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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Be Kind - Rewind
2007-07-15 11:23
by Jon Weisman

Today's game:


Retro Gameday

Comments (575)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-07-15 11:28:19
1.   Lexinthedena
I know I've dogged Wilson all year...but Lefty or not, how can Grady sit a guy two straight times after 3+ hit, multiple RBI games....

I'm hoping that Betimit will get the Loney treatment soon...

2007-07-15 11:33:13
2.   Eric Stephen
Is the title of this post an homage to perhaps a Blockbuster™ deal is in the works?
2007-07-15 11:35:07
3.   Jon Weisman
2 - It's open to multiple interpretations - rewind so we get another victory, rewind to the days that Brett Tomko was pitching better.

Most of all, it hits me that my kids will have no idea what "rewinding" is when they grow up.

2007-07-15 11:36:24
4.   D4P
how can Grady sit a guy two straight times after 3+ hit, multiple RBI games

Because Nomar is a better hitter vs. LH.

Or not.

2007 vs. LH:

Betemit: .231/.286/.385/.670
Nomar: .200/.290/.255/.545

2007-07-15 11:36:45
5.   Eric Stephen
3 Very David Chase of you.
2007-07-15 11:37:42
6.   Bob Timmermann
Three years ago on Christmas, one of my brothers was given a DVD player. He had never used one. When the DVD was over, he looked for the rewind button.

This story has become legendary in our family.

2007-07-15 11:38:55
7.   Eric Stephen
I don't have a problem sitting Betemit against LHP. He should play more against RHP though.
2007-07-15 11:40:55
8.   Lexinthedena
7. It seems like Wilson has improved as of late against righties....correct me if I'm wrong....
2007-07-15 11:41:09
9.   Bob Timmermann
The Royals are having a hard time signing Mike Moutsakas.
2007-07-15 11:42:02
10.   Lexinthedena
6- Don't DVD players have rewind buttons? Or at least rewind knobs....the feature just isn't iconic like it once was in the days of the VHS....
2007-07-15 11:43:24
11.   fanerman
10 - DVD's can rewind and fast forward.
2007-07-15 11:43:28
12.   ToyCannon
A Boras client being hard to sign. What are the odds.
2007-07-15 11:43:53
13.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, they do let you go back. But the DVD was over...

My brother didn't want to review it. He wanted to rewind it before putting it back in the case to set a good example for his kids to rewind videos.

I think one of his kids corrected him.

2007-07-15 11:45:45
14.   D4P
It seems pretty clear that Management is not high on Betemit. Hard as it may be to believe, he is currently OPSin .846, which trails only Loney, Kemp, and Martin.

With his $400k salary, large ISOs and three-true-outcomeness, I've been thinking that he might be attractive to a team like Oakland, particularly since they have Chavez at 3B putting up worse number for $9.5 million/year. Oakland could either trade Chavez to someone else and acquire Betemit from us, or even trade Chavez to us for Betemit.

Anyone see this happening? I'm not saying I want it to happen, but rather that I could see it happening, given Management's obvious lack of faith in Boom Boom's ability.

2007-07-15 11:46:55
15.   Jon Weisman
8 - Perhaps more importantly, can we put to rest the myth that Betemit only produces as a pinch-hitter?
2007-07-15 11:47:32
16.   Jon Weisman
And with 15, I imagine Bojangles will be stopping by to put me in my place anytime now.
2007-07-15 11:48:47
17.   D4P
BTW: How long before Grittle starts talking "arm angles" in re: Betemit...?
2007-07-15 11:53:15
18.   Bob Timmermann
Grady Little has the capacity to speak like a normal human being, which is refreshing. He doesn't use a lot of pointless baseball jargon.

Except he does like the way the ball comes out of Tomko's hand.

Most of us just don't like how the ball comes off the opposition's bat after Tomko throws it.

2007-07-15 11:53:34
19.   ToyCannon
I love watching the DRays bang away at the Yankee's. To bad the middle relief will evenutally succumb to the inevitable. 4 shutout innings for EJ. The defense has made some nice plays behind him but he made Jeter look silly in the 3rd. Best 4 innings I've seen him pitch this year.

The advantage of having Vegas as our AAA team is that DJ will be available today.
D Young now with 54 EBH. Seems to be hitting a double a game these days.

2007-07-15 11:54:12
20.   Bob Timmermann
74 pitches through 7 for Buddy in Atlanta. Braves lead 3-1. Will he get to go for the CG?
2007-07-15 11:54:56
21.   D4P
Isn't it sad that Ned probably has no clue that 400k for .846 OPS is a fantastic bargain?

Isn't it also sad that Ned probably considers Nomar's Clutchness© for $8.5 million to be an even better bargain?

2007-07-15 11:56:07
22.   Bob Timmermann
You can't copyright "clutchness." It's a process. You have to get a patent.
2007-07-15 11:57:54
23.   Bob Timmermann
Dioner is now 2 for 2 with a stolen base!
2007-07-15 11:58:12
24.   ToyCannon
Navarro not taking kindly to slights by Bob is now 2/2 with a stolen base.
2007-07-15 11:58:46
25.   ToyCannon
Evidently were enjoying the same game.
2007-07-15 11:59:09
26.   Gagne55
It seems that when Betemit spot starts he hit the cover off the ball. But the more regularly he starts, the worse he becomes. I don't know why this is, but it seems that Betemit is potent in small quantities.
2007-07-15 12:02:56
27.   ToyCannon
I continue to find it amazing how you can read Ned's mind.
2007-07-15 12:03:07
28.   StolenMonkey86
Well on the subject of feeling old, I went over to buy some groceries the other day, including a 6 pack of Red Stripe. That automatically prompts for an ID check, so the cashier punched in a birthday really quick. That was interesting enough since I just turned 21 in March, but on the receipt I saw he had punched in November 11, 1921 as the birthdate. I didn't think I looked 85.

Betemit has been leading the team in PrOPS for a little while, and now he's hitting .225/.353/.493, but his BABIP is still a mere .236 (.319 vs LHP, though). He's been pretty consistent in PrOPS, sitting now at .930, and if he got some playing time he'd probably still have some evening out to do to hit a very hard .260. Again, I was surprised Atlanta let him go, but I think they thought Baez was actually useful (ha!) and Aybar would be similar to Betemit but with an arbitration clock that starts a year later, so that probably helped in that deal.

2007-07-15 12:03:42
29.   Gagne55
Furcal, SS
Martin, C
Kent, 2B
Gonzo, LF
Nomar, 3B
Loney, 1B
Kemp, RF
Tomko, P

is today's line-up. Holten is back on the roster, as Tsao is now on the DL. (Holten to start Tuesday? nobody knows)

2007-07-15 12:03:45
30.   regfairfield
26 But when the people blocking him are Nomar and Abreu, I'm willing to live with occasional production.

Same thing with LaRoche, yeah, he might not be ready yet, but could he be any worse than what we have at that position now?

2007-07-15 12:05:42
31.   Bob Timmermann
91 pitches through 8 for Buddy. Braves lead the Bucs 4-1. Will he go the distance?
2007-07-15 12:07:57
32.   ToyCannon
You just turned 21 and your feeling old???

I wish I could swear on this site.

2007-07-15 12:08:22
33.   bhsportsguy
30 I expect to see Wilson play on Wednesday afternoon and again on the weekend when the Mets throw a rightie on the mound.

Should Matt's week in the lineup despite Ethier's production with lefties pitching today and tomorrow and then on Thursday and Friday.

2007-07-15 12:09:31
34.   Bob Timmermann
I turned 21 just a few months before he was born. I actually went out to a bar and got a free beer that day when I showed my ID.
2007-07-15 12:09:39
35.   bhsportsguy
32 I realized I was one of the few who remembered Dodger Pepsi Fan Clubs and Helmet Weekend a while ago so let the youngsters rant about ID checks if they want to.
2007-07-15 12:10:21
36.   Bob Timmermann
Willie Harris pinch hits for Buddy!


2007-07-15 12:11:27
37.   Jon Weisman
26 - This strikes me as another attempt to rationalize recent history. Now we're going to piegonhole him as a spot starter.

Maybe Betemit is just what he is - a hitter who has good games and bad games, like other hitters - and we don't need to overthink it.

2007-07-15 12:12:15
38.   StolenMonkey86
32 - when someone says on paper that you're 85, even if it's purely false, then yeah. That might even be older than you. :)

I think I like it more than when I went to a Wal Mart two years ago and the lady at the register thought I was 12.

2007-07-15 12:12:59
39.   Bob Timmermann
BJ Upton - not ready for center field.
2007-07-15 12:13:07
40.   fanerman
28, 32
I turned 21 last year and just graduated from college. Tomorrow I'm starting my first day of work at my first real job. I think I'm going to have an early-mid-life crisis.
2007-07-15 12:14:44
41.   Bob Timmermann
Find out when you get fully vested in the company pension plan. I was fully vested in two different plans by the time I was 32.
2007-07-15 12:15:28
42.   bhsportsguy
40 Quit, go back to school, backpack across the Rockies, delay entering the workforce as long as you can.

Unless, it is something you love, then by all means, start working for the man or woman.

2007-07-15 12:16:06
43.   Bob Timmermann
Edwin Jackson gave up a double to Wil Nieves. This is not good. It's 3-2 D-Rays now.
2007-07-15 12:18:09
44.   bhsportsguy
41 I stayed at my last job 2 1/2 extra years for that very reason.

Fortunately, this job, I was fully vested from day 1, but then there isn't much of pension plan.

Bob works for City so he probably can retire on library money in 15 years or so.

2007-07-15 12:19:28
45.   Bob Timmermann
And then the 2-run homer to Jeter and it's 4-3 Yankees.
2007-07-15 12:20:23
46.   fanerman
41 I don't think I'm yet eligible for the pension plan. I think I have to wait a little but I'll find out.

42 I plan on going to grad school in a couple years. But I want to make sure I'm in the right field first. This is as close to an ideal job for me (seemingly) as I know of, so I don't mind working. I graduated a couple months ago so I've had plenty of time off.

2007-07-15 12:21:28
47.   ToyCannon
He speaks with wisdom. Put off as long as you can joining the workforce. Enjoy your youth don't get sucked in by a paycheck.
2007-07-15 12:24:34
48.   Bob Timmermann
I started working for The Man right away because I wanted to save up money. Then once I had vacation time banked, I took the vacations I wanted, like 12 Japanese baseball stadiums in 15 days or going all the way to Easter Island.

It's an alternative route. It's not necessarily the best. It all depends upon what you value in life.

2007-07-15 12:27:04
49.   bhsportsguy
46 There are not many places outside of government jobs that have traditional pension plans, almost everyone has a 401K plan, one thing to consider about grad school, look to see if your employer or potential employer offers educational benefits that will pay for your education.

47 I think that is the hardest thing because to do anything "fun," or get a car, etc., you need cash and getting that first paycheck is tempting.

2007-07-15 12:30:12
50.   Bob Timmermann
Has anyone seen the commercial for Chase Bank where the young woman gets her first paycheck and then deposits in the bank and then goes off and starts having fun.

She buys lunch for her friends (with a credit card), then she is with her boyfriend outside a movie theater (they used the Rialto in South Pasadena). She gets a text message indicating that another $220 was deposited (apparently she gets some other automatic deposits on Saturday nights) and then whisks the boyfriend away for more fun.

But if she were at the Rialto, I think all she could do for fun at that time would be either a trip to Jamba Juice or Starbucks.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-07-15 12:30:51
51.   LA Native
Still waiting for Betemit to get a start at 2nd. Between Nomar and Kent's rest and pinch hitting, I think we can get him enough AB's to really utilize him. Everyone says he can play second, but have yet to really see it.

Given this I am fine with Abreu going to Vegas until Sept. callup. Still waiting for Pierre to get a rest in center so we can have an Eithier, Gonzo, Kemp outfield. Overall not a bad lineup (you can sub Betemit for Nomar for even more power).

2007-07-15 12:33:11
52.   Gen3Blue
Bob T. in regard to the previous posts, I don't think I'm going to be happy when I figure out what ESPYs are!
2007-07-15 12:33:28
53.   bhsportsguy
50 They could go to Pavillions and buy fresh fruit. Or they could splurge and go to Carmines, heavy pasta dishes is what defines fun for me.
2007-07-15 12:35:51
54.   bhsportsguy
52 The highlight will be Lebron James doing a Bobby Brown impersonation. Bobby Brown's solo career peaked around 1989, so Lebron would have been a pretty cool kid to be fan during pre-school.
2007-07-15 12:39:43
55.   imperabo

Russ Martin should never be allowed to play in day games, where he has a 700 OPS. Also, he really sucks against the Angels, Blue Jays, Cubs, Mets, and Rockies. He shouldn't play against them anymore. Oh, and don't EVER let him hit cleanup; 250 OPS there. He's also terrible in the clutch with a 622 OPS in close and late situations.

So, I propose we forbid him from playing in any of those situations. He has HOF numbers otherwise. Then if he falters in any other situations we'll know more things he can't do and cut him back there as well. Eventually he'll be in a position where he can't ever fail.

2007-07-15 12:43:41
56.   Bob Timmermann
No one should ever watch the ESPYs. Ever. For a single minute.

You can watch an infomercial by Kevin Trudeau for 24 straight hours and your life will be better than watching a minute of the ESPYs.

2007-07-15 12:43:57
57.   Gen3Blue
First Fox ruins a baseball fans every saturday, now ESPN is working on sundays. I hope the game goes twenty innings. If you see a flash of light far to the east it may mean Gameday messed up and my brain reached critical mass and went nuclear!
2007-07-15 12:44:38
58.   D4P
No one should ever watch (insert name of any "award" show). Ever. For a single minute.
2007-07-15 12:47:08
59.   Gen3Blue
Or that flash in the east may only mean Tomko's being typical.
2007-07-15 12:47:14
60.   Bob Timmermann
Winn not in the lineup today for the Giants. Lewis gets the start. And it's Aurilia at third instead of Feliz.

I'm not sure what rationale Bochy uses to decide between Aurilia and Feliz at third base.

2007-07-15 12:50:50
61.   Gen3Blue
60 On a given day, which one looks least near death?
2007-07-15 12:52:30
62.   PlayKempDaily
60- Maybe because the giants have only one day off untill august 30th??
2007-07-15 12:55:13
63.   Bob Timmermann
But is there a pattern or do they just trade off each day?

It's not like either guy is setting the NL on fire.

2007-07-15 12:55:36
64.   bhsportsguy
Disclaimer, Joe Sheehan picked the D-Backs to win the West so his analysis should not be surprising.

Also, and again, Baseball Prospectus never claimed to be objective but they have not been above snide comments by many of their writers about the Dodgers since they fired Paul. But I am not sure I would say with any conviction that Kevin Towers vs. Ned is such a huge mismatch, you could not bet on it in Vegas because they would take it off the board. Last day for the free preview at BP.

2007-07-15 12:58:14
65.   Marty
50 She could go across the street to Gus' BBQ...nevermind, she's supposed to be having fun.
2007-07-15 12:59:34
66.   confucius
I predict that Tomko will go 3 1/3 innings and give up 4 runs.

What does everyone else think?

2007-07-15 13:00:57
67.   Marty
Did Tsao's shoulder explode on the grand slam pitch? Or the one just before that.
2007-07-15 13:01:42
68.   D4P
The Dodgers appear set to play out the year with a .313 OBP in the leadoff spot, and the fourth-best third baseman in the organization as the everyday guy at the position. Good luck with that, guys. All the great relief pitching in the world won't make up for those two decisions
2007-07-15 13:02:32
69.   overkill94
64 Since when did Pierre move back to the lead-off spot?
2007-07-15 13:03:15
70.   overkill94
66 4 IP, 4 ER, but the Dodgers end up winning 7-5 anyway
2007-07-15 13:03:55
71.   Marty
I am currently knee-deep in delicious peaches in my backyard. Bob, do you want some shipped to you?
2007-07-15 13:06:16
72.   Bob Timmermann
Who keeps Gus's BBQ in business? It has rude servers, poor food, grossly inflated prices, and doesn't have great access either.

Is that place just living off the fact that it has a cool neon sign?

2007-07-15 13:11:36
73.   Bob Timmermann
Any runner is out when --
(a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner's baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely;
2007-07-15 13:12:30
74.   Lexinthedena
I wonder what the Giants starting nine will look like next year...I don't like it when they are this fun....
2007-07-15 13:13:18
75.   Lexinthedena
I wonder what the Giants starting nine will look like next year...I don't like it when they are this fun....
2007-07-15 13:15:10
76.   Lexinthedena
72-If your looking for good BBQ in the Pasadena area....go to Bill's Chicken on Lake Ave. right below Washington...


2007-07-15 13:15:17
77.   Bob Timmermann
74 75

Not his fault. Server hiccough.

2007-07-15 13:15:20
78.   jtrichey
What gives here? The Direct TV online schedule says that Dodgers/Giants is supposed to be on channel 745 today, and I have the blank screen. Why can I not watch the Dodgers today?
2007-07-15 13:15:57
79.   Bob Timmermann
Curse of the ESPYs!
2007-07-15 13:16:32
80.   Gen3Blue
In play--no out?
2007-07-15 13:16:32
81.   overkill94
Time for Nomar's clutchitude to kick in
2007-07-15 13:17:31
82.   overkill94
or not
2007-07-15 13:17:34
83.   Lexinthedena
Dead man walkin'!
2007-07-15 13:17:52
84.   confucius
Time for Nomar to get a job at Home Depot.
2007-07-15 13:17:55
85.   Marty
I live just up the street from Bill's Chicken and have never cared much for it. Though to be honest, I haven't tried it in years.
2007-07-15 13:18:00
86.   Telemachos
Ugh, that missed sign by Martin (or whatever it was) really messed up the inning.
2007-07-15 13:18:27
87.   Woody
57-I get shafted every Sat. that a natioal FOX broadcast does a regional game. Living in the Gulf Coast, I only get Braves and sometimes Cubs games, which are already being broadcast on their superstations. It ain't fair, and since I already have exteme prejudice toward anything FOX (facist pigs), it's doubly aggrevating.
2007-07-15 13:18:56
88.   bhsportsguy
84 Geez, a guy can't make an out around here.
2007-07-15 13:19:14
89.   PlayKempDaily
what would WILSON do? Nomar kills me with his first pitch swinging. I guess Betemit didn't show enough yesterday to deserve another start today.
2007-07-15 13:19:48
90.   Woody
I meant fascist.
2007-07-15 13:20:13
91.   Bob Timmermann
No, you cannot.
2007-07-15 13:20:30
92.   overkill94
88 When Nomar's only redeeming trait (clutch hitting) falls by the wayside, I'm not sure what defense you can give for him
2007-07-15 13:21:49
93.   Gen3Blue
Looks like a nasty at bat again for Nomar. One pitch!
Watching on gameday made me notice hwo station to station we've been. Partly due to Furcal's health and Pierres "barely hits" and bunts.
2007-07-15 13:22:10
94.   Lexinthedena
85- Had it on Friday....Beef ribs were excellent...
2007-07-15 13:22:12
95.   ToyCannon
Carlos Pena is such a cool story this year. How great is it that he's the best 1st baseball in the AL right now playing against a team that has no 1st baseman who had him in AAA last year and let him walk.
On Bronx Batter someone suggested they trade Mat Desalvo for him. The arrogance or ignorance of such an offer left me typelist.
2007-07-15 13:22:23
96.   Michael D

Looked like his suckitude kicked in instead.

2007-07-15 13:22:28
97.   bhsportsguy
That's a tough break for Tomko.

Let's see how many times I can type that today.

2007-07-15 13:24:29
98.   bhsportsguy
93 Unfortunately Kent's sacrifice fly would have been homer in almost any other ballpark.

Not sure what Russell was doing, even if he missed a sign, the pitch looked very hittable.

2007-07-15 13:25:23
99.   overkill94
Oh Jeff...
2007-07-15 13:25:27
100.   Bob Timmermann
When I look at Pedro Feliz's career stats is there any non-catcher or non-pitcher who has played so long with just one organization as much as he has without really ever producing anything in this day?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-07-15 13:25:30
101.   trainwreck
Our bad defense is getting very annoying.
2007-07-15 13:26:06
102.   PlayKempDaily
Jeff Kent is BRUTAL at second base.
2007-07-15 13:26:30
103.   JT Dutch
GREAT fastball to make it 0-2 on Bonds.
2007-07-15 13:26:44
104.   Marty
There was a place on Lake and Altadena in the 80's and 90's called Burnett's BBQ Palace that was my all-time favorite. Sadly, he retired. My favorite BBQ now is
1. J & J's on Adams, east of Fairfax
2. Jaybees on Avalon in Compton
3. Phillip's on Leimart Park in Leimart Park
4. Woody's on Slausen.
5. The guy on Lake Ave in Altadena on Saturdays in an old gas station parking lot.
2007-07-15 13:27:31
105.   overkill94
Barry's struggles in this series have been a delight to watch
2007-07-15 13:27:52
106.   Gen3Blue
87 Total agreement. And ESPN is not far from being added to the list.
2007-07-15 13:28:20
107.   overkill94
100 Chicks dig the long ball...and a sub-.300 OBP
2007-07-15 13:28:23
108.   confucius
Despite whatever the results may be Tomko has pitched very well this inning.
2007-07-15 13:28:41
109.   bhsportsguy
Not sure they could have turned two there but if the inning plays out, Tomko would be out of the inning.

Seems like Jeff's errors in this series have been because he was rushing for some reason.

2007-07-15 13:29:11
110.   Marty
I think Martin just thought it was ball four. Looked high and outside.
2007-07-15 13:29:36
111.   Lexinthedena
104- Woody's is #1 for me, I heard that Woody, and Phillip are cousins...Lived around there for three years....but now that I'm in the 'Dena I don't make that drive too often.....Bill's is the best in area IMO...

Have you been to "the Pit" on S. Vermont?

2007-07-15 13:29:59
112.   jasonungar07
We have the power we say we need we just don't play it (Meat and Bison). The pitching well we can use some help. And this defense, Oy Veh.
2007-07-15 13:30:18
113.   Gen3Blue
And Tomko could make the list. Funny, he seem to change speeds very well today. Must be location
2007-07-15 13:31:22
114.   Lexinthedena
Tomko's stuff is actually looking really good....
2007-07-15 13:31:37
115.   Suffering Bruin
113 Just tuning in here but I agree with you, at least for the last couple of batters I've seen. He might be right... he's a starter and not a reliever.

We shall see...

2007-07-15 13:33:07
116.   JT Dutch
... Well, at least they are unearned runs.
2007-07-15 13:33:07
117.   Lexinthedena
Thanks a lot Jeff....This could get rough...
2007-07-15 13:33:20
118.   Suffering Bruin
I swear it looked like Bengie knew that pitch was coming.
2007-07-15 13:33:20
119.   overkill94
That was actually a pretty good pitch, nice piece of hitting by Bengie there
2007-07-15 13:33:35
120.   Gen3Blue
Don't look east without eye protection.
2007-07-15 13:34:01
121.   Lexinthedena
118- Seemed like it...cuz it was a good pitch...
2007-07-15 13:34:29
122.   bhsportsguy
That's a tough break. Curve ball that just hung up there enough for Molina to pull, a little lower and he rolls over to short.
2007-07-15 13:34:31
123.   JT Dutch
... GREAT play by Kemp!!!
2007-07-15 13:34:32
124.   overkill94
Nice play Bison!
2007-07-15 13:35:05
125.   Retire 55
Worst LA Dodger manager ever
2007-07-15 13:35:06
126.   PlayKempDaily
^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ned???
2007-07-15 13:35:43
127.   bhsportsguy
Well, Tomko wasn't going to win 1-0. Still, he seems to be always pitching defensive which will kill you eventually.
2007-07-15 13:36:32
128.   StolenMonkey86
Error by Kent. Great play by Kemp.

What a difference a letter makes.

2007-07-15 13:36:35
129.   Bob Timmermann
Patsy Donovan and Burleigh Grimes are ready to dispute that.
2007-07-15 13:36:56
130.   Suffering Bruin
125 ??
2007-07-15 13:36:57
131.   StolenMonkey86
or two letters.
2007-07-15 13:37:13
132.   Marty
111 Never been there. There also used to be a good place on Western called Mr. Jim's. Their slogan was "You don't need teeth to Jim's beef".

And if you didn't have teeth, it rhymed.

2007-07-15 13:37:18
133.   Ricardo
Tomko pitched well the inning, the infield hit by Roberts and the error by Kent killed him.
2007-07-15 13:37:57
134.   Bob Timmermann
Error by Kent. Great play by Kemp.

What a difference a letter makes

Which letter? Should the Dodgers start Matt Kenp at second base?

2007-07-15 13:39:02
135.   Lexinthedena
132- Remember the Slogan..but I think it was used by a few spots....

That BBQ spot on Fig. and Chavez is overrated...and it is run by Giants fans...

2007-07-15 13:40:02
136.   Marty
Kemp's hitting the curveball. Watch out.
2007-07-15 13:40:35
137.   bhsportsguy
125 126

What? Somehow I find it hard to be critical of a manager who despite what you may think, managed one team to a playoff spot and has his current team holding the best record in the league.

Maybe its because I have 35+ years of watching so I don't try to get too excited on the day to day or even year to year but since Grady is trying to do something that has only happened once in the last 30 years, go to the playoffs in back to back years and right now has as a good chance as anyone, I cut Grady a lot of slack and besides all that, the man is funny.

2007-07-15 13:40:46
138.   Lexinthedena
Who would win in a race, Loney or Piazza?
2007-07-15 13:40:47
139.   Bob Timmermann
What's the "tough break for Tomko, there" count up to now?
2007-07-15 13:41:10
140.   confucius
Bunting with runners on 1st and 2nd never works.
2007-07-15 13:41:15
141.   Marty
135 That's BBQ King and I'm not a big fan.
2007-07-15 13:42:54
142.   StolenMonkey86
131 just wasn't quick enough. Neither was Loney.
2007-07-15 13:44:04
143.   Bob Timmermann
DT commenters would have crucified Chuck Dressen.
2007-07-15 13:44:19
144.   overkill94
I feel like the Bench Nomar campaign needs to get some viral advertising a la the Fire Lavin t-shirts from a few years ago
2007-07-15 13:45:11
145.   Suffering Bruin
Did I hear that right? During July we've had the best OBP in the majors?
2007-07-15 13:45:42
146.   bhsportsguy
Someone still has to tell me how Mueller did it, the numbers are there but was it that they faced sub-par pitching during that stretch, was it the kids or maybe Mueller is a genius.
2007-07-15 13:45:45
147.   Bob Timmermann
Tampa Bay has had runners thrown out at second, third, and home today and an 8th inning rally ended when the runner on second was doubled off on a line drive.
2007-07-15 13:46:45
148.   Suffering Bruin
143 I bet DT commenters would've had a field day with Uncle Walter. That guy did everything: IBB, H&R, Sac Bunts galore... there wasn't a lever he wouldn't pull.
2007-07-15 13:46:58
149.   Bob Timmermann
The three-foot lane between home and first doesn't make a difference on a tag play. Although I thought Pierre did go too far afield to avoid Klesko's tag in the first.
2007-07-15 13:48:08
150.   Greg Brock
My kingdom for a power hitter!

1 run on 276 hits...

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-07-15 13:48:10
151.   confucius
Omar Vizquel just doing what he does. Make the routine look difficult.
2007-07-15 13:48:17
152.   Marty
We'd have roasted Lasorda too.
2007-07-15 13:48:40
153.   Lexinthedena
Having lived in Venezuela, I kind of have a biase against Omar Visquel, because I was told that he comes form a prominent right wing family in Caracas, but he really is the best defensive SS I have ever seen....

The Wizard was an old man by the time I was old enought to really "watch" baseball....

2007-07-15 13:48:51
154.   Bob Timmermann
But in 1974, Alston called for 9 IBBs the whole season.

Just nine!

Alston hated the IBB as he got older. Game 3 of the 1962 playoff against the Giants would have been fun to read.

Jon would have been deleting a series of Rule 1 violations directed toward Alston, Roebuck, Williams, and Burright.

2007-07-15 13:49:10
155.   bhsportsguy
145 From the last thread.

Murray's team:
In a little over 2400 plate appearances:
0.261/0.329/0.383, 4.4 runs per game.

Mueller's team through yesterday:
In a little over 1000 plate appearances:
0.306/0.370/0.437, 5.2 runs per game

2007-07-15 13:49:44
156.   Suffering Bruin
113 Just tuning in here but I agree with you, at least for the last couple of batters I've seen. He might be right... he's a starter and not a reliever.

We shall see...

2007-07-15 13:49:49
157.   overkill94
151 Stupid Vizquel making that leaping catch from his knees
2007-07-15 13:50:07
158.   Bob Timmermann
We still do roast Lasorda. He was the designated bad guy in DePodesta's ouster.
2007-07-15 13:51:00
159.   Suffering Bruin
156 I don't know how that happened... I hit backspace accidentaly... maybe that was it?
2007-07-15 13:51:26
160.   Marty
156 Is that the record for gap between double posts?
2007-07-15 13:51:56
161.   Retire 55
Dressen, yeah right.

Don't understand why people are eager to willfully ignore Grady's mismanagement of the lineup and the pitching staff. Especially on a day where he's starting Tomko for no reason besides stubbornness. We should have the best record in the NL with at least a few games to spare.

2007-07-15 13:52:05
162.   confucius
137 I agree. Grady isn't perfect but he's my favorite Dodger manager since Lasorda.
2007-07-15 13:53:55
163.   Suffering Bruin
154 That remains the most stunning stat I have ever seen (a trivia question I asked on this site from days gone by, by the by). Alston turned on the IBB so viscerally, you wonder what might've happened. Did he make some kind of discovery that it didn't work? It's not like he had markedly better pitching or anything.
2007-07-15 13:53:56
164.   Linkmeister
154 Yeah, if Jon ever wants to do a retro gameday thread, I'd advise against using that one. Every time I think about it I want to throw things.
2007-07-15 13:54:53
165.   Lexinthedena
161- We do have the best record in the NL....

Sick of the Grady bashing.....

2007-07-15 13:55:44
166.   Suffering Bruin
160 :)

I figured it out. I tabbed to the "preview post" and hit backspace to get rid of the check mark. I think what that did, besides getting rid of the mark, was recall a previous post. I tabbed again to hit submit and aren't we all richer for knowing this crap?

2007-07-15 13:56:00
167.   Bob Timmermann
Perhaps we don't consider Grady Little the worst manager in Dodgers history because he is not the worst manager in Dodgers history.

Wasn't it just a couple years ago when Jim Tracy was the worst manager ever? People here accused Tracy of tanking games to spite DePodesta.

And now Little is worse? With the best record in the NL?

2007-07-15 13:56:32
168.   Greg Brock
Grady is actually the first Dodgers manager I've ever liked. Of course, Tom Lasorda was the manager for most of my life, so that kind of narrows it down.
2007-07-15 13:56:47
169.   Robert Daeley
"for no reason besides stubbornness."

Just because you don't understand the reason doesn't mean there isn't one.

2007-07-15 13:56:47
170.   Suffering Bruin
164 I swear, I love that idea!
2007-07-15 13:56:55
171.   King of the Hobos
Most of the difference in 155 is in batting average. I'm not sure if that's indicative of anything, but it seems to be the case. How do Mueller's numbers look without Loney/Kemp?
2007-07-15 13:57:05
172.   overkill94
161 Who should he have started instead? Stults?
2007-07-15 13:57:09
173.   Marty
Jim Tracy, Jim Tracy...where have I heard that name?
2007-07-15 13:57:17
174.   Retire 55
Russ is playing so well
2007-07-15 13:57:33
175.   Bob Timmermann
An old man like me, who better appreciates "Freaks and Geeks" than Greg Brock, only has one more manager to remember.
2007-07-15 13:57:55
176.   bhsportsguy
Kent is hitting .333 since Mueller took over as the hitting coach.

Somehow I don't see Murray and Kent having lots of talks about anything.

2007-07-15 13:58:16
177.   Retire 55
Houlton or Stults, yep.
2007-07-15 13:58:39
178.   Marty
I'm 10 years older than Bob and have the same number of managers to remember.
2007-07-15 13:58:59
179.   King of the Hobos
Tampa Bay is rallying thanks in part to a catcher's interference.
2007-07-15 13:59:10
180.   Lexinthedena
Great...more of Vin's mancrush on Visquel....
2007-07-15 13:59:35
181.   D4P
Somehow I don't see Murray and Kent having lots of talks about anything

Jeff Kent doesn't understand black people.

2007-07-15 13:59:45
182.   Suffering Bruin
Tracy may not have been the worst but he made the most transparently obvious mistakes I have ever seen.
2007-07-15 14:00:09
183.   trainwreck
I know he cannot hit anymore, but I will be very happy to see Vizquel gone from the Giants.
2007-07-15 14:00:18
184.   Marty
Lugo's collapse was hilarious.
2007-07-15 14:00:51
185.   Branch Rickey
155. Can you or someone who is good at such things please take a look at how much of the difference is directly attibutable to Loney and Kemp? Of course, everytime they don't make an out they give others a chance to succeed but what about the direct numbers?
2007-07-15 14:01:07
186.   overkill94
168 I grew up liking Lasorda, but that's mostly because I didn't know any better. I didn't really like any of the subsequent replacements (especially Davey Johnson) until Tracy, whom I liked at first but eventually loathed. Little has been good for the most part and I'll be even more on his side if he ever benches Nomar.
2007-07-15 14:01:41
187.   Greg Brock
I've only ever wanted one man to manage the Dodgers. And his name is Robert John Valentine.
2007-07-15 14:01:44
188.   ddger
Tomko actually pitched a scoreless inning.
2007-07-15 14:02:11
189.   Robert Daeley
180 I'm kinda hoping the talk of trading Vizquel turns out to be true.
2007-07-15 14:04:39
190.   confucius
I was born in '82 so I obviuosly don't know that much about Alston's managing style. From what I read he seems to be somewhat like Grady with his laid back attitude. Do you guys think that they're similar as managers?
2007-07-15 14:05:42
191.   Retire 55
I'd like to see Orel take over after Grady leaves the money on the table and retires this winter (from what I've heard).
2007-07-15 14:05:54
192.   Greg Brock
I still cannot believe how bad the Giants lineup is. It's almost like trying hard to put together a lousy lineup of has-beens. It takes a lot of effort.
2007-07-15 14:06:28
193.   StolenMonkey86
189 - For Julio Lugo straight up? Lugo is hitting a stellar .209/.278/.305 on the year.
2007-07-15 14:08:00
194.   Bob Timmermann
Little and Alston have much different personalities. Alston was not known for having much of a sense of humor. Alston was very quiet. A lot of people thought that Alston was generally clueless and just kept his job because he was a company man and didn't cause trouble.

Alston had much more of a temper than Little.

2007-07-15 14:08:02
195.   Lexinthedena
Lasorda was a great manager...just a jerk....

I'm telling Lasorda's "audio stew" fabulous....

2007-07-15 14:08:48
196.   D4P
Just think: you too could make millions and get a contract extension for putting such a lineup together. Oh: and for paying Barry Zito $100 million bucks.
2007-07-15 14:10:14
197.   Bob Timmermann
Which Tommy Lasorda were you watching? Which pitcher's arm did you not mind Lasorda shredding into ribbons?
2007-07-15 14:10:40
198.   Suffering Bruin
190 Both Grady and Alston suffered setbacks that were laid directly at their doorstep (Grittle with the Pedro moment and Alston several itmes, most notably in '62). Both seem like players managers but both wouldn't hesitate to get in the face of of their players (Grittle has done it a few times and Alston once threatened to fight any player who stood up on a team bus).

Alston was more extreme that Grittle in that if there was a move to be made, he would do it. He could also turn on a strategy like a Creon turned on Antigone (thank you, I'm here all week).

2007-07-15 14:11:10
199.   Suffering Bruin
Is it me or is Vin being implicitally critical of Nomar swinging at the first pitch?
2007-07-15 14:11:40
200.   Greg Brock
195 Lasorda ran more arms into the ground than Dusty Baker could ever dream of doing. And he called so many vanity plays (hits and runs, etc).

Being a loudmouth phony and bigot is just the icing on the cake.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-07-15 14:12:54
201.   D4P
Wow. Nomar took 5 of 7 pitches in that AB.
2007-07-15 14:13:18
202.   Telemachos
You know, I've come around on Vizquel. He used to bug me, but now I see him more as a entertainer. If he likes putting a bit of wow into a play, to give the crowd a thrill, who am I to argue?
2007-07-15 14:14:09
203.   Lexinthedena
197, 200- I was very young, and may not have paid attention to such things...I just remember him sarcasm intended....
2007-07-15 14:14:23
204.   heato
Hu is hitting like crazy. He hit another home run in Vegas today.
2007-07-15 14:14:42
205.   NorCal-Dodger
Previous comments about Loney hitting everything hard..sooooo true!
2007-07-15 14:15:01
206.   overkill94
Time for Bison to go boom
2007-07-15 14:15:31
207.   overkill94
Well, that was pretty boomy
2007-07-15 14:15:36
208.   Telemachos
2007-07-15 14:15:40
209.   trainwreck
I heart this duo.
2007-07-15 14:15:45
210.   Suffering Bruin
197 Disagreeing with Bob is not a hobby I want to get into as I am usually if not always wrong when I do so. But...

Lasorda was a very good manager because he won. I was always resentful that Bill James stopped writing his abstracts after the '87 season. He wrote a book a couple of yars later and wrote an off-hand comment that Lasorda did something like twenty different things during the '88 season that made the difference between the team winning and losing.

Lasorda could've done many things to avoid wining. Some years, he probably did. But my favorite team has flags flying thanks to him. He did a lot of things very right.

2007-07-15 14:15:51
211.   bluedog
Kemp is the man!
2007-07-15 14:16:05
212.   NorCal-Dodger
The 2 headed monster: Loney and Kemp
2007-07-15 14:16:35
213.   Bob Timmermann
It's OK. The Dodgers did win four pennants under Lasorda, but for the most part the Dodgers won in spite of Lasorda. Managing the 1977-78 Dodgers was not taxing.
2007-07-15 14:17:19
214.   Bob Timmermann
Good break for Tomko there!
2007-07-15 14:17:25
215.   Retire 55
Bison charge!!
2007-07-15 14:17:25
216.   El Lay Dave
Kemp takes a CURVEBALL the other way with authority.
2007-07-15 14:17:56
217.   El Lay Dave
Lowry dares get in the way of the Bison?
2007-07-15 14:18:16
218.   D4P
Maybe Loney and Kemp should hit higher in the lineup than Pierre and Nomar.
2007-07-15 14:18:52
219.   Lexinthedena
Is anyone else seeing the Kemp/Manny similarities yet?
2007-07-15 14:19:21
220.   Bob Timmermann
Can't anybody here play this game?
2007-07-15 14:19:30
221.   Greg Brock
Every time Kemp makes a great play or hits the snot out of the ball (that is to say, every time he plays) it magnifies the stupidity of certain other personnel decisions.

This is really a big problem.

2007-07-15 14:19:56
222.   King of the Hobos
The current graphic says Pierre is one of the leaders of the game. How so?
2007-07-15 14:20:23
223.   overkill94
Pierre's been much less annoying lately. Even a lot of his outs seem to be line drives, possibly foreshadowing a 2nd half like he had last year.
2007-07-15 14:20:23
224.   Zach
Charley Steiner regularly fails the one basic task of a radio announcer - to describe the action on the field in real-time, particularly during exciting moments. I just felt that fact was important to record in a public venue.
2007-07-15 14:20:53
225.   NorCal-Dodger
219 No becasue, Kemp can field and has an arm! And don't think he'll be "Matt being Matt"
2007-07-15 14:21:16
226.   Bob Timmermann
So far, Tomko has not been given an RBI on his bunt. Lowry is just been given an error for dropping the bunt instead of an obstruction call.
2007-07-15 14:21:22
227.   D4P
Every time Kemp makes a great play or hits the snot out of the ball (that is to say, every time he plays) it magnifies the stupidity of certain other personnel decisions

And every time he makes an out, it proves that he's not ready for the major leagues yet.

2007-07-15 14:21:24
228.   Lexinthedena
Wha?....Juan?...who are you?
2007-07-15 14:21:51
229.   StolenMonkey86
I like how Juan Pierre walking is followed by a coaching visit to the mound
2007-07-15 14:22:07
230.   overkill94
D4P, you still in North Carolina? I'm gonna be in Raleigh for about 18 hours and was wondering if you had any tips on things to see.
2007-07-15 14:22:19
231.   Lexinthedena
225- He he 'bout the hitting part....
2007-07-15 14:22:29
232.   D4P
A "Coaching visit to mound" is pretty much obligatory after a walk has been issued to Juan Pierre.
2007-07-15 14:22:31
233.   Branch Rickey
I guess Bill Mueller is getting smarter by the minute.
2007-07-15 14:23:03
234.   Lexinthedena
229-Then Russ swinging at the first pitch and popping out harmlessly...bizzarro inning....
2007-07-15 14:23:05
235.   bhsportsguy
185 Maybe an appropriate time to respond, not sure why Mueller doesn't get credit for Kemp and Loney but here's goes the numbers.

With Kemp and Loney:

Without Kemp and Loney:

2007-07-15 14:23:13
236.   Bob Timmermann
Martin swung at the first pitch! He's a witch! Burn him!
2007-07-15 14:23:29
237.   Greg Brock
227 To be fair, Kemp does make an out more often than he does not make an out.

He certainly needs to work on that if he's going to stick around.

2007-07-15 14:23:47
238.   El Lay Dave
Patience, patience, Russell. First-pitch swing after a BB to Pierre. Sure enough, he got jammed.
2007-07-15 14:24:18
239.   StolenMonkey86
234 - Russell Martin makes outs every so often so people do not become suspicious, or to allow his teammates a shot at the spotlight.
2007-07-15 14:24:44
240.   King of the Hobos
Hu, Young, and Laroche all have big games once again.

Hu 3-4, HR
Young 3-4, HR
Laroche 2-4, 2B

2007-07-15 14:24:48
241.   Suffering Bruin
224 Bingo. I've been a defender of Charley's for eon's but since last season the problem you've described has gotten progressively worse.
2007-07-15 14:25:25
242.   Gen3Blue
Its wierd. The only guy today notable for making easy outs is Nomar. He is not that kind of guy. Something is wrong, and I know he is not happy with this situation. If he can survive this, he will be avaluable assett.
2007-07-15 14:26:14
243.   bhsportsguy
Kemp and Loney since Mueller was hired.
Not counting today's game.


2007-07-15 14:27:44
244.   D4P
Are you confined to Raleigh per se, or can you get out to Durham and Chapel Hill?

If the former, and if you're like me, I suppose you might want to visit NC State University, and the capital area. Both are more or less in downtown Raleigh, and not too far from each other.

If you can get out, Duke and UNC are worth visiting. Downtown Durham is kinda interesting too, as you can see all the old tobacco warehouses that are being converted into other things.

2007-07-15 14:28:15
245.   overkill94
Kemp's OPS is creeping back up to the 1.000 mark, he's at .974 now
2007-07-15 14:28:21
246.   Suffering Bruin
242 I hope you're right, I really do.
2007-07-15 14:28:21
247.   NorCal-Dodger
242 His value maybe spelling some relief for Betemit at 3rd, or Raffy at SS, or Loney at 1st, heck can probably cover 2nd for Kent once in awhile also.

Nonetheless, hope he does start to turn things around!

2007-07-15 14:28:38
248.   JT Dutch

... Nice Casey Stengel reference.

2007-07-15 14:29:16
249.   Lexinthedena
240- Vegas seriously inflates numbers....that being said, these are very exciting times....
2007-07-15 14:30:30
250.   Gen3Blue
King: 240 This sounds a bit like yesterday. I hope its fresh, and Laroche can rise above his shoulder doldrums.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-07-15 14:30:49
251.   StolenMonkey86
210 - Speaking from a bit of hearsay knowledge, what Lasorda did well was give his players confidence, perhaps best demonstrated in the Sermon on the Mound to Hershiser. But seriously, wins and losses for a manager are probably even worse than wins and losses for a pitcher as far as determining quality. It strikes me that the GM picks the personnel and the manager just decides what to do with them, which only allows for so much discretion, particularly since the GM can fire him.
2007-07-15 14:31:45
252.   Gen3Blue
Take some pitches and we could be rid of Lowry.
2007-07-15 14:32:20
253.   overkill94
244 It's just a quick little business trip, so I'll only have a few hours to look around. Visiting the university sounds like fun, I always like checking out different campuses. Any tips for night life in case I'm not too tired once I land?
2007-07-15 14:33:13
254.   Bob Timmermann
Jeff Weaver's magical run seems to be ending today against the Tigers.
2007-07-15 14:34:02
255.   overkill94
Hey, Nomar got a hit!
2007-07-15 14:34:20
256.   D4P
Any tips for night life in case I'm not too tired once I land?

I have spent almost no time in downtown Raleigh, but in the little time I was there, it looked like there's a lot of restaurants and bars and stuff down there.

Do you know where you're staying?

2007-07-15 14:34:24
257.   Bob Timmermann
That ball was exceedingly foul.
2007-07-15 14:34:27
258.   overkill94
That ball was not even close to being fair, but I'm sure Nomar will take it
2007-07-15 14:34:30
259.   Greg Brock
Wow. That is an unbelievably bad call.
2007-07-15 14:34:37
260.   Suffering Bruin
It was a foul ball...
2007-07-15 14:34:41
261.   trainwreck
2007-07-15 14:35:04
262.   D4P

Pierre: .655
Nomar: .655

2007-07-15 14:35:17
263.   Bob Timmermann
I think Nomar only got into second by a hair because he probably wasn't running out of the box hard because he saw the ball go foul.
2007-07-15 14:35:20
264.   Lexinthedena
I like seeing Umps overturn bad me hope...
2007-07-15 14:35:33
265.   overkill94
256 Looks like my hotel's actually in Cary (Best Western)
2007-07-15 14:35:41
266.   Branch Rickey
235. In comparing "Murray's dodgers" vs "Mueller's dodgers" its pretty important to note that Loney was brought up only a few days before the change. I'm pretty sure that the bulk of kemp ABs are since the switch. Is mueller to be credited with this badly needed rostrer change that is clearly the main reason for the turn around?
2007-07-15 14:35:55
267.   El Lay Dave
Nomar finally hits one hard and it's just foul. Bad luck.
2007-07-15 14:36:39
268.   confucius
That's more like it Nomar.
2007-07-15 14:36:49
269.   D4P
Check that:


Pierre: .655
Nomar: .646

2007-07-15 14:37:41
270.   bhsportsguy
249 You realize that Hu has more homers than Loney and only one less than Matt Kemp hit in Vegas.
2007-07-15 14:37:47
271.   Greg Brock
All of this Meuller vs. Murray talk must always come with the caveat that hitting coaches matter almost none.

Better players are playing now.

2007-07-15 14:38:45
272.   overkill94
Whoever comes up with these Yahoo rumors needs to get his head examined:

Kemp for Contreras? Pleeeease.

2007-07-15 14:40:18
273.   bhsportsguy
266 But the numbers improved greatly without Kemp and Loney's contributions but again I don't see why Mueller doesn't get credit because it wasn't like James was killing the ball in AAA prior to his callup.
2007-07-15 14:40:43
274.   overkill94
The rumors of Jeff Weaver's rejuvenation seem to have been vastly overrated
2007-07-15 14:42:18
275.   D4P
The rumors of Jeff Weaver's rejuvenation seem to have been vastly overrated

I blame Bob.

2007-07-15 14:42:34
276.   bhsportsguy
271 Partly, though Kent and Pierre are batting better during that stretch. Also, despite his OPS numbers, for batting average, Abreu and Nomar have raised up the numbers at 3B.

Also not giving a day off to Russell keeps the catching numbers up for now.

2007-07-15 14:42:36
277.   Lexinthedena
Everything about Tomko seems different...his pitches seem faster, and even is windup looks different...

Maybe Honeycutt put in some serious work...

2007-07-15 14:43:30
278.   Branch Rickey
271. I actually agree
2007-07-15 14:43:38
279.   Suffering Bruin
Fantasy headaches: I started Abreu and Damon today because Edwin Jackson as on the mound. The Yankees scored 6 runs... and my guys went 0-9.
2007-07-15 14:46:12
280.   bhsportsguy
Kemp and Loney have 15% of the plate appearances during this time period. They are certainly better than the players who got those at bats before.

But unless the other guys were hitting too, the improvement would not be as pronounced.

2007-07-15 14:46:50
281.   Greg Brock
I didn't like re-signing Nomar, but never, in a million years, did I think he would be out OPSed by certain other players.

I agree, Nomar isn't this bad. But the gooder Nomar won't be that much gooder.

2007-07-15 14:47:38
282.   D4P
When the powers that be evaluate Tomko's performance today and what it means for his future with the team, I hope they keep in mind that he's facing one of the worst offenses in the league.
2007-07-15 14:48:32
283.   Lexinthedena
282- Good point...I hadn't really thought about that...
2007-07-15 14:48:48
284.   Retire 55
Super duper little experiment today, Grady. Please let it be the last time
2007-07-15 14:49:00
285.   Suffering Bruin
Bonds is yakking.

God doesn't like me this much, does he?

2007-07-15 14:49:13
286.   bhsportsguy
I an going to wait to comment about Bonds but all I can say is wow.
2007-07-15 14:50:06
287.   Greg Brock
282 But he won't even have a quality start if he gets pinch-hit for.

Tomko isn't going anywhere. I've made peace with it. We all should.

2007-07-15 14:50:36
288.   Lexinthedena
maybe this will give Brett a little trade value...
2007-07-15 14:51:12
289.   NorCal-Dodger
2007-07-15 14:51:43
290.   silverwidow
Gotta love Tomko throwing a hissy fit at the end of the inning. Just another reason why I can't stand the guy.
2007-07-15 14:51:53
291.   Greg Brock
Kemp has had a monster series.

"Let's tell him what he's won...It's...A trip back to the bench!"

2007-07-15 14:52:01
292.   JT Dutch
... Realistically, Tomko should have given up only one run. He pitched pretty well.
2007-07-15 14:52:02
293.   Branch Rickey
280. Are you sure? Take a look at everone other than Loney/Kemp since the switch. And again, their hits create more opportunities for everyone else.
2007-07-15 14:52:57
294.   bhsportsguy
287 Okay, please note that Pierre, Nomar and Tomko have all reached Fredo status for GB.
2007-07-15 14:53:13
295.   MJW101
Nomar has been declining for a number of years. His decline just became more precipitous after last years ASG break. He may be past redemption.

Unfortunately, that is $18M down the drain, not to mention the waste of a roster spot.

2007-07-15 14:53:31
296.   Lexinthedena
290- How do you know he threw a hissy fit?
2007-07-15 14:53:46
297.   NorCal-Dodger
5 innings by Tomko, 3 runs just 1 earned, we'll take that. But hopefully not on a regular basis.
2007-07-15 14:54:01
298.   confucius
They should have used Saenz there. I don't know why that don't use him against a lefty when they have the chance.
2007-07-15 14:54:11
299.   Greg Brock
294 I like Nomar. I feel for a guy whose skills have diminished.

The other two just aren't very good baseballers.

2007-07-15 14:54:21
300.   silverwidow
296-He mouthed the "F" word pretty clearly.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-07-15 14:54:54
301.   NorCal-Dodger
Now Tomko stands to win, if the bullpen can hold.
2007-07-15 14:55:20
302.   Suffering Bruin
290 If you're talking about what he did coming off the mound, I think he was upset he gave up a run. That's not a hissy fit.
2007-07-15 14:55:26
303.   Lexinthedena
Squeeze it in baby!
2007-07-15 14:55:44
304.   El Lay Dave
Raffy puts Tomko in position to win. Win - think about that.
2007-07-15 14:56:07
305.   bhsportsguy
293 By using the math I learned in elementary school plus a spreadsheet application, all I did was take the team's totals and subtract Matt/James totals and I got the numbers I got.

So, unless you are implying that there is some mathmatic formula that makes their hits have a higher value, I stand by the numbers that the team even without their numbers is hitting and getting on base better since the hitting coach change.

2007-07-15 14:56:43
306.   JT Dutch

... Looked to me that he was just unhappy about the pitch he threw to Durham. I don't see what's so wrong there; I would want my players to be competitors.

2007-07-15 14:57:29
307.   Suffering Bruin
Squeeze, please...
2007-07-15 14:58:03
308.   Bob Timmermann
Since moving to L.A., the Dodgers have never had more than 3 triples in one game.

They had three triples in a game at Arizona last year on May 2. And they lost that game.

2007-07-15 14:58:19
309.   NorCal-Dodger
JP! Nice...execution
2007-07-15 14:58:28
310.   bluedog
Way to go Juan!
2007-07-15 14:58:36
311.   Lexinthedena
Whoa Vinny!...Excitement!....caused me to jump...
2007-07-15 14:58:37
312.   Suffering Bruin
Thank you.
2007-07-15 14:58:40
313.   JT Dutch
... WOW. Little even surprised me with that. I thought for sure that they would put the take sign on with a 3-1 count.
2007-07-15 14:59:27
314.   El Lay Dave
313 Does Grady even HAVE a take sign?
2007-07-15 14:59:53
315.   El Lay Dave
Nice execution by JP on the Charmin play.
2007-07-15 15:00:28
316.   D4P
Does Grady even HAVE a take sign?

We bunt here 3-1.

2007-07-15 15:00:31
317.   Suffering Bruin
The way Vinny set up that play and called that play is what separates him from 90% of the announcers calling games today. He didn't overdo it or give the idea short shrift. He called it perfectly.
2007-07-15 15:00:36
318.   JT Dutch

... With Pierre, he had better.

2007-07-15 15:01:43
319.   bhsportsguy
305 Sorry BR, don't mean to sound so cranky, I just added the numbers and put them out there for everyone to take a look.

I get what you are saying, from a subjective point, Loney and Kemp have impacted the team much more their numbers say they have and their numbers are great but its not like their success alone boosted the offense, it has been a team effort.

2007-07-15 15:01:59
320.   Marty
I'm playing an online poker tournament right now. But there is another going on that has Daniel Negreanu in it. It's pretty amusing seeing all the comments from observers.
2007-07-15 15:02:39
321.   Greg Brock
316 You take what you can get when particular hitters are at the plate.

But a meek groundout to second would have done the same job.

2007-07-15 15:02:49
322.   NorCal-Dodger
320 Full Tilt??
2007-07-15 15:03:17
323.   bhsportsguy
320 PokerStars, ahh I remember those days.
2007-07-15 15:03:36
324.   Marty
Poker Stars
2007-07-15 15:03:48
325.   overkill94
300 If you don't like players that swear when they play then you would hate Russell
2007-07-15 15:04:06
326.   Greg Brock
320 Is it reverence, or is it "Oh man, I can't believe he played those rags. I would have done better"?
2007-07-15 15:04:16
327.   Branch Rickey
The before and after included K/L. Dont know if the other numbers were what the team did when K/L weren't playing or the team all year minus K/L or what. I think adding two guys with freaky high numbers is a more plausible explination for success than is the hypothesis that Mueller is such a superior hitting coach that he can turn hitters around in mere weeks.
Im posting from an iphone so I'll have to defer for now.
2007-07-15 15:05:07
328.   Marty
A mixture. The weirdest thing is people are apparently emailing him money somehow.
2007-07-15 15:05:16
329.   Bob Timmermann
Wouldn't the best the Giants have to offer include Tim Lincecum?
2007-07-15 15:06:35
330.   Lexinthedena
Kemp is listed as 6'2 no?...he looks even taller than that...
2007-07-15 15:07:48
331.   D4P
This Giants team sucks. There's no way the GM should be getting an extension. Their fans should be insulted.
2007-07-15 15:08:25
332.   El Lay Dave
327 Im posting from an iphone
Showoff! ;)
2007-07-15 15:09:33
333.   Bob Timmermann
Have we heard yet that Rich Aurilia used to move sets at the Metropolitan Opera?
2007-07-15 15:10:08
334.   bhsportsguy
327 We can defer for now, if you are one of the 39 DTers and friends at DT Day, I will be happy to debate further.
2007-07-15 15:10:27
335.   Suffering Bruin
331 Yeah, but the owner says he's sold on the plan Sabean presented so it's a good thing. I say this as a Dodger fan. :)
2007-07-15 15:10:48
336.   Greg Brock
331 I would submit that no single player in baseball history has affected the construction of an entire roster like Bonds has with the Giants.

And since 2002, it's been a debacle.

2007-07-15 15:10:58
337.   D4P
Rich Aurilia used to move sets at the Metropolitan Opera

He shouldn't have quit his day job.

2007-07-15 15:11:21
338.   bhsportsguy
332 I let that comment go. :)
2007-07-15 15:11:39
339.   Suffering Bruin
332 How are those things? Are they worth the hype? You love 'em? An inquiring mind wants to know.
2007-07-15 15:12:39
340.   D4P
I would submit that no single player in baseball history has affected the construction of an entire roster like Bonds has with the Giants

The thing I don't understand is why putting a bunch of .700 OPS veterans around Bonds was the optimum strategy for getting him and the team a ring. This seems to be taken for granted, but I don't get it.

2007-07-15 15:13:41
341.   Suffering Bruin
339 should've been directed at 327 and not 332 so I'm using 340 to indicate as much.
2007-07-15 15:14:24
342.   Branch Rickey
334. Haven't decided yet. I'd really like to meet you and many of the others but if you can't tell, I'm a little bitter right now. Trying to get past it!

332. What's the fun of having one if you can't show off! Actually, I usually hide it in public for fear of looking like the guy who has to show off his iPhone. But I must say that this site is so totally accessible and it is so easy to view and post, it almost looks like Apple considered DT in designing the darn thing. Just sick.

2007-07-15 15:14:44
343.   NorCal-Dodger
331 Living in the Bay area, listening to all the Gnats fatalists and Bonds' cultist's, the path the team is going, puts a smile on my face! Read the sports page in regards to the Gnats for my 'joke'of the day'
2007-07-15 15:15:23
344.   moodhairboy
I follow on my iphone instead of my blackberry. It's easier for me to use.
2007-07-15 15:15:25
345.   Suffering Bruin
340 Because veterans produce more than kids and know ow to deal with playoff pressure. I thought we talked about this?
2007-07-15 15:16:45
346.   trainwreck
Nomar hit that one far.
2007-07-15 15:16:47
347.   Suffering Bruin
340 Because vets know how to deal with post-season pressure. I thought we talked about this?
2007-07-15 15:17:34
348.   Suffering Bruin
And no, I don't know how the double post happened.


One day, I'll learn how to use the internet.

2007-07-15 15:17:43
349.   Marty
My Blackberry is useless for DT.
2007-07-15 15:18:22
350.   trainwreck
My phone is a phone.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-07-15 15:18:23
351.   King of the Hobos
Gurnick seems to think that the next releiver to be recalled will be Roberto Hernandez. It doesn't sound like Gurnick is privy to any real information on the matter, although with Ned's history, going with Hernandez over Meloan doesn't sound too far off.
2007-07-15 15:18:50
352.   Greg Brock
SB is getting lost in the series of tubes.
2007-07-15 15:19:50
353.   Bob Timmermann
The BlackBerry has trouble with the long threads and there also issues with having the browser remember that you're logged in.

It also sucks up battery power fast.

2007-07-15 15:20:35
354.   Marty
353 Yeah, I can't seem to ever get logged in.
2007-07-15 15:23:12
355.   Suffering Bruin
352 LOL. That remains the single funniest political soundbite I have heard this year.
2007-07-15 15:24:19
356.   Marty
352 Too bad it isn't a dump truck.
2007-07-15 15:24:23
357.   Greg Brock
355 Ted Stevens, the pride (?) of UCLA.
2007-07-15 15:24:55
358.   Bob Timmermann
After you log on, you have to refresh the page for it to show that you logged in. The BlackBerry has a weird way of caching pages.
2007-07-15 15:27:00
359.   Branch Rickey
The iPhone not only CAN handle DT, it's like I said, it seems designed for it. You can hold the phone vertically and keep the screen small and see maybe 10-12 posts at a time. When you flip the phone horizontally, it fills the screen with maybe 2-3 comments. When you tap on the comment box, it fills the screen with it and brings up the keyboard. After a week I can tell you I can type much faster on it than I can on a Treo (which I had for years). MUCH faster.
Flip it back vertically and hit refresh and you're back to the 10-12 posts with your latest at the bottom. Almost as easy as posting from home and a lot more fun! I must admit, I have read and even posted comments while driving... today.
Only thing missing is a spell check.
BTW, I'm home now so this is NOT posted from my iPhone.
2007-07-15 15:27:00
360.   Lexinthedena
Russ, would you cut that out!
2007-07-15 15:27:25
361.   Greg Brock
Not a fan of trying to back-pick a runner on first with another guy on second.

The ball has a way of ending up in right field.

2007-07-15 15:27:59
362.   overkill94
Vin can be so mean sometimes
2007-07-15 15:28:15
363.   Suffering Bruin
357 I had to look it up. He graduated from Harvard Law School as well. Of course, back then, they actually used trucks and tubes.
2007-07-15 15:28:16
364.   Greg Brock
Let's see if BH jinxed the Dodgers with his Bonds proclamation.
2007-07-15 15:28:30
365.   StolenMonkey86
362 - what'd he say?
2007-07-15 15:29:28
366.   Bob Timmermann
Most of that Visa commercial was shot in L.A. The store where everybody was buying stuff was actually a Famima!! at 6th and Grand.
2007-07-15 15:30:26
367.   Suffering Bruin
365 Something like "the crowd cheering now for Bonds to do something... anything..."
2007-07-15 15:30:50
368.   StolenMonkey86
I'm sure it's been said, but Beimel looks scarrier than last year, when you couldn't see his eyes in his gameday picture.
2007-07-15 15:31:10
369.   NorCal-Dodger
Ha-ha ha..Bonds did something alright
2007-07-15 15:31:15
370.   overkill94
Bonds's longest hitless streak since...?
2007-07-15 15:31:16
371.   JT Dutch
... Unbelievable the way the Dodgers have handled Bonds in this series.
2007-07-15 15:31:24
372.   StolenMonkey86
2007-07-15 15:31:29
373.   bluedog
Barry looks so good striking out!
2007-07-15 15:31:36
374.   Suffering Bruin
God doesn't like me this much!
2007-07-15 15:31:41
375.   Greg Brock
Bonds stinking makes me happy.

You stink, stinky!

2007-07-15 15:32:53
376.   Lexinthedena
On three pitches no less.....
2007-07-15 15:33:04
377.   NorCal-Dodger
We gotta hold and win this for the Tomko!
2007-07-15 15:33:20
378.   dkminnick
From the album "Treadmill to Oblivion" comes the smash hit, "Absolutely Humiliated."
2007-07-15 15:34:15
379.   D4P
We gotta hold and win this for the Tomko!

So Grittle will (continue to) think he's a good pitcher and keep him on the roster for the rest of the year!

2007-07-15 15:34:24
380.   Jon Weisman
Before that groundout, Kemp and Loney were each 35 for 91 this season. Kemp had had five straight hits, I believe.
2007-07-15 15:34:34
381.   Suffering Bruin
I think this week he really was using flax seed oil.
2007-07-15 15:35:24
382.   StolenMonkey86
381 - or eating trader joes peanut butter
2007-07-15 15:36:04
383.   D4P
Or the "cream" really was just cream.
2007-07-15 15:36:10
384.   Bob Timmermann
Bonds had a 0 for 21 stretch in 2001 (4/5-4/12) and longer ones early in his career.
2007-07-15 15:36:55
385.   Suffering Bruin
383 Dammit! That's the line I was looking for.
2007-07-15 15:37:26
386.   Bob Timmermann
Thanks for helping me relive that nightmare.

I had to go eat a pizza with garlic, anchovies, and capers to get that taste out of my mouth.

2007-07-15 15:37:28
387.   NorCal-Dodger
379 No, but hopefully his trade value will go up
2007-07-15 15:39:49
388.   Lexinthedena
Should have left Biemel in...
2007-07-15 15:40:18
389.   D4P
So: what was the "Better than Peanut Butter" made of? Did it contain nuts, or some kind of nut substitute?
2007-07-15 15:40:19
390.   Greg Brock
Goodness, the Giants aren't a very good baseball team. Some young pitching, but no farm system and Bonds on the way out and various and sundry veteran detritus.
2007-07-15 15:41:13
391.   Bob Timmermann
The pitchers in that 2001 cold spell for Bonds included Luke Prokopec, Matt Herges, Jeff Shaw, Eric Gagne (starter version), Kevin Jarvis, Jay Witasick, Bobby Jones, and Dave Maurer.
2007-07-15 15:42:14
392.   Bob Timmermann
Oh, and Chan Ho Park.
2007-07-15 15:42:16
393.   Suffering Bruin
An LOL comment from McCovey Chronicles:

Free Greg Anderson!!!

2007-07-15 15:43:07
394.   Bob Timmermann
I believe it contained recycled tires, peach pits, and brown food coloring.
2007-07-15 15:43:17
395.   Suffering Bruin
... various and sundry veteran detritus.

My man GB is on fire!

2007-07-15 15:43:57
396.   Lexinthedena
Giants will push hard for A-Rod, or Andruw next year...
2007-07-15 15:44:12
397.   Suffering Bruin
Not this again...
2007-07-15 15:46:20
398.   Greg Brock
395 The Giants being terrible brings out the best in all of us.

There should be a massive firesale of this whole team. Trade everybody. Trade the bullpen catcher.

2007-07-15 15:46:48
399.   Suffering Bruin
Seriously? We're going through this again?
2007-07-15 15:47:02
400.   StolenMonkey86
can you trade a bullpen catcher?

Or a manager?

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-07-15 15:47:42
401.   Suffering Bruin
Hey, I'm with you GB. I just love the use of sundry and detritus.
2007-07-15 15:47:42
402.   Uncle Miltie
Beimel looked terrific today - I probably would have left him in, but I don't blame Grits for bringing in Broxton.

I would bring in Saito now.

2007-07-15 15:47:47
403.   bhsportsguy
And everyone wonders why they keep talking about a bullpen guy.
2007-07-15 15:47:51
404.   Curtis Lowe
I dont get it.

Is this a joke?

2007-07-15 15:48:06
405.   D4P
I believe it contained recycled tires, peach pits, and brown food coloring

Is this it...?

2007-07-15 15:48:54
406.   Suffering Bruin
Needed that first strike call. Needed it bad.
2007-07-15 15:49:03
407.   StolenMonkey86
I'm imagining something like this in that coaching visit

"Jonathan, you need to trust your stuff. Now throw a cutter."
"But I don't throw a cutter."
"Of course you do."

2007-07-15 15:49:18
408.   Bob Timmermann
2007-07-15 15:49:24
409.   Lexinthedena
Will Young get moved for a guy like Dotel?
2007-07-15 15:49:40
410.   Suffering Bruin
403 I admit I am one of those in the "everyone" category.
2007-07-15 15:50:41
411.   D4P
Will Young get moved for a guy like Dotel?

Only time will tel.

2007-07-15 15:50:47
412.   Lexinthedena
Roberts can be overpowered...
2007-07-15 15:50:49
413.   Vaudeville Villain

Wouldn't that be funny if the Giants got A-Rod and then decided they needed to surround him with even more veteran "talent"?

2007-07-15 15:51:13
414.   D4P
I bet Bettern'PeanutButter goes well with marmite.
2007-07-15 15:51:29
415.   StolenMonkey86
413 - like the Texas Rangers?
2007-07-15 15:52:01
416.   StolenMonkey86
414- You eat the marmite to get the Bettern'PeanutButter taste out
2007-07-15 15:52:05
417.   Greg Brock
It would be nice if Broxton had a changeup.
2007-07-15 15:52:25
418.   NorCal-Dodger
2007-07-15 15:52:37
419.   Suffering Bruin
Aw yeah!
2007-07-15 15:52:51
420.   StolenMonkey86
2007-07-15 15:52:51
421.   Vaudeville Villain

Yeah, pretty much. Brian Sabean might be the worst GM in baseball.

2007-07-15 15:53:01
422.   Curtis Lowe
2007-07-15 15:53:35
423.   Uncle Miltie
Tremendous pitch by Broxton. I was waiting for him to throw the slider.
2007-07-15 15:53:37
424.   D4P
Dave Roberts is one of those starting centerfielders who's really more of a pinch runner.
2007-07-15 15:53:45
425.   Greg Brock
Slider works!

I still wish he had a changeup.

2007-07-15 15:53:54
426.   overkill94
409 I wish we would only have to give up Delwyn. The price of a Proven Closer™ is pretty high these days
2007-07-15 15:54:01
427.   NorCal-Dodger
Guess, Saito will get to face BB.
2007-07-15 15:54:02
428.   StolenMonkey86
I like how Sabean and the Rangers GM both got extentions.
2007-07-15 15:54:25
429.   Suffering Bruin
421 Who's running the Pirates? I forget his name but he's worse.
2007-07-15 15:55:08
430.   StolenMonkey86
Littlefield, I believe
2007-07-15 15:55:12
431.   Marty
429 Dave Littlefield!
2007-07-15 15:55:15
432.   Lexinthedena
413-I can totally see that...The Giants aquire a hated slugger and then keep Durham, Aurililia, sign Shawn Green...etc...I love it...
2007-07-15 15:55:51
433.   Suffering Bruin
The ESPN duo of Miller & Morgan are addressing the Sheffield comments right now. They sound like guys walking through a minefield.
2007-07-15 15:56:00
434.   StolenMonkey86
regfairfield, are you planning on a rematch for the worst gm in baseball anytime soon?
2007-07-15 15:56:35
435.   Marty
Morgan will say Torre needs to be more consistently racist.
2007-07-15 15:56:38
436.   Vaudeville Villain

I don't know, the Giants have had the advantage of a bigger payroll and Barry Bonds. Anonymous Pittsburgh Guy has been pretty terrible, but he did get Jason Bay and Adam La Roche.

2007-07-15 15:57:13
437.   D4P
It wasn't exactly a secret, as general manager Ned Colletti and Sunday starter Brett Tomko sat on a sofa in the middle of the Dodgers clubhouse after Saturday's win and talked.

When Tomko spoke with reporters Friday, he hinted that he would soon meet with Colletti to discuss his future with the club, immediate and long-term. Tomko would not go into details about the conversation, but said it was productive.

I bet Depo never had sofa-side chats...

2007-07-15 15:57:13
438.   Bob Timmermann
I've heard rumors that Shawn Green may be DFA'd if Moises Alou ever gets healthy again.
2007-07-15 15:57:39
439.   StolenMonkey86
is Betemit on deck?
2007-07-15 15:57:46
440.   Lexinthedena
436- I agree...Littlefield is actually building a nice's just that Pirate ownership HATES to spend money....
2007-07-15 15:58:51
441.   Greg Brock
428 Jon Daniels is relatively new to the job. Sabean is just bad.

429 I have to go with every Pirates GM from Cam Bonifay to today as the worst.

Andy MacPhail is good at MacPhailing upwards as well.

2007-07-15 16:00:55
442.   Lexinthedena
Kevin Malone was the worst ever....

Who was the Oriols guy?...Sid Thryft?

2007-07-15 16:01:22
443.   Suffering Bruin
Morgan will say Torre needs to be more consistently racist.

Excuse me while I wipe the water from my laptop...

2007-07-15 16:01:23
444.   Greg Brock
435 Nice.

Joe actually can't comment on Torre's racism because he hasn't seen him be racist enough.

2007-07-15 16:02:32
445.   Mark Joseph
If I calculated correctly, Betemit's OPS coming in to today's game was .846.
2007-07-15 16:03:02
446.   StolenMonkey86
442 - The Orioles' GM is leashed by Peter Angelos.
2007-07-15 16:03:07
447.   overkill94
Run Russell, run!
2007-07-15 16:03:09
448.   Suffering Bruin
Yes, they have to be patient... but should they be patient?
2007-07-15 16:04:43
449.   overkill94
With LuGo starting to show his age a bit I hope he gets more days off to let the Kemp and Ethier show run through town
2007-07-15 16:05:45
450.   Lexinthedena
Nomar looks aweful...just aweful....
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-07-15 16:05:55
451.   Bob Timmermann
Good news for Giants fans!

Russ Ortiz threw a simulated game today and he seems to be close to coming back.

2007-07-15 16:06:25
452.   overkill94
Gagne's in to close against the Angels if anyone wants to take a trip down memory lane
2007-07-15 16:08:26
453.   Suffering Bruin
452 I'm checking it out. His fastball is at 92.
2007-07-15 16:08:43
454.   Marty
Russ Ortiz threw a simulated game today

Isn't that pretty much all he does?

2007-07-15 16:09:25
455.   Bob Timmermann
Saito attempting to become the first Dodger to blow three straight save opportunities since last year when Baez blew four in a row.
2007-07-15 16:10:10
456.   StolenMonkey86
Gagne's fastball topping out at 91, change at 83, curve around 68. He just got a k for the 2nd out.

Time for Saito.

2007-07-15 16:10:27
457.   Lexinthedena
455- Is he really attempting that feat?
2007-07-15 16:11:33
458.   Bob Timmermann
Bob Welch blew three straight save opportunities but it took him six seasons to do so. He blew two in 1979 and then he had a save opportunity in 1984 and blew that one.
2007-07-15 16:12:25
459.   Lexinthedena
Abreu's got hands man....
2007-07-15 16:13:05
460.   NorCal-Dodger
458 He was saving it for Reggie
2007-07-15 16:13:27
461.   Suffering Bruin
458 Oh my God!

Great stuff and where do you get it? Is this all baseball reference?

2007-07-15 16:14:02
462.   jasonungar07
A little k looking to end the game and series by Bonds here would be fitting.
2007-07-15 16:14:10
463.   Suffering Bruin
I mean,
2007-07-15 16:14:24
464.   StolenMonkey86
Saito now with a 6" break on his fastball
2007-07-15 16:14:51
465.   jasonungar07
A pop up works.
2007-07-15 16:14:57
466.   Greg Brock
We win!

I'm off the Blair Field to watch exciting American Legion action.

Best. Series. Ever.

2007-07-15 16:15:20
467.   NorCal-Dodger
Now if we can only get the Pods to dress in black and orange next time we head down south to dog-food park!
2007-07-15 16:15:38
468.   D4P
When one team wins all of the games in a series with another team, I like to say that they "mopped" the other team.
2007-07-15 16:15:56
469.   Gen3Blue
Ahhhh, the perfect climax!
2007-07-15 16:16:04
470.   Bob Timmermann
Dodger blown save streaks:
2007-07-15 16:16:05
471.   Suffering Bruin
462 I like the harmless popups, too!

This is just too much fun.

2007-07-15 16:17:57
472.   bhsportsguy
Ice cream for everyone at Dodger Stadium tomorrow.
2007-07-15 16:18:53
473.   Suffering Bruin
The human sub-woofer, Harry Kalas, is now behind the mike on ESPN.
2007-07-15 16:19:13
474.   StolenMonkey86
I was just wondering "when was the last time Bonds when 0-5" and then realized it was yesterday, although he had a walk in that one.
2007-07-15 16:20:06
475.   bhsportsguy
This series should end all the talk about Bonds sitting out games during this road trip. Let him get to 754 first before you get to that kind of talk.
2007-07-15 16:21:23
476.   StolenMonkey86
I just wonder when was the last time Bonds when 0-5 two games in a row?
2007-07-15 16:24:15
477.   Mark Joseph
Just to enjoy the history; feel free to crosspost this to McCovey's Chronicles ;-)

13 consecutive wins in SF:

8/1/1976, game 1, 4-1, Sutton beats Barr, Hough gets the save, Buckner goes 3-4 with a walk and 3 runs scored.

8/1/1976, game 2, 4-3 in 10 innings, Hough beats Heaverlo, Giants score 2 in the ninth off of Rhoden to tie, Dodgers get a run in the 10th on a sac fly by Bill Russell.

9/21/1976, 3-2, Rau beats Moffitt, save for Hough, Cey homers in the 8th to break a 2-2 tie. Another three-hit game for Buckner.

9/22/1976, 3-1, Sutton beats Knepper for his 20th win on a CG six-hitter.

9/23/1976, 4-1, Hooton beats Montefusco on a CG three-hitter.

4/15/1977, 7-1, Rau beats Halicki, Reggie Smith hits two-run home runs in the first and third innings.

4/16/1977, 5-0, Hooten beats McGlothen on a CG five-hit shutout, another two-run home run in the first inning for Reggie Smith.

4/17/1977, 7-6, Hough beats Moffitt, behind 6-5 after seven, the Dodgers get two in the 8th on a Cey home run, walk to Garvey, and double by Lacy.

7/1/1977, 10-5, Rau beats Charlie Williams, Dodgers get 17 hits, including 2 doubles, 3 triples (didn't Bob mentions this earlier in this thread?) and 2 HR. The triples were by Lopes, Yeager, and Reggie Smith.

7/2/1977, 10-3, Hooten beats Knepper, Hooten CG, Dodgers get 13 hits, including two more triples (Russell and Garvey).

7/3/1977, 10-7, John beats Barr, save for Garman, Cey went 5-5 with two doubles, 2 runs, 4 RBI, Garvey kept the triple barrage going.

7/4/1977, 4-0, Sutton beats Halicki on a CG three-hit shutout, triple of the day is provided by Reggie Smith. Cey is 3-4 with 2 RBI.

9/20/1977, 3-1, John beats Halicki, save for Rautzhan, Dodgers get all three runs in the second inning when Garvey singles, steals second, scores on a double by Baker, and Monday homers.

The next day they lost, 5-4.

For the record, except for the 1984 Tigers, the 1977 Dodgers were the best team I ever saw.

2007-07-15 16:24:34
478.   bhsportsguy
476 Bob can find it and then let Vin credit the boys in the truck for that information.
2007-07-15 16:25:31
479.   StolenMonkey86
Ok, April 8th and 10th of 2001. The Giants won both of those games, acutally.
2007-07-15 16:25:53
480.   Bob Timmermann
April 8, 2001 at LA
0 for 5, K, 8, 6 vs Gagne, K vs Nunez, 2F vs Shaw
April 10, 2001 at SD
0 for 5, K, 8 vs Jarvis, 5 vs Witasick, 7 and 6-3 ground out vs Maurer.
2007-07-15 16:26:57
481.   Bob Timmermann
And the 2001 season ended up pretty well for Bonds if I recall.
2007-07-15 16:27:29
482.   StolenMonkey86
There was no game on April 9th. April 8th was the last game of the series against LA, and April 10th was the first one against San Diego. The opposing starting pitchers were Eric Gagne and Kevin Jarvis.
2007-07-15 16:28:36
483.   StolenMonkey86
480 - nicely detailed
2007-07-15 16:28:39
484.   Jon Weisman
468 - Swiffered?
2007-07-15 16:29:50
485.   Bob Timmermann
2007-07-15 16:30:19
486.   Gagne55
479480 Gasp. Bob got beat.
2007-07-15 16:37:42
487.   Bob Timmermann
I celebrated by giving my cat a dose of Vaseline. He's treating it like I treated my Trader Joe's peanut butter.
2007-07-15 16:37:46
488.   StolenMonkey86
486 - 22 seconds for each out and pitcher is pretty good, though. I don't think I coulda done that
2007-07-15 16:38:59
489.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers have morphed into the 2005 White Sox, according to the AP summary:

"While the Giants wait for Barry Bonds to hit another long ball, the Los Angeles Dodgers played small ball to beat their archrival again."

2007-07-15 16:39:40
490.   jasonungar07
still bitter about the butter.
2007-07-15 16:42:08
491.   Bob Timmermann
I think I need to send in the Miller Beer truck driver to Trader Joe's to repossess that peanut butter.
2007-07-15 16:43:46
492.   D4P
Swiffer Wet-jetted...?
2007-07-15 16:47:40
493.   Suffering Bruin
489 Two successful squeeze plays will have on impact on lede writing.
2007-07-15 16:49:13
494.   Bob Timmermann
If we're going to be the 2005 White Sox, we might as well trade Kemp for Jose Contreras!
2007-07-15 16:49:58
495.   Marty
I'm off to make a peach pie.
2007-07-15 16:52:12
496.   D4P
George Costanza: "That's pie country. They do a lot of baking up there."
Jerry Seinfeld: "They sell them by the side of the road. Blueberry blackberry."
George: "Blackberry boysenberry."
Jerry: "Boysenberry huckleberry."
George: "Huckleberry raspberry."
Jerry: "Raspberry strawberry."
George: "Strawberry cranberry."
Jerry: "Peach."
2007-07-15 16:52:49
497.   Chiron Brown
Wow. What a series for the kids. KLEM (Kemp,Loney,Ethier,Martin) went a combined 23 for 43. Add in Betemit and Abreu and it's 29 for 55. I have visions of rings dancing in my head.
2007-07-15 16:58:41
498.   imperabo
Nomar badly needs to be released. His SLG is lower than Pierre's.
2007-07-15 17:00:56
499.   LAT
438 Bob, you just checking to see if I'm out here ;-)

"heard rumors" -- Does that mean someone within baseball or the Mets told you that as opposed to reading it somewhere. Can you expound on where you learned of this rumor. I have an inquiring mind in my house who would like details.

2007-07-15 17:13:11
500.   Robert Daeley
So silverwidow's "Sunday is now a guaranteed loss" comment last Thursday was followed up with the "hissy fit" comment today. Funny how he/she/it wasn't able to muster positive (or any other) comments during today's victory.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2007-07-15 17:15:18
501.   ToyCannon
Good job Brett, the Giants may be a sad offensive team but he still did the job.
Hard to believe that Noah Lowry once was someone I feared.

D Young has to be the hottest hitter in the minor leagues right now. 57 EBH. He couldn't have timed it better as we head into trading deadline time.

2007-07-15 17:26:23
502.   Gen3Blue
I'm back from familial duties and revelling in sweet series sweep victory.
Could SW be a closet Giants fan?
Did Bob read it or hear it?
Will Doc. Technical make it into Battle?
Who knows? Who cares?
As long as the D's don't make a stupid trade, which probably boils down to as long as the D's don't make a trade.
2007-07-15 17:27:38
503.   oswald
i'm pretty frustrated with nomar, too. but, in contrast to many of the commenters here, instead of feeling disdain for the guy, i genuinely feel bad for him. this year can't be easy for him and considering what he did for the team last year and what a good guy he is, i really feel for him. i'm pulling for him to turn it around even if that means a stint on the dl.
2007-07-15 17:34:59
504.   StolenMonkey86
491 - "This isn't the high life, this is the low life!"
2007-07-15 17:36:14
505.   Andrew Shimmin
496- That's not a proper joke!

Apropos of something a couple hundred comments back. . .I think it's unlikely that the BP team is willing to tank its predictions because they don't like that McCourt fired their boy. It's pretty easy to guess what Sheehan doesn't like about Colletti, without looking for ricochet grudges.

2007-07-15 17:37:43
506.   Gen3Blue
503 I understand your tilt, and was trying to convey this in (I think)242.
2007-07-15 18:01:15
507.   Woody
Though I love Nomar and feel very sad to see the level to which he's devolved (my second favorite team is the Red Sox having spent most of my adult life in Vermont), I can't agree that he should be the everyday 3rd baseman at this point. You can see it on his face, recently every time he looks impotent. I think we've got to play the guy who will give us the most production, now, and at least recently it seems like Betemit. I'd love to see Nomar turn it around, and I think it's possible, but if he needs to sit awhile, so be it.
2007-07-15 18:02:58
508.   Gen3Blue
The BP guys have rarely been clearer, or more abrasive. It will be interesting and also easy to follow this.
2007-07-15 18:24:58
509.   Gen3Blue
Can anyone help me with this one. I remember(perhaps as a teen or twenty) watching Eric Young come up through our system. At the time it was probably VB, San Antonio, and Albaquerque. He came up in step with another middle infielder and I don't think it was Anderson. But I think it was another guy with a one or two syllable last name. It's killing me.
Somehow it reminds me of Abrue and Hu, although the first pair probably weren't as good. Then cam a pair of successive third basemen, Hamilton and Hansen, I think. Always in pairs.
2007-07-15 18:27:22
510.   oswald
506 sorry, didn't see your comment. i wasn't saying that everyone was doing this, but enough have that it bothers me.
2007-07-15 18:28:52
511.   Andrew Shimmin
509- Rafael Bournigal?
2007-07-15 18:30:19
512.   bhsportsguy
Meloan picked up save number 18 today so he is not on a plane to Los Angeles.
2007-07-15 18:30:48
513.   Andrew Shimmin
Offerman was a little ahead, but would have spent part of 1991, at least, with EY.
2007-07-15 18:37:04
514.   Andrew Shimmin
Eddie Pye has a monosyllabic surname and came up a little ahead of EY, but would have been in Albuquerque at the same time.
2007-07-15 18:52:13
515.   Gen3Blue
511 Don't think so-it was a simple name like Young. Its so faint it could also be imagination.
510 No apologee needed; I think our feeling is the appropriate one, and hate to see him bashed.
513,514 Excellent ideas, but no. This could be imag. Or maybe it is someone even earlier. But I remember dreaming of this DP team that never materialized
2007-07-15 18:54:24
516.   trainwreck
Is there going to be an open thread on Screen Jam for tonight's episodes? JFC took it too another level tonight.

Mark-Paul Gosselaar is going to now be on the show. Dylan from 90210, Al Bundy, and Zach from Saved by the Bell all on the same show. It is insanity.

2007-07-15 18:55:02
517.   trainwreck
*JFC took it to
2007-07-15 18:58:14
518.   bhsportsguy
Shawn Green wants a hug
N.Y. Times article on new Met's hitting coach.

But to say that a hitting coach is in charge of only hitting is to minimize the importance of one of the more multifaceted jobs in baseball. Almost in equal parts, a hitting coach must be a teacher, a friend, a communicator, a psychologist, a father figure and a comedian. At various times during the Mets' hourlong batting practice before last night's game against the Cincinnati Reds, Johnson resembled them all.

He tutored José Valentín on hitting to the opposite field. He reminded Carlos Beltrán to spray the ball to all parts of the field. He cracked jokes with David Wright. He put his arm around Damion Easley while making a point.

"A lot of the job is being a rah-rah guy," Shawn Green said. "We all know how to hit or else we wouldn't be here. Sometimes all we want is to be held and told that everything's going to be all right."

2007-07-15 19:10:30
519.   Suffering Bruin
Things you learn from a Kareem Abdul-Jabbar youtube clip.

In 1928, Cab Calloway tried out for the Harlem Globetrotters.

Calloway made the team. He decided to follow music instead.

2007-07-15 19:16:19
520.   Gen3Blue
519 It was probably a blessing for both fields of endeavor. Although if he could get defenders to try and emulate his scat dribbling......
2007-07-15 19:21:38
521.   imperabo
I don't have distain for Nomar, but I don't see how anyone can justify playing him at this point. If he's injured he needs to go on the DL. If not he needs to be released. It's one thing to go into a slump, but his performance is so far beneath anything reasonable over the past full season that even a vast improvement could be insufficient.
2007-07-15 19:37:29
522.   oldfan60
Can someone tell me why Delwyn got moved off second base? No range? Hands of stone? Thanks.
2007-07-15 19:40:49
523.   bhsportsguy
And tomorrow's headline will be?

Come on, you knew this was coming so you shouldn't be surprised.

"Little said Tomko earned another start while Wolf recovers from a shoulder impingement. It will come Friday against the Mets at home, where the fans have been very tough on Tomko. He'll worry about that Friday."

2007-07-15 19:40:58
524.   Indiana Jon
509 I think it was Jose Munoz.
2007-07-15 19:41:46
525.   Gen3Blue
I think I remember hearing somewhere he wasn't much of an infielder, but I don't remember specifics. We may have felt crowded with Abrue and Hu coming up.(and JtD was still at SS) It is a very good question.
2007-07-15 19:44:15
526.   Gen3Blue
524 Thanks but no. Now I remember fantasizing about our wasp sounding combo. Of course I hadn't seen Young.
2007-07-15 19:47:41
527.   Gen3Blue
Put Delwyns mind in Delmans body---wow.
2007-07-15 19:53:52
528.   ToyCannon
Stiff hands is what the scouting reports said. He has a good arm so that wasn't the problem. Usually when an infielder gets moved it is a combination of bad hands and bad positioning due to slow feet. Abreu had passed him as a 2nd base prospect.

Did anyone post that Kuo felt pain today and he shut down his thowing program?

2007-07-15 19:54:01
529.   CanuckDodger
522 -- No range AND hands of stone, the double whammy.
2007-07-15 19:55:24
530.   xaphor
523. Tomko gets bombed, DFA'ed and DT day turns into an impromptu Tomko going away party. And there was much rejoicing.
2007-07-15 20:05:43
531.   ToyCannon
I'd much rather see Tomko pitch well and help us win a pennant.
2007-07-15 20:07:05
532.   Bob Timmermann
At last year's DT get-together, Tomko started against the Pirates. Oliver Perez started for the Bucs and was awful and couldn't find home plate. Tomko lasted five innings before leaving with an oblique strain and Jae Seo came in to pitch a four-inning non-save.

Now Perez is the Mets ace. Tomko keeps getting reprieves from the governor. And Jae Seo is in Durham.

What will happen this year?

Beats me, I'll be working.

2007-07-15 20:09:42
533.   bhsportsguy
532 But you'll be commenting for all of us.
2007-07-15 20:15:27
534.   ToyCannon
We can all use Branch Ricky's IPHONE.
2007-07-15 20:16:10
535.   Gen3Blue
528 First I've heard about Kuo and I don't like the sound of it.
Message to big pharma--if I experience anything for more than four hours, I will probably call my "physician" on general principles!
2007-07-15 20:17:25
536.   Andrew Shimmin
534- The password is: MurrayRulesMuellerDrools.
2007-07-15 20:22:25
537.   Andrew Shimmin
536 isn't meant to be a shot, by the way. I don't really care about who the batting coach is. In Colletti's shoes, I'd have used Mueller to replace Rich "Wicked Windmill of the West" Donnelly.
2007-07-15 20:27:51
538.   regfairfield
523 I apologize for attempting to justify the Brett Tomko start. I was assuming this was just to pass time until Houlton could come back to the big club.
2007-07-15 20:46:40
539.   Gen3Blue
537 I don't know what i would think or do if I saw Donnelly waving me in. But I would pray my equipment worked well and I was still wearing a helmet.
2007-07-15 20:47:46
540.   Gen3Blue
537 And I would ask for a second opinion.
2007-07-15 20:49:49
541.   Dodgers49
531. I'd much rather see Tomko pitch well and help us win a pennant.

I'm with you. I can't see Tomko being DFA'ed. He's owed a lot of money and he has a long standing relationship with the GM. If no one will take him in a trade then we're stuck with him. So we may as well root for him to do well either way.

2007-07-15 21:37:42
542.   overkill94
509 Juan Castro was a fairly significant SS prospect in our system back in the day, but he doesn't exactly fit in with your WASP recollection.
2007-07-15 21:53:54
543.   Andrew Shimmin
BBRef has the lists of every Dodger draftee since EY's time (and before). So, if it's bugging you enough, and you think you'd recognize the name on sight, without stats, you could page through those lists.

Here's EY's draft year (there are links to the year before and after at the top of each page):

2007-07-15 22:02:38
544.   Gen3Blue
Thanks Andrew. I'll check it out tomorrow. If BBR had had its curent org. depth charts in the 70/80 period it would be a walk in the park.
2007-07-15 22:11:20
545.   Andrew Shimmin
On the BBRef Play Index front page is the promise:

"Coming this summer
The ability to search through minor league stats"

A nation waits with baited breath.

2007-07-15 22:16:20
546.   bojangles
If I'm repeating, I apologize; only had time for a quick scan of the first 150.
16. Jon, Jon, Jon, Jon, Jon.....
Thirty-somethin'-or-other. Jon, Jon, Jon, Jon, Jon.......
Clear violations of 2,3,4,6, 7 and a host of unwritten others....
St. Vincent of the Rams, five or six or more years ago, was waxing enthusiatic about a fairly nice but repeatable catch by a well-paid professional named Hollandsworth near an outfield wall. Vin's first report (and so the one His Ego-Eminence was forced by his own flawed character to defend) was that Todd had robbed so-and-so of a home run, immensely aiding the Good Guys' cause. Those bothersome new-fangled replays insisted on contradicting him - the liftoff (unnecesaary, as it turned out, since the ball was snagged while on the return to earth) was initiated several feet short of the wall, and the rest of the drama nowhere near the altitude necessary to predict a ball over it that continued its refusal to climb higher with each dance of the humble electrons. I am happy to report to all of you who've been cured of terminal disease just by listening to Saint Vin that he budged not an inch from his original take, full-color contradictions, one after after another, notwithstanding.
Which, of course, leads me to the jaundiced comments of the Head Rascal re: the story of Sad Wilson's Redemption.
Wil was held in low esteem here (turn you away, Andrew Shimmin) because HE WAS STINKIN' UP THE JOINT!!!!!!! I, and others of the Impatient Ilk, as opposed to contrary seers like Grady and y'self, saw him, as the early - season regular sad third-sacker, creating new meanings for the term "Black Hole." In an offensively-challenged lineup, he obviously needed some sorting- out time (and I suggested the desert an estimable locale).
Then, God bless, if nothing else in his manager's bag-o-tricks, Grady's stubborn persistence (and the unimpressive play of everyone else they tried there) with Wilson and his astoundin' performance in the toughest role in the game, as a semi-late-inning pinch-hitter. There followed, roughly, sporadic continued failure as a spot regular, and some more impactful hits as a one-timer. I praised him to the heavens; I congrat-ed his supporters. I asked if there was any way we could get him to a shrink to discover the difference in his approach as the wildy successful one and the pretty dismal other.
Grady stayed with him, and yes, now, finally, there is some evidence to support his worth in the everyday lineup, and calls for patience with his failures. But before this recent run, the weight of evidence was on the side of the Impatient Angels, and before his pinch-hitting magic, almost all of it. On a great offensive team, he might have been wished and granted more time. On this one, calls for him to find his stroke without contributing four pathetic outs night after young-season night in the majors were entirely warranted (Andrew) BY THE THEN AVAILABLE EVIDENCE!!!!!!! We did not make this up, as Saint Vin often does; we did not tell it the way we wanted it to unfold (as you often do) but honored the day-in day-out actual flesh-and-blood-and-electronically-verifiable way IT WAS UNFOLDING!!!!!!!
So, I suspect, as in previous difficult circumstances, you will punish y'self for the aforementioned rules violations more harshly than you would any of the rest of the Woebegone.
PS: My doubts (continuing) about Wilson,
are generated more by respect for the extraordinary work done by the Braves in the last fifteen seasons (not so much whom they trade for, but whom they are willing to let go), and not by any disrespect for fans of the Flock who see him as a big plus. He was the Prize of Prizes in a system fairly rich in everyday players, and, needing him, from time to time over the course of his ascendancy, never could find him regular work, and let him go for what I still think was a suspiciously modest price (unless some Dodger ML scouts were part-timing for John S., re: Danys).
In this org, at this time, among Nomar, Tony, Wilson (and, as I've occasionally seen here, Olmedo), if I'm the manager,
the guy who gets the lion's share of the PT at 3b, for now, is Senor Betemit. Unless and until, as at the beginning of the season, he plays himself back to hero-off-the-bench, based on (Andrew) CONSISTENTLY
And for all those who love power baseball, and do diligent daily dirges about the absence of same, please inform me who has the best record in the senior circuit right now? And please, while at it, inform me of the flaws in the Great Walt's Game, such that his teams contended almost every year, absent that magic power, and occasionally brought a championship to your city. Please. Alms for the poor, enlightenment for those of us darkened by Walt's evil pall.
PPS - to the guy crackin' wise about sitting Russell in various low-expectation situations. I know you were stretching the limits in making your point, but the next great revolution in baseball will be to recognize and take advantage of those insights, and cultivate a culture wherein a bright strategist of a manager can rely on his guys to understand such machinations serve a greater good, and more importantly, give nourishing lessons to kids of all ages, about the One and the Many.
And lastly, I apologize that time constraints don't allow or encourage live exchanges. I try to honor the folks I read;
I pin my tales, mostly, at the end of the donkey, since that seems the best place...
2007-07-15 22:19:17
547.   Linkmeister
545 "Baited" breath? Got a worm on your tongue there, son?
2007-07-15 22:23:39
548.   Bob Timmermann
949 words!
2007-07-15 22:26:16
549.   Bob Timmermann
It's somewhat like reading "Finnegan's Wake."
2007-07-15 22:29:10
550.   Sammy Maudlin
(509) Could it be Carey Ingram ?
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2007-07-15 22:32:06
551.   CanuckDodger
On opening day 2009, this is the Dodgers' batting line-up I want to see:

Xavier Paul, CF (Bats Left)

Chin-Lung Hu, SS (Bats Right)

Russell Martin, C (Bats Right)

Matt Kemp, RF (Bats Right)

James Loney, 1B (Bats Left)

Andy LaRoche, 3B (Bats Right)

Andre Ethier, LF (Bats Left)

Tony Abreu, 2B (Bats Switch)

The only thing that really stands in the way of that line-up coming to pass is Pierre's contract. Sure, a whole bunch of other things COULD happen that would keep any or all of the other seven players from being there, but they are all things that are OPTIONAL on the Dodgers' part, like re-signing Furcal, signing other free agents, trades, etc.

2007-07-15 22:32:41
552.   Sammy Maudlin
I meant Garey Ingram.
2007-07-15 22:59:28
553.   Andrew Shimmin
547- I through in the towel on trying to keep homonyms straight some time ago.
2007-07-15 23:01:10
554.   Jon Weisman
546 -

So I was right with 16.

And I wasn't attacking you, certainly wasn't trying to encourage you to attack me (would have been much happier to have you not do so), wasn't arguing for the sake of arguing, wasn't using hyperbole and wasn't being sarcastic. I don't see that I violated any rules, written or unwritten. I made a declarative, unemotional, sincere statement.

2007-07-15 23:12:03
555.   NPB
Holy crap! We have the best record in the National League! And it's July 15.

Tomko starting on Friday is unspeakable, but maybe we could win three of four leading up to that. And maybe Nomar could take over as third-base COACH? He'd be good at that gig. Poor sad Nomar.

2007-07-15 23:22:56
556.   overkill94
546 Brevity does not seem to be your strong suit

Can someone give me the Cliff's Notes version of that post? Main characters, significant plot points, themes, etc.

2007-07-15 23:50:05
557.   Andrew Shimmin
556- The people who thought Betemit was no good were right; he was no good. Atlanta doesn't give up good prospects. He's come around. For some reason. But only because every other 3B who got a shot was awful too; on a team with a reasonable option at third, he'd have been sent off, as he ought to have been.

I'm not sure what I have to do with any of it. Though, something, it seems.

2007-07-15 23:57:24
558.   Jon Weisman
The only argument all season long, the one that so often gets forgotten, was that Betemit was the best available option at third base. Nothing that happened in April changed that, unless for some reason you would count only April and throw out everything that preceded April in his career. Betemit was never "no good." He had a bad month - and yet even when he wasn't hitting, he was still walking, I believe.

Now, as then, I would not argue Betemit is an All-Star. I only have argued that he's the best option the Dodgers have at third base, at least until LaRoche ascends.

So this whole thing about what Atlanta does and doesn't do is largely irrelevant. The question has never been whether Atlanta gives up good prospects, it's been whether Atlanta would give up a better third baseman than the 2007 version of Tony Abreu. And in a trade for Danys Baez and Willy Aybar, the answer to that question is and has been yes.

2007-07-16 00:00:52
559.   El Lay Dave
546 We did not make this up, as Saint Vin often does; we did not tell it the way we wanted it to unfold (as you often do) but honored the day-in day-out actual flesh-and-blood-and-electronically-verifiable way IT WAS UNFOLDING!

So I may be taking a risk to dance with Mr. bojangles, but 5, 6, 7, 8....

I think those three things are called fiction-writing, analysis, and reporting. Analyzing and commenting on game action are practically a time-honored tradition in baseball, and other endeavors as well. Consider chess for example. (Bridge players can mentally supply their own similar comparison here.) What would chess be without kibbitzers? Are not chess matches analyzed and annotated with fine-toothed combs, complete with commentary, question marks, and exclamation points inserting the opinion of the analyst?

Is there something inherently wrong in analyzing baseball games, providing arguments and opinions on manager's moves, batter's approaches, pitcher's pitch selections, considering alternate decisions?

It is one thing to report that Wilson Betemit's batting statistics are significantly different when considering pinch-hitting appearance separate from the others. It is another thing to consider if there is or is not any causal relationship from situation to result and to opine whether or not this statistic should affect starting lineup decisions. Is there not room for both? Is a blog, with the system of initial post and comment in reply, not a medium that begs for both?

2007-07-16 00:03:07
560.   FirstMohican
Machinations. Nice. So basically most agree that Betemit might be the best option at third.
2007-07-16 00:23:41
561.   El Lay Dave
I wanted to post this during the game, but I was called away, not to return until now.

Giants' position players on the current 25-man roster, through Saturday:

Player OPS+
Barry Bonds - 184
Ryan Klesko - 121
Fred Lewis - 115
Randy Winn - 98
Ray Durham - 89
Bengie Molina - 84
Kevin Frandsen - 84
Mark Sweeney - 77
Pedro Feliz - 74
Rich Aurilia - 72
Dave Roberts - 70
Omar Vizquel - 57
Guillermo Rodriguez - 40

Man. Not groovy.

2007-07-16 00:25:36
562.   Andrew Shimmin
Oh c'mon ESPN. It was 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, not 10,000. Isn't there anybody there who's ever read a book?
2007-07-16 00:38:25
563.   CanuckDodger
562 -- Maybe nobody there read THAT particular book, no?
2007-07-16 01:14:52
564.   Andrew Shimmin
563- I think I must have misheard it. I don't think it's possible that nobody caught a mistake like that. It's not like they didn't see the Philly losing its 10,000th game coming; the piece must have been in the works for a while.

Wilson Betemit's year has been too weird for me to form an opinion of it. He's beating his 90th percentile PECOTA projection for EQA, right now. I was happy when LaRoche came up, irritated when he got sent back down, but the rest of the time, I've thought Betemit should be playing. One of the problems of giving up on people after April is that you end up with a player who doesn't have a full year's worth of stats, ever. Just pieces, split two ways with heavy benching. It's doubly frustrating, given what non-Betemit 3Bs have been good for. Not only do we go another year wondering what this guy is really good for, but we get to do so without having gained anything by it.

2007-07-16 02:09:37
565.   bhsportsguy
More Mueller stuff, player stats since the change:

Ethier .407/.507/.593
Gonzo .302/.394/.442
Pierre .297/.325/.356
Martin .375/.450/.594
Kent .326/.408/.465
Furcal .256/.318/.347
Nomar .263/.306/.313

Furcal is batting .321 with an .832 OPS in July while Gonzo has cooled down from his hot June.

Nomar is so bad on the road (5 for 37 in this study) that you do have wonder if he will be moved even further down in the order. One note about of Betemit's struggles is that while its true that historically he is much better hitter lefthanded than right, this year, outside the 9 to 1 homer ratio batting left to right, batting average wise he is about the same from either side of the plate.

My point is that you could start Wilson against lefties as much as Nomar because this year, Nomar does not lefties well.

2007-07-16 07:05:00
566.   JoeyP
I apologize for attempting to justify the Brett Tomko start. I was assuming this was just to pass time until Houlton could come back to the big club.

Tomko might be in the rotation for the rest of the season if Wolf's arm doesnt fully recover.

Unless the Dodgers acquire D-Train--which I could honestly see happening.

2007-07-16 07:57:51
567.   Hythloday
Willis isn't a good pitcher. Who are we going to trade for him? Why would the Dodgers make that trade? I'd put that idea in the same wastebin as Texeira for Kemp, Billingsley, and Kershaw.
2007-07-16 07:59:31
568.   D4P
Why would the Dodgers make that trade?

Why did the Dodgers trade for Danys Baez?
Why did the Dodgers trade for Lance Carter?
Why did the Dodgers trade for Mark Hendrickson?

2007-07-16 08:16:07
569.   Hythloday
That answers the second question, but reinforces the first. Who did we really give up for those players that we would like back? If we traded some spare, crappy parts like Hendrickson then fine, but realistically who would we trade? I could see an offer of Tomko, Mattingly, and Young for Willis, but not much more than that. I wouldn't want to part with Young, but there isn't any room for him on the ML roster.
2007-07-16 08:20:29
570.   D4P
I can see Willis being the kind of pitcher Ned would overvalue. I mean, the guy is a 20-Game Winner™! And he's got a popular nickname! And he's good friends with our centerfielder!
2007-07-16 08:36:00
571.   CanuckDodger
566, 570 -- No, Willis is one of the LEAST likely guys Colletti would get. Ned is a "What has he done lately?" kind of guy. Hendrickson was keeping runs off the board quite well when we picked him up, with an ERA in the mid-3.00 range, in the offense-heavy AL East. By contrast, Willis has been pretty ineffective this year. I'm not saying that Colletti wouldn't take Willis for a cheap price; there is just a huge discrepency between what Colletti would be willing to give up and what Florida would demand.
2007-07-16 08:45:37
572.   ToyCannon
While Dodger fans focus on the troubles of Nomar another former elite 3rd baseman is also suffering a power outage. The 32 year old Rolen has a line of 266/340/378 while the soon to be 34 year old Nomar has a line of 270/318/327. The fall off similarity doesn't end there. Last year Pre-All Star break both of these players were two of the best hitters in baseball.

Pre All-Star 2006
Rolen - 331/398/577

Post All-Star 2006
Rolen - 253/333/447

Nomar has fallen further then Rolen but other then PreAllStar 2006 he hasn't been in Rolen's class for several years. The dropoff of both players over the last 162 games is an interesting sideline to the 2007 season. As Andru Jones has heated up after a first half of futility, Dodger and Cardinal fans have to hope that the cliff isn't on the horizon for their respective 3rd baseman but a revival instead. Chances of a post season may depend on it.

2007-07-16 08:46:47
573.   blue22
Dontrelle is a decent buy-low candidate. LA doesn't have the CFer that Florida wants, but a package centered around Delwyn Young and Jonathan Meloan would make sense to me.
2007-07-16 08:49:33
574.   JoeyP
571---Willis is a veteran inning eater--that also happens to be a fan favorite type of player.

That is right up Ned's alley.

Willis would be the Nomar of the pitching staff, and considering there's not much on the pitching market this month---I think he might be the guy the Dodgers will target.

I dont think they should, but I think they will.

2007-07-16 08:58:04
575.   D4P
Ned is a "What has he done lately?" kind of guy

I don't disagree, though Tomko and Wolf hadn't done much for anyone lately when they were signed.

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