bail out a team whose GM thinks Pierre is good at baseball.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-06-28 15:20:48
251.   underdog
I agree with that, I still can't believe he'd consider Betemit the team's top frustration. Again, I can understand him calling it a frustration, but how can you not call out Pierre, for all the money and years behind it... Maybe it's just his expectations weren't that high? Seems a little twisted. But there is some diplomacy or PR finagling here. It's easier to call out Betemit than it is Pierre, given the investment in the latter. But still. When I fantasize I explain it away as him wanting to trade Pierre and not wanting other teams to "realize" how mediocre he is.

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