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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Dodgers Acquire Mark Sweeney
2007-08-09 16:32
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Three different blogs quote KNBR's Giants postgame show as saying that the Dodgers have acquired San Francisco pinch-hitter Mark Sweeney going to the Dodgers for a player to be named later - probably an unchoice prospsect.

Update: The Dodgers have confirmed the trade.

Sweeney is a left-handed pinch-hitter - he has more career pinch hits than Manny Mota, in fact - whose acquisition would mirror last year's pickup of Marlon Anderson (if only it goes that well).

Some have speculated this would mean the end of Olmedo Saenz in Los Angeles, but I doubt the Dodgers would cut bait on a player with three weeks until rosters expand to make room for another guy with the opposite platoon advantage. Sweeney has an .805 OPS against righties this year. More likely, the Dodgers would temporarily option Delwyn Young or a 12th pitcher to AAA.

This is the first trade between the Dodgers and Giants since Candy Maldonado for Alex Trevino in December 1985.

Update 2: Uh oh, looks like the Dodgers have gotten impatient with James Loney.

"Mark provides us with another experienced bat off the bench and from time to time he may be called on in a starting role," Dodger general manager Ned Colletti said. "He has tremendous makeup and will bring a lot to this club."

Comments (382)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-08-09 16:43:02
1.   Andrew Shimmin
I didn't think they would keep three 1Bs on the 25 man (counting Nomar), but they did. So, what's one more?
2007-08-09 16:43:44
2.   be2ween
More sticks, please.
All I knows is I acquired Charlie Steiner's AND Ned Colletti's autographs on the same ball after last Friday's loss to the D-backs. And the team has finally won one in a row again.
2007-08-09 16:44:43
3.   Wilbert Robinson
Back to Back walk for Kershaw nobody out....clean up hitter up.
2007-08-09 16:46:06
4.   underdog
I like this deal.

Can we trade them Candy Maldonado again?

2007-08-09 16:49:08
5.   Jon Weisman
4 - There's a downside. See new update.
2007-08-09 16:50:30
6.   Wilbert Robinson
kershaw get's out of another jam. 4 K's, 4 BB in 3 IP.
2007-08-09 16:51:42
7.   fanerman
Impatient with Loney? Blasphemy!
2007-08-09 16:51:43
8.   be2ween
Jesus Mary and Joseph! I don't like to see James Loney and Mark Sweeney in the same sentence...
2007-08-09 16:52:01
9.   Andrew Shimmin
If Colletti had a sense of humor, he'd have said something about arm angles.
2007-08-09 16:52:17
10.   Bob Timmermann
But know who will Barry Bonds get his amphetamines from?
2007-08-09 16:53:07
11.   Humma Kavula
8 "James Loney, and not Mark Sweeney, is the Dodgers' future at first base."
2007-08-09 16:54:09
12.   Andrew Shimmin
10- What would he need amphetamines for? He still has his magic arm brace, hasn't he?
2007-08-09 16:54:14
13.   Bob Timmermann
James Loney and Mark Sweeney walk into a bar together...
2007-08-09 16:54:26
14.   Curtis Lowe
Would Sweeney be the 3rd Catcher?
2007-08-09 16:54:27
15.   be2ween
11 Well, since you put it like that...
2007-08-09 16:55:41
16.   underdog
I wouldn't worry too much about that, myself. If Loney's going to get spelled from time to time, which he will, and that's fine, I'd rather Sweeney come in than Saenz at this point. I still expect Loney to play 5 or 6 out of 7 games. Hopefully no less than that...
2007-08-09 16:55:52
17.   Wilbert Robinson
Mark Sweeney has gone on the 15 Day DL after herniating a disc in his back while attempting to hold James Loney's jock strap.
2007-08-09 16:56:29
18.   underdog
Kershaw seems a tad Nook LaLoosh-ish so far. Nerves, I'm sure. 4BBs, 4K's. No runs thru 3ip, though.
2007-08-09 16:56:34
19.   Eric Enders
Kershaw now batting for the first time in his pro career... he grounds to second.
2007-08-09 16:57:04
20.   bhsportsguy
Sweeney has started a grand total of 10 games this year, 6 in the outfield (5 in LF) and 4 at first base.
2007-08-09 16:57:21
21.   blue22
1 - Firstbase is the new shortstop.

When was Nomar's last turn at firstbase though? I swear, that double-switch today just didn't sit right. I wonder if Nomar is no longer a "first baseman".

2007-08-09 16:58:05
22.   Bob Timmermann
14
Since it's MARK Sweeney and he's lefthanded, I'm guess he's not playing catcher.

If it were MIKE Sweeney, you'd be in business.

2007-08-09 16:58:38
23.   bhsportsguy
20 If anything, he's rested. He is also in the last year of a 2 year deal with the Giants, I'll assume the Dodgers are paying the remaining 300K or so of his salary.
2007-08-09 17:00:08
24.   Eric Enders
It does seem that while Nomar is willing to switch positions, he appears to like playing only one at a time. So when he started playing first base, he never played another game at shortstop, and now that he's playing third base he will probably not play first base at all.

It's too bad he doesn't embrace more of a utility-type role, because that's the only way we could get any benefit from having him on the team next year.

2007-08-09 17:00:08
25.   alexx
Why get rid of Marlon only to acquire Sweeney?
2007-08-09 17:00:13
26.   Gen3Blue
I don't think Loney has much to do with it, but I'm always sour on Coletti getting a former Giant, but maybe he knows something.

Just saw Jason Werth playing some credable RF for the Phillies. Good luck guy.

2007-08-09 17:01:18
27.   blue22
21 - When was Nomar's last turn at firstbase though?

July 6th was his last start at first.

2007-08-09 17:01:46
28.   bhsportsguy
Okay, the choices - at least to me are:
1. Houlton
2. Young
3. Hernandez

Houlton and Young can be optioned back to Vegas, I guess they could ask Hernandez if he would to Vegas until September 1st but I don't know if he has to go.

I am going to say choice 1, Houlton.

2007-08-09 17:02:00
29.   Eric Enders
25 It was not a matter of choosing Sweeney over Anderson, not at all. We had to get rid of Anderson because we needed Kemp and Loney to play everyday and at the time, that was the only way to make room for them on the roster. It was always a numbers game with Anderson, I don't think anybody actually WANTED to get rid of him.
2007-08-09 17:02:09
30.   regfairfield
25 Why get rid of Ricky Ledee to acquire Marlon?
2007-08-09 17:02:17
31.   blue22
24 - It's very annoying. Does he donate his gloves once he switches position? That would be very charitable.
2007-08-09 17:02:33
32.   Humma Kavula
22 In an unexpected move, the Los Angeles Dodgers today traded the letters A and R to the Sesame Street Alphabets for the letters I and E and a letter to be named later.

According to Dodgers GM Ned Colletti, the new letters will immediately take on a role in bench player, um, Mike Sweeney's first name.

2007-08-09 17:02:45
33.   blue22
30 - I'm still upset that they dumped Dave Hansen.
2007-08-09 17:04:28
34.   Wilbert Robinson
3 up 3 down for Kershaw!
2007-08-09 17:06:08
35.   Curtis Lowe
33 - I'm still upset they chose freeways over Monorails.
2007-08-09 17:08:47
36.   berkowit28
Can someone remind me (i.e. instruct me) how exactly trades work after the trade deadline?
2007-08-09 17:09:01
37.   Icaros
I like how the Suns website still has photos of LaRoche and Kemp across the top.
2007-08-09 17:09:24
38.   Woody
Still upset they chose LA over Brooklyn. Can we have the team back now that there was a tornado?
2007-08-09 17:10:40
39.   Underbruin
35 -

Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
Patty+Selma: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.
Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
Monoraaaaaail!
Homer: Mono... D'oh!

2007-08-09 17:10:55
40.   Wilbert Robinson
38 That tornado was the ghost of Walter O'Malley
2007-08-09 17:11:16
41.   Eric Enders
After July 31, the player has to clear waivers. Not clear every team, only the teams ahead of the acquiring team in the pecking order. This is where being in fourth place helps, because we are ahead of SD, AZ, and COL in the waiver order by virtue of being behind them in the standings. So they couldn't thwart us by claiming Sweeney.
2007-08-09 17:11:26
42.   FirstMohican
25 -

2007 Anderson - Sweeney
Age: 33 - 37
Avg: .237 - .247

Well, that or 29

2007-08-09 17:12:20
43.   Wilbert Robinson
41 I knew there was a reason we lost 6 in a row. Ned and Grady are amazing!
2007-08-09 17:12:31
44.   regfairfield
36 Any player that is going to be traded now must pass through waivers. When on waivers, any team my put a claim on the player (with priority going by reverse order in the standings) if they do, three things can happen.

1. The teams can work out a trade within (48 or 70, I forgot which) hours. If they do not, the player is pulled off waivers.

2. The team can pull the player off waivers, making him unavailable, if they do, he can not be placed on waivers again until the end of the season.

3. The team can straight up give the player and the remander of his contract to the claiming team.

If a player passes through waivers with no claims, he can then be traded with no restrictions until August 31st.

2007-08-09 17:13:29
45.   regfairfield
41 Ah, didn't know that little wrinkle.
2007-08-09 17:14:03
46.   bhsportsguy
44 He can still be traded after August 31st but he will no longer be eligible for post-season play.
2007-08-09 17:15:03
47.   Gen3Blue
Well Sweeney has one of the attributes of great first basemen like Olerud and Grace.
He's left handed! But actually his nos. in the early 2000's (presumably his peak) aren't that bad. Why was he never a regular player? For at least ten years he seemed to get 100-300 at bats a year
2007-08-09 17:16:25
48.   Eric Enders
Kershaw gives up a HR to the leadoff batter in the 5th, on an 0-2 pitch.
2007-08-09 17:16:40
49.   natepurcell
Kershaw gives up a homerun on an 0-2 pitch.

eh.

2007-08-09 17:16:44
50.   regfairfield
As an aside, has any ex-Giant actually worked out well for us? Schmidt and Mueller have been complete disasters so far.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-08-09 17:17:00
51.   Jon Weisman
41 - We've been throwing games to get Mark Sweeney.
2007-08-09 17:17:21
52.   Eric Enders
Jeff Kent = not bad.
2007-08-09 17:17:38
53.   Jon Weisman
50 - Jeff Kent?
2007-08-09 17:17:51
54.   underdog
39 Mono---d'oh!! I was about to post that, too. Good thing I refreshed.

I think just for fun the Dodgers should also activate Manny Mota so he and Sweeney could have a little PH competition. Oh, and I suppose Lenny Harris, too. Hey, if Julio Franco can still be on someone's roster, why not?

2007-08-09 17:17:55
55.   Jon Weisman
Man ... too slow today.
2007-08-09 17:18:00
56.   natepurcell
back to back!
2007-08-09 17:18:04
57.   Wilbert Robinson
yikes back to back homers
2007-08-09 17:18:05
58.   Eric Enders
Back-to-back jacks given up by the Minotaur.
2007-08-09 17:18:51
59.   Eric Enders
58 , meet 55 .
2007-08-09 17:18:52
60.   Jon Weisman
54 - With all due respect, I loved that episode as much as anyone, but that dialogue gets posted here about once a month. Every time someone mentions the word monorail - which itself comes up with alarming regularity.
2007-08-09 17:18:56
61.   regfairfield
50 Yeah, that was pretty obvious.
2007-08-09 17:19:00
62.   bhsportsguy
58 He sucks, we should have traded him for Octavio Dotel.
2007-08-09 17:19:49
63.   underdog
From the press release:
"The Dodgers originally selected Sweeney in the 39th round of the June 1990 First-Year Player Draft out of Maine, but he returned for his senior season and was drafted by the Angels the following year."
2007-08-09 17:20:52
64.   Wilbert Robinson
50 umm Brett Tomko duh.
2007-08-09 17:20:55
65.   natepurcell
almost back to back to back... they are just sitting on his fastball now.
2007-08-09 17:21:39
66.   underdog
60 By "refreshed" I meant "refrained." ;-) Don't make it a new rule just yet.

62 Or to the Rangers.

2007-08-09 17:21:47
67.   Wilbert Robinson
yeah his curveball stopped working it sounded like all fastballs for the most part after the 1st.
2007-08-09 17:22:40
68.   Eric Enders
Another near-HR for Carolina, so Kershaw gets the hook. His flyball-groundball ratio today leaves something to be desired.

Remember last year when Elbert got called up to Jacksonville, he also started giving up home runs like they were going out of style.

2007-08-09 17:23:39
69.   Wilbert Robinson
no more kershaw tonight
2007-08-09 17:23:56
70.   Jon Weisman
66 - It's just funny how that episode has kidnapped the word "monorail." I don't think you can say the word anywhere in America without someone bringing up The Simpsons.
2007-08-09 17:24:14
71.   El Lay Dave
50 Tom Haller? Sal Maglie?
2007-08-09 17:24:57
72.   D4P
Regarding the "impatience with Loney": did Ned mention Loney somewhere specifically, or was someone (e.g. Jon) just reading between the lines...?
2007-08-09 17:25:29
73.   Gen3Blue
I seem to be getting blacked out on the Pads-St. Lou game. Any idea why.
2007-08-09 17:25:40
74.   Kyle S
Jon, this is kinda random, but how do you pronounce your last name? I've always thought it was Wise-man, but it occured to me the other day that it could be Ways-man. I know, random.
2007-08-09 17:25:49
75.   Eric Enders
Other formerly bland words kidnapped by the Simpsons

isotope
crusty/krusty
...?

2007-08-09 17:26:49
76.   El Lay Dave
21 24 My thought with Nomar today was simply that Grady wanted Nomar to have the day off and wasn't going to extend his duty into the field after PHing.
2007-08-09 17:27:51
77.   Curtis Lowe
70 - I was thinking the same thing I think theres some kind of macro embedded in the toaster that activates with the word Monorail.

I also feel really strongly about monorails and there being shrugged off in LA and OC.

2007-08-09 17:28:24
78.   Bumsrap
OK, the ice has been broken. The world did not come to an end. Now, trade Pierre to the Giants.

Not that this was much of a trade, but for those who have posted here that trades between the Giants and the Dodgers would never happen, enjoy the crow.

2007-08-09 17:28:33
79.   Jon Weisman
72 - That's just me. I'm not saying Loney will be benched, but it just struck me that talking about periodically starting Sweeney, who basically never starts, was sending a message.
2007-08-09 17:28:47
80.   blue22
Isn't the jump to double-A considered the biggest increase in talent (with the exception of getting to the bigs of course)?
2007-08-09 17:29:18
81.   El Lay Dave
[Sweeney] will bring a lot to this club

Don't oversell it Ned - he's a 37-year old bench guy that can occasionally play 1B or corner OF. As long as the PTBNL is a minor-league non-prospect....

2007-08-09 17:29:30
82.   Bob Timmermann
Sweeney will be the 208th player to pull off the Dodger-Giant combo dating back to the 19th Century.

http://tinyurl.com/2b4xg5

2007-08-09 17:29:40
83.   bhsportsguy
77 I think a Monorail system is only viable between in amusement parks and Las Vegas casinos.
2007-08-09 17:29:59
84.   Eric Enders
80 Yes. The jump from High A to AA is considered the biggest jump. And Kershaw, of course, jumped from Low A.
2007-08-09 17:31:33
85.   Jon Weisman
84 - I thought Springfield Gorge was the biggest jump.
2007-08-09 17:31:40
86.   D4P
As long as the PTBNL is a minor-league non-prospect....

Or a starting centerfielder....

2007-08-09 17:32:04
87.   Daniel Zappala
Sweeney could also start in LF and spell Gonzo there.
2007-08-09 17:32:39
88.   Humma Kavula
75 Cromulent.
2007-08-09 17:33:00
89.   natepurcell
i wonder if Sabean would want Pierre again this winter for say uh...salary relief.
2007-08-09 17:33:13
90.   regfairfield
81 I think it's better than him backing it up with "Have you seen our roster in Vegas?", truthful as it may be.
2007-08-09 17:33:56
91.   berkowit28
41 From your explanation, it appears that the player needs to be placed on waivers only within the acquiring team's own division - that's an odd one. It must have originally been within the team's league, and got transferred to division when the leagues first got two divisions each. Nowadays, a team wanting a trade in a division with only 4 teams has a lot more chances of completing it than one with 6 teams. It's odd that other teams in the league, in other divisions, don't get a look in.

In this case, trading for APTBNL from the worst team in the division by the next-worst (Dodgers) means no restrictions on either side.

2007-08-09 17:34:57
92.   Bumsrap
87 - Perhaps if there were a pre-game spelling bee
2007-08-09 17:35:12
93.   Curtis Lowe
83 - That's the kind of backwards thinking that has left SoCal with horrid public transport.
2007-08-09 17:35:52
94.   D4P
89
I was thinking someone should have asked Ned in the chat if any other teams had contacted him about Pierre.
2007-08-09 17:36:21
95.   Andrew Shimmin
91- He was just using the other division teams to illustrate the point. The Mets couldn't have grabbed up sweet, sweet Sweeney, either.
2007-08-09 17:36:51
96.   DXMachina
75 Embiggen.
2007-08-09 17:37:30
97.   Bob Timmermann
91
The players have to pass through waivers after July 31st for ANY trade regardless of the two teams and whatever leagues or divisions they were in.

Sweeney's name was put on waivers and each team had a chance to put in a claim.
Nobody claimed him, all 29 teams passed on him.

So now he could be traded.

2007-08-09 17:37:56
98.   Bob Timmermann
92
And a hot plate!
2007-08-09 17:38:03
99.   Eric Enders
91 I believe the waiver pecking order goes like this:

1) All teams in the same league as the player's current team, in order from worst record to best.
2) All teams in the other league, in order from worst record to best.

I was merely mentioning our division rivals because they are the teams most likely to want to block a player we are trying to acquire, and they didn't get the chance to do so.

2007-08-09 17:38:59
100.   blue22
94. Think he put Pierre on waivers? Its common enough that I bet it happened.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-08-09 17:39:31
101.   Bob Timmermann
If someone had put in a claim, the team with priority would have gotten Sweeney unless the Giants decided they didn't want him to go to that team.
2007-08-09 17:40:16
102.   Bob Timmermann
100
I'm 99% certain the Dodgers would have put Pierre on the waiver wire. That's fairly standard practice for teams to gauge interest in any player on the team.
2007-08-09 17:40:31
103.   Jon Weisman
More than 800 comments so far today - spread thin over the various threads.
2007-08-09 17:41:23
104.   Jon Weisman
Bob and I were both put on revocable waivers - no takers.
2007-08-09 17:41:37
105.   Eric Enders
97 Are you certain about that? Was this a change with the new CBA, or have I spent my entire life misunderstanding the process?

The way regfairfield describes it in 44 is the way I have always understood it to work. I didn't think a player had to pass through all 29 teams in order to be traded -- just far enough down the list for the team he's being traded to to claim him.

2007-08-09 17:41:47
106.   Bluebleeder87
We should have just kept Marlon Anderson! don't get me wrong Sweeney is a good left hander off the bench but still. It's almost as if there admitting that trading (DFA?) Marlon Anderson was a mistake.

Ps I was at the game with TC when the trade (DFA?) went thrue so I don't know the details.

2007-08-09 17:42:30
107.   D4P
103
Thanks go out to Pierre batting 7th, the Dodgers scoring (5 times!), extra innings, and a trade
2007-08-09 17:43:04
108.   D4P
It's almost as if there admitting that trading (DFA?) Marlon Anderson was a mistake

See also: Betemit, Wilson

2007-08-09 17:43:19
109.   Icaros
74

He pronounces it like Walt Weiss-man.

2007-08-09 17:44:22
110.   Jon Weisman
106 - It's not like that. The Dodgers' situation has simply changed since Anderson was DFAed. The main reason there is room for Sweeney now is because Betemit is gone.
2007-08-09 17:44:57
111.   Andrew Shimmin
There's one team in MLB this year that has gotten lower OPS production out of its CFs than the Dodgers. The third worst team has a 50 point lead on the Dodgers.
2007-08-09 17:47:54
112.   Bob Timmermann
If someone claims the player, it's not a trade, it's just a claim, sort of like how the D-Backs got Kim and Cirillo. Florida and Minnesota are getting nothing back for those two guys.

At least that's how I understand it.

2007-08-09 17:49:31
113.   Eric Enders
106 I'm going to keep fighting the good fight against this "we should have just kept Anderson" stuff. Look, if we had kept Anderson, then either James Loney or Matt Kemp would have spent most of the past two months in Triple A. Colletti wanted both of them in the majors, so Anderson had to go. It's very likely that he wanted to keep Anderson but decided that playing Loney and Kemp was more important than hanging onto a replaceable bench player. And then he proceeded to -- gasp -- replace that replaceable bench player when there was a little more roster flexibility.

The Anderson DFA and the Sweeney trade have to be evaluated on their merits AT THE TIME. And at the time Anderson was DFAed, there was really no other choice. We were desperate for more offense in the everyday lineup, and the only way to get it was to call up two guys from AAA. Which worked out quite nicely, I might add.

2007-08-09 17:49:41
114.   Jon Weisman
Do you guys read Dodgerama? He's sort of a man after my own heart, the way his pessimism and optimism do battle.
2007-08-09 17:49:48
115.   Bob Timmermann
I'm thinking the differences Eric and I have were mostly semantic.
2007-08-09 17:49:56
116.   D4P
111
But the Dodgers's CFers have the most stolen bases, most sacrifice hits, and fewest strikeouts...!
2007-08-09 17:51:09
117.   Daniel Zappala
Sweeney + Proctor > Betemit ?
2007-08-09 17:56:26
118.   Jon Weisman
Padres-Cardinals 0-0 in the third.
2007-08-09 17:57:09
119.   Humma Kavula
How is Mr. Ankiel doing?
2007-08-09 17:57:27
120.   Kyle S
109 - Thanks.
2007-08-09 17:58:59
121.   Gagne55
Love you Olmedo, but you are done. Sweeny looks like a nice pick up.
2007-08-09 18:03:16
122.   Bluebleeder87
(114 )

yup, I read.

2007-08-09 18:04:50
123.   Fallout
117 Daniel Zappala

At least in the short term, yes.

2007-08-09 18:10:52
124.   Wilbert Robinson
122 Yes I hate to say it but I agree it has to be Olmedo. Maybe they can find a reason to put him on the DL. I just don't see them sending down Delwyn after a 4 hit game. Nor can I see them going with 11 pitchers after the strain put on the staff in July.
2007-08-09 18:14:58
125.   WellsforKemp
LaRussa is a genius. instead of Kennedy(who sucks but still) batting 8th and coming up with two on and 2 out. Pineiro comes up and strikes out on 3 pitches in the 8 spot
2007-08-09 18:21:25
126.   Bluebleeder87
I'm thinking there gonna let go of R. Hernandez but that's just my guess.
2007-08-09 18:22:06
127.   Humma Kavula
Sigh. Whither the Tomato?

Withered.

2007-08-09 18:25:23
128.   Wilbert Robinson
Rick Ankiel is a strike out factory.
2007-08-09 18:30:09
129.   Bob Timmermann
I think the differences between Eric and I are mostly semiotic.
2007-08-09 18:39:28
130.   Sam DC
DC Fans a bit cheeky with Mr. Beckham tonight.

http://tinyurl.com/2v7jfs

2007-08-09 18:41:08
131.   FirstMohican
I can totally see why Ned coveted Proctor now. The guy speaks Ned's language:

"This was a big team win [sports cliche #1]," said Proctor, obtained last week from the Yankees for games like this one. "We executed a lot on offense [#2] today and that's the key [#3], just don't try to do too much [#4]. Our big guys have not been playing the way they're capable of [#5], but that's baseball [#6]."

2007-08-09 18:51:04
132.   Eric Stephen
I for one am willing to let the Dodgers do whatever it takes to let Mark Sweeney wear his familiar #9.
2007-08-09 18:55:38
133.   jujibee
Or maybe, someone picked Juan Pierre off waivers and the Dodgers arte still finalizing the details before making it public. That would make room for Sweeney, no?
2007-08-09 19:00:30
134.   jujibee
I know it's been mentioned before, but the more I heare it the more I like it. Maybe someone claimed Pierre off of waivers today.
2007-08-09 19:01:33
135.   Eric Stephen
Has there been any update of Delwyn Young's leg injury yet? I haven't seen anything other than just cramping in his calves from the AP game story. Maybe Young's injury, if serious, greased the skids for the Sweeney trade.
2007-08-09 19:02:00
136.   MMSMikey
.133

LOL

2007-08-09 19:06:06
137.   WellsforKemp
Doug Davis back to being Doug Davis against the Pirates 2-0 Pitt Stl 2-0 over SD in the 7th
2007-08-09 19:07:13
138.   WellsforKemp
Rick Ankiel! HR! 5-0 Stl
2007-08-09 19:07:30
139.   heato
HR Ankiel!
2007-08-09 19:08:59
140.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres formerly impregnable bullpen seems very pregnable lately.

The Padres offense being unable to score off of Joel Pineiro is disturbing.

2007-08-09 19:12:10
141.   WellsforKemp
I hope Ian Snell can live up to some potential and stop the D'Backs tonight
2007-08-09 19:12:20
142.   WellsforKemp
I hope Ian Snell can live up to some potential and stop the D'Backs tonight
2007-08-09 19:13:26
143.   WellsforKemp
141
142

ok, I really hope......

2007-08-09 19:13:53
144.   regfairfield
Over/under on number of home runs Ankiel hits until he goes into the inevitable 0 for 25 skid?
2007-08-09 19:16:07
145.   Bob Timmermann
144
I see you are not a sentimental type.
2007-08-09 19:18:17
146.   gpellamjr
145 I hope I don't offend anyone's sensibilities, but who is Ankiel and why do I care?
2007-08-09 19:18:26
147.   WellsforKemp
144
Well, what a coininsidence they play the Dodgers next... so..... 3 or 4 over the weekend sounds about right before the 0 for 25
2007-08-09 19:19:40
148.   WellsforKemp
146

http://www.truebluela.com/story/2007/8/9/18136/24243#commenttop

2007-08-09 19:19:47
149.   Bob Timmermann
146
Apparently, your knowledge of baseball does not go back far.

https://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/758871.html

The first link in that post will explain it to you.

2007-08-09 19:21:38
150.   WellsforKemp
149

sorry Bob, yours is nice too....

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-08-09 19:22:07
151.   arbfuldodger
Game notes from the Braves/Mets game: New York CF Marlon Anderson left the game in the bottom of the fourth inning with an apparent left wrist injury
2007-08-09 19:22:52
152.   Bob Timmermann
150
Don't worry about it. It's gpellamjr who only cares about history if it's written in Latin or Greek! ;-)
2007-08-09 19:25:58
153.   gpellamjr
148, 149 I guess I've never mentioned it here, but I stopped following baseball (and basketball in 1999), when I became heavily involved in politics. I didn't watch a Dodger game again until midway through the 2002 season. I don't know how I made it through '03. My baseball fan career goes like this: 94-99, 02-present. So I missed a lot and I'm still learning.
2007-08-09 19:27:42
154.   Bob Timmermann
153
All you need to do is read the boxscore and play-by-play of this game:

http://retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2000/B10030SLN2000.htm

2007-08-09 19:29:03
155.   regfairfield
145 Just a natural reaction when a see a guy that walks 24 times in 409 plate appearances in the minors.
2007-08-09 19:29:37
156.   Bob Timmermann
Rick Ankiel pitched 4 innings in the 2000 postseason in 3 games against the Braves and Mets.

He threw nine wild pitches.

2007-08-09 19:31:27
157.   Bob Timmermann
The Cardinals PBP guy (Dan McGlaughlin) is treating Ankiel's home run as a spark that will send the Cardinals to the top of the NL Central.

Al Hrabosky, on the other hand, is extremely cautious and thinks that no one should expect much.

2007-08-09 20:11:08
158.   Marty
I think I may have found the perfect woman for Mr. Shimmin.

http://www.unknownhighway.com/comments.php?id=6256_0_1_0_C

2007-08-09 20:22:01
159.   Andrew Shimmin
Identical irrational hatreds aren't good. You need complimentary ones. Like, I need a woman who can't stand acrobats. Or animals that do tricks.
2007-08-09 20:27:58
160.   Bob Timmermann
Few hatreds are complimentary.
2007-08-09 20:29:49
161.   Andrew Shimmin
Stupid homonyms. I hate them so much. . . So much!
2007-08-09 20:33:28
162.   Marty
Actually, you two are still a perfect match. She has an irrational fear of clowns. Yours is an irrational hatred.

You are her white knight in shining armor on the hill in morning in America.

2007-08-09 20:40:31
163.   Andrew Shimmin
162- Did you get a new gig with eHarmony? I'm still poking through the threads from the last couple of days, so I might have missed the announcement.
2007-08-09 20:44:40
164.   Icaros
I was trying to get Andrew in at FarmersOnly.com. They weren't interested.
2007-08-09 20:48:39
165.   Andrew Shimmin
I'd need to join the one that serves the people eHarmony rejects. CouldBeWorse.com, or whatever, I don't remember the name. Slate's commercial reviewer thought it was a good idea.
2007-08-09 20:49:08
166.   underdog
163 I think it was MeHarmony.com, actually.

(reference to amusing SNL ad parody)

Any word on what roster move the Dodgers are making for Sweeney? I'm assuming they're telling whoever it is privately tonight and won't announce 'til tomorrow...

2007-08-09 20:49:48
167.   Andrew Shimmin
Because you know you've hit the big time when the internet decides you're too sad to inflict on anybody else.
2007-08-09 20:49:52
168.   underdog
(I'd link to MeHarmony but they took it down from YouTube, darnit.)
2007-08-09 21:00:29
169.   jujibee
Anyone see who's on the front page of Baseball America? Check it out. He was unheard of until he started putting up numbers after being re-converted into a pitcher.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/

2007-08-09 21:00:58
170.   goofus
I would have thought Gonzo would be our left-handed pinch-hitter, and Nomar the right-hander next year. Acquiring a washed-up veteran is Ned's version of getting a little exercise.....
2007-08-09 21:12:40
171.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers may not announce any move until Sweeney actually joins the team. He has to get his stuff and move it out to St. Louis.
2007-08-09 21:17:51
172.   ryu
It has been announced on dodgers.com.
2007-08-09 21:25:04
173.   underdog
170 Sweeney's a free agent after the season I believe so this doesn't have much to do with next season. He's a good pure pinch hitter who can spot start in the OF or at first. But, yah, maybe one of those guys at least will be back next year and come off the bench (I hope).
2007-08-09 21:26:35
174.   natepurcell
169

awesome.

2007-08-09 21:38:03
175.   Eric Stephen
169 ,174 That photo looks like a cross between Ramon Martinez (I) and Pedro Astacio.
2007-08-09 21:39:42
176.   Eric Stephen
172 I read Bob's comment to mean the Dodgers wouldn't announce the move that corresponds with Sweeney joining the 25-man roster. For instance, Delwyn Young or Houlton being sent down, or Roberto Hernandez DFA'd.
2007-08-09 21:45:45
177.   underdog
Here, I'll give the odds of roster move, in order:

1) Houlton sent down
2) Hernandez sent down if he agrees or DFAd
3) Young sent down (alas)
4) Saenz DFAd
5) Mike Lieberthal, since he never plays anyway.

2007-08-09 21:46:59
178.   Eric Stephen
177 If Lieberthal ain't startin', he's departin'?
2007-08-09 22:13:30
179.   overkill94
Maybe the goodwill between the Dodgers and Giants will result in some uptick in the standings? Honestly, I'll talk anything at this point.
2007-08-09 22:31:13
180.   Bob Timmermann
Game of the day tomorrow: Pittsburgh at San Francisco.

Matt Morris takes on Russ Ortiz!

2007-08-09 22:53:24
181.   underdog
178 I was being sort of facetious, of course. Free Lieberthal!
2007-08-10 04:25:38
182.   D4P
Regarding Sweeney:

Let's hope Mark gives Juan a key to Mark's locker. And maybe Loney too.

2007-08-10 06:10:57
183.   old dodger fan
177 Since July 25 Houlton has pitched 1 inning. Seems like the logical choice.
2007-08-10 07:05:07
184.   Sushirabbit
We've been in the process of selling our house and buying another. It looks like we close on both on the 24th. It seems like it's more stressful than having a child (2nd born new years eve past).

Anyway, the past 800 comments (particulary the past 183) have definitely helped with stress relief.

2007-08-10 07:06:59
185.   old dodger fan
Congratulations on finding a buyer. That is getting tougher to do these days.
2007-08-10 07:20:12
186.   D4P
The Dodgers are currently the 8th most likely NL team to make the playoffs, according to Baseball Prospectus.

That's an improvement over yesterday, when we were 9th.

2007-08-10 07:25:03
187.   old dodger fan
SportsClubStats says our liklihood of making the playoffs is 20%.
2007-08-10 07:28:09
188.   D4P
Baseball Prospectus has a much more optimistic 27.8%
2007-08-10 07:37:01
189.   Wilbert Robinson
188 These must all be Pre-Sweeney trade projections.
2007-08-10 07:47:37
190.   GobiasIndustries
187
188

Here's a stat for you guys: according to CBS' the Power of Ten, 32% of women in America consider themselves feminists. Why is that important you may ask? It isn't.......that's the point. Lame playoff projections are just that...lame. We are one hot streak away from reclaiming the division. The way the NL is playing as a whole, you could throw out any playoff projection stat for any team and it will always be inaccurate. So why bother? My prediction for us making the playoffs...........100% chance. That's called faith in my team. Maybe it's naive but I've had faith in this team all along and I'm not about to let a few bad weeks and a few jaded and biased sportswriters/webmasters make up my mind for me. Sorry if this comes off as negative, I don't mean it that way at all, I know we all want the same thing.

2007-08-10 07:47:57
191.   D4P
189
They must be waiting for the corresponding roster move
2007-08-10 07:57:17
192.   old dodger fan
190 There is enough season left that it is still in our hands. The same site that says we have a 20% chance of making the playoffs says that if we finish 29-19 we have an 88% chance but if we only go 26-22 it drops to 22%.

We have 2 teams to pass so we can't count on both of them going cold. We need to start winning every series and sweep one or two.

We all want the same thing but unless we start winning games it isn't going to happen. Now is when it gets fun.

2007-08-10 08:12:16
193.   D4P
190
Hmmm. You refer to "biased sportswriters/webmasters", but then you also make it pretty clear that your allegiance to the Dodgers leads you to believe they will make the playoffs regardless of circumstance.

Isn't allowing "what you want" to influence "what you expect to happen" a pretty good indicator of bias...?

2007-08-10 08:17:28
194.   Disabled List
Mid-July to early August has been a weird part of the season for the Dodgers the last two seasons.

2006:
July 13-26 - 1 win, 13 losses
July 27-Aug. 15 - 17 wins, 1 loss

2007:
July 19-Aug. 8 - 4 wins, 14 losses
Aug. 9-??? - 1 win, 0 losses so far...

2007-08-10 08:24:57
195.   Jon Weisman
New post/open chat thread at Screen Jam.
2007-08-10 08:51:17
196.   old dodger fan
Some interesting stuff on Roberto Hernandez-
We are the 10th ML team he has played for. He has appeared in 996 games. In all those games he has 2 plate appearances. A single and a K. He is batting .500. Anybody who can play ML baseball at age 42 has my admiration.
2007-08-10 09:34:27
197.   fanerman
So, will he make appearance 1000 for us?
2007-08-10 10:05:50
198.   Jim Hitchcock
184 You want stress, Sushi? I've been in the process of buying a duplex in Carson City since the end of April...held up by LAX who is funding about half the purchase price (they bought my home in Westchester in 2001, and were obligated to pay the differential between what they paid and the cost of replacement housing when I moved out 4 years later).

They've put up a fight every step of the way, but I should have the money next week. No more stress. My life will be perfect!

2007-08-10 10:08:18
199.   Jon Weisman
We were moving into our first house 10 days before my son was born. That was a wee bit stressful.
2007-08-10 10:11:56
200.   fanerman
Why did LAX buy your old house?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-08-10 10:14:33
201.   Nagman
Does anybody know when the last Padre-Dodger trade was and who was involved? I don't remember one but I'm guessing there must've been an insignificant one sometime in the last few years.
2007-08-10 10:17:15
202.   Bob Timmermann
201
In 1998, the Dodgers traded Jim Bruske to the Padres for Widd Workman.

Bruske had told off Tommy Lasorda in the locker room and Lasorda thought a trip to San Diego was punishment. Of course, the Padres won the pennant.

Bruske was subsequently sold to the Yankees later that year.

I'm sure he enjoyed the bonus checks.

2007-08-10 10:19:22
203.   underdog
Widd Workman, gotta love it. That wasn't even that long ago, and I have no recollection of either guy.

Okay, I'm going to be mostly away from the 'net for the next coupla days. Will try to find the Dodgers score on a radio as I sit on Tomales bay, but they'll be in my (Dodger) thoughts. Buena suerte to them.

2007-08-10 10:19:33
204.   Jim Hitchcock
200 For airport expansion. I lived between Aviation, Century, Arbor Vitae, and La Cienega. The original plan was to turn the area into a new cargo terminal, but 9/11 has altered things...not really sure what the plan is now.

It was a bit strange, though, to see my neighborhood of some 46 years being eaten one house at a time :)

2007-08-10 10:20:51
205.   fanerman
204 Ah, so is that some eminent domain thing?
2007-08-10 10:27:39
206.   Nagman
202 Thanks.
2007-08-10 10:28:51
207.   Bob Timmermann
205
Stupid Fifth Amendment! What did it ever do for me?
2007-08-10 10:30:13
208.   Jim Hitchcock
205 Yeah, in a sense. But it really worked out for us. My sister wanted to sell in 2001 (she needed the money), but we are splitting a differntial payment of $389,000 (paid for by a $3.00 tax on every passenger through LAX (thanks, Bob!)), so, in effect, we got to ride the real estate boom without actually owning property.
2007-08-10 10:37:55
209.   ToyCannon
I just found this an interesting tidbit from Rotowire given the fact that Brad Penny has been an offensive weapon this year.

"Mike Jacobs (1B) FLA 8/10/2007
Jacobs' ninth inning single on Thursday ended his 33 at-bat hitless streak. That sets a new Marlins record, previously held by Brad Penny."

2007-08-10 10:42:38
210.   fanerman
That's the same 85 OPS+ Brad Penny? The same 16-OPS+points-higher-than-Juan-Pierre Brad Penny?
2007-08-10 10:44:30
211.   regfairfield
Brad Penny career: .157/.167/.212

This year: .295/.326/.386

Roids? I think so.

2007-08-10 10:48:17
212.   D4P
Penny BABIP:

2006: .245
2007: .394

2007-08-10 10:54:24
213.   fanerman
Oh you take the fun out of everything.
2007-08-10 10:54:31
214.   still bevens
Penny might be lucky, but he at least appears like he has an idea of what he's trying to do when he comes to the plate. I've seen a couple PA's when he's looking to his a ball down the line or through a gap. Compare this with Tomko who can barely get a bunt down. I appreciate Penny's approach at least.
2007-08-10 10:56:00
215.   D4P
Oh you take the fun out of everything

That's what stats are for: to ruin the game.

2007-08-10 11:03:41
216.   old dodger fan
I have heard some bad reasons for acquiring a player but Colletti said he picked up Sweeney because, "he has tremendous makeup".

Does he sell Mary Kay on the side?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

2007-08-10 11:03:46
217.   Scanman33
I've been looking for this info and can't find it. Does anyone know how many bunt hits Pierre has this year? It doesn't seem like many (I remember 1). Thanks in advance.
2007-08-10 11:05:15
218.   SG6
212 Is BABIP useful for offensive analysis? I thought it was only useful for pitchers, to see if they're victims of luck or not.

Otherwise, all hitters are the same, except for HRs and Ks, no?

Did Tony Gwynn just get lucky his entire career?

2007-08-10 11:06:05
219.   Scanman33
216-In all fairness, Sweeney has been "there".
2007-08-10 11:06:37
220.   Jon Weisman
218 - I think it can be a predictor. Last season, for example, Andre Ethier had a BABIP of around .400 on August 1. His batting average at the time just didn't seem sustainable.
2007-08-10 11:06:45
221.   Humma Kavula
218 Why wouldn't it work the same way for hitters -- the beneficiaries or victims of luck that regress to the mean?
2007-08-10 11:07:47
222.   Telemachos
217 This article's about a month ago, but according to BP, Pierre has 8 bunt hits in 27 attempts. That's the second-most attempts (Willy Tavaras has the most, with 36. However, Tavaras has been far more successful -- he's got 28 bunt hits).

http://tinyurl.com/3x89hy

2007-08-10 11:08:09
223.   D4P
217
Check www.fangraphs.com
2007-08-10 11:08:40
224.   Telemachos
In fact, what's stunning about the list of bunt leaders is how UN-successful Pierre is -- he has the lowest success rate by far.
2007-08-10 11:10:01
225.   D4P
Pierre has 11 bunt hits in 48 bunt attempts. I'm not sure if bunt attempts includes bunts that result in "sacrifices"...
2007-08-10 11:10:58
226.   regfairfield
218 The simple math is BABIP should equal line drive percentage +.12. For example, when Nomar had a .350 BABIP in the first half last year, it was sustainable because he had a 23% line drive percentage. If a guy does the same thing with a 15% line drive percentage, he'll probably collapse.
2007-08-10 11:12:20
227.   Kevin Lewis
Is Joe at "The Soul of Baseball" on tour or something? Normally he spits out three or four a day, but it has been awhile.
2007-08-10 11:12:44
228.   Scanman33
Thanks Machos and D4P.

How's life in NC D4?

2007-08-10 11:12:54
229.   Humma Kavula
If I recall, his success rate is way off this year. He's been much more successful in the past.

He's certainly looked terrible doing it. It's frustrating to watch, certainly.

Is Taveras really 28-for-36 (.778 batting average) on bunt hits? Or does that include sacrifices? If he can get on at a nearly .800 clip that way, I'm surprised that he has ONLY 36 attempts.

2007-08-10 11:13:15
230.   D4P
when Nomar had a .350 BABIP in the first half last year, it was sustainable because he had a 23% line drive percentage

This assumes that the line drive percentage is sustainable. I take it that's generally true...?

2007-08-10 11:15:11
231.   Telemachos
In terms of bunt hits, Pierre's successful about 23% of the time. That's Omar Vizquel territory (Vizquel's actually slightly more successful).
2007-08-10 11:16:59
232.   JoeyP
"He has tremendous makeup and will bring a lot to this club."

The Dodgers are so anti-sabermetrics that these quotes make it seem that as long as Colletti is making decisions, and as long as he continues to use his "evaluation" processes--->its a hopeless situation.

The Dodgers lone hope is for the budget to be so great that it makes up for bad baseball decisions.

2007-08-10 11:18:18
233.   Bob Timmermann
232
Apparently Home Depot was having a sale on broad brushes.
2007-08-10 11:18:37
234.   D4P
228
Pretty good these days (the recent heat wave excepted). Mrs. D4P started a new job a few months ago and is much happier, though still being worked like a dog for not much money. I'll be finishing this year, and hopefully starting a real job next year at this time.

How's Scan Jr. doing...?

2007-08-10 11:19:02
235.   Daniel Zappala
Buying a house is stressful? Having a baby is stressful? Doing both at the same time is stressful? None of you know stress until you are up for tenure at a major university.
2007-08-10 11:19:09
236.   regfairfield
230 It's not as stable year to year as other batted balls, but generally people will have similar LD% year after year. For example, Jeter's have floated between 19.3% and 23.9% since 2002.
2007-08-10 11:21:27
237.   fanerman
232 I suppose it's possible that Colletti's thought process is more complicated than that and when he talks to the media, he goes into cliche mode?
2007-08-10 11:22:03
238.   paranoidandroid
Any word on the roster move to add Sweeney?

I hope Delwyn gets to stay with the big club and at least get a few at-bats this weekend to see if he can build on his game yesterday.

I don't see us going with 11 pitchers indefinetly without an off day next week, but we could do that for a few days and see if things go well for the starters going deeper into games. That would have Houlton or Hernandez on the bubble along with Delwyn.

I just hope that Lowe isn't headed to the DL...

2007-08-10 11:23:40
239.   D4P
236
Other than luck, is there anything that could reasonably explain Penny's jump in LD% from 16.3% to 33.3% from 2006 to 2007...?
2007-08-10 11:24:44
240.   fanerman
239 Roids.
2007-08-10 11:25:20
241.   JoeyP
How about making Grady Little the GM:

We need more on-base percentage at the top," Little said. "It's a pure numbers thing there. To get people to score runs, you have to get people on. We need a little more on-base percentage from this man [Pierre]. Look at [Cincinnati's] lineup. They have a first baseman, Scott Hatteberg, leading off. You wonder what's the reason? Just look at the stat sheet. He has a .400 on-base percentage or better."

Little said he told Pierre of the move after Wednesday night's game and that Pierre wasn't looking forward to it because he had rarely done it in his career.

"But I'm not doing this," Little said. "I'm writing it down, but the numbers dictate this. What I go by is the bottom line. Early in the season, it was hard to judge by the amount of at-bats. Now there are a lot of numbers to judge by. Maybe this will help Juan get it going."

I have to make a vow to not criticize Grady anymore. Looks like he either "gets it", or really wants to be the next Oakland A's manager. Of course, working with the Red Sox may have taught him alot of things too.

2007-08-10 11:25:23
242.   SG6
221 - Because it assumes all hitters are basically the same, except for HR power and K. For pitchers it works, because they face all the different batters, and eventually, every pitcher will face the same number/types of batter (in general).

In other words, Pitcher A has to face the Tony Gwynns, Ryan Howards, Juan Pierres, as does Pitcher B, so they wash. But to say that Gwynn, Howard, Ted Williams, Juan Pierre should all have the same or similar batting average excepting HRs and Ks, sounds odd to me.

226 - after refresh, this makes some sense now. I'm guessing Tony Gwynn had a high line drive %?

2007-08-10 11:27:19
243.   Scanman33
234-'Bout time you got a real job.

Scanbabies are good. My 7 month old son is going to catch are 2 year old daughter in weight here soon. She's petite, though, so there's no concern.

2007-08-10 11:29:01
244.   Jon Weisman
242 - I don't think you have to assume all hitters would have the same BABIP to use that stat. I think you can still look for massive fluctuations.
2007-08-10 11:29:08
245.   regfairfield
242 I'm guessing, batted ball stats only go back to 2002.

239 Small sample size pretty much. He does look much better at the plate than he did a couple years ago, so he probably put some work in. Still, a 33% LD percentage is unsustainable, no matter who you are.

2007-08-10 11:30:25
246.   D4P
My 7 month old son is going to catch are 2 year old daughter in weight here soon

Sounds like he takes after his dad...

2007-08-10 11:31:21
247.   SG6
241 - Note that Juan Pierre also "gets it", not that it would change anything:

Pierre, the only Dodger to play in every game, said he was disappointed with the move but understood why it was made.

"It's frustrating," he said. "If I was batting .330 and had an on-base percentage of .400 I'd be at the top of the lineup. So ultimately it's my bad. It's my fault that I'm down there.

"It's crunch time and patience is running thin around here. Guess I'm the first glimpse of it."

2007-08-10 11:35:16
248.   Humma Kavula
247 And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a trolley car.
2007-08-10 11:35:35
249.   D4P
If I was batting .330 and had an on-base percentage of .400

If Juan Pierre were batting .330, he'd have an on-base percentage of .349

2007-08-10 11:38:50
250.   fanerman
249 We can't say that Juan Pierre "gets it" until he realizes that little fact.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-08-10 11:39:11
251.   paranoidandroid
If Pierre were batting .330, it would be in the eighth inning on Opening Day.
2007-08-10 11:42:30
252.   SG6
244 - OK. I get it now. BABIP is not a metric to compare hitters with other hitters, just to compare a hitter to himself to gauge whether he's on a lucky (or unlucky) streak or not. Thanks.
2007-08-10 11:47:13
253.   old dodger fan
249 His OBP is .036 above his BA this year. His career OBP is .047 above his career BA so if he was batting .330 his OBP would probably be about .375 and he would be batting 1st and I would be happy about it.
2007-08-10 11:50:59
254.   D4P
253
Oops: I was looking at OBP and SLG. MLB.com confuses me by listing OBP, SLG, and BA in that order rather than the more familiar BA, OBP, and SLG.
2007-08-10 12:01:33
255.   Bob Timmermann
Does anyone know what seminal event in Dodger Thoughts history transpired the last time the Dodgers won a game in St. Louis?
2007-08-10 12:03:00
256.   Humma Kavula
255

1000 comments?

2007-08-10 12:03:34
257.   trainwreck
Can't say I am expecting much out of a pinch-hitter.
2007-08-10 12:05:59
258.   D4P
255
Looks like that was the game Choi ran into Rolen.
2007-08-10 12:10:05
259.   CeyHey10
235 Amen to that tongue-in-cheek statement, DZ -- my tenure packet is due Sept 1, and while I haven't leapt into the wedding pool (yet, waiting for tenure :)), this is way worse than the house thing was for me.
2007-08-10 12:10:14
260.   Bob Timmermann
258
That was not the seminal event I was looking for. This was far more DT-oriented.
2007-08-10 12:13:54
261.   CeyHey10
258 Speaking of Choi (sorta), I'm writing this from a Seoul hotel room, and the standard welcome-to-Korea pamphlets on the bedside table tell the story of how popular baseball is here -- with a nod to the pioneering "Park Chan Ho of the Los Angeles Dodgers."
2007-08-10 12:17:53
262.   CeyHey10
... and I just popped on the TV, and South Korean ESPN is carrying a not-at-all-live broadcast of the final game of the Dodgers-Reds series! It's actually the FSN feed, so it makes it sound/look like Charley Steiner has returned to the "freedom" of his old network. Life is good, in a lost-in-translation sort of way.
2007-08-10 12:18:35
263.   Bob Timmermann
How soon they forget:

DODGERS 6TH: NUNEZ REPLACED ROLEN (PLAYING 3B); due to an injured neck/shoulder; Kent homered;
Bradley singled to left;
JARVIS REPLACED MORRIS (PITCHING); Ledee was hit by a pitch
[Bradley to second]; Phillips lined to right; Robles lined to
left; GRABOWSKI BATTED FOR ALVAREZ; Grabowski walked [Bradley to
third, Ledee to second]; Izturis singled to center [Bradley
scored, Ledee scored, Grabowski to second]; Choi homered
[Grabowski scored, Izturis scored]; Drew grounded out (first to
pitcher); 6 R, 4 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Dodgers 9, Cardinals 7.

2007-08-10 12:22:29
264.   Icaros
Wow, the Grabowski Principle.

I miss Steve.

2007-08-10 12:22:43
265.   D4P
263
When was The Grabowski Principle first invoked...?
2007-08-10 12:28:51
266.   regfairfield
265 Then.
2007-08-10 12:30:43
267.   D4P
266
So I gathered from 264 . May 05 was before my time.
2007-08-10 12:30:56
268.   Icaros
That was also the year the dreaded Naccarato Prophecy came true.
2007-08-10 12:33:10
269.   fanerman
The Naccarato Prophecy. I think I blocked that from my memory.
2007-08-10 12:34:14
270.   Telemachos
At the risk of digging up bad mojo, what happened to Steve? Did he get banned, did he just drift away from DT?
2007-08-10 12:35:47
271.   D4P
Did he get banned, did he just drift away from DT?

The Boys gave him the beat, and freed his soul, after which he got lost in their rock n' roll and, well, you apparently know the rest...

In all seriousness, I don't know why he left.

2007-08-10 12:36:35
272.   Bob Timmermann
270
Like Dobie Gray, Steve has just drifted away.
2007-08-10 12:36:59
273.   Bob Timmermann
271
You're too young to know that song.
2007-08-10 12:42:08
274.   Bob Timmermann
So from the last time the Dodgers won in St. Louis, only Jeff Kent is still on the 25-man roster. Yhency Brazoban and Jason Repko got into the game also.

The Cardinals still have from that game:
David Eckstein
Jim Edmonds
Albert Pujols
Scott Rolen

2007-08-10 12:42:19
275.   D4P
273
It's one of those songs that radio stations continued playing after the year of its release.
2007-08-10 12:47:41
276.   Icaros
275

...a billion times daily.

2007-08-10 12:51:10
277.   D4P
276
And yet, I still don't even know who sings it...
2007-08-10 12:51:56
278.   Icaros
277

Me neither.

2007-08-10 12:53:19
279.   Humma Kavula
I believe it is the Brothers Doobie.
2007-08-10 12:54:27
280.   ToyCannon
(Dobie Gray) Not to mention all the covers that D4P just adores.

We really owe the Cardinals a beat down. Now that they have thrown their aces(Wells and Pineiro) at the Padres we get the soft underbelly of the rotation. Oh, wait that was the soft underbelly.

2007-08-10 12:54:40
281.   Bob Timmermann
"Drift Away" was made famous by Dobie Gray.

http://www.dobiegray.com/

2007-08-10 12:56:45
282.   Bob Timmermann
280
The Cardinals rotation is pretty much all soft underbellies.

The bullpen is OK.

At times.

People in St. Louis still think the team can contend. But there was no honeymoon for the team for winning the World Series. Sports radio there is full of people who HATE what Jocketty and La Russa have done this year.

2007-08-10 12:57:32
283.   D4P
281
I was gonna look up Dobie Gray on The Google as per 272 , but decided not to. I guess I scooped you.
2007-08-10 12:57:44
284.   weatherman
The Michael Bolton cover is my favorite. I'll be honest with you. I love his music. I do. I'm a Michael Bolton Fan.
2007-08-10 12:58:26
285.   Jon Weisman
I never knew what the title of the "Stop, hey, what's that sound" song was until reading Cecilia Rasmussen's Times story on Sunday.
2007-08-10 12:59:14
286.   D4P
Speaking of "covers":

When was the last time Rod Steward actually sang an original song? I heard him singing John Waite's "Missin' You" on the radio at the store the other day. That guy is shameless.

2007-08-10 13:00:24
287.   D4P
284
Do you celebrate his entire catalog...?
2007-08-10 13:01:05
288.   Humma Kavula
285 For what it's worth, there's no way you'd ever guess.
2007-08-10 13:01:13
289.   ToyCannon
285
Sad, I wonder what % of people even know what happened at Kent State and why.
2007-08-10 13:02:14
290.   weatherman
287 - For my money, it doesn't get any better than when he sings "When a Man Loves a Woman."
2007-08-10 13:04:54
291.   Bob Timmermann
285
I was taught about the Sunset Strip riots in Catholic School.

In 9th grade!

And the song's title is "For What it's Worth."

289
The Kent State killings happened on my father's birthday. I think I remember them from the day it happened. And I was four.

2007-08-10 13:05:14
292.   still bevens
286 You could make the same argument about Elvis. Man never sang an original song in his life.
2007-08-10 13:06:19
293.   Jon Weisman
289 - Apparently, it wasn't about Kent State. Not entirely, anyway.

http://tinyurl.com/2haod4

2007-08-10 13:07:42
294.   Jon Weisman
For my money, I'll only listen to the Patty and Mildred Hill version of Happy Birthday.
2007-08-10 13:08:41
295.   paranoidandroid
289
I graduated from Illinois State and a group took a road trip to Kent State for a memorial service in 1988. There wasn't anything on that campus to recognize what took place there.

A survivor who had been shot spoke at the site he was hit with a bullet. At that time he said collections were being taken to put up a memorial of some sort. Not sure if it ever got done.

There was able 150 people at the little demonstration and I remember getting laughed at by guys who came out of the gym/work out area. They thought it was all funny to see hippie type people there.

Our college campuses are strangely silent with the current "war". Seems apathy isn't limited to those over 30 anyone.

2007-08-10 13:09:16
296.   Bob Timmermann
293
Kent State happened in 1970. "For What It's Worth" was released in 1967.
2007-08-10 13:10:11
297.   weatherman
292 - Neither did Sinatra, really, or any of the Country greats. I don't think Rod Stewart has ever claimed to be a "songsmith." Some folks are just singers.
2007-08-10 13:11:00
298.   paranoidandroid
err.. "those over thirty any more" is what I meant to write.
2007-08-10 13:12:58
299.   D4P
It's one thing to sing songs written by other people, but that have not been previously recorded. It's another thing to only remake songs that had already been "hits". I don't know why people pay for that stuff.
2007-08-10 13:14:36
300.   weatherman
294 - And only when Traditional performs Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-08-10 13:16:09
301.   gpellamjr
You people are boring me with your talk of recent history. For I am only interested in history that is written in Latin or Greek.

299 Syd Barrett singing "King Bee" is the best song cover ever, well worth listening to, and I'm a Roger Waters guy.

2007-08-10 13:17:47
302.   Jon Weisman
296 - I always thought that song was very presicent.

299 - There are plenty of cool covers out there. A good cover also helps you discover a hit song that may have fallen out of the mainstream. Of course, I'm not a regular music buyer.

2007-08-10 13:18:40
303.   silverwidow
Houlton to Vegas.

Here's the lineup from ItD:

Furcal, SS
Martin, C
Loney, 1B
Kent, 2B
Gonzo, LF
Nomar, 3B
Pierre, CF
Ethier, RF
Penny, P

2007-08-10 13:19:08
304.   weatherman
299 - The Beatles (maybe Buddy Holly) were the first group to really make a big deal about being both songwriters and performers. Prior to them it was far more common to find recordings of "standards." In fact, where Folk Music is concerned, one received accolades for have a really broad songlist rather than writing one's own songs.
2007-08-10 13:21:39
305.   jasonungar07
Off topic question...

Who do you guys think is the best baseball player in the game today?

maybe the same question, maybe not...

If you had to pick one player to start a team with tommorrow who would that be?

2007-08-10 13:25:33
306.   Hallux Valgus
304 even after that- Motown's classic catalog could also be called "songs written by Smokey Robinson."

And for a long time, singing different versions of a song wasn't considered a "cover" because no one knew about the versions that didn't become hits. Those versions weren't all that accessible.

2007-08-10 13:26:00
307.   silverwidow
305-Vlad.
2007-08-10 13:26:15
308.   Hallux Valgus
305
Alex Rodriguez

and Jose Reyes.

2007-08-10 13:26:46
309.   Robert Daeley
Current Dodgers.com poll question:

Who should bat leadoff?

Rafael Furcal
Russell Martin
Juan Pierre

2007-08-10 13:27:32
310.   berkowit28
303 One consequence of the Pierre batting order demotion is that it's probably just one short step now to games where Kemp and Ethier are both playing at the same time (Gonzo in LF, Kemp CF, Ethier RF) and Pierre sits, if Kemp comes out of his slump and Ethier is OK while Pierre struggles. Until now it seemed as if that could never happen, even when it should have.
2007-08-10 13:28:19
311.   Disabled List
CSN&Y's "Ohio" was about Kent State.

Another song that everybody recognizes but few actually know the name of is "Baba O'Riley" by The Who.

2007-08-10 13:30:05
312.   regfairfield
305 Depends if you inherit the contract, or the contract status gets reset. The first answer is always Pujols for me, but after that it's some order of Cabrera, Sizemore, Hanley Ramirez, and Reyes.
2007-08-10 13:32:24
313.   ToyCannon
203
Never heard of the Sunset Riots. Listening to the lyics I just assumed it was about all of the unrest at the time and not a specific thing. Since it was put out by Buffalo Springfield I should have known it was before the Kent State murders.
2007-08-10 13:32:30
314.   paranoidandroid
I still think Pierre is an ideal number 8 hitter if he is not at the top of the line-up.

I wish Delwyn got another shot today. Perhaps his calves are still cramped up a bit. Or it's time to find out if LuGo can get out of his funk.

2007-08-10 13:32:39
315.   Jon Weisman
311 - Yeah, that's what was throwing me off.

Not knowing the true name of "Baba O'Riley" was unforgivable in my high school. (I exaggerate for effect.)

2007-08-10 13:37:04
316.   Dodgers49
>> Third baseman Andy LaRoche, another of the Dodgers' top prospects, probably is headed for the disabled list after his back flared up twice on the road trip. He left the team to travel to Los Angeles for an MRI exam, and Bundy said he doesn't expect LaRoche to play in the Sacramento series.

"He's had a recurring problem with his back," Bundy said. "We need to find out what it is."

LaRoche is batting .306 with 16 homers and 43 RBIs in 65 games with Las Vegas. <<

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/9083361.html

2007-08-10 13:40:08
317.   ToyCannon
315
Weren't in HS a decade or two after after Baba was released in 71.
2007-08-10 13:41:55
318.   Humma Kavula
299 There was a guy on 3rd St Promenade for a number of years that could do a reasonable James Taylor impersonation.

He sang several James Taylor songs for coins.

You could also buy a CD of his work -- in which he sang James Taylor songs like James Taylor -- for $10.

You could purchase "James Taylor's Greatest Hits" for less.

2007-08-10 13:42:19
319.   xaphor
Since you're on about music anyway...

RIP Tony Wilson, founder of Factory Records and the Hacienda nightclub.

2007-08-10 13:44:23
320.   bhsportsguy
What's up with Kyle Blair?

He's been spending the summer in the North Woods League in Duluth, Minnesota.

2-3 2.08 8 games, 7 starts, 34.2 IP, 26 hits, 8 ER, 1 HR, 5 HBP, 13 BB, 44 K, 3 WP, .217 BAA.

Competition is mostly players getting ready to start college ball, they use wood bats and play at night.

2007-08-10 13:44:50
321.   still bevens
319 I saw that this afternoon and was crushed. New Order is by far one of my most favorite bands. The whole Factory story is also pretty fascinating and basically rotated around Tony and his questionable business decisions.
2007-08-10 13:45:37
322.   Humma Kavula
319 His epitaph will be: he never sold out. He protected himself from ever selling out by having nothing to sell.
2007-08-10 13:46:36
323.   Scanman33
I just stumbled upon something interesting. Aside from Robb Nen, I don't see any Giants who were clients of Scott Boras during Colletti's time there. I wonder if there's something going on there, considering Zito came on board after Ned left.

If there is something there, it's probably going to take McCourt stepping in at some point and telling Ned he has to do business with Boras. He'll start to wonder why the Dodgers aren't in on a lot of the available quality players and have to tell Ned to swallow his pride.

2007-08-10 13:46:36
324.   Hallux Valgus
319 that's a shame- Joy Division, New Order, Happy Mondays... they were all Factory groups.

w/ regard to "cover" songs of the previous discussion. Otis Redding wrote and recorded the greatest feminism track ever- Respect, later recorded by Aretha Franklin.

2007-08-10 13:46:59
325.   paranoidandroid
Very few cover songs I prefer over the originals, but Elton John's "Pinball Wizard" has to be one for me.

I also like Social Distortion's version of the Man in Black's "Ring of Fire".

2007-08-10 13:47:05
326.   still bevens
322 I have respect for any man who writes out contracts in his own blood.
2007-08-10 13:48:27
327.   paranoidandroid
With Houlton down, do we go to Stults tomorrow if Lowe can't go? I imagine that would be the plan. Unless we go to Big Bird on short rest again...
2007-08-10 13:48:46
328.   jasonungar07
I would be inclined to just say Puljos for both answers. Thanks guys for answering.

I think a young guy who should be put in there with the Sizemore's and Reyes's of the world is Carl Crawford...(obviously for me, giving the nod to the SS spot)

2007-08-10 13:48:56
329.   Humma Kavula
326 24 Hour Party People should be required vieweing.
2007-08-10 13:49:25
330.   paranoidandroid
We'd have to make a roster move to get Stults up, I assume that would be Delwyn on the bubble when we need the 12th pitcher unless they DL Lowe.
2007-08-10 13:49:59
331.   Bluebleeder87
He'll start to wonder why the Dodgers aren't in on a lot of the available quality players and have to tell Ned to swallow his pride.

In my book those are bragging rights in Neds favor {323 }

2007-08-10 13:50:40
332.   D4P
323
I don't doubt that Ned doesn't like dealing with Boras. That being said, Boras clients probably didn't fit in well with Sabean's "Surround Bonds With (Mediocre) Veterans So We Can Win A World Series" gambit.
2007-08-10 13:50:40
333.   paranoidandroid
328
Do not overlook Matt Holiday. There are better defensive players and guys who have done it for more than a year or two, but he has to be one of the top ten in baseball if you were builiding a team.
2007-08-10 13:52:10
334.   Humma Kavula
331 I am not making a prediction or trying to be inflammatory when I say this:

Third place does not come with bragging rights.

2007-08-10 13:52:32
335.   overkill94
Two songs that really surprised me when I found out they were covers:

"Red, Red Wine" originally by Neil Diamond, made famous by UB40
"Hard to Handle" originally by Otis Redding, made famous by the Black Crowes

I love both versions of "Red, Red Wine" but I think the cover of "Hard to Handle" is much better than the original.

2007-08-10 13:52:52
336.   Bluebleeder87
Like somebody else mentioned I too would have loved seen D.Young in there again today.
2007-08-10 13:53:01
337.   Jon Weisman
317 - Yes, but the Who were huge for us.
2007-08-10 13:55:39
338.   D4P
335
I was surprised to learn that No Doubt's "It's My Life" was a cover. I also recently found out (I shouldn't have been surprised) that Rod Stewart's "Downtown Train" was a cover.
2007-08-10 13:55:47
339.   jasonungar07
333 strong call there on Holliday.

Jeeze and that Atkins fellow isn't to bad either

2007-08-10 13:56:25
340.   regfairfield
333 I think a good gauge is "would I trade player A for player B?" I think Holliday is a top 15 player, but I'd swap him for any of the previously mentioned guys.
2007-08-10 13:58:01
341.   Hallux Valgus
335 Hard To Handle is the only Otis song I accept as better than the original. The Grateful Dead also recorded a version.
2007-08-10 13:58:29
342.   Eric Enders
338 Chances are pretty good that if there's a really good song which you didn't realize was a cover, the original is by Tom Waits. Other examples in addition to "Downtown Train" include "Jersey Girl" and "Way Down in the Hole."
2007-08-10 13:59:09
343.   Bluebleeder87
334

how soon do we forget wern't we in 1st place for a good chunk of the season? plus there's still plenty of baseball left, sure Neds made some bonehead moves but most GM's go threw growing pains don't they.

2007-08-10 14:00:03
344.   ToyCannon
I have no problem not being in on Boras's players, but we did trade for Maddux last year so I think it is just coincidence at this point.
2007-08-10 14:00:34
345.   Eric Enders
341 I love Otis, but it's really hard to argue that Aretha Franklin's version of "Respect" isn't better.
2007-08-10 14:01:25
346.   jasonungar07
My vote, and yes it is popular goes to watchtower by Hendrix. And I am not even a Hendrix fan. I am a Dylan fan and it's the only Dylan cover for my money better than his orginal

(I know all covers are better of Dylan songs, he can't sing, yada yada, I get it-a pre-emptive I agree to disagree.)

My more obscure vote goes to Jane's Addiction with their back to back... Rock & Roll and Sympathy for the Devil off their first EP

2007-08-10 14:02:31
347.   ToyCannon
Hollidays splits don't scream star to me:
Career
Home - 1078 OPS
Away - 767

2007
Home - 1156
Away - 833

You be the judge.

2007-08-10 14:03:17
348.   Hallux Valgus
345 I've heard the live version (not live, but the recorded). I love Otis's raw energy. Aretha is too overproduced.

In fact, what I love most about Otis (an Otis is my favorite singer ever, along with Bill Withers), is his live, raw energy. It kills me, and all I've ever experienced is recordings.

2007-08-10 14:05:58
349.   paranoidandroid
340
Holiday and Hawpe are players to really watch. Not on the Pujols/Cabrera level yet, so I agree that I'd go with some others first. With the ARods out there, I can see putting Holiday in the top 15. Still quite a compliment I would think.

Brandan Phillips was impressive this week. Was he really a bad egg in Cleveland? He doesn't seem to be having the Milton Bradley issues in Cincy.

2007-08-10 14:07:01
350.   Eric Enders
346 The people who say Dylan's voice is lousy just don't know what they're talking about. I'll take expressiveness any day over a classically beautiful yet emotionally absent voice. You want the latter, go listen to Judy Collins or somebody.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-08-10 14:07:36
351.   Disabled List
Dodger Thoughts Classic today. Didn't we have the "that song was a cover???" discussion very recently?

I'll second my nomination for "Istanbul, Not Constantinople".

2007-08-10 14:08:28
352.   paranoidandroid
338
If you were into alternative music in the 80s and early 90s, you would have known "It's My Life". In fact, we used to call it college or progressive music back in the day.

Obscure cover that is great: Elvis Costello's "Indoor Fireworks". Anyone know who wrote it and sang it first? Hint: He produced a few Elvis LPs. Decent career on his own, but not on the E Costello level.

2007-08-10 14:09:07
353.   D4P
Chances are pretty good that if there's a really good song which you didn't realize was a cover, the original is by Tom Waits. Other examples in addition to "Downtown Train" include "Jersey Girl" and "Way Down in the Hole."

Yeah. I've noticed that. I only recently discovered Waits's "Jersey Girl" (which I really like) and didn't find out until later that it had been famously covered by The Boss. Norah Jones has a cover of "Long Way Home", which I also like.

2007-08-10 14:09:23
354.   paranoidandroid
351
I only know this as a "They Might be Giants" song. Who else sang a version?
2007-08-10 14:09:39
355.   Hallux Valgus
350 But you'll take Aretha over Otis Redding?!? Otis OWNS expressiveness.
2007-08-10 14:10:07
356.   ToyCannon
351
Yes, whenever D4P says he doesn't like covers we have this thread about why he's wrong.
2007-08-10 14:10:27
357.   regfairfield
349 I remember a story about how, either in his first day in the bigs or in the minors he signed his glove with "The Franchise".

That didn't go over so well.

2007-08-10 14:12:57
358.   Robert Daeley
"Tainted Love" -- one of the best covers ever.
2007-08-10 14:14:27
359.   trainwreck
I like the lineup for today.
2007-08-10 14:14:42
360.   Disabled List
354 It was a big band swing song from the 1950s, believe it or not, by a band called The Four Lads.

356 Just to clarify, I have no problem with Cover Song Thoughts. As I said in the last thread, my favorite is still "Pour Some Sugar On Me," by Stone Temple Pilots.

2007-08-10 14:15:37
361.   Marty
I can't believe ToyCannon who is as old as me or at least close, didn't know about the sunset riots and that For What it's Worth was about them. I can remember Lloyd Thaxton lip-syncing that song.
2007-08-10 14:16:13
362.   trainwreck
Robert Lodge on Rome Is Burning today, said, "John Daly goes through a six pack like Alyssa Milano goes through the Dodgers' clubhouse."
2007-08-10 14:18:50
363.   Eric Enders
The last time we did this covers thread I neglected to mention my pick for best cover of all time. It's a song that's already been discussed in this thread... "For What It's Worth." The Public Enemy version. Hard to argue with Hendrix's "Watchtower," though.

Some others that are outstanding:
Elvis, "Hound Dog"
The Other Elvis, "Peace Love and Understanding"
Patsy Cline, "Crazy"
Patti Smith, "Because the Night"
Rage Against the Machine, "Maggie's Farm" and "Ghost of Tom Joad"
Johnny Cash, "Hurt"
Johnny Cash, "Sunday Morning Coming Down"
Janis Joplin, "Me and Bobby McGee"
Willie Nelson, "Pancho and Lefty"
Aretha Franklin, "Respect" and "You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Woman"
Santana, "Oye Como Va"
Jenny Lewis w/ Bright Eyes & M. Ward, "Handle With Care"
Uncle Tupelo, "Moonshiner"

2007-08-10 14:20:43
364.   jasonungar07
Not saying it's the best but Elvis Costello's cover of the Amimals, Please don't let me be misunderstood is pretty cool..

35 Eric, I can't agree more. One listen to anything on Blood on the Tracks should shut people up. We seem to be on the same musical page.

(I have the Wilco show coming up soon, I can't wait)

2007-08-10 14:26:26
365.   Daniel Zappala
338 I was surprised to learn that No Doubt's "It's My Life" was a cover.

Obviously D4P is not a child of the 80s if he doesn't know about "Talk Talk".

Substance, by New Order, is one of the best albums of the 80s. I saw them perform with Echo and the Bunnymen when the toured in 1987.

2007-08-10 14:28:18
366.   Eric Enders
So, if I may sneak in a baseball comment, the apparently permanent move of Loney to the 3-hole seems to contradict the notion in the post up top that the Dodgers might be losing patience with him.
2007-08-10 14:28:37
367.   robohobo
Believe it or not, the first time I heard "Landslide" was The Smashing Pumpkins version. I still like it better than original Fleetwood Mac tune. Since then I have heard at least two other covers of that song on the radio.
2007-08-10 14:30:49
368.   robohobo
How 'bout the Dead's "Scarlet Begonias" covered by Sublime? Sublime had some nice reggae covers too. (What's my number, Rivers of Babylon,...)
2007-08-10 14:32:26
369.   paranoidandroid
363
I guess I'm a peasant when it comes to knowledge about musical orgins. I didn't know that "Hound Dog" and E Costello's "Peace" and Joplin "Me and Bobby" were covers.

I always thought "Respect" was Aretha's too.

I have been schooled.

BTW, the whole baseball thing, is San Diego really expecting a quality start from Ledezma? Can he really be an improvement over Bubba? Let their meltdown begin!

2007-08-10 14:32:44
370.   D4P
365
I didn't start listening to "rock" until around 1986-7.
2007-08-10 14:34:52
371.   Humma Kavula
The Smoking Popes, "Pure Imagination."
2007-08-10 14:35:14
372.   Bluebleeder87
Mike Ness (Social Distortion) version of - Don't Think Twice, It's All Right (Bob Dylan cover) is probably one of my favorite covers of all time.
2007-08-10 14:36:48
373.   Humma Kavula
The weird thing about "Me and Bobby McGee" is that I heard a story in which Kris Kristofferson said that the only reason he sold the song was that the buyer liked the twist that came at the end of the song when it was revealed that Bobby was a girl.

Then Janis covered it and reversed the sexes and it became a huge hit.

2007-08-10 14:38:13
374.   Marty
Me and Bobby McGee and Sunday Mornin Coming Down both written by the great Kris Kristofferson.
2007-08-10 14:38:18
375.   Humma Kavula
Which do y'all prefer: Randy Newman's version or Three Dog Night's version of "Mama Told Me Not to Come?"
2007-08-10 14:38:42
376.   weatherman
363 - Most of those cannot be considered true "covers" though since they are either country tunes or pre-Beatles rock songs. Obviously, there are exceptions, but in Country Music as well as early Pop Music, songs were written by songwriters and performed by singers. The singer/songwriter was not the norm until very recently. Even today, a lot of artists (Sheryl Crow, John Mayer, the Dixie Chicks, etc.) by full rights to songs or even to individual lines and claim them as their own.

Here's my point:

Cash - Hurt

Definitely a cover. NIN wrote and recorded and then he recorded a different version.

Cash - Sunday Morning Coming Down

Not a cover. Kris wrote it for Cash to sing and delivered it via helicopter to him personally. It's a Cash song, he just didn't write it.

2007-08-10 14:43:16
377.   weatherman
Ah there's a new post about our boy DJ.
2007-08-10 14:44:15
378.   ToyCannon
376
Great point, which is why I find the whole cover complaint bizarre. It is good for singers or bands to take a song and interpret it their own way.
2007-08-10 14:44:41
379.   Bluebleeder87
You know what, that TALK TALK song was a can't miss with girls in parties (to get them screaming) songs to note also:

Tones on Tail - GO!
The Cult - She sells Sactuary
AH-HA (SP) - Take On Me
OMD - Electricity

ps I can go on & on.

2007-08-10 14:45:51
380.   Jon Weisman
378 - The idea that someone else can't bring something new and good to an existing song seems antithetical to the entire purpose of music.

NPUT

2007-08-10 14:46:40
381.   ToyCannon
361
Believe it, based on the date I was living in Germany at the time. We lived a protected life on the base, and the only things that concerned me was playing baseball, reading about baseball, and roller skating.

My happy years all came to an end in 1968 when we came home to a very unhappy country and I ended up going to school in a very segrated area of town after having left all my friends in Germany who happened to be black. The racist policies of Alexandria, Virginia were appalling for a 10 year old but that story has been told before.

2007-08-10 14:51:39
382.   Marty
The way I heard it, Kristofferson landed his helicopter on Cash's yard and gave him tapes of a lot of his songs, not just Sunday Morning. Also, I think Ray Stevens recorded the first version of Sunday Morning Coming Down.

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