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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Does the Management Make the Men?
2007-09-09 08:53
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Is the way the Dodgers limit the playing time of their young players at the outset of their careers an actual contributor to their ultimate success? Or are the Dodgers just missing out on opportunities to cash in on their prospect fortune?

Once promoted, Russell Martin was thrown into the starting lineup without hesitation, but James Loney, Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier and Andy LaRoche (not to mention Chad Billingsley) each have had to claw their way into their starting roles. We know why Martin was treated differently - the Dodgers really had no other catcher to turn to - but would Loney et al (and, in turn, the Dodgers) have suffered if they had gotten the Martin treatment? It's a valid question, though I have my own suspicions about the answer.

LaRoche is the person in this group whose playing time is most in question right now. The occasional day off for LaRoche, who only recently suffered from disk problems in his back and may still be learning to manage them, doesn't bother me. But when he doesn't start for two days in a row, one has to wonder about the rationale.

Is any other third baseman on the Dodgers better than LaRoche at:

  • getting on base? No.
  • hitting with power? No. LaRoche has yet to hit his first major-league home run, but he projects to be a better power hitter at this stage than any of his current rivals. In the meantime, he has shown as much doubles power as any other Dodger third baseman.
  • fielding? Ramon Martinez, and perhaps Tony Abreu - but he hasn't gotten any starts at third base since returning to the team, either.

    Perhaps the Dodgers are afraid to break in a player during the final month of a pennant race. But LaRoche had his first taste of the bigs in the calmer months early this season. In his short career, whenever he has struggled in a game, he has bounced back - sometimes in the very same game.

    It may be that whoever plays third base for the Dodgers will not make or break their playoff hopes, so I'm not sure how much I should care about the short remainder of LaRoche's 2007 season specifically. What I do care about is that I suspect that there is a lesson to be learned from the Martin/Kemp/Loney/Ethier/Billingsley examples. And I'm just wondering if the Dodgers have learned the right one.

    * * *

    Loney credited deposed Dodger hitting coach Eddie Murray for some improvements in his batting, according to Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise.

    Loney has made small changes in his swing since being recalled in June. He uses his hands and hips to generate power and has a short swing -- techniques he credits former hitting coach Eddie Murray for drilling in him. Of keeping his swing consistent, Loney said, "It comes with experience."

    * * *

    Today's game:

    Gameday

    Retro Gameday

  • Comments (405)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2007-09-09 09:10:36
    1.   Sam DC
    Well let me just say I'm glad I read all the through to comment 495 before I started posted in anger in the last thread!

    And, just so you know, when I read this -- Sam DC has already been cast as David Strathairn -- I choked up a little bit.

    And this -- There were a couple of people I seriously thought were making their last trip up the stairs. -- really had me missing Six Feet Under.

    2007-09-09 09:14:53
    2.   bearlurker
    I missed much of the discussion yesterday so I don't know if there was speculation that LaRoche sat two days in a row due to his back?

    Will the player most in need of a day off, Furcal, finally get it?

    2007-09-09 09:31:33
    3.   Bob Timmermann
    1
    While I would prefer David Strathairn, I like Fred McMurray as a choice too, so I'm OK.
    2007-09-09 09:34:01
    4.   Bob Timmermann
    2
    I haven't heard or read anything about LaRoche's back. I assume that the Dodgers just prefer Garciaparra a bit more at this point.
    2007-09-09 09:46:09
    5.   Bluebleeder87
    La Roche is just rusting away, I'll be pleasantly surprised if he plays today.
    2007-09-09 09:56:57
    6.   bhsportsguy
    NL Leaders in Games Started By Position

    C. 1. Russell Martin-128 Games (13 ahead of McCann)
    SS. T4. Rafael Furcal-131 Games
    CF. 1. Juan Pierre-140 Games (3 ahead of Cameron)
    2B. 5. Jeff Kent-120 Games (Leader @ 137 games)
    LF. T5. Luis Gonzalez-117 Games (Leader @ 138 games)

    If Furcal and Kent don't spend some time nursing some ouchies, then they would be nearer to the top.

    At 1B, Loney has almost caught Nomar in games started (James with 65, Nomar with 66). The main difference between the two is that while their total chances are about equal (Loney has 3 more), Loney has twice as many assists, 52-27.

    3B has been revolving door, Wilson Betemit still leads the club with 39 starts, Garciaparra has 34, Tony Abreu with 21 and Hillebrand and LaRoche have 17 starts each.

    Ethier has the most starts at RF (85) and Matt Kemp now has 52 games started there, so they have been the two main right fielders. Andre also has 18 starts in LF.

    2007-09-09 10:00:17
    7.   Sam DC
    Wore my Ghame Over shirt to Eastern Market this morn. Guy in a Nomar jersey came up to me and said "that's awesome!!" And walked off.

    Chances he actually realized what the joke is?

    I'll say 40 percent - though I consider that real generous.

    Yes, I actually wear it outside the house sometimes.

    2007-09-09 10:00:50
    8.   trainwreck
    I am still surprised that DT seems to be made up of posters that look like really hot women.
    2007-09-09 10:01:09
    9.   Vishal
    yeah, i don't see how playing laroche once a week helps his development.
    2007-09-09 10:03:28
    10.   ToyCannon
    7
    Was Sept 06 so far away that we can't still be Nomar and DT fans?
    2007-09-09 10:04:25
    11.   Howard Fox
    9 nothing anyone can do about it, they love the older guys, and think they all still "have it"
    2007-09-09 10:06:53
    12.   Howard Fox
    10 great memories all, like the Gibson home run, but that doesn't help how the youngsters and the team in general is handled today...

    I remember vividly the days of Koufax, Drysdale, Podres, etc etc, that doesn't make the handling of our pitching staff any easier to take, but it does make for nice memories...

    2007-09-09 10:07:53
    13.   NorCal-Dodger
    The lack of a firm commitment to play our best players, who happens to be our youth, is maddening. Ned showed restraint at the 'trading deadline' not to sell out our fututre. But Ned and Grady needs to realize our future is now. Granted, we experienced a 'Geritol' moment yesterday, continue to start, Loney, Kemp, Ethier, and for heaven sakes allow LaRoche to play, give Furcal a day off, can put in Hu, Valdez, or Abreu.
    2007-09-09 10:08:26
    14.   Bob Timmermann
    I had put down my coffee before I noticed that D'Angelo Jimenez is leading off for the Nats.

    Why? Why?

    2007-09-09 10:10:52
    15.   Bluebleeder87
    Pretty nice, Padro Martinez is pitching right now on SNY to see whats doing with him.
    2007-09-09 10:11:29
    16.   Bob Timmermann
    12
    Yes, if the Dodgers handled their pitching staff like the days of Koufax, Drysdale, and Podres, we could look forward to all of them having careers end early with crippling injuries.

    But who cares? We still won.

    I remember that Valenzuela kid, I thought he would pitch forever. And what about the Hershiser guy? He was indestructible!

    2007-09-09 10:12:32
    17.   Bluebleeder87
    my season starts today & there's notching like watching a master at work...
    2007-09-09 10:12:43
    18.   trainwreck
    13
    Ned just has crazy insecurities about playing the young guys. He thinks he will get blamed if we play our young guys and let them develop.
    2007-09-09 10:13:33
    19.   trainwreck
    It is just crazy, Sabean veteran love.
    2007-09-09 10:15:29
    20.   NorCal-Dodger
    18 Probably still brainwashed by Brian Sabean.
    2007-09-09 10:15:58
    21.   Bob Timmermann
    When did we all become experts in the psychoanalysis of Ned Colletti?
    2007-09-09 10:18:07
    22.   fanerman
    21 Shortly after we all graduated summa cum laude from GM school.
    2007-09-09 10:18:23
    23.   NorCal-Dodger
    21 We just 'analyzed' the season so far and realized that Ned is 'psycho' in his belief in in washed up veterans.
    2007-09-09 10:18:55
    24.   trainwreck
    21
    Don't worry Bob, I have seen your favorite movie, I Heart Huckabees.
    2007-09-09 10:19:02
    25.   ToyCannon
    12
    That was not my point. You can be a Nomar fan and a DT fan at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.
    2007-09-09 10:19:15
    26.   NorCal-Dodger
    And we all slept at a Holiday Inn Express.
    2007-09-09 10:19:32
    27.   Howard Fox
    16 you are right, so lets coddle our pitchers and what do we get...Dreifort, Wolf, Schmidt, Brazoban, Gagne...wait...lets just win now...a lot of pitchers are just going to go down regardless...
    2007-09-09 10:19:57
    28.   Bob Timmermann
    24
    I had an existential crisis during that movie. It was of the nature of "What kind of person am I to waste money on this pretentious drivel?"
    2007-09-09 10:20:03
    29.   berkowit28
    The major significant application of good sense against management's usual tendencies to favor veterans was switching Nomar to 3rd base to allow Loney to play 1st every day. That was rather unexpected, and a Good Thing. Loney has been the one youngster to get a fair shake this year (though we cannot forget how long it took them to bring him up from Vegas in the first place). He has also been the one to make fewest rookie mistakes, which may partly account for it.

    Kemp was held back so many times - it's possible we might be several games ahead in the standings if he had been started along with Ethier another 10 or 15 times, instead of constantly sitting one of them in favor of Gonzo during his extended slump since July, or playing Pierre every day which is evidently something that cannot be altered. But credit where it's due: Pierre has actually been holding his own the past month, and - who knows? - it might actually have been a good thing not to force Kemp to try to produce every day. Like you, Jon, I doubt that, but it's something that bears consideration, as you say.

    In the case of LaRoche, and perhaps also Hu for the few minutes he's been allowed to play, it's pretty clear that there is some rookie over-eagerness, swinging too often, trying too hard. Probably good to ease him in, not shoving him out there every day. But it certainly seems odd that when he does begin to look comfortable out there, and has just made a great double, he's taken out for two games.

    Probably we here tend to be "wishful thinkers", hoping so strongly that the kids will make good that we just assume they will. But management sure seem to be the opposite: overcautious with the rookies, giving vets the benefit of every doubt, giving rookies the lack of same, at the expense of losing the season. It makes no sense not to give LaRoche, and Hu too, more chances.

    I think that we may now have seen the last of Hillenbrand as a starter - he's hopefully just there for backup now. Nomar will undoubtedly be given the benefit of two more starts no matter what - when there's no option now of minor league rehab starts. I hope that doesn't lose us two games - if everyone else is producing, I guess he can be carried. But if he flubs out both times - swinging and going out on the first pitch 0 for 4 both times as he's done so far - I hope that will be the end of Nomar as starter and LaRoche will get his chance.

    Will Furcal be rested a couple of times with Hu now available? Probably not, unless he also shows too many defensive errors.

    2007-09-09 10:20:33
    30.   Bob Timmermann
    26
    That is the best explanation yet.
    2007-09-09 10:20:56
    31.   Bluebleeder87
    Probably still brainwashed by Brian Sabean.

    I hope he cleanses him self from that form of thought little by little.

    2007-09-09 10:21:00
    32.   ToyCannon
    21
    Actions tell the story. It always has.
    2007-09-09 10:22:01
    33.   Howard Fox
    25 I meant no disrespect, the 4 homer game and Nomar last year ARE great memories...doesn't make the handling of our team now any better...and doesn't make Nomar any less over the hill now...
    2007-09-09 10:22:50
    34.   Jon Weisman
    ITD lineup:

    Abreu, SS
    Pierre, CF
    Kemp, RF
    Kent, 2B
    Loney, 1B
    Martin, C
    Ethier, LF
    Nomar, 3B
    Penny, P

    2007-09-09 10:24:14
    35.   Jon Weisman
    Has Nomar started a game batting eighth before?
    2007-09-09 10:24:31
    36.   trainwreck
    34
    Interesting to see Abreu at short.
    2007-09-09 10:25:08
    37.   trainwreck
    35
    I do not believe so.
    2007-09-09 10:25:22
    38.   Howard Fox
    31 little by little no pun intended...
    2007-09-09 10:25:23
    39.   Bob Timmermann
    27
    Of course, Koufax came up with the Dodgers in 1955 just because he had to because of his contract and he didn't see anything approximating regular action until 1959.

    However, I am wondering which young pitchers right now the Dodgers are hesitant to use. The use of Billingsley in the bullpen at the beginning of the year is pretty common among teams hoping to hold down the innings for their young stars.

    The Orioles during the glory days under Earl Weaver routinely did that.

    I don't think that Meloan has shown yet that in a high leverage situation that he's ready.

    2007-09-09 10:26:35
    40.   Bluebleeder87
    line up per ItD:

    Abreu, SS (day off for Furcal)

    Pierre, CF (batting .333 since the start of August)

    Kemp, RF (his average is 5th in baseball over the last three weeks)

    Kent, 2B

    Loney, 1B

    Martin, C

    Ethier, LF

    Nomar, 3B

    Penny, P
    _____________________________

    No Furcal

    2007-09-09 10:26:47
    41.   Howard Fox
    35 that is just because Little wouldn't have felt good about putting the better hitting Penny 8th and Nomar 9th...
    2007-09-09 10:27:22
    42.   Bob Timmermann
    Nomar batted in the #8 slot six times in his rookie year.

    This was the last time.
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS199609260.shtml

    2007-09-09 10:27:27
    43.   ToyCannon
    A few days ago we heard that Hu has a sore arm. With Abreu playing today I wonder if that is true.

    Nomar has had 25 at bats in 8th hole in his career spanning 5233 at bats. He has 2 hits from the position.

    2007-09-09 10:27:33
    44.   bhsportsguy
    Given the roster at the start of the season, I am not sure it could have worked out any differently.

    It has been talked about over and over about Juan Pierre and Luis Gonzalez but they were signed and short of injury, they were going to play. At the All-Star break, Gonzalez had this line .294/.384/.471 and while given how well Matt Kemp has played since his call-up, and I can't point to Luis and say that was a weak point in the first half.

    Once Loney took over in June, he has played the vast majority of games at first base.

    Outside of Kemp and Loney, who else was supposed to play? Andy, maybe, but he was hurt at the time he could have played with no one looking over his shoulder.

    Other than that, I don't know what more anyone could have expected, again given the roster at the beginning of the year.

    2007-09-09 10:29:23
    45.   NorCal-Dodger
    34 Hmmm...starting to like it..looks like Grady is staying at a Holiday Inn Express also. JP should lead-off and Abreu batting 2nd...nevertheless, Furcal needs a day or 2 off.
    2007-09-09 10:30:19
    46.   ToyCannon
    I think this lineup with Furcal normally in the lead off spot is about as good as it will get for the rest of this year.

    However as soon as Nomar gets a hit expect him right back in the 5 hole.

    2007-09-09 10:33:58
    47.   bhsportsguy
    46 With Nomar's power outage, he might not move.
    2007-09-09 10:37:27
    48.   JoeyP
    It has been talked about over and over about Juan Pierre and Luis Gonzalez but they were signed and short of injury, they were going to play.

    No, they could/should have been benched for non-performance.

    2007-09-09 10:37:42
    49.   ToyCannon
    Shouldn't and won't are two separate things.

    Everytime Ned has moved a veteran to an unaccustomed spot in the lineup he very quickly has reverted them back even though nothing really changed in the approach.

    2007-09-09 10:39:02
    50.   Eric Stephen
    1 Sam, sorry about the initial omission. I also forgot dzzrtRatt. He's definitely in the top 20.

    35 The lowest Nomar has started this season is 7th, which he did once (June 27 @ AZ). He last started in the 8th spot in his rookie year of 1996, which he did 6 times.

    34 This is Furcal's first day off since May 26.

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2007-09-09 10:39:47
    51.   Howard Fox
    if Pierre deserves benching, what does that say about Furcal...he has become an automatic out lately
    2007-09-09 10:41:36
    52.   KG16
    31 - I would prefer a straight detox of the Sabean thinking. The gradual cleansing means that we'll see a team with a high PVL index that is stuck in third place for a few years while we rebuild the farm system.

    In re: psychoanalyzing Ned - there are worse things we could be doing this morning, like watching New England vs the Jets or Philly against the Packers. Feh.

    2007-09-09 10:43:24
    53.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
    16 One thing I've never understood. In the days of the reserve clause, when the clubs owned a star pitcher for as long as they wanted him, we see #1 pitchers pitching 300 innings in a 4-man rotation and the pitchers maybe being effective only into their mid 30s. Now, in the days of free agency, and specialized closers and set-up men, we have pitchers pitching a bit over 200 innings in a 5-man rotation but having longer careers that can stretch into their late 30s and even early 40s. Shouldn't it have been the other way around?
    2007-09-09 10:44:26
    54.   Sam DC
    D'Angelo Jimenez with an RBI for Bob.

    Toycannon -- I guess my comment read as critical in a way that I really didn't intend. I was genuinely wondering if the guy got the Ghame Over joke because it is so totally obscure -- Yhency has had his injuries and PT limits and is just not a recognizable star and has only seen limited closing action and that was a long time ago.

    I thought it was a great encounter and wasn't t at all trying to say something like "Nomar fans aren't real Dodger fans," which really isn't the sort of comment I'm prone to making.

    2007-09-09 10:44:42
    55.   Bob Timmermann
    Wilson Betemit starting at short today for the Yankees as Jeter gets a day off.
    2007-09-09 10:45:36
    56.   bhsportsguy
    48 I deal in the real world. Sorry.

    Pierre has done what he was signed to do.

    Gonzalez's starts have dropped, maybe not as much as some would like but it has become a 3 OF/ 2 OF spot rotation.

    Should Juan sit sometimes, sure but he was not and is not going to be benched.

    2007-09-09 10:47:53
    57.   ToyCannon
    54
    My mistake, I thought you were wearing a Dodger Thoughts T-Shirt, not a Ghame Over T-Shirt.
    2007-09-09 10:49:43
    58.   Bob Timmermann
    53
    But the mindset in the reserve clause days was to just wring out as many innings as you could get from a pitcher and then toss him aside when he wasn't useful. Then go get a new one from the minors.

    Not a lot of teams really cared about the health of their players unless they were super-duper stars like Joe DiMaggio or Ted Williams.

    The Cardinals, in the Rickey era, were one of the few teams that had any semblance of a medical team.

    Also until the 1980s, pitchers and managers believed it was somewhat more "manly" to throw a complete game.

    Don't people remember how much people got on Chan Ho Park's case for going a long time without a complete game.

    Brad Penny has no complete games this season and I doubt that any but the old-fogiest of us really cares.

    2007-09-09 10:50:06
    59.   regfairfield
    48 Gonzalez pretty much has been benched since he was our best hitter in the first half. I don't have the numbers, but it definitely feels like we get Ethier/Kemp most of the time now.
    2007-09-09 10:51:07
    60.   trainwreck
    59
    Ever since Kemp took over the third spot in the batting order, that definitely seems to be the case.
    2007-09-09 10:51:58
    61.   Bob Timmermann
    Ryan Braun, the hitter, not the pitcher, has two homers in two innings today in Cincinnati (see over at the Griddle for more on the Brewers). And Braun should have 3-4 more swings against the Reds mopup guys.
    2007-09-09 10:54:17
    62.   trainwreck
    Ryan Braun is doing what many thought Alex Gordon was going to do.

    That was a good draft for third baseman.
    Gordon
    Zimmerman
    Braun
    Bell

    2007-09-09 10:55:52
    63.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
    53 I'm really asking why that was the mindset. If you had a Koufax or a Drysdale, and you could keep them for as long as you wanted, wouldn't you want to stretch out their careers for as long as you could? If you know that your ace is Team Boras and will go to the higher bidder in a few years, wouldn't you want to "wring out as many innings as you could from him"? Are you just saying that people were macho back then, or dumb, and if so, what explains the puzzling behavior now? Are the clubs just more altruistic -- wanting to help the careers of star pitchers, knowing that there is a fairly good chance the beneficiaries will be other clubs?
    2007-09-09 10:56:29
    64.   Eric Stephen
    Kemp has become more of a regular player since August 14 (since then he's hitting .390/.416/.634). With today's lineup already posted, here is the distribution of corner OF starts in the 25 games since 8/14:

    Kemp 19
    Ethier 18
    Gonzo 13

    In the Dodgers past 17 games, Gonzo has only played two complete games. In the games he starts, he almost always comes out for a defensive replacement later in the game. This is about as good a distribution of playing time that we could have realistically hoped.

    2007-09-09 10:56:58
    65.   KG16
    58 - I care about the lack of complete games, and I'm still in my 20s. It's got nothing to do with it being more manly or anything like that. It's simply a strategic thing for me, if a guy is dominating a club through 7 innings, I see no reason to take him out because he's thrown 100 pitches. If he gets in trouble, then bring in someone else, but yeah, we've had this conversation before.
    2007-09-09 10:59:53
    66.   Bluebleeder87
    Also until the 1980s, pitchers and managers believed it was somewhat more "manly" to throw a complete game.

    That form of thought is still alive & kicking on sunday leagues across California & most likely across the states.

    2007-09-09 11:00:11
    67.   Eric Stephen
    63 Because teams could keep players longer without a free market, the salaries were depressed to a point where it wasn't cost prohibitive to stockpile more players.
    2007-09-09 11:00:52
    68.   ToyCannon
    58
    I care. Really. I loved watching the pitchers struggle until the end. Watching Fernando work his way out of trouble was something I enjoyed. Did it shorten his career, probably, but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it. Orel's and Drysdales streak wouldn't have meant much if it was 10 games of 6 shutout innings as opposed to 5 & 6 complete game shutouts. Old foogy is I.

    I hate the closer era. What isn't amazing about Gagne and Saito isn't that they are dominating but that more pitchers can't be dominant for one bloody inning. One inning people. Why is it such a big deal? But it is, countless pitchers have been unable to master the art of getting 3 outs.

    2007-09-09 11:02:27
    69.   Bob Timmermann
    63
    Teams were not then, nor are they now, altruistic. They are in the business of making money. Winning as many games as they can equals more money. (No matter what you think of the Dodgers this year.)

    Look at what Tommy Lasorda did with his pitchers in the 1970s and 1980s. Although we remember Niedenfuer giving up a home run to Clark, but earlier in his career, he threw very hard and was a dominating presence.

    65

    There really aren't any teams that care to pick up complete games. We may have our first season where a team has none.

    2007-09-09 11:03:30
    70.   ToyCannon
    Bonderman and King Felix really showing off their stuff today. I think we can offically take the crown off of King Felix.
    We have a southpaw waiting who might be a better fit.
    2007-09-09 11:04:25
    71.   Bob Timmermann
    Leo Durocher once said, "Altruistic guys tend to finish in the bottom half of the standings with a record that is not commensurate with their talent."

    The writers at the time shortened it.

    2007-09-09 11:05:27
    72.   Bob Timmermann
    The Phillies scored five runs in the first off of Willis. Old Friend Werth drove in two.
    2007-09-09 11:07:52
    73.   Howard Fox
    68 I agree with you, major league pitchers, the elite of the elite of their craft, yet so few can get 3 outs in a row, or even throw strikes consistently
    2007-09-09 11:08:13
    74.   ToyCannon
    And a gazillion times someone has said
    "Leo never met ...." when a nice guy did finish 1st.
    2007-09-09 11:08:45
    75.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
    69 I know the clubs aren't altruistic now or then. That was just my way of highlighting what I find puzzling.

    67 Thanks. That's the kind of supply/demand reasoning that makes some sense of what I found curious. Still, one cannot have a stockpile of the genuinely great pitchers. The Gibson and Koufax families didn't produce any more HOF sons. You'd have thought the clubs would have treated their top aces more carefully.

    2007-09-09 11:08:49
    76.   imperabo
    53 63 I get what you're saying. It's a really good question. I'm not sure the other posters are addressing it, but I don't know the answer myself.
    2007-09-09 11:09:08
    77.   KG16
    72 - I really wish we still had Old Friend Werth, him playing everyday along side Kemp and Ethier would make me really happy.
    2007-09-09 11:16:57
    78.   Eric Stephen
    Speaking of great pitchers, I absolutely love watching Pedro Martinez pitch. Nice to see him back. He has pitched four scoreless innings so far today against Houston, throwing 75 pitches. He probably will pitch one more inning.

    Pedro's so good, I can enjoy watching him without wanting to stick a fork in my eye thinking about what could have been.

    2007-09-09 11:17:53
    79.   bhsportsguy
    Have a good game guys, I hope Brad can make it two series wins today.

    I'll be around.

    2007-09-09 11:20:51
    80.   Sam DC
    A-rod homers in the top of the first.
    2007-09-09 11:21:12
    81.   scooplew
    ARod just hit a two-run homer in the top of the 1st for the Yankees vs. K.C.
    2007-09-09 11:22:39
    82.   Bluebleeder87
    Pedro's so good, I can enjoy watching him without wanting to stick a fork in my eye thinking about what could have been.

    It's just such a nice treat to watch him pitch, but I must admit I shut down the part of my brain that remembers he was once a Dodger.

    2007-09-09 11:22:44
    83.   Bob Timmermann
    Freddy Sanchez was thrown out at the plate trying to complete an inside-the-park grand slam.

    It's 6-2 Bucs after two.

    The Steve Trachsel Show may be put on the shelf along with other shows like the Mark Hendrickson Comedy Hour and the Brett Tomko Super Terrific Quiz Show.

    2007-09-09 11:23:54
    84.   Eric Stephen
    80 ,81 That's 5 straight games with a HR for A-Rod, the 3rd time he has had such a streak in his career.

    http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/wrHG

    2007-09-09 11:25:23
    85.   Bob Timmermann
    The Tigers and Mariners will not get through 3 innings in less than 90 minutes.
    2007-09-09 11:25:45
    86.   Eric Stephen
    83 I hope the David Wells program, Two and a Half Men, doesn't get canceled!
    2007-09-09 11:27:20
    87.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
    76 Thanks. Actually, I didn't come up with the question. I remember reading a piece by Bill James several years ago in which he posed the question. Don't remember that he had an answer for it either.
    2007-09-09 11:27:44
    88.   Bob Timmermann
    It's still the top of the third in Detroit. The Mariners lead 10-5. The Tigers are bringing in their fourth pitcher.
    2007-09-09 11:29:17
    89.   RELX
    Again, I do not understand all the lineup bashing. In the last 25 games, LuGo has basically become a platoon player, having started only half the games. At this point, Kemp has become the everyday RF--batting third!--and Gonzo and Ethier basically platoon in LF, which is fine with me, since I think they are about equal these days in terms of production.

    As far as 3B, while I agree about never starting Hillenbrand again, the team is not going to bench Nomar for the rest of the season, since he is on this team next year, and they can't just make him persona non-grata. And besides, LaRoche has really done nothing to warrant playing everyday at this point.

    I just don't understand why some people seem to want an all-rookie lineup. The team has been playing well lately and veterans like LuGo and Ramon Martinez have made positive contributions.

    And, nobody has mentioned the fact the LuGo basically won the game yesterday with his HR, and yet is not playing today. If that happened with Kemp or Ethier, there would be a holy tumult, as my old SS teacher Dr. Neirman used to say.

    2007-09-09 11:29:54
    90.   Bob Timmermann
    The Steve Trachsel Show was put on hiatus in the third inning. I think the remaining episodes may only be available online.
    2007-09-09 11:32:06
    91.   Bob Timmermann
    89
    You know they burned people at the stake during the Reformation for holding ideas like that.
    2007-09-09 11:32:45
    92.   Reddog
    I feel happy and optimistic today. I really like that Abreu is starting over Furcal. I hope he has a great game, and he can play there for the next few days and let Furcal rest. He's got good gap power, I hope he gets some extra-base hits.

    I think this lineup is about as good as it gets for us, with Nomar 8th, and Kemp and Ethier in the outfield. Maybe for whatever reason, LaRoche is pressing too much when he plays. But if Nomar sucks today, I think LaRoche will start Tues.

    With Wells looking good, and hopefully Loaiza doing the same - to go along with Bills, Penny and Lowe our rotation is probably the best in the NL.

    I think we can go 5-1 on the upcoming homestand, and be a playoff team. And with Broxton and Saito, we could even win it all!

    2007-09-09 11:38:21
    93.   Eric Stephen
    89 It's not that everyone wants an all-rookie lineup. We just want the best players to play. Besides, Loney and LaRoche are the only "rookies" that warrant playing time.

    Even with Gonzo's HR, his seasonal numbers are slightly worse (maybe close to equal) than Ethier, and they are no match for Kemp.

    Nomar has done nothing to warrant playing everyday, either. He has had 654 PAs since the 2006 all-star break, and has hit .261/.313/.375. He's finished.

    2007-09-09 11:41:40
    94.   Sam DC
    Boom boom with an RBI double.
    2007-09-09 11:46:07
    95.   Bob Timmermann
    The only teams in the way of a Dodgers world championship are the Mets, the DBacks, the Padres, and then one of four really good AL teams that will make the playoffs.
    2007-09-09 11:51:19
    96.   Sam DC
    D'Angelo Jiminez with his second RBI for Bob.
    2007-09-09 11:53:21
    97.   Bluebleeder87
    as soon as Pedro Martinez leaves the game the replacing pitcher (Mota) gives up a four bagger.
    2007-09-09 11:54:52
    98.   NorCal-Dodger
    95 Only 8 teams will get an invite for October...and in the end 'there can only be one'
    2007-09-09 11:55:06
    99.   Bob Timmermann
    96
    I finished my coffee fortunately.

    I'm still slogging through the Ms-Tigers game because it's in HD. But Seattle leads 13-5. However, Felix Hernandez looks like a young Brett Tomko now.

    2007-09-09 11:56:02
    100.   Greg Brock
    And besides, LaRoche has really done nothing to warrant playing everyday at this point.

    He's either the first or second ranked third base prospect in baseball. That warrants playing time. What has Nomar done to deserve to start? Consistently stink?

    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2007-09-09 11:56:33
    101.   RELX
    Despite my 16th century outlook, I look at the Dodgers right now and see a team where Martin, Loney, Kemp and Ethier are all basically everyday players, where LaRoche at least gets a chance to play half-time, where Billingsley and Broxton are integral parts of the pitching staff. Thus, I don't understand why people are upset at all with the lineup, especially after a day where veterans LuGo and Martinez knocked in four runs combined, and veteran Wells pitched seven strong innings?
    2007-09-09 11:57:52
    102.   RELX
    100. Based on that argument, Clayton Kershaw should be in the rotation right now.
    2007-09-09 11:58:23
    103.   Bob Timmermann
    101
    There he stands, he can go no further.
    2007-09-09 11:59:02
    104.   Sam DC
    Felix Hernandez looks like a young Brett Tomko now.

    And the little children all began to weep.

    2007-09-09 11:59:03
    105.   Greg Brock
    102 Kershaw isn't old enough. But he'll probably be here next September.

    So the argument here is age? Nomar is older, therefore better?

    2007-09-09 11:59:58
    106.   eusmus
    102 ... Except LaRoche has proved everything he has needed to in AAA and about to turn 24.
    2007-09-09 12:00:42
    107.   Eric Stephen
    101 LaRoche at least gets a chance to play half-time

    LaRoche started 4 of 5 games before Nomar came back. The worry is that LaRoche will no longer play half-time, and will only occasionally get the call at 3rd base.

    2007-09-09 12:01:04
    108.   berkowit28
    49 Every time Ned has moved a veteran to an unaccustomed spot in the lineup he very quickly has reverted them back even though nothing really changed in the approach.

    Why are you [ToyCannon] attributing line-up positions to Ned?

    2007-09-09 12:02:15
    109.   regfairfield
    102 If it weren't for some hideous long term consequences, he probably does deserve to be in the rotation over Wells.
    2007-09-09 12:08:20
    110.   Bob Timmermann
    Marcus Giles getting a rare start at second base now for the Padres instead of the World Series Hero.
    2007-09-09 12:10:24
    111.   Bob Timmermann
    The Giants opt for the old guy lineup today for the most part:
    Roberts
    Frandsen
    Winn
    Bonds
    Klesko
    Molina
    Feliz
    Vizquel
    Cain
    2007-09-09 12:11:33
    112.   Sospiro0
    Bob,

    Sorry for coming in late but with the decrease in complete games and with pitchers throwing fewer innings and fewer pitches per game has there been any signicant drop in injuries to players? As I see it, the injuries have continued, but players have so many more options to consider after the injury, namely, numerous reconstructive surgeries that they are given more opportunities to continue their careers after a significant injury. Tommy John surgery is almost common place. How many careers would have extended into their late 30's and early 40's with today's medicine?

    2007-09-09 12:11:38
    113.   Bluebleeder87
    104

    & a random guy in L.A. giggles at that quote.

    2007-09-09 12:13:37
    114.   King of the Hobos
    110 I'm guessing that has something to do with him being reinstated from the 15 day DL today.
    2007-09-09 12:13:40
    115.   RELX
    102. Because Wells pitched so poorly yesterday?
    2007-09-09 12:13:49
    116.   Eric Stephen
    Looks like the Dodgers will need to win to stay 1/2 game ahead of the Phillies, who lead 8-0 in the 6th against Florida.
    2007-09-09 12:15:04
    117.   regfairfield
    115 Mark Hendrickson pitched well for an entire month.
    2007-09-09 12:15:06
    118.   Sospiro0
    Anyone remind me where I read this? I'm thinking Bill James.....the idea was that pitchers can't throw as many innings in today's game because today's game, with commercials, 5 minutes of God Bless America, and the Nomars of the world taking a timeout after every pitch, lasts a good 30 to 40 minutes longer than it used to....and that wears on the pitcher.
    2007-09-09 12:15:36
    119.   Ken Noe
    How has Nomar hit against Cain since coming into the NL? The justification for starting Gonzo yesterday seemed to be his success against Zito. I'd still prefer LaRoche, but I'm hoping there's some reason for starting Nomar other than his PVL, or #10's back going awry again.
    2007-09-09 12:16:31
    120.   Bob Timmermann
    Nomar is 1 for 7 against Cain.
    2007-09-09 12:16:46
    121.   Bluebleeder87
    o.k. I gotta get ready for my game, I'll be with you guys in spirit though, late.
    2007-09-09 12:18:09
    122.   RELX
    It is not that I am pro-veteran or anti-youth. I LOVE having all these homegrown Dodgers coming up now, many looking like future stars. It is just that there has become a faction on this site who complain every time a young player doesn't get a start, and seem to ignore any veteran contributions like they're some sort of accident.

    Don't forget, in July and August everyone was complaining that Meloan wasn't getting called up, when it is clear now that he isn't ready. That certainly makes the Proctor trade a little more understandable.

    2007-09-09 12:18:22
    123.   Gen3Blue
    I think that several unusually good DPs that LaRoche started in his starting stint
    perplexed the powers that be and they are taking a bit of time to reassess his role.

    I think my cynical nature is known, but even I was unaware of that poetical bent revealed in alliteration.

    2007-09-09 12:19:44
    124.   RELX
    117. And Wells is only being asked to pitch well for an entire month, which he has done so far.
    2007-09-09 12:20:50
    125.   Eric Stephen
    Granderson got his 20th SB today, joining the rare 20-20-20-20 club (doubles, triples, homers, steals). The members:

    Willie Mays
    Frank "Wildfire" Schulte
    Granderson

    http://tinyurl.com/2n2dx6

    Jimmy Rollins is 3 triples away from also joining the club.

    2007-09-09 12:21:28
    126.   Bob Timmermann
    125
    Good use of the nickname there.
    2007-09-09 12:21:43
    127.   regfairfield
    122 He's pitched a whopping three innings. The fact that he has almost twice as many strikeouts as base runners allowed the last two years mean a whole lot more than three innings.

    And yes, we should be thanking our lucky stars any time David Wells contributes anything.

    2007-09-09 12:22:53
    128.   Eric Stephen
    Hey, Meloan has pitched 2.1 hitless innings! ;)
    2007-09-09 12:23:56
    129.   regfairfield
    124 So why not just throw Hendrickson out there? Any player can be Albert Pujols or Johan Santana for a month, but you should be using the players who have the best chance of being useful.

    It's a coin flip that you'll win 60% of the time versus one you'll win 40% of the time. Sure, it's entirely possible that you can be successful with the 40% coin, but there's no reason to choose it.

    2007-09-09 12:24:04
    130.   Bob Timmermann
    Rockies take a 1-0 lead in the first against the Padres.
    2007-09-09 12:25:50
    131.   Eric Stephen
    130 3-0 now, as Atkins goes deep.
    2007-09-09 12:28:28
    132.   Sam DC
    D'Angelo Jimenez with his third RBI of the day for Bob.
    2007-09-09 12:29:36
    133.   Gen3Blue
    Young must not look sharp, he's over 32 pitches in the 1st.
    2007-09-09 12:30:19
    134.   Bob Timmermann
    132
    I was just trying to light a fire under him.
    2007-09-09 12:32:24
    135.   Bob Timmermann
    The Marlins hit three homers in the sixth and now trail Philadelphia 8-5.
    2007-09-09 12:32:31
    136.   Eric Stephen
    134 We are just trying to light a fire under Nomar. ;)

    For the longest time, I was convinced Jimenez would be better than Soriano. I wonder how much the car crash / neck injury derailed his career.

    2007-09-09 12:33:37
    137.   NorCal-Dodger
    124 Understand, all your comments do ring true and holds merit, but with 20 games remaining and on the outside looking in for a playoff spot, it is annoyning to see Grady allowing a veteran to play through their slump, majority of us would rather see a rookie play up to their potential. Yes, I'm talking about Nomar, and I like Nomar.
    2007-09-09 12:34:21
    138.   Bob Timmermann
    The Royals come to life and tie the game against the Yankees with a 3-run double by Alex Gordon.
    2007-09-09 12:36:07
    139.   jasonungar07
    The big one is Billingsley not starting the year in the rotation and giving 29 starts to Tomko and Hendu. They are selling genius but I don't buy it.
    2007-09-09 12:40:17
    140.   Bob Timmermann
    139
    I thought limiting Billingsley's innings was a good idea. Starting Hendrickson and Tomko wasn't the best replacement however.
    2007-09-09 12:41:38
    141.   Gen3Blue
    I want those Nationals to hang on. Just tuned in Sam, have no idea how my watching effects the Nat. But they just got a DP, so it may be OK.
    2007-09-09 12:41:40
    142.   Eric Stephen
    139 Not to mention that it has caused Billingsley to be listed as a reliever on the Dodgers Baseball Reference page!
    2007-09-09 12:43:31
    143.   RELX
    124. But aren't you making the same type of argument about letting LaRoche play through his rookie "growing pains?"
    2007-09-09 12:44:43
    144.   Sam DC
    141: You seem to be doing your part.
    2007-09-09 12:45:06
    145.   Eric Stephen
    140 I didn't mind limiting his innings either. Also, he did have control issues that he seemed to solve in the bullpen. However, if he would have started all year, he probably would have 50 more innings right now, in the 175-180 range. He pitched 161 IP in 2006, and 146 in 2005, so maybe that wouldn't have been a stretch for him.

    Maybe they could have turned to Billingsley as a starter sooner than June 21.

    2007-09-09 12:45:23
    146.   Gen3Blue
    Zimmerman"got out of town".
    2007-09-09 12:45:25
    147.   regfairfield
    143 Since I don't know which of my posts you're referring to, you need to clarify.
    2007-09-09 12:46:44
    148.   King of the Hobos
    133 Young since August 21st (including his two innings thus far today):

    4 GS, 15.1 IP, 13 H, 17 ER, 11 BB, 18 K, 5 HR

    2007-09-09 12:48:51
    149.   NorCal-Dodger
    143 Yes, at this point, Nomar has had a disappointing season and just came of DL, with the games remaining I would prefer to see LaRoche. Now that I state this, I'm sure Nomar will prove me wrong and go 3-5 with 3 RBI's and be put on 'Orange' alert by Bob.
    2007-09-09 12:50:09
    150.   Bob Timmermann
    149
    San Francisco is a prime place to get put on Orange Alert.
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2007-09-09 12:55:55
    151.   gpellamjr
    Hey, guys. What's the deal with Coors this year? It seems to me that it has surrendered more runs than it did last year. Have they toned down the humidor?
    2007-09-09 12:57:58
    152.   Bob Timmermann
    151
    I think the Rockies pitchers aren't as good this year. But that's just a guess. Cook has been injured a lot.
    2007-09-09 12:58:47
    153.   KG16
    151 - on a related thought, why doesn't any other stadium use a humidor?
    2007-09-09 13:00:38
    154.   Eric Stephen
    Almost an amazing ending in Washington. A 55 yard hail mary pass by Jason Campbell got batted away, but it went right into the hands of Antawn Randel El at the 8 or so. He was unable to get it into the end zone, going out of bounds at the 2 or 3 as the clock ran out.

    13-13 tie, going into overtime.

    2007-09-09 13:04:32
    155.   imperabo
    153 I think it would raise eyebrows as ball doctoring anywhere else. Colorado just argues that they are bringing things back to normal MLB conditions. It would be a good way to create an advantage though, because you could get more out of your best pitchers.
    2007-09-09 13:06:16
    156.   Bob Timmermann
    Orange alert for Adrian Beltre.
    2007-09-09 13:06:22
    157.   Sam DC
    Nationals win -- Your PNC Player of the Game wiht three hits and three RBIs: D'Angelo Jimenez.
    2007-09-09 13:06:54
    158.   Bob Timmermann
    Cycle alert canceled.

    Stand down.

    2007-09-09 13:08:16
    159.   Bob Timmermann
    157
    Nats move into a tie for the #12 spot in the NL.
    2007-09-09 13:08:38
    160.   D4P
    From now on, I'm only gonna stand up once a player has actually hit for the cycle.
    2007-09-09 13:12:07
    161.   gpellamjr
    160 You're a disgrace to the whole system.
    2007-09-09 13:13:35
    162.   Bob Timmermann
    Padres get one run on a Barrett double, but Ensberg was thrown out going first to third.
    2007-09-09 13:15:09
    163.   Gen3Blue
    67 mph pitch?
    2007-09-09 13:19:04
    164.   Gen3Blue
    If you look at the pitch velocities, it looks like Penny didn't warm up at all.
    2007-09-09 13:19:36
    165.   Bob Timmermann
    163

    That could have been a return throw from Martin.

    Penny's fastball was in the 90-93 mph range.

    2007-09-09 13:19:55
    166.   Andrew Shimmin
    Every time BH says Pierre has done what was expected of him, I go out of my way to find one child, and tell him that the Easter Bunny is made up.
    2007-09-09 13:20:29
    167.   Eric Stephen
    Bonds is only 6 for 41 against the Dodgers this year, after going 7 for 44 last year. Amazing.
    2007-09-09 13:21:34
    168.   Eric Stephen
    166 If I would have been drinking anything when I read that, I would have spit it out. Hilarious!
    2007-09-09 13:21:53
    169.   KG16
    155 - then shouldn't the Padres, Dodgers, Angels, and Marlins be drying out baseballs since they are playing at such low elevations so near the ocean? The "normal MLB conditions" seems a bit suspect, it's not like the game is played in a vacuum.
    2007-09-09 13:22:29
    170.   Andrew Shimmin
    168- Yeah, but only top 20 hilarious, right? I see how it is. . .
    2007-09-09 13:23:36
    171.   Eric Stephen
    170 That comment alone probably vaults you into the top ten.
    2007-09-09 13:24:09
    172.   Bob Timmermann
    169
    If baseball were played in a vacuum, all the players would die.

    That's not good for the box office.

    I don't know about you, but I've never been fond of vacuums.

    2007-09-09 13:24:16
    173.   Gen3Blue
    Good thought.
    2007-09-09 13:24:18
    174.   D4P
    Football season is kind of annoying. The postgame highlight shows last way too long, especially when you're waiting for whatever is showing on that channel next.
    2007-09-09 13:24:53
    175.   Eric Stephen
    The SF broadcast just showed a fan wearing all sorts of Giants gear, including shoes with the all-star game logo. That seems a bit much to me.
    2007-09-09 13:25:01
    176.   D4P
    170
    At least you made top-20. I'm not sure I was even an "Other receiving votes".
    2007-09-09 13:25:03
    177.   KG16
    Sean Phillips nearly just killed Rex Grossman, no one on the Bears offense even bothered to block him, nasty.
    2007-09-09 13:25:46
    178.   Bob Timmermann
    169
    Seriously though, the altitudes of all the other major league parks isn't as extreme as Denver. Atlanta and Phoenix I believe are the only other two cities that top 1000 feet.
    2007-09-09 13:27:35
    179.   Bob Timmermann
    178
    Normally I use subject-verb agreement, but I won't be tied down to such antiquated notions anymore.
    2007-09-09 13:27:58
    180.   Gen3Blue
    Interesting take on stats by one announcer.
    2007-09-09 13:28:27
    181.   Eric Stephen
    176 I didn't officially name a top 20, but have named 6 besides the top 10. There's still room in the top 20!
    2007-09-09 13:29:30
    182.   KG16
    178 - right but the argument, as I understand it, is that because of the altitude, the ball gets dried out. Well, a lot of the teams in the Western Divisions play near sea level and within minutes of the ocean, meaning there could be a disproportionate amount of moisture in the balls, thus making them heavier. At least in theory. It's been a while since I've studied physics.

    As for the vacuum thing, give them space suits. But I see your point.

    2007-09-09 13:29:48
    183.   D4P
    181
    Don't patronize me.
    2007-09-09 13:33:27
    184.   Bob Timmermann
    182
    But the sea-level teams don't get messed up to the same degree that Denver does.

    Unless the Dodgers are playing in a team that's a mile below the surface of the earth.

    But I'm not a physicist. Merely just a sciolist.

    2007-09-09 13:33:38
    185.   Andrew Shimmin
    If D4P were one of Snow White's dwarfs, would he be Moody, or Jinxy?
    2007-09-09 13:33:47
    186.   Benjamin Miracord
    Kent!!! (Where's Bluebleeder87 when we really need him?)
    2007-09-09 13:34:17
    187.   D4P
    Lucille II singing "God Bless America" to kick off the men's US Open final.
    2007-09-09 13:36:46
    188.   KG16
    184 - Shawn Green and his Dodger record for doubles in a season disagrees. It just seemed like a bit of a foolish argument, every stadium has it's unique little quirks, and I just thought of being able to bunt one over the left field fence was the quirk for Coors.
    2007-09-09 13:37:03
    189.   D4P
    185
    Icaros doesn't like Jinxy, so I guess it's time to move on.
    2007-09-09 13:37:48
    190.   Gen3Blue
    The difference between this Penny and the guy who strikes out > 10 a game doesn't seem to be stuff, So it must be command, or control, a distiction I am not comfortable with. Anyone care to tackle those deffinitions?
    2007-09-09 13:41:38
    191.   D4P
    This Federer-Djokovic match should be fun.
    2007-09-09 13:43:41
    192.   Bob Timmermann
    The Cardinals lineup today in Arizona can be described as "Albert Pujols and eight guys you don't need to pitch around."
    2007-09-09 13:44:39
    193.   KG16
    192 - isn't that their lineup every day?
    2007-09-09 13:44:57
    194.   Bob Timmermann
    Old Friend Herges in to relieve in the 6th.
    2007-09-09 13:45:13
    195.   D4P
    192
    See: The Giants lineup everyday, and Barry Bonds.
    2007-09-09 13:46:00
    196.   Gen3Blue
    What if it was the original Hendricks?
    2007-09-09 13:46:21
    197.   Bob Timmermann
    193
    No Ankiel or Duncan today.

    The outfield is Schumaker, Taguchi, and Ludwick.

    The infield is Pujols, Cairo, Ryan, and Branyan.

    Kelly Stinnett is catching.

    2007-09-09 13:47:26
    198.   Pedro Astacio
    No Eckstein?
    2007-09-09 13:47:49
    199.   Eric Stephen
    Nice to hear Duane Kuiper explain the NFL TV blackout rules to his producers on air.
    2007-09-09 13:47:51
    200.   Bob Timmermann
    Tall Chris Young coming out for a pinch hitter in the 6th.
    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2007-09-09 13:49:25
    201.   alexx
    That Bonds hit was a routine out to center except Pierre was playing on the warning track.
    2007-09-09 13:50:10
    202.   Bob Timmermann
    Ensberg was thrown out trying to move up on a pitch in the dirt. That's his second out on the bases. He was thrown out at third earlier. That was the same inning when Barrett was thrown out at home.
    2007-09-09 13:50:37
    203.   Eric Stephen
    187 Before I switched channels, I thought there was a guy named Ramon Martinez singing the national anthem in NY.
    2007-09-09 13:52:49
    204.   Gen3Blue
    We almost caught a world of trouble there from Kents range, and Penny's apparent fear to go after Bonds.
    2007-09-09 13:52:51
    205.   Bob Timmermann
    Despite what Vin tells you, Kip Wells isn't pitching for St. Louis. It's Brad Thompson.
    2007-09-09 13:53:32
    206.   Bob Timmermann
    Alberto Callaspo with the start at second for the DBacks.
    2007-09-09 13:54:14
    207.   KG16
    205 - Vin Scully is NEVER wrong, if Vin says something that appears incorrect, the rest of the world misperceived what happened.
    2007-09-09 13:55:23
    208.   KG16
    Molina missing a foul pop up like that makes me think Martin is going yard here.
    2007-09-09 13:56:15
    209.   KG16
    ok, or not, but still, he's on base, that's not a bad thing.
    2007-09-09 13:56:28
    210.   El Lay Dave
    207 Vin Scully is the anti-matter Matt Kemp.
    2007-09-09 13:57:17
    211.   Gen3Blue
    Once that got passes Cain you knew the rest of the story.
    2007-09-09 13:58:39
    212.   Eric Stephen
    That looked less than healthy for Martin.

    How about we stop running him now that he's nursing a knee injury and starting 375 games this season!

    2007-09-09 14:00:29
    213.   Jon Weisman
    122 The other side to the Meloan situation is this: I was advocating his callup in June or so precisely so that the Dodgers could see what they had in him before it got to crunch time. He could have worked through his nervousness in low-pressure situations and quite possibly, if not quite likely, turned into an asset by September, instead of a benchwarmer. Proctor has not by any means been so dominating that it's unreasonable to think Meloan could not have been better by now if broken in sooner. And for that matter, Meloan could be through his nervousness at any moment, if the Dodgers weren't so obviously nervous to use him.
    2007-09-09 14:00:46
    214.   Eric Stephen
    Martin looked safe on the replay. He pulled the left hand back to avoid the tag.
    2007-09-09 14:01:40
    215.   Gen3Blue
    That was mighty close at second, but it is crazy to let Martin push himself too far. It is a better spot to start next inning anyway.
    2007-09-09 14:03:01
    216.   eusmus
    How is that not an error?
    2007-09-09 14:03:30
    217.   Who Is Karim Garcia
    GET IN FRONT OF THE BALL, DORN!
    2007-09-09 14:03:33
    218.   Eric Enders
    If that's a double, I'm Henry VIII.

    Andy LaRoche, your future is calling.

    2007-09-09 14:03:35
    219.   KG16
    Question: does that count as a PA for Ethier? Something I've often wondered about
    2007-09-09 14:04:05
    220.   Daniel Zappala
    Finally caught up with the previous thread. Glad to see that no one mentioned me for top 10 or even top 20. I've also kept my streak alive for never being cast in the DT movie. I'm one of those guys who has a forgettable face ... the guy that everyone has seen before but can't remember who he is. I'm John C. Reilly from "Chicago".
    2007-09-09 14:04:34
    221.   Benjamin Miracord
    I'll go out on a limb here and predict that Vin Scully will soon mention the 42nd anniversary of the perfect game of Sandy Koufax.
    2007-09-09 14:05:22
    222.   Gen3Blue
    216 That was Nomar.
    2007-09-09 14:05:35
    223.   Eric Stephen
    219 No PA for Ethier. His PA will begin anew in the top of the 5th.
    2007-09-09 14:06:22
    224.   KG16
    Vin speaking of whether to send a runner from second: a bit hit up the middle would be a bit of a question mark.

    Heh.

    2007-09-09 14:06:25
    225.   D4P
    I have a hard time believing that Vizquel's glove makes up for his bat.
    2007-09-09 14:06:49
    226.   Eric Stephen
    220 Daniel, my bad. You are definitely top 20. If I had to guess, J.T. Walsh would portray you in DT:TM.
    2007-09-09 14:07:35
    227.   Greg Brock
    220 You realize you just cast yourself, right?
    2007-09-09 14:07:36
    228.   El Lay Dave
    225 Don't speak ill of the 2008 L.A. Dodgers' reserve middle infielder.
    2007-09-09 14:08:20
    229.   Gen3Blue
    Good sign. Cain has managed to throw almost as many pitches as Penny, always a challenge.
    2007-09-09 14:08:44
    230.   KG16
    228 - a little context... he mentioned how many assists Ethier and Kemp have, and then made his comment as the camera focused on our center fielder.
    2007-09-09 14:08:55
    231.   Daniel Zappala
    227 I'm a passive aggressive. Somebody had to do it.
    2007-09-09 14:09:59
    232.   Bob Timmermann
    223
    Scott Hairston of the Padres got credit for a game played despite not having a PA or playing on defense or pinch-running as he was at bat when the last out was made on the bases. The Padres took him out for the relief pitcher the next inning.

    This would be really frustrating to me if I were playing.

    2007-09-09 14:10:23
    233.   Daniel Zappala
    226 This top 20 is rapidly becoming a top oh what the heck we'll include everyone else because we don't want to hurt their feelings.
    2007-09-09 14:10:26
    234.   El Lay Dave
    229 Both are under 15 pitches/inning. 15x7 = 105.
    2007-09-09 14:10:29
    235.   Bob Timmermann
    Short Chris Young does deep for a 2-run homer.
    2007-09-09 14:11:09
    236.   KG16
    that might be the ugliest strike out I've ever seen. Have I mentioned how glad I am that we have Nomar back?
    2007-09-09 14:11:22
    237.   Bob Timmermann
    233
    Eventually it will become like the NCAA tournament. We'll have automatic qualifiers to achieve geographic balance.

    Connector will be chosen to represent Israel.

    2007-09-09 14:12:44
    238.   El Lay Dave
    234 In other words, good start pace. Cain was at 14, possible CG pace (116).
    2007-09-09 14:12:45
    239.   Daniel Zappala
    237 The fights to represent UCLA, Berkeley, and Oregon will be fierce.
    2007-09-09 14:12:59
    240.   Bob Timmermann
    2 on, 2 out for the Padres in the 7th. Fuentes in to replace the Old Friend.
    2007-09-09 14:14:26
    241.   KG16
    239 - so long as I can represent Orange County and/or Long Beach St, I'm good.
    2007-09-09 14:14:27
    242.   Bob Timmermann
    239
    Those are the "power schools". They will get multiple bids. Sort of like the ACC.
    2007-09-09 14:14:50
    243.   Eric Stephen
    237 Who will play bluetahoe in the 1st round?
    2007-09-09 14:15:09
    244.   Bob Timmermann
    Gonzalez whiffs and the threat is over in Denver for now.
    2007-09-09 14:15:44
    245.   El Lay Dave
    238 Wrong - 126 pitch pace, not likely for a CG, unless Dusty Bakers comes down to manage.

    However, Cain is now down to 13 pitches/inning. That's a pace for 117 pitches in 9. I'm guess I'm just trying to say his efficiency is good.

    2007-09-09 14:16:07
    246.   Bob Timmermann
    Brad Thompson gave up a hit to Doug Davis. The Grabowski Principle is in play.
    2007-09-09 14:19:26
    247.   El Lay Dave
    7 pitch inning for Penny. 66 pitches in 5, 13.2 / inning.
    2007-09-09 14:20:18
    248.   Linkmeister
    There must be another Dodgers fan in Hawai'i besides me. Gene Kaneshiro used to own Columbia Inn, which was a shrine to all things Dodger (and fortuitously located next to the newspaper's building), but he died and the restaurant closed.
    2007-09-09 14:20:31
    249.   KG16
    that's a rather impressive out by Abreu
    2007-09-09 14:21:25
    250.   Bob Timmermann
    248
    There was another guy from Hawai'i who posted here, but he got mad at me, and said I showed him no aloha.

    I assumed that's not a good thing.

    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2007-09-09 14:21:49
    251.   Gen3Blue
    To get on the record here,unless Penny shows obvious signs of losing it one way or the other, he should stay in through a minor crisis. Like a one or two run HR. I have seen Penny survive high pitch counts, and one of our few advantages here is that the big fellow should outlast Cain.

    That big expansion in right has cost the D's dearly today vs. any other park.

    2007-09-09 14:24:51
    252.   Jon Weisman
    Great news in post up top.

    Game chat can continue in this thread.

    2007-09-09 14:25:07
    253.   Frip
    Can a fan be as annoying as he wants to the players? Can the umpire do anything about such a fan? Or is it left up to the stadium employees?
    2007-09-09 14:27:18
    254.   King of the Hobos
    Good news:

    "I've thought about it and I want to play for the Dodgers next season," said Saito

    "I'll let my agent handle the contract," Saito said. "Last year, I hadn't talked to my family about returning. I've already had that conversation this year. So if the Dodgers want me to play, I want to play."

    "Last year, I was really a rookie," he said. "It was my first year in the States and I didn't know the stadiums and the players. This year, I don't feel like that. I'm still the same pitcher as last year with my style. I haven't changed my approach to the hitters. I can't tell why I've been better this year. Every time I'm on the mound, my mind-set is to attach the hitters."

    2007-09-09 14:27:36
    255.   Bob Timmermann
    Miguel Cairo ties it up with a 2-run double in Arizona.
    2007-09-09 14:28:03
    256.   Eric Stephen
    252 Woo hoo! Saito will return. May he be rewarded with a save today!
    2007-09-09 14:28:11
    257.   Bob Timmermann
    254 is the topic of the new post.

    Cairo actually tripled.

    2007-09-09 14:28:26
    258.   Daniel Zappala
    I easily get to represent Utah. Except I don't get a bid unless I beat everyone else in the mountain west and then on top of that win my non-league contests against Bob, Brock, and ToyCannon ... just like the MWC.
    2007-09-09 14:29:50
    259.   Bob Timmermann
    253
    Buying a ticket does not give you a license to be a jerk. If a player thinks a spectator is being abusive, he can ask for stadium security to remove the fan.

    The stadium operator has the right to kick out anybody for just about any reason.

    2007-09-09 14:31:54
    260.   Jon Weisman
    Shea Hillenbrand will not be getting that start at second base in the Dodgers' next game.
    2007-09-09 14:32:08
    261.   Bob Timmermann
    Padres again threaten with two on and one out in the 8th. Kouzmanoff pinch hitting and Old Friend Brady Clark on deck.
    2007-09-09 14:32:12
    262.   Gen3Blue
    Thats what I like. As long as it is not to right.
    2007-09-09 14:33:09
    263.   Bob Timmermann
    Wild pitch by Fuentes moves up the runners.
    2007-09-09 14:33:57
    264.   Bob Timmermann
    Actually just Ensberg moved up. Barrett didn't and that was crucial as Kouzmanoff singled to make it 3-2. Barrett on 3rd with one out and Clark at bat.
    2007-09-09 14:35:06
    265.   Bob Timmermann
    Ryan singles in Cairo. 3-2 Redbirds in the 3rd.
    2007-09-09 14:35:06
    266.   El Lay Dave
    With two day games in a row, Grady rests Kent yesterday and starts Gonzo; today he rests Gonzo and starts Kent. Grady is a genius.
    2007-09-09 14:35:24
    267.   Gen3Blue
    It would be nice to make Cain throw some pitches and Martin is doing a good job.
    2007-09-09 14:35:44
    268.   Eric Stephen
    Kent's slugging % moves up to .500 after his 2nd HR today.
    2007-09-09 14:36:02
    269.   Frip
    Thanks Bob.

    Federer may lose first set of U.S. Open. This one is gonna go to the wire. Djokovic is a serious contender.

    2007-09-09 14:36:53
    270.   King of the Hobos
    First pitch to Brady Clark is a DP
    2007-09-09 14:37:13
    271.   eusmus
    Russell Martin is so awesome
    2007-09-09 14:37:54
    272.   KG16
    Triple for Martin - warm up the sirens Bob
    2007-09-09 14:38:02
    273.   Eric Stephen
    Man, Martin looks beat up after every slide. This kind of reminds me of Beltre in 2004. I'd always notice his ankle was hurting after he pulled up at 2nd base with another double.
    2007-09-09 14:38:14
    274.   King of the Hobos
    270 Make that Brian Myrow.
    2007-09-09 14:38:14
    275.   Bob Timmermann
    Pujols doubles in Ryan. 4-2 Cards.
    2007-09-09 14:38:18
    276.   D4P
    269
    Novak is no djok.

    However, he was serving 6-5, 40-0, and ended up losing the game. It's now in a tie-break.

    2007-09-09 14:38:41
    277.   Bob Timmermann
    And Myrow bounces into a DP to end the threat.
    2007-09-09 14:39:23
    278.   El Lay Dave
    Ethier is the team leader in SF with 7.
    2007-09-09 14:39:26
    279.   Andrew Shimmin
    When Martin's leg finally falls off, it's going to be a sad, sad day. A couple of years later, he'll go on Monster Garage and get a souped-up rocket wheelchair.
    2007-09-09 14:39:35
    280.   Bob Timmermann
    The last Dodgers catcher to get three triples in a season was Mike Scioscia in 1992.
    2007-09-09 14:39:55
    281.   Gen3Blue
    A young guy like Cain they should be careful how many pitches they let him throw.

    Announcer says--Martins got catchers legs as he goes into third.

    2007-09-09 14:40:07
    282.   KG16
    Martin and Ethier are making Cain earn his salary in these two at bats
    2007-09-09 14:40:29
    283.   Bob Timmermann
    Holliday road!

    Matt hits a homer off of Meredith to make it 4-2 in the bottom of the 8th.

    2007-09-09 14:40:33
    284.   El Lay Dave
    Pitching around Andre to get to Nomar, eh?
    2007-09-09 14:41:29
    285.   El Lay Dave
    Or not? (as the count goes full)
    2007-09-09 14:42:02
    286.   D4P
    Pitching around Nomar to get to Brad, eh?
    2007-09-09 14:42:28
    287.   Bob Timmermann
    I would not be so excited about the Cardinals lead. They pinch hit for Thompson and now will have to go with their long relievers.

    The game in Arizona should end in another four hours.

    2007-09-09 14:42:31
    288.   El Lay Dave
    Do you walk Nomar to get to Penny? You know Grady doesn't pinch-hit in this situation!
    2007-09-09 14:42:46
    289.   bearlurker
    Back to Jon's post earlier this week when Grady didn't bat for Lowe.
    2007-09-09 14:42:48
    290.   Eric Stephen
    283 I think Holliday was making moves on Christie Brinkley as he rounded third. Hopefully this game will help send the Padres to an October vacation.
    2007-09-09 14:42:48
    291.   King of the Hobos
    How many times are the Dodgers going to force Grady into this scenario?
    2007-09-09 14:43:45
    292.   KG16
    well, that's an unsurprising plot twist. Penny hitting for himself and getting hit by the pitch. Lovely.

    Ok, Tony, make Raffy trade bait.

    2007-09-09 14:43:58
    293.   Eric Stephen
    Penny has only thrown 74 pitches; he's got 2 more innings in him.
    2007-09-09 14:44:06
    294.   Gen3Blue
    Here is where you last year wanted Furcal up. This year I don't care>
    2007-09-09 14:44:41
    295.   El Lay Dave
    For the record, I bat Penny here too. He has a lead. He is the ace. He has only made 74 pitches. He will be better in the seventh than Proctor/Beimel/Seanez/whoever.
    2007-09-09 14:45:28
    296.   Eric Stephen
    Wow, a pair of timely double faults among other plays gives Federer the first set, 7-6 (4)
    2007-09-09 14:45:41
    297.   Bob Timmermann
    I didn't notice on the list of Dodger catchers with triples that Martin had FOUR last year.
    2007-09-09 14:46:07
    298.   Jon Weisman
    289 - I'm more willing to believe that Penny has two more shutout innings in him, in which case I leave him in. Still, that's about as debatable as the situation gets - you still might have wanted to pinch-hit.
    2007-09-09 14:46:30
    299.   Bob Timmermann
    Taguchi and Branyan can't add any more runs and it's 4-2 Cards after 2 1/2.
    2007-09-09 14:47:13
    300.   KG16
    295 - I'm not upset about letting Penny hit, it's more that when the Dodgers make that move, they have something like their best pitcher getting hit on the elbow.
    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2007-09-09 14:48:01
    301.   natepurcell
    300

    left elbow= no problemo.

    2007-09-09 14:48:17
    302.   Bob Timmermann
    Now Kip Wells is pitching for the Cardinals.

    Hide the children.

    2007-09-09 14:48:54
    303.   Eric Stephen
    302 Never, ever doubt Vin Scully again!
    2007-09-09 14:49:28
    304.   Bob Timmermann
    Going to the top of then ninth in Denver. The Padres will have Giles, Giles, and Cameron to face Corpas. 4-2 Rockies.
    2007-09-09 14:50:17
    305.   KG16
    304 - so, is that good or bad for the Dodgers?
    2007-09-09 14:50:17
    306.   Bob Timmermann
    Kip could have a chance to pick up win #7 or loss #17.
    2007-09-09 14:50:45
    307.   Frip
    I can't beleive Jeff Kent didn't bother to shave his neck for his "In My Own Words" interview.
    2007-09-09 14:50:51
    308.   Bob Timmermann
    305
    As I look at it:
    Good, bad, OK.
    2007-09-09 14:51:20
    309.   Bob Timmermann
    And the first Giles flied out.
    2007-09-09 14:52:06
    310.   El Lay Dave
    308 As long as there are no Blum sightings.
    2007-09-09 14:53:59
    311.   El Lay Dave
    Another 7 pitch inning for Penny. 81 pitches total.
    2007-09-09 14:54:18
    312.   Bob Timmermann
    The second Giles pops out.
    2007-09-09 14:54:53
    313.   Bob Timmermann
    All over. Rockies 4, Padres 2.
    2007-09-09 14:56:00
    314.   Jon Weisman
    The Dodgers have not played a nine-man complete game this year.
    2007-09-09 14:56:03
    315.   Eric Stephen
    16 Dodgers have hit 2 HR in a game in SF, including Kent today, Loney Friday, and Gonzo in April.

    Only one (Kevin Elster) has hit 3 HR in a game in SF.

    http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/8gha

    2007-09-09 14:56:30
    316.   Gen3Blue
    The "Bull" eh.
    2007-09-09 14:56:47
    317.   El Lay Dave
    313 The 8th and 9th now become a little more leveraged situations.
    2007-09-09 14:56:50
    318.   King of the Hobos
    Kip Wells hit Byrnes, but actually managed to pitch a scoreless inning.
    2007-09-09 14:58:18
    319.   Gen3Blue
    311 Beautiful to behold.

    I could say more but I better not.

    2007-09-09 14:58:39
    320.   El Lay Dave
    314 I don't think they will today either. If the score doesn't change, Lucille II in for Nomar late, right?
    2007-09-09 14:59:24
    321.   overkill94
    That was a terrible pitch. Was that supposed to be a change-up?
    2007-09-09 14:59:35
    322.   Eric Stephen
    314 The last 9-man CG was June 22, 2006 against Seattle.

    http://tinyurl.com/2cuxhh

    2007-09-09 15:00:06
    323.   Vishal
    i don't understand. 1 pitch and penny's lifted?
    2007-09-09 15:00:21
    324.   Gen3Blue
    Terrible move here, unless Penny felt he had "lost it".
    2007-09-09 15:01:31
    325.   El Lay Dave
    Good grief, I hope that's not because Penny's injured.

    It's not going to be Beimel/Winn again, is it?

    2007-09-09 15:01:40
    326.   Bob Timmermann
    NL teams playing NL opponents have gone through a whole game with just 9 players 14 times. And one of those games both teams did it and that game went just six innings.

    The Mets also used just nine players in a 5-inning game.

    2007-09-09 15:02:19
    327.   Eric Stephen
    That was bizarre. Penny looked like he asked to come out. He looked to the bullpen immediately after giving up the double.
    2007-09-09 15:02:52
    328.   KG16
    Ok, someone explain to me, like I'm a six year old, why isn't Broxton brought into this situation?
    2007-09-09 15:03:25
    329.   overkill94
    Those guys need to get out of the way!
    2007-09-09 15:04:23
    330.   dzzrtRatt
    Was Scully trying to say "pet poodles?"
    2007-09-09 15:04:45
    331.   Eric Stephen
    If Penny knew he was done, at least he let it be known (if that was the case).
    2007-09-09 15:04:53
    332.   Vishal
    grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
    2007-09-09 15:05:05
    333.   overkill94
    Argh, I'm supposed to take some girl to the movies at 3:30, how am I supposed to leave with the game still in doubt?
    2007-09-09 15:05:19
    334.   Eric Stephen
    328 Broxton has pitched 3 straight games and 4 of 5 days.
    2007-09-09 15:06:06
    335.   Bob Timmermann
    333
    Just stand the girl up. That always works well and ensures that you won't run into a similar situation again.
    2007-09-09 15:06:33
    336.   King of the Hobos
    328 With Bonds coming up, I'm sure Grady wanted Beimel in, so Proctor-Beimel-Broxton made some sense.
    2007-09-09 15:07:02
    337.   dzzrtRatt
    333 If she won't let you play it on the radio on the way to the movie, she's not for you. You can't use the excuse that you just want to hear the genius Vin Scully either. She's going to have to tolerate Charley and Rick.
    2007-09-09 15:07:29
    338.   Bob Timmermann
    At least Kip Wells can hit. He got a single and he's batting .347 on the season. The Redbirds have two on and two out with Ryan up.
    2007-09-09 15:07:37
    339.   El Lay Dave
    328 334 Also, a right-hander for one batter (Winn), then Beimel for Bonds/Klesko is pretty textbook.
    2007-09-09 15:08:19
    340.   Bob Timmermann
    Why would the Giants pinch run once Frandsen got to third? Marginally how much faster can the new guy be?
    2007-09-09 15:09:37
    341.   Bob Timmermann
    Ryan can't deliver. 4-2 going to the bottom of the 4th.
    2007-09-09 15:11:21
    342.   xaphor
    Am I missing something? Why was Beimel brought in just to IBB Bonds?
    2007-09-09 15:11:43
    343.   alex 7
    that's why you let Proctor throw those 4 intentional balls. poor managing.
    2007-09-09 15:11:44
    344.   Bob Timmermann
    Beimel becomes the first Dodger to come in to face one batter and intentionally walk him since Steve Wilson back on April 22, 1993.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MON/MON199304220.shtml

    2007-09-09 15:11:51
    345.   KG16
    342 - the intentional walk wasn't called until the count was 2-0
    2007-09-09 15:12:15
    346.   Andrew Shimmin
    335- Dating advice in the same vein.

    http://xkcd.com/306/

    2007-09-09 15:12:28
    347.   coachjpark
    340 Bruce Bochy probably wasn't an econ major...
    2007-09-09 15:12:47
    348.   alex 7
    Little plays checkers and didn't account for the possible pinch-hitting for Klesko.
    2007-09-09 15:13:31
    349.   El Lay Dave
    Beimel vs. Durham or Broxton vs. ?

    Interesting choice, given how poor a year Durham has had.

    2007-09-09 15:13:33
    350.   Bob Timmermann
    Steve Wilson did that feat three times. It's been done 8 times previously.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/XEte

    Show/Hide Comments 351-400
    2007-09-09 15:13:56
    351.   bearlurker
    340 And Frandsen runs pretty well. Maybe Frandsen tweaked something?
    2007-09-09 15:14:18
    352.   Ken Noe
    Gamechannel predictably has locked up with Penny still in and Frandsden on second--I'm assuming bases are loaded?
    2007-09-09 15:14:52
    353.   eusmus
    what a complete joke
    2007-09-09 15:14:55
    354.   El Lay Dave
    348 I think he did - that's partly why Broxton was up. I might stick with Beimel (Mr. Comebacker) against Durham, but this is a tough call. Managing is not always straightforward.
    2007-09-09 15:15:05
    355.   trainwreck
    Maybe they should not have kept throwing the same pitch.
    2007-09-09 15:15:07
    356.   Eric Stephen
    Wow, what a bad run for Broxton.
    2007-09-09 15:15:07
    357.   Bob Timmermann
    Well, there was a 3-run homer by Durham, so you haven't missed much.
    2007-09-09 15:15:38
    358.   dzzrtRatt
    Gaah. Beimel should've just pitched to Bonds.
    2007-09-09 15:15:44
    359.   alex 7
    ouch
    2007-09-09 15:15:48
    360.   overkill94
    Oh Bull...
    2007-09-09 15:15:56
    361.   bearlurker
    Time to demote Broxton. 3 HR in last 4 appearances.
    2007-09-09 15:15:59
    362.   Disabled List
    What on earth is wrong with Broxton???
    2007-09-09 15:16:26
    363.   Eric Stephen
    That 2.5 game barrier is a tough one to break.
    2007-09-09 15:16:27
    364.   natepurcell
    broxtons going to overthrow now and blow out his elbow.
    2007-09-09 15:16:34
    365.   Ken Noe
    357 Gee, ignorance was bliss.
    2007-09-09 15:16:47
    366.   SgtWyatt
    Thanks a lot Grady, great idea bringing Broxton in when he's failed us 3 times in a row now with the exact same performance.
    2007-09-09 15:17:13
    367.   coachjpark
    This is retrospective managing, but

    1) Rest Broxton today completely, or
    2) Start him off in the 8th inning

    2007-09-09 15:17:19
    368.   Vishal
    grady was too clever by half that inning.
    2007-09-09 15:17:20
    369.   Bob Timmermann
    Beimel could join the company of these pitchers who got credited for a loss when all they did was intentionally walk the only batter they faced.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/WTbh

    2007-09-09 15:17:28
    370.   scooplew
    Niedenfuer...
    2007-09-09 15:17:44
    371.   overkill94
    There's no way we should lose a series to these chumps, we better have a 9th-inning comeback
    2007-09-09 15:17:44
    372.   Eric Stephen
    To top it all off, Beimel's IBB makes him the pitcher of record!
    2007-09-09 15:17:52
    373.   SgtWyatt
    Everyone knows Broxton can't pitch with inherited runners. Grady should turn in his uniform.
    2007-09-09 15:18:25
    374.   alex 7
    I'm not sure how a 2-0 curveball to Bonds is any riskier than a 3-1 or 0-0 curveball. And if you can get it in for a strike, you're back to a 2-1 count and a "regular" at bat.
    2007-09-09 15:18:28
    375.   El Lay Dave
    How does that garbage get out? Bah.
    2007-09-09 15:18:42
    376.   Eric Stephen
    366 Broxton pitched a scoreless 8th yesterday.
    2007-09-09 15:19:21
    377.   Jon Weisman
    366 and 373 are false statements.
    2007-09-09 15:19:49
    378.   El Lay Dave
    370 IIRC, Neidenfuer threw about 110 innings that year.
    2007-09-09 15:21:35
    379.   El Lay Dave
    The HR that Soriano hit off Broxton was an shin-high fastball. Today was a ball inside that Durham half bailed on and got a little lucky. It's not as if Broxton is hanging sliders up there.
    2007-09-09 15:21:58
    380.   dzzrtRatt
    367 First of all, hit for Penny with first and third and only a one-run lead. I know he's great and was throwing an excellent game, but it was the 7th inning! A one run lead isn't nearly enough, even against the Giants.

    Then Broxton to start the 8th, with hopefully at least one insurance run.

    Little's gone off the rails a little. Maybe he's not up for a full season. I don't remember so many dumb decisions earlier in the year.

    2007-09-09 15:22:02
    381.   Eric Stephen
    Good god, this game wasn't meant to be.
    2007-09-09 15:22:14
    382.   coachjpark
    wow
    2007-09-09 15:22:38
    383.   natepurcell
    how the hell did he catch that.
    2007-09-09 15:22:56
    384.   Frip
    I didn't want to see Pierre ground out in important playoff situations anyway.
    2007-09-09 15:23:28
    385.   trainwreck
    We definitely could not afford to lose a series to the Giants.

    But I am still not down, good times are ahead.

    2007-09-09 15:23:40
    386.   dzzrtRatt
    C'mon, work it Andre.
    2007-09-09 15:24:44
    387.   Eric Stephen
    380 I would have let Penny hit in the 7th, thinking he could go 2 more innings having thrown only 74 pitches to that point. However, Penny seemingly wanted out in the 8th after the leadoff double. If he was that close to being done, couldn't Penny have communicated that earlier?
    2007-09-09 15:24:52
    388.   overkill94
    Come on Nomar, lean into one
    2007-09-09 15:25:00
    389.   coachjpark
    Now would be a good time for Nomar...
    2007-09-09 15:25:21
    390.   natepurcell
    should be 3-4 with 1 out and ethier on first.
    2007-09-09 15:25:22
    391.   Andrew Shimmin
    The Dodgers biggest problem this series is that Sabean unloaded Armando Benitez in July.
    2007-09-09 15:25:59
    392.   dzzrtRatt
    That LaRoche should never play again!

    Oh, wait, that was Nomar? He'll be in the lineup Tuesday.

    2007-09-09 15:26:01
    393.   Andrew Shimmin
    Looking it up, it was actually May 31st.
    2007-09-09 15:26:15
    394.   Eric Stephen
    NoMore.
    2007-09-09 15:26:19
    395.   Ken Noe
    It's still 2-1 in my little internet world. And it's happy here. Safe, like a cocoon.
    2007-09-09 15:26:29
    396.   overkill94
    Time for Jason Bourn to wipe away my sorrows
    2007-09-09 15:26:37
    397.   Vishal
    well, that wasn't surprising.
    2007-09-09 15:27:29
    398.   bearlurker
    I'm not so sure what Grady should have done there. I think you have to let Beimel go after Bonds, not nibble at him. Once Bonds walk, you know the speedy Davis is coming in and Bochy is PH for Klesko so you probably need to take Beimel out. But once Beimel walks Bonds, you go with either Broxton or Saito and Broxton is probably the right choice.

    But at this point, I don't think you go to Broxton next time; 3 HR in his last 4 outings suggest he's just not throwing well.

    2007-09-09 15:27:36
    399.   Gen3Blue
    Pretty obvious comedy from pulling an unripe Penny. But I can believe Penny was that greedy for the win that he would mistakenly surrender the mound.
    I took a walk, knowing it was over when Penny was removed, but I was confused--did he actually want to come out.

    I was initially not totally down on Grady's pitching moves, but they may have become so neurotic, he is past saving.
    But I guess at least, Penny did not get the loss.

    2007-09-09 15:27:38
    400.   Vishal
    390 should be 2-1 dodgers, but whatever.
    Show/Hide Comments 401-450
    2007-09-09 15:28:14
    401.   Jon Weisman
    You all can migrate to the thread above this one. Semi-new post up top.
    2007-09-09 15:28:29
    402.   scooplew
    man oh man oh man....
    2007-09-09 15:28:33
    403.   Ricardo
    I am very frustrated, this series could be much better for the Dodgers.But Grady...
    2007-09-09 15:29:46
    404.   Disabled List
    That was an ugly, dispiriting series. Should've been a sweep, and we managed to lose 2 out of 3.

    Man, I'm depressed now.

    2007-09-09 15:30:30
    405.   Gen3Blue
    The more I think on it, this was about Penny not getting the loss, and I am on record earlier saying he should not be pulled at the first sign of trouble.

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