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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

More on Mota
2007-08-23 22:45
by Jon Weisman

Born on February 18, 1938, Manny Mota batted .337 after his 40th birthday. He played in 92 games after turning 40 - 91 as a pinch-hitter and one in the field, on May 25, 1979, the night the Dodgers hit seven home runs against Cincinnati. (Tom Seaver and Frank Pastore allowed 17 runs in a combined 4 1/3 innings.)

Mota's last hit was an RBI single October 5, 1980 - the day the Dodgers tied the Houston Astros for first place in the season's 162nd game, forcing a playoff. (No Dave Goltz/Fernando Valenzuela comments below, please.)

Mota also had a memorable 162nd game in 1977: On October 2, he hit his 31st and final career home run, pinch-hitting for Bobby Castillo (the man whom legend says taught Fernando Valenuela the screwball was making his first career major-league start). The opposing pitcher? Mr. James Rodney Richard, who struck out 14 Dodgers in a 6-3 victory.

His last stolen base came just over a week earlier, on September 23, 1977. With two out in the top of the 11th inning at Houston, Mota pinch-hit for Ron Washington with Glenn Burke on third base, and walked. He stole second - perhaps a concession to make sure Burke didn't try to come home. Lee Lacy struck out, and the Dodgers lost in the 12th.

Mota's penultimate game in the field, final career start and final game with more than one plate appearance was way back on July 12, 1977 at Houston. Mota singled to lead off the top of the second and grounded out to lead off the top of the fourth. Obscure but memorable Dodger John Hale pinch-hit for Mota in the top of the fifth and homered.

Mota's last complete game was June 22, 1976. He went 1 for 3 in a 6-0 shutout loss to the Reds' Fred Norman.

Mota's final error came in 1972, a season before he made his first and only All-Star Game. (Mota was batting .351 at the 1973 All-Star break.)

Mota's first career hit came April 21, 1962 - an RBI single in the eighth inning for the Giants. Mota entered that game as a pinch-hitter for Chuck Hiller in the top of the third.

Mota made his major league debut on April 16, 1962, flying out to center in a 19-8 Giants victory. His first career pinch-hitting at-bat was the following day, grounding out for Eddie Bowman in the ninth inning of an 8-7 loss. Both games, the opponent was the Dodgers.

You know who else appeared as a pinch-hitter for San Francisco that day? Willie Mays, Willie McCovey and Don Larsen.

Comments (246)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-08-23 23:22:18
1.   underdog
Always and forever my favorite pinch hitter.


Meanwhile, comment from a Mets Blog (Amazin' Avenue):

If it makes you guys feel any better

David Wells signed with the Dodgers and will face us Sunday night. Good times a-comin' boys, mighty good times...

2007-08-23 23:24:49
2.   bhsportsguy
Game 3, 1977 NL Playoffs. I was listening to that game on the radio at school.

I can only imagine if DT existed then, what people would have been typing when Vic Davalillo laid down his two out bunt single.

And then Manny hit the ball that Luzinski couldn't catch, eventually Vic scored all the way from first and Manny got to third.

I am sure I saw it then but I know that the general consenus was that Davey Lopes was thrown out on his grounder that scored Manny to tie the game.

Bill Russell got his first of two big hits in playoffs against the Phillies, driving home Lopes who got to second on a bad pickoff throw.

I did not see Game 4 either, but I listened as I was told that no one thought the game should have been played due to the rain but Johnny B hit a homer and Tommy John won the game to send the Dodgers to the Series.

2007-08-23 23:26:05
3.   Greg Brock
I didn't see Mota as a player, but he, Perranoski, Amalfitano, and Dodger Dogs were as big a part of my Dodgers childhood as anything.
2007-08-23 23:29:23
4.   bhsportsguy
3 Just wondering, was the Jack Clark home run your first (unfortunately) Dodger memory.
2007-08-23 23:31:50
5.   Bob Timmermann
1977 NLCS Game 3 DT thread:

Davalillo? Well. The game is over.

Guy 2:
Why do we even keep this guy around? Why not use Mota?

Guy 3:
Just another loss

(15 minutes pass)
We got lucky to win that one.

Guy 2:
The Dodgers didn't deserve to win that one.

Guy 3:
We won because Ozark was more incompetent than Tommy.

2007-08-23 23:32:36
6.   Greg Brock
4 Why, yes. Yes it was.
2007-08-23 23:35:42
7.   Eric Enders
3 I echo Brock. I just turned 30 also, so we probably have the same childhood Dodger memories.

I love Manny Mota. But my all-time favorite pinch hitter is Dave Hansen.

2007-08-23 23:39:32
8.   bhsportsguy
6 Actually, that's interesting to me because I don't really have any big sports memories when I was that young, I do recall Jerry West's half court shot but its hard to say if I knew about at that time, it is possible because I do know I followed that series.

Probably it would be the beginning of the 33 game winning streak in 1971, I think that was first time I really followed the Lakers.

Started following the Dodgers then too.

2007-08-23 23:41:14
9.   underdog
Hansen was awesome, too. He was money as a PH.

5 Hah. That's perfect. Don't forget - Guy 4: I really hope Al Campanis is out of here after tonight. He's a great guy but, what're they gonna do, keep him around for another 10 years?

Guy 5: I think Russell should be batting 2nd.

2007-08-23 23:48:51
10.   Bob Timmermann
Mota's career OPS+ as a pinch hitter - 100
Hansen's career OPS+ as a pinch hitter - 93

Other notable pinch hitters that there's data for:

Lenny Harris - 97
Mark Sweeney - 90
Gates Brown - 81
Greg Gross - 78

It's not an easy job.

2007-08-23 23:51:29
11.   Dangerous Bri
Being 31 my only memory of Manny is trying to collect his lithograph from the 76 stations. For some reason in my memory his was the last one my dad and I found, driving all the way from Pasadena to Arcadia trying to find a 76 station with one left. My other memory from that time frame is sitting in the top deck for opening day in 1982.
2007-08-24 00:28:33
12.   PDH5204
5 If I can disown the first comment from the man, I'll play Guy 3, I mean, what was Luzinski doing in left field to misplay the Mota fly ball? And by "disown", I mean to say that while I wasn't thinking "just another loss", there was that slight chilling breeze of despair in the air...

But if not me, maybe Larry Bowa can play Guy 3, but again, with the "disowning" of the prior comment:

"I never understood that[.] All year long Danny is taking Bull out for a defensive replacement late in the game. Sure as hell, a fly ball goes out there that Jerry Martin just sucks up. If he's out there, we win that game. Danny had some excuse about getting Bull another at-bat in the ninth inning. But weren't even going to bat in the ninth inning if we won."

2007-08-24 00:33:22
13.   Greg Brock
Being a Dodger fan, for me, has been a lot like being a UCLA football and baseball fan. I don't quite understand why we aren't a monster program, but I accept it. Sure, I get upset, but it is what it is. Everybody wonders what is going on, and I just go along with it.
2007-08-24 01:36:34
14.   PDH5204
13 Why "accept" it? Our problem is that we really don't have the "tradition", I mean, outside of the alum and loyal fans, who really remembers the bowl years? What rankles me about Terry is that the Rose Bowl teams weren't even his best, as they overachieved. '87 and '88 could have been the start of the tradition, but weren't. Ironically enough, that Bruins Nation aka FireKarl Dorrell website has a piece titled "Karl Dorrell's Mediocre God Father", with the godfather being one Terry Donohue, and it is true that Karl's first coaching was under Terry as a grad assistant. From that same piece, here is a part of the roster of the '87 team:

Gaston Green, Ken Norton, Flipper Anderson, Dennis Price, James Washington, Mel Farr, Troy Aikman, Darryl Henley, Carnell Lake, Eric Ball, Jim Wahler, Marvcus Patton, Mike Lodish, Charles Arbuckle, Frank Cornish, Eric Turner and Roman Phifer

Aikman, Norton, Lake and Turner would eventually be Pro Bowl bound, and Patton and Phifer each had rather meaningful careers in the NFL that went beyond a decade of service [one season for the Skins, Patton was on the field for every single defensive snap and so endeared himself to many of their faithful]. Lodish and Wahler played for a while, and Flipper temporarily had the record for most yards receiving in a game. Don't know what would have become of Henley owing to his off the field concaine conspiracy thing, and James Washington was so-so in the NFL but did have that one illustrious game in the Super Bowl.

The '87 team should have been national champions and probably the '88 team as well. But in '87 we couldn't beat 'SC and ended up playing a mediocre Florida team that had a freshman by the name of Emmitt Smith and we squeezed out that 20-16 victory. And in '88 we went 10-2, 6-2 in the conference [lost to WSU and 'SC]. Those were supposed to be the golden years that set us up and started the tradition but weren't. When I hear the Bruin Nation speak of our "tradition" I am otherwise reminded to simply look at the results of the NFL draft by year. Terry had 3 great recruiting classes and the NFL draft reflects that, and the drafts before tell us that we really never had a team of superior souls, and the drafts following tell us that while things were better after than before, they still never rose again to what should have been the golden years.

I otherwise think, well, look at the UCLA athletics department website. When you're best overall, why care all that much about the "monster" program in football? And with a single national championship to our credit in football, it's not like we can say that the football team is the reason why we lead all schools in NCAA championships. That might explain why there is no "monster" program.

2007-08-24 04:27:53
15.   overkill94
Carrying over from the last thread...

I think I have the distinction of being the first person to see McDonald pitch in person. It was back in May (Mother's Day weekend) when he made a start in Visalia. I'd never heard of him, but his stuff impressed me. I assumed he was just doing well because he was old for the level, but finding out that he was recently converted back to pitching made him more intriguing. I hope he can make an impact next year, he has legitimate #3 starter stuff (maybe even #2 if he can make the leap).

2007-08-24 06:41:48
16.   PlayTwo
I can't add much to the recall of others but it was Maury Wills' birthday (10/2). I think of Mota spinning off of those hard hitting Pirates teams of Stargell, Alou and Clendenon. I hope my memory is right but even if not the feeling is the same.
2007-08-24 07:28:51
17.   Disabled List
Being a Dodger fan, for me, has been a lot like being a UCLA football and baseball fan. I don't quite understand why we aren't a monster program, but I accept it.

I feel the exact same way, except for the "but I accept it" part. I don't understand why a team like the Red Sox can sign underperformers like JD Drew and Julio Lugo to catastrophic contracts, and everything works out just fine for them. But the Dodgers sign one little $45 million mistake to play centerfield, and it sinks the franchise.

The Dodgers should always be one of those "perennial contenders". We sorta used to be, but we're not anymore. I don't understand it, and I don't accept it.

Damn Barry Bonds and that pirouette!

2007-08-24 07:29:54
18.   Ken Noe
14 I'm a Virginia Tech grad, but I always root for UCLA over USC because (a) I root for public vs. private. (b) UCLA has better unis, and (c) OJ went to USC. Of course, given Michael Vick's recent idiocy, maybe I should stop at (b).
2007-08-24 07:48:59
19.   Ken Noe
17 Why? We have wiser heads than mine on this site, but this is my too-long analysis. Start with Al Campanis wrecking his career with stupid racial comments, followed by the Fred Claire years. Poor Fred never met a over-the-hill former All-Star he didn't like. (Fred would love Nomar and Gonzo). Then the sale to FOX, whose management of the LADs introduced veritable chaos. Some stability developed at the end thanks to Logan White and the still underrated Dan Evans (still my favorite modern GM), but then boom, a new owner again. Vlad went to the Angels because McCourt couldn't get his act together. Not knowing what to do, Frank fired Evans, hired DePo, fired DePo, and hired Ned. We now have a half veteran, half young homegrown team, which to me reflects confusion more than anything else.

When you look at it this way, this has been a franchise involved in constant and often destructive change for two decades. The "Dodger Way to Play" has mean all sorts of things at any given moment, but usually has translated into spending too much money on overpriced veterans, going back to Strawberry and Davis. What LA needs to succeed is stable ownership, stable management that relies as much as possible on homegrown products, and the avoidance of organizational panic. Whether Ned should remain as GM remains to be seen--I think he's weak on points two and three. Not all change is bad. But McCourt needs to hang on to White and Ng for all its worth, and someday Ng needs to move into the GM's office.

2007-08-24 07:59:58
20.   LeeLacy
The 1977 season was the first one I really followed closely. So the memory of Mota's pinch hit in Game 3 of the NLCS is one that's still deeply embedded in my brain. I remember I convinced my mom I was too "sick" to go to my 2nd grade classes that day, thus allowing me to watch the game live. And I also recall the agony of watching Burt Hooton walk batter after batter after batter in the early innings. But Mota's heroics (as well as Davalillo's) saved the day.

Ah, the memories ...

2007-08-24 08:02:19
21.   Bob Timmermann
Could it have been worse? The Padres signed Cassey Fossum to a minor league deal.
2007-08-24 08:05:18
22.   Gen3Blue
I let this darn discussion send me to Baseball-reference because my memories were getting hazy about Niedenfuer and his home runs. I was picturing two different series with Clark and Smith involved. When I found '85 the full horror returned to me. I am sure I repressed these memories to avoid pain. Two successive games - Two devastating late inning homers and I remember the Ozzie one was the most shocking to me. I can't even remember if they were walk-offs and don't care. It was a horrible fall to be a D's fan.
2007-08-24 08:36:01
23.   bearlurker
19 Nice post Ken. I agree about Dan Evans. He had absolutely nothing to work with because of the mess created by Malone. I think I saw some figures that the Dodgers spent less than all but a handful of teams in free agency during his tenure.

Then, if the rumors are true, he's primed to sign Vlad--arguably the best free agent signing of the last several years--but gets it taken away from him by Selig/McCourt, then gets scapegoated out of town. The Kevin Brown trade was a real nice move, as were many of his non-roster invitee moves.

2007-08-24 08:51:55
24.   jasonungar07
But the Dodgers sign one little $45 million mistake to play centerfield, and it sinks the franchise.


I don't think this is true (I am no fan of Pierre by any means). The dodgers this year for me anyways have way more problems than just one light hitting/light fielding CF.

We started the year with 3-4-5 guys who were old and past their primes and all but one have not acting like 3-4-5 hole hitters at all and the one that is (Kent) is probably one of the weaker 4 hole hitters in baseball.

We started the year with 2/5 of our rotation as potential injury risks and 2 of 5 are not throwing anymore. The back ups have been pretty bad (Tomko, Hendu)as well.

The sinking of the franchise for me is Nomar, Gonzo and players like that instead of Ethier and Loney and Kemp playing daily and Chad throwing as a starter from day 1.

On another note I don't know when it was because I was so young, but one of my first at dodger stadium memories was the day Mota became the all time leading pinch hitter. I was lucky enough to be at that game.

2007-08-24 08:55:53
25.   Jon Weisman

Don Bankhead feature.

2007-08-24 09:19:55
26.   Jon Weisman
New posts at Screen Jam.
2007-08-24 09:20:37
27.   ToyCannon
I was a huge Mota fan as he become a Dodger not long after I moved back here. What I remember most are the gazillion kids he had and it seemed like they all played pro ball but none could make it to the show. I counted 23 Mota's who played in the minors and another 6 who played in the majors. How many of them were related to Manny?

I was lucky enough to be in college so I caught that game on TV. To this day I agree with Larry Bowa, what was Luzinski doing in LF. Always seems strange to me how managers deviate from the norm during the playoffs.

2007-08-24 09:26:13
28.   LogikReader

They may not have made it to the show, but one of them made it to the Angels broadcast booth.

2007-08-24 09:28:42
29.   LeeLacy
22 Those bombs given up by Niedenfuer were, without question, the most painful moments I've suffered through as a Dodger fan.

In the 9th inning of Game 5, I distinctly remember that as Ozzie Smith began his at bat, NBC flashed up a graphic saying that he had never hit a homer from the left side. I still blame NBC for jinxing the game for the Dodgers by showing that.

2007-08-24 09:33:39
30.   jasonungar07
252. Greg Brock
250 I'm a very big Wynalda fan. He's a bit of a loudmouth, but he was a heck of a player, very smart, and says what's on his mind.

He absolutely torched Arena after Germany, as he should have. And he told Jim Rome to do something naughty, which Jim Rome deserved.


From last thread..

I just wanted to say that I played club soccer with Eric for 5 years, we were on the same High School team (he was a senior, I was a sophomore, Cobi Jones was on our team as well) and Eric and I were pretty good friends. I was his protege if you will, we both were strikers and we went 26-1 loosing to Mater Dei (me, cobi and our center mid were hurt, and eric was seriously tripled teamed) but in any case I can tell you guys the Eric you hear, see etc is the real Eric. He has always been the way he is. People can like it or not, no biggie, but he speaks his mind, is a bit of a hot head and can be very arrogant but usually not in an off putting way. He is a great guy though ,a family guy and I am proud of his accomplishments. The sad thing is he was not the best player I ever played with, there was alot of talent in Ventura County back when I played (85-90) and there was a kid named Billy Krantz who was smarter, faster, had better field vision and was a much better passer than Eric. Eric was the best pure goalscorer I ever played with or against though. Cobi at the time was not even one of the top 5 players on our High School team.

2007-08-24 09:36:38
31.   LogikReader

The modern day equivalent of Game 5 of the '85 NLCS would be if Juan Pierre hit a grand slam in the Bottom of the 9th in a similar series.

2007-08-24 09:44:54
32.   Bob Timmermann
"Pain, you don't even know the meaning of pain."

The end of the 1982 season was more painful to me. And I think any of our readers alive in 1962 would tell you that that year was the nadir.

As for me, I got over 1985 pretty fast.

2007-08-24 09:48:05
33.   LogikReader
Don't worry Bob, 2002 more than made up for '82... at least for me... I was only a few months old in '82
2007-08-24 09:51:52
34.   Marty
You want abject depression? The end of 1966 was it for me. The Orioles have a chance? Inconceivable!
2007-08-24 09:53:01
35.   Jon Weisman
Eric Young picked Vin Scully for Dodger Face.
2007-08-24 09:54:27
36.   LogikReader
Bob I had another question: The records indicate that Games 5 and 6 of the '85 NLCS were played on Monday and Wednesday afternoon. How did NBC manage to get any kind of audience with the games on in the middle of the day?

I admit: a naive question.

2007-08-24 09:55:59
37.   Jon Weisman
36 - Imagine a world in which almost no one had cable ...
2007-08-24 09:58:38
38.   Bob Timmermann
Some of us just skipped class in college.

Game 5 had a couple of rain delays. Or at least one. It took a while.

All the postseason games used to be during the day. That's just the way it was.

Now people want them back during the day, which to me, is a bad idea. It's sort of like the idea they used to have of making sports "pure" by forcing people to be amateurs. Which all it really did was force people to either cheat or force poor people to give up sports.

If you put all the baseball games on during the day, you are rewarding people who are in a position where they can skip work.

2007-08-24 09:59:34
39.   Bob Timmermann
Also, until very recently, baseball tried to avoid having a playoff game on a Monday night at all costs because they thought they would get killed in the ratings by MNF.
2007-08-24 10:23:47
40.   bhsportsguy
38 On May 16, 1980 if you lived outside of Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Portland or Seattle, you probably saw a primetime lineup on CBS consisting of reruns of The Incredible Hulk, The Dukes of Hazzard, and Dallas. At 11:30, you could watch on tape delay, Game 6 of the 1980 Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and Philadelphia 76ers.
2007-08-24 10:27:15
41.   jasonungar07
Did you guys see the new Rosenthal article?

An underachieving team typically produces clubhouse discontent, and the Dodgers are no different. Several players privately question Little's lineup shuffling and in-game strategy. Little clearly is relying too heavily on catcher Russell Martin, who has started 115 of 127 games.

"There's nothing I would like more than to have one set (lineup) every single day," Little says. "But it's been hard for us to establish that here this season."

2007-08-24 10:28:10
42.   Humma Kavula
38 Not so much a disagreement as the flip side of the coin:

Baseball may have an issue with its appeal, or lack thereof, to young fans. When the broadcast of a championship game begins at 8 -- first pitch, what, 8:30 or even 9:00 -- it means that the game ends after 11:00, even close to midnight, on a school night.

I don't think that's the only cause for baseball's young-fan problem, if it has one, which it may or may not... but if it does have that problem, the championship game time thing sure doesn't help.

I'm also not arguing that games should be moved to the daytime, but I am saying that keeping things as they are has a price.

2007-08-24 10:29:07
43.   Jon Weisman
40 - How I remember that. We were going to Carmel that weekend, and trying to get score updates of the Game 6 as best as we could. Didn't even think there was a chance the Lakers would win - we were all holding out hope for Kareem's return in Game 7. It wasn't until about 20 years later that I finally got to see Game 6 on ESPN Classic.
2007-08-24 10:30:15
44.   Humma Kavula
41 Interesting. The next question should be: Why has that been hard to establish?
2007-08-24 10:30:25
45.   dzzrtRatt
32 I've attended one playoff game in my life. Game 5, 1985. I've only seen one home run that was more of a no-doubter than Clark's. Man did he hit it hard. Anyone needing proof that Lasorda was a grossly overrated manager who squandered his luck more often than not...Game 5.

But I agree with Bob, '82 was worse. I remember exactly where I was when I heard the call of Morgan's homer. I was in SF to watch the Friday game -- which the Dodgers won on a grand slam by Rick Monday and a CG shutout by Jerry Reuss -- and then had to hear the rest on TV/radio with my Giant-fan brother (luckily his deranged Giant fan children weren't born yet). I was, however, alone in my car making the turn onto Lincoln Blvd. on the eastern tip of Golden Gate Park when that fat tub of goo served it up. I almost crashed.

2007-08-24 10:30:46
46.   ToyCannon
I remember walking home after school and pearing at TV's in houses during the walk home to get glimpses of the 74 series. At least that is what my memory says. Maybe it was just the playoffs.

Sadly they were right in that assumption.

2007-08-24 10:31:03
47.   regfairfield
Sorry to bring back the Wells talk, but is it confirmed that we're picking up Wells' bonuses?
2007-08-24 10:33:27
48.   Hallux Valgus
41 "There's nothing I would like more than to have one set (lineup) every single day," Little says. "But it's been hard for us to establish that here this season."

When there's nothing I would like more than to get X, and I'm the one responsible for getting X, I tend to get it. Yesterday, I hadn't eaten all day, so I was really hungry. There was nothing I wanted more than to get a cheeseburger. What was I to do? I went to Fatburger. It really wasn't that hard at all.

2007-08-24 10:34:17
49.   ToyCannon
The Daily news said we were negotiating the payment of each of the starts but that it would be for less then the Padres contract.
Instead of payment for each start they ought to pay him for the value of each start. I'd be happy to give him 200,000 for each start where he lasts 6 innings and gives up fewer then 4 runs. A kick in the butt for anything less.
2007-08-24 10:35:27
50.   Humma Kavula
48 Sure. But say you had a wife/girlfriend with you who said, "I'm also hungry, and I don't want Fatburger. What's more, I don't want you to eat Fatburger, because I think it's bad for you. I think we both should eat at Juan Pierre's Nothing But Salads. And if you don't, I'm breaking up with you right now."

It might not have been so easy.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-08-24 10:35:27
51.   Jon Weisman
Russell Martin has a .775 OPS in August and a .754 OPS since the All-Star Break. How much better would Martin do with more rest? How would playing Lieberthal more have improved the Dodgers' fortunes, since his numbers would bring down the team's overall offense at the position?

I know it's painful to see Martin out there so much, and it's an easy think to pick on, but I still haven't seen honest answers to these questions.

2007-08-24 10:35:51
52.   bhsportsguy
42 One of football's advantages over baseball as far as popularity is the schedule, short time frame, one game a week and on weekends. The Super Bowl, which rarely is even a good game, gets a prime spot, 6:30 EST.

Baseball's other competition as far as championship games, is the NBA, which gets it share of criticism for its game times. But its harder now for baseball to compete with other sports. Back in the '80s, there was only one college football game available on Saturday (yes kids, one) and when the Rams and Raiders were here, you got maybe 2 games on Sunday and of course, no Direct TV.

With so many choices, I think the networks and sponsors would want the largest possilbe audiences for their product and unfortunately, that is at night.

2007-08-24 10:37:11
53.   ToyCannon
But you didn't have InNOut & Burger King complaining when you didn't choose their cheesburger. Nor did their agents call you and complain about screwing with the value of his clients.
2007-08-24 10:37:25
54.   gibsonhobbs88
27 - Manny! I have memories of him back in the summer of 75, though the Dodgers finished a distant second that year to the powerful Reds, me and friend were able to attend several Dodger games that summer with my Dad taking us and dropping us off where the Police Academy had a softball field before the ticket gate and his parents would pick us up from the game. Saw Manny on two successive Friday night games win games with a pinch hit in extra innings. I remember Scully used to say "Manny can get up on Christmas morning and hit a line single to right." Ahh the memories!!
2007-08-24 10:38:28
55.   ToyCannon
Whoops, should have refreshed. Didn't mean to step on 50 toes.
2007-08-24 10:40:34
56.   dzzrtRatt
48 Exactly. I was just about to post something similar.

Donnelly makes this comparison between looking for offense and looking for fish in a lake. Quoting Jim Leyland, he says the Dodgers have been trying to "change lakes" in search of more offense, shifting the lineup.

Wednesday night's lineup is full of fish! It is a well-stocked lake. Lots of trophies that day. But then they changed lakes the next day, figuring they could do better with Martinez in the lineup instead of Loney, and LuGo instead of Ethier.

Is Donnelly just dumb or is he lying? Little isn't putting the best offensive lineup out there more than once or twice a week, and it has nothing to do with catching fish, it has to do with kowtowing to veterans and their salaries.


2007-08-24 10:40:53
57.   Eric Enders
"Dodger Face" sounds like an insult heard in Bay Area schoolyards.

Ozzie Smith and Jack Clark were my first baseball memories, although I missed them because the games were played in the middle of the day on a weekday. That was the first year I really started to pay attention to baseball -- Pedro Guerrero became my favorite. I was in third grade. After school, I went to this lady's house who would babysit me until my parents got off work. No TV there. I remember my dad picking me up that day and before even saying hello, asking him if the Dodgers won. Before the words even got out of his mouth, I could tell the answer by the pained look on his face.

2007-08-24 10:41:11
58.   grandcosmo
My biggest memory of Manny Mota was talking to him in the Dodger dugout before a Phillies game (I was a winner in the Dodger/Pepsi Skills contest so I had the run of the clubhouse and dugout before the game) I asked him if today was the day he was going to break the pinch hitting record. As he was answering a ball came whistling into the dugout and hit him in the back as he was reaching over my head to get something from the shelf on the wall of the dugout. He yelled out in pain and started yelling curses in Spanish and my friend and I quickly moved to the other end of the bench.

He got the record a few days later.

2007-08-24 10:41:54
59.   ToyCannon
Why couldn't Leiberthal post a 750 OPS if given enough playing time that he wasn't a rust machine every time he starts? His career OPS is 774.

Were not talking some piece of scrap here.

2007-08-24 10:43:14
60.   bryanf
51 To me it is not so much a question of how not resting Martin is hurting him or the team this season, but how it may hurt them in the future. Of course, proof is difficult to come by when it comes to this, but it is hard to argue that starting this many games behind the plate isn't going to take its toll on the young catcher...even if it doesn't show up this season. In fact it may never show up, but I see plenty of positives for resting him once in a while...especially if Loney and Kemp and Ethier and the other "kids" get "rested" even when they probably don't need it as much.
2007-08-24 10:44:30
61.   Jon Weisman
That Rosenthal article basically reads like this:

There was little the Dodgers could do at the deadline, and they probably did the right thing in hanging on to their young players.

It says, "It could be that 2007 turns out to be a season of transition, a season in which the Dodgers were both too young and too old to fulfill their expectations. If that's the worst-case scenario, so be it: The franchise could become a force for the next decade if it continues to produce players such as first baseman James Loney and outfielder Matt Kemp."

It concludes, "The present isn't so bad. The future remains bright. All teams should have the Dodgers' problems."

So why did I feel such tension while I was reading it?

2007-08-24 10:46:00
62.   Eric Enders
Bob says, "Now people want them back during the day, which to me, is a bad idea."

Wouldn't it be OK to play day games on the weekends, though? There's nothing more useless than a playoff game on a Saturday or Sunday night. That's my main quibble.

I don't see anything wrong with playing the occasional playoff game on a weekday afternoon, either. We all have our nostalgic stories about skipping class to watch the games. Why deprive future generations of that?

2007-08-24 10:46:00
63.   ToyCannon
Make that Lieberthal.
2007-08-24 10:46:49
64.   alex 7
a funny post I stumbled on at baseball think factory while they were making fun of a horrible Andy Rooney baseball article.

-------It's a good thing there's not retrosheet for our lives.

Saturday, April 17, 1991 (N) at [REDACTED]

11 PM: GUAPO ENTERED PARTY AT 138 COLLEGE AVENUE; Guapo approached Julie McCracken; Guapo struck out looking; Guapo approached Leigh Allen; Guapo struck out; Guapo spilled drink all over Allen in the process; Guapo approached Kristina Paige; Guapo struck out; Guapo ejected from Party by Paige's boyfriend; 0 H, 3 E. Guapo 0, World infinity.

12 AM: GUAPO ENTERED DORM; Guapo approached by Francine McDermott; McDermott was visibly intoxicated; Guapo reached on an error by McDermott; Guapo threw a wild pitch; Guapo ejected by McDermott; 1 H, 2 E. Guapo 1, World infinity.

2007-08-24 10:50:44
65.   ToyCannon
I just think the weather has to be considered. Given the length of the post season these days the weather at night can be brutal for players and fans. Day games negate some of that.
Can't wait for a Chicago/Cleveland World series being playing in November at night. That should really bring out the skills.
2007-08-24 10:50:48
66.   Jon Weisman
60 - Yes, that's fair on that level.

59 - He could. Then again, he might not. Either way, I don't think the Dodgers' 2007 fortunes improve measurably.

2007-08-24 10:50:51
67.   LogikReader
Ken Rosenthal is also the guy who seemed insistent that the Dodgers would deal said youngsters for Texiera.

it could be much worse, folks...

2007-08-24 10:52:40
68.   bhsportsguy
62 Do you think college and pro football would dilute the potential audience.

Now, if its the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers, maybe it doesn't but you are giving up the Midwest and the South, especially on Saturdays.

2007-08-24 10:53:57
69.   rockmrete
"There's nothing I would like more than to have one set (lineup) every single day," Little says. "But it's been hard for us to establish that here this season."

That reads to me that Ned is interfering with Little's managing of the line up, and field positioning.

2007-08-24 10:55:29
70.   bhsportsguy
I think the problem is that Russell is probably going to catch every game Chad, Brad and Derek pitch because of his relationship with them.

I guess Lieberthal is going to catch this weekend, probably Saturday afternoon, it will give Russell almost two days off since they play a night game on Sunday.

2007-08-24 10:57:39
71.   Eric Enders
68 Maybe so. I see that as a worthwhile tradeoff for kids being able to watch the games and becoming future fans.

It's the classic choice of the long-term payoff vs. the short-term gain. Baseball chooses the short-term gain every time, because owners generally don't own their teams more than 10 or 12 years.

2007-08-24 10:58:45
72.   FirstMohican
69 - I'd guess Little's referring to players w/ slumps like Nomar etc. It would be a wierd thing for Grady to take a shot at Ned in the papers.
2007-08-24 10:58:48
73.   Eric Enders
69 That reads to me that Nomar and Kent and Furcal have been hurt.
2007-08-24 10:58:54
74.   bhsportsguy
69 No, it reads to me like he is trying to play his vets with the kids and that no one ever secured certain positions like 3B (in his opinion).

If everyone was healthy, his lineup would consist of Loney, Kent, Furcal, Nomar, Pierre, and then some combo of Kemp, LuGo and Ethier. August saw Kent go down for a week, Nomar go on the DL and then just trying to get some bench guys some at-bats while resting some players.

2007-08-24 11:00:53
75.   bhsportsguy
71 True, I think baseball relies on the fact that kids still play the game and that local television and attendance helps with building the future.
2007-08-24 11:01:21
76.   Bob Timmermann
I would think college and pro football would kill baseball playoff day games on Saturdays and Sundays.

The last World Series day game was Game 6 of the 1987 World Series and a friend of mine was upset because it was keeping him from watching UCLA play Cal.

2007-08-24 11:01:24
77.   Eric Enders
You can tell which players bh likes and which he doesn't by paying attention to whom he calls by first name in posts like 70 .
2007-08-24 11:02:26
78.   silverwidow
LuGo getting regular ABs is a huge problem. If the teams fails down the stretch, this will likely be one of the main reasons.
2007-08-24 11:02:36
79.   Bob Timmermann
Also, Fox shows the NFL on Sundays, so any day games for the playoffs on Fox are a complete nonstarter.

So that would leave Saturdays.

2007-08-24 11:04:32
80.   bryanf
Not sure if Crasnick's article has been linked, but I enjoyed the read.

2007-08-24 11:07:07
81.   Eric Enders
76 Then your friend's a dope.

Look, why should baseball kowtow to football? This is freaking baseball, people. The National Pastime. If somebody has a problem because they're going to miss some silly football game, then tough. Miss your stupid football game then. Maybe eventually enough people would miss their football games, and baseball would start pushing around football again instead of vice versa.

And really, to avoid football conflicts entirely, you'd have to schedule all the baseball games on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday afternoons. But Bob thinks that's a bad idea too. So we can't play when it conflicts with football, and we also can't play during the only times it doesn't conflict with football.

Ah, screw it. Just cancel the playoffs.

2007-08-24 11:07:13
82.   bhsportsguy
77 According to that reasoning, this post 74 must mean I only like Nomar, thought I guess LuGo uses both names.

But there is something to that in the sense that Mike Lieberthal has played so infrequently and really hasn't had a star moment all year, I don't really have an attachment to him like the kids or vets who have been here for a while or who have had their share of nice moments this year like Luis Gonzalez.

I think I either type Juan Pierre or Pierre or JP, I rarely type Juan.

2007-08-24 11:14:52
83.   surfing slug
Ahh - Mota's last game in the field. Lopes got hbp, Lopes jogged down to first, benches cleared, Lopes stayed on first with hands on hips chewing bubble gum and blowing bubbles. Great times!

Long time lurker, first time poster.

2007-08-24 11:16:01
84.   LeeLacy
32 , 45 1982 is a very close second for me in terms of painful moments. My dad and I listened to the game on the radio as our family drove back to Utah after a vacation in Southern California. We were near Las Vegas when Joe Morgan hit his 3-run homer off of Terry Forster. Later, as we heard Vin announce the final out of the game, my dad and I just sat there in stunned silence; I was close to tears, knowing that I would never see Garvey and Cey in Dodger Blue again.

Going back to Game 5 of the NLCS for a second .... I seem to recall that late in that game, with the score tied, Steve Sax struck out with 1 out and the bases loaded, and that when he returned to the dugout, a Cards fan threw a beer on him, which sent Sax into a fury. Am I remembering this correctly?

2007-08-24 11:21:20
85.   LogikReader

I agree with everything you said, but it looks like Football is here to say and the ratings show it.

My friend, football boy, suggested this: Cut the number of games in the baseball season and something like have the postseason a month earlier so football would have fewer conflicts. I yelled him out of the room.

If anything, the NFL season should be moved back a month... sometimes I tire of the hype.

2007-08-24 11:26:47
86.   JoeyP
I agree about Dan Evans. He had absolutely nothing to work with because of the mess created by Malone. I think I saw some figures that the Dodgers spent less than all but a handful of teams in free agency during his tenure.

I dont agree.
Evans orchestrated a horrible salary swap in the Brian Jordan/Odalis Perez for Sheffield deal. Trading the Dodgers best player for virtually nothing was a killer. Its like a baseball version of the Shaq for Odom deal.

He also failed to move some prospects when they were at their peak value. The signings of Fred McGriff, Juan Encarnacion, and the trading of Kevin Brown (with the year Brown was coming off of), was really bad.

Its hard to contend when you deal Kevin Brown/Gary Sheffield (the superstars) and fail to get back equal value. Mitch Kupchak is finding that out.

2007-08-24 11:27:52
87.   Eric Enders
From earlier re Manny Mota's sons, two of them did make the majors for a cup of coffee.
2007-08-24 11:30:26
88.   dzzrtRatt
Ah, I think we have to face the fact that, when it comes to TV, baseball is football's b----, especially by October which is the heart of the NCAA season, and the midpoint of the NFL. Sundays you could possibly work around with the NFL, but college ball is played Saturdays pretty much from dawn til midnight, and during that time, some team or another that has a rabid following is in a once-a-year showdown with a perpetual rival.

Part of the problem is that TV loves personalities. The great personalities of football also tend to stay in one place if they are successful. College coaches, pro coaches, great NFL QBs and RBs, will spend years in one place, and these matchups continue for years, building interest every time.

Baseball -- from the TV producer perspective -- is just as likely to throw up a Houston/White Sox series as it is to have a Yankees/Cubs or Red Sox/Giants -- which producers would have loved but never happened. You can see it with ESPN's coverage. MLB is about ARod, Jeter, Clemens, Rivera, Damon, Manny, Ortiz, Schilling, Wright, LoDuca, Nomar, Soriano, Pujols, Piniella, Torre, Bonds, plus the occasional freak occurrences like the 30-3 game, Rick Ankiel's comeback, or some amazing, death-defying catch. And none of that is guaranteed to be in the World Series, or if it is, they're not guaranteed to perform heroically.

That's what we love about baseball, but that's what producers hate. Football tends to deliver. Unless the star is suddenly injured during practice, they know what the story angles are going to be before the game even starts.

Apart from the weather factor, the daygame thing is nostalgia. Kids have a lot more to do now than they did when I was a kid and could obsess over a day WS game. I didn't have Madden '08 or World of Warcraft or a 4 hour IM session with DragonFlyBreath waiting for me at home. I also didn't have as much homework as kids do now. Nor did I have so many organized sports options. Having postseason games on at night probably increases the potential kid audience, even on weekends.

The market is putting postseason baseball about where it belongs.

To me, the glory of baseball isn't in the post season anyway. It's in individual, regular season games. The best thing for building the fan base is to just put more of them on TV, over-the-air broadcast TV. Channel 9 should show more Dodger games, and Fox ought to have Saturday double-headers, all toward increasing the odds that a fan will run across a great game, which can happen anytime, anywhere, at any point in the season.

Sorry for the longwindedness.

2007-08-24 11:31:10
89.   bhsportsguy
86 You might be the first person I have heard say that the Kevin Brown deal was a bad trade considering that ultimately that deal resulted in 2 okay years by Weaver, a reliever (albeit injured) and finally, 2 draft picks, again 1 pitcher (No. 1 prospect in his rookie league but hurt) and Son of Donnie Baseball.
2007-08-24 11:31:26
90.   Daniel Zappala
This is a great day. I just set a world record by canceling my Vonage service in only 7 minutes total. This included 1 minute navigating voice mail, 0 minutes on hold, and 6 minutes to speak to the customer service rep (2 minutes included politely rejecting offers to continue or try other services at lower rates).

If this seems trivial to you, please Google "cancel Vonage". Otherwise, you all owe me huge congratulations and a call to the Guinness Book of World Records.

2007-08-24 11:34:58
91.   Daniel Zappala
I didn't have Madden '08 or World of Warcraft or a 4 hour IM session with DragonFlyBreath waiting for me at home.

And now ... you do. Now we know what dzzrtRatt does in his spare time.

2007-08-24 11:35:34
92.   Disabled List
64 was funny. I've had more than a few innings like that myself.

And with all the talk about painful Dodger moments from the past, I'm surprised nobody brought up the 1991 choke job. 1985 was a 1-2 knockout punch, but at least it was over relatively quickly. September 1991 was death by a thousand slowly-inflicted paper cuts.

2007-08-24 11:40:41
93.   Eric Enders
86 "Evans orchestrated a horrible salary swap in the Brian Jordan/Odalis Perez for Sheffield deal. Trading the Dodgers best player for virtually nothing was a killer."

Absolute nonsense. Odalis Perez, whatever you may think of him, pitched 222 innings in 2002 and finished fourth in the NL in ERA. He was a genuine ace that year, and had a couple of other useful seasons as well, regardless of what happened later on. Also acquired in the trade was Andrew Brown, who was later traded for Milton Bradley (and therefore for Andre Ethier). And Brian Jordan gave us a season and a half of decent outfield play.

Gary Sheffield played two great years for the Braves before becoming a free agent. All in all, I'd say the Dodgers won that trade. You could argue that the Braves won the trade, too. But what you cannot argue is that Sheffield was traded for "virtually nothing." That's just ignorance.

And I can't believe I'm hearing anybody argue that the Kevin Brown to the Yankees trade was bad. I mean, I have a hard time believing you're even being serious here. Are you trying out for The Onion?

In Brown, Evans traded a 39-year-old pitcher who would give the Yankees 200 innings of pitching with a 5.00 ERA before breaking down for good. In return, Evans got two years of okay pitching from Jeff Weaver, plus Yhency Brazoban, plus Preston Mattingly, plus Bryan Morris. I mean, sheesh.

I thought Evans had his faults, but he was a lot better than his predecessors. [Jim Tracy mode] Was I glad when the Dodgers fired Evans to hire DePo? Yes. Would I rather have Dan Evans right now than Colletti? Yes. [/Jim Tracy mode]

2007-08-24 11:40:43
94.   Bob Timmermann
My friend is a dope sometime.

I just canceled Vonage without speaking to them. I just signed up with AT&T had them do it for me.

Vonage seemed like a good idea, but I spent most of my time going "huh? what?" to people.

And then having the modem die.

2007-08-24 11:42:06
95.   dzzrtRatt
91 Hey I wish! But these are observations of what my son, his cousins and his friends are doing. The last time my son got interested in baseball was 2002 when the Angels were champs. If they'd followed up in 2003, he might've gotten hooked, but that didn't happen. This is the problem with the Dodgers' lack of playoff success. My son was two years from being born when the Dodgers were last in the Series.

Where I live, if a kid skipped school to watch a baseball game, his or her parents would become suicidal, because how's a kid going to get into Harvard that way?

My son, who is not a candidate for Harvard, rarely watches any TV. If he's in front of the boob tube, he's usually watching a DVD. Mostly, he's at his computer or out doing some activity.

I'd love to see some Nielsen ratings on how many people under the age of 21 watch any major sports on TV more than occasionally. I bet it's shockingly low compared to my generation.

2007-08-24 11:43:43
96.   bhsportsguy
Sometimes players do know that something isn't quite right.

2007-08-24 11:44:28
97.   Disabled List
You can't put playoff baseball on in the day. Maybe a division series game or two, but that's it. People work during the week, and they watch football on the weekend. That's the reality of things.

However, playoff games that end after midnight are insanely annoying. Fox is determined to ruin the World Series with so many commercials that games run close to 4 hours in October. So the solution is just to bump the games up a bit. Weekday games should start at 7:30 Eastern, instead of 8:30, and weekend games should start at 7.

The West Coast might not like those 4:30 weekday start times, but by the time y'all get home from work, the game will only be in the third inning (thanks to Fox). And everybody has Tivo now anyway.

2007-08-24 11:44:38
98.   Kingmans Performance

a 2 out Dodger rally in the 9th, on the road, in the rain, in the NLCS.

A Manny Mota double off of Gene Garber, and his unorthodox 180 degree wind up.

Very memorable moment for me.

2007-08-24 11:44:48
99.   Daniel Zappala
94 I wasn't porting a number, so I couldn't use that trick. Good of AT&T to help you out, though.

95 Totally agreed. None of my kids watch any sports on TV unless they wander into the room while I have control of the remote.

2007-08-24 11:48:10
100.   LogikReader
In some ways, FOX and ESPN is the best thing that happened to sports and the worst thing that happened to sports at the same time.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-08-24 11:52:18
101.   Disabled List
Fox's telecasts are serviceable enough during the regular season. But come October, it's like they're actively trying to make the broadcasts as unwatchable as possible.
2007-08-24 11:53:54
102.   tethier
41 Somewhat related to this and other earlier comments regarding line-ups.

I know many people, including myself, have been carping about LuGo versus Ethier. I admit that I'm partial to Ethier. However, to me, it just seems like Lugo has really tailed off while Ethier has been on fire - well at least as on fire as a Dodger hitter this year can be. Imagine my surprise when I looked up the actual numbers and found they were more skewed than even my non-scientific impression.

Since the ASB in 107 ABs, LuGo has 5 extra base hits. BA - .224, OPS .557. Ethier has 16 extra base hits in 97 ABs. BA .337, OPS .988. You can't tell me that they are putting the best players on the field. I also believe Kemp should be in there every day - you have to have someone in the lineup who is a threat to hit it out of the park on a consistent basis.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with others who have said that in September, if the Dodgers are in it, we're likely to see more of Lugo, not less. Kemp and Ethier will continue to split time.

I will say this in LuGo's favor - he did do well in the first half - better than I thought he would.

2007-08-24 11:53:58
103.   Sam DC
I think we both should eat at Juan Pierre's Nothing But Salads. And if you don't, I'm breaking up with you right now.

I laughed at that.

2007-08-24 11:55:44
104.   Greg Brock
100 ESPN was the best thing that happened to sports until Kilborn and Olbermann. Not that they weren't hilarious...They were. They just spawned an entire generation of hackneyed impersonators.

Except for Kenny Mayne. Ch-i bless Kenny Mayne.

2007-08-24 11:57:25
105.   Bob Timmermann
But I called Vonage because they were going to keep billing me!

I got that stopped.

Time elapsed to take care of that: 9 minutes, 21 seconds.

2007-08-24 11:58:15
106.   Jon Weisman
104 - Really? Kenny Mayne? The King of Smarm over Substance?
2007-08-24 12:00:10
107.   Sam DC
So, all those reports about the contents of Vick's plea were just wrong?

Can I get an oops?

2007-08-24 12:00:46
108.   underdog
61 "So why did I feel such tension while I was reading it?"

Because Rosenthal writes for Fox? - and thus is probably trained in playing up things that either aren't there, or aren't there as much as they want you to think they are, to make a story out of nothing. It's very Fox-ian.

2007-08-24 12:01:01
109.   Bob Timmermann
I thought I would like Greg Brock if I ever met him.

Now, I would turn my back on him and let him drown if I saw him floundering in the water.

The latter is because I can't swim.

2007-08-24 12:01:03
110.   bhsportsguy
104 Boo-Yah
2007-08-24 12:02:07
111.   Disabled List
I liked Kenny Mayne, he's got the dry sense of humor that I liked in Olbermann.

The King of Smarm was Rich Eisen. I wanted to punch him every time he came on TV.

2007-08-24 12:02:08
112.   Greg Brock
106 Kenny Mayne makes me laugh. And I like deadpan. What can I say?
2007-08-24 12:03:21
113.   Bob Timmermann
So "Disabled List" is not Suzy Schuster?
2007-08-24 12:03:31
114.   Greg Brock
109 You are very lucky I wrote and deleted something about how much I miss Tom Mees before you wrote that.

It would have been...awkward.

2007-08-24 12:03:54
115.   Disabled List
110 It will take ESPN decades to recover from Stuart Scott.
2007-08-24 12:04:32
116.   bhsportsguy
112 This is why everyone (except for right now Bob, though I think we should all gather at the UCLA/Notre Dame game) wants to meet you.

Someone who can quote the Simpsons, love a GPS-wearing astronaut and be a Kenny Mayne fan.

2007-08-24 12:05:13
117.   schoffle

AB 492 OPS .916
AB 576 OPS 1.023

Jordan & Perez
AB 471 OPS .807
IP 222.1 ERA 3.00
AB 224 OPS .792
IP 185.1 ERA 4.52

Looks like a big win for the Dodger in 2002 and a big loss in 2003, for a malcontent who was demanding a trade.

IP 132.0 ERA 4.09
IP 73.1 ERA 6.51

For Weaver and 9 Million
IP 220.0 ERA 4.01
IP 224.0 ERA 4.22

Considering that Kevin was a known injury risk with 30 million left on his deal there were maybe two teams that Evans could have moved him to without paying part of his Salary.

2007-08-24 12:07:38
118.   Greg Brock
So Reggie Miller isn't coming back. Thank goodness.
2007-08-24 12:08:31
119.   Daniel Zappala
Per the earlier conversation, my earliest memories are the Yankees-Dodgers series in '77 and '78, especially Reggie Jackson and his hip. That was far worse than 1985. I still hate the Yankees to this day because of that.

I usually carried a transistor radio with me during the playoffs. And since I had an early bed time, I also took the radio to bed during the regular season, along with an earphone.

My earliest memory of the Lakers is indeed that 1980 game 6 with Magic Johnson. Three things were always taken for granted in my house growing up -- Dodgers, Lakers, and MNF with Howard Cosell. Even mass was subordinate to sports, as we would schedule the mass we would attend based on what games were going to be coming up on Sunday.

2007-08-24 12:09:22
120.   Sam DC
109 I'll wait for the song.

I still love when those big drums come in at the end.

2007-08-24 12:12:04
121.   Daniel Zappala
We know Bob is not heartless. We know he's turning his back so he can get a lifeguard for Greg, right?
2007-08-24 12:13:14
122.   Daniel Zappala
And wait a minute, aren't Bob and Greg detectives together? Does this mean Bob's OK with Greg's drowning because this leaves the femme fatale for him?
2007-08-24 12:13:41
123.   Greg Brock
121 I'm a good swimmer. Even without my water wings.

I remember the shock of boot camp when I realized people had joined the Navy and couldn't swim. Whaaaa?

2007-08-24 12:13:52
124.   bhsportsguy
121 I just hope that Brock isn't on the same list with Northern California and Russ Ortiz.
2007-08-24 12:15:18
125.   Terry A
122 - It's a ruse to draw out the bad guys, like when Hawk faked his death on "Spenser: For Hire."

(What? Nobody else watched that?)

2007-08-24 12:17:33
126.   Bob Timmermann
Please excuse my ignorance, but does the LDS refer to its Sunday service as "Mass" or were you part of the One, True, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church (TM) at the time?
2007-08-24 12:18:09
127.   tethier
119 I was in college during the '77 and '78 series and remember them pretty well. The '77 for Nettles winning the series with his glove. He took away a number of base hits when the Dodgers would threaten.

In '78 I was on Long Island surrounded by Yankee fans. Early in the series, Welch came in and blew away Reggie Jackson. A couple of days later it was a different story with Reggie and Welch.

In both years I thought the Dodgers were the better team, unlike '81 when they won it and weren't the better team in my opinion.

2007-08-24 12:19:01
128.   Daniel Zappala
I remember the shock of boot camp when I realized people had joined the Navy and couldn't swim. Whaaaa?

They what? You're kidding, right?

2007-08-24 12:20:10
129.   underdog
Rich Eisen fans or masochists can now catch his schtick on the NFL Network, btw.
2007-08-24 12:20:49
130.   underdog
128 Is that like people who joined the Marines thinking they would get to play with dolphins and study manatees?
2007-08-24 12:21:21
131.   Daniel Zappala
126 I did indeed grow up Catholic. We lived across the fence from the rectory and helped the priests pick figs. I was an altar boy for many many years, and since we lived so close I was the one who got the call for 6:30am services and weddings and funerals. I have probably been to more weddings and funerals than everyone else here combined.
2007-08-24 12:23:31
132.   Daniel Zappala
127 Based on that series alone, I thought Nettles deserved to be in the Hall of Fame.
2007-08-24 12:23:35
133.   Bob Timmermann
I'll take that bet.

I was an altar server for at least 20 funerals and at least 20 weddings.

2007-08-24 12:23:44
134.   Greg Brock
128 I am not kidding. People had to take remedial treading water lessons.

And you had to dive off a huge platform, tread water, and swim a certain distance (quarter mile, if I recall correctly). In denim.

If you can't swim, you can't swim. No big deal. But joining the Navy? You might want to work on that before basic.

2007-08-24 12:25:39
135.   Hallux Valgus
129 toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe. Eisen, Sanders, Mariucci, and Faulk are the reason the mute button was invented.
2007-08-24 12:26:17
136.   Daniel Zappala
133 That might have been a slow year for me. :-)
2007-08-24 12:26:49
137.   Bob Timmermann
People were dropping like flies in your neighborhood weren't they?
2007-08-24 12:27:02
138.   Disabled List
Why do you need to know how how to swim to be in the navy? I'm pretty sure they have boats for you ride in.
2007-08-24 12:27:34
139.   Bob Timmermann
Isn't the NFL Network only available to cable subscribers in Cuba and the Maritime Provinces of Canada?
2007-08-24 12:27:41
140.   paranoidandroid
Who goes to clear a spot for Wells on the 40-man roster?

I think Roberto might be done but Tomko can also be the fall guy.

2007-08-24 12:31:47
141.   Daniel Zappala
137 Well, you know, there was this plague ...
2007-08-24 12:32:33
142.   Bob Timmermann
Were the figs poisonous?
2007-08-24 12:35:08
143.   Daniel Zappala
142 No, but there might have been something in the incense.
2007-08-24 12:36:33
144.   Bob Timmermann
On one family vacation, we were staying near Moab, Utah and my parents wanted to find a place to take us to Mass for the Feast of the Assumption (August 15, for those scoring at home). We found a small Catholic Church, but their Mass was at a time we couldn't make. My parents asked where the next Catholic Church was.

We were told to drive to Cedar City.

My parents decided to forget it.

2007-08-24 12:38:20
145.   Bluebleeder87

Really nice observation Tthier.

2007-08-24 12:42:38
146.   tethier
145 Thanks - it's really been quite a differential between Ethier and LuGo since the ASB. As they say, the numbers don't lie, or something like that.
2007-08-24 12:44:42
147.   Daniel Zappala
144 But you have to drive that far to get to anywhere if you're in Moab. In the more populated areas, it's not that difficult to find a Catholic church. You also have plenty of elbow room in the pews, and very few people with whom you have to exchange the sign of peace.
2007-08-24 12:46:35
148.   LogikReader
Bob, NFL network is available on Cox here in SB. Of course, TWC is a giant so just them not having it affects most of Southern California.
2007-08-24 12:55:08
149.   Bob Timmermann
But if they made the NFL Network more widely available, I'd have to find a new joke.
2007-08-24 12:55:25
150.   Greg Brock
138 I agree. No swimming necessary.

USS Indianapolis

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-08-24 12:58:51
151.   Chris H
I want to salute Eric Enders on his excellent sponsorship of the Matt Kemp page at B-Ref. Kudos!

For those who haven't seen it:

2007-08-24 12:59:14
152.   Disabled List
150 I should learn how to flap my arms and fly too, in case I get shot down.

US Air Force Pilots

2007-08-24 12:59:53
153.   Sam DC
150 Not sure the ones who could swim were the winners there.
2007-08-24 13:00:52
154.   Greg Brock
152 Yes, but people can learn to swim. Only Jesus and Superman can fly.

It's good to know how to swim if you're going to be around lots of water. Is that really a point of contention?

2007-08-24 13:01:46
155.   Greg Brock
153 There were like 300 survivors. Swimming probably helped them out.
2007-08-24 13:06:39
156.   Bob Timmermann
Like Quint!
2007-08-24 13:07:48
157.   Disabled List
I know very little of the navy beyond those crummy Tom Clancy novels, but I would bet it's possible to have an entire career in the navy without dipping a toe in the ocean.

A brother of a friend of mine is in the air force, even though he hates flying. Obviously, he's not a pilot.

2007-08-24 13:08:01
158.   Robert Daeley
134 Not knowing how to swim before joining the Navy seems like not knowing how to walk before joining the Army.

155 It's like the story about how to get away from the bear -- you only have to swim faster than the slowest guy.

2007-08-24 13:09:36
159.   Greg Brock
It was actually 317. If Gordon Lightfoot had written a song about it, I'd have known the exact number.

Alas, no Lightfoot.

2007-08-24 13:10:19
160.   Eric Enders
It's like joining the Air Force without being able to flap your wings and fly.
2007-08-24 13:11:24
161.   Bob Timmermann
So the bell in the Maritime Hall is going be rung 317 times?
2007-08-24 13:15:33
162.   Sam DC
159 My comment was about the experience of the survivors, who spent a couple agonizing days floating in a huge chain while sharks pulled down their shipmates one by one until rescue. Incredibly traumatic and horrifying.

Though of course, my comment was not really to be taken literally since even with the horror most would prefer to have survived.

2007-08-24 13:15:38
163.   Bluebleeder87
I hope Brad Penny gets us going in the right direction in New York, Zona has to start losing already I'm sick of there winning ways!
2007-08-24 13:17:59
164.   Bob Timmermann
Arizona has lost 3 of its last 4 games.
2007-08-24 13:19:32
165.   LogikReader
And wouldn't you know? The Dodgers won three of its last four!
2007-08-24 13:20:17
166.   Greg Brock
If a dictator dies, and nobody reports it, is he really dead?

At least we get updates on Franco. Still dead.

2007-08-24 13:21:10
167.   JoeyP
In Brown, Evans traded a 39-year-old pitcher who would give the Yankees 200 innings of pitching with a 5.00 ERA before breaking down for good.

Its not about what would end up happening. Thats hindsight.

At the time of the trade, Brown was coming off a season of 2.39 ERA and over 220 innings. To get nothing but Jeff Weaver, and some salary relief, was terrible.

2007-08-24 13:24:30
168.   Marty
So, eleven hundred men went in the water; 316 men come out and the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945. Anyway, we delivered the bomb.
2007-08-24 13:24:55
169.   paranoidandroid
We also got Yhency. When healthy, he can be a good piece of the bullpen.

He was our closer for a year!

2007-08-24 13:25:11
170.   Eric Enders
167 Again. Repeating. We did not get "nothing but Jeff Weaver." We got Jeff Weaver plus three other players. One of whom became our closer.
2007-08-24 13:27:07
171.   Humma Kavula
168 On June the 29th, 1945, Robert Shaw was 17 years old. He would not turn 18 until August 9th.
2007-08-24 13:27:35
172.   regfairfield
167 Brown threw 179 innings in 2001 and 2002 combined. He was obviously I gigantic injury risk. Combine this with being 39 and owed an obscene amount of money, I can't see anyone offering immense talent for him.
2007-08-24 13:28:05
173.   Eric Enders
Somebody should have Colletti surf to There's a big color picture of Delwyn Young on their front page right now and it might serve to remind Ned that he exists.
2007-08-24 13:30:17
174.   Wilbert Robinson
Colletti does not use the internet. He's old school.
2007-08-24 13:32:37
175.   Humma Kavula
174 It's only old school if you have something to teach.

Otherwise, it's just old.

2007-08-24 13:37:48
176.   Jon Weisman
From ITD:

Furcal, SS
Pierre, CF
Kemp, RF
Kent, 2B
Ethier, LF
Martin, C
Loney, 1B
Hillenbrand, 3B
Penny, P

2007-08-24 13:40:35
177.   Kevin Lewis
Did the Discovery channel just do a special on the USS Indianapolis for Shark Week? I watched that and it looked like a pretty horrible put it mildly.
2007-08-24 13:45:13
178.   Sam DC
I read a book -- In Harm's Way -- but haven't seen the documentary.

Tough book to read, esp. as it recounts all the frustrating mistakes and glitches that might have avoided or shortened the ordeal.

2007-08-24 13:46:33
179.   Kevin Lewis

I love this lineup...LaRoche must be frustrated about this.

2007-08-24 13:46:56
180.   jasonungar07
Joey maybe they knew something you didn't?

I don't mean that in a rude way.

2007-08-24 13:47:03
181.   paranoidandroid

Good. The only way I would personally like it better would be to have Martin hit second, Loney sixth, Shea seventh, and Slappy eighth. Not likely to happen anytime soon.

But what happens when Nomar returns? Then hitting Nomar sixth or seventh with Russ in the two slot makes sense.

2007-08-24 13:47:05
182.   Sam DC
In Harm's Way:
2007-08-24 13:47:10
183.   Wilbert Robinson
176 Thank goodness! Kemp and Ethier in line-up today. I get to see my first Dodger game in person in 2 years! Goooo Hillenbrand!
2007-08-24 13:53:11
184.   DodgerJoe
176 - If only in '08, this was our lineup and we switched ARod for Hillenbrand.....wishfull thinking
2007-08-24 13:54:49
185.   Sam DC
For Greg Brock: Has nothing to do with sharks.
2007-08-24 13:55:06
186.   PHilldodger
151 Mr. Enders, I second the salute. My 6-year old son's favorite baseball possession (aside from his glove) is his Matt Kemp rookie card that was in a pack of cards we bought in the grocery store checkout line. He likes that Kemp "hits the ball hard" (his words). The card goes with him to school everday in his lunchbox.
The boy's bedtime is before the Dodgers' West Coast games start, but he always wants to see Kemp bat if LA is in the Central or Eastern time zone.
2007-08-24 13:56:18
187.   Daniel Zappala
185 No need to tell Brock -- he was probably there in person.
2007-08-24 13:56:30
188.   LogikReader

I don't think A-Rod would be batting 8th

2007-08-24 13:59:08
189.   LogikReader

A-Rod opting out is wishful thinking, but beyond that, why wouldn't NedCo go after him? He's a veteran, he has a high batting average (his stats), but he's also has that monster slugging pct. and an OPS off the charts (our stats). Everyone wins. He's worth 30 mil a year, just for all the publicity and everything he'll attract.

2007-08-24 13:59:25
190.   Bluebleeder87
You can't really be to upset with this lineup, I dig it.
2007-08-24 13:59:52
191.   ryu
If any of you are bored,

2007-08-24 14:05:14
192.   Greg Brock
I'll bet an ankle bracelet will look quite fetching on the future Mrs. Nowak-Brock.
2007-08-24 14:05:41
193.   Eric Enders
189 I think A-Rod signing with the Dodgers may be wishful thinking. But A-Rod opting out is virtually guaranteed.
2007-08-24 14:06:14
194.   underdog
I'd love it if we could trade Hillenbrand for A-Rod, too, but it's probably unlikely.

(I know that's not what you meant, it just had me excited for a second.)

2007-08-24 14:08:55
195.   Eric Enders
Ankle bracelets will probably become fetching fashion accessories. Hey, it happened with dog collars.
2007-08-24 14:13:58
196.   Disabled List
A-Rod opting out is a lock. I'm thinking he's gonna sign an 8-year, $250 million contract with either the Yankees or the Angels.

The Dodgers will be marginal players, at best, in the A-Rod sweepstakes. This is infuriating to me, and tangentially related to post 17 way upthread.

2007-08-24 14:14:51
197.   Terry A
196 - You don't think the Red Sox would be involved?
2007-08-24 14:16:36
198.   LogikReader
Please expound on this, Eric, DL. We see Colletti throwing money around at everyone else, what would stop him from Arod? Because he's actually good?
2007-08-24 14:17:10
199.   Disabled List
Maybe just to drive the price up for the Yankees. I don't think the Sox really want him.
2007-08-24 14:19:53
200.   Bluebleeder87
I'm pretty sure we'll go after a big name this winter but I'm not sure we will go after a superstar name like A-Rod though.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-08-24 14:20:57
201.   Eric Enders
198 I find it doubtful for a number of reasons, including:
1) $220 million is very different from $45 million, which Colletti spent on Pierre and Schmidt.
2) The Dodgers have a very good third baseman already waiting in the wings. A-Rod could move to shortstop, but we already have an expensive shortstop.
3) The Dodgers just don't sign the #1 free agent on the market. Ever. Well, maybe once, Strawberry.
4) Colletti hates Boras.
5) A-Rod is an East Coast guy.

I'd love for it to happen, but I don't think it will.

2007-08-24 14:21:23
202.   Disabled List
198 It's an organizational thing. I don't think Boras will bring him here, unless McCourt utterly breaks the bank for him, which probably isn't a good idea anyway. The Angels don't have the organziational dysfunction that the Dodgers have, and the Yankees are in a better position to absorb a $30 million a year contract.

Also, Colletti and Boras don't have the best relationship. This is one of the reasons I was so turned off at Ned for the juvenile hissy-fit he threw over JD Drew.

2007-08-24 14:22:22
203.   Bluebleeder87
It's to bad Ned wasn't patient enough to wait for '08 to get a better CF'er
2007-08-24 14:23:01
204.   natepurcell
any lineup with SHEA!!!! in it rules.
2007-08-24 14:23:34
205.   natepurcell
now, SHEA!!! in a lineup AT SHEA!!?!??!

OMGzzz sensor overload.

2007-08-24 14:24:00
206.   paranoidandroid
192 If you marry her, will you ask her to share some astronaut diapers for seniors with Roberto Hernandez and Bubba Wells?

Actually, I think I need to wear them when they are pitching.

2007-08-24 14:24:44
207.   Eric Enders
Shea at Shea, career: 3 for 11, no walks or extra-base hits.
2007-08-24 14:25:42
208.   natepurcell

so that just means he's due.

2007-08-24 14:26:14
209.   LogikReader
ah, well explained, I must say.

I'll get my "Welcome to the Dodgers, Livan Hernandez" banners ready.

note to self: bookmark this page for recall in March 2008

2007-08-24 14:27:22
210.   Daniel Zappala
Who has hacked nate's account?
2007-08-24 14:27:44
211.   underdog
207 How many Shea Specials? (DPs) I won't carp, I like the rest of the lineup at least.
2007-08-24 14:27:53
212.   LogikReader
Which has better value? One big box of corn flakes, or a bunch of little boxes of corn flakes? If I ever get to meet NedCo in person I'll ask that question first. =)
2007-08-24 14:28:23
213.   underdog
Nate, it's a little early for a rule 11 violation, buddy. ;-)
2007-08-24 14:29:15
214.   LogikReader
btw, I really like tonight's lineup as well; it's much like the one from Wednesday's game.
2007-08-24 14:29:49
215.   GoBears
Sorry if someone already linked this, but just in case:

It's a Crasnick article on the Dodgers for that is a pretty fair assessment of the situation. Nothing new to DTers, but it's nice to see something relatively intelligent on the Worldwide Leader.

2007-08-24 14:31:08
216.   natepurcell
chad as a starter this year:

73.2IP 65H 12hr 35bb 63k 3.67 era

chad in august:
29.2IP 29h 3hr 13bb 29k 3.03 era

Chad's career ERA+ is 125 in almost 200IP by his age 22 season!

2007-08-24 14:31:39
217.   silverwidow

What did I tell you guys yesterday?

2007-08-24 14:32:55
218.   Disabled List
209 I hope I'm wrong. I'd love to see the Dodgers make that kind of splash and sign A-Rod. With the cheap young talent we have, that's the kind of move that wins titles (as long as some of the expensive dead weight is removed also).

But I'm pessimistic.

2007-08-24 14:32:59
219.   natepurcell

I think when I woke up, rule 11 was already violated from the previous night.

2007-08-24 14:33:04
220.   Eric Enders
212 One might say a more appropriate question is: What has more value, a big box of Corn Flakes, or a bunch of little boxes of dog food?
2007-08-24 14:33:10
221.   Greg Brock
Bye Brett. We'll miss you!*

*We won't miss you.

2007-08-24 14:34:00
222.   natepurcell

now THAT!!!! is a reason to drink to. everyone gets a round on me.

2007-08-24 14:34:31
223.   Eric Enders
217 Booya!

I am so happy. Hell, it's three months too late, but I'm not even mad about that right now. Ding dong, the witch is dead!

All hail the new witch's arrival.

2007-08-24 14:34:37
224.   Disabled List
It's DFA Day!!!
2007-08-24 14:34:43
225.   Jon Weisman
216 - ERA+ for Don Sutton:

Age 21: 110
Age 22: 79
Age 23: 107
Age 24: 97
Age 25: 94
Age 26: 127

Yeah, I'd say Chad's doing okay.

2007-08-24 14:36:02
226.   Jon Weisman
I would DFA Hernandez before Tomko, but I guess you have to start somewhere.
2007-08-24 14:36:17
227.   natepurcell

Chad gives me hope that the rest of out pitching prospects see the light and follows suite.

2007-08-24 14:36:51
228.   paranoidandroid

Who will paint the pretty watercolors now?

I haven't been this sad since the day Saddam was executed.

2007-08-24 14:37:36
229.   Vishal
ding dong, tomko's been DFA'd :) too bad he's being replaced by david wells.
2007-08-24 14:37:37
230.   Eric Enders
227 They see the light, but they can't reach up and grab it. Their shoulders hurt too much.
2007-08-24 14:38:16
231.   natepurcell


2007-08-24 14:38:20
232.   regfairfield
So we replace Tomko with a guy who might be as good as him. Yay?

It just seems like poor roster management to DFA people a week before rosters expand.

2007-08-24 14:39:29
233.   Vishal
[232 ] seriously, i don't see why they couldn't invent an injury for someone.
2007-08-24 14:40:30
234.   Bluebleeder87
is the rumor true about Tomko being DFA?
2007-08-24 14:40:57
235.   silverwidow
232-We need his roster spot for a useful minor leaguer.
2007-08-24 14:40:57
236.   paranoidandroid
Where there any other options? I guess you could wait for Stults to pitch tomorrow, send him down Sat night, then activate Wells for Sunday.

But you still have a 40 man roster issue. Tomko simply doesn't belong on that roster. Nor does Roberto, but he might give us an inning before we can upgrade. Plus, who do you send out there when you are up by 12 runs? Duh? The guy with 1,000 appearances who needs to embarass himself one more time before he hangs it up for good.

2007-08-24 14:41:07
237.   Vishal
[234 ] it's on inside the dodgers, which is a pretty official source.
2007-08-24 14:41:23
238.   silverwidow
234-It's not a rumor; it's straight from the Dodgers PR blog.
2007-08-24 14:42:25
239.   regfairfield
236 Hey Tomko you're shoulder hurts, right?
2007-08-24 14:44:08
240.   Vishal
[239 ] it's more like he's eye hurts. at least that's what i feel when i'm watching him. he's also a bit of upset stomach.
2007-08-24 14:45:24
241.   LogikReader
Tomko dfa'd, found Oingo Boingo on Gong Show clip... does this day get any better?
2007-08-24 14:45:39
242.   underdog
I'm glad to say so long to Tomko, although I feel a little sorry for him (emphasis on "a little"), knowing how sensitive he is. Maybe he can find solace in his painting.

Now if they could only replace Hernandez with Hull (which they can't yet) or Meloan (they'd have to make a 40 man roster adjustment)... but we'll see them in a week anyway.

2007-08-24 14:48:12
243.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-08-24 14:48:32
244.   Bluebleeder87
I wonder how it all goes down:

1) do they slip him a note?
2) does Grady pull out a bottle of Vodka & "have a talk with Tomko
3) does Grady simply tell Tomko he's been DFA? (ouch)
4) none of the above

2007-08-24 21:52:08
245.   Da Dodge
Growing up in Vero Beach and working at Dodgertown for three years, I always remember Mota riding around Dodgertown on his bicycle. That was as much a fixture of spring training. He was very quiet and mild-mannered and would ring his bell at you if you were in his way on the way out to Holman Stadium.

And the 1977 win was the best playing memory I have of him.

2007-08-24 23:47:23
246.   jet
I know I'm way too late here with a Manny Mota memory, but I remember attending a game at Dodger Stadium with my Dad, around 1970, or maybe a year or two later, where Manny Mota and Willie Davis BOTH hit inside the park homeruns. Each was a groundball pulled down the line. It was a see-saw game with lots of lead changes, with the Pirates's Al Oliver making a great catch in center to save the game for the Pirates. The score was 8 to 7. (Al Oliver I believed finished his career with the Dodgers -- but that was much later.)

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