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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Little Things Mean a Lot
2007-09-20 10:41
by Jon Weisman

Okay, here it is. It's nothing definitive, other than to remind people that the possibility that sacking the manager is a frying pan-into-the-fire situation. But for, a column I've written on Grady Little:

The easiest thing to do in baseball is to blame the manager. The hardest thing to do is find someone who can do the job better.

With the Los Angeles Dodgers tumbling from first place in the National League West on July 29 to fourth place on Thursday morning, despite the highest payroll and arguably the most contributions from the farm system of any team in the division, some Dodgers fans aren't looking for someone to blame. They've already found their man, and folks in the Northeast will probably recognize the name.

If Grady Little hasn't worn out his welcome in Los Angeles yet, he's worn it down. Thanks to the development of sassily talented young players such as James Loney, Matt Kemp, Russell Martin and Chad Billingsley, there's plenty of hope for the Dodgers in 2008. But after a honeymoon in 2006 that saw Los Angeles reach the playoffs, there's also plenty of doubt as to whether Little is the right manager for the job. ...

* * *

Tonight's 12:05 p.m. game:


Retro Gameday

Comments (433)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-20 10:53:16
1.   SgtWyatt
Eh, I still want him gone. He's just not a fit for the Dodgers and I don't know if I can take another year of his bipolar management.
2007-09-20 10:53:26
2.   bhsportsguy
Nice column Jon, but you are right, for now, there will be no changes in Dodger management for 2008.
2007-09-20 10:54:37
3.   shamrok
I just don't see this as a Little problem, but more a Ned problem. I have nothing to base this on, other than all the roster moves appear to be made to make Ned's pickups potentially look good.

dons tin foil

2007-09-20 10:54:47
4.   regfairfield
There's no "arguably" about most contributors from the farm system.
2007-09-20 10:55:27
5.   ToyCannon
Great column Jon.

It is a catch 22 for some Dodger fans. If the clock is indeed ticking on Ned, would we be better served if 2008 was a replication of 2007 and he gets canned, or we find out that we can win in spite of Ned and we are forced to suffer his reign for many years, where we win just enough to satisfy the McCourts while bemoaning his moves?

2007-09-20 10:56:31
6.   CajunDodger
Lineups, Lineups, Lineups. You can survive an average or worse-than-average manager if you have the best 9 guys playing 90% of the time. There have been a lot of mediocre managers go to the playoffs in years past despite strategic shortcomings because their best 9 players were on the field more often than not.
2007-09-20 10:57:26
7.   Jon Weisman
4 - Honestly, I just didn't have time to pull out the stats to prove it.
2007-09-20 10:58:25
8.   KG16
107 in the previous thread - I don't know what accounts for the differences. I just find the perception of the two teams as opposed to the reality rather interesting.
2007-09-20 10:59:00
9.   bhsportsguy
I would also add that the construction of the team did dictate how some of the season played out, really the only way he solves the outfield situation was to give Pierre some time off because without doing that, you were never going to just bench Gonzalez and play Kemp and Ethier everyday.

From what I understand about Furcal's ankle, the only thing they could have done was just shut him down at some point during the season and since it is believed that he will fully recover during the off-season, a decision was made that an 80% of Furcal was better than 100% of someone in the system.

2007-09-20 11:01:40
10.   bhsportsguy
5 I just don't think Ned is going anywhere regardless of how the team does short of an implosion like a 99 loss season.

Ned walked into a great situation and he will get to ride it out.

2007-09-20 11:01:47
11.   Vishal
the title of this blog post could've quoted mediocre 90s grunge band bush, "it's the little things that kill".

your article expressed a lot of what has been said here recently. thanks, jon.

2007-09-20 11:02:37
12.   Vishal
my favorite line in the article was, re: logan white and kim ng, "plenty have suggested that the Dodgers would be worse off to lose either of those two than Colletti."
2007-09-20 11:05:30
13.   sporky
9 - What I don't get is that Grady didn't put Furcal on the DL when he was obviously hurting, since 80% Furcal > 100% Abreu/Hu/whomever. Furcal was the best option, so he stuck with a gimpy Furcal.

But when it comes to outfielders (and 1B), that wasn't the case. He continually flip-flopped between aging mediocrity and impressive young talent.

2007-09-20 11:05:58
14.   regfairfield
11 I prefer to get all free associative with it and just end up quoting a random lyric from the song as the title.
2007-09-20 11:07:32
15.   Vishal
8 they're quite similar. i think the angels win a lot more because they execute better and their pitching is better. but i was indeed surprised that the offensive numbers are so similar between the two teams, but with such different results.
2007-09-20 11:08:32
16.   sporky
Great column, btw. It seems like it's been a while since we've seen that Ethier/Kemp chest bump on pg. 2 (or whatever it is they bump). Or a Saito fist pump.
2007-09-20 11:12:20
17.   bhsportsguy
15 They could also win because their division really stinks and they were 10 games over .500 in interleague play (including 5-1 against the Dodgers)
2007-09-20 11:12:27
18.   MMSMikey
Ty Bicks (Reno): How many games did Little cost the Dodgers by using Nomar, Pierre, Gonzo, Tomko, Hendrickson, Hernandez instead of Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, Loney, LaRoche and Meloan every day from Opening Day on? Definitely cost us a playoff berth, right?

Keith Law: (1:07 PM ET ) Yes, I believe it did cost them a playoff berth. But you have to split the blame between Little and Ned Colletti. And I'd put more blame on the guy who actually signed Pierre and re-signed Nomar.

2007-09-20 11:13:05
19.   kinbote
so what's the consensus then on the little/colletti relationship? we know from quotes that little is very fond of colletti, but are they on the same page philosophically? in this matter, i'm inclined to think little is deferring quite a bit to colletti regarding playing time for certain individuals. it's a bit of a slap in the face to a GM to have your manager bench prize offseason signings. i don't think grady is a great manager, and he's certainly made some curious moves, but i place almost all the blame on colletti.
2007-09-20 11:13:15
20.   Howard Fox
15 as I said, they buy into their manager's philosophy of sacrifice for the team...make the little whatever is necessary...

I don't see a philosophy with Grady

2007-09-20 11:13:25
21.   Frip
So let me understand, Furcal's ankle doesn't allow him to hit a baseball, but it DOES allow him to bounce around like rubber ball for those near miraculous fielding plays?
2007-09-20 11:13:51
22.   bhsportsguy
13 Not true at 1B, once Loney arrived, after a few weeks, Loney pretty much played everyday and he now leads the team in games started at first.
2007-09-20 11:14:57
23.   Gagne55
Bonds is only 4 RBI short of 2000. He's also 24 total bases away from 6000. Both are atainable this year.
2007-09-20 11:18:17
24.   Vishal
23 who? :)
2007-09-20 11:18:50
25.   sporky
22 - You're right. I guess I was (unrealistically?) hoping Loney would be at 1B on opening day. I wonder how this would've played out if we had a half-decent, veteran 3rd baseman. Would Nomar have been shifted over to replace him?

(enter cliche re: hindsight)

2007-09-20 11:19:12
26.   Howard Fox
19 not so fast blaming coletti (although I am not a fan of his either)

a lesson to be learned from the whole Little-Pedro Martinez incident is that Little defers to the "stars"...not that Gonzo or Nomar or Kent now are at that level, but that is Little's inclination

2007-09-20 11:22:22
27.   regfairfield
Pedro Baez and Andrew Lambo both named top 20 prospects of the GCL

2007-09-20 11:24:40
28.   Jon Weisman
If Lambo is a below-average outfielder defensively, is he trade bait? Or can he hack it out there?
2007-09-20 11:26:38
29.   bhsportsguy
BTW - If the roles were reversed and the Angels were sitting on the outside, would hear a lot of static about their big acquistion?

2007 .257/.323/.428 .751
Career .262/.334/.420 .754

I am not using to defend Juan Pierre but we all knew what he was and he pretty much performed as we thought he would so you can argue about his value but Gary Matthews Jr., is 3 years older and also has a contract for 4 more years at higher money and a full no-trade through 2009.

Does winning excuse the signing?

2007-09-20 11:27:45
30.   Eric Enders
28 Logan White has said he thinks Lambo can become a Gold Glove first baseman a la James Loney. So if he's the next Loney, then yeah, he's probably trade bait since we already have the real thing.
2007-09-20 11:29:27
31.   Bluebleeder87

So I guess Eric Enders (Stephan?) had it right.

I won't be here for the game chat (appointment) but I'll be wearing my lucky white DT shirt, I really feel we need a victory today, hopefully it will help the MOJO PUSH.

2007-09-20 11:31:04
32.   jasonungar07
Does winning excuse the signing?

I would say the other side of the Diamond is what excuses it....

2007-09-20 11:31:17
33.   bhsportsguy
For those of you wondering about our first round pick...

Q: Ryan from Los Angeles, CA asks:
I'm very surprised Withrow didn't make the top 20.

A: Chris Kline: Yeah . . . nine innings just isn't going to get it done though. I was disappointed I didn't get to write him up, especially after he sat 92-94 mph with his fastball in the playoffs and lit up 98 several times.

2007-09-20 11:32:53
34.   ToyCannon
He is quite gifted as a defensive 1st baseman. He's only in the outfield because they wanted to get Orr work at GCL and Ortiz in Odgen.
He could easily surpass both of them and be the next in line for 1st base. He's only 18 so four years away at least.
He has a gun for an arm so what he's lacking is foot speed and experience in the outfield. More experience doesn't mean he'll master the outfield but after only 1/2 a season a judgement on his defensive skills as an outfielder shouldn't be written in stone.
2007-09-20 11:33:52
35.   KG16
29 - his numbers don't look too far off his career numbers, and if I remember correctly, Matthews struggled early in the season because of injury.

I'd have preferred Matthews this off season, only because he fit more of the Dodgers' needs than Pierre. But not for what either of the guys were signed for.

2007-09-20 11:33:57
36.   regfairfield
29 Nope, Gary Matthews is a mediocre offensive player and a terrible defensive player who only looks good because he can rob home runs. If it wasn't for Pierre it would easily be the worst signing of the offseason.
2007-09-20 11:34:07
37.   Daniel Zappala
In case you haven't yet gotten enough of Danica McKellar and want to hear more about her math book, here is an interview with her from PRI's Fair Game show that I heard while driving the other day:

2007-09-20 11:34:42
38.   bhsportsguy
32 My point is that there were many who pointed at that deal as among the worst deals last year because Gary Matthews Jr. 2006 season was so much better when compared to the rest of his career, now you had his name linked to HGH plus he is three years older, you can't tell me that 44 million (I think that is what is left) for 4 years is a great deal if he his what he is and not what he did in 2006.
2007-09-20 11:36:35
39.   ToyCannon
I'm bummed Silverio didn't make the cut. He's a year older then Baez but really came on this year.
2007-09-20 11:36:52
40.   regfairfield
I believe this quote from Bucs Dugout pretty accurately evaluated Gary Matthews:

Dave Littlefield sold Matthews in 2001. I have never seen anyone seriously try to claim this was a bad move.

2007-09-20 11:38:14
41.   ToyCannon
I watch a lot of Angel games and subjectively he looks much better then a "terrible defensive player". I don't have Dewans book with me but I don't recall him getting that bad a rating.
2007-09-20 11:39:21
42.   ImprobableImpossible
Pardon my Kevin Kennedy-esque back-in-the-day vibe...

But after Game 3 of the NLDS last year, I was one of few left in the manager's office when Grady was asked a question about the performance of James Loney (he went 3 for 4) and what that meant for 2007. His answer (though I don't recall the exact words) was something along the lines of "I think someone's going to have to get out of the way so he can play."

I was a bit shocked at the time because it was unusually candid and a sure sign of what he felt the future of first base would be.

Needless to say, Grady's handling of the first base situation, among countless others, has been baffling.

I'm not sure who the real Grady is. Is he the guy that spoke so confidently last October about the immediate future of one of his young studs? Or is he the guy that held back that same stud (and several of his peers) this season?

Did he simply change his mind? Or are his hands tied by his superiors? I don't know.

I do know that was another excellent column, Jon.

2007-09-20 11:40:03
43.   ToyCannon
And here is the answer

Nick Eustrom from West Hills, CA asks:
Alfredo Silverio hit .373 on the season with a .950 OPS. What's his story, and why didn't he make the list?

A: Chris Kline: Baez and Lambo have more upside despite the numbers. Silverio is an average runner relegated to a corner OF spot, and his bat is going to have to continue to speak as he moves up. Regardless of how well he hit in the GCL, there are questions about his offensive ceiling. He pulls everything and struggles with balls soft away.

2007-09-20 11:40:08
44.   CanuckDodger
Lambo trade bait? He just mastered the GCL. There are another five levels between that level and the majors. If he follows Loney's rate of progress he will be MLB ready in 2011 or 2012. Lambo will have little trade value till then, and assuming Lambo turns out well, by that time we might want to trade the by-then expensive Loney and replace him with Lambo. It would be cashing in Loney at the height of his value like Texas did with Teixeira.
2007-09-20 11:41:48
45.   bhsportsguy
42 How can Grady be blamed for not playing Loney when Loney wasn't here.
2007-09-20 11:42:53
46.   Jon Weisman
44 and others - thanks. I was assuming incorrectly Lambo was on a faster track.
2007-09-20 11:43:11
47.   regfairfield
41 I'd like to see what Dewan has to say, but the his Zone Rating two years:

.847 (2nd to last)
.850 (2nd to last)

RZR (which gives more credit to rangy outfielders)

.894 (15th out of 21)
.850 (last)

2007-09-20 11:45:51
48.   sporky
According to ESPN, "Ex-Phillies GM Wade is Houston's new GM pick"


2007-09-20 11:46:23
49.   Disabled List
Josh Wilker's latest post at Cardboard Gods is a pretty good distillation of some of the conversations I've been subject to at the Red Sox bar I go to occasionally.

They all know me in there as the token Dodger fan, so I've been heaped with abuse lately re: Drew, Lugo, Gagne. My usual response (karmic retribution for Dave Roberts) is starting to wear as thin as the Sawx' shrinking lead in the AL East.

2007-09-20 11:46:26
50.   ToyCannon
More on Lambo:

Q: Steve from Chatsworth, ca asks:
Wow! What a year out of Lambo! He must be for real! How is it that he is ranked higher than Mesoraco, Ahrens, Lotzgar all 1st rounders? Has he now shown that the 4th round was a mistake?

A: Chris Kline: It's still early, and Lambo needs to keep it together off the field, but the swing is legit. He's going to hit--he might rack up a lot of fines, maybe a few suspensions as he moves up the ladder, but he'll do it in the middle of the order while driving in a ton of runs. This is a guy who's a little off-center, but that sometimes plays into his advantage. He wants to be out there with the game on the line, he never stops talking, and he wants to win.

Sign me up:)

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-20 11:47:50
51.   bhsportsguy
45 To followup, Loney has played first in 83 of the 89 possible games he has been eligible to play in, starting 75 of those games.

That seems like a pretty reasonable amount for a rookie even a very good one.

2007-09-20 11:48:43
52.   bhsportsguy
48 I would be really annoyed if I were an Astro's fan.
2007-09-20 11:48:45
53.   Jon Weisman
50 - Seems like they're trying to brand him as the next Milton B.
2007-09-20 11:49:13
54.   ToyCannon
So if Withrow had pitched more then 9 innings, it is a good bet that we'd have had 3 guys in the top 20.

I liked the info about Baez's defense. At this point we can only count on the scouts for defensive information. BA said he was the best defensive 3b in the league, with the best arm.

2007-09-20 11:49:29
55.   ImprobableImpossible
Are you suggesting that the field manager has no input on the 25-man roster?
Did he ever try Garciaparra in right field?

Not assessing blame. Just wondering how things fit together.

2007-09-20 11:52:02
56.   ToyCannon
Milton wasn't much for talking.

In the West Valley we've heard plenty about the hijinks that Lambo did, but nothing seemed out of the ordinary for a high strung kid in high school. The pre-game interviews that they talked about are something else entirely but I guess we might be lucky he seemed immature since he dropped to the 4th round. Or we might not be.

2007-09-20 11:52:23
57.   Eric Enders
48 caused me to do a little Kirk Gibson fist pump. Fortunately nobody is here to see it.

Ed Wade? It sort of stretches the limits of credulity that a team which seriously considered somebody like Logan White actually ended up hiring Ed Wade.

But at least we can write off the Astros for the next five years.

2007-09-20 11:52:47
58.   bhsportsguy
55 Sure he has input but in the end, the GM makes the decision, and the manager can only play who sits in his dugout.

But when Loney arrived, he played, and now he is settled in.

2007-09-20 11:53:21
59.   ToyCannon
Poor Astro's. They could be in for a world of hurt over the next 10 years.
2007-09-20 11:53:37
60.   fanerman
48 What a sigh of relief! (when it's official)
2007-09-20 11:53:51
61.   bhsportsguy
57 Thus far Pittsburgh hasn't asked for permission to interview White.
2007-09-20 11:55:39
62.   King of the Hobos
48 Time to resign Roberto and Saenez so we can deal them for Berkman.

Seriously, Wade is a horrible pick, although I suppose that if he learned anything from Towers et al in San Diego about reliever acquisition, he could at least be slightly below average.

2007-09-20 11:56:37
63.   D4P
It's going to be a rough 15 years for the Astros.
2007-09-20 11:57:53
64.   Dark Horse
Unhappy as I am with Grady, the question of who we might bring in instead makes me shiver. Too--I hate to say it--with Colletti. As mediocre (if we're lucky) as Ned is, couldn't we do worse? We can call for his head all we want, but Frank McCourt seems a man without qualities or conviction: "Logan who?" he might think, before deciding that what Dodger fans obviously want is Tommy Lasorda (according to this morning's paper, planning to live forever) as GM. I just don't trust him, and fear only luck will keep this team above the level of mediocrity as long as he owns it.

I suppose it's possible he'd consider hiring Kim Ng to be media friendly, and so feasible. But really I think neither Ned nor Grady will go anywhere this offseason. So we'd best hope for excellent fortune.

2007-09-20 11:58:59
65.   ToyCannon
You jest but that is a team that needs to go young. Berkman in LF would be nice.
2007-09-20 12:00:21
66.   ToyCannon
Dusty Baker finally got a vote on our poll. I remain the only one to have voted for the AA manager.
2007-09-20 12:01:45
67.   fanerman
64 I feel that way about Grady (ie, we could do worse) but not about NedCo. I guess I'd hope that either Ng or White would be promoted.
2007-09-20 12:01:50
68.   ImprobableImpossible
True. And maybe that's exactly the point. So much was written about how Tracy and DePo were not on the same page. Could it be that Grady and Ned are also on different pages?

It seems to me that Grady might be conflicted. Based on the words I heard from him, he played a guy at first base for half of the season not because he thinks he's best option but because that was the hand dealt to him by the GM.

Maybe he also feels obligated to play a guy in center field because the GM made such a long commitment to him? Maybe he feels obligated to play a guy in left field because the GM made a financial commitment to him? Maybe he felt obligated to keep certain guys in the fourth and fifth starter spots because the GM made a big trade or signing to get him?

2007-09-20 12:02:13
69.   Eric Enders
57 "five years"
59 "10 years"
63 "15 years"

Heck, by the end of this thread the Astros will probably be contracted.

2007-09-20 12:02:26
70.   King of the Hobos
61 Though it should be noted all Pirates GM candidates are under orders from Nutting to remain tight-lipped on their candidacy.

Although I would expect the Pirates to concentrate more on guys like Woodfork and LaCava, who are likely capable GMs and have connections to the team.

McLane just wanted a yes-man. The fact that he even interviewed Wade or Beattie showed that he had no interest in competency.

2007-09-20 12:04:20
71.   Jon Weisman
Lineups aside, today's game has an exhibition feel for me.
2007-09-20 12:04:51
72.   hernari

The difference is Tracy was putting a weak hitting catcher at 1st instead of Choi/Tomato

2007-09-20 12:05:40
73.   hernari
72 oops, meant for 68
2007-09-20 12:07:37
74.   D4P
Maybe he also feels obligated to play a guy in center field because the GM made such a long commitment to him?

To deny this possibility is essentially to say that, if Kemp were the one with the 5-year $44 million contract and Pierre the one making the league minimum, Pierre still would have started everyday and Kemp would still have been a AAA/platoon player.

2007-09-20 12:08:43
75.   Eric Enders
71 Taking that a step further, might it be in Andy LaRoche's best interests to not play very well from here on out?

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he plays poorly, he'll be thought of as a guy who can't play. If he plays well the rest of the year, he'll be thought of as a guy who can play well in garbage time but choked up when the pennant was on the line, a reputation that could follow him the rest of his career, as reputations often do. Either way, he'll have a significant black mark on his record going into 2008, at least as far as mgmt and most fans are concerned.

2007-09-20 12:08:53
76.   CanuckDodger
64 -- That is very much the way I look at it. As a Calvinist in religion and a conservative in politics, I am used to rooting for the LEAST of many possible evils. Unless Logan White would be guaranteed to replace him, I have no desire to see Colletti fired. Many other GM's would have emptied our farm system by now for trades. And I can't help but notice that many people on ItD and who want Little fired are calling for Dusty Baker or Kevin Kennedy to replace Little. Like Jon says, out of the frying pan and into the fire.
2007-09-20 12:08:58
77.   fanerman
I'm still interested in Russ's chase for 20/20.
2007-09-20 12:10:12
78.   sporky
I just want one blowout win, since that's probably the only way I'll see Meloan pitch this season. Poor sucker.
2007-09-20 12:10:49
79.   D4P
LaRoche's best option might be to shut it down for the rest of the season and make it clear that his back has been messed up since he got recalled from AAA.
2007-09-20 12:11:53
80.   Howard Fox
77 yeah, hopefully Martin can start every game to the end of the season
2007-09-20 12:13:12
81.   sporky
76 - Reading the comments on ItD makes my brain hurt and eyes bleed.
2007-09-20 12:13:23
82.   Kevin Lewis
I still don't understand why Gonzo is playing. I refuse to get used to the shuffle at the end of the year. Denial, I know.
2007-09-20 12:13:25
83.   Tangled Up in Blue
I really feel that Ned is the bigger problem. He spent around $50MM (that number is off the top of my head) this offseason on, what has proven to be, mediocre talent at best.

My concern is that Little and Colletti are on the same page and, if so, will lead to mediocrity for years to come.

My other concern is that McCourt isnt smart enough to see this.

Frank has really put himself in a corner with the way he handled the Tracy/Depo situation so I dont expect much change in Dodger management.

2007-09-20 12:14:26
84.   Eric Enders
78 You're not giving Grady enough credit. He might also pitch in a blowout loss.

Which brings me to something else -- Jon, in his fabulous article, chose not to mention one of my main beefs regarding the Dodgers' 2007 season -- the misuse of Jonathan Meloan. First Colletti refused to call him up and then Grady refused to use him, a stubbornness that has perhaps cost the team dearly.

2007-09-20 12:15:33
85.   fanerman
77 was in response to Jon's exhibition game comment. Russell is in the line-up today, so I made the comment about Russell. If he wasn't, I probably would have said something else. Of course Russell should take it easy for the rest of the season. But if he's playing, might as well be interested in 20/20.
2007-09-20 12:15:33
86.   fanerman
77 was in response to Jon's exhibition game comment. Russell is in the line-up today, so I made the comment about Russell. If he wasn't, I probably would have said something else. Of course Russell should take it easy for the rest of the season. But if he's playing, might as well be interested in 20/20.
2007-09-20 12:15:34
87.   Eric Enders
76 "many people ... who want Little fired are calling for Dusty Baker or Kevin Kennedy to replace Little. Like Jon says, out of the frying pan and into the fire."

More like out of the frying pan and straight into the depths of hell.

2007-09-20 12:16:00
88.   fanerman
My finger twitched as I clicked submit.
2007-09-20 12:16:32
89.   Eric Enders
Add fanerman to the list of people I would never hire as a sniper.
2007-09-20 12:16:42
90.   hernari

I don't think it's nearly as complicated as that. If Nomar struggles and Andy has a good spring it would not surprise me in the least to see AR starting at 3b to open the season, especially after Nomar's horrid 2007. Barring a FA signing of course.

If Andy plays well in April, I think his first year struggles will be forgotten.

These are a lot of "if's" though.

2007-09-20 12:17:53
91.   Bob Timmermann
Jon is just itching to cash in his loser's dividend check.
2007-09-20 12:18:04
92.   Howard Fox
84 when would he pitch? its seanez in the 6th, beimel for one batter then proctor in the 7th, broxton in the 8th and saito or hernandez in the 9th (depending on if we are ahead or behind)

I guess he could get in if the starter doesn't make it to the 5th

2007-09-20 12:18:09
93.   fanerman
89 I would never hire myself as a sniper either.
2007-09-20 12:18:11
94.   silverwidow
Are we in the bottom 15 for W-L % yet? I want to keep our 1st round pick.
2007-09-20 12:18:25
95.   Jon Weisman
84 - Thanks for the praise, Eric. I see Meloan as more of a Colletti issue than a Little issue, though Little has certainly tried to rally to grab his share.
2007-09-20 12:18:50
96.   Jon Weisman
91 - Sept. 29, baby. I'll be there, free and easy.
2007-09-20 12:19:12
97.   Humma Kavula
90 I'd love that, but I think it's wishful thinking to believe that LaRoche will displace Garciaparra* before, at best, June. James Loney hit .380 last year, for Pete's sake...

*Or Mike Lowell, heaven forfend.

2007-09-20 12:19:14
98.   Howard Fox
90 if LaRoche bats over .400 in the spring, he should get called up by June if not July
2007-09-20 12:21:43
99.   sporky
98 - And if his back holds up.
2007-09-20 12:23:23
100.   King of the Hobos
94 We're tied for 12th with the Braves. Our only real chance to secure our first rounder would be to lose just about every game from now on.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-09-20 12:23:25
101.   Eric Enders
90 " If Nomar struggles and Andy has a good spring it would not surprise me in the least to see AR starting at 3b to open the season"

While I don't disagree with that, it illustrates the problem quite well -- Nomar and LaRoche are being judged by two different sets of standards, even though neither of them has really proven he is a major league caliber hitter.

2007-09-20 12:23:26
102.   hernari
97 If Nomar was coming off a solid "20 HR 100 RBI season", I'd agree. However I think Nomar doesn't have quite the clout with management as he did after this year.
2007-09-20 12:23:43
103.   Kevin Lewis
Yea, ITD comments are pretty painful at this point. Josh is a patient man.
2007-09-20 12:27:35
104.   Eric Enders
Okay, I just looked at the lineup for the first time. I should really save my Kemp's-not-starting-again rant as a macro. Would save me a lot of typing the rest of the year.
2007-09-20 12:30:46
105.   sporky
Yay, Andy got a hit! And his BA is over 0.200!
2007-09-20 12:31:42
106.   silverwidow
Andy is going to have a massive day. I just feel it.
2007-09-20 12:31:48
107.   hernari
102 Needless to say, this comment is NOT based on fact, only my opinion :)
2007-09-20 12:32:04
108.   Eric Enders
That LaRoche, he only plays well when it doesn't count.
2007-09-20 12:32:17
109.   Vishal
jeez, jimenez is throwing 98 with movement according to the colorado broadcast.
2007-09-20 12:38:42
110.   sporky
Ubaldo Jiminez reminds me of Beaker from Sesame Street

2007-09-20 12:38:51
111.   Bob Timmermann
Nyjer Morgan leads off against Brett Tomko with a triple at Petco.
2007-09-20 12:40:05
112.   Wilbert Robinson
I feel as though right now if Colletti and Little were to be fired (not happening obviously) based on McCourts remarks things would only get progressively worse for us. If he fired Colletti at this point it wouldn't be for the case some of us here would be making it would be out of rashness. It'd be for not trading away prospects at the deadline and missing the playoffs. Its quite obvious that McCourt wants to win now. Anybody that I would want to manage wouldn't get the job. I'm sure McCourt is steamed about missing the playoffs but I'm guessing he is not steamed for the reasons I am steamed. I need to learn to love Ned Colletti and Grady Little. Anyway this post is more for me trying to come to peace with the state of things in Dodgerland than anything else. That being said I wouldn't it be a wonderful world if at the end of each post at ItD instead of FIRE NED!!!!! FIRE GRADY!!!! it was FIRE PLASCHKE!!!!!!!!!
2007-09-20 12:42:04
113.   Gen3Blue
I'm not getting the Dodger game on my DTV package and the poor Cust Serv. rep finally found out other folks have the same problem.
Ironically, I can get the Pads game.
2007-09-20 12:42:16
114.   Vishal
kemp would've had that.
2007-09-20 12:44:25
115.   D4P
Kemp wouldn't have had that.
2007-09-20 12:44:27
116.   MC Safety
Matt Holliday is insane right now.
2007-09-20 12:44:43
117.   Vishal
2007-09-20 12:45:08
118.   Vishal
i'm so glad i have matt holiday on my fantasy team.
2007-09-20 12:45:53
119.   The Mootz
What's more excruciating to watch: the Dodgers or Alfred Hitchcock's Frenzy?

Might be too close to call.

2007-09-20 12:46:00
120.   underdog
Another clutch performance from a Dodger starting pitcher. Can we just say that whatever their other problems, both on the field and off this month, with the exception of Billingsley the Dodgers did not get enough good, deep performances from their pitching staff and that's reason #1 why they're going to be MIA from the playoffs? Is that fair, at least?

(Not that I'm saying this game is over mind you, it is Coors and all...)

2007-09-20 12:46:01
121.   regfairfield
112 How to be a true Dodger fan:

Predict 120 wins and an 11 game sweep of the playoffs. Call anyone who disagrees with you a Giants fan.

Call for the head of the entire organization the first time you go through a 2-8 stretch, and say how you would have signed [whatever free agent happens to be doing well at the time].

Caps lock is your friend.

2007-09-20 12:46:05
122.   Wilbert Robinson
um I'm guessing something bad just happened my went out....
2007-09-20 12:46:34
123.   sporky
I wonder if Colletti will be around to sign Holliday in 7-9 years.
2007-09-20 12:48:09
124.   Jon Weisman
120 - I don't think today is a clutch situation.
2007-09-20 12:48:46
125.   fanerman
123 Holliday would be about 35, declined, and have a lot of PVL in 7-9 years.
2007-09-20 12:49:32
126.   underdog
124 Well I had roughly .07% hope for a Dodgers unbeaten streak to end the season and leap into the playoffs. I was living in denial, I guess. :-( But it's not an irrelevant game, at the least. Lowe's been real streaky this past month.
2007-09-20 12:49:55
127.   D4P
Lowe's ERA still under 4.00
2007-09-20 12:49:58
128.   underdog
125 How much PVL is that in dog years?
2007-09-20 12:50:18
129.   Vishal
i'm at peace with this.
2007-09-20 12:50:32
130.   sporky
Hey, we might see Hu/Meloan today!


2007-09-20 12:50:38
131.   Wilbert Robinson
ZXach Greinke sure looks good today..8 IP 2H 10K
2007-09-20 12:51:28
132.   underdog
Maybe this is good. Just shut some guys down at this point. Start more rookies. Make it fun for us again. Since the rest is hopeless, pointlessness. And other -lessnesses.
2007-09-20 12:51:37
133.   Reddog
We are stuck with Ned and Grady for better or for worse. Not only does McCourt love Colletti - calling him his best single move - but for the sake of not looking foolish or trigger-happy he really can't just fire Ned now. And Ned believes in Grady, at least for one more year. If we miss the playoffs next season, I do believe Little will be gone, partly as a proactive move on Colletti's part to shift the blame to the manager.
2007-09-20 12:52:25
134.   Vishal
131 keep in mind he's pitching against the white sox. but yeah, it's still pretty darn good.
2007-09-20 12:52:49
135.   King of the Hobos
Ned likes PVL, but I he hasn't done very well in his attempts to sign Boras-represented PVLs (Maddux). It'll be interesting to see how Holliday hits once he and Boras collect a king's ransom at some other ballpark in a few years.

And the good news for today's game? We might see Meloan!

2007-09-20 12:54:10
136.   Wilbert Robinson
134 yeah I've been watching much of the game though his stuff looks great. Not literally electric arm great but almost. There can be only one literally electric arm.
2007-09-20 12:54:15
137.   CanuckDodger
The Rockies have seven homegrown players in their line-up today, with six of them being young and cheap and the other being Helton. Francis, Jimenez, and Morales are all homegrown pitchers in their rotation who were top prospects in the minors, and if Aaron Cook wasn't hurt, he'd be a fourth. People are going to say -- when we finish fourth in the NL West -- that it is a disgrace that a $100 million-payroll team finished behind the lowly Rockies, when the truth will be that we finished that way because we aren't more like the Rockies.
2007-09-20 12:54:35
138.   bhsportsguy
132 Regardless, that won't happen this weekend against the D-Backs and if the Rockies keep playing well, then it won't happen until the Dodgers face the Giants next weekend.
2007-09-20 12:55:56
139.   D4P
In order for Ned to say that Grittle has done a good job, he would essentially have to say that Grittle has gotten an acceptable level of performance out of the roster.

But if that's true, then wouldn't that suggest that Ned didn't do a very good job of putting the roster together?

How can Ned say both that he put a good roster together and that Grittle got a lot out of the roster?


2007-09-20 12:57:13
140.   Gen3Blue
120 Well stated. And this is not very promising because this looks like the best Colo. pitching we are going to see for the series. But I could enjoy watching anyway if DTV would work. The fact that I can't get it may even mean a 6+1 or something remarkable.
2007-09-20 12:57:50
141.   Wilbert Robinson
139 what are the odds that that question makes it through on the next Sit Down with Ned at
2007-09-20 12:58:09
142.   MollyKnight
Did anybody think we'd come to Colorado and get swept?
2007-09-20 12:58:52
143.   Terry A
139 Yes. And Eddie Murray can also be blamed. The media already dislike Murray, so that's an easy scapegoat.
2007-09-20 12:59:01
144.   StolenMonkey86
139 - blame Nomar.
2007-09-20 12:59:38
145.   CanuckDodger
142 -- Me.
2007-09-20 13:00:15
146.   Jon Weisman
It's not as if I didn't hear McCourt offer that now-famous praise of Colletti with my own ears, but people should remember that if the Dodgers were to continue a downward slide into next year (not saying that will happen), McCourt surely will start reconsidering his thoughts. I'm sure at some point, McCourt was thrilled with his DePo hire too.
2007-09-20 13:00:46
147.   underdog
133 We've quote McCourt about that a lot (the "best single move" one) but does anyone think it's possible he could change his mind on that - before the end of next season? I mean I'm prone to agree with Jon's article, that Colletti and Little will both be given one more year to prove doubters and repair things, but I wonder if McCourt's as patient as we think he is, given the investment. Does he love Colletti that much? Genuinely curious...
2007-09-20 13:01:11
148.   jtrichey
Can anybody please give me (or tell me where to find) games started data for position players? Wondering how many times Kemp has not started since August 1 mostly, but would like to see the numbers for all Dodgers. ESPN, and do not have games started for position players.
2007-09-20 13:01:55
149.   Reddog
Time for me to start thinking about the Lakers. Aren't they supposed to be bad this year?
2007-09-20 13:03:05
150.   bhsportsguy
137 What qualifies as young? Atkins and the three outfielders are 27, 27, 28, 28 and are in their 3rd, 3rd, 4th and 3rd years of pro ball. The SS and C are rookies and the other guy is the 34 year old 1B.

The Dodgers were never going to be all young this year but by keeping their youngsters, they certainly seem on their way.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-09-20 13:03:06
151.   Bob Timmermann
They're all on

2007-09-20 13:03:18
152.   Jon Weisman
Goes to show you: The first e-mail response to my column this morning said that Russell Martin should have started more games this year.
2007-09-20 13:03:26
153.   D4P
Worse than bad: irrelevant.
2007-09-20 13:04:07
154.   Jon Weisman
146/147 - there you go.
2007-09-20 13:04:41
155.   D4P
Team Depo works for: 3
Team Jim Tracy works for: 1
2007-09-20 13:05:15
156.   bhsportsguy
146 I am not sure about that.
2007-09-20 13:05:44
157.   underdog
149 Ugh, talk about depressing. There's a lot more hope for the Dodgers' future than the Lakers'. Seriously. I say this as a Lakers fan.

146/147/154 - Indeed! ;-)

2007-09-20 13:06:46
158.   underdog
In the Too Little Too Late Dept., Derek Lowe has settled down.


2007-09-20 13:07:24
159.   sporky
152 Ack.
2007-09-20 13:07:31
160.   ToyCannon
Canuck - You didn't have Baez in the top 30 you posted a little while back. Were you surprised at how much support he got in the BA breakdown of the GCL today? I know it is tough to get information on international league signings which I suspect is why you didn't rate him.
2007-09-20 13:09:28
161.   Gen3Blue
No DTV yet, so I looked back through game day. Every thing happened in the 2nd with two outs. But when Lowe gets smacked around, he really gets smacked around.
2007-09-20 13:11:19
162.   Vishal
152 do you write back?
2007-09-20 13:11:58
163.   Jon Weisman
162 - If/when I have something to say.
2007-09-20 13:12:37
164.   underdog
152 Is that even possible?

I think I'll send you an anonymous email saying you should have pointed out the lack of playing time for Olmedo Saenz as the main culprit for the Dodger woes.

2007-09-20 13:13:20
165.   underdog
Free Chad Moeller!
2007-09-20 13:13:25
166.   Vishal
AFLAC trivia question... todd helton? juan pierre?
2007-09-20 13:13:34
167.   bhsportsguy
It must be me, but I never expect to win a division or get to the playoffs every year in baseball.

If the season ended today, only 3 out of 8 teams would have repeated from last year, which was the same from 2005 to 2006.

Now, could the Dodgers become a team like the Yankees or Braves that go year after year, that is something to hope for but I think there were too many questions for this team to reach that status right now.

You play 162 games to eliminate 22 teams and it remains the hardest professional sport to qualify for the post-season.

This isn't football, basketball or hockey where a much larger percentage of teams qualify for the post-season, baseball is tough and it is the exception rather than the rule to make it to the post-season.

2007-09-20 13:14:15
168.   Wilbert Robinson
I wonder what Dayton Moore was asking from the Dodgers for Greinke if he wanted Loney or Kemp for Dotel?
2007-09-20 13:14:55
169.   Gen3Blue
That is sort of a surprise, considering our tribulations about the offense after Drew left, and about not playing our best players, that in the end it was our pitching that lost it.
2007-09-20 13:16:01
170.   ToyCannon
I think what Underdog said "is that even possible" would suffice.
2007-09-20 13:16:08
171.   Vishal
wow, dante bichette. who woulda thunk?
2007-09-20 13:17:04
172.   D4P
in the end it was our pitching that lost it

A lot of credit should be given to the DBacks and Padres for "winning it".

2007-09-20 13:17:22
173.   trainwreck
Is it ironic that Matt Holliday may lead me to the DT Fantasy Baseball League championship?
2007-09-20 13:17:28
174.   underdog
Should just walk Holliday for the rest of the game.
2007-09-20 13:18:31
175.   dodgerkramer1
I think Grady has done a decent job this season. Ned, too ... at least he didn't trade away the kids. Every teams' fans are fed up with their manager/GM this time of year.

Honestly, besides Scioscia, who could keep Dodger fans (or any fans) happy longer than a couple months?

The only problem I have with Grady is how he has abused Broxton, Martin and, now, LaRoche. (Did anyone else cringe when he dove for Atkins' double earlier? Remind me again why we have a kid with a bulging disc playing in this game?)

2007-09-20 13:19:26
176.   D4P
The Pirates have a "Carlos Maldonado".

Any relation to the ex-Dodger great...?

2007-09-20 13:19:33
177.   Vishal
no mo' lowe.
2007-09-20 13:20:22
178.   trainwreck
Scioscia certainly would not keep me happy.

I think we should ban the idea of hiring ex-Dodger stars.

2007-09-20 13:20:45
179.   jtrichey
151 Thanks Bob, I should just know I can find anything at bvaseball-reference, but sometimes those things seem to be hiding from me. By the way, who here is sponsoring Matt Kemp's baseball-reference page, with the following headline:

In honor of Ned Colletti and Grady Little, the men who sabotaged the Dodgers' 2007 season by propping up the decrepit carcasses of Juan Pierre and Luis Gonzalez so Bison Kemp and his 125 OPS+ could rot on the bench.

2007-09-20 13:20:58
180.   Jon Weisman
173 - I think Juan Pierre doing it would have been ironic.
2007-09-20 13:21:32
181.   ToyCannon
I think we should only hire ex-Dodgers.
2007-09-20 13:21:39
182.   trainwreck
Lowe is probably going to cost me two other fantasy baseball championships.
2007-09-20 13:22:06
183.   ToyCannon
Sounds like Eric Enders.
2007-09-20 13:23:13
184.   ToyCannon
Is Matt Holliday any different then Dante Bichette? Dante was very much a man made by Coors and Holliday seems cut from the same cloth.
2007-09-20 13:24:01
185.   ToyCannon
Candido would never use a regular name like Carlos for his kid.
2007-09-20 13:24:08
186.   Wilbert Robinson
179 Its a good thing Ned Colletti still only uses a typewriter.
2007-09-20 13:25:05
187.   Wilbert Robinson
184 But what of the Humidor!
2007-09-20 13:26:22
188.   underdog
Who's this Eric Stults fellow? He seems effective.
2007-09-20 13:27:40
189.   Vishal
184 the rockies announcing crew seem to insist otherwise. they're convinced that holliday is the legit MVP.

they do have a point though, in that there are several other ballparks in the NL which eclipse coors field in terms of park effects.

2007-09-20 13:27:51
190.   dodgerkramer1
Oh, great, now our team's catcher/heart and soul has a bum hip. GET HIM OUT OF THERE! Put in Moeller!

Meanwhile, Grady's thinking, "If I bring in Broxton right now, we might have a shot at this thing."

2007-09-20 13:28:56
191.   underdog
178/181 - Actually that's an interesting question. If you were going to hire an ex-Dodger to manage, who would it be? (We've already tried a couple, and a few others have managed or are managing elsewhere.) Kirk Gibson? ;-)
2007-09-20 13:29:29
192.   Jon Weisman
100 pitches, 11 outs for the Dodgers.
2007-09-20 13:29:40
193.   Vishal
191 whatever happened to the "draft orel" movement?
2007-09-20 13:30:09
194.   underdog
Naw, I think Holliday's more legit long term than Bichette. He just seems to have "it" whatever that is, and I could see him hitting well anywhere.
2007-09-20 13:31:38
195.   Vishal
stults' seems to have developed his changeup as an out pitch. or was it always that way for him?
2007-09-20 13:31:51
196.   Vishal
(minus the ')
2007-09-20 13:32:21
197.   trainwreck
I think Orel's attitude may drive players crazy.
2007-09-20 13:32:47
198.   ToyCannon
Why, he has a career OPS of 784 in over 1000 ab's on the road?
2007-09-20 13:34:40
199.   King of the Hobos
184 I think there's a very good chance that we will learn the answer when Holliday becomes a free agent. Boras clients don't stay with their team very often after free agency.
2007-09-20 13:35:18
200.   dodgerkramer1
[there are several other ballparks in the NL which eclipse coors field in terms of park effects.]

Doesn't this have a lot to do with the fact that Rockies opponents (Pads, Dodgers, Dbacks) don't hit many home runs? Maybe I'm wrong; I'm not a stats guru.

But humidor or no, it's impossible to compare Coors Field or Rockies hitters to their NL brethren. It was, is and always will be Arena Baseball in Denver. There are countless hits in that park that would be routine lineouts/flyouts in regular parks. OFers play SOOOOO deep.

Oh, and there's that thin-air thing, too.

For all these reasons, gotta go with David Wright for MVP. Big numbers, 30 steals, tougher defensive position and plays in a pitcher's ballpark.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-09-20 13:36:22
201.   King of the Hobos
Shea is still alive! Let's see if he can get a hit though.
2007-09-20 13:37:03
202.   Vishal
198 he's hitting over .300 with 11 homers on the road this year. that's not too shabby. carlos lee has much more dramatic splits this year, but people don't doubt that he's a legit slugger.
2007-09-20 13:37:21
203.   sporky
Kent is 1 PA away from earning $9 million (if he so desires).
2007-09-20 13:37:35
204.   Im So Blue
179 By the way, who here is sponsoring Matt Kemp's baseball-reference page

Just hold your cursor over "Bring Me Colletti's Head on a Plate" and you'll see the answer on the status line at the bottom of your screen.

2007-09-20 13:38:57
205.   Vishal
200 how about hanley ramirez? i might pick him as MVP.
2007-09-20 13:39:19
206.   Jon Weisman
204 - He even linked to DT, too. How kind :)
2007-09-20 13:39:39
207.   dodgerkramer1
202 So Holliday's #'s translate to .300 with 22 homers...doesn't sound like an MVP to me. Not unless this is 1984.
2007-09-20 13:40:13
208.   Vishal
197 what's his attitude?
2007-09-20 13:40:18
209.   King of the Hobos
200 As far as I know, park factors only rely on the home team. And even if they don't, they only measure relative increases, so how many runs a team scores is irrelevant, it only matters that they're production increases in the park.
2007-09-20 13:41:26
210.   Bob Timmermann
Carlos Maldonado is from Venezuela. Candy Maldonado is from Puerto Rico.
2007-09-20 13:42:38
211.   Bob Timmermann
I think Orel's attitude is upright right now. I haven't noticed any pitch or yaw.
2007-09-20 13:42:49
212.   D4P
I have friends who are from New Zealand. Their daughter is from North Carolina.
2007-09-20 13:43:17
213.   dodgerkramer1
209 Oh, I see. Shows my ignorance. I thought I was cool b/c I could calculate slugging percentage. :-)
2007-09-20 13:44:23
214.   trainwreck
He is smart, so that come off as a know it all.
2007-09-20 13:44:41
215.   trainwreck
*so that can come off...
2007-09-20 13:45:12
216.   Vishal
207 oh i see, home games don't count in MVP balloting.
2007-09-20 13:46:08
217.   Vishal
214 oh no!! a SMART manager. god forbid we ever have one of those. managing jobs are for idiots only, please.
2007-09-20 13:46:43
218.   Bob Timmermann
Why would a U.S. citizen move to Venezuela to go have children? I wouldn't be surprised if Candy Maldonado lives in the lower 48 now.
2007-09-20 13:47:05
219.   dodgerkramer1
216 They count, all right, just not as much when they're played in Denver.
2007-09-20 13:47:12
220.   trainwreck
Sadly, I am guessing players would like that more.
2007-09-20 13:48:07
221.   Bob Timmermann
Except when Larry Walker played in 1997.
2007-09-20 13:50:58
222.   dodgerkramer1
221 Seriously, though, what would Holliday's numbers be this season if he played for, say, the Braves? I'm guessing something like .310 avg, 25 homers and 100 RBIs. A good season, sure, but probably not an MVP. Unless he's a catcher or shortstop (or if he steals 30 like Wright).
2007-09-20 13:53:34
223.   Bob Timmermann
Brett Tomko in line for his second straight win for the Padres.
2007-09-20 13:54:14
224.   regfairfield
MVPs using my formula (unadjusted so far)


2007-09-20 13:54:21
225.   jasonungar07
Since 88 have we made the playoffs more or less than the raiders? I want to scream YES but I am not so sure. I think I read today in 19 years since our WS we have missed the playoffs 15 times. We should be used to this...

In general my feeling is that if we cared about winning, we would hire people to run the team who have built a championship team before. I realize people need a chance, but that's what other markets are for. It's no suprise to me that 4 playoff apperances in 19 years and we have had 3 GM's who had never been GM's before. You guys older than me would probably throw Claire in that group as well.
2007-09-20 13:56:05
226.   Vishal
224 hanley ramirez doesn't even make your list?? wow.
2007-09-20 13:56:34
227.   trainwreck
The Dodgers have been to the playoffs more.
2007-09-20 13:57:24
228.   regfairfield
226 He was 12th. By far the worst defensive shortstop in the majors. If he moved to center, he'd be on there.
2007-09-20 13:58:13
229.   Bob Timmermann
The Los Oaklangeles Raiders have made the NFL playoffs six times since the Dodgers last won the World Series.

The Dodgers have gone to the playoffs four times since 1988.

2007-09-20 13:58:37
230.   King of the Hobos
225 Guys that built championships aren't available. Would you rather have Ed Wade or Jim Beattie?
2007-09-20 13:58:47
231.   bhsportsguy
Brett Tomko is about to match his win total with the Dodgers.
2007-09-20 13:58:59
232.   Vishal
228 i haven't gotten to see him play much, but he leads the league in VORP, and he has 27 win shares. his defense must be pretty atrocious. he has an arm, i take it... what's the problem with his D? bad throws?
2007-09-20 13:59:12
233.   Bob Timmermann
The Raiders made the playoffs in 1990, 1991, 1993, 2000, 2001, 2002.
2007-09-20 14:00:17
234.   King of the Hobos
Meloan is loosening up!
2007-09-20 14:00:23
235.   trainwreck
Oh yeah, I forgot Art's first stint.
2007-09-20 14:00:43
236.   Im So Blue
Vin says Meloan is warming up in the bullpen.
2007-09-20 14:01:28
237.   underdog
I can't remember a more demoralizing Dodgers' series in a pennant race... not for a long time.

Well, there was probably one in St. Louis last year that was about as bad, but at least they had time to recover from that one.

2007-09-20 14:02:00
238.   Vishal
nice play by laroche.
2007-09-20 14:02:19
239.   underdog
Cool, I may turn MLBTV back on just to see Meloan pitch.
2007-09-20 14:02:33
240.   Jon Weisman
237 - September 26-29, 1996 comes to mind.
2007-09-20 14:02:53
241.   Jon Weisman
240 - I mean Sept. 27-29.
2007-09-20 14:04:18
242.   Bob Timmermann
You can't remember back to 1997? After the Dodgers were swept in a 2-game set in San Francisco, they came back home and lost three straight to the Rockies.
2007-09-20 14:05:09
243.   regfairfield
232 Stinks at pretty much everything defensive. Doesn't get to too many balls (near the bottom in range factor and zone rating), of the ones he does he drops a ton of them (near the bottom in fielding percentage too). Looking more closely, he does have a decent amount of out of zone plays, so maybe he's completely immobile to one direction. Someone else could tell you better.
2007-09-20 14:08:05
244.   ToyCannon
The top OPS+ seasons for the Rockies since their inception.

The Dodgers top OPS+ seasons since 1959

2007-09-20 14:08:35
245.   underdog
242 I can't remember parts of 2005, for that matter! But yeah, now that you mention it, I do remember the pain of that one. Losing at home was even more embarrassing.

I had a bad feeling about this series, anyway.

2007-09-20 14:08:49
246.   Tangled Up in Blue
Is this a coming out party for the Rockies? If they get there pitching shored up this team will be very tough to beat.

The folks on the Loose Cannons show are calling for Little to be fired. They say that Lasorda has been grumbling about the team "underperforming". Probably just talk but it only takes a spark...

They want Kevin Kennedy to take over. No mention of Colletti and his performance.

2007-09-20 14:08:57
247.   ToyCannon
I've heard he's the worse SS in baseball. Do you think they will move him to CF?
2007-09-20 14:09:23
248.   King of the Hobos
Our comeback is underway!
2007-09-20 14:09:37
249.   underdog
A PVL Run!©
2007-09-20 14:09:58
250.   Vishal
there's your PVL right there.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-09-20 14:11:14
251.   Vishal
249 lol, that should be an official statistic.

you could divide scoring into two categories:

PVL runs
luck runs

2007-09-20 14:11:23
252.   King of the Hobos
247 Probably not, for the simple reason of Cody Ross is better than Robert Andino.
2007-09-20 14:12:02
253.   gibsonhobbs88
237 - The team seems to now have mailed in the rest of the season. Last week of thes season is irrelevant to the Boys in Blue. Extra time to plan golf, fishing and hunting outings. They botched whatever chance they could have had with this ill-fated trip to the Rocky Mountains. Maybe its best the young players learn from this month, let it fester and give them motivation for next year. My NL allegiences will be to root the Cubbies on to their first WS appearance in 62 years and end the Billy Goat curse!!
2007-09-20 14:12:13
254.   underdog
Maybe the Dodgers will Clint Hurdle their way back into this one!

246 No way should Grady Little be fired before Ned Colletti. That's the only thing I have to say about that...

2007-09-20 14:12:43
255.   trainwreck
I hope we continue the process of not even interviewing Kevin Kennedy.
2007-09-20 14:13:47
256.   Wilbert Robinson
252 Ben Kozlowski where are you know?
2007-09-20 14:15:38
257.   Im So Blue
Rally killer by Ethier!
2007-09-20 14:15:44
258.   King of the Hobos
Vin didn't even bother to use sentences for that home run call.
2007-09-20 14:16:06
259.   underdog
Thank YOU 3.5 and thank you Clint Hurdle!
2007-09-20 14:16:14
260.   Vishal
those two were luck runs.
2007-09-20 14:16:24
261.   Humma Kavula

Wait, do we still call him 3.5?

2007-09-20 14:16:34
262.   underdog
Drat, now we probably won't see Meloan. ;-) Darn you Andre!
2007-09-20 14:16:41
263.   bhsportsguy
Brett Tomko gave up 20 earned runs in his last 5 starts as a Dodger, he walked more than he struck out.

In two starts (both at Petco) he has given up 3 runs in 12 innings, striking out 11 and walking none.

Amazing what a ballpark can do for confidence.

2007-09-20 14:16:59
264.   Gen3Blue
This is not a good omen. The D's game finally showed up in the seventh on DTV, to give me the humiliating end.

Wait Ethier hit one-who knows-who cares-I do.

2007-09-20 14:17:21
265.   Jon Weisman
Hiring Kevin Kennedy would be a move just about akin to trading Matt Kemp.
2007-09-20 14:17:33
266.   Vishal
awesome. let's move the fences back and re-sign him.
2007-09-20 14:18:16
267.   Bob Timmermann
That and Rick Honeycutt not trying to change his delivery, which Tomko thinks was the principal cause of his stuggles.
2007-09-20 14:18:22
268.   Wilbert Robinson
Hiring Kennedy would turn me into a Royals fan.
2007-09-20 14:18:33
269.   Humma Kavula
There he goes!
2007-09-20 14:18:48
270.   overkill94
LaRoche finally did it!
2007-09-20 14:18:52
271.   bhsportsguy
263 It also helps win you face two of the worst offensives in the league.
2007-09-20 14:19:28
272.   Wilbert Robinson
270 wait are you serious? I hate you
2007-09-20 14:19:37
273.   sporky
2007-09-20 14:19:40
274.   trainwreck
Congratulations, LaRoche!!!
2007-09-20 14:19:48
275.   silverwidow
LaRoche!!! I called it!
2007-09-20 14:19:50
276.   fracule
Back to Back baby
2007-09-20 14:19:52
277.   Gen3Blue
Is it possible to find out how many Penny struck out and walked in his last 4 starts?

Good-bye says LaRoche. Just play him if he's healthy, and several years of obsevation says the power will come in gobs.

2007-09-20 14:20:06
278.   MC Safety
Whoo Andy!!
2007-09-20 14:20:26
279.   Michael D
I hope with the first out of the way that it opens up the flood gates for LaRoche.
2007-09-20 14:20:27
280.   Tangled Up in Blue
265 I agree. They mentioned that Kennedy has "media savvy" which means absolutely nothing.


2007-09-20 14:21:15
281.   Pedro Astacio
wow, that was one of the most beautiful things since the Hu home run.
2007-09-20 14:21:23
282.   jtrichey
park factors absolutely include visiting teams data

Our next manager should be Larry Dierker. That has a snowball's chance in LA of happening though.

2007-09-20 14:21:37
283.   Jon Weisman
280 - Such a joke. All they care about is having someone to talk to them.
2007-09-20 14:22:03
284.   WillieD
Yes! LaRoche hit his first homer, finally! I'd been thinking of complaining about his never having hit a HR for the Dodgers yet, just to anti-jinx him a little. Didn't need it.

Excellent point on the feel of today's game, Jon. It does feel like spring training. The joy is in watching the young guys do something good.

2007-09-20 14:22:15
285.   underdog
yay! Andy popped h... er, I was gonna use a dirty analogy. You know what I mean! Good on him.

I'm only bummed that I was following on Gameday so I didn't actually see it. Was it a good smash?

2007-09-20 14:22:38
286.   trainwreck
I would love that.
2007-09-20 14:22:46
287.   Jon Weisman
When I saw Andy hit the homer, I actually said out loud "Oh beautiful for spacious skies."
2007-09-20 14:23:09
288.   underdog
Travis Denker could've done that, Sweeney!

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

2007-09-20 14:23:39
289.   King of the Hobos
277 8 BB, 11 K.

That was an improvement over his previous 3 starts: 11 BB, 6 K

2007-09-20 14:23:55
290.   underdog
Larry Dierker? I thought he had a terrible reputation. Did I miss something?
2007-09-20 14:24:30
291.   Gen3Blue
I have adjusted to all that has happened in the last week without outright despair, and even a glimmer of hope. But when someone mentions Kevin Kennedy I could collapse.
Remember he has minor league history back east in my Berkshires.
2007-09-20 14:25:58
292.   underdog
Finally a Meloan sighting! Hopefully not the last of the season.
2007-09-20 14:26:23
293.   Kevin Lewis
It is pretty much guaranteed that we are going to have a beautiful comeback in this game, since I opted not to record the remainder when Lowe was taken out. Grrrrr
2007-09-20 14:26:23
294.   overkill94
What's with Meloan's fastball? Only 89?
2007-09-20 14:26:42
295.   fanerman
I go grab lunch and I come back to find that Andy has hit a home run!
2007-09-20 14:27:06
296.   underdog
Um, Nook Meloan...settle down, man. It's going to be fine.
2007-09-20 14:27:24
297.   Kevin Lewis
What is up with Tulowitzki's photo. Did he just wake up?
2007-09-20 14:28:18
298.   fracule
2007-09-20 14:28:23
299.   Humma Kavula
That's too bad.
2007-09-20 14:28:33
300.   Gen3Blue
Well, we got to see Meloan.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-09-20 14:28:53
301.   Vishal
aw, crud.
2007-09-20 14:28:56
302.   Kevin Lewis
I accept full responsibility for that
2007-09-20 14:28:56
303.   overkill94
I guess it's tough to be sharp when you haven't pitched in two weeks
2007-09-20 14:28:57
304.   underdog

Back to Gameday for me.

Guess that'll be it for Meloan this season.

2007-09-20 14:29:47
305.   fanerman
303 Clearly, the only solution is to sit him down some more.
2007-09-20 14:29:51
306.   King of the Hobos
From Gurnick:

The Dodgers are convinced that Jonathan Broxton's arm, which he described as "sore" after allowing a game-losing homer to Brad Hawpe on Wednesday night, is tired from 80 appearances -- but not injured.

"That's a September thing, and it comes along with being 23 years old when you're in as many games as he's been in," said Little. "It happens to everyone, at some time or another."

Little said Broxton would be given "a couple of days off."

Said Honeycutt: "Most of Broxton's mistakes have been breaking balls. This is the time of year when the guys you depend on have a heck of a workload, and there's going to be some days, either mentally or physically, that you feel better or worse than other days."

2007-09-20 14:29:52
307.   sporky
They're leaving him in there. That has to mean something.
2007-09-20 14:30:12
308.   trainwreck
Rob Neyer wrote an article a few years ago about how Dierker embraced sabermetrics.
2007-09-20 14:30:17
309.   Wilbert Robinson
282 I could see the Dierker thing if only because Ned wouldn't be able to pass on a guy with a Hawaiian shirt fetish.
2007-09-20 14:30:20
310.   Dane Bramage
Figures! Meloan sits and sits, and when he gets in he's so excited he can't even pee straight. Sheesh!
2007-09-20 14:31:30
311.   fanerman
306 That's good news. Hopefully a couple days is actually a couple days. Or better yet, a week, or the rest of the season.
2007-09-20 14:32:47
312.   bhsportsguy
C'mon did you really expect him to strike out everyone he faces, he could be Roger Clemens but he is going to be nervous pitching in the big leagues.

His time up here this month was to be around a team when they are fighting for a playoff spot, no to be up here and be a cog in the bullpen. This was a reward for his work the last couple of years but remember he is only a year removed from High A ball.

2007-09-20 14:33:04
313.   Bob Timmermann
San Diego just 3 outs away from moving to 1/2 game back of Arizona.
2007-09-20 14:33:08
314.   D4P
That LaRoche. He only plays well when it doesn't count.
2007-09-20 14:34:01
315.   Jon Weisman
312 - I doubt anyone disagrees with you - I think the comments here reflect just wanting him to succeed rather than any sort of judgment.
2007-09-20 14:34:06
316.   Vishal
way to recover, meloan.
2007-09-20 14:34:06
317.   bhsportsguy
The thing I remember about Broxton's first time through, he had some rough outings but then he also struck out Pujols a few times.

Meloan will be better next year.

2007-09-20 14:34:14
318.   underdog
It's my fault actually. The Dodgers have done well today when I was following on Gameday. Any time I put MLBTV on something terrible happens. In fact, if I'd figured this out on Tuesday, things might have been different this week! It's all my fault.

So he strikes out Holliday and Atkins and gets Helton? Meloan will be a rollercoaster 'til he gets acclimated - hopefully next season.

2007-09-20 14:34:42
319.   eusmus
308 Sold.
2007-09-20 14:35:27
320.   Bluebleeder87
man, that ain't cool, I missed La Roche first BOMB, was it a moon shot or so so?
2007-09-20 14:35:43
321.   Wilbert Robinson
Meloan's fastball has always been low 90's. His plus pitches are the slider and the cutter.
2007-09-20 14:35:50
322.   underdog
315 That and cynically expecting them to sit him for a long period again if he fares poorly, but maybe that'll be proven wrong.
2007-09-20 14:35:51
323.   fanerman
312 Yes. Is 27 K/9 too much to ask?
2007-09-20 14:35:54
324.   bhsportsguy
315 But I don't think he needs to suceed today, it would be nice but that wasn't why he's here.

He was going to pitch when the game was 7-0, if he gives up a homer, who cares.

Now its 7-4 so it looks worse but I don't think it really is any different.

2007-09-20 14:36:06
325.   DaveP
318 - So he strikes out Holliday and Atkins and gets Helton? Meloan will be a rollercoaster 'til he gets acclimated - hopefully next season

He threw nothing but 88 - 89mph fastballs to the first couple hitters. He started mixing in his breaking ball and looked great.

2007-09-20 14:37:09
326.   King of the Hobos
308 This?

2007-09-20 14:37:11
327.   Dane Bramage
315 Actually, I think his long inactivity greatly exacerbated the situation. Getting in action sooner would have contributed to better nerves, no?
2007-09-20 14:37:21
328.   Bluebleeder87
I was gonna say you can't blame the kid (Meloan) for being rusty, I'm sure he'll be a fixture in spring of '08.
2007-09-20 14:38:10
329.   Gen3Blue
Have had good games so far
Has not played Kemp
2007-09-20 14:39:51
330.   Bluebleeder87

I saw a few 90mph & 91mph, I think he tops out at 95mph but is steady at 93-94 when his arm is nice a lose.

2007-09-20 14:42:03
331.   trainwreck
That would be it.
2007-09-20 14:42:28
332.   fracule
Has anyone here been to a baseball game with 92,999 other people?
2007-09-20 14:42:32
333.   Jon Weisman
324 - You're not understanding me, it appears. It's not about need. We're just rooting for the guy. It would be nice, yes - we wanted something nice.
2007-09-20 14:42:55
334.   Jon Weisman
327 - Of course.
2007-09-20 14:44:30
335.   Wilbert Robinson
I'm glad Luis is getting some cuts in before the regular season starts.
2007-09-20 14:49:04
336.   Bill Crain
308 326

Good stuff. I think I need to get a copy of Dierker's book.

2007-09-20 14:49:17
337.   bhsportsguy
333 Truce, I understand the rooting for something nice.
2007-09-20 14:49:57
338.   Vishal
that's two extra bases on juan pierre's arm in a single play.
2007-09-20 14:50:20
339.   bhsportsguy
I think Luis will get a couple of starts in Arizona, get his 2500th hit and then he will look to pack up his locker at Dodger Stadium next week.
2007-09-20 14:53:58
340.   Bob Timmermann
You asked for a truce? Don't you know Jon has the same nickname as Ulysess S. Grant?
2007-09-20 14:54:14
341.   underdog
Plus, it's a good sign they're letting Meloan both work through it and go longer here. Good sign I think, even if they've been on the two month behind schedule learning curve.
2007-09-20 14:56:03
342.   Jon Weisman
340 - Ulysses "Shifty" Grant?
2007-09-20 14:56:30
343.   overkill94
340 Uly G?
2007-09-20 14:56:50
344.   jtrichey
Dierker's bad reputation has more to do with media related things, and going agianst the book kind of things. (Joe Morgan would hate him). He took the Astros to the playoffs 4 times in 5 years, then hasn't been even interviewed since that I know of.
2007-09-20 14:57:10
345.   Daniel Zappala
a 6 run ninth? pretty please?
2007-09-20 15:00:28
346.   Bob Timmermann
The Astros players didn't like Dierker's style very much either.
2007-09-20 15:00:50
347.   Bluebleeder87
You can't really trust Bob Harvey's baseball knowledge, I swear sometimes I find my self scratching my head on some of the stuff he says.
2007-09-20 15:01:00
348.   Vishal
darn, laroche JUST got under it a little.
2007-09-20 15:02:13
349.   underdog
Why does this feel like the end of the third act of the season, with the last 9 games the bonus features, starring mostly the younger Dodger players...?
2007-09-20 15:02:37
350.   Gen3Blue
Good-bye, Tomato!!
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-09-20 15:02:41
351.   bhsportsguy
Who has the easier path to the NL West title:

Arizona (9 games left)

Los Angeles @ Arizona 9/21-9/23
Arizona @ Pittsburgh 9/25-9/27
Arizona @ Colorado 9/28-9/30

San Diego (10 games left)

Colorado @ San Diego 9/21-9/23
San Diego @ San Francisco 9/24-9/26
San Diego @ Milwaukee 9/27-9/30

2007-09-20 15:02:56
352.   Vishal
346 yeah, but that's their fault for being retrograde. a group of racists wouldn't appreciate someone coming in preaching tolerance and equality, but that doesn't make those precepts wrong or undesirable.
2007-09-20 15:03:14
353.   Vishal
2007-09-20 15:03:16
354.   Bluebleeder87
the plain ride is gonna sting a bit for the Dodgers, A SWEEP FROM THE ROX, wow.
2007-09-20 15:03:23
355.   underdog
(With the elder Tomato striking out an appropriate way to signal the end of that act.)
2007-09-20 15:04:38
356.   Vishal
351 i'd have to say the d-backs. they get to play the dodgers and pirates. the padres are facing a better team in milwaukee. plus they have an extra game.
2007-09-20 15:04:42
357.   King of the Hobos
355 Who's the younger Tomato?
2007-09-20 15:05:36
358.   Daniel Zappala
345 zero runs

Even a 10-year-old could find this discouraging.

2007-09-20 15:06:40
359.   underdog
357 Um, I dunno, but they have a lot of green players right now... who could be the "Tomatillo"?
2007-09-20 15:07:18
360.   bhsportsguy
356 However, except for that sweep in LA, Arizona has lost the other 4 series to the Dodgers this year.

Also, it really is the last big series of the year for the Dodgers unless they sweep and the Rockies sweep the Padres.

2007-09-20 15:07:46
361.   Bluebleeder87
I just saw the La Roche dinger, it was half way up the bleachers, if anything I hope we make the snakes life a living hell the next 3 days.
2007-09-20 15:09:19
362.   Bob Timmermann
You can have all the good intentions and statistical data to back you up, but if you can't get the rest of your team to buy into it, what good are they?

I've known some very good bosses who got saddled with bad employees. And then they ended up being a good boss for someone else.

2007-09-20 15:09:27
363.   ToyCannon
I can't stop playing with my new toy.

Among Dodgers since 1947, for players who have had more then 20 stolen bases and an OBP > 350 who do you think has the highest OPS+?

I would think the top two answers would surprise most people but I could be wrong.

2007-09-20 15:10:54
364.   ToyCannon
I still think the Brewers will do some damage to the Padres in that 4 game series.
2007-09-20 15:10:59
365.   DodgerBakers
Dodger fans rejoice! Ed Wade hired by Astros.

P.S. I looked but didn't see this posted. Sorry if you already knew.

2007-09-20 15:11:43
366.   Vishal
365 it was in the last thread. thanks, though!
2007-09-20 15:13:29
367.   underdog
And Griddle'd.
But we're all still happy about it. Now if only Pittsburgh can be dumb as well.
2007-09-20 15:14:40
368.   DodgerBakers
Good grief, I figured it had to be, but I didn't see it. Well, I'm still happy.
2007-09-20 15:14:42
369.   Vishal
362 fair enough, but part of the manager's job is to win over the troops. you have to actively instill the buy in and faith necessary to be successful. if you know you're right, you should be able to convince them.
2007-09-20 15:15:14
370.   Humma Kavula
Now if only Pittsburgh can be dumb as well.

Like the sun rising in the east.

2007-09-20 15:16:24
371.   sporky
Things seem very quiet on the Pittsburgh GM front. Have they asked permission to interview Logan and/or Kim?
2007-09-20 15:17:20
372.   underdog
Maybe they'll be so dumb they'll ask for permission to interview Ned Colletti instead.
2007-09-20 15:18:44
373.   Wilbert Robinson
372. !! what a perfect fit!
2007-09-20 15:18:49
374.   sporky
372 - If they were foolish enough to hire Tracy...
2007-09-20 15:18:50
375.   DodgerBakers
372. I'd like that!
2007-09-20 15:27:17
376.   sporky
Tomko with a win? What's the world coming to...
2007-09-20 15:27:24
377.   bhsportsguy
Jim Tracy will now take his swept up Pirates to Chicago and then go home to face the D-Backs.

The Phillies will play the Nats 7 out of their last 10 games.

The Rockies will play both the Padres and D-Backs in 6 of their last 9 games.

2007-09-20 16:09:06
378.   King of the Hobos
371 Nutting refuses to leak any names and all candidates are on orders not to reveal whether they are candidates. Rumors say Tony LaCava, Tony Bernazard, and Jack Zduriencik have interviewed, or are being considered.
2007-09-20 16:14:18
379.   Bob Timmermann
The team of Coonelly and Zdurienick would challenge spellcheck programs for years.
2007-09-20 16:15:53
380.   still bevens
For those of you who want to get outraged, go and check Diamond Leungs newest post.
2007-09-20 16:17:47
381.   fanerman
380 Well, the kids aren't going anywhere (we hope). If Kent thinks there's too many of them, he's free to retire.
2007-09-20 16:18:26
382.   trainwreck
Jeff Kent, get lost!
2007-09-20 16:20:31
383.   dsfan
My preferences: Broxton sits out the rest of the season. Nice job, big fella, but nothing to be gained by running you out there with a sore arm.

Abreu takes over at 2B once Kent reaches his PA threshold. Then Hu takes over at SS. If his back is OK, LaRoche gets all of the starts at 3B.

Pierre and Gonzo get a 1-2 starts but are used mostly as PHs. For the most part, the OF is Young-Kemp-Ethier.

2007-09-20 16:20:53
384.   King of the Hobos
380 Fantastic. If he's not a big fan of the kids, then he can void his option, I would assume. I just hope Ned doesn't go PVL crazy in an attempt to appease Kent.

If Kent were to retire or otherwise leave the team, would Ned claim that he was caught off guard and go sign Luis Castillo to a 5 year deal in desperation?

2007-09-20 16:21:07
385.   sporky
380 If anything, there will be more young players next year. I had assumed he would come back in 2008, but now I wonder if he'll actually retire.
2007-09-20 16:21:59
386.   LogikReader
Luis Castillo?

ding ding ding ding ding ding!

[time to augment my FA list to include 2B's]

2007-09-20 16:23:51
387.   LogikReader
off topic, but sorta on: I like what I see from Tony Abreu so far, just to make clear who I'd like to see if Kent sails away.
2007-09-20 16:24:14
388.   sporky
Or Ray Durham (wince).
2007-09-20 16:25:52
389.   Hallux Valgus
Dear Jeff Kent,
Unless someone needs advice on the best mustache wax, please stop trying to influence our younger kids. We actually enjoy things like "enthusiasm" (you may want to google that. I'm guessing your not familiar with the term).
2007-09-20 16:26:56
390.   Hallux Valgus
"I'm angry and disappointed and perplexed and bitter."

Isn't he pretty much always like that?

2007-09-20 16:28:41
391.   LogikReader
I'm hoping here that this statement leads to another Milton Bradley for Ethier like trade.
2007-09-20 16:29:01
392.   dsfan
Something like this would work for me over the final 7-10 days.

2B Abreu
CF Kemp
1B Loney
3B LaRoche
RF Ethier
C Martin
LF Young

2007-09-20 16:29:28
393.   fanerman
Argh. What I hate about having NedCo as GM is there's always a risk changing a "bad" situation for the worse instead of the better.

Kent leaving wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but there's the strong possibility of adding Luis Castillo. Doesn't a top-of-the-order of Castillo-Pierre-Furcal sound great? I bet it does to NedCo.

2007-09-20 16:36:36
394.   Bluebleeder87

what a JOKE! The dude should just retire.

2007-09-20 16:37:46
395.   Vishal
392 eh, i'd be inclined to rest martin and let lieberthal play most of the games. especially if martin hits his 20th.
2007-09-20 16:38:08
396.   trainwreck
I may really dislike Ned and his moves and think he will do bad things, but even I do not think he is that dumb.
2007-09-20 16:38:10
397.   sporky
While we're considering nightmare situations, how about Marcus Giles?
2007-09-20 16:38:56
398.   underdog
Btw, this is what I wrote in comments on Leung's blog (not sure when/if it'll get posted, so...)

Thanks for posting that. I wonder if Jeff Kent has looked at the statistics for this season? The "young players" basically outplayed the veterans in every facet of the game. This comment makes me hope he doesn't come back. I'm sure he's also just very frustrated, which is understandable, and maybe didn't think through the veil of his emotions, but logically, anyone who's watched this season with both eyes open will know that Kent is completely wrong.

2007-09-20 16:40:03
399.   King of the Hobos
The Nats are really enjoying their role as spoiler. Currently 4-2 Nats over Phils in the second.
2007-09-20 16:40:46
400.   Bluebleeder87
I meant my reply to 380 sorry fanerman, but seriously Kent & his little motorcyle reading ways should go els were if he doesn't like the '08 Dodgers.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-09-20 16:40:50
401.   fanerman
396 Yeah, I suppose you're right. We already have 2 "lead-off" hitters. No way Ned thinks having 3 would be ideal. Still, not sure who Ned would target to replace Kent...
2007-09-20 16:40:55
402.   JoeyP
Especially when you have a lot of them, it's hard to influence a group of them. I don't know why they dont get it etc.. professionalism, how to manufacture runs, how to keep your emotions in it."

Manufacture runs? Ughh...
And i thought Jeff Kent was one of the cool ones.

Can this Ned Colletti veteran-ness/PVL nightmare end please?

2007-09-20 16:42:48
403.   King of the Hobos
397 Giles potentially could remember how to OPS in the .800s, whereas Castillo would just hit like Pierre with a few more walks.

I personally would want Ned to sign Jose Valentin.

2007-09-20 16:43:31
404.   Tangled Up in Blue
Kent sounds like an old man who begins each sentence with, "in my days we...".

Calling out the kids in the press doesnt show me much professionalism.

2007-09-20 16:44:34
405.   fanerman
402 If Kent left, I imagine NedCo would try to replace his PVL...
2007-09-20 16:44:55
406.   Michael Green
About Kent. In a recent game, Loney was at second and Kent at first. A ball got away from the catcher out in front of the plate. Loney held, either because he felt he couldn't get to third or Donnelly told him to hold. Kent ran toward second, got caught, and ended up being thrown out trying to get back to first. Kent stood there glaring at Loney. My first thought was, why were you going? Why didn't you check the coaches to see if you should go? But instead, Kent glared at the other guy. I guess everything is somebody else's fault.

Now for the worst part. I'm no Milton Bradley fan. But I thought to myself, I wonder if Kent would have glared that way at, say, Ethier or LaRoche?

2007-09-20 16:45:59
407.   Bluebleeder87

I left a comment over there as well, but I don't think it's gonna get approved.

2007-09-20 16:46:33
408.   regfairfield
396 We've done similar stupid things before. Butler! Offerman! DeShields! That's 130 steals at the top of the order. Thank God Mike kept that lineup from happening that often.
2007-09-20 16:47:07
409.   fanerman
406 I've always had the impression that Jeff Kent hates everything equally. Except motorcycles.
2007-09-20 16:47:28
410.   JoeyP
Bradley was a 'younger' player and he didnt take Kent's barbs. He talked back to him and put him in his place.

I'd love to see one of our young players just put Jeff Kent in his place...i.e out to pasture.

2007-09-20 16:48:49
411.   regfairfield
409 And trucks. Kent isn't going to throw away nine million guaranteed (I don't think he can), and he's one of our best hitters, so whatever. If he hits we'll do well.
2007-09-20 16:49:07
412.   bhsportsguy
406 I think the second part is off, he was just looking at him like any player.

And as someone who does say things like back in my day, I would imagine that part of what he said (and again the problem of we hate guys who say nothing and they say something we get mad) is frustration but they were carrying 11 extra guys, which is a lot no matter how you slice it.

2007-09-20 16:49:38
413.   Bluebleeder87
yup, your reminded of "stuff"/shenanigans he him self has done, like I said what I joke.
2007-09-20 16:51:46
414.   bhsportsguy
410 No matter what you think of him, the guy still is a productive player, I have never seen him dog it and if we give out plaudits, remains to be one of Paul DePodesta's best deals.

Like it or not, they should watch how he approaches the game and how he acts on the field, they could be a little nicer off the field but the guy has played well as a Dodger from where I sit.

2007-09-20 16:51:46
415.   Dodgers49
94 Our only real chance to secure our first rounder would be to lose just about every game from now on.

We appear to be well on our way to doing just that.

2007-09-20 16:52:30
416.   JoeyP
Thats not true. People hate guys who speak dumbly, not one's that are silent.

If Kent has said, "The young players kept us afloat this year, and us veterans let them down..."---I doubt many would find a problem with that.

But again, its why baseball is so messed up bc it in the end its an old boy network and people are judged more on PVL than talent.

Thats why the NFL is so so so much better. Doesnt matter if ur old or young---if you cant play, you get cut. 10 yr vet, life long player with the team---if you arent good enough to make the 53-man you're cut.

2007-09-20 16:53:28
417.   King of the Hobos
411 He could demand a trade though, which potentially could be valuable to the Dodgers.
2007-09-20 16:54:50
418.   fanerman
417 You mean we could trade him instead of LaRoche for a middle reliever?
2007-09-20 16:55:32
419.   JoeyP
414--He's productive, but the Dodgers should have been ready to hand his job off to Andy LaRoche for next year. Now that Kent's option vests, he's probably here another year. The scared thought is he'll have a Steve Finley-like dropoff eventually.
2007-09-20 16:56:40
420.   fanerman
418 I'm sorry. Thinking about GM moves makes me more cynical than usual.
2007-09-20 16:57:16
421.   Bluebleeder87

yeah, I suppose he has & his bat IS needed with the lack of power on this team, hopefully Ned gets us a power bat for '08.

2007-09-20 16:57:48
422.   underdog
414 No doubt he's been productive, and even this year, with 'tail end of his career' model Kent, he's still been pretty decent, and I've been totally fine with his surliness because he's always been competitive and a gamer. But calling out kids like that in the press is incredibly unclassy - even if it were true, which it isn't. If he wasn't future hall of famer Jeff Kent, he'd probably be asked to make a public apology, even.

And, yeah, I've seen as much or even more bad baserunning from Kent than I have from Kemp and company the past month so if he wants to point fingers he should start by looking in his mirror.

2007-09-20 16:59:20
423.   regfairfield
419 No matter how much you wish it Andy LaRoche isn't a second baseman. The last time he played there was, at earliest, high school, and even then I'm just guessing.

LaRoche isn't a stellar defensive third baseman and bumping him two spots up the defensive spectrum is a guaranteed disaster.

2007-09-20 17:00:09
424.   trainwreck
If any of the veterans have a problem with a youth movement then ship them out. If they think we are not trying to win, then fine we will accommodate you and get you out of here.

We need to play these youngsters and if you don't like it then get the fudge out!

2007-09-20 17:01:22
425.   bhsportsguy
416 But Kent did not let anyone down, he had a good year. The problem with his statement is that I have no idea who is talking about, is that based on one game, half a year what.

I have heard him say that he thinks there a lot of good young players that can play too (on his Prime Ticket interview).

I think the frustration blew up over the last couple of weeks starting in San Francisco and ending here.

Probably what set it off was the continued merry-go-around at third base, by now Loney and Kemp have been around, they make some mistakes but those are outweighed by their talent.

But my guess is that certain guys felt that Nomar and Gonzo should get most of the time and unless he was tired, Kent probably should play too.

All this being said, I think it is a poor choice of words and is something that should have been kept in the clubhouse.

2007-09-20 17:01:43
426.   Humma Kavula
In the NHBA, Bill James wrote about Kevin Brown -- I'm paraphrasing; I don't remember exactly -- "I don't root for him either, but he is a hell of a pitcher."

That's how I feel about Jeff Kent. I consider him a no-doubt Hall of Famer. He likely has a few -- maybe several -- years of productivity left in him. If he were to decline his option or demand a trade or retire, I would not miss him.

2007-09-20 17:04:06
427.   Dodgers49
142. Did anybody think we'd come to Colorado and get swept?

I actually felt good about this series (shows how unrealistic I am :-) ). I thought we'd win 3 of 4. In fact, I figured if we were able to beat Jeff Frances we would have a great chance to sweep them. I thought the very worst that would happen would be a split. The Rockies sweeping us never entered my mind. I guess it should have. :-)

2007-09-20 17:05:45
428.   bhsportsguy
424 Here's the key, they didn't sign up for a youth movement, this wasn't Arizona where they did basically tell everyone they were going do it, or Florida or Colorado where it just happens because hey its Florida and Colorado.

No, this is what happens when you try to bridge the gap without totally going young.
And again, its give insight to what Grady had to deal with for the last few months.

So any frustration has to go to Ned because he created this mess if it is a mess because there is no way, Gonzo signs if he thinks he would be part of some rotation and Nomar didn't sign to get pushed out by Loney.

So I don't think you can tell guys to leave a party if they didn't know that was the party they were going to.

2007-09-20 17:06:18
429.   trainwreck
I was getting Rockies feed, so can anyone inform me how the bench re-acted to LaRoche when he came into the clubhouse after hitting his first home run. I hope they showed some courtesy and gave him good congratulations.
2007-09-20 17:07:26
430.   Bob Timmermann
I believe the home run was celebrated like any other home run when the team is behind.
2007-09-20 17:07:46
431.   trainwreck
Sure you can. This is sports. The Dodgers have the right to do whatever the feel is best for the team.
2007-09-20 17:08:57
432.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-09-20 17:09:55
433.   sporky
428 - I agree. But Kent, Nomar and Gonzo had to know that they were bridge players. In a best case scenario, they would play 85% of the time, but if the kids were for real, their playing time would get slashed. It's unrealistic for the vets to expect that their PT would never be threatened.

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