Great day for baseball; let's comment on two!

101 (from last thread)

was a great read from BP, I have the Cory Schwartz (fantasy411, mlb.com) frame of mind about Coors field/Colorado in that, you deal with the cards your dealt with & don't try & change/alter things by humidoring the ML Balls

Did gameday drop the strikezone?

No NPUT on the last thread

It's always a good day when Pierre walks.

This business of throwing non-strikes to Pierre has me confused.

Pierre now has more walks in September than any other month this year.

If I were Francis, I'd be more concerned about Kemp than Pierre.

7 He's also sporting a .380 OBP this month.

I think Bills will have a pretty good day at Coors Field, he's been throwing strikes so i'm pretty optimistic

If that ball was where gameday placed it, Kemp should have hit that pitch out 2-0.

7 Maybe he's shrinking.

Walking Kent to get to Loney, yeah, that's a smart move.

5- Surprisingly, that's not true. In games in which Pierre's only offensive contribution is one walk, the Dodgers are 1-9. They were 0-9, before Saturday.

Walking Kent to get to Loney? Make 'em pay.

They're walking Kent to face Loney with two outs? Have they been watching Sports Center this past month?

thank you, clint hurdle.

Is anyboy else having problems with the mlb.com feed. I'm reall sulking over missing a Pierre walk.

Wow, good scouting there Rocks.

this is the same loney that had 9 rbis at coors, right?

I'm reall sulking over missing a Pierre walk

It wasn't that exciting.

Have they forgotten the 9 rbi game he had against them last year?

20 Sept 28 2006 ...

Well if Kent is 8 for 16 against Francis in his career, it makes sense.

Maybe he was trying to shock him into making an out.

4 You just have to feel it.

That's a walk spree for JP.

24 Anybody know what the ideal sample size would be for Batter v. Pitcher?

It worked out for them.

23 Billingsley pitched in that game.

what's happening? the feed nor gameday is working for me.

That's too bad. Was that pitch really where Gameday shows it?

27 I don't know, Pujols probably doesn't have a lot of at bats against Odalis Perez but it seems every time he faced him, he hit a home run.

8 for 16 seems to indicate that Kent sees the ball really well against Francis.

30 Pop up.

17

I try not to thank until something good actually happens or you run the risk of jinxing it

IBB in the first? Interesting choice.

27

>>16

Just to throw it out there, the Philadelphia Daily News seems to think Ruben Amaro Jr is the favorite for the Astros GM. We should learn White's status either tonight or tomorrow.

27. a couple hundred??
vr, Xei

I was rushing so I can watch this game, and I spilled phenol on myself. I hope the Dodgers don't stink as much as I do right now.

ok, I'm sure you guys have talked about this in the past... I've been away from mlb's Gameday lately, but have they taken away the individual pitch stats? (like speed, break, etc.)? Or is the feed just not coming through for me?

39 - Man, if I had a nickel for every time I've done that... I wouldn't have any more nickels than I have now.

Not a lot of phenol in PR. There is, however, a lot of stinky work.

40 - Mine doesn't work, either. The pitches magically appear like acne.

Nice, Chad!!

I think the confidence with which you can make predictions only increases with sample size, therefore if data costs nothing to obtain (mlb.com) there is no optimal sample size.

Beautiful tailing in fastball to strike out Holliday

Dodger Thoughts (and other Toaster blogs) can operate on autopilot.

38 That's way too high, Kent only has 55 at bats against Glavine, he has 84 against Maddux.

Probably 30 is a pretty good sample.

TJ Simmers said this morning that McCourt should do everything he can to keep White, and that White should be the next GM

Russell gets a Coors Field single.

47 I think he's saying they can never have a large enough sample for batter vs. pitcher stats to be useful. I think that's correct, unless you have a really extreme result, which 8-16 is not.

Too bad, Andy.

47 No, a couple hundred is far better than 30, or even 84. Anyways, those 84 came over the span of a decade, in many different environments, and are probably not representative of Maddux's and Kent's current abilities.

Andy is swinging the Dodgers into a Lowell acquisition.

47. Statistically speaking 30 is a very weak sample size. Depends on what kind of confidence level you want. vr, Xei

stupid humidor

53 Isn't he just securing Nomar's already very secure hold of 3B for 2008? Would Ned really go after Lowell when he has Nomar?

53 -- But there's that Nomar guy still around. Where's he going to play?

56 I think so. Ned has never been shy about overloading a position.

57 Rover

This is ridiculous trying to watch the game, follow Gameday, watch stock options and moniter DT with my connection running slow.
Both pitchers look good although I haven't watched Bills much yet.

58 But what position has been overloaded with multiple veterans?

I don't think Ned'll chase the likes of Lowell. But I do think he might deal LaRoche. LaRoche has been unimpressive (to a careless eye, like Ned's, at the very least) and he's got back issues. And it's a power position where we need an upgrade. If Ned hangs on to Andy, I'll be most pleasantly surprised.

62 - unless the Dodgers sign A-Rod, I think La Roche gets one more year to win the job at third. After that, it's a wide open question.

61 Lugo became a veteran rover when he was acquired.

I wonder how hard Furcal rolls a bowling ball.

I'm not getting the pitch data again on gameday. It dawns on me that maybe only certain ballparks are rigged for it.

I am interested in Billingsley's start thus far.

Chad is pitching really well, it looks like the thin air of Colorado isn't affecting him at all, he's vintage Bills™

67 See something different?

66 All ballparks are rigged, although it hasn't been turned on in two of them (Baltimore, and maybe Pittsburgh? I'm not sure of the second). However, over the last week, it's been turned off periodically in the middle of games for no obvious reason. The Gameday Blog hasn't been updated in awhile, and offers no reason why the detailed information has been disappearing.

I don't have anymore worries about Billingsley losing his spot next year. Loaiza has been terrible; Wolf and Schmidt are question marks.

Penny/Lowe/Bills = 3 headed monster

It's rather funny that the Rockies have a couple of guys that backed up the Manning brothers in college. Some days, I wish Helton would have stuck to football, usually when the Dodgers play the Rockies.

63

I agree, plus Nomar's '07 #'s aren't knocking angelinos off there feet.

Pierre's little singles make me feel warm & fuzzy inside.

I think the Rockies should sign Jim Sorgi to play for them as well.

Time to "put some pressure on the defense," and "wreak havoc on the basepaths." That, or get thrown out trying.

Juan Pierre is a machine.
vr, Xei

Man, Francis is really leaving stuff up in the zone today. especially to Matt.

Pierre would have scored on that if Pierre was still playing center for the Rocks.

Ah, a rally brewing.

Has there been any articles where Logan White has talked about the GM position as a possible future? It just seems like he loves scouting young players and watching them develop too much to do anything else.

No open base for Kent now.

80. better than a Brewer rallying.
vr, Xei

I guess we'd need a ruling on Furcal and Pierre, but otherwise, Kent is the only PVL in today's lineup. Better come through.

81 He just interviewed for the open Houston GM job.

Even though that wasn't hit hard enough for a double play, Kent still just barely beat the throw.

Seems to me Wills would have scored on that situation.

Sheesh, could have been worse.

81 at the end of the press enterprise story jon linked to this morning, logan white had this to say about his interview for the GM position:

"Both of us feel like this is the beginning," White said. "We have a lot of unfinished business. We're living the dream together."

That seems to me that he'd be interested...

87
And then Wills would have lectured us about it too.

84 - I think the PVL index really kicks in around age 35 or so. Furcal and Pierre are both 29, so neither one counts.

89 thanks

Gah. The lineup I wanted is, thus far, frustrating me. Still, five baserunners in three innings is a good sign.

Are we at least making Francis burn up his arm a little? Or does he get stronger if you don't get to him early?

94 55 pitches thus far.

I was trying to look for individual #'s for Loney against Francis to no avail (Loney doesn't look comfortable againt Francis) I'm guessing he hasn't faced him all that much.

87 undoubtably

Here's the thing with the young players: They don't play as well as the veterans all the time. And they never will, unless you actually play them.

Nobody should be pulling any triggers if this lineup loses the game. It's my understanding that the Jacksonville team also lost a few games here and there.

89 But White said that about Loney. After the interview.

you know I meant 90, not 87

91 Has to be closer to 30, as Nomar, Martinez, Hillenbrand, and Hendrickson are all under 35.

96 1-5, 1K before today. Not much to go on.

Good thing Bills didn't touch it

man, that was a tailor made DP if there ever was one.

98 Agreed. And there are nice signs, as I said. Still, some runs would be good, too.

Neville Longbottom at the plate.

Don't trust anyone over 29.

the way Bills is pitching, all we need is 1 or 2 runs, seriously.

seems like a pretty fast game.
vr, Xei

So I guess this will be the pitcher's duel for lunch, to be followed by dessert - the football game that will break out in the nightcap.

This is still Coors Field. We need more than 1 or 2 runs.

94 Francis

Pitch 1-25 ops+ = 122
Pitch 26-50 ops+ = 74
Pitch 51-75 ops+ = 110
Pitch 76-100 ops+ = 109
Pitch 101+ ops+ = 46

Russell Martin = Neville Longbottom?

BP has finally updated their playoff probabilities.

Wild Card

PHIL: 31.7
SD: 27.6
AZ: 24.7
LA: 7.8

C'mon Andy, here's your chance to shine!

113
He means Francis.

45 pitches for Billingsley.

Aflac question is rubbing our collective nose in what rightfully was Piazza's MVP award. If you'd like to switch to Colonial Supplemental Insurance, to spite them, call: 1-800-325-4368.

101 - age isn't the only defining characteristic for PVL. Nomar and Hillenbrand have been in pennant races and played in post season games (even though they did these things while young) in Boston. Martinez also has World Series experience™, along with all that post season experience. As for Hendrickson, even though he hasn't been in the Bigs very long, he did have that time in the NBA, so he knows what it means to be a professional athlete.

LaRoche needs to not always start out 0-2.

113 Careful. You could get hit by lightning saying that even in question form.

Was that a punish-the-rookie strike call? Because it sure looked way outside to me?

114 Hey, at least we have a better chance of winning the Wild Card than the Mets!

I predict that in his third AB, LaRoche hits an outside breaking ball into the RCF gap.

120 Ditto Ethier.

119 There are so many, many times that I just wish we could send Hendrickson out there to use up some fouls.

It looks like we might need to rely on Billingsley for offense today too.

I feel really bad LaRoche -- talk about an up and down year for the kid.

Two of the three true outcomes this inning. Bills to provide the third?

113- This is even worse than when somebody tried to give him a soccer nickname.

Woo!

Messup by Martin.

This is still Coors Field. We need more than 1 or 2 runs.

I'm telling you I'm watching the game, Bills is on cruise control, all we need is 1 or 2 MAYBE 3 runs & this game is in the bag.

126 - that may be the funniest thing I've read on DT in about 2 months

Pitchers like to throw balls to Billingsley. I wonder why.

128 You think he might be pressing just a tad. "Go out there and hit .340 for a month, and we'll think about putting you in platoon, kid."

Guess it's up to our slugger Billingsley to work the count and get a hit.

Ruud Vanmartinrooij!

How did Martin not make it to third on that one?

121 130 I just saw comment 106 , then I saw the yahoo gameday thing, with Russell at-bat. I was confused.

OK, time to go buy some lunch. By the time I get back, I want some Dodger runs!!

Furcal is hitting from his better side....

139 If Kemp did that we'd be hearing all about it.

How many baserunners is that so far? ...With no runs to show for it.

111 Coors field is a pitchers park now. Thanks Mr. Humidor!

(i really wish i could do the trademark thingie right there)

136 should read "in a platoon." As opposed to in "Platoon," where, admittedly, his acting chops would not hold up.

130

one of the better ones was, an "entourage" nick

Feh. Now I have to go to an ALL-AFTERNOON meeting. I hope I return to an ecstatic DT forum. (76 pitches for Francis.)

Mr. Humidor is the second most popular site on the web called "Mr." behind only Mr. Skin.

ugh, thats not annoying.

of course the Rox can get lucky like Sullivan did & get a broken bat deuce.

The theme of the Dodgers offense in 2007: As goes our BA with RISP, so goes our offense.

146
I fear that Southern California's planning is going to be woefully behind after today.

Everywhere I go I will see housing sprawl and lots of traffic.

And I can blame it all on this game.

ugh, broken bat double. i cant stand that sullivan cat.

153 I solved sprawl and traffic yesterday. Excuse me if a put it on cruise control for a day game before I move on to global warming.

27 hopper up the middle

Crud.

Okay, no more jinxing this game!

Everywhere I go I will see housing sprawl and lots of traffic

Let's hope Southern California never comes to that.

155
I want affordable housing too!

152 - isn't that the story of most teams? If you can't get hits with runners on base, your chances of scoring runs seems to drop dramatically.

And before I start one of those debates, all I mean is solo HR=1 run; base hit runners on 2nd and 3rd=2 runs (assuming the guy on second isn't Kent)

159 I'm assuming there aren't any books that need re-shelving.

High Heat™ by Bills to strike out Helton

The Dodgers should start stalling and wait for it to become night time so that Jeff Francis will go back to being mediocre.

161
Or patrons to be Shush!-ed

161
Not my department. But I do have an earth-shattering meeting to attend at 2.

160
The teams with the highest batting averages with RISP happen to be the Yankees and the Angels.

They both score a lot.

164
This is KAOS. Vee don't "shush" people here.

I'm telling you man, Billingley is pitching masterful, dumb luck be damned©

167
You can't copyright a short phrase like that.

Very nice catch by Holliday, robbed Pierre of extra bases (unless the stumble out of the box would have stopped him at first)

165 - that's what I figured, BA w/RISP seems to be a rather important stat within the grand scheme of the game.

168 - I almost got lawyerly and said that, but I decided not to

why not? If Donald Trump and Pat Riley can do it why can't he?

171
They got trademarks, not copyrights.

168 I guess he could trademark it, but it's not very catchy.

Should've walked Holliday.

171 - they trademarked their phrases, copyright has to do with works of art (books, blogs, pictures, etc). You trademark a phrase, you copyright a story.

I wonder when you hit a humid ball really hard, if the bat gets a little wet.

And you only need to register a copyright if you feel you want to sue someone for punitive damages if someone steals it.

We are getting turned into Canadian bacon.

119 162 167 Did someone declare this "Marca Registrada Mayhem" day or something?

176 - yes, yes it does. Actually, I'd think it's like that scene in Good Morning Vietnam when they are playing stick ball with melons, the ball just explodes

177 - and since we are on the subject - you can only use ® if you have actually registered your trademark, you can use ™ whether you've registered the mark or not.

And "patent pending" doesn't mean much, other than you couldn't wait to get it into the market.

strike 'em out throw 'em out...

strike 'em out, throw 'em out, best double play in baseball

181
And in China, you can put just about any mark after your creation and it won't matter.

183
I like the unassisted DP by the right fielder.

185 Did that happen?

185 I absolutely loathe the DP by the right fielder at home plate...(sorry to dredge bad memories)

Bills all of a sudden can't find the strike zone.

186
I'm sure it's happened sometime. You would just need a right fielder to make a catch running toward the infield and the runner on first being Mark Sweeney.

If I were Grady I'd keep a close eye on Bills this upcoming inning, he threw WAY to many balls.

Check out the bottom of the 9th of this game:

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2005/B05080SFN2005.htm

190 He's at 90 pitches so he will be watched regardless.

191 - I'm surprised that it came on a line drive, I would think hit and run and a pop up

190 - If you were Grady there would be 1 out with Bases loaded with Bills up and you would let him hit into a DP then pull him immediately the next inning when someone pops up and jeff kent drops it and then bring in Roberto Hernandez.

yea Martin!

194 - so, you're saying that the Pedro Martinez incident should have been a warning to us that he'd be really bad with out the DH?

Martin for extra bases, another extra base hit and the boys in Thief River Falls may need to start stirring

Oh, Andy :(

if LaRoche gets out they walk Ethier to get out of the innings vs Billz. vr, Xei

Why do I feel like LaRoche is making us all look bad?

Looks like we will be seeing Nomar for awhile.

15 K's in 57 AB's for LaRoche now. Is it heresy to say that with Nomar hitting fairly well recently that we should put off on LaRoche's coming out party until next spring?

Oh Andy, you came and you left without hitting.
But we need you today, oh Andy...

LaRoche really seems to be pressing, but then, so do most of the guys.

And LaRoche makes me/himself look foolish.

Argh, Ethier. Not the best looking at bat I've seen from you, Dre.

Sigh.

I hate day time Jeff Francis

Ethier and LaRoche looked silly up there.
Have some plate discipline guys.
Take a walk.

201

If Nomar continues hitting like has in his last few games, than I am all for leaving Nomar in at the 3b spot

You know the other way to look at this game from Jeff Francis' point of view.

Great, a bunch of kids that I can school.

Just saying.

201--Yes.

Nomar hasnt played very good at all, and with the Dodgers almost out of it I want LaRoche to get as much time as possible.

201
Your choices are:
A) heresy
B) treason
C) apostasy
D) simony

Cory Sullivan is the new Jim Eisenreich

Will be sad if Chad's solid outing is wasted, but... hope springs eternal! Or at least until the final out is made.

211 simony doesn't sound so bad

ok, I need to grab lunch and a new printer cartridge, so I'll be back either for the end of this one or the start of the second game.

Here's hoping the boys make something happen

210 - Umm did you watch this past weekend?

Nice catch by Kemp to save a run.

Simony actually gets you into a lower circle of hell than heresy.

209- You think he's more afraid of LuGo and Nomar? Could be true; I bet it doesn't make a nickel's worth of difference.

159 - prediction: there will be much affordable housing in five years in the LA area. You just won't be able to get to it.

I have a feeling that Laroche will be lucky to play much anymore.

Nice call by Grady to walk Hollliday (sp) I guess Hendy will come in? we'll see if it works out though.

Probably Chad's last inning, no?

Also: Would you bench Furcal for the nightcap? I know he's a great fielder, but he just hasn't looked in sync at the plate. But then again, neither have LaRoche and Ethier. But then again, those two will not be in the lineup for the nightcap. But then again, I need to get back to work.

Sigh.

Totally would rather have Hendrickson face Helton then Billingsley.

Nomar had a very decent weekend, and we need someone to step up right now. I don't know if he could be the guy, but it seems worth riding.

I took so long to type that that Bills was removed before I finished. So I guess that answers my first question.

come on Hendy, give us a DP.

223 - Grady thinks so.

Hendrickson?

Two-run jack, comin' up.

I dont think you can judge a hot streak by 2 games.

Nomar's only had 19abs in all of September. He has 6 hits, 2bbs, 1 Hr.

LaRoche has been a pretty good player all year long. I think he deserves the shot to fail or succeed.

Nomar's proven he's a failure this year. No need in trying to think he's "still gonna put it together". Thats Brett Tomko-esque thinking.

pitch 2 is right over the plate on Gameday

Billingsley did get Helton on an easy grounder to second and a strikeout for his first two at-bats. I guess with this probably being Chad's last inning anyway you might as well play the match-ups as much as possible.

Coors field is a joke...

233
No, Hendrickson is a joke.

229 - Off by three bases and one RBI. Close enough for this game, though.

230 And LaRoche is 3-19 in September, what's your point?

229 I think that reverse jinx is why Helton hit a single instead of a home run.

Got out of that one painlessly enough. Now if we could just score some freakin' runs...

236--Well, that LaRoche has been good all year long, so its more likely he'll be better than Nomar, whose been horrible all year long.

You cant judge either guy by only 19abs.

Beautifully turned double play by Abreu there.

230

I completely understand the long term look at Nomar, but it seems like after he came back from the calf injury his timing has been better. I realize it is too small a sample size, but we don't have much time for finding out who is the best person for the job. I guess I could agree that Grady needs to choose someone and just ride it out for the sake of consistency and timing at the plate (for the player at least).

I am beginning to embrace the idea that signing Nomar may have cost us the post-season. I am not very popular when I voice that opinion in my office, but oh well.

239 - Well Nomars horrible year in the Majors is still better than LaRoches horrible debut.

236 His point is that over the entire season (a far more representative sample than just September), Laroche has been the better hitter.

239 Actually that is not quite true, LaRoche had a gigantic July in Vegas, otherwise he had a so-so year.

Now Nomar has not a lot at anytime but at this moment, I would think that they would be pretty equal. Not for next year and beyond but for right now.

234

You have Kemp playing WAY deep, that thing was a little bloop shot NOTHING ELSE.

According to the San Francisco Chronicle, Jeff Kent still wants to win a World Series, citing how close he and the Giants were in 2002.

Also, Brad Penny is apparently a bad teammate because he looked unhappy when Nomar hit that home run.

241 I just can't buy into that when you lose two of your starters before the All-Star Break.

... This is nice. Let's send up the Round Mound of Outs. Thanks, Grady.

247 How many teams make it through the season with all 5 of their starters not missing significant time?

245 Ummm, Todd Helton, left hand hitter in Coors Field, I don't think you can play too deep.

247

Fair enough...a contributing factor. I think I am mostly bitter about the 2 year deal that will hold things up again for next year.

... Ahh, so I see reverse psychology still works well.

Don't count out the Tomato yet!

I guess Saenz can still hit lefties.

For once in his life, Steiner doesn't get excited about a fly ball -- and it's a home run!

249 I understand that but for this team, the way it was constructed, it needed consistent starting pitching and that didn't happen.

Holy Tomato!

wow!........Olmedo's got back....

Tomato!!!

Coors taketh away, Coors giveth. Nice pop fly, Saenz!

Funny. I thought the ball sounded loud off Olmedo's bat. But Steiner was so uncharacteristically unexuberant that I didn't think it was going out.

wow, Saenz hit a four bagger

Hah! Saenz says, "Who said I was old!" And we say, "All of us Tomato, but we still love ya."

Ketchup to that one Holliday.

Seems like forever since the last time that happened.

I didn't even know Saenz could still hit a ball to the outfield.

Not putting Billingsley into the rotation early enough, and Juan Pierre playing every single game (not enough time for Kemp/Ethier) really killed the team.

I'm not so sure having Randy Wolf all year long would have made much of a difference. He's a pretty average pitcher. Losing Schmidt was a killer, but thinking he'd be 2002-esque Jason Schmidt was poor reasoning as well.

Next year, if Loaiza/Lowe stink it up, they cannot wait forever to go with the youngster. If McDonald/Kershaw are better, you bring them up.

256

Without taking into account the year he has had, would we have been better off offering a higher contract to Drew and not signing Nomar?

I was really rooting for Drew at the end of last year, thinking he might finally break out this season.

We cut the lead in half, theres still hope.

249 ones that do, like the White Sox two years ago, tend to do well, no?

264 Were you waiting the entire season to say that one?

I'd love to see a study--say, the overall results of teams who got 150+ starts from their top 5 guys...

267
Wolf would have been easily better than Tomko or Hendrickson.

What are the odds that Nomar/Hillenbrand come in to play 3B over Hu coming in to play SS?

I want to see Young swing the bat a lot today. Man it sounds good even when he fouls it off.

The Rockies didn't bail on an effective youngster but let him throw 119. I doubt that is bad.

Better better than horrible still doesnt make alot of difference though IMO.

Boy, Kemp nailed that one.

271 I can scratch it off the list of things to do before I die.

267. The loss of Guo and Schmidt killed us more than Billingsley being put into the rotation so late imho. I have nothing against sparing Billingsley's arm. Pierre playing every day,... yep! Betemit not playing much etc... vr, Xei

Bison Strength™!

272 You don't need a study, they do really, really well. If 5 guys make 150+ starts it means 2 very important things: they were all perfectly healthy, and they were good enough to not warrant a replacement. That means 5 guys each making 30+ starts, and pitching with an ERA under 5, which instantly makes them one of the best pitching teams in the league. Add in an average offense and bullpen, and you have a playoff team.

277
An article that was posted yesterday, basically said Wolf was singled to death and overall had a solid season, just unlucky.

I would think you'd put Hu in and let Nomar pinch hit in the 8th?

243 et al.

At this point in the season you just go with the hot hand and LaRoche has looked positively lost since he got called up. Plus, just because he was punishing AAA pitchers doesn't mean his major league numbers would have been any better than Nomar's this year. Of course his future is still bright, but for the sake of the pennant race I'm okay with him sitting on the bench and just letting it all sink in.

Oh man... that was close to tying it up.

:-(

What, no head first slide there Kent?

Sigh, he just missed on a couple of pitches too.

Well, at least we're one closer and into the bullpen. Hope ours can keep this close.

Now we're 0 for 372 with RISP in this game. Rough.

Our win expectancy is now sitting at 21%.
vr, Xei

Three teams in MLB have allowed fewer runs than the Dodgers have, this year; twenty teams have scored more runs. It would have been terrific if Hendrickson and Tomko had never thrown an inning, but the biggest problem this team had was offense.

291 As per predictions at the beginning of the season...

http://bp3.blogger.com/_Rk6GBqQuP1E/RvAa91KaWdI/AAAAAAAAAnc/wvHuOD4U6bA/s1600-h/DodgerHazinfGroupPic.JPG

I'd love to seem simulations ran that had Kemp/Gonzo/Ethier playing the primary OF spots, with only Pierre getting say 150 Abs.

Loney at 1b for the whole year.

How many more runs/wins would that have translated too? It might have not made a huge difference, but it just seems like it would have since the Player is at the top of the order every game making outs.

Who the heck was pitching. Hendricksen, I knew it by the hit and his poor slump. I'm sure Bills could have gone more, darn it.

294. Good point. I will get the simulator fired up. vr, Xei

285
How bright is a future for a 24 year old with a bulging disk?

{reminds self to introduce Molly to the joy of tinyurl next time} ;-)

Crud.

Did anyone even see where that ball was? I sure couldn't, and obviously Kemp couldn't either. That corner is like a Bermuda triangle.

Proctor looks wild. This might have been a good time to bring Beimel in given the lefties, no? Oh well.

The player that had the most games batting in the #3 for the Dodgers this year was Nomar with 65. 2nd was Russell with 42 and then Kemp with 20.

293 Who are Batman and Robin?

Is Proctor pitching as much now as he did with the Yankees?

298- introduce me!

298
Molly, www.tinyurl.com

www.tinyurl.com, Molly

Ah!

http://tinyurl.com/3yfxte

291 - that is the most sobering thing i've read in a while. considering colletti can't take a lot of credit for the pitching side of things, i'd say he deserves a huge amount of blame for putting together the offense he did. it's easy to slam pierre (because he's terrible), but colletti's the reason this team failed.

And the Padres have scored less runs but then they have given up less so they stil have a larger run differential.

The D-Backs we know about.

304 http://tinyurl.com/ or http://mozmonkey.com/tinyurl/

bring in Hernandez.
vr, Xei

Argh. Get close, give up a run. Drives me crazy.

306 Wow.

282 yeah, that's about what I figured--I'm also curious about just how often it's happened...this year's Cubs look like a perfect example of the point--all they lack is a league average offense.

285- At this point in the season you just go with the hot hand. . .

If you believe in hot hands, you do. If you think that's just another superstition, then you don't.

Anyone hear bagpipes?

303 yeah--maybe it's time to blame Proctor: though they say pitcher abuse is never the victim's fault....

I wonder what budget all the money for those costumes came out of? Perhaps they had a bake sale, or raised parking fees or something. vr, Xei

315 - Amazing Grace?

next DT t-shirt http://www.bustedtees.com/shirt/756/male

huge sigh of relief, come on offense!

prolly one of the biggest opposing at bats of the year right here. vr, Xei

Well that was a nervewracking half inning for only one run to score, but that's one run more than we'd like. Two innings to get at least two runs.

Escaped down 3-1. Win expectancy hovering at 14%. vr, Xei

321
And we relied on a Veteran to get us out of trouble.

Course, that Veteran was also the reason we were in trouble in the first place, but that is not here and it is also not there.

Whew........dodged that Holiday bullet. Have some faith boys! We're still in this thing! Anyone see the Cubs 9th inning last night? We got em right where we want em.

Doesn't Proctor's EDSP nickname, given to him when he was on the Yankees, basically answer the question in 303 ? I think he's pitching less now, actually.

And we have to face bandleader Tito Fuentes now, too.

(Yeah, yeah, I know the name difference, leave me alone.)

let's win it for Bob, and his important 2 O'Clock librarians meeting. vr, Xei

314 Normally you allow the guy with the better overall talent to work out of a slump, but you don't have that luxury at this point of the season. If this was a two or three game slump from LaRoche then it wouldn't be a big deal, but he has shown absolutely nothing at the big-league level this year apart from drawing some walks (which are nice and all, but when he actually swings the bat he looks terrible).

off night for Popeye the sailor.
vr, Xei

This Loney guy's no good - bench him!

Man, I need lunch, protein...

What's our "past performance not necessarily indicative of future performance"™ against Fuentes?

Who the heck is Robin in the hazing picture?

Fuentes = Goose Gossage apparently, to the Dodgers hitters at least.

I believe the Rockies are 3-5 with RISP today.

333 Is there a list of everybody and their costumes somewhere?

333
And Batman for that matter.

313 150+ can't happen very often, though I'm sure someone more capable could tell you just how often it happens. 140+ seems to happen more often (a few times a year), and those teams are generally always going to be playoff teams. The 2002 Dodgers are proof that playoffs don't necessary follow, but they had an incredibly bad offense, and they still won 92 games (Perez, Nomo, Ashby, Daal, and Ishii combined for 147 starts).

334 Aaargh...

Eh, I feel sick to my stomach now

Unfortunately, next inning we have to face Colorado's own version of Sammytime. Corpas has been ridiculous since the all-star break:

0.72 ERA, 0.72 WHIP, 22 K's, 25 IP and a perfect 14-14 in save chances

Sad.

Does anyone think it's exaggerating to say that if the Dodgers lose this one, they have to win the nightcap or their season will feel basically over? (I guess it depends on what the other teams do, too... but that's how it's gonna feel to me.)

332 Not good. Though I do remember one time that we came back from 2 down against him, but he's generally solid.

336
Diamond Leung's blog:

Chad Billingsley - Robin Hood
Jonathan Broxton - monk
Eric Hull - devilette
Jonathan Meloan - something Tarzan-like
Takashi Saito - Samurai
Eric Stults - pirate
Russell Martin - Nacho Libre
Tony Abreu - Native American
Chin-lung Hu - Prince of Persia?
Andy LaRoche - clown
James Loney - Popeye
Delwyn Young - Snow White
Andre Ethier - pink disco-wear
Matt Kemp - Let's just say his pecs and gluts were overly accentuated.

So no idea who Batman and Robin are.

342 I felt like at least 3 of 4 in Colorado was necessary, even if there's a clean sweep in Arizona.

334 Could Bat/Robin be new guys on the trainer's staff, maybe?

Anybody else notice that the second game is on KCAL 9 after the early game being on Prime Ticket? Doesn't each network have their own set of equipment and crew? How did they work that one out?

Furcal hurting and may not start the second game. Does Hu get the start? Or does the current SS, Valdez? Abreu figures to play 2B.

"Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. You kidding me? Playoffs?"

342 - i'd say that's an accurate assessment.

342 I think if we lose this one it's pretty much over.

341 We just need Beimel to give up 2 runs to eliminate the save situation. Then we work our magic.

349 LOL!

342

This is why I feel sick to my stomach

329 As opposed to Nomar, who doesn't draw walks.

326 Bronx Banter had a whole subcategory of Proctor humor; did you hear about the time Scotty crashed his son's little league game claiming he "needed work"?

Here are better images of Batman and Robin:

http://tinyurl.com/2gst4f
http://tinyurl.com/2ykzf6

357 Batman's mask hides his secret identity!!

Well, off to linear algebra. Bye bye playoff hopes.

Sept. 18 magic, we need you.

We need runners on base, come on Ethier get on base.

Batman kind of looks like it could be Houlton.

I have no idea who Robin is.

355 But Nomar does get hits once in a while. I'm far from a Nomar apologist, but for the short-term I feel like he needs to get most of the at-bats.

I will not lose hope in our playoff chances while this game is still going.

the shadows don't give me much confidence, either.

359 It's just as well, Gaussian Elimination is for more enjoyable than the playoffs.

Re: 294

I can't run a simulation, but runs created gives a decent estimate of the impact. Assuming Loney, Kemp & Ethier each had 500 ABs to this point, and that those ABs came at the expense of Pierre and Nomar, the Dodgers would have scored roughly 32 more runs.

That would likely translate into 82 wins, a 3-4 win impact and a wild card tie with the Padres.

Of course, it's likely Kemp's (and possibly Loney's) numbers would decline over 500 ABs. On the other hand, adding Betemit to the mix over the parade of unproductive 3B would help a great deal as well. Not to mention spending $10 million more efficiently than on JP.

All in all, it's hard to make the case that the Dodgers would be a guarantee for the playoffs if only the kids had played more, but easy to see how smarter GMing and managing could have increased the odds significantly. I suppose, however, that's often the case.

That would be harsh to make Houlton dress up considering he was with the team all year in 2005

Playing with the Baseball Musings lineup Analysis tool I came up with this totally unfair, overly simplistic theory of what the offense might have looked like if Kemp had played instead of Pierre, and Loney played instead of Nomar:

Furry
Pierre
Nomar
Kent
LuGo
Martin
Ethier
Betemit

4.76 runs per game (this is two tenths of a run better than the team has actually gotten)

Furry
Kemp
Loney
Kent
LuGo
Martin
Ethier
Betemit

5.349 runs per game. This would put the Dodgers behind only Philadelphia in runs scored in the NL, and fifth overall.

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py?

362 My guess on Robin is Eric Hull.

Naw, too short for Houlton.

Have the Rockies ever finished ahead of the Dodgers in the NL West?

if we go 9-4 the rest of the way (including the current game), we have a 41.6% chance of making the playoffs. 8-5 puts us at 13.4%, so I'd say we need to go a minimum of 9-4 the rest of the way to have a decent chance of getting in. 10-3 puts us at 75.7%. If we lose both of these games, it will take a miracle to get in. vr, Xei

Anyone notice these from Diamond Leung's blog?

- Andy LaRoche was struck near the left shoulder by a hard grounder during batting practice, but he'll remain in the lineup for the first game.

- The Dodger players didn't want to play the doubleheader, but the Rockies didn't want to give up an off day at home on Monday.

320
Hull is the devil girl.

I think Robin may be Moeller, which would explain why I have never seen him.

anything can still happen, but still...

Well, the only positive from this game is Billingsley threw another good one.

Well the Dodgers first game is merely a cherry on the cake of my bad day at work.

the only positive from this game is Billingsley threw another good one

It was good, but it wasn't Quality.

What was the LOB stat in this game? 7 left on in the first four innings, nine left on in the first seven.

It seems to me that's been one of the curses all year: lack of hitting with RISP.

374

I hear ya, but the bottom line is he has to perform & his work ethic is in question, not good signs if you ask me.

380 We should fire Eddie Murray again.

I'm thinking most of the better Rockies players wont want to sit out a game with David Wells on the mound.

Batman = Hammes?

370 Hull is the devilette.

I should quit...just grasping at straws.

There showing the Beyond the Glory (DH) Kennedy looks kind of funny in a uni. David Wells is do for a bad game & I'm thinking the city of Colorado is more than happy to oblige, Oh how I hope I'm wrong...

Zach Hammes? I didn't think he was anywhere near the big club except for having his name on the 40 man roster.

387 Don't give up all hope. The opposing pitcher is generally terrible so it could be a high scoring game. Could be, though now that I've said that it will probably be another 3-1 loss.

I'm looking thrue the MLBlogs, how in the world can you bleed pinstripes!! have you guys heard from Dianagramer?

I think it's time I come to terms with the fact that the Dodgers are not going to make the playoffs this year.

all those articles on James Loney jinxed him in game 1. Grady Little sure has poor skills at recognizing potential jinxes.
vr, Xei

Me too, Molly. Me too.

391. Sorry, most of us are still in denial. Give us to the end of the week please.
vr, Xei

I have been out of denial for about a week. Join us.

I'll say it with a heavy heart: Wait 'til next year :(

I'm not giving up until the day the Dodgers are officially swimming with the fishes on the Griddle.

9-3 gives us a decent shot at making the playoffs, so it's still too early to leave denial in my books. vr, Xei

2005 and DT taught me to not get my hopes up unrealistically and not to be too down about the state of things, either. I haven't left denial but it's a quiet denial.

397

hahaha, I was gonna say, reading threw all of Bob's post he's diffidently gone aquatic lately, LOL.

400
I don't think I've been diffident at all.

380 - Per ESPN, Dodgers rank #2 in BA w/RISP, behind ATL.

They rank #4 in OBP w/RISP, #11 in OPS w/RISP and dead last in SLG w/RISP.

So Dodgers do hit with RISP, just not with power in those scenarios (or any others).

I accepted the fact that the Dodgers were going to miss the playoffs after the series in San Fran. All I'm hoping for now is the kids to do well, even though I know Ned is probably going to ship LaRoche in the off-season.

Old Enemy Brian Lawrence DFA'd by the Mets today.

Losing to Washington during the heat of the pennant race is a hanging offense.

What Daniel said in 397.

Why does 395 sound like something from Invasion of the Body Snatchers...?

The Dodgers could be sleeping with the fishes as early as Saturday.

That's not likely, but it could happen.

I'm a bit disappointed and would love to make a special run at the postseason by sweeping the table clean, but my faith in Wells and Loaiza to take care of business in Arizona is further diminshed by losing a game we could have won today. I will be on board until the minute we aren't considered a possible playoff team, but it will take a Met and Arizona collapse for us to get there. I don't see Philly or SD folding enough for us to catch them, so I am pulling for the Mets and AZ to implode and we sneak by them into the WC. Still far-fetched though.

What will be better about next year :
1. We learned who our first baseman and right fielder will be and so did Ned and Grady. No more waiting for them until mid-June.
2. Our second year catcher is a gamer who will lead us for years to come. Our captain, our quarterback.
3. Bills won't be in the pen or penciled in with a question mark, he's the real deal and has arrived. Our #3 starter, future #1.
4. If Saito comes back, we have a good back-end of the bullpen again, established as one of MLB's best.
5. Abreu will make the team and will get lots of playing time all around the infield as heir apparent at second.
6. Nomar is a third baseman for one more year, that is his position now. His to lose due to injury of ineffectiveness. Then he is a former Dodger. Or our next hitting coach.
7. Veterans like Gonzo, Saenez, Seanez, Roberto, Ramon M, Big Bird, will be elsewhere and we will be much better with a more flexible and athletic bench.
8. Proctor will be our 7th inning guy for a whole year and won't have a dead arm when he puts on Dodger blue in April.
9. Kershaw and McDonald will be closer to helping.
10. Lowe in his contract year will be even more focused.
11. Beimel redeemed himself and can be offered more than a one year contract.

Things known for 2008 that were ignored in 2007.

see 407.

I don't see Philly or SD folding enough for us to catch them

Phillie almost collapsed yesterday so you never know, but man, they haven't lost in a few days, hopefully today is the day they lose.

407 - a healthy Furcal playing in a contract year should also help. Given the fact that the team is running a poll that has 57% of respondents saying they need to get a power hitting 3B this off season, I would suspect this front office to make a legit run at A-Rod.

I'm still worried about second base, we've basically have a first baseman/designated hitter playing second, who will be over 40 when camp breaks. His numbers are bound to decline, right?

409 They still have the easiest schedule.
I thought they'd fade with Hamels out and with that old bullpen. But they're still in there. I guess if you score 13 runs, you win most games.

Almost lost a big lead, but right on the tail of the Mets still.

406 During times like this, I retreat to my 10-year-old self and believe that if I just will it hard enough, the Dodgers will sweep the rest of the season and steam into the playoffs.

410 Kent has been mostly healthy and very productive. His limited range at second hasn't been too much of a factor, but having Abreu around will help get him a game or two off a week, plus late inning defensive help and perhaps some pinch runners at times.

He has one more good year left I think. I would have thought if a decline would occur, this would be the year we'd see it and we really haven't.

I like the mix of having him in the lineup with the kids. He leads by example. Get hit the helmet and play the next game! No crying in baseball boys, there is October baseball to be played!

We have a really good nucleus to build on for next year, and more experience. A-Rod would be nice too, but I'm not counting on that in the least. I'd rather have Johan Santana in blue than A-Rod. I'd take them both though.

407 and 408 are both good points.

Though #6 doesn't make me all that happy and I'm worried #7 will be replaced by more of the same, but we'll see. Either way I am optimistic about next season, though not quite ready to let go of this season yet.

Maybe I'm like Froderick Frankenstein's grandfather at the beginning of "Young Frankenstein," his skeleton hands unwilling to let go of the secret journal.

If in fact the Dodgers make a run at A-Rod, more power to 'em. I like LaRoche, but A-Rod is the best player in baseball -- even his decline years are likely to be very good. If the Dodgers have that guy, they don't need LaRoche.

A-Rod to SS, Furcal to CF, Pierre to the Giants. Everybody wins.

412 - I've been in 10-year-old mode for the past month.

I don't think I've ever seen this configuration before:

Pierre, CF
Abreu, 2B
Kemp, RF
Gonzo, LF
Nomar, 3B
Loney, 1B
Martinez, SS
Lieberthal, C
Wells, P

Pierre to the Giants

I don't wish that much bad on the Giants. I'd rather Pierre replaced Joe Morgan in the announcing booth.

I just really feel like 2007 was a wasted year. I feel like management really dropped the ball on what could have been a really good developmental year for these young Dodgers.

Sure the injuries to Kuo and Elbert were horrible but would Elbert really have been given a shot? Meloan tore up each lvl all year and has barely pitch 2 innings.

Argh (shakes fist)

417 Yikes... I'm guessing the Dodgers lose 13-3.

Yeah, I don't like the lineup, but the lineup I did like scored one run, so the capper on that should be that this Dodger nine scores 37 times.

Actually, that would make me very, very happy. That would be fun to see.

Christ, I thought Hu's callup meant Martinez would never see his name in the starting lineup again. No matter what happens, Grady always seems to find a way to shoot himself in the foot with the lineup.

It almost makes me want to root for the Rockies because a team managed this incompetently doesn't deserve to win.

422 - I didn't realize Clint Hurdle had such respect.

I don't think this was a wasted year at all.

To presume that the Dodgers would have been better if certain guys played more or less is just a theory.

Besides, the last time the Dodgers made the post-season three years in a row, will be the first time in their franchise history. But they have many times made the post-season three out of 4 or 5 years.

421 - I hope each and every one of them blasts the Rockies out of that absurd ballpark.

422 Rooting for the Rockies is a hanging offense.

https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/621277.html

Post #121.

I emailed Diamond Leung regarding Batman and Robin. His response:

Batman is Doug Jarrow (strength and conditioning coach) and Robin is Nick English (video coordinator).

Even after Furcal came out of the last game, Valdez played SS for the last few innings. Why is Hu on the roster?

422 Martinez has at least faced Redman before, he is 2 for 7.

I don't think not starting Hu should revoke Grady's managerial license.

Whew. I looked and looked and couldn't find him...but he was at the top. I thought Juan Pierre was given a game off. But no, he is in there.

407 "11. Beimel redeemed himself and can be offered more than a one year contract."

This I strongly disagree with. Jon has spent the last three years trying to get across the point that almost all middle relievers are fungible commodities. Their performance varies wildly from year to year, and the fact that Beimel has had two not-bad years in a row doesn't mean he will have another one next year. Keep him around, but strictly on a year-to-year basis. He's an easily replaceable part, if replacement becomes necessary. The easiest way for a GM to get himself in trouble is to give a mulityear deal in a case where it's not strictly necessary. (See Garciaparra, Nomar.)

Also, there really isn't need for the clause "if Saito comes back." He's coming back. Period. End of story. There's no reason in the world for him not to. He's already stated definitively that he'll be back, and he strikes me as less likely to go back on his word than J.D. Drew.

But the rest of what you said, I agree with for the most part. The fact that we're not going to make the playoffs this year isn't reason to panic or despair.

427 Because he had a good year, it wouldn't waste an option and it gives him a chance to be around a major league enviroment for a few weeks.

That actually was the practice for a lot of past September call ups, they usually were not players who were inserted into the lineup or pitched a lot, if they were that good or needed, they would have been up here before September.

But then again, I am old so I may not know what I'm talking about.

That lineup will be interesting, I'll grant you that.

a healthy Furcal playing in a contract year should also help. Given the fact that the team is running a poll that has 57% of respondents saying they need to get a power hitting 3B this off season, I would suspect this front office to make a legit run at A-Rod.

Maybe it's my optimistic view point, but if we do end up getting A-Rod I really feel we're gonna be a legit '08 team, with our stud starting pitching & our already proven bullpen I really feel we'll be very competitive in '08.

432 A lineup filled with 8 Mike Lieberthals should be able to scratch some hits against Redman.

423 I concede the point that Clint Hurdle may be equally incompetent; it's just that I haven't yet been exposed to his incompetence on a daily basis and therefore it will be a new, refreshing brand of incompetence as opposed to Little's.

Furcal's injured?!

From D. Leung's blog:

Rafael Furcal left the game due to lower back tightness. He was lifted for pinch hitter Olmedo Saenz in the seventh inning, and Saenz hit a home run. The injury does not appear series, as the Dodgers will try to get Furcal ready for the nightcap.

ToyCannon - Do I sense some skeptism on you boarding the Andy LaRoche for 3B train?

2008 or bust!

argh I'll be 25.

427 "Why is Hu on the roster?"

They had already purchased the East Asian costume for rookie hazing day, so it would have been a shame for it to go to waste.

412

that's what I did in '87 to no avail (my first year of truly bleeding Dodger blue) if anything it will at least be entertaining the rest of the way & that's all one can ask for at this point.

431 I understand that, and I think I understand why Martinez is starting, even if I disagree with that reason. But in the first game today, Grady replaced Furcal with another September callup, and that's where I have my problem. Unless Grady's plan was to use Valdez until he could use another PH (Sweeney), and then use Hu for the 9th and extra innings if needed, but I'll probably never know if that was the case.

436 - Yeah - I forgot to mention the update up top.

417

the lineup is so crazy, it might work, I doubt it, but it might.

439 They could've forced Kuo to wear it. =)

When it comes to A-Rod, I assume the Yankees or Tigers would offer more money than us and the fact that Boras is his agent just complicates the deal.

443 Actually, that lineup is so crazy that it should be permanently committed to St. Elmo's Institute for the Criminally Insane.

446
Great. Now I've got that "Man in Motion" song stuck in my head.

445 Ben Olson did not practice today, injury unknown at this time.

433 - I'm high on this team for 2008, but given the improvement of everyone in the division but the Giants, I think it is imperative that the Dodgers improve next year, and third base has been the sucking chest wound of this team. So it makes sense that 3B is the place to make a drastic move.

445 - When you have a chance to get the best player in the game, you get him, it really shouldn't matter who is agent is. If Colletti doesn't even make an offer because he's a Boras agent, then he should be fired. Heck, if he only makes a token offer, he should be fired.

407 We learned who our first baseman and right fielder will be and so did Ned and Grady.

I wish I were so confident, but if they really think Kemp is the man, why aren't they playing him now, when we need every win?

I could easily see them signing a bat for LF and having Kemp and Ethier share RF.

445 So 250 million for 8 years, is that okay?

448
It would be interesting to see Bethel-Thompson play.

I never thought I would say this, but I would prefer Cowan as the starter anyways.

450 - I think they're mostly trying to keep Luis happy rather than disappointed in Kemp or Ethier. They might not think as much of Ethier as they do of Kemp, but I don't see him and Kemp sharing playing time next year. They could trade Ethier, but I really doubt they platoon him again.

LaRoche this year reminds me of Kemp last year except instead of a homerun hitting rampage he went on a walking rampage. hopefully LaRoche 08 reflects Kemps 07 improvements.

449
I think we make an offer, but I could see Boras messing us around like he did with Brown and Beltre.

451
That would probably get it done and also would be insane.

Now that everybody seems to have accepted that the season is over, I think it's time we turn our attention to a different type of postseason play. Call it The Battle For Los Angeles. It will be a best-of-seven series. The reward for players on the winning team is you get to be on the Dodgers' 2008 opening day roster. If you're on the losing team, you have to re-tryout for your job.

Team A
manager: DeJon Watson

C Russell Martin
1B James Loney
2B Tony Abreu
3B Andy LaRoche
SS Chin-Lung Hu
LF Delwyn Young
CF Matt Kemp
RF Andre Ethier
SP Chad Billingsley
SP James McDonald
SP Clayton Kershaw
SP Eric Stults
SP D.J. Houlton
RP Jonathan Broxton
RP Jonathan Meloan
RP Eric Hull
DL Hong-Chih Kuo
DL Chin-Hui Tsao

TEAM B
manager: Grady Little

C Mike Lieberthal
1B Nomar Garciaparra
2B Jeff Kent
3B Shea Hillenbrand (does he still exist?)
SS Rafael Furcal
LF Luis Gonzalez
CF Juan Pierre
RF Wilson Valdez
SP Brad Penny
SP Derek Lowe
SP David Wells
SP Esteban Loaiza
SP Mark Hendrickson
RP Takashi Saito
RP Joe Beimel
RP Roberto Hernandez
RP Rudy Seanez
DL Randy Wolf
DL Jason Schmidt

453 I think they're mostly trying to keep Luis happy...

I agree, and I'm just wondering when our season's top priority shifted from reaching the playoffs to placating our veterans.

Sorry, I'm just growing more bitter as the season goes down the drain.

454 He has shown that he gets off to slow starts generally and also he needs some time to adjust to the next level, so I would think his pro model is much closer to Alex Gordon's start than Ryan Braun's start.

453
I agree. And I think that's been the main problem with Grady this season. He seems to bend over backwards for the veterans (e.g. keeping LuGo in a semi-full-time job, refusing for so long to move/bench Nomar, pinch-hitting with Saenz in every key situation, keeping Pierre's "streak" alive) at the expense of the greater good of the team.

Mets having their way with Joel Hanrahan. Shawn Green homer makes it 5-1 in the third.

What exactly is the big deal about Pierre's streak? He's still two seasons away from being half way to Ripken, and a season away from Gerhig. It's not like he's a Hall of Fame quality (like those two guys were) player who is needed day in and day out. He's a .250 slap hitter with speed, those guys don't get to play everyday.

462 I think it's just about keeping him happy. Because, you know, a happy Pierre is a productive Pierre. Or something.

Gah, I'm getting bitter-er by the hour.

462 He's not a .250 hitter with speed, he's a .290 hitter with speed.

If you don't like the guy, fine but at least give him credit what he does on the field.

465 - sorry, didn't look up his numbers, just estimated. And it's not that I don't like him, I think I've been fairly balanced on Pierre this year (I am one of the few fans of the stolen base around here), it's just that I don't understand the necessity of keeping his games played streak going

464 Pass the Angostura, willya?

462
I don't despise Pierre like many here. But I see only two explanations for Grady putting him in the lineup every single day.

1. Protecting his streak.
2. His grand importance to the team. (Significantly moreso than Kemp, Ethier, or Gonzalez.)

Take your pick. They're both ridiculous.

Brian Dohn reports that Olson did not practice because of a concussion.

I've decided to call Juan Pierre "Garbage Face" from now on.

Because I don't like him.

I dunno, except for Martinez there's nothing in that line-up that is unexpected or terrible at all. Martinez is only in because Furcal is hurting. He's in instead of Hu (and this is where some of us might be braver and start Hu instead) because it's the most important game of the season now and starting someone with almost zero experience was probably more of a risk than Little wanted to take. (Again, I'd take that risk myself, because I think Hu is gifted, but Martinez is a good fielder, too, at least.) Honestly, if our season comes to Martinez vs. Hu then there's something else we're missing, but that's just my opinion.

471 You're right about the unexpected part. But there are several things in that lineup that are terrible.

471 Do not let reasoned logic get in the way of a good joke -- or even a bad one!

I still don't understand why it's more important to have speed at the top of the lineup than at the bottom. The hitters for whom speed on the bases is most critical are the bad hitters who don't hit the ball very far, not the good hitters who do.

471 "Martinez is only in because Furcal is hurting. He's in instead of Hu (and this is where some of us might be braver and start Hu instead) because it's the most important game of the season now and starting someone with almost zero experience was probably more of a risk than Little wanted to take."

Hu doesn't have zero experience, exactly. In fact, he has more experience in hitting homers.
MLB Homers in 2007: Hu 1, Martinez 0.

Look, Hu not starting doesn't surprise me. But I take great exception to the notion that starting him would be a "risk." It is not a risk in any way, shape or form. I'd argue exactly the opposite. Starting Martinez is a risk. He's proven himself, sure -- he's proven himself to suck. He's a worse fielder than Hu and a worse hitter than Hu and even though I loved the original Ramon Martinez, his name is also not as cool as Hu's.

It's a much bigger risk to start the guy you know is terrible than the guy who might be terrible and might not.

474 - Shhh, If you ask questions like that you'll get them sent after you.

476 So that's why Van Morrison has been stalking me all day.

That's true, he does have a home run! Btw, I didn't say I thought it was so risky I wouldn't start him, because I would definitely consider it were I manager, but I'm just saying a manager in a pennant race may feel it's riskier than we outside it do. My other point was just that, I think if the Dodgers winning this game comes down to Hu's at short (sorry) well, they have other problems. Yes, I'd have Ethier in there again instead of Gonzo, too, though Nomar doesn't bug me. Lieberthal, well, we knew Martin was gonna get the second game off, but then again, given this is the most important game of the season so far, I'd consider starting him again and resting him another day this week. Other than that, this is a line-up that can get the job done. The previous game's line-up was the one I think we all wanted and they didn't. So who knows? Or, Hu knows? (Sorry, the last time, I swear.)

I think we may be underestimating Russell Martin's strength if we think he can be an effective player catching 18 innings at the end of the year while playing a game at altitude.

468 I think a third reason is more important than either of those. It is perceived that Pierre is the only player on the roster that can play a respectable CF. Certainly Kemp can play CF, and Ethier probably can, but neither are really the traditional CF type.

Kemp does play CF on occasion, usually in blowouts. Does he not play CF at other times because Grady wants to extend Pierre's streak, or because Grady simply does not think Kemp is a reliable CF? My guess is the latter.

474 - there's a few schools of thought on why speed at the top is important. My basic view is this:

1. speed increases the chances for extra base hits, this increases the chance of the heart of the line up coming up with RISP. Even among power hitters, guys are more likely to hit singles than homeruns (A-Rod has 170 hits this year, only 80 have gone for extra bases - 52 HRs, 28 doubles)

2. though we've debated it here, speed also means that hitters are likely to see a few more fastballs per at bat. There is also the question of when the hitter will see the few extra fastballs (counts where a runner is likely to go, when he wouldn't normally see them).

3. generally speaking, especially in the National League with the pitcher's spot, the bottom of the line up constitutes guys who are not good of hitters as the 3-4-5 hitters (by whatever measure you want to use), so fewer balls in play means fewer hits, meaning fewer runs.

Starting Hu over Lucille is riskier for Grittle in the sense that he opens himself to more MSM criticism if it fails. "Everyone knows" that starting the Veteran is the right thing to do, so you're not criticized for doing it even if it doesn't work out.

The Yankees are on their way to win their 66th game out their last 101. When I saw them in late June and early July, all the talk was on when was Joe getting fired and how will Steinbrenner react to not making the playoffs.

Right now, I have to think that they could be the last team anyone wants to face in the AL.

481 Good points, although on the specific team we have this year, reason #3 is expressly false.

Btw, if I was manager I'd also start Delwyn Young in center field today, because that's the crazy kind of thing I'd do! And y'all would love me for it, and DY would come through, and I'd probably still be fired, but at least I did it my way, darnit! Er, where was I?

484 - thus the phrase "generally speaking"

I'm coming to think of this years team as Rocky and am hoping next years team will be more like Rocky 2.

Oh yeah, I was looking at the blog for a soccer teammate of mine who tore his MCL and just had surgery and wrote in great detail about all the misery that entailed. I should not have read that after eating...

487 While too much of this year's team felt like Rocky V?

482 I can accept the notion that Grady is benching Hu because starting him would expose him to more criticism than starting Martinez does.

So basically what we have here, best-case scenario, is a manager willing to make moves that are riskier to his team's fortunes, as long as those moves are less risky to him personally.

Worst case scenario, he's just clueless.

481
1. Even among power hitters, guys are more likely to hit singles than homeruns

True, but power hitters' ratio of extra-base hits to singles is (by definition) greater than that of non-power hitters. Thus, speed on the bases is even more important for weak hitters than for strong.

2. I thought we dubunked the notion the other day that speed on the bases means significantly more fastballs. Plus, even if this were true, weaker hitters probably like fastballs too.

3. This is my point. Weaker hitters need speed on the bases more than do stronger hitters, because weaker hitters are less likely to hit for extra bases.

So basically what we have here, best-case scenario, is a manager willing to make moves that are riskier to his team's fortunes, as long as those moves are less risky to him personally

This could awake the sleeping Librarian Grouch.

Cleveland has won 57 of their last 101 games.
The Angels have won 59 of their last 101 games.
The Red Sox have won 55 of the their last 101 games.

I wouldn't mind seeing Russell Martin at 3rd base on very rear accasions

492
I will grouch no more forever.

Great name alert:
Rocky Cherry pitching for Baltimore.

492 I don't think even Bob could debate the notion that managers play CYA all the time, sometimes at the expense of their team.

495
You're allowed to grouch.

And to comment on St. Louis.

Things I will no longer do here at DT:
1) Be grouchy
2) Complain about the city of St. Louis
3) Say I hate peaches
4) Express my disdain for the TV show "Tell Me You Love Me."

493 That's still 9 games better than Cleveland, 7 better than the Angels and 11 games better than Boston.

499 What about dissing NorCal?

491 - point, counter point

1. fast runner on first scores on a double, slower runner on first stops at third. On a base hit (second most likely outcome) runner can go to third, no longer needing a hit (less probable than an out) to score him

2. there was not enough information for me to consider it debunked. I need to know how many pitches per at bat we're talking about, and what count fastballs are coming on.

3. if guys are getting out, which typically guys at the bottom of the order do more than guys at the heart of the order, the fast runners are stranded. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough on that.

499 But that's a big part of your charm!

Crazy like a fox!!

499
I don't think you ever did #4. At Screen Jam, sure, but not DT.

505
The last one was preemptive.

I still hate the cities of San Francisco AND San Diego.

I don't think Redman will pose much of a threat tonight, no matter the lineup.

if anything the crazy lineup is working, I just hope David Wells does his part...

Why can't Mark Redman pitch every game against us?

503
I have no charm.

Score one for Grady's guys.

Game is underway, by the way. And we're winning 3-0 with our bad lineup.

I think Nomar has an OPS over 1 against Redman in his career.

501 Don't get him started!

497 CYA?

I did tell you guys this Rockies' pitcher is terrible, did I not? Did anyone listen? Nooooooo! ;-)

515 I said a lineup filled with Mike Lieberthals could get some hits against him.

510 Now, c'mon. Your cat must think you do, and your putative girlfriend (I use the adjective because we've never actually seen her here) must think you do. They can't both be liars.

The City of San Francisco must have a Bob Timmerman Ban in effect or something.

516 I know, I was being sorta facetious - I think everyone here basically said Redman was terrible. Let's just hope Wells is less terrible. Woo hoo! Lofty Goals R Us.

Ben Sheets lasted just one inning for the Brewers and he only gave up one run so I assume he's hurt.

This is probably not good news for Brewers fans.

Hopefully I can recruit Bob, the king of quixotic grammatical quests, to join me in an armed revolutionary takeover of the offices of the Chicago Manual of Style, which earlier this month ruled that the correct plural form of the overrated statistic is "RBIs" and not "RBI."

If you have to drive around SF and have no idea where anything is, I can totally understand hating SF.

This is gonna be an 11-9 kind of game, I can feel it.

522 Or if you mistakenly walked down the side street in Civic Ctr in which I work, that would do it, too.

518
I was in San Francisco last summer. Most people were nice to me.

I just hold them in disdain.

Is there any sort of protocol for updating Game Day photos? They show Wells in a Dodger hat already, whereas I could swear Cesar Izturis, for example, is still a Blue Jay.

514 I probably can't say it here but you will find it somewhere on this page.
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/CYA

That was positively Pierre-ian. Too bad it was the other team.

Yup, I stand by my 523 .

That was not Abreu's best relay throw, I'm sure.

If Wells is planning to get 18 or so fly balls, like in his last start, this is probably the wrong place for it.

525
Is it because they closed FAO Schwartz?

Schwarz

501 Catching up to all the posts, I thought Bob may have been ripping on me?

Which inning will Houlton come in to save the day, ya think? 2nd? 3rd?

Yow. Get an out, Wells!

I blame Mike Lieberthal. Free Chad Moeller!

Well, we got the out before giving up all of a 3 run lead. Who said something about modest goals?

Dude, that fastball was 81mph.

521
I always use RBI as both singular and plural.

I really hate people who think the plural of "timeout" is "timesout".

I'm looking at you, Dan Fouts.

538 He wasn't throwing much faster when he beat the Padres.

The Mets led the Nats 7-4 going to the bottom of the 5th.

It's 8-7 Nats now.

Sheets left the game early in Houston with "left hamstring tightness."

Today brings up a dilemma that I'm not sure I have an answer to:

Your team is playing 2 games with the same team. Both teams have similar offenses and bullpens. Each team has 2 starters, a good one (Billingsley, Francis) and a bad one (Wells, Redman). The opposing team is starting their good pitcher in the first game, and their bad pitcher in the second game. You have two options:
1. Start your good pitcher alongside their good pitcher and your bad pitcher alongside their bad pitcher.
2. Start your bad pitcher alongside their good pitcher and your good pitcher alongside their bad pitcher.

In option one, you have a better chance of winning one game, but you also have a better chance of losing both games. In option two, you have a better chance at winning just one game.

What do you do in most situations? In the Dodgers' current situation?

462 Pierre pinch ran as his only appearance in the 9th inning for Florida against Washington on June 3, 2005. As I understand it, that game halted his consecutive games streak (someone please correct me if this is wrong), per Rule 10.23(c) of the MLB rule book:

"(c) CONSECUTIVE-GAME PLAYING STREAK. A consecutive-game playing streak shall be extended if a player plays one half-inning on defense or if the player completes a time at bat by reaching base or being put out. A pinch-running appearance only shall not extend the streak. If a player is ejected from a game by an umpire before such player can comply with the requirements of this Rule 10.23(c), such player's streak shall continue."

JP has played in every game since then, so his streak stands at 423 games including both games today, even though looking at his games played would seem to have his streak at 812.

540

I hear you BHSportsguy but this is Colorados coors field, although I do think Wells has less suckitude then Redman.

This game is gonna be long and high scoring and painful and I'm not sure I can take it.

Do people still want that rule changed so a bounce double lets runners from first score?

Maybe Wells wants to get out of there because he is going to pitch on Saturday.

Bring in Meloan!

This is the David Wells we all knew would show up eventually.

Nice bee bee throw from Kemp.

Nationals now 8-7 over the Mets.

Cause you can only be last in the league in runs for so long I guess.

Kemp had him Dead. To. Right.

544 Now the Colorado broadcast just showed a graphic stating tonight is Pierre's 422nd straight game, not 423rd. To the crime lab!

550 - Yeh all he needed was 3 days rest.

552 If the Nats win today, they would have a pretty good shot at a sweep with Pelfrey on the mound for the Mets.

DJ Houlton in the Pen Alert.

Bob Carpenter tells me that someone must have stolen the humidor in Colo.

Free Houlton for tonights debacle!

543 In most situations, I'd start the good pitcher against the bad one and vice versa. In the Dodgers' current situation, where they needed to win every single game, I'd have done it the same way they did.

Of course, all this presumes that you are in fact the one who gets to choose; your opponent could easily pull a bait-and-switch.

548

I can't believe Grady is going with him on 3 days rest, it's just nuts! HE'S 44 YEARS OLD GRADY!! JEEZ!

Hey 23 strikes and 9 balls, that's a fine ratio!

(Looking on the bright side)

561 But its not like he throws hard anyway and though its debatable, it would be him or Stults or maybe Houlton so none of them are pitching more than 5-6 anyway.

544 ,554 I stand by my assertion that Pierre's consecutive games played streak is now at 423 games, including tonight's game.

2005: final 110 games for FLA
2006: all 162 games for CHC
2007: all 151 games for LA

110 + 162 + 151 = 423

David Wells' ERA with the Dodgers is now 4.88 after the first inning.

i didnt know vinny that thinks tulo is a fine young shortstop.

Those stills at least prove Wells is consistent.

Juan Pierre's consecutive game streak is 423 by my count.

110 games in 2005
162 games in 2006
151 games in 2007

That's why we need Hu out there.

Part of me is rooting for Philly only because its fun to see the Mets Blogs crash.

Getting back to an earlier point Eric Enders made, managers have been employing CYA tactics since the 1850s.

So either Grady trots out JP every night for a streak that's not even 3 years old or Grady thinks JP is the only outfielder worth playing every night?

How much is this particular David Wells start costing the Dodgers in terms of money?

573 Same as the ones where he won the game.

572 I still think it's because Grady thinks Pierre is the only guy capable of playing a reliable CF. And he gets more money than Kemp.

Jim Reynolds is giving Wells the veteran strike zone...

573 I haven't seen a definitive number, but his Dodger contract is thought to almost mirror the Padres bonus structure, which called for roughly $176,471 for each start 11 through 27 ($3m total for those 17 starts).

Tonight is David Wells' 27th start of the season, so I'm unsure if he gets any bonus for future starts this season.

Strike 'em out throw 'em, PVL style*™*

Lieberthal shows he can still do the strike em' out-throw 'em out DP, too, though it helps when the runner is very far behind.

Okay after this half inning I have to head home, so I'll probably miss at least 6 runs being scored...

The good ol' Swunt.

If a swunt = swinging bunt, I probably shouldn't shorthand sacrifice hit.

The Bison roams!

Red Sox are using Gagne in the 8th to try and protect a 2-1 lead over Toronto.

Matt just keeps hitting the ball all over the yard.

Bison Strength™!

man, it takes the Bison at least 3 to 6 steps to fully stop after going full charge.

Nomar---pitiful.

Nomar ugh..

PVL Strength Uppercut©

thats the kind of Ab that makes me hate a player. i dont mind swinging on the first pitch if you get the pitch you are looking for (like Kemp this inning0. But, with a runner on 3rd, to swing at a pitch you cannot do anything with is just a waste. There was no way Nomar would do anything witht hat other than pop up or hit a grounder to third or a foul ball. Just a stupid approach to an AB.

bases juiced for RM2®

I love how a player is judged by at bat.

BTW - Here is what happened to one of richest rookies in baseball history.

http://tinyurl.com/2rfb7x

So whichever manager pulls their starter from the game first wins?

More LOB.

OPS AccuTracker©:

Kemp: .912 season, .846 career
Loney: .893 season, .895 career

Kemp is now hitting .341 in 2007, and slugging over .500 career (.502).

Remember, bhsportsguy is the grouchy guy today.

Not me.

I want that to be made clear.

593

They went easy on him (see Kemp) full drag would have been better if you ask me.

593 yes because that is the first time nomar has done that.

Gagne retired Johnson and Rios, but walked Thomas.

593

Are you talking about me criticizing Nomar? If so, it wasnt just this one AB. It's almost every single plate appearance that bugs me. He just swings at the first pitch just to do so, and in a spot like that, he doesnt wait for a pitch that can get the run home.

597 Yeah, and I am not sure why.

597 - I aspire to be grouchy one day. Does that count?

And Hill singled pinch runner Thigpen to second and it's New Brunswick vs. Quebec now in Ontario as Gagne faces Stairs.

The Mound on the mound appears to be giving up some very long outs.

Pierre... Sometimes it's almost as if he decides to look goofy just for DTers amusement.

603 Are you worried about Shields or will he put it together by the playoffs?

(If this doesn't get a grouchy response, nothing will.)

602
You are worried because UCLA might have to start a quarterback who has three last names on Saturday.

Karl Dorrell would make alot of people grouchy.

593 "I love how a player is judged by at bat."

You've been bending backward pretty far in your defenses of mgmt lately. I think you know as well as I do that nobody's judging anybody by one at-bat -- we've had at least a full season's worth of time to observe most of these guys, and we're judging them by what they've shown they can do over a period of time.

So, I just started watching the game on a delay. I gather that someone is about to hit a three-run homer and then Wells will attempt to give it back. I do find it amusing that the Rockies announcers are expressing surprise and indignation that (a) Nomar sat out the first game, and (b) Hillenbrand is sitting this one out.

Keeping with the Peanuts theme.
There is a Thigpen playing in Toronto and now Schroder is in to pitch for Washington with 2 on, 2 outs and the soon to be suspended Marlon Anderson at the plate.

Maybe Bob and bh are suffering from Dorrellitis.

606

he actually does that all the time, he runs the ball very bad (like his limping) takes bat routs at times, even when he makes a good play he looks bad, he's been hitting the ball really well lately though, so he has that going for him.

New Brunswick walks. Bases loaded now in Ontario for a guy from Glendale.

Wow, I was late on that one.

No magic for Marlon tonight. He Ks.

610 Ydah, I know, he does that and I guess I should just let people vent because that is partly why DT exists.

But in Nomar's defense, its not like he is going to change so I think in some ways you have to pretty expect him to do that and hope that it is one of the times it works out.

But again, sometimes all I am doing is presenting an opposing point of view, lately it would be more management sided because of the discussions but I am not always looking for that side of the argument.

Oh, and Eric Gagne is about to have all of the New England say Game Over for his time in Boston.

614 This is same guy who did not blow a save in a year and a half.

And the guy from Glendale walks to force in the tying run.

Hector Luna is due up.

607 - no, because I know better. The Angels are done in the first round. In fact, they might get swept if, as I suspect, they end up playing Boston in the first round.

* Scot Shields has nothing (at best a coin toss on any given day)
* Chris Bootcheck is essentially random but his 4.50-ish ERA is an accurate reflection of his abilities.
* Justin Speier is fighting various ailments.
* Dustin Moseley falls into the same category as Bootcheck with a little wider repertoire.
* K-Rod has a 4.18 ERA in the second half, the first time in his career he's been this bad.

When your most reliable reliever starts to look like Darren Oliver, something is very wrong. Jered Weaver is shaping up as the team's most reliable pitcher. Kelvim Escobar established that he needs a start or two off (he's pitching injured with knee tendinitis), John Lackey's showing some significant wear, and the rest of the rotation is pretty ragtag.

So, yeah, cranky.

Don't look know but Boomer has pitched 2 scoreless innings, yay.

Since I was quick to point out Wells' Dodger ERA after the 1st inning (4.88), it's only fair that I mention he has lowered it again to 4.33 with his very economical last few frames.

620 Any of this a fallout from not having Bud Black?

Gagne might as well just stay in Canada.

620 - er, sorry, grouchy. Have to use the approved adjectives.

Technically, all of our venting is not in keeping with Jon's mission statement that appears in the upper right.

Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.

623 - you know, there's been a lot of speculation in that direction. I do find it interesting that Santana appears to have gotten well by disappearing for a while to Salt Lake.

The noose tightens in Massachusetts.

Fingers crossed, but Wells seems to have thrown very few pitches per inning after the first.

625 - true.

A.J. Burnett goes out for the 9th with 112 pitches to his credit.

oh man, it's gonna be cool watching Matt Kemp full season in '08.

631 - assuming the Dodgers don't re-up Gonzo. The overuse of veterans has been Ned's most prominent Achilles' heel.

I think Eric Enders or Eric Stephan, are the ones that know Matt Kemps full season PECOTA (?) projections? or something.

Another awesome at bat for Nomaahhhhh.

632 Extremely doubtful. Gonzalez has served his purpose.

well if the Dodgers don't make it I'm rooting for the Halos, I just can't get my self to root for any NL West team if it's not the Dodgers.

627 The last time the Yankees were closer than 3 games behind the Red Sox was on April 20th. By May 30th, they trailed by 14.5 games.

Julio Lugo makes it 4-3.

636 - Go Red Sox!

More material here that makes me think the gauranteed contract has to go. The NFL is rid of it, for practical purposes.
The top handful of payroll clubs, 5 and more, are right now developing quite a few young pitchers. I'd loves to wee the market contract a bit for starters.
I know this is probably wishful thinking--but things are just so irrational. This couldn't exist in a free market. But in an egotistical clique of rich hobbiests, anything goes.

633 I don't have a subscription to Baseball prospectus, but a quick Google search shows PECOTA predicted a .853 OPS for Kemp this year.

I am in the white pages though.

Who didn't see that coming?

"Oh, baby, that one's gonna burn on re-entry!"

  — Charlie Steiner.

There's the David Wells we all know and dislike.

Glad to know Wells will be pitching on 3 day rest.....

I think the fact that the Red Sox will clinch a playoff spot sometime in the next week won't matter if they have a 1978 collapse.

Wow, we are going to raise the white flag already?

Wow, we are going to raise the white flag already?

Is Hernandez warming up or something?

.334BA, 33HR, 124RBI, 108R, 11SB

Matt Kemp could have Matt Holliday's numbers next year. Provided he gets to, you know, play every day.

648
Yep.

639

they were the flavor of the week back in '04, I totally can't root for the east coast "evil empire" sorry Curtis Lowe

OPS AccuTracker©:

Kemp: .916 season, .848 career
Loney: .907 season, .906 career

Too bad the ball doesn't carry at night.

LONEY BOMB!!!

Loney Power™ & ®

Holy smokes, Loney!

Thank you, Matt Herges.

And thank you, JAMES LONEY.

So far it's been 2 kids and an old man.

I saw that one coming too.

651 - Search your feelings Blue, Come to the east side...

Crazy eyes ain't raising no white flag.

I find it hard to accept Hernandez is a preferred option to Hull, Meloan, et al.

The Phillies have tied the Cardinals 3-3 despite just two hits.

The Cardinals have walked seven.

Phillies tie the game up in St Louis. 3-3 in the sixth.

649
Hard to get 124 RBIs when the guys in front of you Get On Base An Awful Lot, by which I mean don't get on base an awful lot.

Man, I needed that! LONEY!

Martinez's hits (25) are closing the gap on his RBI (27)!

I thought that might work. Typing is hard work for me and I just typed in a nasty note about Lucille II. It worked and I had to erase it.

651 - I root -- weakly, these days -- for the Red Sox, though post-2004 they've become Evil Empire Lite.

666 For a minu8te that made me think Ramon had an RBI. Hence the 666.

Kemp!! * 2.

Thing is, if the Dodgers had re-signed Drew, sure, we'd have no Nomar. Loney all year! However, that's one less spot available for Kemp to break into..

DBacks score 4 in the first against the Giants.

Pirates put up a marker in the first at San Diego.

New slugger on the market. 26 year old Cuban Alexei Ramirez, who led the league in home runs, is in the Dominican applying for citizenship (his wife is Dominican, which apparently made everything much easier than usual). He plays SS/2B/CF. He seems like a decent bet as a Betemit type utility player.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3026151

Anyone know anything else about him?

670 We also probably wouldn't have Pierre.

The Pirates now have two markers.

I think if boxscores show the RBI count for those with RBI in a game [i.e. Kemp (39) in tonight's game], they should also show the running count for runs scored.

All up to Old Friend Lo Duca in DC.

9-7 Nationals, Mets down to their last out.

Shawn Green (3-3 tonight) singles, Heart and Soul up v. Chad Cordero.

LoDuca bloop single. Jeff Conine with a chance to win it.

Serious PVL on the Mets.

And now it's up to just Plain Old Guy Conine in DC.

660 . Gen3Blue
"Crazy eyes ain't raising no white flag."

I've always enjoyed the look on Loney's face after a big hit, or such, with the Dodgers. Kind of nervous/concerned, like "have I called all this attention to myself?!" It's so fantastic still having Loney as one of ours.

676 But I had details!

Conine single. 9-8 now, runners at the corners.

Gotay up.

Fear Ruben Gotay!

That was a nice looking swing by Abreu right there.

Why do we care so much about the Mets game...?

Abreu...yipppeeee...

Abreu? Woot!

the Dodgers do a great job of playing with our emotions I'll tell you that, anybody know the score for Phillie?

Loney's HR gives him 20 RBI in September, with 11 games left plus the rest of this game.

The top Sept (&Oct) RBI months in LA Dodger history (the media guide doesn't include top Brooklyn months):

Mike Marshall (1985): 37
Kal Daniels (1990): 31
Darryl Strawberry (1991): 28
Mike Piazza (1993): 27
Mike Piazza (1997): 27

I enjoyed Abreu's big hit there. Just as I've enjoyed so many moments of 2007.

But today, for the first time all season, I feel like I'm watching the Dodgers out of habit. Sigh.

Now c'mon, Little, put a good pitcher in there to replace Wells.

"Tony Abreu, who most of you have never heard of, 3 RBIs," says the Rockies' announcer, disparagingly. Feh! says Abreu to you, Rockies Announcer, who most of us have never heard of.

688 - word.

New York, a tale of two teams right now. In big print will be the Yankees charging to the top, on back page will be stories of the Mets' collapse.

686
I just checked, there all tide up 3-3 Phills @ Cards.

Phillies tied 3-3 in the seventh.

The Mets sort of matter because the way things are going, they may be the NL wildcard if the Phillies pass them.

Maybe none of it matters.

Enjoy the moment?

I actually would be perfectly happy if the Phils one the NL East and the Mets didn't make the playoffs at all. Especially if the Dodgers did. But even if they didn't.

--
I definitely heard a Rule #1 violation from the Bison on that K.

nice to see Houlton come out of his cave.

680 As an old D's fan I find I live for the home grown players.

695 Won, not "one." Man, it's been a really long day, and I still have work to do.

690 Yeah, I took umbrage with that comment by Drew Goodman, the Rockies' play by play guy. His main attribute is that he's not George Frazier.

I definitely heard a Rule #1 violation from the Bison on that K.

KCAL makes it so obvious too, when they put it on mute, it's funny.

Darn its only the sixth and we don't have many pitchers I trust.

I bet Houlton's fastball looks like Broxton's after following Wells.

695

Bison has a lot of those on his K's and popups. He knows he had a few pitches to drive that AB, and even then, should have walked on the previous pitch.

(Mets lose.)

701 Really? I think we have quite a few we can use that I trust just fine. There's only one I really don't trust, and hope not to see.

Abreu doesn't have much power, but he has hit a lot of extra base hits this year. To illustrate:

Abreu 44
Ethier 43
Gonzo 39
Furcal 33
Pierre 29
Nomar 23

Now guess which one has the fewest ABs this year (hint: it's Abreu).

That's at least the second or third hit that Hu probably would have played into an out.

No don't rush Ramon this game is not important...

I can think of one person Hu could have made that play...

Way to take your time on that one Lucille II

RM2™ kind of casually made that play, a little hustle & he gets him.

Martinez played that perfectly in every way except for not hurrying at all. Time to wake up there Lucille II.

706 - if "power" is a euphemism for "hitting homeruns", then yes, Abreu lacks power, as do the others on that list. However, if power means "hitting hard line drives that allow the batter to take extra bases" then I'd say he's got pretty good power.

Heh. I should have done the equivalent of eating the ball there, since I didn't realize five of you were syaing the same thing before me.

Has Houlton faced this power hitting rook in AAA? They must have...

688 - But today, for the first time all season, I feel like I'm watching the Dodgers out of habit. Sigh.

I've felt that way since August, maybe even the beginning of the season. A lot harder to get to the Dodger games when you have season tickets to That Other Team.

"Stay fair!" says the not-at-all-homer-ish Rockies' announcer. Sheesh.

706 I'm a fan of Abreu as well, but where do you find 44 extra base hits ?

Incredibly uninformed on young Dodgers Rockie TV announcer, "Tony Abreu, who most of you have never heard of, three RBIs tonight."

nice hustle by dumbo gonzo.

{Exhale}

717 {Introduces Willie to my 690 }

;-)

Yeah, these announcers really grate on my nerves quickly. Man, I wish I was listening to Vin right now.

716 Combine minor and major league numbers

713 - I checked minorleaguesplits.com but couldn't find it. Swear to God they used to have that data.

706 disregard, I see 29 (for the 51's) and 15 now here in LA...

Is it proper form to say "former Red Sock"? Sounds weird, but so does former "Red Sox"...

Boy an insurance run or 4 sure would make me feel better.

I agree with the Rockies' announcer on that one, that was a good piece of hitting from Nomar since that was a pretty decent pitch. C'mon Loney!

724
This question has no good answer. Great minds have argued over it for year.

Smarter minds say "former Boston player."

724 - concur. "Former Dodger", "former Met", "former Cardinal", etc. I guess you could always opt for the plural.

In comment 601 I didn't mention DJ Houlton for fear of jinxing him, but I find him a much more appealing option than many of the old codgers we have used as starters and relievers. And If I got to know Stults and Hull I wouldn't be surprised if I felt the same. A small market team would have had to play most of our prospects and these three pitchers---how much worse would their record be?

Does Loney wear contacts? (Just looking for an explanation of the crazy eyes) If so, could anyone imagine what would happen if he got laser surgery?

724 The proper term is "former long-suffering cute little fuzzybear." Also applies to a former member of the Cubs.

I hate lovable losers. Especially when they win, but expect you to root for them anyway.

Are the Giants planning to have each pitcher throw one inning tonight?

728 - welcome to my world.

Is there a special button you can press on the MLB media player that will send electric shocks to the announcers?

Sorry to be sarcastic. I just finished a four and a half hour drive.

OPS AccuTracker™:

Kemp: .913 season, .846 career
Loney: .904 season, .903 career

Another Rockie announcer nugget: "Jayson Werth was one of their guys...that was going to be in RF forever!"

Isn't it that anytime you use a team name that's plural as an adjective it becomes singular? Dodger hat, former Dodger great, Dodger win, etc.

Too bad Ianetta isn't playing 1st, then Vin would have even more fun with his multisyllabic infield.

726 I'll try to let go of it, since earlier I was also obsessing over whether it was right to spell a singular player on the Rockies as "Rockie", which is what FSN did.

The Brewers could be looking at a yellow jersey tonight.

But there's still the matter of the Reds bullpen trying to hold the lead.

730 - a friend of mine made up a couple of those motivational posters for different baseball teams a few years ago. For the Red Sox, the line was something like:

The distance between lovable loser and annoying winner is approximately four games.

I couldn't bring myself to ever root for the Red Sox - even before they won. But then, I liked watching the Yankees torment them.

729 Loney wears contacts when he plays, glasses otherwise. I believe I actually learned that in one of the Loney articles from this morning.

Proctor? Really? Again? Why?

Iron Man needs not to rest!

Russell's in!

EDSP is now TaDSP.

Twice A Day Scott Proctor

741

seriously, these 2 games are messing with Gradys dome.

738
Former Colorado player.

What happened to Beimel?

If this game were to go to extra innings, when does Chad Moeller come in to catch?

Would help if this ump wasn't squeezing him.

Man Houlton is so strong and has thrown so few innings lately. Is it good to have a ----never mind later.

746

It's crazy though cause he's throwing the ball harder 95MPH.

That was indeed a strike, but the other pitch that was a strike was called a ball. So now the ump's peeved everyone.

Hooray for Houlton!

4-2 Padres, and they're still threatening in the bottom of the 2nd.

748 He pitched the first game too. But we might still see him. I wouldn't mind seeing Hull, but I guess they're not that confident in him yet for whatever reason.

Jonathan Meloan is diffidently on Gradys doghouse, or maybe he's trying to protect Meloan, I don't know.

Are the Phillies, Padres, or Diamondbacks ever going to lose again?

This ump sucks.

Don't mess with those crazy eyes. They are appealing in a crazy way James. Take it as a huge compliment.

The Padres won't lose as long as they get to play the Pirates at home.

Yellow Alert for Holliday

I wonder if Holliday would mind if the Dodger Stadium DJ played Madonnas '83 hit song Holiday.

757 Yeah, Meloan hasn't pitched since September 5. If he doesn't pitch tonight, that's 12 straight games without an appearance. My guess is he doesn't pitch unless one of these criteria are met:

1) Dodgers are eliminated
2) Game run difference is 10 or more

757 I think the word you're looking for is definitely. If Meloan were diffidently on Grady's doghouse, he would be standing timidly on Grady's doghouse, and probably wouldn't be making Grady's dog particularly happy.

757 If they liked Hull and Meloan that much they would have used them earlier this year.

They didn't so it should not be surprising that they are not pitching now.

757 If they liked Hull and Meloan that much they would have used them earlier this year.

They didn't so it should not be surprising that they are not pitching now.

767 Sorry for the double post, double-clicked.

763 It would be more edgy if they played this:

http://tinyurl.com/2jnw4e

766 There is a happy medium in between liking Meloan and not using him in 12 games.

I don't think their lack of usage right now should be taken as an assumption about where they'll be next year, though. Doesn't mean the Dodgers don't like their potential. Again, it's about nervous managers get during a pennant race. And they should have used them more earlier in the season so they'd have less butterflies about pitching right now. At this point it's almost too late to use them in anything other than in wide leads or deficits. Or extra innings. All I'd hope is that Hull and Meloan sit ahead of Hernandez on the depth chart, but I'm not even sure of that. That's the one part that mystifies me.

769

true, but I'd go with Madonnas rosier song better, just to spite him.

Iron Man!

He can't be too tired.

YAY! RUSSELL MARTIN EDGES CLOSER #18.

Good-bye

that guy Martin is pretty decent.

Golden. God.

Bringing Martin back in was obviously a genius move, though!

2 more golden Zeus™

When Martin blows on his glove, It looks serious.

So this is Martin's 137th game caught this year, leaving him 9 short of Piazza's team record (1996) with 11 games to play. I'm guessing that record will belong to Martin by next weekend.

771 Better phrased than my post but it is what I was trying to say.

You want to ask a prospect about playing time, go call Brandon Wood.

So is Martin golden or ferrous? Or is he some sort of mythical gold-iron alloy?

Maddux finally walked someone!

Martin is a triple away from the cycle no less.

I think the closest Dodger to get to any cycle was Gary Sheffield right here at Coors back in 2000. Didn't happen so Wes Parker is still the last to do it.

What, no props for Beimel's nice work on Helton to end the 7th.

I am glad Russell Martin is a Dodger. Buy out his remaining arbitration years and an FA year or two NOW.

What, no props for Beimel's nice work on Helton to end the 7th.

I am glad Russell Martin is a Dodger. Buy out his remaining arbitration years and an FA year or two NOW.

"If you want your kid to learn how to play, look after a guy like Jamey Carroll, look after a guy like Juan Pierre."

-Rockies' announcer Drew Goodman

Pirates leave 'em juiced. 4-2 Pads, bottom 3rd.

759 as a matter of principal and much more--you are right.

Please use Broxton to start an inning!

Home grown players like Martin and Loney are the most important point to me. And I believe we have a few more coming.

Sacramento is the AAA champion!

786 Cycles only count during one game, not one day.

This is a good time for Broxton to work out the kinks. 3-run lead, 5-6-7 hitters in the line-up, fairly well-rested. If he falters here it might be cause for concern.

789 - I can understand his point. It's like pointing at Eckstein. Work hard, hustle, play within yourself, respect the game, don't try to just get by on talent.

They may not be the best players, but they are three of 750 men who have the Greatest Job in the World™, and they managed to get there by hard work, not just sheer talent. There's a lesson there for kids.

When do the defensive replacements, like Ethier for Gonzales, come in? Just for the ninth?

Brox looks terrible. Everything is up.

Sammy for 2 IP?

Maybe the Bull needs some rest?

So much for working out the kinks. Especially when you go against the jinxes of the Rockies' announcers who didn't seem to realize Broxton's had some struggles as of late.

795 I tend to agree with you, but to say someone like Pierre, Carroll, or an Eckstein doesn't have talent is grossly underrating them. For all the crap these guys get (including from me), they are still extremely talented.

I think there is a misconception that Eckstein, Pierre, et al are just some average Joe who is in MLB solely because of hard work, when in fact they are very, very talented.

799 That's the problem, you can't rest him.

Broxton's ERA is up to an even 9.00 in September now (until he gets some more outs)

That was a fantastic play by Nomar. Broxton was totally saved.

Yahoo had Atkins lined out to CF - he singled? And Spilborghs homered????

How do I learn to spit nails?

I wonder if Ken Gurnk still thinks Nomar has a bum arm, man, he threw an absolute BEE BEE to Loney.

803

You can't help & think he's tired, all those dingers he's givin up of late can't be coincidence's

Good thing Kemp and Loney will both bat in the 9th.

Phils go to extras.

I wouldn't mind seeing Saito make a 4 out appearance if Broxton falters.

Ooh, the US-Nigeria Women's World Cup game is on now. Don't tell me what happened if you know the score (assuming it's a rerun...)

801 - of course, they are talented. I'm speaking in terms of relativity - compared to me, these guys are incredibly talented (I highly doubt that I'd be able to get around on a major league change up, let alone a fast ball); but, compared to Andruw Jones, Derek Jeter, and Chase Utley, they are not as talented. They are judged in relation to their peers, not by weekend softball players.

The point is, these guys aren't in the Majors solely because of talent (and let's face it, there are some guys who are, I'm thinking of a certain left fielder who is the bane of Dodger fans' existence).

There we go.

Broxton was just trying to make the game more interesting for us, you know, because that's what we needed was more stress about the Dodgers.

811 I'm pretty sure I saw that result on Sportscenter this morning.

802 ... yes, you can. Hull and Meloan aren't just some random chumps Grady Little found on the street. If Grady is willing to start Loaiza and Wells, I don't see what is so dangerous about handing the ball to Hull or Meloan with a three run lead.

there showing a rerun of Gonzalez four bagger, man, it seems like an eternity ago....

Broxton finished stronger than he started. Get some insurance runs now, boys.

That's now 4 HRs for Broxton in his last 6IP or so. How ineffective does he have to be for Grady to demote him from his role? At best, he's currently our 4th best reliever.

Hull's last appearance was to relieve Loaiza Sunday while the Dodger defecit was still only two runs, and he held it. That was not a hopeless, Roberto Hernandez situation.

All I know is the Nigerian goalkeeper is... not very good. Can already tell that after ten minutes.

808 Nope.

Phillies have the bases loaded, 1 out. Greg Dobbs batting, Werth on deck.

Stupid Cardinals...

with Holliday coming up → [ http://tinyurl.com/229e6t ]

If we're putting our best defenders in, why is Martinez still out there? Hu should be out there, Martinez has already cost a few outs on defense this game.

So prior to Broxton giving up the home run, if Eric Hull walked in to pitch, no one would be wondering what's up with that?

818 Who do you trust more to pitch the 8th?

818 You want to demote a guy who has done this?

2006: 76.1 IP, 2.59 ERA, 97 Ks
2007: 78 IP, 2.77 ERA, 93 Ks

because a bad week and a half?

man, Stop 'em Saito™ has cat like reflexes...

828 Its more a reaction about the Giant games, etc.

Isringhausen strikes out Werth with the bases loaded to make it two outs in the 10th

Holliday vs Saito, cool match up.

The team whose announcers were wondering who Abreu was has to bat Omar Quintanilla against Takashi Saito!

ugh, Holliday....

MLBTV's servers must be on overload today.

Up to Colorado's PVL.

Cardinals have pinch-hitter, Aaron Miles, and Miguel Cairo coming up to bat in the bottom of the 10th. Sweet.

Though I don't see Pujols's name in the box score anywhere, so I think he'll come in as the pinch-hitter

837 Pujols is hurt.

Unbvelievable

Why can't the Dodgers get any PVL like that?

Not a good anniversary of 4+1.

Oh crap.

as soon as I saw Russell put his glove down I knew he called a curve, bad, just bad.

There is going to be a lot of drinking in that clubhouse tonight.

Rule 1 me, he hit it out.

I think I'm gonna cry.

Night all.

Well, nice season everyone.

The Dodgers' pillowcases are beginning to smell like mackerel.

First home run Saito had given up since June 8th

844 Here, too.

And that's that.

wait till next year.

crud.

on a freaking T, wow.

speeded up Helton bat...

First time Saito has given up more than 1 run in an outing all year

844 In my home tonight too.

The last time Saito gave up more than 1 run in a game was...yep, you guessed it, last September 18.

Well, the cookie didn't crumle for the Dodgers today, and that is all it is in my opinion. I feel it is probably over, and I hope the org. doesn't get crazy in it's response, although a bit of examination at the top levels might not be a bad thing.

Well at least we know the official day the season was over. No need for the overly positive spin Jon, this season is finished. Lets give in and start playing the kids. I am excited about next year! who can we get!!

Well, hopefully it'll be easier to watch the rest of the games without being nervous about the post-season. I'm fully in acceptance mode at this point with the Pads, D-Backs, and Phillies on pace to win tonight.

I fully expect Logan White to be named the Astros GM within the next hour or so just to make the day that much worse.

OK, I don't really expect that. McLane said he needs to talk it over with Tal Smith tomorrow morning.

No folks, I think NedCo is going to fish out a lot of PVL in the offseason and probably keep holding back the kids like he did this year and last year.

I've had enough. See you next year.

it this really a surpise though? going into this i thought we would be lucky to split.

Cards have men at the corners, one out for Spiezio.

We could be well on our way to matching the 1237 total posts on 9/18/06.

Ok..we just need to go 11-0 to get to 90 wins and a chance.....as I drink my 12 pack.

September 18

The Baseball Gods giveth. And the Baseball Gods taketh away.

I don't even know where we are in the standings anymore. I figure it's not all that relevant. We need four teams that do nothing but win to start losing, all of them. If this Dodger team makes the playoffs, it'll be one of those freak things.

The 2003 team that couldn't hit water if it... was technically still in the race for the wild card up until the middle of the final week. I remember attending a "must-win" game that they won against Arizona. But it was one of those scenarios where everything had to go a certain way, and it didn't. It'll keep me watching, but basically it's over.
2007-- not meant to be.

Cards tie the Phillies 4-4.

... I'll be just glad when this season's over.

It's been a six-month period of plain torture for this longtime Dodger fan.

Go ahead, Grady. Play the vets the rest of the year; it'll be the last chances you have to do so. You should be fired. You and Ned have ruined a team loaded with good young talent, and you've robbed the fans of a season that reeked of potential enjoyment.

Keep pushing me away, Dodgers.

867 Vin?

there's to many good things going for the Dodgers in '08, it's all good. one question I have & my apologies if it's at the wrong time, but Martin has a habit of calling a little curve, when a fastball is needed, I believe he called a curve (to a left handed batter no less) for Broxton as well, oh well just a question out of anger probably.

I've had a crazy night and have only been able to watch two at bats. Loney's HR ...and the last hit of the game. Talk about your highs and lows.

But...it ain't over till it's over!

Jimi, dude, it's over.

871
Did he say that, or am I just that poetic?

872

the curve he called for Broxton was obviously not today, I'm talking about the Giants game, not that it matters anymore, just correcting my self.

872 Martin's "little habit" of calling the wrong pitches hasn't hurt the Dodgers, if his habit exists at all. Of all 30 MLB teams, only the Giants and Padres have given up fewer HRs.

I'm still stunned I don't know what to do, seriously, I ain't drinking that's for sure, like some....

877

most likely your right, I'm just PO'ed. Helton was SO late on Saito's fastball though...

872

Not sure what you are nitpicking at Martin's pitch calls for. Saito was ahead, Martin called for a his out pitch, a slider, down and in. Saito missed and got it thigh high over the plate and Helton killed it. If Sammy executed the pitch as he normally does, Helton cant do anything with it.

I wonder if we will be allowed to say anything negative on DodgerTalk tonight. Probally not. They probally are hoping for a large dose of: Nomar is clutch, Pierre is fast, and Gonzo is good clubhouse guy.

Well, on reflection, I think it's true, the good thing is while the Dodgers aren't officially out of it, and I hope they keep fighting, I personally will be more relaxed because I basically expect nothing at this point. I'd like to see one of the next two games be made up mostly of newbies, though.

875 Sounds like something he would say. I couldn't hear the TV here at the bar, err, work, so I don't know if he did or not. Maybe you are that poetic. I guess we'll see come vow time.

But cha gotta have heart!
All ya really need is heart!
When the odds are saying you'll never win
That's when the grin should start!!!

Sorry, that was just to offset the couch kicking I was doing a minute ago.

882

yeah, & maybe Meloan & some others are allowed to pitch/play for a change.

879 I didn't mean to sound snippy at you Bluebleeder. Misdirected anger on my part.

I think Dodgers management needs to take a long look at itself this offseason and think about what they could have done differently this year. I really feel like the GM and manager cost this team a playoff berth this year.

885 Better than the dog.

I have a suggestion. How bout 1 lineup/battingorder for the rest of the season. How crazy would THAT be!!

887

It's all good Eric, believe me, "I feel your pain" this game is so crazy we'll probably still sneak in the playoffs.

AZ leading SF 5-0 in the 9th. Likely the D-Backs gain 1.5 games on LA.

SD 4-3 over Pirates in the 6th. Maybe Jim Tracy's crew can pull this one out?

Jimmy Rollins on 3rd with two out in the Phils/Cards game.

888 The funniest part of that comment is that I'm picturing Ned Colletti as a guest of Stuart Smalley.

[optimistic side coming out] there's still Russell Martins 20/20 thing to look forward too, & Bills is just fun to watch pitch.

Just got back from a sports bar.

There is a bottle of Tequila on top of my fridge and it's saying, "I can comfort you."

To which I reply: "Comfort away, friend."

Nah. I gotta work tomorrow. Night all. It was good to watch the game with Dodger fans. We were more shocked than saddened. Now, I'm just sad.

San Diego added a run and still have two on, one out in the 6th, leading 5-3. Bah.

896

Dah, I'm out.

895 Make mine a double.

The insanity that is going on with Broxton illustrates how Grady's folly isn't just a determination to favor old players over the young ones. Broxton is young but he has earned enough trust on the basis of past performance that it is irrelevent to Grady that in the present Broxton simply can't get the job done. Broxton is clearly fatigued, and he may even be hurting, but we all know he isn't going to say a peep about it, especially in a pennant race. But he earned the job of set-up man and that means he can suck at it and he is still going to get sent out there. The ability to react to changed circumstances, to improvise a new plan, is one that people in all walks of life need if the want to be successful, but Grady is just slow to take aboard new information.

Frankly I'm not sure today mattered as much as we think. Given the way the Pods and Phills are playing, we were pretty much done before the sun came up this morning.

Old friend Brian Falkenborg just struck out Ryan Howard in the 12th. That game is tied at 4, with 1 out, top 12.

Not that they're not talented but I still can't believe Charlie Manuel's poorly managed Phillies have a better chance to make the playoffs than the Dodgers do at this point.

Go USA Women!

895 I'll go for the tequila. It's not as if we have UCLA football to comfort us.

888

"I really feel like the GM and manager cost this team a playoff berth this year."

... That's exactly what they've done. The GM was more concerned with the credit/notoriety of "winning" the war for Juan Pierre or "winning" the right to be the sucker who signs Jason Schmidt's checks. He didn't understand his good fortune in getting one good year out of Nomar Garciaparra, and instead of doing the right thing (sending him on his way), he wanted the credit/notoriety of being the guy who re-signed the "popular" player.

The manager was more concerned with playing the "popular" veterans, especially the one he failed with in Boston, than he was with giving opportunities to worthy young players who had more than earned a chance. Instead of those young players learning lessons early in the season or midway through the season, they are learning the lessons in late August and September, and are being made (in some minds) as the scapegoats for the failure of this team to make the playoffs.

I feel that both need to be fired immediately after the regular season, and an owner with any concern about the baseball product would do so. From what I know about McCourt, he has little concern and will do nothing. I would look forward to him proving me wrong. This year has been an embarrassment -- another Dodger team with a $100+ million payroll missing the playoffs. This management team has done nothing with more resources than all but a select few organizations. I'm tired of this team being a laughingstock of baseball. It starts at the top ... if McCourt does nothing, it will show me that beyond a shadow of a doubt, he is not concerned with the on-field success of the ballclub.

902 What I can't believe is that Clint Hurdle's poorly managed have an equal chance to make the playoffs as the Dodgers have.

899 Not to add to what is just speculation (even if it's well founded), but if Broxton has to miss any time in 2008 or is less effective because of an injury that he refused to reveal, I will be more angry at that than from any managerial or front office move.

Pads juiced the bags, but old friend Brady Clark made the last out. 5-3 Pads, end of 6.

904 Grady Little won 93 and 95 games in two years in Boston, making an ALCS appearance in 2003. You have a different definition of "failure" than I do.

901 Falkenborg came in with a 2-for-1 and Branyan taking 1B, to hit second in the 12th, with a fellow named Pujols still on the bench.

But Jose Mesa is in for the Phils.

899 I agree with the last point in your comment, that's been a problem, but I dunno, about Broxton. He's been one of the best set-up men in all of baseball. Maybe he should have had a bit more rest, but I feel like people would be questioning Little not bringing him in in some of these situations recently had he instead brought in some of the other options. It's one of those damned if he does and damned if he doesn't situations. I can just imagine if Broxton had not gotten the call tonight (after not pitching the first game, nor yesterday, though he probably should've rested Sunday, even if he just threw for one out) - and brought in, who, instead? Yes, Meloan and Hull could very well be those other options but probably not in a game as big as this. Anyway, I basically agree with you but don't know whether the alternative would have been embraced either.

I have no problem with Grady tonight. Beimel, Broxton, Saito. If we had lost without using these guys then I would have been pissed. We got beat. It happens but this time it was not Grady's fault.

Pujols is injured and likely won't play.

904 I agree with pretty much everything in this comment.

908

... The Red Sox won the World Title the year after Grady left.

Grady left because he made a mistake in his most critical game; a mistake that was noticeable to even the most casual of baseball observers.

He left a failure. What other way would you describe it?

912 So I see.

Albert Pujols of the St. Louis Cardinals was a late scratch for Tuesday night's game against the Philadelphia Phillies due to a strained left calf muscle.

915
If you've been watching the broadcast, you would have learned that Al Hrabosky gets up every night at 4:30 to go pee, but it's much better since he's been put on Flomax.

I am not making this up.

Yeah, I mean Grady gave us the line-up we wanted in the first game and the pitcher we love and they lost. He gave us the order of relievers we wanted at the end of the game with a lead and they blew it. If it's easier to blame management (or Canada) for today's two losses then so be it. Sometimes players just have to play, pitchers have to make the pitches. As far as the greater picture, mistakes were definitely made by management this year, no doubt.

I'm outta here. Gonna watch soccer, write, have a glass of wine, and forget about baseball. (For a few hours.)

904 amen.

914 I dunno, but given about ten million other people have described that one moment ad nauseum, and it's been scrutinized more than the Zapruder film of the grassy knoll, I can't work up much interest in discussing it.

906 -- It sounds like you would blame Broxton. I'm not sure I would. No player takes himself out of action unless he either really, really can't stand the pain or his name is J.D. Drew. It is time that that is just accepted as reality. Management has to discern from a player's performance that something is wrong and take action and not wait for the player to complain. Broxton should have been shut down for the season weeks ago. Broxton knows if he made that call himself he would carry the label of quitter for the rest of his career. Management had to make that call and they refused.

I think the problem with Broxton lately is that even as he gets more and more fatigued, he gets put into more and more unnecessary situations. In his first 34 games, Broxton appeared with a four run run difference four times. In his last 43, he's appeared 14 times when the outcome was well in hand.

If Broxton's fatigue is what costs us a playoff spot, we'll have to wonder if it was really worth it bringing him in with a five run lead so often

920 I meant to add I'd be angry in general, most of it directed at the organization for not promoting an atmosphere where players are encouraged to be honest about their health, and team trainers and doctors are proactive about preventative measures.

I agree with your post in 920 .

Fan Appreciation Day is a tradition in our house. At least it won't be crowded. Maybe I'll win a catamaran or a set of fireplace logs.

Old Friend Cesar Izturis up with two on and two outs in the 8th in San Diego.

923
Watching the Hobie Cat being driven around the warning track was always melancholy for me. It meant that the season was ending.

917. Agreed and well put.

920 Broxton should have been shut down for the season weeks ago.

Really, weeks ago? I couldn't believe Durham turned on his hanging, inside slider, but I didn't think Broxton looked injured. His motion still looks ok (didn't see today's game) to me, and he hasn't lost speed, has he?

921 Agreed. I recall plenty of questioning in DT about some of Broxton's appearances.

And look who's coming up in St. Louis ...

Pujols PH for the pitcher against Mesa!

Old friend Guzman pinch runs for Old friend Navarro in Anaheim!

929 Ah, I was hoping you were distracted by the cat or attending to a medical condition.

I just had to come back to say that my cat just summed up the Dodgers' season with a very playful few moments, followed by the coughing up of a giant hairball.

932
I don't need Flomax yet.

920 ,927 Maybe "weeks ago" meant two weeks ago. From August 3 to September 4, Broxton gave up only one run (a HR) in 16.2 IP, with 13 H, 1 walk, and 20 K.

And more to the point in 921 , 5 of those 16 appearances were with 4+ run leads (although two were with the tying run on deck).

No pitcher has lasted more than 3 innings in the Phils / St.L game. No Cards pitcher longer than 2 1/3.

As Dodger fans, it has been ingrained into our DNA that we are supposed to love the Kirk Gibson home run in game 1 of the 1988 World Series, but isn't it time to ask if maybe that home run had a bad legacy? A badly hurt player who had no business playing played and the game was won begun of it. And what is the result of that "great moment in baseball history," the real legacy? Hurt players playing when they shouldn't and over and over again HURTING their teams rather than helping their teams.

Pittsburgh's last chance coming, still 5-3 SD.

Just to play devils advocate here, if you agree that the Dodgers have integrated more and more youngsters as the year has gone by (which seems fair), that you could point to them as the reason the team has failed. Consider this, in April and May, when the team had more PVL than ever, the Dodgers went 15-11, then 16-11. Since then, they've pretty much gotten worse every month, going 14-14 in June, 12-13, 13-15, then slightly bouncing back to 9-8 this month. Less PVL apparently means less wins.

(Note that this is a stupid, stupid argument and I don't actually agree with it)