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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Be Quick, But Don't Hurry
2007-09-16 11:35
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Countdown to 81 wins: just two more.

Today's game:

Gameday

Retro Gameday

Comments (388)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-16 11:38:41
1.   TellMeTheScoreRickMonday
Shades of John Wooden!

UCLA could have used that advice yesterday.

2007-09-16 11:40:20
2.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA should have looked at one of the lesser-known parts of Wooden's Pyramid of Success. That is the part called "Non-suckiness."
2007-09-16 11:43:28
3.   Eric Enders
Or they could have examined the most important yet least discussed part of the Wooden Pyramid. The part called "Sam Gilbert."
2007-09-16 11:43:41
4.   Eric Enders
Josh Rawitch, while of course steadfastly refusing to criticize anything, has often noted that "as a fan" he doesn't always agree with all of the team's moves. It seems like he let a little bit of the "fan" come out today by making a point of noting Kemp's awesomeness right next to a lineup which was conspicuous for Kemp's absence.
2007-09-16 11:45:21
5.   Linkmeister
While UCLA dropped out and deservedly so, UH moved up to 18th in one poll and 19th in the other. Brennan played 3 quarters on a seriously sprained ankle, scoring 3 TDs on the ground in the 49-14 victory.
2007-09-16 11:45:43
6.   Linkmeister
Oh, polls can be found here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsindex

2007-09-16 11:46:09
7.   Bob Timmermann
Sam Gilbert is so "under-mentioned" now that he's "over-mentioned."
2007-09-16 11:47:29
8.   MollyKnight
4- I enjoy Josh Rawitch.
2007-09-16 11:50:38
9.   Linkmeister
Bob, this one's for you: Notre Dame didn't even get into the "others receiving votes" category. Of course, there's no way they should, but I'm convinced some voters have an automatic check in the ND box on the ballot, and it's an opt-out rather than opt-in situation.

What time's the game? Gameday isn't loading yet.

2007-09-16 11:52:10
10.   Bob Timmermann
When I went to UCLA, I tried to bribe Jack Haley to quit the team, but it turned out that his family was already wealthy.

So I had to watch him play.

It took five years of intensive psychotherapy to recover from watching Jack Haley play center.

2007-09-16 11:52:34
11.   Bob Timmermann
9
1:10 PT is game time.
2007-09-16 11:53:28
12.   Linkmeister
Gracias.
2007-09-16 11:55:32
13.   Bob Timmermann
Rollins doubles in Werth to make it 5-2 Mets and Oliver Perez should be done. He's over 110 pitches in the fifth.
2007-09-16 11:57:49
14.   KG16
I know Gonzo had a homerun yesterday, but seriously, if you've got a guy who would win the league batting title if he qualified, how can you justify not playing him everyday?

On a related note, does anyone have a feeling like Loney and/or Kemp could be potential triple crown threats in the near future?

2007-09-16 11:59:25
15.   KG16
10 - funny, it's taking five years of intensive psychotherapy to get over watching Jack Haley do Kevin Kennedy-esque analysis for the Lakers.
2007-09-16 12:04:24
16.   Eric Enders
13 Much to my chagrin, it is not the Mets who are winning.
2007-09-16 12:05:20
17.   Dodgers49
On Tuesday the Dodgers will face lefthanded starters in both games of a doubleheader. So apparently, after watching Kemp tire himself out running out that triple, Grady Little is saving him for Tuesday's games.
2007-09-16 12:08:04
18.   MollyKnight
2 on, 1 out for Wright and the Mets in the 5th. Beltran on deck.
2007-09-16 12:12:50
19.   MollyKnight
2 on, 2 out for Beltran and the Mets in the fifth.
2007-09-16 12:15:02
20.   MollyKnight
YESSSSSSS!!! Beltran!!! 3 run shot!!

TIE GAME!!!!

2007-09-16 12:15:06
21.   MollyKnight
YESSSSSSS!!! Beltran!!! 3 run shot!!

TIE GAME!!!!

2007-09-16 12:15:06
22.   MollyKnight
YESSSSSSS!!! Beltran!!! 3 run shot!!

TIE GAME!!!!

2007-09-16 12:15:29
23.   Bluebleeder87
Beltran just hit a 3 RUN HOME RUN to tie it up in New York, WOO!
2007-09-16 12:15:36
24.   MollyKnight
Triple post for a three run homer!
2007-09-16 12:17:45
25.   Bluebleeder87
11

My sunday game is at 3 o'clock which is an awkward start for us, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna arrive a little late to my game.

2007-09-16 12:18:35
26.   worz
Anyone know what has happened to Tony Jackson? He hasn't updated it blog since Friday. It seems like a strange time to go missing, given where we are in the season.
2007-09-16 12:20:20
27.   The Mootz
O.J. has been arrested again.

Hope this doesn't deter him from finding the real killers.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/16/oj.simpson/index.html

2007-09-16 12:21:14
28.   Dodgers49
14. On a related note, does anyone have a feeling like Loney and/or Kemp could be potential triple crown threats in the near future?

I'm not sure that Loney will ever win a homerun title. But I've been a die-hard Dodgers fan since 1949. And in all those years Matt Kemp is the most talented position player to come up through the Dodgers system, IMHO. He has all five tools; power, avg, speed, arm and defensive ability that should improve with playing time. The only other Dodgers non-pitcher I can think of in all that time who might enter the HOF is Piazza and he only had two tools. I expect Kemp to be a 40/100 guy for years. But I'm just a fan, so who knows.

2007-09-16 12:27:41
29.   Eric Enders
26 I don't know, but he likely won't be updating it next week either, as the Dodgers visit Denver.

28 I'll buy everyone on this site a gold iPhone case if Loney ever leads the league in home runs. And while I think Kemp could someday lead the league in HR or BA, I don't think a Dodger will ever again lead the league in RBI. And if they do, it won't be while Juan Pierre is under contract.

2007-09-16 12:28:54
30.   MollyKnight
Mets make their fifth error of the day. They really want to let the Phillies back into the pennant race, some say.
2007-09-16 12:30:47
31.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets have now made five errors against the Phillies and there are two on and none out and Old Friend Guillermo Mota is trying to work out of the jam.
2007-09-16 12:33:52
32.   KG16
28/29 - the reason that I think they could both be triple crown threats is because they are hitting so well and if they were to have played a full season would be projected at 20 HRs each right now. Granted, that's not McGwire as a rookie numbers, but that's still pretty good for guys who are still learning the game.

28 - I'm in the group that believes Piazza is a first ballot hall of famer.

2007-09-16 12:39:08
33.   Bob Timmermann
Old Friend Werth with the bases loaded BB against Sosa. 6-5 Phillies.
2007-09-16 12:40:21
34.   MollyKnight
Pinch hit grand slam for Greg Dobbs. Phillies lead 10-5.
2007-09-16 12:41:31
35.   Bob Timmermann
The Phillies line score reads 10 7 1
2007-09-16 12:42:47
36.   Bluebleeder87
The Mets are DEAD to me.
2007-09-16 12:44:39
37.   MollyKnight
35--Mets line score 5 7 5.
2007-09-16 12:48:21
38.   Bob Timmermann
Through four innings today, all nine Astros have a hit and Josh Anderson (he's an Astro) is 4 for 4.

The Astros are ahead of Pittsburgh 13-2.

2007-09-16 12:50:04
39.   KG16
Don't know if anyone caught it, but the Dodgers have a poll on their front page that asks what their biggest need is this off season: starting pitcher, power hitting third baseman, power hitting out fielder, or other.

58% say power hitting third baseman. 19% each for starting pitcher and out fielder. the other 5% have not been following the team this year.

I voted for the 3rd baseman, if only because this last week has me worried about LaRoche's work ethic. Plus, I would really like to see A-Rod in Dodger Blue.

2007-09-16 12:50:10
40.   Dodgers49
29. And while I think Kemp could someday lead the league in HR or BA, I don't think a Dodger will ever again lead the league in RBI. And if they do, it won't be while Juan Pierre is under contract.

But why would a Dodger never again lead the league in RBI. We have some really talented youngsters. I expect Kemp to be the Dodgers cleanup hitter for years. And he could have both Martin and Loney hitting ahead of him.

And, as for Pierre, Ned says he gets on base an awful lot. :-)

2007-09-16 12:51:06
41.   Bob Timmermann
39
The biggest need are MORE outfielders. I think the Dodgers should have 10 on the roster at all times.
2007-09-16 12:51:11
42.   Eric Enders
36 It's not only you -- they're just about dead, period.
2007-09-16 12:52:07
43.   D4P
Triple post for a three run homer!

Who the heck is Greg Dobbs?
Who the heck is Greg Dobbs?
Who the heck is Greg Dobbs?
Who the heck is Greg Dobbs?

2007-09-16 12:52:20
44.   Bob Timmermann
42
The Mets finish with six against Washington, seven against Florida, and one against the Cardinals.

Not a demanding schedule.

2007-09-16 12:53:33
45.   Bob Timmermann
43
Greg Dobbs is part of the Phillies three-headed third baseman: Wes Helms (from the right), Greg Dobbs (from the left), and Abraham Nunez (who tries to catch the ball.)
2007-09-16 12:57:28
46.   Eric Enders
40 I agree that Loney and Kemp are talented, but accumulating lots of RBI has very little to do with talent. It has more to do with
1) playing in a great hitters' ballpark
2) having three hitters in front of you with close to .400 OBPs
3) walking relatively little

Only one Dodger has led the league in RBI since Dodger Stadium opened. And that guy did it with the league MVP batting in front of him.

2007-09-16 12:58:23
47.   Dodgers49
28 - I'm in the group that believes Piazza is a first ballot hall of famer.

I'm in that group also. The only catcher with better numbers than Piazza is Josh Gibson. Although most Josh's numbers didn't count.

2007-09-16 12:59:06
48.   Eric Enders
28 , 47 - I wasn't aware there was anyone who wasn't in that group.
2007-09-16 13:01:34
49.   KG16
Could Gonzo be getting all these starts because he's approaching 2500 hits? Anyone think if he gets to the milestone in the next few days, he'll see more pinch hitting assignment? Or will that big number be used as justification to insert his PVL into the lineup down the stretch?
2007-09-16 13:04:14
50.   Eric Enders
Gonzalez is only 5 hits away from 2,500, so he's going to get the milestone this year regardless. The only reason for playing him so much lately would seem to be that they are trying to arrange for him to reach the milestone on this upcoming road trip. Specifically, in Arizona.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-16 13:04:50
51.   KG16
46 - yes, but until two years ago Dodger stadium was one of the most pitcher friendly ball parks in the majors (all that foul ground that is now box seating). I'm pretty sure someone around here has numbers that show that Dodger Stadium is now one of the more hitter friendly parks in the NL.

Which of course has me wondering, if the Dodgers were to break ground on a new stadium this off season (purely hypothetically), what kind of team would you build it for? Obviously, Dodger Stadium was built with Koufax and Drysdale in mind (much as Yankee Stadium was built with Ruth and Gerhig in mind).

2007-09-16 13:05:28
52.   KG16
50 - so you're saying three hits today and we won't see him in Colorado?
2007-09-16 13:06:37
53.   D4P
Didn't expect the Phillies to sweep the Mets.

Then again, didn't expect the Dodgers to sweep the DBacks. Not that they've done so yet, but regardless, I didn't expect it.

2007-09-16 13:08:06
54.   Bluebleeder87
And, as for Pierre, Ned says he gets on base an awful lot.

To be honest I was pretty happy Ned semi acknowledged Pierre was having a disappointing season (on a radio station interview a few months back) Pierre's had a great Aug & Sept though, but still. I bet Ned deep down inside knows he made a mistake signing a SINGLES HITTING CF, but that's just me, for all I know he's probably patting him self in the back by signing him.

2007-09-16 13:09:18
55.   Gen3Blue
Looks like the Mets are being swept clean allright.
2007-09-16 13:10:50
56.   Dodgers49
46. 40 I agree that Loney and Kemp are talented

When I said we have some very talented youngsters I didn't mean just Kemp and Loney. I was considering the other talent we'd have out there in front of them.

>> Only one Dodger has led the league in RBI since Dodger Stadium opened. And that guy did it with the league MVP batting in front of him. <<

I see Loney and Martin as future MVP candidates and both could end up batting in front of Kemp.

2007-09-16 13:11:56
57.   Eric Enders
51 I don't think it's particularly plausible that Dodger Stadium was built with Koufax and Drysdale in mind. Drysdale, maybe, but certainly not Koufax. The stadium opened in 1962, at which point Koufax was a wild left-hander who had never had a season ERA better than 3.52. And remember, the design work was done even earlier, in the late fifties, while Koufax was still spending most of his time in the bullpen.

Anyway, I'm not a big believer in building stadiums custom-made to the strengths of a particular player. The stadium ends up lasting a lot longer than the player, and then you're stuck with it. And really there's no precedent for this in baseball. Even the supposed "House that Ruth Built" was actually much worse suited for Babe Ruth's hitting than the Yankees' previous park.

2007-09-16 13:13:47
58.   Eric Enders
I will be delighted to be wrong when Loney and Kemp lead the league in RBI, by the way.
2007-09-16 13:13:56
59.   Bluebleeder87
La Roche will go deep today.
2007-09-16 13:13:59
60.   Gen3Blue
Bob, its still hardn to be ahead of Vin on Sept 16
2007-09-16 13:15:10
61.   trainwreck
Loaiza looks like he's on his game.
2007-09-16 13:16:06
62.   Bob Timmermann
"¡Viva la Virgen de Guadalupe! ¡Viva Fernando VII! ¡Abajo el mal gobierno!"
2007-09-16 13:16:58
63.   Bluebleeder87
61

Byrnes fly ball wasn't cool though.

2007-09-16 13:17:28
64.   Eric Enders
The Mets are teasing us as a Wright homer makes it 10-6.
2007-09-16 13:17:43
65.   MollyKnight
David Wright joins the 30/30 club.
2007-09-16 13:18:55
66.   Bluebleeder87
62

!I Viva Mexico! some of the words the president of Mexico will be hollering tonight.

2007-09-16 13:19:12
67.   KG16
57 - I think it would be foolish to not look at how you have built your team when designing a stadium. Ideally, having built a team shows a certain type of baseball philosophy and you would want to give your team as much of an advantage as possible, no? I mean, you play half the games each season at the park. It's sort of a chicken and the egg thing. If you've built a team with a lot of power, you're going to want short porches and as little foul ground as possible. If you've got good pitching and a lot of line drive hitters, you're going to want more foul territory, higher fences that are pushed back a bit.

But it's a chicken-and-egg thing, I suppose.

2007-09-16 13:22:00
68.   ToyCannon
I thought the Dodger montage for this week was as good as I've seen.
2007-09-16 13:22:35
69.   Bob Timmermann
Josh Anderson of Houston is now 5 for 5 and he may get one more swing.
2007-09-16 13:23:25
70.   KG16
69 - alert status?
2007-09-16 13:23:59
71.   Bob Timmermann
The Retro version of Gameday has interesting locations for the pitches to Pierre. All but the first were marked as going over his head.
2007-09-16 13:24:23
72.   Jon Weisman
Pierre twice swung at ball 4 but wasn't punished.
2007-09-16 13:24:49
73.   D4P
Retro Gameday's pitch location thingie has sure been messed up lately. Either it shows every pitch in the heart of the plate, or it starts showing pitches in the upper left hand corner of the diagram, above a left-handed hitter's head.
2007-09-16 13:24:53
75.   Bob Timmermann
Josh Anderson has four singles and a double. There are no alerts for hearty congratulations.
2007-09-16 13:24:58
76.   Bluebleeder87
67

I like stadiums suited for pitchers, as a fan I think you appreciate a well pitched game a lot more, but if your gonna hit a HOME RUN as a FAN you want them to be legit, don't get me wrong I like dingers as well but a well played game (looking at you Mets) is always a lot more appreciated.

2007-09-16 13:25:38
77.   Eric Enders
67 But in the free agency era, that plan would work for, what, one year? Two, max? Remember, you have to design your ballpark several years before actually playing your first game there.
2007-09-16 13:25:50
78.   Bob Timmermann
74
But what about when he gets a hit?
2007-09-16 13:27:13
79.   Gen3Blue
Although Loaiza did begin to look on his game, he gave me the start I'm used to with D's pitchers not looking warmed up. Of the first handful of pitches one went to the warning track and one to the backstop.
2007-09-16 13:28:16
81.   trainwreck
That was not even close.
2007-09-16 13:32:50
82.   silverwidow
There is no way - NO WAY - Loaiza gets through 2008 in the rotation.
2007-09-16 13:33:45
83.   Izzy
I have a simpler view of why Gonzo is playing. It's the same reason Wells pitches when we play the Pods. The reality is that players are competitive and play with a chip on their shoulder against teams that have "dissed" "dumped" or "thrown them away." Some managers exploit that. To some degree I agree. The bother to me has always been why it takes a grudge to make a guy play well. Obviously, they have the ability in them. Why not use it all the time.
2007-09-16 13:35:19
84.   Bluebleeder87
Loaiza is giving me the hee bee jee bees with his shenanigans.
2007-09-16 13:35:33
85.   D4P
The bother to me has always been why it takes a grudge to make a guy play well. Obviously, they have the ability in them. Why not use it all the time

Exactly. That same goes for "clutch". If you could truly hit better under "pressure" (presumably by changing your approach), why not just use the altered approach all the time?

2007-09-16 13:36:21
86.   Bluebleeder87
82

he has back problems (disc I think) if he heals we should be o.k. with him, but I hear your what your saying.

2007-09-16 13:36:44
87.   D4P
It's kind of amazing that Rollins will probably out-out Pierre this season, despite an OPS roughly 200 points higher.
2007-09-16 13:37:48
88.   Suffering Bruin
Way off topic but I'm curious:

How long before people call for Charlie Weis' head? And if this were Ty Willingham's team, wouldn't he be gone already?

2007-09-16 13:38:19
89.   KG16
77 - yes and no. As an example, I'm the type of person, that if I were to be putting a team together, I'd be looking for good to very good starting pitching, line drive hitters, and solid defense. So, I'd want to build a stadium like Dodger Stadium use to be. That philosophy would hold year in and year out. So, in theory, it would last for as long as I'm in charge of the stadium.

But, if I've got a stadium first, say, I take over a franchise that is not doing well. I would absolutely look at how the stadium is built when building the team. If I've got a short porch in right, I'd want more left handers who pull the ball or right handers who can go the other way. As an example, let's say I had a team that played in a stadium built like the old Polo Grounds... there is no way I would even think of signing a center fielder like Juan Pierre.

Unfortunately, few teams have a lasting philosophy any more, changing GMs like I change my underwear. Also, I'd point out that the A's approach of late has worked in part because of they way their stadium is set up (ton of foul territory, 330 down the lines, etc)

2007-09-16 13:38:54
90.   Bob Timmermann
88
A friend at work said that Charlie Weis' biggest win at Notre Dame was the close loss to USC.
2007-09-16 13:39:42
91.   Suffering Bruin
Does Loaiza throw over 85 mph? Ever?
2007-09-16 13:39:47
92.   MJW101
Worst case scenario in 2008:

C Martin/Liberthal
1B Loney/Sweeney
2B Kent/Abreu
SS Furcal/Martinez
3B Nomar/Hillenbrand
CF Pierre
RF Kemp/Ethier
LF Pasted Prime Veteran
SP Penny
SP Billingsley
SP Lowe
SP Loazia
SP Schmidt
CL Saito
SU Broxton
RP Proctor
RP Beimel
RP Seanez
RP Hendrickson

2007-09-16 13:40:05
93.   Bob Timmermann
Now the "grito" is something of a Mexican version of Edward Munch's masterpiece.
2007-09-16 13:40:16
94.   Linkmeister
Oh fudge.
2007-09-16 13:40:36
96.   MMSMikey
not a good day to fall behind 3-0
2007-09-16 13:40:44
98.   MollyKnight
Never fear: Hendrickson is warming in the pen.
2007-09-16 13:41:17
99.   Suffering Bruin
92 That team looks very familiar...
2007-09-16 13:41:55
101.   Bob Timmermann
Josh Anderson was hit by a pitch in his last plate appearance in Houston.
Show/Hide Comments 102-150
2007-09-16 13:42:18
102.   D4P
I wonder if Ojeda's dear ole' dad every watches him play
2007-09-16 13:42:40
103.   King of the Hobos
87 It helps that Rollins has about 50 more PAs than Pierre.
2007-09-16 13:43:58
104.   MMSMikey
loiza just looks so un impressive
2007-09-16 13:45:18
105.   Gen3Blue
I can't think of much that disgusts me as much as a Major league pitcher who gives up excessive walks. OK, a home run-thats one run, but this was shameful. We seem to be back to our August starting mode.
Now lets get some runs.
2007-09-16 13:46:18
107.   Suffering Bruin
I blame myself. I've been off the site and haven't seen a game during the first two weeks of school. I check in and ask about Notre Dame football, just to break the ice and boom-- a three run shot.

I should go for a jog or something.

2007-09-16 13:46:55
108.   trainwreck
MLB TV keeps dying out on me.
2007-09-16 13:47:17
109.   KG16
108 - you ain't missing much
2007-09-16 13:47:19
110.   Suffering Bruin
106 Based on very, very recent results, being compared to Tomko is a good thing. But I get what you're saying...
2007-09-16 13:47:35
111.   Bluebleeder87
If Loaiza only gives up these 3 runs, I'm naively thinking we're still in this thing.
2007-09-16 13:47:36
112.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Guys... it's OK... Ned saved the receipt
2007-09-16 13:48:01
113.   MMSMikey
this better not be one of those games.
2007-09-16 13:48:06
114.   Bluebleeder87
Gonzalez (pitcher) isn't fooling anybody either, it's just a matter of time...
2007-09-16 13:48:55
115.   Curtis Lowe
If the Dodgers are only going to lose Loaiza starts the rest of the way they should be bale to make it into the Post season.
2007-09-16 13:49:09
116.   MJW101
2008 Best case scenario:

C Martin/Leiberthal
1B Loney/Sweeney
2B Kent/Abreu
SS Furcal/Hu
3B LaRoche/Nomar
LF Ethier
CF Pierre
RF Kemp
OF Young
SP Penny
SP Lowe
SP Billingsley
SP Wolf (assuming he is healthy)
SP Kuo (assuming he is healthy)
CL Saito
SU Broxton
RP Meloan
RP Hull
RP Beimel
RP Proctor

2007-09-16 13:49:44
117.   King of the Hobos
That first out certainly wasn't reassuring.
2007-09-16 13:50:22
118.   Gen3Blue
Come on guys. We can't afford to lets the snakes get to their bull-pen if they are going to use the good part of it. How come this guy looks like he is goint to make a quality start?
2007-09-16 13:51:08
119.   KG16
116 - I would think any best case scenario would include Alex Rodriguez at third or short.
2007-09-16 13:52:20
120.   Bluebleeder87
SP Kuo (assuming he is healthy)

That guy is NEVER gonna be 100% for a WHOLE season, I really hope we show case him & hopefully get some value for him, you can bank on that.

2007-09-16 13:54:42
122.   trainwreck
Raiders/Broncos game suspended for thunderstorms. Never seen this before.
2007-09-16 13:57:21
124.   D4P
Gonzalez (pitcher) isn't fooling anybody either, it's just a matter of time...

There's a good chance 3 runs won't be enough to win this game.

2007-09-16 13:58:56
125.   Bob Timmermann
122
They've done it a few times before in the NFL. Purdue had a game a couple weeks ago that was delayed because of lightning.

And all the stands there are metal.

2007-09-16 13:59:41
126.   Ricardo
Will Grady pinch hit for Loaiza?
2007-09-16 14:00:29
128.   D4P
Grittle will let Loaiza hit and then send Hendrickson in to start the 4th.
2007-09-16 14:01:53
131.   MMSMikey
not good, not good.
2007-09-16 14:02:23
133.   Marty
I think Weiss should be the lifetime coach at Notre Dame. Just sign him up for eternity.
2007-09-16 14:03:04
134.   Ricardo
Grasy, Grady... The Dodgers won´t play tomorrow, why is he afraid to use the bullpen?
2007-09-16 14:04:29
136.   Gen3Blue
I would pinch pitch for Loaiza.
2007-09-16 14:05:57
138.   Ricardo
Loaiza is pitching like Jason Schmidt.
2007-09-16 14:09:36
141.   Gen3Blue
Nice play by Kent.

I love the way Vin is not subtle about his opinion of Loaiza and even Grady's impression of Loaiza. The fact that I can spell Loaiza this soon is very bad.

2007-09-16 14:10:05
143.   imperabo
Baseball would be better if all managerial decisions were made by real-time internet poll.
2007-09-16 14:10:25
147.   Ricardo
140.He still has a job because McCourt is very rich! :P
2007-09-16 14:13:32
149.   Gen3Blue
Poor Lieberthal. He's rusty as a nail and who could blame him. I bet this gig doesn't look as good as it sounded. I think maybe a prospect is better for a second catcher, but its a tough question.
2007-09-16 14:14:37
150.   ToyCannon
Thome just hit his 500th home run in style.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-09-16 14:15:45
152.   Frip
I propose we change the name of Dodger Thoughts to Herm.
2007-09-16 14:15:51
153.   King of the Hobos
149 That prospect would just rust on the bench though, just like Lieberthal, which is far more detrimental to the prospect than Lieberthal. Plus, Lieberthal seems to actually like his current job, otherwise he wouldn't be campaigning to return.
2007-09-16 14:15:53
154.   Bluebleeder87
124

Yup....

2007-09-16 14:16:46
155.   King of the Hobos
143 Except there are a lot more people who want a given team to lose rather than win.
2007-09-16 14:17:04
156.   Gen3Blue
If your lead off men can't get on how can you have a rally.
2007-09-16 14:17:15
157.   Ricardo
Furcal!
2007-09-16 14:20:17
158.   Gen3Blue
153 Thats the truth, and what makes it so hard to figure out. I remember liking it when we had two pretty good catchers splitting the time. I think it was Ferguson and Yeager.
2007-09-16 14:20:18
159.   D4P
Hitting the ball to the opposing pitcher seems to be working pretty well today for the Dodgers.
2007-09-16 14:21:56
161.   Bluebleeder87
Gonzalez (hitter) is relishing this situation I bet.
2007-09-16 14:22:03
162.   Ricardo
Let´s go Gonzo!
2007-09-16 14:23:12
165.   Bluebleeder87
did they just play Sufferin Bruins song??
2007-09-16 14:24:22
166.   Ricardo
164. Yes he needs smoe big hits to convince Grady he can play everyday.
2007-09-16 14:24:34
168.   Bluebleeder87
oh boy...
2007-09-16 14:24:35
169.   MMSMikey
well, andy had no business swinging at such an awful pitch.
2007-09-16 14:24:53
170.   ucladodger
Kent is an abominable baserunner.
2007-09-16 14:25:57
171.   Bluebleeder87
That was totally Kents fault!

You never make the 3rd out at third Kent, you guys see him looking at Loney like it was his fault! SIGH!!

2007-09-16 14:27:44
172.   MMSMikey
i predict a liberthal homerun next inning.
2007-09-16 14:29:15
174.   Suffering Bruin
171 I was thinking the same thing. Kent looked like he was staring daggers at Loney and to my thinking, Kent needed to flash those daggers at a mirror.
2007-09-16 14:30:25
175.   Bluebleeder87
Well at least a rook (Hull) will come in & pitch if Loaiza falters.
2007-09-16 14:32:10
176.   Bluebleeder87
I don't think Zona has seen Hull pitch right? Nice move by Grady if he eventually does come in.
2007-09-16 14:33:08
177.   Suffering Bruin
Did y'all catch Scully's mini-lecture about "pitching to contact?" He basically said a strikeout is preferable.

Sure, it seems obvious but how often have you heard the phrase "pitching to contact?" I hear it a lot.

2007-09-16 14:33:16
178.   Bob Timmermann
The LA Dodgers have never lost a game when the opposition got just one hit. They've lost 14 when the opposition has gotten two hits.
2007-09-16 14:33:59
180.   Suffering Bruin
If this hitter gets on, pull him.
2007-09-16 14:34:26
181.   Bob Timmermann
The LA Dodgers have won two games in which they got one hit and both were in 1965.
2007-09-16 14:35:07
182.   Ricardo
6 walks, Justin Orenduff couldn´t be worse and he´s much cheaper.
2007-09-16 14:35:48
185.   Suffering Bruin
178 I played a Strat-O-Matic baseball game about thirty years ago where I won with one hit. Gene Richards led off with a single, stole second and third and scored a sac fly. It was my only hit and baserunner.

I miss that game.

2007-09-16 14:36:10
187.   Marty
One was Koufax' perfect game.
2007-09-16 14:36:46
188.   Suffering Bruin
When you don't got it, you don't got it.
2007-09-16 14:38:25
190.   Bluebleeder87
7 walks just isn't gonna cut it Loaiza, sorry, fresh arm.
2007-09-16 14:38:28
191.   Blue in Beantown
How clever of us to lock up Loaiza's contract for next year
2007-09-16 14:38:49
192.   alexx
Don't worry, Loaiza is a veteran who knows how to win games. The walks were all part of a bigger plan.
2007-09-16 14:39:24
194.   Suffering Bruin
189 I keep thinking of what Casey Stengel would do. He wouldn't hesitate to pull pitchers out of big games. He thought waiting for a guy to come around was poison.

'Course, it also meant he would start damn near anybody at anytime. Didn't seem to hurt him, though.

2007-09-16 14:39:32
195.   Gen3Blue
I wonder what % they lose when the starter has 7 bbs. How can the opposing team hit it if it doesn't get near the plate?
2007-09-16 14:39:35
196.   Dark Horse
The lousiness of Loaiza is predictable. It's not quite Ned's fault that we have such a pitcher: almost all teams do. (The solution to this is of course contraction.) But we have too many of them. We haven't even bothered to get rid of Hendrickson before bringing in, effectively, a Hendrickson who gets paid twice as much money. Would giving the job to Stults be worse? It'd certainly be cheaper.

And yet, next year, Loaiza will be our fifth starter and will go 1-8 before we replace him with McDonald. It's as plain as day. You just wish that Ned could see that having won 20 games or hit 50 home runs five years ago means nothing if all you've got left is an 81 mile-an-hour fastball.

2007-09-16 14:40:31
198.   Marty
Hull looks like a pre-beard Todd Helton.
2007-09-16 14:41:11
199.   Bob Timmermann
Last pitcher in the majors to give up just one hit and walking at least seven in fewer than seven innings was Oliver Perez of the Mets this year on April 11.
2007-09-16 14:41:47
201.   Suffering Bruin
That was a good pitch... what is this?
Show/Hide Comments 202-250
2007-09-16 14:41:53
202.   MMSMikey
hull has to be nervous, by the way young swung right there.
2007-09-16 14:42:09
203.   Blue in Beantown
Eric Hull the firejumper?
2007-09-16 14:42:12
204.   D4P
The DBacks's 3-5 hitters have 7 walks in 9 PAs.
2007-09-16 14:42:55
207.   Sam in SC
it goes full
2007-09-16 14:43:19
208.   MMSMikey
great job kid
2007-09-16 14:43:36
210.   MollyKnight
Nice.
2007-09-16 14:43:36
211.   Suffering Bruin
He swung at ball four... thankfully.
2007-09-16 14:43:43
212.   Sam in SC
i think he pulled something on that pitch
2007-09-16 14:43:46
213.   Bluebleeder87
I think Hull hurt him self on that pitch, I think it was his leg, but I'm not sure.
2007-09-16 14:44:25
215.   Bluebleeder87
Jonathan Meloan will come in & pitch, right? he was warming up in the pen.
2007-09-16 14:44:33
216.   Ricardo
196. I believe that Ned´s favorite channel is ESPN Classic.
2007-09-16 14:44:50
217.   scareduck
196 - The solution to this is of course contraction.

The solution to this is of course firing Ned.

Being mediocre like everyone else is what got the Dodgers into the mess they're presently in.

And the Dodgers call in Eric Hull, who is who they should have had starting anyway, who would have been a lot cheaper, and about as good as Esteban Lousy to begin with.

181 - The Brooklyn Dodgers never won any such games, which probably says much about their respective parks, abilities, and eras.

2007-09-16 14:44:59
219.   Sam in SC
213 - grabbed at his leg. it looked like his thigh.
2007-09-16 14:45:03
220.   Bob Timmermann
Since moving to Los Angeles, the most walks Dodgers pitchers have given up while allowing just one hit is six. One was a game by Sandy Koufax in 1960 and another was a shutout by Orel Hershiser in 1985.
2007-09-16 14:45:10
221.   nofatmike
Chris Young. Two-Total-Outcomes hitter.
2007-09-16 14:45:43
222.   D4P
Where does Chris Young rank among the all-time worst 30-HR hitters?
2007-09-16 14:46:14
224.   Gen3Blue
181,187 Yes had to be the Koufax-Drysdale
era.
2007-09-16 14:46:34
225.   Sam in SC
we could be 10 games back, and I would still tune into the game just to hear Vin.
2007-09-16 14:47:36
226.   Gen3Blue
OK Andy. The only way to get Laroche hitting is to leave him in till he adjusts,darn it.
2007-09-16 14:48:17
227.   MMSMikey
forget the homerun, mike. lay one down.
2007-09-16 14:48:18
228.   Ricardo
223 He watched the 2001 WS before signing Gonzo!:P
2007-09-16 14:48:20
229.   D4P
another was a shutout by Orel Hershiser in 1985

I was at that game! I always knew it had historical significance.

2007-09-16 14:48:35
231.   Suffering Bruin
225 Amen. I'm not even thinking of what the alternative will inevitably be. I will say I haven't heard or watched an entire Lakers game since Chick passed.
2007-09-16 14:48:55
232.   MollyKnight
He's pinch hitting Nomar instead of Kemp. Shoot me.
2007-09-16 14:49:36
233.   MMSMikey
anyone watch poker on ESPN classic? that stuff is seriously addicting.
2007-09-16 14:50:15
234.   Sam in SC
now for vin's comment that base coaches should wear helmets
2007-09-16 14:50:28
235.   MMSMikey
rule 1 violation.
2007-09-16 14:51:01
238.   MMSMikey
cant disrespect the veteran by asking him to bunt.
2007-09-16 14:51:11
239.   Suffering Bruin
I love who Vin calmly states his "you gotta be kidding me" statements.
2007-09-16 14:52:19
241.   Jon Weisman
Dodgers have had seven baserunners, one run, and two left on base.
2007-09-16 14:52:28
242.   MMSMikey
let libertal swing away, great call there grady.
2007-09-16 14:54:28
244.   Linkmeister
Nice juxtaposition of Browning's perfect game stats to today's Dodger pitching, Vinnie.

Nice suit, too.

2007-09-16 14:55:04
245.   Suffering Bruin
241 I feels like we should have more than one run. We've had ducks on the pond, we just can't...

we can't...

okay, who wants to complete the analogy? I'm stuck.

2007-09-16 14:55:19
246.   ucladodger
Does Rudy pitch in every game?
2007-09-16 14:55:42
247.   Sam in SC
nice save by loney
2007-09-16 14:55:49
248.   Jon Weisman
Peavy so far: seven innings, three hits, no walks, 10 strikeouts, 94 pitches.
2007-09-16 14:56:14
249.   Suffering Bruin
244 I'd spend time listening Vin read the phone book. I'd pay money to hear it.
2007-09-16 14:56:52
250.   Suffering Bruin
248 He be pretty good.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-09-16 14:57:15
251.   Jon Weisman
Personally, I'm not a big fan of the idea of having Lieberthal bunt in that situation. It's not as if he's an automatic double play. I'd rather take the chance that he's gonna do something up there.
2007-09-16 14:57:50
252.   Bob Timmermann
3-0 Padres now in the 7th.
2007-09-16 14:58:16
253.   Suffering Bruin
I had heard that Rudy Seanez is a Mike Marshall disciple? Anybody hear that one? He throws with the motion that Marshall prescribes.
2007-09-16 14:58:22
255.   Linkmeister
241 "force feed them for pâte?"
2007-09-16 14:59:15
256.   eusmus
251 I agree.
2007-09-16 14:59:24
257.   Sam in SC
oh, heavens.

burns is on deck.

2007-09-16 14:59:43
258.   ucladodger
254

It was a hit and run. snyder would have been going to third against anybody.

2007-09-16 15:00:02
259.   scareduck
I'm glad I didn't go to the yard today.
2007-09-16 15:00:09
260.   Suffering Bruin
251 Runners on first and second with no out, I'm bunting. If there were two runners on in any other fashion--or three--I let him swing away. But that situation screamed bunt to me.

For now, it appears this treatise is superfluous, what with another DBack run coming home.

2007-09-16 15:00:43
261.   MMSMikey
this is another reason grady cant manage, i mean, does he ever hit and run? to put pressure on the defense? he never does.
2007-09-16 15:00:51
262.   Gen3Blue
Not looking good at this point.

But 140 Herm has got me thinking,although it won't be a coherent thought till arter the game.

2007-09-16 15:01:21
264.   Dark Horse
217-Yeah, sure enough. But McDuck isn't going to fire Neddo, at least not yet. He should. The disaster of this season seems to me that it isn't enough of one. We've been "in it" all the way.

Ugh.

2007-09-16 15:01:22
265.   MMSMikey
furcal should have went to 3rd there
2007-09-16 15:01:30
266.   Suffering Bruin
To clarify 251 : That's with Lieberthal batting.
2007-09-16 15:01:45
267.   Sam in SC
i feel funny rooting for the giants.
2007-09-16 15:01:49
268.   ucladodger
What a disgusting showing for such an important game. No Kemp, no russell, Loaiza stinking, bad baserunning. Yuck.
2007-09-16 15:01:59
269.   Linkmeister
In the current SI there's a story about Byrnes in which it's noted that he has a baseball autographed by Vin.

I'm just sayin'.

2007-09-16 15:02:27
270.   Suffering Bruin
266 should refer to 260 and not 251 as 260 was in response to 251 and...

I'm lost.

2007-09-16 15:02:52
271.   JT Dutch
... Pretty obvious that the Dodgers have beaten themselves today. Not to mention by keeping Kemp on the bench, they're giving the opposition a handicap.

This season has been so much fun, hasn't it?

2007-09-16 15:03:19
273.   Jon Weisman
261 - isn't true.
260 - I know what you're saying, but it's because the odds were strong that Arizona was going to score more this game that I'd not want to bunt.
2007-09-16 15:04:03
274.   eusmus
268 I'm glad Russell finally got some rest. Matt Kemp should definitely be playing.
2007-09-16 15:04:41
275.   scareduck
261 - I don't think Grady considers it because he insists on leaving geriatric players in the game, and in the case of Slappy, he can't hit and he's behind Furcal, whose speed at this point in the season and/or his career is somewhat suspect.
2007-09-16 15:06:00
276.   Linkmeister
270 "and the hip bone connected to the _ thigh bone, and the thigh bone connected to the - knee bone, and the. . ."
2007-09-16 15:06:20
277.   Bob Timmermann
I saw the Dodgers hit and run on Thursday night against the Padres. Furcal was sent with a 3-1 count and Pierre at bat. Pierre singled and Furcal went to third on a hit to left field.

Why do people make blanket statements like "Grady Little never calls for the hit and run" or "Broxton can't pitch with runners on base" when they are patently false?

2007-09-16 15:06:21
278.   Jon Weisman
261/275 - I don't know what you guys are talking about. Grady has hit and run more times than I can remember - regrettably, with some of those old guys on base.
2007-09-16 15:06:38
279.   King of the Hobos
253 Really? It doesn't really seem like it to me, but I'm not too familiar with the intricacies of it. Here's video of Jeff Sparks:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-marshall051007&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

2007-09-16 15:09:19
281.   ucladodger
274

Russell needs rest, but not today. He needed rest consistently throughout the season which he did not get. You just cant rest one of your best players in an important game against the division leader.

2007-09-16 15:09:56
282.   Jon Weisman
Vin regarding the guy running on the field: "You know the expression, 'Get a life?'" Awesome.

"There's no glory in it. You don't gain anything from it. You look foolish. Oh, some people will cheer ... I never could understand it."

2007-09-16 15:10:29
283.   MMSMikey
i just want to strangle him sometimes.
2007-09-16 15:10:39
284.   Suffering Bruin
279 I had read that Seanez went to see him. The arm release of Seanez is very similar to Marshall's principles. Marshall's vids are on the net and available. I suppose he would be a pitching coach if he didn't have the people skills of a rabid badger.
2007-09-16 15:10:42
285.   bluedog
If Loney,Kent or Gonzalez were batting I would let them swing away but not Lieberthal.
2007-09-16 15:12:48
286.   eusmus
281 If Russell's knee didn't need surgery in the off season, I would agee. I cringe everytime I see him at bat.
2007-09-16 15:12:57
287.   Suffering Bruin
282 Given world enough and time, I would write a paper specifically outlining what Vin does that adds to the enjoyment of a game. No one is more "in" to the game, no one captures the interest of the fan more, no one is able to gauge the interest of a game better.

Given world enough and time, I'd write why.

2007-09-16 15:14:14
288.   King of the Hobos
284 It even say Rudy worked with him in the article I posted, so I feel dumb. He worked with Marshall in '89, which could explain the difference in his and Sparks' pitching mechanics.
2007-09-16 15:14:42
289.   Suffering Bruin
281 You can do it if you have other guys who are really good. The Dodgers I think will have another one of those guys next season but not this season. So Russell plays and often.

Next year, with more talent, he can rest more.

2007-09-16 15:15:11
290.   MMSMikey
1 pitch. one of those days. ugh.
2007-09-16 15:16:32
291.   dzzrtRatt
281 Day off tomorrow means Russ can get two days off in a row, which he'll need because he's catching a double header Tuesday to start four big games in Colorado. Perfect day to rest him.

We won't win them all. If we lose today to the division-leader, it will be complicating for our chances, but not exactly a surprise.

I just want to see the Giants show a little pride in San Diego. No way should we have to figure on a team in our own division going to sleep in a pennant-affecting series. Likewise the Mets. Getting swept in Shea? What kind of "best team in the NL" does that?

2007-09-16 15:17:43
292.   Suffering Bruin
288 Thanks. I knew I read it somewhere. Marshall believes that he has discovered a style that will eliminate arm injuries and not adversely affect velocity.

Like I said, I think he would get hired but by his own reckoning, he would be a pain in the kiester to work with.

2007-09-16 15:18:33
293.   dzzrtRatt
The Dodgers' middle relief today shows why they kept Billingsley in that role for so long.
2007-09-16 15:18:48
294.   ucladodger
289

Thats not true. Lieberthal is a fine backup, but he's had what, 70 AB's this year? He is a fine backup, a guy who you can plug in there once a week and have him not hurt the team. Theres a reason why you have him on the team. You plug him in on a day game agains the Nats or getaway day against the Pirates. You play him once a week so Russell gets enough rest that he doesnt have to sit out in an important game such as this.

2007-09-16 15:19:53
295.   scareduck
278 - if you say so, Jon; you've undoubtedly watched the Dodgers more than I have this year, but it seems to me that with the lineups I've seen Grady assemble this year, it would be hard.
2007-09-16 15:19:59
296.   nofatmike
293 So they could let Tomko and Hendrickson start games?
2007-09-16 15:20:30
297.   Jon Weisman
293 - Maybe, but it's faulty reasoning. The more good starters you have, the less you need to rely on your middle relief and the more effective it will be.
2007-09-16 15:21:16
298.   scareduck
287 -- Given world enough and time

The Dodgers would not be NLCS virgins.

2007-09-16 15:21:32
299.   King of the Hobos
292 I wonder how well Seanez knows the whole program, as he could probably find a job as a pitching coach fairly soon, and from what I hear, he's not nearly as hard to work with as Marshall.
2007-09-16 15:22:21
300.   Gen3Blue
267Isn't it a strange feeling?
Pierre is like two players. I really appreciate him sometimes when he makes the pitcher overwork and then steals a base.
But today he gets caught stealing and then makes that horrendous bunt last AB.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-09-16 15:23:23
301.   JT Dutch
... Very impressive inning for Houlton.
2007-09-16 15:24:16
302.   scareduck
300 - Pierre is like two players.

Can we trade one of them for a real leadoff man, then?

2007-09-16 15:25:08
303.   King of the Hobos
Nice inning by Houlton. He now has a better ERA than Loaiza!
2007-09-16 15:26:18
304.   scareduck
292 - Marshall believes that he has discovered a style that will eliminate arm injuries and not adversely affect velocity.

I have discovered a wonderful proof of this, but the margin is too small to contain it.

2007-09-16 15:26:26
305.   Ricardo
300.If Pierre earned 3 millions per year, would he be overpaid?
2007-09-16 15:26:31
306.   Suffering Bruin
294 I'm not sure I'm following the thread of our conversation. We may not even be disagreeing. My point is that Russ was the best player on this team by far for many a moon and we couldn't do without him. The dropoff between Russ and the second best player on the Dodgers was--and perhaps still is--huge.

I like Lieberthal. Heck, I interviewed him 18 years ago (Westlake High School). But the difference between Russ and Mike is huge.

Next season, we gotta cure that. We have to have some damn good regulars in the lineup. It's why we've been screaming for the youngstah's since April. Loney will be great, Kemp hopefully will be and maybe--just maybe--we can get a sluggardly slugger, too.

2007-09-16 15:26:50
307.   JT Dutch
... Another leadoff batter aboard. Let's see how the Dodgers do with this opportunity.
2007-09-16 15:27:11
308.   dzzrtRatt
297 When you're literally watching an ulcer form in your stomach as pitchers like Houlton and Seanez throw pitches out of the strike zone, you don't have time for un-faulty reasoning.

But you and nofatmike are clearly correct. I just remember it as a nice luxury to have Chad to stop the bleeding. I would never want to have him back in that role.

2007-09-16 15:27:43
309.   Suffering Bruin
298 :)
2007-09-16 15:29:38
311.   Suffering Bruin
304 Marshall won't have a sample size unless he gets a personality transplant.
2007-09-16 15:31:44
313.   oswald
i don't get grady's brain. he doesn't like meloan because he was a little wild and is young, but in a game like this he starts laroche over nomar (who looked like he might start to get going).
2007-09-16 15:33:07
314.   JT Dutch
... This move by Grady I can understand. Pena is death on RHB (.168 AVG, 488 OPS allowed).
2007-09-16 15:33:32
315.   MollyKnight
Um, is Delwyn Young's at-bat song "Like a Cholo?"

Really?

2007-09-16 15:33:47
316.   Reddog
I think we should trade LaRoche, Pierre, Nomar and Loaiza for A-Rod.
2007-09-16 15:34:30
317.   oswald
young looks like he's got a really live bat.
2007-09-16 15:34:40
318.   Sam in SC
this kid can hit. I saw him in A ball
2007-09-16 15:34:58
319.   King of the Hobos
Young blistered the ball at least 3 of those pitches, it's really too bad that he had to hit it near the other Young.
2007-09-16 15:35:26
321.   scareduck
311 - http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath363.htm in case you didn't get my 304 .
2007-09-16 15:36:40
323.   scareduck
320 - rank speculation.
2007-09-16 15:36:44
324.   trainwreck
315
I thought that was funny too.
2007-09-16 15:37:19
325.   Suffering Bruin
316 "Hello! And thank you for calling the New York Yankees! We appreciate your trade offer but

a) we like Loaiza as much as you do and
b) we've seen Nomar's medical history and
c) we like to know our third baseman can bend over in the future (we've already got Betemit!) and
d) we've read the threads on DT. We know what Pierre is like!

Thanks for calling..."

2007-09-16 15:38:25
326.   oswald
best case scenario 2008

c martin/lieberthal
1b loney
2b kent/abreu
ss furcal
3b laroche/nomar
lf young
cf kemp
rf ethier

pierre becomes a highly paid pinch runner.

but most of all ...

SOMEBODY BESIDES GRADY LITTLE AS MANAGER

2007-09-16 15:38:40
327.   Suffering Bruin
321 In case I didn't get it? I wasn't even in the same zip code! :)
2007-09-16 15:38:53
328.   Jon Weisman
It seems more and more likely to me that A-Rod stays with the Yankees with an extension.
2007-09-16 15:40:20
330.   eusmus
Ned Colletti is to busy drafting a 5 year deal for Mike Lowell anyway.
2007-09-16 15:41:05
331.   oswald
hmmm ... dodgers score only one run without kemp and martin and nomar in the lineup? shocking, just shocking ...
2007-09-16 15:41:49
333.   Suffering Bruin
For folks who know because I don't think I do:

Did the D-Backs decide at some point this year, if not from the beginning, that they would dump the kids in the deep end of the pool and see what happens? It's worked obviously but I want to know how it happened. Was it by design? Necessity?

And most importantly, are they doing what we could have been doing?

I'll be honest... I don't even know what I'm asking this point. This game has got me bumfuzzled.

2007-09-16 15:42:08
335.   eusmus
331 Nomar is pretty awful though...
2007-09-16 15:42:40
337.   Curtis Lowe
Should Houlton start in place of Loaiza?
2007-09-16 15:43:33
339.   oswald
334, 335 he's better than laroche right now. the kid looks lost at the plate. even vin said he looked like he was guessing up there. and nomar has shown signs of life in this series.
2007-09-16 15:44:38
342.   Suffering Bruin
New York Times today: Rodriguez Is Worth a Few More Wins, but Not $30 Million
2007-09-16 15:45:19
343.   oswald
i think kemp has been benched for some reason (maybe a disciplinary issue). why not pinch him for the pitcher.
2007-09-16 15:46:15
345.   oswald
341 i don't mean that laroche should be traded or that he's no good. i just mean today. today was not the day to start him.
2007-09-16 15:46:22
346.   Jon Weisman
Please, if you've already said today you want to get rid of Grady Little, or don't want Loaiza to start again, or don't like Pierre, or whatever, don't say it again. The repetition is starting to drive me crazy.
2007-09-16 15:46:30
347.   dzzrtRatt
Perfect place for Kemp to pinch hit. But no, Pierre gets to bat.
2007-09-16 15:46:33
348.   Suffering Bruin
Just picking up where I left off earlier: Vin and the number 16 he was talking about? That's Vin being into the game.

I guarantee you the Fox guys would talking about damn near anything else.

2007-09-16 15:46:44
349.   ucladodger
Why is Broxton going to pitch the 9th? I understnad we have an off day tomorrow, but he might have to be used twice monday.
2007-09-16 15:47:40
350.   Jon Weisman
343 - I'm sure they're saving Kemp for a situation with runners on base (especially now that Garciaparra has been used). As far as not starting him, it's all part of the outfield rotation that's been going on for weeks now. There's no mystery.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-09-16 15:48:27
351.   Frip
We're simply not that interested in winning this game.
2007-09-16 15:48:56
353.   dzzrtRatt
I would be okay with Pierre retiring as a player and becoming the Dodgers' manager.
2007-09-16 15:49:00
354.   D4P
Despite hitting only .204, LaRoche's OPS is only 2 points behind Pierre's.
2007-09-16 15:49:17
355.   King of the Hobos
333 Josh Byrnes came into the season without viable PVL replacements for his younger players (save maybe Eric Byrnes for Chris Young, but then there would have been no left fielder). Outside of Clark and Ojeda, there really haven't been any hitters over 30 on the roster for any length of time. Basically, Byrnes is the anti-Ned Colletti when it comes to PVLs.
2007-09-16 15:49:24
356.   Jon Weisman
347 - Kemp with two out and none on vs. Kemp batting after Loney/Kent/Gonzalez? I'll take the latter.
2007-09-16 15:50:05
357.   D4P
I would be okay with Pierre retiring as a player and becoming the Dodgers' manager

Or even the hitting coach.

2007-09-16 15:50:20
359.   Suffering Bruin
The Raiders are staying with the Broncos and Cleveland's quarterback--whoever it is--threw five TD's in a win over Cincy.

I expect frogs to fall from the sky any second now.

2007-09-16 15:51:48
360.   scareduck
333 - design and necessity. The moves to pick up Shawn Green (and from memory, Randy Johnson) were ancien regime maneuvers. As with the new colors, ownership wanted to distance themselves from the old Joe Garagiola-led group. There was a concerted effort to move all the older players, clearing the way for the kids to play. A friend of mine at work knows Jeff Moorad, who used to be Green's agent and is now the Snakes' managing general partner (and IIRC was the GM until Josh Byrnes came in), and so I've heard it from both ends.
2007-09-16 15:52:21
361.   Bob Timmermann
I guess Broxton can't pitch with no one on base.
2007-09-16 15:53:04
362.   D4P
Eric Byrnes hits a ground-rule double (29) on a ground ball down the right-field line

...???

2007-09-16 15:53:59
363.   eusmus
363 Interference.
2007-09-16 15:54:06
364.   dzzrtRatt
350 Pierre isn't part of the rotation. The rotation rotates around him. It seemed to me Kemp is more likely to get on base with two outs, and then with Loney coming up, something could happen. Loney drives in runs.

Now we lead off with Loney in the 9th...maybe Kemp will bat for Gonzalez.

2007-09-16 15:54:07
365.   Monterey Chris
362

Fan touched the ball.

2007-09-16 15:54:12
366.   scareduck
344 , 352 - about ten wins:

http://tinyurl.com/29lt6b

2007-09-16 15:54:39
367.   Bob Timmermann
360
The DBacks had a pile of debt higher than Camelback Mountain with player contracts making up a lot of it. They needed to go lean or else they would have a really big cash flow problem.

They've managed to right the ship, but the fans still haven't come out as much as they did back in the heyday of Tony Womack and Jay Bell.

2007-09-16 15:54:51
368.   Suffering Bruin
359 thanks for that.
2007-09-16 15:59:38
369.   pen
365
Good thing too, Byrnes might have tripled on that hit.
2007-09-16 16:00:02
370.   Suffering Bruin
The Raiders have gone ahead of Denver with 4:55 left. The game should be over by the time this at-bat ends.
2007-09-16 16:01:26
371.   scareduck
340 - exactly. Houlton has an unknown upside, and is probably every bit as good as Loiaza ever will be. Ned just likes to use the excuse of collecting depth, but the Dodgers' rotation seems to consist principally of depth.
2007-09-16 16:01:30
372.   King of the Hobos
Hernandez is the bullpen. Better hope for a triple play.
2007-09-16 16:02:48
373.   ucladodger
again, why is Broxton pitching? This is his 4th game in 5 says. Completely unnecesarry in this spot. We have an extended bullpen, use it. Let Hernandez or Meloan throw the ninth.
2007-09-16 16:04:12
374.   Gilberto Reyes
Broxton should be in there. This is a must win game.
2007-09-16 16:04:18
375.   D4P
the Dodgers' rotation seems to consist principally of depth

And breadth

http://tinyurl.com/233lgh

2007-09-16 16:04:37
376.   Suffering Bruin
If I still think I can win this game, I want Broxton on the hill.
2007-09-16 16:05:11
377.   scareduck
374 - Broxton was a starter. I have no problem with him being used in this way, especially given the lack of other attractive options in the bullpen, i.e. Hernandez.
2007-09-16 16:06:03
378.   Suffering Bruin
Be sure to leave your trays in the upright position.
2007-09-16 16:06:16
379.   scareduck
Okay, now we can let Hernandez pitch.

It's been fun, kids. I'm going to our new house to paint a wall. Whee.

2007-09-16 16:06:16
380.   imperabo
Why was the infield drawn in?
2007-09-16 16:06:20
381.   Gilberto Reyes
OK. Now you can bring in Hernandez or Meloan. 6-1.
2007-09-16 16:08:46
382.   scareduck
380 - Because Grady Little is criminally negligent?

At BTF the other day, in reference to the Cubs' 2004 season in which Chicago had a game and a half lead in the Wild Card and ten games to go against mostly sub-.500 teams, somebody called Dusty Baker the Winburglar. Seeing that from Grady makes me wonder if the sobriquet might apply to him, too.

2007-09-16 16:10:21
383.   Curtis Lowe
Has Broxton really been used in 13 of 15?
2007-09-16 16:11:30
384.   D4P
The DBacks don't have Chris Young to thank for the 6-1 lead.
2007-09-16 16:13:47
385.   Curtis Lowe
Err, 12 of the last 15. Even though his fastball still has life, his control and slider seem off. Isn't the expanded roster supposed to save your bullpen?
2007-09-16 16:15:13
386.   D4P
BTW: Are we witnessing Chad Moeller's Dodger debut today...?
2007-09-16 16:16:58
387.   Bob Timmermann
Surprisingly, the Dodgers had won their last four games in which their pitchers had walked at least nine in a nine-inning game.
2007-09-16 16:17:07
388.   Disabled List
The Dodgers are about to lose, the Phillies and Padres won, my fantasy football squads are being pummeled, my NFL locks are going down the drain, and I'm still in a hangover from the UCLA debacle yesterday.

There is much fear and loathing at DL's house right now.

2007-09-16 16:17:41
389.   Bob Timmermann
386
Moeller got in for a couple of innings, but didn't bat against the Padres I believe.
2007-09-16 16:18:11
390.   Marty
Be sure to leave your trays in the upright position.

I've heard that WAY too often lately.

2007-09-16 16:19:29
391.   King of the Hobos
383 Just 10 of 15

386 No, he caught for an inning on the 11th.

2007-09-16 16:20:20
392.   dzzrtRatt
Jeff Kent is to third base what Gollum is to the Ring.
2007-09-16 16:20:20
393.   King of the Hobos
387 How many of those did Ishii start?
2007-09-16 16:20:29
394.   D4P
One of these days, Chad will actually get to hit. For now, he'll have to be content with stopping the ball from going to the backstop for a few innings a week.
2007-09-16 16:21:11
395.   D4P
Did Sweeney just pinch-hit for LaRoche...?
2007-09-16 16:21:52
396.   Marty
Can Froemming take Angel Hernandez and Joe West with him?
2007-09-16 16:23:06
397.   King of the Hobos
395 Yes, because when you're down 5 runs with 2 outs and a runner on in the 9th, playing matchups is vital for winning the game.
2007-09-16 16:24:23
398.   Bob Timmermann
393
They were all last year. Three were starts by Penny and the other was by Hendrickson.

In each case, the starter got knocked around early. One of them was a 19-11 win in Colorado.

2007-09-16 16:26:04
399.   Jon Weisman
Open chat at Screen Jam for tonight.
2007-09-16 16:33:26
400.   Gen3Blue
To my mind Hull and particularly Houlton look every bit as good, and perhaps better than several of our multi million dollar starters of the recent past and present. It is very obvious and I don't think I have to name names.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-09-16 16:36:21
401.   D4P
To my mind Hull and particularly Houlton look every bit as good, and perhaps better than several of our multi million dollar starters of the recent past and present

Playing Hulls and Houltons is too much in line with the philosophy of the previous administration, and is interpreted by too many fans as "not being willing to spend money" and/or "not committed to winning". Plus, it can get you fired if it fails.

2007-09-16 16:38:43
402.   Dodgers49
Some thought Lieberthal should bunt. Some thought he should hit. So I guess I'm all by myself here. But I was actually hoping Grady would pinch hit with Sweeney there. He had a third catcher on the roster. And even though it was a bit early for Sweeney there were plenty of hitters left on the bench. Anything Lieberthal hits on the ground is a double play. And at 3-1 I really wanted to score there.
2007-09-16 16:48:11
403.   Gen3Blue
402 I will admit that double play was perhaps the "killer moment" of the gamer.
2007-09-16 16:58:03
404.   Jon Weisman
402 - I would have been fine with pinch-hitting there.
2007-09-16 17:05:32
405.   LogikReader
The Dodgers are still 2.5 back of the Padres? Is that right?

Edit: I forgot that the Padres series put the Dodgers back up to 1.5. Somehow I thought we were at 3.5 now.

ps: Thanks for nothing, Giants.

2007-09-16 17:15:11
406.   Dodgers49
Tony Jackson finally updated his blog. In case anyone's interested. :-)
2007-09-16 17:43:59
407.   Izzy
Vin seemed unusually nostalgic today, when Froemming was walking off the field. I also noticed that Bruce lives in Vero, which probally explains why he is at Holman all the time. I wonder if he is a closet Dodger fan? I'll have to ask my bookie.
2007-09-16 17:44:23
408.   Izzy
I mean my bookeeper. At work.
2007-09-16 17:50:10
409.   delias man
Harvey that does dodgertalk on 980 says he got a call during the break from rawitch where he was to quit telling the truth about little's bad decisions. His show is awful, but at least he does tell the truth. He was right when he says nobody in the times, daily news, etc will ask why kemp sat 2 days in a row, etc.
2007-09-16 17:50:15
410.   Dodgers49
As I mentioned earlier, we're facing two lefthanders Tuesday. I'm predicting Kemp will have a Loney-like game (or two). He will certainly be well rested.
2007-09-16 18:11:56
411.   King of the Hobos
Apparently it's expected that the Astros GM will be named sometime next week. McLane will be out of town until Tuesday night, and they will start the second round of interviews sometime thereafter. No word on who the current favorites are or White's status.
2007-09-16 19:37:47
412.   Reddog
Vin was saying today how great Loney has been this year, and pointing out that he did great last September, hit .440 during spring training, and they still sent him down to the minors for 2 1/2 months.

Dodger management is stupid, there's no other way to say it. They probably cost us the pennant. We'd be 5 games in front now if they would have let the best players play.

2007-09-16 20:08:41
413.   LAT
Have not read the thread so maybe this was discussed up top, but is Jim Tracey pissed enough at the Dodgers to tank a series with the Padres?

The problem is its hard to know when the Buc's are tanking it and when the just plain stink.

2007-09-16 20:16:39
414.   Bob Timmermann
413
You seriously think Jim Tracy would wish to be permanently banned from baseball?

That is completely outrageous.

2007-09-16 20:17:31
415.   Big Show
In what seemed to be a "lost" season by ISoPedroza, he managed to end the season with a bang when he mashed a 3-run HR that led the Montgomery Biscuits to their 2nd consecutive Southern League Championship.

As a Devil Rays fan, I'd like to thank the Dodgers for giving us some winners(even if it's the minor leagues)

Won't be surprised if a trade involving the Dodgers and Rocco Baldelli happens this offseason, so I won't be a stanger.

2007-09-16 20:23:39
416.   regfairfield
414 I would think the standard Jim Tracy managerial tactics would do nicely.
2007-09-16 20:56:39
417.   Bob Timmermann
I know people are making the remarks about Tracy facetiously, but I find it very disturbing that people think that a manager or a team would not play its best in a game just out of some sort of spite that some of us just IMAGINE that they have.

What exactly would Jim Tracy do to have the Pirates "lay down"? Would he read up on the 1919 World Series? Would he tell Freddy Sanchez to stop hitting? Would he tell his players to bunt with two outs?

I don't get it. When I read substandard ramblings in 414 from people I thought I had respect for, I just wonder what we've all turned into.

I think the Pittsburgh Pirates players are owed an apology. I think Jim Tracy is owed an apology. That guy has been accused of the one unpardonable sin according to many of us: HE DISAGREED with us.

2007-09-16 21:00:10
418.   Dodgers49
413. The Pirates won't have to face Peavy so I'm looking for them to split that 4-game series. But Tracy is facing the problem of having to deal again with a GM that didn't hire him so he has more to worry about than any grudge against the Dodgers.
2007-09-16 21:04:39
419.   KG16
417 - well said Bob. I never had much of a problem with Tracy, honestly, I liked him... sure, I didn't always like his use of the bunt or his continually turning to Scott Erikson and/or Carlos Perez but otherwise, he was the best manager for the team we had at the time.

I can not believe that any manager, coach, or player would even think of throwing a game. When teams lose games, managers tend to lose their jobs. The players are playing for new contracts or to hang on to what many of us would call The Greatest Job In the History of The World™. So, no, they are not going to tank the games, they're going to play, for pride and for money and because it's their job. They might not win, because relatively speaking, they aren't very good, but they aren't going to purposefully lose.

2007-09-16 21:10:03
420.   Eric Enders
417
1. The remarks were, as you acknowledged, clearly facetious, so why would an apology be necessary? (Unless your apology demand was itself facetious, in which case we've out-faceted ourselves, or something.)

2. Players and managers have thrown baseball games before, including the World Series. More recently, managers have bet on baseball games. Even more recently, basketball players and referees have been caught shaving points. It's not something that's 100% out of the realm of possibility.

3. While I too find it laughable that a manager would intentionally lose games out of spite, I don't find it implausible at all that a manager would "try less hard" -- i.e. make stupid moves or put lousy players into the lineup -- for tactical reasons, such as getting a higher draft pick. That's happened in the NBA, probably. Why not baseball? The Expos owners (that is, the other 29 owners) clearly tanked a couple of seasons in Montreal to make deserting the town more publicly palatable.

2007-09-16 21:14:08
421.   LAT
414, 417. Bob, you are absolutely right. Regardless of what I may think of JT's managerial abilities his integrity has never been in question and he didn't deserve my cheap shot. That being said, I think the idea that a major league manager would never "lay down" is naive. Of course there are subtler shades to throwing games than the Black Sox. I believe there are managers and egos who could be influenced or rationalize the decision not to put their best team on the field to fulfill a grudge. It just happens that JT is not one of them.
2007-09-16 21:16:53
422.   Eric Enders
420 Also, while the idea of Tracy tanking the Padres series is ludicrous, the notion that he would be risking banishment from baseball for doing so is equally ludicrous. Who besides him would know? What's he going to do, call up Bud Selig and say, "Hey, I was throwing games, that's why I started Jose Castillo."
2007-09-16 21:21:36
423.   Bob Timmermann
Baseball players, managers, and front office people move around so much that they likely would need a large relational database to keep track of their grudges. Does it flash up potential "grudge conflicts" like a scheduling program does when you put yourself down for two meetings at the same time?

Shouldn't Jim Tracy just as much hold a grudge against the Special Assistant to the GM of the Padres as he does toward the Dodgers?

Is there a hierarchy of grudges that people operate on? If so, can I utilize this information to make big bucks in Vegas?

Did Brett Tomko pitch well for the Padres Saturday because he wanted to harm the Dodgers or did he just happen to pitch well against not a particularly good team?

Is David Wells trying to get back at his old team?

I think equating Jim Tracy with Pete Rose is hard for me to accept.

2007-09-16 21:23:39
424.   Daniel Zappala
Some levity is in order here -- I don't think anyone noticed that in 417 Bob referenced his own post in 414 as an example of a substandard rambling. Bob, you're too hard on yourself.

Clearly LAT hit a sore spot, but look, LAT is apologetic so all is well. Let's all have a group hug.

May the Dodgers sweep their next two series.

2007-09-16 21:23:57
425.   Bob Timmermann
To me "tanking" implies taking some positive action to have your team lose, i.e. fixing.
2007-09-16 21:25:21
426.   KG16
So, I haven't read through the thread (I only caught part of the game on my way to play cards), which means that I don't know if this has been discussed but, what are we looking at to make the playoffs?

Obviously, the three next weekend with Arizona will be critical as those are the only one's left against a team ahead of the Dodgers. But other than winning those three, what do the bums need to do the rest of the way?

I'm thinking they've got to play about .800 baseball (win 10 of 13 or so). That seem about right to anyone else? Obvious we'll need help from San Fran, Colorado, the Brewers, and the Pirates.

2007-09-16 21:26:34
427.   Bob Timmermann
Well, actually I wasn't poking fun of myself, I was merely too angry to write down the write number.

But I'll bow out of this and get back to write my post for tomorrow about a truly dreadful team.

2007-09-16 21:27:32
428.   Bob Timmermann
I was too angry to write "right" correctly.

I just don't do anger well.

Maybe I'll go find a recording of the UCLA-Utah game to calm me down.

2007-09-16 21:29:06
429.   regfairfield
426 Pretty much win out. The Diamondbacks are out of reach, so beating them doesn't seem all that more important than anyone else. If the Padres just play .500 ball the rest of the way, we would have to go 10-3 just to tie, never mind what the Phillies do.

Barring a complete collapse by both the Padres and the Phillies, our next loss is probably our last.

2007-09-16 21:30:16
430.   Eric Enders
426 Tonight, for the first time all year, the Dodgers' destiny is out of their own hands. That is, even if we sweep the three with AZ -- even if we go undefeated the rest of the year -- we'll still need help from other teams.

What we need, probably, is to add Kirk Gibson, Bobby Thomson, Doug Flutie, Dwight Clark, and Anthony Atkinson to our roster.

2007-09-16 21:30:48
431.   KG16
Watching Sportscenter, I see that the Rams and Raiders both lost today... that makes me feel good. Almost as good as when a pretty girl gives me her number and says, "Call me, I want to do unspeakable things to you."

Ok, not nearly that good, but still, good.

2007-09-16 21:41:07
432.   dzzrtRatt
Tracy has much more incentive to show up the Padres, who tormented him many times during his managerial reign. He's also probably auditioning for another job, because he's likely to lose this one. I'm not worried. I just hope the Pirates good pitchers are queued up.
2007-09-16 21:41:39
433.   trainwreck
431
Grrrrr.

I am not even sure why I subject myself to watching football anymore.

2007-09-16 21:42:11
434.   Eric Enders
Which raises the question, if you're not good enough to manage the Pirates, who are you good enough to manage?
2007-09-16 21:46:33
435.   bhsportsguy
433 Timeout.

53 days until UCLA basketball starts.
66 days until Jrue and the rest sign their LOI.

2007-09-16 21:49:43
436.   KG16
433 - you watch football the same reason the rest of us do: to pass time between the end of the baseball season and the start of the basketball season.

I have to admit, having gone to a school that doesn't have a team and not having an NFL team in the market, football really is third on my interest list behind baseball and basketball.

2007-09-16 21:52:26
437.   trainwreck
435
53 days cannot come soon enough.
2007-09-16 21:56:35
438.   Bob Timmermann
Mon- Van Benschoten vs Cassel
Tues - Gorzelanny vs Maddux
Wed - Snell vs Tall Chris Young
Thurs - Morris vs Tomko
2007-09-16 22:00:02
439.   bhsportsguy
437 If you come down to LA during the season, let me know, I hereby invite to a b-ball game, we can talk about how the Dodgers can afford their newly signed 3B (A-Rod) and if Kevin Love will hang a banner at Pauley.

I'd say something about the football team but I refuse to think about it until Friday.

2007-09-16 22:06:15
440.   trainwreck
439
If I head down, I will make sure to let you know.
2007-09-16 22:58:58
441.   DodgerPhan
Does anyone know the Dodger record when Matt Kemp starts? It seems to me we lose a LOT of games where he doesn't... It doesn't make much sense to me that on a team full of offensively challenged players, the guy with the highest average/obp, and arguably the most powerful hitter on the roster is stuck in a platoon.
2007-09-16 23:03:52
442.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers are 31-25 when Matt Kemp starts. They are 48-45 when he doesn't.
2007-09-16 23:11:18
443.   Bob Timmermann
Winning games participated in by Dodgers players in 2007:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/xceg

2007-09-16 23:12:22
444.   King of the Hobos
Regarding the Pirates comments, while they are not intentionally throwing games, the Pirates are making a concerted effort to play younger players and what not, which in theory prevents them from playing their best players. Now, whether removing Tony Armas from the rotation in favor of giving John VanBenschoten a few starts is really much of a loss is another debate entirely. Nonetheless, since Coonelly has come, he has specifically looked to play certain players that may not result in the best lineup, so it's effectively his fault and not Tracy's.
2007-09-16 23:14:00
445.   King of the Hobos
443 Clearly we should play Pierre everyday, he leads the teams in wins!
2007-09-16 23:16:04
446.   King of the Hobos
Saw this on Primer:

"People want to talk stuff about our offense," [the elder] Giles quipped. "They move the fences back, they take steroids away, what do you expect?"

2007-09-16 23:32:06
447.   Dodgers49
443. And why would Randy Wolf show as 2 games?
2007-09-16 23:33:22
448.   Bob Timmermann
447
I didn't include pitchers when they pitched, but they do show up in the list when they were pinch runners or pinch hitters.
2007-09-16 23:42:09
449.   Dodgers49
448. Okay. And I agree with 445. For some reason we haven't managed to win any games in which Juan Pierre did not participate. I'm finally beginning to realize just how valuable he is.
2007-09-16 23:45:12
450.   Bob Timmermann
Grady Sizemore has appeared in the most winning games this year in the majors.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-09-16 23:54:16
451.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-09-17 03:52:55
452.   dgrimes248
Posted by Butch
...........speaking of Tony Jackson: a couple of questions (i live in N Y so I'm not very astute about the LA scene)....his blogs seem so sporatic..sometimes he will post 3 or more different comments and also write a piece for his newspaper and other times there are NO blos for days at a time..........is he a semi-part-timer or what? there are times when I expect a comment from him.......and there's only silence. maybe I'm missing something, not being a socal resident. any explainations??
thanks,
Butch

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