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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Kiss Me Deadly
2007-09-18 22:13
by Jon Weisman

There's so much I could say now, though most of it would be obvious and therefore pointless.

On a personal note, I do keep thinking about that error Rafael Furcal made 11 days ago in San Francisco. The team was on such a roll before that inadvertent stumble. For me, so much changed from that point on. It's been uphill ever since.

And the Dodgers' rivals keep winning.

Who better, in a way, than Takashi Saito to give up the crushing home run tonight? Someone whom we couldn't possibly be mad at. Someone who falters so rarely that when he does in a critical moment, one strike away from victory, resignation opens the door for you with utter grace. I'm enough of a sap to only tiptoe in, but I'm not looking back.

It's been a schizophrenic year. It's been a year of transition, a year of potential, and it has just gotten away from us. Everyone will have their opinion of what went wrong. It will be interesting to see how the Dodgers assess it. Some mistakes, like a Furcal error or a 1-2 pitch from Saito to Todd Helton, just happen. Some mistakes don't need to be repeated.

* * *

I've had to come to terms with something recently. I tear up at movies. Like, pretty often, not just Brian's Song often. A movie hits me in a certain way, and I'm hopeless. It's the wife and kids that did it to me, and it's done.

And there is no crying in baseball, not for me. There's moaning and groaning and cursing, but no crying. I've invested ... well, I've invested every day since the 2006 season in this 2007 season, and yet nothing in a day like today moved me as much as the movie I saw for work this morning. Completely off guard, I was forced into surreptitiously wiping at my eyes.

I used to wonder whether I could ever be as happy when the Dodgers won as I was sad when the Dodgers lost. Not anymore. In all these years since 1988, I've changed. I've learned how to treasure the good in baseball, and fear the worst elsewhere. I'll remember last year's September 18, not this year's. And so even on a day as depressing as today was for the Dodgers, I'm going to keep the faith. I'm still looking forward to when they win.

Comments (659)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-18 22:20:13
1.   GoBears
Blah, I got LAT'd.

In re: the Broxton Dilemma:

It's all well and good to say that because players won't complain about being hurt, management has to figure it out and take action, but how is management supposed to figure it out? With some injuries, an MRI or X-Ray will tell the tale, and management can order the test and respond to the results. But the best diagnostic tool is still asking the patient questions. If they lie, you're out of luck, unless House is your team physician. When "tell me where/when it hurts" gives you zero information because players won't fess up, management is pretty much screwed.

Now, they can still go ahead and bench a player for poor performance, and not really care if the reason is an injury, but I don't see how that would be a better outcome.

2007-09-18 22:23:01
2.   Eric Stephen
Jon, what movie was it?

Movies I am not ashamed to admit I have cried while watching:
-Field of Dreams
-Major League

I swear to Ch-i, "The Indians win it. The Indians win it. Oh my God, the Indians win it!!!" get me everytime!

2007-09-18 22:24:49
3.   KG16
I got LATed, but the point remains, I miss Jayson Werth and think an outfield of Werth-Ethier-Kemp would be a lot of fun in the field and at the plate.

As for this season, well, it's been a blast, I was hoping they'd hang on just long enough for pre-season NBA action to start up, but oh well. The hot stove action will be interesting, I guess.

2007-09-18 22:25:43
4.   El Lay Dave
A movie hits me in a certain way, and I'm hopeless. It's the wife and kids that did it to me, and it's done.

I understand that completely. The same thing happens to me. I'm a complete sucker for parent/child relationship moments in movies.

The Dodgers have never made me cry, and the wretching season and heartbreaking moments eventually pass. But I'm old enough to have memories of 1988, 1981 and the 1970s almost-annual contenders to fall back on.

2007-09-18 22:26:30
5.   underdog
I guess from the subject header that Jon had a lot of 'Spillaining to do.

But I couldn't have said it any better myself. Well put, Jon.

Wait, what movie did you see this morning?

2007-09-18 22:26:51
6.   King of the Hobos
GM/White update:

Paul Meyer of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette says Amaro Jr is the favorite to be named the Astros GM. This is the second source to report Amaro as the favorite (the Philly Daily News reported it this morning). However, in the Houston Chronicle, McLane was quoted saying he needs to discuss the matter further tomorrow morning with Tal Smith. The Post-Gazette also mentions that Ed Wade would join Amaro in Houston as an advisor, which makes sense (he has close ties to both Smith and Amaro).

The Post-Gazette also mentions that as of tonight, the Dodgers had not requested permission to interview to Logan White.

2007-09-18 22:27:24
7.   KG16
1 - honestly, I think the better coaches and front office types are able to spot when a player is hurting. It might be a little thing like them not going as hard in warm ups, or something being off in the mechanics. The problem is, because most coaches use to be players, they also have it ingrained in their heads that not playing when your hurt is letting your teammates down.
2007-09-18 22:28:58
8.   Eric Stephen
2 I should have read more into the title of the post.
2007-09-18 22:29:27
9.   El Lay Dave
Speaking of Jayson Werth's nice night, maybe it's good luck to discuss 19th century literature with Molly Knight. Can she discuss maybe Moby Dick with Andy LaRoche?
2007-09-18 22:30:34
10.   GoBears
And now, by selfishly re-posting my blather from the last thread, I've wiped my dirty boots all over the clean carpet of Jon's terrific new post. Sorry about that.

I'm the same way with sports these days. I get very annoyed when people in positions of authority make avoidable mistakes, especially when it's due to stubbornness. But I no longer get angry with players for screwing up. I don't blame Juan Pierre for being Juan Pierre. It's not his fault someone paid him a fortune and someone else plays him every day.

And over time, especially with baseball, I've become as much a fan of the game as of my team. I'll cheer for a no-hitter against the Dodgers. I love watching Barry Bonds hit or Jake Peavy pitch. The 2005 season did not bother me because the team on the field was awful (due mostly to injuries to all the good players) - it only bothered me when Tracy still found a way to make the worst of a bad situation.

As I said a week or so ago, I think a lot of this is because the team I'm most passionate about, my alma mater, has been just horrible for most of my fandom. Going 1-10 really makes you appreciate the 1. Maybe the same is true for Jon, whose own alma mater has seen more rough times than good ones (at least in football, and despite recent success, mens hoops).

2007-09-18 22:33:54
11.   El Lay Dave
The Dodgers lost 1.5 games in the standings to every team ahead of them in the NL, except the Mets. They, and the Rockies, lead the Brewers/Cubs by 1/2 game.

I wonder if the "which starter on three days rest Saturday" question might become moot by then, practically if not mathematically.

2007-09-18 22:37:19
12.   CanuckDodger
6 -- Did you mean the Pirates haven't requested permission to interview White?
2007-09-18 22:38:31
13.   Eric Stephen
11 Yeah, I have a feeling Stults may be going on 16 days rest Saturday.
2007-09-18 22:47:44
14.   Jon Weisman
Today I saw an upcoming movie called "Lars and the Real Girl." Read the description, and then wonder.

Tomorrow, I see "Juno."

2007-09-18 22:49:18
15.   King of the Hobos
12 Yes
2007-09-18 22:54:32
16.   trainwreck
I have been waiting to see "Juno" for awhile. I basically want to see it because it stars Ellen Page along with AD alums Michael Cera and Jason Bateman.
2007-09-18 22:55:41
17.   dzzrtRatt
I'm with you, Jon.

I am disappointed but not feeling particularly rancorous. It's been a mostly enjoyable season, and there are still a couple of weeks to go.

I don't give Little or Colletti a pass for any of their mistakes They've done more things right than wrong. I don't see any of our competitors having a magic formula that we're missing out on. It's going to be a competitive, exciting division for the next few years, one that will drive us crazy.

That's the thing about today's games. Colorado's got some damn good players. It's no shame to get beat by the likes of Jeff Francis, Matt Holliday and Todd Helton (Durham is another story). Our young guys were unlikely to go from AA to the World Series in a year. It should be good enough for this season to know that Kemp, Loney, Billingsley, Broxton, Abreu and Martin weren't hype like Dodger prospects of the past. And I sure don't give any credence to speculation that Colletti's going to replace them with more 40-year-olds.

Anyway, it's still fun.

2007-09-18 22:57:10
18.   preacherroe
I agree its tough to invest too much emotionally in this season.It was all so iffy and transitional,tonight's let down hit me pretty dispassionately.I remember as a kid watching Stan Williams walk in the winning run in the 1962 playoffs against the Giants.That stung. Niedenfuhr's flameout in 1985 and Forstner's gopher ball to Morgan were painful.This was more like.... whatever.
If you're Colletti how do you take the club from mediocrity and diminished expectations to the promised land?
2007-09-18 23:00:56
19.   bhsportsguy
There are now 4 NL teams fighting for 3 playoff spots. As it stands right now, the D-Backs, Mets and Padres are in but the Phillies are now not only a game and half behind the Padres but now also the Mets.
2007-09-18 23:03:09
20.   dbenzen
I long for the good old DePodesta days. Colletti's penchant for the aged gives me cramps. If you gonna lose, lose with style, Ned.
2007-09-18 23:03:20
21.   Linkmeister
Re players playing hurt, UH football coach June Jones just said that his QB (Colt Brennan, who's got a very badly sprained ankle - black and blue variety) would play Saturday. "If you want to play in the NFL you gotta play with that kind of pain."

Well, maybe, but not at the team's expense or at your long-term health's expense, I wouldn't have thought.

I can't imagine how badly Saito feels; I'm frustrated but I didn't have a whole lot of hope left anyway, so to heck with it. Let the Brewers win; they haven't been there since 1982.

2007-09-18 23:05:10
22.   max power
18 You just made me shudder, bringing up that Niedenfuhr '85 business. It's been too long since I've gotten angry about that.
2007-09-18 23:05:42
23.   fanerman
Man, that one hurt. I'm a bit under the influence (for unrelated reasons) so I won't say anymore than that.
2007-09-18 23:07:02
24.   das411
Terrific post Jon. I can't help feeling that the Dodgers, strange as it may sound, are kind of where my Phils were towards the end of last season: shifting gears on the fly, yet still making a run of it, a couple of oldies that no longer really belonged (although to their great credit, Wolfman and Lieby seem to be fitting in very well in LA) and a whole slew of youngsters who make the future look brighter than ever.

But hey, if I were of an older generation of Phils fan, I would certainly be able to tell ya that 4 1/2 games back with a dozen to play is most definitely not insurmountable...

2007-09-18 23:07:05
25.   underdog
14 Written by Nancy Oliver who used to write for Six Feet Under. Looks great, even if the premise superficially makes you think of Mannequin, but it sounds like a different planet from there. I love Gosling and Paul Schneider, who was so good in All the Real Girls and quite funny and different in Live Free or Die. (not Hard)

19 Hey, the Dodgers aren't officially eliminated yet! ;-(

2007-09-18 23:07:51
26.   sporky
The only thing that's making me -truly- sad is knowing that I'll have to survive months without the Dodgers. Making the playoffs is obviously wonderful in itself, but it also delays the inevitable hibernation of baseball.

Hopefully after today's 2 losses, we'll see more of Meloan, Hu, Young etc.

2007-09-18 23:09:17
27.   JoeyP
Given the payroll and not making the playoffs---McCourt must be fuming.

With Zona' and San Diego being ran by people that know how to use computers, it'd be nice if McCourt brought that style back. Someone that knows the value of OBP, SLG, etc, cost-benefit analysis, upside....

PVL wont win you anything but smiles from the media.

2007-09-18 23:09:37
28.   Eric Stephen
The one potential positive of the wind being knocked out of the Dodgers sails is LaRoche getting more playing time so he can (hopefully) taste some major league success heading into 2008.

After his silver sombrero® in Game 1 today, LaRoche's line is .193/.382/.263 in 76 PA. He has been a two true outcome© player with the big club this year, walking or striking out in 42.1% of his PAs, putting him on par with:

Russell Branyan 49.5%
Ryan Howard 47.1%
Adam Dunn 42.1%
Wilson Betemit 42.1%
Jim Thome 42.1%

Hopefully LaRoche can get HR #1 out of the way, then the floodgates can open.

2007-09-18 23:10:00
29.   underdog
I actually thought Tony Jackson's last blog post tonight was one of his better ones, FWIW.

Okay, back to writing, vegging and sleeping. Here's to Hu's at Short tomorrow.

2007-09-18 23:15:05
30.   Jon Weisman
25 - The difference between this movie and Mannequin is like the difference between Ramon Martinez and Matt Kemp.
2007-09-18 23:16:12
31.   Eric Stephen
30 RM1 or RM2? :)
2007-09-18 23:16:42
32.   Eric Enders
14 Commencing wondering.
2007-09-18 23:17:20
33.   underdog
30 - I was thinking the difference between Earth and Betelgeuse but go with the baseball analogy. Or between Matt Kemp and Mike Edwards?

I look forward to it.

2007-09-18 23:17:52
34.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Given the payroll and not making the playoffs---McCourt must be fuming.

If he's realistic, McCourt will understand this is a roster in transition.
Last offseason, no one was sure if the kids could build on their promise. So, the team brought in veterans (and went overboard doing so).
A year later, it's obvious the young players are here to stay. Now, the challenge is to reshape talent into a winning team.

2007-09-18 23:19:03
35.   bhsportsguy
27 Maybe you would be but I just don't think he is fuming.

He certainly is not going to throw Ned under the bus for this season, I heard him say it at DT day and everytime he is interviewed that the best decision he made was hiring Ned.

2007-09-18 23:20:49
36.   Bob Timmermann
I don't see McCourt as a guy who fulminates like Steinbrenner.

The team has done pretty well, just not well enough. And a lot of people have paid to come to the stadium.

2007-09-18 23:21:34
37.   King of the Hobos
28 He's still over 10% behind Cust though, so he has a lot of work if he wants to be number one. Though if he increased his number anymore without hitting .300, he'd end up in the same situation as Betemit.

However, I think this just shows that Laroche really is pressing. He's striking out far more than he ever did in the minors, and I don't think the dramatic increase in K rate is solely a result of facing better pitchers.

2007-09-18 23:26:41
38.   Eric Stephen
37 Wow, Cust is at 52.5% of his PAs ending in BB or K! I should have thought to look him up.

Maybe Grady Little just needs to be Leo Durocher to LaRoche's inner Willie Mays, by going up to his young slugging third sacker and saying "you're my guy" to get LaRoche to settle down.

2007-09-18 23:27:52
39.   bhsportsguy
I don't know why there is this big concern about Andy LaRoche, he has had an inconsistent season, especially with all the injury breaks, now he is expected to perform well with sporatic play during the last two weeks of the season.

I would hope that whatever happens, good or bad, Andy will be given a fair shot to be the third baseman next season. And I think that will be the case.

2007-09-18 23:28:06
40.   Bob Timmermann
And is it a good thing that the owner becomes very angry when things don't go right? It was considered a bad things after the 2005 season when the McCourts went on a firing binge.

So is the best way to respond to a bunch of panicky moves is with another series of panicky moves?

The McCourts knees can jerk only so many times.

2007-09-18 23:28:29
41.   Linkmeister
Red Sox fan not happy either, with glorious picture of Gagne in Bosox uni.

2007-09-18 23:29:16
42.   Eric Stephen
I didn't notice the title of today's Dodger Report until after Game 2 tonight. I had to laugh amid my sorrow when I read "A Title Could Push Wells Out of Game".
2007-09-18 23:29:35
43.   Eric Enders
Players in the last quarter century who have posted an OPS+ of at least 125 at age 23 or younger:

Carlos Baerga
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Ryan Braun
Travis Buck
Ellis Burks
Miguel Cabrera
Robinson Cano
Jose Canseco
Eric Chavez
Will Clark
Kal Daniels
Alvin Davis
Adam Dunn
Lenny Dykstra
Prince Fielder
Travis Fryman
Troy Glaus
Juan Gonzalez
Mike Greenwell
Ken Griffey Jr.
Vladimir Guerrero
Mel Hall
Jeremy Hermida
Kent Hrbek
Andruw Jones
Ricky Jordan
Austin Kearns
Matt Kemp
Ryan Klesko
James Loney
Don Mattingly
Joe Mauer
Brian McCann
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Lloyd Moseby
Matt Nokes
John Olerud
Jhonny Peralta
Albert Pujols
Tim Raines
Aramis Ramirez
Hanley Ramirez
Manny Ramirez
Cal Ripken Jr.
Alex Rodriguez
Scott Rolen
Gary Sheffield
Ruben Sierra
Grady Sizemore
Darryl Strawberry
Frank Thomas
Jim Thome
B.J. Upton
Robin Ventura
David Wright

Players in all of Los Angeles Dodger history who have accomplished this:

Tommy Davis
Ron Fairly
James Loney
Matt Kemp

2007-09-18 23:31:11
44.   Eric Stephen
39 I would hope that whatever happens, good or bad, Andy will be given a fair shot to be the third baseman next season. And I think that will be the case

I hope so too. Well said.

2007-09-18 23:32:19
45.   Vishal
4 i'm not even close to being a parent yet, but "house of sand and fog" made me weep like a little child.
2007-09-18 23:34:10
46.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Fine use of PI there.
2007-09-18 23:35:43
47.   Bob Timmermann
My advice to anyone whose mother has passed away recently: don't watch "The Joy Luck Club."

Or you can just watch "Grave of the Fireflies" anytime and you'll be weeping within 15 minutes.

2007-09-18 23:39:25
48.   Eric Stephen
43 Eric, keeping your theme alive, here are the pitchers 22 or younger in the last 25 years with an ERA+ of 140 or higher (min 100 IP):

Chad Billingsley
Mark Buehrle
Scott Erickson
Dwight Gooden
Scott Kazmir
Francisco Liriano
Pedro Martinez
Ben McDonald
Mark Prior
Jose Rosado
Bruce Ruffin
Bret Saberhagen
Anibal Sanchez

Dodgers in bold.

2007-09-18 23:42:02
49.   trainwreck
I was about to say, I would bring up "Grave of the Fireflies," but I am sure Bob will do it.

You know how some things make you feel so dirty that you have to immediately take a shower? Well, as soon as I left class I put on music that made me happy and then I went and got some nachos, because I was in dire need of happiness.

2007-09-18 23:43:37
50.   still bevens
Can we bold Scott Erickson for old times sake?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-18 23:44:08
51.   trainwreck
"Pather Panchali" was so depressing and made me so uncomfortable, I actually thought of walking out of class.
2007-09-18 23:44:16
52.   Eric Enders
The Dodgers would like to know if they can use the last 15 words of 49 in next year's advertising for the AM/PM pavilion.
2007-09-18 23:45:16
53.   trainwreck
Well I guess I did that a lot actually, but the thought was in my head for completely different reasons.
2007-09-18 23:46:59
54.   Eric Enders
50 Your wish is my command.

Pitchers in L.A. Dodgers history with a season ERA over 6.00 (minimum 50 innings):

1 Odalis Perez 6.83 59.1 2006 29
2 Carlos Perez 7.43 89.2 1999 28
3 Phil Ortega 6.88 53.2 1962 22
4 Hideo Nomo 8.25 84 2004 35
5 Scott Erickson 6.02 55.1 2005 37
6 Roger Craig 6.15 112.2 1961 31

2007-09-18 23:55:30
55.   Eric Stephen
Speaking of dominant Dodger closers having a bad day, Eric Gagne's seven week sojourn with the Sox has been less than stellar:

14 IP, 9.00 ERA, 2.14 WHIP
opponents hitting .365/.429/.540

Opponents were only hitting .192/.265/.275 against the Texas version of Gagne.

2007-09-18 23:56:36
56.   Eric Enders
55 Is he worth a $6M flier for 2008?
2007-09-18 23:58:10
57.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Catchers who had a single-season OPS+ of at least 114 by Age 24:
Ted Simmons (4)
Johnny Bench (4)
Earl Williams (3)
Joe Torre (3)
Joe Mauer (2)
Jason Kendall (2)
Darrell Porter (2)
Russell Martin
Brian McCann
Javy Lopez
Mike Piazza
Craig Biggio
Matt Nokes
Mark Bailey
Rich Gedman
Lance Parrish
Biff Pocoroba
Gary Carter
Milt May
Carlton Fisk
Thurman Munson
Ray Fosse
Bill Freehan
2007-09-18 23:58:57
58.   Eric Stephen
56 I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Maybe we can play an edited version of the opening to Welcome Back Cotter when he enters the game next year!

2007-09-18 23:59:31
59.   Linkmeister
56 No.
2007-09-18 23:59:54
60.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
55 - Gagne is of the most beloved relievers in Dodgers history, and one of the most reviled in Red Sox history.
Quite a feat.
2007-09-19 00:00:37
61.   Linkmeister
To amplify, Saito's cheaper and just as effective, and so far he's not shown himself to be as injury-prone as the latter-day Gagne.
2007-09-19 00:00:54
62.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
57 - In the expansion era (1961-), I should've added.
2007-09-19 00:02:07
63.   Eric Enders
61 The question was not about replacing Saito with him, though. That would be nuts.
2007-09-19 00:02:54
64.   Jon Weisman
60 - Gagne is the anti-Dave Roberts.
2007-09-19 00:03:44
65.   Eric Enders
I don't revile Dave Roberts. I quite like him, actually.
2007-09-19 00:04:10
66.   Eric Stephen
56 ,58 I should add that there is no way Gagne would comeback to the Dodgers because he's going to want to close and he's not going to close in LA.

57 Catchers with 18+ HR, 20+ SB:

Benito Santiago, 18/21 (1987)
Ivan Rodriguez, 35/25 (1999)
Russell Martin, 18/21 (2007)

2007-09-19 00:06:30
67.   Eric Enders
Perhaps Gagne is the anti-Nomar.
2007-09-19 00:07:03
68.   Eric Stephen
60 ,64 He is the anti-J.D. Drew and Julio Lugo...oh wait.
2007-09-19 00:07:08
69.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
65 - Roberts won a place in my heart by successfully climbing Tal's Hill to steal a home run.
And that play kept alive a save for... Paul Harvey, er, Eric Gagne.
2007-09-19 00:09:32
70.   Eric Enders
If Gagne were the anti-Nomar, each player would have the added distinction of being reviled by the major league team closest to where he's from.
2007-09-19 00:10:12
71.   Jon Weisman
65 - Do I really have to explain? I just meant that Boston has had the opposite reaction to him.
2007-09-19 00:11:33
72.   Bob Timmermann
He thought you mean Dave Roberts, the former Padre.
2007-09-19 00:13:18
73.   Eric Stephen
I'm a little disappointed that this thread hasn't evolved into everyone listing movies that make them cry. I stick my neck out with "Major League" in 2 and now I hear crickets! :)
2007-09-19 00:19:05
74.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Snoopy Come Home.
2007-09-19 00:24:53
75.   overkill94
73 I figured you were joking

For whatever reason I've become much more prone to tearing up during movies in my post-college days than I ever did before. Even a movie like Donnie Darko that isn't much of a tear-jerker got me a bit welled up recently. Others off the top of my head that blurred my vision:

Field of Dreams (obviously)
Little Children
The Elephant Man
Garden State

2007-09-19 00:28:17
76.   Eric Enders
73 I was trying to think of some, but most of them were in 1989 when I was like 12 years old.

Field of Dreams
Dead Poets Society
Dances With Wolves
Antwone Fisher
Schindler's List

That's about all I can come up with.

2007-09-19 00:28:42
77.   overkill94
BTW, watched AI (the Spielberg movie, not reruns of American Idol) tonight and found it a bit dull. There was one basic theme with no fleshed-out side plots yet the movie was almost 2 1/2 hours long. The overall message of the movie was interesting, but I feel like it could have done a better job of building a relationship between the robot and the family.
2007-09-19 00:33:32
78.   Eric Enders
Oh, and E.T. Definitely E.T.

I know there are E.T. haters out there. They are few, and deeply misguided, but they're out there. Of course, I suspect none of them are on this site, because they all hate baseball. And sunshine, and puppy dogs, and apple pie.

2007-09-19 00:39:49
79.   Louis in SF
Speaking of crying I was in the Dodger dugout as young stringer in 1982 and Terry Forester was crying alot!

I can accept this season easier then some of the others where the Dodgers have seemed to under achieve. But for next year as important as figuring out 3rd base will be, the Dodgers will need in my mind more of the starting staff to pitch deeper into games. Can't prove it but some of the problems from Broxton of late I attribute to too much work. He is talented but those pitches staying up are brutal.

2007-09-19 00:41:55
80.   Dodger Tony
I believe tonight was the beginning of the end of the Grady era as manager of the team. The outcry has gone public with A. Martinez speaking of the clubhouse discontent openly on the broadcast.
I would very much like to see Dusty Baker given a chance as Dodger manager. I think he would be a fantastic role model for the youth on this club, he knews the league and the division, was a hated one but originally one of us. Yes, Dusty would be the next guy I feel
2007-09-19 00:43:43
81.   trainwreck
You just completely changed my mind.

Keep Grady!!!
Keep Grady!!!
Keep Grady!!!

2007-09-19 00:48:37
82.   Eric Enders
Dusty Baker hates young players more than any manager I've seen in my 25 years of closely following baseball. He just absolutely despises them and will do everything he can to make sure they do not get a chance to play.

Not to mention, he destroys pitchers' arms with overwork. His strategies are bewildering at best. He bunts every chance he gets and gives lots of playing time to really awful players. I mean, this is a man who, in the bottom of the ninth of Game 7 of the World Series, sent up Tom Goodwin, David Bell, and Tsuyoshi Shinjo to hit as his team's last best hope. Give me a break.

2007-09-19 00:51:17
83.   overkill94
I'd rather have Jim Tracy back as manager than to hire Dusty Baker
2007-09-19 00:53:16
84.   Jon Weisman
78 - I'll say I liked E.T. more than Before Sunset. That's all I can give you.

Plaschke has weighed in on the Dodger Talk controversy. Is there really a need for this to go on?

2007-09-19 00:53:54
85.   Jon Weisman
80 - I don't want Baker either, but what did A Martinez say?
2007-09-19 01:15:10
86.   bhsportsguy
I always lose it when I see the scene where the Richard Farnsworth character dies in the television adaption of "Anne of Green Gables" especially when he tells Anne after she says they should have gotten a boy to help him with the farm, that he wanted her the minute he laid eyes on his Anne.

That and certain Bonanza episodes does it for me.

2007-09-19 01:16:12
87.   Kilgore Trout
Following the posts a couple days ago about the Dodgers' record with Kemp/Loney, I took a look at their record when Lieberthal starts in place of Martin.

In those games, the Dodgers went 3-13.

This means that when Martin starts, they were 76-59, a .563 winning percentage, which would project to 91 wins and a playoff spot.

Not saying that Martin should start every day, but it's food for thought for anyone who thinks your backup catcher can be any over-the-hiller who hit 30 home runs once.

2007-09-19 01:19:27
88.   Greg Brock
There are far too many to mention, but a few that get me every freaking time--

Ray Kinsella: Dad...Wanna have a catch?

Harry Bailey: A toast to my big brother George...The richest man in town.

Oh Captain, my captain

Christopher Plummer sings Edelweiss before leaving Austria

Oskar Schindler is given the ring

C.S. Lewis and his son in Shadowlands

The end of Glory

"Say goodbye to Frankie"...In America.

2007-09-19 01:19:40
89.   bhsportsguy
85 According to A Martinez, towards the end of the first game, he spoke to a "veteran" player who was upset that Grady played LaRoche and batted him 7th in such a crucial game.

Martinez added that generally there have been rumblings about Grady's lineups for a while but this was the first time someone had spoken to him about it.

2007-09-19 01:20:13
90.   Eric Enders
Which is more important, the offensive gap between Lieberthal and Martin, or the defensive one? Or is it just the combination of the two that's a killer?
2007-09-19 01:20:23
91.   Greg Brock
86 I'll call you very soon. I've had a rough week and a half.
2007-09-19 01:21:24
92.   bhsportsguy
91 No sweat.
2007-09-19 01:22:05
93.   eusmus
87 Can you list the starters for the Lieberthal games?
2007-09-19 01:22:42
94.   Eric Enders
I was just about to post something wondering whether Brock thought he was too good for us all of a sudden now that he has a highfalutin' job. After all, what would Dodger Thoughts at 2 a.m. be without Greg Brock?

And then he comes along and repeats four, count 'em four, of the six movies I named.

2007-09-19 01:23:11
95.   Eric Stephen
So I'm not the only Dodger fan having trouble sleeping tonight!
2007-09-19 01:24:15
96.   bhsportsguy
90 If Martin played something like 11 out of every 14 games, I think the backup catcher's win-loss record would be better than 10 games under .500
2007-09-19 01:25:06
97.   Greg Brock
94 Brock isn't too good for anybody. Brock loves his DT peeps. Brock has had the worst week of his life. Brock is just climbing out of major, major depression.

Brock is picking up the pieces.

2007-09-19 01:25:47
98.   bhsportsguy
86 The great thing about YouTube, while I was thinking about that scene of Anne of Green Gables, I was able to find it and yep, it does it to me everytime.
2007-09-19 01:26:44
99.   Eric Enders
96 Brock has people here wishing him well. So, there's that.
2007-09-19 01:27:46
100.   Eric Stephen
89 I would guess there are three possible "veterans" that would express disappointment with LaRoche batting 7th in game 1:

Kent, Lowe, Gonzo

They are usually the ones with the veterany type quotes. Nomar seems too quiet to grumble, and I can't think of who else it would be.

It would be fantastic if Shea Hillenbrand was the unnamed veteran!

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-09-19 01:29:19
101.   bhsportsguy
And in other news, just on the basis of hairstyles, I can't see how the Phil Spector jury is deadlocked.

Though to be fair, I have not followed the case at all and it was probably not too hard to come up with doubt, whether or not it was reasonable doubt is another question.

2007-09-19 01:29:52
102.   Kilgore Trout
Anyone know where one can find catcher's ERAs for 2007?
2007-09-19 01:30:03
103.   Eric Stephen
97 GB, I hope things turn around for you.

This should cheer you up!

2007-09-19 01:31:06
104.   Greg Brock
99 Yeah, I ended up not getting the job I thought I got. It's a long story...And I'd really not have to go through the whole deal, but I ended up not getting the job.

So I'm unemployed. So there we are. On the bright side, I won't be unemployed for long. Teaching jobs aren't that hard to get. At least I can go to the beach for awhile.

Sharing life's total unfairness is fun!

2007-09-19 01:31:06
105.   Eric Enders
100 Wouldn't Hillenbrand be the most likely guy?
A) Has complained about his playing time literally everywhere he's been
B) Plays third base
C) Hasn't been let out of his cage in over a week
D) Is more likely than Nomar to complain since Nomar knew he'd be starting the nightcap
E) Is just an all-around jerk
2007-09-19 01:32:18
106.   bhsportsguy
100 I was going to add that from their perspective, you do have a kid with very little time and less success playing in probably a make or break game, why not start Nomar in the first game against the better pitcher and see what happens.

I mean Jeff Francis is a pretty tough pitcher anyway. And if you are going to play Andy, why not bat him 8th?

I mean I can understand the questions.

2007-09-19 01:33:59
107.   bhsportsguy
105 Somehow, from listening A Martinez, I just have to believe it was from someone who was a little higher on the totem pole than Shea.
2007-09-19 01:34:02
108.   Kilgore Trout
Found it at (catcher's ERA):

Martin 3.72
Lieberthal 6.11

Looks like a pretty big gap.

2007-09-19 01:34:26
109.   Greg Brock
103 That actually cheered me up quite a bit. Thank you for that, Eric. It's actually the best part of being a practitioner of Dudeism...It's like, whatever, man. I abide.

Brock abides.

2007-09-19 01:34:35
110.   bhsportsguy
104 Sorry man, just call when you can.
2007-09-19 01:34:54
111.   Eric Enders
But one of the great things about Shea is that he always THINKS he's high on the totem pole when he's not.
2007-09-19 01:35:03
112.   Eric Stephen
106 I can definitely see the veteran perspective on this, especially coupled with the fact that LaRoche has clearly been pressing and he was injured fielding grounders on Sunday.
2007-09-19 01:38:54
113.   Eric Enders
109 Hang in there, Brock. Certain things will come to light. Sounds like you could use a little silliness to take the edge off. Am I wrong?

I can come pee on your rug if you want.

2007-09-19 01:39:16
114.   bhsportsguy
112 On the otherhand, it shows that Grady was going to play Andy when he felt he was ready to play, for whatever good that did today.
2007-09-19 01:40:52
115.   natepurcell
I think everyone who has doubted Loney after his 2006 season should give him an apology.
2007-09-19 01:42:54
116.   Eric Enders
Doubting Loney after his 2006 season was nuts. Doubting him after 2004 was a little more understandable. Even I'll cop to that one.
2007-09-19 01:44:07
117.   Greg Brock
113 I'm fine now. It's amazing what four days of not showering, shaving, or getting out of bed can do to re-energize the batteries. I don't know why people knock depression...It's actually quite theraputic.

I've been working on my dance quintet. And building a replica of the San Juan Capistrano Mission out of cheese. And adapting the Elian Gonzalez fiasco into a musical. I'm staying busy.

But yeah, the silliness would be great right about now. Unfortunately, I'm more focused on getting a job.

2007-09-19 01:46:08
118.   eusmus
106 Considering how feeble Nomar looked against Mark "All-Star" Redman, I don't really mind LaRoche striking out against Colorado's ace.
2007-09-19 01:46:29
119.   natepurcell
Doubting Loney after his 2006 season was nuts. Doubting him after 2004 was a little more understandable. Even I'll cop to that one.

I agree, 2004 was understandable but I still remember some people who were still strongly doubting him after 2006. Its okay though. We just need Laroche to get it in gear and our core should be set for a while.

2007-09-19 01:47:28
120.   bhsportsguy
After reading Plaschke's column, I think I should host DodgerTalk, so I'm looking for my first caller of the night.
2007-09-19 01:57:02
121.   Greg Brock
120 I really hope Rawitch doesn't take the fall. Sure, he's a PR flack, but he's a cordial, intelligent, and open PR flack. And he's a nice kid.

I wouldn't want to bear the brunt of criticism for Ned Colletti.

2007-09-19 01:57:31
122.   natepurcell
So I went to my school's career today, which probably signifies the official Job Search May 2008. I wonder if spending the majority of my free time posting on DT is good networking to the angry I hate dodger talk shows PR man.
2007-09-19 01:58:17
123.   natepurcell
career fair...I've had a long week.
2007-09-19 02:04:09
124.   Eric Enders
121 Yeah, it really would be ludicrous if Rawitch ended up getting the ax over something like that. And frankly, the more quotes I read from Camille Johnston, the creepier she seems.

I criticize Josh sometimes, but it's really because of my disregard for the PR flak species in general. Josh himself does quite a good job of promoting the Dodgers without resorting to self-serving BS. He also seems to have more respect for his audience's intelligence than most PR people do, despite the posters on his blog doing everything they can to show how unintelligent they are.

2007-09-19 02:06:02
125.   El Lay Dave
120 Hey BH, thanks for taking my call. I don't really want to discuss anything; can I just take a shot at the Dodger trivia question?
2007-09-19 02:07:16
126.   El Lay Dave
Greg Brock - good luck and chin up man! Stiff upper lip and all that.
2007-09-19 02:08:39
127.   Eric Enders
The answer to the Dodger trivia question is Tracy Woodson. I don't know what the question is, I just know the answer is Tracy Woodson.
2007-09-19 02:14:34
128.   bhsportsguy
123 You could always head to Nashville for the 2007 Winter Meetings, they do have a job fair there too.

Or you could wait for the 2008 Winter Meetings in Vegas.

2007-09-19 02:16:35
129.   bhsportsguy
127 That's a good guess, but no the answer was Ted Sizemore.
2007-09-19 02:24:24
130.   El Lay Dave
128 Ned Colletti at a conference in Las Vegas. Now there's a mental image.
2007-09-19 04:58:31
131.   D4P
The movie "Mannequin" was "our movie" for my very first girlfriend and I, and the theme song was one of "our songs".
2007-09-19 06:08:41
132.   Felton
I am hoping for a "Wizard of Oz" offseason. Frank McCourt sees Oz for brains, courage and a heart. He fires the two men behind the curtain, then taps his heels together three times while saying "there's no place like home" and he vanishes. Jon hits the lottery and takes over the team based on some legalism like imminent acclaim. All the DT posters get good jobs in the organization. They may as well start stenciling "los Angeles Dodgers - 2008 World Champions" on the trophy.
2007-09-19 07:00:31
133.   Jon Weisman
Brock, you deserve better. Hang in there.

It didn't even occur to me that Josh would be fired over something so silly. Have I gotten so naive? I mean, forest for the trees, here. The team has been treated so well in the press all year until just a week ago, a moment when tension against the team figured to rise anyway.

2007-09-19 07:06:12
134.   Daniel Zappala
I've cried at more movies than I can list -- I tend to watch movies from "inside" the story and sympathize with the characters, whereas my wife, who went to film school, tends to watch them as a detached observer who examines what the director and cinematographer are doing.

I dare everyone to watch "Love Story" and not cry themselves silly.

In a way, reading this blog is a bit like watching a good movie. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go cry a bit over Brock not getting his dream job.

2007-09-19 07:13:49
135.   D4P
Brock: When in doubt, go back to school. It's a warm, safe cocoon that shelters you from the scary world outside.
2007-09-19 07:29:13
136.   Woody
Bye, bye 2007 season. I keep thinking about that Furcal error against the Giants, too, Jon. In reality, this was not a championship team and I think it's long way from it. Even with all our young guys playing next year, we definitely need help.

I'm not happy with Grady Little or Ned Colletti, but we're probably stuck with them for awhile. Why do they always seem to be a step behind in the common sense department?

Felt sad for Eric Gagne in his most recentl Boston failure. I guess it was not a mistake not to bring him back. Being a Red Sox fan (my AL team) and rabid Yankee hater, not even that race is looking promising right now.

2007-09-19 07:32:14
137.   Bumsrap
Of all the things that happened or didn't happen this year I think I would have liked to have seen more rest given to Martin and Furcal. Furcal's big error had more to do with fatigue than anything else. Martin's bat would have been stronger in the second half if he had more rest throughout the season.

Third base was the weakest spot all year long and not moving Nomar to third and Loney to first at the beginning of the season has cost the Dodgers a few precious games.

I wouldn't mind seeing a new third baseman next yeat, perhaps making a trade for Colorado's Ian Stewart who is currently blocked by Atkins.

2007-09-19 07:40:02
138.   Andrew Shimmin
When is Dodger Talk on? I've never listened to it before, but after reading about the recent doings, I think it might be the perfect forum for a theory I've been working on. I think Juan Pierre is the one who's been speaking Cantonese in the locker room, destroying the team chemistry.
2007-09-19 07:47:13
139.   Gen3Blue
Now is the time a team should begin looking at its players of the future. That means playing them.
2007-09-19 08:02:37
140.   Jon Weisman
The Rockies have every reason to celebrate yesterday's wins, but there's something funny about this sentence from the Denver Post:

"This (victory) kept the Rockies in the postseason hunt and practically vanquished the Dodgers' dreams in the process."

Team records:

79-72 Rockies
79-72 Dodgers

2007-09-19 08:02:44
141.   Howard Fox
139 unfortunately, for Coletti, playing Gonzo, Nomar & Kent IS looking at players of the future
2007-09-19 08:03:48
142.   Howard Fox
expect to see alot more of Hillenbrand, we still won't see much if any of Delwyn Young or the young pitchers we have, and Martinez will be a regular now that Furcal is out for the season
2007-09-19 08:04:53
143.   Howard Fox
140 they were probably referring to the Dodgers dreams of winning the division, while the Rockies dream of just making the playoffs...just a guess
2007-09-19 08:05:46
144.   D4P
Not to mention BP's playoff probabilities:

LA: 3.1%
CO: 2.5%

In your face, Rockies.

2007-09-19 08:06:39
145.   Howard Fox
with the season done, why not play Hu and Abreu and Young for the remainder of the season...give them an 11 game test run
2007-09-19 08:06:50
146.   old dodger fan
142 Maybe I am looking thru my rose colored glasses again but I think September 30 is the last time you see Gonzo in Dodger Blue. Kent and Nomar have 1 more year. If Nomar becomes the Nomar of the old days he might return but if we see the Nomar of '07 again he will be gone after '08.
2007-09-19 08:08:21
147.   Eric Stephen
137 Martin's bat would have been stronger in the second half if he had more rest throughout the season

1st half: .306/.374/.492
2nd half: .281/.380/.453

Just how strong would you like his bat to be? That 2nd half is pretty much inline with his first half. A drop in BA, but an increase in walks.

2007-09-19 08:08:26
148.   old dodger fan
146 Ref to 142 should be 141
2007-09-19 08:14:22
149.   caseybarker

It would take a locomotive to push Wells out of the game.


What kind of cheese? Mmmmm... cheese.

2007-09-19 08:17:42
150.   Bumsrap
147 - Are you disagreeing that Furcal and Martin could have used more rest this year?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-09-19 08:21:13
151.   Disabled List
I'm really glad I decided to sleep off yesterday's doubleheader disaster rather than log on to DT and vent. Rules 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 11 and 12 all would've been violated with prejudice.

I feel a little better this morning. Not much better, thanks to some tangential Rule 11 issues, but I'm at least a little more even-keeled about things. Time to warm up the hot stove and get ready for 2008!

2007-09-19 08:21:17
152.   Wilbert Robinson
Dodger Thoughts is one of my favorite things in the world. I'm really glad I found this place. Take for instance this morning. Wake up very late for work with fierce hangover. Get to work after the subway stalls for an hour. Check Dodger boxscore see that they lose game 2 of the double header. Glimmer of hope for watching Dodgers in playoffs at Shea down the drain. Flash of anger. Check this blog things are put in perspective and start thinking about movies that make me cry. And now I am happy again. The movies I've cried at are far too many to list but the last one was Hard Day's Night. The most perfect crying movie ever made is After Life by Hirokazu Kore-eda.
2007-09-19 08:21:43
153.   Bumsrap
I would like to see what Hu does with some playing time not to mention I don't want to watch Martinez play. Abreu should more or less platoon with Kent and Nomar. LaRoche needs to wait until next year. Meloan should have been participating regularly long before now.
2007-09-19 08:22:12
154.   Jon Weisman
150 - I think Furcal could have. I still haven't seen one person begin to show that resting Martin more would have improved the team's won-lost record.
2007-09-19 08:25:14
155.   Jon Weisman
There's this assumption that if Martin had rested more in the first half of the season, the positive impact today would outweigh the negative impact then. Why is this taken for granted? It's not as if he is worthless now, nor that he wouldn't have shown some decline in the second half even if he rested a game a week.

I can understand the concerns over his future, as vague the impact of this season on his future is, but I still don't see a strong case that Grady didn't handle Martin correctly as far as getting the team in the playoffs. Games in the first half count too.

So show me.

2007-09-19 08:28:21
156.   kinbote
while we're writing farewells to the 2007 season, here's mine:

i think this year has to be considered a monumental failure. after making the postseason last year, having a wealth of budding talent, and spending big bucks in the offseason, there's no way this team should have missed the playoffs. during last offseason, i thought we had potentially the second-most talent in the league [to n.y.]; all we needed to do was to augment our existing talent with some smart new additions. needless to say, those didn't pan out.

i'm usually optimistic during the offseason, but this year i'm just queasy. how do you tear up a team that has so much young talent? you don't--but something's still missing. based on what we know about colletti, little, and even our veteran leadership, i have to think a "big splash" offensive acquisition is a near-metaphysical certainty. after typing that, i begin to worry even more.

what's clear to me is that the nucleus of youth MUST stay intact: martin, loney, ethier, kemp, bills, & broxton are here to stay. obviously, we'd like to see players like laroche, abreu, & meloan get their shots as well.

personally, i wouldn't be heartbroken if furcal were traded [hu could take over and pierre could limit his damage to the leadoff spot]. but it would take a miracle for pierre or nomar to be sent packing.

the pitching looks all right. it would be nice to see some combination of kuo/tsao/brazoban regain their health and return to form.

as for 2007, say goodbye to madame george . . .

2007-09-19 08:29:35
157.   CajunDodger
I almost would prefer us not making the playoffs this year because I do not think we have the team to win a series against whomever we play. I would rather let the prospect of not even getting there and finishing 4th annoy Martin, Loney, Kent, et. al, for the entire offseason than us squeaking in there and having the organization think we are "close" when they get to Vero next year.
2007-09-19 08:30:51
158.   Kevin Lewis
While I was at the game last Saturday, I couldn't help but think about the two games we let get away in SF. The Furcal error definitely comes to mind, but if we had swept the Giants, the Dodgers would have had a completely different mentality this week.

Was anyone else wanting one of the Dodgers to appeal Helton touching home plate last night? I know, sore loser.

I don't know how to express how this year has made me feel. I did go to bed very sad last night. Today I feel a little better.

2007-09-19 08:32:26
159.   CajunDodger
I think that the decision to consistently play Nomar over Betemit and Tomdrickson over Billingsley in the first half cost between 4-6 wins. As far as Furcal resting, I think that a case could be made that putting Betemit in there once in a while could have made a marginal difference, but I do not think more than a game or two. I can't see the Martin thing...
2007-09-19 08:33:09
160.   Bumsrap
154 - Do we really need a stat to prove what intuitively seems likely. Martin caught extra inning games, caught all innings of blowouts, caught day games following night games, caught games after long late flights home.

In the first half he hit more often in the top of the order than he did in the second half. And maybe it was a tired mind that called for that pitch location to end the game yesterday. Maybe in another city Saito's breaking ball breaks enough that he hits the target but why call for a pitch near a left handed hitters wheel house in the first place?

2007-09-19 08:33:36
161.   MollyKnight
9-No, I'm a known around the office as a jinxer. Which explains why the Phillies are doing so well right now. I am currently working on a feature about why Philadelphia sports teams are snake bit.
2007-09-19 08:34:02
162.   Kevin Lewis
Bridge to Terebithia is the last movie that made me cry quite a bit. I had not read the book, and I lost a friend like that when I was younger, so it brought on the floodgates.
2007-09-19 08:37:32
163.   Daniel Zappala
Strangely, the one thing I'm saddest about is that the Dodgers' second loss yesterday invalidated my preseason prediction of 91-71. However, I refuse to give in just yet. I'm still a ten-year-old and I'm still holding out for 90 wins.
2007-09-19 08:41:43
164.   Jon Weisman
160 - To me, intuitively, those extra efforts in the first half contributed to wins, at a time when we didn't have Loney and Kemp to help the batting order. To me, intuitively, every time someone says Martin is dropping off, he comes up with a big hit like he did yesterday. The stuff about the tired mind is just pure speculation.

Again, I'm not saying a dropoff hasn't happened. But you still have to somehow convince me that he'd be more useful now with more rest than he was in the first half of the season. And he was incredibly useful then.

2007-09-19 08:43:40
165.   D4P
Posters still alive:

marty 80
bill crain 81
d4p 82
trainwreck 83
clair malone-evans 83
joeyp 84
humma kavula 84
schoffle 84
regfairfield 84
scareduck 85
greg brock 85
gobears 85.5
kavymon 86
disabled list 86
gagne55 86
bobtimmermann 87
gen3blue 87
oldfan60 87
ssjames 88
toycannon 88
underdog 89
natepurcell 89
bhsportsguy 89
vishal 89
unclemiltie 89
paranoidandroid 89
dodgerbakers 90
bumsrap 90
johnson 90
stopthebeachballs 90
lat 90
screwballin 90
thinkingblue 90

2007-09-19 08:44:21
166.   CajunDodger
Here is a question that I have: Assuming we do not make the playoffs, where do we go from here? The only decent free agents out there are outfielders this winter (A-Rod not included). Pitching will again be at a premium with few arms available, though we have three consistent starters coming back.

I am racking my brain to figure out what we can do to improve the team that is not an abstraction (sorry, but Pierre has about 640 games or so left as a Dodger and noone else wants him).

Maybe a Little for Baker/Kennedy swap would do the trick...

2007-09-19 08:48:32
167.   ToyCannon
I've never equated tearing with crying. I shed teardrops all the time, but I've only cried once since I was a child. My wife cries at least once a week, probably because she's married to me.
2007-09-19 08:53:39
168.   Paul Scott
The last time we did not make the playoffs, our GM got fired. Maybe we can hope for the same here. Probably not, but here's to wishing for the best.
2007-09-19 08:54:38
169.   MollyKnight
Movies that make me cry, off the top of my head:
I Am Sam
In America
2007-09-19 08:56:28
170.   D4P
I've been waiting until (God forbid) we're officially swimming with the fishes to bring it up, but it has not escaped my attention that:

1. The previous GM made the playoffs his first year, did not make the playoffs his second year, then got fired.

2. The current GM made the playoffs his second year, (did not make the playoffs his second year?), then...

2007-09-19 08:57:33
171.   Sushirabbit
The viewing of all the saved (previously censored) love scenes at the end of Cinema Paradiso.

I've felt for awhile that even if the Dodgers could reach the post-season they didn't have enough to go farther. The pitching implosion is somewhat beyond control. But having three left fielders play sometimes can't be good. Sometimes Gonzo looks better to me than Pierre and Kemp. Kemp is young, though, and has the howitzer arm in addition to the bat. I know it is old, but I just can't wrap my head around the Pierre signing.

2007-09-19 08:58:22
172.   MollyKnight
I'm not ready to write off LaRoche just yet, BUT, the fact remains that the Dodgers need another big bat in their offense (provided Kemp progresses to where we all think he might).

We're stuck with Pierre. Furcal will be good next year once he heals. Kemp, Loney, Ethier, and Martin are (god-willing) locked in. I know it's a long shot, but Alex Rodriguez is on my Christmas list. And I've been a very good girl this year.

2007-09-19 09:01:52
173.   old dodger fan
Yesterday morning I really believed we needed to sweep the Rockies and when we lost the opener I figured it was over for 2007. Despite that thinking I hope Grady plays every game until we are eliminated like it matters. I much prefer a, "Never Give Up" mentality to a realistic, "We are too far behind to catch up" one.
2007-09-19 09:03:42
174.   D4P
I hope Grady plays every game until we are eliminated like it matters

But what does that mean? Does it mean playing the old guys or the young guys?

2007-09-19 09:04:14
175.   ToyCannon
I don't see the need to do anything but let this team grow together in 2008 while preparing for 2009 when we free up 35 million or so in salary.

I see a nice mix of high upside youngsters(Loney, La Roche, Kemp, Ethier, Martin) and players in their walk years (Kent, Furcal, Nomar) with backups(Hu, Abreu, Young). I don't see one position I'd spend a dollar on unless it was Arod.

To me the pitching is already set.
Billingsley, Lowe, Penny, Loaiza will be the 1st four.

The 5th will come from Schmidt, Kuo, McDonald, DJ Houlton

The summer of 2008 will see Kershaw, Elbert, Orenduff, or even McGrew

The bullpen is:
Saito, Broxton, Beimel, Meloan, Hull, and whoever

Ned should do all he can to land Arod, otherwise I'd be sitting pat.

Will that happen. Not on your life.

2007-09-19 09:04:37
176.   Bumsrap
Maybe if the Dodgers had a third catcher and allowed Lieberthal to pinch hit more often all made posible by trading Olmedo Saenz, Martin could have been strategically rested more often.

The Dodgers have not been elilminated and can still make the playoffs. With Billingsley, Penny, and Lowe the Dodgers could do well in the playoffs. We should fill the ether with positive thoughts.

2007-09-19 09:05:48
177.   ToyCannon
Only someone completely enamored with Depo and disgusted with Ned, can equate our 2007 season to the 2005 season.
2007-09-19 09:07:53
178.   D4P
Will that happen. Not on your life

I tend to agree, which raises the question: Where will Ned make the changes? 2B, SS, C, and CF seem virtual locks. 1B would seem to belong to Loney, but you never know. 3B is likely to be some kind of Nomar/platoon situation. Will Ned be comfortable with Ethier and Kemp flanking Pierre?

2007-09-19 09:08:04
179.   Paul Scott
170 At a 3% playoff probability ...

At any rate, even if I do get something nice for [insert appropriate upcoming religious or secular holiday], I don't see much good it will do. We won't be rehiring DePo. I really have no idea if Kim would be any good if promoted and I don't see any one on the market that wouldn't be just as bad as Ned. Also, unlike our prior GM, Ned has saddled the team with at least one crippling contract (arguably two, if you include Nomar - which I would if it were not for the length).

2007-09-19 09:08:28
180.   scareduck
167 - I tear up, but oddly, only in my left eye, and only in the mornings, sometimes.
2007-09-19 09:11:30
181.   ToyCannon
Tell your wife to stop sticking her finger in your left eye while your asleep.

I meant of course emotional tearing.

2007-09-19 09:11:31
182.   MollyKnight
Gosh, I'm really sad right now. After our terrible play in August, I knew making the playoffs was a long shot. But, I'm just so sad!
2007-09-19 09:13:29
183.   CajunDodger
I have never divulged this to anyone and am embarrassed to the point of shame, but I teared up during Armageddon right before Bruce Willis exploded himself.

I hearby turn in my Man Card...

2007-09-19 09:14:49
184.   Sushirabbit
Cheer up, you could be a Giants fan. :-)
2007-09-19 09:15:27
185.   MollyKnight
I think this will be the height of my sadness. That is, until the Angels sign A-Rod.
2007-09-19 09:15:40
186.   ToyCannon
I would not be shocked if he felt he needed to upgrade 3b, and I'm not sure I'd be adverse to such a move. As much as I like La Roche the bulging disk changes everything, and Andy did himself no favor by not following the simple excercises they prescribed for him.
2007-09-19 09:17:42
187.   Paul Scott
177 ... as any right minded Dodger fan should be.

I completely agree on ARod. It is part of what made the Nomar and Pierre signings so stupid (only part, of course). The Dodgers were one of the few teams that - if they prepared properly - could have afforded Boras' demands vis-a-vis ARod. We have a great core of young (and therefor cheap) players. It would also have opened up some options - such as (though hardly necessary as ARod is more valuable moving back to SS in 2009 anyway) moving LaRoche in a high value deal. We also have a high payroll. So we could have realistically offered ARod a long contract in his expected $30/year range and not harmed the franchise. We would probably only be paying a franchise tax in his last couple of seasons - which could also have been manged with some appropriate front loading.

In spite of the Pierre and Nomar signings, I still think we should be doing what we can to sign him. The creativity it will take to be a leader in the bidding for ARod, however, is sadly lacking from our GM and staff.

2007-09-19 09:22:14
188.   jasonungar07
168 yeah I am wishing for it for sure. This team did not meet my expectations I wonder if it met McCourts.
2007-09-19 09:24:10
189.   briano
I am tired. Twenty years tired. It is time to stop making excuses for this team. The Dodger is in need of some serious changes primarily in the dugout. Grady Little must be fired and replaced with some fire. Who? There's one answer and all one has to do is look at the team that has totally surprised MLB: The Arizona Diamondbacks. The Dodgers need to cut ties with Grady and bring in one of the main reasons why the DB's are stunning the baseball world. Kirk Gibson. Gibson has been one of the main ingredients to the success of the DB's. To bring in Gibson as manager makes so much sense on so many levels I won't even go into all. But just a few will do: Passion, No tolerance for losing or losers, and finally the love and respect of the Dodger fans. This would show the Dodgers fans that the organization is truly on the road to reclaiming the respect that they have lost in the baseball world and among many long time Dodger fans.
2007-09-19 09:24:15
190.   GoBears
165 I guessed 85.5? What the hey? I am sure to be wrong. Or was the question phrased as "what's the over/under?" That could be a half-game, whatever it takes to maximize the volume of bets. Or maybe I just weasled it and said "85 or 86?"

Eh, whatever.

It is worth pointing out that the Dodgers were pretty healthy this year. Furcal played at less that 100%, and we lost Schmidt and Kuo early (and Repko!) but that's about it. Nomar...but that's no surprise.

2007-09-19 09:25:16
191.   D4P
IIRC, you weasled it.
2007-09-19 09:26:26
192.   Im So Blue
87 93
Record when Mike Lieberthal starts: 3-13
Starting pitchers:
Hendrickson (0-3), overall 4-7
Kuo (0-2), overall 1-4
Loaiza (0-1), overall 1-2
Lowe (1-1), overall 12-12
Stults (0-1), overall 1-3
Tomko (0-1), overall 2-11
Wells (1-1), overall 3-1
Wolf (0-2), overall 9-6
Seanez (1-0) (Wolf started)
Tsao (0-1) (Wolf started)

Lieberthal did not start for either Penny or Billingsley. The starters' records when Lieberthal was catching are in line with their overall W-L records, with the exception of his Philly buddy Randy Wolf. Looks like Lieberthal is a victim of small sample size and lousy starters.

2007-09-19 09:28:54
193.   old dodger fan
So here is what we root for.
Yankees make the playoffs, get eliminated in the first round and A-Rod goes hitless. NY Press and Yankee fans blame him for the loss, he gets mad and opts out of his contract vowing to never play for a NY team again.
2007-09-19 09:30:17
194.   Jacob L
O.K., this is really lame, but I honestly doubt, among this forum, that I'm alone in this.

The scene in "The Rookie" where he calls his wife to ask him to bring his coat and tie to Arlington - copious tears.

2007-09-19 09:30:56
195.   caseybarker

2007 was the year the team was supposed to have grown together after all the short-term bridge-the-gap contracts in 2006 (Nomar, Lofton...).

But Colletti decided to bridge the gap for one more year (Gonzalez, Nomar, Kent extension, ...).

2007-09-19 09:31:09
196.   Ricardo
Bob, the Dodgers are doing their best to sleep with the fishes as soon as possible.
2007-09-19 09:32:18
197.   ToyCannon
1. We lost Kemp early in the year when he slammed into the wall and then went to AAA to rehab and didn't show up for a while.
2. Kent was the hottest hitter on the team when he went down and then it took a while before he got his stroke back.
3. Furcal was never healthy all year.
4. Nomar and La Roche were lost at a key time in August.
5. Schmidt
6. Kuo
7. Wolf
8. Tsao-thus allowed Ned to rationalize the trade of Betemit for Proctor

I don't see how losing 3/5 of your rotation is healthy.

2007-09-19 09:34:48
198.   Gen3Blue
175 As often happens I agree with the Cannon.
I am generally too conservative to think about something like A-rod, but the fact is I see no reason to spend anything on position players, ending up with mostly cheap home grown solutions. If we could just develop a few starters we could afford him.
2007-09-19 09:35:35
199.   fanerman
155 Late to the party, but... I always say to rest Martin for his future. He seems to be a freak of nature in being able to handle the workload now, but who knows what it means in the long run.

And A-Rod. Yes. Sign him.

2007-09-19 09:36:22
200.   Humma Kavula
If I'm not too late to the party, I cry at "All that Heaven Allows" when Jane Wyman's kid gives her the television.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-09-19 09:37:41
201.   Jon Weisman
189 - As soon as Gibson makes his first boneheaded decision - as all managers ultimately make - no one will care about the passion. Ultimately, I suspect he wouldn't be much more successful than Magic Johnson was as Laker coach.

I love Kirk, but calling him a main reason that the Diamondbacks are stunning the world?

2007-09-19 09:37:43
202.   underdog
152 Well said, Wilbert. And speaking of Japanese tear-jerkers, did you see Nobody Knows? That one had me sobbing.

162 And Terabithia had my girlfriend bawling uncontrollably. In fact she was mad at me for "making her" watch that. I think she related to the little girl in that film, too.

2007-09-19 09:37:51
203.   underdog
190/197 - Yeah, I wouldn't dismiss injuries as having little effect on the team. The loss of those two starting pitchers was devestating, I think. Furcal was never right. As Toy says, we lost Nomar and LaRoche right after they traded Betemit away, which made that trade look even more stupid. Having either Tsao or Kuo healthy (and effectively so) would have helped a great deal. It was a downward spiral for the team right after the first month or two, despite their solid record for awhile after. Whatever pitching depth they add next year it better be someone with little to no track record of surgery and injury, alongside, hopefully a young pitcher from the minors or three.
2007-09-19 09:39:51
204.   underdog
Calling Gibson a good luck charm makes more sense, even if it's at least as irrational. Maybe the Dodgers need to add a human lucky charm to their bench. (Not a leprechaun, a former player...)
2007-09-19 09:42:04
205.   caseybarker

It's not as if there haven't been changes in the Dodger organization for twenty years. The changes that have taken place have mostly been harmful to the team. As a lot of the comments have alluded to (more playing time to Ethier AND Kemp, more starts to Billingsley, etc..), wholesale changes are not needed for this team to compete for a championship.

2007-09-19 09:42:39
206.   gibsonhobbs88
186 - You're right about 3B being the main place they could upgrade. If A-Rod is not in the picture, who then? Mike Lowell? I am just afraid Ned will trade the wrong young talent to get a PVL at 3B. They already blew their chance at getting a prize CF this year by blowing their wad on JP. Furcal is okay and will be better when healed next year(just stay away from Repko{Schleprock}) and he'll be back to his 2006 numbers.
I felt the injuries to the rotation was our Waterloo this year. Losing 3/5 of your original starting 5 this year to injuries or incompetence(Tomko)truly hampered us this year. Hoping next year Schmidt can at least bounce back and earn some of the money we threw at him prior to this season. He should be a better option than this year's 5th starter in Tomrickson. Lowe, Penny and Billingsley are a good starting three. If Loaiza doesn't work out and turns out to be another Tomrickson then I would look to one of the youngsters mentioned in other posts above, McDonald, Stultz, Houlton or if he is truly ready for the show, Kershaw.
2007-09-19 09:46:33
207.   regfairfield
I don't know, it's strange since I honestly don't care all that much that it's over. Maybe it's because I threw in the towel over or a month ago, or even before the season started, but last night was simply met with a "huh, that sucks", and I moved on.

I don't think firing people are the answer. A third great purge in four years won't help much. We almost all argued that DePo deserved time to let his plan take hold, so why shouldn't we give Ned the same benefit? Yeah, we can argue about his love for PVL, but I think everyone except LaRoche has pretty much gotten a fair shake. If you want to see what it really looks like to see a young player get screwed over, look at Adam Jones in Seattle.

Firing the manager won't change anything, anyone you hire will be exactly the same, or be Dusty Baker and blow up the staff. As I keep saying, any manager that's ever missed the playoffs is hated by his fanbase, and as long as you aren't doing things that are detrimental to the long term health of the club, it doesn't really matter.

We'll be a much better club next year, and that's all there is too it. This year needed too many things to go right for it to be successful, and not enough of them did. Cest la vie.

2007-09-19 09:47:28
208.   Gen3Blue
196 Yes, in the Luca Brazzi division.
2007-09-19 09:47:43
209.   Paul Scott
189 Little is hardly the problem. He blunders like all MLB managers, but it is not as if he has some systemic, crippling issue (the likes of which we saw from Jim Tracy). Firing him and replacing him with - well, anybody - would not have any dramatic effect on the team's winning ability.

[203 (et al)] Our injuries were relatively minor this year. Like pretty much every team in baseball, we had some injuries and at least one (Schmidt) should be considered as having a "major effect." But this was not anything like 2005. As a whole, the Dodgers were healthy. I also don't think it is at all fair to blame 3B on "injuries" - the core problem was trading away for essentially nothing the guy that should have been our starting 3B all season. That was a GM problem, not an injury problem.

2007-09-19 09:47:46
210.   old dodger fan
206 Would you exercise Wolf's option ($9M vs. $500k buyout)?
2007-09-19 09:48:19
211.   Humma Kavula
I love Andy, but if they can get one of the best players in the game to play 3B, the Dodgers should do it.

That's A-Rod or Miguel Cabrera.

How much would you guys offer A-Rod, if he's even available to the Dodgers? I'm in the camp that thinks the Yankees will sign him to an extension.

What would you guys offer in a trade for Cabrera? Wouldn't the mythical beast have to be a centerpiece of that trade, and if so, are you still interested?

2007-09-19 09:48:42
212.   driches
I'm sorry if this has been broached before, but assuming the dodgers want to keep the young core together for the foreseeable future, what are the payroll issues for keeping them?

It looks like Billingsley, Broxton, Kemp, Ethier, Martin, and Loney are all under $500k right now, but for how long? And if Loney or Martin has a couple more full seasons on par with this year, won't they be expecting healthy raises pretty soon? If so, will the Dodgers be able to keep them all (assuming there will still be some Pierre-esque contracts around)?

2007-09-19 09:50:12
213.   fanerman
207 Well, it'd be nice to fire Pierre.
2007-09-19 09:50:41
214.   Wilbert Robinson
202 Yes I actually recently saw that one and it got me as well. Oh and while we're at it Ikiru by Kurosawa is great also. You can actually watch it here if anybody feels like crying:
2007-09-19 09:50:47
215.   Humma Kavula
207 Not that I disagree, but most of us argued that DePodesta shouldn't have been fired because he had only 2 years to implement his plan... while one could argue that Ned Colletti has no plan, neither trusting the kids nor jettisoning them for veteran players. Giving him another year or three might only bring more of the same.

I think that's splitting hairs, but I do see that side of it.

2007-09-19 09:51:46
216.   Nagman
After reading the Times game recap, I was surprised to read that the Rockies have never finished higher than the Dodgers in franchise history?
2007-09-19 09:52:00
217.   caseybarker
I'd love to see the Dodgers offer Martin, Loney, and possibly Kemp (next year) long-term contracts to keep costs down.
2007-09-19 09:52:33
218.   regfairfield
212 None really, any long term contract signed after this year will probably be structured something like this:

2008 - One million
2009 - Four million
2010 - Six million
2011 - Seven million
2012 - 12 million
2013 - 12 million

The real money won't come up until it's someone else's problem. The Dodgers have absolutely no financial commitments after 2011 right now.

2007-09-19 09:54:02
219.   Gen3Blue
Did Furcal hang it up for the season--there was a post earlier to that effect.
2007-09-19 09:54:36
220.   regfairfield
215 Of course, in fact I've argued in the past that Ned has no plan whatsoever, but I don't think that's true anymore. He just believes in very slowly integrating young talent. It will be interesting to see how he handles the first young player that doesn't immediately set the world on fire.
2007-09-19 09:54:44
221.   ToyCannon
I had no idea how Terabithia ended. I was a bit shocked that a children's story would have such a real ending. It was hard to sit through and I was angry she died, but unfortunately, real life isn't done by Disney.
2007-09-19 09:55:29
222.   Paul Scott
207 "We almost all argued that DePo deserved time to let his plan take hold, so why shouldn't we give Ned the same benefit?"

Because Ned's clear plan is a plan for failure that will be saved (or rather, mitigated) only by our farm system. The sooner he is gone, the better (though as I said in an earlier post, I don't see any obviously better alternatives - but I also don't see how it could get worse).

DePo's clear plan, on the other hand, was going to be successful and was building on the right abilities. It was not random luck that with DePo we have 5 Center fielders for our 5 outfielder positions. It was not random luck that the bats were stacked with TTO hitters. etc. etc.

2007-09-19 09:56:20
223.   CajunDodger
I know our recent forays into the FA 3rd base market has not gone well (Mueller/Nomar) but we could splurge a little on Mike Lowell, strengthen our bench a bit and call it an offseason.

That leaves mucho $$$$$ in the bank for a Mr. Santana and Miggy Cabrera after the 2008 season.

2007-09-19 09:56:39
224.   old dodger fan
218 We only have 2 financial committment beyond 2008 (Schmidt, Pierre) excluding potential buyouts (Penny, Loaiza). Payroll will look a lot different in 2009.
2007-09-19 09:59:35
225.   paranoidandroid
In 2007, this team found it's identity in a lot of ways. If we had one more pitcher (Maddux?) we'd be right in it. A few close games going our way and we are in it. If we win Lowe's three complete games, we're in it. We established our young players as the future, and now we need to win on the basepaths and with fundamentals and defense.

Next year will be a battle from day one and we simply need to win the battles within the game to get back to the top. The Rocks are loaded with guys who can smack the ball. The D-Backs had their fun this year, I don't see them as a complete team just yet but they are young and will be in the mix for some time. The Pads have pitching and a pitcher's park. The Giants will improve because they can't be any worse than this year and they have young pitching, good young pitching.

I don't think we need big splashes to be in a position to win it all. We just need to keep our core intact, stay healthy, and keep the faith.

My reaction to this being over for us is how Saito reacted last night. You look, you realize you didn't do enough, you move on. And you know that you'll be right back in it with more desire and experience in 08.

The future can be very bright, let's not overreact.

2007-09-19 09:59:36
226.   regfairfield
224 Penny will almost certainly be there for 10 million in 2009, and we have some other minor commitments to Nomar.

223 I just can't see that happening unless LaRoche is just out of the Dodgers plans. It knocks Nomar out of a job, something that Ned would get eviscerated in the press for, and turns LaRoche into plan C.

Considering Mike Lowell will get paid this offseason, he doesn't seem like a wise investment.

2007-09-19 10:00:27
227.   Humma Kavula
223 Mike Lowell is exactly what I fear.

1) Biggish name -- but not too big
2) Old
3) Will command multiyear contract
4) Will expect to start every day

No thank you -- not when the jury is still out on LaRoche. It's one thing to replace him with one of the top five players in the game, but that's not what Lowell is.

2007-09-19 10:01:24
228.   ToyCannon
That didn't come out right. I hate Disney and everything it stands for.
2007-09-19 10:02:23
229.   ToyCannon
Wow, that sure is a polyanna view of the Depo plan.
2007-09-19 10:04:27
230.   El Lay Dave
200 It's Jon's party, but you can cry if you want to.
2007-09-19 10:06:31
231.   Wilbert Robinson
Considering Mike Lowell will get paid this offseason, he doesn't seem like a wise investment.

Plus he is demanding 4 years.

2007-09-19 10:07:06
232.   fanerman
All I really have to say about the offseason is that we really should sign A-Rod, and if we don't, we shouldn't end up signing any PVL garbage for the sake of signing someone.
2007-09-19 10:07:21
233.   Humma Kavula
221 /228 I'm confused -- Bridge to Terabithia is a Walt Disney Picture.
2007-09-19 10:08:37
234.   D4P
How ironic that Nomar is our biggest defense against Lowell.
2007-09-19 10:08:48
235.   Dane Bramage
204 I've always felt that Mickey Hatcher could be that lucky charm. He seems to be doing things right by the Angels...
2007-09-19 10:08:56
236.   Paul Scott
229 Do you take factual issue with my assertion that we moved from a team in 2005 with 5 Center Fielders to a team in 2007 with none?

Do you take factual issue with my assertion that we moved from a team based on TTO (e.g. patience and power) in 2005 to a team based on stringing together hits plus some base stealing in 2007?

If not, where do you find the so called "polyanna" view in my assertions?

2007-09-19 10:10:52
237.   ToyCannon
"DePo's clear plan, on the other hand, was going to be successful and was building on the right abilities"

That one.

2007-09-19 10:11:17
238.   still bevens
Are we all assuming our defense isn't going to be bottom tier next year? Is that something new coaches would be able to fix?
2007-09-19 10:11:23
239.   gibsonhobbs88
210 - We tried with Wolf and it didn't work. I don't know if Wolf can ever get back to what he was and $9 million is alot to gamble and try again. Plus we now have Loaiza who is committed through 2008, so replacing Loaiza for Wolf is a wash. I say buy him out for $500K.
2007-09-19 10:11:28
240.   regfairfield
232 That's pretty much my main fear this offseason. Barring a splashy trade that Ned isn't exactly known for, the Dodgers really should only go out and get a couple bench players off the market. I figure there's a decent chance that he might sign someone just for the sake of doing something, since Plaschke will not be happy if the Dodgers stand pat after finishing third/fourth this year.
2007-09-19 10:11:39
241.   kinbote
195 - amen.

212 & 217 - it's probably true that the best thing that could come from this offseason would be the long-term signings of martin & billingsley. i don't understand why other teams do it but we don't.

2007-09-19 10:12:08
242.   fanerman
So what players would Mr. Ned likely target? We don't have any real holes, but he doesn't seem to mind overloading positions with players, as others have noted.
2007-09-19 10:12:23
243.   CajunDodger
I think that I would like to see Lowell because of his defense and the fact that he would not be expected to be the offensive centerpiece. I also think that the max he would require would be a 2-3 year commitment. Though I like LaRoche's bat, balky backs have a way of turning decent position players into DHs.

Besides, we have the money. Our pitching staff is vastly underpaid by current FA standards and we are getting rid of around around $32 million in salaries. That .380 OBP sure would look good batting between Kent and Martin...

2007-09-19 10:14:22
244.   regfairfield
238 I see two gigantic holes in our defense next year, Nomar and Kent. Everyone else is at worst average, and by all rights Nomar should be gone by Mid June.
2007-09-19 10:14:42
245.   fanerman
243 But we have a relatively balanced offense. What we need is an offensive centerpiece.
2007-09-19 10:17:05
246.   Paul Scott
232 Yeah. That is my greatest concern. It is also fitting with what he has done in the past. ARod is the only legitimate big signing that fits with the Dodgers this year. The best thing we can do is to sign ARod. The second best thing we can do is nothing. Personally, I expect Ned to "go get some veteran help." Most likely that help will in fact hurt.
2007-09-19 10:17:39
247.   Wilbert Robinson
243 He is requiring four years.
2007-09-19 10:18:35
248.   paranoidandroid
I don't see Lowell as a realistic option for too many reasons to list.

A-Rod is intriguing on many levels. If he is interested in coming our way, we'd be remiss to not look into it carefully regardless of LaRoche or Nomar who can be moved or benched.

Otherwise, we are in the market for quality pitching, an upgraded bench that can come from Abreu and a few others we already control.

This should be a relatively quiet off season for us. We should stockpile some arms if we can (again) and basically stand pat. We are in good shape for next year.

2007-09-19 10:18:45
249.   GoBears
197. What Paul Scott said. I was thinking about the comparison to 2005. But even the rotation injuries this year - Schmidt and Wolf - shouldn't have been at all surprising. Both guys were huge injury risks. Kuo too, actually. So Collett's vaunted depth was really a plan to start Tomko and Hendrickson a lot, and sure enough, that's what happened.

I agree that the 3b problem was completely avoidable. Put Betemit in there on day 1 and leave him there. Kemp got hurt, yes, but waiting so long to bring him back was, again, a choice.

So let me rephrase - 2007 had its share of injuries, but not more than most teams. We can't blame the record on bad injury luck. We can blame it on poor personnel decisions by the GM and, although his options are more constrained, the manager.

And, of course, we can blame it on the D-Bax running away with the division despite being outscored on the season. So in that sense, there's certainly an element of bad luck.

2007-09-19 10:18:50
250.   D4P
That .380 OBP sure would look good batting between Kent and Martin

Lowell's BA and OBP over the years:

0.267 0.267
0.253 0.317
0.270 0.344
0.283 0.340
0.276 0.346
0.276 0.350
0.293 0.365
0.236 0.298
0.284 0.339
0.329 0.384

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-09-19 10:19:15
251.   CajunDodger
If he is wanting 4 years, then screw it. Forget everything I just said. Get some pitching depth, another bench player or two, and call it an offseason. Save the money for the 2008 offseason and some long term contracts.

The one wild card in this is what to do if Kent retires. The pat answer would be to put Hu/Abreu in that slot and call it a day.

2007-09-19 10:21:53
252.   Wilbert Robinson
251 Hubreu! or Abrehu?
2007-09-19 10:22:57
253.   fanerman
248 We can always get him to play SS... well, probably not because we'd have to move Raffy, either to another position (CF is right after SS on the defensive importance list, right?) or another team. Then we can stick with LaRoche at 3rd. Of course now I've moved from potential free agent signing to pipe dreaming.
2007-09-19 10:23:08
254.   CajunDodger
250, 251
See, I can hear the voice of reason when my argument sucks...
2007-09-19 10:23:17
255.   underdog
4 years for Lowell will make the Pierre contract reasonable by comparison. Forget it, indeed. We're not gonna get Cabrera (unless he eats his way out of Florida, which could happen, but in that case, who wants him?), but A-Rod may be someone the Dodgers try for. I say go for A-Rod, or stick with Andy as the future and try to bring another offensive weapon in to another position. If we're stuck with Pierre, maybe a 4th outfielder with a lot of power?

Honestly, even just having a healthy Furcal next time will make a big difference for the offense.

2007-09-19 10:23:38
256.   paranoidandroid
Abreu will make the team next year. Hu will be at Vegas unless we have injuries.
2007-09-19 10:24:43
257.   Gen3Blue
250 Wow that is a contract year list if there ever was one.
2007-09-19 10:26:22
258.   regfairfield
243 He's coming off a year where he hit .326/.380/.500, I'm thinking 4/48 at the minimum.

It should also be noted that if he hits .280ish (which he will next year, especially since he abuses Fenway to the tune of a 230 point jump in OPS) he drops to around .280/.334/.454, that is in no way worth what he's going to get.

2007-09-19 10:28:30
259.   ToyCannon
Interesting that we don't want him but the team who will sign him is considered by many to be sabremetric friendly.

I think Ned's goes East and takes not Arod, Lowell, or Glaus, but Iwamura from his old trading partners. They need room for Longoria and could use some middle infield help to bridge the time before Brignac is ready and some relief pitching. Just a thought.

I've really grown to dislike Kent, and hope the next time he slides headfirst into home that some savvy catcher crushes his fingers.

2007-09-19 10:29:09
260.   El Lay Dave
My fear, and I hope it's a phobia (if only because some other GM will offer four years before Ned does), is that Mike Lowell is exactly Ned Colletti's kind of player.

.275 or better most of the time
35+ doubles a lot
20+ HRs a lot
100+ RBIs a few times
Gold Glove
4-time AS
Doesn't strike out in huge number (over 90 only once)
Tony Conigliaro award (character guy)
infrequent DL inhabitant
34 years old (in the spring), PVL in his prime

In my bad dreams, Ned signs Lowell and Torii Hunter, trades LaRoche and Ethier for "pitching depth", and moves Pierre to LF.

(My nightmares include the above, plus other revolting developments, such as Dusty Baker managing.)

2007-09-19 10:30:19
261.   jasonungar07
244 Pierre is below average on defense. he is as much as a hole on defense as Kent and Nomar.

Our problem this year IMO were what we said they would be in April. Consistent Offense and Defense.

2007-09-19 10:31:19
262.   Paul Scott
253 That is what I would like to see, ultimately (though, again, Ned's 2006 off-season signings make it very hard for the Dodgers to afford him). It's what the Yankee's should have done to maximize value - both offensively and defensively - moving Jeter to 2B and playing someone else at 3B. If we did sign him, I'd think seeing him at SS in 2009 would be the right thing to do, unless we can package LaRoche for a killing.
2007-09-19 10:31:53
263.   Reiichi
How many heads will roll if the Dodgers finish 4th? Would that possibility force Grady to play PVL over the last games to try to finish 3rd? (which might work against him)

Kent seems more intent on winning than getting paid being so close to retirement. I'm not sure how much he believes in the youngsters but I could imagine him retiring if he doesn't think the Dodgers have a chance to go all the way next year.

2007-09-19 10:33:10
264.   dzzrtRatt
I think there will be a massive effort to secure a third baseman who can contribute to the offense this off-season.

Lowell would not be a terrible choice. It seems like he's been around forever, but he's 33, and he OPS's above .800 consistently, missing it just twice since 2000.

The problem with Lowell is he's going to want a four-year contract, so we'd be signing him for at least three years if we did a Furcal-type of deal -- probably upwards of $16 mil per year. That sounds bad, but A-Rod or Cabrera will demand almost twice that amount. They're clearly better, but 90 percent better?

I'm glad Pierre is having such a bang-up conclusion to the year. I'm hoping this will make him attractive trade bait for a team like Baltimore, which is a team starved for the excitement and drama a player like Pierre brings to the game. I could just see Camden Yard full of kids wearing rabbit ears in his honor. I have a bad feeling about letting go of Delwyn Young. This "where do you play him?" refrain bugs me. The answer to that question is always "left field" and that's where Young should debut next season, with Kemp in center and Ethier in right.

2007-09-19 10:33:33
265.   fanerman
261 For what it's worth, Pierre (91) has a lower Rate2 than Kent (96) and Nomar (93) this year.
2007-09-19 10:33:40
266.   regfairfield
259 They have him because they were forced to take him with Beckett.
2007-09-19 10:33:51
267.   gibsonhobbs88
251 - Yes. 4 years too much for a guy that is 35 or over. Unfortunately, exactly the type of guy Ned will go for instead of shooting for the moon with A-Rod(if available). I wish they hadn't signed JP for 5 years also either, but we are stuck with him. An OF of Young, Kemp and Ethier is only a pipe dream at this point. Sigh!!
2007-09-19 10:36:24
268.   bigcpa
I have to agree with 234 . LaRoche's slow start has made Nomar's contract a savior. If Nomar was a FA I can't imagine Ned going into Spring Training banking on LaRoche.
2007-09-19 10:37:14
269.   caseybarker
Delwyn Young is the fourth outfielder with power.

Move the left field wall in about 100 feet, and it will make everyone on the team seem like an offensive machine.

2007-09-19 10:38:15
270.   Paul Scott
264 The problem with that thinking is the assumption that Ned is looking to trade Pierre instead of loving him. Pierre was Ned's (by far) biggest acquisition. He loves the way Pierre plays. He thinks Pierre brings huge value. Pierre "doing well" only validates that and makes it all the more certain that we will keep him.
2007-09-19 10:38:56
271.   Kevin Lewis
I just don't feel comfortable about Ethier's status on this team. I would not be surprised to see him traded in the off season...which would really stink since I have an Ethier jersey.
2007-09-19 10:38:58
272.   ToyCannon
Yes, but that worked out well for them. I've just been hearing from friends in Boston that they plan on resigning him and they would be surprised if he hits the free market.
If he does hit the free agent market as others have noted he would fit the Ned criteria to the tee.
2007-09-19 10:39:17
273.   fanerman
267 We could just stop playing Slappy. Tell him, "You're a great guy and all but you're a horrible defender and a horrible hitter, so we're just gonna stop playing you. You can sit on the bench and make your millions, so be happy. We'll use you as a 5th outfield/pinchrunner/last guy off the bench. Thanks for taking one for the team."
2007-09-19 10:42:28
274.   Wilbert Robinson
I think we all know that pierre will not be traded and will play 162 games next year in Center Field for the Los Angeles Dogers.
2007-09-19 10:43:37
275.   ToyCannon
I agree, Ned loves JP. The idea that Ned would trade JP is just a waste of time.
2007-09-19 10:43:41
276.   regfairfield
272 True. I think Lowell would be an attractive player at a younger age (decent bat, great glove) but he's too much of a risk to collapse. He also seems like the type of guy that would love Fenway (which he does .316/.376/.512 career there).
2007-09-19 10:44:17
277.   Wilbert Robinson
Yes that's right there are going to be 3 baseball teams in LA next year. The Dogers, the Angels, and the Dogers. You heard it here first folks.
2007-09-19 10:44:51
278.   fanerman
That sounds bad, but A-Rod or Cabrera will demand almost twice that amount. They're clearly better, but 90 percent better?

We have a bunch of "solid" guys on offense (and Slappy). But the only way to improve on solid guys is to get a really good guy (A-Rod). Otherwise there just seems like no point in signing yet another solid guy (Lowell). If the really good guy costs $30 mil, well, all the solid guys are making < $1 mil right?

2007-09-19 10:44:52
279.   D4P
Pierre is on pace for:

.293 batting average
95 runs
195 hits
63 stolen bases

I can't see Ned being disappointed with those numbers. Sure, he would have preferred .300 BA, 100 runs, 200 hits, but Pierre is close enough.

2007-09-19 10:45:03
280.   LogikReader

Uh oh. I was legitimately satisfied with Mike Lowell until you brought up those "last 4 years before this one" statistics.

Now I'm thinking Lowell could be Julio Lugo part 2. DT, where would I be without you?

2007-09-19 10:45:05
281.   Wilbert Robinson
277 why can't I spell Dodgers any more?
2007-09-19 10:46:54
282.   CajunDodger
I just ran a check of the FA for 2008, and the list is utterly putrid, but one name did intrigue me...


Would he be worth a look?

2007-09-19 10:47:17
283.   El Lay Dave
275 And the Dodger party line will be that Pierre provided what was expected, or close to it. He's going to finish, probably, with something like 95 R, 190+ H, 60+ SB (currently with 82% success rate). Never mind that .330ish OBP.
2007-09-19 10:47:58
284.   ToyCannon
I just thought you were spelling it the way you say it in Brooklyn.
2007-09-19 10:48:53
285.   Eric Enders
I am not the suicidal type. But if anything were to make me want to shoot myself in the head, it would be the Dodgers getting knocked out of the pennant race last night followed by logging on here this morning and finding a group of otherwise thoughtful, rational people discussing the possible signing of Mike Lowell.

Just kill me now. If that's what it's come to, then get it over with.

2007-09-19 10:49:02
286.   El Lay Dave
281 Because there aren't enough Gs left for the Boys in Blue.
2007-09-19 10:50:57
287.   still bevens
I worry that if Kent decides to retire Ned will freak out again and do something crazy. I doubt he would feel comfortable just plugging Abreu in there and calling it a day.
2007-09-19 10:51:24
288.   ToyCannon
Were not so much advocating signing Mike Lowell as saying that is the type of thing Ned would do.

I'm not suicidal but if they were to sign Dusty Baker as the manager I'd consider shooting someone else in the head.

2007-09-19 10:52:00
289.   Bob Timmermann
"Eric... I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it, it might cheer me up to watch." ;-)
2007-09-19 10:52:57
290.   regfairfield
282 I don't see him being much better than the man he would replace, Ethier. Power seems to translate very, very poorly from Japan to the bigs.

287 Fortunately, there's no one he could get even if he did.

2007-09-19 10:54:10
291.   Bob Timmermann
I would be even more wary of a Japanese player heading west after missing much of the year with a wrist injury.

At least that's what I thought Fukudome had. I could very well be wrong.

2007-09-19 10:54:15
292.   Wilbert Robinson
290 Are you calling Marlon Anderson nobody?
2007-09-19 10:55:17
293.   ToyCannon
We could probably take Durham off the Giants hands for Dewitt so that Denker and Dewitt could be reunited once again:)
2007-09-19 10:55:36
294.   D4P
Fortunately, there's no one he could get even if he did

I'm not ruling out a trade for Ray Durham...

2007-09-19 10:56:03
295.   jasonungar07
I think this is what Paul is getting at and I agree BTW.

279 "I can't see Ned being disappointed with those numbers"

I agree with the statement. What bothers me is that with Depodesta I felt he had an understanding of how many runs were scored because of Pierre's many runs were not scored due to lack of extra base hits, how many runs were not scored because of a low on base percentage etc..and Coletti dosen't. What percentage of those 60 steals resulted in a run, etc...

Sure he gets it in general as he had to watch it, but I don't get the feeling he really knows or cares to quantify it.

Ned reminds me of Han Solo when the Hyperdrive dosen't work.

2007-09-19 10:56:08
296.   ToyCannon
Those masturbation injuries take forever to heal.
2007-09-19 10:56:26
297.   LogikReader
Eric, I'd like to know your angle on a possible Mike Lowell signing.

It's not like he's garbage. But yes, I agree that Lowell may not be the best option.

It's so funny that I compiled that 3B free agents list and Lowell was the first one that popped into my mind, after Arod, but I digress.

2007-09-19 10:56:31
298.   D4P
We finish each others'...sandwiches.
2007-09-19 10:57:01
299.   ToyCannon
Are you are as scared as I am that were thinking alike?
2007-09-19 10:57:01
300.   caseybarker
Bob, are you trying to assign to someone a rule 2 violation?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-09-19 10:57:06
301.   CajunDodger
Guilty as charged. I am just trying to prepare myself for an out-of-left-field move that has become the hallmark of the Colletti era (Resigning Nomar with Loney in the wings, the Lugo deal, JP) and come up with the most palatable scenario.

Mark my words, if Lowell does not resign with Boston, THIS WILL HAPPEN.

2007-09-19 10:58:29
302.   Bob Timmermann
So, I'm feeling really tired, but I have a ticket to go to the Angels game today.

Should I make the drive down to Anaheim? Will I feel better after being outside for a few hours? Or should I hunker down and stay home and feel sorry for myself?

2007-09-19 10:59:19
303.   Eric Enders
Okay, a couple of things. Someone up above mentioned that, well, at least we were relatively injury-free this season. In my view, that was exactly the problem. The 2007 Dodgers were one of what are probably very few teams in history who would have benefited greatly from injuries to four of their regulars. To wit:

Gonzalez getting injured would have cleared the decks for Kemp and Ethier.
Same for Pierre.
Furcal, had he suffered an injury requiring DL time, would have given way to the superior (at least this year) Chin-Lung Hu.
Nomar getting hurt would have cleared the way for Loney and/or LaRoche.

Too many guys getting hurt was not the story of the 2007 Dodgers. Not enough guys getting hurt was.

Next, let me explain my distaste for a Lowell-type signing. There are only two types of free agent signings that can help a team in the Dodgers' current situation -- either fringe bench players on the cheap, or bona-fide superstars. Anybody in between is completely useless. The Dodgers already have fairly legitimate options at every single position on the field, and also for every spot on the 25-man roster. Signing middling free agents like Lowell -- or Gonzalez, Pierre, Nomar -- helps no one, because there are already better and cheaper options in-house. You might as well take your $8 million and light a match to it. The only way to upgrade the lineup and not be completely throwing your money away is if you give it to somebody like A-Rod.

2007-09-19 10:59:20
304.   caseybarker
Take Metrolink!
2007-09-19 10:59:30
305.   Bob Timmermann
For those unclear with my comment about Eric and suicide, I was copying a line from the "Simpons Movie."
2007-09-19 10:59:44
306.   Wilbert Robinson
I predict that Ned will accidentally sign Abraham O. Nunez while intending to sign Alex Rodriguez. Say what you will about Ned but he's always had good intentions.
2007-09-19 11:00:00
307.   Bob Timmermann
You see, I actually want to GET to go the game.
2007-09-19 11:01:03
308.   fanerman
There are only two types of free agent signings that can help a team in the Dodgers' current situation -- either fringe bench players on the cheap, or bona-fide superstars. Anybody in between is completely useless.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.

2007-09-19 11:02:40
309.   Paul Scott
295 "Ned reminds me of Han Solo when the Hyperdrive doesn't work."

Love it. That sort of quote should make D4P proud. I'm going to shamelessly steal it. Thanks.

2007-09-19 11:04:16
310.   D4P
The quote met my approval.
2007-09-19 11:04:49
311.   Eric Enders
309 So we need a Wookkie to take over the pilot's seat.

Bob, as the tallest person here, will be playing the part of the Wookkie.

2007-09-19 11:05:24
312.   ToyCannon
Don't go Bob, a baseball game is rarely worth the effort to get there.
2007-09-19 11:05:43
313.   Eric Enders
Dang, I spelled Wookiee wrong. I knew it had an extraneous double letter, I just forgot which one.
2007-09-19 11:08:00
314.   D4P
Oops, you did it again!
2007-09-19 11:09:20
315.   caseybarker
Come on, Bob. If I had the tickets, I'd be in my seat already with a beer and a dog.
2007-09-19 11:09:32
316.   fanerman
Wikipedia says:

A Wookiee is a member of a race of hairy bipeds in the fictional Star Wars universe.... A common, though incorrect, spelling is Wookie.

313 So, you were right without realizing it, I guess.

2007-09-19 11:09:59
317.   fanerman
316 I mean you were right in your spelling in 313 , not in 311 .
2007-09-19 11:10:06
318.   Eric Enders
314 No, I got it right that time. It really does have two Es.
2007-09-19 11:10:15
319.   CajunDodger
My plan for the offseason:

Sign Martin to a 4 year, $30 mil or so deal with options for years 5-6.

Make EVERY effort to get ARod

If no ARod, then concentrate on the bench and sign at least one utility guy, a defensive outfielder, and a decent bench bat

Resign Hendrickson for 1 year (LR for the 'pen where he is obviously most comfortable)

Try to sign at least one SP to a short term deal for insurance against Schmidt/Hull/Houlton injury/ineffectiveness. (Buy out Wolf for $500K, then see if he will return for $4-6 mil.)

Enjoy final year at Vero.

2007-09-19 11:12:01
320.   D4P
Wow. I never knew Wookie was actually Wookiee. I prefer the first spelling. Even though the second is e-zier, the first is easier.
2007-09-19 11:13:14
321.   Kevin Lewis
It all depends on how long the drive is to Anaheim.
2007-09-19 11:13:34
322.   Bob Timmermann
Thanks, but I think I am going to go. A shower has woken me out of my torpor. Anaheim isn't as tough as a drive from the SGV as it would be from the SFV.

This is likely going to be the last baseball game I will see in person this year.

Also, in the complex psyche that is me, I often think I'm sick with a variety of illnesses. I thought I had diabetes earlier this week. I don't. I was feeling hungry all the time and going to the bathroom a lot, because I hadn't been eating much and also drinking a lot of coffee and water. I've also gone through cancer of various organs, including ones that I don't have.

If I stay home because I think I'm sick, I'll just feel worse. So like Ike going to Korea, Bob will go to Anaheim.

2007-09-19 11:14:34
323.   jasonungar07
Did your men deactivate the hyperdrive on the Millennium Falcon?


Ned: Horizontal boosters...!
(Logan barks)
Ned: Alluvial dampers...! Well that's not it.
(Logan barks)
NED: Bring me the hydrospanners!
Logan hurries over to the pit and places the tools on the edge.
NED: I don't know how we're going to get out of this one.

2007-09-19 11:14:45
324.   Paul Scott
316 That's the problem with wikipedia. "...fictional..." - I mean really, who does their fact checking?
2007-09-19 11:16:18
325.   El Lay Dave
323 And a woman plays a key role in taking charge and getting things done. Princess Kim Ng?
2007-09-19 11:17:21
326.   Sam DC
Go Bob Go!
2007-09-19 11:18:28
327.   Bob Timmermann
Lloyd the Bartender told me to go to Anaheim.
2007-09-19 11:19:51
328.   Curtis Lowe
I work right down the street from Anaheim stadium and it's raining right now so if rain cheers you up then a game is a good idea.
2007-09-19 11:20:08
329.   Sam DC
327 All sleep and no baseball makes Bob a dull boy.
2007-09-19 11:20:13
330.   D4P
(Colletti, expressing intention to sign Juan Pierre).

Ng: Matt Kemp is still out there. I don't think it's wise to...

(Ned rushes past her and heads for the telephone).

Ned: (interrupting) No time to discuss this with the committee.

2007-09-19 11:22:04
331.   ToyCannon
There is a chance the drive to the game will do you in.
2007-09-19 11:22:42
332.   Bob Timmermann
Duly noted as I grab the rain jacket.

Hey, I'm sitting in section 237!

(OK, actually it's section 517)

2007-09-19 11:23:17
333.   Paul Scott
{JP hands and arms bound and placed in the carbonite freezing machine.)

Ned: I love you.

JP: I know.

2007-09-19 11:23:49
334.   dzzrtRatt
I don't hate the idea of Lowell, but I don't want Eric to check into the Big Casino, so I'll not mention his name again.

I note the remark someone made that Nomar is a kind of insurance policy that

a)LaRoche will get one more chance and
b)Ned won't spend a lot of money on someone who will definitively block LaRoche.

I just hope LaRoche is who we think he is. Maybe it's unfair, but Martin, Loney, Kemp and Abreu seized their opportunities and made an impression right away that validated our confidence in them. LaRoche has not. It's not too late, but it's also hard to feel extraordinarily optimistic about him at this point.

So where Lowell fits in for me is, if you assume A-Rod doesn't even enter the FA market, do we really feel comfortable with a Nomar/LaRoche combination? Assuming Ned does not, is there a better option than Lowell, or is it a world of Shea Hillenbrands out there? Ned likes those kinds of players immoderately. Lowell is clearly a cut above them.

My final word on the subject til Lowell is signed.

2007-09-19 11:26:18
335.   D4P
Ng: Ned, don't - it's a trap! It's a trap!
2007-09-19 11:26:52
336.   Sam DC
I'm just wondering which one of those guys is going to be traded to the Nationals for Jon Rauch.
2007-09-19 11:27:34
337.   Humma Kavula
335 If this were BTF, the thread would now be over.
2007-09-19 11:27:50
338.   kinbote
334 - "Is it a world of Shea Hillenbrands out there?" has to be the opening number from Dodgers 2007 The Musical.
2007-09-19 11:28:05
339.   dzzrtRatt
Ned might love Pierre, but so do a lot of other GMs. I hope Ned at least "listens to offers."
2007-09-19 11:30:10
340.   Humma Kavula
334 Andy LaRoche has 57 major league at bats. Given his minor league track record, it would be foolish to give up on him at this point. Unless the team gets one of the five best players in baseball. Then all bets are off.
2007-09-19 11:30:13
341.   Paul Scott

Firstly, ARod will almost certainly be on the FA market. The economics of it just don;t work for him staying with the NYY. He has too much to gain by leaving and NYY really cannot afford to keep him.

Secondly, for me at least, yes. Even assuming LaRoche doesn't pan out entirely, if he can't outperform Nomar I'll be very surprised. Given that Nomar is above replacement level and that we are on the hook for his contract either way, our worst case scenario is more more year of below average performance at 3B. Other than ARod or a trade, upgrading at 3B this year does not make economic sense on the margins.

2007-09-19 11:31:26
342.   Kevin Lewis
On a positive note, I am excited about the October baseball we will have this year. It could be really interesting with the teams still vying for playoff spots.
2007-09-19 11:32:29
343.   Kevin Lewis

I had no idea he had so few at bats. Let the kid play the rest of the year. PLEASE!

2007-09-19 11:33:02
344.   dzzrtRatt
338 along with

"Go Rabbit Go," a 50s style number
"Mr. Billingsley, I Presume," sung by a Rex Harrison impersonator
"Play Me Grady," a comic duet/dance number featuring Loney and Kemp
"I Used to be a Tomato," a tragic song sung opera style about days gone by.

2007-09-19 11:34:02
345.   Humma Kavula
344 And the showstopping number, "Ya Gotta Have Depth."
2007-09-19 11:35:12
346.   Icaros
Can the musical end with Frank McCourt erecting his statue of the fans?

What a goon...

2007-09-19 11:35:26
347.   regfairfield
334 Identify the mystery player:
AAA (96) - 423 AB - .323/.407/.621
AAA (97) - 87 AB .379/.436/.701
MLB (97) - 217 AB .217/.276/.332

If you figure out who it is, you'll know it way, way too soon to panic on LaRoche.

2007-09-19 11:36:41
348.   dzzrtRatt
343 I hope Grady plays LaRoche every day he's healthy enough to play. But knowing how baseball people think, I'm sure Grady is not yet conceding the season, and that being the case, I fear LaRoche will not start even once til the Dodgers are eliminated.

I realize LaRoche hasn't had a completely fair shot, but I'm anticipating how Little will look at things this fall. If he's happy with Nomar at third, then you're right, he'll look elsewhere.

The Yankees would be stupid to let A-Rod go. His contract is heavily subsidized by Texas.

2007-09-19 11:36:58
349.   Ricardo
208. Luca Brazzi or Sal Bompansiero division? :P
2007-09-19 11:37:06
350.   D4P
If this were BTF, the thread would now be over

I'm not familiar with BTF, so I don't get it...

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-09-19 11:38:25
351.   Humma Kavula
351 Admiral Akbar was a frequent contributor.
2007-09-19 11:39:50
352.   caseybarker
Have some people forgotten how bad Kemp was last year (first 50 atbats notwithstanding)?
2007-09-19 11:43:26
353.   ToyCannon
The problem isn't ability but a bulging disk at this point.
2007-09-19 11:43:40
354.   Linkmeister
I know I'm skirting the edges of a Rule #5 violation here, but for all the lawyers in the audience, you'll be interested to know that The Great Writ, invalidated last year, remains invalid.

2007-09-19 11:48:51
355.   Sam DC
From the files of "it's not that hard":

Alexandria, Va.: What's the knock on Nook Logan? Every news column that discusses next year cites the need for a center fielder. Why? Nook is a ball hawk, is fast and exciting on the bases, and hits reasonably well for average. Seems to me the only thing he lacks is the long ball but his speed and ability to stir things up on the bases goes a long way toward compensating for that.

Barry Svrluga: Logan's defense actually is substandard. He does a great job going back on the ball and tracking them down in the gaps. But he breaks back on almost every ball hit to him, thus allowing many balls to fall in. His arm is not strong. It is weak.

He also needs to learn to draw more walks. His career batting average is .270. That's fine. Better than anyone would expect, actually. But his career OBP is .317. That's not going to cut it. A guy like that needs to get on base 35 percent of the time -- at least -- to really cause enough problems.

2007-09-19 11:50:24
356.   D4P
In the words of Kiff Kroker:


2007-09-19 11:50:27
357.   ucladodger

Kemp was also only 21 making the jump from A ball. Laroche just turned 24. I still think andy will be a really good player, but hisat bats have been pretty horrific lately.

2007-09-19 11:50:49
358.   ucladodger

I meant AA, not A ball.

2007-09-19 11:52:14
359.   silverwidow
357 - Kemp make the jump from Double-A
2007-09-19 11:52:37
360.   silverwidow
359 - Nevermind...
2007-09-19 11:58:30
361.   fanerman
347 Who is that?
2007-09-19 11:58:43
362.   Eric Enders
347 I really have no idea, but I'll guess Giambi.
2007-09-19 12:00:36
363.   regfairfield
361 Konerko.
2007-09-19 12:01:39
364.   kngoworld
363 Now that is just mean.
2007-09-19 12:03:17
365.   Paul Scott
348 "The Yankees would be stupid to let A-Rod go. His contract is heavily subsidized by Texas."

Yeah, but the Yankees don't get a say in the matter. Or rather they have had their say (publicly at least) and have indicated that if ARod options out of his contract, they cannot afford to retain him. It does not really matter if what happens is ARod opting out or the Yankees signing a high-dollar extension. His contract is effectively over at the end of this season because he 1. has the option to end it and 2. his value has far outstripped his payment under his current contract. So either way you look at it, ARod has to make a lot more money than what he is going to be paid over the next three years. Sure, because of the Texas paying a big chunk, if there is someway to leverage that (but that means sacrificing back some of that value to the Yankees), then he should try and use it. But no matter what else is true, something has to change and I think the Yankees have made it fairly clear that they cannot afford the number Boras is talking about - and frankly Boras' demands look pretty reasonable to me.

Also, when evaluating exactly what it means to have Texas paying for ARod's contract to the Yankees, you have to factor in the luxury Tax the Yankees are paying. What looks like a $12/year saving really is almost half that to the Yankees.

2007-09-19 12:05:45
366.   D4P
and frankly Boras' demands look pretty reasonable to me

Just wait til you see them in gloss

2007-09-19 12:05:51
367.   Bluebleeder87
Really nice write up Jon.
2007-09-19 12:08:18
368.   kngoworld
Why are there not as many sign and trades as compared to other sports?
2007-09-19 12:12:48
369.   ImprobableImpossible
Turning the conversation into Dodgers/Star Wars Thoughts has been a great way to brighten the day!
2007-09-19 12:13:25
370.   regfairfield
368 In theory, they're against the rules since you can't negotiate with another team's player.
2007-09-19 12:14:19
371.   Wilbert Robinson
These are Jeff Ken't first 4 years of pro ball after being drafted in 20th round by the Blue Jays in 89

A- .224 .318 .429 747 Age 21
A+ .277 .360 .465 825 Age 22
AA .256 .379 .418 797 Age 23
MLB .239 .312 .430 742 Age 24

2007-09-19 12:14:44
372.   screwballin
Just reading back after a depressing yesterday. Brock, sorry to hear about the job. To take the edge off the pain, just know that you're loved by people you've never even met. How many of us can say that?

Plus, South Bay is overrated. Come to Huntington Beach while my kids are still school age.

2007-09-19 12:15:15
373.   jasonungar07
369 e-chuta!!
2007-09-19 12:15:55
374.   Wilbert Robinson
371 Also he is the only player in baseball history who's last name is a contraction.
2007-09-19 12:18:42
375.   Marty
Movies I can think of right now that make me tear up:
Field of Dreams (and I always hate myself since I loathe Costner)
To Kill A mockingbird
It's a WonderFull Life
House of Sand and Fog
American Beauty
Sometimes a Great Notion
Bang the Drum Slowly
2007-09-19 12:21:33
376.   D4P
House of Sand and Fog

Painful, painful movie.

2007-09-19 12:22:27
377.   paranoidandroid
For Mr. Brock:

First of all, there are lots of teaching jobs in North LA County. Lots. If you'd consider the desert home for a stretch, there are jobs today. I'd carpool to games with you too!

Secondly, your being down a bit reminds me of a Bukowski poem that said in part:
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lifes they must lead."

Be well.

2007-09-19 12:24:57
378.   Disabled List
A-Rod's situation is going to be heavily influenced by his (and the Yankees) performance in the playoffs. IIRC, he will have 10 days after the end of the World Series to opt out of his contract. If he has a great playoffs and the Yankees win the whole smack, I have no doubt that he'll negotiate an extension. If he has another lousy performance, and the Yanks get busted out early, I can see Cashman succumbing to the NY mediots and letting A-Rod hit the free market.

On the other dominant topic of the day: With all the Star Wars analogies, no one thought to compare Juan Pierre to Jar-Jar Binks? Hendrickson is the closest thing to a Wookiee this team has, and I think we all know what character we can compare David Wells to.

2007-09-19 12:25:07
379.   Wilbert Robinson
371 Why did the Mets trade David Cone who had an ERA+ of 120 at the time for that?
2007-09-19 12:30:05
380.   ImprobableImpossible
How rude.

(actually, awesome)

2007-09-19 12:31:51
381.   screwballin
378 If the Yanks win it all, I could see A-Rod deciding "My job here is done" and moving on. If they come up short, they'll blame him and he'll leave.

Either way, I just get the feeling he's fed up with that situation. Wherever he goes, he'll get paid, so why would he subject himself to more NY abuse?

2007-09-19 12:32:21
382.   LogikReader
I'd bet good money that if the Yanks meet the Angels in the first round, expect them to be wiped out right there and then.

The best thing for the Yankees would be to win that division so they can play the Indians instead. They're only 2.5 back

2007-09-19 12:32:48
383.   bigcpa
378 What if the Yankees lose the ALCS or World Series and AROD hits .280 with 2-3 jacks? You still gotta figure Cashman tries to extend him.
2007-09-19 12:35:50
384.   LogikReader
Holy cow, LAA, CLE, and BOS have virtually the same record!
2007-09-19 12:41:09
385.   KG16
I've been trying to figure out what the Dodgers should do in the off season, but there are just enough question marks out there to make it a tough question.

First, do we know for sure, when Schmidt will be back? If so, can we expect him to be anything near what he was? Ditto question 1 and question 2 for Kuo. Penny, Lowe, Billinsly, Loiaza, Schmidt/Kuo, with Hendrickson, Houlton, Stults getting spot starts and maybe Kershaw coming up in midsummer should be good. If Kuo and Schmidt are unable to go at the start of the season, then getting a starting pitcher is crucial (yet again).

Second, in dealing with third base, Plan A has to be A-Rod; Plan B would be a trade for Cabrerra; Plan C, I suppose would be to give La Roche one more season to win the job.

Kent's possible retirement is also an issue (maybe he'll demand a trade?). If he leaves, Nomar could move to second for the final year of his contract opening up 3B for either LaRoche or an acquisition.

I think looking at trade offers for Pierre is a good idea, particularly if you can get a back of the rotation pitcher or other value for him. The question, of course, is what could we get for Pierre?

Also, the bench is going to need to be cleaned, for the most part.

2007-09-19 12:41:13
386.   Wilbert Robinson
from Inside the Kings. I thought this was interesting:

Jack Johnson spent a team-high 33:32 on the ice and looked good, getting an assist. After the game, he talked about the first NHL game he ever attended. He was 14 years old and it was a Kings game with his bantam hockey team. He was able to go into the Kings locker room after the game and Blake gave him his stick. He's never told Blake this story.

2007-09-19 12:41:32
387.   bigcpa
382 Cleveland is 21-6 in the last month. Sabathia/Carmona are on a roll. I think they are a tougher draw than the LAAA aka Runnyball.
2007-09-19 12:41:41
388.   Disabled List
381 The heat an A-Rod comes and goes, depending on how he's hitting and how the Yankees are playing. Right now he's hot and the Yankees are gonna make the playoffs, so everybody in NY loves him. That could change with a bad series in October, of course, but for now, everybody's copacetic.

I think A-Rod wants to go wherever he'll be paid the most. The Yankees, for those 10 days post-World Series, are in a position to pay him the most because Texas is still eating part of his salary. They can estimate, as best they can, how much A-Rod will earn per year on the open market, then top that amount by however much the Rangers are subsidizing.

And let's not forget that they are still the Yankees, with the deepest pockets in all of baseball. I can't imagine they would have any problem with a $35 million per year contract. Maybe even $40 million.

2007-09-19 12:43:18
389.   GoBears
Jar-jar was taller than Pierre.
2007-09-19 12:44:22
390.   Sam NYC
I would trade Laroche-Elbert-Young for Cabrera. Would Florida do that?
2007-09-19 12:44:25
391.   D4P
I think A-Rod wants to go wherever he'll be paid the most

Yes. He voluntarily chose Scott Boras to be his agent.

2007-09-19 12:44:54
392.   D4P
Jar-jar was taller than Pierre

And less annoying.

2007-09-19 12:45:33
393.   Dane Bramage
Don't know if anyone has posted this before, but I just did a spit take to this, courtesy of Mike Scoscia's Tragic Illness:

2007-09-19 12:45:49
394.   Sam NYC
I'm actually not thrilled with all of Laroche's injury issues. I believe he's a great talent but 22 year olds shouldn't have buldging disks.
2007-09-19 12:47:00
395.   GoBears
Plan C, I suppose would be to give La Roche one more season to win the job.

One more season? More than what? The guy has had 3 weeks worth of plate appearances!

And in answer to the earlier question of what Colletti will do when one of the prospects doesn't pan out immediately, we already know: he'll trade him for Scott Proctor.

2007-09-19 12:48:07
396.   Paul Scott
Getting a starting pitcher is only crucial if you are one of those people that believes a 5th starter must be an average pitcher. Personally, of course, I don't believe a 5th starter is even necessary (or for that matter, a good thing at all), but I am certain the Dodgers will not understand that. Even when saddled with a 5th starter, however, there is no reason why Houlton or Stults could not put up a season long losing record with a 5 or near 5 ERA and not be perfectly acceptable in the event that Schmidt or Kuo was unavailable all season. In both the BP and the starters our pitching has both quality and depth. So much so that we are likely going to be dumping one of our potential 5th starters (Wolf) before even thinking about getting another one. The problem is the offense (primarily) and the defense. Any real money or real moves need to go there.
2007-09-19 12:49:13
397.   Sam NYC
Juan Pierre is worse then Jar Jar Binks. He's like herpes. Just when you thought you'd seen the last of him, he comes back up just when you thought you were going to score.
2007-09-19 12:49:39
398.   KG16
395 - poorly worded, I admit.
2007-09-19 12:50:25
399.   GoBears
393. That's just depressing.
2007-09-19 12:50:44
400.   willhite
My apologies if this has been tossed around already, but if the Angels sign A-Rod, does that make the likelihood of Frank/Ned doing something "out of the ordinary" an even greater possibility?

Let's say the Angels win it all this year and then cap it off by signing A-Rod. What would that do to McCourt, public-opinion wise?

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-09-19 12:54:36
401.   Howard Fox
396 in all threads, I see everyone espouse the need for a good 5th starter...pardon my ignorance, but I am not sure I see a 1st or maybe even a 2nd starter on this team...

all the talk is about filling gaps at 3rd, will Kent stay another year, centerfield, but I personally don't have alot of faith in our starting rotation other than Billingsley...

our bullpen is lights out, but overworked, way overworked, because of our poor starters...

for the most part, our lineup is okay...our major problem is with the starting rotation...imho...

2007-09-19 12:56:08
402.   KG16
396 - I like to have as much starting pitching as possible, if only to guard against injuries. In the last few years we've lost Penny, Kuo, and Schmidt for extended periods of time. We have also almost lost Lowe. On top of that, Loiaza is a question mark, so really, we've got three starting pitchers at the moment. I'd be fine with Penny, Lowe, Billingsly, Loiaza, and Stultz and Houlton splitting time as the 5th starter.

397 - that is harsh, funny, but harsh.

2007-09-19 12:57:15
403.   fanerman
401 You don't trust Brad Penny as at least a 2nd starter?
2007-09-19 12:57:28
404.   silverwidow
Is TBS going to televise EVERY divsion series game?
2007-09-19 13:00:19
405.   Howard Fox
402 Penny is a half a year star, Lowe has seen better days (can a sex life affect performance on the field?), Loaiza is Tomko all over again, who knows with Schmidt...

I say we go with youth and suffer thru the growing pains, rather than going on the free agent market and buying another prospect for our disabled list

2007-09-19 13:01:36
406.   bigcpa
401 Even with Tomko/Hendrickson the rotation is essentially tied for 4th in the NL in ERA with the Mets and D'Backs. I would take the under going into next year with 30+ starts from Bills and hopefully a repaired Schmidt.
2007-09-19 13:02:03
407.   silverwidow
404 - Just found the postseason schedule. Looks like it starts on Wednesday this year, with TBS handling most Div games and TNT broadcasting the others.
2007-09-19 13:02:18
408.   Bob Timmermann
I made it to my seat in Anaheim for the bottom of the first.

I feel much better.

Not a lot of people at the A of Great Size relatively speaking.

2007-09-19 13:02:19
409.   Howard Fox
403 I put Penny behind Billingsley who I think will be great when he learns to consistently throw strikes...

our pitching coach needs to explain to the pitchers, all of them, that a batter with a .300 or better average isn't a great hitter, but rather, someone who makes out 70% of the time

2007-09-19 13:02:25
410.   fanerman
Penny has a 3.59 ERA post all-star break. The Dodgers are 3rd in runs allowed and 9th in runs scored this year (in the NL).
2007-09-19 13:02:39
411.   KG16
400 - the Dodgers front office (read: McCourt and Colletti) do not strike me as being very self-confident, so I would guess if the Angels win the World Series and then sign A-Rod (or make some other blockbuster move), they would feel like they were being pushed into a corner by the "Other Team in the Market" and therefore do something crazy. I just don't know what that crazy thing would be...
2007-09-19 13:05:18
412.   underdog
392/397 - Okay, now that goes too far. Nothing, I repeat, nothing, was ever more annoying than Jar Jar Binks, not even some of the other annoying things in the newer Star Wars movies, and not even Juan Pierre.

Wait, I'm confused by the Ned/Han Solo analogy. I thought the problem was he didn't trust wookies enough to use them.

2007-09-19 13:06:39
413.   Howard Fox
410 my feeling about Penny is that in every game he is one pitch or one call away from blowing up
2007-09-19 13:08:01
414.   Eric Enders
396 "pardon my ignorance, but I am not sure I see a 1st or maybe even a 2nd starter on this team..."

You're not looking hard enough. Look around at the rest of the teams in baseball. The Dodgers are the only team in MLB that has three starters with a 120 ERA+ or better. Basically we're the only team with three #1 starters.

2007-09-19 13:08:04
415.   Humma Kavula
412 Winthrop Paroo is more annoying than Jar-Jar Binks. Winthrop Paroo is the most annoying character in American popular entertainment, mostly because he singlehandedly ruins a piece of work that is otherwise great.

Star Wars I has other problems other than Jar-Jar -- he's just the icing on that particular cake.

Withrop Paroo all the way.

2007-09-19 13:08:04
416.   Bluebleeder87

I envy you some times Bob, hey, if you see Rob tell 'em I'll be right there with 'em rooting for the halos.

2007-09-19 13:08:15
417.   underdog
401 Penny, Billingsley and Lowe are about as solid a 1-2-3 rotation as any team in the league. While they had some bad outings, who hasn't? So, basically, I disagree. Makes the Dodgers missing the playoffs all the more frustrating. If Schmidt comes back healthy and effective, and they figure out a solid 5th starter from among: Stults, Loiaza, McDonald, etc., their rotation should not be a problem next year. The problem will be consistency from offense and balancing the bullpen properly. That's how I see it anyway.
2007-09-19 13:08:59
418.   dzzrtRatt
Moreno has made it pretty clear he won't sign A-Rod. Especially if it's for twice what he's paying an arguably better player, Vlady.

Boras will leverage all he can, but I suspect the "most money for A-Rod" option is still with the Yankees. Boras is good at leveraging the Yankees' big checkbook to get teams to negotiate against themselves, but it's a harder trick to pull on the Yankees themselves.

If I were Boras, I wouldn't be counting on Ned Colletti to play his appointed role in this puppet show. The Mets don't need A-Rod, and really the Sox don't either. The Giants, Dodgers, White Sox or Cardinals would all be good fits, but are any of them willing to part with $30 million/year for the next five years? If it gets to that point, they won't be bidding against the Yankees. They might bid against each other, but they all have limits on what they'll pay.

Boras' best move will be, I think, to get as much out of the Yankees as possible given his momentary leverage, and get on with life.

2007-09-19 13:09:04
419.   jasonungar07
380 Logan-They're using a very primitive dialect. But I do believe they think I am some sort of god.

Ned-Well, why don't you use your divine influence and get us out of this?

Logan-I beg your pardon, General Coletti, but that just wouldn't be proper.

2007-09-19 13:09:28
420.   Eric Enders
413 But shouldn't Penny be judged by his performance, rather than your feelings about him? Performance-wise, he is the second-best pitcher in the National League.
2007-09-19 13:09:48
421.   Bluebleeder87

plus our team ERA is 2nd best in ALL the NL, reading Fox's post seemed like I was reading a typo, it just didn't sound right.

2007-09-19 13:12:43
422.   fanerman
Hasn't Lowe's issues lately been some physical ailment anyway? He's in a contract year next year, too.
2007-09-19 13:12:56
423.   King of the Hobos
Ned needs to avoid the free agent market for starting pitching. The top pitchers are old guys looking for one or two year deals, and only with specific teams (Glavine, Pettitte, Schilling, Rogers). After them, the guy who figures to get the most money and years is Kyle Lohse. If Randy Wolf is willing to come back on a $5 mil deal and is willing to relieve as needed, I wouldn't mind, but otherwise, stay away from free agent starters.

As for Lowell, fortunately Pat Gillick could save Ned. The Phillies have numerous contracts ending (about $25 mil I think), and need a 3B just as bad as the Dodgers do. Not to mention Boston or the Yankees will drive up his price after Arod signs. I think Lowell will want just enough money to convince Ned to stay with Nomar.

2007-09-19 13:13:52
424.   dzzrtRatt
413 which proves that it's hard to shake off a bad reputation, even if it's in fact out of date. Penny has been dominant and unshakeable in about 2/3rds of his starts (anecdotally) and that's about the best you can hope for.

I agree, we have three #1's. So I guess the lack of power is what did the 2007 Dodgers in. And Grady Little's clubhouse politicking with the lineup.

2007-09-19 13:13:56
425.   D4P
Nothing, I repeat, nothing, was ever more annoying than Jar Jar Binks

Meesa just kidding

2007-09-19 13:14:53
426.   willhite

The only equivalent move I can think of would be to give up whatever the Marlins asked for in exchange for Cabrera.

2007-09-19 13:15:39
427.   Bluebleeder87
It's a shame to, A-Rod would really push us over the hump & make the likes of KEMP & Loney that much better, veremos que pasa.
2007-09-19 13:15:41
428.   underdog
Sigh, every once in awhile I get all teary-eyed thinking about how much more powerful the Dodgers would be right now if they'd ended up signing Vlad Guerrero a few years back, when it looked like they had him in the fold and then it all went blooey during the ownership change. Never mind everything else - if Vlad was a Dodger they'd be a world series contender right now imho, as opposed to maybe next year or whenever.
2007-09-19 13:16:30
429.   KG16
426 - thinking it over, it would be that or trading anything for Manny... that's about all I can come up with.
2007-09-19 13:16:46
430.   fanerman
Nothing, I repeat, nothing, was ever more annoying than Jar Jar Binks

I dunno.... you can just fast forward through his scenes and pretend he doesn't exist. And he's only in one 2+ hour movie. Slappy is 162 2+ hour games a year.

2007-09-19 13:18:15
431.   dzzrtRatt
428 But then Jim Tracy might still be manager. He might even be Manager of the Year.

I don't know if the nation is ready for the "let me ask myself a stupid question and then answer it" style of discourse.

2007-09-19 13:18:23
432.   Humma Kavula
430 I'm tellin' ya: Withrop Paroo.

Then Juan Pierre.

Then Jar-Jar.

2007-09-19 13:19:49
433.   bigcpa
Runs/game allowed on the road:

1 Chicago Cubs 3.93
2 LA Dodgers 4.20
3 San Francisco 4.38
4 Arizona 4.40
5 NY Mets 4.58
6 San Diego 4.59
7 Colorado 4.60
8 Atlanta 4.65
9 Philadelphia 5.04
10 Milwaukee 5.17
11 Cincinnati 5.18
12 Washington 5.27
13 Florida 5.31
14 Pittsburgh 5.46
15 St. Louis 5.54
16 Houston 5.64

2007-09-19 13:20:22
434.   fanerman
432 I had never heard of him until today, so as far as I know. It's Slappy. Then Jar-Jar.
2007-09-19 13:20:28
435.   underdog
Maybe the guy who edited a Jar Jar free version of The Phantom Menace could also do a Paroo-free version of The Music Man. Then he could do the same for Pierre and the Dodgers for next season's edition.
2007-09-19 13:20:52
436.   dzzrtRatt
432 What about Joe Morgan?

When Juan Pierre gets an entire website based on how bad he is, then let's talk.

2007-09-19 13:21:29
437.   El Lay Dave
430 At least Pierre has had some good scenes; the main problem is he doesn't do it enough (.330ish OBP). Jar-Jar is like an .000 OBP.
2007-09-19 13:22:10
438.   underdog
Look, maybe Jar Jar Binks could manage this team if Vlad was on it with the rest of the line-up! I don't care!

I need lunch. Is there even a game today? Could someone ping me if there's anything interesting about the game that gives me a reason to watch it? Thanks.

2007-09-19 13:23:07
439.   trainwreck
What is the argument that Vlad is a better player than A-Rod?
2007-09-19 13:23:41
440.   El Lay Dave
436 LMAO!
2007-09-19 13:24:16
441.   El Lay Dave
438 The Dodgers could play spoiler to the Rockies "playoff hopes"?
2007-09-19 13:25:32
442.   King of the Hobos
Justin Ruggiano has been promoted to the majors.
2007-09-19 13:25:35
443.   fanerman
I dunno. Joe Morgan, Jar Jar, Paroo. None of those guys hit that close to home to me. If I pretend they don't exist, they don't really affect my world. I can't pretend Slappy doesn't exist. He's involved with the Dodgers every single day.
2007-09-19 13:32:06
444.   El Lay Dave
The Dodgers 2007 musical (above) is hilarious already! Can't wait for the Rookie Hazing costume production number.
2007-09-19 13:32:58
445.   Jim Hitchcock
Late in the post, but...I gained acceptance after Sundays game, and then grabbed the parrot, some BBQ ribs, hopped in the car and drove to Cave Rock at Lake Tahoe for a late in the day swim.

A perfect end of summer day.

2007-09-19 13:33:04
446.   scareduck
341 - Next year, A-Rod will be a Yankee, on that you can bankee.
2007-09-19 13:33:07
447.   Eric Enders
439 I was wondering the same thing. Basically, there isn't one.
2007-09-19 13:34:01
448.   blue22
Obviously ARod is enough to push Ned's beloved Nomar off of 3rd, but I just don't think Lowell is.

If Ned's fails in an attempt to land ARod, I'm betting Nomar starts at 3rd, and we get 2008's version of Shea Hillenbrand to provide a PVL bat off the bench and insurance for Nomar's continued frigid bat (I'm personally leaning towards Geoff Blum).

How about a LaRoche reunion in Pittsburgh; Andy and Ethier for Jason Bay?

2007-09-19 13:35:58
449.   fanerman
Do we even know if ARod is on Ned's radar somewhere?
2007-09-19 13:37:02
450.   Curtis Lowe
Bob - Sorry if you're too warm I was in a meeting and didn't have time to tell you the weather has cleared up.


Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-09-19 13:37:37
451.   blue22
449 - Maybe he'll try his go-to contract ploy and offer ARod a 3-year deal for $100M.
2007-09-19 13:38:57
452.   LogikReader

That'd be kinda cool, actually.

2007-09-19 13:39:38
453.   blue22
446 - I completely agree, but it will be interesting to see how that comes about. Does Boras have the stones to opt-out of that contract?
2007-09-19 13:39:51
454.   El Lay Dave
447 Obviously ARod plays a far more important defensive position, but Vlad does have an ever-so-slightly higher OBP and Slg&, with a career .324 (.324 !) BA. Sometime I forget what an amazing hitter Vlad is.

[Both play for teams that have won WS shortly before they arrived, but not since. ;) ]

2007-09-19 13:41:34
455.   screwballin
418 You discount the possibility that A-Rod may refuse to even consider returning to NY. Boras is tough, but he still has to follow his clients' wishes.

As wealthy as A-Rod is already, would he really take a few million dollars more if it means years more of NY's intense scrutiny and abuse?

2007-09-19 13:41:50
456.   underdog
444 Can't wait for the part where Ned Flanders takes off his shirt like he did in Oh Streetcar! The Musical.
2007-09-19 13:42:18
457.   blue22
454 - Career eqa's favor Vlad, .315 to .312, but it's the defense that seperates the two. Plus, I think ARod will age better. Vlad walks like he played in the NFL for a decade.
2007-09-19 13:43:16
458.   underdog
439 It can go either way, but they're both fantastic. My point was more that the Dodgers had Vlad in their grasp and then lost him, which is frustrating. Separate from the issue of whether we'd like A-Rod on our team, or how amazing a hitter he is, as well.
2007-09-19 13:45:33
459.   LogikReader
Well, underdog, I can take it a step further. We had Arod in our grasp in the 1993 draft and we instead punted on him and got Driefort.


2007-09-19 13:48:26
460.   underdog
459 Ouch. {Sob!}

Of course, we long ago would have lost him anyway, but would have been nice at least for awhile.

2007-09-19 13:50:31
461.   Icaros
I thought we lost a coin flip or something, so A-Rod got taken before LA had the chance.
2007-09-19 13:51:33
462.   blue22
It was the rule of alternating leagues getting the #1 pick, right? LA lost 99 games, as compared to the M's losing 98, but Seattle had the #1 pick.
2007-09-19 13:52:13
463.   Eric Enders
459 It wasn't quite like that, though you have the outline right.

Seattle had the #1 pick and the Dodgers #2. ARod was unanimously considered the most desirable pick. Seattle being a moribund also-ran which had never posted a winning season, it was believed they might, out of fear of Boras' demands, pass on A-Rod and pick someone else. Boras came out publicly and said that A-Rod wanted to play for the Dodgers and Seattle shouldn't pick him because he probably wouldn't sign. The Mariners called Boras' bluff and it paid off, as they were able to sign him. The Dodgers then picked Dreifort #2 as a consolation prize.

2007-09-19 13:53:51
464.   jasonungar07
I mean the dodgers aren't that stupid Sam Bowie went on to say.......
2007-09-19 13:55:03
465.   jasonungar07
Alex Rodriguez was only seventeen years old when he was drafted in 1993. One year later he made it to the show and two years later he became the third youngest American League batting champion to date.

Why did the Seattle Mariners take such a risk in the 1993 Amateur Draft? Perhaps it was because Rodriguez helped Westminster Christian High School achieve a number one ranking in USA Today while batting .505, slugging nine home runs, and driving in thirty-six runs in only thirty-three games. Rodriguez was also the only high-school aged finalist for the Golden Spikes Award and he stole thirty-five bases in thirty-five attempts during his senior year.

2007-09-19 13:56:54
466.   Disabled List
In retrospect, 1993 was an even lousier year for the Dodgers than 1992. Besides losing out on A-Rod in the draft because of the ridiculous alternating leagues rule, there was also the D4P travesty.

Two future Hall-of-Famers fell through our grasp that year. Imagine where the Dodgers might have been in the late 90s-early 00s with A-Rod, Pedro Martinez and Mike Piazza.

2007-09-19 14:04:00
467.   Wilbert Robinson
Chan Ho wasn't the only one who didn't get the joke.

Jeff was an intense young player unused to failing. His teammates, sensing that he needed to loosen up, decided to play a practical joke on him. Prior to a game in Montreal, they stole his clothes and replaced them with an eye-straining outfit from the collection of Lindsey Nelson, the club's radio and TV broadcaster. Jeff didn't get it. He reacted angrily, alienating his teammates and giving him a league-wide reputation as a crybaby and major league A-hole. For the rest of the year, no one said a word to him, which just deepened his frustration. Isolated and far from home, he was miserable.

2007-09-19 14:04:24
468.   dzzrtRatt
439 My real point was that, the way Moreno would see it, A-Rod isn't worth twice what he pays Vlady, who I think anyone would agree is in the same part of the stratosphere as A-Rod. He's said not interested in giving such a huge percentage of the payroll to one player, no matter how good that player is.

Is McCourt? What would his ROI be?

2007-09-19 14:06:27
469.   Eric Enders
Then there was the 1988 draft, when we had the #5 overall pick and were expected to use it on Robin Ventura, considered the best all-around hitter in the draft. Instead we picked a guy nobody had ever heard of, Bill Bene, who made like the bad version of Nook LaLoosh in the low minors for a few years before getting himself released. A couple of years ago in some draft retrospective I read, Bene was identified as the single worst pick in the history of the amateur draft.

We made up for the Bene debacle, however, by signing Mike Piazza, Eric Karros, Raul Mondesi, and Pedro Martinez all during the following 2-week period.

2007-09-19 14:09:42
470.   ImprobableImpossible
(restraining self from Bill Bene comments)
2007-09-19 14:10:59
471.   dzzrtRatt
467 Lindsey Nelson left the Mets after the '79 season and retired from broadcasting in the mid-80s.

Maybe that's just a quibble. He did have loud jackets.

2007-09-19 14:13:21
472.   StolenMonkey86
Random Stat of the Day:

Range factor, Catcher, All MLB, qualified

1) Russell Martin - 8.30
2) Dioner Navarro - 8.19

2007-09-19 14:16:26
473.   ToyCannon
Bill Bene, was he worse then Colt Griffin?
2007-09-19 14:16:32
474.   Eric Enders
472 Range factor for catchers is 100% nonsense. Because its main component is putouts, it basically measures how many strikeouts your pitching staff has.
2007-09-19 14:17:27
475.   Wilbert Robinson
After Wilton was inked by the Dodgers, Vladimir's job was basically to deliver home-cooked meals to his brothers at the team's baseball academy. He endured the long bus ride each day, secretly hoping the team would sign him. Vladimir was already taller than Wilton, but weighed less than 150 pounds. At the same age, WIlton was ripped. The Dodgers had their eye on Vladimir, but his long, loping strides and ill-defined muscles made the team wonder if he was a carbon copy of Elisier. Even so, Vladimir was told that the team would probably offer him a contract at some point—if only to keep Wilton focused and happy. The Dodgers loved the way Vladimir played, but were concerned about how he impatient he got during practice. When they double-clutched on the paperwork, they lost their shot at him.
2007-09-19 14:17:52
476.   ToyCannon
We would be known as the Mariners, a team that couldn't win with Arod, Griffey, and Randy Johnson.
2007-09-19 14:18:00
477.   Eric Enders
Bill Bene's minor league record

(The easily frightened should probably not look.)

2007-09-19 14:19:15
478.   ToyCannon
This went quickly from a fun thread to a depressing one. Might as well get the Clemente story out of the way.
2007-09-19 14:20:07
479.   D4P

Good: 8.53 K/9

Bad: 9.89 BB/9

2007-09-19 14:20:26
480.   ToyCannon
I D4P Wilton Guerrero, the JP of his time.
2007-09-19 14:21:17
481.   fanerman
I didn't realize D4P is a verb.
2007-09-19 14:21:23
482.   Eric Enders
Of all the great Bill Bene seasons, 1990 is probably my favorite.

1-10, 6.99 ERA
57.7 innings, 96 walks, 34 strikeouts
23 wild pitches
2.56 WHIP
15.25 walks per nine innings

2007-09-19 14:21:55
483.   Wilbert Robinson
478 Sorry wait here's this!

2007-09-19 14:22:50
484.   CajunDodger
I don't know much about this subject, but if that is the case, then how can the catcher for one of the worst pitching staffs in baseball be in second place and not, say, Varitek or Victor Martinez?
2007-09-19 14:22:55
485.   Bluebleeder87

TC can a test to you how my eyes light up when I see his #'s.

2007-09-19 14:24:45
486.   Eric Enders
484 It doesn't measure how good your pitching staff is, just how many strikeouts they have. The Tampa Bay staff leads the AL in strikeouts.
2007-09-19 14:25:09
487.   blue22
484 - Tampa is 2nd in the bigs in pitcher strikeouts, to the Cubs. LA is 3rd.
2007-09-19 14:27:29
488.   Nagman
I remember having the Bill Bene pre-rookie baseball card, some sort of hot prospect themed card. I didn't know who he was, and never found out.
2007-09-19 14:28:10
489.   ToyCannon
Greg Miller:
AAA 28 IP / 46 Walks
AA 43 IP / 48 Walks

Not Bill Bene territory but still awful for a guy who not long ago was the best pitcher in the organization.

2007-09-19 14:33:44
490.   Daniel Zappala
I know Moreno has said he won't sign A-Rod to a huge contract out of deference to Vlad. I still say the Angels are the most likely team to sign him if he doesn't go back to the Yankees. The Angels are under huge pressure to get a big bat and have very few pressing needs otherwise. They came up short after trying everything last year, and I don't think they'll let money stand between them and A-Rod.
2007-09-19 14:35:02
491.   StolenMonkey86
474 - that's true, but I will say I had no idea that Tampa Bay was 2nd in the majors in K/9 (LA is 3rd).
2007-09-19 14:35:08
492.   Eric Enders
489 It's too early to give up on him, I think; Miller's had one year like that, Bene had 10.
2007-09-19 14:37:18
493.   ToyCannon
Hope springs eternal for me and Mr. Miller.
2007-09-19 14:38:46
494.   Jon Weisman
More on my favorite new statistic.

What do you think is the fewest pitches thrown by a winning starting pitcher this decade?

2007-09-19 14:38:54
495.   underdog
Bene really was the worst round 1 pick of all time, or at least the worst Dodgers' worst. He was totally Nook LaLoosh, except he never found a Susan Sarandon who could teach him to breathe through his eyelids and a Crash Davis who could calm him down, and basically sucked. Who was the scouting genius responsible for that travesty? At least Dreifort had a world of talent and contributed at times in the majors; was just sidetracked by injuries. Bene was terrible.
2007-09-19 14:39:05
496.   ToyCannon
Wait until Wade Davis and McGee join Kazmir and Shields in 2009. They should lead the league in K's.
2007-09-19 14:39:36
497.   Eric Enders
494 Edgar Gonzalez?
2007-09-19 14:39:41
498.   willhite
Would we be willing to trade the following for A-Rod?

Wolf, Tomko, LuGo, Betemit, Hendrickson, Brady Clark, Olmedo, Odallis, Gagne and Mueller.

All of those guys will probably be off the payroll next year (not sure about Mueller) and if so, that adds up to about $40 mil.

Assuming that we don't re-sign Furcal for '09 and Kent retires after next year, between those two and Nomar, another $30 mil comes off after next year.

Unless McCourt signs some expensive players over the next couple of years he is going to be making a LOT of money. The kids should be very exciting (lots of sellouts) and very inexpensive.

2007-09-19 14:39:48
499.   underdog
495 - one "worst" above.

493 Toy = McCabe?

2007-09-19 14:39:51
500.   ToyCannon
And David Price
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2007-09-19 14:40:07
501.   StolenMonkey86
490 - I wouldn't object to signing A-Rod, but would Colletti do it? I seem to imagine him signing Mike Lowell to a 4 year deal instead for some reason.
2007-09-19 14:42:20
502.   ToyCannon
Nice, how about most pitches?
2007-09-19 14:42:38
503.   CajunDodger

Interesting...Did not know that.

2007-09-19 14:43:56
504.   Wilbert Robinson
This headline just made me do a spit take.

Bonds: Man who bought record-breaking home run ball is an 'idiot'

2007-09-19 14:45:17
505.   ToyCannon
If Ned signed ARod there would be no walkup sales because every game would be soldout once tickets went on sale.

Arod would own this town.
2007-09-19 14:45:44
506.   StolenMonkey86
495 - I think Steve Chilcott might have been a slightly worse pick
2007-09-19 14:46:07
507.   fanerman
505 And the team would be improved, too.
2007-09-19 14:46:20
508.   Humma Kavula
501 That was a major topic of discussion this morning. Starting at somewhere around post 200.
2007-09-19 14:46:31
509.   Eric Enders
502 Walter Alston, taskmaster.
2007-09-19 14:46:51
510.   ToyCannon
Danny Goodwin twice might have something to say about it.
2007-09-19 14:47:15
511.   Humma Kavula
505 And Jamie McCourt would be saying, "See! 4 million! Who's laughing now?!"
2007-09-19 14:48:31
512.   Sushirabbit
Will we be done paying Odalis next year?
2007-09-19 14:48:52
513.   ToyCannon
Wow, I can understand Stan,Sandy, and Don, but to see Orel in 1989 throwing 169 pitches is shocking to me. I was here and I don't remember him getting slagged like that.
2007-09-19 14:48:54
514.   Eric Enders
506 , 510 Those were universally highly-regarded guys who just happened not to work out. It happens. Bene was a different animal -- a pick that immediately caused everyone else in baseball to say "what the heck were they thinking?"
2007-09-19 14:48:57
515.   CajunDodger
And the only ones we will have to replace on that list is Wolf (though his salary is canceled out by Loaiza's), Hendy, and the Tomato. The Dodgers have money to spend, and they will spend it...

on Lowell and/or Torii Hunter.

2007-09-19 14:49:41
516.   Jon Weisman
502 -
2007-09-19 14:49:59
517.   Bluebleeder87


2007-09-19 14:50:24
518.   ToyCannon
Exactly, just how important is that 4 millon number to the McCourts. If it is important then Arod is the ticket.
Cabrera is great but he won't be a ticket seller like Arod.
2007-09-19 14:51:34
519.   trainwreck
I think the Red Sox will keep Lowell.

I think we make an offer for A-Rod just do not think we will beat out Yanks or Tigers.

2007-09-19 14:53:23
520.   ToyCannon
I like it when someone takes DT back in time. Maybe Jon could do that for fun during this boring winter to come.
2007-09-19 14:53:27
521.   Eric Enders
I think Ned will definitely make a courtesy offer to A-Rod for CYA reasons, so he can face reporters with that hangdog look and say "Hey, at least we tried." Whether he makes him a legitimate offer is another question, and one we may never know the answer to.
2007-09-19 14:53:55
522.   StolenMonkey86
Personally, I'd like to see ARod so Colletti could trade off Kent to someone who needs a 1b/dh, or maybe the Astros again if he really wants to play 2nd. It seems like they'll put the kids anywhere in the lineup but the cleanup spot.
2007-09-19 14:54:21
523.   ToyCannon
509 & 516
2007-09-19 14:54:50
524.   blue22
519 - Or the Sox get ARod, the Yanks go with Betemit, and LA gets Lowell. Yuck.
2007-09-19 14:55:27
525.   Jon Weisman
520 - I wish the winter would actually be boring. Usually, it doesn't end up that way.
2007-09-19 14:56:14
526.   fanerman
522 I think on my list of "gripes with Jeff Kent," batting cleanup everyday is pretty low on the list.
2007-09-19 14:57:38
527.   trainwreck
The Red Sox have a good third base prospect, Lars Anderson, so I think they would sign Lowell to a short deal and wait for Anderson. I do not think they go after A-Rod hard.
2007-09-19 14:59:24
528.   Wilbert Robinson
Lowell is refusing to accept a short deal.
2007-09-19 14:59:36
529.   GMac In The 909
470 What? He's just dancing.
2007-09-19 14:59:50
530.   blue22
Teams you could conceivably picture ARod playing for next year:

White Sox
Mets (?)

I think that's enough potential that Boras opts out, which will then show whether Cashman is bluffing or not.

2007-09-19 15:00:14
531.   atg12
Hey guys, I need some help. I write some comedy song stuff for the big show w/ Steve Mason and John Ireland at espn radio now and then, and I just got a call from them. They wanted me to do a song about "the day the season died" to the tune of "American Pie."

They weren't able to get a hold of me until just now, so the producer wrote some lyrics and want me to sing it. I tried explaining that I write funny stuff and the singing is just secondary, but he was insistent. I just got the lyrics and have about an hour to, um, fix them. I didn't see the game yesterday/night so I'd appreciate any feedback. Here are the lyrics he sent me, which is what I have to work with so far:


A long, long time ago…

I can still remember

How the Dodgers used to make me smile…

And I knew if they had a chance

That they would give back to the fans

And, maybe, we'd be happy for awhile…

But Tuesday made me shiver

With every Colorado hitter…

Closer, Saito on the mound

Grady needs one more out…

I can't remember if I cried

When I saw Todd Helton's home run stride…

All I wanted was to run and hide…


So bye-bye POST-SEASON time…

Did we think Ned Colletti

Would have been just fine?

Some of his moves did not really shine…

Should he really have given Nomar 1 more try?

"This'll be the day the Dodgers die."

Thanks guys!!

p.s. I hope this isn't looked at as sacrilege, I was just as crushed about this past week as anyone. But the show must go on...

2007-09-19 15:00:34
532.   Eric Enders
I doubt that any team, particularly the Dodgers and Red Sox, would use the presence of a prospect as a reason not to go after A-Rod.
2007-09-19 15:00:56
533.   willhite
"And the only ones we will have to replace on that list is Wolf (though his salary is canceled out by Loaiza's), Hendy, and the Tomato. The Dodgers have money to spend, and they will spend it...

on Lowell and/or Torii Hunter."

How do you see Hunter and JP playing center field simultaneously?

2007-09-19 15:01:07
534.   Humma Kavula
527 Maybe they can trade Lars Anderson for Jefs Bagwell.
2007-09-19 15:01:19
535.   ToyCannon
Lars Anderson is 1st/DH who has never played 3b. He'll be lucky to be a 1st baseman.
2007-09-19 15:01:51
536.   Jon Weisman
530 - Mets? A-Rod to first base?
2007-09-19 15:02:03
537.   Eric Enders
Still laughing at 534 .
2007-09-19 15:02:24
538.   trainwreck
The Sox can also stick "The Greek God of Walks" at third too.
2007-09-19 15:03:54
539.   ToyCannon
Reyes to 2nd?

How about that infield:

2007-09-19 15:04:16
540.   fanerman
533 They'll stick JP in left, making him even less valuable than he is already.
2007-09-19 15:05:12
541.   blue22
536 - Didn't think so, hence the (?), but they have the money and it's difficult to exclude Minaya from this type of conversation. But I had heard about Reyes to 2nd to make room at short. Total longshot though.
2007-09-19 15:05:44
542.   eusmus
536 Wright has said he would move to 2B for A-Rod.
2007-09-19 15:06:33
543.   DodgerBakers
I like the idea of ARod here as much as the next guy, but this article from Hardball Times tempered my enthusiasm.

ARod will probably go for $30-$35M I don't think Boras will accept anything less. Is it worth it? Or should we/could we save our pennies this year to get Santana next year?

I guess part of that depends on the health of LaRoche. In any case, I hope this is the end of the Shea-Hey Kid in a Dodger uniform.

2007-09-19 15:07:00
544.   trainwreck
I must be confusing Lars Anderson with another prospect from his draft class.
2007-09-19 15:07:10
545.   Eric Enders
Any team that moves Jose Reyes off shortstop deserves all the hearbreak and misery that's coming to it.
2007-09-19 15:07:14
546.   ToyCannon
They could trade us Wright to make room for him:)
2007-09-19 15:08:05
547.   Humma Kavula
531 Hmm.

So, bye-bye, post-season time,
Ned Colletti's proven vetties
Never quite hit their prime
Benching Kemp -- now that was a crime
Next year will be much more sublime
Next year will be much more sublime

2007-09-19 15:08:50
548.   Eric Enders
I promise I won't complain about Ned Colletti ever again if next year's lineup is:

C Martin
1B Loney
2B Kent
3B LaRoche
SS A-Rod
LF Ethier
CF Furcal
RF Kemp

2007-09-19 15:09:38
549.   Jon Weisman
548 - I don't think I'm gonna have to hold you to that.
2007-09-19 15:10:17
550.   fanerman
548 That's the 2008 Line-Up Holy Grail.
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2007-09-19 15:11:35
551.   fanerman
550 Actually that one deserves a ™. The 2008 Lineup Holy Grail™. That's better.
2007-09-19 15:12:21
552.   atg12
Brilliant. I love the internal rhyme. Trying to get DePodesta in there somewhere.
2007-09-19 15:12:29
553.   Jon Weisman
So, every now and then I get invited to be someone's connection on LinkedIn. Does anyone actually network using LinkedIn, or is it just a means to say hi to someone once?
2007-09-19 15:14:04
554.   underdog
No one wants to help 531 out? I think the lyrics as is aren't too bad so far. Of course the real song goes on longer than the baseball season seems to.
I feel like the last paragraph needs another run through but can' come up with anything better...
2007-09-19 15:15:23
555.   underdog
Ah yes, I like 547's take. Works for me.

553 I'm beginning to wonder, too. I basically use it as a way to feel closer to people I've lost touch with who are obviously looking for work, even if I can't help them. It seems like a waste, for the most part.

2007-09-19 15:15:53
556.   Eric Enders
548 is better expressed in batting order form:

1. Furcal SS
2. Martin C
3. A-Rod SS
4. Loney 1B
5. Kent 2B
6. Kemp RF
7. Ethier LF
8. LaRoche 3B

2007-09-19 15:16:10
557.   Eric Enders
Except pretend those positions were correct.
2007-09-19 15:16:11
558.   blue22
553 - It's all about Facebook these days.
2007-09-19 15:17:05
559.   ToyCannon
Bob should be on his way home.
2007-09-19 15:17:31
560.   ImprobableImpossible
Shhh. Wrong one. Oops.
2007-09-19 15:23:27
561.   King of the Hobos
Justin Ruggiano made his big league debut today. He was a pinch runner, and didn't do anything but possibly annoy KRod for the duration of Navarro's strikeout to end the game.
2007-09-19 15:23:34
562.   silverwidow
What if A-Rod goes back to Seattle? Nintendo has a lot of money...
2007-09-19 15:25:58
563.   trainwreck
As much as A-Rod wants money, I still think he will want to go to a franchise he expects will win.
2007-09-19 15:26:18
564.   willhite
How about this scenario?

Mark Cuban buys the Cubs and reunites A-Rod with Lou.

2007-09-19 15:26:27
565.   blue22
562 - Seattle (as a city) despises ARod. Although, I just read something about Bavasi and McClaren being possibly replaced by Jocketty and LaRussa. Maybe that's how they'd put their stamp on the franchise.
2007-09-19 15:28:22
566.   Howard Fox
556 I think you have next year's lineup correct with the exception of SS, 3B, CF, and LF...other than that, good call...
2007-09-19 15:28:49
567.   GMac In The 909
560 You're so cute, and don't you know it.

564 That sounds like the winning ticket.

2007-09-19 15:29:21
568.   Howard Fox
564 that ranks right up there with Bush announcing our boys are coming home from Iraq
2007-09-19 15:30:02
569.   Nagman
553 I am in a technical profession and do have a LinkedIn profile and a handful of "connections". I haven't had a need to actually network, which would pretty much be only if I needed a job, but the quality of the connections I do have seems to be very high. I'd definitely use it if the need ever arises.

From my exposure to it, LinkedIn does not seem like a social tool at all.

2007-09-19 15:32:51
570.   D4P
that ranks right up there with Bush announcing our boys are coming home from Iraq

Your last name is ironic.

2007-09-19 15:33:44
571.   Howard Fox
570 rhymes with sarcastic
2007-09-19 15:33:53
572.   blue22
569 - I am as well, and I use LinkedIn to jog my memory when I run into someone, of how I've known that person in the past. There is a tremendous amount of turnover in my industry, and it's hard to remember how/where you knew someone from 3 years ago.
2007-09-19 15:41:09
573.   MC Safety
Ahhh life is good. I just received a text message from my girlfriend reading Dodgers on tonight at 8:30 whoo hoo! And yes I live in California. I dont know whether to laugh or cry. Can we switch to Laughing/Crying movie thoughts for a moment? Im taking suggestions.
2007-09-19 15:51:45
574.   LogikReader
You know, if the asking price was 30-35 per year, I don't see how that would hold NedCo back (in theory).

If there is a chance to sign Arod and we get some leftovers, I cannot wait to hear the excuses from the front office.

2007-09-19 15:52:30
575.   LogikReader
That closes the book on Arod for today. I'll wait until November to resume my discussion.
2007-09-19 15:53:36
576.   trainwreck
I would offer A-Rod a 5 year deal in the 33-35 million range.
2007-09-19 15:53:50
577.   trainwreck
Per year, obviously.
2007-09-19 15:54:17
578.   Ricardo
What about Furcal? Do you think that Ned will give him a contract extension? If he wants to keep Rafael, that would be a good moment because I believe he will have a much better season in 2008 and it will be more expensive to sign him.But probably, his agent won´t let it happen.
Furcal is a good player but I wouldn´t be mad if they trade him or decide to let him go because of Hu.
2007-09-19 15:54:54
579.   D4P
I would offer A-Rod a 5 year deal in the 33-35 million range

If a person can't live on $7 million a year, they need to reexamine their lifestyle and make some changes.

2007-09-19 15:55:59
580.   Humma Kavula
578 I think waiting a year to see if

1) Furcal comes back healthy (I think he will) and
2) Hu is for real

would be prudent.

2007-09-19 15:56:43
581.   regfairfield
574 It would give us a higher payroll than we've ever had. McCourt doesn't have infinite money, though no one really knows where the line is.

576 I'm thinking it will take 200 million, bare minimum to get him.

2007-09-19 15:59:28
582.   trainwreck
Probably, but I would not be comfortable offering a guy 30 or over a 7 or 8 year deal. Even A-Rod.
2007-09-19 16:00:40
583.   Bluebleeder87
ARod will probably go for $30-$35M I don't think Boras will accept anything less. Is it worth it? Or should we/could we save our pennies this year to get Santana next year?

Ned Colletti from what I've seen isn't patient/doesn't see things that way (see Pierre) he needed a CF & by gollie he was gonna have one THAT YEAR, forget that there was a better class in '08. I'm hoping he changes his form of thought in the future but I don't know if he will.

2007-09-19 16:01:11
584.   regfairfield
578 I have no problem letting Furcal walk next year and giving Hu a shot in 2009 if he has another good year. What I don't want to do is dump Furcal now and give Hu the job since, best case scenario, Hu is just as good as Furcal, worst case, Hu posts a .300 on base percentage. Six walks in AAA will make me dubious of any prospect.
2007-09-19 16:03:27
585.   Ricardo
580. I agree. And it wouldn´t be good to trade Furcal this winter because with Juan Pierre as the center fielder, Furcal´s arm will be missed if he´s gone.
2007-09-19 16:04:00
586.   hernari
per ITD

Pierre, CF

Kemp, RF

Loney, 1B

Kent, 2B

Gonzo, LF

Martin, C

Nomar, 3B

Abreu SS,

Penny, P

2007-09-19 16:04:20
587.   D4P
Six walks in AAA will make me dubious of any prospect


2007-09-19 16:05:29
588.   D4P
What kind of manager thinks that Pierre and Kemp are both #2 hitters...?
2007-09-19 16:06:28
589.   trainwreck
Interesting to see Kemp at the 2 spot.
2007-09-19 16:06:50
590.   regfairfield
588 The two fastest guys hit 1-2.
2007-09-19 16:07:08
591.   Kevin Lewis
With all this money talk and the upgrades coming to the stadium, can we expect higher prices for tickets and parking at $20?
2007-09-19 16:08:29
592.   trainwreck
Dodger Tony has got me paranoid about Ned firing Grady and bringing in Dusty Baker. I could totally see him doing that.

So crazy Grady can do what he wants.

2007-09-19 16:09:01
593.   trainwreck
Don't ticket prices go up every year?
2007-09-19 16:09:20
594.   Bumsrap
1. Martin C
2. Kemp CF
3. Loney 1B
4. A-Rod SS
5. Francoeur RF
6. Kent/Abreu/Dewitt 2B
7. Ian Stewart 3B
8. Abreu/Young LF

Furcal(+-) for Francoeur(+-)
Ethier (+-) for Stewart (+-)
Pierre (+-) for ?

2007-09-19 16:09:38
595.   Black and Blue
I was talking to a friend from Houston the other day and he insisted the Dodgers would sign ARod - they have the money, they have the market, etc etc. Which is neither here nor there really except it got me wondering about what amount of ARod's contract he (ARod) would essentially be bringing in by simply being AROD. What I mean is if you pay ARod $30mill a year does he bring in $10mill (or whatever amount) himself in ticket sales, merchandise, other sources of revenue? Do franchise economics even work like that?
2007-09-19 16:09:54
596.   Jon Weisman
I'm impressed with the 600 comments today. I thought it would be a ghost town after yesterday's cliffdive.
2007-09-19 16:09:54
597.   fanerman
592 My mother taught me that some things should not even be thought, much less said.
2007-09-19 16:09:57
598.   blue22
591 - To see ARod, heck yeah I'd pay an extra ten bucks for parking (assuming ARod isn't playing for the visiting Giants)! For Mike Lowell, not so much.
2007-09-19 16:11:10
599.   Bumsrap
I have always thought that Kemp should hit second until he has more experience. He can do more with protection than other players can do.
2007-09-19 16:11:23
600.   fanerman
596 Misery loves company.
Show/Hide Comments 601-650
2007-09-19 16:11:51
601.   D4P
The two fastest guys hit 1-2

Ah. #2 runners.

2007-09-19 16:11:58
602.   fanerman
Not that I'm that miserable.
2007-09-19 16:12:15
603.   ImprobableImpossible
There's typically a family gathering after a funeral.
2007-09-19 16:12:32
604.   Bluebleeder87
this lineup kind of PO's me, if only Grady would let our little stud Hu play SS today, oh well.
2007-09-19 16:12:34
605.   blue22
592 - Ned firing Grady and bringing in Dusty Baker.

Is this where Lasorda's presence might actually help? Would Dusty come back to the Dodgers with Lasorda still hanging around the office, (doing whatever it is Tommy does these days)?

2007-09-19 16:13:53
606.   eusmus
594 ... why would you replace Andy LaRoche with an inferior prospect?
2007-09-19 16:14:05
607.   regfairfield
594 Stewart is pretty close to being a non prospect. Colorado Springs is a launching pad, and on the road he's only hitting .255/.325/.375. Even his home numbers are boosted by a .411 BABIP. Only the fact that he's only 22 makes him remotely intriguing. LaRoche is a far, far better prospect.
2007-09-19 16:14:32
608.   Bumsrap
Tommy would be sleeping in the corner of Dusty's office under a picture of Frank Sinatra.
2007-09-19 16:14:45
609.   Humma Kavula
598 I'll go further:

As I've mentioned, Spawn of Kavula is arriving in November. We're already starting to think about next year: to renew or not renew the season tickets? After all, a ballpark is one of the few places one can take a newborn. On the other hand, we'll have a newborn.

I'll say this: If the Dodgers sign Mike Lowell, and raise ticket prices, I'm out. It'll be me and lovely bride and spawn and Vin on the television.

2007-09-19 16:15:07
610.   trainwreck
I think Dusty would take any MLB managerial job he could get.
2007-09-19 16:15:40
611.   Bumsrap
606, 607,--I have never been a fan of LaRoche.
2007-09-19 16:16:06
612.   Bluebleeder87
If we got A-Rod (Cabrera isn't available) I'd pay top dollar for Dodger Ticks! I'd probably save my pennies & by Season ticks.
2007-09-19 16:17:38
613.   Kevin Lewis

I don't understand why Ramon got the start in the second game over Hu.

593 I can be hopeful that they won't.

2007-09-19 16:17:59
614.   Michael Green
596 ... Jon, finally able to use the computer. I always think of a wise manager who said that if you win enough games in April and May, you don't need to worry that much about winning in September. So, yesterday was terrible. But pick any blown game earlier in the year--a dumb error, dumb baserunning, questionable managing--and you could substitute them. Meaning yesterday was just another day.

Which it wasn't. But if the Dodgers bounce back from this, we can still win.

As to canning Grady, I think it comes down to this: does he cost them more games than he helps them win? It seems to me that other managers--the volatile Pinella, the egomaniacal LaRussa, the veteran-loving Baker--might not have the team playing as well as Little has had them play, while their strategy on the field might be better and win a couple of extra games. I think it really does balance out. And we should be glad we did this well. Anybody remember Jason Schmidt? Randy Wolf? Other injured players? Yes, those problems happen to everyone, but if you put them in the equation, we might already have clinched.

Now to another point, since I'm on a roll. If I were Josh Rawitch, I wouldn't have called the guy on KFWB because I can't help but look silly. And if I were Bill Plaschke, I wouldn't have done a column because I wouldn't have known it happened, since my nose would have been up Lasorda's butt and I wouldn't have noticed anything else.

2007-09-19 16:18:10
615.   Ricardo
Imagine if Lowell signs with the Dodgers and retires before the end of his contract and like another former Red Sox 3rd baseman, he becomes the batting coach.
Will the Dodgers keep Mueller?
2007-09-19 16:18:54
616.   regfairfield
611 I know, but still, trading something of value for Ian Stewart is a bad idea.
2007-09-19 16:18:57
617.   Robert Fiore
When I read these comments about making an offer for Alex Rodriguez all I can think of is Lorne Michaels' offer to reunite the Beatles ("You can pay Ringo less if you like . . .").
2007-09-19 16:19:58
618.   blue22
615 - Will the Dodgers keep Mueller?

Wouldn't it be Nomar's turn to be hitting coach by then?

2007-09-19 16:20:20
619.   trainwreck
If we sign another old guy to play 3rd base, I am going to cry.
2007-09-19 16:22:29
620.   Ricardo
618. Yes, and in 2009 it will be Lowell!:P To be the Dodgers hitting coach you have:
1) to be a former a Red Sox,
2) to be a 3rd baseman.
2007-09-19 16:23:42
621.   blue22
619 - I don't think it's a matter of "if" but "which" old guy we sign to play third. I'm hoping it's a cheap, left-handed hitter signed to a one-year deal.
2007-09-19 16:24:38
622.   Bill Crain

Protection is a myth, unless you're mostly interested in the IBB stat.

2007-09-19 16:24:46
623.   King of the Hobos
I don't mind the lineup but I still don't understand, what's the aversion to playing Hu? Granted, Abreu will probably be on the big league team next year as a utility player/Kent's defensive replacement, whereas Hu is more on an injury replacement for Furcal. Do we have to wait until we're statistically done to give Hu the start?
2007-09-19 16:27:45
624.   underdog
614 Stop being so rational, Michael! ;-)

As for Rawitch, I think he had no choice but to call in. It's his job, to try to counter negative press and respond to things he thinks are not factual.

2007-09-19 16:27:48
625.   Kevin Lewis

That is why I started walking into the stadium. I was pissed off enough when they raised parking for the playoffs, but to have it at $15 for the whole year, I could not swallow that one.

I wish I could afford season tickets, but I will stick with my 12 pack and 5-7 random games on top of that.

2007-09-19 16:27:57
626.   GMac In The 909
614 Were Tracy and DePo allowed to use injuries as an excuse to save their jobs?

Point is, the Dodgers had talent they didn't use, injuries or not. And those decisions were made by Grady and Ned.

2007-09-19 16:30:14
627.   Kevin Lewis
Oh, and amazingly I have watched all but 5 games on tv, but that will end when I ditch the DISH
2007-09-19 16:30:16
628.   King of the Hobos
619 By "old guy," do you mean an old guy not named Alex Rodriguez? Mike Lowell is only a year older than Arod, and Pedro Feliz is the same age!
2007-09-19 16:30:44
629.   Bluebleeder87

kind of like defensive #'s?? there there but can you really trust them, #'s say Pierre is a good CF, I wouldn't have touched that guy with a TEN FOOT POLE if I wear a G.M.

2007-09-19 16:31:52
630.   fanerman
629 What numbers say Pierre is a good CF?
2007-09-19 16:32:15
631.   Eric Enders
Hu looks like a batboy. Maybe Grady thinks he actually is the batboy.
2007-09-19 16:35:12
632.   Bill Crain
Defensive value exists; it's just hard to measure.

Protection doesn't exist. Bill James established that in the 80's.

2007-09-19 16:35:14
633.   regfairfield
629 Most numbers have Pierre as an average CF. I think he's a terrible fielder, but his speed makes up for most of his bad decisions.

614 Even then 2005 was a way more catastrophic year for injuries, the only truly debilitating injury we had this year was Schmidt, and almost every team loses one great player for a good period of time.

2007-09-19 16:35:30
634.   underdog
630 Probably his fielding percentage is decent - which is obviously deceptive since it doesn't take into account balls he doesn't find, so he can't get a glove on them, as well as noodle-armed throwing. But you have to be researching it myopically to come out of it thinking he's a great defensive CFer. (In fairness to him, though, except for his continual lack of an arm, he's played better out there in the second half, just as he's hit better. Doesn't change the fact that he's not a great CFer.)
2007-09-19 16:36:49
635.   Bluebleeder87

somebody posted some Pierre defensive #'s a while back saying he was good or league average (I can't remember) but I think it's well understood not to trust those #'s right.

2007-09-19 16:37:38
636.   regfairfield
To Pierre's credit, UZR, probably the best metric out there, has him as the 37th best fielder in baseball from 2003-2007.
2007-09-19 16:38:42
637.   Humma Kavula
Only 659 more games of Juan Pierre!
2007-09-19 16:38:48
638.   Bluebleeder87
Protection doesn't exist. Bill James established that in the 80's.

oh o.k. I didn't realize that, thanks.

2007-09-19 16:38:53
639.   regfairfield
635 I have no problem believing the guy is at least average. He can cover a ton of ground when he decides to run the right way, he just looks really ugly a lot of the time.
2007-09-19 16:40:04
640.   Bluebleeder87

He looks like he can be my little bro, with A SICK GLOVE & FLASHES OF POWER.

2007-09-19 16:40:49
641.   regfairfield
Whoops, that's cumulative numbers, boosted by the fact that Pierre plays all the time. Once you turn it into a rate stat, he becomes slightly above average.
2007-09-19 16:40:59
642.   bhsportsguy
Sam DC - Nationals doing their part as spoilers, 2-1 Nats in the 2nd over the Mets.
2007-09-19 16:42:23
643.   Humma Kavula
Mike's Rants has it right -- if the Mets fail to make the playoffs and the Phillies become champs of the NL East, it's 1964 in reverse.
2007-09-19 16:44:02
644.   Eric Enders
I'll buy that Pierre is average as far as catching the ball goes. But most of the defensive metrics fail to account for an outfielder's throwing arm, which is Pierre's biggest weakness and has cost the Dodgers god knows how many extra bases this year.
2007-09-19 16:45:04
645.   El Lay Dave
596 ...cliffdive...

That unfortunately ended splattered on the rocks instead of enveloped in the inviting water.

2007-09-19 16:46:09
646.   regfairfield
And I screwed up again, once you convert UZR to a rate stat, Pierre drops from 37th to 38th.
2007-09-19 16:46:17
647.   trainwreck
A-Rod is like Minotaur II. He does not exist until he is on our team.
2007-09-19 16:47:28
648.   regfairfield
644 Quite true, I'm not sure if UZR includes arm stats, but if you lop off the ~5 runs he costs a team a year with his arm he falls to a little less than 2 runs above average a year.
2007-09-19 16:47:45
649.   Bluebleeder87
Pierre's arm ALONE would have scared me off from signing him, plus like regfairfield said he looks pretty crummy fielding CF but he gets the job done I guess.
2007-09-19 16:48:50
650.   Bill Crain

The really interesting question is: Who bats in the 5 hole? That's usually treated as an RBI spot, but the 5 hitter is statistically most likely to lead off the 2nd inning.

Historically, the 1st inning produces the most runs, the 2nd inning the fewest, all others about the same.

More evidence that "the concept that lineup effects don't matter, while generally true, has limits." (James, quoted from my imperfect memory.)

Show/Hide Comments 651-700
2007-09-19 16:57:53
651.   Bluebleeder87
I'd love to read some quotes from Bill James theory that protection doesn't matter, just to come up with my own conclusion, are there any you can guide me to, Bill Crain?
2007-09-19 16:58:54
652.   trainwreck
This Cubs/Astros conspiracy is so ridiculous. The Astros have a responsibility to their team, not to the Cubs. They do not have a lot of options right now and they want to see how a couple of kids are going to pitch.

The fact that the Cubs and their fans are so mad to the point that they are even calling it a conspiracy makes me hate them even more.

2007-09-19 17:06:20
653.   Humma Kavula
Um, is that Jeff Kent on the radio talking about ending his career?
2007-09-19 17:06:27
654.   Bill Crain

Originally in the Abstracts, don't ask me which ones. Probably restated in the preface to The Baseball Book, or one of them anyway, where he summarizes most of the revelations that came out of the Abstracts. Also I think it was in Next Time Let's Don't Eat the Bones, but that would have been without the numbers.

Wish I could be more specific. But it's all good reading.

2007-09-19 17:10:07
655.   Bob Timmermann
I think Robinson Checo should be brought out of retirement.
2007-09-19 17:12:20
656.   King of the Hobos
252 If you're the Brewers, would you rather face Woody Williams or Juan Gutierrez? Even if the answer were Gutierrez, it's by a very small margin.

And Oswalt's wife is giving birth. If I were a Cubs fan, I hope I would be sympathetic to that.

And the Astros are still starting Biggio far too often. That's helps the Brewers more than the marginal difference between Williams and Gutierrez.

2007-09-19 17:16:15
657.   Humma Kavula
Rick Monday can't even get through a pre-game interview. He is terrible at every aspect of his job.
2007-09-19 17:17:39
658.   Jim Hitchcock
655 As what???
2007-09-19 17:18:51
659.   Bob Timmermann

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