I got LAT'd in the old thread:

Robothal is saying the Royals want Abreu or Hu for Dotel..

"The Dodgers are the front-runners for Royals closer Octavio Dotel — and the team's urgency could be increasing due to the uncertainty over closer Takashi Saito, who has missed the past four games with shoulder discomfort.

In return for Dotel, the Royals want a position player who is close to the majors. Dodgers Class AAA second baseman Tony Abreu likely is out of reach, but Class AAA shortstop Chin-Lung Hu could be a possibility."

The two quick HR's from Nomar might have made Betemit a bit more expendable for the dreaded middle reliever. Scarier still, Ned may prefer a Nomar/Betemit jobshare in 2008 than an awkward Nomar/LaRoche tandem.

Random Thoughts:
1. If Saito believes that it is related to his back, I am not sure that an MRI is going to answer this question, sounds like it is more to rule out severe shoulder injury like Randy Wolf.
2. It would not surprise me to see Eric Hull and Jonathan Meloan up with the club during the next road trip.
3. I give Grady credit for pitching Stults and Lowe today, though he may have been forced to do so, to make it a 6 man rotation and use starters out of the pen is something teams should explore, why not use a starter on his bullpen day in the game if it possible, they certainly can be effective as your 4th or 5th guy in the bullpen.
4. Martin has been shaky on wild pitches all year and he is going to have a poor stretch at the plate now and then, I don't think it is related to how many games he has played up to now, I hope though that Grady does give him a few more days off.
5. Loney has become the regular first baseman in less than a month, I think that is remarkable considering where he was back in June.
6. DodgerThoughts Day Redux, my biggest kick of the day was how many of you wanted to know which one of us was Greg Brock, after Jon, I think he was the poster who everyone wanted to meet.
7. Back to baseball, I don't think despite this past week, the bullpen is the biggest concern (though Saito's MRI may or may not change that thought). The big game this week will be Randy Wolf's rehab game on Wednesday. If Wolf is pain free after that start, he can be lined up to pitch back in Dodger Stadium during the next homestand. Ned could be right in saying that Randy Wolf then would be best pitcher available come the trade deadline.

I think that is plenty for now.

Thanks to the high angle Martin looks like a midget in shot 15 of Rob's otherwise great captures.

As required by law, images that depict the Golden One in a manor unfitting his stature are to be destroyed and scrubbed from history.

1 First it was Kemp or Loney, now Tony Abreu or Chin-Lung Hu. When they get to Blake Dewitt, Delmon Young or yes even Xavier Paul, then we can do some talking.

I happened to go to this game too (not quite the same as DT day) and it was frustrating to see the Dodgers lose this it more than the Mets won it. Losing Saito is a concern, but Jon is right about Broxton...he pitched well enough to get the save, but it just wasn't the Dodgers day.

There are other pitchers I'd have on the roster before Roberto Hernandez, but if the only hit he allows in an inning is to Jose Reyes, I think that's par for the course.

Good to put things in perspective I guess, but I really feel like this was the beginning of the downfall for this game.

Man, I wish Matt Kemp had caught that ball.

Yeah, me too.

I was hoping that Lowe would go at least one more inning. Figuring his bullpen session may consist of 35 pitches? I would imagine that 2 innings would not be out of the question. True there is still a lot more games to play, but a win is a win. Lowe being a sinker ball pitcher, would probably be effective being a bit tired on Wednesday. At least that is the saying on sinker ballers.

7 - How many pitches does a starting pitcher typically need to warm up. You need to factor that in.

OK, so I won't second guess the removal of Lowe. But I have to wonder about the pattern of usage of the middle and long relievers. Earlier in the season, you'd see Hendrickson or Billingsley pitch three or four innings in relief if a starter got shelled early. Although Stults pitched three on the 17th, I have to wonder what's happened to the "long relief." I wonder if the relief core might be a bit less tired if, say, Houlton and Stolts were allowed to be "long" relievers. Let the long-relievers be long-relievers, and let's avoid bringing in six relievers for 1 inning a piece. Coming out of lurkdom ...

Well, I'll admit, the Dodgers have gotten my hopes up enough that I was real disappointed to see tonight's score.

Maybe that's a good thing?

An NL reliever has pitched more than 3 innings just 28 times this season.

The Dodgers have had two relievers go more than 3 innings: Hendrickson and Tomko, the latter in a blowout in Toronto.

The Pirates have done it the most often with 5 instances.

There are more AL pitchers who have longer relief stints because of the DH.

Last season, the NL had 84 relievers who had stints longer than 3 innings (i.e. at least 3 1/3).

So at this pace, that number is going to be lower this season.

In 1962, the NL had 242 instances where a reliever pitched more than 3 innings.

A reliever will only go more than 3 innings now in an NL game if:
1) it's an interleague game in an AL park
or
2) the starter had to leave early because of injury or pitching poorly
or
3) desperation because of a very long game

10
And now, I must ask:

Why is Sam up so late?

Today's game was disappointing, but not shocking. The Mets aren't a bunch of potted plants. Day games get decided by 'lost in the sun' fly balls with seeming frequency.

In short, I'm still blissed-out from Saturday. And I'm positive they'll win again.

By the way, when you all were singing Take Me Out to the Ballgame, I was taking a video. Here it is:

http://tinyurl.com/yp38g5

Of course, it is totally from my perspective in Row U, seat 15. Next year, maybe I'll plan ahead.

11 As Jon said yesterday, Bob with the new search capabilities of BaseballReference.com is now the man with all statistical information.

11 Thanks for looking that up, Bob.

Sam has been at work since 1:00 pm this afternoon and just got home.

I have a meeting at 8:30 am EST (4 hrs, 45 mins) and can't sleep.

I'm glad I just write and type and stuff and don't drive a train.

P.S. Rob McMillan's pictures are great.

Steve Kline obviously has not seen the crack security at Dodger Stadium.

Bill Shaikin's story on what the Dodgers might have to deal with if Bonds is still pursuing the home run record.

http://tinyurl.com/36et6w

"He could hit it in our bullpen, and one of us can catch it and give the ball back to him," San Francisco reliever Steve Kline said. "I'm afraid some Dodger fan might jump down there and try to stab me. Who knows what kind of weapons they might carry. They're rough."

18. And they say there is no such thing as home field advantage. We've got the opposing teams fearing for their lives for Ch-i sakes.

9 - "I wonder if the relief core might be a bit less tired if, say, Houlton and Stolts were allowed to be "long" relievers."

I would say that if Houlton and Stults were a bit less tired, they might be allowed to be long relievers. They've been worked just like everyone else. Stults' outing today was essentially 5 1/3 innings of long relief - after all, he's the No. 6 starter.

A sneak peek at this morning's SI.com Fungoes:

Pitches by Dodger relievers since the All-Star Break
July 13: 38
July 14: 102
July 15: 62
July 16: 39
July 17: 126
July 18: 45
July 19: 95
July 20: 33
July 21: 37
July 22: 87
Average per day: 66.4

13 - Awesome video!

20 Starter's IP/Pitches since ASB
7/13: 6 IP/96
7/14: 6 IP/91
7/15: 5 IP/77
7/16: 7 IP/104
7/17: 3 IP/73
7/18: 5 IP/113
7/19: 3 IP/81
7/20: 6 IP/81
7/21: 6.1 IP/111
7/22: 5.1 IP/80

Average per day: 5 IP/90.7

We should trade Abreu well before we ever trade Hu. Betemit can play second base after Kent retires. But jury is still out on whether Abreu for Dotel is a good deal considering that the latter is a rental.

I may be the last attendee to comment on DT day. I did read all the comments and think the collective summarizations are quite good and accurate; looking forward to Jon's writeup. Many thanks to Jon and bhsportsguy to making it all happen, to the latter for his cookies, and to ToyCannon and scareduck for taking pictures, which I greatly enjoyed browsing. Most everything I could think of was covered here already, so I will only add the following:

1. For the record, my wife, who was keenly interested in this metric, counted six women in our group - apparently 3 wives, xaphor's sister, kaydcee and friend. She also stated that Frank McCourt spoke with us for about 40 minutes.

2. I sat next to dzztrat and dkminnick and enjoyed the exchanges we had regarding the game, the day we had, and other observations.

3. I sat in a different row and at the opposite end from Greg Brock, so I must be whatever the opposite of the belle of the ball is.

4. It was a beautiful day for a ballgame, and a fine day to meet some of the posters in the flesh. I only wish the stands were more conducive to socializing; kudos to Jon and ToyCannon for making the rounds.

5. My wife noted that Suffering Bruin "has a great radio voice."

6. I think xaphor's sister was indeed the sole DT T-shirt wearer.

Couple of Padre notes:

1. So far so good re Milton Bradley.
2. Michael Barrett = Team disharmony?, games where he has started, Padre record is 4-13.
3. Aside from Chris Young, other 4 starters in July with a 5.73 ERA, averaging 5.2 innings in 15 starts.

24 Bluebleeder87 wore his blue DT shirt as well as myself but mind was not as visible.

I still haven't written up my impressions of DT Day, nor I have I quite processed the Deathly Hallows. Long story short, both were beyond awesome.

I didn't know weekends could be this fun without scantily clad women, rock and roll, controlled substances, video games, or movies. But what a great couple of days.

Wouldn't a four man rotation help the bullpen? Hendrickson, Stults, Tomko, and Houlton can share the fourth spot, until Wolf gets back, assuming he does, and throw relief the rest of the time. If Saito is hurt, that means there's room for Meloan without losing any of our scrapheap.

It's unfortunate the starters haven't gone deeper into games the last couple weeks, but there's not much to be done about that. It's not like Grittle is obviously pulling them early. But I don't know what you do about it, anyway. Leaving them in to long is a solution worse than the problem.

To answer Canuck Dodger's question from the earlier thread, yes the new front load washer is amazing BECAUSE it's a front loader. Uses way less water (kinda important nowadays in SoCal) and the clothes are cleaner, with less wear and tear.

Man am I boring.

Is there a dryer corollary to the front load washer...?

I haven't discovered it yet.

I've been developing a solar-powered dryer for some time now. I can't reveal details, but I can say that it involves hanging clothes up outside in the sun light.

But wouldn't that involve using dangerous "pins" to hold the clothes? Think of the children.

I'm working on what I call a "safety pin" that that I believe will be safer than the wooden "clothes pin" of which you speak.

While the clothes pin consists of a dangerous wooden clasp to hold clothes up, my safety pin only uses a very sharp, needle like piece of metal. Here's a prototype:

http://tinyurl.com/2lh5mn

Matt Kemp has a great arm and appears to love the outfield assist. One result is his last two errors have come on relatively easy plays when he appeared to be anticipating throws. The first occurred on a ground ball single to right with runners on 1st and 2nd. He appeared to be concentrating on making a quick pickup and throw home to catch the runner trying to score from 2nd. Instead, he overlooked the fact that in order to make that play at home you must first ensure that you field the ground ball. It rolled under his glove and continued on behind him for an embarrassing error.

I didn't actually see yesterday's game and some have indicated he may have lost the ball in the sun. But my first reaction was to wonder if he was concentrating too much on making the throw home to get the runner tagging at 3rd (or to hold him at 3rd) and again failed to complete the play because of it.

Five-run rally helps lift 51s past Tacoma

>>> Andy LaRoche continued his torrid hitting Sunday for the 51s in helping them to a 6-2 victory over the Tacoma Rainiers in a Pacific Coast League game at Cheney Stadium in Tacoma, Wash.

LaRoche hit his second three-run homer in as many games to cap Las Vegas' five-run third inning. He added a sacrifice fly in the eighth. <<<

### The teams play a doubleheader starting at 11:30 a.m. today in Tacoma. ###

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/8656842.html

I have thought a lot about the idea of using a starter in the relief role between starts, and I just do not think most starters would go for it. These guys have huge egos, and I am sure many guys would simply not do it. Maddux is a name that comes to mind quickly.

Then, you have the idea of "If he isnt doing it, im not doing it" and it leads to the manager losing control.

26 - bhsportsguy--mind was not as visible
Many of my posts are like that.

I second - or third - that: excellent, excellent photos, Rob.

I only wish this one, tinged with a wee bit of irony, hadn't made me a little sad:
04_kemp_fields_sosas_pop

There is a lot of wishful thinking around here, pinning hopes on Wolfe's return. Memory seem to be short; Wolfe will aggravate you if you are pulling for the Dodgers.

On a bright note, Nomar seems to have found something back. Not all of it, but something more than what he had a week ago.

But wasn't Wolfe the one who said we can't go home again?

Thanks for posting the pictures, looks like the gang had a great time. I'll be attending tonight, tomorrow, and Wednesday, although I doubt any of the games will include a private audience with Frank McCourt. Hopefully they will include a couple of Matt Kemp bombs though.

40- It's wishful thinking to hope that Wolf's season isn't over? It may be wishful thinking to assume he's going to come back this week, and be exactly as effective as he was the first two months for the remainder of the season, but I haven't seen anybody posit that, just yet. Randy Wolf, if he can get healthy, is a fine back of the rotation starter. I don't know that he'll return in perfect condition, or even in serviceable condition, but, then, neither does anybody else. Embracing every worst case scenario available doesn't seem to be all that much smarter than cautious optimism. Practitioners of such a practice are certainly more of a bummer to be around, so, there's that.

35 - I saw the game on Sunday and Thursday. I agree with you on both points. It certainly looked to me like Kemp was trying to position himself for a catch and throw to home yesterday. I certainly like seeing Kemp come into the game, or start the game. Howver, I'm not sure that he he is a defensive upgrade from Gonzo. On the bright side, I think he'll get better defensively - he's just very raw. Unfortuantely, he probably won't get much better with the glove this year.

Re: the Dotel rumors, I saw this on mlbtraderumors.com quoting the NY Post (an unreliable source, to be sure), but this made me chuckle a bit:
"The Royals want a righthanded-hitting center fielder in return for Octavio Dotel."

{cough}Pierre?{cough}{cough}

Btw, I don't want the Dodgers to trade Hu, certainly not for just anyone, but I wouldn't be ripped apart if they did. I think his value could be as high right now as it will ever be and if they're going to trade a prospect, he may be the one I'd be less upset about than, say, La Roche.

And regarding relievers, what about the Nats' Cordero? Sounds like he's available, though Bowden's probably asking for too much.

Heard that the Jays asked about the Pirates' Wilson and then laughed at Littlefield when he asked for Glaus in return. Wouldn't be surprised to see Wilson end up in Toronto anyway, though (but not for Glaus).

THe DT choir video was great! The two times I always feel like I'm there is when Vin says "It's time for DODGER baseball" and the singing of "Take me out to the ball game".

Expect Vin to be on the helmets on coaches campaign, er, see the Griddle.

I've figured it out! It was the flash on Rob McMillin's camera that made Kemp drop the ball. I suggest a permanent ban!

45 I suppose Pierre couldn't be much worse hitting right handed.

46 Yeah that was the second thing that popped in my head after reading about that incident. After 'how awful.'

My initial take on all the photos: bhsportsguy looks a lot like Chris Isaak. But I'd have to see him in sequins to be sure.

[24] "5. My wife noted that Suffering Bruin "has a great radio voice.""

better than saying he has a great radio face :)

And it really seemed to me that Kemp lost the ball in the sun, or didn't pick it up right away. That was Vin's take on it also.

[27] i'm not into HP at all, but i have a friend who says she was quite disappointed in the film. lots of hanging plot elements and bad storytelling, etc...

53
Film or book?

film.

ah, not being into harry potter, i didn't realize that deathly hallows is the new book, and order of the phoenix is the new film. i guess i got them reversed :)

13 Hey! We can carry a tune!

51 Well, after seeing the photos, I'd say radio over television for ol' SB.

Sad news from the world of baseball.

http://sports.espn.go.com/minorlbb/news/story?id=2945798

Vin Scully has been saying for years that coaches should wear helmets on the field.

45 Don't they have a massive glut of outfielders with DeJesus signed long term?

42 We need photos! And... have a great time at the games.

I see that Bob had the story about Mike Coolbaugh. That'll teach me to scan the linkbar before posting.

[59] presumably they don't like dejesus' defense in center? emil brown is a starting corner outfielder right now, and if they don't think billy butler can hang in the OF, there's definitely room for improvement.

haven't posted here in quite a while, but just wanted to throw an idea out there...

as I understand it, the starters throw in between each start...if we are so beat up in the bullpen, why not have them pitch if necessary in the game instead of just on the sidelines...and not only because Lowe worked only 3 innings, he would have thrown between starts anyway...and why not let him go 2 innings yesterday?

just curiosity getting the best of me...

62 Hmmm...that would have made that contract a bad idea then, because DeJesus as a very average outfielder.

I guess if that's the case, they should get someone better than Gathright.

63
Hey, long time no see!

I hope you got all those people out of your kitchen.

During a day game the sun in Dodger Stadium can make it difficult to see the ball. The large crowd makes it hard to hear the ball being hit and a full swing can trick an outfielder. The biggest fear for an outfielder is for a ball to go over their head especially if that were due to taking their first step in. Standing in the outfield thinking of your next at bat or the one just completed makes it harder to deal with all sun and noise. But the theory that someone would be positioning themselves for a throw on a ball they were not sure where it was is difficult for me to appreciate.

65 they will be there til I die

Hey Howard - good to hear from you.

My speculation on Lowe is that because starting pitchers typically take longer to warm up, he may have done the bulk of his work in the bullpen Sunday even though he ended up pitching in the game. So perhaps he had another 10 or 20 pitches in him and they should have started him in another inning, but ultimately we really don't know what would have been appropriate. He had a really rough outing Thursday and might have needed to avoid extending himself too far Sunday.

I don't think there's anyone, including Grady, who couldn't see that Lowe pitched well in the seventh, so I would assume there was a reason he didn't pitch in the eighth besides a love for Hernandez.

I may have missed the posts but has anybody mentioned Gagne lately? Texas wants to trade Lofton and if they do, do they have another centerfielder to take his place? They want a second baseman and I know of one that has a ranch in Texas.

26 You were fashionably layered!

69
Pierre and Kent for Lofton and Taysherra.

71 - I was just thinking Gonyea.

I bought a white DT t-shirt, but after seeing the blue shirt (sported by ToyCannon on Saturday) I regret my decision.

Man-models can make t-shirts look better than they really are.

35 44 66 I've heard for decades that RF in DS in the later part of a PM game is a tough sun field; vague memories of Willie Crawford, maybe, flashing across my gray matter. Looked to me, on TV, that Kemp got a bad start and then was on a full run just to try and make the catch, as opposed to a planned "run into the catch" play.

Errors happen.

72
Pierre and Kent and Hernandez for Lofton and Taysherra and Gonyea.

68 you may be right, and I am sure, as has probably been discussed here ad nauseum, that the issue is Grady...his misuse of the pitching staff, which I believe is the root cause of all the sore arms and shoulders

76 - I want to keep Hernandays.

75 And he wasn't wearing sunglasses.

Thanks for the compliment, dzzrtRat. It's amazing how good you can get if you invest a little money in equipment.

43. It is good to have your cautious optimism balance my reality check (which always seem to be on the pessimistic side). Each season my hope is for the Dodgers to be in the world series, so that is the perspective I am working from; contrast that with what seems to be the prevailing sentiment here -- for the Dodgers to merely have a winning season. For the latter group the frustration level is not as high as mine.

Take yesterday's game. It is a blown game, period, to most. I look at it in a broader context: We cannot seem to beat the Padres head to head. We have to rely on other teams to beat them, and at the same time beat a non-Padres team in order for us to gain grounds. So yesterday's fiasco puts more pressure on us when we face the Padres.

Pardon my long-windedness, but 19 years of disappointment tends to make me grouchier than most of you.

And, BTW, back atcha with the compliment on the video. Very nice!

58 - re Coolbaugh, he leaves behind two children and his wife is pregnant and due in October. And technically, he wasn't even supposed to be there; he was the interim hitting coach!

71, 76 - My thoughts boil down to not wanting to trade good prospects and if there is a trade to be made I would prefer to trade the older players. I am happy with the team as it is and when appropriate bring up Meloan, my preseason longshot surprise to close for the Dodgers this year.

I forgot to give kudos the entire DT contingent for the thoughtful and insightful questions asked of Frank McCourt, particularly since we did not know until minutes before he arrived, of Josh Rawitch and of Camille Johnston. I did not offer one, the few I thought of were asked before I could muster up the courage to speak.

81 I wouldn't say the Dodgers can't beat the Padres. They have a losing record this year against them (5-7), and last year was bad too (5-13), but there's not some magical voodoo San Diego has over LA.

81 We cannot seem to beat the Padres head to head...
Dodgers vs. Padres 2007:
5 wins, 7 losses, or one game away from .500, or even with SD.

85 - could it be called "starting pitching"? Just off the top of my head, it seems like the Pads have the division's best or second-best rotation (behind possibly the Giants, whose staff seems to be generally underrated).

85 86 The Dodgers haven't gained ground head-to-head with the Padres, but they've only lost ground by one game, which seems in keeping with the close nature of the division race.

81 Each season my hope is for the Dodgers to be in the world series, ... what seems to be the prevailing sentiment here -- for the Dodgers to merely have a winning season.

My hope also, but it is NOT a realistic goal or expectation. If I based my emotional responses in life in a comparison to my hopes, rather than my realistic goals and expectations, I be a pretty unhappy individual.

I also am not sure how you draw your conclusion on "prevailing sentiment".

66. Apparently, the sun wasn't a factor with Kemp yesterday.

Shaky bullpen costs Dodgers

>>> "No excuse, I got a bad jump on the ball," Kemp said. "Things happen. I'm human. Everybody makes mistakes, and that was one mistake that I made. It was pretty costly and we lost the game because of it." <<<

http://www.presstelegram.com/sports/ci_6440513

87 Right. Here are the Padres starters in their 7 wins vs. LA:

Peavy thrice
Young twice
Maddux twice

Padres starters in the Dodgers' 5 wins:

Wells twice
Germano
Hensley
Young

89. Well put, ELD. I like to call it "letting the ideal be the enemy of the good." Not sure who coined that phrase, but it's a good one.

81 - "Pardon my long-windedness, but 19 years of disappointment tends to make me grouchier than most of you."

I don't see why you should be grouchier than a) the many people who have endured the 19 years of disappointment or b) the younger set, which has never known a World Series victory.

93 Exactly, this team has won one playoff game since I was four, so I'm pretty unhappy myself.

This doesn't mean that I expect the Dodgers to win every game, nor take it out on youngsters. What bluegold seems to want, bringing in established veterans, is exactly the attitude that got us in this mess in the first place. The Dodgers are on the precipice of being an elite team, all you need to do is show patience.

Given that there are 30 teams in the league, winning a World Series more often than once in every 30 years is "good".

The Dodgers have won 2 in the last 26 years.

44. On the bright side, I think he'll get better defensively - he's just very raw. Unfortuantely, he probably won't get much better with the glove this year.

He's my favorite player but one thing I've never liked is his one-handed catches and wish someone had gotten him out of that habit in the minors. Granted, the gloves players use today are huge improvements over the ones used back in the day when outfielders HAD to use both hands. Still, as an old school baseball fan I prefer to see outfielders use both hands when they have time to set themselves. So, even when Kemp has time to camp under a lazy fly ball I find myself heaving a sigh of relief when he actually catches it. :-) Like you though, I expect him to improve with playing time (he probably spent too much time playing basketball before settling on a baseball career :-) ). My expectation is he will be a better defensive outfielder than Manny but not make anyone forget Clemente.

New post up top.

92 Thanks. The thought is Voltaire's, "The best is the enemy of the good."

95. Well, that might be too low a standard. It's not like it's a level playing field in MLB. The Dodgers are a huge-market team with a bloated payroll. They should win more than their fair share.

98. Nice. Thanks.

68-Jon -Viewed game thru NY "feed". Camera was on Honeycutt-Lowe when Rick informed Derrick he was "out" of game. Camera followed Lowe to end of dugout and down stairs. Lowe slammed glove against wall-he was visibly upset. Only logical explanation was he wanted to continue-especially after Mets tuned him up Thurs. I certainly wanted him to stay in there!
PS-You mentioned Hernandez only allowed hit to Reyes-Milledge almost took his hand off with line drive. Better off with two (or maybe three ins) from Lowe and Broxton for 9th if Lowe only goes two.