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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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2007-08-03 07:41
by Jon Weisman

Periodically, Dodger Thoughts reader Stan from Tacoma generously sends me old tapes of Dodger broadcasts from years back, broadcasts that of course feature Vin Scully. While cleaning out my car over the weekend, I stumbled onto one that I hadn't actually gotten around to hearing.

Found treasure, right? I had no idea.

I listened to it as I drove to and from work all week. It was a game from 1969, and when I popped it in, I had no idea what game it was or what would happen. It was a trip back in time.

By coincidence, when it came time to write another piece for this week, I had the idea to simply chronicle how Vin treated the Barry Bonds extravaganza at Dodger Stadium this week, including how he would end up approaching the call if Bonds made history.

Well, you know what happened on the field Thursday night. Here's what happened with the column:

Two outfielders. Two milestones. One Vin Scully.

Yes, the famed Dodgers announcer has been conducting the orchestra for some time now. On Thursday night, he presented a movement of Barry Bonds and his chase of Hank Aaron's record home run total. And 38 years ago, he played a symphony of Willie Davis and his chase of Joe DiMaggio's record hitting streak.

A great deal has happened in the world of baseball in the intervening time, but you know what they say about the more things change ...

Comments (255)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-08-03 07:56:09
1.   Hythloday
This was LATed:

Calling Proctor untalented is a bit of a stretch. He is adequate. We have Broxton and Saito and then we need to fill the middle with a bunch of adequate relievers. Given the limitations of our starters it makes sense to add as much depth to those middle relievers as possible. On the other hand since the break Nomar has been playing quite well and we would all feel comfortable calling up LaRoche. Betemit, though good, was superfluous.

My point in was that the crown jewels are for sale, but they're on display in a flea market. What the market looks like can't be helped. What you get in return for the jewels can be helped. To mix metaphors here: it may not be efficient, but Colletti can't pull up to a Civic dealership as you say, he has put an ad in Auto Trader and see what happens.

2007-08-03 08:01:50
2.   Charenton
In Stan McNeal's Sporting news article picking LA as the best baseball town cited here yesterday, I couldn't believe that he made no mention of Vin…The MVP year after year… Could Dodger fans even imagine a bumpkin like Rex Hudler replacing him ? How great it is to listen to over here in France and to hear Vin on a regular basis again.
2007-08-03 08:03:32
3.   Hythloday
Great piece of writing Jon. I like Vin and all, but your writing on him gives me a level of appreciation that I might not otherwise have.
2007-08-03 08:03:33
4.   Bob Timmermann
The boxscore of the 1969 game:

And now the home run call is back in the hands of the Giants crew and the Padres announcers. Quite a dropoff from Scully to Vasgersian or Scully to Leitner.

2007-08-03 08:04:17
5.   Charenton
more on

i keep trying to listen to last night's game but it keeps on switching over to Monday's game just after Vin's introduction - is anyone else having this problem ?

2007-08-03 08:14:24
6.   Im So Blue
This was also LATed:
Disney Channel & MLB have released their music video "I Don't Dance" from "High School Musical 2" that features Gonzo, Nomar, Takashi Saito (and 16 other MLB players).

Here's the press release:

and here's where you can find the video online:

This is the segment that Josh mentioned on ItD a little more than a month ago:

2007-08-03 08:17:08
7.   Bob Timmermann
Leitner and Vasgersian are not happy about the prospect of calling home run 755 or 756.

2007-08-03 08:18:31
8.   Vishal
[6] nick swisher is the biggest ham ever.
2007-08-03 08:25:45
9.   caseybarker
I hope I never have to listen to Leitner again. I need satellite radio.
2007-08-03 08:28:33
10.   bhsportsguy
Very nice piece Jon. There is nothing like listening to Vin on a summer's evening describing the action on the field while tossing references from Shakespere to Ruth (George Herman).

For those who went to one or more of the last three games, it will be nice to get back to baseball again. It was like watching "Home Run Derby." Everytime Bonds came up, you prepared yourself for the event, then when it didn't happen, you calculated the next time Bonds would be up and then made your plans to get something to eat, go to the restroom, whatever.

From my section, the fans were pretty decent, sure some boos but nothing outrageous, on Tuesday night, a man wearing a Dodger uniform, gave Bonds a standing ovation everytime he came to the plate.

2007-08-03 08:29:14
11.   bhsportsguy
9 Satellite won't help you if the Padres are playing at home.
2007-08-03 08:29:33
12.   Andrew Shimmin
1- I responded in the last thread. The gist of it was that I hadn't meant to imply that I th0ought he was untalented.
2007-08-03 08:30:53
13.   PlayTwo
Nice piece, Jon. I'll have to read it again. Scully has a sense of story, a trait not encouraged in baseball broadcasting. If you listen to Scully on an old tube radio with its clicks and cracks he sounds like a voice from the past.
2007-08-03 08:41:45
14.   caseybarker
11 I thought about that. Is Sirius the same as XM in that regard?
2007-08-03 08:44:15
15.   Vishal
that was one of your best SI pieces yet, jon. i enjoyed scully's broadcast last night immensely as well. many of the moments you highlighted also stuck out when i was listening.
2007-08-03 08:52:30
16.   Wilbert Robinson
last night i was watching the game and Viv was talking about Barry Zito being able to talk about the judicial process and the middle east. One of my roomates was also watching and he says "Who is this guy what is he talking about? What an idiot!" So after he went to sleep I put cat litter in his shoes.
2007-08-03 08:52:46
17.   Wilbert Robinson
Vin not Viv
2007-08-03 08:52:49
18.   WillieD
I enjoyed reading about your found treasure, Jon. It's great recalling fond memories, on a day after like today. Vin Scully, and our very own Willie Davis, on one's little transistor radio, glove in hand, ball in and out, lazily imagining....

Those were the days, for me personally, before my parents moved the family out of local Dodger radio affiliate range - - and for many years off into the wilderness of occasional late night snatches of precious Dodger games on the radio. Thanks for the box, too, Bob Timmerman, it's fun to think about.

2007-08-03 08:56:32
19.   dzzrtRatt
Jon -- the SI column was great. I had the same reaction to hearing Scully describe Guillermo Rodriguez going out to the mound in the third inning to talk to Zito. Vin had set it up perfectly, without of course knowing what would happen. Some announcers are praised because they can seemingly predict what's going to happen in the game. They notice the first baseman holding the runner creates a hole in the right side, and sure enough, the next hit goes through that hole. Scully does the same thing with a narrative. He intuitively figures out all the story angles of the game and sets them up, and then as the game unfolds, a lot of them pay off with what amounts to a punch line. This is part of his magic.

I noticed the flubs more in the first month of the season. He seems a little sharper now. It is unbelievable that he is nearly 80. He rarely sounds like it.

2007-08-03 08:59:18
20.   dzzrtRatt
17 You got Christine Daniels very excited for a minute. What could be better than going shoe-shopping with Viv Scully?
2007-08-03 09:11:11
21.   scareduck
I keep meaning to get Helen to clean up these tapes in her studio. She's been kinda reticent for various reasons.
2007-08-03 09:11:58
22.   Greg Brock
Really nice article, Jon.
2007-08-03 09:22:15
23.   fanerman
When I'm up in NorCal, I miss Vin Scully more than anything else about the Dodgers.
2007-08-03 09:25:31
24.   Rich Lederer
Jon, Good job in weaving back and forth between the Bonds and Davis stories, just like Vinny when he is calling two games simultaneously during a pennant race. Bravo!
2007-08-03 09:29:53
25.   Wilbert Robinson
23 Listening to Vin on the east coast is the perfect cure for home-sickness. Often times I'll feel kind of disappointed that the game isn't going to extra innings even if it means the dodgers just managed to close out the game.
2007-08-03 09:30:31
26.   Robert Daeley
If a batter was dancing at the plate like that, I think I'd have to brush him back too.
2007-08-03 09:31:33
27.   underdog
Nice piece, indeed, Jon. And that earlier game happened just a few months after I was born. (So I don't remember it, per se, but I do feel like I've been listening to Scully since infancy.) Also compare his call of the game yesterday vs. the ESPN duo, who were basically clueless when it came to talking about the game other than Bonds.

My only suggestion is you should break that up so every sentence is its own paragraph, like Plaschke does - you know, for all of us brain-dead, short-attention-spanned folks. (j/k)

23 Ever think of subscribing to MLB audio? You can listen to Dodger broadcasts that way, including when Scully does games...

2007-08-03 09:31:38
28.   ToyCannon
That was great. I'm sure I listened to that game but I'm also sure I didn't enjoy it as much as reading about it 38 years later.
2007-08-03 09:32:08
29.   GoBears
Wow, what a treat. Great, great job, Jon. It's always enjoyable to read you here, or at, but for some reason, this effort just seemed superlative. The idea to juxtapose the two games, 38 years apart, was inspired (thank to Stan, too!), and the rhythm of the piece was perfect.

I actually found myself holding my breath while I read, anxious to find out if Willie made it, and anxious to read the next Scully quote.

One might think that articles quoting Vin Scully sorta write themselves. But that's not correct. Sure, he provides some of the libretto, but the art is in the package. ought to pay you double for that one.

2007-08-03 09:32:46
30.   blue22
I liked Vin's description of the camera flashes going off before every pitch to Bonds as the "jewel box". Classic Vin.
2007-08-03 09:36:34
31.   Greg Brock
29 SI shouldn't pay Jon double. The LA Times should ditch the clown they use to amuse the masses and take notice.
2007-08-03 09:40:22
32.   GoBears
31. Back to the circus motif, eh?

Jon's better off here. The LA Times is a sinking ship, and better Jon should write about it than get sucked under.

This internet thing could catch patient.

2007-08-03 09:42:48
33.   fanerman
27 Yeah I have, but it's sort of a pain to sit down on the computer just to watch or listen to a Dodger game. I'm still considering it.
2007-08-03 09:43:33
34.   Greg Brock
32 The internet? Is that thing still around?

On a "cheap journalistic question" scale of 1-10, asking the governor of Minnesota if he "personally feels guilty" for the bridge collapse ranks where? I'm saying 9.

2007-08-03 09:43:50
35.   JJ42
Just wanted to say thank you Jon for an excellent and enjoyable read.
2007-08-03 09:44:25
36.   Wilbert Robinson
Yikes! Steinbrenner is not doing so hot these days apparently...

2007-08-03 09:46:28
37.   bigcpa
Great read Jon- it helps that I didn't know the ending. What struck me was Vinny's line "the Dodgers are still the Dodgers." I think I said the same thing after Rich Donnelly waved in Kent and Drew. He said it with such optimism.

That looked like quite an NL West race that year with ATL, SF & LA tied up on Sept 18th. Then the Dodgers lost 10 of 11. Glad I missed that one.

2007-08-03 09:47:43
38.   D4P
The masses don't want to pay for much, least of all maintaining and repairing existing infrastructure. New infrastructure projects are much sexier and easier to sell. Plus they help you get re-elected.

"Look what I did: I get those new roads built! That's progress! Re-elect me! Or better yet, support my candidacy for a higher political position!"

2007-08-03 09:50:34
39.   fanerman
Oh yeah, I was lost in my Vin Scully reminiscing that I forgot to praise the brilliance of that article. Maybe I have a different mindset when I read an article knowing it was written by you, but I see perhaps a Scully-esque approach of not trying to "force phony excitement" in your writing (no headline grabbing, scare mongering, controversy for the sake of controversy). It brings back some of the magic to the game. It's so refreshing. Thank you.
2007-08-03 09:50:52
40.   Greg Brock
If Minnestotans think their infrastructure is bad, come on out to California and take a look.
2007-08-03 09:51:34
41.   mankatododger
38 Trying to avoid a rule 5 violation here, but attempts to raise the gas tax in Minnesota to pay for infrastructure improvements have either been vetoed or threatened with vetoes.
2007-08-03 09:51:44
42.   Marty
I remember the hitting streak very much, just didn't remember it was 1969. I would have said 1971. I'm sure I listened to that game as I was following the streak both on the radio and in the paper.
2007-08-03 09:52:45
43.   Vishal
[38] well, as a voter, "hey, i repaired all the horrible crumbling potholed roads that everybody hated, and i made sure that the bridges will last another 50 years without falling down!" sounds pretty good to me.
2007-08-03 09:54:49
44.   D4P
People also tend not to want to pay for preventative measures that help prevent uncertain disasters. They'd rather wait to disaster strikes and pay for cleanup and reconstruction and such.

Course, their unwillingness to pay for prevention doesn't stop them from blaming politicians for not doing something to prevent the disasters.

2007-08-03 09:55:48
45.   D4P
Yeah, but doing all that stuff usually also means "Hey, I raised taxes and/or cut spending in other important areas to do all that stuff!!!"
2007-08-03 09:55:59
46.   Humma Kavula
44 This part of the thread is veering dangerously close into Rule 5 territory.
2007-08-03 09:57:35
47.   caseybarker
Or, instead of fixing roads, bridges, traffic problems, I squandered tax money on projects that either went nowhere, did not show results, or could not be evaluated.
2007-08-03 10:00:14
48.   D4P
I live on the edge. Or at least, I play a guy on The Internets who lives on the edge.

But really, Rule 5 is less about political concepts and human behavior than about particular politicians, parties, etc.

Saying that people are unwilling to pay for stuff isn't incendiary, at least not relative to stuff like "Politician X is terrible and stupid and his/her party is a joke."

2007-08-03 10:00:47
49.   underdog
Yeah, too many rule 5 violations (and a rule 1 violation) are floating in my own head, but suffice it to say, that reporter's question isn't as cheap as it might seem. But anyway, I know a few people in Minnesota who could tell you about what they knew about that particular bridge and how many times a particular bill was vetoed, and so on.

But back to baseball! Billingsley, tonight! Go Bills!

2007-08-03 10:00:53
50.   Vishal
[45] i suppose. but i was just saying that if you can sell new roads, you should be able to sell other infrastructure projects as well. it's all in how you spin it. whether people want to pay for infrastructure in the first place, well that's another story. and yeah i suppose we should leave it at that for rule 5 purposes.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-08-03 10:01:35
51.   KG16
It's easy to forget how lucky sports fan have been in Southern California, growing up listening to Vin Scully and Chick Hearn - two very good reasons that I will always love baseball and basketball, and in particular the Dodgers and the Lakers.

14 - Sirius doesn't carry baseball. But for the other sports, you generally get the home team's broadcast (exceptions late in the playoffs, usually)

2007-08-03 10:03:15
52.   underdog
In other news, who wants to play keeper for my soccer team on Sunday? No pay, but you'll get the glory and accolades and skinned knees that come with the job.
2007-08-03 10:04:13
53.   KG16
Any one know if the 51s are in Vegas next week? I'm thinking of heading out there Saturday and staying for a few days, a game would be a nice break from cards
2007-08-03 10:04:13
54.   Greg Brock
52 I still have my gloves and leggings and a sweet keeper jersey.

But I'm seven hours away :-(

2007-08-03 10:08:18
55.   D4P
but i was just saying that if you can sell new roads, you should be able to sell other infrastructure projects as well. it's all in how you spin it

I don't disagree, but the reality is apparently that new projects are easier sells. A lot of people equate growth with progress.

2007-08-03 10:13:21
56.   D4P
July was an interesting month for the Dodgers.

July OPS: .809
Season OPS: .745

July ERA: 4.74
Season ERA: 4.01

2007-08-03 10:14:04
57.   underdog
54 If you start hitching now, you should be here in plenty of time!

Man, I may have to step in and be keeper. If I don't report back here on Sunday afternoon you'll know why.

2007-08-03 10:15:45
58.   underdog
53 The only 51s home games coming up are a week from Friday (the 10th) through that Monday, home against Sacramento.
2007-08-03 10:16:29
59.   bhsportsguy
53 They are at home just for you.

August 10 vs. Sacramento 7:11 PM
August 11 vs. Sacramento 7:11 PM
August 12 vs. Sacramento 12:05 PM
August 13 vs. Sacramento 7:11 PM

Anyone else bugged by Tomko's comments in today's papers.

Suffice it to say, when you are 2-9, show no confidence on the mound and drop a return throw from the catcher with a runner on third (he did that in the 1st), you shouldn't be saying things like the fans should support you at home and that I was a bit wild in the first inning.

Hey Brett, when you pack up for the road trip, go ahead and clean out your locker too.

2007-08-03 10:18:18
60.   Satchmo
After two years of lurking here in San Luis Obispo, that article motivated me to register and finally chime in. It's a great piece of work, Jon. I truly enjoy your sports writing.
2007-08-03 10:18:25
61.   KG16
58, 59, thanks but I really hadn't planned on staying for a week (unless I was running very hot). When I said Saturday, I meant tomorrow, probably should have been more clear about that.
2007-08-03 10:19:55
62.   dzzrtRatt
51 We've had even more than just Scully and Hearn. Dick Engberg made crummy Angels games interesting and entertaining. He also, as I recall, worked the Rams. When the Raiders were here, we got to hear Bill King every Sunday. He was spectacular. One might say we get the cream of the industry because we're in a big market, but that doesn't explain how terrible some of the NY and Chicago team broadcasters are.

Scully is far and away #1. Hearn had a fun schtick, but Scully is much more than schtick. He is a learned, genuinely curious man with a Zen-like emotional equanimity, who also happens to be one of the last exponents of the professional qualities of radio broadcasting's golden age.

The league would do well to enable all baseball fans to subscribe to Dodger TV broadcasts wherever they are in the world, at least until Scully retires. Scully is wonderful on the radio, but he only gives us three innings there, and radio listeners have to deal with him describing camera shots they can't see, which makes his comments sometimes a little surreal. TV has become his true medium.

2007-08-03 10:20:10
63.   Greg Brock
57 Keep your line, come out and challenge breakaways, thumbs touch when catching the ball, and protect yourself.

You can do it!

2007-08-03 10:26:02
64.   D4P
And don't let the ball cross the goal line.
2007-08-03 10:26:03
65.   KG16
62 - what I never quite understood is when the Dodgers were owned by Fox, why they didn't have Vin doing the big games in the playoffs. I know he doesn't travel much any more, but doesn't the nation deserve better than Joe Buck and Tim McCarver? Heck, I still believe that Vin should be doing the World Series games.
2007-08-03 10:26:59
66.   D4P
doesn't the nation deserve better than Joe Buck and Tim McCarver?

Deserve's got nothing to do with it.

2007-08-03 10:28:48
67.   bryanf
The combination of Jon's writing and the topic of Vin Scully has brought tears to my eyes. This is truly a great read Jon, particularly since I did not get the chance to watch the game last night (or in 1969 of course). So great.
2007-08-03 10:29:16
68.   Greg Brock
64 If the ball gets to the keeper, ten other guys have failed.

Goals are never the keeper's fault. Blame everybody else!

2007-08-03 10:31:27
69.   Im So Blue
62 Dick Enberg was also the voice of UCLA basketball during the John Wooden championship years. We'd go to the games at Pauley, then go home and watch the replay on KTLA.
2007-08-03 10:32:25
70.   Wilbert Robinson
62 And don't forget about Bob Miller.
2007-08-03 10:33:30
71.   Andrew Shimmin
68- And shout, "Off sides!" Any time the ball comes within fifty yards of the goal, it's offsides.
2007-08-03 10:37:57
72.   Greg Brock
71 Shimmin understands the beautiful game.
2007-08-03 10:41:22
73.   Kevin Lewis
I was at the game last night, and I was pulling for Tomko to put in a good show. As much as I hate his pitching, I really can't stand seeing one of our own players booed before he even throws the first pitch, let alone the other times in the game. Yes, Jon, he was applauded for when Grady came out to check the injury, and then booed when the fans saw he would not come out of the game. As bad as the first inning was, he kept us in it, and I don't know how many bases loaded situations we need to score some runs. It was sad to look up at the box score to see 11 hits and 1 run scored.

This may have been discussed in last nights thread, but if Grady was willing to put Kent in the on deck circle in the ninth, than why was Kent not the one to bat in place of Olmedo? IMHO it seemed like the best time to bring Kent in if he felt up to it.

Finally, I am always amazed at how violent our culture is. People can go so quickly from casual heckles to "I want to take your head off". I sat in the Reserve section, and I saw at least three groups escorted out last night. I began to lose my patience with some of the fans, and I probably yelled more than was necessary. First, I yelled when we were booing Tomko and then I yelled at the guys in front of us to just sit down and watch the game, instead of trying to start a fight with another Giants fan.

Oh well, here is to a great outing from Chad tonight!

2007-08-03 10:42:15
74.   Greg Brock
71 Andrew, a lot of us around here (at least underdog and Hallux Valgus, I'm sure) have played seven aside footie with no offsides rule, and it's terrible. You just have guys cherry-picking in front of the goalie, and guys launching the ball down the field to the cherry-picker.

Soccer without offsides is ten times more boring. Imaging more boring soccer. That's bad.

2007-08-03 10:45:25
75.   fordprefect
Did you notice the SLO T-T is starting to run some of Plaschke's drivel on the front of the sports section? Another week of that and I'll have to cancel my subscription.
2007-08-03 10:47:56
76.   Andrew Shimmin
74- I'm like the Yakov Smirnoff of soccer jokes. I've only got the one, but I really like it.
2007-08-03 10:49:03
77.   bluegold
Yes, very good article indeed. Re: Scully, I have to admit that I am getting tired of the deuces are wild bit -- mainly because of late when I hear him say it, it is because the Dodgers are in deep doodle, not the opposing team.

One comment about the Dbacks series. At this point I would be elated to take one game from them this weekend. This is the current state of Dodgers in my mind.

2007-08-03 10:51:22
78.   jasonungar07
The only way to make soccer not boring is to keep the field size the same, keep the rules the same and make it 8 vs 8 instead of 11 vs 11.

As someone who has played the main issue out there is space and time. On TV it looks like you have 5-6 yards out there between you and the defender and that you can see the field like the TV camera does. It's just not the case.

2007-08-03 10:51:39
79.   Greg Brock
76 To be fair, it is a good joke.
2007-08-03 10:54:55
80.   Michael Green
Jon, great article on not only a great broadcaster, but a wonderful human being. And we (I include myself in the LA area because in Las Vegas, we have gotten a lot of LA broadcasts over the years) have been lucky in all of our sports.

Vin does slip a little more than he used to, but there's a memory I treasure--and I'm sure I remember it correctly. In 1994, he had a tough time after his son Michael died. I remember on Opening Day he called a couple of players by the wrong name and called them Michael. After a few weeks, the Dodgers were going to Colorado and it was all radio, so he wasn't going, but Ross Porter got laryngitis or something and Vin had to go. One night, he was just a mess.

The next night, it all came together. He came on and started talking about Denver as the Dodgers were hitting, weaving the action in as he recited lyrics from "The Unsinkable Molly Brown." Piazza hit, I think, a three-run homer, Vin was right on top of it, and all was well again.

2007-08-03 10:55:36
81.   Andrew Shimmin
77- As a D'backs fan, I'll be elated if the Dodgers only take one, too.
2007-08-03 10:58:45
82.   D4P
Is this D'backs thing new? If not, why haven't I heard of it before? If so, what's the scoop?
2007-08-03 10:59:43
83.   Andrew Shimmin
82- Yeah. Truthfully, I'm not sure where I'm going with it. But, where ever it is, I'm pretty sure it'll be a poignant commentary on the duality of man.
2007-08-03 11:00:23
84.   blue22
I'm pretty stoked to see Justin Upton.
2007-08-03 11:01:51
85.   Greg Brock
Has everybody seen this article about Steinbrenner? I've heard rumors, but...

2007-08-03 11:02:07
86.   D4P
Do the 'backs have prettier numbers...?
2007-08-03 11:04:53
87.   Eric Enders
Usually when an article is written about an important game, the quality of the writing falls short of the quality of the game. This was one of those rare opposite situations, where the game itself doesn't measure up to the article written about it. Great work, Jon.
2007-08-03 11:05:04
88.   old dodger fan
Today's Wall St Journal has an article on a pitching stat called BABE (bases per batter). It is sort of like a slugging average for pitchers. You calculate "Grand Total Bases" which is 1 base for a single, 2 for a double, etc. and add in walks and HBP's. Divide the result by the number of batters faced and you get BABE.

The best BABE (pardon the pun) is Chris Young (.330) followed by Peavy, Hudson, Penny and Haren.

David Wells (.526) is 94th out of 100 pitchers with 100 or more innings. Zito is 71st and Dontrelle Willis (.508) is 89th.

It was the most interesting article in the WSJ today.

2007-08-03 11:12:09
89.   KG16
85 - I heard that the YES Network is up for sale yesterday, but my understanding from the reports was that it was because the other investors wanted to cash out. As far as Steinbrenner's health, I hope he recovers from whatever it is that ails him. As for los Yanquis, well, as much as I don't like them, I like the idea of them - not many other franchises could conceivably claim a dynasty that lasted 75 years (one of my favorite commercials was a Nike one featuring the Yankees in 2000, it said "25 World Championships, we'll try harder next century").
2007-08-03 11:14:08
90.   Robert Daeley
88 Isn't that just another Opponents' OPS?


(I'm cracking myself up.)

2007-08-03 11:14:43
91.   trainwreck
UCLA is ranked 17th in the first coaches' poll of the season. I know Brock is excited (or not).
2007-08-03 11:16:01
92.   Wilbert Robinson
89 Considered yourselves extraordinarily lucky that none of you have to be subjected to the YES network. It is worse than famine, disease or the home shopping network
2007-08-03 11:17:43
93.   D4P
I don't think it's exactly the same as Opponent's OPS. The BABE stat looks like it's a single fraction, rather than two fractions (which happen to have different denominators, but are nevertheless) added together, such as is the case with OPS stats.
2007-08-03 11:18:50
94.   Eric Enders
92 Wilbert's just upset because he missed the last rerun of "Yankeeography: Scott Brosius."
2007-08-03 11:18:55
95.   Marty
And fall, hold your knee and writhe around whenever anyone gets within five feet of you.
2007-08-03 11:19:50
96.   Marty
maybe I should hit refresh before chiming in on a joke twenty comments old.
2007-08-03 11:21:17
97.   Greg Brock
96 That's the best laugh I'll have all day.
2007-08-03 11:21:32
98.   Penarol1916
89. The reports I saw indicated that it might be so that the heirs of Steinbrenner have sufficient liquidity to pay the estate tax on the Yankees and any other properties.
2007-08-03 11:24:58
99.   Hallux Valgus
74 Worse than no offsides are teams whose entire defensive strategy consists of trying to get the offsides call. I forget which team it was during the World Cup, but they pushed their defenders up to midfield, would try to get the call, and then would either get it or sprint back toward goal and kick the ball out of bounds. Needless to say, they weren't very good. It was the most boring thing I've ever seen. It's like the neutral zone trap of soccer.

On another soccer note, ManU has picked up a 9 year old Australian based on a youtube video.

2007-08-03 11:27:50
100.   Greg Brock
99 When I coached, I used the offsides trap a lot. It's very effective if you have fast defenders and a good keeper, and if you play attacking soccer.

I'm part of the problem.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-08-03 11:28:17
101.   trainwreck
I heard about that. That can only lead to bad things.
2007-08-03 11:30:32
102.   Hallux Valgus
100 As a defender, I absolutely hated it. I switched club teams because of it. I felt like a chess piece and all I wanted to do was slide tackle.
2007-08-03 11:33:23
103.   SoSG Orel
Very evocative SI column, Jon. I wonder if Vin himself has read it.
2007-08-03 11:35:04
104.   jasonungar07
I loved the offsides trap. It meant I was gonna score that day, it was just a matter of time.
2007-08-03 11:37:18
105.   SG6
93 - From the article: BABE uses the same kind of logic that our overall batting statistic, BOP (bases over plate appearances), uses to pick the most productive players at the plate.

The article is available free:
(I didn't tiny url, as it seems some may want to know where they're clicking)

2007-08-03 11:37:36
106.   Hallux Valgus
104 exactly

102 That said, the "Arsenal offsides trap" scene from The Full Monty cracks me up every time.

2007-08-03 11:38:17
107.   Greg Brock
102 104 Only if a team uses it all the time, which is dumb. It's a gimmick defense but quite useful when opposing teams are too aggressive.
2007-08-03 11:44:42
108.   jasonungar07
106 It allows for space, once your behind the defense its over.

I think to win at soccer it's about creating 2 vs 1's all over the field. The trap creates one for you.

2007-08-03 11:46:46
109.   WillieD
Vin was really in fine form last night. From his opening words on through, it was quite a performance... I found myself a little conflicted, however. When one's in the mood to listen to music, and yet, you've got the Dodger game and Vin Scully there too, what do you do? Remember when cable was about all there was, way before Extra Innings? All those Braves games. I got into the habit of nearly always muting the sound, and providing my own musical entertainment, while watching the baseball games. I still do that sometimes, and if it isn't Vin, you usually don't miss much... Anyway, as a compromise, I put on both Vin and music. It was kind of neat. A little hard to follow what he was saying at times, but sure was great hearing that voice.
2007-08-03 11:49:13
110.   Bluebleeder87
so we basically lost yesterday because of Tomkos bad 1st inning? I think not our offense really stunk it up bad yesterday, how many times did we have the bases loaded? ugh! hopefully the Dodger pick it up against Zona.
2007-08-03 11:56:47
111.   Kevin Lewis
110) I would have to contend that our offense was responsible for the loss, not Tomko.
2007-08-03 11:57:10
112.   Kevin Lewis
Wait, I think I just agreed with you.
2007-08-03 11:59:48
113.   Penarol1916
108. To win at soccer you have to knock the stuffing out of your opponent and spit on them more, and a fight afterwards is always good. Oh wait, that's just my country.
2007-08-03 12:00:39
114.   Kevin Lewis
Did anyone see this poll on the Dodgers website today?

Dodgers management should:
Trade top young players to win now

Retain top young players to build for the future

2007-08-03 12:01:14
115.   Bluebleeder87
the pitching match ups against the D-Backs favor us to take the series so i'm pretty optomistic about that.
2007-08-03 12:03:37
116.   regfairfield
114 How about retain young players to win now?
2007-08-03 12:05:09
117.   Linkmeister
109 When the only baseball I could see was the Braves games, I'd turn on TBS and mute the sound too. I wouldn't bother with any other audio, though; I'd just read a book.

It is going to be odd when TBS no longer broadcasts those games; there will be a large hole where live baseball broadcasts used to be out here.

2007-08-03 12:07:42
118.   D4P
How about retain young players to win now?

2007-08-03 12:08:22
119.   TellMeTheScoreRickMonday
JW, one of your best articles. Great job.

I was listening to Vin at home. Was I hallucinating, or didn't he also say (in reference to the Bonds homer-less homestand), "Not here, not now, not ever"? I could have sworn he had said that (I posted that on SoSG's gmethread) but I wasn't sure if I heard that correctly.

If he did say that about Bonds, it was a rare look at Vin finally saying what he really wanted to say about the whole ordeal. But I may have been hallucinating. Anyone help?

2007-08-03 12:08:54
120.   Hallux Valgus
"Tigers infielder Neifi Perez was suspended for 80 games Friday after testing positive for a third time for a banned stimulant."
2007-08-03 12:10:10
121.   Eric Enders
So, who wants some free Dodger tickets?

Having won three tickets to the Monday, August 13 game in today's Griddle contest, but living 1,000 miles aways from Dodger Stadium, I thought I'd give them to a DTer who can actually go to the game.

Dodgers vs. Astros, Monday, August 13. First e-mail gets 'em.
enders ((at))

2007-08-03 12:10:26
122.   Greg Brock
119 The replay is on Prime Ticket right now.
2007-08-03 12:11:21
123.   Jon Weisman
119 - Yes, he said that, although I think it's more open to interpretation than you suggest as far as how much judgment he was laying on Bonds.

Perhaps combined with the graphite shaft remark, though ...

2007-08-03 12:11:52
124.   Greg Brock
119 Sorry. Meant to say that I'll see if I can hear it when Bonds gets pulled. I'm assuming that's when he would have said it.
2007-08-03 12:14:55
125.   Eric Enders
I took it to be a statement of fact, rather than Vin poking Barry with a stick. He was just noting that it's now impossible for the record to be broken at Dodger Stadium.
2007-08-03 12:15:03
126.   Blaine
114 Looks like most fans don't want to trade the kids away. Nate has been doing a lot of voting, along with Plashke.
2007-08-03 12:18:47
127.   popup
Thanks Jon. It is an honor for me to think that I had a small role in that magnificent tribute to Vin.

I have listened to that broadcast many times. Vin called Sandy's perfect game back in 1965, but I think his performance in that 1969 Mets/Dodgers game was a perfect game by a broadcaster. His ability thoughout that broadcast to weave a story while giving absolutely precise descriptions of what was taking place on the field were dazzling. Your ability to capture Vin's artistry is every bit as impressive. Again, thank you.

Stan from Tacoma

2007-08-03 12:20:42
128.   underdog
Darn, I was so busy working I almost missed all the good goalkeeping advice. I've played it before not too long ago (and before that, as a kid) but I'd rather just stick to back/defense. The problem is this is an 8x8 league (half a field, still pretty big, with full size goals) with no offsides! So it can be really tough on the keeper. (And yet, for some reason, our team has trouble scoring.)

I think 68 sums it up:
"If the ball gets to the keeper, ten other guys have failed."
Goals are never the keeper's fault. Blame everybody else!

Indeed. Though, there shouldn't be so many shots on goal, but again, with no offsides, and a smaller field, it's not easy to defend. It is pretty fun, though, exciting at times, even. Oh, and it's co-ed. So it's got that going for it.

Sorry to hijack this thread. Back to baseball... Radnich was talking on KNBR this morning about, when Bonds hits the record breaker, if it's at home they'll stop the game to let the players celebrate but he thinks even if Selig is there, they wouldn't have him be a part of that moment. They might do something official, separately, later, like, before the next game. Interesting. I mean, it would be interesting, if I cared.

2007-08-03 12:28:53
129.   SoSG Orel
119 I heard that too, but I think Vin was just summing up the Dodgers' attitude.
2007-08-03 12:28:55
130.   WillieD
125 I took it to be a statement of fact, rather than Vin poking Barry with a stick. He was just noting that it's now impossible for the record to be broken at Dodger Stadium.

I keep thinking to myself, "what if somehow Bonds never hits another HR?" That would be cool.

2007-08-03 12:29:03
131.   Wilbert Robinson
at has anybody ever perused the baseball's best library? They have some classic vin games and also Red Barber calling the 52 world series with Mel Allen. Its interesting to listen to Red Barber after listening to Vin for all these years.
2007-08-03 12:34:12
132.   Im So Blue
119,125 unless Barry goes homerless for the next 46 games...
2007-08-03 12:38:00
133.   Daniel Zappala
Jon -- only thing I can say is "thank you". You made my day.
2007-08-03 12:39:08
134.   Jon Weisman
130 - Well, I don't know about never, but my reaction to the "Not ever" remark by Vin is that Bonds could easily, as much as any ballplayer, suffer a knee injury that would knock him out 6-8 weeks (or however much time). Meaning that he could come back Sept. 28-30, trying to hit #756 while the Dodgers fight for a playoff spot on the final weekend of the season.
2007-08-03 12:47:53
135.   Vishal
[114] seriously, i call false dichotomy.
2007-08-03 12:50:02
136.   bigcpa

The Dodgers talked deep into the night at the trade deadline about acquiring Jon Garland from the White Sox but, in the end, GM Ned Colletti decided the price was too high. He didn't want to give up young talent like outfielder Matt Kemp, pitcher Chad Billingsley or pitcher Jonathan Broxton.

Raise your hand if you think Garland is better than DJ Houlton.

2007-08-03 12:51:50
137.   Bob Timmermann
This proud alum of Kennedy High would not have wanted to see Garland play for the Dodgers in place of Kemp, Billingsley, or Broxton.

Especially after watching Garland yesterday.

2007-08-03 12:54:54
138.   trainwreck
I would have traded Scott Proctor for Garland.
2007-08-03 13:03:41
139.   bigcpa
I know it is unfair to criticize non-deals, but to even enter discussions for Jon Garland says a lot about Ned. 3.9 K/9 are you kidding?? I get it- he prefers hitters that rarely strikeout and pitchers that don't strike guys out.
2007-08-03 13:04:34
140.   Telemachos
FYI, ToyCannon has a very sweet post about Roberto Hernandez over at True Blue LA. We all get caught up in on-field performance, but getting a glimpse of the ballplayer as a person is cool (even if it's just from the stands).

Nice job, TC!

2007-08-03 13:06:23
141.   underdog
I guess, but he didn't make the trade and it's clear the team needs another starting pitcher. Whether Garland would be better than Houlton is hard to judge since the latter hasn't really started very much; Garland might be a bit better but you're right, it wouldn't have been worth it. But to at least discuss it, given that we have Hendrickson and Tomko starting for us, doesn't seem like an unpardonable offense. But on that subject, yeah, when does Houlton get a shot over Tomko?

Maybe when Andy LaRoche gets called up.

2007-08-03 13:08:30
142.   Jon Weisman
140 - I was gonna call that out tonight. Thanks for reminding me.
2007-08-03 13:10:09
143.   bhsportsguy
139 Again, does anyone question the need for starting pitching, I know people think that Ned should turn off the phone but his job is to improve the team and we need better starting pitching than what has been out there for the last month or so.

Unfortunately, the available pitching product did not meet what are prospects/young players are worth so he couldn't put a deal together.

The Oswalts/Santanas/Willis deals were not being offered this time. But again just because a story is out there, you have to remember who is the probable source. I would guess its the White Sox and they want to spin that they will not just dump their World Series heroes for what is perceived to be second tier prospects. If its the Dodgers, they want to say they asked for Chad or Matt or Andy. That is just part of the game.

2007-08-03 13:10:31
144.   D4P
Garland gave up the 3-run jack to Betemit yesterday.


2007-08-03 13:14:11
145.   Paul B
Jon, allow me to add to the chorus: simply a tremendous article. Off the top of my head I'd say it's your best work at SI, which is saying something. So, thanks for that.
2007-08-03 13:26:42
146.   bigcpa
144 This line from July 6th is impressive:
3ip, 11H, 12R, 11ER, 0K, 3BB. The Sox scored 14 and got beat.
2007-08-03 13:29:14
147.   Dodgers49
Meloan's one-inning appearence last night:

Las Vegas
Juarez (L, 4-6) 5.0 5 3 3 3 3 2 5.64
Fussell 2.0 1 0 0 0 1 0 4.70
Meloan 1.0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1.23

2007-08-03 13:29:59
148.   Penarol1916
My question is why, if the Dodgers are known to be looking for starting pitching, would Kenny Williams even try to pry away one of the Dodgers starting pitchers?
2007-08-03 13:33:21
149.   underdog
148 Good question. Partially because Kenny Williams is renowned for asking for the farm + the moon + your first born child, and thus often gets turned down.
2007-08-03 13:35:05
150.   Jon Weisman
Marlon Anderson is playing center field and batting fifth for the Mets, who are tied 2-2 with the Cubs in the seventh.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-08-03 13:38:11
151.   Jon Weisman
Thanks to everyone for their good wishes. I really owe Stan and Vin (and Guillermo, Willie and, um, Barry) a debt.
2007-08-03 13:40:02
152.   jasonungar07
Because one is a veteran that you know will be just above avg and ours is a kid who is suppossed to be good but maybe he wont be so why trust him in a pennant race?
2007-08-03 13:50:56
153.   Hallux Valgus
148 I think it's just a sign of Williams not panicking. In his mind, he obviously had an equation where Garland = XYZ from different teams, and he wasn't going to accept XYQ just to see a trade go down. It's not hard to look at the Betemit deal in the opposite light. Ned decided that Betemit = X, but was only offered Q, so he said, "I need to make a move, so I guess I'll take Q."
I think Williams might be overvaluing his hand, but that's his prerogative. He did the same thing last year before trading McCarthy.

Tangentially related, I keep reading these "winners and losers" columns, and a lot of them seem to equate not trading someone with losing. I read that the Astros were deadline losers because they were in last place and didn't trade Lidge. Well, who knows what was offered for Lidge? Not making a deal doesn't necessarily make it a bad deal.

2007-08-03 13:54:19
154.   bryanf
140 Great post ToyCannon! I enjoyed it.

Is there really even a chance that Proctor will get a shot at the rotation? Hasn't he been considered "overused?"

2007-08-03 13:54:59
155.   trainwreck
That's his perogatiiiiive.

Anyone else read how Bobby Brown thinks Osama Bin Laden is out to get him and wants Whitney Houston?

2007-08-03 14:13:59
156.   TellMeTheScoreRickMonday
123 Did Vin mention where he wanted to stick said graphite shaft?

129 So you reply here but not on the GT?

2007-08-03 14:23:09
157.   Hythloday
153 - I posted on this earlier, but I disagree with that basic characterization. It is only correct if Betemit's X is a range of acceptable values. Ned didn't accept something he didn't want, IMO, he accepted something that fell within the range of what he wanted and the value that he assigned to Betemit was likely lower than perhaps you or I because of the presence of a resurgent Garciaparra and a surging LaRoche. Increased supply lowered Betemit's value and increased demand raised Proctor's. I'm not keen on the trade, but it's highly defensible.
2007-08-03 14:32:40
158.   MC Safety
121- i sent you an e mail.
2007-08-03 14:34:01
159.   bigcpa
157 I agree with what you're saying but would replace "lowered Betemit's value" with "lowered Ned's asking price for Betemit."
2007-08-03 14:35:31
160.   Dodgers49
Great story, Jon. I remember listening to that game. I was a Willie Davis fan at the time. Unfortunately, whenever Willie's name is mentioned it also brings back a sad period for me. And that involves the way Willie's career ended. Buzzy Bavasi signed him to play for the California Angels but the rumor going around at the time was that a number of people, of which one was supposed to be the manager (whom I believe was Jim Fregosi) didn't want him on the team. So there was sort of a Depo/Tracy/Choi situation. Was this really true? I don't have a reliable source.

As the story goes, when Willie was playing for a team a few years earlier (I believe it was the Texas Rangers) he had been hit by a pitch. The pitcher on his team did not retaliate. In response Willie sat down in center field the next inning. Many of his teammates sided with the pitcher. As a result Willie was not very popular is some circles.

An any rate, while Willie sometimes performed well when given a chance the manager often wouldn't play him. He ended up hitting about .250. Because of the supposed Tracy/Choi situation, I've just always felt he could have gone out on a higher note under different circumstances.

2007-08-03 14:36:20
161.   Hythloday
159 I agree, that's probably more accurate.
2007-08-03 14:38:30
162.   Hallux Valgus
157 I'm certainly not saying that the trade was indefensible. To be honest, I barely care one way or the other about the trade. I'm saying that the difference between the 2 is the same range of which you speak. From my perspective, Williams doesn't assign a range. He decides what he wants to get out of a player and then either does or does not get it. Supply/ demand circumstantial fluctuation doesn't appear to matter.

If Ned felt the needed a reliever and assigned Proctor as the value, then so be it (although I highly doubt it, based on the amount of time the deal was apparently on the table), and I'll question his talent evaluation and not the trade itself; but if Ned assigned a value of, say, Gagne or equivalent, and then lowered his value based on the issue of supply/ demand, then I think that is foolish, and I'll stand on the side with people who believe that he shouldn't have made the trade. As it is, I believe the truth is somewhere in between and thus, not really enough for me to fret over.

Either way, I think Williams is a better GM, or at least one about whom I wouldn't worry as much.

2007-08-03 14:39:09
163.   Kyle S
Jon, that was awesome.
2007-08-03 14:40:09
164.   jasonungar07
I recall Ned saying two things in an interview in Mid July..

1. Wilson is our biggest dissapointment this year.

2. When people call about our players, the one asked about most is Wilson.

2007-08-03 14:52:38
165.   Bluebleeder87
man, I just saw the X-Games Jake Brown fall 50 feet! one word WOWZERS!

Ps he's doing fine witch is great to here, but wow.

2007-08-03 14:54:16
166.   bigcpa
164 Right- with the calls coming in from teams that know how to put runs on the board.
2007-08-03 15:02:44
167.   jasonungar07
166 If Adam Dunn was a Dodger he would be benched, platooned and then traded.
2007-08-03 15:04:08
168.   bigcpa
167 And mocked by Tony Jackson.
2007-08-03 15:04:23
169.   regfairfield
153 I would call Houston losers for effectively trading Morgan Ensberg and Dan Wheeler for Ty Wiggington, so it works out in the end.
2007-08-03 15:08:53
170.   MC Safety
2007-08-03 15:10:54
171.   bigcpa
Saenz cleanup?! Someone send Grady a stat sheet pronto.
2007-08-03 15:11:00
172.   Dark Horse
162-Williams is also GM for a team that's not presently in contention, so it makes his decisions in this respect a little simpler.

167-Oh, I doubt it. The logjams created by Garciaparra and Gonzo on this team are significant, but short term, and clearly had to do with uncertainty about Kemp and LaRoche's readiness, an uncertainty that made a certain amount of sense at the end of last season. The assumption that our young players are being gratuitiously platooned is incorrect.

2007-08-03 15:13:48
173.   silverwidow

Furcal, SS
Pierre, CF
Martin, C
Saenz, 1B
Nomar, 3B
Kemp, RF
Young, LF
Martinez, 2B
Billingsley, P

This Saenz stuff is a joke.

2007-08-03 15:15:19
174.   mankatododger
DBacks just traded for Cirillo from the Twins. No idea for what yet.
2007-08-03 15:15:37
175.   Greg Brock
Young in left, Saenz (!?) batting cleanup, no Gonzo, still no Kent.

Um, okay.

2007-08-03 15:16:29
176.   bluegold
170. Saenz??!! Wow...maybe Colletti is showcasing him for a trade.
2007-08-03 15:16:38
177.   underdog
Wow, that line-up is bizarro. Though the biggest problem right now is that Kent continues to be unable to start, which really hurts the lineup. But Saenz in the clean-up spot. I dunno what to think, either Grady really has lost his mind or he's kind of giving Saenz a last chance to show he can still hit. I don't know how many last chances these guys - Tomko, Saenz - should be getting, but I'm hoping it's that and not something else. I don't mind seeing Young get a shot at starting though. Why not give him a chance. But I hope Bills brings his "A" game tonight.
2007-08-03 15:16:57
178.   Hythloday
174 - A jar of salsa to be named later makes the most sense to me.
2007-08-03 15:17:08
179.   underdog
Cirillo's still playing? Huh.
2007-08-03 15:17:22
180.   King of the Hobos
171 Well, without Loney, Kent, or Gonzo, his options were limited, and Saenz can still hit lefties fairly well. I'm sure most people here would want Kemp there, but I guess he's too young or something. Let's just hope it works out for the best.
2007-08-03 15:17:49
181.   Hallux Valgus
seriously, Saenz? Let me guess Grady's thinking:
Davis= lefty
(dusts off old scout sheet) Saenz hit lefty
Saenz hit Davis!
2007-08-03 15:19:19
182.   Wilbert Robinson
Maybe Saenz' last hurrah before being DFA'd and Laroche getting the call up?
2007-08-03 15:19:36
183.   MC Safety
is delwyn stronger batting from the right side? the weight of the world, or furcal and pierre, is on saenz' back.
2007-08-03 15:19:44
184.   bigcpa
Cirillo would have been expendable if they would have just traded us a starter for Betemit! Maybe Tony Batista is making a comeback for them.
2007-08-03 15:20:14
185.   Jon Weisman
I won't deny that Saenz has been looking very little like a cleanup hitter lately. But as far as a stat sheet goes, this slump of his only encompasses 23 plate appearances. (He's 1 for 20 with a walk and two sacrifice flies.) I don't know that that's a conclusive sample size.

That's since June 23. Prior to June 23, his OPS was .811 this season.

2007-08-03 15:21:17
186.   ToyCannon
Sweet a Upton and D Young debut as starting players. One is not the same as the other.

140 & [154}

I see no reason why Proctor can't be considered for the rotation other then fear of doing something unconventional. I don't think I've ever seen a relief pitcher get ready as fast as he did. Not that it did him any good because then the inning took forever but it was like 4 throws and then bang bang bang.

2007-08-03 15:21:21
187.   Wilbert Robinson
Here's an article regarding Laroche's feelings about trade rumors with a very odd suggestion that Abreu is faking his injury because he's pouting about being sent down.

2007-08-03 15:21:29
188.   bigcpa
182 Last night was enough of a hurrah for me. We're supposed to be in a pennant race here.
2007-08-03 15:22:01
189.   Jon Weisman
It took me 10 seconds to find a worse slump by our regular cleanup hitter. Jeff Kent earlier this season went 1 for 27 with no walks or sacrifice flies.
2007-08-03 15:22:04
190.   Vishal
[165] bluebleeder's clever use of homophones continues to amaze me :)
2007-08-03 15:22:13
191.   Bluebleeder87
Young in Left Field intrigues me, you guys don't think he's got a bit of a long swing? of course i'm judging that on only one at bat I saw witch was yesterday.
2007-08-03 15:22:38
192.   still bevens
I think the flip side of Saenz starting today is Loney getting some bench time to 'clear his head' due to his performance of last night.
2007-08-03 15:24:55
193.   Vishal
[192] then there's another school of thought which says that loney doesn't want to clear his head or perhaps even dwell last night's failure that has apparently gotten him benched, and maybe would be better served by just getting back on the horse.
2007-08-03 15:25:40
194.   King of the Hobos
183 OPS vs lefties for Delwyn:
2005: .617 (in 52 ABs for Vegas), .899 (in 116 ABs for Jacksonville)
2006: .560 (in 126 ABs)
2007: 1.095 (in 126 ABs)

He's not exactly Mr. Consistency vs lefties.

2007-08-03 15:25:43
195.   Jon Weisman
193 - That's my alma mater.
2007-08-03 15:25:59
196.   Greg Brock
ESPN sure does like graphics.

Excuse me if this is misspelled...I can't see anymore.

2007-08-03 15:26:03
197.   Hallux Valgus
191 That was the first thing I thought when I saw him swing last night, but he kept fighting off pitches.
2007-08-03 15:26:06
198.   D4P
Saenz batting cleanup is a bad idea.

However, bad ideas in baseball seem to have a tendency to work well initially, before revealing their true colors.

2007-08-03 15:27:30
199.   Vishal
[195] ...and i thought we went to rival schools :)
2007-08-03 15:28:31
200.   SoSG Orel
156 Let's face it, this is where all the cool kids are at.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-08-03 15:28:59
201.   ToyCannon
This year it made no difference he killed from either side of the plate but in 2006 he had about a 300 point OPS difference with his right side being dominant. In 2005 it was very strange, at Vegas(AAA) he still had a huge split with the advantage being from the right side but in Jacksonville(AA) he was better from the left side but he had a BABIP of 48% which propelled that figure. I'd say he's a better hitter from the right side.
2007-08-03 15:30:08
202.   Jon Weisman
199 - Post-graduate degree?
2007-08-03 15:30:54
203.   MC Safety
191- it may be little long but you can sure tell he swings it faster than betemit.
2007-08-03 15:32:33
204.   Wilbert Robinson
I guess it doesn't matter who's batting where tonight. Bills had a terrible outing last which means this time he'll probably strike out 18 on his way to a perfect game.
2007-08-03 15:33:35
205.   underdog
I think I'm going with the Last Hurrah Theory, by gum.

Saenz has 21 strikeouts in 81 at bats. That sounds bad, but is it? He's definitely looked bad in just about every at bat I've seen over the past couple of months, but as we know, how one looks at bat some of the time shouldn't be the only thing you judge someone by. But still, he's looked like his bat speed is slower than last year, can't even catch up with his bread and butter fastballs.

2007-08-03 15:33:40
206.   MC Safety
194- awesome thanks. good luck to delwyn tonight . im rootin for him big time.
2007-08-03 15:34:57
207.   underdog
Are the School of Thought and the School of Hard Knocks in the same division? That's always a good rivalry.
2007-08-03 15:35:40
208.   MC Safety
201- thanks for the reply as well...
2007-08-03 15:37:00
209.   Greg Brock
181 Sums it up nicely, I think.

I like Olmedo, and he's done a great job up until this whatever it is. If he's not going anywhere, he can at least hit once in a while to keep his weight down. We don't need a heart attack in the dugout by the Tomato.

2007-08-03 15:40:44
210.   Bluebleeder87

A couple of more at-bats pitch locations & how he reacts to pitches inside & out will give us a better/bigger picture.

2007-08-03 15:47:03
211.   SG6
Maybe the thinking is that Seanz will no doubt see fastballs in the 4-slot. Whatever your opinion of the slumping Seanz, we could sure use the 2006 version in Aug and Sept (and hopefully Oct).

Root for the Tomato! (Kemp has 2 hits in his last 20 ABs with 8 Ks and 1 BB)

2007-08-03 15:51:47
212.   trainwreck
Wow, that is a bad lineup.
2007-08-03 15:53:54
213.   still bevens
Danys Baez tapped as Orioles interim closer while Chris Ray is out. Good luck with that, Baltimore.
2007-08-03 15:56:29
214.   mankatododger
The St. Paul paper now says Cirillo was waived by the Twins and claimed by the DBacks.
2007-08-03 15:58:22
215.   Hythloday
214 - Well I guess they can keep their salsa then.
2007-08-03 15:58:43
216.   Bob Timmermann
Since it's August, that's the only way you can do the trade.
2007-08-03 16:00:16
217.   Reiichi
Seeing that lineup makes me think back to yesterday and that smile on Brett Tomko's face in the first. I'm sure Grady feels the same way.
2007-08-03 16:02:21
218.   mankatododger
216 They are saying no trade, just a straight dump.
2007-08-03 16:02:58
219.   Humma Kavula
OK, I'm no Score Bard, but here's one for you guys...

Baseball commissioner Bud Selig, on giving up on his efforts to sit in the stands and watch Barry Bonds' home run chase: "I don't think anyone can say I haven't made a Herculean effort."

The Nimean Lion was tame.
The Hydra? Ha, such a sweet dame.
But where's Homer's ode --
Oh the effort I showed! --
Eating peanuts and watching the game!

2007-08-03 16:04:07
220.   Hallux Valgus
218 Then they're assuming no one with a worse record wants him.
2007-08-03 16:05:12
221.   underdog
218 That's a good way of putting it.

Is there anyone out there the Dodgers could/should claim to help them at all with depth? The Padres and DBacks are doing it, why can't we?

2007-08-03 16:10:04
222.   Greg Brock
219 Very nice!
2007-08-03 16:12:48
223.   Hallux Valgus
221 from

Alas, Kansas City's Reggie Sanders remains on the disabled list. Otherwise, as one AL scout said this week of the well-traveled outfielder, "Somebody's gotta go get Reggie Sanders, right? Whoever gets him gets in the playoffs."

so obviously we should claim Reggie Sanders, since scouts are always right about everything.

2007-08-03 16:13:15
224.   Jon Weisman
221 - Bradleee and Ensbergee
Live together in perfect harmony
Side by side in my clubhouse
Waivers Savers
Why don't we?

(Lame, I know.)

2007-08-03 16:13:31
225.   regfairfield
221 I wouldn't mind Russell Branyan.
2007-08-03 16:14:28
226.   Jon Weisman
I was also tempted to parody

If happy little bluebirds fly Beyond the rainbow Why, oh why can't I?


Birds do it, bees do it Even educated fleas do it Let's do it, let's fall in love.

2007-08-03 16:16:30
227.   D4P
You should start a crude-poetry themed blog...
2007-08-03 16:16:56
228.   Humma Kavula

Towers in SD does it
From great heights, I know,
Why ask if Cashman does it?
A regular murderer's row!

2007-08-03 16:17:32
229.   Humma Kavula
219 Last post there was more than a year ago. Got distracted.
2007-08-03 16:17:53
230.   Humma Kavula
229 is in response to 227.
2007-08-03 16:21:55
231.   Humma Kavula
227 With a rare chance to post for the cycle, I can't pass it up!

You should start a crude-poetry themed blog...

I appreciate the hyphen. You're too kind. I would have said "crude, poetry-themed."

2007-08-03 16:24:55
232.   D4P
I understand. Outs attract attention, especially when they come in droves.
2007-08-03 16:45:28
233.   Bluebleeder87
I won't deny that Saenz has been looking very little like a cleanup hitter lately. But as far as a stat sheet goes, this slump of his only encompasses 23 plate appearances. (He's 1 for 20 with a walk and two sacrifice flies.) I don't know that that's a conclusive sample size.

That's since June 23. Prior to June 23, his OPS was .811 this season.

I'm hoping he has a good game today managers have that little nitch of knowing when there players can come up big so i'm hopping he has a good game, he's had some very important hits & dingers for us so i'm hopping for the best.

2007-08-03 16:46:18
234.   underdog
So here's a question asked yesterday - whither Joe Mays? Wouldn't he "say hey" (sorry) to come back to the Dodgers, and wouldn't he be better than Tomko?

Of course, right now another hitter for the bench is what we're talking about here, but I think LaRoche could replace Saenz. If Young doesn't work out, then they could find another veteran somewhere. Btw, if Sanders wasn't hurt, he really wouldn't be a bad guy to add to the bench.

2007-08-03 16:46:55
235.   Bluebleeder87
by the way that bolded black was by Jon.
2007-08-03 16:49:18
236.   Bluebleeder87

I see your logic there underdog but I'd prefer to see La Roche in there everyday instead of wasting away in the bench

2007-08-03 16:52:56
237.   The Mootz
Here's hoping Tomato has a better day than Elton Brand.

L.A. Times is reporting Elton Brand is out for the year with a ruptured Achilles.

It's still a breaking story.

2007-08-03 17:00:46
238.   King of the Hobos
The DBacks just picked up BH Kim to go along with Cirillo. Both appear to be straight up claims.
2007-08-03 17:02:13
239.   Branch Rickey
Can somebody help me out and tell me exactly when baseball officially banned steroids?
2007-08-03 17:03:14
240.   underdog
236 Me, too, blue. My caveat would be that I'd expect if they did call him up that he'd start at least part of the time. They probably feel the same way as you.

The Dodgers should make a claim on Kim and Cirillo just to annoy the DBacks.

2007-08-03 17:03:31
241.   Humma Kavula
238 I know Kim is not what he once was, but I have to believe that a team would rather have him than, say, Roberto Hernandez.
2007-08-03 17:03:54
242.   ToyCannon
Figures, two days after I renewed my tickets. I guess I won't have to worry about just being mediocre anymore.
2007-08-03 17:04:12
243.   Branch Rickey
Whoops. Found it on my own

Thanks anyway!

2007-08-03 17:04:33
244.   Jon Weisman
Is Kim not on a par with Proctor, or close to it?
2007-08-03 17:05:24
245.   skybluesky
Another longtime lurker here, just had to break my silence to add to the chorus of hosannas for Jon's wonderful piece on Vin. Really great stuff, and it makes me wonder - couldn't some enterprising person with access to the proper materials put together an audio (or print) collection of Vin's great moments through the years? The man is a poet and he deserves a greatest hits collection.
Oh yeah - go Dodgers!
2007-08-03 17:06:46
246.   underdog
244 Well, he can start, too. Seriously, don't the Dodgers rank ahead of the Dbacks in waiver claims since they're behind them in the standings? Well, not that I really want Cirillo mind you.
2007-08-03 17:08:18
247.   Humma Kavula
I know others lay claim to the title, but I like to think that Vin Scully is the poet laureate of Los Angeles.
2007-08-03 17:13:34
248.   NorCal-Dodger
Jon, wonderful article about Vin Scully in SI! We are blessed to have the best play-by-play announcer to grace our televisions and radios for all these years, and hopefully for many more years to come!

There should be a street entrance into Dodger Stadium that should be renamed to "Vin Scully Way"...How about re-naming Stadium Way perpindicular to Sunset Blvd, in Vin's honor?

2007-08-03 17:18:36
249.   Humma Kavula
248 This might be taking a good idea too far, but why not rename Victory Blvd -- yes, the whole thing -- "Scully Blvd?"

He is a giant in our city.

If we can have streets named after our other giants, like Chandler and Mulholland, why not him?

And it would be a nice symbol, in my opinion, if Victory was now called Scully.

But I realize I'm taking a good idea too far.

2007-08-03 17:18:37
250.   Jim Hitchcock
Thanks, Jon, for the wonderful story on Vinny.

I'm still waiting after 5 days of MLB EI for them to use the L.A. broadcast. They will, right?

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-08-03 17:22:54
251.   Bob Timmermann
Victory Boulevard is a really long street with a lot of businesses on it.

Good luck trying to get it renamed.

And changing all the road signs.

And telling Randy Newman that his song is obsolete.

2007-08-03 17:25:16
252.   Jon Weisman
New thread in the needle up top.
2007-08-03 17:26:24
253.   NorCal-Dodger
Wasn't that 'Ventura Blvd' used in the song?
2007-08-03 17:31:34
254.   Andrew Shimmin
Vin Scully Blvd. would scan in place of Victory Blvd.
2007-08-03 17:50:40
255.   dkminnick

"Victory Boulevard
Santa Monica Boulevard
Sixth Street!"

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