I been Norman Maliered, Maxwell Taylored,
I been John O'Hara'd McNamara'd,
I been Rolling Stoned and Beatled 'till I'm blind,
I been Hillenbranded and nearly branded
A communist 'cause I'm left-handed,
That's the hand I use,
Well, never mind!

What do you do when you're Hillenbranded and you know your the 3b?

What the "Rule1!" is wrong with Dodger mgmt?

LAT-ed!!!!

Today was probably McDizzle's last outing.

3IP 3H 0ER 1bb 5k

his AA numbers conclude at:

52.2IP 1.71 ERA

7.17 H/9IP

2.73 bb/9IP

10.93 k/9IP

.85 hr/9IP

4:1 k:bb ratio

those numbers are pretty awesome.

Maybe Hu has more upside than LaRoche.
Maybe he's going to be a superstar.
Let's find out.

another positive from AA

Blake Dewitt in 170 AA ABs (age 21 season), posted a .488 slg% with an ISOp of .194. He also posted a really good k rate of 12.9% of his ABs.

to put that into perspective, Laroche (age 22 season) last year slugged .483 with an ISOp of 174 and a k rate of 13.9% of his ABs.

But I guess there is that pesky little thing called plate discipline.

Maybe Hu has more upside than LaRoche.

I don't see it.

From 2006-2007, only 6 out of 179 players with at least 800 total PA have a worse OBP than Shea Hillenbrand's .300 mark.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/n224

Shea has hit .270/.300/.413 over that span, good for an 83 OPS+. He has been designated for assignment twice, one of those times directly following a fight with the manager (in Toronto).

Yet the organization sees it fit to have Shea as our starting 3B while Andy LaRoche plays the final 4 AAA games in Salt Lake City.

"I" hope LaRoche "gets" called "up" today.

I think it's a collective we all hope La Roche gets called up, but reading Jons latest post I guess not today, I swear I don't get it. You think it's one of those things were they know something we don't? |giving benefit of the doubt|

I sort of LAT'd myself, too.

McDizzle? I like it, though I wasn't at the last meeting for the official Dodger Minor Leaguer Nickname Committee, so I didn't get a vote. I guess calling him "Old" doesn't work.

176 Oh I think so too, or at least could see that. I just wonder why he gets the call without LaRoche, since the Dodgers have more of a need at 3rd than at SS, but obviously this should be moot in a day anyway.

But the series vs. SLC is more important than the series vs the Padres. Don't you get it??

I didn't anticipate the Dodgers would be hillbranded for life.

+e.

8

yup, when I looked up Shea Hillenbrands OBP #'s it wasn't exactly comforting.

9 I just wanted to continue the unnecessary quotes trend with that sentence. :)

Cycle alert cancelled in Anaheim.

Stand down.

The I {heart} (Ken) Huckaby Club will be very upset Chad Moeller got the call-up.

Well, I asked Tony Jackson for his insight on the lack of a LaRoche call up today, see if he has any insider reasoning.

this whole La Roche thing made me forget, Jonathan Meloan is finally here!!! you gotta believe he'll end up pitching tonight right? not unless he pitched yesterday.

16
I never stood up.

20
It was in the previous thread. It was right in the middle of a debate.

I still don't get Hu over Abreu, on a baseball level.

If the Dodgers needed a SS, I wouldn't have a problem so much. However, Furcal is one of the everydayiest players on the team.

Plus, it's not like Abreu couldn't also be called up. In fact, Abreu is already on the 40-man, although that's more of a minor point.

I think this 3 or 4-day wait for Abreu is a direct response from Abreu's injury when he was demoted to AAA earlier in the season. The club has to still believe Abreu was faking; otherwise there is no justification for him not being up today.

22 By "justification", I meant "reason".

hillenbrand will see 9 sliders from pv tonight.

hillenbrand will see 9 sliders from pv tonight

http://tinyurl.com/33hp4q

I'm trying to breathe deeply, but part of that last thread got me unusually worked up. The kgibson types I can safely ignore, it's the articulate trolls that get to me.
Give me a Saturday with the wife and kids over an inconsequential debate any day.

As I just said on the last post, caught without knowing this was up, LaRoche would fill a much more immediate need and should have been here yesterday. I was only touting Hu for the future if he can hit "SS ave."

Just read through the last wing of the last thread, and it reminded me so much of the movie I just took my wife to see, "Two Days in Paris." Except without the subtitles.

Jon, you're a patient man. Especially for a guy in the Valley where it's 110 degrees.

25

I don't get it.

I was just hoping we got out of the last thread without a nuclear war.

You guys have been feeling the heat out there, haven't you. Glad to report New England is going through what feels like gorgeous early autumn weather--70-80 with low humidity 50f at night.

The Dodger management has, several times this season, done what many on DT had been asking for - but very, very late. Calling up Loney and Kemp from Vegas at least a month after we'd been asking for them, and then playing them regularly once they were on the team (two months later - if they are even doing that with Kemp and Ethier at this point is hard to tell after two consecutive games only) - are the most obvious.

I suppose they might claim that throwing these "rookies" in early to play every day might not have worked as well as gradually working them in. But mostly it looks to all of us as if the management is fearful, overly conservative, and just plain wrong in prefering decaying veterans even after the young players have proved themselves.

Does anyone have both the skills and the time to go through the season game by game and apply the stats for the guys who might have played to estimate how many more games we would have won? Even if it were just 5 more games (and it might well have been 8), we'd be sitting in first place now.

Or is this just too iffy a proposition to extrapolate?

33 It's great isn't it? If you happen to be in Boston, we should catch a game sometime.

33 if that's 31, I agree.

34 I usually go to the Fours or to the Marriot on Saturday nights or Sunday afternoons. If you want to meet up to watch a game sometime in Boston, you can reach me at jnucleo(at)yahoo.com - James

I agree. It was almost criminal that Loney wasn't our starting everyday first baseman from day one of this season, and that alone probably cost us at least 5 games.

Colletti and Little, in deferring to the "safe" choice of using aging vets past their prime vs young players like Loney and Kemp who are already better than these "big names" have cost us many games this season.

I wish McCourt had stayed with Depo.

I feel like going all JoeyP over at ItD on why La Roche isn't here yet, but I really feel we should give them the benefit of the doubt, veremos.

Jon gave Colletti too much credit in thinking that Hillenbrand was just a 2-week stop gap until LaRoche was ready.

Ned's all about PVL.

As Regairfield correctly put it in the last thread, the Dodgers deserve every type of bade thing to happen to them when they make dumb decisions.

This club just doesnt "deserve" to win.

I understand that management doesn't want call up the complete Vegas team too early, otherwise they would have to fill those spots with other players (guys like Gorman Erickson and Chales Dasni, who are currently on the Vegas roster). The GCL season is over, so those guys should be available to take over, but outside of Erickson, I guess airfare was too expensive. Thus they called up only a few guys to play minor strategic roles (a pinch runner, a 3rd catcher, and long reliever). I'd love to think Meloan might pitch as something more than a long reliever, but I'm guessing he is viewed as nothing more than a blowout pitcher and Roberto's towel boy.

36--Dont forget using Tomko/Hendrickson earlier in the year and letting Billingsley rot in the pen.

Same thing will happen next year with all the PVL accumulated in the staff (Loaiza, Lowe, Penny, Schmidt), should McDonald/Orenduff/Kuo be deserving of some starts.

What are the thoughts on McDonald's short performance? Just a few innings to finish the year? Or is he being Houlton'd? Houlton pitched 2 days ago, for 3.1 innings. Why he's being called up when he essentially shouldn't pitch over the weekend anyways, I have no idea.

6--DeWitt had 5bbs in 154Abs at AA.
He's not a prospect IMO.

41. It seems that they are trying to conserve McDonald's innings since his velocity has dropped. They may have noticed an even more dramatic drop in his velocity and pulled him early....who knows??

42

he is definitely a prospect. its foolish to say he isn't. Is he a top prospect? a top 5 organizational prospect? no he's not and won't be until he improves his plate discipline.

42. I think DeWitt is much like Nomar in that he swings a lot but makes contact a lot. He's more of a line-drive hitter like Loney with less plate discipline. He will play in the majors I think but his defense could hurt his chances.

42

I don't want you to do anything rash but Dewitt is more of a prospect then Justin Orenduff.

41. i seem to remember some concern over fatigue with mcdonald

42. that made me smile - you don't walk, nothing else matters

The Dodgers' have another minor league affiliate in the minors after all. Because the weird way that the playoffs work in the minors, Inland Empire is in the playoffs, I think because they were in second place in the first half and Lancaster won both halves. And Ivan DeJesus is hurt, so Jaime Pedroza will take his place through the end of the season and presumably in the playoffs.

46--How do you figure?
Orenduff's had more success in the minor leagues than Blake Dewitt.

Dewitt has not done anything his entire career.

Orenduff put up great numbers until he got hurt. Maybe he's not recovered and never will, but DeWitt's a never was. At least Orenduff is a has-been.

43 ,47 Yes, he's fatigued and they want his workload to be light, but why are they even starting him in the first place then? Are the extra 3 innings going to help him? The Suns have already missed the playoffs, so they have no real need to win games, so that shouldn't have been the reason he started.

38 , I think 39 is closer to the truth, plus they want to see what kind of shape Nomar's in. And, for that matter, what kind of shape LaRoche is in.

It's a bit contradictory, some of the positions I'm seeing here. We need LaRoche up, now, because he's going to help us catch San Diego/Arizona/Philly? I don't see it. I love the guy's potential, but he's not the savior, and I wouldn't want him coming here thinking that's his role.

Que sera sera... LaRoche will be on the Dodgers within a week, and depending on this that and the other thing, he might start some games. Or not. Face it, this team is not a playoff team unless it gets very lucky. Based on the merits, the four NL entries should be NY, Philadelphia, Chicago and San Diego. We'd be three-and-out against any of those.

The thing about PVL is, most of them know not to get into a negative emotional spiral when they or the team is down. I'm sure Kemp feels like crap about his mistakes. I don't necessarily think Little is judging him; he might be just trying to remove some of the pressure from him, let him see himself as just one part of the team, take the world off his shoulders.

re: dewitt
im a bit higher on him than most - imo i think the combination of power and contact is the best thing to see in a young hitter, or any really. isn't that what scouts look for - consistent, hard contact? you do that, pitchers will respect you and youll get enough walks to post a healthy obp. (even Nomar has a career .364 OBP)

38 - I offered a complete mea culpa to you in the comments of the last thread :)

James McDonalad's on our farm
E.I.E.I.O.
And on the farm he racks up Ks
E.I.E.I.O.
With a strike out here and a strike out there
here a strike, there a strike
everywhere a strikeout
James McDonald's on our farm
E.I.E.I.O.

Can't McDougall play third in LV?

This club just doesnt "deserve" to win

I've felt that way since the day they hired Nedusa.

38

I felt like that yesterday myself, in '04 when we lost in the playoffs I was still very proud of them this year SO FAR it's been kind of frustrating.

49

I don't feel like arguing over career wise production but going forward, Dewitt has a better chance then Orenduff to do something useful in the majors.

Dewitt in his age 21 season, is developing power. The evidence is there, as you can see the power comparisons to Laroche when he was in AA last year. Now that Dewitt has the power thing going, the high contact rate going, I think the next thing he will learn is to be more selective because he should be comfortable in the future in batting with 2 strikes on him. I think Dodger management is going to stress that for him for next season.

As far as Orenduff goes, he's already 24 with lingering health issues. He still hasn't figured out a way to get lefties out and his stuff hasn't progressed from when he was drafted. He doesn't really look like a starting pitcher to me.

49 Dewitt is younger and in the same league, so any success that he may have will force him to be labeled the better prospect. I don't really care for Dewitt (I personally would much prefer Orenduff). He doesn't have plus power, isn't patient at all, not a gold glove defender as I remember (certainly at 2B, where he'd be a far better prospect). I personally much prefered Denker, who was virtually the same age, had similar power numbers, and could actually take a walk. If Denker was regarded as never will be, then in my estimation, Dewitt should have the same tag.

52

heh, same argument for dewitt except you were more concise then me.

what is the scouting buzz on pedroza, btw, has anyone heard anything good or his he another pioneer league mirage?

61

I know nothing about him.

Do we have anyone in the minors who could be a Matt Holliday?

Is Kemp potentially that good?

55 So can Abreu, Valdez, and Maza. I'm guessing they just didn't want to bus anyone new to the game. As is, the team has 12 position players (they'll be playing the rest of their games with the DH), 3 of which are catchers. I guess they wanted to keep some depth for whatever reason.

That, and it's should be pretty clear that they see Young, Laroche, Lindsey, and Abreu as pinch runners, defensive replacements, pinch hitters, injury replacements, and nothing more while in the playoff hunt. They decided Hu was the best one to use for this weekend, presumably because of his speed/defense/health combo. I don't expect him to get one AB until well after the rest of the infantry has arrived.

51 I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to catch SD/AZ/Philly, especially with a month to go.

I just think the sooner they put their best players on the field, the better. I don't think there is much question that LaRoche is, at worst, at least equal to Hillenbrand. Plus, he has a chance to get better.

Get LaRoche some experience this month against major league pitching. At worst, it helps him for 2008. At best, he helps the Dodgers win for 2007.

One bullet dodged for 2008:

http://tinyurl.com/2hbo5j

Jaime Pedroza-
UC Riverside: 237 ABs, .325/.397/.570
Ogden: 211 ABs, .360/.413/.569

Apparently he doesn't care what type of material his bat is made of, or who his competition is, as he hits about the same. That seems odd to me, but both teams play in a dry, desert environment, so I'm guessing there's some inflation. I know nothing about his defense, but he has to be a decent SS to still be there I would assume, although he made 17 errors for Ogden, and 27 for UCR, so I'm not sure. And he's a year younger than Dewitt (not sure what relevance that has, sorry).

OK, the Roger Clemens AT&T dropped call commercial is pretty funny.

Hu, Meloan, and Moeller have been added to the roster, but it doesn't show any additional roster moves. Wolf, Tsao, and Brazoban will probably just be placed on the 60-day DL, but are still listed as 15-day.

On Gameday, the computers picked up a return throw from the catcher instead of a pitch by Byung-Hyun Kim. The pitch speed was 36 mph and had a break of 46"!

hopefully Josh Rawitch has some more insite on why La Roche isn't with the big club yet

70
Are you sure that wasn't a pitch from Kim...?

68

the new Burger King commercial were the Dad Hamburger can't go inside his daughters room gives me a fair # of chuckles as well.

6 innings of 1 hit and efficient ball for Joel Hanrahan tonite.

I'll precog his after game quote: "It is easier to pitch against the Giants at RFK than the Rockies at Coors Field."

72
It looked like an eephus pitch with its trajectory. And the release point was completely different.

I suppose it could have been Kim tossing a ball to the umpire to get a new one.

Late lineup tonight. I'm holding out hope it's because LaRoche is making his way down I-15.

I've yet to see Chin-lung Hu play short stop so I'm pretty stoked about him as well

May you be forced to live in interesting times in Boston.

76 "Late lineup tonight. I'm holding out hope it's because LaRoche is making his way down I-15."

Yeah, LaRoche is playing third base and batting fifth.

In Salt Lake City.

From the latest "Ask BA", Bills & Broxton were named the 4th best 23-and-under pitching tandem in MLB:

"1. Tim Lincecum/Matt Cain, Giants
They get the slightest of edges over the Yankees pair below.
2. Joba Chamberlain/Phil Hughes, Yankees
Ian Kennedy will join the discussion after his callup tomorrow.
3. Felix Hernandez/Brandon Morrow, Mariners
The King is still the best pitcher on this list.
4. Chad Billingsley/Jonathan Broxton, Dodgers
They'll be Los Angeles' No. 1 starter and closer in the near future. "

http://tinyurl.com/2motxy

Bob's nemesis, Rocky Cherry, is making his Orioles debut at Fenway Park right now. He is not the very interesting one, though.

77 .79 Well, since Hu is up, might as well play him at 3B tonight!

Calling up LaRoche makes too much sense, so no way were we going to do it.

I'm sitting here, just sitting here waiting for 10:10 pm on the east coast and getting psyched for a D's game. And I realize I will probably be humiliated by Jake the snake.

But I realize I enjoy these games with 4 or 5 homegrown Dodgers even when we lose.
This is encouraging>

I hate to admit to not knowing something, since I usually like to present a persona of know-it-allism, but what is PVL?

There's always USC v. Idaho if the Dodger game becomes unpalatable.

85 Proven Veteran Leader

85 Or, in the case of some, Produces Very Little.

85 Or, Preferred Versus LaRoche.

I'll stop now.

The Tennessee / Cal game is quite high scoring.

I just read the previous thread. Things got a little tense around here this afternoon. PDH5204 likes to hear the sound of his own typewritter.

Wish I was going to be around tonight to watch the game but going to a Russian themed Lobor Day Party instead. There is going to be a ice luge. I guess you pour vodka in the top and hold your glass below and it comes out ice cold. This could be dangerous.

Shouldn't a Russian themed Labor Day party be on May 1?b

Tejada shouldn't have slid into first there. Still, an outstandingly interesting play by Pedroia.

I swear, this team drives me nuts sometimes.

Furcal, SS
Pierre, CF
Ethier, RF
Kent, 2B
Old Fart, LF
Martin, C
Loney, 1B
Cardboard Cutout, 3B
Lowe, P

Wow -- Buckholz young.

What a great play by Pedroia.
6 more outs to go.

91 . Glasses? We don't need no stinking glasses.

Rawitch says Wells starts serving his suspension tonight and that more help may "possibly" arrive when the minor league season ends.

No Andy La Roche! Man, they always surprise me.

77 take a look
http://tinyurl.com/2nyev7

Since the last thread died and there was no mention of a new thread on top and I missed seeing this one...and...anyway here it is again.

I say that Kent is the best all around hitter on this club. Against poorer pitching, Kemp is just as big a threat at the plate as Kent. But,in the play-offs, in a big situation, I'll take Kent over any other player on the team.
I cannot get many Dodger games on TV but I can tell you that when I watched the game against the Mets last(?)weekend I knew that Kemp was over matched when he pinched hit against Orlando Hernandez. I really could not figure out why he was used in that spot.
I wanted to make a comment on this site to say that Hernandez was too clever for Kemp and probably strikeout b4 he came to the plate, but my computer was not on.

As far as Kemp's base running, he needs help. Fortunately it's available from the base coaches if he would use them. I saw that hit and run play with Kemp taking off from 1st and doing his musical chairs thing with 2nd base. It was so painful to watch that I do not understand why he should not be criticized for it...not to mention being picked off 3rd in the same game. I would never use him to pinch run unless there were 2 outs.
(At this point in his career)

101

I agree. He looks over matched to me all the time. I think he's going to strike out every time he pinch hits. I mean, the guys only hitting .325/.361/.517 as a 22 year old. Do you think he'll ever figure it out?

102 Indiana Jon

LOL. Some people...

Clay Buchholz was drafted #42 overall by the Red Sox in 2005, just two picks after the Hochevar pick.

from Diamond...

Andy LaRoche and Tony Abreu were not promoted because according to Little, the Dodgers wanted them to have more minor league at-bats after recently returning from injuries.

Jonathan Meloan mentioned his preference for being a starting pitcher down the line in his career.

I am beginning to believe that almost everything people commonly believe to be true about Matt Kemp, is actually false.

Matt Kemp against the best pitchers in baseball+, 2007:
(+that is, anyone who's having a really outstanding year, plus future Hall of Famers)

Chris Young, 0-3
Billy Wagner, 2-4
John Smoltz, 1-3, 2 RB1
Roy Oswalt, 0-1
John Maine, 2-4, HR, BB, 2 RBI
Randy Johnson 2-2
Aaron Harang 0-3
Tom Glavine, 1-1, HR, 2 RBI
Roy Halladay 1-3
Trevor Hoffman 0-1

Totals: .360 BA, .385 OBP, .600 SLG

85 I admit I didn't know what PVL was and didn't have the to ask. Thank you.

Lord--no Kemp!

Probably Very Lame?

98. that more help may "possibly" arrive when the minor league season ends.

I interpret that to mean no Andy LaRoche until Tuesday. I also interpret that to mean even after he arrives he isn't likely to play much unless or until the Dodgers are eliminated. We're going to stick with Hillenbrand and his PVL.

1 out to go at Fenway.

101 - There was a New post up top note in comment 174 of the last thread.

Again, I never said that Kemp should not be criticized for a baserunning mistake. I don't know how what I wrote gets read that way. I explicitly said he should be evaluated by the same standard that Kent or any Dodger is - in a big-picture way - but right now, the standards are very different. Is that really so hard to see from my last post?

He got it!

Jonathan Meloan mentioned his preference for being a starting pitcher down the line in his career.

I heard part of his interview with Rick "tell me the score" Monday

nasty hook to K markakis.

Wow strikes 1 and esp. 3 to Markakis were awesome pitchers, esp. coming from an exhausted kid who had been losing the zone earlier in the inning.

Gee, I sure hope the National media picks this up. It's a great story -- I'd hate it to get ignored. :)

Yes someone should alert those fellows at ESPN. I find their Red Sox coverage lacking these days.

94. This is the lineup I was expecting to see tonight. I actually expected LuGo would play both Friday and Saturday. When he wasn't in last night's lineup I figured Little would want his PVL in there against Peavy and I'm not expecting him to play on Sunday (day game after a night game). That meant either Kemp or Ethier would have to sit. I figured it would be the righthanded hitting Kemp. Man, this is a frustrating team to find yourself rooting for.

If history is any judge, the Dodgers will sign Clay Buchholz to a minor league deal in 2019, and he will be a pleasant surprise!

107.
Well, I thought PVL was some kind of sprinkler pipe. I guess it's not.

Oh dear. I'm on DTV and these Padres announcers aren't much fun at all.
Wow Jale gets as much lattitude as I've seen from any crew this year.

119 Make that Jake instead of Jale. And that walk comically interupted an announcer jag.

Humorous strike zone for the Peavester tonight.

Well, the announcer noticed the catcher was setting up well outside of the plate yet getting the call. I've also noticed this low as well. Peavey has the largest strike zone i've seen this year. I hope Lowe gets it too.

Hillenbrand simply doesn't walk, & he's looked horrible these last 2 games, ugh.

Yahoo hasn't acknowledged the top of the 9th in Boston yet.

Gonzales hits a homerun. Unfortunately, it's Adrian Gonzales, and he plays for the Padres.

124 Whats up in Boston,Bob.

Yeah these San Diego announcers are truly hateful. I have to turn off the sound until they get smacked.
Thats the only time they could possibly be listenable. I know I could listen to Vin if I was the worst enemy and losing. I have no question.

126 - no hitter by the BoSox. Between that and App St beating Michigan, I'd caution tuning into ESPN tonight.

126 I think I'm in the minority in that I actually like Matt Vasgersian. However, tonight's lead Padres' announcer is Steve Quis, a local sports anchor and part-time fill-in when Vasgersian does MLB or NFL for Fox, or blackjack, etc for GSN.

in all fairness, the Ump seems to be calling the outside pitches for both Pitchers.

is kevin machale sitting behind home plate? if so i'm gonna hurl...

128
So you're really Tom Hoffarth is what you're saying?

131 I'm waaaay off the wall!

If Vasgersian ever became the primary announcer for the Dodgers, I would never have the sound on when he was calling the game. If I saw him on the street, I would turn my back on him.

David Wells looking SO California.

110 Jon Weisman
First let me say that in the other thread there was someone who got way out of line and his comments had a rather distasteful way of stating his points.

I think that the only controversial thing that I said is that I prefer to see Kent hitting against a tough pitcher in a clutch situation than Kemp. Some have already challenged that.

If Kent had done the musical chairs at 2nd base like Kemp, he too would have been ridiculed, especially in front of a NY crowd. But, in the big picture we know from his long history that would be an unusual occurrence. With Kemp, however, with his short history it makes you wonder about his fundamentals.

133 Is it because he sounds like Shaggy (from Scooby Doo, not Mr. Boombastic), or because of his style of shouting classic rock lyrics into his HR calls?

I can see how he can get annoying, but most of the time I think he's funny.

Bob if you don't mind me asking, what's Pierres "alert status"

63 -- About whether we have anybody who could be as good as Matt Holliday, yeah, we have a whole lot of guys like that. Holliday was pretty unimpressive for a good part of his minor league career. Take a look at his line in the Double A Southern League at age 22: .276/.375/.391. Matt Kemp was a year younger when he hit .327/.402/.527 in the same league. Not surprisingly, Holliday had to repaet Double A the following year, but Colorado moved their Double A affiliate to the more hitter-friendly Texas League. That year, Holliday hit .253/.313/.395 in 522 AB's, so both his batting average and his walk rate declined from the previous year despite the fact he was repeating Double A.

Wow, Pierre just stole second, standing up. That is the first time I've ever seen that.

See update to this post above.

135 - It's nothing personal. You said, "It was so painful to watch that I do not understand why he should not be criticized for it." My response was to that.

Tha looked like Juan Pierre trying the throw out Juan Pierre.

Can anyone name a Matt Kemp baserunning blunder that occurred before August?

Ethier just violated Rule 1

Absolutely no way he swung.

Huh. Coming into the game, the Dodgers were 5th in the league in stolen bases, but only 22nd in runs scored.

Weird.

Apparently Pierre is the one who ought to be up in clutch at bats, against the league's best pitcher. Who'd have thunk it?

106 Thanks for pulling that together Eric. Kemp homered off Smoltz. Do you have to recompute your totals?

127 Ok, I admit it. I thought Appalachian State beating Michigan was a joke.

Then I looked at Google News.

Holy cow!

141

the throw there catcher made was laughable also.

137
There's no alert in place for Juan Pierre.

Jon, I know Tony Jackson and others have reported that Loaiza will start Tuesday at Wrigley, but today's Dodger Report in the Times said Loaiza will make his Dodger debut Monday.

Adventures at Third Base, a three part act in re PVL

151
I saw that report last night.

He did not swing.

Yeah, Pierre's about the only one who seems to have Peavy figured out tonight. Going against Peavy the Dodgers don't need yet more handicaps with bad calls from the umps. I don't blame Ethier for his reaction at all. That was a home town call, pure and simple. This could be a 1-0 game in the 9th.

Okay, my dinner's burning. Back later!

Pythagoras is looming over Chase Field. The 8-0 AZ lead is down to 8-3.

help me out. my wife thinks brian giles is wearing an earring. ii don't know, or care, but she seems intrigued. anybody know one way or another?

About the update above, McDonald, after pitching only 3 innings today, could easily take Wells' start. Maybe he pitched those 3 innings to keep sharp for his promised debut. Like I said earlier, if they were being careful with him, he would have been shut down, and the Suns are no longer in the playoff race either.

But more likely, it'll just be Stults. I'd prefer McDonald, but he's pitched a lot this year, and I don't have any problems with Stults. Either way, I hope Laroche is playing by then, and more importantly, we manage to win the game.

156 - according to Gameday, it's now 8-5.

Can someone please tell me what PVL is? Thank you.

Also, I hope we can see Hu play, I have a feeling he is going to be something special.

160 - see 87

I was skeptical when I heard Dane Cook was hired for the MLB advertisements, but I actually like those ads.

Cook brings a certain energy, and the commercials are generally good. Maybe it's the music or the way the highlights are cut, but I get pumped up when I watch them.

Plus, I don't want to live in a world with more than one October.

Gonzo's PVL is clearly helping tonight.

A follow up to nate's 105 :

"Maybe down the road," he (Meloan) said. "I like to start. It's a better approach for me. I'm not worried about it. I'm here just to get my feet wet and see what it takes."

Gurnick said almost the exact same thing that Leung said regarding Laroche and Abreu, so it's just to give them extra time to prove their health. Or something. And as expected, Wolf, Tsao, and Brazoban are now on the 60-day DL.

peavy can make a lot of people look bad. but, dang, gonz. and kent look stinky as hai karate

Peavy with 8ks/4ip, and was barking at Russ Martin to get back in the box.

what's martin barking about? it's the ump's fault he swung at a pitch in his eyes? i love martin being cranky, by the way, but it's a bit overly aggro

166... that may explain my question in 167... didn't catch that...

PVL is a derogatory term used when a player who is over 30 makes an out.

166

I wouldn't mind if Martin took Peavy deep & admired it in the process.

169- When the revolution comes, you'll lose your head for that; but it made me laugh.

167

That's tamed compared to Peavy, Peavy seems to go temperately insane when he pitches.

i hate a lot of things. but i really, really hate kevin machale (former celtic; current devil worshiper or whatever... and, no, i don't care if i'm not spelling it right)... anyway, even if the guy in the second row isn't machale, he looks enough like him that i'm pissed...

This is boring....

Let's talk about Ned Colletti.....

Kevin Brown went equally insane when he pitched. Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson aren't exactly pictures of calm when they're pitching.

12-5 Arizona in the third.

148 - Is Stanford off the hook for losing to UC Davis?

177
In football, yes. In basketball, no.

177/178 what's the mascot for uc davis? the animal husbands? isn't it a school where one learns to be a vet?

151 - Thanks.

179
Aggies

178 - Football's the hard one. Upsets of the century are easier to come by in hoops.

PVL = Hillenbrand.

fun times in san diego, what a bunch of losers.

181: thanks... so it would be the aggies vs. the woods? i keep seeing a forest symbol in the paper next to stanford's name.

nice.

I think if Hillenbrand had run at Bard instead of throwing to first, he would have gotten him in a rundown.

It was a fine pick but a terrible throw.

LaRoche better be in the starting lineup tomorrow.

I don't like the way this Hillenbrand guy plays.

the shea hillenbrand era will be remembered for its darkness and rather odd scalp stubble... not for baseball...

Click. Hey, looks like Cal is going to win this one.

life stinks.

Click

quick, which former giant used to trot out his homers like cameron just did rounding third? something about "flaps down..." ...

Well, it was a fun season...

Wait 'til next year, boys. Wait 'til next year.

when you are glad to see mark hendrickson "worming" in the bullpen, it tells you what kind of a night it has been.

I'm not sure what happened on that play. I think the Padre's announcer's forehead vein burst and shorted out the equipment.

Ja, hard to disagree. One swing of the bat by Cameron and it does feel like everything is over this season. Not that I was overly optimistic prior to this. Sigh.

I just want to know who called for a slider over the plate on a 1-2 count...

194 Jeffrey "Penitentiary Face" Leonard.

I still blame Pierre for how things are turning out.

game, set, season. Now let the kids play every day. I dont want to see Gonzo or shea start one more game in the next month, and i'm guessing I'm not alone.

194- Jeff Leonard....?

200... ah, thanks. i couldn't remember the last name. was driving me nuts...

In other news, "Feat of Clay" is a poor pun to be shouting all over the place on Bucholz' no hitter.

There's no better kind of reaction than overreaction!

Maybe Ned can find us 8 Hillenbrands to play for the Dodgers.

Boy, Ned is a great GM.

I'll bet the other GMs are really impressed with Ned's moves.

Come on Grady... Don't do it. Hendy's worse...

205 Nice. What about "Second [start] to None"?

5 games behind both the Dbax/Padres seems like its over.

Just not enough games, too many poor management decisions to overcome.

I'll take Second to None happily.

In more other news, inventor of Nautilus machines dies, turns out to have been a crazy, fascinating guy. http://tinyurl.com/366j66

This has been such a wierd season....I have never seen so many obvious win garnering moves NOT made....

208 It don't matter. Peavy owns the Dodgers. They ain't gonna score off him, so it don't matter how much more they give up. :(

Look on the bright side, Meloan will almost certainly have his major league debut tonight. It's a waste of his talent, but he needs to prove himself as a mop up pitcher if he has any hopes of becoming something more, unfortunately.

213 It's the principle of it.

I've always been partial to the vasovagal reaction. But that's just me.

On the bright side the Trojans look good. But it's not like they're playing Appalachian State or anything.

'05 was bad but at least you could make fun of it in a friendly way because of all the really bad breaks we go with injuries & what not.

'07 is just flat out frustrating down on the field & with upper management, sigh! if we're gonna lose I much rather lose with the kids than with PVL at least there's up side with them.

'08 can't wait to see what the future holds...

i hate brent musberger. i just flipped to the cal/tennessee game and i heard musberger with his faux thespian announcing crud... i hate brent musberger as much as i hate kevin machale... maybe more. and that's saying something...

I think a Samuel L. Jackson line might be appropriate here (Paraphrased, Edited for content):

"I have had it with these gosh darned Dodgers on my gosh darned computer !

217- Did Idaho's coach just lick his headset microphone?

217
The game is in HD after all.

i think musberger rises during eras of, for me, repellant national politics. he was big in the '80s. went away during the 90s... and he's back now...

221 It was a signal to Larry Craig.

It's a waste of his talent, but he needs to prove himself as a mop up pitcher if he has any hopes of becoming something more

His mechanics in spring training didn't impress me all that much in terms of him wanting to be a starter, but I remembered he had a leg injury maybe that's why he looked kind of awkward when he was pitching during ST, can't wait to see him pitch no matter what.

Down on the farm:

Laroche: 1-4, BB
Young: 3-5, 2 2Bs
Abreu: 3-5

220... HA
218... yeah, agreed. this year has been frustrating because management has been motivated by fear, not trust. every player move seems to be in anticipation of the worst possible outcome... sort of guarantees mediocrity...

222 You have it in HD? All I've got in the suburbs of Beantown is SD on something in the 200s.

224 Yeah. I don't think anyone will idly tap their foot in an airport bathroom ever again.

Kent surprises me sometimes I swear.

if kent was younger he woulda caught that standing up...

230 He knows where to be. If you follow hockey, it's the same way that J.S. Giguere is effecive.

Meloan's warming in the bullpen.

Meloan has some rediculously tight pants on....

228
The excitement of USC vs. Idaho is not greatly enhanced by HD.

I'm just glad I'm at home and out of the heat.

MELOAN ALERT. MELOAN ALERT.

232

very true

Russell, we needed you to catch Meloan bro! dang!!!!

That was strike 3? If he's going to be kicked out, this is a good game to do it I suppose, let's just hope for no suspension.

who is this freaking ump!!

235 I can't imagine it would be. Still, it seems a more competitive game than LA-SD.

Martin wanted a few innings off...

[taking deep breaths saying to self, this is just a game]

239 Naw. He just pointed at him and said a few choice words. No contact means no suspension.

it's like a singles bar... the ump was looking to toss martin... martin was looking to get tossed...

Hu, there it is.

Well here he is, finally.

what the hell is hu wearing around his neck? is he part schnauzer?

Meloan looks like Rex Hudlers offspring. :o)

The great Tony Gwynn thought the pitch was low and inside.

In honor of Xeifrank, I will welcome Hu Jinlong to the majors.

you know, as horrible as this game has been, it could be kinda... historic.

I'm grilling some marinated chicken and it feels like it's still 100 degrees out.

Hu?
Oh. He's our shortstop.

240 That's Dan Iassogna. He's the same ump who cost the Dodgers a game in Cincinnati in 2002 or '03 when he kicked Gagne out of a game for no reason.

Note for Bob... Padre announcers have confirmed that Hu is the shortest last name in the history of the majors.

They are pronouncing it Hue.

250 I think it's pronounced "Gu"

I'm digging Meloan's pitching style, especially the not allowing any batters to reach base part.

Meloan just rules.

254 I think I was there that day. Did Griffey end it with a home run?

I'm very happy, and I hope the many others who have been calling for Meloan are as pleased.

The pitch was obviously a strike, by the way. Not really any room for argument there, unless you're one of those people who thinks strikes should be called based not on the strike zone, but on how perfectly they hit the catcher's target.

The problem is, Iassogna is one of those people, as he'd been calling strikes for Peavy all night long when he hit the catcher's mitt, even if the mitt was out of the zone.

254

I was hoping Russell Would poke him in his eyes, but I guess I was aiming to high, at least he told him off.

260 Unfortunately, I can't say I'm pleased. He threw a ball! That's unacceptable, he needs to find some control. =)

256 LOL

Go Meloan!

Meloan is nasty. I also like how he pronounces his name. Destined for greatness...

the dodgers are bad tonight. but the ump is having a worse game. wow...

Iassogna is a failure as a human being. He's really just terrible behind the plate. Thee's no way he should be a major league umpire.

In Iassogna's defense, it was clear from Martin's (and now Loney's) wide stances that they were begging to get screwed.

256 Meh. Just mumble and halfway it: "Ghu"

the "entirely new" outfield for san diego can take a seat with hillenbrand up...

give him a hit!

268 Of the many ways to interpret that sentence, I will choose the least vulgar.

H/Gu looks like a little short stop that could, I dig it!!

Well, at least Kemp hit the ball ahrd.

Darnit! I gave up on this game for awhile (for obvious reasons) so I could watch this review copy DVD of Johnny To's "Exiled" (which completely rocks by the way, go see it), came back to check like the masochist I am and saw that I'd missed Meloan's debut. :-( Is that it for him, or is he coming in for one more?

Rats. Sounds like he looked good, though, which is fantastic, even if it's a month later than we should have been seeing him.

Ah well. Watch for a few minutes more and then back to the movie.

Shut up Vasgersian. You do this for a living. Leave the Abbott and Costello riffs to the commenters in the blogosphere.

I see I have my answer! Hooray. The movie can wait a few.

272- I haven't been able to be around the last few days, so I don't know if the vernacular of Sen. Craig's unfortunate interrogation has been done to death, here. But I wanted to play along.

Oh... Football's back on...

Myrow is a Padre, now? That's fantastic.

The Padres' announcers need to be put on a bus to the happiest place on earth - Tijuana - and not let back into the country. {mute}

280 He's a member of the 2 for 1 when you sign Depo. Though he did struggle in Portland to the tune of .354/.440/.579.

281 See... If I mute them, I won't know that man-law frowns upon playing next years presumed starters instead of this year's vets.

277 It should be noted that Meloan had very good control until a certain someone came along. Coincidence?

i want the best for meloan, but his landing point is, uh, erratic. i don't think he's taken the exact same windup more than two or three times...

I pronounce Hu Who as in who is Hu.

You guys notice Meloan FINISHES OFF differently when he throws a curve then we he throws a fastball?

This game, even more than last night's, affirms the
D's willingness to go with the future and not compete this year (Kemp didn't even start). This is admirable--but remember, you can't shift this approach in the middle.
And in reality, you have to play your organizations young players and let Hillembrand, Sweeney, Martinez and others go to take this path that you have already gone down.

It could be very important for F. McCourt to read the opinions here before proceding.

He's built like a freaking rock though, wow.

So, uh... OT: I've got the sixth pick in my FFB draft tomorrow in a league with standard scoring rules. I'm sort of at a loss on who to take. Any suggestions or guesses?

I think the Dodgers made a great choice in making Meloan a reliever, I'm not sure how he'll development down the road but for now I think the Dodgers made a great choice in making him a reliever.

Again, if anyone here would like to express their opinions to Frank McCourt, I encourage you to write him a letter (not an e-mail). He will read it, I promise you.

If he gets sufficient feedback from fans who care enough to take the time to write him a letter, believe me, he will take action. They realize that one letter probably represents the thoughts of hundreds of fans.
Ned will proceed on a different path then the one he has been on, and the future can be altered in a positive way.

One has to take the long view in looking for revenge on the Padres. Since pitching is a 50/50 crapshoot, their team built on pitching and a pitchers stadium is tenuous at best. I wonder if Peavey will end up pitching for someone like the D's who can afford him. That is if he doesn't pitch for Boras. Anyone know who his agent is?

290 -- In my league, Addai went 6th. I went with Parker at 7. Take either and you'll be fine.

284 Ahem! I was in the john for part of that, I'll have you know. But yeah, I was wondering if I was a jinx - until I saw him get out of it.

Didn't miss much else in the game apparently. Feh.

Even with a few weeks left, is it clear enough that tomorrow's game is a "must win"?

294 I had Parker two years ago. He was good on yardage except that he lost out on TDs to the Bus. I just wonder if his O-line is good enough to open holes for him.

Jake Peavy is represented by Barry Axelrod.

297 Excellent, and thank you Bob.

Was there a game tonight? I think the Dodgers overslept and missed it.

Man, Exiled rocks, did I mention that? Okay, back to it. Night all.

I like round numbers.

I like prime numbers.

Not that 301 is a prime number.

I know we all love Logan White and all, but it's kind of annoying to know we could have had Phil Hughes, Clay Buchholz, and Joba Chamberlain instead of Elbert, picking Hochevar and Mattingly.

301 I've always found primes to be a bit elitist. They act like a unique God-given gift to number theory.

302 -- In the case of Hochevar, we know that that wasn't even White's choice: DePodesta told him to pick Hochevar. Anyway, the "we could have had X instead of y" statements about the draft in HINDSIGHT are ones every team's fans say, and they are never really fair. In this case, Buchholz came out of nowhere, Chamberlain had medical issues going into the 2006 draft, and Elbert was ranked higher than Hughes by everybody going into the 2004 draft.

304 "In the case of Hochevar, we know that that wasn't even White's choice: DePodesta told him to pick Hochevar."

I would dispute that we actually know that, unless you've got a quote from DePo or White to that effect. I followed the situation pretty closely at the time, and I don't remember anything nearly that definitive coming out.

305 -- Three different journalists who have sources in the Dodgers' organization -- Gurnick, Tony Jackson, and Bill Shelley -- have reported that DePodesta forced Hochevar on White, and Shelley has even said that the Hochevar fiasco played a role in DePo's getting fired by McCourt. Whatever one thinks of the opinions of those guys (and I certainly don't think much of Gurnick and Jackson as analysts), somebody in the organization has given them the same information about what led to Hochevar being picked. I suppose you can question the veracity of the source or sources if you want, but on what grounds would you do that, other than that you suspect that DePo's enemies within the Dodgers' organization want to tarnish DePo's name further? Is it really improbable that DePo would tell White to take Hochevar? Hochevar was an elite college pitcher with great stats, DePo made it clear from the start that he expected to play a role in Dodger drafts, and DePo is not known to have avoided Boras clients.

I do find it a reasonable notion that DePo influenced the pick. I just don't think it's a verified, written-in-stone fact as was implied in 304 . Logan White has spoken as glowingly of Hochevar as a prospect as he did of Kyle Blair or Kershaw or any number of others. I do find it hard to believe that it was an unequivocal order on DePo's part rather than a give-and-take discussion of some sort. Arbitrary decrees are not the way DePo handles a draft, at least not if Michael Lewis' portrayal is to be believed.

And whether it's true or not, there's obviously a clear self-interest involved in someone still in the Dodger organization feeding the info to Gurnick and Jackson. It makes the Hochevar disaster look like DePo's fault and not the fault of anyone still employed with the team. From your description it appears to have been a pro-active "leak" on the Dodgers' part, rather than a reporter sniffing something out; otherwise, how did two reporters end up with exactly the same anonymous quotes?

It's a minor point and we've probably given it more discussion than it deserves. I just wondered what made you so certain that it happened that way.

I suggested here yesterday that the Dodgers needed another big bat and that getting one would probably necessitate trading one or more prospects. Yesterday's dismal game proved my point again.

The reality is this: A lineup of Martin, Loney, Kent (or Hu/Abreu), Furcal, LaRoche, Kemp, Pierre, Ethier simply does not have enough slugging.

What is going to change that next year? LaRoche hits 30 or 40 dingers his first year in the bigs? That is a wonderful fantasy but the kid hasn't had that kind of year yet even in the PCL, where everyone seems to hit over .300. Loney? He looks like a pure line-drive hitter. Maybe he will develop some sock later on but it is not apparent now. That leaves it to Kemp to drive in runs.

And friends, that ain't gonna make it.

Somebody said yesterday that it was dangerous to seek a big bat via trade. But it is not "dangerous" to rely solely on first and second year players?

Don't get me wrong: I love these young players. I have been following them since the day each was drafted. But the clue doctor keeps calling. It is time to pick up the phone.

308 -- Kemp was in last night's line-up, and LaRoche too? And no one here will defend a line-up that has Hillenbrand in it, so you are tilting at a strawman. But really, I believe it is sufficient to note that you think a game against the best pitcher in the National League -- the guy looking like a shoo-in to be the Cy Young Award winner for 2007 -- "proves" something, anything, about our offense, which is of course poppycock. Insert whatever slugger you care to name into last night's Dodger line-up -- A-Rod, Pujols, Howard, anybody -- and we still get killed last night, and likely by shutout. The superstar hitters of the game are what they are not because they clobber Cy Young candidates, but because they don't get beat by the Steve Trachsels of the game.

According to Ken Gurnick of MLB.com, Grady Little said LaRoche and Tony Abreu "were not promoted with Saturday's group to allow them a few extra games and innings in the remaining games for Las Vegas."

Insulting.

Your point is taken. Of course, it is difficult for anyone to beat Peavy. But if you can't get runs across the night before against a no-name rookie pitcher, you sure aren't going to beat a Peavy.

I don't like Hillenbrand either. So remove him and replace him with LaRoche. No one on this site likes Pierre. So remove him, too, and replace him with Kemp. That gives you one outfield slot to fill with someone else. Soon Kent will be gone. His slot will be taken over by Abreu/Hu.

Are you really comfortable with the resulting line-up for 2008? Do you really believe that Loney, LaRoche, and Kemp will somehow account for 70 to 90 dingers between them and a slew of RBIs that make up, additionally, for the dingers and RBIs you lose when Kent is replaced by Abreu/Hu?

The point I am making, again, is that a team of all first and second year players (not counting Ethier who, technically, would be in his third year) will simply not have the offensive punch necessary to win the Western Division.

At least one trade for one big bat will be necessary. That will mean losing one or more prized youngsters.

This suggestion seems to raise strong feelings on this site, probably because no one fully trusts Ned to make such a trade. That I can understand, though it does not change the reality that one more bona fide bat is needed.

And we haven't even begun to discuss the other problem: starting pitching. "McDizzle" looked terrific again his last time out. Supposedly, he is throwing with less velocity from overwork. Can you imagine what this guy will be like when completely healthy? But he is the exception. Kershaw, our crown jewel, got ripped up his last time out at AA. He is several years from helping us. Elbert is a med case. Houlton, Stulz, et al. are waiver wire material. Meanwhile, Handrahan pitched a one-hitter for the Nats.

I wish I could believe, as so many on this site do, that the Dodgers could become a dynasty if they would just unload Pierre and let every rookie and prospect play full time. That is cool aid I just can't swallow.

At least one trade for one big bat will be necessary. That will mean losing one or more prized youngsters.

On one hand, you say the prized youngsters aren't as good as the big bats, and that the Dodgers can't win with the prized youngsters.

On the other hand, you say that the prized youngsters are enough to acquire a big bat in a trade.

If the big bats are better than the prized youngsters, why would other teams trade the big bats for our prized youngsters?

I said that it would take one or MORE youngsters from us to make a decent trade. Why would Florida or Cincinnati make such a trade with us? Because they do not have the budget we do and will trade high-end, expensive players for low-cost beginners.

But as long as every single prospect, rookie, or second year player is deemed untouchable, no such trade will take place.

Tell me how you think the 2008 lineup I described will gin up enough offense to win the division. I am not even sure it will give us more offense than we have had from the 2007 line-up.

Dodger Jack, the entire first half of the season had Nomar at 1B. It also featured LuGo for about 65% of starts this year.

Home runs are not a necessity to get offense, but slugging pct and OBP will go a long way. Take a look at the Angels. Not a lot of pop, but folks get on base and create a lot of noise.

And beyond that, if you have Martin and Kemp getting 20 hrs a year, that should be plenty good. Don't forget I think Furcal ought to be much better next year healing his injury.

This doesn't even factor in LaRoche, but I still haven't seen much of him at the big league level.

If Kemp were to pop 35 homers, Laroche 20 and Loney 15 that would account for 70 home runs. I don't think this is out of the realm of possibility IF they are allowed to play every day. Martin has already shown that he can be counted on for around 20 HRs and I would think Ethier can hit 15-20 in a full season, too. While I agree that another big masher would be nice, I really don't see a critical power shortage here.

311 -- I don't know who you consider to be a "prospect" and who you consider a "young major leaguer," but I am sure you underestimate the cost of getting the big bat you want through trade. The price for Teixeira was three out of Loney, Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, and Broxton PLUS Kershaw. Give up all that and it doesn't matter what ONE player we get back -- we ara going to be a WORSE team. And what has Atlanta gained by giving up their farm for Teixeira? I believe the Braves' record since getting Teixeira is LESS than .500, and that is with Teixeira performing better than he was in Texas, so he may even decline. I am for the Dodgers building toward something, and with a whole-team approach. You seem to be looking for a magic bullet, that one guy who is going to be a savior. We are not looking for the same thing, and I don't believe your way would help us.

Precisly. RBIs are the missing factor. Of course, Nomar and Gonzales are not the answer. Neither meets the definition of a big bat.

Asking Kemp to hit 35 in his first full season is a tall order. I would be pleased with 25 from him. LaRoche has not shown that much power at LV this year and he is injured far too often. Loney might be in range of the 15 dingers you describe, which is less than we would like to see from a first sacker in the Western Division.

The conventional wisdom of this site is that:

(1) Pierre is the fount of all things wrong with our team;
(2) DePo was a genius and should be in charge rather than Ned;
(3) No prospects should ever be traded.

I will be the contrarian and say:

(a) Pierre is a weak-armed CF who will hit .280-.290 and steal lots of bases year in and year out. He didn't deserve the payday Ned gave him, but in terms of his contributions on the field, he cannot be blamed for the 2007 collapse (yeah, I will use the word) of the Dodgers;
(b) DePo gave us the worst first baseman I have seen in my days as a Dodger fan. Good riddens, DePo; and
(c)We will either trade some of our prospects or not improve in 2008.

Okay, guys, fire away!

I assume that we are looking for the same thing: a consistently winning L.A. Dodgers. I do not want to misrepresent your case, but you apparently believe that we can do that without trading any of our top ten youngsters. I agree that the price was too high for Tex, but I do not think that will be the last trade overture we will encounter for our youngsters. Yep, I would take Tex over Loney at first base. And I do not think Bills should be untouchable. He has lots of potential and has looked great in a few games this year but he has yet to show that he is a consistent winner. Neither Bills or Kershaw is a Koufax. Of that I am reasonably certain. Kemp is the closest to being an untouchable because he appears to have five tools.

I am not looking for a "savior." I am looking for a Cabrera or a Tex or a Dunn who will give us one of their typical years.

The danger of treating most prospects/youngster/rooks as untouchable is that you are setting them up, collectively, as "saviors."

317 I'll just address point (a) by saying I don't blame Pierre for anything. I blame Flanders for bringing Pierre in. Had Pierre not clogged up centerfield we would have begun the year with a rotating outfield of Gonzo, Kemp, Ethier and Loney, which, in my opinion, would have given us a much stronger line-up.

Canuck speaks the truth. The "magic bullet" is letting this team grow together.

317
I understand the points your making but I think some of your comments are misleading.

To say La Roche didn't show much power at AAA this year is false. He showed little power before his callup, and little power power before he went on the DL. However once he came off the DL and his shoulder responded to the rest, he was one of the BEST power power hitters in the minor leagues from that point on. He hit 12 home runs in July in 90 at bats, and posted a 1.40 OPS. Now if you look at his power numbers in in the aggregate it might look like he had a pedestrian year but if your going to do analysis, then you have to look at all the mitigating factors that make up a players season.

318 I wouldn't bring Koufax into the conversation. He's the poster child for keeping talented youngsters.

As far as Depo and Logan White, and how he influenced the drafts, it doesn't take a marketing director to look at how White drafted before and after Depo, and how he drafted during Depo's time here, to determine which players Depo influenced White to pick.

318
Each of those players are in a different class and would involve different scenarios to acquire them.
Miggy is just about the 2nd best hitter in the NL and is arbitration elgible.
Tex is a solid 1st baseman, but is he an elite player? I don't think so.
Dunn is a two trick pony. Power & Walks.

If you want to talk about acquiring Miggy just about everyone except Canuck has signed on for that that attempt.

Analysis has been done that when the Tex talk was going on that he is not a big enough upgrade over the future production of Loney to make it worth even 1/2 the asking price of what the Braves gave up.

Dunn is wanted by some and not by some. I'm not a Dunn fan. If we signed him as a FA then I'd be interested but I wouldn't even trade you Ethier for him.

It is all about availability. Just becuase you wish for someone's else's slugger doesn't mean they are available. How many teams do think aren't salivating over Matt Kemp and to a less extent La Roche.

If you advocate trading the kids, just consider this. Getting a win out of a pre arbitration player costs about 100 thousand dollars. Getting a win out of a free agent costs about four million. If you want to replace a pre arb player with an equivalent on the open market, it will cost you 40 times as much.

This is why free agent shopping should only be a last resort.

Which player is least likely to be on the team in 2008?

2b Abreu
c Martin
cf Kemp
1b Loney
3b LaRoche
rf Ethier
lf Young
ss Hu

I would consider including Furcal in a trade for a pitcher. I wouldn't mind having Nomar and Pierre on the bench but they need to traded or Grady needs to be let go or they will be back in the starting lineup.

325 Abreu, Kent isn't going anywhere. Also Young, because Pierre isn't going anywhere.

Gurnik: The acquisition of pitcher Esteban Loaiza means the Dodgers have seven players under contract through the 2008 season with a financial commitment of $76.6 million (including salaries and pro-rated signing bonuses).

Four of those guaranteed salaries are for starting pitchers -- Loaiza, Derek Lowe, Brad Penny and Jason Schmidt. Position players under contract are infielders Rafael Furcal and Garciaparra and outfielder Juan Pierre.

Factoring in his pro-rated signing bonus, Furcal will be the highest-paid of the group at $16 million, followed closely by Schmidt at $15.5 million. Schmidt and Pierre are the only ones of the group whose contracts are guaranteed beyond 2008.

Players with 2008 options are Jeff Kent, Mike Lieberthal, Ramon Martinez and Wolf.

Players eligible for salary arbitration after this season are relievers Joe Beimel, Brazoban, Mark Hendrickson, Scott Proctor and Tsao and outfielder Jason Repko.

326 - Kent could retire

328 I think it's really unlikely that he'll leave nine million guaranteed dollars on the table.

Meloan says he wants to go back to starting. That is where I have always thought he should be and would love to see him as a starter. The rotation I would love to see next year is below that could be backed up with the likes of Loaiza, Houlton, Stultz, Kuo, Hendrickson...

Billingsley
Meloan
Kershaw
Miller
McDonald

Trade Penny and Lowe

329 - Maybe with a negotiated retirement he wouldn't have to leave all of it.

I hope that is a 2010 rotation and not 2008. Your going to move Penny and Lowe:
1. someone who's never started a pro game because his mechanics suggest he'd implode if he was a starter.
2. A 19 year old kid
3. A pitcher who averages a walk a inning and probably less then 4 innings a start
4. A pitcher who has about 1/4 season in AA.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff.

Yeah, no offense, but 330 is the just the stupidest comment I've read on this site in years.

333

And I even mis-typed to go along with pointing that out.

308 Let's look at the lineup you mentioned, and their 2007 stats:

C-Martin .479 slugging (NL avg C - .379 slugging)
1B-Loney .451 (.467)
2B-Kent .500 (.417)
3B-LaRoche .263 (.451) -- [55 PAs here]
SS-Furcal .364 (.416)
LF-Ethier .452 (.476)
CF-Pierre .348 (.427)
RF-Kemp .520 (.442)

The collective NL line for these 8 positions is .273/.342/.436.

Collectively, this starting 8 has hit .292/.356/.429 in 2007. I would easily take that offense. What it lacks in slugging, it makes up for in getting on base.

Let's assume (and this is only an assumption) LaRoche hits .275/.350/.450 over roughly 450 PAs. That moves the group Dodger numbers up to .291/.354/.434. Who wouldn't take that?

The only person I want to see at 3B now, or in 2008, other than LaRoche, is A-Rod. The team can afford it ($92.5m projected for 2008). Heck, LaRoche could platoon at 1B with Loney for a year, with perhaps the occasional spot start for both of them in the outfield. Then, A-Rod can move to SS in 2009.

But, if A-Rod is not manning 3B for the Dodgers in 2008, LaRoche better be. And the Dodger lineup will be above average.

330. I, too, disagree entirely with Bumsrap. He has taken the all-prospect/rookie/youngster line-up to the ultimate extreme: the starting rotation. But he is only suggesting for the rotation what many on this site are suggesting for our position players.

Also, calling someone's post "stupid" is bad form, especially when you precede with the insult with "no offense." Of course, it is offensive. I prefer Toy Cannon's response, which detailed why an all-rook rotation was a poor idea but said nothing that might offend the person who posted it.

I think I'm going to cry:

Furcal, SS

Pierre, CF

Kemp, RF

Kent, 2B

Ethier, LF

Martin, C

Loney, 1B

LaRoche, 3B

Billingsley, P

Furcal, Martin, Loney, Either, Kemp - that's five guys who can average 20 homeruns in a season, and will probably be over that number more often than not. LaRoche could (and I emphasize could) also contribute another 20 homeruns per season, that's pretty balanced power (something that makes it harder on opposing pitchers because they don't have anyone to pitch around).

If Kent's option vests (it's performance based, right?), I'd look at moving him. As I said yesterday, I think the best thing for Kent and his career (as well as the Dodgers) is for him to become a DH. Hu or Abreu to play second. Of course, I'm in the "Get A-Rod" camp, and would relish the defensive alignment problem having him would create.

As far as the rotation, let's figure worst case scenario - Schmidt is done. That gives us Penny, Lowe, Billingsly, and Lozia for sure next year. Kuo could be back, or Wolf (though not likely). We could see Kershaw, but that might be rushing him. So, maybe another farm hand or a free agent/trade to round out the rotation. If Saito leaves, Meloan becomes Broxton's set up man (or maybe Gagne finally comes up with that home team discount, okay, that's just tilting at windmills).

Things aren't as bad with this team as we like to believe. Yes, they play in a bad division, so we all had the expectations of making the playoffs. But despite the PVL, we are watching a rather young team develop, there are going to be growing pains. That's what we've seen this year. But I'm still confident that if the guys listed above are given a chance to play every day, not kept on such short leashes, and not jerked around the way they have been much of this season, this team could be very good, for a very long time.

336

Okay, thanks for the shout out.

337 - get out the champagne, we're not going to need it in October, so we might as well use it now!

LaRoche hitting 8th? :)
vr, Xei

Good thing I wrote that letter to McCourt!

Icaros: Peace, bro.

337. With the exception of having LaRoche at third base, that is today's line-up, the one that could bring runners home against the Pad's no-name rookie pitcher two nights ago, the one that has wedged us solidly back in third place.

337. And the baseball Gods shook the earth in approval...

338 The NL West as bad division meme is over. The NL West is going to be the toughest division in the NL next year if you ask me.

338 Furcal, Martin, Loney, Either, Kemp - that's five guys who can average 20 homeruns in a season

I wouldn't be so quick to include Furcal. His career high in HR is 15, and he averaged 14 per year 2003-2006. Did you mean those 5 together would average 20 HR (100 total between the 5 of them?)?

I do agree with the overall point of your post though.

343 The lineup in 337 is today's lineup!

345 - ok, yeah, it's not as bad as those who live in the World According to ESPN. It'll likely have the WC team this year, and for the foreseeable future. What I should have said was that coming into the season, it was an underwhelming division - that was the expectation. After watching this season, the NL West has four good teams, and the Giants.

344 Was there an actual earthquake 10 minutes ago? I thought I was losing it. My office is on rollers and it can be sensitive to things, but I was pretty sure it was an earthquake.

344
For those of you shaking at home:
http://tinyurl.com/32369n

346 - yeah, I meant that those five guys could collectively average 20 HR. Even if Furcal is averaging 14, the other four only have to hit 22 HRs to bring the average up to 20.

343 -- How many times have Ethier, Loney, and Kemp even been in the same line-up, and yet you call this line-up responsible for our being in third place? Tomko and Hendrickson and Hernandez and so on don't even shoulder any blame? I think I am far from alone in thinking that you are not being reasonable.

347 No, but seriously. What's the line-up? ;-)

See, I knew that Grady had had enough of Hillenbrand. Seriously, he probably cried at Colletti's feet last night, pounding his fists on the ground, and in a Joan Crawford voice said "No... more... Hillenbrand!"

349. Felt it just a little here in Santa Monica. Enough to set the neighbor's yippy little dogs off.

343 Look again at 335 . The 8 Dodgers in today's lineup have hit this year, at an above average clip. And, like CanuckDodger said in 352 , this group hasn't had the chance to be in the same lineup that often.

354
You should go to the link in 350 and fill ou the "Did You Feel It?" questionnaire for the USGS. Then you can find out the Mercalli Intensity of the quake.

I'm surprised a quake that was all the way out in the Inland Empire would be felt in Santa Monica.

For those of you scoring at home, I am leading the bet with my brother (lowest ERA for the season wins a 12-pack of beer):

Billingsley (my pick) 3.50
Lowe (my bro's pick) 3.78

Let's hope Chad can widen the gap today!

Old Friend Dioner Navarro with a home run in New York. He's batting over .215 now.

Wells' suspension makes me even more appreciative of the Loiza move. And at least Stults gives us another decent option. Now the team just needs a) Lowe to settle himself down; b) better defense, and c) better hitting. And they'll be fine! No worries.

I've never met frequent commenter Marty, but I found his website:

http://www.magicalmarty.com/

I hope LaRoche mania, or whatever it will be called, strikes Dodger fans. I foresee shirts with the Dodger "LA" logo, followed by "Roche", similar to the "ValenzueLA" shirts of 26 years ago.

I'll buy the shirt that has the Dodger corners (Loney, LaRoche, Ethier, Kemp) + Martin, with the caption "Dodger Cornerstones" as soon as they make it!

360 I met Marty at DT day! If only he knew who I was.

;)

356 I guess the tremors couldn't make it up Cajon Pass. I didn't feel a thing up here in the desert.

363
There must be something in the soil conditions in Santa Monica that makes it so sensitive to earthquakes. The Northridge quake in 1994 really pounded Santa Monica and yet over in South Pasadena there was hardly anything.

Except for my cat freaking out for an entire day.

I'm still baffled that Fillmore got hit so hard in 1994.

Can anyone shed any light on why Delwyn Young is not being mentioned as a call up either now or when the season ends on Tuesday?

365 I think everyone takes it as a given that he will be called up on Tuesday. Perhaps that's why there isn't much discussion about it.

Today, by the way, is the 15th time Kemp, Ethier, and Loney have been in the same lineup together.

Today is also the first time Ethier, LaRoche, Kemp, and Loney have appeared in the same professional lineup since they played for the Phoenix Desert Dogs of the Arizona Fall League in 2005.

Thanks Eric, hope you are right, given that the Dodger call up info has been has secretive has the old Soviet regime, I wasn't sure....maybe on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week will be suprised to have an outfield of Either Kemp and Young! (LOL)

364. It really was more of a shutter here than anything. If I wasn't busy quietly reading DT so as not to disturb the sleeping-in wife I probably wouldn't have noticed it.

368
I've talked to some experts in Colletiology who work over at RAND and they think that Young will be up Tuesday.

The Dodgers have 27 games left. In order to make the playoffs, I estimate we need to go 20-7 in our remaining games.

Maybe if we leave Hillenbrand, Nomar and Lugo on the bench we can do it.

371 We would also have to convince Lowe to stop giving up 2+ homers per game.

New post up top.

Oh, baseball gods! Please let us score 10 runs with this lineup today including at least 1 extra base hit for LaRoche.

(Of course our 15 run outburst in Philly resulted in Gonzo right back in the lineup the next day, so maybe I should ask the gods for something to happen a little higher in the food chain)