I think it is very valid to point out how well Navarro is doing. Ever since Ned started trading kids it has been pointed out be his supporters that he has never traded anything of value.

Will don't look now boys, but Navarro is building value. At a very fast rate. Were not throwing out the 1st half, were showing you a 23 year old catcher who may have figured things out. I didn't think he had it in him, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it when it happens.

Okay off to the game with some unknown Dodger Thought lurkers. If you don't hear from me again, find out who Chris and Nancy are.

Josh Kalk, one of the guys using PF/X data, has created an algorithm for determining what pitches a pitcher throws. He has some 300 pitchers up so far. It's far from perfect (see his blog post, apparently Maddux only throws fast balls), but interesting nonetheless.

Blog Post
http://www.baseball.bornbybits.com/blog/2007/09/player-cards.html
Player Cards
http://baseball.bornbybits.com/plots/players.html

114

I hope for nothing but the best for Navarro & ALL former prospects/Dodgers, maybe I'm just confusing him with regfairfield (sp) a few days ago he basically said that Navarro was a better player than Russell in a tone that IMO was baiting me, I've read his comments before so I know he knows better, I guess he was in "one of those moods that day" or something. My apologies Ungar07

I mean, shoot, if we can't even mention Dioner Navarro finally getting on a hot streak, we really have gotten too sensitive.

Man, I hope the Dodgers win tonight.

I often feel that I am put into a positon of making a counterpoint statement that appears to be supporting the Dodger's front office, etc. Its not that I support them blindly, I just try to look at it from their perspective and if it makes sense to me, then I am probably going to present that point of view.

When things don't make sense, I will point that out also.

So congrats to Dionner and I hope he and his family have a great rest of 2007 and beyond. And I hope a lot of the guys who started their careers as Dodgers do pan out because that will only enhance other minor leaguer's value when they might get dealt away too.

I always like Navarro when he was with us, he seemed to have a good command of the field defensively, and at the time, I wasn't so sure we should have gotten rid of him...Martin has made it ok...

and with the number of games we have Martin playing, he should give us a long and fruitful career of at least 5 or 6 years...

Here's to the first of six wins tonight on our way to 81!

Those are the numbers of games caught by Johnny Bench at the beginning of his career. He started playing at age 19 so his first few years, they really played him a lot.

About the Pedro trade (I can't believe I'm about to do this, but...): I don't think it was a very bad move, at the time. Looking at Pedro's numbers, it wasn't until 1997 that he became the Pedro Martinez that is, arguably, the best pitcher of his generation. In his first four years with the Expos, his numbers weren't that different from his short time with the Dodgers.

Given the team that the Dodgers had in the early to mid-90s (Strawberry, Davis, Piazza, Karros, Mondesi, et al), I think it made sense (again at the time) to trade him, especially considering he was at best a spot starter with a rotation of Orel, Ramon, Candiotti, Gross, and Astacio.

The team needed a second baseman and they got the best available. They were trying to win, I see nothing wrong with it... except in hindsight (Hershiser getting hurt, Ramon getting hurt, Strawberry and Davis getting hurt, etc).

I defend the guy because he just got a very raw deal in LA. The guy comes to the club as "Pudgito" performs well offensively at age 21 and 22, then somehow became worthless while he was live the club.

I got LAT'd in the last thread too, but you sort of answered my comment here anyway. Still I guess I wonder: why do you feel that you are put into any position? You're not under any obligation to be the voice of counterpoint. Trust me, I well understand the instinct. I'm surrounded all day by students and colleagues who think that just about everything is a moral outrage in one way or another, in need of immediate attention and protest (often from both sides at the same time).

But forget real life. In baseball, there really ARE moral imperatives.

For the record I felt the same way about it also, I'm glad it worked out well for BOTH OF THEM. I wanted them to duke it out on the field for what it's worth, but I also have to say I watched Russell Martin since he's Jax days.

Next year, I'd like to see Martin get more of the DH starts in the AL park games.

http://truebluela.com/story/2007/5/9/134944/9813

Or something.

I thought only promising young pitchers had their careers derailed due to injuries!

You can say that about Russell Martin also, ever since Navarro arrived Russell got put on the back shelf (something I even wrote Ken Gurnik about, he never replied but that's a whole different story) Don't forget Home Depo brought in Navarro, Russell Martin was already here. I TOTALLY HEAR YOU about Navarro not getting a fair shake when he injured him self he pretty much got put on the shelf as well.

Ps Let's just be friends, yeah? :o)

``I was going to go to (the Arizona Fall League), but now I'm just going to rest and let this heal,'' DeJesus said. ``I want to be 100 percent and ready for spring training.''

Would I have loved to have seen him play his entire career with the Dodgers? Absolutely. Just like I would have preferred to see Piazza play his entire career with the Bums.

We traded Pedro on potential, and lost. We lost big.

I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just shut him down for the year. It would end the angst, anyway.

Navarro seemed to be away to bridge the gap to Russ, as well as a safety net if he failed.

I agree, and there shouldn't be much resistance from Management.

Year - GS, IP, WHIP, ERA+ (ERA), K/9, BB/9, K/BB, HR/9
2005 - 35, 222, 1.252, 113 (3.61), 5.92, 2.23, 2.65, 1.14
2006 - 34, 218, 1.266, 126 (3.63), 5.08, 2.27, 2.24, 0.58
2007 - 29, 177, 1.261, 118 (3.80), 6.42, 2.62, 2.45, 0.89

That's pretty consistent.

I didn't realize that, I really felt Navarro was being groomed to be our everyday catcher, it sure felt that way they way management talked about him.

I feel that way about tonight's game.

Arrrgh.

Delino was a second baseman.

Bad trade based even Pedro performs only like those first three seasons with Les Expos.

(Tommy would have kept him in the pen and burned his arm out like Niedenfuer's anyway, so no use crying over that spilled milk.)

Martinez's ERA in his first four seasons away from the Dodgers: 3.42, 3.52, 3.70, 1.90.

ERA+: 123, 120, 117, 221

Putting aside the fact that Delino became the best available second baseman only through a domino effect of bungles, are you really suggesting Martinez wouldn't have been an asset? He was already an asset.

This is not a hindsight thing. I know all too well that Delino did worse than expected, but even if Pedro had never become Pedro, the Dodgers still traded a pitcher who had already arrived. He had thrown 107 innings with an ERA of 2.61 at age 21. Would you want to trade that guy right now?

defensively in my opinion he was already better than Navarro (even though Martin was relatively new to the position) BUT in all fairness Navarro had the better bat at that point.

:o)

Honestly, I would have dealt Candiotti and/or Gross before I traded Pedro.

I mean, I can't think of two bigger no-brainer sides of the argument. What's next? Did the Dodgers mess up by converting Gagne to closer? Come on!! Shouldn't have traded Pedro and made the right decision by keeping Martin. You really have to go outside the box to argue those two points.

68 I don't think the discussion is keeping Martin or not, it is if Navarro was properly evaluated and valued. He was an important piece in a Randy Johnson deal and a Shawn Green (when he still had perceived value) deal, yet he and Jae Seo only netted the Dodgers Mark Hendrickson and Toby Hall.

I would rather you be showing me the Dodgers/Padres game with major playoff implications than a pool tournament at Mohegan Sun.

I understand that you don't care.

Very truly yours,

Sam

It's moderately cathartic. :)

I'm not volunteering to decorate the Dodger float for the TofR.

duh duh duh duhduhduh

D E F E N S E

Think the float will have a lot of blue and white flowers?

I did learn he is half Korean.

And the Os just walked the bases loaded wiht one out in the ninth.

Dodgers get bad calls against the pads.

I thought it was a strike, Period. I wonder how in looked on gameday.

I guess it's the way they treat rookies I shouldn't be too surprised, but I always am, oh well.

It was a flippant comment and I wouldn't have made it if I had thought about it. But it was an innocent rant, and way way way back in the past.

Is that because they have homefield for the Series?

2 IP, 6 ground outs for Germano. And Loney's double :)

In 2008, the NL will get a series like that.

But it's getting there.

Perhaps he is bionic?

Bob just who is behind this new playoff schedule?

Bud Selig?

MLB?

Or the FOX Network?

It seems awfully unfair to post seasons teams
in both leagues who wont have it.

Icaros loan DT Mojo isn't working I guess, he's at the game.

Scored 1 in the bottom of the ninth, now down 3-2 with runners at the corners and one out.

153 At least he can't blame me; I'm not at the game, too.

---

Man, MLBTV sucks tonight. Guess it's Gameday for me.

Sigh. Well, we've got two now at least.

I suspect that will be enough. Billingsley is good.

Jim DeShaies thought Eric Bruntlett should have tried to steal since Kendall is having such a bad year.

But Cecil Cooper is a cautious man.

What to say... what to say ...

This gives the Red Sox an apparent advantage.

I suppose Fox isn't willing to move The Simpson's or American Idol on the program
schedule for a baseball game.

Luckily he won't have to run around the bases; he can trot.

Predict in how many minutes, Tony Jackson will go on his blog and rip on Billingsley for throwing too many pitches.

Really leaving now.

Pretty tame by Tony Jackson standards.

He's got a stint in the Red Sox and A's organizations ahead of him.

I'm very disappointed that Scott Atchison has not pitched in Topeka or Santa Fe.

Presumably he does this a lot. Is this somehow an illegitimate criticism?

LONEY POWER!!!

As a corner OF'er (not sure if Sledge plays CF), he's rather putrid. At 30yrs old, he has no upside.

the mean=being awesome.

I want him to hit 50 RBI's for the season tonight, and only two more to go.

Vasgersian: If you had to pick between one guy, Kemp, Loney, Ethier, who would it be?

Grant: 3-way tie!

.....oops?

Now if only Chad would settle down for an inning or two. That's all we ask!

"Joe Cocker Does Tuvan Throat Singing"

Shows you how important pitching is I guess. Are they a good on base team?

Thank you for being inpatient in this inning.

sincerely, bluebleeder.

Seriously, I would be stunned if Black starts Cameron vs. Bills next time he faces the Pads.

By the way he had me nuerotic because I was sure I couldn't get the order of vowels right it Tony A's name, but I noticed they match the pronounciation--Abreu---yes?

The White Sox were in between them starting today, which is pretty sad considering that they get to use a DH.

Padre OBP: .321
LgOBP (adjusted for Petco): .332
Padre OBP+ (100 being average): 97

Dodger OBP: .336
LgOBP: .344
Dodger OBP+: 98

2007
Kemp, .336
Loney, .321

---

Curse that Spiccoli! I think Abreu should start shading him over another foot from now on.

How come we can't get this Kouzmanoff us?

Now is the time the offense could really make a diff. Led by Kent!

We could have another one in a couple weeks if Loney stays hot!

Kent approves!

I'm just relieved the Dodgers have eliminated the possible shame of not breaking the twenty barrier. Maybe Loney will do it too!

So does Martin's baserunning come under a rookie mistake or does he qualify as a grizzled veteran who is easily forgiven?

Loney .897
Kemp .896
Kent .875
Martin .853
Ethier .802

& we also have a very nice lead, but it looks like the Tomato is coming in to hit for him, good call.

I didn't realize they still play "Thank God I'm a Country Boy" between innings in any major league park. Not to mention "Church of the Poison Mind" (to celebrate the year 1983, last Orioles WC.)

Oh, and I got to see Danys Baez. The fans loathe him. This little kid behind me with a cute Southern accent says, disgustedly, "What's Danys Baez doing in there?" They brought him in to mop up, and he even sucked at that, walking in run #15, and giving up runs #17 and #18 by allowing Brandon Wood's first major league home run.

Nice to come back to the hotel to a so-far-so-good game from the D's. Loney's approaching unconscious. When Little absolutely, positively has to win, he plays Loney, Kemp and Ethier in the same lineup.

Taiwanese contingent: 1
Pierre: 0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_CPBL_season

I've been hit like that, It's gonna leave a nice baseball in print/Russell Martin signature if you will, on his rib, I'd be honored if I were the Pads runner.

Little, taking his game tactics straight from DT tonight, and look how well it's working out for him!

Six pitchers have gotten a save with just one pitch this season:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/fJzF

There have been nine one pitch wins this year:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/2b83

And the toughest of all, the one pitch loss:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/WdmX

356 If not a red flag, then at least a yellow one. It's definitely not a checkered flag.

Send LaRoche to an acupuncturist.

355 I looked at the game logs and I think the Kouzmanoff streak is only at 9 PAs.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/QStv

13 GIDPs and 2 LDPs

Stand down.

https://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/781479.html

Joba's pretty awesome, btw. So far at least. Wish the Dodgers had nabbed him.

Odds Saito ends up having to warm up: 2:1 in favor of.

I'm not sure what the oldest Southern Section football rivalry is but Glendale and Hoover have been going at it a while. And those games are REALLY bad.

Meloan, now I wouldn't mind seeing him here, though.

But again, as long as it's now Hernandez, I'm okay with it.

is better than
Kent 2B
Abreu 3B

Seanus ; reminds me of a juvenile joke I once heard.

Seanus ; reminds me of a juvenile joke I once heard.

395 Well when the Dodgers play the DBacks next and Broxton's in, you should definitely watch the DBacks telecast to hear Mark Grace's awe-struck, mancrushing about Broxton.

That's a tough night.

"Feast or famine hitter," indeed, Vinnie.

We win!