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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Smile! Saito Says He Will Return to Dodgers in '08
2007-09-09 14:14
by Jon Weisman

Takashi Saito has committed to returning to the Dodgers for another season instead of retiring, according to Ken Gurnick of

It might have been more negotiating ploy than anything, but a year ago Takashi Saito was noncommittal about returning for his second season in the Major Leagues.

A year later, Saito said he's planning to return to the Dodgers for a third season in 2008.

"I've thought about it and I want to play for the Dodgers next season," said Saito, who has emerged as the most reliable closer in baseball, less than two years after making the club on a Minor League contract after an All-Star career in Japan.

Coming off a rookie season when he went from the Triple-A Las Vegas roster to closer in two months, Saito received $1 million for this year. He's already earned $100,000 in additional incentives with another $150,000 possible for games finished.

"I'll let my agent handle the contract," Saito said. "Last year, I hadn't talked to my family about returning. I've already had that conversation this year. So if the Dodgers want me to play, I want to play." ...

Saito has been just remarkable this year, allowing eight runs in 57 innings (1.26 ERA, 355 ERA+), striking out 71 while walking 10. Though this should be taken with a grain of salt considering his short MLB career, it's fun to note that Saito's career major-league ERA in 135 1/3 innings is 1.73, the lowest in Dodger history for anyone with 135 or more innings, according to (Saito's career ERA+ of 263 is by far the best in Dodger history for someone with 135 or more innings, and it's second-best in MLB history behind Boston's Jonathan Papelbon.)

Comments (212)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-09 14:30:54
1.   Linkmeister
He looks like he's having too much fun to quit.
2007-09-09 14:37:29
2.   El Lay Dave
1 Seven digits of fun. This is very good news indeed.
2007-09-09 14:44:20
3.   Benaiah
Can you get luckier than that? Penny shouldn't have hit (since he will probably be pulled before he gets an out in the 7th), and Cain hits him! Unbelievable.
2007-09-09 14:44:56
4.   Humma Kavula
Sample sizes be damned:

Chad Billingsley has the same ERA+ as Sandy Koufax.

2007-09-09 14:47:19
5.   Jon Weisman
3 - Is it a good thing to have your pitcher get hit by a pitch?
2007-09-09 15:15:50
6.   SgtWyatt
Thank Grady....great idea to bring in a pitcher who has failed you in this exact same spot three times in a row now via the HR.
2007-09-09 15:17:40
7.   Benaiah
5 - Well, its not great, but if they aren't hurt then it is like an IBB.

Broxton must have a tic or something. He is tipping his pitches maybe.

2007-09-09 15:20:33
8.   Benaiah
5 - Well, its not great, but if they aren't hurt then it is like an IBB.

Broxton must have a tic or something. He is tipping his pitches maybe.

2007-09-09 15:24:13
9.   Jon Weisman
6 - Still not true, even in this thread.
2007-09-09 15:30:08
10.   Benaiah
5 - Well, its not great, but if they aren't hurt then it is like an IBB.

Broxton must have a tic or something. He is tipping his pitches maybe.

2007-09-09 15:30:46
11.   Benaiah
weird, every time I refresh it is posting.
2007-09-09 15:30:55
12.   Disabled List
I have a feeling this thread is going to take on the characteristics of a group therapy session.
2007-09-09 15:31:15
13.   eusmus
Hopefully Logan White enjoys his new job with the Pirates. I'm looking forward to many more years of Colletti and Grady doing the best they can to ruin a good thing.
2007-09-09 15:32:20
14.   Bob Timmermann
I think it will be closer to primal scream. Or possibly something closer to a deprogramming session after someone has joined a cult.
2007-09-09 15:33:06
15.   trainwreck
Broxton through a hanging slider in the exact same spot he had earlier. Durham knew he was coming inside and it hung enough for him to crush it.

Nothing wrong with Broxton.

2007-09-09 15:33:38
16.   Gen3Blue
This is just the way Karma runs in Baseball and managers. I'm afraid Grits is in a bad place to manage from his recent experiences( last 3 years.), but we are going through young team stuff, and will only get better.
2007-09-09 15:33:45
17.   trainwreck
*Broxton threw.

Oy vey.

2007-09-09 15:33:54
18.   Eric Stephen
It's certainly frustrating that the Dodgers have lead each of the last 4 games in the 7th inning (incidentally all with the pitcher batting with men on base in the top of the 7th), but are only 2-2 in those games.
2007-09-09 15:34:27
19.   Bob Timmermann
Kip Wells is pitching really well for the Cardinals in Arizona now.
2007-09-09 15:35:48
20.   Bob Timmermann
Sam DC said he was praying for a Dodger comeback while at a concert at a Baptist church, but he feared that his Hebraicness put the kibosh on that.
2007-09-09 15:36:47
21.   Jon Weisman
I'm not putting this one all on Grady. He had the right to expect more than two runs from the lineup he put out there today.
2007-09-09 15:39:01
22.   scooplew
Before this weekend's series, does anyone know what our record was in games in which we were leading after 6 innings?
2007-09-09 15:39:53
23.   Bob Timmermann
So I'm the only person who thinks Joe Beimel's loss is the toughest possible one a pitcher can have?
2007-09-09 15:40:51
24.   Gen3Blue
Cain is good though. But did anyone else feel it was over when Penny was pulled after that lead-off double. I knew it with an uncanny certainty. I'd like to think I felt it because of the double, but I felt it when he took himself out. (if that is what he did)
2007-09-09 15:41:08
25.   scooplew
378 (Prior thread) What does IIRC stand for?
2007-09-09 15:41:41
26.   El Lay Dave
15 Again, Soriano's HR off Broxton was a shin-high fastball, a bit unlucky that gets hit out. Today, even it was a hanging slider that Durham hit out (and I didn't think he got it, live), it was inside, probably not a strike. Broxton's fastball looks good to me and he isn't give up these HRs on horrible pitches. This is just some unfortunately timed mean-regression.

The key is Penny hit, then came out after a leadoff double. I agreed with letting him hit, but I never expected that he would, like Billingsley, be pulled after one batter. Penny had given up other leadoff hits, but pitched efficiently. Maybe the length of the top of the inning had him stiffening up or something? The key question from the press better be, why did Penny come out?

2007-09-09 15:41:58
27.   King of the Hobos
25 If I recall/remember correctly.
2007-09-09 15:43:10
28.   Monterey Chris

I agree with you Bob. Krukow also made that point on the Giants' broadcast.

2007-09-09 15:43:14
29.   El Lay Dave
25 If I Recall (or Remember) Correctly. (In this case, I didn't look it up.)
2007-09-09 15:44:23
30.   Bob Timmermann
The last time a pitcher lost a game like Beimel was Brian Shouse of the Brewers pitching against the Cardinals on the next to last day of the season. The Brewers led 2-0 in the 8th and the Cardinals had second and third and one out.

Shouse was called in to pitch to Jim Edmonds, but Juan Encarnacion pinch hit and Ned Yost had him walked. Francisco Cordero came in and got Ronnie Belliard to line out, but Scott Spiezio followed with a bases-clearing triple.

The Cardinals held on to win the division by 1 1/2 games.

2007-09-09 15:45:28
31.   El Lay Dave
23 No, it would be tougher if there were four intentional wide ones instead of just the last two.
2007-09-09 15:45:53
32.   Gen3Blue
23 I admit I missed his trial, was it tough on him. Some people are just plain winners, like Saito, but this week of course brings doubts about Biemel and possibly even Broxton. I would love to think otherwise.
Guys can just hit rough spots.

I think it is incumbent on this team to play the best players next year.

2007-09-09 15:46:12
33.   dzzrtRatt
21 Well, and now that I think about it, the Dodgers hit into some bad luck/good defense on a couple of key occasions.

I just think Little should've done everything he could to put runs on the board when he had the chance in the 7th.

Also, pinchhitting for Nomar? A forbidden act? Would lightening strike? Garciaparra's not been hitting for much since his return. I know Little was probably rooting for a festivus miracle there, but this isn't 2006.

2007-09-09 15:47:15
34.   Eric Stephen
22 The Dodgers record when leading after 6, coming into the weekend, was 58-3. It is now 59-5, a .922 clip.

Only the Cardinals are better (51-1, .981). The Braves are also 59-5 heading into today.

The NL winning percentage when leading after 6 innings is .846.

2007-09-09 15:47:42
35.   Gen3Blue
30 Now I see, said the blind carpenter and he picked up his hammer and saw.
2007-09-09 15:48:12
36.   Bob Timmermann
Beimel was pretty much brought in with the mandate, "Get Bonds out on your first pitch or walk him."
2007-09-09 15:48:29
37.   King of the Hobos
Schumaker with a 2 out triple in Arizona
2007-09-09 15:48:57
38.   Eric Stephen
26 The weird thing was that Penny batted in the 7th, then pitched a 7-pitch inning in the 7th. He didn't come out until the 8th. Immediately after giving up the double, he looked to the bullpen and dugout like he was done. I can't wait to see the postgame reaction, if any.
2007-09-09 15:49:21
39.   scooplew
27 29 Thanks. El Lay Dave -- good point on Niedenfuer in last thread; he pitched 106 1/3 innings in '85 prior to the playoffs.
2007-09-09 15:49:32
40.   dzzrtRatt
23 Wins and losses for anyone but the starter tend to be arbitrary. I don't expect it's particularly tough for Beimel emotionally, and I doubt it would ever become a contract issue.

Also, couldn't the official scorer just award the loss to Broxton? Isn't there a little discretion there?

2007-09-09 15:49:36
41.   trainwreck
Beimel did get a raw deal, but this is the life of middle relief.
2007-09-09 15:50:51
42.   KG16
14 - sort of like an intervention. Except with more booze.

Despite my desire to see starters go deeper into the game, I think I might have hit for Penny in his last PA. If you've got a chance to break a game open, go for it. Though El Lay Dave is right, if Penny is going to hit then it doesn't make any sense that he come out like he did. There are some questions that need answers.

23 - Biemel should get an asterisk next to his loss total for this year.

All in all, this next week will be the most important of the season, three with the Priests, three with the Snakes. We'll know by Friday if we should buy playoff tickets.

2007-09-09 15:50:54
43.   King of the Hobos
Schumaker stranded at 3rd, still 4-2 Cards.
2007-09-09 15:50:59
44.   Gen3Blue
34 So that is what has felt so wierd. We used to be sure thing going into the 6th ahead( or even tied).. but the last week or two.
2007-09-09 15:52:08
45.   Bob Timmermann
There is no discretion when it comes to choosing the losing pitcher. Just the winner and that only comes up a handful of times per year.
2007-09-09 15:52:40
46.   El Lay Dave
21 And more than 82 pitches from Penny.

I guess that Matt Cain kid is pretty good too.

There will be talk about Ethier striking out after being 3-0, with one out and Martin on third. (I was a little surprised that we didn't see a veteran PH for Abreu later, maybe Sweeney, in the later bases-loaded two-out situation against Cain.)

2007-09-09 15:52:56
47.   Jon Weisman
24 - "I knew it with an uncanny certainty."

Your comments do have a history of assuming the worst, unless I'm misremembering. The situation wasn't much different from the Ethier game.

2007-09-09 15:53:29
48.   scooplew
All three of this weekend's games demonstrate how the line between winning and losing can be so incredibly thin -- and under a high-powered microscope this late in the season -- and how each and every decision may affect the outcome of the game. It was just a weird series, and a demoralizing one. But, still, if we get hot this week against the Padres and DBacks, we can move right back into the thick of things.
2007-09-09 15:55:07
49.   scooplew
28 Chris: Do you live in Monterey?
2007-09-09 15:55:50
50.   Jon Weisman
Amazing that the Rockies are only a half-game behind the Dodgers. Colorado starts a series in Philly tomorrow.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-09 15:56:23
51.   Gen3Blue
47 I wish I could deny it.

Oh well, have to enjoy the people who are getting some play, and keep going. Now that I have to confront it, it is hard being a pessimistic optimist.

2007-09-09 15:57:57
52.   El Lay Dave
I forgot that Durham's HR was on an 0-2 pitch. I'm certain that if Durham takes, that was ball one, inside. Ooof, so close. When I can stomach it, I'll have to look at that later, but I still find it a little hard to believe that that guy can hit that pitch out in that stadium.
2007-09-09 15:58:06
53.   Monterey Chris

I live in Seaside, which is on the Monterey Peninsula.

2007-09-09 16:01:15
54.   El Lay Dave
38 You're right, I forgot that there was inning in between. And I am right there with you in the "can't wait" mode.
2007-09-09 16:02:02
55.   dzzrtRatt
Is the apartment in "Under the Yum Yum Tree" (on TCM now) the same one where Bogart lived in "In A Lonely Place?"

I know I should be doing something else, but I'm trying to get over this loss.

2007-09-09 16:02:32
56.   goofus
In baseball as in life, sometimes reality defies logic. I knew it was over when Broxton came in. Nothing against Broxton, he's been great...Too great as a matter of fact. His pitching and his homer less string were so far above the norm that there had to be a certain amount of catch up by negative events. When the (Tectonic) plate shifted on the first homer he allowed, it was inevitable that there would be quite a few in a short period of time to return him closer to average. A manager who believes that might be leary of bringing him into critical situations for awhile. It's his turn in the barrel, so to speak.
2007-09-09 16:05:16
57.   Jon Weisman
No offense to any of you, but I'm glad I never know when it's over.
2007-09-09 16:06:32
58.   King of the Hobos
On Gameday, it appears to be a ball, but without the strikezone, it's tough to tell for sure. All three pitches were sliders, with very similar speeds and breaks.
2007-09-09 16:07:46
59.   scooplew
53 I live in Carmel Valley. As Dodger fans are not too common in these parts, we should get together for coffee or a beer one of these days...Ever go to the Knuckles sports bar at the Hyatt?
2007-09-09 16:10:14
60.   King of the Hobos
Leadoff double for Chris Snyder in the bottom of the 7th in Arizona. Kip Wells is done, Ankiel in with Ryan Franklin as part of a double switch.
2007-09-09 16:10:24
61.   Eric Stephen
56 Broxton has been amazing enough in his nearly two years to have earned the right to keep his job. Avoiding using him over the next week or few would be an overreaction, I think.

Now that my local Fox affiliate has switched to the Raider game, I get my Matt Vasgersian fix!

2007-09-09 16:11:05
62.   scooplew
57 So true. Just think of Morgan's last-day homer off Forster in 82, Clark's homer off Niedenfuer in '85, Gibson's homer off Eckersley in '88, the 4+1 game last year, and, going way back, the 9th inning in the third Dodgers-Giants playoff game in '62. In each of those games, and countless others, the fans of the trailing team probably thought it was over before it all turned around.
2007-09-09 16:12:44
63.   King of the Hobos
Justin Upton homers, 4-4 in Arizona
2007-09-09 16:14:41
64.   jtrichey
57 Jon, you at least do know that today's game is over right? :)
2007-09-09 16:15:03
65.   Eric Stephen
57 Good point, Jon. I thought, but did not know it was over when Saito gave up 3 runs in the 9th to make it 9-5 Padres last September 18!
2007-09-09 16:19:30
66.   dodgerkramer1
I liked the way Penny looked today through 7 innings...but he was gutless to ask to be pulled after that leadoff double.

If he was gassed then, he certainly was gassed before the inning started.

He was just trying to avoid being the losing pitcher, and that's just gutless. And classless.

He's a good pitcher, but he doesn't have enough class to be a great DODDGER. You think Koufax or Drysdale ever pulled crap like that?

2007-09-09 16:23:10
67.   Jon Weisman
64 - LOL. It is? Nuts.

66 - Can we wait to hear if this is actually true before we slam him?

2007-09-09 16:26:27
68.   dodgerkramer1
67--Fair enough. But what would blogs be if we had to wait for the watered-down, company-line, postgame explanation before we can comment?
2007-09-09 16:27:22
69.   King of the Hobos
Tony Clark just doubled in 2 runners, 6-4 Snakes.
2007-09-09 16:28:08
70.   KG16
68 - um, newspapers?
2007-09-09 16:28:36
71.   dzzrtRatt
66 "trying to avoid being the losing pitcher?"

Isn't that another way of saying "trying to prevent the Dodgers from losing the game?"

I'm on the same page with Penny on that.

2007-09-09 16:31:14
72.   dodgerkramer1
71: A pitcher with guts would have trusted his stuff after giving up one run in seven innings.
2007-09-09 16:33:11
73.   Vishal
why are we so convinced that penny pulled himself? just because he looked towards the bullpen? maybe grady sent him out to start the 8th but told him that "if anyone gets on, you're coming out".
2007-09-09 16:33:52
74.   KG16
72 - and a smart pitcher knows when he's done for the day. Do you really want a guy gutting it out with junk?
2007-09-09 16:34:55
75.   Vishal
also, speaking of penny, does it concern anyone else that he has completely lost the ability to strike anyone out? even barry zito has a higher k/9 rate this year than brad penny.
2007-09-09 16:35:25
76.   Bob Timmermann
Does anyone remember in the 1995 World Series when Orel Hershiser asked to be taken out of Game 1 because he didn't think he had anything left? The Indians pitching coach was out and was pretty surprised.

I'm guessing that Hershiser lacked intestinal fortitude after he left the Dodgers.

2007-09-09 16:36:54
77.   Vishal
57 well, nobody ever really knows, but i don't see anything wrong with having strong gut feelings about the game. when you're really connected to what's going on, that can happen.
2007-09-09 16:37:57
78.   Bob Timmermann
That's very Malcolm Gladwell-like of you.
2007-09-09 16:38:15
79.   Jon Weisman
68 - In this case, they'd be Dodger Thoughts, I guess.
2007-09-09 16:38:51
80.   Eric Stephen
73 That's certainly the most likely scenario, that Penny knew he was coming out once the runner got on.

66 ,68 ,72 It's a little much to call a player "gutless". If you want to criticize performance, that's one thing, but I think it's a bit out of line to call anyone gutless.

2007-09-09 16:42:06
81.   Vishal
78 that's gonna need some more explanation, i'm afraid. i'm not very familiar with mr. gladwell's work.
2007-09-09 16:43:00
82.   Bob Timmermann
Couldn't Penny have been looking at the bullpen because he probably thought, "Well, I gave up a hit. If someone comes out of the dugout, am I coming out of the game? Well, it looks like there are guys warmed up. I guess I'm coming out."

Although his internal monologue probably used more "entertaining" words.

2007-09-09 16:44:05
83.   Bob Timmermann
It's from Gladwell's book "Flash" where he believes people make decisions very quickly based on their perceived expertise with certain situations.
2007-09-09 16:50:01
84.   scooplew
I have no idea whether Penny wanted to be pulled out, but if he did, isn't it possible that his left elbow, where he had just been hit by a pitch, began to stiffen? Perhaps he was feeling uncomfortable.
2007-09-09 16:50:42
85.   Eric Stephen
82 I think Eliza Dushku was sitting in the seats just behind the Dodger bullpen, and before the game she said to Penny, "if you give up an extra-base hit to that punch and judy hitter Frandsen, I'm leaving you."
2007-09-09 16:51:18
86.   Bob Timmermann
The only truly gutless baseball player (now a manager) is Sadaharu Oh.
2007-09-09 16:52:44
87.   imperabo
Nomar looked awful today. His bat looked slow, and with his impatience that just about insures failure. He also looked stiff and tentative in the field. How can you not pull him when the numbers and the visual tell the same pitiful story?
2007-09-09 16:53:55
88.   Bob Timmermann
Edmonds doubles with two outs. Pujols up. It's a 2-run lead. Do you walk him?
2007-09-09 16:55:17
89.   King of the Hobos
Cards up to their last out, Pujols up, Edmonds on 2nd, 2 outs, down 2.
2007-09-09 16:56:41
90.   Bob Timmermann
Pujols was nominally unintentionally walked. Ludwick up. Eckstein on deck.
2007-09-09 16:56:57
91.   King of the Hobos
88 Apparently yes. Ryan Ludwick up now.
2007-09-09 16:58:09
92.   Bob Timmermann
Ludwick gets hit by the pitch to load 'em up for Eckstein.
2007-09-09 16:58:14
93.   D4P
In a Clutch Situation, I'd walk Eckstein to get to Pujols.
2007-09-09 16:59:23
94.   King of the Hobos
Ludwick was hit, maybe.
2007-09-09 17:00:46
95.   Bob Timmermann
Ludwick was definitely hit. The DBacks thought he had also swung.
2007-09-09 17:03:02
96.   King of the Hobos
95 My feed was fuzzy and all I heard the announcer talking about it hitting the plate. does not like me for some reason right now though.
2007-09-09 17:03:27
97.   Bob Timmermann
Eckstein walks to force in a run to make it 6-5. Yadier Molina up to pinch hit. He's the last position player for the Cardinals.
2007-09-09 17:03:37
98.   D4P
With the bases loaded, I'd walk Eckstein to get to whomever is batting behind him.
2007-09-09 17:04:44
99.   Bob Timmermann
It wouldn't make a difference if it hit the plate and bounced up. It would still be an HBP.
2007-09-09 17:05:38
100.   ToyCannon
Tough loss but it happens now and then in a 162 game schedule. How is that for perspective?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-09-09 17:07:25
101.   Bob Timmermann
Molina flies out to right. DBacks win 6-5.
2007-09-09 17:07:54
102.   Andrew Shimmin
Victory! Molina flys out to right.
2007-09-09 17:09:34
103.   D4P
I like it when the Cardinals lose.
2007-09-09 17:09:37
104.   Andrew Shimmin
That's just embarrassing. Late and misspelled. That's exactly why I never make the top ten of things.
2007-09-09 17:12:33
105.   ToyCannon
You and D4P both made my top ten list but it was a different kind of list.
2007-09-09 17:13:10
106.   Bob Timmermann
I have no opinions about the Cardinals that I am allowed to express anymore.
2007-09-09 17:13:29
107.   Andrew Shimmin
105- Don't tap your foot at me unless you mean it.
2007-09-09 17:14:37
108.   ToyCannon
I'm feeling a little more confident that at least one of the Dodgers or Diamnondbacks will make the playoffs. For some reason it would bother me if the Padres were the lone rep from the West.
2007-09-09 17:18:04
109.   Bob Timmermann
Did herm make your Top 10?
2007-09-09 17:37:29
110.   berkowit28
I think the main lesson learned should be to not bring Broxton in with inherited runners on the bases. He's just no good in that situation - it's happened several times, not just today. He's been groomed as a closer-to-be kind of holder, and that's what he excels at. Just like Saito, he might allow one hit in the inning, but that's it. Even if the hitter should hit a HR (a novelty for Broxton, but wearing thin now), that's only 1 run.

So either leave Penny in, or bring in Beimel and then leave him in.

2007-09-09 17:42:30
111.   Sam DC
20 Thx Bob. Yup -- this loss is clearly an ecumenical failure.

Gospel music in an old black church is a great, great thing.

I mean, really really great.

2007-09-09 17:43:05
112.   dzzrtRatt
Do these 'Zona fans realize what a dream world they're living in? I don't think they do. It would bug me a lot less if I didn't think most of Phoenix is just shrugging this off.
2007-09-09 17:52:46
113.   Andrew Shimmin
112- It's not a dream world, it's just an advance on the coming glory. They're still growing into deserving this, but they will deserve it, eventually.
2007-09-09 18:03:09
114.   eusmus
110 Actually, the lesson is don't overuse Broxton. I remember a couple of games ago Broxton was brought in after the bases were loaded with only one out and guess what he did? He struck out the next two batters.
2007-09-09 18:07:34
115.   Eric Stephen
110 It's not like Broxton has been awful with runners on. It's just that his 3 worst outings have come this week!

Broxton with runners on: .209/.270/.278
Beimel with runners on: .270/.328/.348

Broxton has allowed 5 of 19 inherited runners to score (26.3%), but 4 of those were Thursday and today. I'm not sure what the league average is in that situation. Beimel has allowed 10 of 47 to score (21.3%).

2007-09-09 18:09:56
116.   Bob Timmermann
Broxton has inherited 19 runners this season and 5 have scored. Four of them were on this road trip.

Beimel has inherited 47 runners and allowed 10 to score, a lot of which is a function of him just facing one batter.

Did everyone forget last Sunday's game in San Diego that Broxton pitched?

2007-09-09 18:11:02
117.   Bob Timmermann
Looks like Eric and I were looking at the exact same source at the exact same time.
2007-09-09 18:11:58
118.   Pedro Astacio
I remember it but it wasn't exactly high pressure, we were winning 5-0.
2007-09-09 18:13:15
119.   Reddog
The manager should stick with the formula that has worked before. Broxton performs badly when he comes in with men on base. He should have come in to start the 8th inning.

I remember the same thing with Gagne. He fared badly when he would be asked to pitch innings before the 9th, deviating from the formula.

2007-09-09 18:14:39
120.   D4P
Broxton is performing poorly at the end of the season because he hasn't Been There Before.
2007-09-09 18:15:04
121.   Bluebleeder87
I wasn't here but if Broxton is tired a clear indicator are his mechanics, were they off? wow, you gotta wonder.
2007-09-09 18:15:13
122.   dzzrtRatt
113 Sort of like the Twins of the first half of this decade. "Who are these guys, and why are they in first place?"
2007-09-09 18:15:16
123.   Bob Timmermann
A bases-loaded situation against a team that the Dodgers usually lose two with a 5-run deficit isn't high pressure?

The Padres two of their best hitters coming up as well: Cameron and Gonzalez.

I think some of us here won't be satisfied until we've scouted some land on Golgotha.

2007-09-09 18:15:20
124.   eusmus
118 Facing Mike Cameron and Adrian Gonzalez with the bases loaded in San Diego isn't high pressure?
2007-09-09 18:16:11
125.   Bob Timmermann
You are presuming facts that are not in evidence.
2007-09-09 18:17:27
126.   Eric Stephen
115 For the sake of completeness, here are the inherited runners numbers for the Dodger bullpen this season:

Saito - 4 of 11 (36.4%)
Broxton - 5 of 19 (26.3%)
Beimel - 10 of 47 (21.3%)
Seanez - 16 of 35 (45.7%)
Proctor - 1 of 6 (16.7%) | 10 of 37 overall (27.0%)
Hendrickson - 3 of 10 (30.0%)
Hernandez - 1 of 3 (33.3%) | 6 of 19 overall (31.6%)
Tomko - 5 of 12 (41.7%)
Billingsley - 4 of 6 (66.7%)

2007-09-09 18:18:29
127.   Vishal
102 :( i'm disappointed in you
2007-09-09 18:30:06
128.   Bob Timmermann
I went through Broxton's gamelogs and I think he's allowed 6 of 22 inherited runners to score.

If you subscribe to BR Play Index, you can pull up Broxton's gamelog and there is a red column that describes the situation when he came in and what the results were.

2007-09-09 18:32:06
129.   Bob Timmermann
And less we forget, Tsao inherited 14 runners and only one scored.
2007-09-09 18:34:32
130.   Bob Timmermann
That should be "lest" instead of "less"
2007-09-09 18:38:21
131.   Eric Stephen
128 Thanks Bob. I was using ESPN for my stats, which is like dealing with the devil.
2007-09-09 18:41:13
132.   Eric Stephen
128 It might be 7 of 21 runners scored. Just totaling up the IR and IS columns give 5 for 19 before today's game.
2007-09-09 19:01:24
133.   King of the Hobos
Third player in as many days:

2007-09-09 19:07:16
134.   Gen3Blue
More HGH? The players union needs to go down, and fast.
2007-09-09 19:11:46
135.   Jon Weisman
The utter mythmaking about a player's career when he has one bad week is very frustrating.
2007-09-09 19:17:45
136.   Gen3Blue
Are there term limits for the governer of California.
2007-09-09 19:31:08
137.   Bluebleeder87
I didn't see what happened with Broxton so I'll just hold judgment.
2007-09-09 19:40:13
138.   xaphor
A sure moneymaker, The Unofficial Dodgers Jump To Conclusions Mat.

Late inning loss got you frustrated, roll out our patented mat and "Jump" to your "Conclusions". Featuring such well worn hot spots as Ned Colletti's Signings, Grady Little's Managing, Brad Penny's Emotional State, Not Enough Youth, Too Much Youth, and of course Juan Pierre.

It's fun for the entire family and now comes with a deck of scenario cards so you can enjoy the thrill of Dodger baseball over the off-season. Get yours today!

2007-09-09 19:44:25
139.   Andrew Shimmin
136- Yes.
2007-09-09 20:06:10
140.   Bob Timmermann
Timmermann in 2010!
2007-09-09 20:10:43
141.   berkowit28
128 et al: I see that someone called Griffster (who appears to be someone other than Joshua Worley) at Dodgerama has addressed this issue in some detail.
2007-09-09 20:10:54
142.   Vishal
i wouldn't mind running for governor one day. this is the greatest state in the union, after all.
2007-09-09 20:13:22
143.   Bob Timmermann
Anyone know the minimum age to be governor of California?
2007-09-09 20:14:22
144.   Suffering Bruin
Just checking in while working on the never-ending job that is teaching...

138 I sense sarcasm. :)

I confess I've been guilty of virtually everything you've called attention to in your post. I suppose you're right--getting frustrated to the point where you jump to conclusions that later turn out to be less than well thought out isn't all that useful.


Ain't this the place to do it? Provided we follow the guidelines, provided we take the advice of philosopher King (no, not that one) "Can't we all just get along?", we can get away with a few frustrations unleashed no matter how nonsensical they sound. I can count on two things here--sympathy and perspective. It's why I feel safe to blast Ned's penchant for signing vets, Grady's using of said vets, Brad's September biorhythms, young legs on the bench and, of course, Juan Pierre.

Keep posting, people. I'm reading when I have the time. Go Dodgers!

2007-09-09 20:15:02
145.   Suffering Bruin
143 You mean you don't? Or is this trivia?
2007-09-09 20:18:30
146.   Andrew Shimmin
143- I'm going to guess 18, since the only thing the constitution requires is that he be an "elector who has been a citizen of the United States and a resident of this State for 5 years immediately preceding the Governor's election."
2007-09-09 20:19:52
147.   Vishal
yeah, i think it's just voting age. but they're not gonna elect a 26-year old (29 in 2010...) with no history in elective office beyond high school student senate as governor of california :)
2007-09-09 20:23:35
148.   Andrew Shimmin
147- Well, that depends. How many movies have you been in?
2007-09-09 20:40:02
149.   Vishal
hmm... fair enough. though maybe i could become a musician instead?
2007-09-09 20:43:06
150.   Bob Timmermann
I knew the answer. Don't ask a question you don't the answer to.

That's what they taught me in law school. Or possibly an episode of "Law and Order."

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-09-09 20:49:12
151.   xaphor
Will our future governor be covering the fairer sex on their quest for footy and sports bra immortality?
2007-09-09 21:02:45
152.   dzzrtRatt
It just hit me: I will be out of town all next week. I will miss the Padre and Arizona series both. In fact, it will be difficult to even monitor them. I'll have to replay them thru Dodger Thoughts.

Someone should invent a widget that would allow you to rerun the GameDay in sync with Dodger Thoughts, with the option of speeding up, slowing down or replaying a section. To watch the remarks jump out of DT while you're watching the game would be fun.

2007-09-09 21:08:25
153.   Jon Weisman
150 - It was "A Few Good Men."

New posts at Screen Jam and Season Pass.

2007-09-09 21:09:55
154.   Jon Weisman
Hmm ... there seems to be trouble with the link. Try:

or just

2007-09-09 21:11:52
155.   Jon Weisman
152 - Pop-Up Video!
2007-09-09 21:19:48
156.   KG16
153 - although, they do teach you that in law school
2007-09-09 21:38:43
157.   xaphor
The first link worked fine for me.

That certainly is an interesting colour scheme they got for you guys over there.

Not seen CYE since its premiere season, but I am on the lookout for the upcoming McEnroe episode. Could be interesting.

2007-09-09 21:41:46
158.   Bill Crain
This just in: Bob's research is not perfect.

Malcolm Gladwell's second book was titled Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking

I knew that instantly.

2007-09-09 22:36:27
159.   Bob Timmermann
I liked my title better.
2007-09-09 22:42:21
160.   NorCal-Dodger
I was dragged away from the TV at the top of the 7th, listened with utter dismay on the radio as the team let another opportunity get away.

Guess the game is about was was very unlikely that we would sweep every game at Phone Booth Park for the entire season, short of a Furcal error and Broxton being possessed with the ghost of Bombko, the unlikely may have been a probability.

At this juncture it's win or go home, the next 6 games will dictate whether we're still contenders or pretenders.

My last comment to relieve my pent up frustration..."The Gnats still s..k's even in a season where they s**k"

2007-09-09 23:22:45
161.   dzzrtRatt
I paid no attention to the NFL today, so I just saw that the Oakland Raiders lost their home the Detroit Lions!

Ever since the Rams and Raiders' departure, I take much greater pleasure in rooting against certain teams than for them, and the two LA getaway teams are at the top of the list. The Raiders are establishing a dynasty of terribleness, and I couldn't be happier.

2007-09-09 23:53:11
162.   natepurcell
in tribute to last nights thread, i went to myheritage face recognition dealio and put in a photo of me. first match of 66%....

Haley Joel Osment.

well that's a lie, i can grow a beard!

2007-09-10 00:04:31
163.   El Lay Dave
162 When you look at parts of the Dodgers' bullpen, do you see dead people? Tom Niedenfuer's right-arm dangling, ready to fall off from overuse?
2007-09-10 00:04:49
164.   regfairfield
You know who wouldn't have given up that home run today? Tom Gordon. Get on the phone, Ned.

It's incredibly depressing that I had to hear my Dad make a Neidenfuerer comparison today, while trying to estimate how many stories about Broxton would be made up here. The man is a very, very good pitcher, but allowing no home runs in 93 games is not normal at all and is due for a regression. Hasn't the fact that Broxton has been lights out for the last two years earned him any slack for a bad week?

2007-09-10 00:25:21
165.   Andrew Shimmin
164- Don't act like there aren't fully fifteen pitchers in the MLB with a higher WXRL, this year. We all hope that Broxton can grow into the role of an excellent relief pitcher, but he's got to learn how to not disappoint us immediately before it occurs to us to consider his strengths and weaknesses.
2007-09-10 00:26:32
166.   El Lay Dave
164 I'm cutting Broxton slack. (On the other hand, before Sunday, Broxton and Beimel were tied for 2nd and 4th in the NL for appearances, respectively, so perhaps the "overuse" argument can't be dismissed too easily. Broxton won't rack up over 100 IP, like '85 Niedenfuer or '06 Proctor.)
2007-09-10 00:28:38
167.   Andrew Shimmin
Huh, BP his Gagne's WXRLs listed separately by team. He was 37th, in Texas. He's 693rd in Boston. Brutal. Roberto Hernandez is 680th. Tomko is 678th.
2007-09-10 00:42:51
168.   El Lay Dave
167 Wells?
2007-09-10 00:51:37
169.   Andrew Shimmin
168- He hasn't pitched in relief this year.
2007-09-10 01:02:20
170.   El Lay Dave
From Tony Jackson's Daily article:

"(Penny) had pitched far too good of a game to be put in a position to lose the game right there [when he was replaced]," Little said.
Grady learning the Pedro lesson? Only he left Pedro in to throw 124 pitches. Penny had thrown 82. Sometimes the cliche that you stay with the guy that got you here is still right.

"It was in all of our minds that we would take him out (of) there if there were any baserunners," Little said. "The leadoff hitter hit a double. But the wild pitch was the key to that whole sequence of things."
Did they (Little, Honeycutt?, Jauss?, Penny?) think Penny looked like he was losing something? Jackson calls Grady on the silliness of the wild pitch comment:

It allowed Frandsen to move into third, which forced the infield to move in. But even that didn't make much of a difference given the way the rest of the inning played out.
Does one pitch to Bonds differently with the runner on third or second? After Bonds is walked, does one pitch to Durham differently? (I don't remember, did the Dodger play infield in or double-play depth with Durham up and one out?)

"I was trying to throw him the same pitch, down in the dirt, and I just left it up," Broxton said. "It was the right pitch, but I just didn't execute it like I should have. I feel fine. I'm not tired out there. I just made a mistake, and it cost me. I have no idea (why the sudden tendency to give up homers). I'm just not executing pitches. (Friday) night, it was a fastball right over the middle of the plate, and it cost me there, too."
Sounds like Broxton missed by a lot on that slider then. Jackson also points out that this was Broxton's four consecutive appearance.

2007-09-10 01:03:54
171.   El Lay Dave
169 I was really trying to get to Wells vs. Tomko in WXRL as starters.
2007-09-10 04:11:52
172.   goofus
Just as some of us here will lose (or have lost) confidence in Broxton being able to come in with runners on base, the bigger danger is that he himself will start believing it. In sports (and life), if you think you can't do something, you can't
2007-09-10 04:37:57
173.   Sam DC
Well, Grady, was the wild pitch "the key to the whole sequence of things" or did it not "make much of a difference the way the rest of the inning played out"?
2007-09-10 06:00:05
174.   tjshere
162 You mean you can but you don't?? I thought you worshipped facial hair?
2007-09-10 07:15:20
175.   Disabled List
160 Broxton being possessed with the ghost of Bombko

I have a more plausible theory along those lines. Upon hearing of his impending DFA, Tomko kidnapped Broxton and took his place in the bullpen. That's been Tomko out there wearing a Broxton suit this whole time, while the real Broxton is watching TV chained up in Tomko's basement, like Sloth from "The Goonies."

This is the only rational, realistic explanation for the spike in Bull's HR rate. I mean, has anyone seen Tomko and Broxton together in the same place at the same time since Tomko was DFA'd??? I didn't think so.

2007-09-10 07:18:43
176.   Jon Weisman
Seems to me that Little was the one who lacked faith in Penny, as opposed to the accusations yesterday that Penny lacked faith in himself.

It's interesting that the only Dodger starting pitcher in the past four days left to get himself out of his own late-inning, one-run-lead jam was Wells, right?

2007-09-10 07:35:42
177.   Bob Timmermann
Sort of like me trying to do implicit differentiation in calculus.
2007-09-10 07:54:54
178.   Ken Arneson
I, for one, would not vote for Bob for Governor of California. I fear he will declare war on Delaware.
2007-09-10 07:57:17
179.   Gen3Blue
177 That now seems like a real possibility.

I have thought a lot about the situation and it still makes me uncomfortable. But the truth is we probably won't know a lot of things That the people involved do, such as how Penny was feeling and who he had discussed it with. I also realize that I was influenced by the announcers I was listening to. I saw Penny's look toward the bullpen and dugout, but I was listening to the spin being put on it. These guys implied it was a prearranged move to avoid Penny's taking a loss. Hearing that may have influenced me more than it should.

I'm still not happy about it. I guess I would feel better if at that pitch count(low for Penny) Grits had left him in, or Penny, not known for hiding his emotion, got pissed about being pulled.

2007-09-10 08:00:07
180.   Jon Weisman
179 - Penny has been ripped mercilessly by perhaps the most influential sportswriter in Los Angeles each time he has showed emotion. It's absolutely a no-win situation (no pun intended) for him to protest being taken out at this point.
2007-09-10 08:19:56
181.   Gen3Blue
180 Thats also a factor, that I don't feel as intensely on the east coast. I don't feel that down on Penny, no matter what the case, as someone mentioned, he would have every reason to think the result would be good with our bull-pen.
Something just feels wrong, but thats nothing new for me after a few games like this.
2007-09-10 08:24:28
182.   D4P
If the Rockies were to beat the Phillies tonight, they would join the Dodgers at 75-68 for the season.
2007-09-10 08:45:00
183.   LogikReader
Morning guys

To avoid several rule violations I held out until this morning. Now about yesterday's game: This was frustrating. Thats about all I can say and still be "legal".

I'm gonna a short break from Dodger Baseball and hopefully they can rally a bit while I'm away. Hey we all have our superstitions

2007-09-10 09:00:18
184.   LAT
Dodgers will play well this week and then blow it over the weekend.

How can I be so sure? Deadline to get money in for playoff tickets is Friday Sept. 14.

PT Barnum says I will buy play-off tickets.

2007-09-10 09:21:45
185.   still bevens
184 I found a stack of 06 playoff tickets last week in my nightstand. I had tickets to game four of the NLCS and all they had to do was WIN JUST ONE GAME and I could have lived the dream. Perhaps I will hold off on buying playoff tickets this year.. for the team's sake.
2007-09-10 09:27:27
186.   LogikReader
The "short break" is an excuse to watch "The Office" season 3 on DVD while I wait for the S4 season premiere.

I won't get the discs until Thursday so I only have a week to catch up!

2007-09-10 09:30:53
187.   Bob Timmermann
I think you wanted a D instead of a C there.
2007-09-10 09:51:57
188.   screwballin
I'm having a hard time interpreting every Hillenbrand start as anything other than extreme management negligence. What is he, our fourth best option now at 3b?

At least when you put in Broxton, you've got a great track record to back up the decision. With Hillenbrand, you've got nothing to recommend him over the other options. If we blow this, he will be the Early Vacation Poster Boy in my mind.

2007-09-10 09:54:15
189.   Summer Saint
I'm going to be at the game on Friday night, in the all you can eat section. My friends and I jokingly refer to it as the "Everything That's Wrong With America" section.

Is there anything I should know prior to going? Do you guys have any tips or tricks to make sure I get the most out of the experience?

2007-09-10 09:56:25
190.   screwballin
Inning one, binge
Inning two, purge

Repeat until you pass out

Works for me every time

2007-09-10 09:56:40
191.   D4P
Dodger third basemen, in order of descending OPS:

0.750 W. Betemit
0.748 N. Garciaparra
0.736 Tony Abreu
0.689 Andy LaRoche
0.668 R. Martinez
0.626 S. Hillenbrand
0.513 Wilson Valdez
0.333 Olmedo Saenz

2007-09-10 09:57:04
192.   screwballin
And yes, I am everything that's wrong with America.
2007-09-10 10:07:22
193.   regfairfield
189 I recommend attempting the Dog challenge. Nine dogs, nine innings.

Advanced people can add nine beers on to that.

2007-09-10 10:10:39
194.   fanerman
193 At A's games, they have (had?) $2 Tuesdays, where tickets were $2 and hot dogs were $1. I think I once was silly enough to just eat 5 hot dogs for "dinner." And that was a bit foul. Not "throw up" foul, but something I don't think I could ever do again.
2007-09-10 10:16:50
195.   D4P
Isn't it kinda weird that the lives of pigs depend in part upon ballpark promotions designed to get more people to attend the games?
2007-09-10 10:20:49
196.   still bevens
Remember when we had $2 tuesdays and it lasted all of two weeks before we proved that we didn't deserve nice things?
2007-09-10 10:25:41
197.   blue22
I feel compelled to state that a Dodger Dog has about 20 grams of fat, approx. 400 calories, and a cool 800 mgs of sodium.

5 of those, sure I could see that, but 9? Good gravy! (mmm...gravy...)

2007-09-10 10:31:31
198.   Summer Saint
197 - By the time I'm done, I plan to be sweating gravy.
2007-09-10 10:31:44
199.   Bob Timmermann
Two dollar Tuesdays quickly devolved into scenes out of "Mad Max" or "Fort Apache, The Bronx."
2007-09-10 10:34:07
200.   Sam DC
Adrian Beltre -- underpaid and underappreciated.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-09-10 10:34:25
201.   regfairfield
197 Hence the word challenge.
2007-09-10 10:48:14
202.   Vishal
200 i was against re-signing him at the time, but considering the type of sinkhole third base has been the past few years, maybe it wouldn't have been such a bad idea.
2007-09-10 10:50:16
203.   regfairfield
202 Do we make the playoffs last year with Drew/Betemit and others at third versus Beltre/(Kemp, Repko, Cruz, Ethier). I don't know.
2007-09-10 10:52:13
204.   JoeyP
200--I dont the USSMariner has an appreciation for the other years of Beltre's career, you know the ones where he was thoroughly mediocre.

This year, he's SLG'ing way more than his career numbers.

He's having a career year SLG'ing.

So what?
Unless they think he can sustain it, it could just be a blip in the radar.

2007-09-10 10:52:57
205.   regfairfield
204 He's always been a fan of Beltre.
2007-09-10 10:55:37
206.   Vishal
203 why does that necessarily matter? we didn't do anything in the playoffs, so just making them versus not making them in any given year isn't really of significant value, right? maybe a few million dollars. and even then, like you said, it's hard to say that we wouldn't have made it with beltre instead.
2007-09-10 10:59:14
207.   Vishal
204 he SLGed .629 in 2004. this year he's slugging .502, and in the past he has slugged .475 and .465. this year isn't NEARLY as far above his established levels as 2004 was.
2007-09-10 10:59:17
208.   regfairfield
206 It's pretty much for that few million dollars, plus other things like an attendance bump the following year. There is definitely value to be had just by making the playoffs.

Also in Beltre's favor is that UZR has him as the seventh best defensive player in baseball since 2003. If the Dodgers could have signed Beltre for what he's making now, it certainly wouldn't be a bad thing, but we'd probably just be swapping one hole for another one.

2007-09-10 11:04:58
209.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-09-10 11:05:41
210.   Vishal
208 right, but you yourself said that it's not clear whether keeping beltre would have meant no playoffs last year as opposed to what we had. and then you have to consider the longer term effect. what about the hole that drew's departure created, which has led to the signing of pierre? and third base is STILL a problem, whereas we do have talent in the OF in kemp and ethier. i know laroche is coming, but he hasn't been much help this year so far.
2007-09-10 11:37:32
211.   WillieD
189 Drink some beer beforehand, if you can safely, to help increase your appetitite. Get to the game early, as the all you can eat part starts well before the game, and ends before the game does. Have a great time, and please post about your experience later.
2007-09-10 15:29:43
212.   Andrew Shimmin
171 - Didn't mean to leave you hanging; I'm pretty sure WXRL only gets measured for relief pitchers appearances. I don't really know why. It's another one of their propriety blends, so without knowing what goes in it, it makes guessing why it's only useful where it is, difficult.

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