Wet blanket

But don't you know that those are "quality" at-bats, despite what your new-fangled statistics might say?

From last thread:
>>417. Greg Brock
David Wells, Derek Lowe, Joe Beimel, Esteban Loiza...
Is Sidney Ponson available? <<

Can't the Dodgers just call up Eric Cyr instead?

Loaiza for 7mils in 2008 wouldnt be bad, but I'd rather give the job to a kid with upside than a 36yr old with probably little left.

3 Because he's a 28 year old who couldn't even strike out six per nine in Jacksonville and is getting bombed in Vegas.

5 Heh. I was referring purely to his off the field problems in the past, as one who would fit in with Greg's list of pitchers there. (Though Cyr's, er, troubles, were of a different variety.) But I do realize he's horrible.

6 Ah, gotcha. Not well versed in the history of Eric Cyr.

4 Looking at baseball-reference, Loaiza looks like a typical meh journeyman. Probably as good a choice as any to fill out the rotation, I guess. Kershaw could still go Greg Miller on us.

7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Cyr#Legal_problems

Fortunate that he's been so bad we won't have to worry about making the team anyway.

i just found out yesterday that i'll be moving to enemy territory; i got a job in san francisco. i might have to take the dodger decal off my truck, but i'll still be sure to represent. with luck, if i time it right, i might be able to go to the upcoming dodgers-giants series in SF!

anyway, now i just need to find a place to live...

Congrats!

Congratulations Vishal! What kind of work will you be doing up there?

Is this like the Bizarro World version of the Alex Rodriguez isn't "clutch" argument?

thanks, sam :)

[12 ] i'll be working for the city, at the finance & planning division of one of the city departments.

10 Good luck and remember I told you that it might be cheaper to commute from L.A.

And also Bob may ignore your existence from now on. Or at least refuse to admit where you actually live.

But you have "trainwreck" and "underdog" I believe who may be able to point you to some places to live.

Is the job in "The City?" (Get used to that as well as never ever use the word "Frisco.")

BH, email me at "l.tabb@mpglaw.com"

I know thee not, Vishal; fall to thy prayers
How ill SF caps become a fool and jester

13 - I'm sure there's someone out there willing to trade Alex Rodriguez for Ramon Martinez straight up. We just have to get him in a position of influence.

Congrats, Vishal! We're all Californians in the end (except those of us who aren't).

thanks for the warm wishes, guys.

oh, i know not to call it "frisco". i went to college in the bay area, after all. :) honestly, san francisco is my favorite city in the world and i can't wait to be up there. it's a great place, i just hate their baseball team. fortunately there is a team right across the bay in oakland that i am also a fan of.

20
See 18 again!

And again!

And again!

20 Oh, you mean the Raiders or maybe the new hip Warriors (Baron, come back to LA).

[19 ] nous sommes tous californiens?

thanks for not minding me cluttering up your blog with my personal stuff, jon. it's just that i spend so much time here that i felt like sharing with everyone.

The weather in San Francisco is nigh perfect.

Of course, there is another Dodger who had RBI in six straight games recently, but didn't get nearly as much attention -- because of course, he's not clutch.

[21 ] lol bob. don't consider it a defection to the dark side. it's more like a forward deployment.

23 Congratulations.

20 i went to college in the bay area, after all.

Come on now, Vishal. You can show a little more school pride than that. "Bay Area" could mean lots of things, some of which are unsavory.

Congrats on the job, my good man. Seems like just yesterday that you headed off for grad school. They grow up so fast!

27 This morning I heard a caller on XM ask their Fantasy Baseball expert, why don't the Dodgers bring up that 19 year old pitcher? Jeff Erickson (RotoWire) said that while he has no problems bringing up hitters, he said you have to be patient with young pitchers.

You know, they never mentioned this pitcher's name, it was as if this was some imaginary character.

10. Congrats! But a place to live? I thought you said you had a truck!? :)
vr, Xei

28 Nervous about Saturday? Apparently, only the whole season rests on that game.

Seems like just yesterday that you headed off for grad school

Meh. Must be a masters student.

29 Interesting, because I've heard that when a pitcher is ready, he's ready no matter what age he's at.

I personally don't like bringing up 19 year olds because if something goes wrong, they end up out of options at age 22 and you have to ship them away for middle relief.

31. Not at all. See, this is the comfort you get from being a long-time Cal fan. When I was a student, we were lucky to win a couple conference games a year. All we really cared about was beating the boys from the Farm. So even though the team is much improved, I still see every win as gravy. If we lose, well, who were we foolin' anyway? Winning is joyous, and losing is not that painful.

That's why I can't stand the sense of entitlement (for at least a bowl game, if not more) felt by fans of perennial powers. I have UCLA students whining about losing a game or two, and I just feel sorry for them. When your team usually sucks, it's much easier to extract joy from small victories.

It's one of the reasons I can't imagine being a Yankee fan.

I have UCLA students whining about losing a game or two

Or six.

Name the two Dodger pitchers with three consecutive lousy starts (game scores of 23 or lower) in the past 10 years.

Then see if you guessed right:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/233

They were no Chad Durbin, let me tell you.

When is the Dodgers-SF series in SF? I want to go to one of those games.

34
That is why I like to offset being an Angel fan with being a Dodger fan. One team I have high expectations for, and the other not so much.

36
Bad Penny for one

36
I don't remember either of those having bad streaks like that while with the Dodgers.

I do love it here in San Francisco, even if there's a latent hostility to Angelenos and an overt hostility towards the Dodgers.

10 18 - Combine these two ideas: live in the Mission. I see more LA caps in the Mission than I do anywhere else, perhaps as many as SF Jint caps...

36 I will guess:
Fernando around 1990
Don Sutton in 1988
Hershiser during his ill-fated comeback

If I say Trifecta after 3 posts in a row what is the 4th post called besides lonely?

[34 ] it doesn't even take that longtime a fan, really. one of the years i was at cal, we went 1-10 [shudder]

anyway, i for one can't wait for saturday. i think this is going to be a great year. i've promised myself that if somehow we make it to the rose bowl, i'm going. i was going to fly out from china early if it happened last year, but alas... the arizona game.

42 Clearly I cannot count -- either to three or to ten.

37 September 7th-9th

some of my best friends are Giant fans... seriously, I mean that!

I would guess that one of the three would be Nomo when just finally lost it.

47

I pity them...

35 Maybe the kids were talking about the basketball team (I mean losing a game or two).

Vishal, if you're anywhere close to it, and you like hot dogs, you MUST make "What's Up Dog?" a regular lunch spot. Best hot dogs West of the Bay, at the very least.

I was up in SF for the All Star Game festivities this year.

My first year at Cal (4 years ago), we still had horrible expectations for the team. I remember getting a tour of the place the summer before, and the student tour guide guy was saying "our basketball team is good, sometimes. our football team... well, we have a football team." That year we beat USC, and we've been a perennial Pac-10 power since then. All 3 years. I suppose I'm a bit spoiled.

36 Would have never guessed those two, not that they are just one hit wonders either.

36 - I have purposely forgotten how bad 1999 was.

52 Watch out, you have the makings of a UCLA basketball fan from 1963-1975.

Of course, you have nothing on what is going down here at the Coliseum. Lived here all my life and never seen anything like this ever. The expectations are so sky high right now, if they don't win by 50 on Saturday, I don't know what the fans will do.

Those two pitchers are also the only two Dodgers to do it since 1957.

Here are the guys who had two in a row:
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/yU8y

[32 ] hey, hey, i did two of them. that extra year and degree has gotta count for something, no? :P

thanks again, gobears, brock, xei, et al. DT is like a web-based cheers bar for me. :)

[51 ] thanks for the tip! i'll check it out.

[41 ] i'm trying not to be picky about neighborhoods. i'd like to be near BART though.

In the Fans' Scouting Report, the number of votes on the Dodgers has jumped up, but five teams still have more.

http://tinyurl.com/2v937q

50 GoBears had to be talking about basketball. I don't think I've ever seen UCLA described as a "perennial power" in college foobaw. Perennial powers are not generally coached by people with special needs.

OK, since I'm a grouch lately, can anybody with a good memory guess what the 10 worst pitched games in Dodger history are (by game score)?

Two of them happened this year.

[48 ] i was thinking nomo as well, but i guess not. i wonder what his game scores were that year.

also, props to andy from baseball-references for correctly using "fewer" instead of "less".

Congrats, Vishal.

UCLA football is really good at beating people down, such as Brock.

Vishal, are you going to live in SF itself or commute?

Did not notice this on todays thread, maybe it was on last nights.

The 39-year-old Luis Gonzalez hasn't started in five of the Dodgers' last eight games, but he isn't becoming accustomed to sitting. And he has no intention of doing so, meaning his time with the Dodgers could be up when his contract expires at the end of the season. Asked whether he saw himself coming back to play under similar circumstances, Gonzalez replied, "No, no, not here. . . . Anything can happen in the last month, but they've got a good nucleus of young kids here and that's their future. I don't know where I'll end up next year. I'll go with an open mind into the off-season and see what happens." So it's unlikely that he'll be back? "I don't want to go on a limb and say that," he said. He paused, then continued, "I mean, look around. I'm not naïve to the game. I've been around. We've got good young players and they're getting the bulk of the load here, especially late in the season." -- LA Times

Not much of a suprise. Looks like he is taking it well.

Brian Bohanan managed to win two of the three consecutive games with game scores under 23. Of course, he was pitching for the Rockies at the time.

Sometimes I miss old Coors Canaveral.

Congrats and welcome back, Vishal! Let us know if you need any tips or anything. I'm at underdog8 at gmail dot com

Icaros will tell you all his favorite spots in the Tenderloin, too.

Some of us up here were talking about going to the Dodgers-G__nts series so maybe we should make it an outing. It's coming up in 2 weeks I think?

Oh and your comment: "honestly, san francisco is my favorite city in the world and i can't wait to be up there. it's a great place, i just hate their baseball team." sums it up for me, and "fortunately there is a team right across the bay in oakland that i am also a fan of" means your trainwreck's new friend.

[63 ] thanks, man! i'd be happy to live almost anywhere between civic center and san bruno/millbrae.

64 Yah, I posted that in previous thread and the general feeling was, "Eh, good for him, glad he's being realistic and if he can't fathom not starting full time throughout a season, then he's... not quite as realistic on that count." More power to him! I'd take him back as a 4th OF because I think he can still contribute, but as a full-timer, no way.

67 As long as it isn't literally civic center (as one who works there). Feh.

67
There are a lot of people who live rent-free in the Civic Center area.

Shifting Gears.........

What's going on in Matt Kemp's head.
Yesterday, besides straying too far from second base on a line drive to the shortstop (Where he was doubled up and ruined a second/third no out rally), he nearly got tagged out at second earlier by coming off the bag on a single and a bobble by the centerfielder.

This is in addition to a number of base running gaffes by him recently, including this past weekend.

Grady's response that "kids will be kids" is not persuasive. Someone has to rope this guy into shape.

68 sorry for the repeat underdog. Thanks for the reactions.

[66 ] that's really nice, i'll shoot you an email, if you don't mind!

I can also keep you up to date on hyphy terminology.

71 The only people who have to be roped into shape are the people who continue to criticize Matt Kemp despite the fact that he is clearly the best hitter on the team.

"He ruined a second and third/no out rally" -- maybe, but he was the one responsible for the rally to begin with!

Yes, he makes mistakes that look really bad sometimes. Nomar and Kent have both made many more blunders on the bases than Kemp this year, and I don't see people criticizing their baseball savvy. People seem to have forgiven Mark Sweeney his mental gaffe. And yet people keep hammering away at Kemp irrationally. The double standard is both perplexing and infuriating.

72 - no worries!

73 - no problem!

---

71 - it's a concern, but he'll learn (hey, that rhymes). Plus, weren't people here worried that Grady would bench the young players when they screw up like that? I thought it was a good sign that he's giving him more leeway, being patient.

66 If the Dodgers game in SF thing happens, I'd love to get in on it. Is there... serious discussion going on somewhere?

[74 ] oh, that's important. if i'm not up on my yay area slang, people will think i'm hella lame.

78
Good, you got the Yay Area down. That is an important one.

Well, basketball and football. OK, so UCLA hasn't been $C or Florida State, but over the last 25 years (and I've been at UCLA for 13+ of 'em), they're usually good to great. How many years have they NOT played in a bowl game?

But see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. At Cal, a winning record was unexpected and thrilling. The Garden State Bowl was cause for serious celebration and a 3000 mile road trip in an overstuffed van. At UCLA, anything short of a BCS bowl is considered a bad season.

I both envy and pity fanerman and his cohort. I'm sure it's much more fun to watch a great team, but trust me, when Tedford leaves, it's gonna hurt you a lot more than it'll hurt me. You've come to expect a good team. I haven't.

If Cal were ever to win the Rose Bowl, to say nothing of a national championship, I think it would have bad long-term effects on the fan base. Sort of like the Cubbies. Honorable failure is much more noble. I think I've said this before: true love comes through shared pain. If you can be fanatical about a team that stinks, then you KNOW you're a real fan.

I think most of us here would cry with joy if UCLA made a BCS bowl this year.

71 Kemp does seem to make more boneheaded plays on the bases and in the field than anybody. His head just doesn't seem to be in the game sometimes. Whether he figures it out or not could be the difference between him being the next Raul Mondesi or Frank Robinson.

Great, now Bob's going to hate Matt Kemp.

82 I think there was more difference between Mondesi and Robinson than some base running blunders.

At UCLA, anything short of a BCS bowl is considered a bad season.

I don't know too many UCLA fans that feel that way. I know I don't. It's not like UCLA has even been to a single one in the history of the BCS. The disconnect is between top 20 recruiting classes and 7-6 or 6-7 records.

I expect to play in a Rose Bowl once a decade. If that constitutes unreasonable expectations, well, there we are.

And I don't mean Mondesi in a bad way. Mondesi had some real solid seasons.

So, Billingsley was pretty good last time out. Does he regress today, or can he put together two back2back?

I think most of us here would cry with joy if UCLA made a BCS bowl this year

And for some, the happy would taste like sad.

seriously, are there any SC fans in here, besides me?

been an SC football fan since the Hackett era, back in high school :)

85.I expect to play in a Rose Bowl once a decade. If that constitutes unreasonable expectations, well, there we are.

Fair enough. I'd say you're more reasonable than many.

But as a Cal Fan, I'd love to play in even one Rose Bowl in my lifetime.

Almost got there a couple years ago, when Texas leapfrogged us in the final polls, but we got crushed in whatever bowl game we did go to, because our entire receiving corps was out with injuries (and we couldn't slow down Texas Tech).

The disconnect is between top 20 recruiting classes and 7-6 or 6-7 records

Or, maybe the disconnect is between the recruiting class rankings and the actual recruiting class quality.

91

You may not have to wait that long. Cal could do it as soon as this year, or within a decade

91 Cal not going to that Rose Bowl was a sham. I was outraged at the lack of outrage at that outrage.

The PAC-10 always gets screwed. Then they compound the problem by losing in the lesser bowl.

87 He's pitching a gem and the Nats are going down!

82 - Kemp has had a rough week on the bases. I can recall four questionable plays - though I think some of the criticism has been overly harsh. But let's say he has made four bad plays. It's not something that he's been doing all season at all.

Kemp doesn't take the best routes to the ball and doesn't quite seem comfortable going to the fence for a catch (he'll go willingly, but he's not sure how exactly to go). But that's not about baseball IQ. That's about development.

He also swings at some bad pitches, but so do 90 percent of batters. Certainly, given X number of pitches, Kemp will produce more with them than almost anyone in the universe at his age.

So he's a developing player. All that being said, this idea that his head is not in the game strikes me as something invented in the past week.

DT Friends:

Can you locate the USA on a globe? You might think it's a ridiculously easy question, but just ask Miss South Carolina about how hard it is.

82 "Kemp does seem to make more boneheaded plays on the bases and in the field than anybody."

True, as long as one recognizes that the key word there is "seem." Kemp is definitely prone to blunders, but no more than some other players. It's just that his blunders tend to LOOK really bad and get stuck in people's heads. There is no way in the world that he makes more offensive and defensive blunders than, to name one, Nomar. Nomar gets thrown out by a mile stupidly trying to go from first to third on a single, and everybody pats him on the butt and says nice effort. Kemp gets hung out to dry on a line drive double play, and it looks really bad and everyone wonders where the kid's head is. But the bottom line is that in either case the sum total is the same; the baserunner still got thrown out.

Kemp, on the bases and in the field, suffers from the same malady that Wilson Betemit did batting. His bad plays simply look worse than other people's, and so people start judging him emotionally based on how those bad plays made them feel, instead of on his actual performance.

And even if I'm completely wrong about this -- even if Kemp does make far more blunders than anyone else on the team -- his hitting more than makes up for it.

94. I disagree. I didn't think Cal had any better claim than Texas - it could go either way. And since the injuries were already known, I wouldn't be surprised if folks anticipated that the Cal team that would show up for a bowl wouldn't be nearly as good as the one that played so well in the regular season.
The depleted Cal squad would have been crushed in the Rose Bowl too, so I was just as happy not to have that be my one Rose Bowl memory.

93. Maybe. Of course, if we get to the Rose Bowl because $C is in the BCS title game elsewhere (I don't know where that is this year), it won't mean as much. I guess what I want is one outright Pac-10 title in my lifetime, whatever the bowl-game implications of that.

89
Present.

98
That was quite a funny answer. Mario Lopez could barely contain his laughter.

Since we're talking football, here's an article for Jon on another Jon ... Alston.

http://tinyurl.com/299rfg

94 Indeed! It was a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.

100

Hey it still counts... sometimes a "consolation" Rose Bowl can still equal a championship, see: 2003 season

89

All right! That makes two... vs 598

99. I think you're on to something here. And I think it's a more general phenomenon. Big guys look worse than they are when they screw up. They have body parts flying all over the place when they lunge at a pitch, or try to change direction, or stop their momentum. Little guys look better than they are.

94 I was outraged at the misguided outrage over that non-outrage.

Look, Texas was a better team than Cal. I know it, you know it, everybody in the world except Pac-10 fans knows it.

[94 ] i was hopping mad, myself. i still haven't forgiven texas. i don't think i ever will.

106 I just like the old days. All the old Bowl setups, the two polls, all that jazz.

89: I'll answer "here" for Marty.

And I've got a long story I could tell you about Timmermann and the sort of college booster madness to which the cold north mountains and an assertive girlfriend can drive a man, but I'll save it for another day.

107 Go play in the Cotton Bowl.

/Anger

106 Little guys look better than they are.

That explains Juan Pierre in the eyes of Ned & Grady.

111

lol... Remember when the Cotton Bowl was a great bowl game to get to?

106 Wily Mo Pena: "I agree."

Sorry, but I'm on the warpath against Pac-10 football unti Reggie Bush's Heisman Trophy -- the award for the nation's best amateur football player -- gets returned to its rightful owner, Vince Young.

Remember when you did not have to hear Thom Brennaman and the rest of FOX's terrible analysts during all the BCS Bowls?

115
Pete Carroll owns the NCAA.

How about a conspiracy theory (of sorts)? The lineup wasn't given out yesterday till just before game time. The explanation was that they didn't know whether or not Kent would play. That doesn't ring true to me because from other things I read there was no question, he was going to play. Suppose there was a big trade in the works and Player X(s) couldn't play because he was changing teams. Who would Player X have been? I don't know but I know whom it wouldn't have been: Not Furcal or Pierre, not Kent, Martin or Martinez, probably not a pitcher. If Luis is dead set on playing every day, I can see Flanders trading Kemp, Ethier, or Loney for a slugger third baseman, he apparently has not confidence in LaRoche. Maybe he thinks one big hitter now will be enough to make the playoffs....

118 - I don't know what you read that said there was no question that Kent was going to play, but I disagree with that premise. Nothing I read coming out of the Dodger organization said Kent was a lock to play.

Putting that aside, Colletti is certainly not going to make a trade just to free up playing time for Gonzalez at this point. Not with Little already choosing to bench him and free agency a month away.

Colletti also fully planned to integrate LaRoche into the lineup before he got hurt.

While I wouldn't rule out a trade for a third baseman, can you name any of significance that have cleared waivers?

119
Did I miss this?
"Colletti also fully planned to integrate LaRoche into the lineup before he got hurt."

120
He seemed to indicate that LaRoche's play in AAA was a factor in trading Betemit.

118 Nobody like that would have cleared waivers so I don't think that a deal like that is possible.

I am not sure where this theory of Ned Colletti having a lack of confidence in Andy LaRoche is coming from, I think this is an example of not watching what is actually happening but basing it on what you want to happen.

Andy LaRoche had a horrible spring training, couldn't field the ball, couldn't hit, then got off to his customary slow start. The fact that he was brought up was more due to the frustration of trying to get someone in that spot. Granted, he did not play as much as you might have liked but that was by some directive from Ned.

When he went back down, he got over some injuries and then no question had a huge July. So huge, that I think that Ned was ready to promote Andy LaRoche at the trade deadline if space opened up. And it did with the Betemit trade. But just as soon as Wilson was heading to New York, LaRoche relapsed and he did not play for 3 weeks.

Now he is back and will probably play out the season at Vegas and perhaps he will join the team next week.

But I still think it was circumstances not confidence in him that kept Andy LaRoche off the team for the last month.

Any DT'ers going to the Tennessee vs. Cal game this weekend? I'll be in the young alumni section...or trying to sneak back into the student section.

120 I haven't seen any evidence anywhere that Colletti was willing to allow the benching of Nomar in favor of LaRoche. However, I think it's a pretty safe assumption that once Nomar got hurt, he would have given a healthy LaRoche a chance before Hillenbrand. Colletti's dumb, but not that dumb.

36 I'm amazed that neither Perez, Carlos nor Odalis, was on that list.

Kemp: He's 22, one year removed from AA. He's learning on the job. Neither time he was out on the bases this week/weekend figured in the outcome of the game, so hopefully he's learned a lot without it costing us a victory. His raw talent and potential give me hope, and if Grady is batting him third, I'm not the only one needing that in the stretch run. It still hurts to watch such a blunder, but you take the good with the bad in this case.

123 I'm debating it, still. I don't know too many people that are getting season tickets (boo).

122
I have no doubt that La Roche would have been promoted when Nomar got hurt, but I do have doubts that he would have been promoted if Nomar had not been hurt.

122 "I am not sure where this theory of Ned Colletti having a lack of confidence in Andy LaRoche is coming from, I think this is an example of not watching what is actually happening but basing it on what you want to happen."

This idea doesn't come from out of nowhere.

- A few times over the past couple of years, Dodger officials have been quoted anonymously in publications like Baseball America, saying vaguely negative things about LaRoche's attitude.

- LaRoche was demoted back to Las Vegas earlier in the year without really getting a chance to play.

- Then there are statements like this one:
"Colletti singled out several Las Vegas position players [as potential September callups] -- Young, Abreu, Wilson Valdez, Chin-Lung Hu and John Lindsey -- along with several pitchers: Jon Meloan, Houlton, Hull and Stults, who is with the Dodgers."
http://www.lvrj.com/sports/9390936.html

But I still think it was circumstances not confidence in him that kept Andy LaRoche off the team for the last month.

You dont sign Shea Hillenbrand if your completely sold on Andy LaRoche.

129 So who were they supposed to play at third while both LaRoche and Nomar were hurt? Dave Jauss?

129 LaRoche was on the DL. Shea was at AAA. A spot opened when Nomar went on the DL.

Shea wouldn't have gotten the nod over a healthy and productive LaRoche.

This is a non-discussion issue. LaRoche had some growing pains in the past, but was simply not healthy when Nomar went down and we needed someone who was. A healthy and cooperative Abreu might have gotten the call also.

129 - If Hillenbrand doesn't sign, Ramon Martinez would be playing third right now. LaRoche is hurt. The Hillenbrand signing had nothing to do with LaRoche's merits.

Anyone else going to the game tonight?

129 Hillenbrand was signed to a minor league deal at or around August 9th/10th, 3 or 4 days after Andy LaRoche stopped playing due to injury.

133 Me.

It's funny. Ryan Zimmerman is 22 and has over the past couple of years made some horrific baserunning blunders. One time, he forgot the number of outs and took off from first on a long fly ball (there was 1 out, he thought 2). By the time the ball was caught, he was near third and basically had to stand there while the Mets slowly relayed the ball through four players to double him off first. This was in the late innings of a 1 run game.

But he is just one of these guys deemed to have "baseball savvy" and it got written about for one day and was then written off as a rookie glitch.

Saenz, Martinez, a card board cut out of Adrian Beltre, etc...

Does it matter?

If you have a top prospect you are completely confident in, you dont go out and sign a "proven" veteran for only two weeks.

Do you really believe Ned went to Hillenbrand and said, "We only need you for two weeks and then were releasing you when the rookie (LaRoche) is available?" Didnt happen, hasnt happened, and wont happen.

132 "LaRoche is hurt."

That should arguably be past tense. I think that for every day that LaRoche continues to play in AAA while Hillenbrand plays in the majors, JoeyP's post gets closer to having some merit. At this particular moment, Ned is choosing Hillenbrand over LaRoche. If a guy is healthy enough to play baseball, then he's healthy enough to play baseball. By waiting until September 1 -- or September 4, when the Vegas season ends -- you may avoid hurting Hillenbrand's feelings by demoting him, but you may also be hurting the team.

The Hillenbrand signing had nothing to do with LaRoche's merits.

Check who is receiving the most playing time in September.

Then re-visit that comment.

BH, maybe I'll find you this time around. You on the reserved level? Let me know. I think I still have your cell # from June when I never made it upstairs.

Esteban coming to the Dodgers? ..........and not Esteban the uber sweet flamenco guitar player who peddles cheap axes on QVC.

http://tinyurl.com/2z4so2

137 - I don't believe Ned made any promises to Hillenbrand other than to pay him the minimum salary for as long as he needed him.

Like it or not, there is a difference between Shea Hillenbrand and a piece of cardboard.

A few people are assuming that LaRoche is entirely healthy right now. He is coming off three weeks of not playing, he needs to play himself into top baseball shape before helping in a pennant race. Also, we've won since Shea showed up. It might not be because of him, but he's played a solid third base and has hit the ball hard at times. He's not a long term solution, like Marlon Anderson last year, but he's fulfilling what is asked of him and he was Johnny on the spot when Nomar went down.

You don't reshuffle the deck now unless LaRoche is knocking down the door. You wait until Saturday!

142 The piece of cardboard is better in the clubhouse? ;)

138 - I believe minor-league rehabilitation assignments are pretty typical for back injuries - especially for minor leaguers. How many at-bats has LaRoche since his return?

Yes, in September, if Hillenbrand is playing ahead of a healthy LaRoche, that will mean something. But if LaRoche had been healthy when Garciaparra went down, LaRoche would have had every chance to take hold of the third base job.

I feel like there are some short memories here. No, the Dodgers don't hand jobs to rookies and play them for 162 straight games. But the signing of a veteran doesn't mean that the rookie won't become the regular.

If you activate LaRoche immediately from a back injury and jump him up a level, you are arguably setting him up for failure. I'm fine with the Dodgers giving him some swings in Las Vegas before promoting him.

143 If the deck deals you out a 2-7 unsuited, then I think you reshuffle as soon as humanly possible.

LaRoche still may be slightly injured. The fact remains, he's healthy enough to be playing baseball. He's healthy enough to be getting on base three times last night. And, as we learned in June, even when injured, he's healthy enough to be a better baseball player than Shea Hillenbrand.

I don't believe Ned made any promises to Hillenbrand other than to pay him the minimum salary for as long as he needed him.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. I dont think Hillenbrand would have signed a minor league deal with the Dodgers if he wasnt promised the opportunity to compete for a starting position.

If you are sold on top prospects, you dont bring in crappy vets and make them win their positions over again...Unless you're the Dodgers..(see Tomko/Billingsley, Nomar/Loney, Gonzo/Kemp) etc.

Brighter days will be upon the Dodgers once the kids are given positions, instead of jacking them around with veteran riff raff.

By the way, Joey, if it helps, yes, I do acknowledge the many differences between Colletti and DePodesta.

140
I'll be in the lodge and I think BH will also be in the lodge tonight. Let me know if you want to meet as I'm on my own tonight.

118. How about a conspiracy theory (of sorts)

But whether Kent would start was not entirely up to him. Because of the possibility of a concussion he had to be cleared by the Dodgers medical staff upon his arrival at the park. So it's unlikely there was any conspiracy at all.

"No, the Dodgers don't hand jobs to rookies and play them for 162 straight games."

Not unless their middle name is Coltrane. In which case, we criticize them for doing it.

139 - He can compete all he wants.

The examples you provide prove my point. Bringing in a veteran doesn't mean that your plan ultimately isn't to play the rookie. The difference is that none of the veterans you just named were DFAed twice in the same season.

I don't want Hillenbrand any more than you, but his signing reflects not wanting Martinez to be a regular for any stretch more than anything. Just as it was last year, when the Dodgers got Lugo when Kent was hurt.

Rookies get what??

Eric the Wilco concert in San Diego was awesome last night. I was expecting alot, and it was better than expected. No one messed with me and my Russell Martin Jack in the Box cup down there which was nice. The crowd was a little mellow, too mellow. I am like come on people, get excited, were at SDSU and I am 36 with a pregnant wife and were showing more passion and excitement than you people....

It was nice to come home to a dodger win as well.

To join in the topic...Laroche will be called up in a few days, what's the big deal?

I side with Jon on the promises made to Hillenbrand. This is a guy who has just about worn out his welcome in baseball; he'd been released by three teams in the past year. He's not in any position to be making playing time demands.

Of course, that didn't stop him from making demands in Anaheim, which is why they got rid of him. But you'd think he would have learned that lesson.

As far as I can tell, LaRoche is 2-9 with
3 BB, 2 SO, and a run scored since he came back.

Jason, sounds good, too bad about the crowd, though. Every time I've seen Wilco the crowd has really been into it. Of course, every time I've seen them has also been on the east coast, where concert crowds are far, far more enthusiastic than on the west coast. I have no idea why that is.

To complete the LaRoche saga, I think he was sent down earlier this season because Betemit was getting more playing time.

If you want to finger a Colletti/veteran nexus that has deprived the team of the opportunity to develop young talent, it's Garciaparra, clearly. Loney had to literally shove Garciaparra off first base, but then Ned moved him to third instead of to the bench. That led to Betemit getting traded, and left LaRoche as a "next year" guy. Once Nomar got hurt, LaRoche had a shot, but then he also got hurt. That's the only way a mook like Hillenbrand ever became a Dodger.

Toy Cannon and BH

I'll go up to Loge for the game as long as there are some seats empty, shouldn't be an issue tonight even though they'll announce 48,000 as the "attendance". I'll be on the field for BP if I'm there in time.

661-992-1435 cell, Bruce

Also remember that when Hillenbrand was signed there was literally no healthy hitters left on the 40 man. If we didn't sign Hillenbrand, we would have had to go with 13 pitchers when Nomar went down, or brought up Wilson Valdez.

I guess I don't have a problem with signing someone like Hillenbrand, a third base fill-in, while LaRoche and Nomar are hurt. I just wish it didn't have to be Hillenbrand. The guy is a first class jerk.

I love his reaction after he hits a line drive right at someone, though. That's exactly how I feel about it.

147 The point is why make the move today when you can make it on Saturday? Give Andy some more at-bats and then play him when he shows up with Delwyn, Hull, Houlton, Abreu, and maybe even Meloan.

164 Because it gives us a better chance of winning baseball games from now through Saturday. And we need to win every single game at this point.

While I'm on it, Abreu is 8-24 with 5 2B and 2 BB with 0 SO since coming back.

Hu is just en fuego or whatever. He's good.

160 Wasn't this around the time Betemit was launching HRs against Atlanta?

Hey, if the kids are healthy, bring 'em up.

Ned Colleti choose to trade our best utility and pitch hitter for a relief pitcher who could easily have been replaced by Hull or Meloan.
He deserves to watch Shea Hillenbrand loft few and far between little singles while throwing softballs to Loney that gravity punishes as they sail across the diamond.
Until Ned stops trading useful chips for players we already have adequate replacements for, each year will be full of tension.

It should irk all Dodger fans that Roberto Hernandez is on the team and Hull isn't. Hull can go two innings and be just as effective as Roberto. Ned is not giving us our best chance for victory. This team is not that good, it needs every little advantage it can squeeze on the roster.

Paul Shuey managed to survive nearly a week after the 30 run game, but has been DFA'd. He'd be the perfect complement for Roberto in our pen.

Ned Colleti choose to trade our best utility and pitch hitter

Not to mention the team leader in both patience and power, two things Ned doesn't value and/or doesn't know how to measure.

170 --- It would irk me, but I'm trying to maintain my sanity. I go in the other room and stick my fingers in my ears when things like Hernandez pitching or Martinez hitting for Loney happen.

156 - jason, I went to the Wilco show in Santa Barbara on Sunday......just an amazing show. The audience was extremely mellow throughout, though they did perk up some after Jeff Tweedy chided them a bit. I went with my 21 year old son, who must have been one of the youngest people there. Tomorrow night I go to the Wilco show at the Greek with my wife who has never heard Wilco in her life.....we'll see how that goes.

Did I already ask you if you're related to Al?

"Until Ned stops trading useful chips for players we already have adequate replacements for, each year will be full of tension".

well said. I agree.

159 yeah Eric it was a Monday night so that may have been part of it. I saw Bob Dylan and Tom Petty at SDSU and both crowds were mellow too versus shows a few nights later in LA for both. It's a San Diego thing I guess..

174
That is kind of surprising. A lot of people at UCSB are fans of Wilco, I would assume more of them would have been there.

172 And he is certainly burning up the American League. But then I should never look at what the player is actually doing, I should only look at what we should have gotter for such a talented player.

In New York
.200/.265/.422, with 18 strike outs and 4 walks in 49 plate appearences. And he does have 3 home runs too.

Should they have kept Wilson, it sure looks like he would have played a lot for the Dodgers this month but if he kept putting up numbers like this, how valuable was he going to be during the next off-season and beyond.

I just wish we could look at his production not just his potential,

As I think about it I don't so much judge a player as being good or bad, I just have preferences as to who plays. I don't like Pierre in the lineup because I would rather watch Kemp and not because of a stat(s).

I have enjoyed watching Hillenbrand play because he attacks the ball and has played good third base but mostly because there is nobody I would rather see play third base for now.

When LaRoche is healthy and it looks like he can stay healthy until the September call up date, I would rather watch him play over a rental. I would rather watch Abreu play than LaRoche.

Matinez is the utility player and if he were to be the temporary third baseman the Dodgers would not have a utility player unless.

There are many perspectives as to who should play.

176 - There were some young people there, but the majority of the audience were in their 30's or 40's. Maybe it's because UCSB isn't back in session yet.

174 No! He is my dad! How do you know him? Small world eh? We just golfed last weekend together at River Ridge in Oxnard.

Yes, Tweedy began ridiculing the audience a bit..It was such a nice show. It was nice to finish (or almost finish) with California Stars under the full moon. Have fun at the Greek! I am jealous. I would be going, but actually will be heading to Palm Springs with Dad for a Golf Tourney.

179
That or they were probably too drunk by the time the show started.

Just announced by FSN Prime Ticket:

Tonight, after Dodgers Live is the premiere of a new series:

Brett Tomko, After the Bigs

It's a Wilco concert not a baseball game. That concert was literally down the street from my apartment... so anyway, what's the big deal with not being raucous for an acoustic music concert?

Oh also, my wife has heard some Wilco in the car etc with me, but wasn't a huge fan and she loved it. We were also in row 10 so that helps..

I prefer DeWit over LaRoche. A rule 8 violation.

The timeline for recent Dodger third basemen:

8/4 - First twinge of Nomar's calf, as reported by Tony Jackson
8/7 - Hillenbrand released from Portland
8/9 - LaRoche placed on minor-league DL
8/10 - Hillenbrand signed to Las Vegas
8/14 - Nomar placed on 15-day DL for the calf injury
8/23 - LaRoche activated

It's reasonable speculation that Dodger brass knew that Nomar's calf was bothering him before LaRoche was injured, thus when LaRoche was DLed, there needed to be a 3B alternative ushered in with urgency. I doubt it's a conspiracy against LaRoche. Nine days of "rehab" at Vegas before September callups for LaRoche seems pretty reasonable to me.

177
His production was just fine. If you want to ignore it fine but don't say it didn't exist to suit your arguement.

Just as a pinch hitter he would have had more value then the difference between Proctor and Meloan/Hull.

When was the last time anyone got a key pinch hit since he was traded?

182 I thought Brett was gonna be the next Bob Ross on PBS?

---

Meanwhile, personally, I'm just trying to be excited about the Sept 1 callups. We'll finally get to see Meloan, and I'm sure Andy will be there by then, and so on. Hopefully adding Hull and Meloan will finally make the Dodgers less tempted to use Hernandez, and more tempted to just have him be a coach in the bullpen since that seems to be about all he's good for these days. But anyway, I look forward to this coming weekend.

177 More valuable than the guys hitting .217/.245/.304 or .190/.243/.223 for the Dodgers.

187 Martinez? Didn't he drive in some runs last week as a PH? Gonzo had a key pinch hit in the Mets series too, I thought, though maybe it was in one of the games they lost. (Certainly not Saenz.)

180 - I know him from work.....we're in the camera club together. California Stars was perfect with the full moon rising just to the right of the stage at County Bowl. I imagine the crowd at the Greek will be a bit more energized. My son and I saw them there two years ago and it was a great show. My lasting memory of that show was Tweedy lifting his son, who must have been around five, onto the stage and holding him. In SB on Sunday I saw a little boy skateboarding back and forth behind the stage during the opening act. I figured it must have been one of Tweedy's sons.

FWIW: Ramon Martinez has 5 SF this year, one behind the Dodgers' co-leaders, Kent and Ethier. Yesterday's was pretty important, but hurt his OBP.

Las Vegan always knows the score

Widmer is brains behind mlb.com's Gameday

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Each correspondent, or stringer, is paid $100 per big league game -- and lesser amounts for Triple-A contests and others -- to punch in coded information for Gameday, mlb.com's live pitch-by-pitch account of big league games. <<

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184 - I may have exaggerated slightly. My wife has heard Sky Blue Sky in the car with me and thought it was too mellow.

godvls that's great. Have fun! I know my dad is so passionate about his camera. It's become an obsession. He has always been into it, but seems to have kicked it up a few notches in the last 5 years.....

193
I'd love to do that when I retire in 5 years but I'd have to move to Silverlake or Glendale or Sunland.

183 Acoustic? I wouldn't call what Nels Cline was doing acoustic. But I know what you mean....it's not exactly punk rock. Speaking of which, the John Doe show on Saturday night was incredible. I've seen X numberous times over the past 30 years, but I'd never seen John solo. Great show, great guest musicians.....Dave Alvin, Kathleen Edwards, Cindy Wasserman. I met Mr. Doe after the show. What a nice, down to earth guy.

187 Ramon is 0-7 with 2 BB, 2 RBI as a PH this year. He grounded in a run PHing for Loney in one of those Met losses. One of those BBs led off the bottom of the 11th and led to the winning run against the Cubs, on JP's walkoff HBP. Ramon's clutch moments have been in spot starts or after PRing for Kent.

197
Marty and I are jealous.

It is a bit strange that the team name for the Nationals when shortened is Nat's which is the name of the bugs that used to torment me when I played baseball in DC.

198 is a reply to 190 not 187

199- About John Doe?

198 Ah okay, thanks. Was too lazy to look it up.

All I know is Saenz hasn't been the PH he'd been in the past, which was probably another reason we picked up Sweeney.

199 Me too.

John Doe was awesome live when I saw him solo, too. As well as at the X shows, and the Knitters. Always a treat.

Hey, I know I'm not winning the Wilson Betemit should he be here or not argument. I guess I feel (for really some unknown reason, probably some personality defect) to play contrarian here sometimes and try to present arguments that I think are reasonable and factually based.

Maybe it is me in the sense that I don't really appreciate the Adam Dunn style of player. I've been trying to think of the last Dodger who fit that mode, low average, strikeouts and walks and hits homers, and I can't think of that guy. Maybe Karros comes the closest.

Nomar went on the DL a week or two too late, he didn't get hurt until after the trade deadline, he had backup in Loney, Betemit and LaRoche but by the time he needed it, he didn't have the other two guys available.

187 The real answer is actually fairly damning reinforcement to ToyCannon's point. On 8/19 Jeff Kent PH for Loney in the 8th with runners on first and second and walked to load the bases. Ramon M., controversially left in to hit, collected that 2-run single for the tying and go ahead runs, leading to a Saito save.

205
We seem to have a large contingent of X/John Doe fans which surprises me given the youth of many of you. I understand El Lay and Marty and Myself, but hey X stopped recording before some of you were born. I would have to hazard a guess that your all Blaster fans.

Anyone heading over to the Santa Monica Pier to catch the Los Lobos show to close out the summer series this Thursday?

Still have 3 free tickets available tonight in the lodge. You don't even have to sit with me if that is what is holding you back.
Email molokai@yahoo.com if your interested.

Just got back from the Stadium tour with my four year old and I have a funny Derek Lowe incident to report. The climax of the tour is a visit to the dugout (where Andre Ethier was being interviewed). While we were on the field, we stumbled onto some kind of contest between Lowe and Steve Lopez, the LA Times columnist. It was a charity thing which involved hitting a golf ball (using irons, not woods) from home plate over the fence. Neither of them could quite get the ball far enough, so they kept moving the tees closer and closer to the pitchers mound. Finally Lowe nailed a beautiful drive over the center field fence. Lowe turns to the empty press box, raises his hands in triumph, and doffs his cap. All the boys, including my own, were going crazy watching this. Lopez then follows with his own drive over the right center field wall.

The tour guide, who was well intentioned if not well informed, made a very strange comment as part of the tour. He said that O'Malley had to choose between SF and LA for his destination when he decided to leave Brooklyn, and he made it sound like O'Malley essentially flipped a coin in making that decision. I've never heard this before, and in fact it contradicts all that I've read or seen about how the Dodgers left NYC.

Has anyone heard this story before? I hate to think that a Dodger tour guide was making up a story just to pass the time, so maybe there is something to it.

ToyCannon, didn't hear too much of the Blasters but I am a HUGE fan of X. I listened to their first CDs a couple of years ago. And yes, I was born right around the time "Wild Gift" came out.

208- Unfortunately, I not part of the Dodger Thoughts youth brigade. I attended my first X show at the Hong Kong Cafe around '78/'79. I liked the Blasters too, but not as much as X (or Los Lobos, for that matter). One of the saddest sights I've seen at a concert was all of the abuse and crap thrown at Los Lobos when they opened for The Clash II back in '84 at the Long Beach Arena. All the "punks" were throwing beer and garbage at the band and chanting for the The Clash to come on. Los Lobos didn't deserve that kind of treatment.

I'd love to see Los Lobos at the pier, but I have a late afternoon root canal scheduled and I don't think I'm going to be in the mood to fight rush hour traffic to the westside. I noticed that Dave Alvin is playing in San Luis Obispo in October. I'm going to see if I can meet up with my son in SLO for that one.

174 UCSB doesn't start again for another month. Summer session doesn't count - very low enrollment, relatively.

208 Yeah, it's definitely cool if some of those born after X's initial heyday are fans now, but as a 37 year old I was around the first time 'round, though a little late to the scene (I think More Fun in the New World was the first one I bought). Then they sorta broke up and I didn't get a chance to see them live 'til they started recording again.

214 - John Doe played a blistering version of The New World on Saturday. He just about blew the roof off the place. He closed the show with a killer cover of Gimmee Shelter.

210 - My wife and boys and I went on the stadium tour a month or so ago and were told the same story about O'Malley flipping a coin between LA and SF. I hadn't heard that one before either.

I should note my musical taste is very uncommon for my generation. Most people my age are all over Fall Out Boy and junk like that.

Wilco, which I also enjoy, and Modest Mouse are closer to the music of my generation, I guess.

30 years later, history repeats itself, The Bronx is Burning Redux.

Actually, with today's win, the Gulf Coast League Championship will be determined by a three game playoff between the Yankees and the Dodgers. The Dodgers had the best record in the league and thereby was awarded a bye, the Yankees won their one game playoff game so here we are with the final two teams.

With Jacksonville needing to start winning every game, despite having the best overall record in the Southern League, the Suns may finish out of the playoffs.

Thus, the only Dodger minor league team to reach playoffs this year may well be their GCL team.

I had some of you guys linked to Neil Diamond but I guess I was wrong.

New post up top.