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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

And To Think They Wore All Those Funny Costumes Without Complaint ...
2007-09-20 17:00
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Jeff Kent had a fine offensive season, but next to him, Takashi Saito and Brad Penny, it was the kids who kept the Dodgers in contention.

Apparently, that's not how Kent sees it, according to Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise:

According to Kent, one of the problems was the amount of young players on the team.

"Especially when you have a lot of them, it's hard to influence a group of them. I don't know why they don't get it - professionalism, how to manufacture runs, how to keep your emotions in it."

"I'm angry and disappointed and perplexed and bitter."

Dodger Thoughts commenter BHsportsguy offers this reaction:

I have heard him say that he thinks there a lot of good young players that can play too (on his Prime Ticket interview).

I think the frustration blew up over the last couple of weeks starting in San Francisco and ending here.

Probably what set it off was the continued merry-go-around at third base, by now Loney and Kemp have been around, they make some mistakes but those are outweighed by their talent.

But my guess is that certain guys felt that Nomar and Gonzo should get most of the time and unless he was tired, Kent probably should play too.

All this being said, I think it is a poor choice of words and is something that should have been kept in the clubhouse.

I agree that the Dodgers, young and old, probably have lots of steam to let out over the team's late-summer collapse.

Still, Dodger rookies have my permission to sit the next hazing ritual out.

Update: Ken Gurnick has more at MLB.com:

"Right now, I can't give an answer to the future. I'm trying to get through the emotions of the season right now, rather than about the possibility of next year.

"We're in a bad spot right now. Elimination time is three games away. Soon, we'll give up the ghost and it's going to be painful. We're close to the end of the season and close to the end of a career for me. I'm running out of time and a lot of kids don't understand that. They haven't been there."

When you hear there's a split between the older Dodgers and the younger ones, some of it can get a little personal, especially when somebody's inevitably about to take away your job. But for Kent, it's strictly professional. He remembers being a young player that respected veterans and learned from them and he doesn't see that happening with this generation, or at least the large group of 20-somethings in his clubhouse.

"I don't know what it is, but especially when you have a lot of them, it's hard to influence a lot of them," he said. "Don't get me wrong -- we have a lot of good kids. But it's hard to translate experience. I don't know why they don't get it.

"It's professionalism. It's manufacturing runs, keeping your emotions in it. Experience can pull you through more than inexperience, experience helps more than inexperience. It's hard to give experience, just like that," Kent said, snapping his fingers.

Kent seems to be saying that the kids are talented but misbehaved - kind of like my kids. Perhaps the kids aren't respectful enough; perhaps they aren't suffering enough, feeling enough disappointment. Still, I wonder, considering how well the kids performed, how much they contributed to the cause, why is he pointing the finger only at them? And certainly, has the effort of the core kids been any less at all than that put out by the grownups?

Update 2: Al Balderas' version of Kent's quote in the Register:

"How do you teach the young kids?" Kent asked. "I don't know if the older guys said that about me when I was a young kid, too. I don't know what it is. Especially when you have a lot of them, it's hard to influence a big group of them. We've got some good kids on this team. Please don't misinterpret my impression of them. But as far as trying to translate experience, I don't know why they don't get it."

Update 3: And now Kevin Baxter in the Times:

"You can use all your fingers on your hand and point around," he said. "There's many, many things that have happened that are perplexing. Many things that have happened that are curious. Many things that have happened that are unfortunate.

"And you can't really put a finger on it. But you can point to it. Those things are disappointing. And frustrating as well."

Asked if those curious and perplexing things included Manager Grady Little's daily lineups and the coaching staff's game strategy, Kent responded: "Everything." ...

There has been an obvious and growing tension all season between the Dodgers' veterans and youngsters. Publicly, at least, that discord had remained largely under control and Kent is the only one who has spoken out on the record.

But as the Dodgers' postseason hopes began to fade, costing both the 39-year-old Kent and 40-year-old Luis Gonzalez what could be their final shot at a second World Series, the tension has bubbled to the surface.

Comments (379)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-20 17:10:01
1.   natepurcell
why are there soooo many obstacles for a big market team to go through a youth movement? Unbelievable.
2007-09-20 17:12:53
2.   trainwreck
By the way, in the previous thread I was talking about next season. So that means Luis, Kent, Saenz, etc have the opportunity to go elsewhere if they feel like it.

If Nomar and others want to leave too then that is fine and we can accommodate them by trading them.

2007-09-20 17:13:34
3.   Jacob L
Responding to 428 in the last thread, which said, basically, that you can't blame the old guys for being upset, because they didn't know they signed up for a youth movement.

Sure, but the elephant in the room is that the young guys outperformed the old guys, with Kent as the lone exception. He probably thinks he's sticking up for Gonzo and Nomar who, in the end, lost their jobs, or portions of their jobs, fair and square. You'd think that type of perspective might factor in at some point. You're right, it does put Grady in a different light.

By the way, wasn't it Diamond Leung who last week disputed the claim that the Dodgers had clubhouse problems?

2007-09-20 17:13:47
4.   Bob Timmermann
Angry, disappointed, perplex, and bitter is a superfecta of emotions that's hard to pull off.

I think I've done three of those at once, but I'm not a professional athlete, so I can't get four emotions like that at once.

2007-09-20 17:15:36
5.   trainwreck
4
Jeff Kent thinks you lack professionalism that is why you can't have four emotions at once.
2007-09-20 17:15:36
6.   Jon Weisman
428 - BH, regarding your last comment, I have to disagree. Arizona didn't warn Gonzalez before he signed his final Diamondbacks contract about its impending youth movement any more than the Dodgers did. Nomar knew that Loney was coming up fast at first base. It's fine for the vets to expect they would be able to beat the kids out, but it's not fair to say there was no warning about Ethier/Kemp and Loney. That's like coming down in favor of someone suing because his coffee was too hot.
2007-09-20 17:15:57
7.   bhsportsguy
1 1. Not many of the 3.8 million fans who bought tickets (outside of the DodgerThoughts community) really follow the farm system so it is easier to market guys who have already played for a while.
2. It alienates the older guys already on the team.
3. Youth movement means to a lot of people, rebuilding which means no chance of winning.
4. It has never been proven that fans will ever accept a youth movement for future gains.
2007-09-20 17:16:05
8.   Jon Weisman
3 - Yes, it was.
2007-09-20 17:16:27
9.   Humma Kavula
BHsportsguy has a real point.

A few weeks back when SI ran their face of the franchise thing, it was an interesting exercise... but I wonder if the face of the franchise is really Nomar Garciaparra.

2007-09-20 17:16:28
10.   Jacob L
4 Actually, I've had those exact 4 going for most of the day, and it has nothing to do with sports.
2007-09-20 17:16:54
11.   fanerman
Also a reply to last thread's 428...

That's a fair point with Gonzo and Nomar, but Kent didn't lose his job and that's not what he complained about. Neither is he really in danger of losing his job if he returns (and certainly people here haven't complained about him manning 2B again like we have with Nomar, etc). I don't think he was really standing up for guys like Gonzo and Nomar as much as he was complaining about winning and the recent choke job.

I think the main issue is that Kent is being 1) irrational (the kids have carried the vets more than the other way around) and 2) hypocritical (ie, he's made dumb mistakes, too).

Kent signed up to win (and to play and to make money). If he comes back next year he has a good chance to do just that. He just doesn't seem to realize the kids help more than the typical PVL would (or he's frustrated and said something he didn't really mean).

2007-09-20 17:18:02
12.   Jon Weisman
7 - The fact that people in Los Angeles (not just at DT, but calling KFWB, etc.) are furious with Little for not playing the kids more, I feel, goes a long way to disprove #4 on your list. How many people in Los Angeles complaining that Gonzalez didn't play enough?
2007-09-20 17:18:10
13.   Bluebleeder87
from last thread. I was getting Rockies feed, so can anyone inform me how the bench re-acted to LaRoche when he came into the clubhouse after hitting his first home run. I hope they showed some courtesy and gave him good congratulations.

La Roche cut kind of reminded me of a young Lieberthal, I'm basing this on only one home run of course but it did look pretty cool.

2007-09-20 17:18:51
14.   sporky
I wonder if the vets' complaints led to Kemp and his interesting base-running getting benched so often. He wasn't even used to pinch hit!
2007-09-20 17:18:54
15.   natepurcell
7

dont fans want the next Fernando? the next Orel...the next Piazza. I feel that if the Dodgers devoted a marketing strategy to promote the young players, it could work. I think fans of teams almost always want a homegrown superstar rather then a mercenary.

I dunno, it just seems the Dodgers didn't even try. For God sakes, even Brett Tomko had a stupid huge banner.

2007-09-20 17:18:59
16.   Bob Timmermann
10
Yeah, but you probably haven't slept well for two months.
2007-09-20 17:19:01
17.   trainwreck
I believe Barry Bonds has said the reason Kent and him got in a fight was because Kent was laying into a young player for no reason.
2007-09-20 17:20:13
18.   Humma Kavula
12 Callers are not exactly clamoring for LaRoche or Hu or Young or Abreu. They like the kids who are hitting.

And fans at the game still cheer loudest for the third baseman with the funny name.

2007-09-20 17:20:54
19.   trainwreck
18
I think that is because of his ethnicity.
2007-09-20 17:21:23
20.   Dodgers49
Of all the things Kent said I think what causes me the most concern is his admission that he is now bitter.
2007-09-20 17:21:44
21.   Humma Kavula
19 Maybe true, but doesn't matter.
2007-09-20 17:21:45
22.   trainwreck
I remember when everyone was excited about a kid named Beltre and I had no idea who he was.
2007-09-20 17:21:58
23.   Jacob L
16 True dat.
2007-09-20 17:22:25
24.   fanerman
How much do the fans embrace Russell? He's an all-star. He should headline the youth movement. Kemp, Loney, Broxton, and Billingsley aren't far behind. We've been pretty lucky that those 5 (and Ethier, but he's sort of an A's prospect) have succeeded at the big level so soon. It ought to make marketing them easy...
2007-09-20 17:22:53
25.   Jim Hitchcock
17 No kidding? That's pretty interesting.
2007-09-20 17:23:24
26.   sporky
24 - If anything, market their looks. Pimp them out to GQ or something.
2007-09-20 17:23:45
27.   Bob Timmermann
24
I would say that Martin is one of the most popular players with the fans at the stadium and next year, he likely will be the most popular without question.
2007-09-20 17:23:59
28.   trainwreck
If we are winning, fans will show up. Regardless of who is on the team.
2007-09-20 17:24:27
29.   underdog
For some reason I thought of the punch line to that Monty Python sketch about the dirty knife at a restaurant, that sends the whole staff into a downward spiral of anger and suicide. "Good thing I didn't tell them about the dirty fork!"

Anyway, reposting my last comment from previous thread just, 'cause...

No doubt he's been productive, and even this year, with 'tail end of his career' model Kent, he's still been pretty decent, and I've been totally fine with his surliness because he's always been competitive and a gamer. But calling out kids like that in the press is incredibly unclassy - even if it were true, which it isn't. If he wasn't future hall of famer Jeff Kent, he'd probably be asked to make a public apology, even.

And, yeah, I've seen as much or even more bad baserunning from Kent than I have from Kemp and company the past month so if he wants to point fingers he should start by looking in his mirror.

2007-09-20 17:24:28
30.   Jacob L
17 Define "no reason." Was it Marvin Benard? Hey, Benard, you've got a funny name. And you don't know how to manufacture runs.
2007-09-20 17:24:36
31.   Damon
Jeff Kent is just mad we have alot of black players on the dodgers
2007-09-20 17:24:45
32.   Wilbert Robinson
11 - Kent signed up to win (and to play and to make money).

Kent disagrees about the money part in an article after signing his last contract:

"I'm willing to dedicate myself for another couple of years. It's safe to say I'm proud to be able to retire a Dodger. I'm 99.9 percent sure this is the last contract of my career.''

"It's not about the money. I've got enough money,'' Kent said. "After I talked with Mr. McCourt last night, and I got this feeling when I spoke with him over the winter, I felt his integrity and passion to put the Dodgers back on the map as a perennial contender. My last four or five years, all I've wanted was to be part of a winner.''

and then there's the macho business from Colletti:

"To me, he's got Hall of Fame credentials. He's as competitive as anyone,'' Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti said. "You look at his last 10 years and he plays a lot, plays hurt, plays through just about everything. I think he's one of the best players on the club.''

http://tinyurl.com/26uebv

2007-09-20 17:26:06
33.   trainwreck
30
I can't remember.
2007-09-20 17:26:58
34.   natepurcell
24

I definitely agree. I do not think it would be too hard to start a new marketing campaigned headlined by Russ and with all the other kids. The Dodgers have a great base to build on because the younger players are actually performing and performing at an extremely high level. It just seems there is absolutely no need for Colletti to acquire veterans just because they are a recognizable name for fans.

2007-09-20 17:28:43
35.   bhsportsguy
The only kid I can think of is playing Matt Kemp everyday, outside of that who else?

Circumstances prevented Andy LaRoche from playing when he would have a lot of time to grow back in August, and I can't see the manager playing him anymore than he did in September.

Tony Abreu or Chin-Lung Hu for Furcal, maybe, I don't know, but that would have been a pretty bold move.

Who else, Stults, Houlton instead of Loiaza?

I agree, Matt Kemp should have been a fixture in right field but besides that but how many more kids really could have played this year as it played out.

2007-09-20 17:29:20
36.   Jeromy
The natural instinct here is to ridicule Jeff Kent. Yes, the kids have talent, and I agree they should get more playing time than some of the aging veterans.

But what he is talking about here: "I don't know why they don't get it - professionalism, how to manufacture runs, how to keep your emotions in it." is about maturity and expectation.

Coming from Kent, I believe he's saying that the younger players don't yet know how to handle the adversity/pressure of a playoff run. Kent, as much as he's chronicled as a jerk, is also universally known as having a highly competitive, killer instinct style of play. Perhaps he believes some of the kids could have produced more had they felt like it. . . .been more dedicated to it. And if that was my perspective, I would be "angry and disappointed and perplexed and bitter", too.

2007-09-20 17:29:47
37.   LAT
4. I think Jeff is overstating his emotional versatility. You can't have all four emotions at once. If you are perplexed how do you know what you are angry, disappointed, and bitter about? Conversely, if you know what you are angry, disappointed, and bitter about you aren't perplexed. So which is it?
2007-09-20 17:29:56
38.   underdog
I will say this final comment from Kent is understandable and fair: "I'm angry and disappointed and perplexed and bitter."

Ditto!

2007-09-20 17:30:27
39.   Bluebleeder87
24

very easy, I'm pretty sure '08 will show case there talents far more than PVL. The Marketing Team (is it a team?) would be foolish not to market the likes of Russell Martin, James Loney & Matt Kemp, Nomar will do his Sunday carne asade & all is well in DodgerLand.

2007-09-20 17:31:38
40.   Bob Timmermann
37
See, LAT and I are back on the same page again.
2007-09-20 17:31:45
41.   Jon Weisman
See update to this post abouve
2007-09-20 17:32:52
42.   trainwreck
I swear this is not the first or second time Kent has questioned others desire.

And if he is counting Martin in that group then he is nuts, because Martin plays the game harder than Kent does. Also, Andre Ethier probably shows the most emotion of anyone on the team after at bats.

2007-09-20 17:34:06
43.   Bluebleeder87
30

Benard went to high school with a friend of mine.

2007-09-20 17:34:35
44.   underdog
"If it weren't for all these newbies posting here on Dodger Thoughts, this would be a much more successful blog!" - if Jeff Kent were nate or Bob or underdog

Okay, I need to go to the gym, work off all my pent-up aggression.

2007-09-20 17:34:42
45.   Jacob L
I'm worried about where this is going, unless Kent just admits that he was out of line. The options, as I see them -

1. Kent retires. I just don't see this happening.
2. Kent re-ups, and is told, this is the program, so get with it.
3. Kent re-ups, and management tries to accommodate his need to not have so many young guys around.

None of these are good. 3 is an obvious disaster, but can any of us say its out of the question? When Ned gets this chorus of PVLs coming into his office saying that a team with this much youth just won't work, will he be able to see through that? And then the inevitable barrage of newsprint supporting the PVL point of view?

2007-09-20 17:35:25
46.   Bob Timmermann
43
Marvin Benard is the greatest Bell High Eagle ever. And the greatest major leaguer to come out of Cudahy.

He's probably the only major leaguer who knows where Cudahy is.

Cudahy is one of four cities in L.A. County I have never been in and the other three are the gated cities.

2007-09-20 17:37:54
47.   Jacob L
46 I can get you into Rolling Hills. I can get you into Cudahy for that matter.
2007-09-20 17:38:02
48.   ToyCannon
My fondest wish is that he finds somewhere else to play next season or retires. My deepest fear is that Kent has Ned's ear.

This theory that the little things win games and is still propagated by men who've never played little ball in their life but expect others to, drives me up a wall.

Productive outs............

2007-09-20 17:38:54
49.   Gen3Blue
I don't blame Kent or any other Dodger for being frustrated and peeved right now. But right now Jeff sounds like a good candidate for next manager of the Giants, and after cooling down for a month or two I doubt that would appeal to him.
2007-09-20 17:38:54
50.   Bob Timmermann
Down 3-1 in the 5th and nobody out, Hanley Ramirez tried to steal third. As soon as he broke, Marlins relieve Taylor Tankersley, who was on a headset talking to the booth, said, "Oh no..."

Ramirez was out from me to Palm Beach.

Dan Uggla followed with a single.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-20 17:39:11
51.   CanuckDodger
Old players never like young players, seeing them as a cheap labor pool trying to steal their jobs. And then there is the fact that young people are just generally annoying, something I feel more and more the closer I get to 40. But I love the Dodgers' young players because, you know, its not like I have to be around them.
2007-09-20 17:39:27
52.   Humma Kavula
41 The update changes the tenor of his remarks somewhat. In that, he does not seem to be arguing for playing time for the PVL players over the kids. He realizes that the kids are going to play, no matter what.

He just seems like a grumpy old man, talking about the way he did things in the old days and telling the press to get off his lawn. He is complaining for no reason and it has no resonance at all with me.

Whatever. It's Jeff Kent. He says stuff like that, and sometimes, he gets quoted saying it.

2007-09-20 17:40:06
53.   ToyCannon
46
Cudahy was the worse city I've ever been in when I drove for a living. If you weren't carefull the cockroaches would carry you away.
2007-09-20 17:40:16
54.   tjshere
For years my family owned a business in Cudahy. I have spent much time there during my life.

You aren't missing anything.

2007-09-20 17:40:21
55.   bhsportsguy
And putting all the PVL aside, if and its a big if because I am not in the clubhouse, the young guys should at least respect the guys who have played the game professionally longer than many of them have played the game in their entire lives.

I heard Andre Ethier say last week that he rarely makes it to early BP but he does his work when his name is on the sheet.

Now, he has every right to not go to anything he isn't required to do but he is also a second year player that probably hasn't figured everything out yet. And that could rub guys the wrong way if they think you are not "respecting the game."

Maybe the life should just be measured in merit and how and why you do things shouldn't matter but generally that isn't how things work out.

The reason why the Juan Pierres get praised is that it is probably believed that they do everything possilble to get the most out of their talent, now the Dodgers have some guys with great talent but are they now willing to put in the work to continue to get better now that they have reached the big leagues.

That question remains unanswered for now.

2007-09-20 17:41:20
56.   trainwreck
I think Jeff is just sad that he realizes he may end up with no World Series ring and is just venting and the youth are getting the brunt of it.
2007-09-20 17:41:59
57.   Icaros
I now join D4P and others in the Jeff Kent Hatred Circle. He's an ass.
2007-09-20 17:42:36
58.   Bluebleeder87
53

that's pretty crazy cause my buddy is a truck driver.

2007-09-20 17:43:38
59.   Bob Timmermann
I once had a plan to drive through all the incorporated cities in L.A. County.

I didn't go through with it.

Miguel Cabrera hits a 3-run homer to put Florida up 4-3.

2007-09-20 17:43:47
60.   Jeromy
So, if the young guys aren't respecting the older players (like Kent who is still producing); aren't trying to learn from their experience; and team isn't winning when the expectation is that they should; the Dodgers should just get rid of the old guys or it will be a disaster.

What's wrong with publicly saying that the young guys still have a lot to learn?

2007-09-20 17:44:15
61.   tjshere
58 Even crazier: The family business was a trucking company.
2007-09-20 17:44:21
62.   LAT
Maybe they don't need experience from the vets. Martin didn't require a vet's guiding hand. He was given an opportunity, owned the job and never looked back. Just ask Dioner. Loney appears on the same path. Maybe he's talking about Laroche or Abrau but for the most part if your Martin, Loney, Kemp or Bills you are holding your own and don't need a vet to tell you what to do. Especially when these guys are out-playing the vets.
2007-09-20 17:45:18
63.   Jeromy
I don't think Kent is worried that someone is taking his job. Kent just wants to win.
2007-09-20 17:45:54
64.   trainwreck
57
This is why I love Icaros. Straight to the point.
2007-09-20 17:46:44
65.   bhsportsguy
Oh and thanks Jon for again making me the Point/Counterpoint guy.

But am I Dan Ackroyd or Jane Curtin?

2007-09-20 17:47:48
66.   Bob Timmermann
65
I'm an old school guy. I think you're more like Nicholas von Hoffman.
2007-09-20 17:49:17
67.   Humma Kavula
I'm curious about what's meant by respect.

I recently moved to a new neighborhood. I met my new neighbor, who was playing with her kids in the front lawn. I introduced myself to the kids.

"My name is Humma," I said. (I didn't really say Humma.)

"Do you mind if they call you Mister Kavula?" said my neighbor. "I'm trying to teach them respect."

I'm all for respect. I'm a big fan of treating people -- everyone -- the right way. The golden rule is maybe the wisest thing anyone's ever thought of.

But a lot of times, things get filed into "respect" that have nothing to do with that. What does calling me by my first name have to do with respect?

I know my example is entirely unrelated, but I wonder if there's a similar thing going on. Just because Jeff Kent spews his crazy opinions doesn't mean you have to listen to him; you can still respect what he's accomplished in the game.

2007-09-20 17:49:19
68.   Bob Timmermann
Kane Davis had a chance for a four strikeout inning as he had Jason Bergmann up with two outs, but Bergmann merely grounded out.
2007-09-20 17:50:04
69.   RELX
Maybe Kent is just upset because the young players don't want to talk to HIM?
2007-09-20 17:50:15
70.   Bluebleeder87
you gotta believe Kent is just talking out of frustration, like most everybody thinks.
2007-09-20 17:51:32
71.   Bob Timmermann
67
I see your point, but I don't think you picked the best example. I think children should call adults Mr. or Ms. Surname unless they have known each other for a while.

And get off my lawn!

2007-09-20 17:53:57
72.   Bob Timmermann
69
That happens a lot in organizations. It's a very big deal among librarians. The older librarians can be quite resentful of younger librarians who don't ask them for help.

On the other hand, I find the younger librarians to be quite an asset. Mainly because they seem to like to do a lot of work.

2007-09-20 17:54:24
73.   ToyCannon
I'm nearing 50 and everytime I hear Mr, my skin still crawls.
2007-09-20 17:55:15
74.   Bob Timmermann
73
Nearing 50? Really, you don't look a day over 45.
2007-09-20 17:57:28
75.   Jon Weisman
60 - I don't see any problem with saying kids have more to learn, except 1) grownups have more to learn too and 2) placing blame for the season on the kids' inexperience. The context is a bit of a bummer.
2007-09-20 18:00:04
76.   LAT
Wow I was getting ready to post something else when I saw that TC is nearing 50. No way! I always assumed you were early 40s, maybe even 39ish.

My real post was going to be in reply 56 . I think he already got a ring in 1992 when he came up with the Blue Jays.

2007-09-20 18:00:32
77.   Eric Enders
Jeff Kent can kiss my you-know-what. And that's all I have to say about that.

Oh, one more thing: Good riddance, old man. Your sparkling personality and your spectacular baserunning snafus won't be missed. Enjoy your Hall of Fame induction. The only people in attendance will be your wife and kids.

2007-09-20 18:01:44
78.   DodgerfaninNY
67- When I grew up in the 60's, you wouldn't think of calling a grown-up by their first name. Yet all the kids in my neighborhood call all the adults (other than their parents) by their first name and we have alot of kids on the block. I don't know when that all changed...
2007-09-20 18:02:28
79.   Marty
Who's to say Kent is even correct? As my circle of friends say when they can't figure someone out "Maybe, he's just an {expletive deleted}"

Just the other day we heard a story that Kent as a rookie didn't like the "wear the funny costume" ritual. Now, all of a sudden it's that the kids don't get it. Maybe they don't get that they are obviously better but don't get to play?

I can't figure Kent out, he's all over the place. Maybe he's just an ...

2007-09-20 18:05:58
80.   Bluebleeder87
76

yeah, he's an old dude LAT, I tell him he looks young for being old but for some reason I got bad feed back when I said that (from Bob & TC, if I remember correctly it was in good humor though)

2007-09-20 18:06:36
81.   Slikk
Kent is just frustrated. Remember the time period he came up in was very, very different! Young players were much different than today's players. And we all know Kent's personality by now, the whole "respect the game and respect me" thing he got from his dad. This is the way he is.

Also keep in mind that the media tends to print the stuff that will make the most waves. Who knows what else he said of importance.

That said, he should have bit his tongue. But Jeff doesn't do that. He's emotional and he hates to lose. If we're in Kent's position I'm sure we would be thinking the same thing, but we probably wouldn't say it.

2007-09-20 18:12:54
82.   D4P
"We would have made the playoffs if it weren't for you meddling kids!"
2007-09-20 18:15:48
83.   Sam DC
Old Friend Jayson Werth hits a 3 run shot to close it to 6-5 Nationals.

And now Rollins doubles . . . still no outs in the seventh.

2007-09-20 18:16:09
84.   Bob Timmermann
Old friend Jayson Werth comes off the bench to hit a 3-run homer in the 7th to cut the Nats lead to 6-5.
2007-09-20 18:16:48
85.   Bob Timmermann
Stupid spinning color wheel on my Mac!
2007-09-20 18:18:34
86.   Bluebleeder87
judging on how well the Dodgers play in Arizona I'm thinking we'll take 2 of 3 or even sweep, It's just frustrating what happened in Colorado, oh well.
2007-09-20 18:19:03
87.   Bob Timmermann
I think Charlie Manuel fared out well getting Werth up to face Munoz instead of LaForest facing Ayala.
2007-09-20 18:19:29
88.   Eric Enders
I never called adults Mr or Mrs when I was growing up. For quite a while I was an only child, and am by far the oldest of all my cousins. So at family gatherings and so forth I was usually the only kid there. I was basically participating in adult conversations and acting like an adult from a very early age, and everybody else was calling each other by their first names, so I never learned to do otherwise. I'm sure my parents tried to teach me but it didn't stick.

I did call my teachers Mr and Mrs, though. That is, except for the ones whom I wanted to drive crazy -- those I'd call by their first names just to get a rise out of them.

2007-09-20 18:21:35
89.   Bob Timmermann
88
I was never called Mrs. when I was growing up either. I'm still waiting.
2007-09-20 18:21:50
90.   Eric Enders
87 Is that LaForest as in the Padres' LaForest? He plays for Philly now? I must've misplaced my third-string catcher scorecard again.
2007-09-20 18:22:27
91.   Sam DC
Now 6-6 at RFK. And Utley just get picked off first but the Phillies got the call.

3 games left at RFK after this one.

Oh -- Ryan Howard plunked and he does not look happy.

2007-09-20 18:25:07
92.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres DFA'd LaForest, but the Phillies picked him up on waivers. The Padres wanted to call him back up.
2007-09-20 18:25:33
93.   Johnny Nucleo
I don't really see Kent's comments as a big deal.
He'd have the same opinion about the kids regardless of whether they made the playoffs or not. He's angry about missing the playoffs, and he's latching on to the kids as the reason why.
It's just frustration. It will blow over.
2007-09-20 18:26:11
94.   Bob Timmermann
Time for Phillies fans to rejoice. Old friend Guillermo Mota in to relieve for the Mets.
2007-09-20 18:26:19
95.   Megaballs
Let Kent vent.
He cares, even if its mostly about himself.
I like his OBP/SLG from the 2b position. Sure Abreu can play there in 2008 but the HOF credentials come from his high slugging and his RBIs.
He may even be right. I suspect he offers alot as a teacher but his approach and controlling nature turns off modern rooks.

I hope he stays. He's got an edge that few on this team have.

Luis G stays, I will go Rosanne on someone.

2007-09-20 18:28:07
96.   bhsportsguy
91 Will there be a ceromony on Sunday? What will Sam DC do to celebrate this occasion?
2007-09-20 18:28:08
97.   Eric Enders
Everybody stand by for the sight of Megaballs grabbing his crotch.
2007-09-20 18:29:24
98.   MollyKnight
85- It's known as the rainbow ball. And it's from hell.
2007-09-20 18:29:30
99.   natepurcell
why did BA rate Baez higher then Lambo?
2007-09-20 18:30:29
100.   MollyKnight
Kent talked to the press while he was upset. And one simply musn't do that.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-09-20 18:30:30
101.   MollyKnight
Kent talked to the press while he was upset. And one simply musn't do that.
2007-09-20 18:31:16
102.   Megaballs
Much more important is the potential long-term damage Grady can do.

1/ Martin plays through a knee sprain. The Franchise. Please shut him down.

2/ Broxton. 80 appearances. 6 of 8 games. 4 straight. Dingers left and right.Sore arm, dead arm. PLEASE SHUT HIM DOWN!

3/ Lowe. He of the degenerative hip. Izzy. Shut him down.

4/ Billz. The franchise, part deux. He's young enough where no more innings is prudent. Shut him down.

5/ Furcal. Ankle. All season. Back. Please, think 2008. Shut him down.

And get Laroche, Abreu and Hu some valuable experience.

2007-09-20 18:33:37
103.   natepurcell
have we talked about the GCL BA ratings yet?
2007-09-20 18:34:05
104.   Bob Timmermann
102
But Robinson Checo isn't available to start in Arizona.
2007-09-20 18:34:23
105.   ToyCannon
99
They loved his defense and power potential. Said that he was the best defensive 3b in the league.
They liked Lambo and compare him to Loney.

Were not impressed with Silverio and his high OPS.

Check out the previous thread and you'll see the quotes from BA about our players somewhere near the beginning.

2007-09-20 18:35:11
106.   natepurcell
105 thanks. Ive had a busy week.
2007-09-20 18:35:15
107.   Megaballs
97.

I was thinking just loud, nasty big girl raggin' kinda stuff.
No crotch. Just unhappy.

ps love your work, Eric E.
Jon, Bob, Toy Cannon, Nate.
Dynamite site.

2007-09-20 18:35:25
108.   Sam DC
Michael Burgess baby!
2007-09-20 18:38:11
109.   Bob Timmermann
You mean Michael Burgess (R-Texas, 26th)?
2007-09-20 18:40:03
110.   Sam DC
96 If you want to know how the universe is ordered in DC, the last game at RFK was moved up an hour and a half so people could attend and still catch the entire Redskins game after.

I will be there with my six year old. We will go early, and he will hope with all his soul to get a ball, like he always does. They are giving out commemorative t-shirts. The place will not be close to sold out. Joel Hanrahan is scheduled to pitch, always an adventure, unless they do something screwy like give it to Ross Detwiler or Walter Johnson's grandkid or something.

After the game, they are digging up home plate and taking it to the new stadium. Not yet clear if it will be used for home plate there are just displayed somewhere.

2007-09-20 18:41:19
111.   alnyden
i'm pretty outraged by Kent's comments. We have had to sit through a season of Nomar's ten million dollar seven homer contribution. When asked if there was a problem, Nomar would just say 'nah, were winning.' well, you didn't win and it's largly your fault. But instead of blaming Nomar he blames the kids who actually produced? I can understand his frustration but he owes these kids an apology. I'm happy to let all the vets go including Kent at this point.
2007-09-20 18:41:22
112.   Sam DC
109 I mean this guy. http://tinyurl.com/39nl24
2007-09-20 18:41:53
113.   Bob Timmermann
110
I think you should start a riot in the 9th inning and have the game forfeited to Philadelphia for old time's sake.
2007-09-20 18:41:53
114.   Andrew Shimmin
Mr. and Ms. Surname isn't just good for kids, it's good for everybody! If you don't start off calling people by their surnames, you don't get the chance to, after you've known them for a little while, say, "Call me Ishmael." Or whatever your first name might be. Spurning etiquette is like going out of your way to play football without the yard lines.
2007-09-20 18:46:57
115.   Hallux Valgus
I am currently watching Fox Sports Rocky Mountain (for a my alma mater vs. son of John Elway football game). They show commercials for the Rockies which include fans saying "we are fans of the walk off home run." It really stabs me in the chest to see this, given the D's trip to CO.
2007-09-20 18:50:30
116.   Humma Kavula
114 I don't know about that. You can always pull out the "Mr. Surname," but these days, it's awkward to do that regularly.

I've actually had people call me Mr. Humma, which is just weird.

2007-09-20 18:51:09
117.   trainwreck
115
Well you have gotten two walk off field goals, so that should help off-set some of the pain.
2007-09-20 18:51:45
118.   Sam DC
I ask all the neighborhood kids to call me "Boss."

Like in Cool Hand Luke.

2007-09-20 18:53:38
119.   Erin
Maybe these things have already been said, but I'll note them again anyway:

1. Doesn't this sort of lend credence to that article that you posted recently regarding the Dodgers' dugout problems?

2. It's a little weird that the full quote isn't in the first article. The quote sounds better (though still not great, and quite bitter at that) when the whole thing is put there in context, as in Ken Gurnick's article.

www.bluethoughts.com

2007-09-20 18:54:04
120.   Bob Timmermann
118
Anyone who doesn't address me as "Boss", gets a night in the box.
2007-09-20 18:55:50
121.   Hallux Valgus
117 ha! beating the Raiders in the weaseliest way possible was pretty fun, I admit.
2007-09-20 18:56:04
122.   Andrew Shimmin
When I was a kid, I sent a letter to the girl I liked addressed to Miss Firstname Lastname. The letter she sent back was addressed to Sir Wilson Pickett (my real name). It was the first of many, many sure signs that it would never work.
2007-09-20 18:58:21
123.   Daniel Zappala
122 Now you're confusing me. I thought you were Mr. Andrew Shimmin in real life. You're actually Mr. Wilson Pickett?
2007-09-20 18:58:30
124.   trainwreck
I am surprised nobody is talking about Chelsea FC sacking their coach.

Or maybe I just missed it.

2007-09-20 19:00:26
125.   Eric Enders
Next we'll find out that Daniel Zappala is an alias for Mitch Ryder.
2007-09-20 19:00:36
126.   Sam DC
Phils up 7-6 on a Rollins "double"[fn] in the top of the 8th.

[fn] "Double" enabled by Tony Hands of Stone Batista playing first base.

2007-09-20 19:01:34
127.   Gen3Blue
Just looked over the BA Double and Triple A stuff. LA was well represented, but I almost got physically ill thinking about the pitchers we used in front of D.J. Houlton.
2007-09-20 19:01:43
128.   Bob Timmermann
Carlos Gomez of the Mets on second broke for third on a grounder to short and just made it in before Hanley Ramirez's throw.

First and third. No outs in the 9th. Fish lead the Mets 4-3 with Old Friend Shawn Green up.

2007-09-20 19:01:47
129.   Jon Weisman
Erin - I owe you an e-mail but I accidentally deleted the one you sent me.
2007-09-20 19:01:59
130.   Hallux Valgus
124 That greeted me with a big "eh."

The talent should over come the coaching, especially on that team, which is like the Yankees.

2007-09-20 19:02:26
131.   Eric Enders
Tony Hands and Stone Batista would actually make good names for two different ballplayers.
2007-09-20 19:02:55
132.   Daniel Zappala
Mr. Enders, I have a web page with my name on it. Plus many more in the Internet Way-Back Machine. This proves my existence as me.
2007-09-20 19:03:07
133.   Bob Timmermann
Green walks to load them up with no one out for Reyes.
2007-09-20 19:03:39
134.   Sam DC
Mets have loaded the basis in the top of the ninth v. FL with no outs.
2007-09-20 19:04:15
135.   Andrew Shimmin
123- I wish. Except for the whole being dead thing, which, even that might not be too great a price to pay.
2007-09-20 19:05:09
136.   Bob Timmermann
130
The Yankees are affiliated with Man U however.
2007-09-20 19:05:14
137.   Sam DC
And D'Angelo The Natural Jimenez coming up in DC . . .
2007-09-20 19:07:18
138.   CanuckDodger
Hey, Trainwreck, have you yet to get those DVD's of Canadian shows from Amazon.com?
2007-09-20 19:07:26
139.   Bob Timmermann
Reyes whiffs. Old Friend Marlon Anderson pinch hitting.
2007-09-20 19:09:54
140.   Bob Timmermann
Anderson clears the bases with a triple.
2007-09-20 19:09:55
141.   trainwreck
138
I did, but I have only watched season 6 of Trailer Park Boys so far.
2007-09-20 19:10:35
142.   Kevin Lewis
I am confused by Kent's comments, and I imagine they are mostly spoken out of frustration. The fact is we have no idea what the work ethic of all the players looks like on an every day basis, and Kent had no right to voice his concerns to anyone but Grady or the people he is talking about. As for the contributions of Nomar and Gonzo, I guess I can only be happy Gonzo did not accept the two year deal and hopeful that LaRoche will take over at third.
2007-09-20 19:11:00
143.   Hallux Valgus
136 That maybe, but Chelsea is better at buying players. ManU has traditionally spent on their own players. Actually, you could compare all of the big 4 to the Yankees, to some extent. I still choose Chelsea.

By the by- Jack Elway is much better than reports have led me to believe. He's interested in Stanford (for obvious reasons) and they would be lucky to have him. He's head and shoulders above the high school game plan, and has an absolutely fantastic arm.

2007-09-20 19:12:19
144.   bhsportsguy
The Met's announcers are saying that was the biggest hit for Anderson in the last 2 years.
2007-09-20 19:12:31
145.   Izzy
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, with Kent. Something tells me Kemp isn't loosing any sleep over being eliminated, and is probably partying it up with three hot babes. And Kent probably doesn't realize Gonzo and Nomar aint what they was. In the end Kent will be much happier once we have inked PVL and all everyting Alex Rodriguez.
2007-09-20 19:12:45
146.   trainwreck
143
He along with Joe Montana's sons have shown interest in UCLA, but I too have heard that they basically are not that good.
2007-09-20 19:15:26
147.   Bluebleeder87
139 ,140

Anderson from what I've seen has been great for the Mets, wow.

2007-09-20 19:15:47
148.   Gen3Blue
When LaRoche is healthy he has always gone into this raking phase in the middle to late summer. Together with Kemp and Loney this should be very effective.
2007-09-20 19:15:59
149.   trainwreck
Speaking more specifically about Jack Elway, I have heard he has all the physical abilities, but is very raw and lacks fundamentals. So he does have quite a bit of upside.
2007-09-20 19:16:14
150.   Bob Timmermann
144
Sigh.

They didn't even see the game Marlon had for Washington right before the Dodger picked him up. He had a bunt single in the 9th to start a 2-run rally that tied the game and in the 10th, he singled in the 10th and then scored the winning run on a wild pitch.

That was against the Phillies. He helped the Dodgers twice that night.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-09-20 19:16:40
151.   sweepstakes
Does anyone else here think that Kent wouldn't be up for HOF consideration if he weren't at 2B?
2007-09-20 19:18:47
152.   trainwreck
151
I think most would agree with that.
2007-09-20 19:19:53
153.   Hallux Valgus
146 I absolutely wanted to believe the same thing, but he's pretty good. He's got a strong arm, but he's pretty raw. It seems like he always wants to make a throw to his 1st option, but who isn't that way at this point?

I hate Cherry Creek, but I think he can be a very good QB for a program. Poise + strong arm. Mullen is still better. Go Mustangs!

2007-09-20 19:19:54
154.   Bob Timmermann
Feliciano in to try to save it for the Mets instead of Wagner.
2007-09-20 19:20:49
155.   Bob Timmermann
If John Elway's son attended UCLA, I would root for USC.
2007-09-20 19:21:54
156.   trainwreck
153
I just saw that LSU has offered him. Surprised that he is not receiving more attention if LSU is willing to offer him.
2007-09-20 19:22:22
157.   dzzrtRatt
Jeff Kent is a man at war with himself.

He affects the pose of a guy who doesn't care, is only in it for the money, can't wait to take off that silly uniform and back to his macho pursuits like hog-ridin' and truck-washin'; but in fact, he's passionate and very proud.

In real-world terms, Kent is 75 years old, with physical infirmity creeping in, who suddenly realizes he's never been to Spain but he kinda likes the music. His list of things to do before you (figuratively) die is not complete. You can't begrudge him his disappointment. Or at least I can't.

As for blaming the kids? He's wrong, but undoubtedly he's looked at the month-to-month team record and noticed that it was about when Loney took Nomar's job away that the Dodgers started to slide. That's not why it happened, but Kent has never pretended to be Sandra Day O'Connor.

But don't be over-protective of the kids. If they can't take a beating like this, they probably don't belong in the bigs. I know Russell Martin will use this to fuel his almost insane competitiveness, and suspect Loney, Kemp and Abreu will as well. I think it would be great if Kent came back and had to face a fired-up bunch of rookies and second-year players determined to prove him wrong. At the end of 2008, we can only pray that Andy LaRoche takes the Commissioner's Trophy and shoves it straight up Jeff Kent's baggy

(Sopranos style blackout)

2007-09-20 19:22:23
158.   Bob Timmermann
The Marlins have 4 runs on 16 hits. Does that remind you of some other team?
2007-09-20 19:22:56
159.   trainwreck
155
Don't worry, we already got Nick Crissman who is a lot better.

Well, unless Nick de-commits. Sigh.

2007-09-20 19:24:21
160.   Bob Timmermann
159
But if I started rooting for USC, I could see better players and better coaching.
2007-09-20 19:25:58
161.   Bob Timmermann
Marlins have two on and none out with Amezaga up facing Sosa.
2007-09-20 19:26:05
162.   KG16
I can understand Kent's frustration. I'm surprised that he's airing dirty laundry in public - he seems like the old school type that believes you handle this kind of stuff in the locker room. If he's saying this publicly, I'm guessing he's been saying much more in the manager's office for a while.

He's had a pretty amazing career but hasn't had a chance to win the World Series. That sort of thing starts to wear on guys late in their career (think Stockton and Malone). And maybe the kids don't get it because they recognize that they've got a chance to play this game for another 10 years or so and will have plenty of opportunities (in which case they should talk to Dan Marino).

As far as the experience angle goes, well, that's what happens when you sign an extension with a team that is in the process of a youth movement. Also, you can't get experience unless you're in the game, it's a bit of a catch-22 for a guy in his spot.

Anyone think that if he decides to play another year, he's going to ask to be traded?

2007-09-20 19:27:10
163.   Andrew Shimmin
Reading the game thread now, I see that bhsportsguy has cost another child a few years of believing in the Easter Bunny. So sad.
2007-09-20 19:27:12
164.   trainwreck
160
Are you going to join Shimmin on the D-Backs bandwagon too?

I did hear a rumor today that they have already started to come up with candidates for the football job.

2007-09-20 19:27:42
165.   Bob Timmermann
Amezaga drives in a run with a ground out. Jacobs up with a runner on third and one out.
7-5 Mets.

Anderson's triple was changed to a double.

2007-09-20 19:29:20
166.   Bob Timmermann
Jacobs reaches on an error (I think) and it's 7-6 Mets with one out.
2007-09-20 19:30:47
167.   Daniel Zappala
155 What? Bob, what could you possibly have against John Elway? You're treading on dangerous ground here. Elway is not Frank Robinson.
2007-09-20 19:31:44
168.   KG16
165 - changing a triple to a double has got me thinking... everyone needs a scorer in real life. Think of the benefits...

Guy proposes to girl, girl goes crazy during engagement, scorer steps in and says, "Sorry, on review, that wasn't a proposal, it was only a really nice gift."

2007-09-20 19:31:54
169.   Bob Timmermann
167
John Elway attended my arch-rival high school.

It's a blood feud.

2007-09-20 19:33:51
170.   Bob Timmermann
Old Friend Cody Ross doubles sending Old Friend That Never Was Reggie Abercrombie to third. Still one out.
2007-09-20 19:33:51
171.   Eric Enders
So I was just looking at Loney's myspace page, and the first photo on the page is pretty funny.

http://tinyurl.com/35lrbr

2007-09-20 19:34:15
172.   Hallux Valgus
155 you should see the offer, but from Stanford. Spawn of Elway should take it.

156 Yeah- I don't see that offer. I thought he was wanting to walk on at LSU. He's good, but I don't think he's LSU good. I saw that Oregon offered him, and that seems more accurat. we need some recruits.

2007-09-20 19:37:28
173.   Bob Timmermann
Treanor ground out ties it up. 7-7 with a runner on 3rd. Jason Wood pinch hitting.
2007-09-20 19:37:30
174.   KG16
huh, Greg Miller went to my high school, didn't know that.
2007-09-20 19:39:16
175.   Bob Timmermann
Free baseball in Florida!
2007-09-20 19:45:04
176.   Daniel Zappala
169 I'm beginning to think that your list of people and places that you consider undesirable is as long as War and Peace.
2007-09-20 19:47:03
177.   Bob Timmermann
176
But John Elway ruined my childhood!

And then he made me sit through numerous boring Super Bowls where the Denver Broncos got slaughtered.

2007-09-20 19:49:13
178.   alnyden
There is one more thing I'd like to get off my chest concerning Jeff Kent and his attitude about the young players on the team. Remember back to the playoffs last year when the Dodgers had the worst base running blunder in the history of baseball by having two runners thrown out at home plate one one play, singlehandedly destroying the Dodgers confidence and chance of winning? Who were those two players? Kids? Kemp and Ethier? Hmmmm... no.... actually I think it was JEFF KENT and J.D. DREW players with plenty of experience to NOT do the stupidest thing I've ever seen two players do in the playoffs.

Fast forward to this year... aside from Kemp, who has made the most baserunning errors of any Dodger? That's right, Kent. It's you. Again. I've watched you get thrown out at third base to end many innings, I've seen you get picked off second. Oh, and Sunday you got picked off first base in the game that was the beginning of the end of the Dodgers season.

Good thing we have these experienced vets who don't make base running mistakes! Cause you can't get experience like (snaps fingers) that. Only experience gives you experience. So you don't get two runners thrown out at home ON THE SAME PLAY. The worst thing possible is when you have a big group of kids all on one team because then you can't influence them with all your... experience. Gee, I thought when people got older and wiser they took responsibility for their own mistakes, and didn't blame others. Guess not.

2007-09-20 19:49:19
179.   King of the Hobos
Brad Ausmus is currently playing third. I'm not sure why.
2007-09-20 19:50:22
180.   Sam DC
Kaboom!
2007-09-20 19:52:32
181.   alnyden
Okay, I'm done ranting, but I thought some of you who are as annoyed as me might enjoy this picture of JEFF KENT getting thrown out at home plate just before JD DREW got thrown out at home plate ON THE SAME PLAY in the playoffs last year. Looks like a guy who knows how to use his experience.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15135515/

2007-09-20 19:52:59
182.   Gen3Blue
178 All true, unfortunately.
2007-09-20 19:55:06
183.   dzzrtRatt
178 To be fair, I don't think he's accusing the kids of making mistakes, or claiming that he or other veterans don't make mistakes.

I think he's talking about the mindset he perceives. This is probably about something happening in the clubhouse, not the field.

2007-09-20 19:58:06
184.   Bob Timmermann
Marlins win it 8-7 on an Uggla double scoring Ramirez.
2007-09-20 19:58:54
185.   Daniel Zappala
Jeff Kent is upset that the kids don't sit around his locker asking him for advice and treating him like a master craftsman. Period.
2007-09-20 19:59:31
186.   Daniel Zappala
176 What school and what did he do? Completely destroy your school or engineer some last minute wins?
2007-09-20 20:00:12
187.   Sam DC
Free baseball in Arlington!

OK, perhaps no exclamation point warranted.

2007-09-20 20:00:26
188.   bhsportsguy
And now the Mets are behind both the D-Backs and the Padres for the best record in the league.

And the question that will be asked, where was Billy Wagner?

2007-09-20 20:00:51
189.   Jon Weisman
Rashomon continues. See the Register's version of the quote in Update 2 above.

Although the reporter, in the paragraph following, still feels that only the kids lack intangibles.

2007-09-20 20:01:38
190.   Daniel Zappala
No score in Anaheim!
2007-09-20 20:02:44
191.   Sam DC
I think the Astros are happy about Ed Wade. Or at least are trying to impress him.

16-1 over St. Louis.

2007-09-20 20:02:49
192.   Bob Timmermann
176
Elway went to Granada Hills High. I attended Kennedy High. We were in a heated rivalry at the time. My older brothers were in high school then.

We didn't much care for Mr. Elway. We liked the virtuous Tom Ramsey, who later went to UCLA, and got to watch the Bears clobber New England in the Super Bowl.

2007-09-20 20:02:55
193.   bhsportsguy
It is not as if Jeff Kent is first player to ever voice these thoughts, you hear them a lot from older players in different sports.
2007-09-20 20:03:12
194.   KG16
Seattle takes a 2-0 lead in Anaheim as Giullen runs out of the inning trying to stretch a double into a triple
2007-09-20 20:06:42
195.   Daniel Zappala
192 OK, what was the score of the four Granada-Kennedy games when you were there?

I'll admit to having no idea about these schools. I was in a private school, so we had the Catholic powerhouses.

2007-09-20 20:07:00
196.   Jon Weisman
And finally, the Times does its version. Update 3 above.
2007-09-20 20:07:03
197.   natepurcell
what is the percentage that Colletti is going to sign a type A free agent and blow our first round pick? How many games do we need to lose to secure our first round pick?
2007-09-20 20:08:18
198.   bhsportsguy
So we head into the final 10 days of the season and there remains 6 teams in the NL (sorry Rockies, sweep the Padres and we will talk) fighting for the 4 spots, all 3 divisions are in play and though the Phillies are now closer to the division than the Wild Card, the Padres still have a tougher closing act than the other contenders.

In the AL, the ivitations have printed but we are not sure where the parties will be held. The Angels can punch their ticket first since they are playing the team they are trying to eliminate.

But when was the last time 4 division races had two teams within 1.5 games or less with 10 days to go?

2007-09-20 20:08:28
199.   Dave G
It's strange to me that Kent's putting this out in public. I mean certainly he's frustrated, but isn't like, lesson #1 of being a good person in the clubhouse to air your issues in the clubhouse and not take them to the media? What does that show about his faith in the "clubhouse leaders" or Little, for that matter, to manage the personalities?

At the same time, I can't help but think that his rant is a product of being near-eliminated, and everyone's probably really on edge. If I were a betting man I'd think that Kent will later regret making these comments (though not admit it), come back next year and put up an .800ish OPS or better like he always does (being 40 notwithstanding).

2007-09-20 20:10:41
200.   Andrew Shimmin
197- Depends. Is Kyle Lohse going to be a type A free agent?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-09-20 20:10:46
201.   Bob Timmermann
195
I think they only played against each other twice. Elway got hurt during his senior year, but Kennedy lost after a bunch of players were suspended for vandalizing the Granada Hills campus. They did it while wearing their jerseys.

They weren't very bright.

2007-09-20 20:11:15
202.   Sam DC
And you can't really put a finger on it. But you can point to it.

With this, I give up trying to understand.

2007-09-20 20:17:42
203.   KG16
Angels use timely hitting with runners on base to take a 4-2 lead
2007-09-20 20:21:55
204.   Bluebleeder87
reading those quotes, you gotta wonder what the younger players think about all that, I can't wait till Russell Martin takes full control of the club house, Kent just sounds like a grumpy old guy, but surprisingly I'm not to offended by what he said, he's just upset like the next guy.
2007-09-20 20:22:04
205.   King of the Hobos
200 Fortunately, I think Boras will price Lohse out of Colletti's price range. Boras is talking him up as an ace and the top starter on the market.

197 The odds are very high that we lose the first rounder. The Dodgers currently have the 13th best record in the majors. 14th is the Brewers (.5 game behind Dodgers), 15th is the Blue Jays (1.5 games behind), and 16th is the Twins (3.5 games behind).

2007-09-20 20:31:06
206.   Daniel Zappala
I guess there is a nice benefit to being both an Angels and Dodgers fan -- I'll be quite happy if I get to watch the Angels win the series again this year.
2007-09-20 20:31:55
207.   Daniel Zappala
Speaking of which, the Angels let Jose Guillen go when he was a cancer. The Dodgers got rid of Milton Bradley. Is this enough for the Dodgers to get rid of Kent?
2007-09-20 20:32:10
208.   Bluebleeder87
they might rumble in anaheim, KG16, did you see that?
2007-09-20 20:33:03
209.   KG16
Random thought to help the team next year... what about hiring a personal strength/conditioning coach for Pierre. And perhaps a hitting instructor that gets him to stop dropping his back elbow when he swings? I mean, if we're stuck with the guy, why not take positive steps to make him a better ball player?
2007-09-20 20:33:54
210.   Scanman33
So the season would have gone better if Nomar got MORE at bats? It would have gone better of Gonzalez's 40 year old carcass was out there more?

If comes down to talent, not "manufacturing runs" and "being experienced". How many times did we see LuGo mangle a ball in the OF? How many stupid baserunning mistakes did Kent make? What about Sweeney's brainfart? What about Garciaparra competing with Pierre in the slugging department? What about their inability to show any kind of health? And he has the nerve to try and pin it on the young players?

And don't sit here and talk about how it's "hard to give them experience". That's part of your job as a "seasoned veteran" and the tradeoff for settling with your declining skill set while receiving a large salary. It's tough to teach sitting behind a Motorcross magazine. It's tough to teach when your own performance can't back up the example you think you're setting. It's tough to teach when you are hurt on a constant basis. Calling out other players on the tam in the press is the best example of all, isn't it you insolent jackass?

What happened to all this "veteran-ness" and "leadership" Colletti says they're supposed to provide? This is another one of the season's shortcomings that fall on his shoulders.

2007-09-20 20:34:05
211.   KG16
208 - what'd I miss? was flipping through the channels?
2007-09-20 20:34:20
212.   Andrew Shimmin
209- You can't fix Juan Pierre. You can only hope to complain about him.
2007-09-20 20:34:27
213.   dzzrtRatt
The Times' Baxter is apparently choosing to interpret Kent's comments as aimed at Grady and the coaching staff. "Why they don't get it" could be interpreted as a knock against the manager of the team for failing to convey things Kent regards as essential for young players to learn.

Again, I think you guys who are reacting to these comments by citing Kent's baserunning mistakes are comparing apples to oranges. He's pretty clearly not accusing the kids of failing to perform adequately, nor is he saying a veteran won't hurt the team with mistakes. "Experience" in Kent's context is about focusing your emotions and using them to inspire a higher level of performance.

But to the Register, he allows as how maybe the veterans he played with as a prospect were frustrated by him in the same way he is frustrated now. He thought he was humbly learning from them, but maybe they thought he was just a dumb, arrogant little jerk who didn't get it.

The more I read these comments, the more I think he's knocking the organization -- for bringing in a lot of young talent without a plan for how to integrate them into the existing team. Any business with that much turnover needs to be mindful of how all this change is going to affect the organization's culture and performance, and some organizations fall down during such a transition. It's not the newbies' fault. It's the management's fault. I think that's a fair idea of what Kent's really saying.

2007-09-20 20:34:50
214.   Bluebleeder87
204 one more thing

from watching & reading, Russell isn't a vocal guy, but just how he plays the game & carries himself etc..

2007-09-20 20:35:34
215.   KG16
212 - we can rebuild him, make him stronger, make him better. we have the technology.
2007-09-20 20:40:21
216.   Bluebleeder87
211

Weaver hit Jojima & the Seattle pitcher hit there catcher, Scioscia wasn't to pleased.

ps but then Guerrero hit a monster shot.

2007-09-20 20:42:56
217.   Greg Brock
I cannot believe those Jeff Kent quotes. I knew he was irascible...I didn't know he was an imbecile.

Hang 'em up, you fossil.

2007-09-20 20:44:10
218.   Bob Timmermann
Actually the Mariners pitcher missed Mathis, but he came after his head.

The pitch to Guerrero didn't look that bad, but it certainly got him mad. And he certainly knew how to respond.

Guerrero just swung, dropped the bat, and then just watched it go.

2007-09-20 20:44:29
219.   sporky
215 - Juan Pierre v2.0... beta.
2007-09-20 20:44:41
220.   Bob Timmermann
217
Which version did you read?
2007-09-20 20:46:38
221.   KG16
I think I might just break down and buy an Angel's hat this post season. I have to admit, I do like the way they play...
2007-09-20 20:47:23
222.   Greg Brock
217 I read everything the PK posted above. No matter which one, they're all dumb.
2007-09-20 20:48:48
223.   Greg Brock
I wonder how Jeff Kent managed to hold his emotions in when fighting Barry Bonds in the dugout.

People who focus on age vs. ability are usually old...and lacking ability.

2007-09-20 20:49:24
224.   PlayTwo
Kent is such a talent and so driven. At the same time, he is alienating. He badly wants to win and can't stomach that some won't do the little things to get the job done. It is all something a little winning would cure but for Kent, he is running out of seasons.
2007-09-20 20:51:59
225.   Daniel Zappala
The LA Times version makes it sound like Kent is frustrated that the young players don't take losing as hard as he does. I don't think taking losing hard is required for success -- I'm more interested with how the players have actually played.
2007-09-20 20:53:05
226.   KG16
224 - Kent's like Kobe, without the rings.
2007-09-20 20:54:18
227.   Bob Timmermann
226
Jeff Kent doesn't like to pass?
2007-09-20 20:55:09
228.   Eric Enders
"I don't know if the older guys said that about me when I was a young kid, too."

Um, you know why you don't know, Jeff? Because maybe they weren't jerkwads who cried to the press about it!

2007-09-20 20:55:47
229.   Bumsrap
Loney, Kemp, Martin, Broxton, Billingsley, Ethier played well enough this year that they can take Kent's comments in stride. If anything, Kent just united the young bunch and it would appear that that was the opposite of what he wanted to do. Maybe Kent should read the interview instead of just looking at the motorcycle centerfold.
2007-09-20 20:56:42
230.   KG16
225 - that's sort of what I took from it. Hating to lose isn't a bad thing, and it can be frustrating (as one who use to be in that position as an athlete) when you're annoyed by a loss and other guys on the team are joking around or acting like it's no big deal.
2007-09-20 20:56:50
231.   Eric Enders
225 "The LA Times version makes it sound like Kent is frustrated that the young players don't take losing as hard as he does."

Which is rich, coming from someone who takes every opportunity to express how much he hates baseball.

2007-09-20 20:59:01
232.   Eric Enders
I think Milton Bradley was right all along, and Jeff Kent just doesn't understand black people. What Milton left out is that he doesn't understand white people, Hispanic people, or Asian people either.
2007-09-20 21:00:03
233.   Greg Brock
232 Kent does, however, have a real connection with American indigenous peoples.
2007-09-20 21:02:22
234.   Bumsrap
Loney is relaxed and confident and that helps him focus. Kemp hustles, dives, and really tries to do well. Martin is Martin. Bills became the ACE of the rotation. Gonzo mostly tried to pull the ball. Nomar tried to survive another year. Pierre struggled to keep singles singles on defense. The young group is getting better and the old group is getting worse.
2007-09-20 21:03:05
235.   Eric Enders
233 So Ned's going to sign Kyle Lohse for sure, then.
2007-09-20 21:05:13
236.   trainwreck
233
Joba!
Joba!
Joba!
2007-09-20 21:05:15
237.   Greg Brock
235 I really do wonder what will happen this offseason. But I'm pretty sure I won't like it. I wonder what it's like to have a GM that doesn't scare the piss out of you every time a potential deal comes up.
2007-09-20 21:05:57
238.   Bumsrap
235 - That or Kent will play for Cleavland or Atlanta next year.
2007-09-20 21:08:05
239.   Daniel Zappala
Can I get a ruling on this? On Vlad's homer, Ichiro scaled the fence to try to catch the ball. He was way, way too far off course, and the ball was hit too far --- but if one could manage to stand upright on the top of the fence, could one do that and catch the ball?
2007-09-20 21:08:39
240.   Daniel Zappala
237 Name a set of GMs with whom you would feel absolutely confident they would do the right thing.
2007-09-20 21:08:42
241.   trainwreck
237
Didn't we have that like two years ago?
2007-09-20 21:09:27
242.   KG16
239 - the Japanese guy did that in one of the Major League movies...
2007-09-20 21:09:36
243.   LogikReader
237

..........I got nothing. Eric?

2007-09-20 21:10:01
244.   Eric Enders
237 Yeah, but what team's fans have that kind of GM, though? Oakland. Probably Cleveland, San Diego, Milwaukee. Maybe Atlanta, except they just traded their whole future for a fourth place finish in the wild card.
2007-09-20 21:11:28
245.   trainwreck
Red Sox fans should have good faith in their management. I think D-Backs fans will too.
2007-09-20 21:12:50
246.   Eric Enders
242 There was a real Japanese guy who did that in a game about 20 years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwuWPRG72ZY
2007-09-20 21:13:22
247.   Bluebleeder87
I think Milton Bradley was right all along, and Jeff Kent just doesn't understand black people. What Milton left out is that he doesn't understand white people, Hispanic people, or Asian people either.

when he says "them" it makes it seem like he's from another planet.

2007-09-20 21:13:41
248.   Daniel Zappala
And even that guy in Oakland had trouble putting together a solid team this year. There's been a lot of grumbling about the A's lately.
2007-09-20 21:14:00
249.   Eric Enders
245 Red Sox fans just watched their management trade a bunch of prospects to the Rangers for Roberto Hernandez, Jr.
2007-09-20 21:15:26
250.   Daniel Zappala
246 Thanks. I had a vision of someone standing up with both feet on the wall, but I guess you'd need a thicker wall to do it that way.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-09-20 21:16:22
251.   Greg Brock
240
Towers (because of Alderson)
Epstein
Gillick
Beane
Beinfest
Schuerholz
Stoneman
Dombrowski
2007-09-20 21:16:57
252.   Bluebleeder87
239

Actually Ichiro did something similar to that a while back & caught a four bagger.

2007-09-20 21:17:22
253.   Scanman33
How long before the local press spins this as, "Kent, who was brought in by former GM Paul Depodesta despite questions about his character..."?
2007-09-20 21:17:46
254.   trainwreck
249
Yeah, well no one is going to bat 1.000.
2007-09-20 21:22:03
255.   Pedro Astacio
Or Kent, who was signed to an extension by Colleti.

I don't know, I think Kent is just impatient because his career is dwindling. The guy's probably never going to win a world series. I'd be mad if the young players had an attitude of"Oh well, wait till next year." I don't know if they actually do but Kent doesn't usually lie.

2007-09-20 21:22:39
256.   Daniel Zappala
Satellite delay? I just saw an update to ESPN's GameCast before I saw the play live on DirecTV.
2007-09-20 21:23:38
257.   Eric Enders
As was mentioned before, Kent's got a ring, but was traded away before the actual World Series in question.
2007-09-20 21:24:05
258.   Greg Brock
Kent usually doesn't lie

Especially about riding motorcyc...er...washing trucks.

2007-09-20 21:24:58
259.   Daniel Zappala
Fight in Anaheim!
2007-09-20 21:26:33
260.   KG16
259 - no, no, UFC isn't until Saturday
2007-09-20 21:26:35
261.   Bob Timmermann
259
It was more of a discussion.
2007-09-20 21:28:56
262.   Daniel Zappala
261 Well, there was some shoving involved, but yes, cooler heads prevailed.
2007-09-20 21:31:08
263.   sporky
If Campillo were a Dodger, then Kent might have a legitimate complaint. Kid's a fool.
2007-09-20 21:31:52
264.   Jon Weisman
I'm one percent as worried about what Kent thinks as I am about how the press and management will interpret and act upon his remarks. Kent can tell the world how much he loves "Before Sunrise" for all I care, as long as the Dodgers aren't harmed in the process.
2007-09-20 21:32:01
265.   Andrew Shimmin
Takaaki Ishibashi is a real Japanese guy! Not a real baseball player, but still.
2007-09-20 21:32:12
266.   Greg Brock
I hate it when cooler heads prevail. Bo-ring.
2007-09-20 21:32:34
267.   KG16
Pitcher ejected, Vlad draws a walk, without taking a swing
2007-09-20 21:34:55
268.   Greg Brock
264 But Kent is simply aping the sentiments expressed a number of times by this front office. It's not like he's going to change the direction of the franchise with these comments. These people have age fetishes. They like older men (which is fine...I'm not judging).

What is he really going to do? Make them more fetishistic with vets. Is that even possible?

Are they going to sign Abe Vigoda?

2007-09-20 21:35:06
269.   underdog
Rashomon indeed. Or perhaps Kent's quote is like the telephone game, or an exquisite corpse. No matter what, I'm looking forward to the aftermath tomorrow and beyond, the sequels.

I have to say though, if this kind of thing had happened earlier in the season, a blow up, lashing out publicly or public frustration, maybe this team would have benefited from it in some way? Because there'd be the inevitable team meeting, and airing things out, and finding out what kind of team this was, and at least people on the team would have expressed themselves. Instead, Grady Little's too nice, tries to please everyone, and players act like things are hunky dory. Instead the season imploded instead of exploded and now this kind of thing can't have any kind of positive resolution because it's too damned late.

That's one way of looking at it, anyway, just one angle in "Rashomon-Dodgers Style."

2007-09-20 21:35:58
270.   underdog
268 Maybe. This team's about to sleep with the fishes, might as well sleep with Fish, too.

--

How about that Chelsea sacking, eh?

2007-09-20 21:37:34
271.   underdog
264 Now that would truly shock me.

I always had Kent pegged as preferring Before Sunset. And Tape.

2007-09-20 21:38:07
272.   Eric Enders
Consider me TKOed by the low blow in 264 .
2007-09-20 21:38:16
273.   Daniel Zappala
266 You can come with me next time I go watch a 6th-grade football game. A quarterback got nailed on a trick play where they sent three wide receivers out right and didn't have enough blockers to protect him. They were counting on a quick slant pass before any rushers got to him, but they figured wrong. Lots of poor attempts at blocking, dropped passes, but some exciting plays. They are required to go for a one-point conversion running or passing play -- no kicks for extra points. Not a bad way to spend an evening.
2007-09-20 21:38:27
274.   El Lay Dave
268 These people have age fetishes. They like older men

On DT day, I thought Camille Johnston was giving me the eye.

2007-09-20 21:38:39
275.   King of the Hobos
It's September, most rosters have well over 30 players, and yet the Cardinals used Aaron Miles as a reliever. I enjoy a hitter pitching as much as anyone (except Vin), but aren't September rosters suppose to prevent this? Of course, this was the same game where Brad Ausmus played third base, so both teams made odd September moves.
2007-09-20 21:38:53
276.   Jon Weisman
I meant to say "Before Sunset," of course.
2007-09-20 21:39:33
277.   Eric Enders
Oh, so we're going to start ragging on Tape now too.

I'd better crawl back into my hole. The one with all the Richard Linklater DVDs in it.

2007-09-20 21:41:06
278.   Greg Brock
270 An amazing turn of events. The "Special One" can now go coach in Italy...and Chelski hires Klinsmann.
2007-09-20 21:41:15
279.   Bob Timmermann
Underdog has ruined a perfectly good joke that I had been cultivating for weeks.

I hope he's proud of himself.

2007-09-20 21:44:36
280.   Greg Brock
277 I like Linklater, Eric. I like Waking Life. Of course, I don't put it ahead of PATTON or MODERN TIMES...But, then again, who the heck would?

Oh, right...

2007-09-20 21:44:50
281.   ToyCannon
I'm sure I'm off on this but it seems everytime Vlady is thrown at, he crushes a homerun.

251
I was a bit surprised to see Schuerholz on your list since he just traded his future for a failed run at the playoffs. If Ned had made that deal for Tex you'd have blown a fuse.
Billy gave away Milton for nothing, after trading a starting LF for him in the 1st place.
Epstein signed Lugo, JD, and traded for Gagne just in the last month. I won't even mention trading the most exciting player not named Reyes in the NL.

Just saying every GM makes questionable moves even the esteemed Depo made plenty in my book in his brief tenure.

My only attempt to relieve BHSPORTSGUY of his counterpoint day job.

2007-09-20 21:45:36
282.   Jon Weisman
It was a low blow, Eric. Beneath me.
2007-09-20 21:46:52
283.   LAT
You just know crusty ol' Kent gives his kids the "when I was your age I walked 5 miles in the snow to schoola' speech. And then follows it up with the "we were so poor we didn't even own shoes." (It doesn't matter that he grew up in Southern California.)

In truth, I'm glad to see someone is upset that this season was an utter failure. Raise your hand if you picked the Dodgers to finish fourth in the division.

2007-09-20 21:47:42
284.   El Lay Dave
279 Bob, can you let underdog off the hook? For old times' sake?
2007-09-20 21:47:46
285.   Greg Brock
281 I would say that Schuerholz, like Beane, has sustained a level of success that insulates them from total fear. I wouldn't be happy with some of the deals, but I don't cower every time a trade deal comes up. They've earned the benefit of the doubt from long term, quality stewardship.
2007-09-20 21:50:49
286.   Bob Timmermann
284
Sorry, not this time.

Greg Brocks's a wimp. He never could've out-fought bhsportguy. But I didn't know until this day that it was underdog all along.

2007-09-20 21:53:51
287.   LAT
Are they going to sign Abe Vigoda?

Abe Vigoda and Harry Morgan. 2 Guys who seem like they should have long ago been dead. These guys must have been born old. Really think back to Barny Miller or The Godfather. That was 30+ years ago and he looked 70 then. As for Morgan, forget Sheman Potter it was 50 years ago he was paired with Sgt. Joe Friday.

2007-09-20 21:54:38
288.   underdog
279 Aw, man! I had no idea Abe Vigoda would be dredged up later for something important. Plus Greg started it! {points finger}

How many of these kids here even know who Abe Vigoda is? Or ever bothered to ask any of us older veteran posters about him? I'm angry and disappointed and perplexed. They, my friend, they are the ones that have ruined a perfectly joke.

277 Hey, I like Tape, too. I even saw it in the theater, me and three other people.

2007-09-20 21:54:52
289.   ToyCannon
285
Nomar was good once to. At some point they all lose their touch. Even Branch Rickey.
2007-09-20 21:54:57
290.   Greg Brock
286 What's the matter with you!? Never let anyone outside the Toaster family know what you're thinking!
2007-09-20 21:55:06
291.   Bob Timmermann
Actually Harry Morgan didn't join the cast of Dragnet until 1967.
2007-09-20 21:56:50
292.   LAT
What are the odds? Unrelated back-to-back Godfater references. 286 and 287
2007-09-20 21:57:06
293.   underdog
...good joke, that is.

--

Maybe a William Demarest joke can be worked in here somewhere. Talk about someone born old.

And no, I'm not that old, I just like screwball comedies.

286 Don't you mean, "I know it was you Fredog. You broke my heart."

2007-09-20 21:57:42
294.   trainwreck
Any youngster who watches Conan would know who Abe Vigoda is.

Well, they would have a really odd view of him.

2007-09-20 21:58:11
295.   Greg Brock
274 Re: Camille Johnston...

Yes.

2007-09-20 21:58:43
296.   LAT
Soundsl like Bob and underdog are going to the matresses.
2007-09-20 21:59:22
297.   Eric Enders
"I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb. I'm smart and I want respect!"
-- Ned Colletti
2007-09-20 21:59:34
298.   LogikReader
How many of these kids here even know who Abe Vigoda is?

Plenty! He's on Conan every other week.

2007-09-20 21:59:55
299.   bhsportsguy
Thanks for filling in ToyCannon, I will take up my normal role here for the night.

290 I knew it was Brock, it was the smart play. Brock was always the smart one.

2007-09-20 22:01:02
300.   dzzrtRatt
(Deep sigh)

Before the interpretation of Kent's "remarks" (meaning words inside quotation marks) settles into a consensus, I strongly suggest you re-read all the clips Jon put in the post. Kent doesn't say most of the things we're attributing to him:

"According to Kent, one of the problems was the amount of young players on the team." -- Diamond Leung, interpreting Kent.

"But my guess is that certain guys felt that Nomar and Gonzo should get most of the time and unless he was tired, Kent probably should play too." -- BHsportsguy, reacting to what Kent said.

"When you hear there's a split between the older Dodgers and the younger ones, some of it can get a little personal, especially when somebody's inevitably about to take away your job. But for Kent, it's strictly professional. He remembers being a young player that respected veterans and learned from them and he doesn't see that happening with this generation, or at least the large group of 20-somethings in his clubhouse." -- Ken Gurnick, who I know is considered a sage by most of us. Not.

"Asked if those curious and perplexing things included Manager Grady Little's daily lineups and the coaching staff's game strategy, Kent responded: "Everything." ...

There has been an obvious and growing tension all season between the Dodgers' veterans and youngsters. Publicly, at least, that discord had remained largely under control and Kent is the only one who has spoken out on the record." -- Kevin Baxter, minus one word he attributes to Kent.

The most potentially inflammatory thing Kent is actually quoted as having said is some variation of:

"I don't know what it is, but especially when you have a lot of them, it's hard to influence a lot of them," he said. "Don't get me wrong -- we have a lot of good kids. But it's hard to translate experience. I don't know why they don't get it.

"It's professionalism. It's manufacturing runs, keeping your emotions in it. Experience can pull you through more than inexperience, experience helps more than inexperience. It's hard to give experience, just like that," Kent said, snapping his fingers.

Where in that quote is he saying anything that isn't obvious to anyone who has ever worked in any kind of organization? Talented young people can go astray without proper leadership. It is hard to "translate experience." It's not the fault of the young people; it's the leadership.

Elsewhere, he goes out of his way to praise the young guys, and attempts, apparently in vain, to correct the misimpression that he probably realized the writers were jumping to write.

I'm sorry, I know a lot of people on this site dislike Kent and wish he'd retire. Sticking up for him is not going with the flow. But I've been around enough of the kind of crap lazy, agenda-driven, herd-mentality reporters can do, so when an interviewee is being positioned as having hung himself with seemingly stupid remarks, I always parse these things closely.

In this case, I think Kent is getting a bad rap. He didn't say Nomar and LuGo should've played more, and let the young players sit to make way for them. He didn't blame the young players for the Dodgers falling out of contention. He didn't say the young players don't care. He didn't confirm there was "tension" between the young guys and the old guys. But by tomorrow, that's what everyone's going to think he said. I hate when that happens.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-09-20 22:01:38
301.   Greg Brock
297 That is, by far, my favorite Godfather related quote of all time. "I'm smaaaatt!" is the best.

"I'm smaaaat!"

2007-09-20 22:01:42
302.   bhsportsguy
Its Milton Knox (current UCLA commit) vs. Dayne Crist (current Notre Dame commit) on ESPN 2 right now.

Knox is winning the battle right now.

2007-09-20 22:01:43
303.   LAT
293 Uncle Charlie reference. Nice call.

My typing is worse than usual. Getting use to a Mac.

2007-09-20 22:01:48
304.   underdog
Man, I haven't watched Conan for awhile, apparently.

296 No, no, no! No more! Not this time, consiglieri. No more meetings, no more discussions, no more blog comments.

2007-09-20 22:03:21
305.   El Lay Dave
295 Which suprised me because you were nearby and she gives off a bit of a cougar scent.
2007-09-20 22:03:27
306.   underdog
300 That is all part of the Rashomon, or Telephone Game, here.

--

Boy, I'd forgotten how hot Linda Fiorentino was in After Hours.

2007-09-20 22:03:55
307.   bhsportsguy
300 Agreed, I was only guessing since I didn't hear his interview. And its true, there really is nothing in his remarks that indicates that he believes older guys should have played more unless you can read between the lines.
2007-09-20 22:03:55
308.   King of the Hobos
As a DT youngster, I'll admit that I do not know who Abe Vigoda is.
2007-09-20 22:03:59
309.   trainwreck
302
UCLA commit Donovan Carter is also on Birmingham.
2007-09-20 22:05:14
310.   bhsportsguy
305 And she's a Bruin.
2007-09-20 22:05:25
311.   underdog
Just to punish you all, for the rest of the evening the part of underdog here will be played by Skip Bayless.

Oh, the pain, the pain...

2007-09-20 22:07:06
312.   Bob Timmermann
308
Don't look him up.
2007-09-20 22:08:32
313.   LAT
300. Yes but didn't you see where Kent said, and I quote, "Sonofabitch rookies! Do they know who I am? I'm Jeff Kent! I made my bones when they were going out with cheerleaders!"
2007-09-20 22:09:55
314.   bhsportsguy
308 Abe Vigoda's career highlights:
1. "Tessio" in Godfather and Godfather 2 (at the end).
2. "Fish" in Barney Miller and the Fish spin-off.
3. John Travolta's grandpa or something in Look Who's Talking.
4. Cameo appearances on Conan.
2007-09-20 22:10:50
315.   bhsportsguy
313 He better not get any massages for the rest of the season.
2007-09-20 22:12:06
316.   LAT
308. Hobos you could be forgiven for this if you didn't see Barney Miller or the Godfather but I think Jon requires that everyone watch Joe and Volocano before getting their DT license.
2007-09-20 22:13:45
317.   Greg Brock
316 LAT, thanks again for everything. You almost give lawyers a good name.

Almost.

2007-09-20 22:14:35
318.   LAT
314. Your failure to include Joe and Volocano is a Captial DT offense.
2007-09-20 22:15:56
319.   LAT
317 I'll try to stop doing that. I don't want to embarass my profession any more than I already have.
2007-09-20 22:18:29
320.   bhsportsguy
Oops, I'm sorry, you know I really have never watched that film though I remember him in it.

As my punishment, I will go listen to old Dodger radio broadcasts and wait for Rick Monday to give me the score.

2007-09-20 22:19:52
321.   LAT
320. In that case you'll be as old as Abe Vigoda when you get back here.
2007-09-20 22:20:20
322.   Andrew Shimmin
300- I think the problem is he didn't make any actual accusation. None of what he said means anything concrete, that I can see.
2007-09-20 22:23:20
323.   Bob Timmermann
I cultivated an Abe Vigoda joke for weeks. I had spent a good amount of time thinking of a logical end to the fish pictures.

And now it's all shot to hell.

I hope everyone is happy.

I'm taking my fish and going home.

2007-09-20 22:24:07
324.   Jon Weisman
LAT, you're the best.
2007-09-20 22:27:39
325.   Greg Brock
324 You have no idea.
2007-09-20 22:30:39
326.   El Lay Dave
300 You make an interesting case. I thought it might be interesting to just show Kent's quotes with no other text (some of those are combined from different sources, but within the context of the same quote):

"I'm angry and disappointed and perplexed. Bitter."

"You can use all your fingers on your hand and point around. There's many, many things that have happened that are perplexing. Many things that have happened that are curious. Many things that have happened that are unfortunate. And you can't really put a finger on it. But you can point to it. Those things are disappointing. And frustrating as well."

"How do you teach the young kids? I don't know if the older guys said that about me when I was a young kid, too. I don't know what it is, especially when you have a lot of [young players.] It's hard to influence a big group. We've got some good kids on the team. Don't get me wrong, please don't misinterpret my impressions. [But] it's hard to translate experience. I don't know why they don't get it." [Asked what they don't get, Kent said:] "A lot of things. Professionalism. How to manufacture a run. How to keep your emotions in it. There's just a lot of things that go on with playing 162 games and barely getting yourself in there just enough to make the playoffs. But I think experience can help more than inexperience. And it's hard to give a young kid experience. I've been there with some experienced teams."

"We're in a bad spot right now. Pretty soon we're going to give up the ghost and it's going to be painful. It's close to the end of the season. And a career for me too. I'm running out of time. A lot of kids in here, they don't understand that. I've played a long time. I've played on some really good teams. I've been in the World Series once. So you hate to waste an opportunity, even if it's one and even if it's your first time. And it's hard to get them to understand that because they've haven't been there. So there lies some frustration."

About retirement: "If you can get in touch with me about November, I'll let you know. I'm still trying to go through emotions of the season right now to worry about the possibilities for next year."

2007-09-20 22:31:09
327.   Jon Weisman
Did LAT rescue Brock's teaching career? Is this alternate ending to Dead Poet's Society?
2007-09-20 22:31:26
328.   King of the Hobos
John Perrotto, of the Beaver County Times and Baseball Prospectus, says the Pirates are going to hire Neal Huntington as their new GM. Huntington is a special assistant to the general manager with the Cleveland Indians.

http://tinyurl.com/2ky6bm

Looks like White will be with the Dodgers for the foreseeable future.

2007-09-20 22:34:52
329.   trainwreck
328
Party in the ghetto!
2007-09-20 22:37:59
330.   El Lay Dave
"This is my playoff race."

"I think in Spring Training [the Dodgers] wanted to make me a little more deceptive, and wanted me to sink the ball a little more and I just got into some bad habits. Until I got removed from the situation and kind of reevaluated where I was at and how I was pitching and how I was going at people, it was hard to see."

-- Brett Tomko, quoted in mlb.com

Ugh.

2007-09-20 22:38:43
331.   bhsportsguy
329 You want bitter, I am in the chat room in BRO and I don't know what the room will be like tomorrow with Coach Walker but I will be there to see it.
2007-09-20 22:38:54
332.   El Lay Dave
327 Maybe he just helped him out with the "drunk and disorderly" and "malicious mischief" charges. ;)
2007-09-20 22:41:10
333.   trainwreck
331
DeWayne Walker does not seem like he will take much guff.
2007-09-20 22:41:41
334.   Greg Brock
327 LAT just gave me a ton of support when I needed it. He didn't save my teaching career...My awesomeness didn't need saving. He just guided me through some hazardous waters. He's a real great guy, that LAT.
2007-09-20 22:49:13
335.   LAT
327. No, but I hope spared the world one more wood paneling salesman.
2007-09-20 22:50:52
336.   Bob Timmermann
335
But I need some wood paneling!
2007-09-20 22:53:08
337.   Eric Enders
Brock: "So, Bob, you like oak?"
Bob: "Um... yeah. Oak's good."
2007-09-20 22:53:21
338.   Bob Timmermann
OK, I've got a new joke ready.

My anger has subsided.

2007-09-20 22:54:46
339.   Greg Brock
335 Keep joking, Larry. There's a real future in wood paneling sales. I'm not giving up on it.

To say nothing of aluminum siding. I could really be a great aluminum siding salesman. I believe in the product.

2007-09-20 22:54:48
340.   Eric Enders
337 would have been less useless if I hadn't bungled the quote.
2007-09-20 22:55:29
341.   underdog
Is it safe to come back in yet? I've tossed out all my other aquatic jokes.
2007-09-20 22:57:31
342.   Greg Brock
337 Uncle Marcellus...Is that You???
2007-09-20 22:58:35
343.   LAT
339. Texture coating. Lasts 14 times longer than paint!
2007-09-20 22:59:20
344.   Bob Timmermann
341
You're safe. The final team eliminated was going to get Abe Vigoda.

Now I have something else.

2007-09-20 22:59:56
345.   bhsportsguy
339 I just say want to say one word to you, one word.

Compost, the "plastic" of the 21st Century.

2007-09-20 23:02:32
346.   Frip
Actually for a guy like Kent who considers himself a "straight shooter", it was a pretty vague statement. If you're going to play the tough guy and insinuate something provocative, then at least have the decency to be clear about it.
2007-09-20 23:03:18
347.   Eric Enders
334 Speaking of which, the Dodgers had better get their butts in gear. Not because I think they can make the playoffs, but because for Bob's contest I need them to be the second-to-last team eliminated.
2007-09-20 23:06:46
348.   El Lay Dave
345 Compost. What a pile.
2007-09-20 23:09:01
349.   LAT
Channel surfing and just saw Holly Hunter's naked ass tied up in a bondage scene on Saving Grace. Pretty racey for basic cable. I tried to change the channel but was too slow. Now if you'll excuse me I have to find a rusty nail, some lemon juice and two eye patches. I don't have anything aginst Holly Hunter I just really don't want to see her naked.
2007-09-20 23:10:10
350.   Eric Stephen
347 I had the Dodgers out of the final 5. Some would say, "fool, why would you pick them to win the wild card." Others would say "maybe he foresaw they would be eliminated before the final 5." I choose to interpret whichever way makes me look smaaater.

For inaccuracy sake, here were my final five teams eliminated:

5. Cardinals
4. Rockies
3. Padres
2. Phillies
1. Cubs - September 29

I won't be winning the contest.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-09-20 23:10:12
351.   El Lay Dave
Apparently Dodger Talk played Kent quotes on the air. A blog commenter on ItD said this, "his voice was wistful, full of "what-might-have-beens."

Now I wonder what it sounded like.

2007-09-20 23:23:14
352.   Eric Enders
351 "his voice was wistful, full of "what-might-have-beens."

Following is the full transcript of Kent's comments:

"One day, back in 1989, I was driving my hog onto the Catalina ferry, and as we pulled out, there was another ferry pulling in, and on it there was a girl waiting to get off. A white dress she had on. She was carrying a white parasol. I only saw her for one second. She didn't see me at all, but I'll bet a month hasn't gone by since then that I haven't thought about that girl."

2007-09-20 23:24:32
353.   Frip
Respect old dudes. Why?
2007-09-20 23:28:25
354.   Bob Timmermann
But you're not allowed to take motorcycles to Catalina without a permit.
2007-09-20 23:30:14
355.   underdog
Once he has a lot more spare time next year, Will Kent be making a cameo in the much-anticipated(dreaded) "Wild Hogs 2"?
2007-09-20 23:30:40
356.   bhsportsguy
352 Funniest thing I have read tonight.
2007-09-20 23:30:41
357.   Eric Stephen
353 Because you can try to break free of their cold metal claws, but you can't. Because they're old dudes.
2007-09-20 23:31:38
358.   underdog
352 Kent wouldn't go to Catalina anyway. He heard that there were Bison roaming free there.
2007-09-20 23:33:49
359.   underdog
(http://tinyurl.com/2yp4jb)
2007-09-20 23:34:52
360.   underdog
Citizen Kent is one of those movies I could watch over and over again.

I need to go to bed. Night all. Here's to happier times ahead.

2007-09-20 23:36:07
361.   SG6
Call me a sore loser, but in reference to 178: "He [the umpire] sort of gave me a 'He's out but you'd better watch out because somebody else is coming' look," Lo Duca said. "I turned around, and he [JD] was right there."

So does JD score if the ump doesn't give the "watch out" look to Lo Duca?

2007-09-21 00:28:12
362.   KG16
I know I should be doing this, but I'm trying to make sense of Plaschke's latest. It sounds like he's over the youth movement. But then he takes a shot at the PVLs for failing to be flexible. And he takes a shot at Little for trying to be everyone's friend.

It's such a strange mix, it's really the perfect summary of the season.

2007-09-21 00:31:40
363.   Andrew Shimmin
347- Me too! I also need the Phillies to quit winning games and the Tigers to quit losing so many, so soon.

The good thing about the Dodgers crapping out is that it won't be hard to choose between next week's game, and the The Office season premiere.

2007-09-21 01:04:25
364.   natepurcell
Plaschke sucks, what a flip-flopper.
2007-09-21 02:30:49
365.   bhsportsguy
All Plaschke is doing is trying to read beyond what Kent actually said. However, since he did theorize similar to what I said way back like 10 hours ago or so, I am not going to quibble.

When Plaschke said he was wrong, I don't think he meant he was wrong about the plan of going with the kids, it was how that plan might fit with the makeup of the team. Plaschke even says that some of the kids (okay, Loney, Kemp and Ethier) were out performing Garciaparra and Gonzalez, but that wasn't going to make sitting them any easier.

2007-09-21 05:27:18
367.   D4P
Dodger Playoff Probability:

0.21%

"So you're saying there's a chance..."

2007-09-21 05:43:24
368.   D4P
Kent must be jealous of Bonds and his nucleus of experienced players.
2007-09-21 06:33:56
369.   Felton
There is a possibility (remote, I know) that all three NL divisions and the wild card could be a tie:

NY, Phil - 90-72
Chi, Mil - 83-78
Ariz, SD - 90-72

The tiebreaker scenario does not seem to cover this. The Cubs and Brewers would play Monday, and I guess Phil would win the NL East by 12-6 over NY and Ariz wins NL West 10-8 over SD. Phil vs SD Monday for Wild Card. Ariz #1 seed by 5-1 over Phil. Is this correct?

Can Jeff Kent turn down the $9 million for next year?

2007-09-21 06:50:54
370.   goofus
I'm sure he doesn't want to turn it down but he might threaten to unless management makes some promises to him. I'd hope management tells him if he comes back next year he'll see even more kids than this year. They could offer to trade him which is the make-everybody-happy solution.
2007-09-21 07:08:03
371.   Bob Timmermann
369
All three divisions would have to have one game playoffs. The Central loser would go home.

The losers of the East and West games would have another one game playoff to determine the wild card.

2007-09-21 07:10:33
372.   Bob Timmermann
Nate Silver thinks Eric Gagne is merely unlucky:

http://tinyurl.com/24kr8y

2007-09-21 07:12:00
373.   Sushirabbit
Wow, miss a night and DT turns into ItD! I could almost hear each post getting tearful, perplexed, angry and bitter by turns.

I need a new "sleeps with the fishes" update, maybe Kent can post it up in the locker room. :-)

2007-09-21 07:13:25
374.   goofus
287 Harry Morgan starred with Henry Fonda in 'The Oxbow Incident' which was made in 1939 I think, and he doesn't look young then. He probably looked old when he was born.
2007-09-21 07:29:31
375.   Disabled List
363 Vintage Plaschke today: rambling and incoherent, tries too hard to make it sound profound when in reality it's pointless.

Actually, it's weak even by his standards.

2007-09-21 07:41:02
376.   caseybarker
I'm waiting for the "LuGo sleeps with the fishes". Kent and Nomar, too.
2007-09-21 07:51:02
377.   Humma Kavula
+1 voice to the chorus of confusion over Plaschke's article.

I loved ripping into the guy when he was merely spectacularly wrong and without talent. Who can forget when he called the Dodgers' best hitter "the scroll wheel on DePodesta's baseball iPod?" I mean, that's brilliant, and by brilliant, I mean inane.

But today, he's just rambling on and on and never gets anywhere. It's like a fifth-grader's essay; it's no fun to make fun of that. I wonder if his column today is a rule 11 violation.

2007-09-21 07:57:09
378.   Andrew Shimmin
I wonder if his column today is a rule 11 violation.

Maybe. My guess is he had a crayon or six up his nose.

2007-09-21 08:01:44
379.   Bumsrap
Kent gave Loney a look of anger and disgust when Loney didn't catch the foul popup and Kent is no doubt still smarting over Loney not going to third that resulted in him getting picked off first. Loney can appear to be laid back but that doesn't mean he isn't sharply focused. But when at a point of being eliminated from the playoffs, Kent probably allows himself to be rubbed by Loney's coolness.

Abreu may not be listening to the vets and then hacks at bad pitches without a thought to maybe moving a runner along or even walking to get on base.

Gonzo's desire to add to his doubles stat and get 3000 hits clearly puts himself and not the team first. I didn't like seeing LaRoche in the lineup either but who else was there to play third that would do any better.

Maybe if Kent had something profound to say worth listening to he might have been in more than one World Series by now.

2007-09-21 08:32:46
380.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

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