Right now, you can only point to Lowe and Penny as getting you into the 7th inning with any consistency. Hopefully Chad could be that guy as the season goes on.

But Wolf is pretty much a 6 inning guy and whomever pitches that last spot isn't much better.

Memories of the 36 games in 38 days and the short outings of all the starters lingers in the memories of Ned and Grady and unless we are going to start scoring 5-6 runs every night, they will need to feel comfortable enough with a 3 run lead to use someone else besides Beimel, Broxton and Saito every night.

Luckily or unluckily, they will finish their longest consectutive game streak this month so they will have an idea of where they stand with the pen.

I too think that Meloan is a viable option and once Wolf comes back, they will have decide if Tomko can do anything else besides pitch on the road in the mop up role.

True, but this is the bullpen we're talking about. Unless we're getting a true lights out arm, how much of a difference can one pitcher make in 20 innings versus a guy like Eric Hull?

According to VORP, the difference between Saito and Seanez at this point is only six runs, I imagine the gap between Dotel and Hull would be even less over the course of two months, even without counting the general randomness of middle relief.

It will be easier to find a high quality RP then a starting pitcher. Other then Millwood/Bush I don't see one possible SP who is better then what we have for the price that is available. So we will have to live with the rotation options that we currently have, which means we will only be getting about 5 innings 2/5 of the time. Thus it would behoove us to make the bullpen bulletproof. If we can lock down games from the 6th inning on it can only help. Just because it is a strength today does not mean it will be a strength tomorrow if we leave it alone. Meloan could very well be the answer so I'm not advocating a trade but I am advocating getting bullpen help however necessary. Without Billingsley and Tsao and the drop in production due to the impending injury to Seanez I don't see the bullpen as that much of a strength for the middle inning work that is going to be needed as we hit Aug/Sept.

We know what Hernandez can do, some years he's solid, other he's not but we need to know right now what Meloan can do. Is he ready for the bigs or is he just a big boy when dominating AA players. It would seem that the 6th/7th would be the perfect time to see what he's got.

The Dodgers essentially just need bullpen innings eaters to get them through the heavy part of the schedule. And that, they have.

In any case, the idea of focusing on bullpen help to solve a starting pitching problem seems off on its face. If you can get a reliever for nothing, fine. But my sense is that it's much more likely that a team will overpay for a reliever than get one for nothing.

The games in which a Dodger starter exits in under six innings are the games the team are least likely to win, and therefore the games least worth worrying about. Your chances of making a good trade for a reliever who will do more than Eric Stults in a 4-4 game in the fifth inning are so, so slim.

PS, Ned: Danys Baez and Lance Carter.

I am not advocating they move those guys either, heck let them all try up here before you go outside the system. But they will have some 40-man roster issues to address so they might need to figure out if they are worth keeping now.

I wonder why the Dodgers are hesitant with Meloan. he's a year and a half older than Broxton was when he came up. Putting him in high leverage situations in September would be foolish without seeing what he can do now. Gauging his ability before the deadline would really help the team know what it needs to do.

This Meloan thing is slowly starting to irk me.

This I don't agree with. Maddux left many games last year after 5 innings that were winnable. I think Chad will pitch a few games this year where his pitch count will hit 100 before the 6th but that we will be in the game. With our improving offense we may not be out of any game except blowouts.

You can argue about things like leverage but then it gets a little weird. Saito is worth about 2.7 more wins that Seanez this year according to WPA, but that stat is unfair to Rudy, since he gets used in low leverage situations, so it's not a good point of comparison.

Unless you can guarantee the guy you are bringing in will always throw in high leverage situations (not likely, or recommended), I'd just stick with the 10 runs per win conversion.

Okay, I am disputing it a little bit.

Two buy-low candidates I think would excel in L.A.: Dave Bush and Scott Baker.

If you score 710 runs and allow 700 you jump to 82.1-79.9.

720 and 700 jumps you to 83.2-78.8. And so on.

Basically 10 runs equals a win, unless your team plays a lot of low or high scoring games.

I hope that this is the type of conservations that take place at Chavez Ravine, all options explored, looking within before figuring out if Scott Proctor can adjust to the National League.

Anyways, enough platitudes, now back to our scheduled programming.

8/25/06: Left leading 6-3 after five innings. Dodgers lost 9-7 in the 15th. That's one for you.

9/4/06: Left with one out in the sixth inning, trailing 4-3, with bases loaded. Giovanni Carrara allowed two inherited runs to score. Dodgers lost, 6-3. That's two for you.

9/9/06: Left with two on and one out in the sixth, leading 2-1. Brett Tomko allowed both runs to score. Dodgers lost, 3-2. That's three for you.

9/20/06: Down 3-0, Dodgers pinch-hit for Maddux in the bottom of the fifth and scored two runs. Aaron Sele gave up three runs in the seventh; Dodgers lost 6-2. That's four for you.

Frankly, that's pretty stunning to think the Dodgers could have won the division by winning half those games.

The question is, can the Dodgers make a good trade that would turn those results around, without over-costing the team in other areas. I'm still dubious.

Again, note what I've written. I didn't say the Dodgers shouldn't boost their bullpen. I just want them to try doing from inside the team. How much would Octavio Dotel - at the price he costs the team - help? It's not as if he can't get hit.

In hindsite we could have nabbed Buck or Buchholz instead of Luke. Buchholz is now considered the top pitching prospect in the minors but I expect Yankee fans will clamor that Joba is.

1. Ned considers the bullpen to be a bigger problem than Nomar/Pierre, and thus more worthy of addressing

2. Ned considers the bullpen to be a smaller problem than Nomar/Pierre, and thus easier to address

Substantively, completely agreed on the Meloan situation... but here's the thing--maybe they're not calling him up because they don't want to start his major league service clock ticking and want to keep all his options, and bring him up next year instead? Given the 'pen's strength I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. And of course, if they really need help there (say Broxton or Saito gets injured, heaven forfend) then yes, they might as well call up Meloan.

Because whatever one's opinion of Nomar/Pierre is, they are already addressed. Either the right guys are playing or the right guys are ready to play.

In the Israel Baseball League today, our home team, the Bet Shemesh Blue Sox beat the Netanya Tigers 17-3 in the first game of a doubleheader.

The 17 runs were scored on a total of 5 hits.

The Blue Sox did benefit, however, from 12 walks and 7 hit batsmen.

To the best of my knowledge, neither Bruce Kison nor Rick Ankiel pitched in the game.

http://israelbaseballleague.com/scoreboard/

The option thing might be a problem, but it wouldn't take much imagination to keep him on the active roster.

But relievers are a different kettle of fish. Blown leads or blown saves are leverage situations with outcomes you can register. I'm not going to be able to explain my point of view without a 600 word megapost, but you get what I'm saying (I hope).

>>> "I think our offense has shown great improvement in the last month," Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti said. "I am not as concerned with that as I am with making sure we have enough pitching, whether it comes internally or from the outside." <<<

### Roberto Hernandez, the veteran reliever whom the Dodgers signed to a minor-league contract last week, was slated to make his debut for Triple-A Las Vegas on Monday night against Portland. Little hinted that Hernandez might be the leading candidate for a callup if the Dodgers go back to 12 pitchers, something they probably will do soon because they are four games into a stretch of 17 games without a day off. ###

http://www.presstelegram.com/sports/ci_6392252

34. screwballin
So the Times seemed to say that the home crowd booed Penny after 9 pitches last night? I missed the first few innings; can anyone verify or debunk that?

Assuming it's true, what is wrong with people who would boo their Cy Young front-runner during a winning streak who might be a little rusty because of the All-Star break? Sheesh.

http://playing4shekels.blogspot.com/

Roberto Hernandez is the key!

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6461

Eric Hull's last month and a half in Vegas.

16 games 22.1 IP 20 hits 7 ER 2 HR 8 BB 30 K 2.82 ERA 1-1, 5 saves

BTW, "play-dates" are the dumbest things ever. Gary Cooper never went on a "play-date"

Believe me, if people try to use that as a curse word, I'll delete it faster than Matt Kemp goes from first to third.

Las Vegas
Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA

Hernandez (H, 1) 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0.00

http://tinyurl.com/39ooka

But he's an overrated, wooden actor anyway. Give me Gregory Peck any day.

This

There is a new trend to boo when opposing teams hit a home run. I'm not sure what their thinking is. Maybe they are booing the hitter, kinda like throwing the ball back on the field (which they don't do) - but it sure sounds like they are booing the pitcher. Embarrassing.

I do my part by shooting dirty looks at anyone near me who is booing inappropriately.

That?

Gary Cooper would have been a solid Atticus Finch.

Off to a play date. Hooray!

Gary Cooper will always be "Tanglefoot." But I am thankful that due to "The Pride of The Yankees," I got my first glimpse of the lovely Teresa Wright.

The Netanya Tigers better watch out in the next Blue Sox game. An eye for an eye and all that.

In the "questions" thread a few days back, I predicted Meloan gets called up sometime before 8/31 to see what he does at the top level and to have easy placement on the playoff roster as an option. I'll stick with that.

Is there any reason the Dodgers haven't pulled Meloan up to Vegas to see what he can do at a level where there are (presumably) more experienced and more patient batters? (He'd also be conveniently closer there.)

I was sitting near the most booing that took place in the first inning. It was over by the right field flag pole. At first I thought everyone was booing Brad, but the fans in that area were booing/yelling at Phillies fans who were celebrating after Rollins scored. These were the same fans who celebrated runs 2 and 3 later on in the game as if they were on a comeback rally.

Oh, and lets stop doing the wave when we are on defense. It obviously was not helping Brad, so cut it out.

Tony Jackson answered back re the Kershaw callup and said it was not happening but Greg Brock and I discussed this and we both thought that, hey if he's ready, why not but then we would miss him in California so maybe its all for the best.

Anyway, back to Meloan, I think he may stay until August, he's still a year away from having to be protected but he is certainly one of their top prospects as we sit here today.

Also, Ankiel's not pitching. In fact, I'd take him over Pierre. I think he's the current PCL HR leader.

Wait...I read yesterday's posts. ;)

sounds familiar....huh?

And I honestly thought WT* was accepted webspeak.

"The Dodgers have logged 85 hits over the last six games, their largest six-game hit output since they had an astonishing 97 hits from Aug. 9-15, 1970 against the Reds, Pirates and Cubs."

As Penarol said, we gotta come up with a better name for these things. Because the concept is great, but the name is just too...you know.

I think we should call them "scrums" or something.

And there were cougars galore.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/box/2005/players/broxj001_p.shtml

https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/433962.html

I can see ZERO advantage to acquiring relief help from another team at this point. At a minimum, try to fix this from within, but really, I'm not even sure it's a huge problem.

"Finding a relief pitcher you can count on is like a dartboard toss. Track records are almost completely useless. When you think about it, it makes sense -- with only a few exceptions, relief pitchers are failed starting pitchers, showing at some point in their careers that they lacked the repertoire and/or consistency to survive a series of lengthy appearances. A move to relief pitching is a way of making lemons out of lemonade -- temporarily."

If we can trade a side of rice pilaf for a starter, great. But not LaRoche, Kershaw, Kemp, Meloan, etc.

83. In all fairness, pretty much everyone who was paying attention to Mark Alexander said that his stuff was never going to be good enough to play above AA. I remember, because he was a student of my dad's at the University of Missouri and he thought he was a great kid so I kind of herassed all of the Dodger prospect mavens.

And I've read your rants about the booing, just wanted to voice my agreement. This, and the fan rowdiness, have kept me from taking my kids to Dodger Stadium for a few years now. I guess that's why they're Angel fans, which really bothers me.

If I were the GM, I don't even know what I'd be looking for.

I know "wisely" is the key term there, and I have serious doubts that Ned will make the right move. But so far he's traded only prospects that have fallen flat, no? I think he deserves some credit for that, and I kind of assume Logan White is helping him make the right call on those.

So, I guess I'm saying that I'll be disappointed if the trade deadline passes us by. And that I'll probably be disappointed if it doesn't.

Maybe that makes me not much of an optimist this afternoon.

That's technically true although quite misleading. Broxton just needed a few games to get his sea legs that year. Once he stopped trying to strike everybody out, he did just fine.

Broxton pitched 14 games for the Dodgers in 2005.

First 7:
6.1 IP, 6 ER, 12 IK, 9 BB, 8.53 ERA

Last 7:
7.1 IP, 3 ER, 10 K, 3 BB, 3.68 ERA

Personally I'm not one to boo my own team no matter the circumstances as I take on the team and its play as a vicarious reflection of my love for the game and will defend it flaws and all. But to others at the stadium in search of entertainment above all else the game becomes a mere show and one that encourages fan participation. Combined with the declining respect for the players and the integrity of the game and you have a large set of people more than willing to boo anything not providing them with an adequate return of their dollar.

While I don't agree with their actions I cannot bring myself to reprimand such disrespect when the league and union has done such a poor job at respecting their fans. Class from the field emanates into the stands.

We have a good team here, one that could represent the NL in the WS. Let's not be foolish of course but a starter with some talent and post season expierence is something they should look into.

I would look into Woody Williams. He has strong numbers at DS and at Petco. There are better players than him of course and it's all dependant on what we give up but that's where my intention would be.

That's a stretch worthy of Willie McCovey. You'd have a very hard time convincing me that those complex thoughts were running through the mind of a single person who booed last night.

I have a simpler theoretical explanation: Beer.

16/14 = ~1.14

But he adopted two of them.

They would all kill Andrew and they would maim Greg Brock.

Bummer.

Next you'll tell me that Greg Brock isn't really Greg Brock!

>>> For his ninth start on July 3, teammates decorated his locker with congratulatory balloons and flowers. His 10th start will come on Wednesday, when he'll call signals while trying to retire his old friends.

"That will be exciting," said Lieberthal. <<<

http://tinyurl.com/2ycnvl

I'm a little worried though that he may be channeling Jim Tracy. In today's Times, Little had the following quote: "Am I comfortable with 11 pitchers? Not totally."

Would I like this trend of question answering to continue? No, I wouldn't!

141 - Grady's voice just doesn't seem real, frankly.

I like to call the joke "16 Daniels"

You play a baseball season with the team you have, not the team you want!

That once great pitcher underperforming on a losing team who just needs to be on a championship caliber team to get them back in the groove may need more than a full stadium to get that spark back.

Do I ever ask myself a question and then answer it? Yes I do.

Is Jim Tracy the only one to ever do it? No he's not.

Did Jim Tracy do it a lot? Absolutely.

"Derek Fisher...May be past his prime as a player, but intangible factors may make him a bargain."

OH COME ON!

Yay, stuff we can't quantify at all but might be important somehow!

Nothing beats a Grady Little Jiffy Lube commercial.

Jerry Yang (no, not that Jerry Yang) has played very agressive poker, to take a huge chip lead at the Final Table of Main Event at the World Series of Poker.

If he wins, there will be numerous references to the fact that he is not that Jerry Yang. It would be the same if someone named Bill Gates or Mike Dell won the WSOP.

I might need to try this technique with Mrs. Dave.

Q. Why isn't Kemp playing every day?

A. Well, that's not really important. The bigger question is, do we have enough quality to mix four or five guys in and out of the rotation? We do, and I'm very thankful for that.

I restate questions all the time. It's a cheap yet effective tactic.

I like the Woody Williams idea because NL West retreads seem to do well when they come back to the division. Someone like that who would only require a C-level prospect are the guys I'd be happy to get.

--

Or Sling Blade.

I like them French fried potaters.

I swear it's like the Angeles National Forest some nights.

Why, yes, I am single. Why do you ask?

That's what I was afeared of. Hard to look at the team the last few years and conclude that it's primary weakness was whatever Derek Fisher brings to the table.

3.38/1.18/.243 25 games at Petco
2.96/1.07/.216 10 games at Dodger stadium

Young fool. Only now do I understand the power of the dark side.

The Lakers need another frontcourt player and they can still afford Mihm, and he would certainly help. The bigger problem is a frontcourt shotblocker, but that would only come through trades I think. Nobody for the MLE would help there (that I can think of at the moment, anyway).

I think "intangibles" are more important in basketball than baseball, and Fisher brings those, apparently.

2007 - $6m (probably $2.6m or so remaining)
2008 - $6.25m
2009 - $6.75m option ($0.25m buyout)

Woody is not any better than Hendrickson or Tomko.

Quantifying defensive capabilities is also hard in basketball, and some have argued that Fisher increases team defense overall when he is on the court.

Which is short for "Get To Know In The Biblical Sense", or

MILTGTKITBS

I completely agree that the Dodger Stadium crowd has become way to quick with the boos. My friend and I were commenting on that at the game last night. When Houlton gave up those couple of runs the crowd started getting on him, which we both thought was nuts being up 10-3 at the time.

Perhaps getting booed by your home fans can be a motivator but I kind of wish the DS crowds would treat all the Dodger players like they treat Nomar. Even with as bad as he's looked at times this season, every time Low Rider blares though the speakers he gets support from the crowd...and I think that's great.

As far as Penny getting booed, it seemed to me that the boos in the first inning were directed at the home plate ump rather than at Penny. From where I was sitting (top deck, right behind home plate) it looked like Penny was getting squeezed on the first couple of hitters and I think the rest of the crowd felt the same.

Sorry for the long post. I guess that was pent up from the many weeks of not posting. :)

The misuse of the word bothers me as much as anything. Defense, playbook knowledge, teaching the game. These are things he can do. We've identified them. They are not intangible.

Fooling a bunch of 15 year old kids is simple.

I agree some were booing the umpire in the first, and later in the game when the Phillies scored some more runs, a lot of the booing was at the Phillies' fans who stood up, turned their back to the field, and attempted to heckle the Dodger fans. I felt like yelling at the guy "people have been shot in our parking lot, sit down you idiot"

Are you having a laugh? Is he having a laugh? {adjusts glasses} {grins stupidly}

Furcal, SS
Pierre, CF
Loney, 1B
Kent, 2B
Gonzo, LF
Nomar, 3B
Kemp, RF
Lieberthal, C
Hendrickson, P

Holy cow! I would have never guessed you were 46.

Have no idea how to predict tonight's game, so I won't.

Turn around Betemit? Gurnick must get the 1983 TV feed of the game, where the only stats shown are AVG-HR-RBI. Then again, it wouldn't take a genius to see Wilson's 10 HR among the team leaders!

Plus, a quick look to see if Mueller has started "turning around" Betemit:

Betemit under Murray: .223/.362/.476
Betemit under Mueller: .216/.310/.514

crosses fingers

Of course it does, don't answer that.

Gurnick isn't a fan of prospects. I remembered all the trade Loney propaganda this winter.

Over forty-percent of votes went to Magic Johnson. Vin Scully got 12%.

Guess how many percent Chick Hearn got? Zero. He was not even listed.

At some point, maybe we can discuss whether there should be any thought to moving Russell out of the third spot (there are some who say he should bat 2nd, okay at least one I know of, though I could live with that).

I think Loney maybe the best combo third place hitter, I like Kent at cleanup, at some point move Kemp 5th, Gonzo/Ethier could hit 6th, whoever is playing 3B, bat 7th, and then you know who could bat 8th.

.373 BA, .466 OBP, .720 SLG for a nice little 1.186 OPS.

Yesterday: The 30-year-old first baseman doubled in two runs in the first inning, then walked and scored in the third. He blasted a two-run homer in the sixth and went deep to left field with his 10th homer of the season for the 51s.

Or maybe he can get a Roy Hobbs-ian call-up in September.

I love Chick (RIP), but the fishwrap probably wanted to limit the choices to those who are still alive. I voted for Magic. He's the only true LA athlete who's considered one of the top 5 players ever to play the game.

Yes.

Also, Dontrelle's a fun pitcher to have around but he's incredibly overvalued at this point. The Marlins are looking to sell while he still has a reputation left, so they can get more than they should. I hope the Dodgers stay away, particularly with the asking price where it likely is.

I don't see a match.

Seriously, that's how much thought goes into these things.

It all depends on whether he's got Colletti's ear.

The guy who is winning got his seat by winning a $250.00 entry fee tournament at Pechanga Casino down near San Diego.

Tuesday Night is the night that we usually go to your Mothers place and teach her to use the video machine again.

Yeah Right.

Bell homers again (12) and greatest LOOGY ever pitches another scoreless inning (1H 0bb 2k).

Hmmm... lineup of the future...

C Russell Martin
1B James Loney
2B Tony Abreu
3B Andy LaRoche
SS Chin-Lung Hu
LF Delwyn Young
CF Matt Kemp
RF Andre Ethier

well, I don't mind at all.

I don't see any big trades happening anyway....all the GM's are afraid of getting burned...

Eh, Colletti could be GM of the year if he trades for the right pieces without giving up the 8 players above plus Billingsley and Kershaw.

Those are the only measurements I care about. Eat away, fatty!

He played plenty of CF in the minors. Although Fukudome should be our CFer next year :)

The Dodgers have the resources where they don't have to put the 45 million dollar team out on the field. Because of this, getting overly protective of low ceiling players seems unnecessary.

If the Dodgers can make the playoffs at the expense of one of those guys, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Young cannot play CF.

Another thing no one is tlaking about is that Miggy might be injestine a little more than just pastelles de pollo....A lot of juicers get really bloated when for whatever reason the roid's cause them to "hold water"...

So, whatever. I am, however still waiting for Alberto Bastardo to come up.

By the way, I can't get over how similar Kemp and Pujols's swings are, besides Pujols's crouch and ability to hit offspeed stuff.

Either when he is locked in has that same perfect balance that Poo-Holes has...obviously not the same hitter...

Those don't work. They just make the strikees angry, and increase their desire to do whatever it was you hoped to prevent by preemptively striking.

yeah i remember Gurnik hinting there was something wrong with Loneys knees at one point, just cause the guy walks kind of goofy doesn't mean theres something wrong with his knees.

I think the playoffs are a realistic goal without a significant acquisition. The question is whether or not any potential deal can get us over the Mets and ultimately over any of the loaded AL teams? If not, then I don't advocate giving up our prospects for the sake of winning one playoff game or series in the short-term. Of course, I'm only speaking of our core youngsters (Martin-Loney-Kemp-Billingsley-Broxton-Kershaw). I think the Indians have done an exceptional job with their core of Sizemore-Sabathia-Hafner-Westbrook-Martinez-Peralta-Lee in an ultra-competitive division. I think we can bring along our touted youngsters and just infuse them with some veterans here and there to bring them along. It seems as though Colletti was doing the opposite with his group of veterans and spot youngsters.

Agree with you and others. We don't need another reliver who can only pitch an inning at a time, rather we need a starter in the mold of Wilson Alvarez, who could give you a great 6 innings one day and then two days later give you an inning or two.

In his next couple of starts I think it is very important that the Dodgers try and push Billingsly past the 6th inning, so we don't constantly have to use the entire bullpen to finish a game-a part of the game that I hate to see, but it has become the norm....Any thoughts on the Pirates Shawn Chacon or Kyle Lose of Cincy. Any update on Kuo