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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

You May Now Flip
2007-09-07 13:25
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Regular season tiebreaker scenarios involving the Dodgers, courtesy of the MLB Coin-Flipping Department and reported by MLB.com:

NL West
Dodgers at Diamondbacks
Padres at Dodgers
Dodgers at Rockies

NL Wild Card
Dodgers at Padres
Phillies at Dodgers
Dodgers at Rockies
Cubs at Dodgers
Dodgers at Brewers

I'm not sure why there's no scenario for the Diamondbacks and Dodgers being tied for the wild card, let alone why there is Dodgers-Cubs and Dodgers-Brewers but not Dodgers-Cardinals. And MLB was really not inspired by the Braves' rally over Philadelphia the other day.

Comments (136)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-07 13:31:14
1.   gpellamjr
If you're surprised by the quote from the last thread, you haven't been listening to what the man's been saying for the past few decades. This is nothing new.
2007-09-07 13:33:29
2.   kinbote
what if the dodgers, padres, & dbacks all finish tied for first? seriously.
2007-09-07 13:36:44
3.   Disabled List
MLB must also have a lot of faith in the Mets holding on to that 5-game lead.
2007-09-07 13:37:41
4.   blue22
2 - Even more complicating that scenario would be if the Wild Card winner (ie Philly, StL or Milwaukee) had a better record than that 3-way tie. 3 teams fighting for one spot!
2007-09-07 13:37:48
5.   Sospiro0
dare I say it? Osama B...
2007-09-07 13:39:17
6.   Jon Weisman
3 - No, click the link. They have a Mets-Phillies scenario. I only printed the Dodger ones here.
2007-09-07 13:40:50
7.   Sospiro0
or Marc [Cuban]
2007-09-07 13:43:43
8.   old dodger fan
For no particularly good reason on Aug 12th I started keeping track of how often Grady used his relievers.
Proctor 13 times; 14 1/3 innings
Beimel 13 times; 10 1/3 innings
Broxton 13 times; 13 2/3 innings
Saito 12 times; 11 1/3 innings
Seanez 10 times 11 1/3 innings
Hernandez 9 times; 8 2/3 innings
Hendy 6 times + 1 start; 7 2/3 innings exc the start

This is a span of 24 games.

I probably have too much time on my hands.

2007-09-07 13:45:25
9.   Eric Enders
6 I believe the point that 3 was making is that they must believe the Mets are guaranteed to either win or tie for the NL East, because they didn't do any wild-card scenarios involving the Mets.

Same thing with Arizona, they're assuming that the DBacks will at least tie for the division crown, since they didn't have any wild card scenarios either.

2007-09-07 13:45:38
10.   Bob Timmermann
If the wild card winner has a better record than teams in a 3-way tie for first in a division, the wild card team doesn't have to play a tiebreaker.

In 3 team ties, the teams are seeded 1-2-3 based on head-to-head record. The top team gets a bye while the other two play off. The winner of the first game hosts the #1 team the next day.

Tiebreakers go:
1) Head-to-head
2) Intradivision (even if in different divisions)
3) Intraleague
4) Record of over last 81 games not counting games played between the teams tied.

It's unlikely ever to get to number 4 or beyond it.

2007-09-07 13:47:40
11.   Disabled List
6 Yeah, but what if the Mets fall into a tie for the wild-card? (Admittedly, a serious longshot.)

More to the point, I'm happy that the Dodgers' only have one potential long trip for a road playoff (to Milwaukee).

2007-09-07 13:47:48
12.   blue22
10 - But if they're fighting for the WC and division (2 playoff spots), the "#1 seed" automatically makes the playoffs, and the #2 and #3 play for the WC? Or is there a different scenario for that?
2007-09-07 13:49:55
13.   Joshua Worley
I'm amused that they do separate flips for teams depending on whether it's a wild card tie or a division tie.

And the chances of an NL central team being the wild card is about zero, since for that to happen two of those teams would have to climb over the wild card leader.

2007-09-07 13:50:07
14.   Bob Timmermann
12
If there are three teams tied for a division and they would also be the wild card, there would still be a playoff and all the teams would have to play at least one game.

The only time you get an automatic bye is in a situation like the Dodgers and Padres last year.

2007-09-07 13:50:50
15.   GobiasIndustries
It seems the Pirates fired GM Dave Littefield....

This one goes out to D4P for being such a swell guy!

2007-09-07 13:58:08
16.   Eric Enders
It looks like MLB made a big mistake in assuming the Diamondbacks will win or tie for the division. Going by BP's Playoff Odds, they are not even the most likely team to win it. (It goes SD 38.97%, AZ 38.95%, LA 17.2%, COL 4.9%)

According to them, there is a 0.43% chance that the wild card winner comes from the Central.

2007-09-07 13:58:48
17.   Jon Weisman
9/11 - Gotcha.
2007-09-07 14:01:12
18.   blue22
14 - So assume: SD is #1, AZ is #2, and LA is #3.

LA beats AZ (yay!)
LA beats SD (woo hoo!)

LA gets the division, I assume. Would AZ and SD then play for the WC?

2007-09-07 14:05:52
19.   TellMeTheScoreRickMonday
Jon, what were the results of the Giants' coin flips?

Whoops, scratch that. I get it.

2007-09-07 14:06:14
20.   TellMeTheScoreRickMonday
Jon, what were the results of the Giants' coin flips?

Whoops, scratch that. I get it.

2007-09-07 14:10:56
21.   Eric Enders
18 But if that happened then nobody would know where to play the last game!

And yet they did allow for the extraordinarily remote possibility that the Brewers and Cubs will tie for the Wild Card? Is that even mathematically possible? It would require both teams to go on big hot streaks in September, while also allowing the Cardinals to pass them. And it would also require four teams out of these six -- Mets, Phillies, Padres, Dodgers, DBacks, Rockies -- to have bad Septembers.

2007-09-07 14:33:04
22.   Daniel Zappala
Apropos an article on the Times web site ... I always forget how funny the Bob Newhart show was. Definitely one of the top comedy shows of all time.
2007-09-07 14:36:25
23.   Bluebleeder87
8

Thanks for the list, I'm glad Saitos been used only a minimal # of times (it also helps that he has SICK CONTROL) those #'s should mean something during the stretch run.

2007-09-07 14:41:06
24.   Daniel Zappala
From the Daily Mirror Blog:

Definition for today: An old-timer is a person who remembers when Chavez Ravine was intended as a municipal housing project.

That ran in the Times on Sept. 6th, 1957.

Do you feel old now?

2007-09-07 14:41:06
25.   Jon Weisman
FJM's latest might have the best use of rule 1 violations I've seen in a while.
2007-09-07 14:41:16
26.   D4P
22
Which one?
2007-09-07 14:44:12
27.   Terry A
25 - You mean the Ankiel Rule 1 violations or the Wonka Rule 1 violations?
2007-09-07 14:48:30
28.   Jon Weisman
27 - Wonka.
2007-09-07 14:50:17
29.   ImprobableImpossible
But I want to be in first place NOW!
2007-09-07 14:51:28
30.   LogikReader
FJM?
2007-09-07 14:52:19
31.   LogikReader
ah ah... I think I got it... thanks anyway :)
2007-09-07 14:55:52
32.   Bluebleeder87
201. GoBears
From Will Carroll's latest at BP:

# Speaking of catchers, one of the biggest questions at the start of the season was who was the best of the great young catching crop. Joe Mauer was coming off a batting title, with Brian McCann and Russell Martin not far behind him. With two of those, injuries and workload become the defining variable. Mauer's leg problems have started up the talk of moving him to third base or DH, but I'm more worried about Martin's workload. Even when injured, as Martin is after being diagnosed with a sprained knee, the Dodgers keep loading up Martin. At some point we're going to figure out either that Martin is a freak of nature, or that he couldn't hold up under this workload; I'm not sure I like that binary outcome. Only the knowledge that Stan Conte is watching all the Dodgers' players gives me any reason for optimism.

nice quote picked by GoBears, I sincerely hope Russell Martin doesn't get over worked under Grady Little, it should be interesting to see how Grady & the Dodger trainers deal with Russell Martin in '08 & beyond.

2007-09-07 14:57:10
33.   Bob Timmermann
No NL team has been eliminated from winning its own division.

The Giants and Marlins are the closest to oblivion in that department.

Only Baltimore and Tampa Bay cannot win their own divisions in the AL.

2007-09-07 15:00:55
34.   Daniel Zappala
26 http://tinyurl.com/3bf5vd
2007-09-07 15:02:58
35.   D4P
34
What was the name of the show with "My brother Darryl and my other brother Darryl"?
2007-09-07 15:03:54
36.   blue22
That was just "Newhart" I think.
2007-09-07 15:04:42
37.   LogikReader
That was Newhart D4P.

Quick trivia question: What is the name the other sitcom with Bob Newhart, after "The Bob Newhart Show" and "Newhart"?

2007-09-07 15:04:47
38.   kinbote
sorry if i'm a little late in processing this, but logan white has to be offered that houston job, right? everybody knows he's the mastermind behind our recent player development. and he has to take it. in other words, he's gone.
2007-09-07 15:06:55
39.   fanerman
Why does he have to take it?
2007-09-07 15:06:59
40.   blue22
37 - I think it was "Bob". I think I remember that his hypothetical next series was going to be called "The".
2007-09-07 15:10:29
41.   LogikReader
40 is right. LOL

A similar process occurred for Bill Cosby's sitcoms.

First there was "The Bill Cosby Show"
Then there was "The Cosby Show"
Then there was "Cosby"

soon there will be "Show"

2007-09-07 15:12:19
42.   underdog
40 Heh. I was just about to make the same comment. Good thing I refreshed. Speaking of the original Bob Newhart show (which is still my favorite), TV Land will be airing some of the show's best episodes on Monday night. I wish they'd just start airing the whole thing but it's a start.

Oops, sorry ScreenJam talk. Back to baseball... I dunno, anytime Will Carroll writes anything about the Dodgers these days I just feel like ignoring it, even if he makes a valid point.

2007-09-07 15:15:05
43.   underdog
41 Don't forget "Cos". (Variety show he hosted that failed. was too young to see it myself, but do remember hearing about it...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cos_%28TV_series%29

I guess "Co" could be the next one.

2007-09-07 15:17:04
44.   King of the Hobos
http://tinyurl.com/3dfgwv

White was officially interviewed, so I doubt he will turn down the position if offered. More interviews scheduled for next Tuesday and Thursday, so we won't know what happens for awhile.

2007-09-07 15:20:22
45.   blue22
38 - Would White want to go to a place that has really zilch in the minor leagues? Would he see that as a challenge to promote his strength as a talent evaluator?

Houston has 3 real assets: Berkman, Oswalt, and Pence. Other than that, it looks pretty dismal. Add to that the fact that Drayton McLane apparently interferes quite a bit in baseball operations, and I'm not sure that's an ideal situation.

As one of the top 3 hot "non-GM's" out there, he doesn't need to jump at the first job offer.

2007-09-07 15:23:39
46.   King of the Hobos
45 Well, he definitely likes those 3 assets I guess:

"I certainly think this club can be competitive. They have a good core with a front-line pitcher in [Roy] Oswalt, plus [Lance] Berkman and a young guy like [Hunter] Pence coming up. There are a lot of positives. They want to go in the direction to continue to bring homegrown players like they have in the past." -Logan White

2007-09-07 15:25:50
47.   fanerman
46 When did he say that?
2007-09-07 15:26:02
48.   trainwreck
46
No Logan!! You are supposed to say this is a sorry franchise with a meddling owner and I want nothing to do with them.
2007-09-07 15:26:03
49.   Terry A
45 - "Would White want to go to a place that has really zilch in the minor leagues? Would he see that as a challenge to promote his strength as a talent evaluator?"

Wasn't that the situation he signed on for with the Dodgers? And it's worked out pretty well for him, I'd say.

I think a bigger obstacle for White is that nobody can hope to compete with a candidate named Muzzy. Nobody.

2007-09-07 15:26:54
50.   Eric Enders
Nice knowin' ya, Andy.

Furcal, SS
Pierre, CF
Kemp, RF
Kent, 2B
Nomar, 3B
Martin, C
Loney, 1B
Ethier, LF
Billingsley, P

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-07 15:28:05
51.   Bob Timmermann
After "Bob", Bob Newhart and Judd Hirsch co-starred in "George and Leo." It also featured Jason Bateman, who played Newhart's son.

In "Bob", Cynthia Stevenson played Newhart's daughter.

2007-09-07 15:28:57
52.   BlueCrew Bruin
50 Ahh, heck.
2007-09-07 15:29:15
53.   King of the Hobos
47 Today, see 44

50 It was nice while it lasted I guess. And it's good to see that Ethier bats 8th while someone that can barely run bats 5th.

2007-09-07 15:29:24
54.   trainwreck
50
Why does Ethier get moved down for Nomar?

This is why, Nomar getting activated was a bad thing.

2007-09-07 15:30:49
55.   LogikReader
Obviously Grady Little wasn't reading the KFWB poll
2007-09-07 15:30:55
56.   fanerman
53 50 Oh Boo-urns =(
2007-09-07 15:32:54
57.   underdog
50 Oh well, at least we get to see Ethier and Kemp in the same lineup (and Martin and Loney), tonight. (Trying to look at the bright side.) The other bright side is, better Nomar than Shea, I guess. Seeing Hillenbrand in SF would've also made me turn a Hulk shade of green. I really hope Andy gets some starts though, there's no way Nomar's body can hold up for the next few weeks at third without a good number of breaks.
2007-09-07 15:37:11
58.   LogikReader
Message to management:

If LaRoche gets moved this off-season, heed this warning: Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

2007-09-07 15:37:20
59.   LAT
25. That rant is entirely deserved. If you are going to make a C&tCF (sorry Eric)reference you better get it right.
2007-09-07 15:40:16
60.   Bob Timmermann
58
Sir, I represent the estate of George Santayana, I need to inform you that you are infringing upon the intellectual property of my client.

Please cease and desist the use of that aphorism unless you pay us royalties.

You can use PayPal.

It's $50.

2007-09-07 15:42:06
61.   Eric Enders
What I find interesting is that Jon was prescient enough to know LaRoche was being kicked aside and titled this post accordingly.
2007-09-07 15:46:14
62.   SoSG Orel
http://tinyurl.com/362juz

"Littlefield's failure to protect some top prospects and keep marginal ones led the Pirates to lose five of the top six picks in the 2005 winter-meeting draft, resulting in audible laughter in the New Orleans hotel meeting room."

Anyone know anything about this incident?

2007-09-07 15:49:47
63.   berkowit28
50 54

I'm guessing that Nomar doesn't last more than 5 innings, 3 PA. LaRoche will come in. Abreu may come in later (8th or so) for Kent. I wonder how long a leash Furcal has if he keeps getting out - they don't seem too taken with Hu but maybe he'll come in late too.

2007-09-07 15:50:30
64.   LAT
I think we had all better brace ourselves for the fact that Logan White will leave in the next year or two. First, by interviewing for the 'Stros job we know he wants to be a GM; Second, so far there are vacancies in Huston and Pitt, there will be more and while I wouldn't want either of those jobs one will come up that he does want. Third, lets face it, staying in a job where you are infinitely smarter than your boss would become very tiresome after awhile.
2007-09-07 15:51:02
65.   Eric Enders
There's no reason to take Furcal out late; he still plays outstanding defense.
2007-09-07 15:52:19
66.   Icaros
I totally don't feel like going to the game now. I'm in a bad mood.
2007-09-07 15:53:51
67.   Bluebleeder87
in all seriousness, I wasn't expecting Grady to Play a Rookie at 3rd base THE REMAINDER OF THE YEAR specially with Nomar as an option & like Jon mentioned yesterday, Nomar blocking La Roche in '08 will be our new frustration.

ps Hopefully La Roche busts a Loney next year.

2007-09-07 15:54:43
68.   LogikReader
Bob I meant to add "-- Some Guy I Don't Know the Name of"

I was not smart enough to write that myself.

2007-09-07 15:55:15
69.   Eric Enders
Maybe this will tell us once and for all whether White was actually upset with how the Kyle Blair thing turned out.

We're in a tough spot, really. Do we want the Dodgers to do well enough the next couple of years for Colletti to keep his job? Or would we rather Ned's abundant incompetence shine through so that instead of leaving us, White becomes our G.M.?

It's becoming very clear, I think, that three years from now we will still have only one of White, Ng, and Colletti. I have no idea who I'd prefer, but I can't imagine either of the other two being worse than Ned.

2007-09-07 15:55:49
70.   underdog
66 Oh stop. There are plenty of your other Dodger mancrushes in the lineup tonight! Plus, odds are 63 is right and we'll see Andy in there at some point.
2007-09-07 15:57:46
71.   King of the Hobos
62 2005 is a typo, it's actually 2003. And the "winter-meeting draft" is the Rule 5 draft. Of the first 6 draftees, 5 were Pirates (Chris Shelton, Rich Thompson, Frank Brooks, Jeff Bennett, and Jose Bautista). At the time, the Pirates were ridiculed for giving 40 man spots to lesser players and allowing 5 prospects to leave. Ultimately, they only lost Bennett and Shelton.
2007-09-07 15:58:34
72.   Bob Timmermann
68
The estate of George Santayana still wants $50.

If you send me the money, I'll take care of it.

2007-09-07 16:01:35
73.   LogikReader
hahaha.

Let's see, so that would be George Santayana, c/o Bob Timmerman at the LA Library...

2007-09-07 16:01:44
74.   Eric Enders
I was thinking we should give Santayana more like $140 million over six years.
2007-09-07 16:01:55
75.   King of the Hobos
If you thought the Padre/Tomko or Arizona/Wickman combos were intimidating, beware of the new Colorado/Mark Redman combo.
2007-09-07 16:04:00
76.   Icaros
70

It's a combination of Nomar and the fact that White is out of here. I hate everyone in management except Ng and White, and, like Eric points out in 69 , rooting for this team to do well is rooting for Colletti to keep his job.

2007-09-07 16:08:36
77.   D4P
rooting for this team to do well is rooting for Colletti to keep his job

Yep. And on some level, rooting for this team to do well is rooting for Colletti and his philosophy over Depo and his philisophy.

2007-09-07 16:13:44
78.   Eric Enders
Is there really such a thing as a coherent Colletti philosophy? He's been at it nearly two years now and the only patterns I see are "sign famous guys who can't play anymore" and "prospects should be neither seen nor heard."
2007-09-07 16:17:28
79.   blue22
Yet if LA lays an egg the rest of the way, I get the feeling Matt Kemp and his shaky baserunning, and Chad Billingsley's inability to go at hitters will be made scapegoat.

I just doubt that LA missing the playoffs will empower Ned to trust the kids more next year.

2007-09-07 16:18:40
80.   D4P
Colletti philosophy

Or lack thereof. He reminds me of certain other leaders who don't really know a lot themselves and really on advice and "gut"/"common sense" to get by.

2007-09-07 16:19:47
81.   dzzrtRatt
76 , 77 -- I'm going to guess these comments were also from OBL's tape. Do I win?
2007-09-07 16:20:09
82.   King of the Hobos
78 I think that's pretty much it, along with constant tinkering to fulfill those 2 goals.
2007-09-07 16:21:46
83.   D4P
In case it wasn't obvious, the "really" in 80 should have been "rely"
2007-09-07 16:22:37
84.   Icaros
81

? I guess comparing me to the most famous terrorist ever is funny...

2007-09-07 16:22:53
85.   LogikReader
"Just when I thought we were out of mediocrity, they PULL us back in."

Who do I owe for that line?

2007-09-07 16:24:01
86.   Bill Crain
On Ned, Grady, and the batting order:

A leadoff hitter who plays every game gets about 10% of the team's PAs. That's a lot.

Kemp would not be an outstanding leadoff hitter. Neither would Willie Mays, unless he had changed his approach early in his career.

Right now it looks like LaRoche would be fine in the leadoff spot. Loney or Martin as well.

Barry Bonds would have been the greatest leadoff hitter of all time, but that would have meant sacrificing a lot of his RBIs. It's all about Run Element Ratio.

Juan Pierre is the Dodgers' number 8 hitter. I mean right now. It dosen't matter where he goes on the lineup card. Most studies have shown that lineup effects are insignificant. The fact that JP hits in the 2 slot becomes much worse when you got someone like Hillenbrand in the game. Then you got two number 8 guys, neither one justified by their defense, and that's a huge handicap for an offense to overcome, especially if it's also HR-challenged.

The problem with Colletti is not that he can't be successful. Of course he can; some of his moves have turned out very well. Still, it's much harder to get good results if you don't know what you're doing. For example, if you really think Pierre is a top-of-the-order MLB hitter. You got to be lucky.

My objection is that, even when they're lucky, it's just not much fun to cheer for the dumb guys. I suspect that's one reason DT is so high on the young players. It's a way to root for logic and reason. Please, Frank, hang on to Logan White.

Another thing, while I'm on it, why can't Ethier play center? Imagine how much better his numbers would look compared with CFs rather than corner outfielders. I know he's slow, but so is Nick Swisher. I mean why not let him prove he can't do it before you give up on it. Of course that might mean JP has to sit a game or two. Maybe the world would end.

Nevermind.

2007-09-07 16:24:16
87.   SoSG Orel
71 thanks
2007-09-07 16:24:47
88.   natepurcell
Logan White is suppose to be the Dodgers GM. This is going to make me upset.
2007-09-07 16:30:08
89.   Icaros
My objection is that, even when they're lucky, it's just not much fun to cheer for the dumb guys. I suspect that's one reason DT is so high on the young players. It's a way to root for logic and reason.

I think this is very astute, and describes how I've felt the past two seasons.

2007-09-07 16:31:15
90.   Jim Hitchcock
Ethier flying to Frisco in a hot pink disco suit? Yikes!
2007-09-07 16:32:01
91.   Icaros
90

He has five girlfriends, so he can get away with it.

2007-09-07 16:34:33
92.   Bob Timmermann
85
That's parody and allowed under US Copyright Law.
2007-09-07 16:36:19
93.   bhsportsguy
I don't see Logan White being hired as a GM right now, it would be a extremely bold move by both of these franchises.

Also, unless Pittsburgh and or Houston are really going to invest in the draft, why would he go, neither team has shown a willingness to do that.

And, even if they say they will do that, will they stick with a 3-5 year plan and how would they deal with their current product on the field.

Logan White has shown that as a Scouting Director, he and his scouts have the ability to find a higher than normal percentage of really good players in the draft.

That is but what one component of what a GM does and once he takes the GM job, he has to rely on his scouts and Scouting director to handle the bulk of that job.

He could be a good GM but right now, if he is hired, it is going to be based on how good an interview he gives not because he has scouted and signed some pretty good players.

2007-09-07 16:36:44
94.   Bob Timmermann
The NL Central is looking bad tonight.

Mighty bad.

2007-09-07 16:37:28
95.   bhsportsguy
I root for the Dodgers, I don't root for owners, GMs, Scouting Directors or managers.

Players, sure. But the rest is just white noise to me.

2007-09-07 16:37:34
96.   Bob Timmermann
The Marlins top of the second, so far:
M. Cabrera singled to center
- J. Willingham struck out swinging
- M. Jacobs singled to right, M. Cabrera to third
- C. Ross doubled to deep left, M. Cabrera scored, M. Jacobs to third, M. Jacobs scored on left fielder P. Burrell's fielding error
- M. Olivo walked
- B. Kim reached on fielder's choice, M. Olivo and C. Ross scored, B. Kim to second on first baseman R. Howard's throwing error
- H. Ramirez struck out looking
2007-09-07 16:37:59
97.   blue22
94 - Philly is down 4-0 to Florida already too.
2007-09-07 16:38:19
98.   LogikReader
Parody will be the Dodgers in a few years if NedCo gets unleashed.

My biggest fear is the Dodgers become the Oakland Raiders of baseball.

Ok that's a little unfair. The Raiders changed their philosophy somewhat this season. Young coach, younger players, good defense, etc.

2007-09-07 16:38:42
99.   blue22
94 - Actually Cincinnati looks great so far!
2007-09-07 16:40:38
100.   LAT
I think the MSM is catching on to the superior play of the kids and that is the only reason there is any chance of post season play this year. Martin is being recognozed as the best player on the team. At a minimum, Loney is regarded as a solid hitter while Kemp's upside is viewed as unlimited. Finally, Bills is being acknowledged as the only consistant starter right now.

Also we are starting to hear terms like JP and Furcal are having "disappointing" seasons. Nomar has'nt lived "up to expectations". I don't think people will jump on Ned for his desperate PVL moves (like Sweeney, Wells of Hilldebrand) but I think he will take heat for his pre-season signings (JP, Nomar extension, LuGo, Tomko).

In sum, if the Dodgers don't make the post season Ned won't pay the price he should but he won't unscathed either.

P.S. What I wish is that someone in the MSM would acknowledge that its not Tomko or Hendy's fault they stink, its Ned's fault for signing them becasue they stink.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-09-07 16:40:52
101.   Eric Enders
86 "Kemp would not be an outstanding leadoff hitter. Neither would Willie Mays, unless he had changed his approach early in his career."

False. Both Kemp (this year at least) and Mays have OBPs considerably better than the league average. They would be spectacularly good leadoff hitters, actually. Perhaps what you meant is that they would be more valuable elsewhere in the order than batting leadoff. That I would agree with.

2007-09-07 16:41:03
102.   dzzrtRatt
84 It was a reference to a guessing game from the last thread. OBL trying the "help" the Democratic party by reminding everyone that he agreed with their 2006 campaign platform struck me as somewhat of a parallel with Dodger fans rooting for failure because failure would reflect badly on the front office, which we allegedly want to see.

I think rooting for the Dodgers to lose so Ned looks bad is a curious position to take. If they win, doesn't that imply that he's doing something right? Do we really want the peasants to starve in order to stir up a coup against the Czar?

The only desirable prospects Colletti traded were Edwin Jackson, Willy Aybar and Joel Guzman, and all three were both loaded with issues and still are. He has overseen an overhaul of the roster and the lineup, which is now studded with our best prospects. There is no consensus as to whether the remaining prospects yet to be starting are truly ready.

I see a lot of comments like, "OK, that's it, now Colletti has an excuse to trade LaRoche," as if this has been his agenda all along. Where is the evidence for this? I can see hating him for trading LaRoche, but hating him because you believe he will trade LaRoche in the future -- despite zero evidence to support it -- is sort of in the same category as comparing Democrats to terrorists.

I don't like defending Colletti, particularly. He's made some bad moves--Pierre, Proctor for Betemit, Hernandez, Hillenbrand, etc. But he's also made some good ones, precisely the moves about 80 percent of the commenters have advocated. So, LaRoche isn't playing tonight. Big whoop. It wasn't realistic to think that if Nomar could play they were never going to play him again. LaRoche is hitting about .208 at this moment. We're in a pennant race. We shouldn't at least see if Nomar can do better? That's evidence that LaRoche is about to be traded? I don't see it.

2007-09-07 16:41:25
103.   Bluebleeder87
77

on principle alone... ugh

2007-09-07 16:42:27
104.   King of the Hobos
Does White have any connection to the Astros? In Pittsburgh he'd be back with old DePo Braintrust member Roy Smith, though I have no idea if the two men are fans of each other.

And to venture slightly off topic, Roy Smith stepped down from the Ned/McCourt Dodgers to rejoin the Littlefield/Nutting Pirates? Why?

2007-09-07 16:43:02
105.   bhsportsguy
95 I think that comes from having 2 managers and 2 GMs for the first 20+ years of following the team. You get used to the same people and you know that short of death, they are not going anywhere, so why bother worrying about it.

The string of owners, GMs, and managers that have followed Peter, Tommy and Fred, just made realize that those guys will come and go but the team will always be here.

So why get upset about, if White gets the job, good for him, he will find out that it easier accepting platitudes for young players who have not been tested under the glare of MLB stadium spotlight than for how his team performs day after day with a sour press and tepid fan support.

2007-09-07 16:43:47
106.   Eric Enders
93 "Also, unless Pittsburgh and or Houston are really going to invest in the draft, why would he go, neither team has shown a willingness to do that."

In fairness, I think Pittsburgh has shown a willingness to invest in the draft, with the exception of this year. It's just that they have shown an extraordinary inability to invest wisely in the draft. This is why I think the Pirates would be the more attractive destination for White.

2007-09-07 16:45:53
107.   LAT
102. I am going to predict that Nomar will have a decent to good offensive night. (He has to at some point right?)
2007-09-07 16:47:44
108.   underdog
So I guess in the time I was away working, Logan White was hired as GM and Andy LaRoche was traded. Did I miss anything else? Just want to make sure I'm up to date!
2007-09-07 16:48:04
109.   underdog
(Astros GM, that is.)
2007-09-07 16:48:05
110.   bhsportsguy
106 You are right, but Logan White is going to want to know if the right pick is a high school pitcher, is ownership going to sign off on a multi-million dollar bonus?
2007-09-07 16:48:38
111.   bhsportsguy
108 No Dodger sightings in the City.
2007-09-07 16:50:30
112.   Bob Timmermann
111
What is this "City" with a capital C you speak of?

Capital City?
Temple City?
Carson City?

2007-09-07 16:51:14
113.   Bill Crain
101
Bill James has written on this at length, specifically in an old article on Rickey Henderson. His simulations indicated, IIRC, that a team with Mays at the top of the order wouldn't score nearly as many runs as one with Henderson, and not many more than one with Steve Sax.

Interestingly, Ricky batting third wasn't much inferior to Mays batting third, which says something about the importance of OBP.

I guess now I'm gonna have to dig up the study and see if my memory is any good.

2007-09-07 16:51:55
114.   Eric Enders
111 Make sure to keep an eye out for Robin Hood, Nacho Libre, and what Tony Jackson described as "a fat suit resembling the torso of a large woman in a bra and panties."
2007-09-07 16:53:37
115.   dzzrtRatt
104 I never heard the Roy Smith news. When did that happen?

Does anyone know how old Logan White is? If he thinks Houston is his last opportunity to become a GM, he might be tempted (if it's even offered). But my sense is, he's got a long career still ahead of him, and he might consider it worth waiting for a better opportunity with a well-funded team; or with the Dodgers, if he thinks Colletti is going to be fired.

To pick up my last comment, McCourt says he wants all his management to be "on the same page." I have to assume this is true. So I have to assume the decision to hold onto LaRoche and other prospects, despite players like Teixiera being dangled in front of us reflects McCourt's philosophy.

The PVLs have all been Band-Aids. A "no-confidence" vote in LaRoche would have been Ned trying to get Troy Glaus. Which he didn't do. Hillenbrand is a journeyman bum, and if Nomar's healthy and/or if LaRoche starts hitting, I doubt we'll see much more of him.

2007-09-07 16:54:17
116.   bhsportsguy
112 I think for you, it is in a place known as "Parts Unknown".

OT- So how hot do you think it will be tomorrow at the Rose Bowl?

2007-09-07 16:55:05
117.   scooplew
86 Mays batted leadoff for the National League in eight All-Star games -- 1958, 1960 (1), 1960 (2), 1965, 1966, 1968, 1970 and 1971. As a a Dodgers fan, this was a rare and wonderful opportunity to root for him. In those eight games he was .357, .400, .567, and went 10 for 28. I think that Mays would have a great leadoff man, but as in the case of Soriano it would have cut down greatly on his RBI.
2007-09-07 16:55:06
118.   Eric Enders
113 Fair enough. But saying "Mays would not be as good a leadoff hitter as Rickey Henderson" is not nearly the same thing as saying "Mays would be a lousy leadoff hitter."

That's sort of like saying Jimmie Foxx was a lousy hitter because he wasn't as good as Babe Ruth. I mean, c'mon, he's still Jimmie Freaking Foxx.

2007-09-07 16:57:45
119.   King of the Hobos
115 Smith returned to Pittsburgh less than a month after leaving the Dodgers.

http://tinyurl.com/2p69x4

2007-09-07 16:58:54
120.   oldfan60
I think Ned gets too little credit for not trading the core prospects. However, no question I would like Logan for GM. I don't see it happening here. I think he would consider the Houston or Pirates job as a challenge to build a great farm system.
2007-09-07 17:00:37
121.   Bill Crain
118
I don't think I'd say Mays would be lousy at anything except maybe choosing his godsons, but yeah, I take your point.

I'll let Kemp lead off if you'll let Ethier play center field.

2007-09-07 17:01:16
122.   King of the Hobos
115 White played in the minors from '84-'86, so I would guess he's about 40, so plenty of time left to find a better opening.
2007-09-07 17:01:22
123.   Eric Enders
Smith was a DePo guy from Oakland, remember. Perhaps he was asked not to stay, just more politely than DePo was.
2007-09-07 17:05:26
124.   Eric Enders
121 That was funny. And yeah, Ethier can play center whenever he wants.
2007-09-07 17:05:26
125.   King of the Hobos
123 I do not believe Smith ever was employed by Oakland, and if he was, it was before DePo/Beane. He was with the Pirates from 1998 to 2004, the Dodgers 2004-2006, and back to the Pirates ever since.
2007-09-07 17:05:46
126.   Bill Crain
120

I think Ned gets too much credit for not trading the prospects.

What kind of moron would have given up Loney, Ethier, Broxton and Kershaw in a trade for Mark Texiera?

Even Plaschke could see that was silly.

2007-09-07 17:06:04
127.   Bob Timmermann
116
The weather has been great in Pasadena the last couple days.

I haven't switched on the AC since Wednesday.

I also sit on the shady side.

2007-09-07 17:06:14
128.   das411
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

We love Pat Burrell again! 4-3 Marlins now!

2007-09-07 17:07:33
129.   Eric Enders
125 Um, yikes. My bad. I could have sworn he was one of Beane's scouts.
2007-09-07 17:10:05
130.   Robert Daeley
"What kind of moron would have given up Loney, Ethier, Broxton and Kershaw in a trade for Mark Texiera?"

Nothing like some well-reasoned logic to make a point.

2007-09-07 17:10:21
131.   Eric Enders
Turns out Smith was a teammate of Beane's for two years. I don't know where I got the idea he used to scout for him, though.
2007-09-07 17:11:44
132.   underdog
126 Um, the Braves' GM?

112 "Capital City, yay! Fourth Street and 'D'! Yeah! Once you get a whiff of it, you'll never want to roam. "

Nope, didn't see any Dodgers downtown, even in the Westfield mall which is filled with babes.

2007-09-07 17:13:58
133.   Jim Hitchcock
132 Think you need to check the discos.
2007-09-07 17:20:38
134.   underdog
132 I mean, where more of possible future Andre Ethier g/fs would be likely to hang out. I don't deign venture into discos myself.
2007-09-07 17:21:55
135.   trainwreck
132
I love that Japanese restaurant in the food court at Westfield.

Okay, maybe restaurant is not the right word.

2007-09-07 17:23:30
136.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

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