Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Google Search
Dodger Thoughts

02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Wells vs. Stults
2007-08-27 12:58
by Jon Weisman

One starter faced 23 Mets batters; the other faced 24. One starter's performance was deemed inspirational; the other's desultory.

Now, I was out of the house all weekend and I didn't see the games. So I'll ask those who did watch: If you scored David Wells vs. Eric Stults like a prize fight, was there really that much to separate the two?

David WellsEric StultsWellsStults
J Reyes grounded out to third.J Reyes flied out to left.1010
L Milledge singled to left.L Milledge walked.109*
D Wright doubled to left L Milledge out at home.D Wright walked, L Milledge to second.910
C Beltran walked.C Beltran flied out to left.910
M Alou grounded into fielder's choice to shortstop C Beltran out at second.J Conine walked, L Milledge to third, D Wright to second.109
J Conine grounded out to shortstop.C Delgado grounded out to third.1010
R Gotay grounded out to shortstop.S Alomar Jr grounded out to shortstop.1010
M DiFelice flied out to left.R Gotay struck out swinging.1010
J Maine singled to left.O Hernandez struck out swinging.910
J Reyes singled to left, J Maine to second.J Reyes singled to right (Stole second)1010
L Milledge struck out swinging.L Milledge grounded out to third, J Reyes to third.1010
D Wright doubled to left, J Maine and J Reyes scored. (Wright caught stealing.)D Wright singled to left, J Reyes scored.910
C Beltran flied out to left.C Beltran reached on infield single to SS, D Wright to second.109
M Alou singled to left.J Conine struck out swinging.910
J Conine flied out to right.C Delgado popped out to second.1010
R Gotay lined out to left.S Alomar Jr flied out to left.1010
M DiFelice flied out to left.R Gotay grounded out to shortstop.1010
J Maine grounded out to first.O Hernandez struck out looking.1010
J Reyes grounded out to shortstop.J Reyes bunt grounded out to pitcher.1010
L Milledge reached on infield single to shortstop.L Milledge grounded out to shortstop.1010
D Wright walked, L Milledge to second.D Wright walked.1010
C Beltran walked, L Milledge to third, D Wright to second.C Beltran singled to deep right left, D Wright to third. (Beltran stole second.)1010
M Alou struck out swinging.J Conine intentionally walked.109
(Wells out of the inning)C Delgado singled to left, D Wright and C Beltran scored.109
*A bases-empty walk is worse than a single.235235

Comments (230)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-08-27 13:08:18
1.   D4P
Wells "knew how to win"; Stults didn't.
2007-08-27 13:09:07
2.   Howard Fox
you are correct, they were virtually the same performance...but Wells has the PVL, and Stults is on the short leash back to AAA...go figure...
2007-08-27 13:09:58
3.   Eric Enders
I pay zero attention to boxing. Are prize fights really scored like that? The guy who does something lousy gets 9 points and the other guy gets 10?
2007-08-27 13:10:11
4.   Greg Brock
CompuBox says that Wells landed more power shots.
2007-08-27 13:11:43
5.   Howard Fox
3 yes
2007-08-27 13:11:47
6.   JoeyP
Yeah, all fights are scored 10-9, unless there are points deducted in the round.

Wells is an old guy.
The media loves old people that do well.

2007-08-27 13:12:16
7.   snydes
are these guys in the same weight class? i would guess stults as a cruiserweight and wells as a (super) heavyweight.
2007-08-27 13:12:22
8.   Wilbert Robinson
white sox just hit the 4th homer of the inning. The white sox broadcast team has exploded.
2007-08-27 13:13:13
9.   Howard Fox
6 they like old...and jolly...people
2007-08-27 13:13:40
10.   Xeifrank
3. Yes, that's the way they are scored. Not the best system, I guess it could read better if it was 1-0 instead of 10-9, or 2-0 instead of 10-8 etc... Baseball also has a funny scoring system. They go by runs, and you can get a run just by hitting a couple of bloopers over the shorstops head, while the other team can score zero runs while hitting line drives right at fielders just by sheer luck.
vr, Xei
2007-08-27 13:14:41
11.   fanerman
9 old, jolly, fat.... Santa Claus?
2007-08-27 13:14:51
12.   Howard Fox
10 fortunately, lately the Dodgers have it all covered, hitting bloopers at people
2007-08-27 13:14:55
13.   Wilbert Robinson
10 Thiis what makes Juan Pierre such a valuable member of the team.
2007-08-27 13:15:27
14.   paranoidandroid
REPOST, still available.

I'm not going to use my 2 season tickets tonight or Wednesday. They can be had for FREE. Pick them up in Palmdale or they can be emailed for $2 each, a fee McCourt sticks you with that doesn't make any sense to me. Clippers tickets can be emailed for free.

Anyway, if you want them emailed I'd ask for $4.50 through paypal to cover all the fees or you can send me a check for $4.00.

Tickets are in top deck, sect 3, behind home plate. It is easy to hop on the elevator and go down to the reserve section on a weeknight.

Post if you want the tickets. I'm going to the game tomorrow. BTW, I'm 5-0 this season.

2007-08-27 13:17:13
15.   jasonungar07
I agree with where you are going in all this Jon. That's why I said I have always viewed Coletti as a used car salesman. There is more to be made off promoting one car vs the other. Same car though. Got us to the same place. But my gosh he had to cut his good buddy Tomko so we could view this car, and well Stults always has been on the lot.
2007-08-27 13:17:32
16.   Howard Fox
14 I'm going to the game tomorrow. BTW, I'm 5-0 this season

so what you are saying is we lose 2 of 3 to the Nats

2007-08-27 13:17:48
17.   Wilbert Robinson
13 Doh I forgot about the positive vibes for Juan Pierre kick that I was on...must think of something positive to say about Pierre fast that is not sarcastic in any way..................................Mission Failed.
2007-08-27 13:19:10
18.   gibsonhobbs88
Bottom line is Dodgers also supported Wells with a little more offense, Stultz was pitching while getting shut out till late in the game after he was gone. When your team is offensively flat and stinking it up, it can make a fair pitching performance by the losing pitcher look like a poor lackluster performance.

In relating back to Jon's previous post on Maddux, my wife mentioned that to me the other day when she heard that Maddux won another one for the Pads. She said "The Dodgers should have kept him, right? Based on your numbers, we would have got more bang for our buck with him even taking the poorer fielding into consideration. The fact is he has been healthy for most of the year and we had to resort to Tomko (+6 ERA), Hendrickson and the injured Kuo in his stead not to mention the injured Wolf. He probably could have meant 3-4 more wins at least which would put his just a couple games behind AZ instead of 6.
This week is our chance like no 124 of the previous post points out. While the Dbacks and the Pads roll in the mud for 4,hopefully either they split or the Pads take 3 of 4 to tighten things up, we can gain some ground provided we can beat the Nationals all three games.

2007-08-27 13:19:17
19.   D4P
must think of something positive to say about Pierre fast that is not sarcastic in any way..................................Mission Failed.

Mission: Impossible.

2007-08-27 13:20:24
20.   underdog
I was naiively expecting both Stults and Wells to be in the rotation. I thought we sent Hendrickson to the 'pen and DFA'd Tomko, and Wolf is still on the DL, thus we had two openings? I guess when they to go the 4man rotation then Wells is the last man, when they go back to a five man rotation though won't Stults still get the call? Or am I missing something?
2007-08-27 13:21:11
21.   LogikReader
Dang! I got LAT'd...

Bob's on vacation, otherwise I'd ask when the last time was that the Dodgers had a 6 game winning streak.

In fact, I don't think ANYBODY in the West has a 6 game winning streak this year. Really strange to think about. The Dodgers had a 9 game streak as recent as 2002 and maybe 2004.

2007-08-27 13:21:23
22.   Howard Fox
by the way, just got my playoff tickets billing in the mail...its not even September yet...guess I have to contribute to the Tomko severance package
2007-08-27 13:21:52
23.   Wilbert Robinson
20 Oh, you must have missed it...the Dodgers signed David Cone this morning.
2007-08-27 13:21:58
24.   LogikReader
I sure hope JP doesn't read this thread...
2007-08-27 13:22:23
25.   Howard Fox
21 I believe the D'backs had a lengthy win streak
2007-08-27 13:23:13
26.   fanerman
24 Well, pretty much every thread is like this. So you have to hope JP doesn't read DT period.
2007-08-27 13:23:16
27.   fracule
17 I'll help... He's fast, and he's a nice guy.
2007-08-27 13:24:30
28.   Joshua Worley
Well, the Dodgers really ought to skip one of them next time through to get Lowe and Billingsley starts in San Diego. I'm sure Wells will get the nod over Stultz, especially in Petco.

What happened with the Wells suspension, though?

2007-08-27 13:24:34
29.   Disabled List
He looks really adorable in his oversized batting helmet.
2007-08-27 13:24:42
30.   fracule
17 And..I think he'd make a great center fielder for the Portland Beavers.
2007-08-27 13:24:46
31.   LogikReader

Looks like they did indeed, a 7 gamer back in July.

2007-08-27 13:25:25
32.   fanerman
26 Actually, I do hope JP reads DT. After all, we're just trying to apply constructive criticism, right? Even though we're probably communicating it in the worst possible way.
2007-08-27 13:25:25
33.   fracule
29 There you go! We can do it if we try.
2007-08-27 13:25:58
34.   Howard Fox
D'backs won 8 straight at the end of July
2007-08-27 13:26:07
35.   D4P
I think he'd make a great center fielder for the Portland Beavers

I think Juan would make a better Wet Sock.

2007-08-27 13:27:03
36.   paranoidandroid
All three lefties this weekend were high-wire acts. The difference in their fates came down to baserunning, called third strikes in crucial at-bats, coaching, and some defensive plays.

Oliver Perez was on the ropes in the first inning. Ethier looked at strike three without putting the ball into play. Did it again to end the game against Wagner.

We send Gonzo on a hit and run. That and the delayed steal last week made Wells look like Carl Lewis. Sandy Jr. nailed Pierre too.

Yesterday, Sandy Alomar Sr. got Lastings hung up and we wiggled out of an inning.

Wright on Saturday made Oliver Perez a winner along with our baserunning decisions. Conine made the sixth inning rally possible with a two out error.

None of three looked like winners, but Perez put up zeroes, Stults wiggled around until the 5th, and Wells wiggled off the hook in the first and then again in the fifth with a great pitch to Alou. Alou was his last batter regardless.

2007-08-27 13:27:59
37.   Jon Weisman
3 - If it had been out vs. HR, I would have scored that round 10-8 or 10-7.
2007-08-27 13:30:03
38.   fracule
35 That would make the pain of us not having a major league team a little less if they would change their name to that.
2007-08-27 13:30:09
39.   Jon Weisman
From the press notes:

TAKING THE FALL – The Dodgers announced their participants for the Arizona Fall League and they will be: pitchers Zach Hammes, Justin Orenduff, Greg Miller, Wesley Wright and Cory Wade, infielder Blake DeWitt, outfielder Xavier Paul and coach Garey Ingram, who will all be on the Peoria Saguaros starting on October 9. Headed to the Hawaiian Fall League are pitchers Steven Johnson, Garrett White and Kyle Wilson, catcher Kenley Jansen, infielders Josh Bell and Russell Mitchell, outfielders Jamie Hoffmann and Ryan Rogowski and pitching coach Ken Howell.

2007-08-27 13:30:41
40.   dzzrtRatt
It is rare when I differ with Jon's spin, but I do here. I don't think Stults' performance was "deemed" anything particularly negative. It was the Dodgers feeble, unclutchified offense that lost Saturday's game, not Stults.

The decisive moment for Stults was a manager's stupid call to intentionally walk Jeff Conine to get to Carlos Delgado, which Stults paid for. Delgado might be in a hideous slump, but that's tugging on Superman's cape.

I'm thinking Grady thinks Stults shouldn't be the first pitcher out the door in what could be a season-deciding series against San Diego. It might be PVL syndrome, but it also might reflect a concern for Stults' confidence. Or both.

2007-08-27 13:32:58
41.   Howard Fox
40 I am not sure Grady is smart enough to consider harm to Stults' confidence. You are right, who in their right mind walks Conine to get to Delgado with the bases loaded? What did that do FOR Stults' confidence?
2007-08-27 13:34:00
42.   Wilbert Robinson
28 Wells' appeal isn't scheduled to be heard until early September. He can play until then.
2007-08-27 13:34:25
43.   screwballin
Red Alert!

From Will Carroll's column today on BP:

As the Dodgers fade from the chase, I'm not sure if they can't look back to the trade deadline as where it all went horribly wrong. The front office issues have shaken Tommy Lasorda loose from his career of talking Cubs fans out of trees and back into a more active role, according to several sources. "He's Tom Hagen now," I was told.

On the field, the problems revolve around finding offense. They won't get it with Nomar Garciaparra. While he could come off the DL mid-week by rule, the calf strain will take a lot longer to heal. He's not running yet and there's some suggestion that if the team falls much further out of the race, Garciaparra will be shut down in order to free up some at-bats for younger players in September.

2007-08-27 13:36:18
44.   Eric Enders
39 Josh got the league's name wrong; it's the Hawaii Winter League. This despite the facts that
a)there's no winter in Hawaii, and
b) it takes place at the same time as the Arizona Fall League
2007-08-27 13:36:52
45.   Dodgers49
51s awaiting September call-ups

>> Colletti singled out several Las Vegas position players -- Young, Abreu, Wilson Valdez, Chin-Lung Hu and John Lindsey -- along with several pitchers: Jon Meloan, Houlton, Hull and Stults, who is with the Dodgers. <<

2007-08-27 13:37:19
46.   screwballin
Glad to see Tommy's getting involved just in time to make some really good trades for us. This should be great. (sarcasm)
2007-08-27 13:37:49
47.   caseybarker
Aaron Cunningham is the CF for AA Mobile BayBears. He just moved from single A.
2007-08-27 13:37:56
48.   Greg Brock
43 "He's Tom Hagen now"


2007-08-27 13:38:26
49.   Eric Enders
I thought the intentional walk was the right move. The lefty-lefty matchup puts Delgado at a significant disadvantage, plus Delgado sucks now anyway. The runner on first didn't make that much difference because in the event of any extra-base hit the game was probably over anyway.
2007-08-27 13:39:13
50.   Wilbert Robinson
45 ummm Colletti singled out Stults for a call up?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-08-27 13:40:14
51.   Eric Enders
45 I guess it's telling that Colletti thinks Stults is actually still in AAA.

Conspicuous in his absence: LaRoche.

2007-08-27 13:40:33
52.   D4P
BTW: How does one "single out" several players...?
2007-08-27 13:40:34
53.   paranoidandroid
40 41
I agree with Grady's move. Delgado was zero for 19 and with the bases loaded, a grounder gives you an out at every base. Also, the lefty on lefty stuff that is baseball gospel.

The key to the inning was Stults walking a batter. That made the inning.

Wells will get the start in SD because of the revenge factor and his ability to be in big games. We were lucky to get five from him on Sunday.

He is probably no different than Stults in what you might get, but you can't overlook the Hawthorne effect in letting the team and the fans know you would stand pat when things are going badly.

2007-08-27 13:41:44
54.   screwballin
This will be a difficult season already if we miss the playoffs, or if we trade away major prospects for quick fixes. If we do both, which would seem to be more likely with our new consigliere, then this season will be a total downer.
2007-08-27 13:41:57
55.   Joshua Worley
My impression of the three Dodger starts agains the Mets was that they were all very close to the same. All three walked more than they struck out. All three had about a 2:1 ground ball to fly ball ratio. They all went about 5 innings, gave up 2-3 runs, which is a decent enough result against the tough Mets offense.

I think the biggest difference was the final score of each game. And to many people Wells makes a better story than Stults.

2007-08-27 13:42:58
56.   Jon Weisman
40 - I think that given they were talking about skipping Stults' next start, and given how the press reported the two events, that they were deemed differently. Maybe I'm wrong.
2007-08-27 13:44:03
57.   Eric Enders
43 "there's some suggestion that if the team falls much further out of the race, Garciaparra will be shut down in order to free up some at-bats for younger players in September."

[Does Kirk Gibson fist pump]

2007-08-27 13:45:05
58.   King of the Hobos
43 It should be noted that Hillenbrand is younger than Nomar.
2007-08-27 13:45:07
59.   Howard Fox
53 its called tempting the fates, by wanting to face Delgado
2007-08-27 13:48:12
60.   Wilbert Robinson
57 59 "It should be noted that Hillenbrand is younger than Nomar"

[Does Billy Ashley tripping over himself trying to catch a pop fly]

2007-08-27 13:48:36
61.   Penarol1916
39. Now I'm very confused. Like the esteemed Mr. Enders in the last thread, I thought that Mattingley would be in the AFL, but if not, we'd see him in Hawaii. He is just so raw and behind kids that played baseball year round, I don't know why you don't put him in as many games as possible put him in all the instructional leagues you can.

This news also bodes ill for Bryan Morris, hopefully they are just waiting until they get a little closer to decide whether or not to put him on a roster.

2007-08-27 13:48:41
62.   Howard Fox
and saying Delgado is having a down year and pitching to him is the percentage play is like saying Wells is old and in a down year and should not be in a pressure situation
2007-08-27 13:51:06
63.   Eric Enders
61 At the very least Morris should pitch in the instructional league. I thought Mattingly would be a better fit for Arizona than Hawaii, because it might help his confidence by giving his hitting performance a nice artificial boost. Maybe they just think he's not advanced enough to tread water in these leagues though, since they mostly consist of Double A players.
2007-08-27 13:52:14
64.   was it tims mitt i saw
14 - i'll take tonights tickets if you still have them
2007-08-27 13:55:15
65.   King of the Hobos
61 The initial names are hardly set in stone, so it wouldn't be a surprise to see one of those guys go to the AFL or HWL. I will admit though, that these names don't feature SPs with a lot of innings that have no business pitching in those leagues like often occurs (I believe Jackson, Miller, Billingsley, and Elbert were all scheduled for the AFL but were dropped)
2007-08-27 13:57:00
66.   Penarol1916
63. I thought that Hawaii was for single-A guys, but it looks like it is mostly advanced single-A, so I guess I can see that line of reasoning, wouldn't want to destroy his confidense, but I still think that his major need is just playing more ball.
2007-08-27 14:02:07
67.   Eric Enders
66 My impression is that about two-thirds of the players are guys who were either in AA during the past season, or are headed there for the next one. I could be wrong.
2007-08-27 14:12:56
68.   Jon Weisman
Tuesday press conference: "Frank McCourt will unveil the next phase of renovations at Dodger Stadium."
2007-08-27 14:13:32
69.   Howard Fox
68 and the next round of ticket price increases?
2007-08-27 14:15:02
70.   Jon Weisman
68 - Scheduled to appear:

Frank McCourt, Owner and Chairman, Los Angeles Dodgers

Maria Elena Durazo, Executive Secretary and Treasurer, Los Angeles County Federation of Labor, AFL-CIO

Andy Lansing, CEO, Levy Restaurants

2007-08-27 14:18:33
71.   Greg Brock
68 So this is the big announcement dealy thing he alluded to on July 21. Because if it's simply concession stands deeper into the mountains, that would be...a let down.
2007-08-27 14:19:57
72.   Bumsrap
The rotation could use an extra day rest and therefore I would prefer for the Dodgers to not skip Stults.

From here on out I would like to see Hull back with team now and Hernandez not. I would like to see Ethier and Kemp play most everyday and let Pierre and Gonzo rotate in and out of the lineup. I would rest Martin two consecutive days a week and give him three days off in a row whenever there was a travel day.

I can wait for the September callups for Young and LaRoche to join the team, and the same goes for Meloan.

2007-08-27 14:21:09
73.   Jon Weisman
71 - I assume it relates to that.
2007-08-27 14:21:34
74.   D4P
Isn't there supposedly going to be a new restaurant out in the RF pavilion or something...?
2007-08-27 14:24:47
75.   Greg Brock
I personally hope it's a statue of the fans.
2007-08-27 14:26:03
76.   bhsportsguy
61 Mattingly just completed his first full year of baseball, lets compare to the other players going to Hawaii (Players in Bold need to added to 40-man roster or be exposed to Rule V Draft)

Steven Johnson (2005)(20 years old)
Garrett White (2006)(23)
Kyle Wilson (2004)(24)
Kenley Jansen (2004)(20) (Played in Hawaii in 2006)
Josh Bell (2005)(20)
Russell Mitchell (2003)(22)
Jamie Hoffmann (2003)(23)
Ryan Rogowski (2005)(23)

Going to the AFL, its clear (at least to me) that this will be a litmus test to see who stays and goes on the 40-man roster as every player aside from Blake DeWitt is either on the roster or needs to be by the end of November to protect them from the Rule V Draft.

Zach Hammes (2002)(23)(40 man)
Justin Orenduff (2004)(24)
Greg Miller (2002)(22)(40 man)
Wesley Wright (2003)(22)
Cory Wade (2004)(24)
Blake DeWitt (2004)(22)
Xavier Paul (2003)(22)

Blake DeWitt has one more season until he needs to be added to the 40-man roster.

2007-08-27 14:28:23
77.   bhsportsguy
I think the Earth just shifted off its axis, as I listen to Frank Deford and Colin Cowherd discuss the Vick case on KPCC, the Herd on NPR, yikes.
2007-08-27 14:29:40
78.   paranoidandroid
64 was it tims mitt i saw

if you want tix for tonight, call me and leave your phone and email address on my voicemail

i can email them around 4:30 pm or you can pick them up in Palmdale. i'll be away from computer until 4:30.

my number is 661-992-1435

2007-08-27 14:33:29
79.   Bumsrap
"Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet. They go together in the good old U.S.A. Baseball and hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet."

Make that Costco's Hebrew National hot dog instead of the current hot dog posing as a Dodger Dog and that alone would improve Dodger Stadium dining especially if the price were realistic. At least the overpricing of beer keeps the stadium more sober and I guess overpricing unhealthy food keeps us able to root for the Dodgers in a longer lifetime.

2007-08-27 14:34:49
80.   Bumsrap
Wells may not have agreed to sign with the Dodgers if it too long between innings to get a hot dog. Ask Jay Johnstone.
2007-08-27 14:39:04
81.   bhsportsguy
79 I have seen no evidence that the price of beer inhibits drinking at Dodger Stadium.

Now the wait to get the beer, that's another question.

Farmer John (also the vendor at Angel Stadium) will be the manufacturer of Dodger Dogs for as long as their baseball played in Dodger Stadium.

2007-08-27 14:40:34
82.   regfairfield
79 I thought Der Weinerschnitzel provided the dogs for the Angels.
2007-08-27 14:45:35
83.   LogikReader

Common misconception. Nope, the Angel Stadium dogs are genuine Farmer John goodness. You can get them char broiled by the entrance :)

2007-08-27 14:45:49
84.   Bumsrap
Der Weinerschnitzel hot dog ads are disgusting. Whatever that brown sauce is they put on their hot dogs should not be shown on TV.

For those that have to drink lots of beer I guess they will continue to buy at whatever price but the price does cut down on beer drinking if only I have to speak for myself.

That is quite a contract Farmer John must have signed with O'Mally.

2007-08-27 14:45:57
85.   LogikReader

It's like a Dodger Dog compressed to an 8" length.

2007-08-27 14:47:31
86.   LogikReader
Can anyone think of a worse hot dog than Wienerschnitzel? I can't do it... It's the worst, Jerry, the WORST!
2007-08-27 14:49:13
87.   bhsportsguy
81 I made the statement on Dodger Dogs based only on their long association between the Dodgers and Farmer John, not on any knowledge of their actual contract.
2007-08-27 14:49:57
88.   D4P
Der Weinerschnitzel hot dog ads are disgusting. Whatever that brown sauce is they put on their hot dogs should not be shown on TV

Speaking of which: has anyone seen that commercial for bran cereal with the construction guy eating a bowl of said cereal on the construction site? The end of the ad is seemingly inappropriate, yet funny.

2007-08-27 14:50:04
89.   Bumsrap
I kind of thought that.
2007-08-27 14:51:43
90.   Bumsrap
88 - Hard hats at construction sites serve multiple purposes I guess.
2007-08-27 14:51:57
91.   PDH5204
Jon, back to a previous topic, to wit, Joe Maddon and the new math. Today's bottom of the 7th at Chicago, with the DRays up 4-0 and Edwin Jackson pitching:

A.J. Pierzynski homered to deep right
J. Dye homered to deep left
J. Uribe homered to deep left
D. Richar doubled to right
D. Wheeler relieved E. Jackson

Don't know about you, but the 2nd homer would have done it for me. The new math convert named Joe Maddon, however, decided to leave Edwin in for the 3rd homer and then the double following. Way to go Joe, and so your team just lost another game it might have won. If today was the experiment in having Edwin keep pitching following adversity, well, the experiment failed miserably.

2007-08-27 14:54:14
92.   regfairfield
91 Was there even anyone ready in the pen? Jackson unraveled quickly, and it's entirely possible he had no one warming up until the first or second jack.
2007-08-27 14:56:41
93.   BlueCrew Bruin
"A.J. Pierzynski homered to deep right
J. Dye homered to deep left
J. Uribe homered to deep left"

Isn't it kind of redundant for Gameday (I assume that's from Gameday) to add "deep" to the description of a homer? Does it ever say "homered to shallow left" when the game is at Fenway?

2007-08-27 14:57:59
94.   silverwidow
The only non-roster Sept call-ups that make sense are Meloan and Hu. I don't see the point in trying to make room for 4A players like Valdez and Lindsey.
2007-08-27 14:58:14
95.   dzzrtRatt
If Stults goes 5-0 the rest of the way and helps the Dodgers get into the playoffs, that will be noticed. If Wells goes 5-0 the rest of the way and helps the Dodgers get into the playoffs, that will be noticed more, just because it makes for a better story.

Everyone thought Wells was washed up and Colletti's signing of Wells was a last-ditch, desperation move. So that's one element. But the bigger piece is: Wells is 44. A lot of us are 44 or older. Wells is fat. A lot of us are fat. It's nice to see a fat guy drag a bunt and pitch five decent innings. It'll be even nicer if he can do it repeatedly.

Shorter version: David Wells is in line to become the new Jose Lima, if he delivers.

2007-08-27 15:03:03
96.   Howard Fox
95 but is his wife as nice looking as Jose's?
2007-08-27 15:05:21
97.   ImprobableImpossible
Wells = "experienced veteran savvy"
Stults = "kid"

Referee Ned Colletti stops the fight and declares Wells the winner by TKO.

2007-08-27 15:05:22
98.   Gagne55
94 At least we know Hu is going to get called up.
2007-08-27 15:06:04
99.   Gagne55
98 Dude, that joke got old long ago.
2007-08-27 15:10:29
100.   Eric Enders
93 I think it has to do with the software the Gameday inputters use. They have a diamond on their screen and have to plot where on it the ball goes. The field is divided into quadrants like shallow left and deep right, which are usually more useful in describing base hits and fly balls. It's just that all the fly balls going over the wall are in the part of the outfield that's been designated as "deep."
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-08-27 15:11:18
101.   jasonungar07
gotta love/hate tj simers..

The Dodgers were 24 games above .500 with Paul DePodesta and Jim Tracy during the Parking Lot Attendant's first year of on-the-job training in L.A., but now that Frank McCourt really knows what he's doing, the Dodgers are 225-228 the last three years. I wonder whether DePodesta and Dan Evans would agree to a consulting fee.

2007-08-27 15:11:23
102.   King of the Hobos
94 The organization seems to like Valdez due to his versatility, a la Lucille II, and he'll likely take over Lucille II's role when he becomes veteran enough.

Lindsey is just being rewarded for hitting well I guess. If nothing else, he's a nice story (after spending 4 years in A+, 2 in AA, and 2 in the CanAm League, he's finally in AAA, and possibly the majors, at age 30).

2007-08-27 15:12:04
103.   underdog
91/92 - Given it's the bottom of the 7th, it shouldn't have taken the coaches more than a batter (if that) to realize they should have someone up just in case, yet alone by the 2nd home run. Maddon does a lot of things like that all year that would drive me crazy if I were a DRays fan.
2007-08-27 15:12:44
104.   Greg Brock
99 Did you just heckle yourself?
2007-08-27 15:14:29
105.   bhsportsguy
Hey Greg Brock:
The Southern League named some ficticious Jacksonville pitcher as Pitcher of the Week and on Kevin Goldstein's Weekly Ten-Pack, he goes as far as to call this player, the best pitching prospect in the game.
2007-08-27 15:16:55
106.   LogikReader

Usually I just ignore TJ Simers and he goes away, but are you trying to tell me that Simers is about to validate DePo when he called the same guy "Computer Boy" and ridiculed him for two years before he moved on?

Give me a break.

2007-08-27 15:18:39
107.   Greg Brock
2007-08-27 15:22:43
108.   Eric Enders
91 There is one aspect on which I agree with Grady Little's "Nintendo manager" crack, and that's the use of relief pitchers. Specifically, people often criticize a manager's use of pitchers without considering the need to warm pitchers up before bringing them in. It takes a while to warm up a pitcher. Certainly more than eight pitches of game action, which is what it would have taken to remove Jackson after the second homer. And don't give me any nonsense about how you would have had a pitcher already warming up when the inning started. No, you wouldn't have. There's nothing relievers hate more than warming up without actually coming into a game. And there was no reason to believe Jackson would need relief; he was pitching a shutout and had retired eight of the last nine batters. And have you seen Tampa Bay's bullpen lately?

I understand the urge to make snarky comments about managers. I often make them myself. But the thing with snarky comments is, they look really bad if it turns out we didn't know what we were talking about.

It's sort of like Greg Brock's philosophy on partaking of the silliness. All the nonsensical second-guesses help give the legitimate ones a bad name.

2007-08-27 15:23:09
109.   underdog
107 Don't you mean:


2007-08-27 15:23:10
110.   jasonungar07
I know, I love that he is on the Coletti needs to go kick, but can't get over that he just killed google boy when he was here.
2007-08-27 15:27:11
111.   regfairfield
94 I think Lindsay might be an interesting callup. He would be terrible in extended use, but he might hit a couple bombs if you just used him sparingly and never gave the league a chance to figure him out.
2007-08-27 15:27:13
112.   Bluebleeder87
Everyone thought Wells was washed up and Colletti's signing of Wells was a last-ditch, desperation move. So that's one element. But the bigger piece is: Wells is 44. A lot of us are 44 or older. Wells is fat. A lot of us are fat. It's nice to see a fat guy drag a bunt and pitch five decent innings. It'll be even nicer if he can do it repeatedly.

Shorter version: David Wells is in line to become the new Jose Lima, if he delivers.

This is just a MASTERFUL ANALOGY! (also kind of funny) dzzrtRatt is on his A game cause his #(40 ) was right on in my opinion.

2007-08-27 15:27:57
113.   Eric Enders
The nonexistent Southern League pitcher has also morphed from "the best left-handed pitching prospect in baseball" into "the best pitching prospect in baseball," according to the aforementioned report.
2007-08-27 15:30:56
114.   Greg Brock
Felipe Jordan is the best pitching prospect in baseball. Kid is 6'6", with a 97 mph fastball and an absolute hammer of a curve. If he can refine his changeup, he might make it to the majors by mid 2008.

See, I can make up baseball players too.

2007-08-27 15:31:16
115.   PDH5204
92 I am assuming that Joe knows that we don't manage just based on today, but instead on the pitcher's history. Edwin has no real history of throwing complete game shutouts, so I would have had someone up in the pen to start the 7th just in case. Bud Black would have otherwise sent someone in the field out to talk to Edwin after the first homer and got someone up in the bullpen at the same time. Then, when the home plate umpire goes out to break up the chat between the fielder and the pitcher, Bud himself comes out the dugout and has his own meeting on the mound with the pitcher, thereby giving the reliever more time to get ready. After the second homer, Bud would then have waited until the third batter was just about in the box and then came out and asked for time and would have waited for the umpire to ask him to make the necessary substitution following the visit to the mound [Bud might have even given the signal to the pitcher to step off the mound, fool around with the rosin bag, etc, before stepping back on the mound to face the third batter and before Bud himself comes out for the 2nd time]. All of that should provide the reliever with the time to get ready to come in to pitch to the next batter following the second homer. As you can gather, I'd rather have Bud Black managing either the Dodgers or the DRays, but that's another topic of discussion.
2007-08-27 15:31:47
116.   underdog
108 I think it's true that the DRays bullpen is probably another reason he's hesitant to take the starter out. Really bad, except for Reyes, who isn't all that great either. That's a fair point. (Normally, though, I would have someone warming up at least by the 2nd homer - but that's partially an NL thought process and partially being used to having a halfway decent bullpen).
2007-08-27 15:34:41
117.   Jon Weisman
Catfish Stew is alive with flavor!
2007-08-27 15:35:20
118.   PDH5204
108 As I told Sam in DC yesterday, I have seen every DRays game this year. You have someone up in the 7th, and we don't care what they like, since if they object or refuse, we DFA them just like Cox and Co. DFA'd Wickman for his refusal to enter a game in a non-save situation. As I said in my prior comment, we don't otherwise manage as if the one game was the entire history, we manage based on the pitcher's history and Edwin has no real history of being effective into the 7th inning and beyond. You can otherwise read what I've written above re how you obtain the necessary time in relatively short order [in terms of game time].
2007-08-27 15:36:23
119.   Wilbert Robinson
115 Edwin has no real history of throwing complete game shutouts, so I would have had someone up in the pen to start the 7th just in case

2007-08-27 15:36:58
120.   bhsportsguy
101 Simers has a problem with the Dodgers in the sense that whatever he writes, it doesn't cause the same reaction as his Laker/Kobe Bryant or USC/Pete Carroll columns.

He knows (as he states in that column), the Dodgers have increased their attendance by almost 10% since McCourt took over the team and those fans show no signs of any reaction based on who is actually playing on the team.

All he can do is invent nicknames and continually write these types of columns which no one ever reads anyway.

Have the Angels peaked?
On average, the Angels sell about 93% of their available tickets for each game, their attendance has remained either consistent or stagnant based on your reading of the facts.

Angels (45,113)

2007 - 42,011
2006 - 42,059
2005 - 42,033
2004 - 41,675

Dodgers (56,000)

2007 - 47,484
2006 - 46,400
2005 - 44,489
2004 - 43,065

The Dodgers will sell over 400,000 more tickets than the Angels this year, though that is smallest difference between two team markets in MLB.

The Yankees are the next at over 480,000 above the Mets, the Cubs will sell over 500,000 more seats than the White Sox, and the biggest difference by far, the Giants who will sell just under 1.3 million tickets more than the Oakland A's.

2007-08-27 15:37:38
121.   dzzrtRatt
115 Gee, if you like Bud Black so much, why don't you marry him?

Sorry...sometimes I channel an 8-year-old from 1962.

2007-08-27 15:39:23
122.   Jacob L
I'd be shocked if TJ Simers failed to pile on any time a local team implodes the way the Dodgers have in the last month. That's what he does. The fact that Plaschke is in "stand by your man" mode is no more or less surprising.

By the way, I've been away from work (and hence DT) for the last few weeks, after welcoming Sadie L to the fold on 8/11. She's going to be a great Dodger fan, though she's a bit discouraged by the team's play/front office shenanigans during her lifetime. Its funny, her big sister's birth coincided with the Dodger collapse in May 05.

I did sneak away from the house to take big sister to the Dodger/Stros game last homestand. It was nice to see Bob T. and to meet BH. I guess I missed Vishal that night.

2007-08-27 15:41:19
123.   Eric Enders
118 OK, but when I said relievers "hate" warming up without getting used, it was not a reference to their delicate feelings. It was a reference to the fact that, with virtual unanimity, they feel it hampers their performance if they actually do come into the game later, and also affects their availability for future games. You can DFA your whole bullpen out of spite if you want to, but then you've got to find their replacements. I do think warming up relievers willy-nilly without usually using them is a pretty big waste of resources. And I don't think a manager can be legitimately criticized for failing to automatically have somebody warming up behind a pitcher who is pitching a shutout in the seventh inning and has cruised through the past few innings.
2007-08-27 15:42:55
124.   bhsportsguy
122 Nice meeting you too, it was such a relaxing game. Bob and I went down to see/meet Vishal after you two left. Though not after multiple malts, I hope the kids got to sleep at a decent hour after all the sugar.
2007-08-27 15:46:03
125.   Jon Weisman
Sandy Alomar Jr. DFAed by the Mets.
2007-08-27 15:48:53
126.   D4P
after welcoming Sadie L to the fold on 8/11. She's going to be a great Dodger fan, though she's a bit discouraged by the team's play/front office shenanigans during her lifetime. Its funny, her big sister's birth coincided with the Dodger collapse in May 05

So much for "growth management"...

2007-08-27 15:55:56
127.   Jacob L
124 Thanks, and, in fact, no. She was jacked up like crazy when we got home, but it was worth it.
2007-08-27 16:07:15
128.   ucladodger

you cant blame Maddon at all today. I watched the entire game and Edwin was brilliant for 6 innings. Not striking out guys, but forcing weak grounders, jam shots, bloops, etc. Only 2-3 balls all day were hit hard and he was at 80 pitches through 6. Pierzynski hit a hanging 1st pitch change up for a bomb, and it was just a bad pitch. Dye was in a long AB, was let off the hook by the ump on what should have been a called 3rd strike and hit a 93 mph fastball bearing in on his hands for a homer. Great pitch, better hitting. The pitch to Uribe was a "get me over slider", which had been effective because of the patience of the Sox hitters all game long. Then after Hickey went to the mound he was in another long battle and gave up a double. I guess you could say Maddon needed a reliever up after the 2nd homer and should have taken him out after the 3rd, but i cant fault him for that. Edwin pitched a great game on a low pitch count, but didnt execute in the 7th. Its a learning experience and he'll bounce back. He's been great for the last 2 months, and 1 inning shouldnt derail his progress.

2007-08-27 16:10:17
129.   PDH5204
123 Fine, we disagree re having someone up in the pen to start the 7th. Now speak to all the things that Bud Black does in games to give his relievers the time they need while not having much "game time" elapse. Re the next few games and just who might be needed in relief, Hammel starts tomorrow and then Shields and Kazmir following[Shields and Kazmir both went into the 9th in their last starts and they have the history that Edwin doesn't, and, yes, there are still no guarantees that such will be the case in the next start].

119 One game does not a history make. Call it aberration. And I otherwise understand that Joe was trying to build Edwin's confidence but it might have the opposite effect here, as Edwin's line is 6 IP and a 6.00 ERA on the day. To save both game and confidence, I would have either had someone up to start the 7th [preferably someone who hadn't gotten some work over the last two days (that way, if Edwin works out following the first homer, we can always say that we had the reliever up just to have him throw some before he grew cobwebs) or else gotten someone up following the first homer and then played Bud Black and did everything I could to give the reliever time to warm up without the expenditure of much game time. And, sorry, but as I remarked yesterday, there was that game early on this year where Joe allowed the pen to give up a 4 run lead in the 9th and no Reyes in sight, and that on the premise that if Reyes pitched in that game and saved it, he would have then pitched three games in a row and so would be unavailable the next night against the Yankees. Apparently, Joe is unfamiliar with that adage known to the English-speaking world, to wit, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush [and Joe wasn't even weighing the 1 caught with the two in the bush, but 1 in hand with 1 tomorrow]. His latest and greatest move is now telling Iwamura to become a groundball hitter. And with that, I need get back to work, before I get DFA'd.

2007-08-27 16:14:02
130.   Jon Weisman
By the way, I have no opinion on Joe Maddon as a manager. I don't know whether he practices what he preaches - I just liked what he preached.

Didn't someone mention earlier that Bud Black's team has a below-par record when leading after six innings?

2007-08-27 16:14:04
131.   Marty
125 Hey I had that in the last thread!
2007-08-27 16:20:55
132.   Sam DC
Barry Svrluga who has the Nationals beat for the Post is a great writer and is well informed about the game. But this from his blog this afternoon is kind of funny: "Here's your lineup from Chavez Ravine. This is a nice place, but I have to say that the seats here are faded more than those at RFK."

Unless it's just tongue in cheek and I'm missing it.

2007-08-27 16:21:58
133.   Jon Weisman
131 - Oops! Dock me one.
2007-08-27 16:22:41
134.   underdog
Yeah, I don't know if I agree with the praise heaped on Bud Black above, separate from one's opinion of Maddon. Frankly, I'm hard pressed to think of a working manager today whom I'd expect to be infallible. Nobody's perfect, it's so hard to find good help these days, and other cliches. Joe Torre looked like a "genius" for many years, but it's hard to find a Yankee fan today who doesn't have some issue with him this year, f'rinstance. Scioscia's imperfect, too.
2007-08-27 16:23:03
135.   Jon Weisman
132 - I don't know, Sam. Reads to me like he thinks the seats were faded over time rather than by design.
2007-08-27 16:24:45
136.   D4P
My favorite manager (er, Mr. Manager...)

2007-08-27 16:24:51
137.   Sam DC
Well, I commented on this at his blog. We'll see if he posts a correction.
2007-08-27 16:26:04
138.   Greg Brock
132 Our nation's capital is unfamiliar with pastels?
2007-08-27 16:27:21
139.   El Lay Dave
132 Aren't some of the seats at RFK the old seats from Dodger Stadium, particularly the orange and yellow ones? If so, isn't that the joke?
2007-08-27 16:29:50
140.   Sam DC
139 -- some are, but I don't think that many. And I don't think the ones at RFK are original DS either, as they are not pastel.
2007-08-27 16:31:26
141.   King of the Hobos
Branyan is available yet again, but I have a feeling we're sticking with Hillenbrand.
2007-08-27 16:31:41
142.   El Lay Dave
140 The old orange and yellow seats were pretty bright before they faded, not quite what I would term pastel, but I'm not a decorator by trade.
2007-08-27 16:32:32
143.   El Lay Dave
141 Well, Hillenbrand's good enough to bat fifth! ;)
2007-08-27 16:33:37
144.   Sam DC
Wow - Melky Cabrera just made one amazing catch.
2007-08-27 16:34:06
145.   El Lay Dave
138 Brett Tomko probably knows something about them. Charcoals too.
2007-08-27 16:34:54
146.   bhsportsguy
130 That was me.

No question, the biggest difference between the D-Backs and Padres is their record in close games, the Padres are 34-31 in games decided by 1 and 2 runs, the D-Backs are 36-23 in similar games.

Most experts say that a good record in 1-run games is mostly by luck and a lot has been written about the Diamondbacks and their Jekyl and Hyde games where they win close games, usually by getting good starting pitching and using their "good" relievers while when they lose, they get blown out. The Padres have tough luck in close games but usually win their games by getting good starting pitching and scoring 5 or more runs.

I am not sure how that reflects on Bud Black as a manager but it is how the season has played out so far.

2007-08-27 16:36:51
147.   King of the Hobos
Branyan's stay with the Phillies: 9 AB, 2 HR, 6 K
2007-08-27 16:38:05
148.   El Lay Dave
After much internal debate, I think I'd score that last round 10-8 Wells. Wells didn't have to face one more batter since he completed the fifth, while Stults didn't retire his batter in a lefty-lefty matchup (granted, he's Delgado) yielding two runs and getting knocked out, Seanez had to appear in the fifth and, in a wicked combo, as part of a two-for-one with Loney hitting the bench. Oooof!
2007-08-27 16:44:12
149.   Eric Enders
I'm not sure I can blame Stults for the manager's dimwittedness in benching Loney.
2007-08-27 16:45:02
150.   Kevin Lewis

I am amazed at the people around me who put down five $8 beers at Dodger stadium. Not only is the beer not good, but that's $40 on beer alone.

Maybe I am too cheap...but I still refuse to park in the lot after the increase to $15. I have learned to enjoy the walk and saving the money.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-08-27 17:07:44
151.   MJW101
[Jon] Referring back to the previous thread for a moment.

Basically, when Ned did not resign Maddux he signed Wolf to take his spot in the rotation.

The team was 11-7 in the games started by Wolf, Hendrickson replaced Wolf and the team went 2-4 in his 6 starts, then Stults took over and the team went 1-1 in his 2 starts. That is a total of 14-12 in 26 starts.

SD has gone 14-13 in Maddux's 27 starts this season.

Leaving out the $$$ and the differences (?) in the offense/defense/stadiums of each team it seems to be a wash.

2007-08-27 17:09:44
152.   Jon Weisman
151 - Thanks. That's a lot that you are leaving out, though.
2007-08-27 17:12:14
153.   El Lay Dave
149 No, but if Stults retires Delgado, he is merely PH for in the top of the 6th and Seanez goes in the 9 hole. Not Stults' fault directly, but it allowed the opportunity for the "manager's dimwittedness" to shine brightly.
2007-08-27 17:18:34
154.   Lexinthedena
153-I could be late with this....but in fairlness to Grady, Ramon Martinez has come through with more big hits than anyone else lately....
2007-08-27 17:21:26
155.   regfairfield
154 He's also probably the least likely person to continue producing big hits.
2007-08-27 17:22:50
156.   Howard Fox
154 I may not be a numbers guy, but does not a sample make
2007-08-27 17:23:58
157.   Howard Fox
151 152 maybe be overly simplistic analysis, but it does so happen that 14-12 and 14-13 is virtually a wash...
2007-08-27 17:25:56
158.   Jon Weisman
157 - It's a wash, but it doesn't tell us how many more games the Dodgers would have won or lost with Maddux pitching for them.
2007-08-27 17:29:56
159.   Jon Weisman
Put another way, do you think San Diego would have gone 14-13 with Wolf, Hendrickson and Stults taking Maddux's starts?
2007-08-27 17:33:25
160.   Lexinthedena
155, 156- I don't disagree, but Grady wasn't without reason....
2007-08-27 17:33:26
161.   Lexinthedena
155, 156- I don't disagree, but Grady wasn't without reason....
2007-08-27 17:34:13
162.   Suffering Bruin
Did Maddux leave us or did we leave Maddux? I thought Colletti said Boras was asking the Dodgers for more money than what Maddux got from San Diego. Ned was quoted as saying something like, "If Boras had told us that's what he wanted, Maddux would be a Dodger."

Sure, I'd look it up but then, that requires research... tired now.

2007-08-27 17:36:14
163.   MJW101
Are the SD and LAD offenses comparable? Neither is a heavy hitting club. Maddux had the advantage of pitching in PETCO. Both SD and LA have very good bullpens capable of holding a lead. With the LAD offense on vacation for so long I do not think even Maddux could have made a difference.
2007-08-27 17:38:04
164.   El Lay Dave
154 Sweeney came in to play 1st in the 2-for-1, not Martinez. Either could have simply pinch-hit for Stults in the 6th, whichever made more sense after Hillenbrand's PA.
2007-08-27 17:42:40
165.   natepurcell
It's been a long time since we've seen a left-handed prospect this young and this good, with one scout recently comparing him to "Scott Kazmir with five more inches and 30 more pounds."

he's not real, he's not real, he's not real...

2007-08-27 17:43:35
166.   Zak
162 I'm too lazy to look it up too, but i fmy memory serves me correctly, I think Maddux wanted a 2nd year and Colletti was not willing to give that. I vaguely remember Maddux saying that if LA had matched SD's offer, he would have stayed or something like that.

Also, there was a lot of insinuation around that time by Colletti that he was Boras was scum and if he could avoid it, he wouldn't want to work with Boras again. He was deeply scarred by the whole Drew opt-out thing.

As Donkey once told Shrek, "you cut me deep, Shrek, you cut me deep."

2007-08-27 17:44:59
167.   D4P
Scott Kazmir with five more inches and 30 more pounds


2007-08-27 17:45:17
168.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Can somebody explain the references to "Lucille II"? From context, I think they are referring to Martinez. Why the nickname? Who was Lucille I?
2007-08-27 17:45:48
169.   Eric Enders
No lineup yet. Probably because Ned is trying to see if his waiver claim for Rafael Belliard will go through in time for opening pitch.
2007-08-27 17:45:49
170.   Lexinthedena
166- I've been thinking a little about that lately......Are there other GM's with such thin skin that they hold a grudge against one of the ost important agents in the sport?
2007-08-27 17:46:09
171.   Lexinthedena
166- I've been thinking a little about that lately......Are there other GM's with such thin skin that they hold a grudge against one of the ost important agents in the sport?
2007-08-27 17:46:38
172.   Zak
wow, lot of mistakes in that post. "he thought Boras was scum" should be the first line in the 2nd para.
2007-08-27 17:47:15
173.   Andrew Shimmin
Can we all agree that, no matter whether Wolf/Hendrickson were better than Maddux would have been, or not, Maddux ought to have been offered arbitration? If he'd accepted, it would have been a one year deal, for something in the neighborhood of what he made this year. But he very likely wouldn't have accepted it, and the Dodgers would have ended up with what they did, plus two draft picks, including (had the Padres still signed him, which is less likely, but not unlikely) the 23rd pick in the first.
2007-08-27 17:48:10
174.   Zak
170 I doubt that the grudge is sustainable and I think Colletti realizes that now. But at the time, I feel that he did have delusions of never dealing with him again.
2007-08-27 17:49:43
175.   bhsportsguy
170 I doubt it, for one, it wouldn't do Scott Boras any good to have a bad relationship with the Dodgers, and I am sure Ned is of the school that it is not personal, its business.

Did he not appreciate how the J.D. Drew opt-out went down, that is probably a correct analysis but its not like he shut down negotiations with other Boras clients based on what happened with J.D. Drew.

2007-08-27 17:50:19
176.   Bluebleeder87

it's an "I love Lucy" thing I don't know the exact details though, personally I like RM2 better.

2007-08-27 17:50:40
177.   Jon Weisman
I would say the Lucille II question is the all-time FAQ at Dodger Thoughts.

Ramon Martinez is the second Ramon Martinez on the Dodgers - that's the II part. The Lucille part refers to the two Lucilles on the TV show, "Arrested Development."

2007-08-27 17:50:43
178.   King of the Hobos
168 It's a reference to the Liza Minnelli character from Arrested Development. Essentially Martinez is the second Ramon Martinez, and far less appealing than his counterpart.
2007-08-27 17:50:46
179.   Zak
168 I don't know the whole story but it's a reference to someone from the TV show, Arrested Development named Lucille. I'm sure it was funny at the time, but honestly I think it's overplayed and people would stop thinking it sounds smarter or funnier to keep saying that. Lots of new readers on this site have no idea what it means.

I saw another reference today that I have no idea who it refers to, and I come here almost everyday. I wish people would just use names. Sorry I'm not that hip or in.

2007-08-27 17:51:40
180.   Zak
Sorry if that came out harsh, it's just the only pet peeve I have here and it came out strong.
2007-08-27 17:52:45
181.   natepurcell
I saw another reference today that I have no idea who it refers to, and I come here almost everyday. I wish people would just use names. Sorry I'm not that hip or in.

Probably the Minotaur.

2007-08-27 17:52:45
182.   Andrew Shimmin
In the last 24(ish) hours, I've seen David Wells get a bunt single, and Sean Casey hit a triple.

Get right with the Ch-i; this is the end of days.

2007-08-27 17:53:02
183.   bhsportsguy
176 For your theory to work, it would have to be a reference to the second or third Lucille Ball sitcom (The Lucy Show or Here's Lucy). But since no one ever talks about those shows, that would have been an even more obscure reference.
2007-08-27 17:54:17
184.   MJW101
As was mentioned earlier Ned does not like BORA$$ anymore and did not want to have to deal with him over the Maddux signing. Anything else said by either side was just BS sugarcoating. I do not think offering arb was really an option for Ned at that point.

Logic has nothing to do with far too many recent Dodger decisions.

2007-08-27 17:54:18
185.   Zak
181 LOL, no it wasn't actually. Hold on I'll tell ya.
2007-08-27 17:54:49
186.   bhsportsguy
Bison (Kemp)
3.5 (Ethier)
Minotaur (unknown, okay Kershaw)

Those are the most popular.

2007-08-27 17:54:50
187.   Eric Enders
173 "Can we all agree that, no matter whether Wolf/Hendrickson were better than Maddux would have been, or not, Maddux ought to have been offered arbitration?"

No, I don't think we can. At the time, I was as upset as anyone that Maddux didn't get offered arb, but I do think there was a reason behind it.

The deadline for players to accept or decline arb is in mid-December. Had we offered it, we're basically handicapped in trying to acquire other pitchers until then. What if, while you're waiting for Maddux, all the good free agent pitchers sign elsewhere -- and then Maddux turns down arbitration. What if you sign two pitchers and then Maddux suprises you and accepts? Then you've got a $12 million sixth wheel. The decision to not offer it was a timing thing. Perhaps there was a way to work around it, but it was a much more intricate situation than can be grasped by just saying "Ned's an idiot because he didn't offer Maddux arbitration."

Particularly with Boras involved, this had the potential to become the same sort of Roger Clemens coy offseason game of footsie that wrecked the Astros and cost their GM his job.

Not that I disagree that Ned's an idiot. I just potentially disagree on that particular reason.

2007-08-27 17:57:53
188.   Jon Weisman
179 - I haven't originated any of the nicknames, but some definitely have sentimental value.
2007-08-27 17:58:15
189.   Zak
186 Thanks.. I knew those.

181 Can't find it.

Sorry again, didn't mean to go all Costanza on everyone.

2007-08-27 17:58:46
190.   Bluebleeder87
I always thought it was an I love Lucy reference, oh well, I still like RM2 better.

ps but to respect Zaks wishes Ramon Martinez.

2007-08-27 17:59:40
191.   Zak
188 I know. It's just hard sometimes to follow a conversation if someone's name is thrown in. Maybe you can add a sidebar with all known nicknames... right under the rules. :) just kidding!!
2007-08-27 18:01:01
192.   Eric Enders
Other DT nicknames
JtD (Joel Guzman)
Flanders (Ned Colletti)
2007-08-27 18:03:47
193.   Eric Enders
Bob, you slacker, hurry up and post something. I'm getting Griddle withdrawal.
2007-08-27 18:03:49
194.   jujibee
I'm not too worried about what could have happened with the Maddux issue. I feel it was shame to let the guy loose for no other reason than his presence with the other members of the pitching staff, not to mention the known quantity and quality you will get from him 9 out of 10 starts, which is 6ish IP 3-4 ER. Having said that, I am worried about the fact that Ned doesn't care to do business with Boras. I completely understand his stance and fully agree with it in principal, but refusing to deal with an agent that represents a lot of very talented players is inexusable. You might not get who/what you want all the time, you might have to pay a little bit more to get who you want, but if dishing out the money he did to (several players)Pierre this offseason is an indication of showing his financial obligation to this team, what's the point not to dish out the cash for a star-type player that Boras represents. I only say this because this offseason Ned is going to be faced with several choices. This division is getting young and talented, and in order to be at the top of the hill after 162 games, a star-type player is what could make the difference, and refusing to deal with an agent who represents a lot of these difference-making type of players is an injustice to the fans.
2007-08-27 18:03:51
195.   Andrew Shimmin
187- I take your point, but we came into the year with Kuo and Billingsley out of the rotation. Hendrickson was out, too, but I'm not ready to hold that against Colletti. Would that he'd stayed out. So, timing and all, Colletti acquired more pitchers than he should have expected he'd have room for. Everybody banded together and got hurt, to alleviate the over-crowding problem, but if Colletti signs Schmidt (which I figure he would have done no matter what), and still Wolff, the practical effect that has on the Opening Day rotation is that it pushes Tomko out of it (Ch-i be praised). It could have been cost neutral, if he'd just not succumbed to his Pierre-loving. But I digress.

Anyway, what were the chances Maddux accepts arbitration? I won't call anybody an idiot over it, but it looks like a bad bet, to me.

2007-08-27 18:05:22
196.   D4P
Bob, you slacker, hurry up and post something

Bob's in Oregon. There's a good chance he won't ever want to leave. Someone better go pick up Casey and take him in.

2007-08-27 18:06:05
197.   Eric Enders
195 There is a budget for the payroll, though. I'm guessing that signing Maddux would have kept us out of the Scmidt running, though of course that's only a guess. Still, Maddux's $12M would have had to come from somewhere.
2007-08-27 18:06:06
198.   Marty
People I don't want on the team:
The Player
Lucille II

People I do want on the team:
Backstop Bacon
Maximum Effort

People I'm indifferent about:
The Rose Bush

2007-08-27 18:06:06
199.   Zak
I respectfully disagree. I feel like if you are the kind of GM who is willing to gamble that both, Schmidt and Wolf will have injury free years, you should be willing to gamble that Maddux will not accept arbitration. I think the odds are better that one of those pitchers will get injured in case we do end up with a $12 million (not sure he'd get 12) 6th pitcher.

Plus it's not a $12 million sixth pitcher, it's Tomko who would be the 6th pitcher and that's just money well spent.

2007-08-27 18:06:27
200.   El Lay Dave
Golden God (Russell Martin)

Speaking of whom, on the radio today, Bill Bavasi said that - rule 6 violation coming - Russell Martin might be the best third baseman in the NL today.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-08-27 18:07:12
201.   Jon Weisman
191 - I could ... I sort of like their underground status. I don't officially endorse all the nicknames.
2007-08-27 18:07:19
202.   Eric Enders
198 There are a couple of those I don't know. Because, you know, clearly I don't spend enough time here.
2007-08-27 18:07:55
203.   Marty
202 Yeah, I kinda made up two on the spot
2007-08-27 18:07:59
204.   Zak
Man, I'm glad my post about not using nicknames brought out the high-schoolers in all of you. :)
2007-08-27 18:08:28
205.   regfairfield
195 Pretty good I think. What are the odds that a 41 year old gets more than one year at likely more than he would get in arbitration. He was coming off a year where he made nine million had had put up a 3.30 ERA for the Dodgers. At the very least, he would be getting a slight raise.

I think he would have taken that.

2007-08-27 18:08:38
206.   Eric Enders
He won't say it, but I think if Jon had his druthers, some of the more derogatory nicknames, like Flanders and Lurch, would disappear.
2007-08-27 18:09:27
207.   Daniel Zappala
179 You can also just be a plain old contrarian like me and ignore any attempt to make nicknames for players. Lifetime memberships for Commenters Against Nicknames Too (CANT) are available for a limited time for $20.
2007-08-27 18:09:42
208.   Eric Enders
196 I know he's out of town. That doesn't excuse it.
2007-08-27 18:10:25
209.   Zak
Alright, I have to check out. Good luck and good game everyone. Later.
2007-08-27 18:10:31
210.   Andrew Shimmin
197- In a vacuum, the decision is harder to criticize. Given that anybody with a passing familiarity with the team could have cut $12 million bucks out of that roster over the winter, while very likely making the team better, makes it easier to criticize.
2007-08-27 18:10:55
211.   regfairfield
199 But that wasn't really a gamble. Between Bills, Kuo, Hendrickson, Elbert and maybe even Houlton and Stults, Ned had to figure that he was well stocked in the event of an injury. There was clearly a plan in the pitching staff, albeit one that involved thinking Tomko and Hendrickson were better than they are.
2007-08-27 18:11:49
212.   Eric Enders
Daniel, of course, now needs a nickname. Which everyone can use in place of his name when you address the envelope for those CD-Rs you're sending him.
2007-08-27 18:11:51
213.   regfairfield
206 Is Flanders even derogatory? I thought it just came from Ned+mustache.
2007-08-27 18:13:12
214.   El Lay Dave
206 Is Lurch derogatory? Lurch was tall, required men to adhere to societal standards by removing their hats for them, was always ready at Morticia and Gomez's beck and call - well, bell ring - and grumbled at all the right moments. Sounds good to me, like a good long man in the 'pen.
2007-08-27 18:14:50
215.   D4P
Daniel, of course, now needs a nickname

Father Abraham...?

2007-08-27 18:15:06
216.   Jon Weisman
206 - Oh, I'll say it. Yes.

I think the Flanders nickname is too superficial - it degrades both men.

2007-08-27 18:15:07
217.   Daniel Zappala
But Commenters Against Derogatory NickNames doesn't have a good acronym. Therefore, we are against all nicknames.

212 Eric, I thought my pledge of support for the EFF, letters to my representatives against the DMCA, and campaign against software patents were enough to turn me back into "cool" and stem the tide of CD-Rs.

2007-08-27 18:15:13
218.   regfairfield
214 Exactly, my nickname choice that never caught on, Gheorghe, is far worse.
2007-08-27 18:16:11
219.   El Lay Dave
215 He's a professor, so how about "[and] the rest"?
2007-08-27 18:16:24
220.   Daniel Zappala
Who am I kidding? I've never been cool in my life. Even D4P, a lowly grad student, can make jokes at my expense.
2007-08-27 18:17:03
221.   Jon Weisman
Phillies and Braves winning big.
2007-08-27 18:18:13
222.   trainwreck
I came up with Flanders the day we hired him because his name was Ned, he had a mustache, but most importantly, I did not like him and most Dodger fans seemed to like him.

I did not call him that for long though.

2007-08-27 18:18:57
224.   Jon Weisman
Game thread opening up.
2007-08-27 18:19:50
225.   Jon Weisman
223 - Come on ...
2007-08-27 18:20:11
226.   regfairfield
222 Hens love roosters, geese love ganders, everyone else loves Ned Flanders.
2007-08-27 18:20:31
227.   D4P
Lo siento.
2007-08-27 18:25:50
228.   trainwreck
Not me!
2007-08-27 18:25:51
229.   bhsportsguy
This off-season will be interesting to see how teams manage their free agents.

Will the Angels offer arbitration to Bartolo Colon, not likely since they could be on the hook for a one year deal for no less than 11.2 million and with his current 7-11 record for the last 2 years, he is not even going to rank as a Type B free agent. Other pitchers include Joe Nathan, who will have his option exercised, the Yankees will resign Rivera, I think Hoffman already guaranteed his 2008 contract. Bobby Abreu has a team option for 16 million or a buyout for 2 million.

Right now, the only 2 players I can see be given arbitration are Andruw Jones and Torii Hunter.

I think the Padres will try and sign Milton Bradley and hope Michael Barrett has a good last month. For one thing, Milton just may not have enough statistics to be worth a Type B free agent (remember it is based on his last 2 seasons and the now you have to finish in the top 40% as opposed to 50% before) and Michael Barrett, while he should be still worth some draft picks, what is worth in the open market. And frankly, if Milton is healthy, he is worth more than a draft pick.

They could be better off trying to get them to sign one-year deals since they don't have any depth in their minor league system anyway.

2007-08-27 18:26:48
230.   regfairfield
228 Everyone that counts loves Ned Flanders.
2007-08-27 18:43:03
231.   Andrew Shimmin
228, 230- I salute you.

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.