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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Who's Zooming Who?
2007-08-13 13:13
by Jon Weisman

The Tony Abreu Saga (recently upgraded from The Tony Abreu Situation, now that the major Dodger beat writers began addressing it in their notebooks almost simulatenously) is strange to say the least. As Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise reports, the Dodgers do not seem to believe that Abreu is really hurt, when he says he is.

Questions the Dodgers have regarding the severity of an abdomen injury to demoted infielder Tony Abreu have led the team to place the rookie on the temporary inactive list rather than the disabled list.

Abreu originally suffered the injury July 6 while attempting to field a bunt by Hanley Ramirez of the Florida Marlins. He returned to play in four more games before complaining of the abdomen again upon being optioned to Class AAA Las Vegas.

"It's slightly strained," Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti said Sunday. "Last time I saw, he was running from first to third in the big leagues."

That statement and the team's decision not to place Abreu on the disabled list illuminate the team's doubts about Abreu's injury.

Scott Boras, Abreu's agent, did not return a call for comment. … Abreu, who is still being paid his minor league salary, underwent a magnetic resonance imaging exam last week. It did not show signs of a sports hernia, the Dodgers said.

The argument is that Abreu is dogging it in the hopes of collecting major league salary even for the period he was demoted.

Despite a long conversation about this in the comments today, I still don't find the argument convincing.

There was never a reason for Abreu to think his July demotion would be permanent. With rosters expanding September 1, Abreu was guaranteed a recall then, if not sooner. And certainly, now that Wilson Betemit has been traded and Jeff Kent and Andy LaRoche have been stricken with nagging injuries, the team is practically crying out for a guy like Abreu. There's no way that the Dodgers want to be starting Ramon Martinez right now.

Abreu is losing major league salary right now that he could be earning if he were 100 percent.

Everyone acknowledges that Abreu was hurt in early July, and that he tried to make a go of it afterward but his play was subpar. Now which is more likely?

1) With LaRoche and Betemit heating up, Abreu tried to downplay the severity of his injury following July 6 so that he wouldn't lose playing time. After he was sent down, he lost his will to be stoic.

2) Abreu is faking an injury, a tactic that would kill his Dodger future.

I'm not saying I know whom to believe. I just don't know why we should take the Dodgers' word over Abreu's. The Dodgers are essentially basing the case on the fact that they can't figure out what's wrong with Abreu, so nothing must be wrong. Colletti's comment about seeing Abreu run from first to third a month ago is at best irrelevant, and at worse snarky, demeaning and wrongheaded. The Dodgers have anything but a spotless record in assessing the health of the players, and should be careful about throwing stones.

People have suggested that perhaps Boras is cutting off Abreu's nose (or abdomen) to spite the Dodgers' face. But again, it doesn't make sense that a bottom-line guy like Boras would actively seek to put a black mark on a client's career. The Dodgers will need a second baseman within 14 months, and Abreu could be that guy.

Or at least, he could have been. Now, Abreu will probably join the list that includes J.D. Drew and Luke Hochevar – ballplayers that ran afoul of the Dodgers' sensibilities and, for better or worse, were banished like Nicki from the compound.

For roughly $33,000, the Dodgers could have paid Abreu's salary for 15 days on the disabled list and then seen what happened. Instead, they have a tarred as a malingerer a player in whom they have invested years of development money and effort, diminishing his value to the team either as a future infielder or as trade bait.

If the Dodgers are right about this, great. But if they're right, it certainly is a strange tale – a lot stranger than a player who says he's hurt but can't figure out what's wrong.

* * *

The Dodgers have until Wednesday evening to sign draft pick Kyle Blair, a first-round talent that they nabbed in the fifth round because other teams feared they wouldn't be able to sign him. Supposedly, Blair does have a price he would give up his University of San Diego scholarship for – somewhere above $1 million.

If Blair's ceiling is the Dodger starting rotation, if they can essentially steal another first-round talent out of the 2007 draft, then they should not be haggling over low six-figures in money. Forgo the next middling reliever and give the money to Blair.

* * *

From Amy Dickinson's syndicated advice column, Dear Amy:

Dear Amy: My wife and I have a 2-year-old son who is my world.

I am a big Yankees fan and can't wait to take my son to games. My in-laws are way too smothering and involved with my son. My father-in-law micromanages every single decision that has to do with him.

I feel as if I am being undermined as a father. I also feel as if I have to rush to do specific things with him or my in-laws will accomplish these "firsts" in my absence (I work nights).

My wife is not a confrontational person, so she does nothing to address these issues. I have no problem expressing my feelings to my father-in-law, but I don't want to cause bad feelings.

The final straw was when my son came home from their house chanting, "Let's Go, Mets!" Although this sounds funny, I took it as a direct insult. They know that it would really bother me.

-- Not Just a Sperm Donor

Click the link for Amy's response. I have to say, my father-in-law is a Mets fan, but fortunately, he has not pushed an agenda.

* * *

My latest posting at's Fungoes starts with a big round of Rockies.

Comments (200)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-08-13 13:43:10
1.   Bob Timmermann
Dang it, I spent a chunk of my lunch hour writing this. And it's really not all that funny.

Top 10 things wrong with the Dodgers, from the home office

10. Team refuses to change name to Diamondbacks to take advantage of better record
9. Players disheartened by presence of Patrick O'Neal from Fox Sports because after watching "John from Cincinnati", they really don't want to hit on his wife anymore.
8. Ned Colletti keeps accusing Vin Scully of not being able to suck it up and announce games east of the Rockies
7. Grady Little can't find lineup card with #10 slot printed on it in order to hide poor hitters.
6. Rich Donnelly distracts too many runners on third with anecdotes about how once he forget what the steal sign was.
5. Derek Lowe can't get in touch with Bert Shepard to find out how to pitch with just one leg.
4. Nomar Garciaparra disappointed that Nike wouldn't give Mia and he Nike-branded baby clothes for the twins.
3. Team petition to move to NL Central denied by Commissioner Selig.
2. Failure to score enough runs.
1. Failure to win enough games.

2007-08-13 13:43:54
2.   Eric Enders
Got LATed, which I guess is what I get for spending 20 minutes writing one post:

297 The point I was making is not that ace-caliber pitchers are less likely to get hurt. It's just that, when they are unhurt, or when they come back from injury, they are still outstanding pitchers. Even Darren Dreifort, the most extreme example of an injured pitcher, still pitched significant innings over the course of his contract. The problem wasn't so much that he got hurt, but that when he did pitch, he didn't pitch well.

Somebody like Kevin Brown represents the worst-case scenario of such a contract. And what did the Dodgers get out of Brown's contract, in between all the injuries? They got 873 innings pitched with a 149 ERA+, plus Jeff Weaver and Yhency Brazoban. The Brown contract was a spectacular success for the Dodgers. And that's the worst-case scenario.

So let's say you sign somebody like Santana to a seven-year contract. It just isn't physically possible for him to be hurt for all seven of those years. Even in a worst-case scenario -- let's say he loses three of the seven years to injury -- you still have four years of an outstanding pitcher.

Further, I would say that the odds of Santana suffering a disastrous injury are fairly slim given his injury history. He's not immune from injury, but he ain't Kevin Brown or Jason Schmidt either. For one thing, he's a lot younger than those guys. You'd be signing him for his prime, not for his late thirties.

And I'll say it again: Ace pitchers in their late twenties simply do not suffer career-ending arm injuries anymore. They used to, but now they come back from injury and are still outstanding pitchers.

If you look at all the long-term deals signed by pitchers of Santana's caliber, you'll see that almost all of them paid off big-time. Maddux signing with the Braves in '92. Clemens' signing by Toronto in '97. Randy Johnson's signing with AZ in '99. Pedro's trade and simultaneous long-term signing with the Red Sox in '98. In every one of those cases, the pitcher's team won at least one World Championship during his contract (with Clemens getting traded to NY).

Just looking at everything that's happened in the past, plus looking at the specifics of Santana's case, it seems like it's about as low-risk, high-reward a scenario as a long-term deal gets.

2007-08-13 13:48:30
3.   Sam DC
1 It has its moments (Nomah!).

But you forgot to go back an fill in the site of the home office. I nominate Glasgow, Delaware.

2007-08-13 13:49:46
4.   Greg Brock
The home office should be Lebanon, Pennsylvania. That was always my favorite one.
2007-08-13 13:54:04
5.   Bob Timmermann
I assume Jon's headline is a tribute to his favorite episode of "Grey's Anatomy."
2007-08-13 14:02:09
6.   old dodger fan
5 Thanks for the follow up. I need to sign off for now but I appreciate the education. I always learn something when I come here.

I confess Dreifort came to mind during the conversation but because of his injury history before the contract I think we had some warning and Santana has not had that.

Ortiz gave some hints that something was wrong as well. While I think he was better than some here think his ERA rose 3 years in a row from 3.29 all the way up to 4.13, about 0.25 points per year, and his walks increased every year as well. Santana does not show any such trends.

I think it will be great fun this off season to see what happens with him. I actually fear him signing with someone in our division and having 6 great years far more than I do having him sign with us and be a bust. We can win carrying a $30 million non-performer more easily than we can win having him pitch like he does in SD or AZ and them eating our lunch.

Again, thanks for the conversation.

2007-08-13 14:02:16
7.   Icaros
I really hate when Colletti gets personally insulted by his players for no reason. He looks like such a whiny, helpless little fool.
2007-08-13 14:02:55
8.   old dodger fan
Post 6 should reference 2 not 5
2007-08-13 14:04:44
9.   ToyCannon
Thanks, that was a great explanation.
2007-08-13 14:05:29
10.   Robert Daeley
7 Dude, seriously -- hyperbole is bad enough, but where are you getting any of that story?
2007-08-13 14:08:23
11.   Sammy Maudlin
Happy 48th birthday Tom Niedenfuer! He pitched 5 scoreless innings in the 1981 World Series at the age of 22. He is often remembered for his pitching during the 1985 NLCS which was less than spectacular.
2007-08-13 14:10:08
12.   Greg Brock
11 Marty is not going to be happy with you.
2007-08-13 14:11:54
13.   ToyCannon
Sammy is right, Niedenfuer did much more then give up one gopher ball. What are we the RedSox where we can't forgive one play. It should not define his career.
2007-08-13 14:13:00
14.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
Referring to how "Amy" responded to the "Let's Go Mets" situation:

There will be absolutely nothing funny about either of my children ever, having been influenced by my in-laws, chanting "Let's go Gi-ants".

Should my kids choose their proximity to the team on their own, I will suffer with benevolence in my heart, but if it is due to undue influence of the in-laws, well... it ain't gonna be pretty.

2007-08-13 14:13:38
15.   Bob Timmermann
c^2 = a^2 + b^2
2007-08-13 14:14:50
16.   underdog
1 Nicely done, though I think #5 should just be "Derek Lowe just isn't hip enough."


I wish the Dodgers would just start winning again so we could all agree: winning makes everything better.

2007-08-13 14:16:22
17.   ToyCannon
Not having my wife around to ask, who is Patrick O'Neals wife?
2007-08-13 14:17:12
18.   Dodgers49
The following Q&A at

Mailbag: What's Little's status?

What can you tell me about James McDonald?

Would the Dodgers ever move Russell Martin back to third base to preserve his legs?

Would the Dodgers ever make a starter out of Jonathan Broxton?

Just how badly hurt is Derek Lowe?

2007-08-13 14:18:04
19.   Greg Brock
14 I had to buy my nephew a Niners football for his birthday because the boy's father is a fan. It hurt, but Mommies and Daddies get to choose that stuff. And it's serious business.
2007-08-13 14:18:33
20.   Bob Timmermann
Rebecca De Mornay
2007-08-13 14:19:28
21.   still bevens
What kind of record do we have to have to get the team to DL Lowe and Furcal? Under .500?
2007-08-13 14:21:01
22.   bryanf
2 Okay I'm sorry, I've been a commenter here for a while so I've trying to play it cool, but I just can't figure out what LAT means. Someone please enlighten me.

P.S. I was in Orange County yesterday when I crossed over a street named "Bison" and needless to say I thought of Matt Kemp and everyone here.

2007-08-13 14:22:31
23.   Icaros

Did you not pay attention to JD Drew-gate? Now he's openly questioning a player's honesty.

I know hyperbole may be your current favorite word, but you're using it wrong in this case, dude.

2007-08-13 14:22:57
24.   Penarol1916
14. I think that the equivalent would be "Let's Go Angels." I mean, it's not like the in-laws were teaching him to say, "Let's go Red Sox." My mother-in-law already turned my daughter into a Cubs fan, we'll see what happens with my sons, at least they are cheering for the right college basketball team.
2007-08-13 14:23:30
25.   ToyCannon
LAT is a poster who had the bad luck to always post something and then Jon would start a new thread and it came to be known as LAT'd when you were the last post on a thread.
2007-08-13 14:25:22
26.   Bob Timmermann
LATed - v. past tense and past participle
To add a comment to the end of a Dodger Thoughts thread only to find out that Jon Weisman has entered "new post up top" while the person was typing it.
(derivation: from the propensity of commenter LAT to have this happen to him.)
2007-08-13 14:25:40
27.   Jon Weisman
25 - Enders is giving LAT a run for his money.
2007-08-13 14:25:52
28.   bryanf
25 Thank you! It makes so much sense now. :)
2007-08-13 14:26:25
29.   MJW101
If Lowe has a torn hip he should have it operated on NOW. I do not think he is helping the team by pitching on one leg since we have lost everyone of his starts since his injury.
2007-08-13 14:27:47
30.   Marty
Who is Rebecca De Mornay's father is the more interesting question.
2007-08-13 14:28:40
31.   trainwreck
They just announced Felix Trinidad vs Roy Jones Jr. That would have been sweet 6 years ago.
2007-08-13 14:29:48
32.   ToyCannon
Two emotional reactions over one year and he's a whiny, helpless fool? He may very well be a fool but I don't see the whiny, helpless part. I thought his comment on Abreu was flippant, hardly whiny.
2007-08-13 14:30:59
33.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
30 Wally George!!!
2007-08-13 14:31:26
34.   Bob Timmermann
The 1947 Project is getting on board with the Talking Heads allusions:

2007-08-13 14:31:36
35.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
33 I'm so damn proud of myself of getting that in there first.
2007-08-13 14:31:42
36.   ryu
While we're at it, how did Kemp get the nickname "Bison?"
2007-08-13 14:32:08
37.   ToyCannon
Yeah, I remember when he was the toast of Orange County.
2007-08-13 14:34:08
38.   Icaros

When it becomes more of a scandal he'll start crying more about how selfish Abreu is. That way he won't get roasted for dealing him for Russ Ortiz.

2007-08-13 14:34:29
39.   Xeifrank
15. Where did that come from?
vr, Xei
2007-08-13 14:34:52
40.   Icaros
38 was hyperbole.
2007-08-13 14:35:24
41.   Bob Timmermann
I give you permission to trust Wikipedia in this case.
2007-08-13 14:35:37
42.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
36 Per wikipedia

Kemp's nickname is "The Bison." 1 During the second major league game of Kemp's career, on May 29, 2006, Kemp stole second base in the fourth inning, after which an Atlanta Braves television announcer Don Sutton said he looked "like a big buffalo running around the bases." The observation was appropriate due to Kemp's imposing size and surprisingly fast footspeed. The nickname was modified to "The Bison," the more proper term for the North American mammal to which the moniker refers."

2007-08-13 14:36:08
43.   Bob Timmermann
Equation for a hyperbola.
2007-08-13 14:36:32
44.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
41 curse those 14 seconds.
2007-08-13 14:40:15
45.   Xeifrank
43. Man, one math trivia question answered and you turn into a math geek! :)
vr, Xei
2007-08-13 14:40:15
46.   Robert Daeley
23 So you meant "He looks like such a whiny, helpless little fool." literally, then?
2007-08-13 14:43:06
47.   underdog
Icaros was recently tested for hyperbolic steroids but came away clean.
2007-08-13 14:46:31
48.   Icaros

Yes, I did. He's sitting here in my office being changed by a nurse as we speak.

2007-08-13 14:48:40
49.   SFRefugee
Now I'm going spend the next half hour reading suspect descriptions of bison, buffalo, water buffalo, gaur, oxen and other mammals of Asia....
2007-08-13 14:50:19
50.   trainwreck
Al Davis also gets that done at Icaros' office.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-08-13 14:52:23
51.   Gen3Blue
I think this D's Abreu thing is ridiculous and will resolve into nothing. If he is healthy he will be up soon and if he is not he won't. Of course there is the disturbing Boras connection, but I can't believe it has any significance at this level.

Please tell me Blair's agent is not Boras.

2007-08-13 14:52:58
52.   Icaros

There're some good nurses here if you're into islanders (like I am).

2007-08-13 14:53:38
53.   Xeifrank
Time magazine article that says baseball umpires have a racial bias and call more strikes when the pitcher is of the same race. The study looks a little statistically challenged to me.
SFW link to the article:
vr, Xei
2007-08-13 14:55:00
54.   overkill94
The thing with the Abreu situation is that while he may have a legitimate beef with management, it behooves him to get back to work when he does feel healthy instead of sticking it to the Dodgers by continuing to sit out of principle. No one wants the stigma of being a non-team player that early in their career.
2007-08-13 14:57:59
55.   trainwreck
Maybe this is why many think Matt Kemp is getting screwed.

Or maybe not.

2007-08-13 15:00:54
56.   ryu
41 42

Thanks! I usually check Wikipedia and Google first, but for some reason didn't do that before asking the question here. Of course right after I pressed "submit," I remembered Wikipedia.

2007-08-13 15:01:50
57.   Icaros


2007-08-13 15:03:37
58.   Hallux Valgus
A Brazil/ US soccer game was just announced for Sept. 9 in Chicago. It replaces yet another clash with Mexico.
2007-08-13 15:05:17
59.   trainwreck
Are you ready for the new Street Fighter movie?
2007-08-13 15:06:53
60.   Bob Timmermann
From the article that xeifrank linked:

"Interestingly enough, Hamermesh's research found that the race of the batter didn't seem to matter — the correlation was only between the pitcher and the home-plate ump."

(Bolding mine)

2007-08-13 15:08:58
61.   Icaros

Didn't know there was one. I definitely avoided the first.

Not much into action movies these days.

2007-08-13 15:10:09
62.   ryu
57 Shoryuken!

59 New Street Fighter movie?! When? Where? How?

2007-08-13 15:12:42
63.   underdog
58 Oooooh! Even if (when) the US gets stomped, it'll still be a great game to have here in the States. And who knows, if they actually play their A-team instead of their B or C squad, they could keep it relatively close. Will be fun to watch on TV, anyway.
2007-08-13 15:13:59
64.   Humma Kavula
From Xei's link:

It's a significant disadvantage for Asian pitchers because the MLB doesn't have any Asian umpires.


2007-08-13 15:15:05
65.   xaphor
61 . One of the few fans to be enjoying the Dodgers current run of form then.

53 . So they are implying that the introduction of the QuesTec system forced white umps to begrudgingly call one close strike per game they would have otherwise given as a ball in a hostile attempt to keep the black man down.

Not seeing it myself.

2007-08-13 15:16:07
66.   trainwreck
It is centered around Chun Li and probably will not be anything like the first.
2007-08-13 15:16:14
67.   Hallux Valgus
63 Especially because Brazil probably won't bring over their Euros (I can't imagine, say, Kaka passing on the Copa America but playing in a friendly). I'm just happy not to watch another Mexico glorified street fight.
2007-08-13 15:16:36
68.   trainwreck
Coming out in 2008.
2007-08-13 15:18:14
69.   fan 4 40 plus
43 the former math teacher in me forces me to say... Ax^2 + Bxy + Cy^2 + Dx + Ey + F = 0
is the equation for a hyperbola.
2007-08-13 15:21:37
70.   xaphor
67 . It is a scheduled weekend off for international fixtures so you might see some of Brazil's elite if they're up for a trip across the pond.
2007-08-13 15:23:03
71.   ryu
68 Oooh, so exciting....
2007-08-13 15:23:11
72.   Greg Brock
67 Yes, but there is a special joy in beating Mexico (over and over) and then going to read the Spanish-language soccer forums. An entire fanbase consisting of people who know El Tri is better. I especially like it when their coaches say we play "like old women."

The excuses are so much fun!

2007-08-13 15:38:19
73.   Icaros
If Charmane Star plays Chun Li I'm there.
2007-08-13 15:41:06
74.   Dodgers49
Stats don't support D-Backs' surge to top

>> If you've been thinking, "how are they doing it?", you're not alone. For certain, their numbers don't point to a 15-games-over-.500 record — particularly their deficit in runs scored (480) to runs allowed (510). But the D-Backs keep finding ways to win the close ones. <<

2007-08-13 15:43:34
75.   overkill94
69 Or, more simply

(x - A)^2 * (y - B)^2 = C

it's the same equation as yours, but it makes it easier to graph by telling you where the starting point is (can't remember the technical name).

2007-08-13 15:44:22
76.   xaphor
73 .
2007-08-13 15:44:34
77.   trainwreck
2007-08-13 15:47:50
78.   trainwreck
I can't imagine what Dhalsim is like in that.
2007-08-13 15:47:58
79.   Jon Weisman
73 - ... and hundreds of readers discover NSFG (not safe for googling).
2007-08-13 15:49:28
80.   silverwidow
The lineup is taking longer than usual to be released. I hope it's because they're finalizing the roster move we all want to see (Meloan).
2007-08-13 15:52:29
81.   Jon Weisman
Tony Jackson mood report: partly sunny.
2007-08-13 15:53:47
82.   Icaros

Sorry. She does have a safe wikipedia page, I believe.

2007-08-13 15:58:23
83.   Jon Weisman
79 - I was more amused than anything.
2007-08-13 15:58:34
84.   Dodgers49
What's wrong with Gagne?

>> If you are still waiting to see the "Game Over" Gagne, vintage 2002-04, you can stop now. It's not happening. <<

2007-08-13 15:58:41
85.   Jon Weisman
83 - was for 82.
2007-08-13 16:00:26
86.   Icaros
What color would Tony Jackson be if he were a mood ring?
2007-08-13 16:05:09
87.   blue22
Happy Lefthanders Day to the enlightened 10%.
2007-08-13 16:06:14
88.   TheDictator
Great post of the Dear Amy.

It reminded me of my favorite in-law joke.

What is the difference between outlaws and in-laws?

Outlaws are wanted! :-)

2007-08-13 16:09:04
89.   Telemachos
81 LOL. Didn't realize "partly sunny" should be taken literally.
2007-08-13 16:09:17
90.   Bob Timmermann
The Giants have now lost consecutive complete games to the Pirates and have the worst record in the NL.
2007-08-13 16:14:44
91.   Jon Weisman
From tonight's press notes:

A LITTLE HELP, PLEASE – Chad Billinsgley has lost back-to-back games by a score of 1-0, becoming the first to suffer that fate in Los Angeles Dodger history, according to research by Bob Timmermann using's Retrosheet database. The only other close call was Don Drysdale, who started consecutive 1-0 losses but did not get a decision in the second when Ron Perranoski took the loss in extra innings. Three L.A. Dodgers have won back-to-back 1-0 games – Orel Hershiser and Drysdale during their record-setting streaks in 1988 and 1968 and Johnny Podres in 1963.

2007-08-13 16:14:51
92.   Gen3Blue
69 The former math student in me hopes you don't need more than 3 variables to describe a hyperbola. Do the others locate it in space? And Hyperbole is all around in the media cover of the space shuttles balony and the poor six miners, who are likely toast.
2007-08-13 16:16:20
93.   Bob Timmermann
The best part of that was the spelling!
2007-08-13 16:16:59
94.   PDH5204
73 She's literally a dime a dozen in the PI. Otherwise, she appears to suffer from a tragically low self-esteem [hence her self-professed need for all this "love"].
2007-08-13 16:18:19
95.   Branch Rickey
Bob makes the game notes! Congratulations.
Of course, you should probably be writing the game notes every night. Your research outdoes the Dodgers own by a fair margin.
2007-08-13 16:20:27
96.   blue22
93 - You mean Chad Billinsgley?

Or that they got Timmermann right?

2007-08-13 16:21:02
97.   Bob Timmermann
Nah, there would be way too many references to catcher's interference, sacrifice flies, and runners left on base.
2007-08-13 16:21:11
98.   bigcpa
There we go...

Furcal, SS
Martin, C
Loney, 1B
Kent, 2B
Gonzo, LF
Nomar, 3B
Pierre, CF
Ethier, RF
Billingsley, P

2007-08-13 16:23:44
99.   Bob Timmermann
Serenity now!
2007-08-13 16:24:26
100.   King of the Hobos
92 A hyperbola is a 2-D thing, so it only has 2 variables. The other letters are constants that all mean various things ultimately, but I don't want to remember what they are. Right?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-08-13 16:25:56
101.   Linkmeister
Do I correctly understand the usage of "zoom" to be a synonym for "con?"

If so, what's the origin of the usage?

Think of me if Flossie shows up.

2007-08-13 16:26:01
102.   Bob Timmermann
Note to self: go beyond first hit on Google to find equation of hyperbola.
2007-08-13 16:26:47
103.   King of the Hobos
100 cont. A hyperboloid however has 3 variables. I hate drawing those things.
2007-08-13 16:26:51
104.   trainwreck
Grady needs to check Gonzalez's stats some more.
2007-08-13 16:27:03
105.   ryu
79 82 LOL

I'm at work, and good thing I had a hunch it was NSFG. Her Wikipedia page indeed is safe.

BTW, I believe Kylie Minogue was in the first Street Fighter movie. She played Cammy.

2007-08-13 16:29:11
106.   PDH5204
Sorry to once again ask the redundant, but why is Ethier still hitting 8th?
2007-08-13 16:32:54
107.   Bob Timmermann
If Pierre batted 8th, it would be like the old days when David Ross or Dioner Navarro batted 8th.
2007-08-13 16:33:35
108.   trainwreck
You are correct.

Now who wants to go home? And who wants to go with me?!!

2007-08-13 16:33:44
109.   Bluebleeder87

He is one of our hotter hitters I don't understand either, Pierre needs to bat 8th if anything.

2007-08-13 16:34:13
110.   Telemachos
104 Oswalt is a Tough Veteran Righty. Therefore, you need a Tough Veteran Lefty at the plate, not a Struggling Rookie.
2007-08-13 16:35:32
111.   blue22
Or the old "Cora-Izturis-Pitcher-Roberts" wrap-around the '03 juggernaut featured.

You confuse the other team's manager by putting good hitters in a slot where they will get less at-bats.

2007-08-13 16:35:36
112.   Indiana Jon
106 Not sure. Why does Kemp continue to bat 10th?
2007-08-13 16:37:03
113.   bigcpa
I've updated my list of stereotypes for each lineup position to reflect the new order:

#1 Highest OBP/fast guy
#2 contact hitter
#3 best all around hitter
#4 best power hitter
#5 second best power hitter
#6 hits from opposite side as #5 guy
#7 worst hitter on team but placed here to avoid excessive punishment of 8 hole
#8 low seniority guy regardless of performance

2007-08-13 16:44:50
114.   Marty
87 They have a day for lefthanders? Who here besides me is a southpaw?
2007-08-13 16:45:40
115.   regfairfield
114 One here.
2007-08-13 16:46:01
116.   Bob Timmermann
In real life, you may know me as Mark Hendrickson.
2007-08-13 16:46:19
117.   Marty
At one point a couple years ago, 2/3 (8 of 12) of the people on my staff were lefties.
2007-08-13 16:46:30
118.   Indiana Jon
114 Batting or throwing?
2007-08-13 16:47:20
119.   Marty
Throwing. I'm one of those throw left, bat right oddities.
2007-08-13 16:47:22
120.   natepurcell
Lefty right here!
2007-08-13 16:48:01
121.   blue22
114 - Yo! I was assuming this place would be teeming with lefties. Not sure why, but it seems like there would be a higher proportion to the average on this site. And no, I'd never heard of it before I saw it on Deadspin today.
2007-08-13 16:48:20
122.   Linkmeister
Before the Current Occupant, as Garrison Keillor calls him, the last three Presidents of the United States were lefthanded.
2007-08-13 16:48:54
123.   Indiana Jon
Do they have a special day for us righthanders? This may be reverse discrimination.
2007-08-13 16:50:03
124.   Telemachos
As a right-handed white male, I'm definitely feeling discriminated against.
2007-08-13 16:50:08
125.   Marty
123 Your special days are after the lefties die since righties seem to live longer.
2007-08-13 16:50:32
126.   Bob Timmermann
Just like Rickey Henderson!
And Hal Chase!
2007-08-13 16:50:40
127.   Kevin Lewis
What if we batted Ethier 9th?
2007-08-13 16:51:04
128.   WillieD
98 Whatever happened to Young in left field? 4 hits and he's out of the lineup? Maybe he actually did hurt himself a bit in that 4 hit game? Not that we need his offense or anything. ;-)
2007-08-13 16:51:56
129.   blue22
126 - And "Old friend" Cody Ross!
2007-08-13 16:52:37
130.   Bob Timmermann
Josh Phelps starting behind the plate for the Bucs in the nightcap. His first start behind the dish since 2001. He did fill in at catcher for a few innings for the Yankees in one game this year.
2007-08-13 16:53:30
131.   Indiana Jon
124 That makes two of us. I also have no piercings, tattoos, abnormal sexual orientation, disability, GED, etc. To top it all off, I've never even had my uninsured or underinsured property destroyed by a natural disaster. There has to be a day out there for us somewhere.
2007-08-13 16:53:46
132.   scareduck
I am a big Yankees fan

This qualifies as child abuse.

2007-08-13 16:54:22
133.   Bob Timmermann
There has to be a day out there for us somewhere.

They're called "Sunday through Saturday"

2007-08-13 16:55:00
134.   Bluebleeder87
114 ,115 ,116 ,120 ever since I dislocated my left shoulder (sliding into 2nd) a while back I'm scared of throwing the ball left handed, so I'm strictly a righty now.
2007-08-13 16:55:09
135.   Jon Weisman
119 - So is my brother.
2007-08-13 16:55:41
136.   Indiana Jon
132 Very funny.

133 Glad I have you to keep me grounded Bob, thanks.

2007-08-13 16:56:22
137.   Marty
For some reason, the first time I ever picked up a bat, I swung (swang? swinged?) it right-handed. It felt perfectly natural. I tried a bit in Pony League to switch hit but that didn't last long. I hit left-handed one time in a real game and struck out on 3 pitches.
2007-08-13 16:56:29
138.   overkill94
Finally someone gets it! Betemit's at-bat song for the Yankees is "Better Man" by Pearl Jam.

Sorry if this was already mentioned, I wasn't around a lot after the trade line and this is the first Yankee game I've seen.

2007-08-13 16:57:24
139.   overkill94
138 and of course he hits another homer
2007-08-13 16:58:07
140.   Jon Weisman
Two-run HR by Betemit.
2007-08-13 16:58:44
141.   Greg Brock
Marty's a bat right/throw left guy.

Poor Marty. Guy never even had a chance.

2007-08-13 16:58:47
142.   Indiana Jon
Why is it that left handers swinging right handed is so much more common in golf than baseball? I think it used to be about the availability of left handed clubs, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. They are readily available.
2007-08-13 16:59:04
143.   Jon Weisman
My brother was a natural righty who started out throwing left because that's my Dad was a lefty, and my brother thought he should do it that way too. So I'm told.
2007-08-13 17:01:56
144.   regfairfield
Current standings in the Proctor deal:

Proctor: 3.2 VORP
Betemit: 1.2

That bomb might bring him a bit closer.

2007-08-13 17:02:01
145.   Marty
141 I was also a pitcher. So, I had a better chance. If I'd like had some talent.
2007-08-13 17:03:00
146.   Bob Timmermann
A lot of people have differences between what they can do with their small muscles (for writing) and large muscles (for sports).

Hal Chase supposedly batted right-handed even though he was a lefty because he didn't want people laughing at him for batting from the wrong side.

I found that theory less than compelling.

2007-08-13 17:05:23
147.   xaphor
137 . I'm rightly all the way, but I prefer to kick with my left. Not sure if this means anything except for a subconscious attempt to exploit England's stable of crap left wingers. Darn bum knee. Oh what could have been. :)
2007-08-13 17:08:55
148.   Marty
Dread Pirate Robert: Then why are you smiling?
Inigo Montoya: Because I know something you don't know.
Dread Pirate Robert: And what is that?
Inigo Montoya: I... am not left-handed.
Dread Pirate Robert: You are amazing.
Inigo Montoya: I ought to be, after 20 years.
Dread Pirate Robert: Oh, there's something I ought to tell you.
Inigo Montoya: Tell me.
Dread Pirate Robert: I'm not left-handed either
2007-08-13 17:11:53
149.   King of the Hobos
I pitch left handed, assuming "pitch" means throwing 10 mph eephus pitches nowhere near the plate.

As a righty I can get it up to 15! It should be noted I don't pitch (or play baseball at all, ever).

2007-08-13 17:12:38
150.   Bob Timmermann
I've cracked 45 on the radar gun.

I think my arm almost fell off after that.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-08-13 17:15:57
151.   Marty
I threw pretty hard as a kid, but have no idea about the actual mph. Half-way decent curve too. My big problem was I hated throwing to left-handed hitters because I was afraid of hitting them. I don't think I was cracked up to be a major league player.
2007-08-13 17:21:56
152.   ucladodger
Interesting numbers. After Kemp was benched after missing that fly ball agains the Mets he has gone 3-35 with 0 RBI 14 k's and 1 BB. After that game he did not start for 3 days, while pinch hitting a few times.
The 7 days before his benching he was 13-27 with 3 HR, 2 triples, 10 RBI, 4 K, and 2 BB. I dont think the change in performance in coincidental.
2007-08-13 17:23:23
153.   Hallux Valgus
I'm a lefty, but bat righty. When I started playing baseball, I batted left handed, but did so cross handed, and the coach thought it was easier to just turn me around. I played catcher because the coach's son was a left handed catcher, and we only hand the one set of gear.

I also golf and play hockey righty, pretty much because it was easier to find equipment.

2007-08-13 17:24:11
154.   Bob Timmermann
In field hockey, you are not allowed to play left-handed. All the sticks are made for right-handers.
2007-08-13 17:28:39
155.   Jon Weisman
"Los Angeles Lakers guard Derek Fisher will throw out the ceremonial first pitch at Dodger Stadium before the game tomorrow against the Houston Astros at 7:10 p.m."
2007-08-13 17:31:12
156.   Zak
152 If that's not a coincidence, then it says more about Kemp than about anybody else.

For the record, I do think it's unrelated. Slumps happen... he's certainly not the only Dodger in one.

2007-08-13 17:32:53
157.   Robert Daeley
155 Does that mean Tuesday night, Jon?
2007-08-13 17:34:36
158.   Jon Weisman
155 - Yes.
2007-08-13 17:35:23
159.   El Lay Dave
I had a friend who did everything right-handed except for one thing: shooting pool. Unfortunately, I lost touch with him before he was old enough to use that to good hustling advantage.

Right-handed, but fiddled with switch-hitting in the cage. Limitations were reached more quickly left-handed. I am, however, an ambidextrous typist.

2007-08-13 17:36:39
160.   Icaros

Aren't you also required to be female to play that sport?

2007-08-13 17:37:07
161.   Jon Weisman
From the Giants mailbag at (questions answered by Chris Haft):

All the talk about "Bonds should break the [home run] record in San Francisco and it can't happen in Los Angeles" got me thinking. L.A. fans, as much as I hate them and their Dodgers, have a love and an appreciation for the game, too. The memory I want to verify is Willie McCovey's last at-bat. I want to say it was 1980 and Jack Clark scored on a sacrifice fly in L.A. The Dodgers crowd gave "Stretch" a standing ovation. To this day, I am still shocked, but have great (regard) for the respect they showed that day.
-- David S., Ukiah, Calif.

Your memory is sharp. confirms it. Batting for Rennie Stennett in the eighth inning at Dodger Stadium on July 6, 1980, Willie Mac broke a 3-3 tie with a sacrifice fly. The Giants won it in 10 innings, 7-4. The box score said nothing about the standing O, but I recall it vividly.

2007-08-13 17:37:08
162.   ucladodger

I dont think its a coincidence it all. I really think it relates to his swing. He is a rhythm swinger with complicated mechanics. He needs reps to keep his timing right. Sitting and getting one AB a game and starting 2 games a week kills any type of timing and rhythm. Add on to that he is a young player likely pressing in his limited AB's and you get a huge slump.

2007-08-13 17:37:29
163.   overkill94
I dialed it up to 79 mph at a Dodger spring training game this year. Warming up probably would have helped considering my arm was all tingly for a while afterwards. I did win a Dodgers frisbee for guessing the right speed though!
2007-08-13 17:37:54
164.   Indiana Jon
152 I think that may have more to do with the inconsistent playing time he gets since then. It has to be hard for a 22 year old kid thats played every day his whole life to suddenly be playing 2 games a week plus pinch hitting once in a while. It probably would have been better for him to spend the last few weeks in Vegas, then come back up and sit on bench while a guy old enough to be his dad attempts to play left field.
2007-08-13 17:38:29
165.   Bluebleeder87
Billingsleys last 2 1-0 losses is very indicative of our offensive woes.
2007-08-13 17:39:28
166.   Gagne55
165 If you want to rub it in, check out Bronx Banter's posts 80-84.
2007-08-13 17:40:04
167.   ToyCannon
I don't think a simple "Two-run HR by Betemit" will suffice.

With all due respect to Bhsportsguy, Underdog, and Zappala

Boom Boom goes the Betemit

Thank God we have Ramon Martinez to spell Nomar and Kent. Who needs a guy who hits homers at a greater rate then anyone on the team the way this team is piling up the runs.

[Broken Record]

2007-08-13 17:41:08
168.   Bluebleeder87
ambidextrous typist.

same here, be honest did you have to look that word up? :o)

2007-08-13 17:41:57
169.   Bob Timmermann
The LA Times story about the July 6, 1980 game, written by Richard Hoffer, mentions no standing ovation by the Dodgers fans.

McCovey was gone before the reporters could interview him after the game. Mike Scioscia hit his first career home run in that game.

2007-08-13 17:42:36
170.   El Lay Dave
18 29 The answer to the Lowe question is interesting.

[Lowe is] pitching in occasional pain because of a hip injury that is believed to be a torn labrum and might require surgery unless he intends to pitch in pain the rest of his career.... The operation -- which involves repairing the labral tear and trimming the neck of the femur -- requires a five-month recovery, including the first month on crutches.

Pitchers and catchers report in what, mid-February? Five months earlier is mid-September.

2007-08-13 17:45:05
171.   El Lay Dave
168 Not the first one, but I did check to see if "typist" was still allowed to describe the act of using a keyboard to input text to a computer.
2007-08-13 17:45:18
172.   Bob Timmermann
I didn't think a Red Sox-Devil Rays game would be so interesting.
2007-08-13 17:45:24
173.   scareduck
Bob, regarding the consecutive 1-0 shutout by a Dodger pitcher, how did you figure this out on B-Ref?
2007-08-13 17:45:52
174.   Icaros
Yeah, Lowe should just call it a season and have surgery. He's not helping, and he's just going to end up hurting it worse, or hurting something else along with it.

Didn't Kevin Brown make the same mistake at the end of one of those miserable seasons?

2007-08-13 17:48:11
175.   Bob Timmermann
I cranked out a list of 1-0 games lost by the Dodgers and then just looked for games that were 4-5 days apart.

It's not a big list.

2007-08-13 17:48:13
176.   bhsportsguy
167 That's great that Wilson hit another homer, I hope he hits one every game he plays.

He wasn't going to play here. Maybe its my problem that I tend to view things as they are not what I would wish them to be, I know that takes the fun out of sports but I can't seem to escape that viewpoint.

I've said Wilson didn't get a fair shot, his fate was sealed when Grady chose Loney over him and moved Nomar to third base.

But if everytime Wilson hits a homer or Jackson has a good game, I am going to be reminded of it, I guess that's the price I pay.

BTW, I did note when I looked at his stats that in 17 plate appearances prior to his home run, he also walked just once and struck out 5 times and that he had 0 fors in his last two games. Again, I never expected him to drop off the face of the earth so good for Wilson, may he win a World title in NYC.

2007-08-13 17:48:35
177.   Icaros

Like the subtlety there.

2007-08-13 17:50:21
178.   Telemachos
Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more, say no more.
2007-08-13 17:51:02
179.   Bluebleeder87
when I'm well rested I can dial it up to 80-82 but when I pitch every sunday i'm more around 78-80 (maybe less maybe more i'm not sure) I exercise a bunch to keep that up or else I'd probably throw about 70-75 or something like that.
2007-08-13 17:51:05
180.   Bob Timmermann
Well, it's not interesting anymore. Time to make the long drive to Dodger Stadium.
2007-08-13 17:51:34
181.   El Lay Dave
169 Fred Claire says the standing ovation for McCovey happened.

2007-08-13 17:56:18
182.   Bluebleeder87

the Russell Martin question had a splash/sprinkles of hyperbole in my opinion but he sure is a dandy.

2007-08-13 18:02:36
183.   Icaros

It's (hyperbole) been going around today. I caught it for about an hour, myself, but I'm feeling better now.

2007-08-13 18:05:32
184.   El Lay Dave
In Fungoes, Tim Harikkala's start for the Rockies - followed by a DFA - is mentioned. His last start in the majors was just over 11 years ago! (Babe Ruth only went nine years between starts, 1921 and 1930.)
2007-08-13 18:17:53
185.   Bluebleeder87

aren't you like 10 minutes away from Dodger Stadium Bob? your driving from work right. maybe my sarcasm batteries are running low.

2007-08-13 18:36:23
186.   Bob Timmermann
I doubt the standing ovation for McCovey was from a lot of people.
2007-08-13 18:36:25
187.   El Lay Dave
Wilson Betemit now out for a defensive replacement in the Yankee game: 3 PAs, 1 BB, 1 K, 1 two-run homer, three true outcomes.
2007-08-13 18:38:24
188.   King of the Hobos
Hillenbrand's not in the lineup for Vegas, and Gameday doesn't list him on the bench either. So he was either released, or his double and homer yesterday convinced the Dodgers to call him up. Meloan's still in Vegas though.
2007-08-13 18:44:49
189.   Bluebleeder87
per THINK BLUE T.V. Mark Hendrickson was demoted back to the pen & either a minor leaguer will start on friday or a trade will happen.
2007-08-13 18:45:39
190.   El Lay Dave
When it's time to say goodbye to the game they love to play, it's never easy for the greats. McCovey, giving in to the realities of his weakening knees, announced his retirement on June 22, 1980. He pointed to Sunday, July 6 in Los Angeles as his last game. With 46,244 on hand that day, McCovey got a standing ovation and hit a pinch-hit sac fly in the eighth to give the Giants a 4 to 3 lead.

From this blog, which claims to have "conducted microfilm research of the San Francisco Chronicle." :

¿Quién sabe?

2007-08-13 18:48:01
191.   El Lay Dave
190 is in reply to 186 , as if there were any doubt.
2007-08-13 18:49:12
192.   El Lay Dave
188 He's not on the 51s roster on, though Chad Moeller is.
2007-08-13 18:49:46
193.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
189 uh oh. Contreras just cleared waivers.
2007-08-13 18:50:09
194.   natepurcell

starts James McDonald!

2007-08-13 18:54:17
195.   overkill94
193 Contreras could be had for a bag of peanuts these days, but we'd still be on the hook for his hefty contract. Is there any indication that he could return to last year's form?
2007-08-13 18:56:16
196.   Bob Timmermann
I'm sure some fans gave McCovey an ovation. But I doubt the crowd rose as one because they respcted McCovey so much. That's ascribing a lot of sophistication to Dodger fans.
2007-08-13 18:58:05
197.   Jon Weisman
Game thread is open.
2007-08-13 18:59:30
198.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
195 I'm sure the White Sox would cover part of that contract, since it means they don't have to pay the whole thing. Problem is: he's signed through 2009 and is owed 22 million, so even paying part of that would not be cheap.
2007-08-13 19:01:51
199.   El Lay Dave
196 It was twenty-seven years ago. Perhaps I am seeing the past through rose-colored glasses, but the fans had more respect for the the opposition then. You could also still hear Vin Scully's voice from all the transistor radios, even if you didn't have one. That was a unifying factor also.
2007-08-14 05:19:09
200.   Yu-Hsing Chen
speaking of Wilson Betemit, the Yankees thank you for your hospitality ;)

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