Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
Jon's other site:
Screen Jam
TV and more ...
1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with
Okay, I've read Bill Plaschke's Times column on the Jeff Kent quotes three times. And as put off as I was by the way it began, it is worth some scrutiny.
It starts off by saying:
This youth movement has officially gotten old.
I thought it would work, I really did, but I admit today that I am wrong.
Right away, you think you know what the column is going to argue. But then, on the third read, I finally focused on a paragraph I was glossing over.
A youth movement works only when the veterans are flexible enough to move. The Dodgers veterans, it turns out, were not.
To me, despite everything else in the column, this means Plaschke is not blaming the youth movement itself. If you read the whole column, he blames - it's hard to say really. Everybody? He seems to be reassert that the team's direction was correct, but within that framework, everyone could have handled things better. And that's a reasonable hypothesis.
Plaschke goes on to assign partial responsibility for this clubhouse combustion to manager Grady Little, a man who earlier this month he said was handling the transition superbly. Now, Plaschke isn't so sure, but goes on to absolve Little by saying he had an impossible task keeping everyone happy.
Was it impossible? I want to think not, but I don't know. In any case, I still think having the right players on the field at the right times is more important than keeping them happy in the clubhouse. Not that the latter isn't important at all, it's just less important.
Anyway, the point Plaschke seems to be going after is subtle - almost too subtle. Here's how the column ends:
Kent's comments show Little has lost a part of the clubhouse he must win back before that can work.
As for Kent, he will make noises about retiring, especially since the Dodgers will reduce his playing time next year while playing Tony Abreu. But I've got 9 million reasons he will return, his option having vested on Thursday, not coincidentally the same day he publicly complained.
In case he is wondering if the Dodgers bosses were listening, I've got three words for him.
They'd better be.
What exactly is the message Plaschke wants Dodger leadership to get, and how does he want them to react in tangible terms? Am I being dim? I've read the column four times now, and I still don't really know. Is it, "Do the youth movement, but do it right?" If so, I agree with Plaschke - with the qualifier that I still am not completely sure everyone agrees on what "doing it right" means.
Update: The copy editors of the Times didn't quite get the subtlety, either. Their print headline for the column's jump: The youth movement is a flop.
"When... there was nobody who could play third base, it became clear the Dodgers would have to trade a prospect to contend for a championship.
"At that point, at the end of July, Ned Colletti made the decision that old-fashioned Dodgers general managers used to make.
He decided to keep the kids even if it meant losing the championship. He committed to developing a team capable not only of sudden impact, but staying power."
Except that he didn't do that. He panic-traded the team's best power hitter and third baseman -- who is young and capable of both sudden impact and staying power -- for a dadgummed middle reliever.
The rest of it is similarly ridiculous and meandering, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
If this is what he means (because it really is hard to tell), I'm all for it. Mostly, I don't care, because I don't listen to Plaschke and I hope the Dodger front office doesn't either. Back to my self-imposed Plaschke ban.
Anyway, Plaschke's continual presence in the Times makes me sad, given all the fine writers who came before him there.
Plaschke wants the excitement a youth movement brings, but he could do without those pesky growing pains.
Whatever, pal. Go have your cake. Just don't eat it where I can see you.
Like Jeff Kent, Plaschke sees all this and isn't sure who to blame, so he rambles incoherently and gives everyone the wrong impression.
Has somebody sent this to the guys at FJM yet? They should be excited at the comedic gold mine that is this column.
They'd better be.
Also, a few comments from Kent and an article by Plaschke is the tip of the iceberg. When the season is over there will be articles from every corner of baseball media about how the Dodgers were the bigggest failure of 2007. We are going to finsh fourth in the division after being picked to go to the WS by many. Baseball Tonight, Jeff Passan, SI. These guys are going to have a field day. Its an easy story and people are going to jump on it. Ned and Grady will survive but the kitchen hasn't even begun to get hot.
"Has somebody sent this to the guys at FJM yet? They should be excited at the comedic gold mine that is this column.
They'd better be."
Brilliant!
http://www.presstelegram.com/sports/ci_6954613
Kevin Everett may be walking again, and sooner than anyone would have predicted.
I go back to Opening Day. Schmidt was on the mound, Kemp was in right field. I had just seen Schmidt match Maddux in that great game the previous August that was decided by Martin's walk-off homer, and expected to see more of the same, just in a different uniform.
Instead, Schmidt was ineffective and Kemp smashed his shoulder against the new out-of-town scoreboard/advertising vehicle. There's your alibi right there. Add Wolf, Furcal, Kuo, Tsao, Brazoban and the indecision about 3B, plus Pierre's early season "slump," and you've got all the excuses you'd need.
However, the writers who picked LA to finish first and go to the World Series were mostly from national media anyway. They were charmed by Nomar's resurgence in 2006 and didn't notice that it ended at mid-season. Resigning him was clearly Colletti's worst decision -- worse than Pierre, even -- because Nomar had nothing, and Loney was rotting away in LV.
The genuine surprise in the NL West is Arizona. San Diego in retrospect is the clear class of this division, and it would've been a bigger surprise if they'd tanked (which they still might.)
Maybe Cleveland will get rid of the Josh Barfield experiment and would be willing to take Kent. Do they have anything shiny we could get in return?
Martin 832
Loney 844
Kent 963
Furcal 677
Garciaparra 808
Gonzalez 681
Ethier 854
Pierre 735
Kemp 898
Saenz 490
Martinez 515
Lieberthal 566
Penny 3.65
Lowe 5.51
Billingsley 2.85
Hendrickson 7.82
Beimel 3.95
Hernandez 5.40
Broxton 3.18
Saito 1.52
Seanez 4.83
The Indians are playing Asdrubal Cabrera at second base now. Barfield is just a pinch runner/defensive replacement now.
1. goes out there next year and hits .280 with 20 homeruns, and catches everything hit to him within a 3-foot radius.
2. doesn't become Ned's assistant GM this offseason.
As for Plaschke, it seems there's a solid 10% of legitimate insight in that column. Nice work, Bill - now take the rest of the offseason off! Or switch to Kobe-related observations.
Loney: 1.153
Kemp: .978
Gonzo: .867
Pierre: .818 (?????)
Kent: .817
Nomar: .810
Ethier: .798
Martin: .762 (tired?)
LaRoche: .715
RMart: .583
Abreu: .494
Furcal: .489
What exactly that they're upset about? Probably a false sense of entitlement mixed with the fact that there is no camaraderie (creating an "us against them" feeling). And the young players these days don't listen to the vets like the vets did when they were young players. And the young players don't have the work ethic that the vets (or coaches) did when they were young players.
Plaschke - as always - adds nothing to the conversation. This guy changes his opinion with the breeze. He is a caricature of himself. No opinion seeking sports fan gives him or Simers a serious look.
As to the fire Grady Little talk that's starting to percolate, I'm indifferent. If he and Colletti go together, I'm all for it. But for those that are so gung ho to fire Little, please remember that our last manager used a line up that often featured Jason Phillips at first base. Most of these guys are terrible. God love Scioscia, but if he still had Darin Erstad and Adam Kennedy they'd be playing everyday.
Little has a genuine problem with more talented youngsters than veterans. His situation is unenviable. He is saddled with Juan Pierre in the first year of a five-year deal, and Garciaparra in the first year of a two-year deal. Luis Gonzalez was signed with the assurance of a starting job. The push-pull of management, fans, players and media is enough to strangle anyone.
I agree with dzzrtRatt's comment in 300 from the last thread. I think Kent chose a poor time to vent, when it couldn't possibly help the situation. I do wish this had happened earlier in the season to get it out in the open and to force the management to be up front with everyone. If anything, I see this as an exposure of the lineup management gave and the constant juggling made by Little. I think Grady and Ned are the true targets of Kent's comments.
But then I read Jon's post and felt much better. It wasn't me. It was Plaschke.
This article makes no sense at all. It was really four articles condensed into one article.
The best that I can interpret at the end of the article is that because there is a $9Million contract vested for Kent next year, he will certainly not walk away from that kind of money. So.......
The Dodger Brass must deal with a returning Kent and the youth movement (one year removed)for the 2008 season. That is why he concludes that the Dodgers better be listening or they will have the same type of issues lingering on.
Does that mean that Plasche (and Kent for that matter) feels that only a new manager can keep both Kent/Garciaparra (under contract) and the kids on the same page?? I don't know.
What do you think?
I've said it before: when it comes to touchy-feely, human-interest stories, Plaschke is the best. When it comes to giving a take, he's awful.
Are you stating this as fact or saying it's probably what's put the bug in K(v)ent's and Luis's and Lowe's collective saggy veteran butt?
I wonder what he thinks now, and what he's going to do.
Now might be a good time for someone (DT?) to educate McCourt on the slow but interesting course of Dodger history from the 1968 draft to the 1981 World Championship. Youth movements don't translate into instant success. But when fans feel like it's "their" team -- rather than a shifting case of veterans who made their reputations elsewhere -- they'll be a lot more patient.
Jon, this is an absolutely brilliant line. I wish I had thought of it.
I kind of like the idea that Plaschke is so confused that he couldn't just quite figure out what to say. I have an image of him spluttering while at the keyboard -- "Veterans have experience ... but the kids are the ones playing well ... but the vets came to the park early ... but Kemp is really exciting ... but Gonzo and Nomar are really nice to me ... aaaagh!" Then his head explodes, the resulting smoke forms the words "Depo sucks!", and then it wafts away and we are left with a new day for the LA Times sports section.
That's how older colleagues felt about me when I was an ingenue/boy wonder, and that's how I feel about a lot of the talented but empty-headed kids I've had to train. Not to mention me vs. my Dad and now me vs. my son.
Basically, I think Kent's upset that he didn't get his ring kissed subserviently enough, and now that the season's over and his option's vested he's taking the opportunity to rant nonsensically.
What's Plashke's excuse?
Reading that column, and getting massively crapped on by a crow/blackbird... my Friday's off to a great start.
Or is that Yeats?
I'm just glad I'm not the only one confused by Plaschke's latest. My concern is that he seems to be the barometer of public opinion for McCourt. And you can read this column as a call to dump the kids and go with PVL.
By reptuation, true or not, Eddie waited for younger players to approach him. Kent seems to be saying the same thing (or, that he went to the young players but was ignored), although his past reputation is that he likes to be left alone with his thoughts or magazines, that he's not someone who likes to linger before or after a game.
What's your take?
A-rod a perfect fit for the Dodgers
http://tinyurl.com/2yhcjb
Then again, what do I know.
You didn't know who Abe Vigoda was, but you knew about Barry McGuire?
Both men hate baseball.
Jeff approached spring camp as a learning experience. He confidently sidled up to veterans stars like Joe Carter, Dave Winfield and Jack Morris and picked their brains. They thought Jeff was a riot. None could remember a rookie looking so at home in a major league uniform, or acting so much like a part of a team he had yet to make! But whenever manager Cito Gaston put him in games, he got the job done.
but then of course there's this:
Despite his hard-nosed play, Jeff was not a favorite of Green's. The manager chided Jeff about his propensity for striking out, and complained about his fielding, which produced a league-high 18 errors in '93. At one point, during a series against the Cubs, Green benched him for three games. Jeff was so furious that it took a visit from his wife, Dana, to calm him down. During the All-Star break the couple went house-hunting in Austin, Texas, and later purchased a home there.
in '93 Kent was 25 and was in his 2nd year.
http://tinyurl.com/74w2x
And Kent was the guy saying that these players are not his friends, so I wonder if this is just a different type of respect for the game. Did Kent want the young guys to come running over to his locker looking for advice? Or was he really offering it to deaf ears? Kent does not strike me as the type you could go and shoot the breeze with or ask about your game.
(This is so fun.)
I would be perfectly happy with that. It might be best for Kent and the team.
I would find it hard to believe this about most of them. Especially Martin. But what if it was true? What can Colletti/Little do about it?
if we are totally frustrated by a lineup that changes daily with no rhyme or reason, how should the players feel?
If that was true about some of them, than I hope this poorly timed vent by Kent helps right the ship on work ethic. I would love to have players with the personalities of Kemp, Ethier, and Loney that have the same work ethic as Kent. Can't you have a great work ethic and still be a nice guy?
And this, I think, is the main source of the problem.
and this leaves Kent where??
I thought he worded it pretty well when he said that whatever direction the team decides to go in, they will have to do a good job communicating that to their players.
And with everything that Branch Rickey added and the observations that Tony Jackson put in his piece, I still think while you can think what you want about Jeff Kent, I think blame can placed on a lot of people including some of those kids that everyone wants to see play.
I know that when I started doing what I do, sure I may have wondered why people who were there before me might have dones things and even thought I could do things better but I certainly respected what they did because back when I started, those were the pioneers so to speak in my particular profession.
And I have always tried to help others as I felt those before helped me.
So I can empathize when you don't think those who come after you are not interested in what you might have to say.
I don't think they are telling how to hit certain pitcher or things like that but just how to be a major leaguer and what that means, that what I sense.
But the kids worked out - and then there were 10 starters for 8 positions, and musical lineups began. It's a tough situation to manage in. Cycling people in and out was the best way to deal with a bad situation, in my opinion. And look at comment 30 - it's not as if Gonzo was playing terribly enough to warrant being benched.
Didn't he espouse the youth movement last week?
And now he seems to favor the vets...
Both are right, and both are wrong...in this as with all things, it starts at the top...and no, I don't mean McCourt...owners hire GM and Managers who are supposed to know baseball...if there is a problem, and it appears there is, it rests at Coletti & Little's doorstep
Fair enough. Blame for what?
Maybe understanding that not everyone needs to approach the game the way he does. Kent seems to have a great work ethic and respect for the game, but he doesn't seem like he is willing to be buddy buddy with the other members of the team. Can you imagine Kent running over to Furcal and doing the jump/bump thing Loney, Ethier and Kemp do?
Do we expect to see a response from the Dodgers today?
In many circles, in the old school, that jump thing is a form of showing up the other team, something athletes in all sports are supposed to learn not to do.
Boy Andrew, leave it to you to get to root of something that we have been commenting on for almost a whole day.
I might die laughing.
If Ned has to spend money on a veteran, he might as well bring in a nice, outgoing veteran (i.e. A-Rod with a personality transplant).
I thought I saw that there would be no response on Thursday, but that sort of implied there might be some sort of response. I wonder what bp will be like today
I wonder about Kent's motivation. If his aim is to force management to go in one direction or the other -- either youth or veterans -- then he's fighting a losing battle, because everyone knows what the choice would be. Even someone as dim as Colletti has steadfastly avoided busting up the nucleus of young players.
What I suspect is this: Kent cares about baseball more than he likes to let on. He's not stupid, either; he sees what happens on the field. He realizes that these kids he lashed out at represent the only chance he has left to ever win a World Series. Next year, the kids can and perhaps will carry Kent to that World Series. I think his comments were specifically meant, in typical brusque Kent fashion, to encourage some of the young guys to change their approach entering next season. Whether their approach needs changing is very debatable, but I think Kent is coming from a genuine place. I think he really thinks the only way to win is to approach the game the same way he does.
Now, about the young guys -- having followed most of them for many years, having interviewed many of them, having spent a little bit of time in the clubhouse --- I have to say I have no idea where Kent's coming from on this. These guys don't act like know-it-alls; they seem to be properly humble and dedicated to their profession. In the clubhouse they're deferential and seen-and-not-heard most of the time. And from everything I've seen and heard, all of them except perhaps LaRoche carry themselves with a demeanor that's respectful of the veterans.
In the outfield, Pierre plays everyday, and Ethier was a starter at the beginning of the season. By process of elimination, I think Kent is talking about LuGo, as he is the only healthy veteran who has been denied playing time over the second half of the season. And I think that LuGo is the source of much of the dissension on the team. The guy clearly thinks he is still the player he was five years ago, as evidenced by comments that he wants to play two, three more seasons. To be honest, I think that Grady has managed the outfield situation well. Ethier and Kemp have played the majority of the time, and LuGo has produced well over the pat six weeks playing part-time, which is as much as he can be expected to do at age 40.
I see. I misread the article. I saw it as they would have no response by the end of yesterday.
My theme for the past few weeks has been Grady Little's mismanagement of the whole situation. Not to underestimate it was a difficult situation, but Grady did not rise to the challenge. It's up to the manager, not the PVLs, to instill a work ethic and enforce rules. It's also up to the manager and the GM to handle disgruntled veterans who don't like losing playing time. Two months ago, Little needed to establish a set lineup, or a set platoon and stick with it. Instead, it looked like he was always playing politics with the lineup, using the canoe theory pioneered by Jerry Brown: Paddle a little to the left and a little to the right. Nomar tonight, LaRoche tomorrow. And instead of a happy clubhouse, which was his obvious objective, he has a miserable clubhouse.
This is the kind of scenario that often leads to a manager getting fired. While the instability of yet another change bothers me, I think Grady's all wrong for this team and should be dismissed.
Mike Scioscia has handled far more turmoil than this, and look where the Angels are. It doesn't have to be this bad.
http://www.laobserved.com/sports/2007/09/kent_complains.php
"Meanwhile, across the Colorado River, the Arizona Diamondbacks have led the NL West for weeks, boasting a team that is much younger and less experienced than the Dodgers. In the middle of a pennant race, the Diamondbacks are regularly starting "kids" such as Justin Upton, Stephen Drew, Conor Jackson, Chris Young, Chris Snyder, Mark Reynolds, Carlos Quentin, and Micah Owings. While the D'Backs do have a relatively experienced pitching staff, the only real veteran in their offensive lineup right now is Eric Byrnes as Arizona has dealt with its own spate of injuries to Orlando Hudson, Chad Tracy, and Randy Johnson. They also made no major moves at the trade deadline. So while some blame the Dodgers struggles on youth and inexperience, the Diamondbacks are winning with it. "
There were almost just as many young players transitioned in last year as there was this year, yet these things weren't an issue. Sometimes, teams just lose regardless of the temperament of their manager.
And Eric Byrnes.
Seriously, Byrnes and Holliday made such a big difference on their respective teams this year.
Ethier and Kemp didn't have anyone looking over their shoulders. Same for Russell Martin.
Grady booted Tomko out of the rotation at the end of June and he never got back.
This year was different because it wasn't injuries that forced the issue and the level of veteraness, namely Gonzalez and to some extent Garciaparra is a lot different than Jose Cruz and Sandy Alomar.
So circumstances this year were different but it wasn't as if this could not have been foreseen either.
If there the Red Sox or Angels were in the division, you could point out the differences and the balance but even with all the hiccups, two weeks ago we were right there and I think that is what makes this tough right now.
And we're supposed to spend 3 days trying to decipher the cryptic nonsense of this motorhead?
I also don't remember so many weird lineups last season. His pitching changes have been peculiar, too. He seems to have different standards for different players. If LuGo is hitting well, fine, play him till he cools down. But why give so many starts to Ramon Martinez when you had LaRoche, Abreu and Betemit available? Why bat what few power hitters we have 8th and bat players like Martinez and Pierre so high in the lineup? Why not insist on putting Furcal on the DL?
Yes, "sometimes teams just lose," and who knows if a more consistent approach would've made a difference. But combine the questionable decisions with disappointing results--and note that Colletti's "chemistry" goal was also apparently not reached--and you have to wonder, what's the case for keeping Grady around?
Apparently Plaschke missed the part where Atlanta acquired Teixeira then ran in place for 6 weeks. If Plaschke had some knowledge of an even better deal Ned passed up he should enlighten us.
Then the real laugher. He cites discontent among Kent, Gonzo, Nomar "even though most of the kids were outplaying them." So the answer was to trade prospects for more vets? He could have just written the same column under the header "veteran movement a flop."
I know...I know!!!
he is fun at the company chrismas party??
I think someone really needs to confront Ned about this.
And sadly, for a good part of August, Martinez led the team in RBI.
I do agree that we're seeing more weird allegiances to players this year and last.
I just have trouble getting on the "Dodgers need for fire" bandwagon since whenever we do get someone with said fire (Bradley, Penny) he ends up getting villianized by the media.
142 Yeah, but they'd be even worse of without Teixiera who has hit .322/.404/.611 for them, and, more importantly, will be there next year. The impact of trading deadline acquisitions is pretty overstated and even in the best case scenario that Atlanta has, he'll mean only a couple extra wins. I still like the deal, simply because the Braves realized that 2007/2008 was their last real shot at a championship for a while, and they went all out to achieve it. I have no problem mortgaging the future when there isn't one. Sure, they could have been good, but it seems like an 87 wins sort of good.
what i'm wondering is will this team get younger or older in the offseason?
Although it does speak volumes when I'm relieved by a trade/deal/signing not because of the value of the player, but because of the disaster that could have been.
http://www.kfwb.com/pages/7789.php
But in comparison, how many really exciting signings did DePo make? Kent was the only one that I got really excited about. Evans never made one, Malone certainly made splashy ones but he paid way too much for them. Exciting free agent signings seem to be few and far between.
Who signed Furcal? Either way I thought that was a good move, regardless of his bum ankle playing this season.
The only thing I can come up with is an old school feeling that stats don't matter nearly as much as some would like to believe. Ultimately, it comes down to winning games and some teams find a way to win (Arizona), while other teams don't.
Also, you're right, Furcal was a great signing by Ned.
Furcal apparently wants to extend his contract. I wonder how that will play out.
I agree. I'd also like to see some kind of analysis that examines whether or not and to what extent free agent signings contribute to team success.
Which was to imply that Arizona is playing well, not that the NL stinks.
Just looking at 2006 winter signings.
Boston - Dice-K, Drew, Lugo
LA Angels - Gary Mathews Jr.
Arizona - Doug Davis (or was he a trade)
San Diego - Greg Maddux
New York Mets - Moises Alou
Chicago - Alfonso Soriano, Jason Marquis, Ted Lilly (re-signed Ramirez and reupped Zambrano)
Those are the few I can think of on teams currently in the playoffs. While they and the other teams in the playoff hunt have players that they signed in previous years, I only focused on this past off-season.
Loney's OPS since August 1 is .872.
The Padres have 2 significant free agents, Greg Maddux and Marcus Giles. The Indians free agents include Paul Byrd, David Dellucci, Jason Michaels, Trot Nixon, Joe Borowski, and Roberto Hernandez.
Which was to imply that Tayshera is playing well, not that Loney stinks.
I was gonna say Jon, I was hearing T.J Simers earlier today & BELIEVE me, him & Plashke don't like the youth movement (plashke seems like a johnny come lately with his retraction) I don't know I don't trust neither of them anymore, OLD HOMERS!
Thanks for the link. That is worth listening to. Kent just sounds frustrated at possibly the lack of frustration by some of the rookies about the season slipping away. That is what it seems like to me.
The transaction on MLB.com reads:
11/25/06 Acquired LHP Doug Davis, LHP Dana Eveland and OF David Krynzel from Milwaukee for RHP Greg Aquino, C Johnny Estrada and RHP Claudio Vargas.
However, he can't seem to handle that despite this, Dodger fans don't react by not showing up at the ballpark. So while he berates the team, he also belittles those who show up.
The Indians signed 4 relievers to shore up their pen in the offseason. Roberto was obviously released after 26 innings of 6+ ERA, Borowski is still going strong as closer, despite an ERA of over 5, Fultz has been decent for the innings he's pitched (only 33), and Keith Foulke retired before pitching. Hopefully Ned realizes the Indians' mistake.
The veteran was oblivious to the fact he himself was not a good SS anymore and that the kid at age 22 was already better then he'd been at the peak of his career.
If Nomar has any memory at all, he'll know what it feels like to have veterans bagging on the kids over playing time.
And that little shortstop, whom nobody loved, grew up to be ... John Valentin.
They named a day in Feb after him.
I actually like the quotes from Jeff Kent in Diamond Leung's latest posting, that were said during spring training.
Logan is safe!
BOB RYAN
FORT MYERS, Fla. -- John Valentin knows the public relations battle is over already, and that he has lost.
"Am I concerned that people are going to think I'm selfish?" he inquires. "Well, sure."
The way John Q. Public sees it, John Valentin should just shut up and play ball. Aren't they paying him, what, almost $4 million? So what difference does it make whether he's in the lineup at shortstop, second base, or even long relief? If Nomar Garciaparra turns out to be a better defensive shortstop, then Valentin should be a mensch and move to, to . . . That's it. Where?
Tim Naehring just got his well-deserved new contract. He's the third baseman. Wil Cordero has been anointed the second baseman, and if he falters, there's spunky Jeff Frye, who really is a second baseman. And does anyone have any idea whether Valentin could make the tricky move from short to second after spending his entire baseball life on the left side of the diamond?
No one seems to care how Valentin thinks or feels, least of all general manager Dan Duquette, whose apparent belief is that as long as you are able to throw money at a player, all personnel problems are solved.
And the fans just happen to be in an unforgiving mood these days. They see Valentin as just one more in a seemingly endless line of whiny, ungrateful, overpaid, and just-plain-spoiled athletes.
"I think if I could sit down with every fan individually, I'd get them to come away sympathetic to my position," Valentin sighs. "But we know that just isn't possible."
Valentin's position is this: He believes his best position is shortstop. He thinks he's a decent shortstop, and he knows he can hit. He thinks he could play third, but with Naehring over there, that's a moot point. He may or may not be able to play second. Given a choice, he would rather play shortstop somewhere else than be stuck in what he refers to as "foreign territory" at another position. He'll play second if they ask, but he'd like to do it under circumstances that would help him to succeed. Is that too much to ask?
Anyway, I look forward to 2021, when Loney will be losing his job to some young guy and Kemp will be complaining how all the young players don't have work ethics anymore.
I suggest cooking the noodles before eating them.
.302/.360/.512
It sounds different when you hear things live, I'm sure Kent will be back next year, we've got a great team that is only gonna get better, you obviously sense the "time is running out for me" in his voice which is understandable, we're gonna be a great team next year (specially if we get a POWER BAT) like I've said before, you can diffidently understand his frustration.
---------------------
NC: [Bill Mueller] has won a batting championship, he's been a starting player on World Series champion. The guy's got a heart of gold and is a salt of the earth human being. (I want) people like that.
AK: Those are the type of players you want?
NC: I'd take them every day.
BK: Derek Lowe mentioned after last night's game (a 7-2 win over Philadelphia on June 1) that even the younger guys- Martin, Ethier, Broxton, guys like that- those guys are coming up with that attitude as well. Is that something you knew about the character of the farm system coming in?
NC: Well, Either we got (in the Milton Bradley deal), and I give a lot of credit- there's a few things I can say about that. First, the kids and the veterans have meshed very well. There has been a somewhat uncommon two-way respect, because many times when you try to add kids to a group of veterans it becomes territorial- "Somebody trying to take my job," and "They're gonna have to earn their way," and on and on. And that's probably more common than it's uncommon. Some things were accomplished this spring. Billy Mueller took out sixteen guys one night that were half veterans and half young players. Eric Gagne took out eight, nine, ten pitchers, some veterans, some brand new. Alomar and Pat Borders, who just retired, hung with Navarro and Martin all spring.
So the idea from the beginning was to build community and build a togetherness to overcome whatever was going to be in our way. So the kids have done it and the veterans have respected them, but they've also been very respectful of the veterans, and they've come to play. Most of the time a kid will come up here and he'll be in awe of the situation. For a couple days, adrenaline will take over, and then pretty soon thereafter reality catches up and they go, "Oh my goodness." And then the next thing you know they're sitting back at AAA. These kids haven't done it. Russell Martin might be one of the most polished kids I've ever seen come to the big leagues and expect to do well from the get go. And Ethier is right with him. Matt Kemp had a terrible first day in Washington. Was in Huntsville, Alabama for lunch on Saturday and was in Washington, D.C. for a game lunchtime on Sunday. Struck out three times and misplayed a ball in center field. I told Grady, "In the next 24 hours we're going to learn a lot about Matt Kemp." The next day in Atlanta, Grady started him again on Memorial Day, he went on and had a great game and he's been playing well ever since. That's special.
I give credit to the area scouts who I start with the parents of the kid. Because if anything in the chain gets broken I said this the other day to somebody if anything in the chain gets broken, it doesn't work. But you start with the parents and the player. Then you go to the coaches that the kid had as an amateur. And then you go to the area scout. We've got a bunch of them up here right now getting ready for the draft. People like that deserve a ton of credit because they're out in the bushes looking everywhere they can to find the next Bill Mueller, the next Nomar Garciaparra, the next Jeff Kent, the next Eric Gagne. They're tremendously overlooked except by people who really understand the game. Then the scouting director who pulls the trigger and makes a decision to take a kid. Then your player development people. Your rookie ball coach. If it's a pitcher, the pitching coach. All of these things, all the way up. The player development guy. (Dodgers Director of Player Development) Terry Collins has done a great job. A lot of these guys reflect Terry Collins.
Every step of the way A ball, AA, AAA, getting them here. If something gets broken, if the chain gets broken, they don't make it. And once they get here- I told this to two of them already, the two we're talking about mainly, Martin and Ethier. I said, "You know what, it would have been a shame if players don't make it to the big leagues. But what's a bigger shame to me are those who make it and don't get any better. Who think, "I made it. I'm here. Game's over. I can just sit here and play the game." No. You've got to get better. You've got to keep working to get better. And they've got that drive. They've got a special drive about them. And I give, from mom and dad and the kid himself all the way up the food chain, credit for it. Because if one of them gets severed in the middle? It won't work.
BK: And you knew this infrastructure was there in terms of the minor league system?
NC: I knew they had some talented players coming. They had great prospects. But prospects are still prospects. It's tough to develop them, and they still have to figure it out, and they still have to get acclimated. Playing up here is not that easy. It's a day to day test and the best players are the ones who have adjusted throughout their careers. This is a game of adjustment every day. Because if you've got smart pitching out there- and if you're in the big leagues (they're) pretty good- if you're a young hitter and if they're getting you out one way, you'd better figure out a way to stop it. Which Matt Kemp did the other day. Stopped it on a dime, almost. That takes special talent, a special insight, and a mindset and a dedication to being the best you can be.
I think that interview is when I stopped being as worried about Ned as I had been. Thanks for reposting.
I was taken back by your comment, so I had to read it completely my self, it is a great interview & you get a peak at how he works/philosophy.
Definitely an eye opener! Thanks for re-posting that. That gives me some hope :)
Smoothie time!
When DT was young, the youngsters, like King of the Hobos, knew their place.
They even participated in our hazing rituals which required all new posters to dress up like women for a game.
Granted for people like MollyKnight or kadycee, this was not a hardship.
The Dodgers didnt win this year because they didnt have good enough players on the field. The veteran entitlement feeling that the old guys have isnt good either, and it obviously influenced Grady. Grady's part of that old boy network, that gets to places by whom you know and not what you know. Same with Colletti.
Its stupid for the media to pick up on this.
I'd rather see stories written about the roster,--the performers and non-performers---rather than the soap opera "feelings" of the players.
In the end, who really cares what Jeff Kent thinks? Who cares if he demands a trade?
Bottomline is you play him everyday whether he likes the guys on the team or not. If he doesnt like it, he can retire.
Juan Pierre career playoff line:
.301 .378 .411
http://tinyurl.com/3xl9ch
Lame. Now their colors are too close to the Royals.
.305 .361 .373
2007: .293 .330 .355
The sports editors and even reporters, know that there are lots of outlets for people to find out information and analysis about the team. The last barrier for the general public is hearing directly from those who participate, the players and the coaches.
So that is what they do, sure they will write a game story but how many people read the paper for that.
So when you get a story (or non-story) about how a veteran feels as the season is ending, you are going to write it up.
When the paper needs some spacefiller next month, by all means, start talking about the roster but don't expect too much space.
#1 Spot
LA: .271/.325/.362/.687
OPP: .287/.347/.411/.757
#2 Spot
LA: .286/.328/.348/.676
OPP: .279/.334/.429/.764
Furcal is gonna be plenty better in '08, Pierre is Pierre, we'll just talk smack about him for the remainder of his contract.
And where would that put us for next year, you would still have the same problems except you might get into the playoffs.
Unfortunately 4 of those games were in the last 2 weeks, the 5th was the San Diego loss without Saito and the 6th was the Sunday home loss against the Mets.
Now every team can point to games that they probably should have lost and won and vice versa.
But do wins and losses cover up what's been going on all year?
He said the Dodgers are a team that has the pieces to do something like that.
248 Maybe, maybe not. The question is also, if the Dodgers had made the playoffs would they have done anything (unlike last year)...? We have no way of knowing now, and they obviously have enough talent to scare teams had they made the playoffs, but I was kinda fearing another sneak into the playoffs then go 3 and out kind of series.
It reminds me of the Broncos for me in the late 80s/early 90s. Like a lot of fans, after two super bowl blow outs I had severe mixed feelings, even rooting against them making it to another super bowl. Sure enough they ignored us, made the SB and then got blown out again, before a dry spell for a few years. But then they added the missing piece, a great running back, and won 2 straight SB's. I'm rambling, but I think the Dodgers may just be missing one key piece that makes them a World Series contender, beyond just a playoff contender, but right now they're unfortunately not even the latter.
Maybe Matt Kata is giving Jim Tracy a Mike Edwards vibe.
How's your back?
You just wanted to bring up the Broncos winning the Super Bowl to throw it in my face.
And to brag about John Elway to Bob.
Nothing really key. He just agreed with Jon's SI article, and then said it was the veterans who let down the youngsters based on performance.
"You don't know why they don't get it, Jeff? Really? Well, maybe it's because they're kids. They don't care any more about your World Series aspirations or Gonzalez's hunt for 3,000 hits than teenagers care about their parents' hopes and dreams.
Anyway, I'm not sure the kids are the problem here. Nine Dodgers have more than 200 plate appearances. Kent, who's 39 (!) sports the third-best OPS among them. Matt Kemp (22) has the best OPS, James Loney (23) is second best and Russell Martin (24) is fourth best.
I suppose Kent might say the kids aren't doing the little things as well as they could, and should. Well, maybe. But it seems to me the Dodgers are where they are because the veterans haven't done the big things nearly well enough."
It is a very short article and is mostly just two big quotes.
#1 (mostly Furkle)
#2 (mostly PJ)
#5 (mostly LuGo)
Canuck can you send me your email address to
molokai at yahoo dot com.
I've got some prospect questions I'd like to ask you.
I'm trying to gain more go but it isn't working.
I tried to watch Twitch City last night, but apparently it is a VSC. So I have to get another DVD player.
I was just joking.
Just imagine being a Bills fan.
264 -- My e-mail address is rbostan@shaw.ca. Anybody who posts here can use that, if they want. Anyway, TC, I won't be able to answer your questions till this evening. I have to take care of some other stuff for the next few hours.
Thanks, prospect questions are never urgent.
I just tried on our other DVD player and it worked.
Odd.
leadoff batter juan pierre hits a nubber in front of the plate. tom glavine fields cleanly, but his throw sails high and pulls delgado off the bag. pierre reaches safely.
matt kemp follows with a line drive to right centerfield. beltran and green jog toward the ball as kemp puts his head down and rounds second base. a stumbling pierre is held up at third base. his helmet falls over his eyes as he scrambles to find the bag. kemp is now stampeding toward third; he crashes into pierre at full speed as shea stadium erupts in a stomach-turning gasp. both men are tagged out. a bloodied pierre refuses to leave the field, later citing a consecutive inning playoff streak he currently holds. glavine is so shaken he walks the next three batters before retiring luis gonzalez on a 3-0 check-swing grounder to first.
after the game [a 2-1 dodger loss], speaking in a hushed dodger dugout, grady little says, "i'm just glad that little guy's okay. we had a chance to put some runs on the board early in the game but we couldn't come through. hopefully tomorrow night loaiza gets us back on track."
Why is Shawn Green starting in right field for the Mets?
I think the question about whether or not Shawn Green will play today is: why do the Mets care?
Meanwhile, I find myself still rooting hard for the Dodgers to smack the DBacks this weekend, even if it's probably not likely.
It's gonna be interesting to see how the Dodgers "play" against Zona.
But what you're really asking, I gather, is why is Shawn Green starting today, rather than atoning? I have no idea.
Kansas City has claimed Wes Bankston off of waivers from Tampa Bay!
To confuse matters further, Green is sitting out tonight for Yom Kippur.
And then it spiraled downward from there.
Over/under is 5.
I thought we always blamed D4P.
Neither.
Pierre, CF
Abreu, SS
Loney, 1B
Kent, 2B
Gonzo, LF
Martin, C
Nomar, 3B
Ethier, RF
Loaiza, P
Sure, pick on the little guy.
1. I post after a NPUT;
2. I lead the league in typos and misspellings; and
3. I have been sworn to defend Shawn Green's honor.
First characterizing Shawn Green as a "bad baseball player" is unduly harsh. He has devolved into an average player at worst. His defense is acceptable. His batting average and on base are acceptable. He just has no power anymore (notwithstanding he hit two HRs this week). If you still look for him to hit the long ball he is below average but he has not been that player since his shoulder injury four years ago.
Second, I think he has probably been the Mets most productive hitter this month. Without him they would already be looking at the back of the Phillies.
Third, he has all but announced he is thinking of retiring so cut him some slack. Its not like he said the younger players don't listen to him.
Where in the world is Matt Kemp?
Anyways, here's Bonds' farewell letter:
www.barrybonds.com
If we weren't, would we be more likely or less likely to see Nomar?
Seems weird to sit LaRoche after he finally got his groove back yesterday. But maybe Grady was afraid Kent would beat him up.
Every even slightly hurt Dodger should be shut down now for the remainder of the season, including Nomar, Furcal, Broxton. We can always revive them if something weird happens and we're still in the race next weekend.
The MLB.com team websites are always optimistic.
When the Orioles were losing 30-3 to the Rangers, the Orioles site still had a headline up that said something like "Orioles in comeback mode against Texas."
Shawn Green WARP1 - 2.4
1988 Alfredo Griffin WARP1 - 2.0
So, he's slightly more valuable than a guy who hit .199/.259/.253 in half the plate appearances.
He's not veteranny enough anyway. We need proven guys in there who have experience hitting popups and GIDPs.
I should convert to Judaism to try to get out of the game.
I remember every moment, of those endless summer nights
(Oh, I remember...)
Maybe they think he could bring more fans to the games.
LuGo had a dream that the ghost of Rocky Calavito appeared on a flaming pie and told him he will lead our comeback into playoff contention, starting tonight.
I think my head would explode.
Gonzo has the most experience in this regard, so that's probably why he's playing.
Also so he can reach his personal statistical goals.
I'm confused. LuGo was the one who said that young players are too focused on individual stats, while old players care about winning.
Raise your hand if you actually care.
NPUT explained. Bob pulled it on me yesterday.
I am feeling much better today. My virus seems to be gone.
And my crushing, soul-sapping depression.
I'd also love to see how the bleacher boors would handle it. The cognitive dissonance on whether to boo Bonds in Blue might cause the level of citizenship at the ballpark to rise by default.
This might be one that Colletti gets right for all the wrong reasons.
Nah - ain't gonna happen.
Did he personally apologize to me too?
I still don't think it's worth it.
Was the crankiness accompanied by a slight fever and a tinge of ague?
Yes, now I can tell people that Walker personally apologized to me.
He should totally throw the offense under a bus. Two buses in fact.
Well, you know those Danes.
If you liked Eric Enders, you would have bought a new copy and given him royalties.
But I hope you like the book. If not, then it was some other Eric Enders who wrote it.
I fixed your typo...
There is no player who I'd like to see in Dodger blue more than Rodriguez. He is the greatest player of this generation.
Bonds needs to go to the AL and be a DH. The aforementioned guesses of Baltimore and Oakland make the most sense to me so far.
Jon's post was a MacGuffin, btw.
I'm on board.
This discussion is for the birds.
The Mariners could be another team that may try to go after Bonds.
The DBacks bandwagon has plenty of room.
I just realized fan aprrecaiton day could be his last trip to DS.
The wine bottle in Notorious, the microfilm in a lot of those suspense films, the new post up top on this blog, that sort of thing.
Give Barry a Hobie Cat!
And not to be morbid or stir up the pixies (three ptooeys), but that would be a great headstone for any famous, prolific blogger.
Will the Angels' drive to the top of the baseball world be stalled by Mother Nature?
Since the forecast is for scattered thunderstorms, I would think they would stay up all night to play the Angels game.
If Colletti were to sign Bonds he could well say his job is done here and go back to the Giants.
"I can't catch, Ned. I can't even bend over to pick up my jock strap."
"We're paying you $18 million. You'll catch, Barry, and you'll like it. And for every passed ball, Jeff Kent gets to pull another hair out of your back. Ah-ha-ha-ha!"
Of course there are so few people at the game that any sound is going to be loud.
that was a good one... LOL.
405 A-Rod 7 years, $231 mil? I'd probably do that.
But call me Alowishus Devadander Abercrombie.
That's long for Mud.
So I've been told.
It's pretty much a way to get a Furcal or Schmidt type contract without the extra money.
Matt Kemp had been getting two hits in each of his starts. In his last one he only went 1 for 5. To Grady that's a slump. He hasn't played since (and who knows when he'll ever play again).
Kent plays on most days and Nomar plays when he is deemed healthy enough to play.
The kids playing in front of the veterans scenario is mostly a red herring.
I think Barry would love to get to 3,000 hits and 2,000 RBI before he calls it quits. He is pretty close to both.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=536
His firing is a foregone conclusion, right?
Apparently they are close to signing Cleveland's Asst. GM.
Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.