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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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50 Awaits
2007-09-12 14:51
by Jon Weisman

The Dodgers have begun preparing for next year's 50th anniversary celebration of the team's first season in Los Angeles. Click the link for lots of details. Of course, it will also be the 20th anniversary of the team's last World Series title, unless there's a nifty comeback in the next 18 days.

* * *

Derek Lowe will miss tonight's start as a result of Tuesday's pregame hand injury, according to Inside the Dodgers. Chad Billingsley will take the mound on four days' rest.

Andy LaRoche has been disappeared (figuratively) without explanation. Tony Abreu will start at third base.

Comments (125)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-12 14:56:48
1.   underdog
D'oh. I was LATed, which is better than being underdogged.
Hopefully Lowe just needs an extra day of rest and can go tomorrow. Hope Bills can pitch all right with one less day of rest. And on the bright side, I'll take Abreu over Nomar or Shea at this point.

Maybe Andy is hurting again - maybe sprained his pythag?

Either that he's in der hundhaus?

A world series next year would be a nice way to celebrate both anniversaries!

2007-09-12 14:57:55
2.   LogikReader
Just got LAT'd for the first time.

I have a basic question: Which hurt the team more this year, the lack of slugging production from part of the team or the lack of reliable starting pitching [6+ inning starts]?

[...and what's a better stat, OPS or OPS+?]

2007-09-12 14:57:58
3.   blue22
What happened with Lowe and Broxton? I guess I missed that item...

And at least per Josh, Lowe is out a couple days, as Wells gets the ball tomorrow.

2007-09-12 14:58:22
4.   silverwidow
Did anyone watch Andy's ABs against Germano in San Diego? The first two were poor. That was probably the rationale for him not starting.
2007-09-12 14:58:40
5.   Bluebleeder87
Well if anything at least it's Bills pitching tonight. It can't be a good omen that our pitchers our dropping like flies
2007-09-12 15:01:19
6.   underdog
3 Broxton and he were playing catch, a ball thrown back to Lowe missed his gloved hand and hit his throwing hand, bruised the top of it I think. Nothing serious, but nerve racking and bad timing regardless.

4 Right two starts, where he outproduced the other 3rd basemen, and 2 poor at bats. I'm sure that was it for his audition!

2007-09-12 15:01:38
7.   ToyCannon
"Fans will have the opportunity to purchase commemorative merchandise specifically made to celebrate the 50th anniversary at Dodgers retail stores. Additional items featuring the 50th anniversary's official logo will be available at retail stores next season. "

Lucky us.

2007-09-12 15:03:54
8.   Summer Saint
2 OPS+. It provides more insight into how well that player performed during the season (or other measured stretch of time) relative to other players, as well as how park factors affected their production.

Unfortunately it doesn't factor position played into it, though, which to me is one of its major shortcomings. EqA, on the other hand, does this. I just don't know of a place that lets you search for players and find their season EqA, the way Baseball-Reference allows for searching for a player and OPS+.

2007-09-12 15:05:55
9.   silverwidow
6 -- I'm not giving any opinion on the matter, just explaining the likely reason why he's not in there.
2007-09-12 15:08:16
10.   underdog
9 No, I know, I was just facetiously deriding the Dodgers' and their impatience...
2007-09-12 15:08:43
11.   Howard Fox
4 i think it has to do with arm angles...or maybe he walks too slowly to first after all his bases on balls...or maybe his brother hit a big home run against us once...
2007-09-12 15:09:04
12.   ToyCannon
2007-09-12 15:09:09
13.   Howard Fox
or maybe Abreu reminds Little of an old guy
2007-09-12 15:10:19
14.   ToyCannon
He does have a hernia injury.
2007-09-12 15:10:25
15.   Linkmeister
10 Comrade! Derision not allowed! State knows best!
2007-09-12 15:10:30
16.   Gen3Blue
This is disturbing hearing things like Lowe is hurt and maybe Laroche in just one post, but I've looked around a bit and at think I sort of understand what is going on.
I personally think getting more than normal rest because of days without games is very suspect. Perhaps the 4-man vs. 5-man rotation dispute has been settled but I am very suspicious that for healthy young men more than 4 days rest does any good. I think a team should pitch its best pitcher available with four days rest, and was appalled earlier when the D's because of off days gave 3 their best pitchers 5 rest days to make sure Tomko got his regular turn in the rotation. Whats with this malarky, anyway.
2007-09-12 15:11:08
17.   Howard Fox
14 and a gray hair...mystery solved!
2007-09-12 15:12:13
18.   JoeyP
The good news is that Gonzo/Nomar arent in the lineup.

Take out Pierre and it'd be almost ideal.

2007-09-12 15:13:00
19.   Jon Weisman
8 - I'm not aware that EQA takes position played into account. A .260 EQA is an average hitter's EQA, regardless of position.

2007-09-12 15:13:02
20.   Howard Fox
maybe put Nomar in CF?
2007-09-12 15:15:32
21.   underdog
18 Agreed.

20 Or Delwyn, another member of Club Disappeared.

2007-09-12 15:15:43
22.   El Lay Dave
16 but I am very suspicious that for healthy young men more than 4 days rest does any good

This year, Peavy is better on 5 days rest (10 starts) than 4 (17 starts). His career stats are better on 5 also. (Just one counterexample, not a proof either way.)

2007-09-12 15:17:03
23.   bhsportsguy
21 Well Delwyn wasn't going to play that much regardless of being called up.
2007-09-12 15:18:05
24.   Howard Fox
21 I like Delwyn alot, I suspect they are saving him for a big year in 2008 or 09 with another team, maybe the DRays...there must be another pitcher we can trade for over there
2007-09-12 15:21:01
25.   bhsportsguy
24 I know we are having fun since I think the last thing the D-Rays need is an out of options outfielder.
2007-09-12 15:21:12
26.   underdog
23 No, but I still fantasize about the idea of Pierre resting at some point, and Young would likely out hit him.
2007-09-12 15:21:18
27.   El Lay Dave
8 In B-R, if you look at a player's position splits, there is an sOPS+ shown per position.

For example, Nomar's overall 2007 OPS+ is 75, but for 3B: 88 and for 1B: 60.

sOPS+ - OPS+ of this split relative to the major league OPS for this split: 100 x((split OBP/ML avg. OBP of split) + (split SLG/ML avg. SLG of split) - 1)

2007-09-12 15:23:21
28.   blue22
VORP (and the WARPs, which I believe are derivatives of VORP) does take position into account, but it's a counting stat not a rate stat. Those are the only "common" stats I know of that are normalized to a position.
2007-09-12 15:23:31
29.   Icaros
They must really hate LaRoche if they're benching him for a guy they publicly accused of faking an injury.
2007-09-12 15:23:32
30.   Howard Fox
25 and the last thing we need is another middle reliever who thinks he is a starter
2007-09-12 15:23:59
31.   bhsportsguy
26 Would he hit for more power, definitely. But would he outhit him in the traditional sense, Pierre is batting .307 in the second half (.714 OPS, .347 OBP), that I'm not too sure about.

Pierre's second half is a typical Juan Pierre second half and he has stolen 22 out of 24.

2007-09-12 15:25:54
32.   trainwreck
How about we sign A-Rod, put him at short and then move Furcal to CF.

Now I am off to go fly in my spaceship with Jessica Alba.

2007-09-12 15:27:02
33.   Summer Saint
12 19 27

Hey, cool. I didn't know about most of those, and I could have sworn that EqA took into account player position. Thanks for the corrections!

2007-09-12 15:28:42
34.   Bluebleeder87
as long as Atenislao Abreu doesn't swing at everything with in the doppler radar I'm o.k. with it, & it would be nice to see Meloan pitch again.
2007-09-12 15:29:55
35.   bhsportsguy
I don't think there is any mystery about Andy LaRoche, they have 4 guys (Nomar, Shea, Andy and Tony) who have started at some point and none have ever "taken" the job so Grady will keep rotating them.

3B and the corner OF spots are the only lineup spots that Grady can use to satisfy his roster with playing time since he generally refuses to mess with the middle of the diamond (C, 2B, SS, CF) and Loney is now established at 1B.

So that is what he is doing. No conspiracy, no mystery.

2007-09-12 15:30:52
36.   Howard Fox
32 I'd like to move Furcal to another team, the last thing we need is a singles hitter who thinks he is a power hitter. And I'm not so impressed with his defense, no matter how much range everyone says he has. What's the point of getting to balls no one else can, if the result is an error? Better a shortstop who can't get to the ball, take the single rather than a 2 base error.
2007-09-12 15:31:52
37.   El Lay Dave
27 sOPS+ is only for the PAs while playing the position, so it sort of assumes that the position you play affects how you hit. Perhaps what would be more useful to know is how the overall OPS+ compares to others who primarily play that position.
2007-09-12 15:33:06
38.   Bluebleeder87
so Grady will keep rotating them.

I see your point BHSportsguy, but one can also argue that that's why so many errors/instability comes out of that position, but that's just one way to look at it.

2007-09-12 15:35:27
39.   underdog
35 Fair 'nuf, and I think it was fair they tried Nomar when he came back to see what kind of playing shape he was in. When it was obvious he can't do much, they rotate the other guys. But seriously, no LaRoche at all in a week? There may not be a conspiracy, but let's just say I don't agree with it. He's clearly the best option of the 4, imho. But again, I like Abreu, too, and if it's him over the other 2, that's okay by me, also.
2007-09-12 15:36:43
40.   bhsportsguy
38 Not saying I agree with it, just stating what I see is happening.

36 I do think you have give Rafael Furcal a mulligan for this year, not counting this season, last 3-4 years, averaged 30+ doubles, 8 triples, 12 homers, not A-Rod but not the guy we have seen this year playing on a chronically sore ankle.

2007-09-12 15:36:54
41.   blue22
35 - So LaRoche is a victim of the instantaneous success they've seen from Martin, Ethier, Kemp and Loney. Either hit .340 right out of the gate and command the position, or get in line with the rest of the schlubs (and even then it might not be enough).

Obviously LA has been very fortunate with the success that they've had from that group, but it has shielded them from the growing pains that rookies usually deal with, and benefit from being able to play through them.

2007-09-12 15:36:55
42.   Bluebleeder87
38 continued.

mix in a guy like Hillenbrand in that equation & you've got your self a mess.

2007-09-12 15:37:16
43.   El Lay Dave
35 Sorted by OPS+ :

Abreu 86
LaRoche 79
Nomar 75
Hillenbrand 55

Yet we've seen Hillenbrand more recently than LaRoche. This is Abreu's first start at 3B since 7/6.

2007-09-12 15:41:23
44.   Howard Fox
40 a mulligan? maybe...

in re: LaRoche, the general concensus here seems to be he is the second coming...and various periodicals note him as the best we got in the me, he seems overmatched at the plate...maybe he is young, maybe I don't know what I am talking about, but he doesn't have that "look" that Kemp had even when he struggled last year...imho

2007-09-12 15:41:59
45.   El Lay Dave
41 Maybe this is the start of an Abreu / LaRoche platoon. I don't know Abreu's minor-league splits, but the small major league sample shows a decided advantage hitting LH:

Abreu LH: .319 .354 .407 .760
Abreu RH: .194 .256 .389 .645

2007-09-12 15:43:04
46.   Howard Fox
45 I hope not, I really like Abreu at the plate and especially in the field
2007-09-12 15:43:40
47.   eusmus
44 ... I wonder if the Dodger brass of Christmas past thought the same thing when they traded Paul Konerko.
2007-09-12 15:43:59
48.   El Lay Dave
44 He has the credentials. It remains to be seen if he has the shoulder and back. He's been hurt this season and the "overmatched" look might just be "cautious". My humble guess.
2007-09-12 15:45:05
49.   Howard Fox
47 are you saying a trade for Kemp is in the works? just kidding
2007-09-12 15:47:54
50.   jasonungar07
Well someone here posted that we were 4-0 with LaRoche as a starter in September and I belive under .500 with Shea and Nomar starting. On that alone, given the situation, why mess with it. Even if LaRoche was completely useless out there (which he wasn't) just roll with it.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-12 15:48:29
51.   King of the Hobos
11 The only game I can think of that Adam hurt the Dodgers was:

Of course, Ned/Grady were not yet with the team. And we had Milton Bradley.

2007-09-12 15:48:31
52.   Dodgers49
25. 24 I know we are having fun since I think the last thing the D-Rays need is an out of options outfielder.

But why would Delwyn Young be out of options? I only recall him being on the team last September and this year and I only recall him being option back to the minors this year. Which years did I miss?

2007-09-12 15:51:44
53.   regfairfield
52 Once you're on the 40 man, any year you spend in the minors counts as an option year.
2007-09-12 15:51:52
54.   eusmus
50 I seem to remember someone here making the same arguement as a reason to keep playing Shea. I'd rather they just moved LaRoche out of the 8th spot for awhile... Grady gave Nomar the same courtesy, why not LaRoche?
2007-09-12 15:51:56
55.   bhsportsguy
41 LaRoche's timing is off this year and yes, right now Andy is going to be compared with the other kids.

I looked back at the Dodgers since 1998, as far as position players go (and this probably goes more for the talent available than a philosophy) but I see only Adrian Beltre (1998), Paul Lo Duca (2001) and Dave Roberts and Cesar Izturis (2002) as the young (and really only Beltre and Izturis were young) players who were handed starting jobs and played through whatever ups and downs they had. Certainly Lo Duca had big first full season and Roberts did okay. Izturis played such fine defense, his hitting ability was overlooked and Beltre probably shouldn't have been playing for the team at age 19.

Now, none of those guys have the upside of Kemp or LaRoche but as someone who has watched this team for a long time, transitioning new players in is not an exact science and while it may be true that the team would have been better off just handing some of these guys the keys early on, it is certainly not a tradition in LA for that to happen.

2007-09-12 15:52:30
56.   Icaros

What do you like about Abreu at the plate? I don't think I've ever seen him take a pitch.

2007-09-12 15:55:25
57.   bhsportsguy
55 I guess Beltre had a high ceiling at age 19 and he certainly he is among the better overall third basemen but not the all-star we thought we had after his big numbers at Vero Beach.
2007-09-12 15:55:54
58.   regfairfield
55 Wasn't Roberts 30 when he came to the Dodgers? Wasn't Lo Duca 27ish?
2007-09-12 15:57:38
59.   bhsportsguy
58 I said only Beltre and Izzy were young, but you are correct, Lo Duca was 29 in 2001.
2007-09-12 15:57:48
60.   King of the Hobos
50 We're 4-0 with Laroche, and 1-5 with Nomar Shea (Shea played the winning game)

45 Abreu actually had an opposite split in the minors (.856 OPS as lefty, and 1.090 as a righty). However both sets are far to small to determine anything from. Over the last three years, Abreu has hit slightly better as a lefty, but nothing significant.

2007-09-12 15:59:27
61.   regfairfield
59 Ah, sorry.
2007-09-12 16:00:29
62.   Howard Fox
56 I guess I like hackers...that's why I like golf
2007-09-12 16:00:55
63.   Bluebleeder87
and while it may be true that the team would have been better off just handing some of these guys the keys early on, it is certainly not a tradition in LA for that to happen.

Thanks for reminding me of that, your right. In theory you'd think it's better for one guy to man a position instead of having what we have now, this little exchange is making me miss Beltre.

2007-09-12 16:02:13
64.   Xeifrank
Dodgers chances of making the playoffs now sits at 9.5% after last nights humiliating defeat at the hands of B.Tomko and company. Here is the effect tonight's games will have on these odds. vr, Xei

Dodgers 4.5 Padres -4.4
Giants 0.5 D-Backs -0.6
Phillies -0.3 Rockies 0.3
Worst -5.31 5.35 Best

2007-09-12 16:02:34
65.   Howard Fox
56 he is solid in the field, runs fast, is aggressive at the plate...just like Pierre, except for the solid in the field bit and the aggressive at the plate part
2007-09-12 16:03:40
66.   bhsportsguy
Even if Jeff Kent returns next year, if Andy LaRoche can hold down third base, the Dodgers average age at the start of the season will be about 27 years old.
Martin - 24
Loney - 23
Kent - 40
Furcal - 30
LaRoche - 24
Ethier - 25
Pierre - 30
Kemp - 23

If you add Hu (25) and Abreu (24)at SS and 2B in 2009, the average is just over 25.

2007-09-12 16:03:41
67.   Icaros

LOL. What about computers?

2007-09-12 16:05:33
68.   Howard Fox
62 them too
2007-09-12 16:05:48
69.   bhsportsguy
Sorry, Russell will be 25 at the start of next year.
2007-09-12 16:06:47
70.   Howard Fox
68 was meant to reference 67 not 62 or any other post, like 56 or 66
2007-09-12 16:07:07
71.   Icaros

We may have different definitions of "aggressive." To me, Pierre is the epitome of an aggressive hitter, like Nomar.

2007-09-12 16:08:07
72.   Curtis Lowe
71 - An aggresive moth.
2007-09-12 16:09:48
73.   Gen3Blue
22 El Dave; sorry to take so long to respond but I was out for a while. Just to make sure we are discussing the same thing do you mean Peavy has started on his 6th day after his last start. Thats what I mean by five days rest. If so the Pads, are being very generous. And if it seems to work, I guess they are being smart.
2007-09-12 16:10:16
74.   Howard Fox
71 that post was meant as a joke, needless to say...a bit redundant, if I do say so myself...

wow, season must be about over, I'm babbling worse than ever, not much to really say about the D's anymore

2007-09-12 16:15:40
75.   bhsportsguy
In 1973, the eight players that were in the lineup the most were all from the Dodger organization. In 1974, it went down to 7 (ToyCannon).

The Dodgers have never been very good at developing outfielders maybe a one decent player a decade, sometimes two. Amd again, for about 15-16 years, the farm system produced very little, especially first round picks.

2007-09-12 16:16:36
76.   Jon Weisman
Logan White is lumped in a group compared to Paula Marshall - and it's a criticism, no less!

2007-09-12 16:19:31
77.   Curtis Lowe
76 - Good hopefully the Astro's owner takes these hack pieces seriously.
2007-09-12 16:21:30
78.   King of the Hobos
If anyone's interested, Abreu's platoon splits over the last 3 years (includes stats from Vero, Jax, Vegas, and LA):

vs LHP (as RH): 420 PA, .300/.329/.424/.753
vs RHP (as LH): 1002 PA, .314/.354/.434/.788

2007-09-12 16:25:05
79.   regfairfield
What do you think Dustin Pedroia would be doing this year if he were a Dodger? After hitting .191/.258/.303 in 98 PA in 2006, he started the year hitting .172/.294/.224 in his first 68 PA this year. Would he ever get a chance in this organization? Would he be traded for Tom Gordon? Would he be hearing things from various fandoms like "he doesn't look like a ball player (especailly applicable in Pedroia's case).

Also, it is sort of amazing how one of the biggest things PECOTA has recieved flack for is it's absurd projections for Pedroia, yet look what he's doing now.

2007-09-12 16:25:50
80.   LogikReader
Hey guys,

I finished compiling the potential free agents list for 3B and Outfielders. 3B doesn't appear to need any new participants but just in case I'll show you who's available:


Arod/31/.319/190 [that's insane!]
Mike Lowell/32/.326/128
Mike Lamb/32/.289/111
Russ Branyan/32/.189/96
Greg Norton and A. Nunez/useless

Actually there are some pretty decent choices here, so if they need a "backup plan" I guess you can't go wrong.

Now for the fun part. What if NedCo wants a placeholder where there doesn't need to be one?

Here's the top 5 Outfielder FA's (min 50 games played):


Adam Dunn/27/.266/133
Aaron Rowand/29/.312/126
Torii Hunter/31/.291/125
Bobby Abreu/33/.288/121

Geoff Jenkins and Mike Cameron are also up there.

and now, the bottom five FA OF's


Sammy Sosa/38/.253/98
Andrew Jones/30/.222/90
Rob Mackowiak/31/.265/90
Corey Patterson/27/.269/81
Darin Erstad/33/.256/72

I don't know what Aaron Rowand would command on the free agent market, but that would be a really really good, solid 4th OF if he was willing to go for it!

Torii Hunter would figure to be the popular pick.

Again I don't think any FA additions are necessary but if there has to be one more "placeholder" there are actually several good choices.

2007-09-12 16:26:15
81.   blue22
76 - But based on that writer's desired candidate, Logan White would appear to be ideal though. Does he even know who Logan White is?

They should be calling the Oakland A's and the Minnesota Twins and the Boston Red Sox, those teams that have developed good farm systems


2007-09-12 16:26:31
82.   bhsportsguy
76 First, for anyone to use Paula Marshall in that blog is both inspired and also "huhh?"

And I am sure that he dodn't mean to lump Logan White in that group because he did talk about looking teams that developed good farm systems.

2007-09-12 16:30:05
83.   King of the Hobos
76 Seems to me that that guy saw names like Amaro, Beattie, Wade, Jackson, Mozeliak, Gottfried, Bennett, and Watson, and is making his argument on the strength of those names. My guess is he actually doesn't really mind White, Lubratich, or Evans, who are all associated with very good farm systems.
2007-09-12 16:33:57
84.   Jon Weisman
83 - Yeah, I know. Honestly, if I had more time today, I'd still write a blog post in response. I mean, it's like the A-Rod thing. Paula Marshall can't ever win the big one ... until she does.
2007-09-12 16:39:20
85.   Bob Timmermann
I guess the Astros need to go for proven GMs like Courtney Thorne-Smith. Or maybe Alison La Placa.
2007-09-12 16:43:48
86.   Gen3Blue
Thank you John Royal. Although I doubt people in the Astro's org give a fig for your opinion, we might get lucky and the will.
2007-09-12 16:44:57
87.   Jon Weisman
85 - Are they even interviewing Heather Locklear?
2007-09-12 16:46:17
88.   Humma Kavula
87 Pirates hire Matt LeBlanc.
2007-09-12 16:46:21
89.   bhsportsguy
79 It helps when the very next month you do this, .415/.472/.600. He started the season 5 for 10 and then he finished April going 5 for his next 45.

He played in 20 of the 27 games in May and posted the 1.072 OPS and he has proceeded to do well each month after that.

It also helps if the alternative is Alex Cora (.236/.288/.364).

But he is also not in a position where he had to produce right away, you have David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, Mike Lowell, and Kevin Youkilis. And also, the spotlight was shining harder on Drew, Lugo and Crisp. So that's a lot of vets which buffers Pedroia.

If the team comes back next year as constructed today, then I think the team should let Andy LaRoche play next year without hesitation and see where it goes but I think that both Pedroia's comeback in May and the construction of the roster made his start easier to take, plus they were winning anyway.

2007-09-12 16:46:31
90.   Dodgers49
53. 52 Once you're on the 40 man, any year you spend in the minors counts as an option year.

Okay. That would mean he was on the 40-man for 05, 06 and 07 (since you have three option years). I had looked at his Bio and noticed he made his debut in 2002. I was thinking he wouldn't have had to be added to the 40-man until 06 (after four years) so I thought he should have one more year left.

2007-09-12 16:48:15
91.   King of the Hobos
Daniel Cabrera has already given up 6 runs in the first 2 innings against the Angels. The last time he gave up 6 runs, his relievers decided to do their best to pitch a historic game.
2007-09-12 16:48:17
92.   Bob Timmermann
Heather Locklear will be working for the Houston Astros for five years as a "special guest general manager."
2007-09-12 16:49:09
93.   Bob Timmermann
I've run out of jokes to make about the Orioles.

I never thought it would be possible.

2007-09-12 16:51:21
94.   regfairfield
89 It certainly does, but does there's almost 170 terrible plate appearances before you get to that point. Also, it's not as though Alex Cora is a worse alternative at this point than Nomar and Hillenbrand, because at least Cora plays good defense. Right now, our alternatives are two guys who have one tool between them, so there is absolutely no excuse for LaRoche not playing.

90 He played for Great Falls at age 20, prior to this year, players drafted at age 19 or higher had three years before they became rule five eligible.

2007-09-12 16:52:19
95.   CanuckDodger
81 -- The A's have a terrible farm system, and the A's and their fans know it. That's why they were so hoping they could raid our farm system by making a Blanton trade.
2007-09-12 16:54:02
96.   bhsportsguy
90 He was drafted out of community college and signed after he was already 19. Until the current CBA, a player 19 and older had to put on the 40-man roster after 3 seasons of minor league ball. That is why after the 2004 season, he was put on the 40 man roster.
2007-09-12 16:54:19
97.   King of the Hobos
If anyone's interested, another Houstonian's opinion on the GM search (summary: he really likes Ng).

However, it's hard to say if that columnist has any credibility. This line tells me he doesn't: "Others also are competent. Dan Evans and Logan White. Ed Wade and Ruben Amaro Jr. There's no shortage of qualified candidates."

2007-09-12 16:55:08
98.   El Lay Dave
93 Jim Duquette is on the phone with Ned Colletti inquiring about Roberto Hernandez's availability.

Oh, you meant good jokes.

2007-09-12 16:57:22
99.   El Lay Dave
94 our alternatives are two guys who have one tool between them

Grady likes to be flanked by Shea and Nomar - old Red Sox days.

I'm in a mean mood.

2007-09-12 16:57:55
100.   jasonungar07
Martin after all star break

Navarro after all star break

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-09-12 17:00:16
101.   King of the Hobos
Troy Tulowitzki was involved in his second triple play of the year! Except he was one of the outs this time.
2007-09-12 17:01:26
102.   Jon Weisman
101 - Good writeup here:
2007-09-12 17:05:14
103.   El Lay Dave
80 Nice lists (I would only want ARod, unless Hunter means Pierre is run out of town), but what players do you think will seem the most appealing to Colletti?
2007-09-12 17:13:14
104.   silverwidow
103 -- Hunter is easily the most appealing to Colletti: Great attitude, "plays the game the right way", excellent defender, lots of speed and power.
2007-09-12 17:13:58
105.   Gen3Blue
93 Just posting "Orioles" has a comic effect, sort of like calling out #23 in the prison cafateria.
2007-09-12 17:14:53
106.   King of the Hobos
103 Erstad.

Actually, Norton seems to be a prime candidate to replace Saenz as the team's requisite professional hitter.

2007-09-12 17:20:48
107.   Bluebleeder87

& the overall #'s say...

I sincerely don't understand what your trying to get at when you do that, the only thing I can think of is that YOUR A HUGE Navarro fan or a HUGE Home Depo fan.

2007-09-12 17:22:21
108.   Dodgers49
Commentary: Dodgers' sprint toward finish turning into a stumble

>> Perhaps reflecting organizational thinking, Little talked about how the goal coming out of spring training is "to put yourself in position to play some meaningful games" in September. And keep the turnstiles spinning.

(Did we mention the Dodgers on Tuesday announced they have sold a club-record 3.75 million tickets? Contending is what really matters. Winning something? Not so much.) <<

2007-09-12 17:23:15
109.   Bob Timmermann
Edwin Jackson and the Rays led Boston 4-0 until an Ortiz homer cut it to 4-3 in the third.

So how many hours will this game take?

2007-09-12 17:25:16
110.   bhsportsguy
100 So toss out the .491 OPS in the first half although he had over 40% more plate appearances than he has had so far this half.

Good for Dionner, I hope he does well like I hope all former Dodgers do but I am not exactly sure of the point of always bringing up guys who have left, it is as if lets talk about the few (and right now with this current administration, its few, this is not Pedro Martinez time) who show some signs of perhaps being viable major league players.

I guess my point is this, it be great to have a crystal and not trade or release certain guys but those things happen.

29 other teams could have approached Takeshi Saito but they didn't. If Edwin Jackson had has his 2007 first half on the Dodgers, do you think they should keep putting him out there? Chuck Tiffany, Blake Johnson, Julio Pimentel, Sergio Pedroza, et. al., odds are these guys are not going pan out but you never know.

Shouldn't the Devil Rays see if Joel Guzman can play and hit at this level, they only have one more option left and he probably has less trade value now than he did when the Dodgers dealt him.

So maybe they should have kept Werth instead of protecting the Zach Hammes and Tim Hamulacks, sounds fine to me. But projecting success at the MLB level is not an exact science, the Dodgers have been fortunate because it appears that their recent top prospects (outside Joel) are doing well but that is not always the case.

2007-09-12 17:25:55
111.   Bluebleeder87
Looking at Germano's splits, he got lit up pretty bad his last time out (only went 3 innings) 6 hits & 5 runs one of them a four bagger.
2007-09-12 17:31:28
112.   bhsportsguy
108 That was the O'Malley philosophy long before Ned and Grady set up shop here.

And it works (though, whether or not the team needs to contend remains questionable to me).

In comparison and I know about the pct. of capicity comparsion, the Angels will draw less fans this regular season than they did in 2006. Not a lot less but less. And while the Angels are drawing more fans now than ever before, their attendance has peaked, primarily because they sell most of their good seats and they have been hovering around 92-93% capacity for the last couple of years.

The Dodgers attendance has gone up every year since 2004 and while Jamie McCourt's proclamation of 4 million seems crazy in 2004, this team is now within 250K of that mark, certainly a lot closer now than they were 3 years ago.

2007-09-12 17:34:46
113.   underdog
Imagine how well they'd draw if they actually went to the World Series!

To the moon!

Oh wait, I'll save that catchphrase for when we sign Greg Norton. (said in Jackie Gleason voice)

2007-09-12 17:35:11
114.   Jon Weisman
107/110 - What's wrong with pointing out that Navarro is doing well, after all the bashing he has taken? Jasonungar did it without comment - seems like other people are adding all this nefarious intent to his post.
2007-09-12 17:36:33
115.   King of the Hobos
The Rockies are up 9-0 in the 4th. However, Mark Redman is pitching, so this isn't over.
2007-09-12 17:40:56
116.   Zak
Assuming COL has won tonight, if the Dodgers win tonight, they are in a 3 way tie for 2nd place with COL and PHI in the WC, 2.5 games behind SD. But if they lose, they are 4.5 games out and in 4th place in the WC.

I am not usually the guy who thinks a season ends based on every win and loss in the season. But if they lose tonight, I will accept that this season is over.... unless, they sweep from AZ. But, tonight is by far the biggest game up to this point.

2007-09-12 17:41:06
117.   bhsportsguy
113 I don't know that they would draw that much more.

114 It's the comparison, I am sure there many other catchers that Navarro could be compared to aside from or in addition to Russell Martin but it seems like a straight comparison to the person who usurped him in May 2006.

I don't bash Navarro, I bash a the idea that somehow we should get more than we get when we deal some of these players away. Not all these guys will make it and we have not had a "Pedro Martinez" moment since Ned has arrived here despite some fears that we would.

2007-09-12 17:41:40
118.   Jon Weisman
Game thread is open.
2007-09-12 17:42:00
119.   ToyCannon
I think it is very valid to point out how well Navarro is doing. Ever since Ned started trading kids it has been pointed out be his supporters that he has never traded anything of value.

Will don't look now boys, but Navarro is building value. At a very fast rate. Were not throwing out the 1st half, were showing you a 23 year old catcher who may have figured things out. I didn't think he had it in him, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it when it happens.

2007-09-12 17:43:37
120.   Jon Weisman
114 - "it seems like a straight comparison to the person who usurped him in May 2006."

Is there a more logical comparison to make?

In any case, it still feels like you and Bluebleeder had your own axes to grind and were taking it out on the other guy. He said nothing about Pedro Martinez or Paul DePodesta in his comment.

2007-09-12 17:47:38
121.   GoBears
107/110. This is going to sound harsher than I mean it to, because I really do enjoy what you bring to the comments section here on a daily basis, but here goes:

I know you like to spray cold water on commenters who are frothing at the mouth about something, and believe me, I understand the instinct and appreciate it, but there's a point at which the "to be fair, hindsight is 20/20, and we all make mistakes, and we can't know everything, and occasionally so and so does something right" begins to sound like an apologia. It's an odd, reasonable-sounding way of being contrary.

Ach, the above probably says much more about me than about you - and how easily I get irked by dumb things. Goes along with my question a couple weeks ago about referring to players by their first names. I'm just a curmudgeon...

2007-09-12 17:48:11
122.   King of the Hobos
Josh Kalk, one of the guys using PF/X data, has created an algorithm for determining what pitches a pitcher throws. He has some 300 pitchers up so far. It's far from perfect (see his blog post, apparently Maddux only throws fast balls), but interesting nonetheless.

Blog Post
Player Cards

2007-09-12 17:49:16
123.   Bluebleeder87

I hope for nothing but the best for Navarro & ALL former prospects/Dodgers, maybe I'm just confusing him with regfairfield (sp) a few days ago he basically said that Navarro was a better player than Russell in a tone that IMO was baiting me, I've read his comments before so I know he knows better, I guess he was in "one of those moods that day" or something.

2007-09-12 17:51:07
124.   Jon Weisman
123 - I don't recall anything of the sort. In any case, even if you were confused about the author, 100 was not directed at you and there's no reason that I can see for you or anyone to go on the attack against it.
2007-09-12 17:51:30
125.   Jon Weisman
I'm closing this thread so everyone can be in the same one.

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