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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Barely Barry
2007-07-16 08:00
by Jon Weisman

In my latest piece on's Fungoes ... did you hear Barry Bonds had kind of a rough weekend?

Well, heck, his 2007 on-base percentage has just now dropped below .500.

It's important to keep things in perspective -- Barry Bonds hasn't tumbled irredeemably off a cliff, not as far as on-field performance goes, anyway.

That didn't make it any less mind-blowing to see the San Francisco Giant lightning rod short out this past weekend against the rival Los Angeles Dodgers, going 0 for 12 (with three walks) and grounding into three double plays. No fewer than 16 runners were on base during Bonds' at-bats in the series, and he failed to drive in any of them. ...

* * *

Congratulations to Rich Lederer of Baseball Analysts for having the honor of introducing Bill James at induction ceremonies into the Shrine of the Eternals at the Baseball Reliquary on July 22 at the Pasadena Central Library at 2 p.m. You can read a fine interview with James by Paul Oberjuerge of the San Bernadino Sun.

Comments (274)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-07-16 08:58:41
1.   Bumsrap
Would anybody want to be able to say 20+ years from now that they saw Bonds break Hank's homerun record?
2007-07-16 08:59:28
2.   joekings
Every time Barry came up I kept thinking, this is it, this is where he makes us pay, but he never did.
2007-07-16 09:01:44
3.   ToyCannon
D4P should love the latest at
since it concerns his favorite agent.
2007-07-16 09:02:20
4.   underdog
(Hey, Jon, just FYI, I think you may need to put a close-italics code at the end of your entry here. It makes everything after it on the blog italicized.)

I'm still kind of in shock that Bonds didn't do bubkas this weekend, not even against Tomko. Some credit to the Dodgers' pitchers, they made some really excellent pitches to him. He never does well against Beimel (except once), and for the most part the other guys did well, too. Looked like he did miss a few good pitches to hit, though, and couldn't do anything against Tomko. Wow, no wonder he threw a laundry basket in the locker room yesterday.

2007-07-16 09:02:29
5.   D4P
Dodger Thoughts: In Italics!
2007-07-16 09:02:39
6.   ToyCannon
While Dodger fans focus on the troubles of Nomar another former elite 3rd baseman is also suffering a power outage. The 32 year old Rolen has a line of 266/340/378 while the soon to be 34 year old Nomar has a line of 270/318/327. The fall off similarity doesn't end there. Last year Pre-All Star break both of these players were two of the best hitters in baseball.

Pre All-Star 2006
Rolen - 331/398/577

Post All-Star 2006
Rolen - 253/333/447

Nomar has fallen further then Rolen but other then PreAllStar 2006 he hasn't been in Rolen's class for several years. The dropoff of both players over the last 162 games is an interesting sideline to the 2007 season. As Andru Jones has heated up after a first half of futility, Dodger and Cardinal fans have to hope that the cliff isn't on the horizon for their respective 3rd baseman but a revival instead. Chances of a post season may depend on it.

Just wanted to see how it looks in italics.

2007-07-16 09:09:56
7.   blue22
In italics, these comments read like an inner monologue, like some sports version of the Wonder Years.
2007-07-16 09:10:41
8.   Suffering Bruin
I feel pretty, oh so pretty, I feel pretty in print that looks... well, pretty.
2007-07-16 09:10:49
9.   D4P
Thanks. I agree that you don't sign Boras if you just want to play for the love of the game. Signing Boras is an indication that you'll hold out for a "long" time if necessary to get more than "slot" money.

I'm not convinced, though, that Boras is the "best" agent in the game. As I've said before, he doesn't seem to do anything that other agents can't do. It's not that they can't do what he does: it's that they choose not to.

2007-07-16 09:12:33
10.   ToyCannon
Jon thanks for the link to the Bill James interview.

While I agree with almost everything you do, I was disappointed several weeks ago when you asked a poster to stop linking to many of the local papers stories and he did. I miss those links since I don't make a practice of reading those papers, I thought it really it was up to us as individuals to click on the links if we were interested in the topic.

2007-07-16 09:14:14
11.   Ken Arneson
I fixed the italics thing for Jon.
2007-07-16 09:15:35
12.   ToyCannon
On that we agree. As a Moustakas fan I was bummed when he signed Boras as his agent. If someone tells me it is not about the money but they have Boras as their agent I stop listening. The Harrington and Sanchez information was eye opening.
2007-07-16 09:16:27
13.   bhsportsguy
10 I recall Jon changing his mind about that in that same thread.

I do think time to time, that poster does post links to stories of interest, though not at the same frequency.

2007-07-16 09:16:27
14.   ToyCannon
Pretty no more
2007-07-16 09:16:33
15.   D4P
Thanks for being so bold.
2007-07-16 09:21:12
16.   Jon Weisman
10 - I retracted that request about a half-hour later, per popular demand.

Sorry about the italics thing - I'm not at my desk.

2007-07-16 09:23:27
17.   D4P
I'm not at my desk

Are you posting from an iPhone...?

2007-07-16 09:30:11
18.   Penarol1916
9. But can't that be part of the definition of being the best is, especially when your job is pretty much just human interaction and negotiation. Being willing to do what others are unwilling to do can make someone the best. Certain lawyers are considered the best, not because they do what other lawyers can't, but because they do what other lawyers won't.
2007-07-16 09:35:28
19.   D4P
But can't that be part of the definition of being the best is

Yes, it can. Different people will define "best" in different ways. The fact that Boras is so well known yet not hired by every player seems to suggest that some players define "best" in other ways than "gets me the most money".

2007-07-16 09:39:06
20.   bhsportsguy
12 Quick research, since 2000, only 6 first round picks have not been signed. Remember that Boras held out Drew and Weaver to almost the last day before signing, now he only has another month.

I did read that Blake Beavan recently signed a LOI with a junior college as his representation (advisors since he wants to maintain his college eligibility) wants more than the slot bonus of 1.5 million.

Beavan, who many thought the Dodgers would have taken if available remains one of many 1st round picks that have not signed.

While the Dodgers still have Kyle Blair and Devin Fuller unsigned, according, the Giants have not signed any of their first round picks.

2007-07-16 09:41:51
21.   ToyCannon
Well said.
2007-07-16 09:46:25
22.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
After I deleted yesterday's game from my Tivo, I regretted it. How instructional was that? We saw both a safety squeeze and a suicide squeeze executed successfully, not to mention an interference call and the fact that both plays happened after triples, exciting plays that they are.
2007-07-16 09:50:55
23.   Bumsrap
19 - But what if Boras limits the number of clients he will pimp for?
2007-07-16 09:53:06
24.   Ricardo
20. "Beavan has already ticked off some of his potential future teammates by demeaning their pitching skills on draft day ("I could do as bad as them," he said). His refusal to sign for slot money and get his career started is beginning to frustrate the Rangers a bit."
"While he was pitching for Irving HS, Beaven went through a period where he would form the letter K with his hands after each strikeout."


2007-07-16 09:55:21
25.   Bumsrap
Isn't the 51's D. Young a converted infielder and if so when will he get his shot at third base?
2007-07-16 09:55:25
26.   D4P
But what if Boras limits the number of clients he will pimp for?

I was just going to ask about that, and a few other things.

1. Has Boras (or any other agent) ever rejected a client? If so, why? Was it because there was no room in the stable, or because the client didn't meet their standards (whatever those are)?

2. Are there any hypothetical scenarios under which an agent's interests diverge from that of their client?

2007-07-16 09:55:29
27.   blue22
24 - He actually took his glove off with the sole intent of making a stupid hand gesture to show up the batter? Nice kid. I'm sure his dad was a helluva Little League coach.
2007-07-16 10:03:43
28.   Bob Timmermann
I'm certain that Boras has turned down a client or referred him to someone else. He doesn't have an infinite-sized staff.

And if he thinks a player is going to be a dud, why should he bother?

2007-07-16 10:12:16
29.   Bob Timmermann
Another way to look at it is, let's say Scott Boras is a literary agent and he gets a manuscript from a guy who has written a 500-page work entirely in crayon that has questionable grammar and absolutely no plot.

Is he duty-bound to represent the guy? No, he sends the guy packing.

2007-07-16 10:14:25
30.   Suffering Bruin
Bill James = very confusing man.

From the Bill James interview: "I'm not cheering for Bonds, but then, I didn't much like (Henry) Aaron, either."

In his "Baseball Books" he made an attempt at writing an encyclopedia. In the Aaron entry, James writes that when he warms his coffee in the microwave, he enters '44' seconds in tribute to Hank Aaron.

Now, I'm off to the library to find out if he even wrote the entry. Either way, if I may borrow a phrase from my students, he's got me "bugging and tripping."

2007-07-16 10:16:04
31.   D4P
And if he thinks a player is going to be a dud, why should he bother?

Because it only takes a glossy book to convince a gullible GM that a dud is actually a stud...?

2007-07-16 10:17:38
32.   ToyCannon
He had Rey Sanchez as a client so it doesn't look like he's choosy. He was the Neifi Perez of his day.
2007-07-16 10:19:09
33.   Suffering Bruin
And heartiest of congratulations to Rich Lederer for the honor of introducing Bill James. Rich was part of one of my most memorable nights ever at a Dodger game (I've never had better company, to be frank) and given the choice between Rich and the seemingly cranky James, I'll take Rich to the game any day of the week.
2007-07-16 10:19:12
34.   underdog
25 See previous thread's discussion on Young. He's supposedly a pretty error-prone infielder, much better as an outfielder as he at least has a good arm. So I don't think they project him back to the infield except as an emergency utility player maybe.

Man, did you see the roster for the Long Island Ducks? (Check out link from Bronx Banter entry on that team.)

2007-07-16 10:21:21
35.   gibsonhobbs88
All I can say is "Thank goodness Barry was awful this weekend, I'm tired of seeing the Dodgers on the wrong side of historical moments - especially against the hated G-Men! It's already enough that he broke the single season HR record against us and Hank Aaron surpassed Ruth against us and the cheating NY Giants and that now tainted "Shot heard Round the World" in 1951 and the only perfect game in WS history pitched against us. Let somebody else be the doormat to history. On the bright side-We swept the Giants in SF, Oh what a beautiful morning-Oh what a beautiful day.:)
2007-07-16 10:23:51
36.   bhsportsguy
33 I have said this before but I became a Bill James fan when he wrote that Pedro Guerrero was the first or second best offensive player in the National League.

I recall during Pedro's days of playing all over the diamond, he wrote something like they asked him to play third base and Pedro said you mean over there and he just continue to hit the ball.

(Of course writing things that conform to my way of thinking always gives you a shot to become one of my favorites.)

2007-07-16 10:27:25
37.   regfairfield
35 Problem is that I think the "target date" for Barry to break the record is at Dodger Stadium
2007-07-16 10:28:33
38.   Penarol1916
26. Of course there are cases where an agent's interests diverge from a client's. Take the hometown discount scenario. It is of no interest to the agent where the player plays, unless the agent just doesn't want to do much work and negotiate with a lot of different teams, his interest is not in allowing the player to take a hometown discount, but in getting the player the highest value contract inorder to get the largest percentage for himself.
2007-07-16 10:31:38
39.   Suffering Bruin
33 James is my favorite baseball writer though he does get my hackles up with stuff like what I wrote about upthread.

Ah, Pedro. I remember James writing, "See, the Dodgers think, well, he's got fast hands and good feet so why don't we just put him at third? But the game is harder than that."

I loved it because the Dodgers were notorious for spraying guys all over the diamond. Konerko? To the outfield with you and if you can't play there, bye-bye. Heck, I saw Franklin Stubbs play more than one game in CF. I saw Pedro out there. Good times...

2007-07-16 10:34:45
40.   D4P
I wasn't clear about what I meant, which was whether the financial interests of the agent ever diverge from those of the client.
2007-07-16 10:35:10
41.   Bob Timmermann
Franklin Stubbs' page on BR is sponsored by a guy who calls Stubbs "The underrated key to the Dodgers '88 run."

I really hope that's sarcastic.

2007-07-16 10:35:31
42.   jasonungar07
Gosh who would have thought that on July 16 Juan Pierre would be out OPS'ing Nomar.
2007-07-16 10:39:57
43.   D4P
I'll tell you what's an underrated key: the "Alt" key. I use it a lot as an alternative to the mouse/mousepad when most of my activities are keyboard-based at the time.
2007-07-16 10:41:05
44.   El Lay Dave
39 Remember Pedro Guerrero at SECOND base? We saw that.

In 2029, we may be laughing about the time we saw James Loney in RF. Or reminiscing about how the Dodgers dodged a bullet there.

2007-07-16 10:42:46
45.   D4P
In 2029, we may be laughing about the time we saw James Loney in RF

Or about the 810 times we saw Juan Pierre in CF.

2007-07-16 10:45:19
46.   Dodgers49
10. While I agree with almost everything you do, I was disappointed several weeks ago when you asked a poster to stop linking to many of the local papers stories and he did. I miss those links since I don't make a practice of reading those papers, I thought it really it was up to us as individuals to click on the links if we were interested in the topic.

That was me, Cannon. Jon asked that I post those links in moderation. After several folks indicated they found the links convenient Jon changed his position and gave me permission to continue as before. What happened was that I began to post in moderation even though he gave me permission to post at my previous frequency. So don't blame Jon. :-) I guess I was psyched out. :-) I'll try to do a better job of keeping you undated in the future. :-)

2007-07-16 10:46:19
47.   Bob Timmermann
Switching between the outfield and first base is hardly unusual.

Hall of Famers who played significant time at first and in the outfield:
Stan Musial
Frank Robinson
Hank Aaron (started at 1B in the 1973 All-Star game)
Carl Yastrzemski
Hank Greenberg

2007-07-16 10:48:18
48.   imperabo
45 More likely 1134. You know somewhere in season 4 he'll go on a hot streak and be rewarded with a 2 year extension.
2007-07-16 10:49:35
49.   D4P
But by then, he'll be moved over to LF.
2007-07-16 10:52:58
50.   SG6
44: Bill James has his defensive spectrum, with his notes below:

[ - - 1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS - C - - ]
with the basic premise being that positions at the right end of
the spectrum are more difficult than the positions at the left
end of the spectrum. Players can generally move from right
to left along the specturm successfully during their careers.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-07-16 10:53:35
51.   Icaros

You forgot Shawn Green.

2007-07-16 10:57:41
52.   gibsonhobbs88
37 - Unless he continues his July drought? Then his target date might be the middle of August. So far this year-he has a good month followed by a horrendous month. Great in April and June- terrible in May and July. I'm hoping it continues and he doesn't hit his next HR until he sees us-but gets just 1 between now and Aug. 2.
Let him do it to the Padres or Rockies.
2007-07-16 10:57:42
53.   bhsportsguy
Steve Henson left the LA Times and is now writing and blogging for Yahoo Sports but he is still writing about the Dodgers.

His latest blog entry:

This time, it seems for keeps. This time, rookies James Loney and Matt Kemp are getting more than a cursory look and are viewed as more than fill-ins until a high-priced veteran gets hot or comes off the disabled list.

And the Los Angeles Dodgers are better for it.

This time Loney and Kemp might get the same latitude catcher Russell Martin did a year ago, long before he became the No. 3 hitter, an All-Star and clubhouse leader, the same latitude given to outfielder Andre Ethier, who batted .306 as a rookie, the same latitude given to reliever Jonathan Broxton, who might be the best setup man in the National League in his second year.

"They are coming along nicely," Dodgers manager Grady Little said of Loney and Kemp. "They are playing with a purpose and they will continue to have their opportunities."

The blog was edited from last night when he posted that Kershaw had been promoted to Jacksonville(!), I spent some time trying to find that piece of news but that is now removed. He also opined that Pierre would be moved to 4th outfielder status but he has softened that a bit too.

2007-07-16 10:57:50
54.   D4P
I think Bob limited his list only to current (not future) HOFers.
2007-07-16 10:57:51
55.   El Lay Dave
51 HOFer!? Or is the post missing a wink?
2007-07-16 10:58:02
56.   Humma Kavula
Juan Pierre, last 10 games: .333/.347/.438. 5 SB, 1 CS. 11 runs, 4 RBI.

That's his hot streak, so hot he's burnin' up: 785 OPS.

2007-07-16 11:03:15
57.   ToyCannon
I loved Pedro in CF. The thing about Pedro is that he could knock the snot of out the ball but I loved his smile. He reminds me of Vlady in that he didn't smile alot but when he did he always looked like a kid who just loved to play baseball.

Rudy Law, Roger Cedeno, Wilkie Ruan, Jose Gonzalez, Mike Devereaux, Reggie Williams, Cecil Espy, Bobby Mitchell, Von Joshua, Glenn Burke, Joe Simpson, and Henry Cruz show they let anyone who could claim to be speedy play CF no matter how bad they are. No wonder I remember Pedro's days in CF fondly.

2007-07-16 11:03:25
58.   Dodgers49
Tsao returns to DL with shoulder injury

>>> "The pain in (Tsao's) shoulder is similar to what he had before," Dodgers trainer Stan Conte said. "I think it's a concern anytime you have to go on the disabled list with a problem in your shoulder. Until he gets his strength back, we're not going to let him throw." <<<

2007-07-16 11:04:35
59.   Xeifrank
If you haven't done so already, take a look at the graph over at SOSG tracking the career homerun tallies by age of Bonds, AROD, GriffyJr, Pujols, Aaron and Ruth. AROD is quite a bit ahead of the curve. Pujols was too, until his slump this year. Bonds' slope really goes up as he enters his prime in his late 30s.
vr, Xei
2007-07-16 11:07:11
60.   Icaros

The wink is implied.

2007-07-16 11:08:20
61.   ToyCannon
Can you imagine how ticked off the GM for the High A would be if Kershaw skipped his level.
2007-07-16 11:08:59
62.   blue22
56 - Look at that slugging percentage! He should hit more of those pop-fly, bunt-double thingys.
2007-07-16 11:09:06
63.   Icaros
I wouldn't mind if Bonds breaks the record in LA. He'll get the ovation he deserves.
2007-07-16 11:10:27
64.   Jacob L
I missed all the weekend posting, as per usual. What a fun series, with some really wacky games. My major take-away point was from yesterday - "Behold the Bison!"
2007-07-16 11:10:32
65.   bhsportsguy
61 And all the folks here who are just waiting to make the drive to San Bernardino!
2007-07-16 11:11:13
66.   ToyCannon
For those who can't wait for the Love fest to begin at Pauley.

2007-07-16 11:12:06
67.   Jacob L
I would think the Bonds homer projections are pretty useless at this point. He's close enough that he could do it one surge. He's slumpy enough that it could take a while. I'm less concerned about whether it comes in LA (concurring with Icaros), and more curious as to whether it'll happen before the trading deadline . . .
2007-07-16 11:15:10
68.   blue22
63 - I saw Bonds hit #749 at AT&T a few weeks ago against the Yanks. I did stand and applaud the feat, but it was after a gratifying game where the Giants looked bad, Matt Cain looked bad, and the Yankee fans really gave it to the SF fans.

But Bonds is becoming a bit of a sympathetic figure to me through this whole thing. I don't think what he's about to pull off is being given the proper respect in a historical sense.

I think I'd be inclined to cheer the feat (assuming it isn't some pivotal situation in the game). I'm pretty confident I wouldn't boo, at least.

2007-07-16 11:16:55
69.   Icaros
I'm pretty confident I wouldn't boo, at least.

Pretty sure you'll be in the minority if it happens at Dodger Stadium.

2007-07-16 11:17:52
70.   Humma Kavula
62 Yep, three doubles and a triple in his last 10 games.

One of those doubles came exactly 10 games ago, and the other two came eight games ago. The triple came seven games ago.

Look for a big series against the Phillies if he's going to keep that slugging percentage up. If he doesn't get a couple of doubles, that SLG will instead match his BA.

This is the kind of hard-hitting statistical analysis you can't get just anywhere.

2007-07-16 11:18:11
71.   Icaros
Every time Bonds is about to become a sympathetic figure to me, he opens his mouth and says something. Then we're back to square one.
2007-07-16 11:18:46
72.   ToyCannon
I'm sorry and your all probably sick of this but I can't get over how hot D Young has been. For the season he now has 57 EBH and his ops > 1000. His numbers in July are just sick after a monster June. The good news is that his BABIP has actually fallen in July while he puts up better numbers.


A 1316 OPS after 1/2 a month. Can you be any hotter then that?

2007-07-16 11:21:22
73.   Icaros

I saw him make a nice catch in the AAA All-Star game. He can come to LA if someone throws JP into a pool of quicksand.

2007-07-16 11:21:23
74.   El Lay Dave
59 ARod is five away from 500. He turns 32 in a couple weeks. Even averaging "only" 25 HRs for six more years gets him to at least 650. 30 for seven gets him to Ruthian territory.

$32 million / year anyone?

2007-07-16 11:22:39
75.   ToyCannon
I would never boo Barry Bonds. He gets my respect by playing LF instead of doing it the easy way in the AL. I think the record is not getting as much play because everyone knows that Arod will smash it in a few years. When Aaron broke Ruths records no one looked capable of breaking his mark that was currently playing the game.
2007-07-16 11:23:38
76.   Jacob L
You call that "playing left field?!?"

Sorry couldn't let that just hang there. I get your point.

2007-07-16 11:27:19
77.   blue22
76 - If those THT numbers Jon posted a few weeks back are to be trusted, he's playing a better leftfield than you might expect. Certainly better than Gonzo.

And he looked surprisingly nimble on that HR (Betemit's?) he went up for this weekend.

2007-07-16 11:29:31
78.   Humma Kavula
75 "Not getting as much play?" Are you talking about the home run record? It's in the paper and on ESPN every day. When Bonds does pass it, it will be reported on the nightly news. How much more play could it get?
2007-07-16 11:30:38
79.   jtrichey
Off topic by this point, but Scott Boras definitely picks and chooses who he wants to represent nowadays. I saw reference to it in the recent print edition of Baseball America. He actually scouts prospects just like teams do and contacts people he wants to represent. This was in regards to international free agents.
2007-07-16 11:30:47
80.   ToyCannon
I think Arod hits at least 800 home runs and I don't think 900 is out of the question depending on where he signs his next contract. Do you think Arod would rather have a 5/30/150 deal or 8/25/200 deal? Arod is going to want to win and hit home runs. If Cuban buys the Cubs then I think he's headed for Chicago. Teams who I think might have a shot in order:
2007-07-16 11:33:21
81.   Jacob L
77 I know, I know, but if statistics say that Bonds is playing good defense, my first instinct is to doubt the statistic. FWIW.

On another note, no one took my bait a few posts back about the trading deadline, but one would have to expect the Giants to unload, if not Bonds, a bunch of guys on that team. Being in last place is fine, if you're breaking in a new group, but being in last place with veterans at every position on the diamond is a trainwreck. That's a promising starting rotation, but otherwise, one must avert one's eyes. Of course as soon as I say that, they'll win like 18 of their next 20.

2007-07-16 11:33:23
82.   ToyCannon
The media is talking about it but it seems a non event to everyone I know.
2007-07-16 11:37:57
83.   ToyCannon
Bonds is a smart LF and still a smart baserunner. Steroids or not he was the most complete player I've ever seen play the game in my lifetime but I only caught the tail ends of Aaron/Mays/Clemente.
2007-07-16 11:38:09
84.   Humma Kavula
82 If your friends aren't talking about it, I wonder how much of that is because it's an inevitability. I mean, we've known for three or four years that barring a major injury, he would be here today.

I must say that among my friends, people are talking about it. Talking about what it means for the record, about what Bonds is like as a ballplayer, about steroids, about the steroid era and Bonds' place in it.

2007-07-16 11:38:49
85.   blue22
80 - White Sox? Giants? I think they're both in the conversation (as longshots), but I think that's probably it.
2007-07-16 11:41:33
86.   blue22
81 - I think you take Morris, Lowry, Vizquel, and Roberts, and trade them for as many young position players as possible.

If the Yankees don't want Bonds, I don't know if there is any other fits for his services this year (assuming he's passed the record).

2007-07-16 11:43:27
87.   Dodgers49
As Bob predicted, it may be quite a while before we see Kuo again.

>>> Kuo throws again: Hong-Chih Kuo tried to play catch again, but said his elbow was stiff and sore. Kuo has had elbow problems since 2000 and he's out indefinitely. <<<

2007-07-16 11:43:57
88.   Humma Kavula
84 One more point: before his offensive explosion in the 2000 season (was it 2000? I forget), Bonds was one of the most-ignored, or at least underappreciated, superstars in the game. He was kind of an afterthought in the "best player in baseball" discussions. It seems insane today. It seemed insane at the time.

I wonder if that's another part of the reason your circle isn't talking about him... for a long time in his career, very few talked him.

2007-07-16 11:44:32
89.   Bob Timmermann
Not that I'm happy about that.
2007-07-16 11:46:23
90.   ToyCannon
I think you could trade Klesko, Durham, Vizquel, Feliz, Molina, Morris, and Roberts and not come up with any prospects who would ever make an impact for the Giants.
2007-07-16 11:50:27
91.   ToyCannon
No, my baseball group is very roto centric so even back then we knew he was the best. I really don't remember Bonds ever being underrated. I do remember his failings in the postseaon being a big part of why many did not accept him as the best player in baseball.
2007-07-16 11:50:44
92.   Greg Brock
Before Bonds got on the juice, he was compared with Ken Griffey Jr., and the two were consistently talked about as the finest two players of their generation. He won multiple MVP awards. He was a consistent All-Star starter. Sports Illustrated devoted a cover story to Bonds and Griffey.

Bonds wasn't under appreciated at any point past 1991.

2007-07-16 11:51:25
93.   D4P
One more point: before his offensive explosion in the 2000 season (was it 2000? I forget), Bonds was one of the most-ignored, or at least underappreciated, superstars in the game. He was kind of an afterthought in the "best player in baseball" discussions

As I understand it, that's partly what motivated him to change his diet. He got tired of hearing about the exploits of the McGwires and Sosas.

2007-07-16 11:55:40
94.   blue22
92 - But was not Bonds clearly better than Griffey? Griffey played centerfield, but Bonds was the gold-standard in left. I think the fact that Bonds was compared to, and even ranked beneath Griffey according to some, speaks to his "underrated-ness".
2007-07-16 11:57:52
95.   bryanf
93 That was my understanding based on "Game of Shadows", which is a very enlightening book, BTW, if you haven't read it.
2007-07-16 12:02:04
96.   Greg Brock
94 There were a few years in the 90's when Griffey out OPSed Barry, but Bonds was a consistently better player. Even though Griffey's CF play is incredibly overrated, it's still CF, which is exceedingly more difficult than left field.

That said, Bonds was the better player. But hardly underrated.

2007-07-16 12:09:32
97.   Marty
Since there wasn't a Screen Jam spot to post, I have to say here that I thought last night's John from Cincinnatti was extremely good. I'm even more unsure of where it's all headed, but what a ride last night.
2007-07-16 12:10:22
98.   imperabo
"There were a few years in the 90's when Griffey out OPSed Barry"

Might want to check your sources on that one.

2007-07-16 12:13:13
99.   Dodgers49
>>> Las Vegas catcher Ken Huckaby was placed on the disabled list with a shoulder injury, and catcher Gabriel Gutierrez was promoted to Las Vegas from Class-A Inland Empire. ... <<<

2007-07-16 12:14:49
100.   jasonungar07
Totally Marty.

"I don't care how much you say that I'm thinking, frat boy, I'm still not giving up herb"

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-07-16 12:15:31
101.   regfairfield
Even adjusted for position, Bonds was the best hitter in baseball in the 90s, and only the Hurt was comparable.

Unless you think Griffey was worth 10 runs a year defensively over Bonds over the entire decade, he doesn't compare.

2007-07-16 12:16:09
102.   Humma Kavula
92/96 I should have said, perhaps, that over the mid-to-late 90s, after he'd already won his three MVPs, Bonds remained the best player in baseball, but was not necessarily regarded that way. He won several MVP awards, yes, but none after 1993 until he exploded in 2001.

In 1995, he was 12th in the voting. With a 168 OPS+. Twelfth. Dante Bichette was second. I'm not saying Bonds should have won, but: twelfth.

The next year, 1996, Bonds had a 186 OPS+, best in the league. With Caminiti and Piazza both in the 170s, it isn't quite as much a crime, but Bonds still ranked behind Ellis Burks and Chipper Jones.

In '98, when McGwire came in 2nd and should have won, Bonds was judged less valuable to his team than Sammy Sosa, Moises Alou, Greg Vaughn, Craig Biggio, Andres Galarraga, and Trevor Hoffman.

I know that OPS+ is not the be-all end-all, and further, there are a lot of politics that goes into an MVP vote and that, having won three awards, voters were reluctant to give him a fourth until they had to in 2001. Still, he produced like nobody else over that period.

Maybe "underrated" is a bad way to put it. He was so good that his greatness was taken in stride; many casual baseball fans and even MVP voters did not recognize that they were watching the greatest hitter they had ever seen.

2007-07-16 12:16:58
103.   Greg Brock
98 Sorry. I thought he caught him two years. Guess not. "Compare" at bb-ref frightens and confuses me.
2007-07-16 12:20:29
104.   Jon Weisman
87 - But did Bob predict the flowering of Buddy Carlyle?

97 - Every chat thread at Screen Jam is open chat - even the ones that are over a week old :(

2007-07-16 12:21:46
105.   Greg Brock
97 If I knew what any of it meant, I would wholeheartedly agree. It was still pretty good.

I think our man John is gathering apostles.

2007-07-16 12:24:12
106.   Penarol1916
102. I know exactly what you are saying. I remember when I was in college out on the East coast in the late 90's and people would talk about the best player of the the '90's, and I'd let the conversation go for awhile, and nobody would mention Bonds, I was the only person who would argue for him as the best overall player of the decade. He was just not fully appreciated by the average fan. Perhaps on the West Coast, but not overall, he was just considered a very good player, not a great one.
2007-07-16 12:24:26
107.   regfairfield
VORP totals for the 90s for some prominent hitters:

Bonds: 846.2
Thomas: 781.9
Griffey: 733.1
Martinez: 645.1
Bagwell: 625.6
Biggio: 590.5
Piazza: 517.3
Gwynn: 475

2007-07-16 12:25:27
108.   ToyCannon
Just seems strange to talk about JFC in a thread about a dead man. Or maybe not.
2007-07-16 12:30:49
109.   Hythloday
Barry is the only 500 500 player (homeruns and steals) in history and IIRC the only 400 400 player. Had he stayed off the juice it is not inconceivable that he could have been the first to 600 & 600 too. He got a ton of credit for being a great player, but it is still possible that he was egregiously underrated. You can call him one of the top two players of his era and that would be underrating him IMO. I'm still youngish and haven't followed baseball closely my whole life, but he's the best I've ever seen.
2007-07-16 12:35:37
110.   blue22
103 - Check OPS+'s for an even more startling comparison:

Bonds had 2 seasons at 200+ and 2 more at 180+ (just in the 90s alone).

Griffey Jr had a career high of 172.

2007-07-16 12:36:31
111.   jasonungar07
3B OPS. And we dont play him, why? And we play him why?

Álex Rodríguez 1.061
Chipper Jones 1.020
Miguel Cabrera .996
Aramis Ramírez .908
Kevin Youkilis .904
David Wright NYM .879
Mike Lowell .864
Wilson Betiment .842
Adrián Béltre .826
Mark DeRosa .823
Caey Blake .818
Mark Loretta .805
Melvin Mora BAL .787
Eric Chávez OAK .764
Ty Wigginton TB .764
Garrett Atkins .757
Brandon Inge .747
José Bautista .742
Ryan Zimmerman .740
Edwin Encarnación .724
Scott Rolen .719
Aubrey Huff .697
Alex Gordon .675
Pedro Feliz .670
Nomar Garciaparra .642
Nick Punto .587

2007-07-16 12:39:37
112.   Humma Kavula

A. Because earlier this year he was given, what, 100 or 150 plate appearances and told to earn his job, and he struggled.

B. Because he has a funny name and a big contract and because he used to be really, really good.

2007-07-16 12:40:57
113.   blue22
111 - And if LA refuses to play him (Betemit), why hasn't he been traded to Minnesota yet?
2007-07-16 12:43:08
114.   jasonungar07
Player B has 335 plate apperances was given his job, lost it and continues to struggle.
2007-07-16 12:44:54
115.   jasonungar07
How about trading Olmedo. Does he deserve a roster spot anymore? I mean he can't really play the field and he isn't that effective this year.
2007-07-16 12:46:26
116.   Humma Kavula
114 Sure, of course. They play by different ground rules.

I predict that Nomar will continue to play until the boos reach Tomko levels.

2007-07-16 12:47:04
117.   Retire 55
Hard to believe:

BA active career leaders (min 3000 PA)

1. Ichiro Suzuki (33) .332
2. Todd Helton (33) .332
3. Albert Pujols (27) .331
4. Vladimir Guerrero (31) .325
5. Derek Jeter (33) .318
6. Nomar Garciaparra (33) .315

2007-07-16 12:48:50
118.   blue22
115 - He's been getting beat by a lot of righties recently (and looking pretty bad), but until he stops pounding lefties (.997 OPS this year) he should keep his spot.

Maybe if an AL team wanted him as a RH-platoon for a DH someone might be interested. But you'd be giving him away at this point.

2007-07-16 12:51:15
119.   bhsportsguy
116 Boos, the man gets the most love aside from Russell.

He is so far away from getting booed that if that was the criteria, he could play until his kids start kindegarden.

Now I have only been to 13 games this year so perhaps I missed those occasions when the boo birds were out but if you think the fans who show up, for the most part, care about who is OPSing higher between Betemit and Nomar, well they don't. They cheer when "Low Rider" comes on the loudspeaker and when they hear "Nomar Garciaparra" is coming to bat.

2007-07-16 12:52:22
120.   D4P
I predict that Nomar will continue to play until the boos reach Tomko levels

Yet, Tomko has continued to play since the boos reached Tomko levels...

2007-07-16 12:52:37
121.   Humma Kavula
115 In my opinion, the Dodgers need to decide what they need before they decide who on the team is expendable.

For the first two and a half months of the season, the Dodgers needed to improve the offense. They had better options within their own system -- no need for a trade -- and yet were reluctant to make the substitions they had to make. Now that's started to happen and the offense has improved.

For the first two and a half months of the season, the pitching was stellar. Now we are starting to see some injuries. Can one of the in-house options step up? Is there anyone available better than who the Dodgers have in-house? Or am I getting ahead of myself -- should the Dodgers avoid a panic move and wait and see how things shape up, pitching-wise, over the next couple of weeks and only consider a move right at the deadline?

2007-07-16 12:54:42
122.   Humma Kavula
119 I expressed it poorly, but that was kind of my point. People come to the ballpark to see him.

Seating him on the bench would be the proper move, but I just don't see the Dodgers doing it any time soon.

2007-07-16 12:55:29
123.   natepurcell
hi guys, back from san fran. it was a blast. I didn't actually get seats for any of the games but i did that standing thing for 3 innings on saturday. Good times.
2007-07-16 12:57:28
124.   bhsportsguy
117 Helps if you hit .370 in the early part of your career.

No, but that is also part of why Nomar will get a long, long, and even longer look at 3B.

First reason, LaRoche isn't coming up unless Nomar goes down mainly because they can't option Wilson and also Wilson is a valuable lefty bat off the bench.

Second reason, his history, he has always put up numbers when healthy and unless he is withholding something, I am sure they believe that it will click for him at some point. They moved him (finally) out of the third spot to 6th and who knows if Loney, Kemp and Ethier continue to hit well, that could change.

Third reason, his popularity will also allow them to let him play through this. Unlike the Tomko situation and others in the past, Nomar remains popular with the folks at the games, the media and management so he will be given that "veteran" immunity for a while longer.

2007-07-16 12:59:23
125.   bhsportsguy
123 Did you hunt down Kyle Blair and hand him a contract to sign?

Good to hear you had a good time.

2007-07-16 13:02:12
126.   natepurcell

no but at this pub i went to a cougar did try to hunt me down and take me back to her den.

2007-07-16 13:03:14
127.   silverwidow
If Tomko isn't gone by 7/31, what are the chances he'll whine so much about wanting to start that Bills will be sent back to the pen? That is something I'm REALLY dreading right now.
2007-07-16 13:04:43
128.   natepurcell

the only way that happens is if Billingsley gets hurt or becomes as bad as Tomko.

2007-07-16 13:05:27
129.   D4P
How old is a "Cougar" in Nate's world? 25? 28?
2007-07-16 13:07:49
130.   natepurcell

I never got her age (she wouldn't tell me). she said she was an environmental law attorney and looked around 35 to me but who knows, I'm bad at guessing ages and the bar had bad lighting.

2007-07-16 13:08:57
131.   Hythloday
127 - About nil.
2007-07-16 13:09:36
132.   Hythloday
35? Sign me up!
2007-07-16 13:09:37
133.   natepurcell
So does Chin Lung Hu think he is a power hitter now?
2007-07-16 13:09:49
134.   dkminnick
Thanks to Dodgers49 for the re-invigorated posting of Dodger news links from around the tubes.

It cements DT as the center of my baseball world.

2007-07-16 13:10:50
135.   D4P
Do you always turn down such advances, or was there something particular about this woman that inspired your rebuff?
2007-07-16 13:10:53
136.   underdog
Shows you how out of it I am - I pictured a wild animal wandering into a pub from the foothills. Hey, we had coyotes in GG park this weekend, it could happen!

Unless "coyote" is slang for something else, too.

2007-07-16 13:12:00
137.   kngoworld
Sheets to the DL.
Maybe we could get Peavy to join him.
2007-07-16 13:12:02
138.   silverwidow
133-He's our #2 hitting prospect behind LaRoche, in my opinion.
2007-07-16 13:14:03
139.   Vishal
i was once hunted by a cougar at a bar in DC. she was in her early 50s i think, but looked pretty like she was mid-30s. i bailed, however, after she began reminiscing about her stint "working a streetcorner in amsterdam"...
2007-07-16 13:14:12
140.   Bob Timmermann
Environmental law attorney?

You missed out using pickup lines like,
"Hey, you want to come back and CEQA my place?"

"I've got a draft of a plan that may impact us both in a certain environment."

"Let me pay for this drink out of my own Superfund."

2007-07-16 13:14:39
141.   Vishal
*looked pretty much
2007-07-16 13:14:50
142.   ToyCannon
What are the chances that Tomko continues to pitch as well as you'd expect for a 5th starter and moves Hendrickson to the bullpen where he's done just fine?

How bizarre is it that Hu now has more home runs after a weekend of baseball in Vegas then Loney did in 2 1/2 months?

2007-07-16 13:16:17
143.   Hythloday
140 Your Superfund site or mine?
2007-07-16 13:16:23
144.   natepurcell

Women a decade older then me don't entice me. Besides, i wasn't looking for companionship that night; just wanted to have a good time at the pub with my buddies.

heh another funny story, at Foleys, out of everyone in our group (about 8 people), I was the only one they gave a giants mug to. I then proceeded to break the mug over the bartender's head and pull out a LA flag from my backpack and lay claim to the bar as Dodger Land.

no not really buts what i did in my head.

2007-07-16 13:17:05
145.   ToyCannon
Who knew geeks could be so picky:)
2007-07-16 13:17:26
146.   bhsportsguy
135 Great, now we are entering Nate's dating world.

136 Okay, as I delicately dance around this but for underdog, "Cougar" refers to an older woman, usually in her late 30's or 40's who "dates" younger men.

Term used by motion picture movie, Oceans 13.

2007-07-16 13:18:41
147.   Vishal
[136] coyote is slang for those guys who smuggle in illegal immigrants, isn't it?
2007-07-16 13:19:01
148.   natepurcell

he is probably up there. I still really like Josh Bell but Hu's defensive abilities and closeness to the majors probably gives him the edge. Either way, it does look like we still have some impact offensive help in 2008 if we need it.

2007-07-16 13:19:16
149.   still bevens
124 I felt awful for Nomar during the game on Sunday. He got called out on strikes looking and was visibly super p.o.'d and jawed with the ump. Then he got the double called back and proceeded to pop out later in the game. Him and his batting helmet had an altercation in the dugout afterwards. You can tell hes not happy at all with the way hes playing but I find it odd that he has no idea what the problem is.
2007-07-16 13:19:27
150.   rockmrete
KGUO, and TSO may both be done for the year. Tomko is not going anywhere except the Pen when Wolf returns (I HOPE), if he returns. I hope McCourt ties Ned's hands and rejects any increase in payroll so that we can keep the Kids we have up right now. And the depth that Ned needs should come from in house this year, guys like Melaon,D.Young,LaRoache,Hulton,Stults... Ned spent his money this past offseason already.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-07-16 13:19:53
151.   Icaros
Wolverine Girls make for better comedy than Cougars.
2007-07-16 13:20:39
152.   ToyCannon
Badly we might add.
2007-07-16 13:21:20
153.   El Lay Dave
80 I think your numbers are low.

"Rodriguez may void after 2007 season (by Nov. 10, 2007)"

"Rodriguez may void after 2008 or 2009 unless club increases 2009-10 salary by $5M/year or $1M more than highest-paid MLB position player"

Boras is already priming the market by using that second clause to point out that what ARod would be opting out of in 08-10 is $27, $32, $32 million, so that is where Boras wants the bidding to start. With no real knowledge, I guess 8/32/256 with a couple well-placed opt-outs and some nice escaltor clauses. (The Yankees can match that with an offer of a 5/33/165 extention, with the current opt-outs then removed.) This is territory very few dare to tread. NY, Boston, Cubs (if Cuban can gain ownership that quickly). I find it at least a little difficult to imagine Moreno or McCourt pulling that trigger.

The Texas money in the current contract adds an interesting twist. Normally Boras opts out and lets the market drive the price up, fanning and fueling the flames as best he can. But the best offer the Yankees - always an important player in these highest stakes games - can make would seem to be an extension so that Texas' contribution remains in place. This allows NY to overprice the extension a bit. But those scenarios disappear with the opt-out exercised.

2007-07-16 13:22:01
154.   bhsportsguy
151 Unless you are referring to University of Michigan coeds, I am afraid to ask what "Wolverine Girls" stands for.

Besides, Nate is a Pac-10 guy.

2007-07-16 13:23:05
155.   Dave G
As a budding land use attorney, Bob, I might be the only one who found those really hilarious. 'Course, that doesn't mean I'd be caught dead using those lines.
2007-07-16 13:23:26
156.   underdog
147 Yup! That's right. Well, in the park this weekend it was the canine coyotes, not the other kind. (And, no, they weren't walking upright trying to kill rabbits with Acme brand weapons, but one of them did attack a couple of dogs).

146 Thanks, I pretty much figured it out from the discussion ;-) I guess I'm now old enough to date "cougars" and not think of them that way since they'd be about my age.

2007-07-16 13:26:14
157.   Penarol1916
If Mark Cuban becomes the owner of the Cubs, I will burn my flag of Uruguay. No way Selig lets that happen, especially since there are a number of other groups being formed that will be able to put together decent bids. Selig wants owners who will follow the company line, do you really think Selig is stupid enough to believe that Cuban will do that?
2007-07-16 13:27:53
158.   ToyCannon
Elizabeth Shue can go from being the heart of gold prostitute to hotter then hot cougar as moves down the defensive spectrum of hollywood myths.
2007-07-16 13:28:42
159.   trainwreck
I wish I had a cougar.
2007-07-16 13:28:55
160.   ToyCannon
He is plenty stupid enough but your right he won't let that happen. It is just another little tease for Cub fans.
2007-07-16 13:29:10
161.   Vishal
[156] when i was a kid i wrote a serious letter to the president of warner brothers complaining that wile e. coyote should've caught the roadrunner by now, because he's clearly a supergenius and the roadrunner was a hedonistic nitwit whose only two positive attributes were luck and speed. i said that having the roadrunner win against the resourceful and indefatigable coyote was sending the wrong message to the children of america.

i got a letter back from bugs bunny.

2007-07-16 13:30:19
162.   D4P
As a budding land use attorney, Bob, I might be the only one who found those really hilarious

I contemplated land use law before choosing the Ph.D. path instead.

2007-07-16 13:32:01
163.   D4P
the roadrunner was a hedonistic nitwit whose only two positive attributes were luck and speed

Oh my goodness, I believe we have a new nickname for Juan Pierre.

2007-07-16 13:33:10
164.   underdog
161 Hah hah. That reminds me of the brilliant essay Ian Frazier wrote for The New Yorker a few years back, Wile E. Coyote vs. Acme, written as if a real law suit.

2007-07-16 13:34:38
165.   Eric Enders
Yeah, Cuban ain't going to get the Cubs. No chance. A sport that appeals mostly to 50-year-old men doesn't have the same tolerance for controversial owners as the NBA. The most brash and loudmouthed owner in recent baseball history was a Nixon Republican. Selig will never let Cuban get a team, and even if Selig weren't around I doubt the other owners would approve Cuban.

Even if it were to happen, the Cubs have said the sale won't take place until the season is over, and completing the process would take too long for the Cubs to sign any big free agents. (Much as the approval process prevented McCourt from signing Vladimir Guerrero in 2004.)

Basically what it comes down to is, there is no realistic way the Cubs could be a contender for A-Rod. I think it's the Yankees, Red Sox, or Angels, barring somebody coming completely out of left field.

2007-07-16 13:35:26
166.   imperabo
"Oh my goodness, I believe we have a new nickname for Juan Pierre."

I'm in.

2007-07-16 13:36:22
167.   Eric Enders
163 Ralph Garr would be turning over in his grave, if he had one.
2007-07-16 13:36:34
168.   Vishal
the hilarity abounds today :)

i guess sweeping the giants puts us all in a pretty good mood.

2007-07-16 13:36:49
169.   xaphor
140. Hey baby, are you adequately wet for aerobic action?

Regarding the SI piece, I see our resident gilded divinity has taken a hand to providing the perfect conclusions to article columns. His blessings are indeed felt far and wide.

2007-07-16 13:37:18
170.   underdog
Actually, use this link (that other one's different):
2007-07-16 13:37:52
171.   Eric Enders
Only a quick reaction and brake slam prevented me from running over an actual roadrunner yesterday. Impossible to catch, my ass.
2007-07-16 13:38:38
172.   Sammy Maudlin
Happy 76th birthday Norm Sherry! He is often given some credit for helping Sandy Koufax with his control problems in the early 60's .
2007-07-16 13:39:49
173.   Eric Enders
Does 169 refer to Jon, or Russell Martin?
2007-07-16 13:45:10
174.   Jon Weisman
130, 140 et al -

From the NBC press bio of Far Shariat, executive producer of the fall series, "Life":

"Shariat move to Los Angeles in 1996 to pursue a career in agricultural literature. After failing to land a position in this highly competitive field, Far settled for working in the film industry."

2007-07-16 13:45:55
175.   xaphor
173. Martin. Jon is more of an Apostle. :)
2007-07-16 13:46:01
176.   Eric Enders
174 Hey, not everybody can be Steinbeck.
2007-07-16 13:47:29
177.   Penarol1916
161. I always considered myself as the only 6-year old curmudgeon who rooted against the Roadrunner, Bugs Bunny, Woody Woodpecker, and Mickey Mouse. All a bunch of jerks, I always thought, give me Daffy Duck any day.
2007-07-16 13:49:12
178.   D4P
Funny. I rooted for:

Wile E.
Elmer Fudd
Daffy Duck

I rooted against:

Porky Pig

2007-07-16 13:49:45
179.   gibsonhobbs88
150 -Billingsley is our #3 right now behind Penny and Lowe. I hope Wolf is able to return and he can be our #4 and they can use Tomko/Hendrickson as our #5 based on matchups - who they pitch against. Next pitcher who can fill in for a Tomrickson failure I think will be Houlton. What was our strength to start the season is now getting dangerously thin with Schmidt, Kuo gone for the season and Wolf an iffy option right now. The offense will have to continue to produce to be able to compete with the Padres.
2007-07-16 13:50:53
180.   ToyCannon
Here are some cougars.
2007-07-16 13:51:18
181.   berkowit28
163 I like it.
2007-07-16 13:52:25
182.   xaphor
174. Hollywood needs more chase scenes involving combine harvesters.
2007-07-16 13:53:32
183.   Icaros
Wolverine Girl: When a gentleman wakes up the following morning with his arm around a sleeping woman whom he played with the night before, he is inclined to try chewing his own arm off in an escape attempt so as not to wake her up.

I don't endorse this, but I have had friends who do.

2007-07-16 13:57:25
184.   gcrl
i think that's the definition of "coyote ugly"
2007-07-16 13:57:43
185.   FirstMohican
Can't believe Hu doesn't have a single BB since he's arrived in Vegas! He really better figure it out and quick. =)
2007-07-16 13:59:24
186.   Icaros

Same concept, but Coyote Ugly has become far too commercialized.

2007-07-16 14:00:35
187.   xaphor
Bugs would always act out in a playful manor acknowledging his behaviour as unnecessary (ain't I a stinker). Where as Daffy was vindictive and insisted he was the victim when his plans went awry.

A better conundrum was Tom & Jerry where they both took turns tormenting each other for their own perverse amusement. I don't recall taking sides, but I loved every second.

2007-07-16 14:03:55
188.   Penarol1916
178. I never rooted against Porky Pig or the Smurfs. Porky was just benignly stupid, but Bugs Bunny was a real jerk. I also forgot to mention that I also hated Jerry the Mouse, except for when he was in a cartoon with that littler, more annoying mouse that talked in a cutesy voice.
2007-07-16 14:06:03
189.   GobiasIndustries
Whenever Spike the dog would get in on an episode I would root for him. I also rooted for those three mice (can't recall their names, I think Uncle Herman was one) that were always a side cartoon on the old Tom & Jerry show.
2007-07-16 14:08:30
190.   Penarol1916
187. But Daffy's plans usually at least made sense, plus, he always lost, unless it was against Elmer Fudd. Bugs always won, even when he was being a jerk, and he only won because his opponent was an idiot or just plain luck.
2007-07-16 14:11:38
191.   Dodgers49
133. So does Chin Lung Hu think he is a power hitter now?

It doesn't appear that he does.

>>> Hu, whose homer made it a 6-1 game in the fifth, also went 3-for-4 and is hitting .444 (8-for-18) with three homers and eight RBIs in four games with the 51s.

"Maybe the (Triple-A) pitchers don't know me," Hu said. "I'm just trying to hit the ball hard and help the team win." <<<

2007-07-16 14:15:55
192.   trainwreck
I always root for the duck characters.
2007-07-16 14:23:07
193.   ToyCannon
Given my admiration for David Eckstein it is not hard to believe my favorite cartoon up until I was 8 was "Mighty Mouse" at which time TV was cut out until I was 11 and then it was all about the Moose or the George in the Jungle hour. Somewhere in there was "Super Chicken".
2007-07-16 14:23:57
194.   jasonungar07
Besides, i wasn't looking for companionship that night; just wanted to have a good time at the pub with my buddies.


I remember when I used to say that. Then 10 years goes by, quickly, and I remember what Grandpa says in Little Miss Sunshine and wished that I would have listened to Grandpa.

2007-07-16 14:31:54
195.   D4P
I never rooted against Porky Pig or the Smurfs

I rooted for him when he faced Daffy. I particularly remember the encounter where Daffy wields a staff, and spouts off a lot of staff-wielding rhetoric. Porky, dressed in some kind of monk garb, is unimpressed, and just holds out a small stick or something and Daffy spins himself into oblivion. I always wanted Daffy to wipe the smug off of Porky's face, but it never happened.

2007-07-16 14:32:44
196.   Marty
193 Here he comes to save the day!
2007-07-16 14:37:19
197.   D4P
That should say I rooted against Porky when he faced Daffy.
2007-07-16 14:40:23
198.   Marty
195 That would be Robin Hood Daffy with Porky as Friar Tuck
2007-07-16 14:50:59
199.   bryanf
I always rooted for Daffy Duck. He was my absolute favorite by a land slide. "Duck Amuck" is perhaps the greatest cartoon of all time.
2007-07-16 14:52:15
200.   Curtis Lowe
Furcal, SS

Pierre, CF

Martin, C

Kent, 2B

Loney, 1B

Nomar, 3B

Ethier, LF

Kemp, RF

Penny, P

per ITD plus some info on how to get a Billingsley jersey.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-07-16 14:52:22
201.   Eric Enders
Loney moves ahead of the great outmaker, if only for a day.

Furcal, SS
Pierre, CF
Martin, C
Kent, 2B
Loney, 1B
Nomar, 3B
Ethier, LF
Kemp, RF
Penny, P

2007-07-16 14:52:58
202.   Eric Enders
I think my cynical addition was worth the seven-second wait.
2007-07-16 14:54:50
203.   Eric Enders
By the way, the best cartoon of all time was the Disney version of "Robin Hood" where Maid Marian was (literally) a fox and King Richard was a lion.

I will brook no arguments on this matter.

2007-07-16 14:55:39
204.   PHilldodger
165 You mean Frank McCourt is not "cutting-edge"?
2007-07-16 14:55:49
205.   Penarol1916
195. Oh yes, I remember that one now. That smug look on Friar Tuck Porky Pig's face was pretty bad, I did root for Daffy in that one, definately.
2007-07-16 14:55:55
206.   D4P
I'd rather Kemp bat 2nd, and Pierre bat 8th.

Water is wet.

2007-07-16 14:58:45
207.   underdog
Besides the obvious, the rest of my favorite childhood cartoon characters were Bugs and Daffy, both, for their own peculiar brands of anarchy - one calm and collected, the other deranged; also loved Bullwinkle and friends. Always hated Tom and Jerry (and love Itchy and Scratchy for making fun of them).

Ethier and Kemp must be a better 7-8 punch than just about any other other team can muster up.

2007-07-16 14:58:52
208.   Penarol1916
203. If I wasn't leaving work for the day right now, I'd make the argument that it is among the 5-10 worst feature length Disney animation films of all time. The only redeeming part is the use of "On, Wisconsin" during the archery competition.
2007-07-16 14:58:56
209.   Jon Weisman
203 - I think the first record album I can remember choosing myself was the soundtrack to that movie.
2007-07-16 14:59:48
210.   underdog
195 "Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha!" {{thwack!}} Classic.
2007-07-16 15:00:09
211.   ToyCannon
I thought that Gonzo had headed south as we went into July but I didn't realize it was this much south. He's very close to having a lower OPS in July then his slug% was in June.


2007-07-16 15:00:56
212.   jasonungar07
loney is hitting leadoff? j/k you meant the other outmaker. I got my eye on you.
2007-07-16 15:01:37
213.   D4P
"Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha!"

Exactly! The only word I could remember was "Parry".

2007-07-16 15:05:39
214.   Eric Enders
Robin Hood and Little John a-walkin' through the forest
Oodelally, oodelally, golly what a day
2007-07-16 15:06:06
215.   ToyCannon
I think after the DT Saturday night gig we should all meet at the Baseball Reliquary induction. Most of us got our start from Bill James in taking our understanding of this game to another level. We get to ring a bell, how cool is that.
2007-07-16 15:06:20
216.   Eric Enders
212 No, I got my eye on you, pal.
2007-07-16 15:06:38
217.   Jacob L
211 How many at-bats? The Dodgers have only played something like 11 games in July, and Gonzo's already been losing time to Kemp and Ethier. The same 11 games have probably been the Roadrunner's best stretch of the year.
2007-07-16 15:06:45
218.   bhsportsguy
211 It is only 40 at bats, I think he deserves some time before he gets the goint south label.
2007-07-16 15:07:51
219.   D4P
FJM has a link up to a radio interview featuring Ken Tremendous. I'm listening to it right now.
2007-07-16 15:12:54
220.   Uncle Miltie
201- Betemit goes 4-6 with a double and a homerun two days ago. What's his reward? Being benched two days in a row in a favor of a guy who trails him in the OPS department by almost 200 points!

D4P- Oregon just got two top basketball recruits from the 2008 class, including a 5 star big man.

2007-07-16 15:13:35
221.   Jon Weisman
215 - You know it's a day game, right?
2007-07-16 15:15:37
222.   Bob Timmermann
Is Oregon the name of the state that's a little bit north of Redding?
2007-07-16 15:15:55
223.   ToyCannon
Going South in July is all that is intimated. He had 93 at bats in June, 40 in July. He was overdue for a day off even though he's been hitting lefties even better then righties this year. Big road/home splits for him as he's been a much better hitter on the road.
2007-07-16 15:16:47
224.   D4P
Take that, U.C.L.A.!

BTW: Are you going to be a Duck for sure? If so, when do you move to Eugene?

2007-07-16 15:17:01
225.   underdog
Oh man, I just heard they took out those two coyotes in GG park who had attacked the woman's dog. :-( Sigh. RIP, Wile E. and Mrs. Wile E.
2007-07-16 15:21:31
226.   Uncle Miltie
224- I'm flying up to Eugene in a few weeks to register for classes. I believe school starts in late September. I'm going to move up to Oregon around September 18-19.
2007-07-16 15:22:37
227.   Gagne55
201 Is it sad that the pitcher has a higher OPS than the third baseman? (I'm serious; you can look it up.)
2007-07-16 15:23:24
228.   D4P
How exciting! Do you have any idea where you're gonna live?
2007-07-16 15:24:30
229.   Gagne55
225 What? Real life coyotes don't return to full health within eight seconds? ;-)
2007-07-16 15:36:16
230.   underdog
229 Heh. They tried dropping an anvil on their head but it didn't work.
2007-07-16 15:38:40
231.   natepurcell
Should Colletti look into signing Martin to a long term contract buying out his arb years and first free agent year?
2007-07-16 15:46:38
232.   blue22
231 - A good idea while starting him 150 games per year?
2007-07-16 15:48:40
233.   blue22
219 - The serious side of KT. Where's the laughs?
2007-07-16 15:49:11
234.   natepurcell
The emergence of Delwyn Young with his crazy last couple of months could be a Godsend for Colletti. He now has the ability to convince another GM that a package centered around Delwyn Young is a credible return for his player.

I like Young but I don't see a future for him as a starting player on this team. He doesn't have the ability to play the infield effectively, his walk rates and strikeout rates in AAA have been just okay and I'm not convince he would be a better option then Ethier. I haven't really looked at who would be available out on the trade market but Young's hot hitting might have saved Laroche or some other highly touted youngster as the Dodgers trading chip.

2007-07-16 15:49:50
235.   regfairfield
231 Yep, he's only going to get more expensive per year. Catchers who have had comparable workloads to Martin don't immediately burn out.
2007-07-16 15:50:31
236.   D4P
I kinda liked hearing the serious side, knowing that the hilarity lurked just beneath the surface.
2007-07-16 15:51:07
237.   natepurcell

well, Martin is 24 right now, with his first arb year starting in 2009 I think. It could save them in the long run if this year is any indicator of his future age 26-29 years.

2007-07-16 15:51:34
238.   blue22
234 - Young and Meloan - that's the package! Now who does it get in return? Probably need some starting pitching. Someone better than Jose Contreras, preferably.
2007-07-16 15:52:23
239.   blue22
236 - But now I read him in a different voice.
2007-07-16 15:52:24
240.   Bob Timmermann
Buddy Carlyle had the highest game score of any starter in the majors yesterday: 74.
2007-07-16 15:53:36
241.   bhsportsguy
231 Comparable deals, you can debate if they are comparable players.

Joe Mauer, who was entering his arbitration years, eligible for free agency in 2010, signed 4-year deal worth $33M thru 2010 season on 2/11/07- + he receives salaries of $3.75M in 2007, $6.25M in 2008, $10.5M in 2009 and $12.5M in 2010.

Brian McCann, who, like Russell was in his second year, signed a $26.8M deal thru 2012 season that supersedes deal for 2007 season on 3/22/07- + he receives a $1M signing bonus and salaries of $500K in 2007, $800K in 2008, $3.5M, in 2009, $5.5M in 2010, $6.5M in 2011 and $8.5M in 2012- + the deal includes $3M in salary escalators for the 2012.

234 If he is not moved, I see him as a younger version of Olmedo Saenz for next season.

2007-07-16 15:54:42
242.   D4P
Yeah, me too. He kinda sounds like "Alex Belth", but a little less New York. Actually, he kinda sounds like Jon too, but a little less "Weisman".
2007-07-16 15:55:57
243.   Uncle Miltie
228- I looked for off campus apartments around the school, but couldn't find anything. I applied for the dorms early as a backup option. I called the housing department and they said that I would most likely get a dorm. I'm hoping for Carson. I'm really not excited about the prospect about living in the dorms as a junior. I've already done that at my previous college and I've heard the Oregon is a dry campus.

231- being that Martin is a catcher who will be coming off of an outstanding season, it probably wouldn't hurt to wait another year. As long as Martin's agent isn't pushy like Scott Boras, I don't think it will be a problem.

2007-07-16 15:56:17
244.   natepurcell

I like the McCann type deal. Although if the Dodgers could add in more club options that would be preferable.

2007-07-16 15:59:20
245.   Uncle Miltie
On the other hand, decent catchers are hard to come by. Martin is one of the best catchers in baseball and is only 24 years old. If he puts up similar numbers in 2008, I could see Martin's agent not wanting to delay the free agent process by a year.
2007-07-16 16:00:15
246.   GobiasIndustries
CHICAGO - Slumping Barry Bonds was scratched from San Francisco's starting lineup Monday night, giving him a day to rest his aching legs. Bonds was originally listed in the cleanup spot and left field for the opener of the four-game series against the Chicago Cubs.
2007-07-16 16:01:03
247.   Hythloday
244 - I imagine it will be somewhere between the two. Russ is better than McCann and more of a commodity for a team with deeper pockets.
2007-07-16 16:01:06
248.   GobiasIndustries
Too much Beimel got to him.
2007-07-16 16:01:33
249.   D4P
I'm hoping for Carson. I'm really not excited about the prospect about living in the dorms as a junior. I've already done that at my previous college and I've heard the Oregon is a dry campus

There's a few "upperclassmen" dorms across from Carson that you might look into, if you can. I think the complex is named "Earl". On the plus side, living in a dorm helps meet people, which is good if you like people. Carson has the main cafeteria around there, which would be convenient.

I think people generally go off campus to drink. I don't think alcohol is allowed in the dorms.

2007-07-16 16:07:05
250.   regfairfield
247 McCann is a year younger than Russ and out played him at every age level. If he gets his average into the .280-.290 range this year, he'll still beat out Martin's 2006.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-07-16 16:07:22
251.   natepurcell
The 25 and younger group....

Martin 130 OPS+
Ethier 110 OPS+
Betemit 117 OPS+
Loney 170 OPS+
Kemp 153 OPS+
Abreu 92 OPS+

I think we might be the envy of alot of teams with all the young players actually performing well in the majors. I can't really think of a team that has that many players 25 and under producing producing above league average production.

2007-07-16 16:10:35
252.   Uncle Miltie
living in a dorm helps meet people, which is good if you like people
Yes, I do like people :)

I don't think you can actually choose the building. On the housing form, I stated that the upperclassmen dorms were my number one choice.

The thing I'm most looking forward to is the beer in Eugene. The hefeweizen I had while I was up there last time was terrific.

2007-07-16 16:11:43
253.   El Lay Dave
251 ...

Broxton 163 ERA+, 1.23 WHIP
Billingsley 134 ERA+ 1.20 WHIP

2007-07-16 16:16:09
254.   natepurcell

an early look at the upcoming free agent market. If the top tiers all go to free agency, it looks like a pretty good class actually.

Fukudome is rated #6!

2007-07-16 16:18:50
255.   Uncle Miltie
251- while Abreu hasn't been great with the bat this year (compared to our other young hitters), he's done an excellent job with the glove. He has a rate2 of 119 in 24 games at third base. Abreu has always been one of my favorite Dodger prospects because of his defensive ability and improving gap power. I'm hoping that Abreu can be our version of Jose Casttilo (before Jim Tracy ruined him)

On another note, my boy Cory Dunlap appears to be declining :(

2007-07-16 16:19:43
256.   Kevin Lewis
I am preparing myself for the AMPM pavilion. Tum ta tum tum.
2007-07-16 16:21:47
257.   natepurcell

dunlap's fat is getting in the way of his baseball playing. I think Abreu will be a good MLB 2b or SS. I think his plate discipline will improve to respectable and I am a fan of his doubles power and switch hitting bat.

2007-07-16 16:25:59
258.   natepurcell
wow i just saw that the Dodgers started Adkins out in Low A and not Rookie Ball.

Maybe they are fast tracking him as our newest LOOGY!!!

2007-07-16 16:33:29
259.   Vishal
[203] sorry, i'm partial to duck tales.
2007-07-16 16:36:10
260.   jasonungar07
Any of these guys thrill anyone? I am just looking around for Mid reliever/Set up types with some decent numbers. These guys come to mind. I tried to stay away from any team in first or second place (although a mariner is in there I belive)

Jaimie Walker
George Sherrill
Casey Janssen
Scott Downs
Joaquin Benoit
Octavio Dotel
Joakim Soria
Al Reyes
Santiago Casilla
David Riske
Rafael Soriano
Matt Capps
Ryan Franklin
Damaso Marte
Jesus Colome

2007-07-16 16:37:22
261.   underdog
Yeah, I dunno if "declining" is the best way to describe Dunlap's problems. ;-) "And Leon is getting laaaaarrrrrger."

258 I was thinking the same thing about Adkins. I could see him in the majors next year. Seriously. (Although, given how slow they're taking it with Meloan, maybe not.)

2007-07-16 16:38:06
262.   blue22
260 - Al Reyes

Flippant remark withheld.

2007-07-16 16:38:50
263.   underdog
260 I've heard the Dodgers linked to rumors about Dotel, who wouldn't be a bad 7th inning guy. I kinda like the looks of Matt Capps. I like some of the other guys on that list, too, but not sure how available they'd be.
2007-07-16 16:41:10
264.   natepurcell

i ageee dotel wouldnt be bad if the dodgers think his elbow will hold up. He isnt too old and he has shown he can be very good.


another reason is maybe the dodgers think Adkins is that advanced...or Logan is trying to justify the pick to all of us as a "look, see...he is actually good!" :)

2007-07-16 16:45:39
265.   FirstMohican
254 - I'm guessing the Dodgers retain the rights to Saito after this $1M contact is up? Otherwise he'd be mentioned somewhere in there?? How many years is he under control?
2007-07-16 16:47:55
266.   natepurcell

he would still be under control of the dodgers. Although Saito returning next year is not a slam dunk.

2007-07-16 16:48:30
267.   regfairfield
265 He's just like any other rookie and he technically has no negotiating power until 2009, when he becomes arbitration eligible. The only reason we would pay him is to keep him from taking his ball and going home.
2007-07-16 16:50:06
268.   natepurcell

What would you think about Fukudome? Do you think his success will translate over to MLB?

2007-07-16 16:50:31
269.   Jim Hitchcock
I was out of the loop this weekend (not even ESPN). Was Penny not scheduled to pitch Saturday?
2007-07-16 16:55:43
270.   Bob Timmermann
I've seen Fukudome play in person. I would say that I'm a very poor judge of talent and would have no idea how well he would do in MLB.

The only player I saw play in Japan whom I thought to myself, "Hey, he'd be good in MLB!" was Otsuka.

And I think I was right only by chance.

2007-07-16 17:01:01
271.   El Lay Dave
269 Pushed back to rest his blister.
2007-07-16 17:05:09
272.   Jim Hitchcock
Bob a poor judge of talent? I don't believe that.
2007-07-16 17:05:59
273.   Jim Hitchcock

Thanks, Dave.

2007-07-16 17:06:50
274.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

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