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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with
Is the way the Dodgers limit the playing time of their young players at the outset of their careers an actual contributor to their ultimate success? Or are the Dodgers just missing out on opportunities to cash in on their prospect fortune?
Once promoted, Russell Martin was thrown into the starting lineup without hesitation, but James Loney, Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier and Andy LaRoche (not to mention Chad Billingsley) each have had to claw their way into their starting roles. We know why Martin was treated differently - the Dodgers really had no other catcher to turn to - but would Loney et al (and, in turn, the Dodgers) have suffered if they had gotten the Martin treatment? It's a valid question, though I have my own suspicions about the answer.
LaRoche is the person in this group whose playing time is most in question right now. The occasional day off for LaRoche, who only recently suffered from disk problems in his back and may still be learning to manage them, doesn't bother me. But when he doesn't start for two days in a row, one has to wonder about the rationale.
Is any other third baseman on the Dodgers better than LaRoche at:
Perhaps the Dodgers are afraid to break in a player during the final month of a pennant race. But LaRoche had his first taste of the bigs in the calmer months early this season. In his short career, whenever he has struggled in a game, he has bounced back - sometimes in the very same game.
It may be that whoever plays third base for the Dodgers will not make or break their playoff hopes, so I'm not sure how much I should care about the short remainder of LaRoche's 2007 season specifically. What I do care about is that I suspect that there is a lesson to be learned from the Martin/Kemp/Loney/Ethier/Billingsley examples. And I'm just wondering if the Dodgers have learned the right one.
* * *
Loney credited deposed Dodger hitting coach Eddie Murray for some improvements in his batting, according to Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise.
Loney has made small changes in his swing since being recalled in June. He uses his hands and hips to generate power and has a short swing -- techniques he credits former hitting coach Eddie Murray for drilling in him. Of keeping his swing consistent, Loney said, "It comes with experience."
* * *
Today's game:
And, just so you know, when I read this -- Sam DC has already been cast as David Strathairn -- I choked up a little bit.
And this -- There were a couple of people I seriously thought were making their last trip up the stairs. -- really had me missing Six Feet Under.
Will the player most in need of a day off, Furcal, finally get it?
While I would prefer David Strathairn, I like Fred McMurray as a choice too, so I'm OK.
I haven't heard or read anything about LaRoche's back. I assume that the Dodgers just prefer Garciaparra a bit more at this point.
C. 1. Russell Martin-128 Games (13 ahead of McCann)
SS. T4. Rafael Furcal-131 Games
CF. 1. Juan Pierre-140 Games (3 ahead of Cameron)
2B. 5. Jeff Kent-120 Games (Leader @ 137 games)
LF. T5. Luis Gonzalez-117 Games (Leader @ 138 games)
If Furcal and Kent don't spend some time nursing some ouchies, then they would be nearer to the top.
At 1B, Loney has almost caught Nomar in games started (James with 65, Nomar with 66). The main difference between the two is that while their total chances are about equal (Loney has 3 more), Loney has twice as many assists, 52-27.
3B has been revolving door, Wilson Betemit still leads the club with 39 starts, Garciaparra has 34, Tony Abreu with 21 and Hillebrand and LaRoche have 17 starts each.
Ethier has the most starts at RF (85) and Matt Kemp now has 52 games started there, so they have been the two main right fielders. Andre also has 18 starts in LF.
Chances he actually realized what the joke is?
I'll say 40 percent - though I consider that real generous.
Yes, I actually wear it outside the house sometimes.
Was Sept 06 so far away that we can't still be Nomar and DT fans?
I remember vividly the days of Koufax, Drysdale, Podres, etc etc, that doesn't make the handling of our pitching staff any easier to take, but it does make for nice memories...
Why? Why?
Yes, if the Dodgers handled their pitching staff like the days of Koufax, Drysdale, and Podres, we could look forward to all of them having careers end early with crippling injuries.
But who cares? We still won.
I remember that Valenzuela kid, I thought he would pitch forever. And what about the Hershiser guy? He was indestructible!
Ned just has crazy insecurities about playing the young guys. He thinks he will get blamed if we play our young guys and let them develop.
Don't worry Bob, I have seen your favorite movie, I Heart Huckabees.
That was not my point. You can be a Nomar fan and a DT fan at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.
I had an existential crisis during that movie. It was of the nature of "What kind of person am I to waste money on this pretentious drivel?"
Kemp was held back so many times - it's possible we might be several games ahead in the standings if he had been started along with Ethier another 10 or 15 times, instead of constantly sitting one of them in favor of Gonzo during his extended slump since July, or playing Pierre every day which is evidently something that cannot be altered. But credit where it's due: Pierre has actually been holding his own the past month, and - who knows? - it might actually have been a good thing not to force Kemp to try to produce every day. Like you, Jon, I doubt that, but it's something that bears consideration, as you say.
In the case of LaRoche, and perhaps also Hu for the few minutes he's been allowed to play, it's pretty clear that there is some rookie over-eagerness, swinging too often, trying too hard. Probably good to ease him in, not shoving him out there every day. But it certainly seems odd that when he does begin to look comfortable out there, and has just made a great double, he's taken out for two games.
Probably we here tend to be "wishful thinkers", hoping so strongly that the kids will make good that we just assume they will. But management sure seem to be the opposite: overcautious with the rookies, giving vets the benefit of every doubt, giving rookies the lack of same, at the expense of losing the season. It makes no sense not to give LaRoche, and Hu too, more chances.
I think that we may now have seen the last of Hillenbrand as a starter - he's hopefully just there for backup now. Nomar will undoubtedly be given the benefit of two more starts no matter what - when there's no option now of minor league rehab starts. I hope that doesn't lose us two games - if everyone else is producing, I guess he can be carried. But if he flubs out both times - swinging and going out on the first pitch 0 for 4 both times as he's done so far - I hope that will be the end of Nomar as starter and LaRoche will get his chance.
Will Furcal be rested a couple of times with Hu now available? Probably not, unless he also shows too many defensive errors.
That is the best explanation yet.
I hope he cleanses him self from that form of thought little by little.
Actions tell the story. It always has.
Abreu, SS
Pierre, CF
Kemp, RF
Kent, 2B
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
Ethier, LF
Nomar, 3B
Penny, P
Interesting to see Abreu at short.
I do not believe so.
Of course, Koufax came up with the Dodgers in 1955 just because he had to because of his contract and he didn't see anything approximating regular action until 1959.
However, I am wondering which young pitchers right now the Dodgers are hesitant to use. The use of Billingsley in the bullpen at the beginning of the year is pretty common among teams hoping to hold down the innings for their young stars.
The Orioles during the glory days under Earl Weaver routinely did that.
I don't think that Meloan has shown yet that in a high leverage situation that he's ready.
Abreu, SS (day off for Furcal)
Pierre, CF (batting .333 since the start of August)
Kemp, RF (his average is 5th in baseball over the last three weeks)
Kent, 2B
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
Ethier, LF
Nomar, 3B
Penny, P
_____________________________
No Furcal
This was the last time.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS199609260.shtml
Nomar has had 25 at bats in 8th hole in his career spanning 5233 at bats. He has 2 hits from the position.
It has been talked about over and over about Juan Pierre and Luis Gonzalez but they were signed and short of injury, they were going to play. At the All-Star break, Gonzalez had this line .294/.384/.471 and while given how well Matt Kemp has played since his call-up, and I can't point to Luis and say that was a weak point in the first half.
Once Loney took over in June, he has played the vast majority of games at first base.
Outside of Kemp and Loney, who else was supposed to play? Andy, maybe, but he was hurt at the time he could have played with no one looking over his shoulder.
Other than that, I don't know what more anyone could have expected, again given the roster at the beginning of the year.
However as soon as Nomar gets a hit expect him right back in the 5 hole.
No, they could/should have been benched for non-performance.
Everytime Ned has moved a veteran to an unaccustomed spot in the lineup he very quickly has reverted them back even though nothing really changed in the approach.
35 The lowest Nomar has started this season is 7th, which he did once (June 27 @ AZ). He last started in the 8th spot in his rookie year of 1996, which he did 6 times.
34 This is Furcal's first day off since May 26.
In re: psychoanalyzing Ned - there are worse things we could be doing this morning, like watching New England vs the Jets or Philly against the Packers. Feh.
Toycannon -- I guess my comment read as critical in a way that I really didn't intend. I was genuinely wondering if the guy got the Ghame Over joke because it is so totally obscure -- Yhency has had his injuries and PT limits and is just not a recognizable star and has only seen limited closing action and that was a long time ago.
I thought it was a great encounter and wasn't t at all trying to say something like "Nomar fans aren't real Dodger fans," which really isn't the sort of comment I'm prone to making.
Pierre has done what he was signed to do.
Gonzalez's starts have dropped, maybe not as much as some would like but it has become a 3 OF/ 2 OF spot rotation.
Should Juan sit sometimes, sure but he was not and is not going to be benched.
My mistake, I thought you were wearing a Dodger Thoughts T-Shirt, not a Ghame Over T-Shirt.
But the mindset in the reserve clause days was to just wring out as many innings as you could get from a pitcher and then toss him aside when he wasn't useful. Then go get a new one from the minors.
Not a lot of teams really cared about the health of their players unless they were super-duper stars like Joe DiMaggio or Ted Williams.
The Cardinals, in the Rickey era, were one of the few teams that had any semblance of a medical team.
Also until the 1980s, pitchers and managers believed it was somewhat more "manly" to throw a complete game.
Don't people remember how much people got on Chan Ho Park's case for going a long time without a complete game.
Brad Penny has no complete games this season and I doubt that any but the old-fogiest of us really cares.
Ever since Kemp took over the third spot in the batting order, that definitely seems to be the case.
That was a good draft for third baseman.
Gordon
Zimmerman
Braun
Bell
Kemp 19
Ethier 18
Gonzo 13
In the Dodgers past 17 games, Gonzo has only played two complete games. In the games he starts, he almost always comes out for a defensive replacement later in the game. This is about as good a distribution of playing time that we could have realistically hoped.
That form of thought is still alive & kicking on sunday leagues across California & most likely across the states.
I care. Really. I loved watching the pitchers struggle until the end. Watching Fernando work his way out of trouble was something I enjoyed. Did it shorten his career, probably, but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it. Orel's and Drysdales streak wouldn't have meant much if it was 10 games of 6 shutout innings as opposed to 5 & 6 complete game shutouts. Old foogy is I.
I hate the closer era. What isn't amazing about Gagne and Saito isn't that they are dominating but that more pitchers can't be dominant for one bloody inning. One inning people. Why is it such a big deal? But it is, countless pitchers have been unable to master the art of getting 3 outs.
Teams were not then, nor are they now, altruistic. They are in the business of making money. Winning as many games as they can equals more money. (No matter what you think of the Dodgers this year.)
Look at what Tommy Lasorda did with his pitchers in the 1970s and 1980s. Although we remember Niedenfuer giving up a home run to Clark, but earlier in his career, he threw very hard and was a dominating presence.
65
There really aren't any teams that care to pick up complete games. We may have our first season where a team has none.
We have a southpaw waiting who might be a better fit.
The writers at the time shortened it.
"Leo never met ...." when a nice guy did finish 1st.
67 Thanks. That's the kind of supply/demand reasoning that makes some sense of what I found curious. Still, one cannot have a stockpile of the genuinely great pitchers. The Gibson and Koufax families didn't produce any more HOF sons. You'd have thought the clubs would have treated their top aces more carefully.
Pedro's so good, I can enjoy watching him without wanting to stick a fork in my eye thinking about what could have been.
I'll be around.
It's just such a nice treat to watch him pitch, but I must admit I shut down the part of my brain that remembers he was once a Dodger.
It's 6-2 Bucs after two.
The Steve Trachsel Show may be put on the shelf along with other shows like the Mark Hendrickson Comedy Hour and the Brett Tomko Super Terrific Quiz Show.
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/wrHG
As far as 3B, while I agree about never starting Hillenbrand again, the team is not going to bench Nomar for the rest of the season, since he is on this team next year, and they can't just make him persona non-grata. And besides, LaRoche has really done nothing to warrant playing everyday at this point.
I just don't understand why some people seem to want an all-rookie lineup. The team has been playing well lately and veterans like LuGo and Ramon Martinez have made positive contributions.
And, nobody has mentioned the fact the LuGo basically won the game yesterday with his HR, and yet is not playing today. If that happened with Kemp or Ethier, there would be a holy tumult, as my old SS teacher Dr. Neirman used to say.
You know they burned people at the stake during the Reformation for holding ideas like that.
I think this lineup is about as good as it gets for us, with Nomar 8th, and Kemp and Ethier in the outfield. Maybe for whatever reason, LaRoche is pressing too much when he plays. But if Nomar sucks today, I think LaRoche will start Tues.
With Wells looking good, and hopefully Loaiza doing the same - to go along with Bills, Penny and Lowe our rotation is probably the best in the NL.
I think we can go 5-1 on the upcoming homestand, and be a playoff team. And with Broxton and Saito, we could even win it all!
Even with Gonzo's HR, his seasonal numbers are slightly worse (maybe close to equal) than Ethier, and they are no match for Kemp.
Nomar has done nothing to warrant playing everyday, either. He has had 654 PAs since the 2006 all-star break, and has hit .261/.313/.375. He's finished.
I finished my coffee fortunately.
I'm still slogging through the Ms-Tigers game because it's in HD. But Seattle leads 13-5. However, Felix Hernandez looks like a young Brett Tomko now.
He's either the first or second ranked third base prospect in baseball. That warrants playing time. What has Nomar done to deserve to start? Consistently stink?
There he stands, he can go no further.
And the little children all began to weep.
So the argument here is age? Nomar is older, therefore better?
LaRoche started 4 of 5 games before Nomar came back. The worry is that LaRoche will no longer play half-time, and will only occasionally get the call at 3rd base.
Why are you [ToyCannon] attributing line-up positions to Ned?
Roberts
Frandsen
Winn
Bonds
Klesko
Molina
Feliz
Vizquel
Cain
Sorry for coming in late but with the decrease in complete games and with pitchers throwing fewer innings and fewer pitches per game has there been any signicant drop in injuries to players? As I see it, the injuries have continued, but players have so many more options to consider after the injury, namely, numerous reconstructive surgeries that they are given more opportunities to continue their careers after a significant injury. Tommy John surgery is almost common place. How many careers would have extended into their late 30's and early 40's with today's medicine?
& a random guy in L.A. giggles at that quote.
Don't forget, in July and August everyone was complaining that Meloan wasn't getting called up, when it is clear now that he isn't ready. That certainly makes the Proctor trade a little more understandable.
perplexed the powers that be and they are taking a bit of time to reassess his role.
I think my cynical nature is known, but even I was unaware of that poetical bent revealed in alliteration.
Willie Mays
Frank "Wildfire" Schulte
Granderson
http://tinyurl.com/2n2dx6
Jimmy Rollins is 3 triples away from also joining the club.
Good use of the nickname there.
And yes, we should be thanking our lucky stars any time David Wells contributes anything.
It's a coin flip that you'll win 60% of the time versus one you'll win 40% of the time. Sure, it's entirely possible that you can be successful with the 40% coin, but there's no reason to choose it.
I was just trying to light a fire under him.
For the longest time, I was convinced Jimenez would be better than Soriano. I wonder how much the car crash / neck injury derailed his career.
I thought limiting Billingsley's innings was a good idea. Starting Hendrickson and Tomko wasn't the best replacement however.
Maybe they could have turned to Billingsley as a starter sooner than June 21.
4 GS, 15.1 IP, 13 H, 17 ER, 11 BB, 18 K, 5 HR
San Francisco is a prime place to get put on Orange Alert.
I think the Rockies pitchers aren't as good this year. But that's just a guess. Cook has been injured a lot.
13-13 tie, going into overtime.
Stand down.
Nats move into a tie for the #12 spot in the NL.
That could have been a return throw from Martin.
Penny's fastball was in the 90-93 mph range.
If baseball were played in a vacuum, all the players would die.
That's not good for the box office.
I don't know about you, but I've never been fond of vacuums.
At least you made top-20. I'm not sure I was even an "Other receiving votes".
Seriously though, the altitudes of all the other major league parks isn't as extreme as Denver. Atlanta and Phoenix I believe are the only other two cities that top 1000 feet.
Normally I use subject-verb agreement, but I won't be tied down to such antiquated notions anymore.
As for the vacuum thing, give them space suits. But I see your point.
Don't patronize me.
But the sea-level teams don't get messed up to the same degree that Denver does.
Unless the Dodgers are playing in a team that's a mile below the surface of the earth.
But I'm not a physicist. Merely just a sciolist.
Icaros doesn't like Jinxy, so I guess it's time to move on.
See: The Giants lineup everyday, and Barry Bonds.
No Ankiel or Duncan today.
The outfield is Schumaker, Taguchi, and Ludwick.
The infield is Pujols, Cairo, Ryan, and Branyan.
Kelly Stinnett is catching.
How about we stop running him now that he's nursing a knee injury and starting 375 games this season!
Andy LaRoche, your future is calling.
Heh.
Scott Hairston of the Padres got credit for a game played despite not having a PA or playing on defense or pinch-running as he was at bat when the last out was made on the bases. The Padres took him out for the relief pitcher the next inning.
This would be really frustrating to me if I were playing.
Eventually it will become like the NCAA tournament. We'll have automatic qualifiers to achieve geographic balance.
Connector will be chosen to represent Israel.
Those are the "power schools". They will get multiple bids. Sort of like the ACC.
However, Cain is now down to 13 pitches/inning. That's a pace for 117 pitches in 9. I'm guess I'm just trying to say his efficiency is good.
There was another guy from Hawai'i who posted here, but he got mad at me, and said I showed him no aloha.
I assumed that's not a good thing.
That big expansion in right has cost the D's dearly today vs. any other park.
Game chat can continue in this thread.
"I've thought about it and I want to play for the Dodgers next season," said Saito
"I'll let my agent handle the contract," Saito said. "Last year, I hadn't talked to my family about returning. I've already had that conversation this year. So if the Dodgers want me to play, I want to play."
"Last year, I was really a rookie," he said. "It was my first year in the States and I didn't know the stadiums and the players. This year, I don't feel like that. I'm still the same pitcher as last year with my style. I haven't changed my approach to the hitters. I can't tell why I've been better this year. Every time I'm on the mound, my mind-set is to attach the hitters."
Cairo actually tripled.
Buying a ticket does not give you a license to be a jerk. If a player thinks a spectator is being abusive, he can ask for stadium security to remove the fan.
The stadium operator has the right to kick out anybody for just about any reason.
Federer may lose first set of U.S. Open. This one is gonna go to the wire. Djokovic is a serious contender.
Novak is no djok.
However, he was serving 6-5, 40-0, and ended up losing the game. It's now in a tie-break.
Announcer says--Martins got catchers legs as he goes into third.
Matt hits a homer off of Meredith to make it 4-2 in the bottom of the 8th.
The game in Arizona should end in another four hours.
Ok, Tony, make Raffy trade bait.
left elbow= no problemo.
Hide the children.
As I look at it:
Good, bad, OK.
Only one (Kevin Elster) has hit 3 HR in a game in SF.
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/8gha
I could say more but I better not.
http://tinyurl.com/2cuxhh
It's not going to be Beimel/Winn again, is it?
The Mets also used just nine players in a 5-inning game.
Just stand the girl up. That always works well and ensures that you won't run into a similar situation again.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MON/MON199304220.shtml
http://xkcd.com/306/
Interesting choice, given how poor a year Durham has had.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/XEte
1) Rest Broxton today completely, or
2) Start him off in the 8th inning
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/WTbh
Then Broxton to start the 8th, with hopefully at least one insurance run.
Little's gone off the rails a little. Maybe he's not up for a full season. I don't remember so many dumb decisions earlier in the year.
But I am still not down, good times are ahead.
Oh, wait, that was Nomar? He'll be in the lineup Tuesday.
But at this point, I don't think you go to Broxton next time; 3 HR in his last 4 outings suggest he's just not throwing well.
I took a walk, knowing it was over when Penny was removed, but I was confused--did he actually want to come out.
I was initially not totally down on Grady's pitching moves, but they may have become so neurotic, he is past saving.
But I guess at least, Penny did not get the loss.
Man, I'm depressed now.
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