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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Reports: Dodgers Sign David Wells
2007-08-23 17:11
by Jon Weisman

Here is the newest Dodger's 2007 gamelog, if unsourced reports from Buster Olney of and Tony Jackson of the Daily News fruitionize.

In 11 games from May 15 to July 16, Wells pitched fewer than five innings once and allowed more than three runs once. In four subsequent starts before the Padres shed him, he allowed 26 runs in 16 2/3 innings. Guess the Dodgers are hoping inactivity is just what the Boomer ordered.

Update: A full list of over-40 Dodgers comes courtesy of Wells, at age 44 and three months, would make the top 10:

1) Hoyt Wilhelm (49 and 11 1/2 months in final game as a Dodger)
2) Jack Quinn (49, give or take a couple of months)
3) Jesse Orosco (45 and 5 months)
4) Rickey Henderson (44 and 8 3/4 months)
5) Manny Mota (44 and 6 1/2 months)
6) Dazzy Vance (44 and 5 1/2 months)
7) Vic Davalillo (44 and 2 1/4 months)
8) Clyde Sukeforth (43 and 6 1/4 months)
9) Don Sutton (43 and 4 1/4 months)
10) Johnny Cooney (43 and 3 months)

At 42 and nine months, Roberto Hernandez is 11th.

Comments (279)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-08-23 17:22:31
1.   silverwidow
This got LAT'd...

I still think someone will be DFA'd. Here's why:

We only have a certain amount of 60-day DL spots to play around with to open spots on the roster (Schmidt was placed on it to create room for Hillenbrand). We will need at least three come September 1 (Meloan, Hu, and a 3rd string catcher).

I suppose Repko and Brazoban could be 60-day DLers. Maybe Tsao or Kuo. But who else? We need those spots, so somebody will be gone, I'd say.

2007-08-23 17:23:52
2.   Disabled List
Just what the pitching staff needed, another Brett Tomko.
2007-08-23 17:24:20
3.   underdog
"fruitionze"? Is that Italian? I like that.

From previous thread, paraphrasing myself:

Hamulack is still on the roster?! My word, there's your roster spot right there!

2007-08-23 17:24:22
4.   GoBears
Gawd, this is depressing. There is a small, hopefully temporary, part of me that just wants Colletti to stop teasing us, and trade away the kids, so that I can go become a DBax fan.

It's like Chinese water torture having this genius run my favorite team.

Maybe he'll surprise us and have Wells pitch once against the southpaw-fearin' Mets and then put him back out to pasture. The ultimate "spot starter."

But I doubt it.

2007-08-23 17:24:36
5.   Marty
This is better for this thread.

I loath Wells and threatened earlier to join the Shimmin/Dbacks Marching and Chowder Society if he was signed. Well, I'm a man of my word.


2007-08-23 17:24:57
6.   El Lay Dave
I'm 2 1/2 years older than Wells. At our age, sometimes a three-week vacation from work is just we need to bring our productivity back up. But my job isn't physically debilitating.
2007-08-23 17:25:54
7.   Marty
If I took a 3 week vacation, I may not be able to find my way to work again. Hopefully, it's the same with Wells.
2007-08-23 17:27:04
8.   Icaros
At least we didn't have to trade Matt Kemp for him.
2007-08-23 17:27:14
9.   El Lay Dave
2 Except that Wells has actually been good for extended periods of time, and had approximately league-average or slightly better ERA+ the last couple season.
2007-08-23 17:27:34
10.   Bluebleeder87

if Tomko doesn't pitch his little hart out who else would it be?

2007-08-23 17:27:49
11.   Jim Hitchcock
5 Marty, drink a glass of Arizona Green Tea and chill, dude! :)
2007-08-23 17:28:48
12.   Yu-Hsing Chen
have fun with Boomer's near 7 ERA on the road....
2007-08-23 17:29:44
13.   El Lay Dave
Someone in the previous thread mentioned Rosenthal's unsourced report for Fox as well.
2007-08-23 17:29:45
14.   Bluebleeder87
5 mine is better sooted for this thread as well. | 636. Bluebleeder87
588 ,589

You knew it was gonna happen (the tone in Josh's last post sang the tune) I'm not really bothered by it Houlton or who ever else could have done the same job David Wells is gonna do.

ps I hope he proves us wrong but I really doubt it.

2007-08-23 17:29:48
15.   Eric Enders
1 Two words: Cut Hamulack.
2007-08-23 17:30:49
16.   Bluebleeder87

I'm thinking he can still muster up a quality start or maybe 2 but it will be down hill after that, trust me!

2007-08-23 17:31:01
17.   Greg Brock
Marty, you can't switch to a team in your own division. Shimmin is leading you down a path of destruction and darkness. This is not the way.

Do it for Sam. And our nation's capital! And America! You don't hate America, do you Marty?

2007-08-23 17:32:26
18.   Eric Enders
I think "fruitionize" is a button on my fancy new blender.
2007-08-23 17:32:35
19.   Marty
But Connor Jackson is dreamy.
2007-08-23 17:33:04
20.   Icaros
But isn't Wells destined to come back and get a couple wins against SD, the team that gave up on him? I'd expect it to happen if LA had cut Wells.
2007-08-23 17:33:50
21.   dzzrtRatt
5 Marty, how could you!??

Seriously, what's the objection to this deal? As long as we don't let ourselves think this is a major move, it seems like a good one.

Is there a minor league starter ready to go who he'd be blocking? Not from what I can tell, unless you're a member of the DJ Houlton Marching and Chowder Society.

I was interested in the idea of McDonald, but he's clearly not available.


is so much better than


And if Wells falls apart, easy enough to send him packing, and bring Tomko or Houlton back. But I think Wells will want to prove something to Towers and to all the other baseball execs who think he's washed up.

This is a low-risk, high-reward gamble. The kind of shot you're supposed to take.

2007-08-23 17:34:15
22.   underdog
I really don't see this as something to jump off a bridge about. I don't see much hope with Wells, either. But if it means not having to watch Tomko again, then I'm for it. (If it doesn't, then I'm not.) But Wells is cheap, worth a flyer, and it's not like the Dodgers have another Chad Billingsley in AAA ready to step in, not obviously anyway. I guess I just don't care that much. The season will be made or broken on whether Penny, Lowe and Bills can keep pitching as well as they have this past week, or be at their best, and maybe get a few more decent starts out of Stults.

Again, if we have to suffer through Tomko and Wells together for the next month, then I'm gonna be more bummed out.

2007-08-23 17:34:16
23.   El Lay Dave
6 My increased productivity lasts about that long too!
2007-08-23 17:35:27
24.   underdog
the next DT-er to become a DBacks Faux Fan here gets voted off the island!
2007-08-23 17:35:28
25.   tethier
Whenever I would see Wells listed to start with SanDiego this year, I would think - boy I am I glad he doesn't picth for the Dodgers. This is like the Dodgers releasing Tomko and having the Padres pick him up. They should have gone with Houlton. I could be wrong about Wells, I've certainly been wrong about many things. However, if he still had something left, why did the Padres release him?
2007-08-23 17:36:13
26.   bigcpa
Gooden, Dwight 11-16-64
Saberhagen, Bret 4-11-64
Wells, David 5-20-63
2007-08-23 17:36:26
27.   underdog
RIP Butch van Breda Kolff.
2007-08-23 17:36:37
28.   Greg Brock
Ryan Church is dreamy.
2007-08-23 17:39:39
29.   Wilbert Robinson
20 That only happens the other way around.
2007-08-23 17:42:19
30.   Zak
I am ok with the Wells signing. The Dodgers are obvously not spending it in a better place (Blair) so we might as well spend it on Wells.... as long as he doesn't come back next year.

Tomko has obviously lost all confidence at this point. I cringe everytime he pitches and as bad as Wells can and probably will be, I am ok with the Dodgers trying something new. Wells is capable of a good start and things like pitching on national TV against the Mets or pitching against the Padres to stick it to them might actually coerce a good start or two from him.

The biggest downside to this, as far as I can tell, is that Tomko will be trotting out of the bullpen every now and then to lose a lead or two. That will be depressing.

2007-08-23 17:43:15
31.   scareduck
And they pulled him out of the cold cold ground
And they pulled him out of the cold cold ground
And they pulled him out of the cold cold ground
And they put him in a suit of lights

Well it's a dog's life in a rope leash or a diamond collar
It's enough to make you think right now
But you don't bother
For goodness sake as you cry and shake
Let's keep you face down in the dirt where you belong
And think of all the pleasure that it brings
Though you know that it's wrong

And there's still life in your body
But most of it's leaving
Can't you give us all a break
Can't you stop breathing

2007-08-23 17:43:26
32.   dzzrtRatt
25 The answer is, we've seen Houlton's upside. We've seen Wells'. Wells' is a lot higher.

If he pitches poorly, Houlton is still available.

If it was serious money, or a decent prospect at stake, then Wells would be a bad idea. But absent those two cases, bringing him here works.

Also, a totally non-sabermetric point. So far, our young pitchers, particularly Billinsley and Broxton, have had a chance to be teammates with: Greg Maddux, Jason Schmidt, Derek Lowe, Brad Penny and an assortment of OG relief pitchers who had good seasons in the past. One HOF lock, and at least three others who've pitched in the World Series.

Isn't it kind of good for the kids to be exposed to these kinds of men, pitchers who developed their gifts to this level?

Houlton would be a warm body, an anti-Tomko but not much more. Wells at least makes this look like a pennant race. It's a flyer.

2007-08-23 17:44:30
33.   Zak
The bigger problem is that Yahoo! Sports lists Wells' height as 6'3" and weight as 248lbs. If Wells is 248, I'm Mary-Kate Olsen. Just for comparison, Brox is listed as 6'4 and 290. Any guesses on what Wells weighs??
2007-08-23 17:44:46
34.   Wilbert Robinson
6-1 Padres. Why don't the Mets want to win?
2007-08-23 17:45:35
35.   Sam DC
Hey Greg -- you're up 5-0 on Houston after two. Astros starter Juan Guttierez gave up 5 runs in the first inning of his first major league start.

The Nationals announced today that tonight's starter -- rookie John Lannan who started the season in A-Ball -- will be shut down after one more start. Nice to see them making such a move, and also making sort of public point about it.

2007-08-23 17:46:26
36.   underdog
32 Very good points.

Again, I'd rather see Houlton than Tomko. (And would rather see ____ than Tomko.) But don't think Houlton is really much of a savior. I think people latch on to him because he's a young starter who is not Tomko. (I actually think Miguel Pinango, of Vegas' starters, would be more interesting to take a look at, if we wanted an in house young starter...)

2007-08-23 17:47:38
37.   bhsportsguy
35 And that will be where, against Mr. Chad Billingsley, next Tuesday night at Dodger Stadium.

Sam will be staying up late for that one, though I don't know who he will listen to as he watches the game.

2007-08-23 17:48:49
38.   Greg Brock
35 No, Sam. WE are up on Houston after two.

Lannan is not dreamy. But he's got guts. Why, John Lannan's got more guts in his little finger than most of us have in our large intestine, including the colon!

2007-08-23 17:50:29
39.   Eric Enders
OK, let's finish up the grousing and move onto logistics. What is the most likely scenario?

1) Wells pitches on Friday, Penny is bumped up to Saturday, Stults is bumped up to Sunday. Wells drops his appeal after the game, meaning Tomko takes his place for one start and Wells is next eligible to pitch on Sept. 1 against SD.

2) The Dodgers don't officially sign Wells until Sunday morning. He pitches that night and skips town before his appeal can be heard, delaying his suspension until 2008. (MLB may not let the Dodgers get away with this scenario.)

3) The Dodgers sign Wells and his appeal is heard tomorrow. Tomko starts on Sunday, Wells serves his suspension and is not eligible to pitch his first game for the Dodgers until Friday, Aug. 31 at San Diego.

2007-08-23 17:51:10
40.   King of the Hobos
My biggest problem is that this is a sideways move at best. However, outside of the incentives, it's not like Wells will cost us anything extra, assuming those incentives are fairly minor. This year, Wells has been little more than a left handed version of Tomko (their stats are nearly identical, with a slight edge towards Tomko), so there's no gain, but no real loss as long as Tomko or Hernandez is the casualty.

I will go on record saying I'd prefer Tomko over Wells. Tomko gives up fewer homers and strikes out more men, and his home/road split shows he's been mediocre anywhere. Wells has slightly better control, but outside of Petco, has been far worse than Tomko anywhere. Unless we score 5+ runs, cances are the team won't win with either starter. The only player that would give the Dodgers a legitimately better chance at winning is McDonald, and if his velocity is down, it would be far better to rest him for next year.

If I were GM, Proctor would have been named a starter a week ago, Hernandez and Tomko would be DFA'd, and Hull and Meloan would come up to pitch the 7th inning with Beimel. But who am I?

2007-08-23 17:52:07
41.   Eric Enders
32 Am I interpreting this right -- you consider David Wells being brought on board as a role model for young pitchers to be a GOOD thing?
2007-08-23 17:54:13
42.   Greg Brock
David Wells, Olmedo Saenz, and Jonathan Broxton are going to absolutely crush the postgame spread.

Clubbies should be paid time and a half.

2007-08-23 17:54:43
43.   Wilbert Robinson
41 Yeah great that's all we need a 300 pound Chad Billingsley loading up on Snickers bars between starts.
2007-08-23 17:55:42
44.   Andrew Shimmin
Maybe Wells was brought in so that he and Hillenbrand can sit in the corner and not infect the other players. A Fragile Equilibrium of Unhappiness situation.
2007-08-23 17:57:59
45.   tethier
32 I'm not sure that we've seen Houlton's upside. I think he just has to go out there and do better than Tomko - something he is capable of doing. More to the point, I think we've seen Wells' 2007 downside and it's not pretty. I understand it's a flyer and I hope Wells proves me wrong.
2007-08-23 17:58:16
46.   Robert Fiore
I remember a bit on Weekend Update when Norm MacDonald was doing it about the threat of Sarin gas. He went into a long, graphic description of the effects ("your lungs fill blood . . .), ending with, ". . . and it's still better than anything on the WB."

I think you can list the demerits of David Wells and end it with, ". . . and he's still better than Brett Tomko."

2007-08-23 17:58:23
47.   Bluebleeder87
Carlos Quentin gets some dreamy points as well.
2007-08-23 17:58:36
48.   Zak
Better than Tomko or Wells... if I were GM, Hendrickson would be starting against the Mets on Sunday.
2007-08-23 17:59:37
49.   King of the Hobos
35 I didn't think it was possible to be impressed by an oorganization that employs both Jim Bowden and Chuck Lamar in positions of power, but somehow, I am. Outside of the way they have used Nook Logan, I don't think I can think of anything they have done that's been particularly bad.

However, for now, I'm still a Dodgers fan.

2007-08-23 18:00:32
50.   Megaballs
DJ had his shot pitching poorly in relief and average in LV.
Its was this for free or something for Contreras I think...
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-08-23 18:00:53
51.   Wilbert Robinson
40 How about Orenduff he had that 12 k performance the other day. Well it seems like he should at least be pitching in Vegas soon. He is 24 after all.
2007-08-23 18:00:56
52.   Jon Weisman
Dave Stewart - perhaps a biased source - on David Wells:

To make matters worse, the Dodgers are also a relatively old team. Unlike most teams that are trying to get younger, the Dodgers have a hard time letting their youth play. For example, it's rumored that LA might be signing 44 year old David Wells. Wells is a good guy to party with, but his work ethic isn't very good and he isn't a good influence on the younger guys. And, it makes no sense to sign him since the Dodgers already have guys that are better than Wells. For instance, 27 year old Eric Stults has pitched well enough to earn a spot in their starting five.
Bottom line... there's an old saying in baseball, "it's better a year too soon than a year too late". In other words, if you've got some promising young players at your disposal, you're better off playing them even if you're not quite sure if they're ready, than playing older guys who are past their prime.

2007-08-23 18:01:13
53.   Andrew Shimmin
Hendrickson's image has been rehabbed more times than all the Rolling Stones put together. Pull him out of the rotation for two weeks, for just cause, and people start thinking he's not that bad.
2007-08-23 18:01:21
54.   Bob Timmermann
I know I should like Gary Cohen as he does a good job for a play-by-play guy, but why does he come off so arrogant?

It just seems that if I met Gary Cohen in a bar who would dislike me just because I'm from the West Coast.

2007-08-23 18:02:24
55.   dzzrtRatt
42 I didn't say "role model." But you don't learn only from role models. I learned a lot from drunken clowns, preening egos and manipulative monsters who I would never call role models. But because they were successful, there was something you could absorb from them.

Yeah, if Broxton gains another 40 pounds and starts beer-belching at umpires, then perhaps I underestimated the downside. The thing I like about Wells is his competitiveness. If his stuff is working, he can rise to the occasion. Another thing I like is that he was a journeyman who figured out how to become a more effective pitcher at a relatively advanced age.

2007-08-23 18:04:05
56.   Bluebleeder87
But who am I?

your a poster at Dodger Thoughts who's comments are well respected just like all DT'ers post are respected.

ps But I don't know about Proctor starting though, was he a starter in the minors?

2007-08-23 18:05:56
57.   tethier
Didn't Wells disparage the Dodgers back in 2004? I seem to remember so unflattering comments he made when he was with San Diego the first time.
2007-08-23 18:06:41
58.   Marty
Ratt, I have nothing against that type of move. I just have always hated Wells. He's a fat tub of goo.

He's my Russ Ortiz.

2007-08-23 18:06:55
59.   Eric Enders
Yeah, we have clearly not seen Houlton's upside. Upside means "capacity for future success." What we have seen is one year of a guy who, by definition, was not yet ready for the majors since he was a Rule 5 pick. I'm not saying Houlton's all that, but if you're making your judgments based on what you remember from 2005 then I think you're off base.

For that matter, if you make your judgments of Wells based on what you remember from 2005 (or 1998, or 2001), you're equally off base. I don't think there's any question whatsoever that right now, in 2007, Houlton is a better pitcher than Wells. Plus he has infinitely more upside than Wells.

And you know what, I think Colletti knows this. This is a CYA move. I think he's reasonably certain that Wells will fail, but that your average Dodger fan will be seduced by Wells' famous name and say to himself, "Well, at least Ned tried. He brought in some big-name players."

This sort of follows in a pattern of acquiring guys like Nomar, Gonzo, Pierre, and even Maddux, where their actual performance on the field matters much less than the cachet their name gets among the fans. Three of the other four tanked, and with Maddux he just got lucky that a pitcher who had been having a really lousy year suddenly turned it on.

2007-08-23 18:07:00
60.   dzzrtRatt
52 Interesting. Stewart actually mangles the "old saying." Branch Rickey supposedly said it's better to trade away a player a year too soon rather than a year too late. I recall Campanis using that phrase repeatedly to explain why he let Garvey, Baker and other stars leave.

And I don't think Wells is bumping Stults, is he? Stewart must think Tomko is staying in the rotation and Stults is sitting. Is there any indication that's how it's going to go? You don't have to be a mind-reader to pick up that Little is ready to be shed of Tomko as a starter.

2007-08-23 18:07:59
61.   Wilbert Robinson
57 As did LuGo last year. I believe he called the Dodgers "gutless". We're trying to corner the market on Dodger haters.
2007-08-23 18:08:18
62.   Eric Enders
52 So I guess Billingsley probably isn't going to look up to Wells too much, if his own agent is publicly trashing Wells in print.
2007-08-23 18:08:34
63.   Sam DC
49 Nationals also have Bill Singer in the organization.

They were so impressed by his work with Kim Ng that they hired him to scourt Asia.

2007-08-23 18:08:51
64.   Bluebleeder87

Makes perfect sense.

2007-08-23 18:09:01
65.   Andrew Shimmin
Proctor has one Major League start (in 2005; he went 5 1/2 IP, gave up three runs and two home runs), and fifty-six minor league ones.
2007-08-23 18:09:22
66.   Andrew Shimmin
5 1/3.
2007-08-23 18:09:33
67.   Marty
I tell you I'm seeing red, Arizona red!
2007-08-23 18:09:57
68.   Lexinthedena
52- It is that mistrust of young players that Ned SEEMS to have that has been driving me crazy this season.....I don't want to watch a repeat of 90's San Fransisco Giants at Chavez Ravine...

Thank god for Kemp, Loney, Martin, and Bills.

2007-08-23 18:10:18
69.   scareduck
59 - and if this really is how Ned is operating, those same Dodger fans -- stuck wishing for more than a couple of postseason victories since 1988 -- will get to wait ever longer. Pandering to the lowest common denominator idiots in the bleachers will not suddenly call a winning team into existence from thin air, or the waiver wire.
2007-08-23 18:10:40
70.   Sam DC
scourt -- that's when you go to place and both scout the players and court them in an effort to get new talent signed.

It should not be confused with ScCourt which is when you scout players for Frank McCourt.

2007-08-23 18:11:22
71.   bhsportsguy
52 What a difference a year makes. Dave Stewart in June 2006

"A lot of organizations -- and some past Dodgers organizations -- wouldn't be comfortable bringing up 21-year-olds and letting them play," said Stewart.

"A lot of clubs make young players wait too long in the Minor Leagues and they lose the glimmer and spark. The Dodgers were brave to bring them up and let them play. Ned and Grady only saw them play a little in the spring. They didn't have a lot to go on. That takes a lot of confidence."

2007-08-23 18:11:36
72.   Eric Enders
63 SCOURT (n.) 1. A combination of "to scout" and "to court." 2. The self-appointed specialty of Bill Singer.
2007-08-23 18:11:40
73.   Marty
So, now that I'm an Arizona fan, do you think Ned would go for Randy Johnson for Kemp and Martin?
2007-08-23 18:12:49
74.   underdog
Bases loaded, nobody out for the Mets, down 6-1 to Padres.
2007-08-23 18:13:21
75.   El Lay Dave
59 Gonzo tanked? Yeah, he's struggling now, but even Ned said he was just a bridge to Kemp. As Kemp matured, Gonzalez did put these numbers up in the first half: .294, .384, .471, .855, 10 HR
2007-08-23 18:13:21
76.   Andrew Shimmin
70- I thought you meant they'd hired him out to an escort service. That would have been the kind of bold leadership that would have made me think of becoming a Nats fan.
2007-08-23 18:14:25
77.   dzzrtRatt
58 Well, as anyone who saw me at DT Day knows, I'm built a lot more like Wells than, say, D.J. Houlton, so it would be hypocritical for me to object to that aspect of him.

59 I'm not writing off Houlton's entire career. He might wind up a solid contributor to the Dodgers or some team, someday soon. When I was comparing upsides, I was talking about for the next two months only.

This move is about the pennant race, and keeping the veterans' heads in it. If you show Jeff Kent or Derek Lowe a rotation that has three near-rookies in it, talented as they might be, and those players conclude you've written off the season. Wells arrival says, "We're going for it."

I'm not expecting the Dodgers to win even the division. But I think it's good for the kids to be part of a team that is driving toward it, rather than starting the exhibition baseball season six months early.

2007-08-23 18:14:36
78.   bhsportsguy
73 When one of you go out and start "SnakeBytes" (hey I should trademark that right now), then I will believe that you have left the flock.

But then you know that you will never get into heaven.

2007-08-23 18:14:52
79.   Bob Timmermann
The Nats have a GM who has compared the Players Association to Al-Qaida, been arrested for DUI, insulted Dan Evans to his face and dismissed at just being his sense of humor, and his biggest supporter is himself and thinks the Reflecting Pool on the Mall was built for him.

What else would you expect from the only person kicked out of Narcissists Anonymous for talking too much during meetings?

2007-08-23 18:14:53
80.   underdog
73 Cut that out! {slap!}
2007-08-23 18:15:29
81.   tethier
61 He's right - they are gutless. They sit a 25 year old .300 hitter who had hit an HR and double along with two intentional walks the night before and trot out a 39 year old who goes 0 for 4 with two GIDPs.
2007-08-23 18:15:59
82.   Eric Enders
75 Maybe "tanked" is a little strong. But we don't just get to keep Gonzo's first half numbers and throw the rest out with the bathwater.

For the year, he has a 102 OPS+, which is significantly below average for a left fielder. So instead of "tanked," maybe I should have just said "played significantly below average."

2007-08-23 18:17:18
83.   bhsportsguy
81 But Luis Gonzalez is Ethier's role model (no seriously he is)
2007-08-23 18:17:19
84.   underdog
Make that 7-6 Mets!

They score 6 in the inning, topped off by a 3 run dinger by old friend Marlon Anderson.

2007-08-23 18:17:48
85.   Wilbert Robinson
wow Mets take the lead!!
2007-08-23 18:18:08
86.   Wilbert Robinson
I love you Marlon!
2007-08-23 18:18:17
87.   scareduck
77 - This move is about the pennant race, and keeping the veterans' heads in it. If you show Jeff Kent or Derek Lowe a rotation that has three near-rookies in it, talented as they might be, and those players conclude you've written off the season. Wells arrival says, "We're going for it."

The antecedent of "it" in this case being "dinner".

2007-08-23 18:19:00
89.   Andrew Shimmin
73- It'd be nice, but the D'backs outfield is already crowded. And, Montero is going to be pretty good. Not Golden God good, but pretty good. Mark Reynolds is having a nice year, but I'd rather have LaRoche and Billingsley for Johnson. Tony Clark for Delwyn Young, Kershaw, and Greg Miller.
2007-08-23 18:19:43
90.   bhsportsguy
Just to be clear, everyone agrees that Stewart is like any other agent and has no interest in how the Dodgers are doing as long as his players play and accrue service time.
2007-08-23 18:19:52
91.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, I think the biggest surprise today is that the Orioles are leading the Twins in Baltimore 1-0 in the 8th with Steve Trachsel throwing a 4-hitter.
2007-08-23 18:19:56
92.   Bluebleeder87

It looks like the Pads are losing now 7-6

2007-08-23 18:20:09
93.   scareduck
77 - one more thing: I don't get this logic. Kent and Lowe played about as well as you could have hoped for in 2005, but the Dodgers collapsed anyway for other reasons. I really don't see a case for "unmotivated veterans" being a cause for signing Wells.
2007-08-23 18:20:37
94.   Andrew Shimmin
And Augie Ojeda for Hu. O-Dawg might be leaving next year.
2007-08-23 18:21:28
95.   Lexinthedena
81- Hey, this isn't Nintendo baseball! you don't know what Grady knows...
2007-08-23 18:21:29
96.   Greg Brock
Marty is really starting to chap my hide.

You're not seeing Arizona red...That's Nationals red!

2007-08-23 18:21:33
97.   bhsportsguy
89 Didn't you see my note about starting the D-Back blog, I promise to go there and populate it with Simpsons quotes and random mispellings.

Heck, I'll even defend the Arizona front office for extending Byrnes and resigning Craig Counsell after this year.

2007-08-23 18:21:59
98.   tethier
83 I've read that too. I'm sure Andre is sincere about it and also just being nice to his elders.
2007-08-23 18:22:20
99.   GoBears
Yeah, with the Wells and Hillebrand signings, I think it's time for Colletti to drop the "good character guys" mantra.

I don't hate this deal because there is no hope that Wells can pitch a couple good games. I hate it because it is one more drip on the forehead that shows there's no hope that Colletti can get a clue.

Forget Pierre for a minute, who is merely below average and way overpaid. How many roster spots are now held down by below-replacement-level players?

Saenz (thanks for the memories, Olmedo)
maybe Nomar, albeit on the DL?

Hendrickson, while awful is likely not on the list. And that's what's depressing.

2007-08-23 18:23:35
100.   Wilbert Robinson
The Reds Braves game is a hum dinger as well Braves came back from a 4 run deficit. Score is now 7-7
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-08-23 18:23:56
101.   Andrew Shimmin
97- I saw it. I'm not a blogger. My hope is that Jon can be won over. Then we'll see who purges whom.
2007-08-23 18:24:15
102.   Sam DC
Um, so I banged out some stuff on the Nats for LAT who asked. It's grossly, unreasonably long, so I ask everyone's indulgence. (As they say, if I had more time, I'd make it shorter.) But I figure Brock is interested too, so there you go. Gentleman, start your scrolling.
2007-08-23 18:24:15
103.   Eric Enders
77 "This move is about the pennant race, and keeping the veterans' heads in it. If you show Jeff Kent or Derek Lowe a rotation that has three near-rookies in it, talented as they might be, and those players conclude you've written off the season. Wells arrival says, "We're going for it."

I'm not expecting the Dodgers to win even the division. But I think it's good for the kids to be part of a team that is driving toward it, rather than starting the exhibition baseball season six months early."

Okay, part of me says "this sort of makes sense." And the other part of me says "it's freaking nuts."

What you call "starting the exhibition season six months early," I would call "putting the best baseball players on the field." And isn't that, in the end, what it's all about? Are you really suggesting that we should be playing washed-up old guys because playing better, younger players would constitute giving up on the season?

OK, so you might not buy that Houlton is a better pitcher than Wells at this exact moment. Let's hypothesize instead about someone who is, with no question whatsoever, a better pitcher than Wells right now: James McDonald. Assuming McDonald were still an option, would you advocate starting Wells over him? Or would you go with the older and clearly inferior guy for purely psychological, non-baseball reasons?

2007-08-23 18:24:19
104.   tethier
91 Are they playing Texas? The Rangers are probably just pooped. It's not easy to score all those runs.
2007-08-23 18:25:16
105.   tethier
104 Sorry - you did say they were playing the Twins.
2007-08-23 18:25:22
106.   bhsportsguy
I think Ramon and to a certain extent Olmedo should be given a break, they don't play that much, and if Tony Abreu and Delwyn Young are back up next week, they probably won't play much in September either.

Hernandez, Tomko, Shea, sure why not.

Nomar, well he was hitting better after the ASB.

Hendy in the pen, good, starting, not so good.

2007-08-23 18:25:27
107.   Bob Timmermann
No, Minnesota is in town. The Rangers are home to Seattle.
2007-08-23 18:25:53
108.   Sam DC
State of the Nats

1. 2007 Performance: The team cut payroll to low $30M, lowest or near lowest in the league, and made no high profile acquisitions in the offseason. They were predicted to be historically, 62 Metsy, bad. Then, basically four fifths of their projected no-name rotation were lost to injury; it was pretty nuts filling in. But somehow, after a horrid April/May, they are on pace to win 70something games -- their pythag right now has them a few games ahead of last year when they had Alfonso Soriano and Livan Hernandez. They have one of the better records in baseball since the AS break and I think the organization takes real pride in having already outperformed expectations. Basically, a a string of players have had long stretches of performing way above their career norms (Cristian Guzman before he got hurt, Dmitri Young all year -- he is in the hunt for the batting title, Ronnie Belliard the first half, Nook Logan since the All Star break). Young, who was the team's All Star, has been the most high profile story -- he was picked up late in the offseason when no one wanted him and it seemed like he was out of baseball after major off the field problems, including assaulting his mistress and being diagnosed with diabetes. The story here is told that, because he came into camp so late, he spent a bunch of time at the rookie field, with many of the team's youngest prospects, high school kids and stuff, and kind of re-found his love of the game playing with them. Anyhow, he's got an ugly history, but he has been a good citizen here, is beloved by his teammates and the press covering the team, and really does seem to be happy and appreciating the opportunity. People are complicated.

2. Manny Acta: The biggest move in the offseason was hiring Manny Acta. A smart, sabr-friendly, and completely likeable first year manager. He has really impressed. For one, the locker room just seems very healthy and friendly. Under Robinson, there was so much tension and anger floating around all the time, even in 2005 when they were winning. He was constantly ripping his own players in the press, and I think his "respect for the ways of the game" bred a real old-school culture of conflict and disrespect between younger/newer players and the vets. In particular, there was a major divide between players who'd been on the team in Montreal and new players to DC. And Robinson was understood to very much have favorites and take sides. Acta is always positive, the players really like him. I don't know how that translates on the field, but they very much play hard all the time, they have a lot of confidence even when they fall behind, etc. Also, during horrible losing times in April and May, the clubhouse managed to hang together and the players seemed to buy into Acta's repeated statements that they were better than they were showing and would do better over the course of the year. And so they have.

Also, on Manny, he seems to be very good at teaching/criticizing players without causing a fuss. He made Ryan Zimmerman come out for defensive drills after a string of Zimm errors a couple of weeks ago and Zimm was only appreciative. Same with when he benched Church for not running out a popup early in the season. And in other ways, he's been able to let folks know when they were not meeting his expectations in a way that encouraged them to try and do better rather than causing them to just be angry or hurt. Acta was a real find, and you can congratulate Kasten and Bowden on the hire.

3. New Stadium: The Nationals new stadium, along the Anacostia river about a mile from the Capitol is on budget and on time and will be ready for next season. Here is an animated tour of the stadium: If you can get me some inside dirt on what the darn thing is going to be called, I'd be much obliged. Last year, you may recall, you joshed about calling it Old Navy Yard since the neighborhood where it is going up is called the Navy Yard. Folks are now speculating that it may be called Geico Park, since Geico has been steadily expanding its sponsorship connections to the team, and now sends a giant mascot Gekko to the games. Geico Park is not a real popular name. MY idea is that they should try and get one of the huge defense contractors (Lockheed Martin is local) to pay to have the stadium named something traditional like "Memorial Field" and then build in some galleries where the company could have it's advertising presence. Maybe have plaques for all the Medal of Honor winners around, with the company's name on them. I think a company that did that would get a ton of positive free press merely in news coverage of their decision. Feel free to pass that idea on to Mr. Kasten if you like.

There has been a controversy here re whether the Lerners have honored their commitments re the ballpark and in general whether they are too cheap. This past offseason (soon after they slashed payroll to the bone, in fact), they made a big press splash by promising to spend around $50 million on upgrades to the publicly-funded stadium, including a hot new scoreboard, lots of luxury box upgrades, and other stuff that would benefit the average parkgoer. A few weeks ago, the local Moonie paper (aka the Washington Times) broke the story that they hadn't paid much of that money. Also, they are actually suing the City on some smallish side issues, and that too has fed a perception that they Lerners are just cash sharks who are shaking the city down for a free stadium and then picking up whatever loose change also happened to fall from the city's pockets. Before that, Ken Rosnenthal ran a big and very negative piece on how the organization was being run. It covered a lot of ground, and included some especially weird anecdotes about the Lerners needing to personal inspect every voucher to spend any money at all ($18 for a new fungo bat, yes or no?). The story had some scouts and old school folks complaining that the team wouldn't pay for free sunflower seeds which they considered customary. I give them the benefit of the doubt (I mean, I gather they are tight with money and sharp, but I'm not ready to buy into the most outlandish of claims and bet that a lot of what looks like cheap may be other forms of mismanagement and/or disorganization). But there are serious open questions about this issue going forward. (I bet you hear that the price of baseballs has only gone up since last year!)

Parking -- the new stadium is on metro but harder to reach than RFK, and it has very little parking. So far, the plan for that seems to be, it will all just work out. This is a time bomb waiting to explode on Opening Day 2008. Parking/traffic related to the stadium seems very poorly thought out or addressed so far.

4. Personnel/The Plan/2008. This will be a fascinating offseason. Having signed Dmitri Young and Ronnie Belliard, the team seems determined to rebuild and try and compete at the same time. Most would've expected them to plunge more deeply into rebuilding, but I assume they figure that they need to put a serviceable product on the field next year in a new park with lots of casual fans coming through to see them for the first time. And they should have something like $20M to spend. It will be interesting to see if they try and get one big difference maker type, or two or three pieces. Most fans want the former, but it is not obvious who that would be (given that the Nationals already have like 8 former Bowden/Reds players, the smart money is on Adam Dunn). Their most obvious spots to upgrade would be getting a centerfielder who can hit (Andruw? Torii Hunter?) or a strong staring pitcher. But it's not a great FA class and the team hasn't whispered word one about what it will try and do.
I vote they sign A_Rod to play short and make a real splash and quiet their doubters for good. Feel free to pass that long too.
5. Attendance/Season Ticket base. They were over 2 mill in the first season w/something like 22K season ticket holders, between the buzz of being new to the city and having an incredible first half run (they were in first place with 50 or so wins at the AS break.) Over the next two years, the season ticket base (and with it overall attendance) plummeted. The team has been bad throughout, and the service and amenities at RFK have really only gotten or worse (or at least have failed to improve, which is pretty unacceptable). Also, over that time, ethics/gift rules in Congress changed dramatically and my understanding is that a major use for season tickets -- giving them to elected officials and staff -- has been severely limited. Presumably a new park will kick attendance back up, but the team has to be concerned by the steepness of the drop over the past three years. Sure, if they build a first place team they will have a full ballpark, but will this city sustain interest in the team during medium/average/poor years?

2007-08-23 18:28:36
109.   bhsportsguy
101 Jon survived 2005 and Jim Tracy, I'm pretty sure short of a return of Kevin Malone and Kevin Kennedy managing the team, that he can persuaded to go to the D-Back universe.

But then, I probably shouldn't answer for him, for me, I like the color blue too much to change.

2007-08-23 18:29:09
110.   Bob Timmermann
I didn't see 105 when I typed 107 , so I'm glad I wasn't too snarky.

The Rangers have been shutout early by Jeff Weaver in Arlington.

2007-08-23 18:30:49
111.   El Lay Dave
The Padres must really be disliking Marlon Anderson by now.

Anderson for the Mets: .340, .373, .553, .926
Is he going to do the stretch-drive thing two years running?

2007-08-23 18:31:50
112.   bhsportsguy
BTW - I see that Bobby Cox was ejected today, I assume he has already broken that record?
2007-08-23 18:32:31
113.   El Lay Dave
112 Yup, now he's trying to put it out of reach.
2007-08-23 18:32:42
114.   Bob Timmermann
2005 was a year when we all became familiar with the works of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross.

I actually think people were in a better mood then than they are this year.

It's an angry group this year that condemns more quickly than a Texas judge who gets paid commissions by a lethal injection company.

2007-08-23 18:34:17
115.   Wilbert Robinson
a better pitcher than Wells right now: James McDonald. Assuming McDonald were still an option, would you advocate starting Wells over him? Again how about Orenduff? He's 2 years older than Mcdonald, has more experience pitching, just had a 12 K performance, and has thrown less innings this year. I'd make the case that he is a better option than Mcdonald even if his velocity wasn't down.
2007-08-23 18:35:41
116.   bhsportsguy
114 I am going to miss that razor-sharp wit when you go on vacation.

BTW - Surgery go well? If you can answer without violating HIPPA.

2007-08-23 18:36:20
117.   Eric Enders
Marlon Anderson's career vs. the Padres:
2007-08-23 18:36:24
118.   Curtis Lowe
114 - In 2005 everyone was content to wait til' next year and beyond due to the Jacksonville 5 tearing it up. This year the Jacksonville 5/4 have been being held back by management and there are kids with better upside than some of the vets unlike 2005.

Therefore 2007 is dumb.

2007-08-23 18:36:24
119.   tethier
106 I think Delwyn Young should have replaced Olmedo 2 months ago. I agree that mayeb he should have been given a break. It seems like Grady mis-used this year.
He seemed to hit a lot against Right handers.

One problem with Olmedo is he is so slow. So when he gets on base, which hasn't been very often, you almost have to have someone come in and run for him. It would have been nice to see Young in Olmedo's role, especially since he's a switch hitter and was knocking the out of the ball all summer.

2007-08-23 18:36:46
120.   GoBears
bhsportsguy: This is a question that is not meant to be sarcastic, because I honestly don't know the answer, and I'm curious:

Without disclosing any details you don't want to: Are you a baseball "insider" in some sense? I ask in part because you seem to know a lot about the minors, etc., but mostly because you refer to nearly all players and management folk by their first names, indicating familiarity. Sometimes it's confusing, because while "Nomar" is unambiguous (and used by everyone), "James" or "Matt" or "Frank" or "Jeff" often require more careful reading of context.

Perhaps it's just a style choice on your part, in which case, sorry for the dumb question. But for me anyway, it would seem odd (even presumptuous?) to refer to someone by their given name without any personal relationship. And, as I said, it makes some references difficult to interpret.

2007-08-23 18:38:52
121.   GoBears
118 Therefore 2007 is dumb.

That made me laugh. Very pithy.

2007-08-23 18:40:30
122.   Bob Timmermann
You are assuming she would tell me one way or the other.

I assume it went OK.

Where as anytime I get the slightest bit sick, I want 20 people to come by and feed me and feel sorry for me, she just goes off in a corner and seals herself from the world.

She was told to lie on her back for 8 hours after the operation. So I imagine she's asleep. Tomorrow she goes to USC for their big season opening banquet for football boosters.

2007-08-23 18:41:41
123.   Sam DC
Astros coming back.
2007-08-23 18:44:56
124.   tethier
111 While I'm thrilled he's pounding the Padres, he's probably just heating up for the Dodgers coming to town. It sure would be nice to have him on our side instead of Marc Sweeney.
2007-08-23 18:46:11
125.   bhsportsguy
118 I guess this is the part I don't get. So if they don't sign Gonzo and Nomar, and Loney and Kemp play all year, than there would be no problems. Because outside of that, I'm just not sure what youngsters we are talking about.

I suppose by default Betemit would have to played unless, after his slow start, you just stick LaRoche in.

I don't see any way, Ned doesn't sign Pierre, I just don't.

I don't think there are any other obvious solutions to starting rotation, at least at the beginning of the year, besides Kuo and Chad and Kuo got hurt.

The bullpen plan was to have Tsao and Brazoban, so again, does that mean promoting Meloan.

Now, once Kemp and Loney are here, it seems silly not to play them as much as possible but I again state, who exactly has been held up. Really, from the Jacksonville 5, that would only be LaRoche. Kemp wasn't part of that group and Loney wasn't included.

Russell, Chad, and Broxton have been here all year and of course Guzman was in AAA for Tampa Bay until recently.

2007-08-23 18:46:34
126.   El Lay Dave
From the AP on the Wells signing:

Wells will get a prorated salary with the Dodgers plus a per-start incentive that is almost identical to the incentive-based deal he had with the Padres.

Wells' contract with the Padres called for him to make $176,470 per start from Nos. 11-27. He made 22 starts with San Diego.

AP quotes Wells' agent on the signing, but got no comment from the Dodgers.

2007-08-23 18:46:48
127.   Bob Timmermann
But if Marlon Anderson hadn't been released, I wouldn't have had a nice lead item when I filled in for Jon on Fungoes.
2007-08-23 18:48:35
128.   Bluebleeder87
he's probably just heating up for the Dodgers coming to town

it sure seems that way, he had some pretty good at bats last time we saw him from what I remember.

2007-08-23 18:48:39
129.   King of the Hobos
115 I think the biggest problem with Orenduff is that he can't start on Sunday. However, I certainly wouldn't have complained if he had been named 5th starter for the month of September in place of Wells.
2007-08-23 18:48:42
130.   bhsportsguy
120 No, I don't know them, its more stylistic considering these are comments to a blog, if I was writing for publication, I would probably be more formal.
2007-08-23 18:52:34
131.   Bob Timmermann
Back to back doubles by Greene and Sledge tie the game in New York in the 9th.
No one out.
2007-08-23 18:52:35
132.   Bluebleeder87
the Padres have tied it up 7-7 with no outs & a runner on 2nd.
2007-08-23 18:53:47
133.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know if I've ever seen two comments separated by one second.
2007-08-23 18:54:02
134.   King of the Hobos
126 So we're basically paying Wells somewhere near $1 mil? Blair aside, I don't like paying him that, not when we have to pay Tomko anyways and Tomko can pitch about as well as Wells has this year.
2007-08-23 18:54:03
135.   Bob Timmermann
8-7 Padres.
2007-08-23 18:54:38
136.   scareduck
83 - so, does this mean that Ethier will have a late-career power surge, too?
2007-08-23 18:55:35
137.   King of the Hobos
Still no Abreu or Laroche for the 51s.
2007-08-23 18:56:01
138.   El Lay Dave
Wagner blowing his save but good.

133 There have been comments with the same exact time displayed.

2007-08-23 18:56:19
139.   dzzrtRatt
103 Assuming McDonald were still an option, would you advocate starting Wells over him?

No. The reports on McDonald were intriguing enough where promoting him seemed like a great move. Promoting McDonald would not have been a surrender move.

The process seemed to be: Ned checks out McDonald. Ned realizes McDonald is burnt for the season. Ned calls Wells. I would have followed the same path.

It is not logically inconsistent to say LuGo should be benched so Kemp and Ethier can play every day and to also say Wells is a better option than Houlton. I believe we win more games with Kemp and Ethier, and if I didn't think that, I'd say, heck, play LuGo.

Shorter: If Wells and Kemp played the same position, I'd pick Kemp. But that's not the kind of choice we're facing.

2007-08-23 18:56:29
140.   Bob Timmermann
Wagner still hasn't gotten anyone out in New York.
Greene double
Sledge double
Bard single
Giles walk

World Series Hero up.

2007-08-23 19:00:19
141.   El Lay Dave
140 The hero stuck out. As has the other Giles brother.
2007-08-23 19:00:21
142.   GoBears
130. Hmm. Thanks. I guess I just never think of athletes or coaches or management by their first names. So reading first names forces me to take a second to figure out who is being discussed). It's rarely difficult, but I guess it's just noticeable.

The more I think about it (and I know this is fascinating to everyone) it's really less about the unintentional implication of familiarity and more about the ambiguity. Because I do think of some guys by their nicknames (ARod, Pudge). When first names are less ambiguous than surnames (Shaq, Kobe, Vlad), using those makes communication easier. But common names (Mike, Chad, James) require that everyone has the same context in mind. And with blog comments, in which conversations are often something of a patchwork, that's sometimes tricky.

OK, I'm done whining, or navel-gazing, or whatever I'm doing. Just thought I'd ask, since the day's Dodger baseball has concluded.

2007-08-23 19:02:50
143.   Bob Timmermann
Ichiro says hello!
2007-08-23 19:02:54
144.   LogikReader
What's this? An Angels game without Rex Hudler? They should have "Dugout View" for Angels games every day.
2007-08-23 19:05:30
145.   imperabo
Hopefully the Mets pull this out, but I'm still more concerned about the D'backs. The wildcard is a 7 team race, so who knows who to root against at this point.
2007-08-23 19:06:37
146.   Bob Timmermann
Can't anybody here close out a game?
2007-08-23 19:08:24
147.   Bluebleeder87

I'm on the same boat you are imerabo.

2007-08-23 19:08:48
148.   Bluebleeder87

It makes for great drama though.

2007-08-23 19:09:13
149.   Curtis Lowe
FSN prime ticket is showing the Angels game with only at the staium audio feed kinda funny.


2007-08-23 19:09:39
150.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets and Padres have come up with the hard 16.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-08-23 19:09:46
151.   imperabo
Double steal and no throw to put the winning run on second and the tying run on third?
2007-08-23 19:10:52
152.   bhsportsguy
146 No they can't.

So whose bullpen is in better shape for extra innings. I think the Padres are only because I think they have Bell, while the Mets have Heillman and Mota.

2007-08-23 19:11:55
153.   bhsportsguy
149 Its the Dugout view on delay in case someone curses.
2007-08-23 19:11:59
154.   LogikReader

I still can't believe it. Wow, this is some game, huh?

2007-08-23 19:13:00
155.   LogikReader
gotta love Hoffman!
2007-08-23 19:13:36
156.   El Lay Dave
Runner on 3rd, so IBB to Beltran, Delgado to get to Alou.
2007-08-23 19:14:40
157.   bhsportsguy
Moises Alou is 4 for 23 against Trevor Hoffman in his career, 2 of his hits are HRs.
2007-08-23 19:14:41
158.   El Lay Dave
Correction, for some reason, it was the charade of the intentional unintentional walk for Delgado, apparently.
2007-08-23 19:14:53
159.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets are 11-25 in games which Mota has appeared.

The Padres are 40-22 in games which Bell has appeared.

2007-08-23 19:15:24
160.   bhsportsguy
Is Lastings Milledge in the on deck circle?
2007-08-23 19:15:27
161.   imperabo
Let's hope the Mets win this in the 18th inning or so. Wipe out both bullpens with the Mets series coming up.
2007-08-23 19:15:54
162.   underdog
150 Is that a sequel to a PT Anderson film?

I'm rooting for a Nina for the Mets.

Btw, re: McDonald, given he started the season in A, moved up to AA, and - while he looks like a great prospect now - has pitched more innings than he's likely used to, and is showing signs of tiredness, I'm not sure about calling for him at this point. It seemed like an intriguing dark horse kind of idea about a month ago. But not as much now. Like I said, this season is on Penny, Lowe and Bills, with some help from Stults and now I guess Wells a boost. As long as Tomko's not in there any more, I'm okay with it. (And yes, I can see the argument for giving Houlton another chance or two. The argument against would be that they already have Stults up, having both he and Houlton pitching critical games could make coaches nervous... but again, not as nervous as watching Tomko.)

2007-08-23 19:16:28
163.   Bob Timmermann
Keeping track of my pet peeves I see.
2007-08-23 19:17:53
164.   LogikReader
re: Angels game on FSN Prime Ticket...

This dugout view idea might be crazy enough to work

2007-08-23 19:18:01
165.   bhsportsguy
The Dodgers are out getting a nice dinner in NYC while the Padres will have a bus ride down to Philly and an early morning check in.

Since I am to lazy to look it up, how long is that bus ride, can't be too long since the train ride is only a little over an hour.

2007-08-23 19:18:54
166.   LogikReader
depends on traffic though, bhsportsguy
2007-08-23 19:19:25
167.   underdog
He's on the in deck circle.
2007-08-23 19:19:41
168.   LogikReader
Google Maps says it takes about 2 hours to get from Philly to NY
2007-08-23 19:19:49
169.   bhsportsguy
163 I always think about things like that, trying to figure out who can be the last possible batter in extra innings.

When Nomar came up in the 4+1 game, I always trying to figure out when Marlon the Magician was due up?

2007-08-23 19:20:43
170.   bhsportsguy
166 Should be pretty clear this time of night.
2007-08-23 19:20:55
171.   underdog
You know, I look at the Padres' lineup, and then I look at the Dodgers', and, well, I feel better about ours - no matter which kooky line-up Grady tosses out there. Obviously the Padres have had some stellar pitching this season, too.
2007-08-23 19:21:16
172.   Bob Timmermann
Google maps says 2:11 from Queens to Philly.
2007-08-23 19:21:45
173.   underdog
168 Google Maps is probably right about that, though Google Maps also said I should take a shortcut down a dirt road which also had a barricade on one end, once.
2007-08-23 19:23:12
174.   bhsportsguy
162 Was it Nate who first mentioned McDonald in DT around May or June this year. If it was, kudos to Nate for recognizing him so early.

Darn that Gonzalez.

2007-08-23 19:23:15
175.   Eric Enders
I hate Adrian Gonzalez. Even though he's on my roto team.
2007-08-23 19:24:22
176.   bhsportsguy
175 Then it must have been really rough back in July (or was it June)
2007-08-23 19:24:32
177.   Eric Enders
165 I once was supposed to meet a friend at Shea Stadium for a game and he never showed up because he got lost on the NYC freeway system and ended up in Philly.
2007-08-23 19:31:05
178.   Eric Enders
Sandy Alomar? It's really come to this for the Mets?
2007-08-23 19:31:22
179.   El Lay Dave
174 I thought CanuckDodger was the McDonald guy.
2007-08-23 19:33:17
180.   Bob Timmermann
Ron Darling is really laying it on thick about Heath Bell's choking.

Which he's shown little propensity for this year.

2007-08-23 19:33:27
181.   El Lay Dave
178 And he singles!
2007-08-23 19:34:15
182.   LogikReader
Bob, imagine living in NYC and watching the Dodgers play the Mets through the lens of the Mets broadcasting team. That'd be hard to take.
2007-08-23 19:35:05
183.   Greg Brock
178 Well, Heart and Soul is hurt, Castro (who was raking) is hurt, and the other dude is Mike DeFelice.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Mike LeValliere suit up of the Mets.

2007-08-23 19:35:07
184.   El Lay Dave
Free baseball in Cincy too, 7-7 in the 11th.
2007-08-23 19:35:35
185.   Greg Brock
Or Mike LaValliere, for that matter.
2007-08-23 19:36:06
186.   bhsportsguy
179 Could be, I don't recall who mentioned him first.

But again kudos to whoever it was that found him.

2007-08-23 19:36:11
187.   Eric Enders
Too bad Reyes got that infield hit. I would've liked to see him hit a gapper with Alomar on first. "Move out of my way, old man!"
2007-08-23 19:36:45
188.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think Ron Darling can deal with Heath Bell getting the save.
2007-08-23 19:37:09
189.   El Lay Dave
Reyes IF single, Alomar to 2nd. Do the Mets have pitcher than can PR for Alomar now?
2007-08-23 19:37:32
190.   bhsportsguy
That's a tough loss especially since they handed the ball to Wagner with the lead.
2007-08-23 19:38:18
191.   Curtis Lowe
I will gladly accept the credit for finding McDonald.
2007-08-23 19:40:46
192.   Bob Timmermann
Earlier tonight, Darling said that it would be important AFTER the Dodgers left town for Schoenweis to pitch well because the Mets will be facing good lefty hitters again.
2007-08-23 19:44:19
193.   Jon Weisman
Wow, that Angels no-announcer broadcast is remarkably peaceful and enjoyable. I'm usually skeptical of such things, but I like it.
2007-08-23 19:46:34
194.   El Lay Dave
192 ! I would like to hear Tony Jackson or Diamond Leung ask Messrs. Pierre, Gonzalez, Ethier, Loney and Sweeney to comment on that.
2007-08-23 19:50:07
195.   El Lay Dave
Reds started the 11th single, double, but did not score.
2007-08-23 19:57:51
196.   LogikReader

ah but Dunn makes up for it! wow that was CRUSHED

2007-08-23 19:57:59
197.   Icaros
Adam Dunn is a Dodger at heart.
2007-08-23 19:58:14
198.   Curtis Lowe
194 - The answer would probably be "When I'm up there I don't think left hadned-right handed, I think about making contact with the ball."
2007-08-23 20:02:00
199.   Andrew Shimmin
Cannuck had McDonald as the 16th best Dodger prospect, last December.

2007-08-23 20:02:00
200.   LogikReader

Oh Ron Darling, how I describe thee, let me count the rule 1 violations...

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-08-23 20:02:20
201.   Nagman
No Galaxy Thoughts? Halftime in Carson, the game has gotten pretty chippy as the Chivas team is taking shots at Beckham, the cheap kind. Two red cards and a head butt end the first half. 0-0.
2007-08-23 20:02:30
202.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers have now passed the Braves in the wild card race. They're 1/2 game behind Philly to get into second place in what I'm now dubbing the Andy Ashby Division.
2007-08-23 20:03:11
203.   Bob Timmermann
But Eric Enders would like to hire him for the Dodgers.
2007-08-23 20:03:12
204.   Gen3Blue
Just got back from Boston, didn't even get the score, but it looks like Bills had a good one. Until tomorrow I am just going to assume this David Well signing is a joke. It doesn't matter anyway.(unless Colletti gave him a 3-5 year contract.) Our owner, with a stable of young talent, has shown he doesn't mind dumping millions on the most decrepid vets.
2007-08-23 20:04:49
205.   LogikReader
Nagman, Drew Carey can't be happy about this...
2007-08-23 20:07:30
206.   Marty
The Juan Pierre Magic Eightball has only one answer:

It is what it is

2007-08-23 20:12:57
207.   Sam DC
Start sweating Brock.
2007-08-23 20:13:29
208.   Greg Brock
I don't mind Darling. Especially when you've heard Keith Hernandez call a bunch of games.
2007-08-23 20:14:11
209.   Jon Weisman
See update to this post above for oldest-ever Dodgers.
2007-08-23 20:17:27
210.   Gen3Blue
191 Granted! Is there one near me:0)
2007-08-23 20:17:55
211.   Sam DC
207 All clear.
2007-08-23 20:18:09
212.   Greg Brock
Nats win!
2007-08-23 20:19:05
213.   Andrew Shimmin
I think Bill Macdonald is the only FSN personality I like less than I like Jeanne Zelasko.
2007-08-23 20:20:41
214.   bhsportsguy
212 So next monday thru wednesday, who will you be pulling for?
2007-08-23 20:20:49
215.   Bob Timmermann
The Nats now have the 11th best record in the NL. They're gunning for the Cardinals next!
2007-08-23 20:22:59
216.   bhsportsguy
213 So does that mean all the guys from TBDSS are above Jeanne? What about Kevin Kennedy?

And of course Bob's second favorite Trojan, Lindsay Soto.

2007-08-23 20:24:36
217.   Greg Brock
214 Depends on who is in the lineup. Sweeney, Gonzo, Ramon Martinez...And we have problems.
2007-08-23 20:25:09
218.   Gen3Blue
In the on deck circle?

I've driven to far and thunkem to hard and I'm going to bed. Good night and good morning.

2007-08-23 20:26:29
219.   LogikReader
What are we picking on Bill MacDonald for?
2007-08-23 20:26:58
220.   LogikReader
-- what are we picking on Jeanne Zelasko for????
2007-08-23 20:27:15
221.   Gagne55
202 Because Ashby pitched for the Dodgers Padres and Phillies?
2007-08-23 20:27:21
222.   LogikReader
...I know why we pick on TBDSS period
2007-08-23 20:27:28
223.   Bob Timmermann
My girlfriend did not attend USC. She just roots for them. All of her friends went there though.

Her eye surgery took approximately 10 minutes. She is laying at home with funky looking goggles on she told me.

She will take them off tomorrow to go pay homage to Mr. Carroll and his young charges.

2007-08-23 20:27:56
224.   Bob Timmermann
And the Braves too!
2007-08-23 20:31:59
225.   LogikReader
We're the kids on the Dodgers, hey!
We're the kids on the Dodgers, hey!

and we'll make the move to the wild card round, naaaaaa na na na na na...

being inspired by Kim Wilde is a weird thing

2007-08-23 20:32:18
226.   trainwreck
What happens if David Wells has back to back terrible starts?
2007-08-23 20:34:50
227.   Andrew Shimmin
216- Kevin Kennedy's pernicious influence is relatively contained. He doesn't show up except in places I know he's going to be, and, even then, is fairly easily avoided. I scarcely ever turn the channel on, except for discrete sporting events, so I miss out on all the non-game programming. I don't mind Soto. I'm not sure she's worth much, but it's fine.
2007-08-23 20:35:02
228.   Wilbert Robinson
182 Ahh! this is what I have to face this weekend. Actually I'm going to try to make it to all three games. I'll give a full report on Dodger related insults at Shea.
2007-08-23 20:36:36
229.   Andrew Shimmin
Bill Stoneman has a laptop in his suite! He's a secret Google-Boy!
2007-08-23 20:37:01
230.   LogikReader

What do you mean if?

2007-08-23 20:37:54
231.   trainwreck
So is this a Chivas crowd or a Galaxy crowd?
2007-08-23 20:38:16
232.   LogikReader
does such a thing exist as "East California"? I live here, I should know...
2007-08-23 20:38:30
233.   Wilbert Robinson
oh man the David Wells heckles are going to be great! I hadn't even thought of that. I'm starting to like this signing more on more he better be starting Sunday!
2007-08-23 20:42:07
234.   Andrew Shimmin
What would East California be? Blythe?
2007-08-23 20:43:09
235.   Bob Timmermann
There is no "East California", nor is there a "West California." That's what happens when you have a state that is really long north-south and not so wide east-west.

I'd have to check a map to see what the easternmost point in California is. It has to be on the Arizona border.

2007-08-23 20:44:35
236.   Andrew Shimmin
220- She talks through her nose, almost exclusively. And she says things like the people who scuffled for the Bonds 756 home run ball were the goats of the week. And she has a drunkeness about her, that's probably just an affect, but, anyway, isn't nearly so charming as she must think it is.
2007-08-23 20:45:39
237.   trainwreck
There is a place called Earp that looks like the closest to Arizona.
2007-08-23 20:45:53
238.   Andrew Shimmin
And yet there's a Central Valley.
2007-08-23 20:50:59
239.   LogikReader
"East California" would be like the "West Side" of Chicago.

-- or spy satellites over Canada

2007-08-23 20:52:16
240.   Eric Enders
The easternmost point in California is at Buckskin Mountain State Park, which is actually an Arizona state park. It's on a bend in the Colorado River about halfway between Lake Havasu City and Parker, AZ.
2007-08-23 20:52:26
241.   LogikReader
by the way, I blame 225 for all this
2007-08-23 20:53:04
242.   Bob Timmermann
And she pronounces her first name as two syllables when it should just be one.

My mom didn't like it when people used the two syllable pronunciation for her name.

2007-08-23 20:54:08
243.   Eric Enders
Oh, and I don't see what's wrong with Ron Darling as an announcer. He tells it like it is, doesn't deal in cliches, speaks in complete sentences, and offers actual insight into playing the game (as opposed to back-when-I-played Kevin Kennedy-style anecdotes). That automatically places him in the 98th percentile.
2007-08-23 20:55:17
244.   MJW101
If the Dodgers play it correctly Wells would only start 6 games before the end of the season.
2007-08-23 20:55:40
245.   LogikReader
I was being sarcastic about Macdonald:

...and now an interview with the little girl who sings the Take Me out to the Ballgame song

-- coming up next, a conversation with the ball boy

2007-08-23 20:58:41
246.   trainwreck
Eric Wynalda is demanding that the Galaxy fans boo.
2007-08-23 20:58:57
247.   Eric Enders
244 Replace "6" with "zero," and I agree.
2007-08-23 20:59:04
248.   Bob Timmermann
I don't cotton much to them fancy Ivy Leaguers.
2007-08-23 21:00:04
249.   trainwreck
He says booing is the best way for the team to get better.
2007-08-23 21:02:11
250.   FirstMohican
246, 249... I was just going to point that out, considering the 'boo' conversations that've happened here.

Not much experience w/ Wynalda, but not sure that I care too much for him. He seemed to get off on seeing Beckham being intentionally kicked in the stomach.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-08-23 21:03:04
251.   Andrew Shimmin
I still can't decide what to think about Reggie Willits. Is he for real? His SLG has come back down to earth, but he's still sporting a .397 OBP (and I've now seen him take two walks tonight, so it's even higher. He's blowing his 90th percentile PECOTA projection away. He's been a little BABIP lucky, but his LD rate is over 22%.
2007-08-23 21:06:13
252.   Greg Brock
250 I'm a very big Wynalda fan. He's a bit of a loudmouth, but he was a heck of a player, very smart, and says what's on his mind.

He absolutely torched Arena after Germany, as he should have. And he told Jim Rome to do something naughty, which Jim Rome deserved.

2007-08-23 21:09:27
253.   trainwreck
My only problem with what he said to Rome was that he was bragging about himself at the same time. Don't mess with me when I have some drinks man, I am crazy.
2007-08-23 21:12:06
254.   Greg Brock
253 True, but it was to Jim Rome.
2007-08-23 21:12:47
255.   trainwreck
Good point, good point.
2007-08-23 21:13:15
256.   JoeyP
Wells seems like a desperation move, but its really a no-lose situation for Ned.

If Wells does great, he gets all the credit. If he sucks, we'll at least Ned tried (in the eyes of the casual fan).

Personally, its ridiculous to spend 1mils on Wells, when that money could have been given to a draft pick, or the team could have just called up Orenduff and had him start in Sept.

2007-08-23 21:23:26
257.   King of the Hobos
251 He's been doing what he's doing since college. His average and walk rate have been more or less constant since then, as has his complete lack of power. And his minor league BABIP is actually slightly higher than his BABIP right now, so that, along with his liner rate, tells me a career line around .300/.400/.350 could be sustainable.

I'm really enjoying this PrimeTicket Angels broadcast, especially with no Hudler. The musical interludes are odd, but given the choice of this or Lyons post-Vin, I'm definitely all for this (although I'd welcome the likes of Langer and similar personalities).

2007-08-23 21:26:25
258.   LogikReader
"Dugout View" on Prime Ticket would be great even with the commercials, but taking them out, aside from "local breaks," really put this over the top. I hope they do this again!
2007-08-23 21:31:40
259.   Marty
244 If the Dodgers play it correctly, Wells would only start 0 starts before the end of the season.
2007-08-23 21:31:56
260.   gpellamjr
243 I don't know, man. I think Darling is terrible. The last time the Mets were at DS, he spent an inning and a half reminiscing about the food spreads in his day-- I don't remember any details, I spaced out in the middle of this rant.

With the arrogant rants the Mets' announcers go on, I tend to forget there's a baseball game on, because I become so irritated.

2007-08-23 21:34:33
261.   gpellamjr
What is "dugout view"?
2007-08-23 21:38:09
262.   Andrew Shimmin
257- True enough; I've taken to discounting Angel farm system hitting numbers more than I ought to, perhaps. If it weren't for Dustin Pedroia, he'd have a really good shot at ROY.
2007-08-23 21:45:30
263.   LogikReader
With the Dodgers playing a day game, Prime Ticket had an open slot to televise the Angels game tonight without the announcers. This was broadcast simultaneously with the normal Angels Broadcast on FSN West.
2007-08-23 21:46:09
264.   LogikReader
That's what "dugout view" was, in a nutshell. In between innings, Bill Macdonald would interview the various people involved with the game.
2007-08-23 21:46:43
265.   LogikReader
-- Terry Smith did not appreciate the interruption right before the end of the radio stop set :)
2007-08-23 21:53:49
266.   dzzrtRatt
If Wells has two bad starts in a row and is dumped, I don't think the Dodgers will pay him $1 mil.

I wonder how often Grady Little has held the power to put $178,000 in a man's pocket -- or not. Wells will probably be doing a lot of sucking up.

"That's right, Mr. Little. You said it. Here, let me get you a chair -- wait, that one's not comfy enough, here, sit on my belly."

2007-08-23 22:16:53
267.   Eric Enders
266 "What's wrong with you, boy? Ain't no chairs in the dugout. That's what the bench is for!"
2007-08-23 22:28:44
268.   Jon Weisman
New open chat thread at Screen Jam.
2007-08-23 22:47:33
269.   underdog
Man, my Thursday soccer team stinks. We need to learn to head-butt in retaliation, too. (Except in co-ed soccer most women don't like to head-butt.) And not only that, we're in the lower division and yet played a team that says they're lower division in skill but they should be in upper division. We only lost 3-1 but still. It's like if we were Morecambe and had to play Chelsea. Sort of.
2007-08-23 22:50:25
270.   King of the Hobos
266 What are the odds that Wells doesn't make all his starts, assuming perfect health? Unless he proves that's he's a far worse option than Tomko, I think he's pretty much in the rotation for good. Whoever has been making the decisions, be it Ned, Grady, or someone else, they've pretty much have shown that they're willing to stick with a veteran for a prolonged period, until he has thoroughly failed.
2007-08-23 22:51:35
271.   Greg Brock
269 You don't play coed soccer to win. You play coed soccer to stare at athletic chicks.

Get your priorities straight, man.

2007-08-23 22:51:42
272.   underdog
So the Dodgers game on Saturday is on Fox, eh? So two nationally televised games in a row. Stults and Wells. I'll be tickled if we split those two.
2007-08-23 22:53:10
273.   underdog
271 That, too. And I have a g/f, but she knows this is part of the deal. I had a couple of guys on last season's team who literally lost concentration because they were too busy flirting on the field.

They're no longer on my team.

I'm tough. I play to win, and then stare at athletic chicks.

2007-08-23 22:54:52
274.   Greg Brock
Play soccer
Defeat the opponent
Hear the lamentations of their women

That's why you play keeper in coed leagues. Bird-dogging the ladies while pretending to scan the field.

2007-08-23 22:55:02
275.   Xeifrank
I played against Eric Wynalda back in High School... He was pretty good.
vr, Xei
2007-08-23 23:01:20
276.   Bob Timmermann
In the backseat of my brother's car were some Eric Wynalda promotional videos.

He told me, "You know how sometime you see some little kids playing soccer and you see how bad everyone is? Eric Wynalda wasn't like that when he was a little kid."

2007-08-23 23:01:51
277.   bhsportsguy
Wild Card Race - Next 10 days.

San Diego
8/24-26 @ Philadelphia
8/27-30 Arizona
8/31-9/2 Los Angeles

8/24-26 San Diego
8/27-8/30 New York
8/31-9/2 @ Florida

Los Angeles
8/24-26 @ New York
8/27-29 Washington
8/31-9/2 @ San Diego

8/24-26 @ St. Louis
8/27-29 @ Florida
8/31-9/2 New York

8/24-26 @ San Francisco
8/27-29 @ Chicago
8/31-9/2 Pittsburgh

A nice 9 game stretch would probably keep the Dodgers in the Wild Card race, which is a lot better then it looked a week ago.

San Diego just began their toughest stretch, after they host the Dodgers, they go on the road against Arizona, Colorado and the Dodgers.

The Dodgers are not much better off, going to Chicago and San Francisco, going home to play San Diego and Arizona before their final road trip including a day/night doubleheader in Colorado and closing weekend in Arizona.

2007-08-23 23:08:47
278.   underdog
Nice pitcher's duel in Vegas tonight. 51s down 17-12 in the 9th. Hu and Young a combined 6 for 10. Bases loaded for 51s in the 9th with two out.
2007-08-23 23:10:53
279.   underdog
And... it's over. 17-12, combined still less runs than the Rangers scored the other night.
2007-08-23 23:13:55
280.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

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